Log for #openttd on 31st March 2012:
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04:59:05  <Pikka> probably
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05:26:53  <andythenorth> mornings
05:27:02  <Pikka> hello andythenorth
05:27:14  <andythenorth> seigneur bird
05:27:28  <andythenorth> is it pruple there?
05:27:39  <Pikka> partially
05:27:59  <Pikka> I've knocked av8ports down to 10 D:
05:28:10  <andythenorth> less is more
05:28:14  <Pikka> yes
05:28:18  <andythenorth> maths must be wrong
05:28:41  <andythenorth> I have halved BANDIT or so
05:29:39  <andythenorth> Pikka: any airport pictures yet?
05:30:03  <Pikka> nothing new.  some of the old ones are still out there somewhere
05:31:38  <Pikka>
05:31:53  <Pikka> none of those layouts will be used though, except the skylift ring
05:32:06  <Pikka> which is now also the airship field, with different graphics obviously :)
05:33:22  <planetmaker> moin
05:33:28  <andythenorth> 'dusty airpark' :)
05:34:24  <Pikka> yep, gorne
05:34:48  <Pikka> although that one's significant in that it was used as the example in outlining the callback spec
05:35:22  <Pikka>
05:37:56  <andythenorth> hmm.  I had a question for Pikka
05:38:09  <andythenorth> but I forgit it
05:38:12  <Pikka> oops
05:38:52  <andythenorth> if you wanted a roundy-hut-thingy, I have an unused one from FIRS
05:38:53  <andythenorth>
05:39:08  <Pikka> mm, roundy hut thingy
05:39:41  <Pikka> nissen?
05:40:49  <andythenorth> almera
05:40:53  <andythenorth> yes, those
05:41:24  <andythenorth> so BANDIT is now local (small) and line-haul (big) trucks
05:41:31  <andythenorth> plus some special ones that I liked
05:41:44  <andythenorth> and log trucks and stuff are moved to HEQS
05:43:47  <Pikka> cool :)
05:43:50  <Pikka> hmm
05:43:55  <Pikka> make it 9 airports
05:44:04  <Pikka> I'm not making a seperate one just for the empire
05:44:37  <andythenorth> seaplanes?
05:44:42  <Pikka> yes
05:44:56  <Pikka> I'll let the empire land on the short runway
05:45:07  <Pikka> rather than make a special long water runway just for it
05:46:13  <andythenorth> extra-skilled pilot
05:46:32  <Pikka> yes
05:47:34  <andythenorth> do I need a parameter to enable real truck names? :P
05:47:44  <Pikka> probably not
05:48:06  * andythenorth likes fake names
05:49:01  <Pikka> do I need a helipad on a building?
05:49:07  <andythenorth> need?
05:49:12  <andythenorth> is a strong word
05:49:28  <Pikka> I suppose as far as airports go, it's about as simple as it gets
05:49:54  <andythenorth> the game already provides one?
05:49:59  <andythenorth> use that?
05:50:16  <Pikka> well, may as well draw my own, to fit with the rest :)
06:03:40  * andythenorth ponders stations
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06:49:02  <andythenorth> hmm
06:49:10  <andythenorth> can a station get the colour of a nearby industry?
06:49:14  * andythenorth suspects not
06:49:27  <andythenorth> would be an extension of var 67 perhaps
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07:01:03  <andythenorth> ho
07:01:06  <andythenorth> the klf
07:01:52  <andythenorth> Pikka: Ice cream van?
07:02:01  <andythenorth> cargo: justified abcients
07:02:07  <andythenorth> ancients /s
07:04:21  <peter1138> they're justified
07:04:23  <peter1138> and they're ancient
07:06:50  <peter1138> mu mu land
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07:16:17  <andythenorth> stand by the jams
07:16:30  <andythenorth> new industry: jam
07:17:12  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i wonder what language you people are speaking...
07:18:13  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like luxemburgish... you understand half the words, but the other half is meaningless gibberish
07:22:20  <andythenorth> englishish
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07:29:54  * andythenorth draws a flood loader
07:30:46  <Rubidium> but flooding makes vehicles explode ;)
07:32:46  <planetmaker> haha :-)
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07:36:35  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
07:36:49  <Alberth> hi andy
07:37:14  <Alberth> got a good night sleep after last nights heavy movement work ? :)
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07:42:40  <andythenorth> topic? english only, no englishish
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07:46:23  <Alberth> I was refering to you moving all kinds of heavy trucks from one place to another, and dismantling lots of them
07:47:42  <andythenorth> oh you missed the englishish discussion earlier ;)
07:48:00  <andythenorth> fortunately, (re)moving trucks is mostly 'hg rm'
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08:01:32  <Alberth> hmm, indeed, I missed that :)
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08:02:05  <Wolf01> hello
08:02:16  <Alberth> hi Wolf
08:02:58  <Alberth> I didn't know pixels exploded on contact with water, I have to try that one time ;)
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08:27:45  <andythenorth> I have taught the toddler to say 'mu mu land'
08:28:02  <andythenorth> we should replace toyland :P
08:28:17  <planetmaker> +1 :-P
08:28:23  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds dirty
08:28:38  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: when children play, it's never ever clean ;-)
08:28:53  <Wolf01> Alberth, didn't know that, but this forum says that Rubidium blocks explode in contact with water: eheh :P
08:29:19  <andythenorth>
08:31:31  * Alberth wants to play with the powder toy :)
08:32:06  <Pikka> andy: only problem is it's hard to make any money
08:32:17  <Pikka> every time you get a million you have to burn it in a field
08:35:19  <andythenorth> in the rain
08:35:20  <Alberth> just create a new currency with a really high exchange rate :p
08:35:24  <andythenorth> for 16 hours
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08:44:24  <andythenorth>
08:44:32  * andythenorth waves at Yexo :)
08:45:11  <Eddi|zuHause> "internal error"
08:46:37  <Pikka> fruit loader
08:46:42  <Alberth> walls do not look very strong for such a high building :)
08:46:56  * andythenorth is playing with powder toy :o
08:47:04  <andythenorth> maybe it can make pixels :P
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09:13:07  <Pikka> aircraft labels D:
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09:39:21  <andythenorth> :o
09:39:30  <Pikka> exactly
09:39:52  <andythenorth> 'if found, return this bear to...' ?
09:40:00  <andythenorth> 'best before end of xx/yy/zz' ?
09:40:33  <Pikka> yes
09:40:35  <andythenorth> 'this way up'
09:44:49  <andythenorth> labels to match planes to airports?
09:45:07  <Pikka> yes
09:45:15  <andythenorth> hmm
09:45:23  <Pikka> like railtypes
09:45:24  <andythenorth> trucks will need those too, when we have NewTruckStops
09:45:30  <andythenorth> but also roadtype labels
09:45:38  <andythenorth> we might need label-labels :P
09:45:48  <Pikka> well
09:45:54  <Pikka> same thing
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11:27:29  <andythenorth> V453000: p.67 here
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11:27:41  <andythenorth> about painting
11:28:13  <V453000> :)
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11:55:24  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ever thought about making stadium an industry, accepting passengers, food and beer?
11:55:45  <planetmaker> and meat!
11:55:54  <Eddi|zuHause> appears only in cities > 10000 inhabitants
11:56:31  <andythenorth> it's a valid idea
11:56:34  <andythenorth> same as hotel
11:56:44  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
11:56:53  <planetmaker> andythenorth: could be an alternative layout for hotel? :-)
11:57:07  <planetmaker> hm... we need a more generic name for 'hotel' then
11:57:09  <Eddi|zuHause> could make hotel "must be near water, or high heightlevel"
11:57:14  <planetmaker> tourist destination (Hotel)
11:57:20  <planetmaker> tourist destination (stadion)
11:57:40  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: can the station name property be varied depending on layout?
11:57:54  <planetmaker> Not sure. I think not
11:58:06  <planetmaker> would require it to be a callback
11:58:21  <Eddi|zuHause> that'd probably be very messy
11:58:50  <planetmaker> why would it be messy?
11:59:21  <Eddi|zuHause> it needs to be resolvable without the industry present?
11:59:43  <Eddi|zuHause> afaik station names are not stored explicitly
11:59:55  <Eddi|zuHause> (unless you modify it manually)
12:00:03  <planetmaker> yes. but the location callback needs the same
12:00:39  <planetmaker> as well as the layout callback
12:01:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, the station name must be recalculateable long after the industry is gone
12:01:31  <Eddi|zuHause> (not sure how this is currently implemented)
12:02:33  * andythenorth is off to a wedding
12:02:37  <andythenorth> might bbl
12:02:40  <planetmaker> iirc there's two ways for a station name: the game-generated one (which can include a newgrf- supplied string) and custom station names
12:02:44  <planetmaker> enjoy andythenorth
12:02:46  <andythenorth> or maybe April 1st
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12:44:11  <drac_boy> hi
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12:59:28  <Eddi|zuHause> man... i can't get this timetable right :(
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13:00:54  <drac_boy> heh I never could really figure some of it out before, funny thing was that I was going to ask someone to show me but then that particular server stopped showing up online :-/
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13:08:03  <drac_boy> which of, there any grf creators in here?
13:12:58  <Wolf01> could the game scripts be used to show other players which button to click, maybe making the button blink or something else?
13:13:39  <drac_boy> what you want to blink? just wondering
13:13:56  <Wolf01> the button border for example
13:14:12  <drac_boy> yeah but what kind of button?
13:14:25  <Wolf01> every kind of button in the gui
13:15:04  <Wolf01> but I might need just the main toolbar buttons
13:15:34  <drac_boy> Wolf01 still doesn't make sense to me....they don't need user input asap so why are you trying to do that?
13:15:53  <Wolf01> to teach or give hints to other players
13:16:04  <drac_boy> thats what reading the wiki screenshots are for btw
13:16:59  <Wolf01> not every player is so smart to understand how to use a wiki to learn something
13:17:18  <Wolf01> and most players want to learn ingame
13:17:30  <Wolf01> that's why game scripts were made (tutorials)
13:17:48  <Wolf01> and other similar things
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13:18:57  <drac_boy> Wolf01 if you can't figure out that the same place you downloaded the game from is the place to find help pages that even a youth could easily read ...then I dunno what else to tell you?
13:19:09  <drac_boy> sorry if that was a little harsh..didn't meant to :)
13:19:41  <Wolf01> please tell me why if you don't understand my point, the suggestion has no sense and should not be considered
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13:22:26  <drac_boy> hmm anyhow..for any grf creator around..I'm wondering if theres any limit on the tiles size of industries or theres pretty much none?
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13:27:35  <gheppe> qlcn parla italiano
13:28:54  <Rubidium> most in here don't speak Italian
13:29:17  <drac_boy> yeah I have no clue what italian is
13:29:19  <drac_boy> heh :)
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13:29:45  <Wolf01> I offered my help but he didn't respond :(
13:29:59  <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> could the game scripts be used to show other players which button to click, maybe making the button blink or something else? <--- afair something like that has been implemented
13:30:33  <Wolf01> good to know
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13:34:32  <drac_boy> oh there was something else too...can plane and helicopter ids be mixed or its pretty much fixed to 37+3?
13:37:25  <frosch123> Wolf01: check zuu's tutorial scenario & script on bananas
13:38:01  <frosch123> drac_boy: you can have 65000 aircraft no matter what type
13:38:31  <drac_boy> frosch123 heh I should clarify that its going to be an universal grf, not just for ottd
13:38:59  <drac_boy> or is the patch also now unlimited too and I never noticed any news on that?
13:39:12  <frosch123> ok, but you can stil mix plane and helicopters as you wish
13:39:19  <drac_boy> allright, thanks
13:39:41  <drac_boy> was not too sure about that one at first. at least I did figure out that the rail ids can be mixed anywhere
13:41:03  <Zuu> frosch123: Thanks to some help from _Rubidium the bananas database is linked so that when someone picks the scenario, the script is selected as well as a dependency.
13:41:25  <Zuu> Its not possible to do in the GUI, but the underlying system supports it.
13:41:48  <drac_boy> zuu huh, I never knew that...dependency in banana sounds nice
13:42:10  <drac_boy> guess it does make sense for scenarios with newgrf buildings tho
13:42:28  <Zuu> AIs can depend on AI libraries and GS can depend on GS libraries. Other than that, I don't think the GUI support any other dependencies.
13:43:05  <drac_boy> there is only one thing about newgrfs that still annoys me a bit at times but I don't see any plausible ways to fix it...
13:43:09  <Zuu> With GUI I refer to the bananas website BTW.
13:43:18  <drac_boy> having to install grfs in specific orders to avoid some being disabled
13:43:23  <frosch123> wasn't andy working on bananas II ? :p
13:43:29  <drac_boy> eg with Total Bridges or pretty much most of the ecs grfs
13:43:59  <drac_boy> would be nice if one day you could just install grfs in whatever order it apparently is as and it wouldn't bug you anymore.  maybe thats just too much to ask atm
13:44:27  <Zuu> Some fun has to be saved for the users ;-)
13:44:42  <drac_boy> zuu you call THAT "fun"? blah :p
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13:46:36  <drac_boy> frosch123 I assume that for patch/ottd its still only 3 railtypes but for ottd alone its plausible to have several?
13:46:43  <drac_boy> or was there something else I'm still not reading yet?
13:47:13  <Pikka> drac_boy: the total number of people who still use TTDPatch you can count on two fingers, I shouldn't bother.
13:47:17  <frosch123> ottd can have 16 railtypes
13:47:48  <drac_boy> pikka not all patch users are even on irc or forum. hell I just haven't bothered with the forum for a long time and still don't :)
13:48:34  <frosch123> if they are not on the forums how would they find your grf?
13:48:42  <drac_boy> frosch123 allright ty, just thinking about the idea of going with two grfs. one with limited rails and other with no limit. don't know yet, will have to see what it'll take to have that coded
13:49:22  <frosch123> are you using nfo or nml btw?
13:49:22  <drac_boy> frosch123 mind you when I first started playing with the patch I already had downloaded several grfs and never knew there was a forum for another few months
13:50:03  <drac_boy> frosch123 I'm not sure yet. I guess I'm more of the artist/owner and looking to someone else to get it coded for most part
13:50:26  <drac_boy> had tried a bit of nfo before but its just not my kind of thing
13:50:51  <frosch123> well, i doubt nml can encode a vehicle grf that works with ttdp
13:51:08  <drac_boy> oh ok
13:51:53  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... don't try to stop a transrapid < 20 tiles from the destination...
13:52:16  <Rubidium> why? Because it reaches it destination?
13:52:27  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: just remove some track piece in front
13:52:31  <frosch123> and it can stop within 1 tile
13:52:35  <Rubidium> s/s it/s its/
13:52:39  <drac_boy> heh
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13:55:20  <morph`> WHEN'S THE TIME?!
13:55:25  <drac_boy> I'm just asking anyone in here: what would you first think of if I asked you to name a heavy non-articulated mainline steam locomotive?
13:55:35  <drac_boy> in general that is, no need to be railroad specific
13:55:51  <drac_boy> morph time for....umm..what? :)
13:56:10  <FLHerne> Gresley P1?
13:56:17  <Zuu> Big bertha? :-)  I'm probably too young for steemers :-)
13:56:29  <goodger> drac_boy: LNER A4
13:57:02  <morph`> WHEN'S THE TIME FOR.. ?
13:57:31  <drac_boy> heh flherne and goodger you two are british aren't you? :)
13:57:39  <goodger> oh my yes
13:57:57  <FLHerne> Yes :P
13:58:36  <FLHerne> Coronations are probably bulkier, actually...
13:58:51  <drac_boy> zuu heh I did find that one a curiousity to me especially the one rare photo of a big bretha and lner garrat on the same train
13:58:53  <FLHerne> not as big as those huge U.S. things though
13:59:33  <drac_boy> flherne yeah usa was mostly 8-coupled instead
14:00:19  <drac_boy> afaik unless someone corrects me their biggest mainline would had been the 4-8-4 across any network .. although in some areas it was different. UP had a few 10-coupled on their long straight mainlines
14:00:37  <FLHerne> P2s were our only 8-coupled pax locos, AFAIK
14:01:09  <drac_boy> flherne knowing a bit about uk and their restricted clearance gauge I wouldn't be too surprised if 6-coupled were ruled on for that reason
14:01:55  <drac_boy> even now and then I hear of a steam event not having a particular locomotive because it wouldn't fit the bridge/station clearance on its route to the location in question
14:02:38  <FLHerne> Quite likely, the loading gauge here is silly. DD stock sortof shows that
14:03:19  <FLHerne> I seem to remember somethig about Gresley designing a 4-8-2 A4 replacement, not sure though
14:03:37  <drac_boy> flherne even then there were sometimes certain usa locomotives built as small and/or short as they were because of an old clearance problem that was still too expensive to be fixed (usually long tunnels or so)
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14:05:20  <drac_boy> flherne on the contrast there was one old Utah railroad that had a baldwin mallet that had steam pressure operated piston corks only because the usual steel cables would had bind badly on the very sharp curves
14:05:44  <drac_boy> it was a silly thing to watch sometimes, the front truck could swing almost all the way away from the boiler to make the curves...thats how tight it was
14:06:20  <FLHerne> Interesting...those Shay contraptions look quite odd, too
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14:07:54  <drac_boy> btw this was the best one I could find on a short notice
14:08:09  <drac_boy> its not all curved out yet but it does show you how sharp these poor cheap curves could be
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14:09:39  <FLHerne> That's already rather angled - looks very strange
14:09:42  <drac_boy> flherne the shays were built more or less specifically for logging rails which were often just dumped onto the ground 'as is' which sometimes could be too rough for the usual siderod locomotives to travel over
14:10:04  <drac_boy> having two seperate 2-axle trucks with lot of travel pretty much made the shay able to run on anything
14:11:19  <drac_boy> btw flherne I found a real photo this time  again..some of a curve :)
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14:11:38  <drac_boy> crazy I know, they seem to have been the only railway (afaik) that had mallets on very short curves
14:11:47  <FLHerne> AARK!
14:12:12  <FLHerne> Looks like it might fall over to the left...
14:12:35  <drac_boy> heh well it was a slow line so I don't think they ever had any problem with speed-related derailments :)
14:13:02  <FLHerne> centre-line of the boiler's well outside the outer rail, at least at the front
14:13:07  <drac_boy> and you have to remember that a good bulk of the weight was at the firebox and bunkers which were mostly sitting on the fixed rear section
14:13:22  <drac_boy> it was only the front section that swung
14:13:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i properly managed the timetable now. had to move all trains to the depot, put in two waypoints before the join, and let the timetable be recalculated from scratch, then work out an interleaving scheme
14:14:28  <FLHerne> drac_boy: I know :P Still looks worrying though
14:14:28  <Eddi|zuHause>,%2029.%20Aug%202019.png
14:14:35  <drac_boy> flherne btw re an earlier line of yours...i think there were a few things gresley had wanted to try if it wasn't for everything being interrupted by WWII
14:15:30  <FLHerne> Yeah...shame he never got to try any of them :-(
14:16:22  <drac_boy> flherne the funny thing that I think about tho is that WWII probably also saved some groups of steamers from being cut up 'soon'
14:16:59  <drac_boy> especially on SR where they had the third rails laid down everywhere but still didn't have the fleet needed yet
14:18:38  <drac_boy> so hmm I guess this question may be good for you or some other british user here.. would a 4-4-0 probably had been a decent light mains locomotive?
14:21:06  <FLHerne> Yes, for a while
14:21:32  <drac_boy> from the sound of that I assume theres a different choice?
14:22:00  <FLHerne> Mostly got replaced on heavier workings by 4-6-0s etc later, but stayed in use on secondary lines into the late '50s
14:23:27  <FLHerne> Somerset & Dorset line 2Ps were quite a good example later on
14:24:20  <FLHerne> - piloting a Bullied Light Pacific
14:24:30  <FLHerne> *Bulleid, even
14:25:53  <FLHerne> LNER and previous went for 4-4-2s over 4-4-0s, don't know if OTTD has any
14:26:40  <FLHerne> GWR moved to 4-6-0s under Churchward in the 190xs and 1910s
14:27:09  <FLHerne> In general, the ex-Midland ones lasted longest
14:28:22  <drac_boy> flherne the thing with the tailing axle always is interesting. sometimes it was due to weight spread other times it was for other reasons instead
14:28:59  <drac_boy> in some cases in usa you could have what should had been a 2-6-2 becoming a 2-6-4 on one railroad instead because of the firebox being a bit too heavy for their own rails
14:31:12  <FLHerne> I think Ivatt liked big fireboxes, which wouldn't fit over a trailing pair of drivers
14:31:31  <drac_boy> flherne and I don't know if you've heard of it but some steam locomotives were called 'welter' because they were designed to be lighter due to the railroad's own restrictions
14:31:57  <drac_boy> even NYC had some welter 4-8-4's too .. not everything on NYC was always big :)
14:33:07  <drac_boy> flherne mind you I've liked the Ivatt locomotives a bit....mainly the moguls
14:33:17  <drac_boy> the Ivatt mogul always seem perfect to me for some reason
14:33:24  <FLHerne> Hmm. Never thought of weight restrictions being an issue on US mainlines, what with the size of everything :P
14:33:29  <drac_boy> not too big boiler but looks perfect
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14:33:48  <FLHerne> I prefer his small-boilered Atlantics myself
14:33:52  <drac_boy> flherne well in northeast some weight restrictions were from old city viaducts
14:34:41  <drac_boy> that explained why certain stations always only saw terminal-located shunters or lightweight 6-coupled powers even into the 40's .. and it only took the emd ft to finally end that restriction for good
14:35:12  <drac_boy> one such viaduct I recall was only good for about 150,000 per axle which pretty much ruled out most modern powers
14:35:43  <drac_boy> the emd ft was a little heavier than that but it was allowed because it didn't have any counterweight dynamics to factor in
14:36:33  <drac_boy> flherne atlantics isn't anything new here but very few railroads really took them up
14:36:46  <drac_boy> if you want a good one look up PRR tho..they had a lot of high-wheeled atlantics :)
14:36:59  <drac_boy> one of these became famous for rushing a photographer specials
14:41:32  <drac_boy> flherne have you ever heard of a 2-2-2-2?
14:42:17  <drac_boy> one of these britian steam history magazine I got had one photo of such locomotive. it was sorta like a 2-2-2 but with a second drive axle added. weird idea indeed. caption even mentioned that very few drivers could figure it out too
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14:47:43  <FLHerne> I've heard of them
14:48:32  <FLHerne> Seems like a bizzare idea, I believe it was a compound with the HP and LP cylinders driving separate axles?
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14:59:28  <drac_boy> going for now but thanks for the help with both steam locomotives and re grfs :)
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15:13:04  <Rhamphoryncus> Augh
15:13:42  <Rhamphoryncus> Build new line.  Switch trains to new line.  Start upgrading old line.  Remove signals on old line.  Trains crash... failed to wait for old line to clear :P
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15:25:09  <oskari89> Someone said that Railtypes can have level crossings (unified) on 2-rail lines?
15:25:20  <oskari89> Or do i remeber right :P
15:26:55  <Pikka> no, they can't
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15:36:43  <Eddi|zuHause> ... i have a patch for that (no graphical changes)
15:42:32  <oskari89> Hmm, warning devices can be overlayed :P
15:43:24  <planetmaker> oskari89: that is aslready the case with railtypes
15:43:32  <Pikka> we've been told (tm) that rails aren't going to get to check their neighboring tiles, presumably for performance reasons :)
15:43:48  <planetmaker> the level crossings are composed of 5 sprites: track + 4 warning signs (each corner 1)
15:43:56  <planetmaker> and then of course the normal road tile beneath
15:44:29  <planetmaker> I probably missed the topic :-)
15:44:43  <oskari89> Railtypes can have different type of warning devices? :)
15:44:49  <planetmaker> yes
15:44:57  <oskari89> And different maintenance costs?
15:44:58  <planetmaker> each railtype may define its own
15:45:03  <planetmaker> that's per railtype
15:45:09  <oskari89> Ok.
15:45:23  <oskari89> Just planning Finnish Rail Set ones.
15:45:29  <planetmaker> but of course railtpyes even may define time-dependent graphics etc :-)
15:45:53  <planetmaker> but you do not know the build date for rail tiles. Except for depots and stations
15:46:32  <oskari89> So graphics can be "upgraded" on the fly :P
15:46:47  <oskari89> For example, wooden sleepers to concrete ones..
15:48:20  <Pikka> oh no it's april 1st
15:48:37  <oskari89> Not quite yet :P
15:48:44  <Pikka> quite yet
15:48:48  <Pikka> by almost 2 hours
15:48:57  <oskari89> 5 hours here :)
15:50:23  <planetmaker> oskari89: yes, graphics for rail tiles will be updated on the fly, if you use time-dependent ones and it's not a station or depot
15:51:03  <oskari89> Ok.
15:51:04  <planetmaker> basically what I do e.g. with SwedishRails is for level crossings: I set a transition start date. And use the 2 random bits for the tiles to decide when that particular tile gets converted to the new form
15:51:26  <planetmaker> within 20 years all tiles are converted. Every 5 years 1/4 of all
15:51:37  <planetmaker> but thus it doesn't show that strongly :-)
15:51:57  <oskari89> Ok, that's wisely done.
15:52:22  <planetmaker> should you write in NML and use GPL-licensed: all the code is on the devzone freely available
15:52:46  <oskari89> Maybe.
15:53:29  <planetmaker> only thing really missing for that set is making use of the new tunnel sprite feature
15:53:42  <planetmaker> with that updated, I guess I should then call it 1.0 :-P
15:53:53  <oskari89> Properties, such as speed can't be modified on the fly?
15:54:16  <planetmaker> no
15:54:26  <planetmaker> they're fixed
15:54:28  <oskari89> Ok, since that would simplify things even more.
15:54:37  <planetmaker> why?
15:54:42  <planetmaker> or how?
15:54:53  <planetmaker> let speed be decided by the trains ;-)
15:55:03  <oskari89> That is true too :P
15:55:20  <planetmaker> double speed limit is - from at least how I play - only annoying
15:55:35  <planetmaker> more interesting is a concept of axle weights
15:55:57  <oskari89> Here we in Finland, infrastructure is always limiting train speeds :P
15:56:01  <planetmaker> which would basically mean to assign that as meta-property to trains by giving them the appropriate railtypes availability
16:00:07  <planetmaker> but generally: no breakdowns. No wagon speed limits, realistic accel for trains and except when using egrvts also for RV
16:03:55  *** ricky26 [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:05:13  <oskari89> Wagon speed limits are more realistic :P
16:05:41  <Zuu> Depends on which reality you live in :-p
16:05:41  <oskari89> It demands you more from infrastructure :)
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16:06:26  <planetmaker> oskari89: a wagon in reality hardly limits speed. It's the company which disallows faster travel with them
16:06:43  <planetmaker> so I say, that's even worse ;-)
16:08:49  <__ln__>
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16:26:32  <Eddi|zuHause> well... we certainly have april weather here...
16:26:48  <Eddi|zuHause> wind, rain, snow, sunshine (in that order)
16:27:40  <V453000> indeed
16:27:56  <__ln__> i was looking at the weather gadget on desktop and the snow in germany seemed a little surprising
16:30:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not _that_ uncommon to snow in april
16:30:48  <planetmaker> April, April, der macht, was er will
16:31:10  <Eddi|zuHause> although the last time we went searching eastereggs in the snow was like 25 years ago :)
16:31:17  <planetmaker> we had hail already today. And sunshine. And rain. And wind
16:31:47  <__ln__> only snow and sunshine here today
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16:32:09  <Pinkbeast> Bright and sunny here but still poxy cold
16:32:48  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i learned it as "April, April, der weiß nicht was er will"
16:33:32  <Eddi|zuHause> it was summerly warm a week ago
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16:34:58  <planetmaker> we learnt it different then, Eddi|zuHause :-)
16:35:03  <Rhamphoryncus> Wagons aren't limited in speed in the same way that a car engine doesn't have a hard rpm limit.  It's an artificial limitation
16:35:19  <planetmaker> Indeed quite a bit lower... I was kinda happy to not have put away the warmer part of my jacket
16:35:34  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: was sunny when you wrote it, now it is a thunderstorm here
16:37:14  * Alberth learnt the saying about may just like planetmaker
16:37:24  <Alberth> *april
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17:06:13  *** Jogio [] has joined #openttd
17:08:11  <Jogio> hi moin bonjourno mahlzeit servus tag hello dere mitanand
17:08:20  <Jogio> :-)
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17:14:01  <Alberth> hi
17:20:29  <Rhamphoryncus> aaaugh.  Speedlink Open in UKRS2 is broken and autorefit doesn't work.  Nice to find out after manually converting 110 trains
17:22:17  <frosch123> Jogio: you should synchronise the greetings with the current time in areas where the languages are spoken :p
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17:24:54  <Jogio> frosch123: hi moin mahlzeit servus tag hello dere mitanand quack quack quack :-)
17:27:01  <Eddi|zuHause> also, it's "tach", not "tag" :)
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17:31:16  <Jogio> bad news eddi, I think panorama screenshot is cancled by Mr. or Mrs. p.
17:34:08  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause may know that I'm not convinced by Panorama-Screenshot...
17:35:12  <planetmaker> simply on grounds that it's not a word which I'd associate even on 2nd thought with a zoomed-in one
17:35:20  <Eddi|zuHause> when it wasn't accepted when including the patch, i certainly don't expect it to be accepted now
17:35:38  <planetmaker> it's only a translation ;-)
17:36:45  <Jogio> but the png you get look like a panorama of the map :-)
17:36:54  <planetmaker> it's not a thing I'd veto. But I'd not change it to it myself ;-)
17:37:24  * Alberth has 360 degrees photos in mind with 'panorama'
17:37:29  <planetmaker> Jogio: that's the giant screenshot
17:37:33  <planetmaker> Alberth: so do I
17:37:48  <Jogio> and it's such a nice word and begins with p exactly like your name
17:38:15  <Alberth> it does?
17:38:19  <planetmaker> let's rename OpenTTD to Panorama ;-)
17:38:35  <Alberth> nah, too ordinary :)
17:38:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd accociate "panorama" with any wider overview
17:38:48  <planetmaker> Amaronap?
17:39:09  <Jogio> good idea for first april planetmaker :-)
17:39:41  <Alberth> too complicated, nobody will get it :)
17:40:07  <Jogio> Yeah and ARD has copyrights
17:40:16  <Jogio> or ZDF
17:40:33  <planetmaker> they don't. Nor trademark
17:40:39  <planetmaker> trademarks are per category
17:40:58  <planetmaker> and I'd be surprised if they got it reserved for comptuer games
17:41:29  <Alberth> in which case, we don't have a game, but a 'simulation' :p
17:41:30  <planetmaker> you can't copyright an ordinary word anyway
17:41:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24081 /trunk/src/lang/irish.txt:
17:41:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:41:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: irish - 17 changes by tem
17:42:06  <planetmaker> it needs to surpass the "Schöpfungshöhe"
17:42:27  <Jogio> oh no it's too late for panorama screenshot
17:42:36  <Jogio> :-)
17:44:06  <Alberth> hmm, a german explanation of a german word is not helping much :)
17:45:23  <Alberth> Hmm, code might work better if I stop comparing actual path tile values with conceptual ones :)
17:45:26  <TWerkhoven> base-height?
17:45:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: why not? handling single-language dictionaries are part of all advanced foreign language classes
17:45:35  <TWerkhoven> ground level
17:45:38  <planetmaker> Alberth: what word?
17:45:44  <Alberth> Schöpfungshöhe
17:46:11  <planetmaker> it's a term from copyright law. It basically describes the need to have *some* originality before you can claim copyright
17:46:48  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: "Die Schöpfungshöhe (auch: Gestaltungshöhe, Werkhöhe)[1] ist ein Kriterium, das im Urheberrecht urheberrechtlich geschÃŒtzte Werke  von solchen Leistungen abgrenzt, die keinem urheberrechtlichen Schutz  unterliegen. Die Notwendigkeit einer solchen Abgrenzung in jeder Rechtsordnung beruht darauf, dass das zentrale internationalen Abkommen zum Urheberrecht, die Revidierte Berner Übereinkunft,  den Begriff Werk voraus setzt und
17:47:04  <Alberth> is not very helpful to me :)
17:47:35  <planetmaker> it basically is the borderline between trivial and genuine work
17:47:35  <Eddi|zuHause> very legalese :)
17:48:19  <Alberth> planetmaker: yeah, I got that far with the "Eigentumsbegriff" :)
17:48:45  <planetmaker> :-)
17:48:52  <planetmaker> You cannot go further basically.
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17:48:59  <Alberth> :)
17:49:28  <planetmaker> As in case of doubt a court has to rule whether some work is sufficiently genuine to be subject to copyright or trivial enough to not warrant any protection by copyright
17:50:36  <Alberth> makes sense
17:52:19  <planetmaker> e.g. when I adjust contrast and colours of a photo I certainly are below that. But if I cut out the person from it and it on another background it might be sufficient for being subject to copyright
17:52:27  <Eddi|zuHause> there was once a case where someone copied code from a html page, and the other person sued, but lost, because the page was generated by word's "export as HTML" feature, and thus did not reach the "schöpfungshöhe"
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17:52:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24082 /branches/1.2/ (32 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:52:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [1.2] -Backport from trunk:
17:52:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Update: languages
17:52:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: A fix that breaks all other cases isn't really a fix. Redo it to make
17:52:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: sure that reservations of trains entering or exiting depots are properly made
17:52:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: and freed-Fix [FS#5093,FS#5130] (r24071): A fix that breaks all other cases
17:52:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: isn't really a fix. Redo it to make sure that reservations of trains entering or
17:54:20  <Jogio> oh it's like christmas
17:55:43  <Rubidium> Christmas? Don't be a fool. Or should we pity the fool?
17:55:57  <planetmaker> :-)
17:56:43  <Jogio> what we pity the fool? no sounds not good
17:57:10  <planetmaker> April 1st is April fools day...
17:57:20  <planetmaker> Christmas is Christmas day ;-)
17:57:25  <Jogio> i wrote some tschuuh- tschuuhs and brum-brums on my wishlist
17:57:36  <planetmaker> so when we worship Christmas on Christmas, what do we do April 1st?
17:57:49  <V453000> you will see :>
17:58:06  <Jogio> playing openttd?
17:58:14  <V453000> yessss
17:58:22  <planetmaker> might do that. Though... not me :-(
17:58:33  *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone -]
17:59:21  <planetmaker> gotta be near Amsterdam Monday at 9. Thus we leave at 4pm tomorrow...
18:00:51  <V453000> well we start playing at midnight :D
18:01:11  <V453000> this midnight :)
18:01:38  <Jogio> i usually sleep at midnight
18:01:54  <V453000> special day :p
18:01:59  <Jogio> or a little bit later
18:06:30  <V453000> Q: in what timezone is bananas? GMT?
18:06:43  <V453000> or +1?
18:07:10  <Rubidium> utc?
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18:08:12  <V453000> oh :)
18:08:13  <Alberth> most unix machines use utc :)
18:08:22  <V453000> thanks
18:08:55  <V453000> ooooh o_O I always hated the summer time
18:09:12  <V453000> so now I have in gmt+1 two hours more than utc
18:09:40  <planetmaker> er what?
18:09:54  <V453000> is this correct?
18:09:55  <planetmaker> we're now at gmt+2
18:10:37  <planetmaker> yes, it is correct
18:10:49  <planetmaker> cet = gmt+1. cest = gmt+2
18:10:59  <planetmaker> gmt knows no summer or winter time.
18:11:11  <V453000> thats what surprised me
18:11:13  <Alberth> according to tt-forums, even utc has summer time :)     " All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]"   :p
18:11:13  <V453000> hm ok :)
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18:12:19  <planetmaker> V453000: it doesn't mean that britain has no summer time (dunno). But the standard time better not have such quirks
18:12:28  <V453000> yes I understand :)
18:12:51  <V453000> I dont quite care about that, I just needed to know when bananas says 1.4.
18:13:10  <planetmaker> dunno. Probably gmt ;-)
18:13:16  <V453000> :D
18:13:26  <V453000> w/e I upload it today and call it 1.4 edition
18:13:38  <V453000> fuck time :D
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18:40:46  <andythenorth> efening
18:41:24  <Alberth> moin andy
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19:16:33  <ISA> hey!
19:17:35  <andythenorth> hey!
19:19:48  <ISA> hey andy, You probably know something about industries and it's code?
19:20:02  <andythenorth> :)
19:20:32  <Terkhen> I reckon he knows a thing or two
19:20:39  <Alberth> ISA: he suppressed it all from memory
19:21:58  <ISA> as i have done some drawing on the back stage I wanted to know some thing and how I should end them
19:22:52  <ISA> its about mine ground tiles... are they coded as separate and buildings overlap?
19:23:08  <ISA> or is this way possible to code if that not they way they work
19:23:09  <andythenorth> each tile is a stack of sprites
19:23:22  <ISA> so they overlap in other words?
19:23:25  <andythenorth> yup
19:23:26  <andythenorth> 1 min
19:23:43  <ISA> like original coal mine for example
19:24:02  <ISA> ground and then buildings over laps them?
19:24:05  <andythenorth> yup
19:24:08  <andythenorth>
19:24:13  <andythenorth> ^ that's the FIRS quarry
19:24:23  <ISA> good
19:24:28  <andythenorth> buildings on the right of that spritesheet explain it better than words
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19:25:17  <ISA> dam
19:25:22  <ISA> messed up something :D
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19:25:30  <ISA> back in
19:26:16  <ISA> so thanks andy that cleard things up... Now I can creat some ground tiles then
19:26:32  <ISA> cleared
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19:27:09  <mrfrenzy> hey, I know you have all seen the google 8-bit map today
19:27:21  <mrfrenzy> has someone thought about making a openttd-map-generator from that?
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19:27:47  <Alberth> no idea what you are talking about
19:28:11  <ISA> :D
19:28:25  <andythenorth> Alberth:
19:28:57  <andythenorth> it's like railroad tycoon :P
19:29:06  <ISA> yup
19:29:11  <Alberth> neat :)
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19:29:41  <ISA> or transport giant or whatever the game was called
19:30:11  <Alberth> there are ascii-art generators that you can tweak, I think
19:30:14  <Rubidium> interesting...
19:30:40  <Rubidium> both the Netherlands and Poland are shown, but Germany not yet (as name) at reasonably zoomed out level
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19:31:09  <__ln__>
19:31:23  <Rubidium> then zooming in one step shows Berlin (not Germany), but also two towns in Denmark and two in France. The oddity
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19:32:12  <Rubidium> streetview is just plain ugly though
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19:35:22  <oskari89> Streetview looks like acid trip :P
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19:42:46  <andythenorth> " Your system may not meet the minumum requirements for 8-bit computations."
19:43:00  <andythenorth> google did a typo :o
19:44:01  <ISA> XD
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19:49:35  <ISA> ok Im off
19:50:16  <ISA> watching ny red bulls game on tv
19:50:17  <ISA> cya
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20:00:07  <drac_boy> hi
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20:09:41  <Terkhen> hi drac_boy
20:10:46  <drac_boy> hi terkhen how're you?
20:10:54  <Terkhen> can't complain
20:11:02  <Terkhen> but I usually do anyways
20:11:36  <drac_boy> heh
20:11:57  <drac_boy> doing ok here, just had a nice resting
20:12:11  <drac_boy> wondering about trying do some more grf work or not....still no good online games atm as usual :-s
20:12:51  <mrfrenzy> how is work coming on the 32bpp-graphics?
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20:25:50  <oskari89> Does someone know that can default level crossing warning sound be replaced with grf?
20:26:26  <oskari89> Or having a continous level crossing warning sound when level crossing is on warning state?
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20:34:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's a bug with the log tug: it moves backwards while unloading
20:34:32  <andythenorth> I thought I fixed that :P
20:35:21  <andythenorth> hmm
20:35:28  <andythenorth> it has to move a bit
20:36:18  <andythenorth> changing the size of the 'vehicle' means changing the centre of rotation
20:36:28  <frosch123> oskari89: you can replace all sounds with newgrfs. but for the level crossing there is only a sound for closing it
20:36:37  <drac_boy> log one of the people working on that boat grf?
20:36:43  <frosch123> you can make it longer or shorter, but there is no releation with reopening
20:39:01  * drac_boy still plays with danmack's old one-boat fishing boat grf at times
20:40:07  <oskari89> frosch123: Closing? I thought when train is on top of crossing :)
20:40:36  <andythenorth> as far as I know, nobody is currently working on boat grfs, although Michael Blunck might be
20:40:39  <frosch123> might also be that
20:41:01  <frosch123> it's the same when not using pbs
20:41:21  <frosch123> and i have not played with sound since the introduction of pbs :p
20:41:44  * drac_boy never bothered with any sound/music in the game due to other things in background having focus on the sound card anyway
20:41:46  <drac_boy> heh heh
20:42:04  <frosch123> exactly ^^
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20:43:17  <frosch123> and after installing a flash blocking ff-addon with white-listing (i.e. block everything by default), there are no longer any stupid ads babbling into my music
20:43:31  <frosch123> though i was quite surprised that a flash blocker blocks 90% of all ads
20:43:54  <frosch123> nowadays
20:44:27  <drac_boy> I just simply don't have flash and the host set to not allow external domains ... stupid simple solution after all :)
20:44:43  <frosch123> i stopped using adblockers since they slowed everything... but the flash blocker plugin is trivial compared to the fance adblockers
20:45:49  <SpComb> NoScript has useful side-effects
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20:50:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i just disabled JavaScript and all plugins (means Flash)
20:50:38  <Eddi|zuHause> and then half a dozen urls into the image filter
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20:52:54  <frosch123> night
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20:58:48  <drac_boy> any of you know of any good example of C' (or 0-6-0 for these other people) light duty diesel locomotive? just wanted look up some photos, not much else there
20:58:56  <drac_boy> don't care which transmission it uses
21:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: west german V60 (i believe the east german V60 was D, not C)
21:01:09  <Eddi|zuHause>
21:01:55  <drac_boy> heh I had forgotten about that one, thanks
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21:05:43  <drac_boy> while we're at the V numbering, how about the V200 with Y exhaust .. or V36 hauling these thunder coaches
21:05:45  <drac_boy> :)
21:06:38  * andythenorth shirks drawing trucks
21:07:12  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea what an Y exhaust is
21:07:44  <drac_boy> sorry I think thats what some people called them...since rather than going straight up as usual it was deflected off toward both sides as to blow clear of the overhead wires
21:08:07  <drac_boy> andythenorth road or offroad kind? :)
21:08:34  <andythenorth> road kind
21:08:57  <drac_boy> Kensworth? heh .. maybe I shouldn't ask and just let you get back to work
21:08:58  *** TWerkhoven[l] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:10:41  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: i know that only of the V160 (BR 218) that the exhaust was "split" sidewards
21:11:30  <drac_boy> hmm maybe it was that one instead, sorry
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21:22:06  <andythenorth> hmm
21:22:22  <andythenorth> T/E coefficient is a direct proxy for gear ratios in vehicles
21:22:43  <andythenorth> i.e. gear ratio is a factor in actual TE
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21:23:35  <andythenorth> also....bedtime
21:23:39  <andythenorth> good night
21:23:45  <drac_boy> bye andythenorth
21:23:47  <Terkhen> good night andythenorth
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21:24:24  <drac_boy> hmm allright think I got the locomotive list almost done now
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21:33:59  <drac_boy> hmm would you had quoted it as A-1 or A'1 for a locomotive with two axles but only one powered?
21:34:58  * Rhamphoryncus ponders the fact that a 1.5 tile logging truck carries 141 tonnes of wood but the 4 tile train carries 180 tonnes
21:35:38  <drac_boy> Rhamphoryncus thats the problem with different grfs coming together on a single map I believe :-/
21:35:48  <Rhamphoryncus> yeah
21:35:56  <drac_boy> and beside 141 tonnes sound a bit on the heavy side even if it was only an offroad log truck
21:36:54  <Rhamphoryncus> aye
21:37:24  <drac_boy> Rhamphoryncus also one of the other problem I've sometimes wondered about is how do you define the weight of a overly-generic cargo too? I mean "goods" could mean one 4x10ft crate holds only 20kg of glass yet another 2x6ft crate holds 100kg of lead blocks
21:37:25  <Rhamphoryncus> The articulated flatbed does 56
21:37:49  <Rhamphoryncus> Goods are deliberately vague
21:38:04  <drac_boy> 'food' is another one too..and I'm sure theres a few more
21:39:29  <drac_boy> Rhamphoryncus also I'm still thinking about the HEQS trams (I'm guilt for loving them ok??!)
21:40:18  <drac_boy> two 48km/h trams in a circular loop can haul much more for cheaper than two cheap 0-6-0 Goods locomotive in ukrs2 would think about dealing with
21:40:28  <drac_boy> ^_^
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21:43:10  <drac_boy> Rhamphoryncus I'm not trying to bushwhack anyone but I never understood why airplanes are always left artifically too cheap :p
21:43:33  <Rhamphoryncus> too cheap?  Anything short of infinite is free :P
21:44:08  <drac_boy> you're really funny
21:44:11  <drac_boy> :)
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21:44:44  <Rhamphoryncus> I'm actually serious.  Once you're established you never worry about money again
21:45:26  * drac_boy thinks you'll have to play one of my game where most costs are finally reasonable
21:45:28  <drac_boy> :)
21:46:28  <Rhamphoryncus> I've tried to balance costs in my own games.  Usually I die early on by picking something that's not profitable.  After a couple attempts I find what works.. then the game reverts to normal.
21:47:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24083 /branches/1.2/ (6 files in 4 dirs): [1.2] -Update: documentation
21:48:28  <drac_boy> heh
21:49:20  * Pinkbeast uses HEQS trams for short hops only, they're taking the mickey a bit for train distances
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21:50:26  <drac_boy> pinkbeast what do you use when you want to fly? :)
21:50:48  <Pinkbeast> av8, but I rarely use aircraft at all
21:51:10  <Pinkbeast> Except choppers for pax to oil rigs.
21:51:16  <drac_boy> russiaplanes for me because of two considerations that I've found most other grfs to be missing out on
21:51:22  <drac_boy> :)
21:51:33  <Pinkbeast> Hm?
21:51:44  <drac_boy> one: actual cargo planes
21:52:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24084 /tags/fools/: -Release: the April fools release
21:53:15  <drac_boy> lol, not april 1 yet for another 6 hours here :)
21:53:48  <Rubidium> you live in the wrong time zone
21:53:55  <drac_boy> or maybe you do :p
21:54:38  <drac_boy> pinkbeast mind you I do actually fly my cargos once in a while mainly due to difficult terrains for land transport otherwise
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22:25:01  <Terkhen> good night
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22:52:30  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:52:53  <drac_boy> hi
22:53:26  <drac_boy> just wondering but how do you make sure that the original vehicles doesn't load at all especially if multigrf was enabled?
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23:09:37  <xQR> planetmaker the "full changelog" link at the news post doesn't work ^^
23:13:37  <xQR> it has a " or %22 at the end
23:24:00  <drac_boy> hmm 'railmotor' or 'railcar' ... sometimes I hate multiply english terms
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23:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> that was weird...
23:50:58  <drac_boy> what was? :-/
23:51:06  <Eddi|zuHause> my internet disappeared
23:51:18  <drac_boy> ic :-|
23:51:24  <drac_boy> well you're here now
23:51:28  <Eddi|zuHause> but there was no actual error.
23:51:35  <Eddi|zuHause> modem synced
23:51:39  <Eddi|zuHause> lan connected
23:51:43  <Eddi|zuHause> everything normal
23:52:37  <__ln__> but is this the same internet you were disconnected from?!
23:53:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. i hope :p
23:53:30  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they replaced the internet with a fake one meanwhile
23:54:02  <__ln__> yes, that happens all the time yet people rarely come back to tell about it
23:54:22  <drac_boy> :)

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