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00:00:19 <Rhamphoryncus> The game reverses for you. What you need to do is cheat the graphics to *undo* the reverse and make it look like it's backwards 00:00:51 <Rhamphoryncus> one set does this 00:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: that horribly fails as soon as you have vehicles of different length 00:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: or vehicles from different grfs 00:01:17 <Rhamphoryncus> of course 00:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and that's why i said i do not want this 00:12:22 *** mal2__ [~mal2@port-92-206-153-51.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:12:30 <drac_boy> just wondering about this but does the cargo payment rate like plateau at some point above zero no matter how many days its even been? 00:19:26 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-039-033.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:42:49 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 00:45:08 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:47:45 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:47:45 *** Zeknurn is now known as Zeknurn` 00:54:00 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:01:30 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-170-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:02:07 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:03:30 <Rhamphoryncus> drac_boy: google for "openttd game mechanics" 01:14:41 *** teggi [teggi@215.185.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [] 01:26:15 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1177643171.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 01:36:28 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:7886:c67f:5cc:2a4f] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:40:50 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:31 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 01:51:13 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has 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Pikka: bon jour 06:35:57 <Pikka> mornig andy 06:36:06 <andythenorth> probably not for you :) 06:37:07 <Pikka> nope 06:44:01 <andythenorth> Dan redrew the Puffer a bit :) 06:47:09 <Pikka> cool :) 06:47:18 <Pikka> btw, do I need to put scrap in TaI? 06:47:31 <Pikka> otherwise your scrap wagon will never be available ;) 06:48:09 <andythenorth> up to you :) 06:48:26 <oskari89> Pikka: I think that is good idea, maybe in form of scrap metal ;) 06:48:49 <oskari89> FTS has Obrk and Elo-t wagons for scrap metal :) 06:48:57 <andythenorth> if you're rivet counting a-little-bit-but-not- too-much, they're similar to coal boxes as well :P 06:49:04 <Pikka> true 06:49:11 <Pikka> but that would mean I need to put coal loads in them 06:49:14 <Pikka> and I was too lazy 06:49:28 <Pikka> also presumably other loads 06:49:30 <andythenorth> just add scrap then :P 06:49:41 <Pikka> hmm 06:49:45 <Pikka> where does scrap come from 06:49:51 <Pikka> how is babby formed? 06:50:01 <oskari89> http://oskari89.1g.fi/kuvat/FTRS/Wagons/Obrk/DSC_0235.JPG 06:50:16 <oskari89> Scrap metal comes from scrap yards :) 06:50:23 <oskari89> As in that case. 06:50:26 <andythenorth> from eels 06:50:30 <andythenorth> in both cases 06:50:47 <Pikka> unfortunately there are no eels in TaI 06:51:26 <andythenorth> does pikkawiki have a list of what there is? 06:51:33 <Pikka> nope, don't think so 06:52:11 <andythenorth> ach 06:52:13 <Pikka> anyway, junkyards? accepts nothing, produce scrap metal? 06:52:20 <andythenorth> pretty much 06:52:21 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-15-184.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 06:52:29 <Pikka> accepts robert lewellyn, produces TV shows 06:52:41 <andythenorth> also that 06:52:59 <andythenorth> scrap in FIRS 06:53:03 <andythenorth> the label kept changing :P 06:53:05 <andythenorth> silly FIRS 06:53:08 <Pikka> it seems like adding coal loads to the wagon would be less work :) 06:53:10 <Pikka> yes 06:53:16 <Pikka> I have changed the label in UKRS to the new one 06:53:19 <Pikka> fwiw 06:53:41 <andythenorth> SCMT is the label-du-jour 06:53:41 <oskari89> FIRS changed scrap metal to scrap? :O 06:53:45 <oskari89> Noooo.... 06:54:00 <andythenorth> scrap / scrap metal /s 06:54:16 <andythenorth> or whatever your translator thought it should be ;) 06:54:46 <Pikka> eels 06:54:57 <oskari89> Why, scrap metal is just good what it was on FIRS 0.7.1. 06:55:29 <oskari89> Scrap could be separate from that :P 06:56:13 <Pikka> hmm 06:56:31 <Pikka> turns out that the tube trains in UKRS2+ always use "real" colours, even if the parameter isn' 06:56:33 <Pikka> t set 06:56:41 <Pikka> and I don't remember if that's deliberate :) 06:56:53 <Pikka> it is now! 06:57:14 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-119-69.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:00:25 <andythenorth> right 07:00:28 <andythenorth> time for toil 07:00:37 <andythenorth> at least I like my toil :P 07:00:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has 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[~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: .] 08:31:56 <dedomraz> hi, is there a way to add freshly downloaded newGRF sets to already started game? 08:33:53 <dedomraz> ok, i got it.. the answer is no :] 08:36:32 <V453000> dedomraz: scenario_developer = true in [gui] ... but please do not make any bug reports or complain if you break your savegame with changed newGRFs 08:37:09 <V453000> it is possible to add them mostly, sometimes even remove. Depends on the newGRF, try ;) 08:37:14 <V453000> but make a backup 08:45:51 <MNIM> baaack it the fuck up, indeed. 08:47:35 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 08:48:31 <MNIM> it takes a bit of messing around, though. 08:57:48 *** Pikka_ [~chatzilla@d58-111-69-99.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:59:29 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-002-076.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:03:49 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-69-99.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:04:01 *** Pikka_ is now known as Pikka 09:07:40 <planetmaker> removing nearly never is a good idea 09:08:54 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:09:14 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 09:09:16 <dedomraz> V453000: \o/ thanks a lot... dun worry, just wanted to try something... 09:11:31 *** mal2 [~mal2@z529a.pia.fu-berlin.de] has joined #openttd 09:20:21 <dedomraz> yay! the game survived it.. just applied some newer versions and new train/vehicle sets... 09:24:36 <dedomraz> thanks a lot, bye 09:24:40 *** dedomraz [~dedomraz@muff.zlo.sk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:25:26 *** mal2 [~mal2@z529a.pia.fu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:30:08 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:32:34 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1177643171.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 09:32:37 <drac_boy> hi 09:38:25 <V453000> recompiling a newgrf which is loaded in the game doesnt always bring the best results either xD 09:39:52 <drac_boy> heh what you trying to do anyway? 09:40:51 <V453000> just drawing sprites and compiling them right away when having the newgrf open in the game 09:41:14 <drac_boy> ah heh...what grf? 09:41:28 <V453000> my newgrf ... nuts unrealistic train set 09:41:37 <V453000> version 0.0.7 on bananas now 09:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Connery or Moore? 09:43:00 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 09:43:02 <V453000> beer 09:45:00 <drac_boy> oh is that the one with the funny locomotives including the boxy LOGIC ones? 09:45:54 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.137.63] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:49:28 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-195-219-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 09:51:39 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@115.128.11.209] has joined #openttd 09:52:45 <V453000> drac_boy: yes that one ... I believe it isnt just and only funny locomotives though :) 10:00:50 <drac_boy> what made you think of it in the first place tho? :) 10:04:35 <drac_boy> or not too sure? :p 10:04:50 <V453000> hm? :) 10:04:54 <V453000> what do you mean? 10:06:08 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-195-219-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 10:07:57 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.137.63] has joined #openttd 10:08:55 <drac_boy> what made you think of that crazy trainset? :p 10:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> he saw everybody making realistic train sets, and wanted to do the exact opposite :) 10:15:25 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@85.151.142.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:16:59 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:17:10 *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest155 10:17:17 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has joined #openttd 10:17:20 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 10:17:31 *** Guest155 [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:17:36 <drac_boy> well the Bloodwork one makes me thinking it should have red splatters on it but..I guess that may offend some people tho :p 10:19:18 <drac_boy> V453000 just wondering, these multi-coloured ones that look like 2-car sets ... are they only for pax? 10:20:47 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:20:54 <V453000> sort of as Eddi said. I think it is a shame when nobody bases a train set on train stats and on how it works ... so I did. The weird trains are there ... just cause my imagination brought me to that 10:21:45 <V453000> multi coloured you mean the monorail mentally disturbed class? 10:22:13 <drac_boy> no the ones like eg Mind Machine 10:22:21 <V453000> ah 10:22:31 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Mornig 10:22:33 <V453000> yes, local class - passenger/mail/gold/valuables/diamonds only 10:22:46 <FLHerne> *Morning, even :P 10:24:22 <drac_boy> V453000 heh ok 10:24:24 <drac_boy> hi FLHerne 10:24:57 <drac_boy> V453000 you want to know what you could add for one more wagon if you still have room? :) 10:27:29 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:28:26 <V453000> guess I dont 10:30:05 <drac_boy> Blackhole Matter Container :p ... could be something for all cargos with absolutely no cap on it :) 10:30:13 <drac_boy> not sure if thats going a bit too far tho :) 10:30:38 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [] 10:30:51 <drac_boy> how're you FLHerne? 10:31:18 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Ok, thanks. You? 10:31:30 <drac_boy> ok for now, at least theres nothing for most of the day now 10:32:03 <V453000> yes that is... a step away I would say shortly :p 10:38:18 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:39:08 <Rhamphoryncus> drac_boy: just have to tweak the load time so it takes *forever* to get anything out ;) 10:39:24 <V453000> lol 10:43:06 <drac_boy> Rhamphoryncus thats too funny :p 10:44:28 <Rhamphoryncus> Something like a space compression field is not entirely implausible.. so long as unlike hollywood you don't quietly forget that mass is retained 10:45:20 <drac_boy> Mary Poppins? :) 10:45:28 <drac_boy> she pulled a floor lamp out of her bag 10:45:39 <drac_boy> although I guess thats probably technically hammerspace 10:46:29 <Eddi|zuHause> more like the movies where miniaturized humans get injected into somebody's blood 10:46:42 <drac_boy> heh 10:48:37 <Rhamphoryncus> A 300 pound man compressed to 1 mm³ would do bad things to the ground, nevermind your body 10:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> where outside america do you find 300 pound men? :p 10:50:14 <drac_boy> where they play sumo games? :) 10:51:55 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B73434.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:54:31 <Rhamphoryncus> If my math is right.. a little over 1 TPa. Enough to go through diamond 10:55:44 <Rhamphoryncus> Oh, and that's assuming they spread their pressure evenly over 1 mm³.. 10:55:52 <Rhamphoryncus> err 1 mm² 10:58:35 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:00:08 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B73434.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:01:48 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0eced.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:06:23 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 11:10:36 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:18:52 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-19-75.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:18:55 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 11:24:07 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p5DC6726E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:24:45 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-118-167.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:34:24 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p5DC6726E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 11:41:53 <FLHerne> Could someone who knows more about how the game works help me with a patching issue? (again) 11:49:04 <Rhamphoryncus> What's up? 11:50:33 <FLHerne> Assertion fails again...settings_gui.cpp, line 1039 r23000 11:50:44 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 11:50:50 <FLHerne> I bumped a patch from r22731, but I can't see what changed 11:50:56 <DanMacK> Hey all 11:51:26 <drac_boy> hi danmack 11:51:45 <FLHerne> Rhamphoryncus: Sorry, found it :-( 11:51:57 <Rhamphoryncus> s'all good 11:53:02 <FLHerne> Someone should write a program that automatically detects what a patch does, then modifies current trunk to do the same thing :P 11:54:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6726E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:55:10 <Rhamphoryncus> Alan turing just rolled over in his grave 11:55:52 <drac_boy> heh 11:57:03 <FLHerne> A compiler that didn't redo a whole file just for a change in one line would be nice, too. 11:57:11 <FLHerne> Might not work, though :P 11:57:38 <Rhamphoryncus> heh 11:58:07 <Rhamphoryncus> There's been some work in that direction, but it's never 100% effective 11:59:25 * Rhamphoryncus ponders it 11:59:46 <FLHerne> Semi-colon-eating monster repellent, too... 12:00:25 <Rhamphoryncus> That's easy to solve. 12:04:43 *** Achilleshiel [wouterh@chat-utelscin.scintilla.utwente.nl] has quit [Quit: win] 12:05:10 *** wouterh [wouterh@chat-utelscin.scintilla.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 12:07:52 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 12:24:16 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-89-240.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:29:13 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-15-184.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:34:47 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-69-99.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: i can do one-line changes in openttd that potentially affect all other lines 12:40:57 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: <FLHerne: Might not work, though :P> 12:43:40 <Rhamphoryncus> And "never 100% effective" 12:44:02 <Rhamphoryncus> I can think of ways to get a lot closer.. but meh, this isn't a language design channel 12:45:03 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 12:50:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could make a preprocessor that e.g. splits the source into smaller compile-units (e.g. single functions), and then make a diff-based approach to determine which functions need recompiling 12:50:40 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09ee84.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 12:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> (i.e. you diff the preprocessor output with the last preprocessor output) 12:51:57 <Eddi|zuHause> but the semantical effort you need to put in there may make it worthless, because just compiling the whole thing will be faster 12:57:48 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: .] 12:59:32 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm not thinking strictly C 13:02:42 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:04:55 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 13:15:46 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-151.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:23:28 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1177643171.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 13:30:52 *** joshuag [56a90aa0@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 13:31:57 *** joshuag [56a90aa0@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 13:37:30 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@85.151.142.17] has joined #openttd 13:48:42 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:49:57 *** goodger [~ben@94-30-43-248.xdsl.murphx.net] has joined #openttd 13:51:34 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.92] has joined #openttd 13:58:28 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.76.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:00:55 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.76.92] has joined #openttd 14:04:27 <Rhamphoryncus> planetmaker: First step at improving the UI, without changing functionality: http://i.imgur.com/VPPX6.png 14:06:38 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:16:36 <planetmaker> hm, what is actually new, Rhamphoryncus? 14:16:58 <Rhamphoryncus> That's a good sign ;) 14:17:07 <Rhamphoryncus> No accept/rating button. It's one screen 14:17:29 <Rhamphoryncus> And the right size, but I could do that with the existing window 14:18:08 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1177643171.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 14:18:08 <planetmaker> hm, ah :-) Yes, it's a good sign 14:18:09 <drac_boy> hi 14:18:32 <planetmaker> The problem with this layout probably is, if you transport the whole range of ECS or FIRS cargos 14:18:37 <planetmaker> it gets very lengthy 14:18:50 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:18:54 <drac_boy> layout? 14:19:02 <planetmaker> Though it might not be a real issue. It just needs auto-resize of the station view window then 14:19:12 <Rhamphoryncus> It does 14:19:22 <Rhamphoryncus> Notice those windows are different size? 14:19:37 <planetmaker> I didn't :-P 14:19:54 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 14:19:56 <planetmaker> but yes 14:19:59 <Rhamphoryncus> I've tested with up to 4 cargos supplied. Had to cook it up as I couldn't find a save with more than 2 *g* 14:20:28 <planetmaker> I'm sure we have some coop game with a distribution hub which has many 14:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: probably should add a scroll bar if more than 3 14:21:09 <planetmaker> maybe an idea. Though 3 is not much 14:21:23 <planetmaker> but that number or the max size can be easily adjusted once it's there 14:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> alternatively: put the rating next to the waiting number 14:21:44 <Rhamphoryncus> When I have that window open I want to see the ratings, which the current code has at a fixed height of of 12 types 14:21:56 * drac_boy thinks I'm maybe a bit lost now :-s 14:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and have just lists in the supply/accept field 14:22:09 <Rhamphoryncus> Eddi|zuHause: that'd be nice, but very different 14:22:30 <Rhamphoryncus> It'd require horizontal expansion 14:23:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: for a simple string "81 Passengers (67% - Very good)"? 14:24:15 <Rhamphoryncus> one moment, I'll make a screenshot 14:31:13 * Rhamphoryncus kicks gimp in the nards 14:31:51 <drac_boy> heh 14:33:44 <Rhamphoryncus> It has the tools to do what I want quickly and easily. They don't *work*, but it has them. 14:35:26 <Rhamphoryncus> Okay, making progress again 14:36:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:36:50 <drac_boy> hi andythenorth 14:36:51 <andythenorth> DanMacK: o/ 14:38:31 <Rhamphoryncus> Putting way too much effort into this :D 14:40:43 *** thphwh [5c0938d9@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:41:05 <drac_boy> andythenorth hows your grf work going btw? 14:41:13 <andythenorth> stopped 14:41:57 <DanMacK> Hey Andy 14:42:10 *** thphwh [5c0938d9@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] 14:42:40 <drac_boy> ah ok 14:42:51 <drac_boy> was wondering how long you couldn't be sane for :p 14:43:53 <Rhamphoryncus> http://i.imgur.com/Acn73.png 14:45:08 <Rhamphoryncus> I think you're right though, at least if the descriptive "very good" is removed 14:45:20 <Rhamphoryncus> Maybe a little bit wider, but not a lot 14:45:31 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:45:47 <drac_boy> hmm I see what you mean now 14:45:54 <drac_boy> only one question is, could it be optional? 14:46:20 <Rhamphoryncus> Optional is a copout 14:46:33 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus: I like the more compact right version 14:46:50 <planetmaker> maybe (mediocre, 45%) 14:46:57 <planetmaker> instead of mediocre (45%) 14:47:01 <drac_boy> sorry Rhamphoryncus I meant for the right window..not both 14:47:20 <Rhamphoryncus> *nod* the punctuation is easy to change 14:47:28 <drac_boy> unless the window can shrink to a shorter width without losing the white label readability 14:47:36 <Rhamphoryncus> But the left shows 12 wood icons. The right only shows 3. 14:48:25 <Rhamphoryncus> I think (45%) would work 14:48:33 <oskari89> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwModZmOzDs 14:50:45 <Rhamphoryncus> I don't want to lose the text, it's.. descriptive.. but it's the least important bit of information 14:51:17 <drac_boy> actually I never cared for the icons too much but mm 14:52:25 <Rhamphoryncus> They provide a quick visual indicator of both the type and quantity 14:53:02 <drac_boy> can't read that 3000+ is too many .. and thats its wood? 14:54:33 <Rhamphoryncus> In a healthy station it never exceeds the 12 14:54:38 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@115.128.11.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:05:53 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:29 <drac_boy> afk 15:08:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: maybe move the text one line below the icons? 15:08:56 <Rhamphoryncus> possibly 15:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and then include a stationlist-style icon as well (short name with two bars below it) 15:14:53 <Rhamphoryncus> huh? 15:18:51 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-12-90.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:21:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: on the station list you get a small icon containing the "short name" (e.g. "PA" for passengers), a bar indicating the waiting amount, and a bar indicating the rating 15:22:04 <Rhamphoryncus> ah 15:22:23 <Rhamphoryncus> Well I have to lean in close to read that, so.. 15:22:54 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, but i always wondered why that was the only place this was used 15:23:30 <Rhamphoryncus> It's a good idea but just too small 15:26:32 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe time to review the style of that icon :) 15:28:42 <Rhamphoryncus> Maybe later. Hopefully this will turn into a series of UI tweaks that make openttd friendlier to touch screens, as well as desktops. Much of that will involve increasing the size 15:32:05 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 15:34:38 <drac_boy> back 15:42:00 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:54:03 * Rhamphoryncus kicks gimp in the nards again 15:54:23 <Rhamphoryncus> hit ctrl-z to undo a change.. and it stuck, undoing 30 changes 15:55:14 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 15:55:41 <TinoDidriksen> So, just Redo until you get where you wanted to be. 15:57:06 <Rhamphoryncus> I didn't hit the button too quickly.. somehow I got most but not all back 16:02:02 <Rhamphoryncus> http://i.imgur.com/NG3BO.png 16:03:04 <Rhamphoryncus> The reason I did it that way was for when transfers are expanded.. but I don't like it 16:04:21 <Rhamphoryncus> Maybe a horizontal flip, so the cargo icons are at the right and the text is at the left.. 16:04:32 <drac_boy> hmm only one small issue I could see would be that some people normally assume that eg the 2% would apply to wood rather than milk .. that is if they weren't looking at the top of the scroll 16:06:18 *** OfficialRyan [568d8846@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:06:37 <OfficialRyan> Hi, is anyone actually online? 16:08:40 <OfficialRyan> no-one at all? 16:08:42 <TinoDidriksen> OfficialRyan, yes... 16:09:18 <drac_boy> Rhamphoryncus what if you tried do it as just 'wood' for first line followed by '170 tonnes waiting (good 78%)'? 16:09:20 <TinoDidriksen> You can't wait just 2 minutes and declare a place dead. Even channels with 700 users can be quiet for over an hour. 16:09:30 <OfficialRyan> well, no-one is answering... 16:09:42 <drac_boy> answering != quiet 16:09:42 <OfficialRyan> Anyways. May I ask a question? 16:09:50 <TinoDidriksen> Just ask. 16:10:00 <TinoDidriksen> Don't wait for anyone to say they're there... 16:10:04 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:10:21 <OfficialRyan> How do I create a 'drive-thru' train station? 16:10:48 <Rhamphoryncus> drac_boy: yeah, that 2% applying to up vs down is a problem 16:12:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 16:13:21 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 16:13:39 <DanMacK> that was fun 16:13:48 <drac_boy> what was? :) 16:13:56 <DanMacK> my disconnect 16:14:13 <drac_boy> heh 16:14:37 <DanMacK> Andy disappeared as well while I was DC'd apparently 16:15:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19406.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:17:07 <drac_boy> I'm going for lunch anyway 16:17:14 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1177643171.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 16:17:33 <teggi> any "cheat"/patch to avoid the slowing down of trains in slopes? 16:17:45 <teggi> couldn't find anything in the settings, but i might've missed it :p 16:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause> use a different acceleration model? 16:24:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.176.0] has joined #openttd 16:26:19 <teggi> wat 16:26:37 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@85.151.142.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:29:49 <FLHerne> teggi: Advanced Settings - Vehicles - Trains - Acceleration model [original]/[realistic] 16:30:01 <FLHerne> Something like that, anyway 16:31:05 <FLHerne> IIRC, original has a high penalty for slopes, realistic affects slopes less but causes trains to slow down more on corners 16:31:39 <ccfreak2k> Original has an obscene penalty for slopes. 16:32:13 *** Miguelzinho [~Miguelzin@201.77.177.82] has joined #openttd 16:33:38 <FLHerne> Any helpful devs? I bumped infra-sharing a bit more, but I've got another bug that I can't fix :-( 16:35:49 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-36-18.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:36:58 <Rhamphoryncus> FLHerne: Ask me again, I shall solve it like the last time 16:37:17 <FLHerne> ha :D 16:38:03 * oskari89 would like to see IS in trunk :) 16:38:21 <Rhamphoryncus> IS? 16:38:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:38:34 <FLHerne> Patch has this bit: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1317/ 16:38:41 <oskari89> Infrastructure sharing :P 16:38:49 <andythenorth> bah 16:38:54 * andythenorth added a ticket to CHIPS 16:39:02 <andythenorth> was trying to get the issue count to 0 :P 16:39:03 <DanMacK> WB Andy 16:39:17 <FLHerne> aircraft_cmd.cpp 16:39:37 <Rhamphoryncus> ahh 16:40:07 <FLHerne> but when applied to r23100, I get a compile error. Looked at the docs, I really don't get how it's meant to work :-( 16:40:09 <andythenorth> I have no good ideas for cargo waiting sprites for grain, wheat etc 16:40:49 <FLHerne> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1318/ 16:41:38 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:25 * andythenorth rejects the 'grain cargo' ticket 16:43:39 <andythenorth> I want at least one project with zero tickets :P 16:44:03 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 16:44:15 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:98cf:cedd:30b5:ed46] has joined #openttd 16:44:19 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:44:51 <andythenorth> anybody want to draw sugar beet cargo waiting sprites? 16:45:57 <Rhamphoryncus> I can try. They'll be hideous, but I can try :) 16:46:09 <andythenorth> try :) 16:46:13 <andythenorth> piles of beets waiting 16:46:23 <Rhamphoryncus> After I figure out FLHerne's issue 16:46:53 <FLHerne> :P 16:47:46 <andythenorth> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/chips/raw-file/04657637e29b/sprites/graphics/scrap_metal_cargo.png 16:47:52 <andythenorth> ^ scrap metal 16:48:00 <andythenorth> needs to be like that, but it won't heap the same 16:48:07 *** Bad_Brett [~Bad_Brett@90-227-32-82-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 16:48:10 <andythenorth> and colours are less oxide, more mud :P 16:48:34 <andythenorth> I have psds if that helps - repo here http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository 16:49:05 <andythenorth> DanMacK: drawn any sugar cane ever? 16:49:43 <Rhamphoryncus> OOooh, I thought you meant the icon in the station 16:50:25 <andythenorth> that's done :) 16:51:47 <Rhamphoryncus> FLHerne: it seems that ->dest can be the StationID if ->type == OT_GOTO_STATION 16:51:50 <andythenorth> beet piles 16:51:51 <andythenorth> http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=sugar+beet+pile&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=hlqIT46dMunE0QXz1MHJCQ&biw=1276&bih=648&sei=kVqIT5mqLaLH0QWqzIy5CQ 16:51:59 <andythenorth> cane piles http://www.highhopesgardens.com/Blogphotos/2008/canestockpile.jpg 16:52:17 <andythenorth> I cba to draw them, and will close the tickets if no-one else is interested :D 16:53:05 <Rhamphoryncus> Heh, well that rules out purple, hehe 16:53:44 <FLHerne> Rhamphoryncus: so how come it works in r23000 but not r23100? :-( 16:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause> use heybales, and make them slightly rounder? 16:55:16 <andythenorth> hmm 16:55:45 <andythenorth> FIRS has haybales 16:55:48 <andythenorth> they're quite yellow 16:57:37 <Eddi|zuHause> recolouring? :) 16:57:44 <NGC3982> irssi connectbot on the galaxy S2 is really refreshing. 16:58:00 <andythenorth> maybe I just close the tickets :P 16:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause> whoaaa my internet is sooooooooooo fast today 16:59:03 <andythenorth> anybody got a clue on this? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3343 16:59:33 <Rhamphoryncus> FLHerne: r23000 and r23100 are svn revision numbers? 17:00:21 <FLHerne> Yes 17:00:57 <FLHerne> The patch is for r22731, with some tweaking compiled on r23000 17:01:24 <Rhamphoryncus> I.. have no idea. Are you sure it was a full rebuild, not a make hickup? 17:02:09 <FLHerne> Yes, I checked out the source again, then repatched that (including alterations I made before) 17:04:25 <FLHerne> AARGH! 17:04:30 <andythenorth> anyone draw these? 17:04:31 <andythenorth> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~txecm/Photos/HistoricNotecards/CottonBales2.gif 17:04:45 <andythenorth> V453000: ? ^ 17:04:49 <FLHerne> Found it...stupid typos :-( 17:05:11 <FLHerne> Does IRC have a [facepalm] emote? 17:05:34 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:05:41 <Rhamphoryncus> I go with x_x 17:05:53 <SpComb> ¯\(º_o)/¯ 17:06:15 <Rhamphoryncus> Also.. called it. <Rhamphoryncus> FLHerne: Ask me again, I shall solve it like the last time 17:06:47 <FLHerne> Rhamphoryncus: :P Sorry to waste your time again...¯\(º_o)/¯ 17:07:06 <FLHerne> SpComb: Nice emote... 17:07:11 <Rhamphoryncus> Not at all. I've wasted my own time on far, far worse things XD 17:11:11 <FLHerne> Rhamphoryncus: It compiles! :D 17:11:19 <Rhamphoryncus> :D 17:12:55 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4dd9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:13:48 *** wouterh is now known as Achilleshiel 17:14:53 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:14:56 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:17:37 *** DabuYu [DoubleYou@128.250.79.185] has quit [] 17:19:14 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:27:48 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 17:28:06 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 17:35:12 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: is scrap metal the currently used sprite? 17:36:16 <Rhamphoryncus> The colouring is a lot like potatoes, so a quick substitution to brown gives decent results 17:37:42 <Rhamphoryncus> Although even better would be reshaped piles 17:40:35 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: yes, they need reshaping really 17:41:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24114 /trunk/src/lang/polish.txt: 17:41:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:41:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 15 changes by Kilian 17:43:50 <Rhamphoryncus> What are the different sprites for? Left vs right are track direction I assume. Why 6 levels though? 17:45:43 <andythenorth> 2 orientations 17:45:50 <andythenorth> 1 track tile, 1 non track tile 17:45:56 <andythenorth> 2 load states for each 17:46:12 <Rhamphoryncus> ooh track tile 17:46:56 <andythenorth> so row 1 is: angle 1 low amount, angle 1 high amount, angle 2 low amount, angle 2 high amount 17:47:16 <andythenorth> row 2 and 3 are the N / S sides of the track 17:47:43 <Rhamphoryncus> ahh, the two sides are separate then 17:47:57 <Rhamphoryncus> That covers it, thanks 17:49:13 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host86-154-36-18.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:51:38 <Rhamphoryncus> oooh wow I suck XD 17:54:12 <Alberth> evenink! 17:54:34 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: you should view as you have plenty of room for getting better ;) 17:54:41 <Rhamphoryncus> hehe 17:57:05 <andythenorth> drawing cargo piles is actually not the easiest place to start :P 17:57:14 <andythenorth> making them look good is a PITA 17:59:15 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host86-154-36-18.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:02:09 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host139-62-dynamic.252-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:02:27 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 18:02:31 <Wolf01> hello 18:02:42 <FLHerne> Bye everyone 18:02:48 <Alberth> bye 18:02:51 <andythenorth> did andythenorth mention newgrf smoke? 18:02:52 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 18:03:03 <andythenorth> DanMacK is painting more awesome steam ships 18:03:27 <Alberth> andy speaks with the wrong dev :p 18:04:08 <andythenorth> you weren't born a dev ;) 18:07:03 <Alberth> I play with computers and programming since I was 14 :) 18:07:53 <andythenorth> you could probably learn enough ottd code to patch smoke :P 18:08:44 <andythenorth> but anyway, I don't want to twist your arm ;) 18:09:19 <andythenorth> I think it's about 5-7 loc needed 18:09:35 * Alberth is happy that andy has so much confidence in me 18:10:20 <andythenorth> step 1: allow newgrf to return x/y/z to a smoke cb 18:10:32 <andythenorth> instead of setting y offs in a prop 18:10:39 <andythenorth> step 2: allow cb to be called n times 18:10:49 <Alberth> right, nothing much happened since my last openttd update :) 18:11:24 <andythenorth> unrelated patch: make ship smoke specific to ship acceleration 18:12:00 <Alberth> trains also have smoke trouble iirc 18:12:02 <andythenorth> or rather, untie it from acceleration, make it constant rate if moving 18:12:52 <andythenorth> the alternative is to make a rather complicated framework where newgrf can specify a (new) newgrf effect vehicle, and an animation rate etc 18:13:04 <andythenorth> which I dislike as overkill 18:13:19 <Alberth> may be faster 18:13:25 <andythenorth> unlikely 18:13:47 <andythenorth> we'd need a whole new class of newgrf object type 18:14:01 <andythenorth> which means extending newgrf format *and* all the authoring tools 18:14:06 <andythenorth> and writing an adequate spec 18:14:20 <andythenorth> teaching the tools about a new cb is not so hard 18:14:27 <Alberth> oh, I meant faster/cheaper in execution :p 18:14:34 <andythenorth> :) 18:14:35 <andythenorth> oops 18:15:45 <Alberth> source is too big, compiling takes forever :) 18:15:57 <andythenorth> get more cores :P 18:19:27 <Rhamphoryncus> Sun position? Straight east? 18:20:15 <andythenorth> SEE or SSE 18:20:20 <andythenorth> or SE 18:20:23 <andythenorth> but not E :) 18:20:24 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-89-240.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:20:46 <Rhamphoryncus> east being right side of the screen? 18:21:38 <andythenorth> yup 18:21:47 <andythenorth> light is basically 4-5pm on a conventional clock face 18:22:20 * Rhamphoryncus nods 18:25:03 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: .] 18:28:56 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-89-240.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:30:03 <Alberth> ieks, more 'IsPrimaryVehicle' functions :( 18:30:24 * andythenorth adventures into code 18:32:31 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host86-154-36-18.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:34:33 <andythenorth> ah 18:34:35 <andythenorth> vehicle.cpp 18:36:03 <andythenorth> gah 18:36:06 <ashb> i think /sb end 18:36:12 * andythenorth never quite gets C++ 18:40:28 <andythenorth> h,, 18:40:51 <andythenorth> } else if (v->type == VEH_SHIP) {CreateEffectVehicleRel(v, x, y, 10, EV_DIESEL_SMOKE);} 18:41:02 <andythenorth> ^ certainly increases the amount of smoke ships create :P 18:41:26 <andythenorth> might need a bit of random in there :P 18:41:34 <andythenorth> l2292 in vehicle.cpp 18:42:11 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host86-154-36-18.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:44:40 <andythenorth> hmm 18:44:51 <andythenorth> that shouldn't be an else if 18:45:14 <andythenorth> hmm 18:45:59 <andythenorth> Terkhen might like this patch idea :D 18:46:19 <andythenorth> it's related to acceleration and things :) 18:46:45 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.100.24] has joined #openttd 18:59:16 <Rhamphoryncus> Is Terkhen working on acceleration? 19:01:04 <andythenorth> nope 19:01:34 <Rhamphoryncus> aw 19:04:10 * Alberth is still at line 2111 19:04:17 <Rhamphoryncus> I realized part of the issue I have with hills is that a 5 tile train going up a single hill (set to 1%) is actually only 0.2%. It's over much too quickly. It should have a larger effect on the train 19:05:34 * andythenorth was hacking at the 'ships need constant smoke' aspect, which is a separate patch :) 19:05:50 <Rhamphoryncus> yeah, clearly ;) 19:06:30 <Alberth> change the percentage :) 19:07:31 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: the other part of the problem is jamming 19:08:47 <Terkhen> hello 19:09:01 <Terkhen> Rhamphoryncus: I already finished acceleration (for road vehicles) 19:09:08 <Terkhen> :P 19:09:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: yes. the full 3% only hit when the full train is on a slope... 19:09:15 <Rhamphoryncus> Terkhen: ahh, that's why he mentioned you 19:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause> which is a bit silly 19:09:44 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:10:08 <Rhamphoryncus> Eddi|zuHause: yeah 19:10:38 <Eddi|zuHause> similar to curve speed, which also depends on train length, this needs a clever idea... 19:10:38 <Terkhen> I wanted to call it "improved", not realistic :P 19:10:43 <Terkhen> but... hysterical raisins 19:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: lots of things missing from "realistic" acceleration 19:11:32 <Terkhen> maybe "somewhat satisfying acceleration, that takes into account a few factors" would be a better name 19:11:41 <andythenorth> Terkhen: can I persuade you to a patch? 19:11:48 <Terkhen> depends, which one? 19:11:55 <Rhamphoryncus> My goal is to have different engines suitable in different cases. That means being impossible to jam at lower power ratings (with reasonable choices) and having low speed high power engines be *faster* in hilly regions than high speed lower power engines 19:12:29 <Terkhen> Rhamphoryncus: that should be happening already with high slope % 19:12:38 <Terkhen> at least to some degree 19:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: just hack out the averaging over the train length, or increase the % 19:13:00 <Rhamphoryncus> Not in my experience 19:13:11 <andythenorth> Terkhen make ships emit smoke (effect vehicle) constantly (with a random interval delay) - there's a switch at l2246 in vehicle.cpp 19:13:16 <Rhamphoryncus> If I crank things up enough I just get jams 19:13:46 <Terkhen> andythenorth: sounds somewhat boring :P 19:14:05 <andythenorth> it's a nice small patch ;) 19:14:07 <Terkhen> Rhamphoryncus: what changes would you suggest? making simple changes to the acceleration model is quite simple 19:14:38 <Rhamphoryncus> Terkhen: I'm not sure yet. :/ 19:14:58 <Terkhen> checking that different models make the game slower is harder :P 19:15:14 <Terkhen> are you comfortable with compiling? 19:15:36 * Rhamphoryncus looks at the bajillion terminals he has open 19:15:38 <Rhamphoryncus> yes? 19:15:52 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:16:19 <Terkhen> the acceleration formulas are located only in two places and they are simple to change 19:16:30 <Terkhen> I can point you to them if you are willing to experiment a bit 19:17:10 <Rhamphoryncus> sure. Probably won't today but in the future perhaps 19:17:14 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 19:17:17 <Terkhen> let me see... 19:20:14 <Terkhen> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/ground_vehicle.cpp <--- PowerChanged handles power and tractive effort, CargoChanged handles weight, and GetAcceleration calculates the actual movement given power, cargo, and current slope/speed 19:20:29 * Rhamphoryncus nods 19:21:51 <Terkhen> there might be other details lying around, but most of the stuff is done there, and it will affect both road vehicles and trains 19:26:52 <Rhamphoryncus> and GetSlopeResistance being in the header 19:29:01 <Terkhen> yes, vehicle specific values are in each header :) 19:29:39 <Rhamphoryncus> Just the one in that case 19:30:43 <Rhamphoryncus> What I have in my map is an up, a flat, an up, 4 flat, and an up. I would call that moderately hilly 19:33:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 19:36:33 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest202 19:36:39 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-129-125-202.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:40:49 <Terkhen> I did my RV tests with flat, 2, flat, 4, flat, 15, and then a lot of different curves 19:41:14 <Terkhen> the 15 is to avoid the notorious 1 km/h bug 19:42:26 *** Guest202 [~chatzilla@host86-154-36-18.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:45:21 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-151.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:50:38 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-165-58.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:51:56 <Rhamphoryncus> 1 km/h bug meaning jams? 19:52:15 <Rhamphoryncus> If a train gets stopped it never gets going again? 19:52:44 <Alberth> trains have a minimal speed of 1km/h, unless stopped 19:53:15 <Alberth> but it's a tad sllllooooooooooooowww to travel to a depot that way :) 19:53:45 <Rhamphoryncus> yes, and if you're using a grasshopper and it jams on a slope then I'm just going to laugh at you. Or more likely myself *g* 19:53:47 <oskari89> I had once 1 km/h bugs with 40 tile length trains.. 19:54:42 <Alberth> oh, it's much easier, a steep hill and some loaded coal wagons do the trick quite well :) 19:55:43 <Rhamphoryncus> But right now.. 10% slope, 5 tile train on the flat/flat/1/flat/1 and if I stop it takes quite a while to start moving 19:55:55 <oskari89> I have CC's patchpack demo scenario.. 19:56:13 <oskari89> It has 13 km tall mountain with city on top.. 19:56:14 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: perhaps you are moving in the wrong direction ;p 19:56:20 <Rhamphoryncus> The same trains drop from 180 to 160 if they don't get stopped 19:56:31 <Rhamphoryncus> me throws peanuts at Alberth 19:56:32 <oskari89> And 64 length stations on top and bottom, and trains... 19:57:03 * Alberth catches them and eats some 19:57:17 <oskari89> Nice to see that when train goes downhill, it can't be stopped unless next signal shows red :) 19:58:21 <Rhamphoryncus> I might try treating deceleration as much more rapid than acceleration 19:58:28 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: nicely realistic, where getting up to speed is also the main problem 19:58:40 <Rhamphoryncus> realistic != fun 19:59:12 <Alberth> perhaps, but it does make you think what engine(s) to use 19:59:18 <Rhamphoryncus> And only realistic in isolation anyway 19:59:50 <Rhamphoryncus> No? 99% of the time they never slow enough to matter 20:00:52 *** OfficialRyan [568d8846@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:01:51 <Rhamphoryncus> You never pick engines for efficiency, ie average speed on that line. You'd only pick them to avoid jams 20:03:11 <Alberth> I pick them on reliability, and then speed 20:03:50 <Alberth> but I play OpenGFX+ sets and with breakdowns enabled, so not a typical OpenTTD player :) 20:11:06 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:12:33 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 20:13:16 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-129-125-202.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120403211507]] 20:14:28 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:16:03 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-215-68-135.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has left #openttd [] 20:18:27 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-129-125-202.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:23:15 <Terkhen> Rhamphoryncus: sorry, I was AFK... the 1 km/h limit is enforced to avoid incorrectly defined NewGRF road vehicles to stop completely when you switch from original to realistic 20:23:21 <Terkhen> but it is still too annoying 20:23:42 <Terkhen> I had to make sure that none of the default RVs had that problem on slopes 20:23:43 <Rhamphoryncus> Ahh, like horses that have 0 HP 20:23:56 <Terkhen> yes, exactly 20:24:34 <Rhamphoryncus> A corner case so you can at least get them back into the depot eventually. Which I've had to do. Thanks for putting it in there :) 20:24:48 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.14.252.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 20:24:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19406.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:58 <Rhamphoryncus> I've since learned to turn off realistic acceleration if I'm using horses 20:26:09 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable085.125-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 20:26:11 <drac_boy> hi 20:27:04 <Terkhen> hi drac_boy 20:27:29 <Terkhen> Rhamphoryncus: eGRVTS has a beta with correct realistic acceleration values, but to my knowledge it is not being worked on 20:28:32 <Rhamphoryncus> On slopes again: a "heavy freight" engine may give you 10% more TE. Adding a second engine would double it. Merging two or three trains into one longer train would give you double or triple. Altering the signal alignment, which alters the weight distribution of engine vs cargo when the train does stop, is probably around 10% 20:29:57 <Rhamphoryncus> On a TL5 adding or removing 1 car is around 10% 20:30:22 <drac_boy> Rhamphoryncus I always wondered if it was plausible to make a grf that had a cap on how much total tractive a single train could have but just can't bother looking into it just yet tho 20:31:03 <Rhamphoryncus> drac_boy: sure, but that's just stabbing the player in the back. You can also limit total train length 20:31:43 <Rhamphoryncus> drac_boy: If you want to encourage different engines then make the TE sweep be a 2x difference, not 10% 20:31:50 <drac_boy> Rhamphoryncus well I was just thinking about these cases where the 'real life' couplers or other factors are a limit 20:32:06 <Rhamphoryncus> Ahh 20:32:17 <Terkhen> you can handle that kind of consist dependent limits via callbacks 20:32:23 <drac_boy> eg some cases I know of with heavy drag freight electrics was that one could run at 100% but two together only could run at 80% each ... and you weren't allowed a third 20:32:47 <Rhamphoryncus> The line only has so much power? 20:33:21 *** Miguelzinho [~Miguelzin@201.77.177.82] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:33:26 <drac_boy> Rhamphoryncus no it was just a matter of 410kN being fine .. but 820kN would had probably broke couplers left and right .. so it was limited to <800kN when doubleheaded 20:33:36 <Rhamphoryncus> ah 20:33:47 <Rhamphoryncus> Well, that has various workarounds depending on the era 20:34:11 <drac_boy> I thought it was probably too much trouble to effect into a grf so up to now I still haven't looked much into it :) 20:34:18 <drac_boy> but still its a thought nevertheless 20:34:57 <Rhamphoryncus> Coupler designs changed, you can put the second engine at the back (but that has communication difficulties), these days the communication can be fully automated which gives you the mammoth trains 20:35:01 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:35:42 <Rhamphoryncus> Technologically it's conceivable today to build a train that wraps the planet. 20:36:34 <drac_boy> heh yeah 20:36:42 <drac_boy> mind you some of the early attempts in usa were interesting 20:37:03 * Rhamphoryncus really hopes he does a train set some day 20:37:48 <drac_boy> Southern Railway for example took a radio control wagon and couple it to between one to three standard locomotives mid-train .. and it worked for its time. was a lot less costly that refitting each locomotive individually 20:38:23 <drac_boy> sometimes other railroads even just gutted an old carbody B unit that they didn't have a use for .. and put the electricals+radio in that 20:38:29 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, that built on direct slaving. Locomotive is connected directly to another. 20:39:31 <drac_boy> mind you its very rare but there can be odd tripups or accidents with remote locomotives 20:39:41 <Rhamphoryncus> I bet 20:40:06 <drac_boy> I remember one story where an UP train had stopped for a signal then it started up...only (as fbi eventually suspected) someone closed the hoses and dropped the coupler ahead of the mid-train slave unit... 20:40:44 <drac_boy> and since the front part was a bit lighter than the rear ... you had a "ghost" train .. it was following the actual one for a while till someone finally figued out what was happening and told the crew to plug it up (which also plugged the brakes on the remote unit too) 20:41:01 <Rhamphoryncus> heh 20:41:13 <drac_boy> still..it could had been a lot more serious tho :-s 20:41:20 <Rhamphoryncus> Oh yeah 20:41:49 <Rhamphoryncus> Whole thing sounds like a giant bodge, but nobody ever asked my opinion ;) 20:42:14 <drac_boy> one of the hardest thing with remote units is that you don't know how well they're operating tho.... 20:43:44 <drac_boy> eg one story was of a 2+1 locomotive train .. photographer noticed that as the train accerlated after a caution signal the lone mid unit was throwing up a lot of black smoke everywhere from a failed turbine ... photographer questioned if the engineer must have later complained about lack of power 20:43:49 <frosch123> yay, bug reports in the form of videos :) 20:44:01 <drac_boy> if the third locomotive had been up front .. it would had been obvious, go figure 20:44:27 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:33 <Rhamphoryncus> Sounds like little to no feedback from various sensors. Possibly the sensors don't exist. 20:44:53 <drac_boy> well this was the early days... so they probably didn't have good 2-way slave controls yet :) 20:45:16 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, mesmerized simply that they could do it at all 20:45:36 <drac_boy> the original FRED had no braking capacity I think .. but eventually they did add one in after all 20:45:57 <Rhamphoryncus> A good remote car starter today is probably more advanced 20:46:14 <drac_boy> Rhamphoryncus there are always a lot of stories about early tech working when you didn't think they would :) or other things like that 20:46:40 <drac_boy> and btw years ago noone would give a second thought to smoking a cigarette while inspecting a turbine locomotive .... heh! 20:46:50 <Rhamphoryncus> heh 20:47:17 <drac_boy> now .. well .. don't bother trying it .. you might get slapped by that overwhelming "safety board" on the same day 20:47:22 <drac_boy> such are things :-| 20:47:24 <Rubidium> frosch123: and it isn't even a bug ;) 20:48:32 <frosch123> the income could be displayed directly after flooding 20:48:51 <frosch123> but, likely not worth the effort :) 20:48:54 <drac_boy> Rhamphoryncus if you could start one btw what kind of train grf would you probably had first thought about looking into? 20:55:13 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.137.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:58:15 *** Maarten_ [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 20:58:24 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:02:17 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:08:55 <drac_boy> hmm have anyone ever seen locomotives listed by tons rather than kN or lbs for tractive? 21:11:18 * drac_boy can't figure out how to convert :s 21:15:51 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-12-90.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:18:42 <drac_boy> guess I'll just have to write down the ton number for now and get the actual number later 21:19:22 <Rhamphoryncus> this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonne#Unit_of_force 21:21:30 <drac_boy> oh tonne-force no wonder I couldn't get any luck from the wiki search before 21:21:37 <drac_boy> thanks, thats helping a lot 21:25:11 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 21:25:33 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:27:31 <Wolf01> 'night 21:27:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host139-62-dynamic.252-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:31:55 <Terkhen> good night 21:35:05 <drac_boy> bye Terkhen 21:35:11 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:40:55 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:41:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:44:25 <drac_boy> hi andythenorth had a good break? :P 21:49:09 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-129-125-202.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120403211507]] 21:59:49 <drac_boy> going off for supper as usual :) 21:59:51 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable085.125-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 22:03:42 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 22:07:56 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.100.24] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:09:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:09:40 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:22:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19406.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:35:21 *** ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:43:31 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 22:44:02 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 22:46:04 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4dd9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:13 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-69-99.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:56:37 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19406.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:24 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:03:55 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:30:38 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:55 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0eced.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 23:57:08 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable085.125-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 23:57:10 <drac_boy> hi