Log for #openttd on 16th April 2012:
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00:45:10  <teggi> ls
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07:14:57  <xiong> If there's a Chinese car set then there should be a Chinese industry set with a dog processing plant.
07:15:07  <NGC3982> :D
07:15:16  <NGC3982> output product: food
07:15:21  <NGC3982> or ipads
07:15:47  <xiong> Also, a Chinese Toyland industry: accepts wood, lead-based paint, produces... goods.
07:15:51  <planetmaker> and Gucci hand bags
07:16:37  <zxbiohazardzx> lol
07:16:42  <NGC3982> about that, im still waiting for that soylent green grf.
07:16:47  <zxbiohazardzx> cheap products dont give you alot of profit?
07:18:32  <xiong> Actually, the fantasy that has a grip on my brain is the Halloween Total Conversion Set. All the trees are dead; road vehicles include hearses, aircraft include brooms and flying carpets; cargoes include pumpkins and eyes of newt. Instead of town buildings, headstones; and ghosts are transported in pax-type vehicles.
07:19:03  <xiong> Mind you, I'd never play this; but I can see it catching on among the goths.
07:19:25  <NGC3982> well, it's a fun thing
07:19:28  <NGC3982> and re-usable.
07:19:40  <xiong> Re-usable?
07:20:04  <NGC3982> yes, well. something to use every year, that is.
07:20:08  <xiong> Ah.
07:20:20  <NGC3982> my soylent green maps wouldnt be that much of a treat all the year round ;_;.
07:20:57  <NGC3982> although, ive been having dreams about it
07:21:07  <xiong> Then there's the flying Santa sleigh, Arctic climate only... and the Total Lawrence of Arabia Desert Climate Conversion.
07:21:21  <NGC3982> a post-apocalyptic (kinda cccp) climate
07:21:37  <NGC3982> the towns are exports
07:21:46  <NGC3982> and the industries produce food from passengers
07:21:59  <xiong> Dunno; one appeal of OTTD for me is it's one of the few games without nuclear weapons.
07:22:10  <NGC3982> hehe, true.
07:22:16  <xiong> Not that I don't like nuclear weapons!
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07:25:00  <planetmaker> Not sure about the arsenal of the UFOs
07:25:47  <zxbiohazardzx> was about to mention we have UFO'S flying sometimes, and you never know what happens if they are hostile
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07:46:49  <xiong> One of the better parts of SimTower (Yoot's Tower) was the annual Santa visit. Better than the VIP. And one of the better parts of SimCity was the eco-monster. As I recall, in SC2K it shit windmills.
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08:10:42  <Markk> SimTower owns.
08:10:43  <Markk> :D
08:11:08  <Markk> I remeber that we played it at a LAN for a couple of years ago. :S
08:11:09  <Markk> :D*
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09:43:49  <dihedral> Th0mash0f
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09:51:30  <planetmaker> again?
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09:54:07  <dihedral> think so :-(
09:54:22  <dihedral> why on earch does xchat grab focuse when i move to an rdp session ... :-(
09:57:03  <dihedral> *earth
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10:02:44  <drac_boy> hi
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12:54:48  <Eddi|zuHause> @ports
12:54:48  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
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14:00:45  <Belugas> hello
14:02:06  <FLHerne> hello?
14:02:17  <Belugas> indeed
14:02:26  <Belugas> or.. allo
14:02:29  <Belugas> salut
14:02:33  <Belugas> hi guys
14:02:39  <Eddi|zuHause> aren't you like an hour late?
14:02:39  <Belugas> depends of your preferences
14:03:00  <Belugas> well... takes time to get back on duty after a week of vacations ;)
14:03:21  <Belugas> all those pesky emails and phone messages..
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14:39:14  <andythenorth> xiong: 'What am I missing?' <- afaict, you're missing 'realistic acceleration' for RVs ;)
14:40:59  <andythenorth> @seen pikka
14:40:59  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 3 hours, 8 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <Pikka> true :)
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14:42:43  <andythenorth> planetmaker: your post to thphwh might wear a smiley? :)
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14:55:15  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: is there a quick walkthrough for pixa?
14:55:41  <andythenorth> no
14:55:45  <andythenorth> I need to write one
14:55:53  <andythenorth> I need a test user to write it against :)
14:56:02  <andythenorth> I am a bad teacher
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14:56:33  <andythenorth> reverse engineering from BANDIT might be fastest for someone of your capability ;)
14:57:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i tried that once but didn't get anywhere
14:58:06  <andythenorth> happy to help
14:58:11  <andythenorth> I do need to document it
14:58:14  <Eddi|zuHause> my mind doesn't work on pixels
14:58:24  <andythenorth> my mind doesn't work on computer science ;)
14:58:36  <andythenorth> pixels are just vector operations
14:58:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i realize that whenever i'm trying to draw
15:00:22  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you have pixa installed?
15:00:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
15:00:35  <andythenorth> you have something in mind to draw?
15:00:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm currenty successful at "import pixa" ;)
15:00:56  <andythenorth> do you have BANDIT checked out?
15:01:03  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i want to colour my green boxes.
15:01:12  <Eddi|zuHause> first step: one colour
15:01:20  <Eddi|zuHause> second step: multiple regular colours
15:02:29  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i have bandit now
15:02:33  <andythenorth> k
15:02:48  <Eddi|zuHause> and it says i modified, but diff doesn't show anything...
15:02:53  <andythenorth> it's easiest for me (not sure if easiest for you) to use BANDIT to step you through the pipeline
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15:03:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i've got about an hour at this point :)
15:03:35  <andythenorth> that's fine, I have a child and such to do to :)
15:03:47  <andythenorth> in src/pixel_generator there's a makefile
15:03:51  <andythenorth> does it work? :)
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15:04:42  <Eddi|zuHause> most of it
15:04:51  <Eddi|zuHause> some parts throw an error
15:04:54  <andythenorth> paste?
15:05:02  <andythenorth> could be errors by me on committing things
15:06:33  <Eddi|zuHause>
15:07:02  <Eddi|zuHause> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: './intermediates/body_flat-cc1-5_8-cargo_coils-grey_metal.png'
15:07:08  <andythenorth> ok, they're tiresome, but not critical right now
15:07:22  <andythenorth> I obviously have something uncommitted here
15:07:38  <andythenorth> ignore it
15:07:45  <Eddi|zuHause> right :)
15:07:54  <andythenorth> had a look in the 'intermediates' and 'output' dirs?
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15:09:27  <Eddi|zuHause> should i see differences there?
15:09:44  <andythenorth> you should see files
15:10:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, body_box, body_tank and body_tipping stuff
15:10:03  <andythenorth> k
15:10:17  <andythenorth> so I'll step you through different parts of pixa, and the output in those folders will vary
15:10:19  <Eddi|zuHause> in output/ prefixed with trailer
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15:10:31  <andythenorth> had a look in 'input'?
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15:11:18  <Eddi|zuHause> lots of colourful boxes
15:11:24  <andythenorth> got a pixel editor?
15:11:26  <andythenorth> any will do
15:12:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
15:12:10  <andythenorth> k
15:12:29  <andythenorth> palette_key.png might be useful to open
15:12:40  <andythenorth> and tank_body_floorplan.png from input
15:12:55  <andythenorth> [palette_key.png is in src/pixel_generator]
15:13:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, found it
15:13:58  <andythenorth> the other file to open is gestalts/tank_body
15:14:04  <andythenorth>
15:14:20  <TrueBrain> no, thank you
15:14:21  <TrueBrain> wait .....
15:14:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yup
15:14:59  <andythenorth> k so lines 148-166 are the first to look at
15:15:10  <andythenorth> the dict keys there correspond to pixel colours in the floorplan
15:15:30  <andythenorth> in the tank floorplan you'll find 195 used for example (yellow-orane)
15:15:32  <andythenorth> +g
15:16:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
15:17:33  <andythenorth> if it interests you, change the sequence drawn for 195 to one of the others, then run make and look in 'intermediates'
15:17:34  <oskari89> Hmm, Simutrans with Pak128 looks like a Locomotion clone :P
15:18:01  <andythenorth> e.g change the value for 'points =' to another sequence id
15:19:01  <oskari89> But it's very crappy, even though it has openable bridges and traffic lights :P
15:19:26  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, graphics look odd now :)
15:19:37  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you can also see the sequences defined above.  e.g. tank_n_s
15:19:38  <Eddi|zuHause> for the - view
15:19:52  <andythenorth> each of those is a list of x, y offs from the starting pixel
15:19:59  <andythenorth> and a colour
15:20:15  <andythenorth> the colours are abstracted to objects e.g. pc_stripe(), but you don't need those
15:20:18  <andythenorth> that's advanced use
15:20:43  <andythenorth> try replacing all instances of 'pc_tank()' with '240'
15:20:46  <andythenorth> and make again
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15:21:21  <andythenorth> actually that doesn't work for some reason :o
15:21:47  <Eddi|zuHause> it's red now
15:22:02  <andythenorth> k
15:22:13  <andythenorth> so that's the basics of drawing sequences
15:22:23  <andythenorth> the scan order when drawing is from top-left
15:22:34  <andythenorth> this generally works well to get things in the right order
15:22:41  <andythenorth> and will work for boxes
15:22:48  <Eddi|zuHause> lines first?
15:22:52  <andythenorth> yes
15:22:57  <andythenorth> multi-pass compositing is possible but not essential for your first case
15:23:10  <andythenorth> you can ignore most of the pixa abstractions available, and just hard code sequences
15:23:45  <andythenorth> k next step
15:23:53  <andythenorth> if you look at l163
15:24:00  <andythenorth> transforms = [PixaShiftColour(0, 255, -1)]
15:24:07  <Eddi|zuHause> so, i make a sequence of pixels (x_offset, y_offset, colour), and a PixaSequenceCollection
15:24:12  <andythenorth> yes
15:24:15  <andythenorth> and draw a floorplan
15:24:29  <andythenorth> the transforms enable sequence reuse
15:24:44  <andythenorth> so PixaShiftColour has a range (0, 255) and a shift amount
15:25:02  <andythenorth> this enables quick reshading for lighting different faces
15:25:25  <andythenorth> those transforms (and the coloursets available) are why it's worth setting up pixa
15:25:28  <Eddi|zuHause> right. i'd file that under advanced stuff
15:25:34  <andythenorth> once setup they significantly save time
15:25:40  <andythenorth> but yes, advanced
15:25:47  <Eddi|zuHause> so how do i call the processing then?
15:26:20  <andythenorth> pixa provides a set of utilities to handle making spritesheets
15:26:43  <andythenorth> but there are also some in BANDIT's common file
15:26:52  <andythenorth> I didn't want to over-framework pixa
15:27:15  <andythenorth> this is actually the fiddliest part tbh
15:27:23  <Eddi|zuHause> assume i'm loading my file and just write out a same size file
15:27:47  <andythenorth> hmm
15:27:53  <andythenorth> I'll actually have to read my own code now :)
15:29:34  <andythenorth> it's probably easiest if you just follow back the code from the generate() function in
15:29:49  <andythenorth>     spritesheet.render(spriterows=spriterows) <- is the key call
15:29:56  <andythenorth> everything else is scaffolding
15:30:43  <andythenorth> GestaltBodyVariation is specific to BANDIT, and essentially decodes the filenames
15:31:04  <planetmaker> andythenorth, : probably should
15:31:32  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: assuming you rely on decoded filenames to pass config data, you'll want something similar
15:31:49  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd likely read that stuff from the tracking table instead
15:31:59  <andythenorth> k, that too
15:32:06  <andythenorth> it was convenient to put it all on a class
15:32:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. template length and stuff
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15:34:00  <andythenorth> in the simplest form, you load a floorplan image via PIL, turn it into a pixa Spritesheet, then call render() on it
15:34:28  <andythenorth> you have a PIL object in scope, and you can copy / save / modify it etc
15:35:01  <andythenorth> this may all be clear as mud :)
15:35:24  <andythenorth> I found the PIL stuff really easy tbh, it was the abstractions for coloursets and transforms that took work
15:37:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i can do abstractions myself
15:38:06  <Eddi|zuHause> it's the basic "get things to run" stuff i'm usually having problems with :)
15:38:22  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so where do you open the floorplan?
15:40:12  <andythenorth> let's see
15:40:24  <andythenorth> get_gestalt_floorplan
15:40:41  <andythenorth> it does some extra slicing things that you won't need
15:41:17  <andythenorth> the BANDIT floorplan files (will) contain floorplans for each length
15:41:41  <andythenorth> you probably don't need the crop at all
15:41:56  <andythenorth> will do
15:41:57  <Eddi|zuHause> nope... so floorplan ="src/gfx/template_12_8bpp_normal.png")
15:42:08  <andythenorth> yes
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15:42:39  <andythenorth> which you can turn into a pixa spritesheet
15:42:39  <andythenorth> Spritesheet(width=floorplan.size[0], height=SPRITEROW_HEIGHT * row_count, palette=DOS_PALETTE)
15:42:52  <andythenorth> hmm
15:42:56  <andythenorth> actually let me check that
15:47:37  <Eddi|zuHause> spritesheet = pixa.Spritesheet(floorplan.size[0], floorplan.size[1], floorplan.palette)
15:47:43  <Eddi|zuHause> (i hope)
15:49:44  <andythenorth> yup
15:49:47  <andythenorth> ah
15:49:58  <andythenorth> there's a horrible PIL gotcha around palettes
15:50:06  <andythenorth> they don't quite work properly :P
15:50:30  <andythenorth> load the palette from my DOS_PALETTE
15:50:36  <andythenorth> otherwise you have unexpected problems
15:50:44  <andythenorth> l118 in
15:51:06  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the problem?
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15:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i'll fix that later... let's see if i can go on from here
15:51:34  <Eddi|zuHause> you now do some weird stuff with spriterows
15:51:47  <Eddi|zuHause> of which i'd probably only need one
15:51:59  <adi1000> hi i have a problem with openttd 1.2... it wont start on win7 32bit, after i double-click it crashes...
15:53:09  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently i switched out c and v when i put it together yesterday... :p
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15:56:48  <Eddi|zuHause> >>> seq = pixa.PixaSequence(points = [(0,0,240)])
15:56:49  <Eddi|zuHause> >>> sc = pixa.PixaSequenceCollection(sequences = { 86 : seq })
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15:57:09  <Eddi|zuHause> if i understand this right, this should replace all pixels with colour 86 with colour 240. right?
15:58:12  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what's "colourset"?
16:00:27  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yes that should switch all pixels from 86 to 240
16:00:39  <andythenorth> when facing pixa problems, I find it easiest to think about single pixels :P
16:00:55  <andythenorth> 'colourset' enables colours to be substituted during the render pass
16:01:22  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: apparently i don't get away with not specifying it :)
16:01:44  <andythenorth>             {'seq': get_cargo_load(cargo_path, load_state, i), 'colourset': None},
16:01:46  <andythenorth> use None
16:01:55  <andythenorth> maybe it should accept that :P
16:02:02  <andythenorth> i.e. default to None
16:02:29  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: use "render_pass.get('colourset', None)"?
16:02:43  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: instead of "render_pass['colourset']"
16:02:48  <andythenorth> yes probably
16:02:53  <andythenorth> pixa is open for patches ;)
16:03:05  * andythenorth afk for 10 mins
16:03:45  * Rhamphoryncus goes and modifies his newgrf settings
16:04:02  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that seems to have worked. lots of red
16:04:43  <Rhamphoryncus> 240 tonnes of grain/sugar beets -> bio refinery -> fertilizer plant -> transfer back to bio refinery -> farm resulted in only 11 crates of farm supplies
16:04:44  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think that suffices for now. i g2g
16:07:31  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: condensed version of what i just did
16:12:00  <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, that's called "conservation of matter" :-)
16:12:06  <planetmaker> Loss is everywhere ;-)
16:12:09  <Rhamphoryncus> heh
16:12:34  * telanus1 that should be enough translating for one evening
16:13:08  <Rhamphoryncus> It's because I'm trying a different style to utilize farmsup/engsup better, so the ratings are garbage
16:13:22  <Rhamphoryncus> Thus changing newgrf settings, to set it to "always 100%"
16:13:37  * telanus1 afrikaans went from 95.5% to 97.2% translated (+30 fixed)
16:13:45  *** telanus1 is now known as telanus
16:13:53  <Rhamphoryncus> telanus: nice :)
16:15:41  <telanus> but there is about 20% that needs re-translation, as these % didn't keep up with changes
16:15:44  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
16:17:38  <planetmaker> that's the work which does not immediately show :-)
16:17:46  <planetmaker> but which is equally valuable
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16:25:56  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: looks good
16:26:11  * andythenorth ponders a 'hello world' example that procedurally generates 'hello world'
16:26:19  <andythenorth> seems the most obvious tutorial
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16:56:38  <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: how flexible is the "within a month of eachother" code?  For a sawmill (2/8 for one, 6/8 for the other) would I get the same result regardless of who arrived first?
16:56:58  <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: it's brutally simple
16:57:38  <Rhamphoryncus> Well, I noticed before that it checks dates, rather than just "delivered in current month", so it's not TOO simple :)
16:57:40  <andythenorth> produce_secondary.pnml
16:58:00  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
16:58:29  <andythenorth> l82-84
17:00:20  <Rhamphoryncus> The leftover/waiting parts I don't understand
17:00:29  <Rhamphoryncus> It doesn't really matter.  I was just curious
17:00:58  <andythenorth> I don't understand the leftover/waiting parts either
17:01:04  <andythenorth> I'm trusting that they work
17:01:13  <Rhamphoryncus> lol
17:01:16  <andythenorth> but yes, you get the same result for all cargos
17:01:35  *** Arafangion [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:01:47  <andythenorth> and it's tied to THIS_PRODUCTION_SPAN, which appeared be a variable per-industry last time I checked
17:01:58  * Rhamphoryncus nods
17:02:03  <andythenorth> 30 days
17:02:12  <andythenorth> could / should be a global
17:02:28  <Rhamphoryncus> Different note: is there an RV with a real lumber sprite?
17:02:31  <andythenorth> ?
17:03:04  <Rhamphoryncus> ATP flatbed truck is displaying big cylinders
17:03:15  <andythenorth> batteries from toyland?
17:03:27  <Rhamphoryncus> yeah, could be..
17:03:33  * Rhamphoryncus hopes he didn't break something
17:11:49  *** peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
17:16:52  <Rhamphoryncus> ... google streetview just drove past
17:18:20  <Terkhen> hello
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17:19:44  *** Aciid [] has joined #openttd
17:19:50  <Aciid> signals how the ef they work
17:19:53  <Aciid> oh I think I got this
17:19:56  <Aciid> *crashed*
17:19:57  <Aciid> fffffuuuu
17:20:05  <Rhamphoryncus> one man play?
17:20:19  <Aciid> sure
17:21:27  <Rhamphoryncus> We've all been there
17:21:37  <Rhamphoryncus> But if you've got a more specific question then go ahead
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17:27:55  <Aciid> Rhamphoryncus: more like I was describing my failure :D
17:27:58  <Aciid> I'm allrite
17:28:02  <Rhamphoryncus> k :)
17:28:28  <Rhamphoryncus> I've tons of experience.  I still get the occasional crash
17:29:03  <andythenorth> 7 open FIRS bugs
17:40:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24122 /trunk/src/lang/ (afrikaans.txt danish.txt french.txt):
17:40:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:40:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 139 changes by telanus
17:40:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 3 changes by beruic
17:40:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by OliTTD
17:41:57  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I'm checking mine now
17:44:23  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
17:44:32  <Wolf01> evenink
17:44:44  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
17:47:07  *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@] has joined #openttd
17:47:23  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
17:47:26  <supermop> yo dudes
17:47:42  <supermop> can a new object be passable
17:47:49  <andythenorth> ?
17:48:02  <supermop> like, a boat can drive over it
17:48:26  <andythenorth> nope
17:48:30  <supermop> some special tile, eye candy tthat you place on water
17:48:30  <andythenorth> not without cheating :P
17:48:37  <supermop> cheating how?
17:49:22  <andythenorth> offset the sprites
17:49:34  <supermop> well ive done plenty of that
17:50:00  <supermop> but certainly some objects can occupy water without blocking it?
17:50:23  <supermop> like a bouy or the loading point on a water industry?
17:51:50  <Terkhen> buoys are more like "stations" than "objects"
17:52:15  <supermop> yeah,
17:52:34  <Rhamphoryncus> "currently running 586 days late".  88 day timetable
17:52:51  <supermop> oh well then
17:52:54  <Rhamphoryncus> I went to demolish a RV depot and found a timetabled vehicle I never started :)
17:54:05  *** telanus [~Barney_Er@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:54:19  <Terkhen> urgh, the oil wells industry tile animation code is different in both FIRS and OpenGFX+ Industries, now I need to actually understand what the fix does
17:54:34  <andythenorth> :(
17:55:10  <andythenorth> on the positive side
17:55:16  <andythenorth> I missed that this had changed
17:55:35  <andythenorth> if I've understood this correctly, I should be able to better force industries to appear
17:55:43  <Terkhen> nice :)
17:56:04  <andythenorth> e.g. OpenTTD never builds FIRS aluminium plants (available 1920 or so) if you start in 1870
17:56:17  <andythenorth> 'never' being a subjective measure of 'not often enough' :P
17:58:18  <andythenorth>
17:58:25  <andythenorth> ^ andythenorth hates parameter stuff
17:58:33  <andythenorth> did Yexo find a house yet? :)
18:01:11  <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: that's also a much better way to disable industries after the game start
18:01:46  <andythenorth> I re-read that bug report, I'm not actually sure I understand it
18:01:53  <andythenorth> (3588)
18:02:14  <Rhamphoryncus> The report itself is very confusing
18:02:51  <Rhamphoryncus> The point is: if you turn off "industries can open during gameplay" they ALSO turn off during map generation
18:03:18  <andythenorth> is the bug report about the text string, or the feature?
18:03:25  <Rhamphoryncus> They don't know
18:03:47  <Rhamphoryncus> The feature is broken so the text doesn't match what it really does
18:03:57  <andythenorth> hmm
18:04:07  <Rhamphoryncus> So fix the feature and all will be well
18:05:00  <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: you verified it doesn't work yesterday?
18:05:03  <Rhamphoryncus> yep
18:05:06  *** pugi [] has joined #openttd
18:05:10  <andythenorth> can you extend the report?
18:05:31  <Rhamphoryncus> sure
18:05:35  <andythenorth> thanks
18:05:37  <andythenorth> will help
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18:15:45  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I was going to test my code, but I managed to reproduce FS 5151 again :P
18:15:51  <andythenorth> he
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18:18:17  <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: let me know if that clears it up enough
18:20:13  <andythenorth> thanks
18:20:30  <andythenorth> seems like 'incomplete feature' rather than minor bug
18:21:15  <Rhamphoryncus> if incomplete means non-functional, yes :)
18:21:39  <Rhamphoryncus> I'll put together some proposed replacement text for the parameter
18:22:43  <andythenorth> thanks
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18:23:51  * Rhamphoryncus notes that completely disabling industries is kind of pointless XD
18:24:50  <Rhamphoryncus> also, 2**3 == 8, not 6..
18:25:14  <andythenorth> it's a feature to only support scenarios
18:25:35  <andythenorth> it has no other valid cases :P
18:26:23  <Rhamphoryncus> Scenarios can leave map generation enabled
18:26:43  <Rhamphoryncus> But I suppose it's clearer to have an explicit option
18:33:00  <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: done
18:36:21  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I successfully backported ogfx-industries code, should I commit?
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18:37:32  <andythenorth> Terkhen: \p/
18:37:48  <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: so far wrt map gen, we've said 'use the map gen setting for no industry'
18:37:56  <Terkhen> I'll commit as soon as I manage to get my key working
18:38:40  <Rhamphoryncus> Alright
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18:48:31  <telanus1> what's this suppose to mean? "Vehicle data to base jumping on"
18:50:52  *** jo2k [] has quit [Quit: jo2k]
18:52:40  <NGC3982> two monitors really, really improves this game.
18:52:58  <NGC3982>
18:55:46  <frosch123> telanus1: i guess it's a tooltip in the order gui when setting up conditional orders
18:57:20  <frosch123> telanus1: <- probably the tooltip behind the "vehicle age" button in that second last picture
19:01:32  <telanus1> thank you
19:01:39  <Rhamphoryncus> telanus1: if frosch123 is right then translate all you want, they still won't understand it ;)
19:02:20  *** Chris_Booth [] has joined #openttd
19:03:04  <frosch123> Rhamphoryncus: maybe he translated it with a reference to the manual? :p
19:03:18  <Rhamphoryncus> I stand by my position
19:04:49  <telanus1> Rhamphoryncus: halve the afrikaans speakers won't understand that sentence
19:05:14  <Rhamphoryncus> I barely understand the english version
19:07:04  <telanus1> But then 90% of the afrikaans translation of programs on the net is nothing more than Dutch with Afrikaans spelling. And causes nobody to use it :(
19:08:19  <frosch123> there are certainly some crappy ottd videos on yt
19:10:07  <telanus1> some linux apps' Afrikaans translations is so bad it's useless.
19:12:34  <__ln__> thedailyofftopic: how do i find the Taylor series for (5+x^2)/(x^3-3x+2)?
19:12:51  <__ln__> at x = 0
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19:15:27  <telanus1> Quick Question: {BLACK}Town is {RED}not{BLACK} growing would translate to {BLACK}Dorp groei {RED}nie.
19:15:28  <telanus1> Should I add the {black} command at the end without anything behind it like:  {BLACK}Dorp groei {RED}nie{BLACK}?
19:17:56  <Rhamphoryncus> Ergh.  I want to transfer and load at the same station :(
19:18:37  <frosch123> telanus1: you can add and remove colour control codes as you like
19:18:46  <frosch123> no need to keep the black
19:18:51  <frosch123> at the end
19:19:21  <telanus1> Webtranslator complains: Missing a {BLACK} command
19:20:15  * andythenorth -> pub
19:20:17  <andythenorth> bye
19:20:20  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
19:21:39  *** drac_boy [] has joined #openttd
19:21:41  <drac_boy> hi
19:21:50  <frosch123> telanus1: ok, then blame TrueBrain :)
19:22:27  <telanus1> :-D
19:22:45  <TrueBrain> frosch123: there you are mistaken; translations have to have the same colour markings as the original :)
19:25:02  <frosch123> so translators cannot be creative with colours?
19:25:08  <TrueBrain> exactly
19:25:33  <TrueBrain> no translator can make a {RED}O{YELLOW}P{RED}E{YELLOW}N{BLACK}TTD
19:25:44  <TrueBrain> for the obvious reasons
19:26:41  <__ln__> what about languages that need to be written with different colors, like italian?!?
19:26:41  <telanus1> so it's ok to use this : {BLACK}Dorp groei {RED}nie{BLACK}
19:27:24  <TrueBrain> it should
19:27:38  <TrueBrain> dunno tbh; guess you have a first there *shrug*
19:27:39  <TrueBrain> ask Rubidium :D
19:31:38  <NGC3982> futurama or american dad?
19:33:23  <telanus1> Futurama
19:33:56  <drac_boy> NGC3982 neither for me :P
19:37:50  <drac_boy> got a new 'worlds toughest truckers' on this night tho. wondering if thats the show hosted by IRT again
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19:41:55  * drac_boy is working a bit on the grf worktable and that old computer list now tho
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19:56:39  <frosch123> why are all ottd videos on yt like gold league?
19:57:05  <drac_boy> umm no idea? I only look at screenshots :)
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20:30:22  <__ln__>
20:31:41  <SpComb> we need to dumb down the kernel, you can't expect people to actually learn stuff these days
20:32:03  <SpComb> outsource development to Microsoft, some nice Visual Studio wizard thingie
20:33:32  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:34:15  <drac_boy> heh ms? no thanks :)
20:35:40  <Terkhen> good night
20:36:38  <drac_boy> bye Terkhen
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20:42:25  <frosch123> night
20:42:28  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:42:36  <Penguin66606> I need help with multiplayer
20:43:18  <drac_boy> what is it Penguin66606?
20:44:16  <__ln__> it's a type of game where many players play at once on the same map
20:44:36  <Mazur> Hey, that's my job!
20:44:49  <drac_boy> its not mazur :p
20:44:56  <Penguin66606> I'm trying to set up a multiplayer server between me and my Girlfriend, but I follow the directions, and the servers don't show.
20:45:04  *** Chris_Booth [] has joined #openttd
20:45:30  <drac_boy> Penguin66606 you need to set the ports in your router unless your computer is directly connected (either 56k or your ethernet cable runs staight to the dsl/cable modem somehow)
20:45:31  <Mazur> Well, I'm still the king of stating the bleeding obvious.
20:45:54  <Mazur> And reacting to the literal rather than the intended sentence.
20:46:06  <Penguin66606> Alright, I'll try that.
20:46:56  <Mazur> Add server sometimes does the trick as well, at the server list page.
20:47:30  <__ln__> Mazur: you're a fan of the Airplane! movie too?
20:48:04  <Mazur> Does a bear take the paper into the woods?
20:48:47  <Mazur> And don't call me Shirley.
20:49:14  <__ln__> that's right
20:49:35  <Mazur> The best bit for me is the jiving old white lady.
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20:53:00  *** tegro [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:53:17  <Penguin66606> Alright, now I need to see if she'll find the server.
20:56:23  *** peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
20:57:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i clearly haven't seen that movie often enough...
20:57:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Penguin66606: if it's shown on then she should also be able to see it
20:59:18  <Penguin66606> It's not there.
21:02:07  <Eddi|zuHause> @ports
21:02:07  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
21:02:21  <Eddi|zuHause> Penguin66606: you need to open both TCP and UDP ports
21:02:35  <Eddi|zuHause> and redirect them to your local IP
21:02:37  <Penguin66606> I have.
21:02:46  <Penguin66606> how do I do that?
21:02:49  <Eddi|zuHause> and then also open them on your local firewall
21:03:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Penguin66606: that depends on your router
21:05:11  <Penguin66606> I have a Linksys, and I set it to
21:05:22  <Penguin66606> Application:openttd
21:06:05  <Penguin66606> start:39789 end:3979
21:06:37  <Penguin66606> protocol to both TCP and UDP
21:07:01  <drac_boy> Penguin66606 sometimes you need to write it as openttd.exe instead
21:07:07  <drac_boy> not sure why some routers are fussy for that
21:07:14  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
21:07:19  <Penguin66606> alright, I'll try that.
21:07:37  *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@] has left #openttd []
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21:09:27  <Penguin66606> Alright, I don't think it'll work because I'm running Linux, and it doesn't have the support for .exe files.
21:10:15  <drac_boy> oh sure what stuffix that would had been then
21:10:16  <FLHerne> Use a linux binary then?
21:10:28  * FLHerne misses the point
21:10:43  * FLHerne realises which point he missed :-(]
21:11:50  <Penguin66606> I don't even know how to do that haha. I'm not really a comp. tech, I just got Ubuntu because Windows doesn't like my comp.
21:12:02  <drac_boy> heh FLHerne :-p
21:13:51  * FLHerne isn't sure he did miss the point, actually  :|
21:14:48  <FLHerne> [offtopic] Turns out that dwarf hamsters like to eat congealed raspberry jam :P [/offtopic]
21:15:19  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds slimey
21:16:25  <FLHerne> At least it stops them trying to eat my scrollwheel...  :D
21:16:42  *** globester [] has quit [Quit: <^bOog3ymAn_> give me the command to pu it in the popups when i click on to run a file who is in the file script]
21:19:25  <FLHerne> Penguin66606: <I'm running Linux, and it doesn't have the support for .exe files> Did you mean you were using a linux binary, so .exe wouldn't be useful for your router, or that you're trying to use a .exe on linux for some reason?
21:19:31  <Wolf01> 'night
21:19:34  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:20:41  <Penguin66606> I'm running linux binary, so .exe arent useful.
21:21:49  <FLHerne> That seems like the right answer :P
21:22:40  <FLHerne> Was a bit confused  -__-
21:22:58  <Penguin66606> okay lol
21:25:32  * FLHerne is easily confused :|
21:25:59  <drac_boy> heh
21:26:13  <drac_boy> you're doing too much patchypatchings then FLHerne :P
21:28:23  <FLHerne> True :P
21:29:23  * drac_boy borks FLHerne with serial i/o datas
21:29:25  <drac_boy> :)
21:30:01  * FLHerne sends back some EEPROM page overflow bugs
21:30:05  <FLHerne> :D
21:30:50  <FLHerne> I keep trying to fit 65 bytes in a page, then get surprised when complete nonsense comes out :P
21:33:33  <drac_boy> you're funny :)
21:33:45  * drac_boy is actually trying to work out some bus design choices tho :/
21:34:25  * FLHerne is trying to design an automatic model railway
21:34:45  <FLHerne> That kind of stupid bug isn't funny at the time :-(
21:34:52  <Penguin66606> alright, when I create a server after forwarding the ports, do I use my computers IP address, or the routers IP?
21:34:58  <drac_boy> btw don't forget to start small on that layout :p
21:35:09  <drac_boy> Penguin66606 computer ip always afaik
21:35:33  <Penguin66606> alright, thanks
21:36:30  <FLHerne> Penguin66606: What are you doing with the IP? Putting it into the server?
21:36:50  <FLHerne> Or giving it to someone else?
21:37:37  <Penguin66606> Putting it in the server
21:38:18  * FLHerne wonders why the server needs to know its own IP
21:39:37  <FLHerne> Sending it to BaNaNaS would need the external address of the router, localhost would do for loopbacks?
21:39:50  * FLHerne is confused again :-(
21:40:11  <Penguin66606> I'm very confuse O.o
21:41:00  <glx> in openttd.cfg ?
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21:54:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Penguin66606: the IP entry in openttd.cfg is only relevant if you have multiple network cards. in 99% of the cases you just leave it as
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21:56:01  <Penguin66606> okay.
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22:34:02  <posidon> hey I was wondering how I get my own server, do I need a server client or will I need to purchase one?
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22:34:46  <posidon> hey I was wondering how I get my own server, do I need a server client or will I need to purchase one?
22:35:26  * drac_boy bonks posidon for both spamming and maybe not reading the very simple website first
22:35:51  <posidon> I did read, however I didnt find any useful information there
22:35:59  <posidon> and I did not mean to spam I appologise
22:36:27  <drac_boy> posidon you mean you didn't see the obvious big "multiplayer" or "server" links?
22:36:31  <posidon> not any useful information regarding the topic of my question
22:37:01  <posidon> I did see the "server links" however I didnt see any direct corolation towards how to host a server
22:37:07  <posidon> I will take a look again
22:37:19  <drac_boy> posidon...try Documentation and look again
22:40:22  <posidon> I did check again but found no results could you please just point me towards the section I need to look at, I went to the manual link on and I checked the server link but only found the current running servers
22:41:28  <drac_boy> manual>gameplay>multiplayer
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22:42:51  <lobster> [00:38]  <GoneWacko>
22:42:54  <lobster> check that
22:46:04  <posidon> I did check them both, thank you guys and I am sorry if I inadvertently upset anyone
22:47:08  <lobster> not me, that for sure
22:47:17  <lobster> always be welcome to ask
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