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00:02:14 *** goodger [~ben@94-30-43-248.xdsl.murphx.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:05:25 *** GT [~GT@rt-scb-9f41.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has left #openttd [] 00:09:06 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:17:59 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:24:08 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable085.125-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 00:30:31 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 00:47:41 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-19-234.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:06:56 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 01:10:52 *** collinp [~collin@h173.136.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 01:11:14 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-245-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:15:34 *** th_gergo [~thiering@2E6B2A8B.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:16:12 *** Biolunar__ [~mahdi@blfd-4d08fdf1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 01:16:38 *** Biolunar__ [~mahdi@blfd-4d08fdf1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [] 01:18:11 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-102-165.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:21:18 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:23:29 *** Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-4db0f49e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:27:30 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:02 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 01:33:36 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:39:29 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-035-157.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:43:25 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-121-60.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 01:48:40 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 01:55:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C61B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 02:01:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CFAB.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:10:59 *** k-man [~Jason@ppp167-253-181.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:13:38 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:22:55 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 02:41:13 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:3dd9:1ef1:4c78:8333] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:56:15 *** collinp [~collin@h173.136.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy version 2.3] 03:04:24 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus: get the more height levels up to trunk standard 03:04:44 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus: or split your head about newgrf state machines 03:06:46 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus: did you look at the nice-to-have patches in our wiki? http://wiki.openttd.org/Todo_list 03:07:04 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus: or devise NewGRF bridges 03:07:15 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus: or NewGRF road types 03:07:25 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus: you wanted the hard stuff, did you? :-) 03:08:56 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus: also, there's the long-standing issue with how settings / options / difficulty /... are scattered 03:09:20 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus: and ... presets for settings (similar to newgrf presets) come to mind there, too 03:25:07 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:35:09 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-89-176-205-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 03:39:13 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 03:44:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 04:04:25 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.114.232.248.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:08:31 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has joined #openttd 04:29:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 04:33:06 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 04:41:07 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.94.103] has joined #openttd 04:51:09 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC679A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:51:25 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67D63.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:53:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 04:57:55 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has joined #openttd 05:09:37 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: number of bugs in the bug tracker to 0, cargo destinations, proper implementation of basically 'corners in bridges' (together with signals, crossings, also on the bridge heads, and the same underground) 05:09:52 <Rubidium> that should keep you busy ;) 05:19:26 *** Avenger [~rafinha21@186.213.140.149] has joined #openttd 05:20:25 *** Avenger [~rafinha21@186.213.140.149] has quit [] 05:25:48 *** Avenger [~rafinha21@186.213.140.149] has joined #openttd 05:25:59 *** collinp [~collin@h173.136.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 05:26:12 *** collinp [~collin@h173.136.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [] 05:26:23 *** Avenger [~rafinha21@186.213.140.149] has quit [] 05:26:25 *** Avenger [~rafinha21@186.213.140.149] has joined #openttd 05:26:52 *** Avenger [~rafinha21@186.213.140.149] has quit [] 05:54:05 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 05:54:57 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 05:55:01 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 05:55:08 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:55:12 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 05:55:14 <Alberth> moin 06:05:41 <telanus> morning 06:18:37 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19ABA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:27:18 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.94.103] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:31:03 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:34:18 *** namad8 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 06:37:55 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:40:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:41:50 <Rhamphoryncus> planetmaker, Rubidium: :) 06:48:43 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:55:11 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.94.103] has joined #openttd 07:00:00 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-125-94.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:21 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-125-94.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 07:00:39 <Terkhen> good morning 07:00:57 <andythenorth> hola 07:01:18 <andythenorth> can I haz pony please? 07:01:19 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=59570&p=1009692 07:01:29 <andythenorth> [I promise to take feed it well] 07:06:40 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:06:46 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:07:04 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: which could fix issues I've seen in both FIRS and ECS.. 07:10:17 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 07:11:51 <andythenorth> it makes randomising initial production trivial 07:12:19 <andythenorth> just randomly return one of: -1, 0, +1 for production multiplier value 07:12:41 <Rhamphoryncus> Does that include the "farms produce too little" thing? 07:13:05 <andythenorth> it would allow farms to produce a wide range of amounts on game start 07:13:30 <andythenorth> e.g. the production multiplier could be adjusted in a range [-2..2] 07:13:35 * Rhamphoryncus nods 07:13:59 <Rhamphoryncus> or -2..0 if you want them to start low, without limiting the top end 07:14:36 <andythenorth> yes 07:15:29 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 07:18:43 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:24:58 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:26:21 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-35-89.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 07:28:38 <Rhamphoryncus> Bah. Decorative station tiles should not have such a high property maintenance cost :( 07:33:41 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 07:37:46 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:39:18 <Eddi|zuHause> code them as objects 07:39:46 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:43:47 <Rhamphoryncus> indeed 07:44:09 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 07:50:31 *** th_gergo [~thiering@2E6B2A8B.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 07:58:00 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.94.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00:38 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:02:57 *** planetmaker is now known as pm 08:04:08 *** pm is now known as planetmaker 08:07:55 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 08:14:23 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.95.16] has joined #openttd 08:36:16 <andythenorth> so add a new cargo unit in FIRS: 'bales' 08:36:19 <andythenorth> or a silly idea? 08:36:26 <andythenorth> used for wool, plant fibres 08:38:11 *** Firartix [~artixds@161.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 08:38:15 <planetmaker> didn't you add that long ago? Or was that 'crates'? 08:38:31 <planetmaker> but as it has 'crates' already a unit 'bales' doesn't hurt 08:38:50 <planetmaker> makes it sound better after all 08:39:00 <telanus> does sound better 08:39:28 <andythenorth> so now I have to figure out how to add it :) 08:46:05 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 08:46:13 <Wolf01> morning o/ 08:47:37 *** th_gergo [~thiering@2E6B2A8B.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:48:45 <Zuu> Is the company limit 16 or is there a slot in 4 bytes for a "no company"? 08:52:25 <planetmaker> Zuu: 15 companies 08:52:28 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-126-186.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:52:37 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 08:52:38 <Zuu> planetmaker: thanks 08:52:39 <planetmaker> 15 player / AI companies 08:52:50 <planetmaker> the 16th is for other purposes like 'none' 08:52:57 <planetmaker> (e.g. for road) 08:53:41 <planetmaker> there's also CompanyID 255, which is the spectators 08:53:41 <Jupix2> pm any particular reason you're ignoring GeekToo? and is it temporary or permanent? 08:53:53 <planetmaker> I'm not ignoring him? 08:54:25 <Jupix2> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1006438#p1006438 08:54:34 <Jupix2> please comment 08:54:35 <peter1138> Zuu, bits. 4 bytes would allow 4 billion players... 08:54:42 <planetmaker> what shall I comment? 08:54:59 <planetmaker> it feels to me like the upteens iteration of the same discussion 08:55:09 <planetmaker> I feel like I have said all I could argue 08:55:10 <SpComb> peter1138: 2 billion, not counting negative players! 08:55:35 <Zuu> planetmaker: hehe yep good spot :-) 08:55:38 <Jupix2> planetmaker: it's a prototype for a solution to a deadlocked discussion 08:55:53 <Jupix2> planetmaker: if it works, then it's a release for that deadlock 08:55:54 <Zuu> So I created a short draft for SCP http://wiki.openttd.org/Script_communication_protocol 08:56:06 <Jupix2> planetmaker: you need to say either it works, or it doesn't, because X 08:56:54 <planetmaker> he has to prove it works 08:57:03 <planetmaker> it's not my duty to disprove it 08:57:07 <Jupix2> the .grf in there is proof? 08:57:30 <Jupix2> what else do you need? 08:57:36 <Jupix2> a fork of the whole of ogfx? 08:58:22 <Jupix2> as far as i can understand GT can't actually make modifications to the real ogfx+, so making that prototype was pretty much all he could do 08:59:13 <planetmaker> everyone can clone, fork and modify everything found on the devzone. Licenses allow it. 08:59:33 <planetmaker> but of course for a showcase that's not necessarily needed 08:59:48 <andythenorth> Zuu: your idea is functionally similar to my idea of allowing nogo and industry to communicate via the town :P (which was dismissed as insanse) :) 09:00:15 <planetmaker> Jupix2: but what he does is "here's a few ground sprites coded, now please test every contingency" 09:00:27 <planetmaker> But testing that and showing that it works for all of them is HIS task. Not mine 09:00:53 <planetmaker> He's doing it way too easy by "outsourcing" the lengthy, boring proof of HIS idea to the ones he wants to convince 09:00:56 <planetmaker> sorry. 09:01:09 <Jupix2> what makes you think he hasn't done that? 09:01:17 <planetmaker> I see nothing. I only see the grf 09:01:24 <planetmaker> No screenshots of the problematic things 09:01:26 <planetmaker> nothing 09:01:29 <Zuu> andythenorth: read the backlog of yesterday night to see me and krinn discuss the idea. 09:01:33 <planetmaker> no testgame where all that shows 09:01:38 <planetmaker> or could be checked 09:01:43 <Jupix2> planetmaker: so you need screenshots of those contingencies? 09:02:35 <planetmaker> Jupix2: to put it blunt: I'm currently not willing to invest time in disproving something which I'm convinced to not be a good solution 09:02:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19ABA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:19 <planetmaker> especially as I got much to do in RL 09:03:21 <Jupix2> planetmaker: yeah, but what do you need proven? 09:03:51 <Jupix2> GT can't do stuff for you that you don't specify as needing doing 09:03:53 <planetmaker> why his solution is the magic "all is fine thing" while it the "as is" is so much worse 09:04:59 <planetmaker> And I'm very very tired of this "discussion". It really is not more than "it must be done differently" 09:05:19 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:05:21 <planetmaker> Rarely arguments are brought and things really compared ad exemplum 09:05:56 <Jupix2> that may be because you're ignoring the example because "effort" 09:06:07 <planetmaker> with emphasis on where the differences really matter (Like foundations, half-tile slopes, shores, water, rivers, dead-end roads,...) 09:06:30 <planetmaker> Jupix2: I coded the fields myself already... one, two weeks before he coded them. 09:06:48 <planetmaker> No, I did nowhere release that or post that 09:07:19 <planetmaker> other than maybe http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/ogfx-landscape-r111M.zip 09:07:40 <Jupix2> with the technique that he used for the grf he posted on april 8th? 09:07:52 <planetmaker> no, just the sprites as they were 09:07:59 <planetmaker> with their faulty offsets etc 09:08:02 <Jupix2> then yours is irrelevant 09:08:06 <planetmaker> good 09:08:20 <Jupix2> for now what's important is what he posted 09:08:48 <Jupix2> and it's not being considered by the people who can modify ogfx+ which is not good 09:09:10 <Jupix2> so either they need to "wake up" or they need to give privileges to GT who does care 09:09:42 <Jupix2> radio silence does not work 09:09:55 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-102-165.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:10:17 <Jupix2> even if it is based on some actual real argument. because when that argument is not posted, the discussion doesn't move anywhere and no solution is ever reached 09:10:33 <planetmaker> so you basically ask me to cheerio and suddenly change to "oh, that is all fine"? 09:11:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19ABA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:11:12 <Jupix2> that's up to you. i'd rather you do that if the grf works fine 09:11:20 <Jupix2> and not ignore it because of principles 09:11:29 <planetmaker> I don't ignore it because of principle 09:11:37 <Jupix2> and if you can't be arsed, then give privileges to someone who can 09:13:12 <planetmaker> But I'm very tired of the "zoom level ground sprites must be changed" "discussion". He has a grf there. Ok 09:13:17 <planetmaker> So... what does it improve? 09:13:21 <planetmaker> Where do I see that? 09:13:30 <planetmaker> Is there any comparison done and shown anywhere? 09:13:33 <planetmaker> I see none. Please do 09:13:39 <Alberth> Jupix2: you don't need privileges, and even he'd give them to someone else, that person has the same problem, namely, doing the next long and boring step of checking everything, and demonstrating all is fine 09:13:43 <planetmaker> Otherwise I consider trunk behaviour fine 09:15:16 <planetmaker> I'm really not sure what your argument is. And what conclusion you draw from GT's posting. 09:16:03 <planetmaker> There's a test grf. Ok. He's talking about compromise. But... doesn't show it 09:16:12 <planetmaker> Leaves all the "find out work" to the readers 09:16:32 <Jupix2> Alberth: if he was even recognized, then it would be his baby, and he would most certainly test it (or be ridiculed) 09:16:46 <planetmaker> It's not convincing to tell people "please convince yourself that I am wrong by investing several hours of your work while I sit back and watch what arguments you can come up with" 09:17:20 <Jupix2> planetmaker: ok, you don't need to convince me any more that you don't want to test, i'll relay what you're saying to him 09:17:48 <Jupix2> as for what the argument is and what the .grf stands for technically, that's something for GT to explain, not me 09:17:53 <Jupix2> the problem i'm solving is the radio silence 09:17:55 <Alberth> Jupix2: so what stops him from doing that now, he needs a pat on the back "good job, now please proof your claims"? 09:18:19 <planetmaker> thanks Alberth :-) 09:18:20 <Jupix2> Alberth: he thought the .grf he posted would do as proof 09:18:38 <Alberth> Jupix2: it is notr radio silence, it is "everything has been said, and nobody has new arguments" 09:18:45 <planetmaker> exactly 09:18:47 <zooks> quick question: is there a way to found towns in nogo? and/or found industries? Or will this ever be added? 09:19:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it's 21°C but i feel cold... 09:19:38 <planetmaker> Alberth is better with explaining what I mean than I am :-) 09:20:00 <Jupix2> Alberth: *sigh* i think a prototype is a pretty heavy argument. we are both pretty astonished that a full ogfx+ fork will be needed 09:20:20 <planetmaker> Jupix2: it's not an argument. It's a tool to make his point. But he stopped making his point 09:20:44 <planetmaker> leaving the hard part of *his* argument to the others 09:20:48 <Alberth> Jupix2: it's like having a patch, and claiming "it works". 09:20:51 <planetmaker> making the actual proof. It's not done 09:21:06 <Jupix2> he just didn't anticipate he'd need screenshots 09:21:19 <Jupix2> he thought you were invested enough to test for yourself and see for yourself 09:21:20 <Alberth> Jupix2: to claim "it works", you have to demonstrate why, and how it looks 09:22:05 <Jupix2> ok, my final point: next time, all that has been said during the last 5 mins, you need to post in a similar situation 09:22:14 <Jupix2> and not go silent 09:22:33 <planetmaker> it was and is his turn to continue... 09:22:39 <Jupix2> you didn't tell him that 09:22:43 <Alberth> Jupix2: he knows we are here, and he has not come to ask either 09:22:44 <planetmaker> does he need you as his spokes man? Can't he talk himself? 09:22:45 <Jupix2> he can't anticipate what you need or want 09:23:05 <Alberth> Jupix2: but he can ask 09:23:15 <Jupix2> 02:26 * GT wonders why http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1006438#p1006438 is completely ignored. 09:23:21 <Jupix2> last night here on this channel 09:23:35 <Jupix2> GMT+3 timestamp 09:24:03 <Alberth> I think we were both very much asleep at that time :) 09:24:04 <planetmaker> so, is he here? 09:24:08 <planetmaker> no. 09:24:12 <planetmaker> Was I around then? No 09:24:38 <Jupix2> *sigh* 09:24:50 <Jupix2> anyway, i'll relay what you need to him 09:25:02 <Jupix2> next time, read the thread, and reply if you're satisfied, and reply if you' 09:25:07 <Jupix2> re not satisfied 09:25:23 <Jupix2> and i'll tell him to come here more 09:25:23 <planetmaker> errm... I reply when I feel that I can add something new to a discussion 09:25:34 <Jupix2> no 09:25:37 <planetmaker> Just generating white noise in threads is not my style 09:25:40 <peter1138> meanwhile i'm loving all the content that doesn't rely on tile edges 09:26:23 <Jupix2> planetmaker: "affirmative" as a work exists for a reason 09:26:26 <Jupix2> word* 09:26:30 <andythenorth> can anyone quickly convert all my grfs to 32bpp? 09:27:01 *** Sara [~Sara@195.117.110.92] has joined #openttd 09:27:26 <Sara> hi 09:27:30 <Alberth> hi 09:27:41 <Sara> can someone give me tips how to start play ? 09:27:46 <Sara> any tutorials? 09:28:01 <Alberth> the wiki tutorials perhaps? 09:28:09 <planetmaker> there might be some on YouTube and we have a decent wiki with a tutorial 09:28:10 <Sara> im on it 09:28:28 <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Tutorial 09:28:53 <Alberth> unfortunately, no youtube list at the wiki until now :( 09:29:00 <Sara> ok, starting to learn 09:29:08 <Sara> is it worth it? is this game cool ? 09:29:20 <Alberth> and you ask here? :D 09:29:31 <Sara> yea, you right :P 09:29:59 <Alberth> it's takes time to get into it 09:30:08 <planetmaker> Sara, it might be worth also to join an MP serer and also see how others play it 09:30:09 *** Firartix [~artixds@161.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:30:36 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 09:30:44 <Sara> u can play at one world with others? 09:30:54 <Alberth> yes 09:31:03 <Sara> wow 09:31:05 <planetmaker> of course 09:31:25 <Sara> and then everybody has one city or what? 09:31:37 <Alberth> that's one form 09:31:59 <Sara> but u have to work together to get this going ? 09:32:03 <Alberth> you can play against other people, or *with* other people. The latter is coop style 09:32:26 <Sara> oh,ok 09:32:35 <planetmaker> #openttdcoop Welcome Server </shameless plug> :-P 09:33:06 <Alberth> one of the servers I need to look into one day :) 09:33:11 <Zuu> There is also a in-game tutorial that covers road and aircraft building 09:33:19 <Sara> oh, where? 09:33:29 <Sara> i have openttd 1.2.0 09:33:34 <Zuu> In online content, search for "beginner tutorial" 09:33:37 <Alberth> oh, good point Zuu. Is that at the tutorial wiki already? 09:34:06 <Zuu> After you have downloaded it, you click on play scenario and select the beginner tutorial. 09:34:37 <Zuu> Alberth: http://wiki.openttd.org/In-game_tutorial 09:34:39 <Sara> ok,thx 09:34:52 <Sara> i see that here are some kind of srcipts too 09:34:54 <Sara> cool 09:35:08 <Zuu> Alberth: The article isn't much more than showing that it exists :-) 09:36:02 <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Tutorial doesn't show it, I think 09:36:28 <Alberth> perhaps the page is even wrong, you'd expect a kind of index page first, I'd say 09:36:53 <Sara> NAVIGATION -TODO :P 09:36:58 <Sara> tutorial 09:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> what's this crazy talk about charging money for "shipping lanes"?!? 09:37:28 <Alberth> someone is trying to sneak IS into the game 09:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but for _anything_ ... just not "shipping lanes" 09:38:00 <Alberth> sounds like a nice money machine, you just claim all water, et voila :p 09:39:05 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:39:43 <Alberth> I sort of like having lanes, it may work for path finding, but in an automatic way managed by the game, imho 09:39:58 <Alberth> and none of this IS stuff :) 09:40:12 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly 09:40:23 <Alberth> Hmm, how to convince a town to grow? :p 09:40:35 <Eddi|zuHause> fund new buildings :) 09:40:45 <Zuu> Sara: Yes, it is not complete yet. Hopefully it can help someone, but there is for historic reasons more coverage in the wiki tutorials. 09:41:21 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: for 7,000 pound? not going to happen :) 09:41:24 <Sara> ok, i just built an airport :D 09:41:49 <Alberth> now another one :) 09:41:51 *** Jupix2 is now known as Jupix 09:42:00 <welshdragon> What's with the extra zoom levels on 1.2.0? 09:42:39 <Alberth> it's for showing how ugly the current sprites are at high zoom levels 09:43:19 <Alberth> alternatively, you can use it at a high resolution screen, or when your eye-sight is non-optimal 09:43:26 <planetmaker> 11:44 Alberth: I sort of like having lanes, it may work for path finding, but in an automatic way managed by the game, imho <-- you want to become my spokes person? Or do you got a mind reader hidden somewhere? 09:43:45 <Jupix> welshdragon: it's for this: http://wiki.openttd.org/Image:32bpp_fullzoom.jpg ;) 09:44:27 <welshdragon> oh, and with the depots being re-nameable, could the name be put in a sign automagically? 09:44:38 <Alberth> planetmaker: I have hidden a little box in your house during my last visit; I have had some troubles connecting to it, but it seems to work nicely now :p 09:44:48 <planetmaker> :-O 09:45:24 <planetmaker> probably somewhere in the fridge. Made it break down, I guess... 09:45:28 <welshdragon> Jupix: oh yeah, 32bpp xD 09:45:30 <Alberth> (no worries, my mind reader says you won't find it :) ) 09:45:37 <planetmaker> :-) 09:46:02 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: if you have no money to spend but want to scum up town growth.. two truck stops on the edge of town, preferably even touching, with one truck going rapidly between them 09:46:24 <planetmaker> you could also use a bus. Might even be better 09:46:37 <planetmaker> as it gives some money ;-) 09:47:01 <Rhamphoryncus> afaik they'll grow the same, but a bus will get higher volume and eventually be problematic 09:48:13 <Eddi|zuHause> use trams :) 09:48:16 <Alberth> I have 0 houses, so buses won't do much good :) 09:48:18 <Jupix> planetmaker: also can you please reply to my forum pm, thanks :P 09:48:49 <Alberth> but another town also had 0 house, and now it has 4 09:48:51 <peter1138> Forum PMs generally get ignored. Especially the crap from pervertedmonkey. 09:49:24 <Rhamphoryncus> When demolishing towns for experiments I've often seen them regrow. Dunno why 09:49:50 <Rhamphoryncus> Presumably a "town is NOT growing" is not so literal 09:49:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:50:16 <planetmaker> indeed, that I honestly forgot, Jupix :-) sorry 09:50:27 <Jupix> np 09:50:49 <Rhamphoryncus> and once you have the 1 house you can plaster it with 20 stations. So long as they get frequent service you'll get growth 09:50:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: yes, even completely unserviced towns grow at a ridiculously low speed 09:51:08 <Rhamphoryncus> Well, there might be a cap somewhere below 20 :) 09:51:09 <planetmaker> I had it even half-written... I'll forward it to you now 09:52:37 <planetmaker> in essence: we got the idea to somewhat totally modify the 'community' section of the main webpage with links to all related, like forums, facebook, google+ 09:53:19 <Jupix> are there any problems with that? 09:53:20 <planetmaker> As the stuff there is quite under-represented. Also a nice introduction / show-case video or so would need be picked etc 09:53:22 <peter1138> welshdragon, extra zoom levels are there so that there are extra zoom levels. Quite simple ;-) 09:53:35 * Alberth puts more roads down so the town does not have to do that 09:54:02 <peter1138> 32bpp or 8bpp is irrevelant, we had both of them for a good few years already. 09:54:49 <planetmaker> the question wrt facebook is how to treat the different facebook pages. Dunno whether they can or should be merged or what can be done there. I'm not much into facebook 09:55:14 <Jupix> i've got that. no need for you to worry about it 09:55:26 <Jupix> in a nutshell: they can be merged 09:56:22 <Jupix> when you're implementing the community page the important part is to link to the right one, which is the one i linked before 09:56:27 <planetmaker> I shall be happy about that. But it might need the other people to agree. 09:56:49 <planetmaker> and might need talking to facebook 09:57:02 <Jupix> yeah, i've already started talking with facebook 09:57:05 <Sara> is there a shortcut to close the active window? 09:57:14 <planetmaker> ok, sweet 09:57:37 <Jupix> out of curiosity, has anyone been actually working with the html? or is it just a plan for now 09:58:25 <Alberth> Sara: not really, except delete closes all windows 09:58:43 <Sara> maybe a sricpt 09:58:46 <Rhamphoryncus> Sara: not afaik, but there's an idea: have middle click close the targeted window (shift-middle click for pinned) 09:59:18 <planetmaker> Jupix: the website itself is written in Django 09:59:19 <Sara> thats useful 09:59:53 <Sara> what should i do when a plane has smoke ? 10:00:22 <planetmaker> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/extra/website 10:00:35 <Jupix> planetmaker: well, yeah.. i was just using "html" as an equivalent to whatever cms you guys were using :P 10:02:17 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable085.125-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 10:02:22 <drac_boy> hi 10:03:36 <Alberth> Sara: not much, it shows 'breakdown'. If it happens often, you may want to consider sending it more often for servicing 10:03:54 <Sara> ok,thx 10:09:19 *** th_gergo [~thiering@dhcp-54.mt.wlan.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 10:12:06 *** th_gergo1 [~thiering@dhcp-54.mt.wlan.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 10:12:07 *** th_gergo [~thiering@dhcp-54.mt.wlan.bme.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13:24 <welshdragon> seeing as nobody answered my second question: with the depots being re-nameable, could the name be put in a sign automagically? 10:14:24 *** tegro_ [~undefined@78-105-226-68.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:17:02 *** th_gergo1 [~thiering@dhcp-54.mt.wlan.bme.hu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:17:27 <drac_boy> I'll prefer not to, especially with depots next to station and having overlapped labels 10:17:40 <drac_boy> unless you can find a way to turn on or off selective labels which I doubt it :) 10:19:20 <Alberth> I turn station labels already off :) 10:20:24 *** tegro [~undefined@78-105-226-68.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:21:00 <drac_boy> I always have it on...but then I always have everything renamed...except trains themself 10:22:34 *** tegro_ [~undefined@78-105-226-68.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:24:43 *** tegro [~undefined@78-105-226-68.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:25:47 <andythenorth> bah 10:25:51 <andythenorth> alberth beat me 10:26:02 <Alberth> :) 10:26:26 <Alberth> the game is a bit slow, so I have time to browse the forum :) 10:27:06 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has joined #openttd 10:30:18 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 10:33:26 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:40:57 <Sara> ok, done the tutorial 10:41:04 <Sara> now i started a game 10:41:10 <Sara> whats the first thing to do ? 10:42:55 <Eddi|zuHause> many people start with a route from a coal mine to a power station 10:44:07 <FLHerne> Are you using any grfs, or just default everything? 10:44:36 <Sara> grfs? 10:45:32 <FLHerne> Basically, you can replace/improve pretty much anything in the game 10:46:08 <FLHerne> Links... http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_List" target="_blank">http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_List http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF 10:46:31 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-052-229.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:46:42 *** Firartix [~artixds@161.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 10:47:11 <FLHerne> They can do everything from replacing the graphics for trees to adding about 20 new industries :P 10:49:34 <Alberth> first just play with the default settings :) 10:50:12 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:51:21 *** goodger [~ben@94-30-43-248.xdsl.murphx.net] has joined #openttd 10:51:39 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:51:47 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-35-89.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:53:03 <FLHerne> Alberth: Possibly good advice ECS/FIRS can be a bit daunting ;) 10:53:35 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:54:19 <Alberth> are you trying to scare off new players?? :) 10:54:44 <Sara> trying to connect the power station 10:55:10 <FLHerne> Alberth: Nah, but explaining the existence of NewGRFs is probably a good idea :D 10:55:36 * Alberth agrees 10:55:57 <drac_boy> heh FLHerne I dunno, I'll rather not 10:56:05 <drac_boy> :) 10:57:38 <FLHerne> Once tried to show a friend OTTD but didn't remove my standard (huge) grf list... 10:58:25 <FLHerne> Luckily he stuck around long enough to remove them and start another game :D 11:01:05 * FLHerne wanders off 11:03:18 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:05:39 <andythenorth> ooh 11:05:45 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause made a tutorial for pixa :) 11:05:46 <andythenorth> thanks 11:13:50 <andythenorth> no frosch :( 11:14:21 <andythenorth> is there a peter1138? 11:14:37 * andythenorth is thinking of hacking this in: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=59570&sid=e572db6406e190ee258b5cb8e4a5f1ed 11:17:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so why make a flag, when you could just as well make a industry-construction-callback? 11:18:08 <andythenorth> because I'm not sure a new cb is needed? 11:18:17 <andythenorth> it could gain a new cb number and do the same thing though 11:20:00 <Eddi|zuHause> new callbacks are cheap ;) 11:20:30 <andythenorth> brb 11:33:09 <peter1138> cheepcheep 11:36:06 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:38:37 <Sara> is there a shortcut for pause? 11:39:48 <Eddi|zuHause> F1 or Pause 11:40:02 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has joined #openttd 11:40:16 <Sara> thx 11:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> F2, F3 and so on operate the other keys in the menu bar. except fast forward 11:42:08 <Sara> ok, is there a way to delete only trafficlight on the railroads, not whole tracks? 11:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> select build signal, and then the bulldozer (or "R" key) 11:43:15 <Eddi|zuHause> works the same way with individual rail bits, or single station tiles 11:43:54 <Sara> ok, that saved me a lot of money :P 11:45:24 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> also "A", "S", "Q"/"W"/E" and "D" are important keys for me :) 11:47:01 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and the most important of all: "X" 11:49:04 * drac_boy would had also noted T to build tunnels too except that ottd treats it badly wrong :) 11:49:06 <drac_boy> heh heh 11:49:16 <Zuu> and Ctrl+X 11:49:45 <Zuu> (to gain better control over the transparency) 11:51:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so the flag is intended to be a cb flag, not a special flag (dunno if that was clear) 11:51:55 <andythenorth> and I guess the cb would need a new number so it can be explicitly handled in the grf 11:52:37 <andythenorth> but in other respects it just runs the production change cb 11:52:48 <andythenorth> I don't see any reason to make it more complex... 11:54:54 <Sara> how to remove two broke trains, they run into each other? 11:57:12 <drac_boy> wait for it to self-cleanup 11:57:15 <drac_boy> thats all you can do 11:57:25 <drac_boy> why did you crash them in first place tho? heh heh 11:59:06 <Sara> :p i have 2 trains 11:59:14 <Sara> they go to the same power station 11:59:29 <Sara> i cant figure out the signals right 12:00:34 <Sara> how do i make screenshots ? 12:00:43 <Sara> i can show u what ive done :P 12:02:08 <planetmaker> ctrl+s 12:02:34 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:09:49 <Sara> http://img-host.eu/di/6DTG/Olsztynek Wielki Transport, 28my Lis 1954.png 12:10:51 <Sara> i want the trains to go only if they can 12:13:33 <planetmaker> that image doesn't load for me... nor does the main webpage of that host appear here 12:13:58 <planetmaker> maybe try imagebin.org 12:14:45 <Alberth> you need to copy the entire line :) 12:14:59 <drac_boy> sara you need more than one tile for stations 12:15:11 <drac_boy> otherwise over-lengthed trains = takes a long time to load at all 12:16:00 <planetmaker> Alberth, I did... but my browser was connecting to the host for minutes... 12:16:16 <Alberth> place a two-way block signal at the left-green and the red dot 12:16:24 <planetmaker> or rather waiting for 12:16:25 <Sara> ok, but how do i coordinate the two trains to wait for each other 12:16:54 <Alberth> they do that by themselves 12:17:36 <Alberth> there can be only one train in a 'block', an area of tracks that has no signal in them 12:17:54 <telanus> planetmaker: http://goput.it/jke.png 12:18:14 <telanus> uloaded sara's pic 12:18:17 <planetmaker> works, thx, telanus 12:18:33 <Sara> which one is the two way? 12:18:45 <Sara> number from the left ? 12:19:06 <planetmaker> Sara, in the setup as you show, I'd set a signal each at the red dot and the left green dot. Both facing towards the junction, if they're path signals. Or two-way block signals 12:19:32 <planetmaker> two-way is the one with two signals. You switch between one-way and two-way by clicking on the built signal 12:19:45 <planetmaker> or shift-clicking. Don't recall :-P 12:20:02 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:23:20 <Alberth> Sara: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/signals.png 12:23:47 <Alberth> at the right are two-way block signals, at the left are path signals 12:24:22 <Sara> http://img-host.eu/di/L8UE/Untitled.jpg 12:24:27 <Sara> i did it wrong :( 12:24:50 <planetmaker> no, you didn't do it wrong, sara 12:24:51 <Alberth> sorry, my image is wrong 12:25:16 * Alberth has trouble with left and right :) 12:25:19 <planetmaker> depends on where your powerplant is, Alberth :-) 12:25:31 <planetmaker> in the upper left: also correct :-) 12:25:45 <planetmaker> I like your rail NewGRF ;-) 12:26:31 <Alberth> image updated, sorry for the confusion 12:26:42 <andythenorth> so what number should this new cb have? 12:26:48 <planetmaker> n+1 12:27:10 <Sara> i still dont know how to do it in my case 12:27:17 <planetmaker> you did it right, Sara ! 12:27:29 <Sara> its not working 12:27:42 <Sara> the trains are w8 in front of each other 12:27:42 <planetmaker> the image you posted shows that it works... 12:27:57 <planetmaker> unless they go to the same two stations... 12:28:37 <andythenorth> cb 15F - production change on industry construction 12:28:45 <andythenorth> now how to add it? :P 12:29:55 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-35-89.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:30:04 <planetmaker> there's already a production change callback. Its code should just be re-used 12:30:14 <andythenorth> yes, that's my proposal ;) 12:30:26 <planetmaker> thus check how the 256 tick, ... callbacks are implemented 12:30:29 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=59570 12:30:43 <andythenorth> what I don't know is if I can reuse IndustryMonthlyLoop() 12:30:55 <andythenorth> or if I have to duplicate everything in that to a new function 12:31:06 <andythenorth> L2681 in industry_cmd.cpp 12:31:13 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 12:31:17 <Sara> i have to start over 12:31:23 <andythenorth> I would literally be duplicating it just to prevent the name being wrong afaict :P 12:31:25 <Sara> it dosnt work 12:32:00 <andythenorth> hmm 12:32:18 <andythenorth> maybe not, IndustryMonthlyLoop() does all industries, whereas during construction one industry is in scope 12:32:19 <andythenorth> I assume 12:32:49 <planetmaker> IndustryMonthlyLoop() surely also calls somewhere the prod. change CB of the industry - if defined 12:33:01 <andythenorth> yes. The puzzling bit is I don't know if I need to do the stuff like backup company etc 12:33:03 <planetmaker> the rest is - from your perspective - clutter 12:33:18 <andythenorth> unless it's essential for reasons I don't understand :P 12:33:45 <andythenorth> UpdateIndustryStatistics should be meaningless at this point, as it's just been constructed 12:33:57 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest1191 12:34:03 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-35-89.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:34:08 <andythenorth> SetWindowDirty might be needed 12:34:58 <andythenorth> or maybe not, maybe DoCreateNewIndustry() handles that already 12:34:59 <andythenorth> meh 12:35:06 <andythenorth> :) 12:35:22 <andythenorth> this is a worthwhile patch though 12:35:29 <planetmaker> that's where you want to check for the callback being needed, yes. 12:35:56 <andythenorth> ok, I'll try it and see what goes wrong 12:36:00 <andythenorth> nobody has said it's stupid 12:36:11 <planetmaker> "it's stupid" 12:36:15 <andythenorth> ok 12:36:15 <planetmaker> to not want it :-P 12:36:19 * andythenorth place bet that reasons will be found to not include it 12:36:39 <andythenorth> but anyway, patch first, moan later :P 12:38:32 *** Guest1191 [~chatzilla@host86-154-35-89.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:41:06 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 12:41:47 <planetmaker> Sara, you'll also find after many years of playing constructions where you'll think "wth, why doesn't it work like I thought" :-) 12:42:10 <Sara> :) 12:42:14 <planetmaker> building intricate networks is on of the major fun in this game. For me at least 12:42:24 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-052-229.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 12:42:28 <planetmaker> there's a zillion ways to play this game, though 12:42:56 * drac_boy usually plays in the style of individual lines tho 12:43:04 <drac_boy> but thats to our own habit/style I guess :) 12:44:48 <Sara> i get back to this later 12:44:51 <Sara> thx for all 12:44:52 <Sara> bye 12:45:04 <Alberth> bye 12:45:11 *** Sara [~Sara@195.117.110.92] has quit [Quit: Wychodzi] 12:45:41 <drac_boy> andythenorth have fun btw :-P I'm going for a while now. got two things to do -_- 12:45:46 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable085.125-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 12:48:46 *** Guest560 [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:34 <andythenorth> ok 12:52:40 <andythenorth> this not nearly so easy as I thought 12:52:42 <andythenorth> :( 12:52:51 * andythenorth needs help from actual....developer 12:53:27 <andythenorth> ChangeIndustryProduction assumes either monthly or random production change cb 12:53:33 <andythenorth> I can't just reuse it elsewhere 12:53:40 <andythenorth> has to be unpicked :P 12:54:27 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has joined #openttd 12:55:06 *** AD is now known as Guest1192 12:55:26 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:01:19 <andythenorth> checking for the cb twice seems stupid 13:02:27 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 13:07:36 *** th_gergo [~thiering@2E6B2A8B.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 13:13:09 <andythenorth> if I have 13:13:09 <andythenorth> bool callback_enabled = HasBit(indspec->callback_mask, monthly ? CBM_IND_MONTHLYPROD_CHANGE : CBM_IND_PRODUCTION_CHANGE); 13:13:30 <andythenorth> can I simply append ': CBM_IND_PROD_CHANGE_BUILD' with another 13:13:57 <andythenorth> another / it /s 13:18:03 <andythenorth> looks a bit like an OR to me :P 13:19:18 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:21:46 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fdf9b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:22:12 <andythenorth> quak 13:23:27 <andythenorth> uncanny timing :P 13:24:02 <andythenorth> so how do I write this so it *will* compile? 13:24:02 <andythenorth> bool callback_enabled = HasBit(indspec->callback_mask, monthly ? CBM_IND_MONTHLYPROD_CHANGE : CBM_IND_PRODUCTION_CHANGE : CBM_IND_PROD_CHANGE_BUILD); 13:24:05 <andythenorth> currently fails :P 13:27:31 <andythenorth> so this is the ternary operator? 13:27:34 <frosch123> not enough information 13:27:39 * andythenorth might need some comp sci boot camp :P 13:28:28 <andythenorth> frosch123: I'm trying to patch to add an industry cb which will call ChangeIndustryProduction() from DoCreateNewIndustry() 13:28:40 <andythenorth> e.g. call production change on industry construction 13:30:07 <andythenorth> I've added CBM_IND_PROD_CHANGE_BUILD and CBID_INDUSTRY_PROD_CHANGE_BUILD to newgrf_callbacks.h 13:31:33 <andythenorth> and I've added ChangeIndustryProduction(i, false); to DoCreateNewIndustry() 13:32:44 <NGC3982> hm, i think i need a tip on train- or bus grfs 13:32:47 <NGC3982> <1950 13:32:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: can't have two : 13:33:12 * andythenorth learns something 13:33:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so what is the logic you are trying to write? 13:33:38 <andythenorth> if (cb = monthly or cb = random or cb = on_build) 13:34:31 <andythenorth> L2456 in industry_cmd.cpp 13:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's an "if-then-else" operator. ite(a) { if (a) { return b; } else {return c; } } 13:34:48 <Eddi|zuHause> err.. ite(a,b,c) 13:35:22 <andythenorth> ah 13:35:33 <andythenorth> I was reading the purpose of that wrong then 13:35:50 <andythenorth> so that's evaluating if it's the monthly cb or not 13:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so what you probably rather want to say is "for bit in [bit1, bit2, bit3]: result |= HasBit(mask, bit)" 13:36:30 <Eddi|zuHause> or did i understand you wrong? 13:36:34 <andythenorth> I'm not sure 13:36:53 <andythenorth> I thought I knew what this block of code did, but I read it again and maybe I don't 13:37:32 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:37:39 <Chris_Booth> andythenorth that is so often the case! 13:38:12 <andythenorth> nothing I've learnt in 15 years of scripting prepares me for C++ :P 13:39:17 <andythenorth> so the bool 'monthly' is passed to ChangeIndustryProduction() so it knows what cb is in use 13:39:35 <andythenorth> but adding a third possible cb value won't work their 13:39:37 <andythenorth> there /s 13:39:44 <andythenorth> so either not a bool, or another bool 13:40:24 <andythenorth> can I safely pass around the actual CB number and check that as a case? 13:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> turn the bool into an enum 13:43:40 <andythenorth> enum is a list type? 13:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> no, a named numerical type 13:44:18 * andythenorth googles 13:44:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19ABA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause> enum Colours { RED = 1, YELLOW = 2, GREEN = 3} 13:44:43 <andythenorth> so I don't need a named type? 13:45:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can assign "colour = 1" or "colour = RED" 13:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and do "colour = colour + 1" 13:45:42 <andythenorth> and when I want to do something conditional with the value? 13:45:54 <planetmaker> they're just values 13:46:09 <andythenorth> so I have to write 'if foo == 1' 13:46:10 <andythenorth> ? 13:46:14 <Eddi|zuHause> switch (colour) { case RED: blah; case GREEN: blah2; default: blah3; } 13:46:19 <andythenorth> or 'if foo == RED' 13:46:23 <planetmaker> both work 13:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you can do both 13:46:48 <andythenorth> ¿ and I don't want to mix this up with values like CBM_IND_MONTHLYPROD_CHANGE 13:46:55 <andythenorth> that would be wrong? 13:47:03 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 13:47:40 <andythenorth> so enum CallbackType { MONTHLY = 0, RANDOM = 1, BUILD = 2} 13:47:40 <andythenorth> ? 13:48:04 <Eddi|zuHause> almost 13:49:09 <andythenorth> can I declare the enum inside the function parameters for ChangeIndustryProduction()? Or does it have to be outside the function? 13:49:10 <Eddi|zuHause> probably something like "typedef enum IndustryCallbackTypes { ICT_MONTHLY, ICT_RANDOM, ICT_CONSTRUCTION } IndustryCallbackType;" 13:49:24 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it has to be in a header file 13:49:33 <Eddi|zuHause> (or it should be) 13:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> you can leave out the = 0, =1 etc. if it starts with 0 and increments by 1 each time 13:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> the typedef is an ease of use thingie 13:51:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the type can be either named as "enum IndustryCallbackTypes" every time you declare a variable, or "IndustryCallbackType", saving you the "enum" 13:52:56 <andythenorth> k 13:53:32 <andythenorth> any clue which header file it should be in? I'm modifying industry_cmd.cpp 13:53:39 <andythenorth> there's no accompanying industry_cmd.h 13:53:54 <andythenorth> industry.h? 13:54:05 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause> industry_type.h 13:57:56 <Eddi|zuHause> because it's a type 14:02:01 <andythenorth> ta 14:02:33 * NGC3982 loves the NUTS trainset. 14:03:03 <Chris_Booth> NGC3982 thank V453000 for that 14:03:36 <NGC3982> i just started using it 14:03:47 <NGC3982> ive been longing for a very early set like that 14:03:55 <NGC3982> starting at 1920 makes a whole new feel 14:04:02 <NGC3982> Chris_Booth: what, he made it? :) 14:04:09 <Chris_Booth> yes he did 14:04:19 <Chris_Booth> read the NewGRF thingy 14:04:25 <NGC3982> neat! 14:04:39 <NGC3982> V453000: great work with the NUTS train set. 14:05:50 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: This is C++, not C :) No need for the typedef stuff or an "enum" in front of variable declarations. 14:06:02 <Chris_Booth> have you played it all the way to 3000 NGC3982? 14:06:08 <NGC3982> Chris_Booth: nope, just started. 14:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: hm... then i remember old things :) 14:06:45 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1341/ 14:06:54 <andythenorth> so I've added that to industry_type.cpp 14:06:57 <andythenorth> oops .h 14:07:08 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:07:09 <V453000> :) thanks NGC3982 14:07:33 <andythenorth> so I want to change this from 'bool monthly' 14:07:33 <andythenorth> static void ChangeIndustryProduction(Industry *i, bool monthly) 14:07:39 <Chris_Booth> well NGC3982 it goes all the way to 3000 and you get a train every few years 14:07:45 <V453000> lol 14:07:51 <andythenorth> static void ChangeIndustryProduction(Industry *i, enum CallbackType) 14:07:52 <andythenorth> ? 14:07:58 <NGC3982> Chris_Booth: neat^googolplex. 14:08:39 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:02 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:09:22 <NGC3982> V453000: when do you feel it suitable to start using the electical engines in the NUTS grf? 14:09:53 <michi_cc> andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1342/ 14:10:05 <andythenorth> Internal Server Error :P 14:10:20 <planetmaker> delete you cookies 14:10:21 <michi_cc> Ah, the 'reply' error :) 14:10:40 <andythenorth> does that pastebin require cookies? 14:10:46 <planetmaker> works for me, the link, michi_cc 14:10:53 <V453000> NGC3982: depends what your network looks like :) 14:10:55 <planetmaker> andythenorth, it has some session cookie 14:11:06 <andythenorth> does it have a cookies statement? 14:11:10 *** goodger [~ben@94-30-43-248.xdsl.murphx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:11:18 <planetmaker> a what? 14:12:11 <andythenorth> under EU law, enforceable from May (in the UK), users have to give explicit permission for cookies 14:12:26 <planetmaker> UK law is not applicable to me 14:12:32 <andythenorth> EU law will be 14:12:33 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/about/ 14:12:34 <andythenorth> where is the server? 14:12:46 <andythenorth> (there is an exemption for session cookies, but a clear cookie statement is still required) 14:13:14 <andythenorth> anyway 14:13:19 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Expanded example: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1343/ 14:13:22 <andythenorth> it's an insane law and hardly anyone is going to comply :P 14:13:37 <andythenorth> michi_cc: thanks 14:13:59 <andythenorth> currently I have a non-compiling openttd, and a toddler sitting on me saying 'make choo choo' 14:13:59 <michi_cc> CBID_IND_PROD_CHANGE_BUILD actually, not CBM_IND_PROD_CHANGE_BUILD (Assuming you named the stuff properly) 14:14:11 <andythenorth> he knows the terminal window builds openttd :P 14:14:42 <michi_cc> Always have a second checkout around :) 14:16:44 <NGC3982> V453000: i guess. 14:16:52 <NGC3982> V453000: tis' be really neat, anyhow. 14:17:19 <V453000> all train classes are useful in some way. You just have the ability to choose the best one for your network 14:20:25 *** Sara [~Thomas@bbe199.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:20:49 <Sara> hi again :) 14:21:19 <Mazur> Hello. 14:22:12 <andythenorth> michi_cc: look plausible? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1344/ 14:22:25 <andythenorth> sorry I had to paste long code to avoid breaking context :P 14:22:48 <andythenorth> L1 and L15-25 are the changes 14:23:24 <michi_cc> "bool callback_enabled = (cb != NOT_REACHED);" doesn't make sense. NOT_REACHED isn't some assignment, but a macro that will bomb you out to an error message :) 14:24:06 <andythenorth> ok 14:24:08 <andythenorth> hmm 14:24:30 <andythenorth> isn't something like 'if cb == None' better there? but I'm thinking python 14:26:33 <Mazur> michi_cc, != is not an assignment, either, it's a comparison, with a result, that presumably can be assigned. 14:27:01 <michi_cc> "default: NOT_REACHED();" doesn't do anything, it is only there to a) raise an assert if somebody passes garbage in type, and b) to prevent warnings on some compilers. 14:28:02 <michi_cc> Anyway, the switch I pasted is only the the callback param to GetIndustryCallback and should be inside "if (callback_enabled)". The callback enabled stuff needs a second switch. 14:29:01 <andythenorth> ok 14:29:04 *** Saraa [~Thomas@acoh16.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:29:34 <andythenorth> that would check CBM_ rather CBID_ 14:29:36 <michi_cc> Instead of cb = ... you'd use callback_enabled = HasBit(... there. 14:31:34 <andythenorth> do I check for any valid cb being enabled? 14:31:50 <andythenorth> or do I have to check for each of the known prod. cbs specifically? 14:32:31 <andythenorth> i.e. 'callback_enabled = true if (monthly or random or build)' 14:32:45 <andythenorth> or 'if build (check bitmask for build)' etc 14:33:35 <Saraa> what do i do with wheat? 14:34:30 <michi_cc> You have to check for the CB you want to execute, checking for some other CB doesn't make much sense. 14:34:40 *** Sara [~Thomas@bbe199.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:35:58 *** Saraa [~Thomas@acoh16.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:36:17 *** Saraa [~Thomas@acoh16.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:36:36 <planetmaker> Saraa, check the industry tree. click the industry you got it from and you'll find that button 14:37:31 * NGC3982 tries a load loop. 14:37:37 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Cargo 14:38:42 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/LKPx1.png 14:38:49 <NGC3982> should that improve rating? 14:41:15 <Saraa> ok, got it 14:41:25 <Saraa> why is my train button noe enabled ? 14:41:30 <Saraa> why is my train button not enabled ? 14:42:26 <Alberth> train button? 14:42:31 <andythenorth> so I need to wrap 'cb_enabled = ( cb = ICT_MONTHLY && if hasbit = CBM_IND_MONTHLYPROD_CHANGE) || (other checks)' 14:42:40 <Saraa> the button where u build rails 14:42:59 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-219-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 14:43:00 <Alberth> too early in game years? 14:43:11 <Saraa> oh 14:43:15 <Saraa> right :) 14:43:20 * andythenorth should find pseudo code that *doesn't* look like bad C++ :P 14:44:16 * Alberth hopes some =-es are actually == :) 14:44:30 <Saraa> what do i do now 14:44:35 <Saraa> i cant build anything 14:44:36 <Saraa> :P 14:44:45 <andythenorth> Alberth indeed 14:45:05 <andythenorth> CallbackID seems magical 14:45:12 <Alberth> either wait until the game has progressed enough, or regenerate with a better starting year 14:45:21 <andythenorth> there's nothing that assigns declares it as the value of the parameter IndustryCallbackType 14:45:27 <andythenorth> +or 14:45:29 <Alberth> where 'wait' can be done with the fast-forward >> button 14:45:55 <Alberth> default starting year is 1950 14:46:06 <Alberth> I think a bit before there are vehicles 14:47:14 <Alberth> newgrf_callbacks.h 22:enum CallbackID { <-- like here? :) 14:48:20 <Alberth> or maybe I don't understand your question :) 14:48:41 <andythenorth> hmm 14:48:50 <andythenorth> hard to phrase whilst entertaining a toddler 14:49:04 <andythenorth> currently ChangeIndustryProduction is passed a bool for 'monthly' 14:49:10 <andythenorth> which I'm replacing with an enum 14:49:15 <andythenorth> it's used to figure out the cb type 14:49:25 <Alberth> ok 14:49:26 <andythenorth> but then I'm using it to check the cb type? 14:49:31 <andythenorth> seems confusing 14:49:56 <Alberth> more like the cb to call would be my first guess 14:50:02 <andythenorth> ah 14:50:27 <Mazur> Goddamn the popes asses! 14:50:30 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:50:43 <Alberth> it's a cb from newgrf perspective, and a function to call from openttd perspective :) 14:50:51 <Mazur> The cabinet has gone the way of all cheap furniture. 14:50:53 * andythenorth is assisting with watering the garden 14:50:59 *** Tanguy [~tanguy@2a01:e34:ee8f:150:208:9bff:febe:e3d3] has joined #openttd 14:51:02 <Tanguy> Hello. 14:51:03 <Mazur> Rejoice, one and all! 14:51:05 <NGC3982> programming and gardening 14:51:05 <andythenorth> my laptop is being rained on :P 14:51:08 <NGC3982> what a life <3. 14:51:32 <andythenorth> yes, the toddler is watering the garden in the rain 14:51:33 <Alberth> hi Tanguy 14:52:01 <Tanguy> I have heard that the new version 1.2.0 has some kind of support for 32bpp graphics (although I am quite sure that I already heard something like that quite before that last release). 14:52:02 <Alberth> andythenorth: of course his water is much better than the stuff from the sky :p 14:53:03 <Alberth> Tanguy: yep, and yep 14:53:10 <Tanguy> I went through the wiki and saw quite a lot of distinct, sometimes incompatible explanations on where to download files to get [32 bit graphics, perhaps extra zoom levels?] and what to do to enable them. 14:53:35 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/RrsuP.png 14:53:38 <Alberth> having support != have graphics :) 14:53:50 <Tanguy> Sure. 14:54:00 <NGC3982> the moment when you forget you added a swedish house set and notices your country flag everywhere on the map. 14:54:43 <Tanguy> Now, somehow I got a file called 32bit-gfx-nightly-megapack-2011-04-16.tar, which I put to my ~/.openttd/newgrf, and defined [misc] blitter = 32bpp-simple in openttd.cfg. 14:55:03 <Tanguy> Which changed absolutely nothing. I guess this is not the way to go? 14:55:15 <Alberth> Tanguy: there was a patch for 32bpp graphics + extra zoom. A little while before 1.2 was a similar idea merged into trunk, and it is now in the 1.2 release 14:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i kinda doubt that will work 14:55:27 <Alberth> the old patch does not work any more 14:55:43 <Tanguy> Okay. I am using OpenTTD 1.2.0 from Debian sid. 14:56:08 <Alberth> and so far nobody has made a useful new graphics newgrf 14:56:57 <Tanguy> Okay, so I guess I should just forget that for now. 14:57:01 <Alberth> but much more important, there are not many graphics yet 14:57:20 <Alberth> so that's where help is needed 14:58:06 <Tanguy> Well, too bad I suck at graphics then. 14:58:23 <Alberth> this is your chance to get good at it :p 14:59:21 <Mazur> 3 cheers for the Dutch cabinet! 15:00:37 <Mazur> Gone to pieces like a softboard dining table. 15:00:42 <Mazur> Yay! 15:05:08 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1345/ 15:05:10 <andythenorth> L16-20 15:05:10 <andythenorth> ?? 15:05:13 <andythenorth> might work? 15:05:45 <andythenorth> I assume that ICT_MONTHLY etc are magically in scope 15:06:41 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-125-94.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:07:45 <andythenorth> doesn't compile :P 15:07:57 <andythenorth> 10 errors 15:08:21 * andythenorth really hoped that if stat was enough 15:08:33 <andythenorth> agh, typing with toddlers :P 15:08:50 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=59365 <- hmm, who would be offended if i would post that doing 1000 useful posts is indeed a challenge? :p 15:10:43 <FLHerne> Tanguy: About the only new-style 32bpp grf is the 8/32bpp Trains one 15:12:47 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-125-94.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:14:34 <michi_cc> andythenorth: You want to check if the callback type is ICT_MONTHLY and the monthly CBM is set, or ....., don't you? Which translates directly to "type == ICT_MONTHLY && HasBit(...) || ....". Alternatively, and better readably especially if there every would be a forth type, use a switch as well, replacing e.g. "cb = CBID_INDUSTRY_MONTHLYPROD_CHANGE" with "callback_enabled = HasBit(this->callback_mask, CBM_IND_MONTHLYPROD_CHANGE)" and so on. 15:14:58 <Saraa> where do i deliver houses? 15:16:21 <andythenorth> michi_cc: I prefer the switch ;) 15:16:54 <andythenorth> so in this line "static void ChangeIndustryProduction(Industry *i, IndustryCallbackType type)" 15:17:03 <andythenorth> is type a keyword, or a variable name? 15:17:26 <michi_cc> A variable name, like always in C(++). 15:18:14 <michi_cc> [storage class] Type [additional specifiers] Name [= Initializer]; 15:18:59 <andythenorth> k 15:19:42 <FLHerne> Saraa: Deliver houses?? 15:19:50 <Saraa> i produce houses 15:19:57 <Saraa> what do i do with that ? 15:20:19 <michi_cc> The only ugly thing in C++ variable/paramenter declarations is the * operator, because it is right-associative. It means "pointer to type" (i.e. "Industry *i" means that i is a pointer to an variable of type Industry), but it binds to the name, not the type. 15:20:55 <FLHerne> Saraa: Do you mean passengers? 15:20:59 * FLHerne is confused 15:21:08 <Saraa> i have a factory 15:21:11 <michi_cc> So contrary to what you might except "int * a, b;" to do, it does not declare *two* pointers, but just one. "int * a, * b;" would do that instead. 15:21:21 <Saraa> and its producing smth 15:21:27 <Saraa> what do i do with that 15:22:21 <michi_cc> Saraa: You find and industry that accepts it, except if it is Goods, Mail or Passengers, which have to be delivered to a town. 15:22:45 <Saraa> i have goods 15:22:49 <michi_cc> (and Food if you play in tropical or artic climate). 15:23:05 <Saraa> just transport to the town ? 15:24:29 <michi_cc> You need a station that accepts Goods, which in turn means a station that has enough big houses in its converage. If you are building a station, you should see two lines for what the station would accept and supply (I hope, unless that is for whatever reason not enabled by default). 15:25:45 <michi_cc> Like in http://wiki.openttd.org/images/4/4e/Tutorial_bus_2.png 15:26:24 <Saraa> i just transport the goods to a station in the town 15:26:30 <Saraa> where it is attached to houses 15:27:13 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 15:28:54 <michi_cc> A station doesn't need to be attached to anything, you can see what is covered if you turn on the coverage are highlight. A station will accept Goods if enough houses that accept goods are in the coverage area. Small towns might not have enough such houses, but bigger towns generally have. 15:31:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C61B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:51 * andythenorth now has only 4 errors :P 15:33:24 <andythenorth> gah 15:33:31 <andythenorth> wtf is 'monthly' also being used for? 15:33:44 <andythenorth> it's a bool, yet seems to be able to store value of economy type :P 15:33:49 <andythenorth> L2500 in industry_cmd.cpp 15:34:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C61B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:35:02 * andythenorth figures that one out 15:37:03 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 15:37:34 <andythenorth> how do I put 'ChangeIndustryProduction()' in scope for 'DoCreateNewIndustry()' 15:37:34 <andythenorth> ? 15:39:35 <andythenorth> In function âvoid DoCreateNewIndustry(Industry*, TileIndex, IndustryType, const IndustryTileTable*, byte, Town*, Owner, uint16)â: 15:39:44 <andythenorth> src/industry_cmd.cpp:1722: error: âChangeIndustryProductionâ was not declared in this scope 15:39:50 * NGC3982 watches the matrix and wants a new map type. 15:42:45 <andythenorth> hmm 15:43:05 <andythenorth> is ChangeIndustryProduction() only in scope if an industry object is in scope? 15:43:14 <frosch123> oh no, i found a typo in a 4 years old post of mine, now i cannot edit it to fix it :p 15:43:16 <NGC3982> i cant decide if a matrix or tron map type would be preferable. 15:43:34 <NGC3982> a 01 map would be really, really cool 15:43:50 <andythenorth> oh 15:43:50 <NGC3982> since the matrix universe has quite detailed info on harversters and battery fields. 15:44:07 <andythenorth> in C++ does a function have to be declared before any call to it? 15:44:16 <andythenorth> similar to...other languages :P 15:44:22 <NGC3982> it does in C#, afaik. 15:44:34 * NGC3982 thinks. 15:45:09 <andythenorth> frosch123 can I call ChangeIndustryProduction() from L1722 if it's declared on L2442? :P 15:46:18 <frosch123> why are you actually using that function? 15:46:33 <frosch123> 80% of its return values make no sense on construction 15:46:42 <andythenorth> to avoid duplication? 15:47:07 <andythenorth> the only value that I thought didn't make sense was 'close' 15:47:09 <frosch123> better create a new callback to set production rate (and multipliers!) as well as spawning custom news messages for opening instead of the default ones 15:47:12 <andythenorth> and even that could be valid 15:47:31 <andythenorth> which other values did I miss being invalid? :) 15:47:51 <frosch123> it makes no sense to spawn two news messages at the same time 15:48:00 <frosch123> one about being opened, one about a production change 15:48:16 <andythenorth> I was going to suppress the news message depending on cb type... 15:48:21 <frosch123> also you would likely change the news item depending on the funding method 15:48:28 <andythenorth> true 15:48:29 <frosch123> though i guess there is already a variable for that 15:48:42 <andythenorth> I don't mind an entirely new cb... 15:48:54 <andythenorth> I'm just hacking as the best way to get opinions :P 15:49:00 <andythenorth> seems to beat pondering 15:49:12 <frosch123> oh, i thought custom news was the idea behind using a similiar callback :s 15:49:25 <frosch123> without news it makes even less sense to use the same return values 15:50:50 <andythenorth> in my case, all I need is the ability to shift current production multiplier (rate?) by some value) 15:51:01 <andythenorth> if it's done cleanly, and there are other cases in future... 15:51:07 <andythenorth> ...they could be added as return values? 15:51:50 <frosch123> you could just return the value directly 15:52:06 <andythenorth> is the current value available to me during construction? 15:52:12 <andythenorth> or is it always 16 at build? 15:52:13 <frosch123> why so complicated case for double/half/custom value? 15:52:22 <frosch123> yes, it's always 16 15:52:31 <andythenorth> I thought it would just be simpler to reuse existing code :P 15:52:35 <andythenorth> hence modify ChangeIndustryProduction() 15:52:44 <andythenorth> if it's not .... then it's not 15:53:34 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-41-74.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:54:23 * andythenorth hacks 15:54:42 <frosch123> so, i think something like: bits 0-7 production rate, bit 8: use custom news message from register 100 or so 15:55:18 <andythenorth> something like this, in DoCreateNewIndustry? 15:55:19 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1346/ 15:55:33 <andythenorth> with error checking and bit unpacking 15:55:49 <frosch123> likely you want 7 or 8 bits, not 4 15:55:57 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-35-89.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120411064248]] 15:56:34 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 15:57:19 <andythenorth> what error checking do I need to do? 15:57:54 <frosch123> i guess clamp the returned range 15:58:00 <frosch123> similar to ChangeProduction 15:58:08 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-125-94.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:58:09 <frosch123> maybe you also need to calculate the production rate 15:58:50 <frosch123> i.e. call RecomputeProductionMultipliers(); 15:59:12 <frosch123> i->prod_level = Clamp(GB(GetRegister(0x100), 16, 8), PRODLEVEL_MINIMUM, PRODLEVEL_MAXIMUM); <- i guess do something like that for the return value 15:59:38 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-114-19.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:00:38 * andythenorth tests a compile 16:01:28 <frosch123> maybe also call ErrorUnknownCallbackResult if the returned value is too big 16:02:51 <NGC3982> how much can i expect town growth to increase if i add roads to it? 16:03:25 <NGC3982> is there some irrational value to how easy new buildings form around adjacent roads? 16:03:33 <NGC3982> rational* 16:03:51 <frosch123> iirc everytime a town decides to grow it either plants a road or a house 16:04:02 <andythenorth> something like? 16:04:02 <andythenorth> if (GB(res, 8, 11) != 0) ErrorUnknownCallbackResult(indspec->grf_prop.grffile->grfid, CBID_INDUSTRY_PROD_CHANGE_BUILD, res); 16:04:03 <frosch123> so, if there are already roads, it is more likely to plant houses 16:04:06 <andythenorth> with correct values? 16:04:32 <frosch123> yup, with correct values :) 16:04:33 <andythenorth> does it need to break? 16:04:42 <andythenorth> some cbs seem to break on error, some don't 16:04:51 <frosch123> they break loops 16:05:02 <frosch123> but you won't be able to cancel construction at that point 16:05:04 <NGC3982> frosch123: thus, adding roads myself doesnt help the town grow? or do i help it choose between roads or houses (since the roads is already there, in that extent)? :) 16:05:16 <frosch123> yes, the latter 16:05:39 <andythenorth> hmm 16:05:43 <andythenorth> correct values 16:05:47 <frosch123> basically you can increase the house construction by the amount a town builds roads without you 16:06:29 <NGC3982> frosch123: ah, i see. 16:06:32 <NGC3982> frosch123: thank you. 16:07:07 <frosch123> you're welcome 16:08:44 <andythenorth> frosch123: I should check if res > PRODLEVEL_MAXIMUM ? 16:08:50 <andythenorth> and < PRODLEVEL_MINIMUM ? 16:08:51 <V453000> it is possible to grow a town to about 2 million population if you provide enough roads 16:09:05 <V453000> above 2 millions, but it is very hard afterwards 16:09:30 <Saraa> If i have a simple cross in rails what signals should i use ? 16:10:57 <frosch123> andythenorth: yeah, might be useful as well 16:11:18 <frosch123> V453000: the population is meaningless 16:11:28 <frosch123> a town growth in number of houses 16:11:37 <V453000> true 16:11:39 <frosch123> how much population a house is depends on the grf 16:11:49 <NGC3982> i fail to see how the size can be relevant 16:12:02 <NGC3982> unless station spread is set to some kind of witchcraft. 16:12:04 <frosch123> if you use something stupid like ttrs with only skyscrapers, all towns become big very fast 16:12:35 <Saraa> If i have a simple cross in rails what signals should i use ? 16:12:43 <V453000> idk I feel like all town sets give the same amount of population 16:12:55 <frosch123> Saraa: if you do not know, try them all :) 16:13:33 <andythenorth> Saraa: a bridge ;) 16:14:13 <FLHerne> Saraa: If you're not using double track already I suggest you do - it's far easier to signal :P 16:15:55 <FLHerne> If you know which way trains will be going on each piece of track, you can just use mnodirectional path signals for everything ;) 16:18:57 <welshdragon> I've found a bug... 16:19:04 *** TWerkhoven2[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:19:21 <welshdragon> Groups display the wrong number in the overview window 16:19:25 <Saraa> http://i42.tinypic.com/mwe6h0.png 16:19:28 <Saraa> its just this 16:20:51 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-052-229.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 16:21:01 <NGC3982> wagon towarowy! 16:22:16 <Saraa> is there a simple signal which shows when its safe to cross 16:23:40 <FLHerne> Saraa: I think a bidirectional path signal on the red dot near the factory would work 16:24:43 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:24:43 <FLHerne> Perhaps on both green dots too, although I don't think that's necessary 16:25:03 <FLHerne> Andythenorth was right though, a bridge would be easier :P 16:25:33 <Saraa> its says 'no signals' 16:26:05 <Saraa> ok, nvmd :P 16:26:11 <FLHerne> You have the 'convert' tool selescted. Unselect it :P 16:26:13 <frosch123> welshdragon: then figure out which action made it go wrong 16:26:52 <frosch123> a screenshot or savegame is useful for that kind of bug, as those values are not saved 16:28:10 <Saraa> it works :) 16:28:52 <FLHerne> Saraa: good :D 16:33:37 <Saraa> can i assign specific depos for a specific train ? 16:35:12 <FLHerne> If you give a train an order to goto or service at a depot, it won't go to others, if that's what you mean 16:36:37 <welshdragon> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5165 16:36:43 <welshdragon> frosch123: ^ 16:37:00 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c465:4cee:126f:6c20] has joined #openttd 16:37:03 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:37:08 <FLHerne> The difference being that 'service at' will only send the train to the depot when it thinks it needs servicing 16:38:18 <frosch123> welshdragon: so, what did you do? 16:38:31 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:38:43 <frosch123> if you cannot reproduce it with some clear actions, we have to close it as unreproducible 16:40:37 <welshdragon> frosch123: added reproduvtion steps 16:41:55 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-35-89.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:41:58 <frosch123> oh, so it is broken recently 16:42:44 <welshdragon> i suspect so 16:42:53 <welshdragon> it woeks in earlier versions 16:42:56 <frosch123> it's the drag/drop thingie 16:43:07 <frosch123> and the command accepting moving vehicles from ALL_GROUP to some other group 16:45:15 <frosch123> welshdragon: so you are playing nightly, not trunk? 16:45:26 <frosch123> err, nightly, not 1.2 16:45:46 <welshdragon> 1.2 16:45:53 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:48:22 <frosch123> hmm, no, i cannot reproduct it 16:52:51 <NGC3982> V453000: i kind of giggled when T1000 was introduced. 16:58:43 * andythenorth goes adventuring into production level, production rate, production multiplier etc 16:59:25 <andythenorth> frosch123: someone's going to have a valid case for adjusting production_rate[0] and production_rate[1] (from action 0 props) ? 17:00:36 <frosch123> that would be a lot of work for something which you can do with the production callback 17:01:05 <andythenorth> true 17:01:11 <andythenorth> let's ignore it then 17:01:59 <andythenorth> so I want to adjust i->prod_level, how do bytes 0-7 in this new cb adjust it? 17:06:29 <andythenorth> similar to existing production changes? 17:06:48 <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1346/ <- what was wrong with that one? 17:06:53 <frosch123> except the number of bits? 17:08:01 <andythenorth> nothing, I failed to understand it :P 17:08:11 <andythenorth> I've just read ChangeIndustryProduction again 17:08:14 <andythenorth> now I understand it 17:08:15 <andythenorth> :P 17:08:42 <andythenorth> so the desired level just gets stuffed in register 0x100 if I've understood correctly 17:09:17 *** goodger [~ben@94-30-43-248.xdsl.murphx.net] has joined #openttd 17:14:24 *** Saraa [~Thomas@acoh16.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:15:34 <andythenorth> hmm 17:15:40 <andythenorth> I have to patch nml to test this :P 17:19:03 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 17:22:23 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:24:32 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-005-077.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:38 <andythenorth> in nml, is register 0x100 address 1 17:25:41 <andythenorth> ? 17:26:02 <andythenorth> i.e. to push 128 into 0x100 I use "STORE_TEMP(128, 1)" 17:26:02 <andythenorth> ? 17:28:47 <frosch123> unlikely 17:29:59 <frosch123> i would think STORE_TEMP(128, 0x100) 17:30:20 <andythenorth> let's try that 17:40:57 <andythenorth> interesting 17:41:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24157 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed) 17:41:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:41:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 45 changes by telanus 17:41:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 10 changes by Wowanxm 17:41:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 3 changes by chenwt0315 17:41:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 12 changes by VoyagerOne 17:41:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 12 changes by planetmaker 17:43:06 <andythenorth> frosch123: I wanted to be sure this approach was going to work....so I brute force set prod_level to 128 on build 17:43:11 <andythenorth> it makes no difference to production 17:44:12 <andythenorth> I've checked it's not just a newgrf case - it's not being hidden by the production cb 17:48:18 <frosch123> did you call RecomputeProductionMultipliers() ? 17:48:33 <andythenorth> I tried, but it throws errors 17:49:30 <andythenorth> this suggests to me that " i->prod_level = PRODLEVEL_DEFAULT;" on L1654 isn't doing anything useful :P 17:49:34 <frosch123> ah, right, you have to disable smooth economy if that cb is used 17:49:43 <frosch123> also change UsesSmoothEconomy 17:51:30 <andythenorth> L1612 looks interesting 17:52:12 <frosch123> don't look at it 17:52:18 <andythenorth> so that's how default industries are randomised? 17:52:21 <frosch123> smooth economy is not compatible with newgrfs 17:53:35 <andythenorth> it was more for reference ;) 17:54:12 <andythenorth> L1639-1640 17:54:16 * telanus hates translation errors, that one only see for a split second before it pops out of existance :( 17:54:23 <andythenorth> if I'm adjusting production rate on build, I need those to be updated 17:55:03 * andythenorth ponders moving the cb up 17:55:14 <andythenorth> and also having it recalculate production_rate directly :P 17:58:49 <andythenorth> ha 17:59:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: this is obviously stupid, but proves at least my nml patch works :P 17:59:23 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1347/ 18:05:08 <NGC3982> what happend to the trains in amsterdam? 18:05:17 <NGC3982> bad TCMS and a reversing engine? 18:05:32 <andythenorth> hmm 18:05:47 * andythenorth can't find where prod_level is actually used to produce output 18:09:36 <andythenorth> frosch123: afaict returning prod_level is pointless 18:09:55 <andythenorth> I can't see how it works even for the existing cbs...which it must, obviously ;P 18:11:29 <andythenorth> nvm 18:11:34 <andythenorth> I found the obvious 18:13:33 <andythenorth> hmm 18:13:39 <andythenorth> ottd compiles much faster than FIRS 18:15:27 <Eddi|zuHause> reimplement gcc in python :) 18:15:41 <Alberth> dependency checking and partial compiling works :) 18:15:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and multithreading 18:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and efficient expression evaluation 18:16:30 <Alberth> we need nml2 :p 18:17:57 * andythenorth needs to know how to stick something in register 0x100 with nml :P 18:18:12 <andythenorth> appears not to work: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1348/ 18:27:05 <andythenorth> yay 18:27:20 <andythenorth> ok, so apart from handling edge cases / errors...this appears to work :o 18:27:25 <andythenorth> frosch123: ^ ;) 18:29:25 <andythenorth> tempting to allow each prod. rate to be set directly, so they can be varied more easily, e.g. for farms 18:29:38 <andythenorth> where there are 2 outputs 18:30:12 *** Devedse [~Devedse@kbl-gs20069.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 18:33:18 <frosch123> they are strictly tied via prod_level 18:34:02 <andythenorth> if I reset them before calling RecomputeProductionMultipliers()... 18:34:16 <andythenorth> oh no 18:34:19 <andythenorth> they're indspec :P 18:34:20 <andythenorth> k 18:34:25 <andythenorth> nvm 18:34:39 *** th_gergo [~thiering@2E6B2A8B.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:34:45 <andythenorth> so I have no idea what to do with ErrorUnknownCallbackResult() 18:34:52 <andythenorth> or what edge cases I should be handling 18:35:14 <frosch123> you should check the return value of the cb for validness 18:35:35 <frosch123> to prevent grfauthors from returning a mess, which then returns in broken grfs if we enhance ottd 18:36:29 <andythenorth> so currently there a no specific return values, and something valid has to be in register 0x100 18:36:39 <andythenorth> and other registers aren't checked 18:36:44 <andythenorth> so must return 0? 18:41:03 <frosch123> why do you use register 100 anyway? 18:42:13 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08fdf1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:43:19 <andythenorth> hmm 18:43:38 <andythenorth> I thought that was your advice ;) 18:43:41 <andythenorth> maybe I misread earlier 18:43:44 <andythenorth> I got up at 5am ;) 18:44:07 <andythenorth> does pushing values onto registers make this more flexible in future? 18:45:16 <frosch123> registers usually only get optional results 18:45:34 <frosch123> like stuff for a news item :) 18:45:52 <michi_cc> No, his advice was to put the production into the result and an optional message string into the register. 18:46:36 <andythenorth> oops :) 18:47:22 <andythenorth> I just pasted this in ;) i->prod_level = Clamp(GB(GetRegister(0x100), 16, 8), PRODLEVEL_MINIMUM, PRODLEVEL_MAXIMUM); 18:48:44 <andythenorth> so I should change that to use result? 18:48:47 <frosch123> that line is from the prod change cb 18:49:10 <frosch123> i meant to copy the clamping of the result 18:49:20 <frosch123> but checking the range of the result for the Error thingie is even better 18:49:31 <andythenorth> ach, ok :) 18:49:43 * andythenorth thought he was done :P 18:53:03 *** ToxicFrog` [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 18:53:40 *** ToxicFrog` is now known as ToxicFrog 18:54:28 <ToxicFrog> So, someone linked me to Chill's patchpack earlier, which incorporates a huge list of patches ranging from the very simple (option to color-code town names based on how much they like you) to the very complex (cargodist). 18:55:13 <ToxicFrog> I was looking through the incoporated patches a while ago and most of them date from 2008-2009, with comments like "this is probably too late for 0.7, but hopefully it can be tested and merged in time for 0.8" 18:55:29 <ToxicFrog> Is it seriously the case that none of these have been merged into openttd? 18:55:55 <andythenorth> hmm 18:55:57 <andythenorth> so this works 18:55:58 <andythenorth> i->prod_level = Clamp(res, PRODLEVEL_MINIMUM, PRODLEVEL_MAXIMUM); 18:56:19 <andythenorth> so I should try and handle that with the Error thingie? 18:56:28 <andythenorth> does anyone know how the Error thingie works? :P 18:57:46 <Alberth> ToxicFrog: yes, that's why they are in the patchpack 18:58:03 <andythenorth> this might work 18:58:03 <andythenorth> if (res < PRODLEVEL_MINIMUM || res > PRODLEVEL_MAXIMUM) ErrorUnknownCallbackResult(indspec->grf_prop.grffile->grfid, CBID_INDUSTRY_PROD_CHANGE_BUILD, res); 18:58:28 <frosch123> andythenorth: you likely need both lines 18:58:38 <frosch123> the error and the clamping to somehow continue anyways 18:58:40 <Alberth> ToxicFrog: oh, we had a lot of simple patches added very recently in trunk, so maybe my claim is not entirely true 18:58:49 <andythenorth> frosch123: I concluded the same :) 18:58:59 <ToxicFrog> Alberth: is there any particular reason why? Some of these patches are really simple, and some of the complicated ones have been around for a while and tested very extensively 18:59:00 <andythenorth> C++ is easy when you have 3-5 people to help you ;P 18:59:51 <frosch123> ToxicFrog: maybe the extensive testing resulted in a decision to not include them 19:00:08 <Alberth> ToxicFrog: for the simple ones, I am not sure; for the complicated ones, yes, but each patch has its own reason why 19:00:18 <andythenorth> yay http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2874/cb_15f_fail.png 19:00:29 <frosch123> the interesting part of testing is the result of it :p 19:00:37 <Alberth> :) 19:01:12 <ToxicFrog> Is there a "patch inclusion status" thing somewhere? It would be nice if I could distinguish between "patches I need to merge in myself" and "patches that will probably show up in trunk if I'm patient". 19:01:45 <Alberth> other than the distinction between "is in trunk" and "is not in trunk", no 19:01:53 <frosch123> waiting on others is never a good strategy 19:03:03 <ToxicFrog> frosch123: on the other hand, managing my own private branch is a pain in the ass 19:03:31 <frosch123> then decide for the patches which are important for yourself 19:03:33 * andythenorth is about to test the viability of getting a patch into trunk :P 19:03:41 <frosch123> don't try to include every single marginal feature 19:03:58 <frosch123> which might only be handy every 20th game 19:04:16 <NGC3982> http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/3929180_460s.jpg 19:06:09 <ToxicFrog> frosch123: the thing is, AFAICT, my choices are basically "maintain my own patchset" (which is annoying even with a small number of patches), "play vanilla, waiting for features that I have no idea if they're even being considered because there's apparently no feedback on any of this", or "use someone else's build, which is probably very out of date" 19:06:19 <ToxicFrog> And I don't like any of those options, so I was wondering if there was a better one. 19:07:18 <Alberth> work on putting them in trunk? 19:08:02 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:08:29 <frosch123> Alberth: that does not help for features which are considered more bloat than useful 19:08:39 <frosch123> e.g. the town rating display in the town name 19:09:19 <frosch123> (because there were like 3 patches which wanted to display something in the label, turning the map into a spreadsheet) 19:09:38 <andythenorth> frosch123 / whoever might be interested :) :P http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=59570&p=1009857#p1009857 19:09:43 <Alberth> good point 19:09:44 <frosch123> also i doubt any amount of work on a patch would succeed in getting any copy&paste or statistics patch into trunk :) 19:10:20 <frosch123> there are just numerous patches which have no chance because none of the devs like the feature, resp. are even strongly opposed to it 19:10:26 <Alberth> and cargod*st is terribly complicated to get right 19:10:42 * andythenorth waves a patch. Maybe devs will like it? :D 19:10:48 * andythenorth tests a few more cases on it ;P 19:11:03 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable085.125-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 19:11:05 <drac_boy> hi 19:11:08 <Alberth> ih 19:11:13 <frosch123> well, the patches where the authors themself do not consider them ready for trunk are even another case :) 19:11:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: doesn't that still assert with smooth economy? 19:11:47 <ToxicFrog> Alberth: the thing is, presumably the patch developers have already worked on putting them in trunk. Were they rejected? Rejected pending modifications? Still undergoing testing? Planned for inclusion in 1.3? There's no way to tell! 19:11:55 <andythenorth> frosch123: not sure 19:11:57 <andythenorth> I'll test 19:12:03 <andythenorth> I'm testing min values right now 19:12:06 <frosch123> also fix your whitespace :) 19:12:09 <andythenorth> I've tested max values 19:12:16 <andythenorth> stupid XCode :P 19:12:45 <ToxicFrog> I would rather not spend a weekend working on merging something into trunk only to get back "you're the sixth person to submit this this month, it's not being included because it conflicts with <planned feature X>" or something. 19:13:03 <andythenorth> 'planned feature' :o 19:13:11 <andythenorth> that's one of the less likely objections :P 19:13:15 <Alberth> ToxicFrog: so ask first 19:13:35 <Alberth> didn't know we even had planned features :p 19:13:42 <andythenorth> frosch123: I have smooth economy enabled 19:13:43 <andythenorth> seems to work 19:14:49 <frosch123> well, maybe because you patched a industry which uses the other prodchange cbs already, and thus already disables smooth economy 19:15:02 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: my 2¢: the bit in industry_cmd.cpp should have a comment explaining that it's calling the CB on creation to set initial production 19:15:14 <frosch123> check IndSpec::UsesSmoothEconomy 19:15:35 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: you mean 'documentation' :P 19:15:45 <frosch123> andythenorth: you also call the cb too early 19:15:47 <Rhamphoryncus> eh? 19:15:50 <frosch123> most of the variables are not set up yet 19:16:06 <frosch123> /* Call callbacks after the regular fields got initialised. */ <- put it at least after that line 19:17:31 <andythenorth> if I don't call it early, the industry window reports incorrectly 19:17:31 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 19:17:40 <andythenorth> and the industry list wrt production amounts 19:17:59 <frosch123> well, check the depenencies of the variables 19:18:03 <andythenorth> I need to set last_month_production 19:18:09 <andythenorth> maybe I could recompute last_month_production? 19:18:15 <frosch123> you will likely have to put the last_month thingie after it 19:18:15 <andythenorth> sound sane? 19:22:53 <ToxicFrog> Alberth: ask where, in here? 19:23:04 * Alberth nods 19:24:33 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 19:25:10 <andythenorth> meh 19:25:15 * andythenorth looks for whitespace issues 19:25:21 <andythenorth> my editor doesn't reveal them 19:26:06 <Rhamphoryncus> The two blank lines in industry_cmd.cpp have trailing whitespace 19:26:14 <andythenorth> meanwhile 19:26:15 <andythenorth> yay 19:26:17 <andythenorth> assert :P 19:26:46 <Rhamphoryncus> the other blank in newgrf_callbacks.h does too 19:26:53 <Rhamphoryncus> My editor will do the same thing. Drives me nuts. 19:27:48 <andythenorth> ok 19:27:51 <andythenorth> seen them now thanks 19:29:11 <Rhamphoryncus> The trick to finding them is to play with drag-select. Indentation will go 4 at a time if tabbed, 1 if spaced. Trailing will only highlight the last line without wrapping to the next 19:29:41 <andythenorth> hmm 19:29:50 <andythenorth> "* This function is only valid when not using smooth economy." 19:29:55 <andythenorth> for RecomputeProductionMultipliers() 19:30:09 <andythenorth> which means I can't use that function? 19:30:13 <andythenorth> I have to write my own? 19:30:50 <ToxicFrog> Hmm. Well, the patches I'm most interested in are more height levels; cargodist; buy land; select trains in tunnels; and automatic timetable tuning. 19:31:46 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: doesn't sound right to me.. 19:32:25 <ToxicFrog> Although buy land looks like it was broken by a change in 1.0 and then never updated by the author, so no mystery there. 19:32:54 <frosch123> i doubt more-height-levels or cargodist will make it in any near future 19:33:33 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: assert(!indspec->UsesSmoothEconomy()); 19:33:40 <andythenorth> seems to rule out relying on that function :P 19:34:29 <frosch123> drag&drop buy-land might have a chance if it is done like the clear-land/terraform limit (see fs#5156) 19:34:37 <Rhamphoryncus> frosch123: more height levels might, if the only issue is code quality 19:34:40 <ToxicFrog> frosch123: given that both have already been around for three years I'm going read that as "ever"; what's the reason? 19:35:10 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: yeah, but I think that's an invariant of using a production callback 19:35:27 <Rhamphoryncus> Trying to find the specific code now 19:35:48 <andythenorth> this existing comment makes no sense to me - wrt the actual code: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1351/ 19:36:01 <andythenorth> the code is nothing to do with cbs in use 19:36:21 <frosch123> ToxicFrog: more-heightlevels is more complicated than the patchers up to now were able to handle. various preparations went into 1.2 with newgrf v8 19:36:26 <frosch123> but since then noone worked on that patch 19:36:52 <andythenorth> k, so I need to add to UsesSmoothEconomy 19:36:59 <andythenorth> as frosch123 said about 7 hours ago :P 19:37:10 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: IndustrySpec::UsesSmoothEconomy() returns false is you have a production callback set 19:37:17 <frosch123> i am not much involved with cargod*st. but afiak performance was a major issue 19:37:26 <Rhamphoryncus> So that particular industry always uses non-smooth economy 19:38:37 <Rhamphoryncus> Since you're adding a new flag it should either only activate if one of the existing ones does or should itself make it non-smooth 19:39:06 <andythenorth> fixing 19:39:25 <andythenorth> assert gone 19:39:54 <Rhamphoryncus> :) 19:41:35 *** szotsaki [~szotsaki@54009F94.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 19:42:52 *** Netwerk [546a0fe5@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:43:33 <andythenorth> fortunately TextWrangler is smarter than XCode :P 19:43:37 <andythenorth> and strips whitespace 19:43:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19ABA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:44:13 <Rhamphoryncus> s/\s+//g 19:45:10 *** martinottd [188423a5@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:45:26 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:45:49 *** Netwerk [546a0fe5@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 19:46:03 <andythenorth> patch updated http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=59570&p=1009857#p1009857 19:46:09 <frosch123> Rhamphoryncus: i don't think andy wants to remove so much spaces :) 19:46:38 <Rhamphoryncus> You're right. This is C. s/\s+/ /g 19:46:42 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:47:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: i think you also need to add it to the debug gui 19:47:37 <andythenorth> andythenorth wants to immediately make the next FIRS release incompatible with the most recent ottd stable :P 19:47:37 <frosch123> it = the new callback and mask bit 19:47:40 <andythenorth> k 19:47:44 <drac_boy> heh 19:47:48 <andythenorth> I'll have to find the debug GUI :P 19:48:05 <andythenorth> sensibly named it seems 19:48:31 <frosch123> maybe it's a trap 19:48:44 <frosch123> and we named something entirely different that way 19:48:53 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: your next trick can be boosting the 3/2 limit to 8/8 or 16/16 }:> 19:49:09 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: nah, it would break the design of the game 19:49:14 <andythenorth> limitations are useful 19:49:15 <Rhamphoryncus> wha? 19:49:26 <andythenorth> we should re-insert some limitations :P 19:49:35 <Rhamphoryncus> Having had a cluster of 14 farms.. wha?! 19:49:51 <andythenorth> ? 19:49:55 <Rhamphoryncus> in FIRS 19:50:06 <Rhamphoryncus> 14 farms all near each other 19:50:07 <andythenorth> sometimes you get epic clusters 19:50:23 <andythenorth> if 2 or 3 types each locate a cluster near the same spot... 19:50:28 <Rhamphoryncus> They're amusing for pickup. For farmsup they *SUCK* 19:50:34 <andythenorth> well yes 19:50:55 <andythenorth> especially because of shenanigans with having to build 3 separate roadstations at each farm 19:51:02 <Rhamphoryncus> They're part of why I've the lame farmsup feeders before 19:51:05 <andythenorth> due to queuing problems :P 19:51:09 <Rhamphoryncus> 3? 19:51:42 <andythenorth> one pickup for each cargo is required 19:51:52 <andythenorth> and one for drop off, as the others will be usually contended 19:52:15 <andythenorth> and with trams, drive-through stops are required. inefficient on space :P 19:52:29 <Rhamphoryncus> Ahh, I did trains 19:52:35 <andythenorth> and enough room for significant queuing is also required, so in a dense cluster, it's hard :P 19:52:45 <andythenorth> at least pickup can overlap farms :P 19:53:01 <andythenorth> it's a bit better with YACD, the overlap is handled for dropoff as well 19:53:12 <frosch123> andythenorth: you can queue a lot of vehicles in a depot :p 19:53:24 <andythenorth> only if they know to go there, RVs don't afaict 19:53:34 <andythenorth> they'll come out and gridlock 19:53:40 <andythenorth> RV gridlock is easily achieved :) 19:53:59 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has joined #openttd 19:53:59 <andythenorth> hmm 19:54:05 <andythenorth> how does this debug gui work? 19:54:16 <andythenorth> I thought cbs would be in newgrf_debug.h 19:54:22 <Rhamphoryncus> My trick was to have a single tile of the train station at each farm (the center of the station), then have a single platform tile interleaved with a common transfer station platform 19:54:34 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has left #openttd [] 19:54:36 <Rhamphoryncus> So one train would go in a tight loop alternating pickup farmsup/dropoff farmsup 19:54:51 <Rhamphoryncus> Also, you can give an RV an order for a specific depot 19:55:13 <andythenorth> might be I only need to provide a string for cb 15F, then maybe it works? :o 19:55:52 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:59:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24158 /trunk/src/subsidy.cpp: -Fix (r23408): Town producing no cargo at all could spawn passenger subsidies. 19:59:32 <andythenorth> hmm 19:59:36 * andythenorth is puzzled by debug gui 19:59:54 <frosch123> take a look at the other industry cbs 20:00:03 <frosch123> i would expect you only have to add one line into some table 20:00:23 <frosch123> in table/debug_data_something_something.h 20:00:48 <andythenorth> ho 20:00:52 <andythenorth> yes 20:01:08 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:02:21 <andythenorth> done 20:03:22 <andythenorth> updated http://www.tt-forums.net/posting.php?mode=edit&f=68&t=59570&p=1009857 20:04:55 <Rhamphoryncus> mode=edit? 20:05:03 <Rhamphoryncus> It wants a password from me :) 20:05:35 <andythenorth> ? 20:05:37 <andythenorth> :o 20:05:45 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=59570&p=1009857 20:08:47 <Alberth> andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1352/ some quick comments 20:09:58 <frosch123> he, albert seems to be the only one checking comments :) 20:10:27 <Alberth> I first read comments, then read the code to confirm :) 20:11:09 <Alberth> a few lines comments is faster to read then all code of a function ;) 20:11:39 <Eddi|zuHause> he's the master of comments :) 20:11:50 <frosch123> i think i am not used to commented code :) 20:12:39 <frosch123> i am rather used to reading code, since comments are either wrong or do not state the important things 20:13:13 <frosch123> (of course not in ottd :) ) 20:14:41 * andythenorth always assumes comments are approximate :P 20:17:29 *** szotsaki [~szotsaki@54009F94.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has left #openttd [] 20:21:32 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:25:32 <andythenorth> Alberth: one of the comments on comments conflicts with neighbouring comments :P 20:25:43 <andythenorth> they are not capitalised nor have full stops 20:25:56 <andythenorth> sure that one isn't a foolish consistency? 20:27:10 <andythenorth> newgrf_callbacks.h has a variety of comment styles ;) 20:27:23 <frosch123> yeah, coding is art :p 20:27:28 <Alberth> I change the comments when I change the line for some reason, but ymmv. 20:27:48 <Alberth> not changing it is also fine if you feel it is better 20:28:14 <Alberth> then one day, they may all get aligned :p 20:28:27 <andythenorth> foolish consistency ;) 20:28:29 <andythenorth> but I changed it 20:29:58 <andythenorth> comments fixed 20:30:09 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1009857#p1009857 20:30:29 <andythenorth> ship it? :) 20:31:53 <Alberth> newgrf_callbacks.h has surprisingly few spelling errors :p 20:34:34 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:36:05 <Alberth> good night all 20:36:19 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:43:46 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-89-176-205-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:49:09 <Terkhen> good night 20:53:34 *** martinottd [188423a5@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:58:41 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-22-125.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:59:32 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-126-186.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:03:56 <andythenorth> bye 21:04:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:06:38 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:19 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 21:21:01 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-219-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:21:24 <NGC3982> hm 21:22:30 <NGC3982> im still trying to find an industry grf that allows me to stimulate growth a bit further 21:25:52 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:29:40 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:32:46 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 21:51:34 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:56:52 *** krinn [~krinn@114.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 21:56:58 <krinn> hi all 21:57:18 <krinn> Zuu answer sent 22:03:57 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-28-60.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:08:20 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:08:52 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-22-125.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:09:31 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-94-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:10:11 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:13:59 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-28-60.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:19:00 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[~progman@p57A19ABA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:23 <krinn> night all 23:05:29 *** krinn [~krinn@114.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 23:06:06 *** TWerkhoven2[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:06:21 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:06:24 *** th_gergo [~thiering@2E6B2A8B.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 23:07:11 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:10:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C61B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C61B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 23:15:23 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 23:18:26 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:56 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 23:26:42 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:28:13 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:33:48 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-89-176-205-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:49 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-89-176-205-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:34:23 *** Firartix [~artixds@161.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:26 *** th_gergo [~thiering@2E6B2A8B.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:42:48 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-102-165.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:54:01 <Nat_aS> why is there no open source sim-city clone? 23:54:17 <Nat_aS> (before somebody sugests lin city, that game has almost nothing to do with sim city) 23:54:22 <Nat_aS> i mean sim city 2000 clone 23:55:19 *** goodger 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