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Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67695.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:55:42 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-184-57-41-122.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 04:56:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 05:07:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 05:11:35 <andythenorth> morning 05:25:18 <Nat_aS> night 05:30:46 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:31:11 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 05:37:47 <andythenorth> hmm 05:37:54 <andythenorth> so auto-refit can't partial refit :P 05:41:25 <Nat_aS> can you partial refit manualy? 05:41:34 <Nat_aS> I wish you could mix cargos more 05:41:59 <Nat_aS> esp with single car vehicles. 05:42:07 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 05:42:18 <Nat_aS> I know it's in the system because of airplanes (Unless they have a cheat like an invisible trailing car) 05:46:58 <andythenorth> airplanes have a shadow 05:47:48 <Nat_aS> and the shadow is a second car carring mail? 05:47:51 <Nat_aS> srsly? 05:48:26 <andythenorth> read the code ;) 05:52:57 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.233] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:40 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.233] has joined #openttd 06:02:42 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:16:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 06:18:27 *** Nat_aS is now known as Nat_AFK 06:32:47 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:35:05 *** xiong [~xiong@c-67-164-36-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:43:05 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:43:09 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 06:45:48 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 06:54:53 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.151.112] has joined #openttd 06:56:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:56:16 <Alberth> moin andy 06:56:31 <andythenorth> lo 06:56:37 <andythenorth> what delights does today hold? 06:57:26 <Alberth> new strings 06:58:28 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@81.152.251.165] has joined #openttd 07:04:19 <Rubidium> literally hundreds of decistrings ;) 07:11:51 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:13:08 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has joined #openttd 07:13:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24225 /branches/1.2/ (7 files in 2 dirs): 07:13:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [1.2] -Backport from trunk: 07:13:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Conflicting strategies for resizing the main toolbar and statusbar after resizing the main window [FS#5136] (r24089) 07:13:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Significantly reduce the area that is redrawn for text effects [FS#5103] (r24068) 07:13:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not redraw up to 25% of the map when making a new vehicle visible for the first time (r24067) 07:13:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not redraw the text effect when nothing changed (r24066) 07:15:54 <Alberth> any relation to the string theory is not decided yet 07:16:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24226 /branches/1.2/ (5 files in 4 dirs): 07:16:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [1.2] -Backport from trunk: 07:16:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Squirrel] Crash when trying to create an array with negative size [FS#5160] (r24153) 07:16:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Do not return the last 'cached' speed of vehicles when they are stopped/crashed [FS#5157] (r24152) 07:16:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Script] Typo in script documentation (r24151) 07:16:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Glass-sprite of bubble-generator was not drawn anymore for completely constructed tiles [FS#5143] (r24107) 07:17:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24227 /branches/1.2/ (5 files in 3 dirs): 07:17:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [1.2] -Backport from trunk: 07:17:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Squirrel] Crash when trying to create an array with negative size [FS#5160] (r24153) 07:17:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Do not return the last 'cached' speed of vehicles when they are stopped/crashed [FS#5157] (r24152) 07:17:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Script] Typo in script documentation (r24151) 07:17:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Glass-sprite of bubble-generator was not drawn anymore for completely constructed tiles [FS#5143] (r24107) 07:20:10 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:23:43 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has joined #openttd 07:24:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24228 /branches/1.2/ (19 files in 6 dirs): 07:24:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [1.2] -Backport from trunk: 07:24:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Town radii were not updated immediatelly after construction/destruction of houses, resulting in desyncs [FS#5169] (r24183) 07:24:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: The population of a town was computed incorrectly for overridden houses when loading a game (r24182, r24181, r24179) 07:24:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: The object name from property A was not displayed in the object GUI [FS#5110] (r24178) 07:27:52 *** mal2_ [~mal2@port-92-206-40-196.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 07:29:41 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:30:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24229 /branches/1.2/ (4 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed) 07:30:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [1.2] -Backport from trunk: 07:30:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: If you consider a settings to potentially cause desyncs via NewGRFs and thus disallow changing it in network games, you should probably also sync it to clients (r24193, r24191) 07:30:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Use default value when reading an invalid setting value [FS#5153] (r24192, r24146) 07:30:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Windows] When going to fullscreen and back, restore to the resolution you were, not to the fullscreen resolution (r24189) 07:30:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Windows] When changing the basics of a window (fullscreen, 8bpp/32bpp), 07:30:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: and a window already exists, it was forced out of maximize mode, and its 07:33:46 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 07:36:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24230 /branches/1.2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 07:36:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [1.2] -Backport from trunk: 07:36:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Make the engine name not overdraw the engine count in the autoreplace GUI (r24203) 07:36:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Make the size of the details in the autoreplace GUI match more the size of the details in the purchase list (r24202) 07:36:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Mark group list dirty when setting/clearing autoreplace for an engine type [FS#5170] (r24201) 07:36:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Invalidate build vehicle windows every month, in case they need resorting due to changed reliabilities [FS#5149] (r24200) 07:38:09 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has joined #openttd 07:39:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24231 /branches/1.2/ (. src/economy.cpp src/vehicle.cpp src/window.cpp): 07:39:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [1.2] -Backport from trunk: 07:39:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Immediately do the cargo payment on vehicle crashes instead of when they are cleared [FS#5152] (r24219) 07:39:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: The confirmation window to abort world generation was hidden during world generation, so actually you could not abort it [FS#5159] (r24214) 07:39:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: If a company is taken over or bankrupts, transfer exclusive transport rights to the new owner respectively cancel them (r24204) 07:40:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24232 /branches/1.2/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 07:40:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [1.2] -Backport from trunk: 07:40:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Dereferencing uninitialised pointer causing a crash [FS#5159] (r24224) 07:40:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Lag counters were not properly reset when switching states making it possible to get disconnected for lagging when you were not lagging [FS#5166] (r24221) 07:40:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Adopt ICU version detection to also deal with the new versioning scheme since ICU 49 (r24220) 07:43:16 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:44:34 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has joined #openttd 07:44:35 <andythenorth> backport spree :P 07:46:10 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:49:31 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:50:07 * andythenorth ponders 07:51:12 <andythenorth> iirc, HEQS can cause openttd to crash 07:51:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AFE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:51:54 * andythenorth should fix that 07:53:05 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-124-99.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 07:54:16 <Alberth> bandit also needs fixing according to the devzone 07:54:45 <andythenorth> yarp 07:55:03 <andythenorth> also my game needs trucks :P 07:55:49 <andythenorth> yes andythenorth has actually been playing a game 07:56:08 <andythenorth> and has some....observations 07:56:22 <Alberth> it's called 'testing' :p 07:56:45 <andythenorth> (1) FISH is stupid, it has diesel ships available in 1870, someone should tell the author 07:57:18 <Alberth> do you have oil wells at that time? 07:57:27 <andythenorth> yes 07:57:30 <andythenorth> and petrol 07:57:38 <andythenorth> well, maybe around 1900 for those things :P 07:58:09 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 07:58:18 <andythenorth> (2) 'auto-refit to specified cargo' won't partial refit 07:58:38 <andythenorth> this is sad, and confusing because it uses the same gui :P 07:58:58 <Alberth> oh, I have not tested auto-refit yet at all 07:59:16 <andythenorth> it's potentially awesome 07:59:38 <andythenorth> (3) playing with 'freight weight multiplier = 6' is too hard, at least with UKRS 2 :P 07:59:46 <andythenorth> (4) station newgrfs are broken by railtypes 08:00:13 <andythenorth> (5) I dislike the dock in CHIPS and need ideas for improving it 08:01:39 <andythenorth> (6) roadtypes are needed 08:02:03 <Alberth> with default trains, I use freight multiplier 5 to 10 :) 08:02:11 <andythenorth> :o 08:02:14 <andythenorth> suicide :P 08:02:22 <andythenorth> with US train sets I use 6 or so 08:02:25 <Alberth> not too many hills :p 08:02:43 <andythenorth> I play mountainous :P 08:03:20 <Alberth> sounds like fun :) 08:04:29 <andythenorth> (7) I made canals much cheaper if FISH is used, this is good, canals are insanely stupidly expensive otherwise 08:15:44 *** spongie [~peter@h-11-201.a254.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 08:16:46 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has joined #openttd 08:16:46 <spongie> Hi guys. I'm looking at the industrial station renewal tiles and theres a cool tile for having 3 tracks in 2 tiles (classification yard), but I can only make a switch for the two bottom tracks. The tile in the menu shows middle splitting to top, but in game when placed it switches from bottom to middle. Anyway to make it switchable to all three tracks? 08:19:47 <andythenorth> spongie: no 08:19:51 <andythenorth> I just tried 08:20:09 <spongie> it doesnt matter because the pbs wont pick it up as a free rail anyway 08:20:14 <spongie> not sure exactly what the use is 08:20:29 <andythenorth> eye candy 08:21:45 <spongie> hm. 08:22:35 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:23:04 <spongie> i wonder if its done using nml 08:24:14 <andythenorth> no 08:24:14 <andythenorth> nfo 08:24:24 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/isr 08:26:55 <spongie> do you think it would possible to make a tunnel and/or bridge that has implicit block signals throughout so multiple trains can use it at the same time? 08:27:48 <Rubidium> in current official versions: no, theoretically: yes 08:28:32 * Alberth likes bi-directional bridges 08:28:50 <__ln__> theoretically, but you would have to rewrite half of the game? 08:29:12 <Rubidium> Dutch experiments with bi-directional rail tracks earlier this year have not proven to be a complete success ;) 08:31:26 <andythenorth> (8) CHIPS ain't that great, which is a shame, because I thought it was nearly done :| 08:31:34 <andythenorth> (9) rivers are still no use in my game 08:32:04 <andythenorth> rivers do at least look interesting 08:34:29 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has joined #openttd 08:35:38 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has joined #openttd 08:37:32 <spongie> hm. the normal pbs behavior is thrown off when using trainshed station 08:38:40 <andythenorth> ? 08:38:56 <andythenorth> pbs should not pay any attention to station graphics 08:39:47 *** Someus [~bumtac@212.93.105.3] has joined #openttd 08:40:25 <Someus> HI 08:40:30 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:41:30 *** Someus [~bumtac@212.93.105.3] has quit [] 08:42:13 <andythenorth> short visit 08:42:31 <Alberth> apparently, he said all he wanted to say :) 08:43:39 <andythenorth> hmm 08:43:45 <andythenorth> simple industries are definitely more relaxing 08:44:00 <andythenorth> fishing grounds never change production, and have a short industry chain 08:45:15 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has joined #openttd 08:45:25 <andythenorth> also this game lacks farm clusters 08:45:29 <andythenorth> maybe they fail on small maps :P 08:47:00 <spongie> im guessing there is no way to use the road crossing in ISR for actual road vehicles? 08:47:23 <andythenorth> nope 08:47:32 <andythenorth> try Quant65s new objects thing for that 08:47:41 <spongie> nah im good. 08:47:45 <andythenorth> it cheats by drawing 'station' objects over roads 08:48:12 <spongie> is there something that isn't a super hack that would add something more than just eye candy? 08:48:19 <spongie> i'm just experimenting with the grf's 08:48:35 <spongie> something cool to recommend perhaps? 08:49:33 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest383 08:49:39 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@81.152.251.165] has joined #openttd 08:50:29 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 08:51:11 *** Guest383 [~chatzilla@81.152.251.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:51:35 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:55:42 <Alberth> depends on what you want, there are NewGRFs for everything 08:56:03 * Alberth likes FIRS, an industry NewGRF 08:56:05 <andythenorth> stations are 100% eye candy though 08:57:07 <Alberth> except for the platform tiles :p 08:57:10 * andythenorth searches for the map size check here http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1395/ 08:57:26 * andythenorth can't see it 09:01:26 <andythenorth> ah fuck it 09:01:44 * andythenorth can't face spending yet another weekend restoring FIRS code that was already written and tested once 09:01:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 09:02:55 <spongie> I'd like some grf that enables me to control what trains can use a track. 09:04:03 <spongie> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=42675 <- this would be cool too 09:07:49 <spongie> guess i'm mostly looking at patches now tho 09:08:27 <Alberth> patchpack by chillcore may be interesting in that case 09:10:29 <spongie> ohmgosh! http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=25037 09:10:34 <spongie> wonderful if it gets into trunk 09:11:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.179.150] has joined #openttd 09:11:11 <Alberth> needs complete rewrite at least 09:12:23 <spongie> chill's patches look pretty cool 09:12:25 <spongie> is it stable? 09:13:28 <planetmaker> it's surely the best patch pack OpenTTD saw for years. But I recon it's not as stable as OpenTTD trunk 09:14:20 <spongie> i hope some of that stuff reaches trunk 09:14:24 <spongie> programmable signals, yum 09:14:31 <spongie> copy paste 09:14:45 <spongie> automated separation in timetables 09:15:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.160.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:15:41 <spongie> hm. having problems cloning the repos 09:16:12 <spongie> wrong url on the main page 09:16:56 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:28:31 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d5c33.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:29:30 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:29:37 <spongie> hm. im not sure how to apply the progsigs patch 09:29:40 <spongie> a/* and b/* ? 09:31:11 <Alberth> git-style patch :) 09:32:11 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@81.152.251.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:32:16 <spongie> I use git a lot, I don't make patches like that. :) 09:32:30 <Alberth> you need either git or mercurial to apply 09:32:39 <Alberth> or standard 'patch' :) 09:32:48 <planetmaker> the new svn patch from svn 1.7 afaik understands it, too 09:32:48 <spongie> got gnu patch 09:35:52 <spongie> doh. his git repos cant be built with gcc 4.7 09:38:01 <spongie> no signals for me 09:38:28 <planetmaker> why not? 09:38:37 <planetmaker> what does git have to do with the build tool used? 09:38:37 <spongie> something about codeblocks 09:38:53 <spongie> nothing 09:40:58 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 09:41:06 <spongie> when building from svn: checking revision... no detection 09:41:09 <Terkhen> good morning 09:41:21 <spongie> and then a warning about not having a proper version 09:41:37 <spongie> same for both 1.2 branch and trunk 09:43:04 <Alberth> sounds like you are missing something that the script uses 09:43:23 <spongie> clean checkout 09:43:34 <spongie> oh you meant as in some utility 09:44:00 <Alberth> yep 09:44:22 <Alberth> ./findversion.sh does detection 09:45:14 <frosch123> our script fails with svn 1.7 checkouts iirc, if you do not check out trunk, but some higher level of the repository 09:45:28 <spongie> yeah, i just got it all 09:45:33 <spongie> branches, tags and trunk 09:45:44 <Alberth> ie 09:45:46 <frosch123> yup, then our script fails with 1.7 09:46:13 <frosch123> it expects a ".svn" directory 09:46:27 <frosch123> which svn 1.7 does no longer have everywhere 09:46:46 <frosch123> also the format of "svn info" changed, so i think that fails as well 09:47:07 <frosch123> but so far, noone who uses already svn 1.7 bothered fixing it :( 09:47:42 <frosch123> and i cannot be bothered installing svn 1.7 if it is not in debian stable :p 09:53:40 <Alberth> even fedora doesn't have it 09:56:21 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:33 <TinoDidriksen> Debian stable? So, you're on svn 1.3? 09:57:09 <frosch123> stable means squeeze for me, and i have 1.6.12 10:00:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24233 /trunk/src/ (settings_gui.cpp settings_internal.h): -Codechange: Rename 'val_str' to 'str_val' to better match with 'strval' in the ini files. 10:01:28 <frosch123> note to translators: if you have other plans for the day, you should run now! 10:02:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24234 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Add: Add help-string infrastructure to the ini files 10:03:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24235 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Add: Add help-strings for the settings in the advanced settings window. 10:05:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24236 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Add: Add code to retrieve help strings from the setting tree and compute max height. 10:06:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24237 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: Descriptions explaining the meaning of advanced settings. 10:08:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24238 /trunk/src/lang/ (61 files in 2 dirs): -Add: String to display highlight selected setting in all languages. 10:10:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24239 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Add: Highlight setting that has its help text displayed. 10:36:26 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-97-214.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:41:21 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:46:28 *** spongie [~peter@h-11-201.a254.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:51:33 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-106-252.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:52:09 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-003-183.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:53:59 *** mal2_ [~mal2@port-92-206-40-196.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:54:40 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@81.152.251.165] has joined #openttd 10:56:30 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-97-214.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:59:56 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 11:01:32 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:13 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 11:03:24 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.72.108] has joined #openttd 11:08:05 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-106-252.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:17:34 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-107-202.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 11:18:20 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@81.152.251.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:00 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.72.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:39:40 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has joined #openttd 11:44:45 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:51:41 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 11:55:40 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:04:04 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6d56:a805:d0a:4619] has joined #openttd 12:04:07 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:05:17 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:18:03 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.151.112] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 12:34:30 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:42:28 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:43:21 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has joined #openttd 12:44:57 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-003-183.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 12:51:43 <Ammler> next suse distro will have 1.7 current has 1.6.18 12:52:05 <Ammler> (at least 1.7.4) 12:53:32 <Ammler> well, you could also consider to give up svn 12:57:43 *** opa [pHBELeaj@rikki.fi] has joined #openttd 12:58:51 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:03:32 <opa> are newgrfs usually platformm dependent? 13:04:09 <FLHerne> They shouldn't be at all 13:05:10 <FLHerne> I've used standard newgrfs on at least 5 platforms, some very odd :P 13:05:26 <opa> just checked ISR and it had links to win and dos binaries 13:05:39 <FLHerne> That's for the graphics palette 13:05:51 <opa> although the info mentioned very old openttd version 13:06:58 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-159-42.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 13:07:01 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 13:07:10 <FLHerne> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/PalettesAndCoordinates 13:07:18 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.151.112] has joined #openttd 13:07:25 <FLHerne> Modern OTTD can use either just fine 13:12:18 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.151.112] has quit [] 13:12:34 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-21-137.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:13:54 <Ammler> but you might need to set the palette manually on older newgrfs 13:18:16 <planetmaker> well, you have in your cfg the 'default palette' which shall be assumed for newgrfs which don't declare their palette 13:18:42 <planetmaker> of course that will fail, if you use dos and windows-paletted newgrfs at the same time when they don't declare the palette 13:19:37 <planetmaker> opa: by default, I'd recomend you to get the windows-paletted newgrf as that is the default palette wich will be assumed when you made no changes at all to your cfg 13:20:06 <planetmaker> otoh, get ISR just from the online content... then you don't have to worry about versions ;-) 13:22:28 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-103-137.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 13:24:51 <opa> well i have net only on my phone (usb tethering on androidd with os x...), otherwise i would have done it 13:27:45 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-159-42.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:27:58 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-110-238.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 13:28:01 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 13:33:34 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-103-137.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:42:21 *** Elu [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:49:02 <opa> can someone give examples of newgrfs for industries, stations, trains, landscape? i'm looking for nice graphics and a bit bigger selection of trains than the regular ones 13:49:34 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:49:50 <opa> theres so many different sets available so its a bit hard to find good ones 13:50:38 <V453000> try them? 13:50:46 <V453000> try more 13:50:59 <V453000> nobody can tell you what really is "good" 13:51:14 <opa> i have to download them with my phone so its quite cumbersome 13:53:03 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 13:54:49 <opa> so the quality is quite good in most of the sets? 13:55:42 <FLHerne> FIRS [industries], UKRS2(+) [trains], eGRVTS, HEQS, Generic Tram Set [road vehicles & trams], OpenGFX+ Landscape, OGFX+ Trees [nicer ground & trees], NuTracks [rail tracks] 13:55:57 <FLHerne> That's what I use, or at least the key ones :P 13:57:16 <FLHerne> I can't think of any sets that aren't 'good quality', but there are some particularly good ones :-) 13:59:11 <opa> thanks 13:59:38 <opa> i remember trying firs but i was quite hard to get started 14:00:19 <FLHerne> Lots of industries :D 14:01:23 <Ammler> the ogfx+ newgrfs are good start 14:02:13 <Ammler> planetmaker: does ogfx+trains provide a light version? 14:11:34 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:13:43 <frosch123> add grfstrip to the makefile and produce two grfs :) 14:19:49 <planetmaker> ^^ that's what can be done 14:24:33 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-003-183.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 14:26:00 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.151.112] has joined #openttd 14:38:24 *** st-13770 [~st-13770@200.208.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 14:38:45 *** st-13770 [~st-13770@200.208.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has left #openttd [] 14:41:09 *** hackalittlebit [57c4261e@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:43:05 <hackalittlebit> frosch123: please have a look, I am curious. (can't help it) ;) 14:43:20 *** st-13908 [~st-13908@200.208.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 14:43:49 *** st-13908 [~st-13908@200.208.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has left #openttd [] 14:43:51 <frosch123> is there something new? 14:44:04 <hackalittlebit> yep 14:45:05 <frosch123> if you mean the stuff you posted 2 hours ago, i already replied one hour ago 14:45:24 <hackalittlebit> hu 14:45:33 <hackalittlebit> i'll have a look 14:47:26 <planetmaker> hackalittlebit: what is contained in the attached zip? 14:47:37 <planetmaker> (I don't like the need to download and unzip stuff) 14:47:57 <planetmaker> it's extra work and a border to review things 14:48:58 <hackalittlebit> planetmaker: I did that for alberth 14:49:14 <hackalittlebit> desiign 14:49:38 <planetmaker> ? 14:49:50 <hackalittlebit> but I can make one file no problem 14:50:09 <frosch123> planetmaker: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/fs5147/se4/map_generator_2.html 14:51:33 <hackalittlebit> frosch123: point one ok 14:52:11 <hackalittlebit> point 2 snow line is scenery in odel railroading 14:52:17 <hackalittlebit> model 14:52:20 <planetmaker> ty, frosch123 14:53:13 * frosch123 never saw snow on a model railroad 14:53:35 <hackalittlebit> hold on 14:53:56 <planetmaker> I wonder whether town names belong there... Probably yes. But it would be nice to have a way to consider the NewGRF town names as an option in the dropdown, too. Even if not (yet) configured in the NewGRF list. But it might be well out of scope here 14:54:10 <frosch123> hackalittlebit: google image search provides some hints :) 14:54:45 <frosch123> planetmaker: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1394/ 14:54:59 <hackalittlebit> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxyOl7ZVtt4&feature=related 14:55:24 <hackalittlebit> hehe 14:56:09 <planetmaker> ah, nice, frosch123 14:56:54 <planetmaker> frosch123: I actually wonder whether should remove the visibility of the old watery map edge... 14:57:12 <frosch123> hmm, modeling footsteps in the snow on a model railroad sounds like a lot of effort 14:57:25 <planetmaker> it's a setting we can't remove. But do we need it for new maps? 14:57:55 <frosch123> planetmaker: i like the expanding thing for those options 14:58:01 <frosch123> and it's not at all about old vs. new 14:58:09 <frosch123> but about choosing between island, inland or coast 14:58:19 <planetmaker> yes, I like that expansion for adv., too 14:58:52 <frosch123> and FLHerne said he uses that setting every day :p 14:59:35 <planetmaker> :-D 14:59:51 <planetmaker> you find that statement probably for every single setting by one person or another ;-) 15:00:11 <FLHerne> That's why you should have customisable menus :P 15:00:36 <FLHerne> Then people can put in the options they use often 15:01:25 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:33 <hackalittlebit> but the options are saved, aren't they 15:02:07 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 15:02:34 <FLHerne> Sorry, I mean customisable creation screens/option panels 15:02:51 <FLHerne> Menus would be good too though :P 15:08:47 <hackalittlebit> frosh123: do 'new game' 'advanced' 'show al', it will show you that place behind terrain type is occupied 15:09:32 <hackalittlebit> maybe put height beside map dimensions? 15:10:44 <hackalittlebit> frosch123: read above 15:16:07 <frosch123> hackalittlebit: you have either height or variety, not both 15:16:55 <frosch123> and putting height next to totally flat makes a lot of sense 15:17:55 <hackalittlebit> press 'se', 'terrain type hilly', advaced 15:18:45 <frosch123> and then? 15:19:45 <hackalittlebit> is that technically possible? 15:19:54 <frosch123> what? 15:20:22 <hackalittlebit> one widget in same position as other 15:20:37 <frosch123> yes, you can switch between them then 15:20:54 <hackalittlebit> then consider it done 15:21:20 <hackalittlebit> and snow height? 15:21:35 <hackalittlebit> I like it were it is 15:22:11 <hackalittlebit> only shows up in arctic 15:22:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:29:52 <frosch123> i have no real opinon on the snow line 15:30:12 <frosch123> i only wondered what could be moved to the second column of the map part 15:30:44 <frosch123> and moving snow line would open the option to move the rv side to the second coulumn 15:31:03 <frosch123> so almost all lines would have two things and the whole window would look less empty on the right 15:32:37 <hackalittlebit> posted updated version 15:34:13 <frosch123> what's next? 15:35:43 <hackalittlebit> hehe I'll see if we can improve understandebility of options. I will post proposal 15:36:26 <hackalittlebit> I have to go, see you 15:36:31 <frosch123> bye 15:38:08 *** hackalittlebit [57c4261e@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:39:50 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.4.15.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 15:53:24 *** Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:56:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:10:20 <Alberth> what did I do? 16:16:55 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.87.213] has joined #openttd 16:18:41 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.87.213] has quit [] 16:18:46 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.87.213] has joined #openttd 16:18:49 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.87.213] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:06 *** Nat_AFK is now known as Nat_aS 16:37:08 *** Nat_aS is now known as Nat_AFK 16:37:11 *** Nat_AFK is now known as Nat_aS 16:55:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:57:04 * andythenorth ponders how to create no-spin diffs with limited space 16:58:06 <Alberth> should I understand what that means? :) 16:59:08 <Alberth> are a Lim Kiln and a Brick works supposed to be next to each other? 16:59:31 <andythenorth> I'm going to build one of these: http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=rolligon+brute&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=9JeuT43rEou58gPdtoyMCQ&biw=1263&bih=668&sei=c5iuT_fRIITH8gOklNnOCQ 16:59:37 <andythenorth> using these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lego-62mm-D-x-46mm-Technic-Power-Puller-Wheel-Tire-/120682978930#ht_1297wt_907 16:59:40 <Alberth> it's nicely convenient for a quarry :) 17:00:02 <andythenorth> I'm using one large motor per axle for....more power 17:00:14 <andythenorth> and I need to use differentials on each axle, or it won't be able to turn 17:00:26 <andythenorth> but diffs mean one wheel can spin if it loses traction 17:00:43 <andythenorth> if that happens for all 4 axles, the truck goes nowhere :P 17:00:47 <Alberth> ah, now it makes sense :) 17:00:53 <andythenorth> usually the solution is locking diffs 17:01:03 <andythenorth> but I don't have room for locking diffs 17:01:20 <andythenorth> and I don't have room for one motor per wheel, which was my first choice :) 17:02:05 <Alberth> it's not big enough? :) 17:02:48 <andythenorth> nope 17:03:11 <andythenorth> I need a lot of clearance between the wheels and chassis 17:03:15 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 17:03:17 <andythenorth> so the chassis must be narrow 17:03:37 <andythenorth> hmm 17:03:44 <andythenorth> maybe I just build it with diffs and see if it spins 17:04:59 <Alberth> don't solve a problem until you actually have it :) 17:05:07 <andythenorth> meh 17:05:13 <andythenorth> with lego that means rebuilding :P 17:05:34 <planetmaker> you do that with your NewGRFs constantly :-P Hello andy :-) 17:05:39 <andythenorth> hello 17:05:49 *** Firartix [~artixds@51.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 17:06:18 <andythenorth> maybe if I connect 2 diffs together there's less chance of spin 17:06:34 <Alberth> oh, and a nice fertisiler plant right next to the quarry for transporting chemicals back from the lime kiln! 17:07:04 <andythenorth> Alberth: more neighbouring industry checks are possible :P 17:07:39 *** NataS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 17:08:35 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:15:09 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:23:39 *** NataS is now known as Nat_AFK 17:26:06 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 17:30:00 *** NataS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 17:32:43 *** Nat_AFK [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:33:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:36:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:37:23 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:39:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24240 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed) 17:39:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:39:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 2 changes by telanus 17:39:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 132 changes by Rubidium 17:39:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 66 changes by jpx_ 17:39:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 10 changes by glx 17:39:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 126 changes by planetmaker 17:44:55 <andythenorth> meh 17:47:04 <planetmaker> muh 17:47:10 <Alberth> mooh 17:53:02 <andythenorth> I should stop playing 'mountainous, high water' 17:53:05 <andythenorth> :P 17:53:15 <andythenorth> all land routes seem like a chore 17:53:25 <andythenorth> I end up with 10 bazillion ships every time 17:53:31 <andythenorth> and hundreds of feeders :P 17:55:30 <andythenorth> also I need ideas to make CHIPS less crappy 17:56:23 <FLHerne> ISR-style ground tiles, so I can fit it in with my dock better 17:56:38 <andythenorth> which dock? 17:56:50 <FLHerne> ISR-style one 17:57:19 <andythenorth> the CHIPS dock is lame 17:57:24 <andythenorth> but I hate ISR style ground 17:57:54 <FLHerne> I've done a CHIPS-style harbour: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=156610 17:58:14 <FLHerne> CHIPS ground is better, but ISR has so many more types 17:58:15 <andythenorth> hmm 17:58:17 <andythenorth> marico 17:58:57 <FLHerne> That almost fits in, I'll be using Quast65's newobjects next though 17:59:06 <andythenorth> the CHIPS ground is meh 17:59:10 <FLHerne> ...which are ISR-style, of course 17:59:23 <andythenorth> the concrete is just blah 17:59:34 <andythenorth> maybe it should have tile borders 17:59:44 <FLHerne> Real concrete is blah too 18:00:04 <FLHerne> It looks like concrete, which is good. Tile borders would be ugly 18:01:11 <FLHerne> Mud platforms that matched FIRS industries would be good too: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=157250 18:01:28 <andythenorth> how quaint 18:01:41 <andythenorth> there's no solution to that 18:01:51 <FLHerne> Eh? 18:02:01 <andythenorth> well....maybe a parameter on CHIPS 18:02:10 <andythenorth> I use the original TTD graphics 18:02:13 <andythenorth> where the mud matches 18:03:26 <FLHerne> Ah. Couldn't you use dedicated sprites in FIRS instead of OGFX mud? 18:03:41 <FLHerne> Although OGFX is better anyway :P 18:04:02 <andythenorth> that solution causes politics 18:04:03 <FLHerne> s/OGFX/OGFX mud/ 18:05:04 <FLHerne> Why the politics? 18:06:57 <andythenorth> because then FIRS doesn't match the base set 18:07:02 <andythenorth> it's tedious 18:08:56 <FLHerne> Can CHIPS not use the baseset mud then? 18:09:13 <andythenorth> no 18:09:21 <andythenorth> station spec is inadequate 18:09:24 <andythenorth> known problem 18:10:20 <FLHerne> Can CHIPS detect what baseset is in use? 18:10:23 <andythenorth> no 18:10:29 <andythenorth> that's not permitted as it could be abused 18:10:33 <andythenorth> also 18:10:37 <andythenorth> [shrug] 18:10:44 <andythenorth> I don't really care, I don't use opengfx 18:12:03 <andythenorth> same reason I don't fix the FIRS mud ground tile, even though it looks wrong 18:12:11 <planetmaker> No-one who makes bigger graphics sets cares 18:12:38 <andythenorth> it's too much work to support both 18:12:46 <andythenorth> nothing wrong with opengfx btw ;) 18:13:14 <planetmaker> except that no-one cares ;-) 18:13:33 <andythenorth> it's probably what most players are using now? 18:13:48 <FLHerne> How do FIRS mud tiles look wrong? 18:13:51 <andythenorth> I imagine the number of players finding the original TTD graphics is a small fraction of openttd downloads 18:14:08 <andythenorth> FLHerne: they use 'plain mud' tile, rather than 'mud with tracks' 18:14:13 <planetmaker> I dion't have statistics of the last half year. 18:14:25 <andythenorth> opengfx substitutes the original 'mud with tracks' tile for a plain tile 18:14:34 <planetmaker> and I can only go by either bug reports or forums 18:15:06 * andythenorth is stuck in 1994 18:16:56 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@81.152.251.165] has joined #openttd 18:17:40 <andythenorth> also what railtype sets are people in this channel using? 18:18:01 <andythenorth> I might need to make CHIPS work only with Pikka's tracks 18:18:05 <Alberth> the default one :) 18:18:36 <Alberth> enhanced a bit with gfx+ :) 18:19:16 <FLHerne> NuTracks 18:19:32 <FLHerne> I might try Pikka's kind sometime though 18:19:58 <andythenorth> hmm 18:20:12 <andythenorth> how do I disable CHIPS if pikka tracks are not present? 18:20:51 <planetmaker> most people - if they use railtracks - seem to use NuTracks 18:21:00 <planetmaker> just an uneducated impression, though 18:21:18 <FLHerne> Why would you want to do that? 18:21:29 <andythenorth> because it CHIPS will be broken with other railsets 18:22:22 <FLHerne> Is that a good idea? Breaking the significant majority of tracksets including the default seems a bit silly :-( 18:22:29 <andythenorth> the platforms will be drawn over the tracks 18:22:36 <andythenorth> I use pikka tracks 18:23:03 <andythenorth> the only way CHIPS will work with them is to change CHIPS :P 18:23:11 <FLHerne> Most people don't though... 18:23:40 <FLHerne> Have it use different sprites if Pikka's set exists? 18:24:14 <planetmaker> :-) 18:24:21 <planetmaker> easy actually 18:24:45 <andythenorth> the sprites are GRM-ed 18:25:02 <andythenorth> but probably the action 1 might be skipped 18:25:16 <FLHerne> So what's GRM-ing? 18:25:58 <andythenorth> GRF Resource Management 18:26:10 <andythenorth> I don't understand the purpose of it, but it's necessary for stations 18:26:23 <andythenorth> some stations /s 18:26:25 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:29:16 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@81.152.251.165] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:32:11 <planetmaker> I think it's just an announcement of which grf uses the base station tiles 18:32:18 <planetmaker> or something along those lines 18:33:16 <andythenorth> anyway, CHIPS is now fixed for pikka tracks 18:34:14 <andythenorth> and possibly broken for other sets 18:34:24 <FLHerne> does that de-fix all other sets then? 18:34:35 <FLHerne> aargh, ninja'd 18:35:11 <andythenorth> broken for maglev in default 18:35:16 <andythenorth> looks ok for monorail 18:35:21 <andythenorth> normal tracks are meh 18:36:21 <andythenorth> swedish rails looks kind of ok 18:36:40 <FLHerne> NuTracks? 18:37:47 <andythenorth> untested 18:38:07 <Alberth> FLHerne: your chance to test it first :p 18:39:32 <FLHerne> Alberth: Any compiled versions available yet? 18:39:36 *** Sita [proxy@has.lotsofshoes.nl] has joined #openttd 18:40:01 <andythenorth> not yet 18:40:41 <Alberth> :o you use a computer without the necessary tools installed and ready for use?? :o 18:41:04 <andythenorth> FLHerne: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2998/chips-nightly-r183.zip 18:41:14 <FLHerne> For NewGRFs, yes. I have suitable tools for other stuff :P 18:44:43 <FLHerne> Looks reasonable :-) 18:45:04 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@81.152.251.165] has joined #openttd 18:47:01 <FLHerne> Sand stations leave grass showing with Pikka's tracks though 18:47:37 <FLHerne> and the mud ones look strange with Pikka ballast 18:50:30 <andythenorth> sand stations will be deprecated anyway 18:50:40 <andythenorth> I fixed FIRS :P 18:52:27 <andythenorth> hmm 18:52:34 <andythenorth> CHIPS looks better with the ISR dock sprites 18:52:56 * andythenorth wonders how to make it a parameter choice 18:53:04 <V453000> btw andy the new farms are a lot better 18:53:11 <V453000> havent tested the other industries too much yet 18:53:24 <andythenorth> what's better about the farms? 18:53:43 <Rienzilla> hmm 18:53:54 <Rienzilla> is there a way to improve graphics performance in openttd on macos? 18:54:07 <Rienzilla> fully zoomed out the game is pretty much unplayable 18:54:07 <andythenorth> yes 18:54:12 <andythenorth> don't use OS X 18:54:23 <andythenorth> turn off animation 18:54:26 <Rienzilla> we thank you for your constructive comment :) 18:54:29 <Rienzilla> lol 18:54:30 <Rienzilla> ok 18:54:31 <andythenorth> turn off full detail 18:54:37 <andythenorth> buy a faster mac 18:54:41 <V453000> the productions andy :) 18:54:44 <Rienzilla> well it's not that slow andy 18:54:51 <andythenorth> play a smaller map 18:54:55 <Rienzilla> my much slower laptop on linux does not have any trouble at all 18:54:59 <andythenorth> use fewer vehicles 18:55:04 <andythenorth> use your linux box ;) 18:55:12 <planetmaker> enable the 8bpp mode explicity in your cfg file might help, too 18:55:31 <andythenorth> I thought the OS X blitter was forced to 32bpp sometime ago? :O 18:55:34 <planetmaker> by default osx uses 32bpp (as opposed to all other OS) 18:55:47 <planetmaker> not forced, but defaulting to 18:55:52 <andythenorth> I thought 8bpp was broken for OS X? Bad assumption? 18:55:54 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has joined #openttd 18:56:00 <planetmaker> broken on some installs 18:56:09 <andythenorth> Rienzilla: what box do you have, how much cpu is openttd eating? 18:56:13 <planetmaker> or some hardware 18:58:05 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has quit [] 18:58:17 <FLHerne> Install Linux on your Mac? 18:58:45 <planetmaker> :-) 18:58:57 <planetmaker> FreeBSD :-P 18:59:17 <planetmaker> wouldn't change many of the man pages then ;-) 19:00:05 <planetmaker> like ... "SED(1) BSD General Commands Manual SED(1) " 19:00:13 <FLHerne> Might not have the hardware support? BSD license so Apple might not have donated drive code? 19:00:19 <Rienzilla> andythenorth: it's a recent mac mini with an i5 19:00:23 <FLHerne> s/drive/driver/ 19:00:38 <Rienzilla> and i think it's just the rendering that is slow; if I zoom in the game runs fine 19:00:47 <andythenorth> I have i7 2.7Ghz, a 256x256 map with not many vehicles uses 30% on full zoom out 19:00:47 <planetmaker> FLHerne, macs are quite default hardware... 19:01:10 <andythenorth> also they open source Darwin 19:01:11 <Alberth> Rienzilla: perhaps changing the sprite cache helps 19:01:20 <Rienzilla> Alberth: what's that? 19:01:26 <andythenorth> heh 19:01:29 <planetmaker> good point, Alberth ! 19:01:32 <andythenorth> FISH ships bounce when fully zoomed out 19:01:37 <planetmaker> I keep forgetting it... 19:01:39 <Alberth> it's a cache for sprites? :) 19:01:42 <andythenorth> the bounding box must change size :P 19:02:25 <FLHerne> planetmaker: Ah, they are now? I have many of the nubus variety :P 19:02:59 <FLHerne> Which are about as non-standard as they get :-( 19:03:09 <planetmaker> They use intel CPUs and AMD / NVidea graphics card for years 19:03:21 <planetmaker> At least the last 5 or so 19:03:54 <FLHerne> I know they're Intel now, but just assumed they kept the random quirks :P 19:04:29 <planetmaker> one of the biggest differences used to be the BIOS, which is some kind of uefi... but that's getting more common now, too 19:05:34 <Rienzilla> looks like all rendering is done by the cpu :) 19:05:54 <planetmaker> kinda yes 19:06:02 <NataS> we still don't have GPU support? 19:06:05 <Alberth> Rienzilla: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=31 we had several 'it is slow' complaints on 1.2.0 the sprite cache settings sometimes helped and sometimes not 19:06:13 <Alberth> NataS: nope, not useful 19:06:28 <NataS> it's usefull, would free up CPU power for pathfinding 19:06:32 <NataS> which is more important 19:07:08 <andythenorth> are modern GPUs really good at drawing sprites then? 19:07:54 <andythenorth> NataS: your pathfinding is slow? 19:07:59 <planetmaker> they're good at putting textures on 3D models 19:08:16 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-121-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:08:21 <NataS> not really, but not everyone has an i7 19:08:41 <NataS> it seems it would help some older computers though. 19:08:57 <andythenorth> they should just not use newgrfs 19:09:03 <Rienzilla> lol at 1920x1080 it uses a complete core for just the welcome screen :D 19:09:05 <NataS> and the really good pathfinding algor... 19:09:08 <NataS> that's terrible 19:09:20 <NataS> you are mean 19:09:26 <andythenorth> why? 19:09:35 <andythenorth> what's mean about helping them run their game faster? 19:09:40 <NataS> >Don't have an expensive computer 19:09:40 * andythenorth is confused 19:09:46 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.116] has left #openttd [QUIT :Leaving.] 19:09:49 <NataS> >can't play a nice game. 19:10:10 <NataS> it's not Crysis, it should be able to work efficiently on all computers. 19:10:23 <NataS> and make the best use of available resources. 19:10:37 <andythenorth> it does make the best use of available resources 19:10:40 <andythenorth> it uses lots of CPU 19:10:59 *** Guest216 is now known as AD 19:11:40 <NataS> yeah, but pathfinding is the most CPU consuming activity, so less intensive things ought to be shunted to the GPU 19:11:51 <andythenorth> do you have new profiling charts? 19:11:51 <NataS> if you have a graphics card, you might as well use it for something 19:11:59 <NataS> no 19:12:12 <Alberth> NataS: then please provide a working demo 19:12:21 <planetmaker> whether PF is the most consuming task or not really depends on the map, vehicle count, newgrfs, etc 19:12:25 <andythenorth> first I'd prove that the problem exists 19:12:52 <andythenorth> recent profiling suggests that removing newgrf would provide the biggest efficiency gain for the savegames that were profiled 19:16:16 <andythenorth> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4934 19:17:26 <Rienzilla> meh the difference is so huge :) 19:17:38 <planetmaker> did you increase sprite cache size? 19:18:11 <FLHerne> Interesting - Presence/absence of newgrfs didn't have any obvious effect on my Powerbook 19:18:35 <FLHerne> Perhaps it was too slow already so it didn't matter or something? 19:19:27 <planetmaker> you can check that by the cpu usage 19:19:48 <FLHerne> 100% permanently, no matter what :P 19:20:00 <planetmaker> then it's too slow obviously ;-) 19:20:14 <planetmaker> you probably would notice that it's more laggy with NewGRFs 19:21:17 <FLHerne> I didn't...I did notice that adding ten or so vehicles had a noticeable slowdown, but not NewGRFs 19:22:21 <planetmaker> well... Highly depends, of course, which NewGRFs 19:22:36 <planetmaker> Adding vehicle NewGRFs or station NewGRFs w/o using them ingame has ofc. no effect 19:23:06 <planetmaker> adding an industry NewGRF like ECS (and FIRS, but a bit less so) has a measurable effect, esp. on larger maps 19:23:42 <FLHerne> eGRVTS with 10 vehicles was no different to default with 10 vehicles. 19:23:51 <FLHerne> FIRS crashed the game... 19:23:56 <planetmaker> egrvts is not a terribly complicated NewGRF 19:24:08 <planetmaker> FIRS crashed it?! 19:24:21 <andythenorth> happens 19:24:39 <FLHerne> Having an IRC client open at the same time crashed it, too :P 19:24:46 <planetmaker> err... :-P 19:24:56 <andythenorth> you're using OS 9 :P 19:24:56 <FLHerne> I doubt FIRS specifically was to blame 19:25:22 <FLHerne> Nah, http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/ 19:25:31 <FLHerne> Linux 19:32:55 *** mal2_ [~mal2@port-92-206-40-196.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 19:34:04 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.151.112] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 19:34:23 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> I might need to make CHIPS work only with Pikka's tracks <-- when i get my way with a curvy track set, you'd probably have to throw away all your work :p 19:34:37 <andythenorth> curvy stations? :) 19:35:43 <planetmaker> any work done to that end, Eddi|zuHause - or only concept stage so far? 19:37:20 <Eddi|zuHause> <Rienzilla> fully zoomed out the game is pretty much unplayable <-- i generall only zoom out while paused 19:38:41 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no work yet, except a prospect of the combinatorial stuff 19:39:56 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: afair michi_cc tried to make some graphics, but got nowhere 19:40:42 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe pixa could generate them 19:40:58 *** NataS is now known as Nat_AFK 19:41:01 <planetmaker> :-) 19:41:23 <planetmaker> Nat_AFK, you know that a name change to indicate AFK is absolutely not needed and only spams? 19:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but i was currently working on having pixa generate CETS sprites (arbitrarily coloured boxes for now) 19:41:46 <michi_cc> planetmaker: Conceptually, it's quite easy, but drawing sprites that look good in practice is difficult stuff :p 19:41:52 <planetmaker> ah, I see. For the cargo, Eddi|zuHause ? 19:42:08 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no, more for all the currently undrawn vehicles 19:42:29 <planetmaker> I see, michi_cc :-) So it "just" needs sprites for all possible combinations? 19:42:39 <andythenorth> make pixa follow paths? 19:42:53 <andythenorth> curves are just [some stuff I learnt in school about maths, but forgot] 19:43:08 <andythenorth> polynomial equations could draw smiley faces iirc :P 19:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i maybe need different pixa sequences for each sprite, instead of the whole spritegroup 19:43:21 <andythenorth> maybe yes 19:43:26 <michi_cc> It needs sprites for the basic building blocks, the various combinations can then be superimposed. 19:43:49 <andythenorth> pixa can load sprites 19:43:51 <andythenorth> and combine them 19:44:00 <andythenorth> I do cargos that way 19:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, andythenorth, that is probably useful 19:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> but we need the basic parts first 19:44:31 <andythenorth> got any example output yet? 19:44:41 <andythenorth> I just picked BANDIT up co-incidentally 19:44:46 <andythenorth> so my head is back in pixa-space 19:44:48 <Eddi|zuHause> for each rail bit, the section from the middle to the edge of the tile 19:44:56 <Eddi|zuHause> in three variants. straight, left turn, right turn 19:45:09 <Pixa> Pixa-space is the best space :p 19:45:13 <planetmaker> michi_cc, so each tile's tracks would probably need to be composed of two sprites 19:45:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 19:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> 12 trackdir-bits, times 3 variants 19:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> probably 3 layers 19:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> track base, sleepers, rails 19:46:31 <planetmaker> well, yes, that, too 19:46:58 <planetmaker> But separating those three layers would actually make it even easier (and better looking) 19:47:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 19:51:59 <andythenorth> oh :| 19:52:19 <andythenorth> when a vehicle is built, it's preferable that capacity matches buy menu reported capacity 19:52:20 <andythenorth> ? 19:52:28 <andythenorth> [BANDIT fails at this] 19:52:47 <planetmaker> well. Other values would be at least unexpected 19:53:13 <planetmaker> But if the cargo... is lighter or more bulky and the purchase list reports for another cargo... 19:53:41 <andythenorth> it's an issue due to refit subtypes 19:54:02 <andythenorth> I report max capacity, but as-built capacity uses first refit subtype, which is....less 19:54:07 <andythenorth> can probably fix that 20:02:14 <andythenorth> fixed 20:09:42 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 20:15:05 *** Sita [proxy@has.lotsofshoes.nl] has quit [] 20:17:12 <FLHerne> Has anyone tried to compile OTTD for Linux/m68k? 20:18:13 * FLHerne tries for the sake of it 20:32:04 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:33:26 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: as long as you have all the libraries, why would you expect any problems? 20:34:03 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: of course, you may have trouble getting it to run on low speed/memory 20:34:35 <FLHerne> Performance, mostly. If a 133MHz PPC is just barely playable with 64MB RAM, a 33MHz and 16MB RAM might not work at all 20:34:43 <FLHerne> Ninja'd :-( 20:35:21 <Eddi|zuHause> 16MB might be the more severe limitation 20:35:30 <Eddi|zuHause> TT original used around 4MB 20:35:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and ran ok-ish on 33MHz with low number of vehicles 20:36:34 <michi_cc> FLHerne: It might work if you use an 8bpp blitter, set "min_zoom" to 2 (more zoom in == more memory) and the sprite cache size to ~ 4. 20:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but it was written in hand-optimized assembler. not sure if a compiler can reach that 20:36:40 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-77-86-195-47.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:22 <FLHerne> On my PB1400, OTTD is borderline useable with all those tweaks done. Uses about 20MB. 20:38:06 <Eddi|zuHause> we used to provide morphos binaries 20:38:47 <Eddi|zuHause> but that was discontinued because it required gcc 2.ancient 20:39:13 <Eddi|zuHause> which couldn't handle the C++ magic we needed 20:40:33 <FLHerne> Interesting, I never heard of that :P 20:40:45 <FLHerne> I have a G4, so I'll have to try it :D 20:40:52 <michi_cc> OpenTTD has a lot more features than TTD had, so it's not surprising at all if OpenTTD needs more CPU power than TTD did. 20:42:07 <Eddi|zuHause> does openttd still build with gcc 3.x? 20:44:38 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:01:20 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:02 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 21:02:09 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db13313.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:06:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:11:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67695.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 21:15:06 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67695.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:34:00 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ti0123a340-0042.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 21:43:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AFE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:03 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:49:48 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 21:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> concerning a 32bpp-free "light" version of ogfx+trains, wouldn't bananas prevent such a thing, because of same grf-id? 21:54:32 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, no. It would be the same NewGRF, but without the 32bpp sprites. The md5sums would match by means of grfid- m 21:54:40 <planetmaker> *grfid -m 21:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes. but you cannot upload both to bananas 21:54:56 <planetmaker> That's true 21:55:05 <Eddi|zuHause> which makes it useless 21:55:06 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the goal is that bananas does the grfstrip itself 21:55:13 <planetmaker> The ultimate plan is that banans offers that stripping itself 21:55:18 <frosch123> and users can choose what to download 21:56:06 <frosch123> but so far ottd can likely not deal with multiple grfs with the same md5sum, but different colour depths and or zoom levels 21:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll pick a pseudorandom one? 21:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> whichever it finds first 22:00:21 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:58 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:41:53 <frosch123> night 22:41:56 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d5c33.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:13 *** mal2_ [~mal2@port-92-206-40-196.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:52:24 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:57:06 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-77-86-195-47.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 22:58:17 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:04:44 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-58-54.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 23:05:54 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db13313.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 23:10:28 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-110-238.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:04 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-121-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:11:16 *** Nat_AFK is now known as NataS 23:19:18 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-003-183.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 23:45:56 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:58:49 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd