Log for #openttd on 17th May 2012:
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00:31:25  <ayr-andy> ok, I've got the map I need working but it is too far into the future, is there a way to remove all players like return to default? hopefully a console command? I'm thinking it should work if I remove everything and save it
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02:17:18  <jpmac97> can anyone help
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09:01:20  <kbadk> When I click on an industry, how come it says something like "Production last month: 63 tonnes of iron ore (60% transported)", when I have a train going a very short distance to there, and there's rarely anything waiting there?
09:01:54  <kbadk> Is it really because it's been waiting for too long at the station before it gets transported? Or how can I increase the amount transported?
09:02:25  <kbadk> Do the secondary industry that I'm transferring the resource to only accept limited amount or what is causing this?
09:10:26  <Alberth> 63 ton is very little
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09:10:50  <Alberth> @calc 63 * 0.6
09:10:51  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 37.8
09:11:08  <Andreas> Hi
09:11:17  <Alberth> 60% sounds about right
09:12:01  <Alberth> you can get better rating by doing some stuff, read the game mechanics wiki page
09:12:04  <Alberth> hi Andreas
09:12:30  <Andreas> I would like to get started developing :) Is the list at still up to date?
09:12:57  <Andreas> I thought I pick some easy tasks like Display date of files in save/load GUI.
09:13:44  <Alberth> kbadk: you could watch the amount of cargo lying at the station, and see whether it decreases while the train is away
09:14:07  <Alberth> Andreas: I think so, but the easiest way to check is to build trunk, and check in-game
09:14:37  <Alberth> and/or read the fly-spray issues
09:15:32  <Alberth> kbadk: there is an upper limit to the amount of accepted cargo, but with default industries that is a lot more than 63 ton/month
09:15:35  <Andreas> Thanks, I will do that
09:16:32  <kbadk> Thanks for the feedback, I'll have a look at the game mechanics. You say 63 tonnes is very little; is there a way for me to increase that number?
09:17:17  <Alberth> game mechanics also explains how industries work :p
09:17:27  <kbadk> Thanks ;-)
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09:17:44  <Alberth> but there are also newgrfs that give you full control if that's what you want
09:18:09  <Alberth> changing/adding a newgrf cannot be done in a running game, you'll have to start a new one
09:19:30  <kbadk> No thanks, I prefer playing it the way it was meant to be played
09:19:50  <Alberth> well, opinions differ on that :)
09:20:11  <Alberth> but I like it with a bit of random behaviour too :D
09:20:27  <kbadk> what random behaviour could that be?
09:20:49  <Alberth> indsutry production changes, industries closing/opening
09:21:05  <kbadk> If random behaviour is the same as Godzilla or earthquakes and whatelse could totally ruin my Sim City game, then I don't like it one bit :(
09:21:46  <kbadk> I believe industries closes here as well, forrests and oil wells disappear at least
09:21:51  <kbadk> and new forrests pop up
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09:22:14  <Alberth> play micro-polis, it's open source simcity, but they removed godzilla (due to copyright I think), and the airplane disaster
09:22:42  <Alberth> but there are no really big disasters in openttd, only small ones
09:22:49  <Alberth> and you can turn them off :p
09:23:06  <kbadk> Yeah, I haven't really noticed anything myself either
09:23:10  <Alberth> (except accidents)
09:23:19  <kbadk> and it's been a decade since I played Sim City I think ;-)
09:24:41  <Alberth> I did a bit of hacking in the open source version, mostly documenting, code refactoring
09:25:24  <Alberth> but it did not appeal as much to me much
09:25:37  <Alberth> s/much$/any more/
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09:28:49  <kbadk> would be cool to contribute to a project like this, but I'm not much of a C++ guy I'm afraid
09:30:11  <Alberth> there are other ways too,  wiki, translations, being helpful to new users
09:30:32  <Alberth> you can also make newgrf extensions, eg a new vehicle or industry set
09:31:41  <Alberth> I think there are a few wiki pages about things you can do, but don't let that limit you. You can also do stuff that nobody wrote down :)
09:32:05  <kbadk> I guess :)
09:32:23  <Alberth> can you make 3D models?
09:33:07  <kbadk> no, actually programming is what I find the most interesting, I just haven't done much with C++ in particular
09:33:38  <Alberth> ok.
09:34:04  <Alberth> there are also a few python projects, eg NML
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09:35:11  <Alberth>  <-- a lot of development with things around openttd happens there
09:35:59  <Alberth> and you can make a good AI or a nice game script. That's in squirrel
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09:36:42  <Alberth> just stick around, and I am sure you'll find something :p
09:36:51  <kbadk> ;-) i will
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10:02:43  <Zuu> kbadk: If you start by doing eg. squirrel or something else you might find out that you miss a feature in the C++-part of OpenTTD. In that case you'll have motivation to start looking at the C++ code and trying to implement the feature that you miss. :-)
10:03:48  <Zuu> A starting point for AI-programming:
10:04:14  <Zuu> Its useful also if you want to write your own Game Script, as they both build on the same foundation.
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10:07:38  <krinn> hi all
10:07:50  <Alberth> hi
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10:34:57  <NGC3982> morning :)
10:35:08  * NGC3982 just learned entry-exit
10:38:54  <Alberth> but you didn't just come in :p
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10:41:56  <NGC3982> ;)
10:42:03  <NGC3982> i thought i learned entry-exit
10:42:08  <NGC3982> but it looks like i didnt
10:42:08  <NGC3982> :(
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11:54:24  <Zuu> NGC3982: So now you better learn exit or you will be stuck here forever :-)
11:54:57  <NGC3982> :D
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12:15:16  <NGC3982> bah
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13:10:37  <FLHerne> Is there any way to (cheatily) remove vehicles? I seem to have a pair of buses that don't want to go anywhere :-(
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13:21:51  <Alberth> messed with newgrfs in the game? If so, all hope is lost
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13:30:43  <xiong> FLHerne, here's a risky suggestion: Turn over control of your company to an AI. I've seen AI vehicles in need of service give up waiting where they *must* wait and go to depot. No guarantees!
13:32:55  <CornishPasty> FLHerne: are they blocked by one-way roads? :P
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13:45:43  <krinn> FLHerne: the train crossing your poor buses should work too
13:57:21  * NGC3982 learned entry-exit again
13:58:43  <Alberth> You figured out what you missed previously?
13:59:36  <NGC3982> kind of
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15:29:54  <TunnelWicht> it is insane to build a ring around the whole map (8000x8000) and collect oil from nearly all oil-fields with trains?
15:30:04  <TunnelWicht> *is it
15:30:25  <TWerkhoven2[l]> depends on what you call insane
15:30:40  <TunnelWicht> we made 1.5 MRD euros in one year
15:30:59  <TunnelWicht> *ingame year
15:31:05  <TunnelWicht> it feels a bit like cheating
15:31:50  <Sacro> Milliard?
15:32:15  <TunnelWicht> 1.500.000.000 €
15:33:04  <TWerkhoven2[l]> how many refineries do you transport it to, and do you transport the goods?
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15:33:33  <TunnelWicht> 8 refineries and yes we transport most of the goods
15:34:01  <TunnelWicht> and every single trains loops in the ring all the time
15:34:06  <TWerkhoven2[l]> yes, thats insane yes
15:34:24  <opa> how many trains?
15:34:32  <TunnelWicht> 500?
15:34:47  <TunnelWicht> 685
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15:34:57  <TunnelWicht> on 3 tracks
15:37:58  <TunnelWicht> is it intented to collect oil from the oil fields directly with trains?
15:39:52  <TunnelWicht> =)
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16:33:28  <Alberth> with such insane distances it is easy to make money
16:35:53  <TunnelWicht> :D
16:36:38  <TunnelWicht> average: 1.600.000 per train and refinery
16:36:43  <TunnelWicht> afair
16:37:31  <NGC3982> "öl" is beer in swedish.
16:37:35  <NGC3982> pro-tip of the day
16:38:03  <Alberth> they stopped using words?
16:40:18  <TunnelWicht> hm?
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16:53:11  <Alberth> andythenorth: hi, would it be an idea to speed-up FISH boats by eg 10% when empty?
16:54:15  <Alberth> it looks a bit weird to have a fully loaded and an unloaded boat go at the same speed
16:59:52  <Terkhen> hello
17:04:21  <andythenorth> Alberth: could do
17:04:33  <Alberth> hi Terkhen
17:04:42  <andythenorth> the log tug does it
17:04:49  <andythenorth> and one of the hovercraft
17:06:26  <TunnelWicht> btw, the network-code is a bit unstable
17:07:19  <TunnelWicht> on my linux-machine (arch linux, 32bit, linux kernel 3.3.6) i get disconnects very often
17:07:38  <TunnelWicht> on my windows-machine (win7), everything is fine (on the same server)
17:08:13  <Alberth> and the windows machine is faster than the linux machine?
17:09:09  <Alberth> your machine has to run at least as fast as the server
17:09:38  <Alberth> a bit more in fact, as the server tends to skip drawing to the screen :p
17:10:27  <Zuu> NGC3982: And "beer" (spelled with one e) is "pray" in swedish
17:10:58  <Zuu> could also be to ask someone for something
17:15:15  <TunnelWicht> Alberth: its the same hardware
17:15:24  <Alberth> ok
17:15:35  <Alberth> don't know what causes it then
17:16:04  <TunnelWicht> i tried some other servers... and i get disconnects too
17:16:36  <TunnelWicht> the problem is, that the error-messages are very general
17:20:23  <planetmaker> they're even more general, if you don't quote them ;-)
17:21:21  <TunnelWicht> hard to reproduce ^^'
17:22:05  <planetmaker> but if we don't know *what* issue you have we can't help you at all
17:22:19  <planetmaker> nor give any advise which even might help
17:22:31  <TunnelWicht> let me try to get the english error-message
17:23:26  <NGC3982> Zuu: praying*.
17:23:33  <NGC3982> to ask, att be.
17:23:39  <NGC3982> to pray, att be.
17:23:42  <NGC3982> :)
17:24:18  <TunnelWicht> NGC3982: so, you pray for food at the resteraunt? nice
17:24:27  <TunnelWicht> *restaurant
17:24:55  <NGC3982> well, its the same word.
17:25:20  <NGC3982> pray, praying, prayed > be, ber, bad (om).
17:28:56  <TunnelWicht> "Network game connection loss"
17:29:01  <TunnelWicht> thats what i get
17:29:08  <TunnelWicht> *lost
17:30:29  <planetmaker> that's usually a sign of a flaky connection which is interrupted
17:30:42  <planetmaker> or your computer is too slow
17:32:01  <TunnelWicht> 4GB ram and a quad-core :/
17:32:33  <planetmaker> has nothing to do with the connection of the network then. And the cpu cores... don't matter really much
17:32:40  <planetmaker> nor the RAM
17:33:18  <planetmaker> mostly the speed of a single core defines how much you can take. And the network connection might even be out of your hands. Bad provider or so
17:33:48  <TunnelWicht> in other games (for example: xonotic, minecraft), i dont get any connection-problems
17:34:04  <TunnelWicht> my IRC and Jabber also works well :)
17:34:18  <TunnelWicht> *are also working well
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17:38:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24261 /trunk/src/lang/ (latvian.txt russian.txt swedish.txt):
17:38:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:38:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 18 changes by Parastais
17:38:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:38:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovenian - 2 changes by
17:38:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: swedish - 3 changes by Joel_A
17:39:28  <glx> TunnelWicht: wifi ?
17:39:38  <TunnelWicht> nope
17:39:39  <Alberth> other games have different network characteristics usually, and irc/jabber is no traffic at all
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17:41:20  <TunnelWicht> teamspeak(3) is also working while i get the disconnects
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17:44:27  <Alberth> so it's not the connection itself
17:44:55  <Alberth> (but the data stream)
17:45:15  <planetmaker> teamspeak and OpenTTD probably use different type of traffic
17:45:21  <planetmaker> might be handled quite a bit differently
17:45:27  <Alberth> or your cpu. Did you check whether you have 1 core fully used?
17:45:36  <TunnelWicht> sure. teamspeak is UDP afaik
17:45:47  <TunnelWicht> note fully used, no
17:46:03  <TunnelWicht> *not
17:46:24  <TunnelWicht> i already look at my conky
17:46:31  <Alberth> ie at a quad-core that is showns as 25% usage, normally
17:46:34  <TunnelWicht> *always (damn)
17:47:42  <TunnelWicht> i can see the usage of each core :) and evry core is under 20% when playing opentt
17:47:44  <TunnelWicht> d
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17:50:03  <Zuu> TunnelWicht: What is the map size of the game you are trying to play?
17:51:46  <TunnelWicht> 8000x8000
17:51:58  <TunnelWicht> but i got disconnects on other mapsizes too
17:52:19  <TunnelWicht> 512x512, 2024x2024 and 4096x4096
17:56:44  <Zuu> Do you get disconnected on 512x512 on a non-patched build?
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18:05:00  <TunnelWicht> Zuu: thats what i tried to say
18:05:03  <TunnelWicht> :)
18:06:20  <Zuu> It sounded like you were using the same version of OpenTTD when playing both 512x512 and 4096x4096 and 8000x8000.
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18:06:52  <TunnelWicht> i also tried mutiple servers
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18:07:10  <TunnelWicht> but yes, we played smaller maps on the same server
18:07:19  <Zuu> It could be that your problems show up when you use that custom build of OpenTTD, but not the one you can download from
18:07:46  <TunnelWicht> i installed it from the archlinux repository
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18:08:41  <Zuu> Standard OpenTTD don't support such large maps, so I was just wondering that you might use a patch pack which could contain any number of changes that we don't know of.
18:08:46  <TunnelWicht> the openttd server is hosted on a windows server 2008 rc2 and the admin used the official binary
18:09:19  <TunnelWicht> oh dear, 2048x2048 is right
18:09:37  <TunnelWicht> (btw:
18:10:49  <TunnelWicht> i thought about the boundary and messed things up :/
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18:11:25  <Alberth> 4M tiles is huge for network, coop does no more than 1M tiles
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18:12:35  <krinn> hi again
18:14:17  * Alberth waves again
18:14:51  <krinn> :)
18:16:10  <TunnelWicht> Alberth: the other players (3 windows, 1 linux) have no network-problems
18:16:19  <TunnelWicht> the 1 other linux-user has debian
18:17:43  <Alberth> Openttd pushes a steady stream of data over a non-standard port. Some ISPs don't like that.
18:18:11  <Alberth> (I never play network, so I really don't know, just giving things that may or may not go wrong)
18:18:13  <TunnelWicht> hmm
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18:33:07  <Eddi|zuHause> *BUUURP*
18:36:07  <TunnelWicht> bless you!
18:38:27  <Eddi|zuHause> can someone explain my headache?
18:39:17  <TunnelWicht> Eddi|zuHause: headache is mostly caused by higher blood-presure in the head
18:40:49  <NGC3982> and in a bigger perspective, fatigue, stress and dehydration
18:42:06  <NGC3982> some smooth music, low lighting, a few glasses of water and a bit of a lie down should be nuf'.
18:43:12  <SpComb> acute deficiency of alcohol in the bloodstream
18:43:35  <NGC3982> :D
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18:44:40  <TunnelWicht> SpComb: alcohol in the bloodstream?
18:44:49  <TunnelWicht> you mean blood in the alcoholstream
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18:47:17  <Eddi|zuHause> on this day of all days...
18:47:35  <Alberth> aka 'stress' :p
18:48:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure that's the one, of all the above explanations :p
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19:51:49  <Zuu> planetmaker: Nice statue, maybe krinn can be fit vertically? :-p
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19:53:33  <Nat_aS> does anybody know anything about the trains in the tropic set?
19:55:56  <planetmaker> Zuu: a bit patience. NewGRF coming soon with both your names ;-)
19:56:06  <planetmaker> 4x zoom for the win :-P
19:56:08  <Zuu> Shiny :-)
19:56:40  <planetmaker> nah, my graphics skills are crappy :S
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20:13:57  <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: the "tropic set" that is like 10 years outdated?
20:18:25  <Nat_aS> yes :P
20:18:36  <Nat_aS> I was wondering about the huge rodesian locomotives
20:18:42  <Nat_aS> what is that bit in front of the engine
20:18:54  <Nat_aS> what's it called, what does it do?
20:19:21  <Nat_aS> I understand the water tank behind the coal car is to increase the range without needing water towers
20:19:26  <Nat_aS> but what is the bit on the front?
20:19:43  <Nat_aS> some sort of overengineered cow catcher in case trees fall on the tracks or something?
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20:21:19  <TWerkhoven2[l]> <-- like that?
20:21:39  <Nat_aS> yes
20:21:48  <Nat_aS> Oh, I didn't realize it was part of the locomotive
20:21:50  <TWerkhoven2[l]>
20:21:55  <TWerkhoven2[l]> its actually the water tank
20:21:59  <TWerkhoven2[l]> the rear one is just coal
20:22:43  <Nat_aS> oh it says there are two engines, with one boiler
20:22:55  <Nat_aS> intresting
20:23:02  <Nat_aS> I love those things, Wish that set was updaited
20:23:08  <TWerkhoven2[l]> one boiler, 2 sets of driven wheels, 4 or more cilinders
20:23:13  <Nat_aS> it lacks a lot of niches, and it's rolling stock is kinda boring
20:24:38  <Nat_aS> so the extra water tank is not for increased range, but because the engine consumes more than normal?
20:24:57  <Nat_aS> and the increased consumption is why north american raillways which had to go farther, didn't use them?
20:27:35  <Nat_aS> >While at the end of the steam locomotive era most conventional steam locomotives had reached their maximum in "critical dimensions", the Garratt still had some way to go, with larger driving wheels, larger boilers and greater output still achievable.
20:28:45  <Nat_aS> Alt history grf with fantastic super steam engines operating at the same time as Diesels and electrics would be cool.
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20:34:55  <Terkhen> good night
20:35:39  <planetmaker> good night, Terkhen
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21:04:44  <Nat_aS> is it possible to build an engine with thee parts, the first and last parts being invisible, and the middle part being longer than the normal .5 tile limit?
21:04:53  <Nat_aS> well longer spritewise,
21:05:16  <Nat_aS> atlernatly, is it possible to have a car's sprite overlap the sprites behind it?
21:05:23  <Nat_aS> instead of the normal layering?
21:05:37  <Eddi|zuHause> difficult/tricky
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21:05:56  <Nat_aS> i just want to see a proper centennial.
21:05:58  <Eddi|zuHause> CETS does that, however
21:06:22  <Nat_aS> Big boys and Garratt engines are easy to do, because they are articulated.
21:07:08  <Nat_aS> but large Disels are a single piece mounted on bogies, which would not be visible, in game terms it would be a single sprite a whole tile long.
21:07:58  <Eddi|zuHause> <- i have written down the basics here
21:08:09  <Eddi|zuHause> but the CETS version is improved over this
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21:13:02  <Nat_aS> I can't load the save there because it has another newgrf in it
21:13:29  <Nat_aS> I disagree with the statement that passinger waggons should be longer though
21:13:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remenber... but it's not relevant
21:13:52  <Eddi|zuHause> it's just a wagon going in circles, you can easily build it yourself
21:13:57  <Nat_aS> Trains and carrages are "Chibi" to use a japanese expression.
21:14:06  <NGC3982> kids?
21:14:21  * NGC3982 seems to have forgotten his anime induced youth.
21:14:22  <Nat_aS> but Some engines should be longer than others
21:14:40  <Nat_aS> Chibi means small, often in a distorted cutesy way
21:14:43  <NGC3982> ah
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21:15:16  <Nat_aS> also known as SD (superdeformed)
21:15:21  <Nat_aS> when applied to giant robots
21:15:29  <Nat_aS> it's a handy art style for video games
21:15:32  <NGC3982> ah
21:15:38  <NGC3982> superdeformed is a nice word.
21:15:46  <Nat_aS> because it makes things conveniant sizes, and keeps important details
21:16:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: there's nothing wrong with short wagons. doesn't mean i have to like it.
21:16:23  <Nat_aS> the Super Robot Wars series of games use animated sprites in this art style
21:16:47  <Nat_aS> anyways, what I'm saying is, Carrages should be .5 tiles for conveniance, but some engines ought to be bigger
21:16:55  <Nat_aS> it adds gameplay depth and looks cool
21:17:06  <Nat_aS> like can you afford to run a train that takes up half your stations
21:17:35  <Nat_aS> it's a good idea if your layout can handle it, but on a small layout you have to consider it along with power speed, and running cost.
21:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: longer wagons don't mean lower capacity for an X tile train
21:20:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: anyway, CETS implements all of those 7 steps (5 is obsolete)
21:20:07  <Nat_aS> I'm talking about longer engines
21:20:36  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. and i'm talking about longer wagons
21:20:38  <xiong> Bosh. Trains already are too big, relative to geography.
21:21:59  <Eddi|zuHause> why is xiong not on my ignorelist, actually?
21:22:11  <Nat_aS> yeah, Trains are big enough compared to the world, but some trains should be bigger compared to other trains
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21:22:43  <xiong> There's a general lack of coherent scale in both time and space; and I don't know where to begin to fix it.
21:23:01  <Nat_aS> and trains being disproportionately wide for there length is an acceptable stylistic choice for a game world made out of 64 wide tiles
21:23:05  <Nat_aS> and shit I have to go to work now
21:23:29  <Nat_aS> fuck it, I'll just ride my bike
21:23:33  <Nat_aS> It's a nice day
21:23:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: CETS can be found here: or here:
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22:01:08  *** Boing [] has joined #openttd
22:01:38  <Boing> boing
22:01:49  <Boing> deutsche hier ? brauche hilfe
22:02:10  *** Pinkbeast [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:02:10  <Boing> bitte
22:03:22  <Boing> Help
22:03:34  <planetmaker> well, what kind of help?
22:03:36  *** kb_gt [] has joined #openttd
22:04:11  <Boing> in the fiscal window. which means there others?
22:05:07  <kb_gt> free online comic book
22:05:11  <Boing> in play
22:05:15  <planetmaker> @kban kb_gt
22:05:17  <Boing> in the play
22:05:27  <Boing> in the game
22:05:39  *** kb_gt [] has quit [autokilled: This host triggered network flood protection. please mail if you feel this is in error, quoting this message. (2012-05-17 22:12:44)]
22:05:53  <planetmaker> ... why did the kban not work?
22:05:55  <Boing> It sports
22:06:06  <planetmaker> @whoami
22:06:06  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: I don't recognize you.
22:06:26  <Boing> : D tut mir hint
22:06:32  <Boing> was?
22:06:35  *** mal2_ [] has joined #openttd
22:06:45  <planetmaker> Boing: you could simply answer to my private message where I asked you in German ;-)
22:06:52  <Boing> This translator is really funny
22:07:09  <__ln__> as fun as a fish in your ear can be
22:09:35  *** Boing [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
22:12:36  *** cyph3r [] has joined #openttd
22:12:39  <cyph3r> My jsme kurva ten hokej vyhráli!
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22:12:50  <cyph3r> Kdo mě neHLTne je zkurvypíčahovnosyn.
22:12:57  <planetmaker> ach...
22:13:01  <planetmaker> English only
22:13:06  <cyph3r> Sorry, wrong room :(
22:13:10  <planetmaker> quite
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