Log for #openttd on 2nd June 2012:
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05:21:25  <HootzMcToke> Hello anyone home?
05:37:16  <NataS> me
05:38:36  <HootzMcToke> Hey
05:39:57  <NataS> sup
05:42:15  <HootzMcToke> not to much just trying setup a CityBuilder server
05:42:25  <NataS> CITY BUILDER
05:42:28  <HootzMcToke> But not really sure where to start
05:42:30  <NataS> explain good sir
05:42:39  <HootzMcToke> Well i see all the city builder server listed
05:42:46  <HootzMcToke> And i enjoy playing on them so do my friends
05:42:58  <HootzMcToke> brb buzzer is going off
05:44:31  <HootzMcToke> Ok back, yea i want to get one going but i'm not sure how they differ from normal ones or if theres any GRF's i need for it
05:44:46  <HootzMcToke> I noticed there were 2 listed on the online search but not really sure how they work
05:45:46  <NataS> oh
05:45:50  <NataS> i don't know
05:45:56  <NataS> I was hoping you could tell me about them
05:45:56  <HootzMcToke> Ah ok
05:45:57  <NataS> :c
05:46:04  <HootzMcToke> Thanks anyways
05:46:11  <HootzMcToke> Ill probably just play with settings
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06:56:37  <Alberth> moin
06:56:38  <chlorine> Hello
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07:14:45  <andythenorth>  bonjour
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08:04:08  <andythenorth> would it be acceptable to decouple BANDIT newgrf compile from BANDIT graphics generation?
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08:05:08  <andythenorth> currently, the requirement to generate the graphics at compile time is blocking any progress on the set
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08:13:05  * FLHerne fails to see why generating graphics at compile time would be necessary or useful
08:13:56  <FLHerne> Surely you'd just end up generating lots of unchanged graphics anyway, or do you have a fancy script to stop it doing that?
08:15:27  <Alberth> andythenorth: what would you gain  if you have a separate generation step?
08:15:36  <Alberth> moin LordAro
08:15:45  <LordAro> hai Alberth :)
08:16:43  <LordAro> you'll be pleased to know that i'm currently trying to reproduce a segfault in freerct
08:17:16  <Alberth> :)
08:17:50  <Alberth> if you're bored, issue 5 looks like one for you :)
08:18:52  <LordAro> i shall have a look - i think i've re-setup my dev environment again :)
08:18:58  <LordAro> (i changed my OS again :) )
08:19:16  <LordAro> shall i append the segfault to issue 4?
08:21:37  <Alberth> depends on the cause
08:22:35  <Alberth> if you are sure is related to not loading RCD files, sure, else make a new issue (merging is always possible ;) )
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08:22:48  <LordAro> i'll make a new one
08:23:07  <Alberth> thanks
08:23:19  <LordAro> nice youtube username btw ;)
08:23:21  <andythenorth> Alberth: the generation fails on the compile farm
08:23:41  <Alberth> andythenorth: I know, but how does a separate step solve that?
08:24:21  <Alberth> LordAro: there are suprisingly many free user names available when you type randomly on the keyboard :)
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08:25:04  <LordAro> You should get an 'official' account, for videos like that
08:26:18  <Alberth> right, just like my gmail name :)
08:27:30  <LordAro> :P
08:27:42  <LordAro> issue is submitted, btw
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08:31:33  <Alberth> LordAro: still have the core dump (or the debug session?
08:31:49  <Alberth> type 'bt' (backtrace) to get a full stack dump
08:33:36  <Alberth> Hmm, the program needs a 'save', 'load', and a 'pause' button :p
08:34:20  <LordAro> ....i'll reproduce :)
08:36:28  <Alberth> do you have a rcd/people_animation.rcd file?
08:37:21  <LordAro> i'm at r363, so i would assume so
08:37:39  <LordAro> however, i don't :)
08:37:58  <Alberth> it's generated with 'make rcd'
08:38:18  <LordAro> that may well be why it's segfaulting :)
08:38:34  <Alberth> yeah, I am trying that atm
08:39:13  <LordAro> i expected 'make' to update both :)
08:39:29  <LordAro> yeah, there's guests now
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08:40:28  <Alberth> I agree, make needs to work better
08:41:03  <strontium> moin y'all
08:42:28  <strontium> eham is quite boring when one has to wait quite long ;)
08:42:29  <Alberth> moin
08:42:29  <LordAro> morning person-who-is-trying-to-one-up-rubidium :)
08:43:30  <Alberth> yeah, I was wondering whether it is safe to have them together
08:44:18  <strontium> rather person-who-only-has-http-internet
08:44:56  <LordAro> Alberth: guests can escape the path when going on up-paths
08:45:01  <strontium> h2o and rb do not mingle nicely
08:45:59  <andythenorth> Alberth: the graphics generation could be treated as equivalent to drawing graphics
08:46:04  <Alberth> LordAro: heh, I have not tested that at all :)
08:46:05  <andythenorth> and the results could be committed to the repo as png
08:46:17  <andythenorth> then nobody else needs the generator, inc. compile farm
08:46:56  <Alberth> andythenorth: but how does that fix the generation step? you still need the magic filenames at some point, no?
08:47:12  <andythenorth> that works fine
08:47:32  <Alberth> interesting :)   how does that happen
08:47:40  <andythenorth> can't remember
08:48:01  <andythenorth> it all works locally
08:48:09  <andythenorth> but not on the CF
08:48:12  <strontium> i will probably time out in a bit when free internet runs out
08:48:46  <Alberth> strontium:  :(
08:48:47  <andythenorth> I can't debug the cf, I only have error messages
08:48:54  <andythenorth> so I can't fix it
08:49:07  <andythenorth> so BANDIT is stuck :)
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08:50:28  <strontium> and i seriously hope my next internet connection is near yyc
08:51:02  <Alberth> andythenorth: I need to get it to run, then I can have a look
08:51:39  <andythenorth> k
08:52:08  <strontium> andy: ammler wanted help with the server, so that might be a way in (iirc)
08:54:58  <strontium> see you at the other side!
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08:58:49  <andythenorth> Alberth: I'm afk for about 2 hrs
08:58:50  <andythenorth> bbl
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09:01:32  <LordAro> brb, restarting
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09:05:27  <planetmaker> oh, strontium was here
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09:06:30  <Wolf01> hello
09:08:49  <Alberth> hello Wolf01, planetmaker
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09:54:44  <planetmaker> hi Alberth , frosch123 :-)
09:58:47  <Ammler> devzone should be up
09:59:04  <Ammler> bundles will need more time, me eating first
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10:16:47  <Terkhen> hello :)
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10:19:13  <Wolf01> hello Terkhen
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11:11:27  <andythenorth> Alberth: hi hi, did you try BANDIT compile yet? :)
11:12:01  <Alberth> not yet, I am afraid
11:15:35  * andythenorth has been thinking about FIRS farms more
11:15:49  <planetmaker> what about them?
11:16:04  <andythenorth> been playing a game, they still don't work for me
11:16:23  <andythenorth> partly I should go back and fix the clustering
11:16:38  <planetmaker> btw, the clustering was ported to NML... might be buggy, but I remember also testing it at some stage
11:16:45  <andythenorth> it misses some things
11:16:57  <andythenorth> it's fine, stuff got missed, it can be fixed
11:17:07  <andythenorth> ;)
11:17:22  <planetmaker> :-) what is it missing?
11:17:29  <andythenorth> map scaling
11:17:47  <andythenorth> I'd need to read the nfo to see if anything else is MIA
11:19:55  <planetmaker> isn't the better approach to go and look at the existing code to see what might be missing?
11:21:19  <andythenorth> I'm not sure what's supposed to be there
11:21:33  <andythenorth> all I remember is the weekend I spent generating maps to test cluster ;)
11:21:39  <andythenorth> not the actual code that solved it
11:21:51  * andythenorth used to have weekends
11:22:16  <planetmaker> he
11:24:51  <Terkhen> :P
11:27:43  <andythenorth> Yexo: hi hi, got a CHIPS nfo question if you have any time
11:28:27  <andythenorth> it's a 4-line question, so I won't just ask :P
11:29:03  <frosch123> @seen yexo
11:29:03  <DorpsGek> frosch123: yexo was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 6 days, 14 hours, 51 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <Yexo> hey Alberth
11:29:15  <Alberth> hi frosch123
11:29:26  <frosch123> sorry albert :)
11:30:04  <Zuu> Alberth + LordAro: So you make FreeRCT from scratch? Eg. there is no RCT code that has been opened up for open source?
11:30:37  <Alberth> Zuu:  try #freerct :p
11:30:42  <LordAro> :D
11:30:55  <Zuu> :-)
11:37:30  <andythenorth> drawing a good copy of the concrete tile from original ttd is hard
11:37:45  * andythenorth may not have sufficient attention span
11:37:47  <Terkhen> ask them to change the original tile license
11:37:51  <andythenorth> :P
11:37:52  <Terkhen> might be simpler :)
11:38:11  * andythenorth is tempted towards a GPL infringement :P
11:38:43  <andythenorth> I have been pretty scrupulous about not stealing original graphics so far :|
11:39:03  <Terkhen> and that has been a great idea IMO :)
11:42:23  <Terkhen> bbl
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12:20:59  <andythenorth> what would cause a reference to a base set tile to fail in a station action 0 layout?
12:21:20  <andythenorth> I am trying to use tile 1420, which works in one context, but not another
12:22:07  <frosch123> you forgot bit 31
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12:22:30  <frosch123> you forgot bit 31, it's inverted compared to industry tiles
12:25:16  <andythenorth> hmm
12:25:21  <andythenorth>
12:25:33  <andythenorth> the second action 0 is pre-existing and works fine
12:25:38  <andythenorth> the first one is new and fails
12:26:10  <andythenorth> is bit 31 is set for second case?  I can't see it
12:33:25  <andythenorth> hmm
12:33:37  <andythenorth> it appears to be taking sprites from the newgrf, not the base set
12:33:47  <andythenorth> perhaps I need to know what GRM is
12:36:05  <frosch123> nope
12:36:27  <frosch123> i think the only usecase left for grm is vehicle recolouring
12:37:44  <andythenorth> it's used in CHIPS
12:37:53  <andythenorth> for the tile I am having trouble with
12:38:36  <frosch123> i do not see any problem
12:38:57  <andythenorth>
12:38:59  <frosch123> is your cb 14 correct?
12:39:12  <andythenorth> ^^ is the template for this tile
12:39:40  <andythenorth> I have THIS_GROUND as \d1420
12:39:54  <andythenorth> but the value is being shifted somehow
12:40:32  <andythenorth> it is \d1420 in the compiled nfo, so it's not a CPP issue
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12:52:10  <Alberth> andythenorth: what 'make' command should work?
12:52:11  <Alberth> trunk seems to break on not having PageTemplateLoader
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12:54:02  <Alberth> andythenorth:
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14:10:36  <andythenorth> Alberth: do you have Chameleon?
14:11:12  <Alberth> yep, afaik
14:13:56  <Alberth>  andythenorth
14:14:43  <andythenorth> can you get the chameleon version
14:15:04  <andythenorth> frosch had similar issue iirc, older chameleon supplied by package manager
14:15:30  <andythenorth> I can't currently test either, I had to install python 2.4 for work purposes
14:15:58  <Eddi|zuHause> you can have multiple python versions installed
14:16:13  <andythenorth> I know, I just have to persuade macports to switch version
14:16:20  <andythenorth> I'm looking up the command :P
14:16:49  <Eddi|zuHause> if you have multiple python versions installed, just call python24 <file> or python27 <file>
14:16:59  <andythenorth> so I'm told :P
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14:17:02  <Eddi|zuHause> no need to "switch" anything
14:17:19  <Alberth> zpt/      version = 3
14:17:19  <Alberth> core/    version = 8
14:17:31  <andythenorth> good luck with 'python26 make'
14:17:51  <andythenorth> or python26
14:18:31  <Alberth> you shouldn't  .sh for .py files :)
14:18:32  <planetmaker> add a variable to those where you can path the python binary
14:18:39  <Eddi|zuHause> "alias python=python24"
14:18:53  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: only works for the current shell
14:19:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
14:19:03  <andythenorth> all of this sounds nice, but is wonderfully impractical
14:20:03  <andythenorth> when you want to run production web frameworks made up of 200k python and C files, you don't do it this way
14:20:08  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not "impractical" if you need it often enough
14:20:50  <andythenorth> well let me put it another way
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14:20:57  <Eddi|zuHause> or: you run these frameworks in a virtual machine
14:21:04  <andythenorth> next time I'll do what your supposed to do, and use a virtualenv
14:21:08  <andythenorth> you're /s
14:21:21  <andythenorth> then the issue would be a non-issue :P
14:21:46  <andythenorth> the failing is mine
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14:23:12  <andythenorth> this ISP is ridiculously poor
14:23:15  <andythenorth> never get BT
14:26:07  <andythenorth> hmm
14:26:08  <LordAro> mine is fine :P
14:26:11  <andythenorth> also my python is fucked
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14:26:51  <andythenorth> setuptools has disappeared for all versions
14:27:05  <andythenorth> Chameleon is installed for one version, but that version can't see it
14:27:16  * andythenorth was having a nap.  Perhaps going back to sleep will cure this
14:27:28  * andythenorth hates daytime naps, they are confusing
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14:29:34  <hackalittlebit> hello, anybody willing to help me pls. I am totally puzzled why TrainCheckIfLineEnds proc is called twice every tick (except slowing down). It was introduced second time in r1198
14:30:46  <hackalittlebit> to me it looks as if truebrain forgot to eliminate the one in TrainLocoHandler
14:32:33  <hackalittlebit> to me it looks as a lot of overhead.
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14:34:00  <hackalittlebit> sorry slowing down I mean handeling broken down veh
14:38:32  <hackalittlebit> taking it out will affect handling of broken down vehicles
14:39:33  <Eddi|zuHause> why do broken down trains need to care about end of line?
14:42:16  <andythenorth> Alberth: I have chameleon 2.8.0
14:43:00  <hackalittlebit> eddi forget about the broken down veh for now, TrainCheckIfLineEnds is called twice and the question is why?
14:43:18  <andythenorth> I also have a non-compiling BANDIT right now, but meh
14:43:18  <hackalittlebit> I don't get it
14:44:35  <hackalittlebit> first time called in TrainLocoHandler second time in TrainController
14:44:54  <Alberth> I have python-chameleon-1.2.12-5.fc15.noarch and chameleon-0.2-3.fc15.noarch, it seems
14:45:20  <andythenorth> did you get them with your package manager?
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14:47:18  <andythenorth> Alberth: what does 'easy_install Chameleon' get you?
14:50:10  <Alberth> easy install trying to be smart, must fix that first :p
14:53:35  <andythenorth> did anyone mention the state of python packaging recently? :P
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14:56:05  <Alberth> find a properly working cross-OS solution, and we talk again :p
14:56:44  <andythenorth> apparently distribute solves all this
14:57:36  <andythenorth>
14:58:48  <Alberth> did anyone mention the ambiguity around chameleons recently??? :D
14:59:21  <andythenorth> :P
15:00:40  <Alberth> he, it's removing python-pyramid-1.0-1.fc16.noarch too??
15:02:10  <andythenorth> maybe
15:02:21  <andythenorth> setuptools is a mysterious beast
15:02:39  <andythenorth> Chameleon is the default templater for pyramid, written by same team
15:04:13  <hackalittlebit> Eddi: Should I report the above question in FS? to give more time to investigate?
15:04:45  <Alberth> hackalittlebit: it is very possible nobody knows
15:05:06  <hackalittlebit> Agreed
15:05:50  <hackalittlebit> truebrain made the change.
15:05:59  <Alberth> asking questions in FS does not seem the right way to me
15:06:08  <hackalittlebit> agreed
15:06:27  <Alberth> and he likely does not know any more
15:06:29  <hackalittlebit> so I will wait :)
15:06:33  <TrueBrain> hackalittlebit: 7 years ago; so what Alberth says still holds :)
15:06:47  <TrueBrain> like asking what you had for breakfast 7 years ago
15:07:00  <hackalittlebit> :)
15:07:00  * andythenorth doesn't remember what he did this morning :P
15:07:09  <hackalittlebit> :P
15:07:17  <Alberth> hackalittlebit: I don't know all the ins and outs of the GUI system any more and that was only a few years back
15:07:47  <hackalittlebit> ok I will investigate more and submit patch
15:08:02  <Alberth> sounds like a good plan to me
15:08:42  <Alberth> andythenorth: ok, it gave me 2.9.1
15:09:01  <andythenorth> if I add 'hotel' station tile to CHIPS is that confusing wrt 'hotel' industry in FIrS?
15:09:06  <andythenorth> Alberth: sounds better
15:09:06  * Alberth makes again :)
15:09:10  <Knogle> Hm, you can't make diamonds a cargogoal in a sub tropic game :/
15:09:21  <andythenorth> Alberth: you'll still get errors, but they should match mine
15:09:55  <planetmaker> andythenorth: there are also 'hotel' houses iirc. It's IMHO clear that it's a difference, so go ahead
15:10:10  <andythenorth> 'Station hotel' ?
15:10:11  <Alberth> andythenorth:  "ImportError: No module named pixa"  ?? :)
15:10:19  <andythenorth> Alberth: you can solve that one :P
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15:11:40  <Alberth> so what should I rename to pixa?
15:12:21  <Alberth> and why doesn't the repo have that? :)
15:12:34  <andythenorth> why doesn't the BANDIT repo have it?
15:13:20  <Alberth> doh!
15:14:02  <andythenorth> incidentally I would much rather provide a buildout that handles all this deps crap
15:14:08  <andythenorth> but I don't know how to write a buildout from scratch
15:16:42  <Alberth> better stay as far as possible away from all build and dependency mess imho, it's way to complicated
15:17:26  <Alberth> ok, I seem to have something along the lines of what the CF does currently
15:19:35  <Alberth> how do you get it to work now?
15:20:50  <andythenorth> I run make in repo root
15:20:54  <andythenorth> and then get failures :P
15:21:56  <andythenorth> as long as you're error is something like
15:21:57  <andythenorth> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `src/pixel_generator/output/trailer-0_2-body_flat-cc1-7_8-cargo_coils-white.png', needed by `bandit.grf'.
15:22:01  <andythenorth> then we're at the same place
15:23:22  <Alberth> you guessed the error exactly right :p
15:23:35  <andythenorth> k
15:23:39  <andythenorth> I'll fix that in a bit
15:23:49  <andythenorth> I had it working before, this is most likely a silly minor issue
15:23:56  * andythenorth is drawing CHIPS right now
15:26:03  <Alberth> k, will have some dinner then
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15:43:06  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- why does this engine have 4 different numbering schemes written on it?
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15:45:07  <telanus1> could be a nubering scheme for each country it travels thru?
15:45:15  <telanus1> numbering*
15:47:06  <andythenorth> also 'railaways' ?
15:47:36  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's a meta-joke :)
15:48:10  <andythenorth> I see
15:48:13  <andythenorth> or not :P
15:48:33  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's a famous german comedian who had a joke where he translated "Englisch fÃŒr fortgeschrittene" [english for advanced] as "English for runaways"
15:48:56  <andythenorth> in soviet russia, jokes translate you
15:55:45  <andythenorth> new CHIPS
15:57:04  <andythenorth> would anyone build it to confirm I didn't screw up?
15:57:04  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it won't be funny if you don't know german very well:
15:57:26  <andythenorth> my German is not good :)
15:57:52  <andythenorth>
15:58:06  <andythenorth> requires nfo tools only
16:00:53  <andythenorth> or I just release :P
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16:01:19  * telanus1 wonders if this colour scheme would work in openTTD:
16:02:49  <andythenorth> should do
16:04:15  <andythenorth> only 3 open tickets for CHIPS
16:04:23  <andythenorth> yay
16:04:26  <Chris_Booth> ooh I like Chips they are tasty
16:05:14  <andythenorth> you could still be in the 1st 10 downloaders in that case ;)
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16:17:37  <Eddi|zuHause> telanus1: why do they put a pole in the middle of the rail? kinda defeats the point, i suppose
16:19:48  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: does that rail look like it's missing clips?
16:20:04  <andythenorth> it has baseplates, but no spring clips afaict
16:20:31  <Eddi|zuHause> a bit hard to decipher on this resolution
16:20:47  <andythenorth> put your eye closer to the screen ;)
16:21:04  <andythenorth> I suppose next I should make this BANDIT thingy work
16:21:10  <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, it looks "better" on the rails behind the train
16:26:08  <telanus1> Eddi|zuHause: They plant poles to "stop" trains from running ot the track
16:26:56  <telanus1> our "very clever" transnet "gurus" think the trains won't use it, it if there is poles in the way
16:27:04  <Eddi|zuHause> if obelix ever visited, he'd say "they are silly, these south africans" :p
16:27:13  <telanus1> :D
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16:28:40  <FLHerne> How long do recessions last? Wiki doesn't say.
16:28:47  <FLHerne> Is it randomisedish?
16:28:53  <Eddi|zuHause> a year-ish, i think
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16:29:59  <FLHerne> Thanks
16:30:15  <FLHerne> My entire network just collapsed because of one :-(
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16:30:34  <Eddi|zuHause> play with stable economy :)
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16:34:46  <FLHerne> I have been, I decided to see what it did
16:35:10  <FLHerne> But then I got backlogs of trains waiting to load, and then those obstructed other trains...
16:35:28  <Zuu> Knogle: Only if a NewGRF makes it so that Diamonds provide a town effect. But year you are right.
16:35:44  <FLHerne> Eventually I ended up with a 150-train jam, all of which were waiting for each other :-(
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16:40:50  <Firartix> Facepolm
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16:47:29  * frosch123 wonders what he is doing
16:47:53  <frosch123> i fail to install a c++ compiler in wheezy
16:47:54  <Alberth> nothing of everything?
16:48:11  <frosch123> maybe i first need to install a proper package manager
16:48:23  <Alberth> that helps :)
16:48:33  <frosch123> the default one seems to be quite a backstep from the squeeze one
16:48:53  <Knogle> Zuu: ew :P
16:49:04  <frosch123> ok, let's try with restarting it
16:49:38  <Zuu> Knogle:  s/But year/But yea/
16:49:50  <Knogle> gotcha
16:55:40  <frosch123> yeah, installing a different package manager did the trick :)
16:56:12  <Alberth> :)
16:56:30  <frosch123> wow, it's even faster
16:56:42  <frosch123> i blamed the vm for being slow before
16:57:00  <frosch123> but apparently the default package manager is crap in every aspect
16:58:40  <Alberth> could be, I have seen such software take forever, while a different implementation is ready in seconds
17:01:32  <andythenorth> farms farms farms
17:02:11  <andythenorth> why do they suck so much?
17:02:11  <Alberth> as long as they manage packages, it should be fine
17:03:21  <andythenorth> maybe farm supplies is a silly idea
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17:04:44  <FLHerne> What's wrong with farm supplies?
17:04:56  * FLHerne is shipping hundreds of them about the place
17:05:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: farms are fine.
17:05:27  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just implement the "stockpiling" of supplies
17:05:48  <andythenorth> problems I have:
17:06:11  <andythenorth> - I never use Fertiliser Plant (never appears in my games)
17:06:11  <andythenorth> - I never use Sugar Mill
17:06:11  <andythenorth> - farms end up surrounded by infrastructure
17:06:36  <FLHerne> Autorefit makes them much easier to deal with, because I can send the supplies back by the livestock/grain/beet etc trains
17:06:36  <frosch123> the latter is completely fine for a transport game
17:06:52  <FLHerne> That removes the need for megainfrastructure
17:07:05  <FLHerne> A bit of stockpiling would be nice though
17:07:47  <andythenorth> - farm production is annoyingly low
17:07:47  <andythenorth> - building infrastructure for farms is annoyingly tedious
17:08:51  <andythenorth> I might be able to collapse some of those issues if a good idea can be found :P
17:09:24  <FLHerne> High clustering on map generation fixes both of those :D
17:09:33  <FLHerne> Just use a few trams into a hub
17:09:57  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if the supplies are stored properly, and the distribuiton is less of an issue, production grows rather fast
17:12:17  *** valhalla1w [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:12:30  <FLHerne> The sole problem with supplies is the 'every month' bit. Some level of averaging would make them perfect :D
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17:18:13  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
17:19:47  <andythenorth> autorefit somewhat relies on supplies being available at the location of the secondary industry
17:20:11  <Eddi|zuHause> that is no problem with cargodist
17:20:17  <Eddi|zuHause> or other transfers
17:20:40  <andythenorth> autorefit is also limited as large vehicles will lift all available supplies
17:20:54  <andythenorth> e.g. in my current game I have 300t wood trains which refit to supplies
17:21:06  <andythenorth> they lift all available supplies in one pass :P
17:21:33  <Eddi|zuHause> make a manual refit, and limit it to one wagon?
17:21:40  <andythenorth> can't do that
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17:21:46  <andythenorth> autorefit is all or nothing
17:22:24  * andythenorth checks that assertion
17:27:53  <andythenorth> yup, all or nothing
17:28:08  <andythenorth> the same gui appears as for partial refit, with no visual hints that it works differently btw
17:28:50  <andythenorth> I assume partial auto-refit is very hard?  Has to deal with possible change of consist?
17:30:31  <FLHerne> Cargodist is the answer to all such problems. How come it hasn't been trunked yet? :-(
17:30:50  <andythenorth> because YACD is the answer instead
17:30:53  <andythenorth> :P
17:31:00  <FLHerne> I've been using it for a year or two now, and I've seen no major bugs/slowdowns
17:31:31  <andythenorth> is it fun?
17:31:42  <FLHerne> YACD is annoying. I want choose where my network goes, not have it dictated by my computer :P
17:31:49  <FLHerne> CDist is, yes
17:31:56  <andythenorth> I am exactly the opposite
17:32:04  <andythenorth> choosing where to route things is a very boring game
17:32:14  <FLHerne> It makes tiny branchlines profitable, for one thing
17:32:48  <FLHerne> "choosing where to route things is a very boring game" Eh? That [i]is[/i] the game, for me :D
17:32:53  <andythenorth> iirc fonso did show a proof of concept of YACDist
17:34:41  <andythenorth> maybe I should make secondary industries for farm cargos locate near to farms
17:35:13  <frosch123> how to install pixa?
17:36:05  <andythenorth> frosch123: have you downloaded it?
17:36:11  <frosch123> i have a checkout
17:37:06  <andythenorth> (iirc): python install
17:37:08  <andythenorth> let me check
17:37:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24320 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
17:37:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:37:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 3 changes by Wowanxm
17:37:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 7 changes by Jogio, planetmaker
17:37:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 1 changes by Parastais
17:37:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 53 changes by RunisLabs
17:37:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: swedish - 4 changes by Joel_A
17:37:37  <frosch123> ok, that needs root (kinda obvious)
17:37:41  <andythenorth> yes
17:37:44  <andythenorth> I hate that it needs root
17:37:50  <frosch123> do i have to install it, to be able to compile bandit?
17:37:56  <andythenorth> yes
17:38:00  <andythenorth> I refused to install nml for weeks because it required root
17:38:09  <Alberth> ?
17:38:19  <frosch123> i never had to install nml
17:38:29  <andythenorth> you have to install PIL though
17:38:31  <frosch123> just made a link to nmlc in /usr/local/bin
17:38:41  <andythenorth> PIL installs to sitewide packages which requires root
17:38:42  <frosch123> pil is a standard library
17:38:56  * andythenorth is irrationally paranoid
17:39:12  <andythenorth> anyway, yes you need pixa for BANDIT
17:39:15  <Alberth> frosch123: I just added the directory with 'pixa' to the PYTHONPATH
17:39:16  <andythenorth> it won't actually compile yet
17:39:24  <andythenorth> hopefully you get the same error as me
17:39:49  <frosch123> Alberth: shall i just define that as an environtment variable?
17:40:02  <Alberth> yes
17:40:22  <andythenorth> I should learn buildout
17:40:27  <andythenorth> then this would all go away
17:40:46  <frosch123> ah, that seems to work
17:40:48  <andythenorth> (one-time) "easy_install"
17:40:52  <Alberth> the env var PYTHONPATH is used by Python as a sequences of root directories to look for further installed modules/packages
17:40:54  <andythenorth> then "bin/buildout"
17:40:58  <andythenorth> would be easy
17:42:31  <andythenorth> could fetch PIL, Chameleon, pixa, etc, maybe even nml
17:43:02  <andythenorth> another day :P
17:45:02  <frosch123> now i miss intermediates/cargo_coils-white-7_8.png
17:45:57  <frosch123> hmm, though it said just before that it would create it
17:47:42  <andythenorth> that's good
17:47:45  <andythenorth> same error
17:47:56  <andythenorth> I'll try fixing it once I've bathed the toddler
17:48:05  <andythenorth> likely just a configuration issue
17:48:19  <andythenorth> feel free to try for yourselves if you like ;)
17:48:39  <andythenorth> so farms
17:48:44  <andythenorth> - mostly leave alone
17:48:53  <andythenorth> - change supplies behaviour
17:49:08  <andythenorth> - clustering is crappy on smaller maps, doesn't work
17:49:13  <andythenorth> - fix clustering
17:49:25  <andythenorth> - make more vehicle sets that can auto-refit
17:49:29  <andythenorth> is my plan :P
17:50:52  <andythenorth> don't auto-refit with HEQS btw, it's explodey
17:53:14  <FLHerne> Perhaps separate vehicles for short/medium/long would cause less refitting bugs?
17:53:31  <FLHerne> Also confuse AIs less... :P
17:53:47  <andythenorth> perhaps
17:53:52  <andythenorth> ask the crowd here
17:54:25  <andythenorth> I don't really care; 'buy menu spam'  ~= 'refitting is annoying'
17:54:41  <andythenorth> I could change it when I recode HEQS
17:54:58  <FLHerne> parameter? :-)
17:55:08  <andythenorth> no, make choices
17:55:18  <andythenorth> parameters are the hobgoblin of tiny minds
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18:26:13  <andythenorth> Alberth frosch123: pull BANDIT
18:26:28  <andythenorth> cargo graphic generation was commented out
18:27:23  <Alberth> :)
18:28:54  <andythenorth> I should try converting it to planetmaker's new makefile
18:29:47  <frosch123> it spams quite a lot of info to the console, but it builds :)
18:30:10  <andythenorth> 'spams' :)
18:30:16  <andythenorth> useful debug output :P
18:30:18  <andythenorth> perhaps not
18:30:37  <andythenorth> I'll suppress some of that now
18:36:14  <andythenorth> done
18:37:42  <andythenorth> if you want to build it much faster than nml, use
18:40:24  <andythenorth> ~19s vs ~54s
18:48:09  <andythenorth> ho
18:48:25  <andythenorth> will try and install the grf to my computer btw :m
18:50:53  <frosch123> he, most trucks are blinking :o
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19:43:47  <Alberth> it's a very flashy set :)
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19:44:53  <andythenorth> I should do something about that
19:45:38  <andythenorth> I have to figure out scale before I draw more trucks :)
19:49:26  <andythenorth> hmm
19:49:32  <andythenorth> when will newgrf docks be done?
19:50:57  <Terkhen> no idea
19:51:55  <andythenorth> docks don't match my new pax station tiles in CHIPS :P
19:53:33  <andythenorth>
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20:27:00  * andythenorth has small epiphany
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20:38:02  * FLHerne wonders what andythenorth's small epiphany was
20:38:30  * Alberth thinks it is not "A GNOME web browser based on the Webkit rendering engine."
20:38:43  <Alberth> good night :)
20:38:49  <FLHerne> 'night
20:39:57  * frosch123 had the same thought abot epiphany like albert :)
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20:53:53  <frosch123> night
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21:01:55  <andythenorth> bye
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21:02:50  <Terkhen> good night
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21:20:22  <xQR> anyone has the 1.2.1 x64 debian package?
21:27:25  <Sacro> not on the website?
21:29:12  <glx> seems dead for me
21:30:18  <xQR> website is down
21:30:21  <xQR> that's why i am asking
21:31:17  <xQR> 504 Gateway Time-out
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21:42:35  <LordAro> Truebrain's broken stuff again
21:44:05  <Zuu> Try if you just want to get your binary.
21:44:57  <Zuu> In the 'releases' folder you'll find 1.2.1
21:49:34  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> just made a link to nmlc in /usr/local/bin <- i use ~/bin for such things
21:51:15  <xQR> thx Zuu
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22:39:09  <LordAro> night all
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