Log for #openttd on 5th June 2012:
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00:28:22  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the actual platform? Or is there some safety measure in place?
00:29:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i was on a different platform, and i have not actually measured the speed. but the platform has warning signs for "fast passing trains"
00:30:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it would be rather stupid to put in switches for 200km/h when they can't actually pass the whole station at that speed
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00:32:10  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: all cases I've seen so far where trains go past a station at about top speed, the platform was not adjacent to the track where the train went fast
00:48:59  <Eddi|zuHause> nope, there are no separate tracks there
00:49:33  <Rubidium> is one platform possibly barely ever used?
00:49:52  <Rubidium> then the trains might be going fast along that one
00:50:21  <Rubidium> though a train passing at 200 km/h might be fast at a few meters distance
00:57:33  <Eddi|zuHause> it seems to be impossible to find an actual timetable on the internet...
00:57:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it's all about connections
00:57:50  <Eddi|zuHause> never "all trains from station X"
00:58:30  <Rubidium>
00:58:58  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't say the platfomrs
00:59:10  <Rubidium> no, it says Gleis ;)
00:59:18  <Eddi|zuHause> ah there
00:59:20  <Rubidium> so far I only saw 1-4
00:59:22  <Eddi|zuHause> it was out of view
00:59:37  <Eddi|zuHause> 3&4 are the "through platforms" afair
01:00:11  <Rubidium> seeing Gleis 5 as well
01:00:11  <Eddi|zuHause> 1&2 are "local" platforms, and there are also 5&6
01:00:50  <Rubidium> no 6 yes, though some busses
01:06:23  <Eddi|zuHause> well, 6 "exists"... doesn't mean it's used regularly :)
01:12:14  <Eddi|zuHause> from the looks of it, the ICEs Leipzig-Berlin pass through, and the (fewer) ICEs Halle-Berlin stop in Bitterfeld
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01:25:25  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you get rid of a black occupant of your bed?
01:51:06  <Mazur> Just shoo hte darn cat.
01:52:01  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: go to the notary and make the black occupant the owner of that bed?
01:52:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: then i have a black owner of a bed. what does that help me?
01:53:11  <Rubidium> it won't be in YOUR bed anymore
01:54:09  <Rubidium> thus negating your statement and thus solving the problem
02:00:31  <Mazur> That's what we call the MicroSoft option.
02:00:55  <Rubidium> MS isn't that creative
02:01:50  <Mazur> No?  They used to be well able to disavow problems and blame others for them.
02:02:35  <Rubidium> that's not finding a creative solution
02:02:47  <Mazur> I agree.
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05:40:21  <NGC3982> Mazur: hehe
05:40:57  <NGC3982> Rubidium: "at speed" (while honking at unattended crossings) is not relevant here i sweden, at least. they honk never the less.
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06:26:15  <andythenorth> bonjour
06:29:00  <__ln__> seulement anglais
06:29:40  <andythenorth> oui
06:29:45  <andythenorth> naturelement
07:00:21  <NGC3982> morning.
07:05:40  <telanus> Morning
07:33:32  <andythenorth> hth do I cross branches when I'm the only one committing to the repo?
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07:34:28  <andythenorth>
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07:52:01  <dihedral> hello
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08:01:13  <planetmaker> hi
08:01:28  <planetmaker> andythenorth: first update to the branch you want to commit to: hg up -C branchname
08:01:41  <planetmaker> (you loose all changes! make a diff, if needed)
08:06:36  <andythenorth> how did I get branches?
08:07:00  <andythenorth> if I commit from somewhere other than repo root, do I get a branch?
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08:51:36  <Ammler> as sson as  your parent isn't tip
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09:00:16  <andythenorth> perhaps because I rolled back?
09:00:55  <Ammler> no
09:01:03  * andythenorth is reading console log to see what happened for those revs
09:01:06  <Ammler> I would guess, you updated to the release to build it
09:01:27  <andythenorth> nope
09:01:51  <andythenorth> I added, rolled back to remove a file I didn't want to add, added a specific path, then modified .hgignore and then committed
09:01:59  <andythenorth> which gave me a branch
09:02:20  <andythenorth> ah
09:02:23  <Ammler> no clue, you are a wizzard with your repos :-)
09:02:25  <andythenorth> prior to that I had a failed push
09:03:02  <andythenorth> [shrug]
09:03:05  <andythenorth> maybe hg is buggy
09:03:08  <andythenorth> or maybe I am buggy
09:03:10  <Ammler> nono
09:03:22  <Ammler> only you :-P
09:03:33  <Ammler> yes
09:03:37  <andythenorth> I could paste my console if you wish :P
09:03:44  <andythenorth> feel free to try and debug :P
09:03:57  <andythenorth> perhaps you have better things to do ;)
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09:10:31  <Ammler> he, you insist in not having done human failure?
09:11:32  <andythenorth> not as far as I can see
09:11:52  <andythenorth> I know most of the bad things to do now :P
09:13:21  <andythenorth> anyway, it's fixed with a merge :)
09:13:24  <Ammler> you have something like a graphiclog?
09:13:47  <Ammler> like the alias I once posted, it is very helpful for such things
09:13:52  <andythenorth> glog?
09:14:17  <Ammler> also of course, always pull before commit
09:14:53  <andythenorth> not pulling is probably the trigger for the issue this time
09:15:01  <Ammler> well, I made a alias "slog" to have that in shotview
09:15:16  <andythenorth> somehow the remote repo was at r533 while my local repo was at r532
09:15:35  <Ammler> and overall, you made no mistake, the repo is completely fine, merging is part of dedicated vcs
09:15:39  <andythenorth>
09:16:00  <Ammler> that is also the reason, you can merge with hg, while on svn this is upper complicated
09:18:39  <Ammler>
09:19:01  <Ammler> that is from my alias
09:19:20  <Ammler> slog = glog -l10 --template "{branch}\t{rev}:{node|short}|{author|person} {desc|firstline}\n"
09:19:52  <andythenorth> k thanks
09:35:28  <andythenorth> heh
09:35:43  <andythenorth> due to the compression of / and \ views, small trucks look very silly :)
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10:08:57  <Eddi|zuHause> but... shouldn't "not pulling" give you an error, instead of silently creating a branch?
10:09:56  <Eddi|zuHause> (i mean: you notice this on push)
10:11:36  * NGC3982 just made some openttd music
10:11:49  <NGC3982> i noticed the gameplay needs a jazzy tune to play along
10:12:02  <NGC3982> i guess i should make a forum post or something
10:12:08  <NGC3982> never actually been to the forums :E
10:19:56  <Eddi|zuHause> put it in the openmsx thread
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10:27:15  <NGC3982> well, my music is not midi
10:27:26  <NGC3982> and not really intended to replace anything that's already there.
10:27:55  <NGC3982> oh, wait, according to the wiki, it's all about new music too
10:27:58  <NGC3982> ill try it. :)
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10:32:55  <drac_boy> hi
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11:31:58  <drac_boy> hi andythenorth hows FIRS going so far?
11:32:20  <andythenorth> over the last 3.5 years?
11:32:23  <andythenorth> or just recently?
11:32:41  <drac_boy> recently :)
11:33:01  <andythenorth> it's on schedule ;)
11:35:43  <drac_boy> heh :p
11:37:54  <frosch123> andythenorth: it's a bit weird to list a cargolabel in the specs which is not present in a final grf
11:38:14  <frosch123> why don't you use something like "----" to make sure to use something that noone else uses?
11:43:04  <andythenorth> frosch123: I could use "____" :P
11:43:08  <andythenorth> nml won't accept ----
11:43:16  <andythenorth> :)
11:43:25  <andythenorth> I don't mind adjusting it
11:43:32  <frosch123> nml? how does that label make it into nml?
11:43:41  <andythenorth> it's used as an identifier in switches
11:43:48  <andythenorth> [local issue to my code]
11:43:59  <frosch123> i thought the label is something in the intermediate processing, but not in the final grf
11:44:31  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: nml should accept "----" (with quotes)
11:45:25  <andythenorth> oh
11:45:28  <andythenorth> hmm
11:45:56  <andythenorth> quotes inside the identifier?
11:46:17  <Eddi|zuHause> if it's composed into a larger identifier, then not
11:46:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i meant any place that accepts a cargo label
11:46:50  <andythenorth> :)
11:47:15  <andythenorth> this is a piece of pure madness I dreamt up for use in switches
11:47:24  <andythenorth> probably best not discussed :P
11:48:20  <andythenorth> works though
11:48:40  * andythenorth wonders if **** will work
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11:50:44  <andythenorth> 4/8 truck with 2/8 long body definitely looks odd
11:50:53  <andythenorth> because the body is 3/8 wide :P
11:51:20  <andythenorth> bigger trucks?
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12:09:37  <andythenorth> hmm
12:09:47  <andythenorth> pikka's 5t wagons are 2/8 long :|
12:09:58  <andythenorth> this 5t truck should also have a 2/8 body
12:12:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i would not worry too much about such things
12:13:04  <Eddi|zuHause> 2/8 sounds a little too short, imho
12:16:27  <andythenorth>
12:16:37  <andythenorth> I could make the body not as high
12:16:42  <andythenorth> and I could use a 1/8 long cab
12:16:49  <andythenorth> which might make the overall proportion appear better
12:18:51  <andythenorth> I prefer this 3/8 body though
12:18:52  <andythenorth>
12:19:04  <andythenorth> looks more like 10t capacity than 5t :P
12:19:17  <andythenorth> maybe 5t trucks are just smaller overall, as in RL :P
12:19:31  <andythenorth> this is the cab from a full size class 8 truck
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12:29:49  <andythenorth> hmm
12:30:21  <andythenorth> Pikka has truck I use in HEQS with 2t capacity
12:30:37  <andythenorth> which is actually in scale with those 3/8 trucks if they were ~5t
12:30:40  <andythenorth> interestink
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12:36:42  <NGC3982> :-o
12:45:54  * telanus1 like these types of trucks:
12:46:44  <andythenorth> telanus1: if I can be bothered to figure out the compositing, there'll be trucks like that
12:46:48  <andythenorth> that's a B-trailer
12:47:04  <andythenorth> so that would be 7/8 long, with a 5/8 body
12:47:16  <andythenorth> followed by a standard A-trailer
12:47:32  <andythenorth> I won't bother doing the lift axles at TTD-scale :P
12:47:51  <andythenorth> that's more of an extra-zoom thing :P
12:47:58  <telanus1> here we call those Interlink trucks
12:48:49  * andythenorth googles
12:49:05  <andythenorth>
12:54:17  <Hazzard> ...
12:55:22  <andythenorth> that's a big grf
12:55:38  <andythenorth> or you've downloaded the 237KiB very many times :P
12:56:36  <Hazzard> for some reason I don't think that is supposed to happen
12:57:33  <Belugas> hello
13:02:03  <telanus1> Andythenorth: you could try this:
13:02:42  <telanus1> Fuel and livestock dual-purpose tanker
13:03:19  <andythenorth> telanus1: looks well engineered
13:05:10  <Hazzard> lol
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13:11:11  <V453000> that is not a cow.
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13:26:22  <NGC3982> are you sure?
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13:34:11  <NGC3982> Hazzard: hah.
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13:35:10  <NGC3982> Hazzard: did it actually download 3GB?
13:37:15  <Hazzard> no
13:37:55  <Hazzard> NGC3982: It's happened to me a couple times
13:38:27  <NGC3982> ah, i see.
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14:37:03  <Aladdin> hello
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15:07:25  <kopf> heyyo, is there any way of fixing the slow mouse movement in openttd on Windows apart from running the game full screen?
15:08:45  <Eddi|zuHause> what slow mouse movement?
15:11:30  <kopf> the mouse cursor moves as if it's bogged down
15:11:44  <kopf> in full screen, it moves exactly as fast as the normal windows mouse cursor
15:12:32  <Eddi|zuHause> also when you pause the game?
15:14:05  <kopf> haven't tried that, but yes, I presume so, as it's present even on the main menu
15:14:46  <Eddi|zuHause> did you try updating to 1.2.1?
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15:15:02  <kopf> not yet, no. I'm on 1.2.0 at the moment, and will do later on
15:15:15  <kopf> I thought this was a well-known issue, though, since this exists -
15:15:41  <kopf> (of course this fix only works for *nix systems)
15:17:47  <Eddi|zuHause> that FAQ entry is probably totally unrelated
15:18:03  <Eddi|zuHause> there were some general fixes with sluggish game behaviour in 1.2.1
15:18:09  <Eddi|zuHause> so you should definitely try that
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15:18:44  <andythenorth> NewShips on bananas :O
15:19:53  * andythenorth suspects that's naughty
15:23:07  <kopf> Eddi|zuHause: ok will do
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16:14:35  <andythenorth> meh
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16:14:56  <andythenorth> articulated RVs have severe overlap issues in depot view
16:14:59  <andythenorth> wonder why that is :P
16:15:20  <andythenorth> heqs doesn't do it
16:16:10  <andythenorth> ho, BANDIT trucks also do it whilst driving
16:16:17  <andythenorth> offsets must be wrong :P
16:19:36  <andythenorth> how droll
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16:31:17  <andythenorth> ctl-b - the bounding boxes for vehicles don't adjust to actual size?
16:32:14  <andythenorth> for buildings they somewhat do
16:37:23  <Eddi|zuHause> in 1.2.x, they adjust to vehicle length
16:37:37  <Eddi|zuHause> before they were constant size
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16:39:04  <Eddi|zuHause> width and height are still constant
16:40:54  <kopf> Eddi|zuHause: Hi, installed 1.2.1 there, and the mouse movement problem persists
16:41:17  <andythenorth> where did I get these nml spritesheets from? :P
16:41:21  <andythenorth> I can't find them in the wiki
16:41:31  <Eddi|zuHause> pikka?
16:41:36  <andythenorth> nah
16:41:41  <andythenorth> pikka's are different :)
16:41:43  <Eddi|zuHause> kopf: sorry, then i'm out of ideas
16:41:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: opengfx-whatever?
16:41:57  <andythenorth> maybe
16:42:07  <andythenorth> I think they're in the tutorial somewhere, can't find them :P
16:42:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: or foobar?
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16:42:12  <andythenorth> yup, they're foobar's
16:42:21  <andythenorth> not convinced the offsets work
16:43:08  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: use mine, and leave out the slanted views :)
16:43:33  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make sure you use the 32px templates, not the 28px ones
16:43:53  <Eddi|zuHause> (those two lines are unrelated)
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16:44:35  <andythenorth> I'm now somewhat committed to the ones I have
16:44:40  <andythenorth> due to the way pixel generation works :P
16:44:48  <andythenorth> so I'll fix the offsets for those :)
16:45:12  <andythenorth> I could add another layer of abstraction of course
16:45:29  <andythenorth> but I feel like I have enough.  I'll have to start paying tax on them if I add another
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16:46:07  <andythenorth> :)
16:46:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you could at least look at my offsets and compare
16:46:51  <Eddi|zuHause> note that my vehicles overlap by 1 pixel
16:47:11  <andythenorth> good idea
16:47:56  <kopf> Also, I put all my .gm files from transport tycoon deluxe in a new directory called "gm" in c:\program files\openttd, but I can't see any of the original transport tycoon music in the jukebox
16:48:01  <kopf> What else do I need to do?
16:48:22  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so template_3_8bpp_normal for 3/8 length?
16:48:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:48:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the offsets you can find only in the generated nml/nfo
16:49:11  <Eddi|zuHause> they are preprocessed by some convoluted formulas which are probably evil :)
16:50:36  <Eddi|zuHause> kopf: in game settings, you need to select the music set
16:50:41  <kopf> aha
16:50:42  <kopf> thanks :)
16:51:33  <kopf> oh fuck yes
16:51:36  <kopf> nostalgia overload
16:58:26  <andythenorth> 12.1MB of nfo :P
17:01:16  <Terkhen> hello
17:01:40  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you know a vehicle of the desired length, you can find the offets by searching for "<comp>_<ident>_0set"
17:03:21  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: or generally search for "_0set" until you find a template of the right length
17:03:34  <andythenorth> found some
17:03:44  <andythenorth> offsets are quite different to the ones I have
17:03:47  <andythenorth> trains vs. RVs?
17:03:55  <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't be
17:04:09  <Eddi|zuHause> but my sprites have a larger margin on the top
17:04:14  <andythenorth> let's try yours
17:04:36  <Eddi|zuHause> so if you reduce sprite height, you need to reduce the offset by the same amount
17:05:37  <Eddi|zuHause> make sure you don't use the slice_set, gui_set or left/right_sets
17:06:07  *** Nat_AFK is now known as Nat_aS
17:06:25  <Eddi|zuHause> or actually, the 0gui_set may be the best one
17:06:39  <Eddi|zuHause> but not 1gui_set or 2gui_set
17:11:15  <andythenorth> your crop is quite a lot larger than mine :)
17:11:52  * andythenorth figures out how to do this
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17:37:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24326 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
17:37:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:37:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 11 changes by telanus
17:37:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 7 changes by habell
17:37:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 5 changes by Jogio
17:37:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: greek - 183 changes by kyrm
17:37:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 4 changes by RunisLabs
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17:37:56  <Wolf01> hello
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17:40:12  <Wolf01> hi andy
17:40:38  <Zuu> When a script run out of its 10 000 oopcodes, it is suspended. What should we call the state/action when a script has its execution paused? Eg. what will happen if you pause the execution of a game script.
17:40:42  <andythenorth> lo Wolf01
17:41:09  <Zuu> If suspended was not already taken, I would use that word.
17:41:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: why can't it both be called "suspended"?
17:41:59  <Zuu> because that would be confusing?
17:42:13  <Eddi|zuHause> if it's functionally the same thing, just triggered by different events?
17:43:10  <andythenorth> semantically they're different?
17:43:27  <andythenorth> Zuu: why not 'paused' ?
17:43:49  <Zuu> A script is suspended short-term at every tick. What I try to achive is that (game) scripts can be suspended over longer time. The AI Debug window has a (hidden) feature to suspend an AI and then pause the game if a break condition is met. This 'hack' doen't work with game scripts anymore as they are executed also when the game is paused.
17:44:59  <Zuu> Maybe paused will do untill I got a patch ready for review. A rename can happen then if the devs (eg. yexo) disagrees :-)
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17:56:15  * andythenorth really hates setting up offsets :)
17:57:59  <Knogle> Zuu: ever tried using regex in GS?
17:58:06  <Zuu> No
17:58:11  <Knogle> ok
17:58:19  <Zuu> Then you would probably first need to implement regex.
17:58:56  <Knogle> probably
17:59:01  <Zuu> Several af the "built in" libraries of standard Squirrel is not available in OpenTTD.
17:59:11  <Knogle> aw :|
17:59:27  <Zuu> Some math functions have been added though.
17:59:39  <Zuu> But at the beginning, one had to imlement those as well. :-)
18:00:19  <Knogle> :)
18:01:25  <Knogle> I wish I knew how, could be really useful.
18:03:09  <Eddi|zuHause> regex are really easy to program...
18:03:42  <Eddi|zuHause> (as are most math functions)
18:04:07  * Knogle shrugs
18:04:26  * NGC3982 offers free massage.
18:04:54  <Knogle> hehe
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18:16:49  <frosch123> hmm, why does the autoreplace gui distinguish between railtypes?
18:18:58  <andythenorth> hysterical...raisins?
18:18:59  <andythenorth> meh
18:19:04  <andythenorth> not convinced about these offsets
18:19:24  <andythenorth> moving the vehicle to the front of the bounding box causes unpleasant things to happen
18:19:48  <andythenorth> for reduced-length vehicles, is it correct to position the sprite at the front of the bounding box?
18:20:07  <andythenorth> in other sets I have centred vehicles
18:20:25  <frosch123> i think for >= 1 a vehicle should always fill a bb from front to back
18:20:37  <andythenorth> that's how the nml offsets I have do it
18:20:47  <frosch123> if you have space between vehicles, then likely centering is the best
18:20:59  <frosch123> the center of the bb is the turning point for >= 1.2
18:21:05  <andythenorth> filling from front causes the rotation point to be off center
18:21:11  <frosch123> (also >= 1.2 above)
18:21:16  <andythenorth> which makes for horrible rotation effects
18:22:32  <andythenorth> would be handy if newgrf debug showed vehicle length
18:24:27  <andythenorth> also wrt bounding boxes (ctrl-b view) "Eddi|zuHause: in 1.2.x, they adjust to vehicle length" <- not for me in ottd tip
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18:39:13  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: for centered vehicles, there are more variations needed for different vehicle lengths
18:40:19  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: putting the vehicles on the border means i can use the same calculation for all lengths
18:41:34  <andythenorth> so how do you handle the horrible rotation effect?
18:41:44  <andythenorth> I guess you have rotation handled differently :P
18:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause> what rotation effect?
18:42:12  <andythenorth> if the sprite doesn't rotate about the centre point it's visually quite odd
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18:42:23  <andythenorth> as though it's on the end of a pendulum
18:42:58  <Eddi|zuHause> the vehicle always turns around its center point. the sprite offsets are irrelevant for that
18:43:04  <andythenorth> ?
18:43:31  <andythenorth> must be a terminology difference
18:43:47  <Eddi|zuHause> the center of the bounding box is the turning point
18:44:00  <andythenorth> but we're not centering the graphics in the bounding box....?
18:44:10  <andythenorth> I do in other sets, but it seems to not be the nml way
18:44:23  <Eddi|zuHause> this has nothing to do with nml
18:44:30  <andythenorth> nml / foobar templates /s
18:45:28  <Eddi|zuHause> but we already started from "foobars offsets are wrong"... you're going in circles
18:46:20  <andythenorth> indeed
18:46:32  <andythenorth> my truck is also going in circles around a 3x3 loop of road :P
18:47:28  <andythenorth> I'll centre them
18:47:31  <Eddi|zuHause> code my template into a truck, and see if it turns better?
18:47:57  <andythenorth> it's so different that I'd effectively be reworking it :)
18:48:26  <andythenorth> I could set up a dummy grf with one of your spritesheets though
18:50:03  <Zuu> Hmm, forgetting to initalize is_paused as false proved that my is_paused flag work :-)
18:50:55  * Zuu is not really sure how to handle (auto) save if one or more scripts are paused
18:51:46  <Zuu> One option is to still call the Save() function even if it is paused. The other option is to reject (auto) save.
18:52:32  <Zuu> A third (bad) option is to still save the game, but not call Save() of the AI/script which will result in a broken save.
18:53:22  <Zuu> Currently I think that I will ignore that the script is paused and just call Save during save.
18:53:26  <Eddi|zuHause> only the first option can be sane
18:54:49  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I've mashed your offsets + graphics into BANDIT ;)
18:55:36  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and does it move better?
18:55:57  <andythenorth> YMMV, but for 3/8 view, it looks like the rotation point is about 8px behind the sprite....which it is :)
18:56:02  <Knogle> Hmm... I have GSText(GSText.STR_HQCITY2, company) and in lang/english.txt is "STR_HQCITY2 :{COMPANY} Test" Any idea why it only returns "Test" ?
18:56:36  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: was the bounding box thing not ported to road vehicles?
18:56:49  <andythenorth> non-centered graphics causes effects like the vehicle overlapping the opposite carriageway in corners
18:57:19  * andythenorth tests CETS trains
18:57:23  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you sure you set the vehicle length correctly?
18:57:24  <frosch123> oh, good question
18:57:35  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: not sure
18:57:38  <andythenorth> I don't know how to tell
18:57:45  <andythenorth> newgrf debug doesn't have it
18:58:04  <andythenorth> I might have to go read nml again ;)
18:58:17  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: need "length: 3" in the properties
18:58:27  <andythenorth> I'm using the cb, but I have the right lengths
18:58:35  <andythenorth> I'm wondering if there's an nml bug, I recall that length was being changed at some point
18:58:43  <andythenorth> nml bugs are not unknown :)
18:58:56  * andythenorth tries the prop rather than cb
18:59:19  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: can also put "length: 3" in the callbacks :p
18:59:27  <andythenorth> yup
18:59:39  <frosch123> at least the bb of rv is not affected by length
19:00:15  <andythenorth> nml length prop is behaving same as length cb
19:00:22  <andythenorth> so it either works completely, or not at all
19:00:25  <frosch123> so, for rv it is still the same
19:00:34  <andythenorth> I suspect nml length works, as trailers are changing position
19:01:10  <Eddi|zuHause> right
19:02:24  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I tested, the CETS offsets look absolutely perfect for trains
19:02:36  <andythenorth> and the bb does indeed change for trains
19:02:45  <andythenorth> but you knew that :P
19:03:52  <Eddi|zuHause> then you must port the train code to roadvehicles :p
19:04:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder whether there was any reason not to do this
19:04:25  <andythenorth> nobody complained loudly? :0
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19:09:10  <frosch123> andythenorth: just take a look at UpdateDeltaXY and enjoy it :p
19:09:27  <andythenorth> from your tone, I suspect I may not :P
19:10:00  <frosch123> lots of bit shifting, so for a nfo guy it should be fine :p
19:10:00  <Zuu> Knogle: Do you have "Test" in some string?
19:10:10  <andythenorth> frosch123: I'm nml now
19:10:22  <andythenorth> I've deleted all bit shifting from my brain
19:10:36  <Zuu> Oh, sorry now I see it's in your english.txt
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19:10:38  <frosch123> :)
19:11:00  <Zuu> Still, I wonder why it doesn't output the space before "Test".
19:11:20  <Knogle> it might, its not easy to tell on the sign
19:12:43  * andythenorth wonders where vehicle bb code is :P
19:12:51  * andythenorth will learn how to grep after dinner
19:13:17  <Zuu> Knogle: is your "company" variable a company id?
19:14:06  <Knogle> no, its "Knogle Transport"
19:14:14  <Zuu> It should be the ID of that company.
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19:14:24  <Zuu> OpenTTD will get the name for you.
19:14:43  <Zuu> that is why it says {COMPANY} and not eg. {STRING}.
19:15:02  <Knogle> so if I use {STRING} it'll work with "Knogle Transport"
19:15:04  <Knogle> ?
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19:19:28  <Knogle> Guess not, just tested it, same result
19:27:05  <Zuu> I don't know if {STRING} actually works.
19:27:22  <Zuu> I think it is ment for nested GSText.STR_XYZ if I remember correctly.
19:28:13  <Knogle> Doesn't work for me.
19:28:40  <Zuu> The format is explained here:
19:28:52  <Zuu> Its the same format as shared with the lang files of OpenTTD itself.
19:29:34  <Zuu> {RAW_STRING} might be what you look for.
19:29:50  <Zuu> But I'm not sure exactly.
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19:30:15  <Zuu> If you know the ID of the company, you should pass that along.
19:30:35  <Knogle> I don't
19:30:39  <Zuu> If you need to make a debug sign of a string, just make the debug sign in english.
19:31:10  <Zuu> You could loop over all companies until you find the company with the name you got.
19:31:41  <andythenorth> frosch123: so am I correct to be looking at l390 in roadveh_cmd.cpp
19:31:43  <Zuu> Anyway if you store the human readable name of a company in a sign, that is prone to fail if anyone renames his company.
19:32:26  <Knogle> How would I get a list of all companies?
19:32:27  <Knogle> :P
19:32:40  <andythenorth> what is this a, b, c, d?  x, y deltas for flat and sloped tiles?
19:32:47  <andythenorth> per direction?
19:33:40  <Zuu> Knogle: Loop from COMPANY_FIRST to COMPANY_LAST and check if the company is valid.
19:34:12  <Zuu> eg. use ResolveCompanyID and check if the result is COMPANY_INVALID.
19:34:30  <Zuu> You can see how this work in for example TransportGoals GS.
19:34:47  <Knogle> I don't get it, there isn't exactly any GSCompanyList to loop through.
19:35:25  <Knogle> I'll have a look.
19:36:24  <Knogle> ah
19:36:33  <Knogle> I get it now, thanks alot Zuu.
19:37:19  <Zuu> You could implement your own GSCompanyList if you wish in pure squirrel.
19:37:49  <Knogle> I guess so :)
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19:41:09  <andythenorth> UpdateDeltaXY is quite different for trains :P
19:41:47  <frosch123> for rv, you have a table at the top
19:41:52  <frosch123> it is read at the bottom
19:42:25  <frosch123> the reading at the bottom is basically in the reverse order of the stuff at the top
19:42:50  <frosch123> so, ysize, xsize, yoffset, xoffset
19:42:53  <andythenorth> oh, so a c, d are the extents
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19:43:26  <chlorine> Hello
19:43:52  <andythenorth> train UpdateDeltaXY doesn't look very specific to trains, apart from the table
19:43:58  <andythenorth> do I miss something :P
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19:52:18  <andythenorth> frosch123: what effect will changing UpdateDeltaXY have on existing RV grfs?
19:53:17  <frosch123> it will misalign everything, esp in corners
19:53:25  <frosch123> noone knows how corners work
19:53:44  <frosch123> since noone manager to figure out the length of roadvehicles in the past 2 years
19:53:57  <andythenorth> corners are horrible
19:54:14  <andythenorth> depending on drive side, it's pretty much impossible to align vehicles nicely for corners :P
19:54:15  <frosch123> though likely inner and outer corners are so different, that it will always be wrong
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19:55:46  <michi_cc> Aditionally you'd have to figure out the analogue to the r23290 changes in saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp
19:56:19  <andythenorth> meh
19:56:36  <andythenorth> so I can just setup BANDIT to use sane offsets, instead of relying on ottd
19:56:43  <andythenorth> it's only 128 values to set
19:57:13  <andythenorth> I probably don't need 1/8 and 2/8 length, so only 96 ;)
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20:01:35  <andythenorth> if RV bounding boxes are changed in ottd, that breaks BANDIT?
20:02:59  *** Nat_AFK is now known as Nat_aS
20:03:16  <frosch123> there is no benefit in changing the bb for rv
20:03:19  <Knogle> Zuu: It works now, thanks alot, once again.. ;)
20:03:28  <Knogle> a lot*
20:05:22  <andythenorth> frosch123: the only case I have is bounding boxes as drawn with ctrl-b - if these were vehicle length, that would be helpful
20:05:29  <andythenorth> other than that, no benefit afaict
20:05:38  <andythenorth> that may be a separate case anyway?
20:07:53  <frosch123> ah, yes, you might try shortening the boxes without chaning the offset
20:08:17  <frosch123> you need to add x/y_bb_offs to compensate that
20:09:17  <andythenorth> ok
20:10:00  <andythenorth> I won't try to patch this right now, I have about 40 mins of holiday time left
20:10:01  <andythenorth> ;)
20:10:15  <andythenorth> then who knows when I next have time for ottd
20:11:09  <frosch123> weird holidays that end tuesday at 22:00
20:11:20  <frosch123> do you have a deadline tomorrow at 07:00 ?
20:12:24  <andythenorth> I go to sleep, hopefully at 22:00
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20:16:05  <supermop> jubilee holiday
20:18:01  <andythenorth> yup
20:18:41  <Rubidium> doesn't look like they are observing that here
20:20:16  <frosch123> hmm, i cannot remember, are you in us or in canada or something inbetween?
20:20:36  <Rubidium> though her face is on the coins
20:20:58  <frosch123> an up-to-date face?
20:21:30  <Rubidium> up-to-date as in the current queen
20:21:30  <andythenorth>
20:21:52  <andythenorth> both vehicles appear to be centered, best as I can tell
20:22:01  <andythenorth> the length on the lead vehicle is 2/8
20:22:10  <andythenorth> which should pull the trailer in close to the cab, but not overlapping it
20:22:27  <andythenorth> but of course...that's not how it works :)
20:22:57  <andythenorth> so I'm going to need to calculate vehicle lengths a bit more magically
20:23:04  <andythenorth> rather than just based on the length of pixels :P
20:23:48  <andythenorth> default RVs are 32px?
20:23:53  <frosch123> oh, i detect serious flaws in my geography education
20:24:46  <frosch123> why does canada belong to the commonwealth? they do not even have a unionjack in their flag?
20:25:18  <Rubidium> frosch123: you probably haven't zoomed in deeply enough in the reflection in the flag
20:26:31  <andythenorth> jamaica doesn't have a union jack either ;)
20:26:38  <andythenorth> nor india, nor zimbabwe
20:27:18  <michi_cc> Interestingly some of the provincial flags have it (BC, Ontario and something I forgot)
20:28:16  <Rubidium> I reckon the one you forgot ain't Quebec
20:28:47  <andythenorth> so if I align vehicles in the center of the bb
20:29:13  <CornishPasty> frosch123: why should it?
20:29:22  <andythenorth> length needs to be: 32px - (sprite length / 2)
20:30:12  <andythenorth> so a 28px vehicle remains at length 8
20:30:30  <andythenorth> a 24px vehicle is length 7, rather than 6
20:31:36  <frosch123> CornishPasty: i thought every commonwealth country would have it, and only might have removed it after leaving
20:31:55  <andythenorth> so a truck with a 2/8 cab needs to use length....?
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20:33:00  <andythenorth> result depends on both cab length, and total vehicle length
20:33:01  <frosch123> andythenorth: the length of the rv is exactly that questiojn which noone answered in the last 2 yearsa
20:33:07  <frosch123> it's still 28 in depots
20:33:07  <CornishPasty> frosch123: nah, there's no rules on it tbh
20:33:25  <CornishPasty> Although my country isn't in the commonwealth, and its flag *IS* the Union Flag
20:33:34  <andythenorth> frosch123: that somewhat explains the problems with RVs in depots :P
20:33:39  <andythenorth> I think vehicles are 32px
20:35:50  <frosch123> CornishPasty: which country is that?
20:35:58  <andythenorth> hmm
20:36:01  <CornishPasty> frosch123: Guess? :P
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20:36:15  <andythenorth> so a 4/8 truck with a 2/8 cab needs to use 4/8 length
20:36:16  <CornishPasty> frosch123:
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20:37:44  <andythenorth> but a 5/8 truck with a 2/8 cab also needs to use 4/8 length
20:38:11  <andythenorth> but a 4/8 truck with a 1/8 cab needs to use 3/8 length
20:38:23  <andythenorth> this is going to be fun to write code for :P
20:38:42  * andythenorth ponders a lookup table
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20:40:08  <frosch123> CornishPasty: <- related to that?
20:40:27  <Alberth> andythenorth: sounds like a good idea to me, there are not so many combinations
20:40:47  <andythenorth> one more complication :)
20:40:54  <andythenorth> to add to the existing complications :)
20:41:15  <frosch123> so, what makes the difference between canada/australia with queen, and india/south africa without queen?
20:41:51  <andythenorth> intertia?
20:41:55  <andythenorth> inertia /s
20:42:14  <Alberth> good night all
20:42:15  <CornishPasty> frosch123: Nah, I'm from England, our Queen is the head of state, and the head of the commonwealth, but we are not in the commonwealth... :/
20:42:25  <CornishPasty> We left it to join Europe... *derp*
20:42:34  <andythenorth> you're Cornish, you have your own country
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20:42:51  <CornishPasty> andythenorth: I'm not, I just like CornishPasties
20:43:10  <andythenorth> :P
20:43:14  <frosch123> yeah, i also addressed "cornish" to england :s but i could not imagine it not being part of the commonwealth :o
20:44:26  <andythenorth> meh, this truck business is tedious :P
20:45:43  <Zuu> Knogle: Whenever FS#5206 or a similar fix have been accepted, the break on log feature will be fixed for Game Scripts.
20:45:57  <frosch123> ah "commonwealth realm" is the term here
20:46:19  <Zuu> If I feel kind, I might even implement [AI/GS]Controller.BreakPoint() or similar. :-)
20:47:10  <Zuu> as FS#5206 provides the framework for a such method to be fairly easy to implement.
20:50:32  <Knogle> nice
20:51:05  * Rubidium accepts FS#5206 ;)
20:51:06  <Zuu> GSController::BreakPoint would just need to call Game::Pause() and invalidate the AI/GS debug window.
20:51:21  <Rubidium> there, the problem is solved ;)
20:51:54  <Rubidium> although the first chunk of ai_gui.cpp looks fishy
20:52:19  <Zuu> hmm, maybe I should have written committed instead of "accepted" to be super clear. :-)
20:52:55  <Zuu> Rubidium: The removed comments are for Suspend while the new comments are for Pause.
20:53:03  <Zuu> It looks a bit wierd though.
20:53:25  <Zuu> A longer section of context would fix it.
20:53:46  <Rubidium> Zuu: wrong chunk
20:54:14  <Zuu> Oh, that one yes.
20:54:26  <Zuu> That is a bit unneded to say the least. :-)
20:55:05  <Zuu> Hmm that I get for looking for spaces at the end of the line and not \s
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21:00:56  <andythenorth> improved
21:01:11  <andythenorth> I'll need to centre the sprite for other angles too :P
21:01:32  <andythenorth> what larks
21:03:17  <Sacro> \o/
21:04:41  <Zuu> Fishy chunk removed
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21:11:08  <Terkhen>  good night
21:11:14  <Rubidium> good afternoon Terkhen
21:11:33  <andythenorth> bon soir
21:12:30  <andythenorth> so length is calculated from front of RV?
21:12:56  <frosch123> andythenorth: i might write such a diff tomorrow
21:12:59  <andythenorth> but rotation point remains 16px from front of vehicle?
21:13:17  * andythenorth is trying to reverse engineer what ottd does
21:14:20  <andythenorth> oh it's 22:22
21:14:28  <Rubidium> 15:22!
21:14:32  <andythenorth> my holiday in the world of OTTD is probably over :(
21:14:40  <NGC3982> andythenorth: how's that?
21:15:03  <andythenorth> tomorrow brings other things, then work
21:15:09  <Zuu> If you pause a script, turn off gui.ai_developer_tools via the console and then close and re-open the ai debug window, I think you have to blame yourself that you can't unpause your script. :-)
21:15:49  <andythenorth> plausible ;)
21:15:50  <Zuu> (until you re-enable gui.ai_developer_tools and re-opens the ai debug window)
21:16:26  <NGC3982> andythenorth: time is not for using, time is for making.
21:16:31  <NGC3982> andythenorth: make time, and make openttd.
21:17:15  <Zuu> A later patch might even add a pause sript button at the part of the window that is always displayed. But that probably needs storing of pause state in the savegame and more consideration what the consequenses are than if it is just a debug tool to be able to pause a script.
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21:19:04  <andythenorth> NGC3982: a nice greetings card line, written by somebody with no children
21:19:10  <andythenorth> or who's children have left home
21:19:22  <andythenorth> whose /s
21:20:40  <andythenorth> hmm
21:20:55  <andythenorth> the complete absence of feedback on CHIPS means it's good enough?
21:21:23  <andythenorth> it has 100k downloads, and hardly any comments
21:21:47  <supermop> high platforms
21:21:57  <supermop> thats what id ask for
21:22:19  <andythenorth> ah
21:22:26  <andythenorth> you have those in the base set no?
21:23:04  <supermop> but not many
21:23:05  <andythenorth> or you want something different to that ?
21:23:14  <supermop> chips one that match them would be nice
21:23:21  <andythenorth> style?
21:23:25  <andythenorth> concrete?
21:23:42  <andythenorth> mud is out of the question ;)
21:23:53  <supermop> sure, or wood too, but something like a bare version of the default
21:24:01  <supermop> not if its adobe!
21:24:03  <andythenorth> seen this?
21:24:04  <andythenorth>
21:24:20  <Rubidium> andythenorth: weathered copper?
21:24:30  <andythenorth> quaint
21:24:32  <supermop> those look like they are lower than the default platforms
21:24:40  <andythenorth> yes, I could add a high version of that though
21:24:44  <supermop> yeah
21:24:52  <supermop> thats essentially what i meant
21:25:08  <andythenorth> I don't mind the idea, but what does it add?
21:25:32  <andythenorth> variety?
21:25:58  <supermop> basically lets you make the station in that picture without the platform changing height
21:26:25  <andythenorth> I wouldn't replicate all the buildings with high tiles
21:27:00  <andythenorth> ramps?
21:27:05  <NGC3982> andythenorth: ;)
21:28:44  * andythenorth -> bed
21:28:46  <andythenorth> bye
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21:56:28  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:01:38  <Leftie> Hi hi. I'm looking at having a serious attempt at learning to code GRFs. But i have a few questions the big one is, is this correct for OTTD, or is this only relating to TTDP?
23:02:37  <Hazzard> I believe it works for both
23:02:52  <Zuu> Its on the tt-wiki, not a ttdp-wiki.
23:03:08  <Leftie> Well, i thought i better check, just incase i was being a little blind :p
23:03:24  <Zuu> Also before when the spec was on the ttdp-wiki I think most of it was correct also for OpenTTD.
23:03:27  <Hazzard> Have you taken a look at the NML tutorial?
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23:04:10  <Hazzard>
23:05:25  <Leftie> yeah, NML looks a little easier for me. I know a few coding languages so it shouldn't be /that/ much for me to take in. My only real challenge is "if at first i don't succeed, i run off in a pissy fit" :p
23:05:54  *** Firartix [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:08:42  <Zuu> "If you use an editor which you think is quite good and not listed here, you're welcome to add it."  <---- lol, so the NML tutorial will end up in a editor war? :-)
23:09:05  <Leftie> I code nearly everything in Notepad++ :p
23:10:25  *** TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:10:36  <Zuu> I sometimes use it to change encoding of files or on systems that don't have gvim :-)
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23:12:58  <Zuu> The find-replace is however awfully slow in Notepad++. Or at least the treshold file size when you can't use it due to performance problems is lower than gvim. Although gvim is neither perfect on that matter. Really large files require other methods than doing find-replace or macro edits in an editor. :-)
23:14:34  <Leftie> Yeah, that is true enough with the f/r. Although my daily editing is usually Pawn/PHP/SQL/C# and not much F/R is required.
23:15:07  <Leftie> Also, notepad++ seems to be fairly good at opening huge text files, at least compared to anything else default with Windows.
23:15:18  <Leftie> and generally, i keep my systems not full of crap, so download one thing i know and stick with that :p
23:15:33  <Leftie> Ideally, i need more RAM though, only have 4GB, makes some lengthy things a bit slow :<
23:16:38  <Zuu> All default editors in windows sucks at even moderately large files.
23:16:52  <Leftie> Is there any compatibility issues from using NML instead of NFO?
23:17:07  <Zuu> NML get new features in OpenTTD a bit later.
23:17:21  <Zuu> I think there is still some features only supported by NFO.
23:17:24  <Leftie> Does NML GRFs work for TTDP?
23:17:40  *** Hazzard [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:17:50  <Zuu> But I'm not really the right preson to give you a detailed answer as I don't know NFO nor NML. :-)
23:17:57  <Leftie> Ahh.
23:18:10  <Leftie> I may have to come back during the day time, or at least my daytime. It's 00:26 here :o
23:18:29  <Zuu> If you have Squirrel questions that's more my knowledge area in OpenTTD :-)
23:19:03  <Zuu> Its 01:27 here. But its national holiday tomorrow :-)
23:19:23  <Zuu> or today, depending on how you see it :-)
23:19:48  <Leftie> Ahh.
23:20:11  <Leftie> Well, i'll have a read through the tutorial, see how far i manage to get without collapsing Windows into a blackhole and running off in a pissy fit.
23:20:11  <Zuu> I think we are supposed to celibrate some old king or something.
23:20:21  <Leftie> If i get stuck, i'll pop onto the forums, or here.
23:21:02  <Zuu> Good luck
23:21:24  <Leftie> Ta, i may need it :p
23:21:41  <Zuu> Possible. I have yet to dare to try myself :-)
23:22:00  <Leftie> Well, i'm hoping my knowlege of other languages may come in handy, but perhaps not :o
23:22:14  <frosch123> Leftie: the specs have ottd and ttdp all over the place about what works in ttdp and what works in ottd
23:22:26  <frosch123> if you code in nml, in most cases the grf will only work with ottd
23:22:35  <Zuu> NML looks quite reasonable to learn though, if I would just have any motivation for coding any NewGRFs.
23:22:52  <frosch123> noone spent the effort to make nml produce code that works in ttdp
23:22:52  <Leftie> frosch123: Hmm.
23:23:04  <Leftie> I wonder if realistically that many people still use ttdp..
23:23:37  <frosch123> esp, when using a nml with version > 0.2 it will produce version 8 grfs, which do not work with ttdp
23:23:55  <Leftie> Hmm.
23:24:02  <frosch123> Leftie: i think there are about 10 ttdp users which also would use new newgrfs
23:24:21  <Leftie> I may look at NML, as it looks the easier of the two, and if anyone shows interest in what i'm trying to do, may later port it to TTDP, or something :|
23:24:25  <frosch123> (i.e. are present around the forums or similar)
23:25:20  *** Firartix [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:26:17  <frosch123> what kind of newgrf do you want to code?
23:26:22  <heffer> Hetzner <3 So much win.
23:26:25  <frosch123> vehicles, houses?
23:26:31  <Leftie> frosch123: stations.
23:26:42  <frosch123> haha, stations are not supported by nml :p
23:26:44  <Leftie> .
23:26:51  <frosch123> so you have to go with nfo in that case
23:26:54  <Leftie> okay nevermind.
23:27:08  * Leftie goes back to ODF editing Star Trek Armada II files instead, will wait for OTTD to make it work with stations.
23:27:09  <frosch123> i think stations are actually the only thing missing in nml
23:27:17  <Leftie> NFO looks like i might as well just learn assembler :p
23:31:56  <Leftie> I spose i could cheat and see you can decompile someone elses GRF and try learning from that :<
23:33:13  <Leftie> Is there a specific reason they're not done yet, or just not got around to doing it, and will be worked on, frosch123?
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23:44:14  <frosch123> Leftie: if you want to decode grfs, you should try grf2html
23:44:49  <frosch123> stations work quite different to other stuff, so there was no good idea yet how the nml syntax should look like
23:45:04  <Leftie> Ahhh.
23:45:08  <frosch123> also the two nml devs are quite busy with rl the last two months
23:45:14  <frosch123> so there is hardy progress
23:45:15  <Leftie> Ahhh. x2
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23:50:04  <frosch123> night
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