Log for #openttd on 12th June 2012:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:04:09  <vbnm> why cars and trains in openttd are not moving smoothly?
00:04:18  <vbnm> they have some lags
00:05:17  <Supercheese> A variety of factors, depending on how fast your machine is, how many vehicles are on screen, etc.
00:05:29  <Supercheese> Map size too
00:06:06  <vbnm> it happens also on singleplayer 64x64 with one train
00:06:20  <vbnm> it is connected with game ingine i think
00:06:24  <vbnm> engine
00:06:43  <Supercheese> blitter issue perhaps
00:07:09  <Supercheese> I'm not well versed on that; I'll defer to someone else who knows it better
00:08:30  <vbnm> i have this in conf file:   blitter = "32bpp-simple"
00:13:50  <glx> try 32bpp-optimized
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00:22:10  <vbnm> i mean these vehicles seems to no move pixel-by-pixel
00:22:19  <vbnm> even with 32bpp-simple
00:22:29  <vbnm> even with blitter=   (nothing)
00:22:54  <vbnm> especially in they move in N,S,E,W directions
00:22:57  <vbnm> *if
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00:39:15  <hgentil> hello
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02:30:31  <NataS> man i am so conflicted about this game/
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03:48:01  <ganesh> hello?
03:48:28  <ganesh> i want to provide tamil translation for OpenTTD!
03:49:13  <ganesh> Actually i forgot to mention my username "ganesh" in the request email to
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03:52:11  <ganesh> ??
03:53:20  <DabuYu> hello
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03:54:30  <DabuYu> ganesh: see here for more information:
03:54:39  <DabuYu> oh
03:55:06  <ganesh> yeah! i saw!
03:55:10  <DabuYu> maybe send a second mail with your username to that address, i think that should be fine
03:55:27  <DabuYu> (i'm not a translator or coder here, just here out of interest)
03:55:49  <ganesh> oh! anyway thx for the info!
03:55:58  <DabuYu> it's often quiet here so just hang around for a while is the best i think
03:56:11  <DabuYu> but there are people here so don't worry :)
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04:07:03  <NataS> what's the most exotic language OTTD is avalable in?
04:07:21  <__ln__> dutch
04:07:30  <NataS> lolol
04:08:02  <DabuYu> depends on your definition of exotic?
04:08:16  <NataS> Least amount of speakers?
04:08:38  <NataS> Most different from western languages?
04:08:48  <DabuYu> arabic, chinese?
04:09:15  <DabuYu> least amount, hm...
04:09:21  <NataS> Arabic and Chinese are exotic linguisticly, but have more speakers than Tamal probably
04:09:59  <DabuYu> Luxembourgish
04:10:02  <DabuYu> :)
04:10:27  <DabuYu> choose one from list:
04:10:49  <NataS> that link seems to be for translating the wiki
04:10:58  <NataS> the first one, not the one you just posted
04:11:37  <DabuYu> the first link is the one i got to when i clicked on the main page for 'translating openttd'
04:11:56  <NataS> lol
04:12:00  <NataS> lazy linking
04:12:05  <NataS> spoonfeed better
04:12:06  <NataS> :P
04:12:24  <telanus> Think the most exotic could be Ido, as it's the least translated
04:13:06  <DabuYu> and probably has the least speakers too, as it's based on Esperanto...
04:14:06  <NataS> lol
04:14:08  <NataS> Esperanto
04:14:14  <NataS> what about Klingon?
04:14:32  <NataS> also, we have traditional as well as simplified Chinese.
04:14:43  <NataS> just in case the Quin Emperor wants to play.
04:15:38  <DabuYu> they use traditional chinese in Taiwan
04:15:58  <DabuYu> that's 23 million people
04:16:03  <NataS> oh
04:16:18  <NataS> but it's unfinished and needs a translator.
04:16:28  <NataS> also we need an Ido translator
04:16:44  <DabuYu> try to find one out of the 200 users :)
04:16:44  <NataS> just in case Esperanto is too Eurocentric for you
04:16:53  <NataS> lol
04:16:56  <DabuYu> (200 worldwide Ido users)
04:17:03  <NataS> oh wow
04:17:08  <DabuYu> (in 2000 - not sure how many now)
04:17:11  <DabuYu> wiki is useful
04:17:11  <NataS> it's like Esperanto for hipsters.
04:18:09  <NataS> No Klingon though
04:18:11  <NataS> also no pirate
04:18:21  <NataS> Every translation project needs joke languages
04:18:58  <DabuYu> must be difficult to interpret:
04:19:06  <DabuYu> how about pirate town names?
04:19:07  * NataS volunteers to do a pirate translation.
04:19:49  * DabuYu thinks NataS will put all text through a piratifyer script
04:19:51  <NataS> lots of klingon speakers use the latin alphebet though.
04:20:02  <NataS> nah, I'd manualy replace Everything with Yar
04:20:15  <NataS> and swap out nouns for nautical ones
04:20:19  <telanus> we could do Drow
04:20:24  <NataS> I'd make it so building boats would still be playable.
04:20:55  <NataS> also, the part that tells you that you have to buy a real copy of TTD (yeah right), would just give you a link to bittorent
04:20:57  <NataS> :O
04:20:58  <NataS> :P
04:23:14  <DabuYu> openttd in 1600-1800 has sailing boats
04:23:28  <NataS> lol
04:23:35  <NataS> too bad no newgrf disasters
04:23:39  <NataS> so you can't have pirates
04:23:41  <NataS> or train robbers
04:23:43  <DabuYu> lol
04:23:49  <DabuYu> wouldn't that be cool
04:23:55  <NataS> which would be much cooler than halfassed xcom reffrences that everyone disables anyways.
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04:31:46  <NataS> Ido sounds really Romance for an international language.
04:31:59  <NataS> how is it better than Espranto?
04:32:18  <DabuYu> how many people will you find speaking both?
04:32:30  <DabuYu> if you find one, ask him/her :)
04:32:33  <NataS> lol
04:32:59  <NataS> I only learned about it from the fact that it
04:33:08  <NataS> it's the smallest translation of OTTD
04:33:19  <NataS> Answering my first question, but raising much more.
04:33:56  <DabuYu> maybe the translation could be dropped as the most important question is 'how many people will actually use it in openttd'
04:34:02  <NataS> >The US Army has published military phrase books in Esperanto,[14] to be used in war games by mock enemy forces.
04:34:20  <NataS> that's about the only real use of these manufactured languages i can think of.
04:34:43  <NataS> Colonial languages do just fine for trade languages
04:35:08  <DabuYu> it's like a kids secret language for grownups
04:35:40  <NataS> any complain of Eurocentrism falls flat when the alternative sounds like Spanish and french fucking while Russian watches in the corner masturbating
04:36:48  <NataS> if you can learn Espranto easily, you probably already speak or can easily learn a real one like french or english.
04:40:54  <NataS> Lobijan is probably better
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04:50:01  <Rubidium> NataS: Pig Latin
04:50:19  <NataS> lol
04:50:24  <NataS> ubidubi
04:51:07  <NataS> IghtRay ickClay
04:51:39  <NataS> i mean ntrolCay ickClay
04:52:57  <Rubidium> {BLACK}Electsay 'Ustomcay 1' (userway-efinedday) ogrammepray
04:53:16  <Rubidium> Ailwayray acktray ithway athpay andway oneway-ayway athpay ignalssay
04:53:25  <Rubidium> ah well:
04:53:34  <NataS> i was doing it by hand
04:53:37  <NataS> cheater
04:54:18  <NataS> >OpenTTDWAY
04:54:20  <NataS> that's wrong
04:54:39  <NataS> PenTTDOway is the correct translation
04:57:59  <Rubidium> well, the translation is trashed as nobody really maintained it (or the script that created it)
04:59:37  <NataS> lol
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05:20:54  <Rubidium> good evening andy!
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05:42:09  <Rubidium> time for bed then ;)
05:46:09  <andythenorth> All bound for mu mu land
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07:13:30  <Supercheese> Well, good night folks
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07:25:53  * NGC3982 is so tired.
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13:47:37  <Belugas> hello
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15:23:35  <andythenorth> hmm
15:23:40  <andythenorth> quiet forums day
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15:29:44  <LordAro> yay, raspberrypi :)
15:30:49  <andythenorth> does it run ottd?
15:30:54  <andythenorth> can you compile BANDIT on it?
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15:33:11  <andythenorth> hmm
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15:33:27  <andythenorth> FLHerne: the case you found that broke my cargo routing solved
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15:40:16  <LordAro> andythenorth: dunno, i have to locate a power supply first :)
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15:52:20  <andythenorth> quak
15:53:05  <Prof_Frink> andytheduck
15:54:20  <frosch123> moin
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16:21:14  <frosch123> haha, i think tb scared everyone away
16:21:29  <frosch123> his post from yesterday is still the latest post in general ottd
16:27:27  <Xaroth> lolz
16:27:47  <Xaroth> he does that from time to time
16:27:48  <Xaroth> scaring people
16:29:28  <Xaroth> lol
16:29:36  <Xaroth> he really did scare people
16:29:59  <Sacro> @seen Bjarni
16:29:59  <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 35 weeks, 4 days, 16 hours, 20 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
16:31:05  <planetmaker> tbh, I miss the point or reference of that thread entirely
16:31:40  <andythenorth> TrueBrain had been too good for too long; the pressure got to him :P
16:31:51  <planetmaker> :-)
16:32:17  <frosch123> planetmaker: didn't you also have to hand over all your insanity to tb upon joining the dev team?
16:32:53  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: a clear case of: damn, this community has gotten uptight :P
16:32:58  * andythenorth kept his own insanity safe here
16:32:59  <planetmaker> what? Hand over my insanity? Never I would part from it ;-)
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16:33:45  <frosch123> "uhm... on the risk of sidetracking: the category is already readily shown in the general download window..." <- sorry planetmaker: i fail to understand that sentence :s
16:34:04  <frosch123> do you mean the category column in the list?
16:34:16  <planetmaker> frosch123: 'heightmap', 'newgrf' etc... is a column on its own in the general content downloald window
16:34:18  <planetmaker> yes
16:34:27  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: here's something I made once (not just me, I don't claim the full credit :o )
16:34:50  <TrueBrain> dinner, bbl
16:36:02  <andythenorth> meh, I can't get the game to make copies:
16:36:28  <andythenorth> can anyone else?  I'm guessing flash got faster, and the interval is too short :P
16:37:58  <planetmaker> i got a copy
16:38:09  <andythenorth> maybe I click too slow
16:38:19  <andythenorth> you can do copy combos if you're prepared to waste enough time
16:38:23  <planetmaker> but it's making a strain on the touchpad and my finger
16:38:34  <andythenorth> don't sue me ;)
16:39:04  <andythenorth> oh I got it working, 7 copies
16:39:14  <andythenorth> it had tracking in once, someone did hundreds of copies iirc
16:39:19  <andythenorth> or they hacked the tracking API :P
16:40:44  <planetmaker> insane ;-)
16:40:49  <andythenorth> those were fun days, but now I am responsible :P
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16:45:13  <FLHerne> andythenorth: sorry, wasn't paying attention. How did you fix it?
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16:48:36  <andythenorth> you won't approve
16:48:47  <andythenorth> my proposal is based around nodes yes?
16:49:00  <FLHerne> Ok...?
16:49:06  <andythenorth> and for any cargo going to a specific destination, each node has a weighting
16:49:25  <andythenorth> and any vehicle arriving at the station (node) has other nodes in its orders, each with a weighting
16:49:44  <andythenorth> the cargo will be loaded on the vehicle if any of the nodes in the order list have lower weighting than current node
16:50:08  <FLHerne> Yes...?
16:50:23  <andythenorth> if I change how the weighting is calculated, then it will load on your long transfer scheme
16:50:56  <andythenorth> so if you have, say 7 nodes in the transfer chain, the start node is weighted 7, and the next one 6 and so on, so it's ok
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16:51:11  <andythenorth> the other, shorter route would have a node weighted 1
16:51:19  <andythenorth> so cargo would be transported by both routes
16:51:36  <andythenorth> but you could control that via the frequency + capacity of vehicles
16:51:42  <Terkhen> hello
16:51:55  <FLHerne> That sounds more useful :-)
16:52:22  <andythenorth> but maybe it should all be done simutrans way; cargo is routed, via waybills specifying route
16:52:28  <andythenorth> then valid vehicles pick it up
16:53:33  <andythenorth> so there would be a cargo flow 'coal from tinton mines to frampington power station'
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16:53:52  * FLHerne doesn't like YACD-style routing
16:53:53  <andythenorth> which would be routed as 'any route', 'go via xyz', 'go via xyz, then abc' etc
16:54:18  <andythenorth> I don't want a system that tries to simplify routing, then adds more orders and more clicking :P
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16:56:52  <andythenorth> FLHerne: you don't like YACD style routing because....?
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16:59:55  <Elukka> i like yacd style routing and wish it worked as well as cargodist :/
17:00:17  <FLHerne> Because I want to be able to send cargo wherever I want, not where the game wants it :P
17:08:18  <Prof_Frink> Every gram of livestock, grain and steel to a factory in one corner of the map, and goods to a city in the far corner?
17:09:33  <FLHerne> Right on all but the goods. I send those everywhere by pax train :D
17:10:24  <andythenorth> hmm
17:10:32  <andythenorth> so what if cargo was routed
17:10:44  <andythenorth> where it's routed is a setting
17:10:50  <andythenorth> you can set a route, or the game can set a route
17:11:06  <andythenorth> depending on game style you want
17:11:25  <FLHerne> :D
17:11:56  <andythenorth> then the actual routing is handled by [some rules]
17:12:17  <andythenorth> a start node and an end node are always present
17:12:25  <andythenorth> and the player can force intermediate nodes
17:12:35  <andythenorth> or let the game route according to [rules]
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17:13:41  <andythenorth>
17:13:53  <andythenorth> why did I never play civ?  I like SM games
17:15:01  <Prof_Frink> S&M games?
17:16:10  <andythenorth> Sid Meier :P
17:17:39  <Pinkbeast> andy: selection effect. The person like you who has the time to do all those OTTD sets is the one who didn't ever play Civ.
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17:23:56  <andythenorth> maybe I should get a copy of Civ :P
17:24:08  <andythenorth> Civ probably needs big trucks anyway
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17:28:07  <Wolf01> hello
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17:36:38  <Terkhen> andythenorth: if you just want to check civilization games, freeciv is worth a try
17:36:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r24340 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:36:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:36:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 1 changes by telanus
17:36:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by habell
17:36:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: greek - 6 changes by kyrm
17:36:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: korean - 4 changes by telk5093
17:36:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: persian - 10 changes by Peymanpn
17:36:59  <andythenorth> I think more likely I want to spend 10 years playing it :D
17:38:52  <andythenorth> hmm
17:39:00  <andythenorth> is it practical for cargo packets to store a route?
17:39:04  <andythenorth> probably not per packet
17:39:12  <andythenorth> but they could have a pointer to a route pool?
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17:47:03  <FLHerne> Are newgrf buoys possible yet?
17:48:57  * FLHerne imagines a wide variety of them :-)
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17:50:49  <Terkhen> andythenorth: no idea :P
17:53:10  <frosch123> they store the id of their source station
17:53:19  <frosch123> so instead you could store the id of the source order
17:53:49  <frosch123> since implicit orders all loading places have an order actually
17:53:51  <andythenorth> hmm
17:53:54  <andythenorth> interesting
17:54:18  <frosch123> you just need some way to keep orders when they are deleted from the vehicle as long as the cargo exists :p
17:54:19  * andythenorth has ideas for cleanly separated layers of cargo routing
17:54:46  <andythenorth> probably foolish
17:55:06  <frosch123> hmm, otoh, a single order index could not represent transfers
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17:55:17  <andythenorth> because...?
17:55:26  <frosch123> there is no releation betweeen vehicle orders and routes, is there?
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17:55:40  <frosch123> routes could consist of the orders of multipel vehicles
17:55:44  <andythenorth> yes
17:55:47  <andythenorth> routes are nodes
17:55:50  <andythenorth> and links
17:56:00  <andythenorth> (nodes imply links I guess ):P
17:58:02  <andythenorth> route would be: source [optional intermediate nodes] destination
17:58:08  <andythenorth> transfers...hmm
18:04:37  * andythenorth ponders two options
18:05:18  <andythenorth> - pre-compute the entire route with the pathfinder, cache
18:05:35  <andythenorth> on arrival at a station, cargo packet looks up next node on route
18:06:07  <andythenorth> - store the weighting of previous station in the cargo packet,
18:06:21  <andythenorth> on arrival at any station, unload if weighting is lower than previous station
18:06:34  <andythenorth> second option is more fluid, but will have horrible edge cases
18:06:57  <__ln__>
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18:10:44  <andythenorth> oh dear
18:10:59  * andythenorth just invented a form of 'shunting' based on cargo-vehicle-container routes :P
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18:12:11  <andythenorth> give vehicles a certain number of 'slots'
18:12:36  <andythenorth> ach, we've done this idea before :)
18:12:43  <andythenorth> but without the idea of giving cargo routes
18:13:04  <andythenorth> it works best for trains, not other vehicle types
18:16:21  <andythenorth> blearch
18:17:19  <FLHerne> Are ships with more than one cargo possibel?
18:17:38  <FLHerne> s/possibel/possible/, even :-(
18:17:38  <andythenorth> probably
18:18:06  <FLHerne> Can I have some in FISH please? :P
18:18:14  <Yexo> FLHerne: it's not currently possible
18:18:25  <Yexo> with code changes it could become possible, I think andythenorth referred to that
18:18:35  <andythenorth> I haven't read those parts of code
18:18:48  <andythenorth> my guess is it's a patch more on the lines of 'tedious' than 'brainfuck'
18:19:18  <andythenorth> as well as core game, it would need extension of newgrf spec for things like
18:19:24  <andythenorth> 'most common cargo type on this ship'
18:19:30  <andythenorth> 'all cargo types on this ship'
18:19:31  <andythenorth> etc
18:19:50  <andythenorth> and gui work for refitting one vehicle to n cargos
18:20:29  <andythenorth> for ships, providing is as 'n holds' might be nicest, but that might be considered not generic enough
18:20:35  <andythenorth> and possibly not good for PAX :P
18:20:37  <FLHerne> Multiple 'holds' would make autorefit more useful :-)
18:20:46  <FLHerne> Ninja'd as usual:-(
18:22:23  <NataS> I'd love to see airplanes and boats hold mixed cargos
18:22:38  <NataS> within reason, Oil and Grain and Coal should probably require specalized ships
18:22:56  <FLHerne> Also, can ships be animated? Or is the wake just a fixed pixel-sequence thing?
18:22:58  <NataS> question, has anybody transported water by boat?
18:23:02  <NataS> :V
18:23:46  <andythenorth> FLHerne: can be animated, the work to do it would suck
18:24:06  <andythenorth> and yes, water tank ships exist, as do orange juice tankers
18:24:09  <FLHerne> Is there a maximum number of animation stages?
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18:24:42  <andythenorth> might be 255, or some bigger number
18:24:46  <andythenorth> newgrf wiki would tell you
18:24:50  <FLHerne> :D
18:25:02  * andythenorth is assuming ships have animation :P
18:25:03  <Alberth> lo andy
18:25:06  <andythenorth> hi Alberth
18:25:16  <FLHerne> If some of those were entirely transparent...  ;)
18:26:00  * FLHerne has a crazy idea :D
18:28:43  <FLHerne> Someone tell me why whales are a bad idea :P
18:29:01  <Alberth> why whales are a bad idea
18:29:09  <NataS> because newgrf disasters are not implemented
18:29:19  <NataS> or do you mean a whaling industry?
18:29:54  <NataS> that's because ocean industries are still hardlinked into oil rigs, so they have to produce PAX and accept helicopters.
18:29:57  <FLHerne> No, whales as ships :-)
18:30:12  <NataS> what cargo would whales carry?
18:30:18  <Yexo> disaster: whale hunters arrive
18:30:32  <FLHerne> 1 person, presumably :P
18:30:51  <NataS> disaster: Sea shepard harasses your oil tankers.
18:31:03  <FLHerne> If ships can be animated and some stages invisible, whales would be possible?
18:31:12  <Yexo> yes
18:31:20  <NataS> what about submarines?
18:31:23  <Yexo> same
18:31:28  <NataS> those could be animated as shadows underwater
18:31:31  <Yexo> no idea if animation for ships is possible though
18:31:48  <NataS> Heck, supercavitating submarines would be cool for fast future ships
18:32:05  <NataS> Uhh, FISH ships raise or lower in the water when loading/unloading
18:32:11  <NataS> That's an animation isn't it?
18:32:18  <andythenorth> nope
18:32:54  <NataS> oh, just different sprites for multiple load levels?
18:33:06  <andythenorth> yup
18:33:14  <andythenorth> hmm, all vehicles claim to have a motion counter
18:34:04  <andythenorth> can't see any animation varaction 2, or triggers
18:34:10  <andythenorth> I guess that's tiles-only stuff
18:35:15  <FLHerne> So no whales? :-(
18:35:28  * FLHerne hasn't tried NewGRF development yet
18:36:21  <NataS> or submarines
18:37:05  <NataS> you'd need multible frames, when it stop's it's at the surface, then as it accelerates it dives, and at full speed you see a wake of bubbles on the surface as it supercavitates.
18:38:16  <Yexo> don't ships slow down in curves?
18:38:45  <frosch123> you can animate ships bases on the movement counter or depending on time
18:38:50  <frosch123> just like trains
18:39:21  <frosch123> i think there are steam engines with animated rods
18:39:37  <frosch123> though now i actually wonder whether you can see that without extrazoom :p
18:40:18  <Yexo> although you could do stuff with that like: submerged when in the water, above water when (un)loading, you can't make it dive when leaving the dock
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18:41:02  <andythenorth> Yexo: check speed
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18:41:11  <Yexo> that fails in corners
18:41:15  <andythenorth> that's how FISH hydrofoils elevate :)
18:41:27  <frosch123> i don't think that ships slow in curves
18:41:37  <frosch123> but they do not deaccelerate
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18:41:42  <frosch123> they just stop :p
18:41:43  <andythenorth> ship handling is pretty basic
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18:42:07  <frosch123> so diving down should work (unless there is a breakdown), but diving up fails
18:42:16  <andythenorth> it will come up like a cork :P
18:42:31  <andythenorth> ship animation is not a high priority :)
18:42:43  <andythenorth> I haven't found any use for it so far
18:42:54  <andythenorth> I considered animating smoke :P
18:43:04  <frosch123> with extra zoom you clearly have to make the radar thingie rotate
18:43:06  <frosch123> :p
18:43:37  <frosch123> sailing ships could animate the sails
18:43:46  <frosch123> smaller ships could ride on the waves
18:43:54  <frosch123> or turn over
18:43:55  <andythenorth> oh indeed :P
18:44:03  <andythenorth> I would settle for smoke effect vehicles :P
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18:44:59  <frosch123> there is now a flag to hide the breakdown effect
18:45:13  <frosch123> so you can just animate the vehicle itself while it is broken down
18:45:28  <frosch123> fish ships should really turn over on breakdowns :p
18:46:07  <Yexo> they should lose part of their cargo when they break down and turn over :p
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18:48:02  <andythenorth> no :P
18:48:05  <andythenorth> that's new disasters
18:48:28  <andythenorth> hmm
18:48:34  <FLHerne> Are those planned? :P
18:48:45  <andythenorth> no
18:48:51  <frosch123> depends on what you consider "planned"
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18:55:39  * Xaroth eats cornishpasty
18:57:40  <Alberth> you should eat more during dinner instead
18:59:37  * andythenorth -> pub
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19:19:50  <Alberth> back already?
19:21:47  <andythenorth> in the pub now
19:21:51  <andythenorth> work
19:22:00  <andythenorth> most of our important work happens in the pub
19:22:14  <Knogle> mm, beer
19:22:32  <Alberth> Knogle: nah, informal meetings!
19:22:42  <Knogle> :P
19:23:46  <TrueBrain> stupid british people
19:23:52  <TrueBrain> too much business happens drunk
19:24:04  <Knogle> jealous much?
19:24:06  <Knogle> hehe
19:24:10  <Alberth> the least drunk persone wins :)
19:24:48  <TrueBrain> Knogle: very
19:31:06  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: stupid? :P
19:31:16  <andythenorth> last css I'm writing for you (this week) :P
19:31:40  <TrueBrain> good; I wouldnt want you to get overworked :D
19:34:42  <andythenorth> is 'the pub' why Britain is not much good at tech? :P
19:37:59  <TrueBrain> only at tech?
19:38:01  <TrueBrain> hmm
19:38:24  <andythenorth> blearch
19:38:34  <TrueBrain> you made it so easy
19:38:35  <TrueBrain> :D
19:44:46  <Zuu> TrueBrain: Did you get carried away by the abuse discussion and missed my suggestion just before Hyronymus. Or shall I take your silence as you agree completely and there is nothing to discuss. ;-)
19:45:45  <TrueBrain> Zuu: I read it, kinda anyway; atm I just filter through things that need replying
19:45:51  <TrueBrain> and stuff that can be handled when we sit down to rewrite it
19:46:25  <TrueBrain> but I like the idea to split it in deps/suggestions
19:46:28  <TrueBrain> only makes sense
19:47:34  <Zuu> Ok good
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19:48:53  <TrueBrain> kinda wanted to take the day of off politics, but replies like Hyro need some stearing to get a reply that contributed; no offense or anything, but vague replies only make me puzzle; I need clear reactions like you did Zuu :)
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19:51:50  <Zuu> :-)
19:52:40  * andythenorth visits forum
19:52:56  <andythenorth> [god] save us from well-meaning suggestions made by people with no idea....
19:52:59  <andythenorth> ...what the problem is
19:53:14  <andythenorth> I have to do a lot of work getting people to generate ideas
19:53:33  <TrueBrain> it is one of the hardest parts of being an IT person I think
19:53:34  <andythenorth> and I have learnt to never criticise or shut down an idea because it leads to silence
19:53:39  <TrueBrain> making the other part understand what you need to progress
19:53:48  <andythenorth> but I have also learnt to be very clear on what the fricking problem is :P
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19:53:58  <TrueBrain> hehe; indeed. Try to positively induce better ideas ;)
19:54:08  <andythenorth> don't waste time solving non problems
19:54:19  <TrueBrain> and, like said yesterday: that is more for version N
19:54:21  <TrueBrain> :D
19:54:26  <andythenorth> we'll all be dead soon, don't spend precious minutes on retrograde bullshit :P
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19:54:38  <andythenorth> oops
19:54:43  * andythenorth will go back to doing work in the pub
19:54:51  <TrueBrain> enjoy
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20:39:41  <frosch123> night
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20:42:46  <TrueBrain> monster thread created; andythenorth asked for it, andythenorth gets it :P
20:44:25  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: "Many would ask: why not PHP?"
20:44:32  <andythenorth> ^ surely the answer to that is obvious? :P
20:44:43  * andythenorth somewhere got a prejudice against PHP, with zero evidence :P
20:44:45  <TrueBrain> I still felt the need to answer it :)
20:45:32  <andythenorth> it is bad behaviour from me
20:45:45  <andythenorth> I have never written any PHP, I don't know why I think it's so meh
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20:45:57  <andythenorth> mostly because lots of bad developers can do PHP and PHP only :P
20:46:06  <andythenorth> it's a social judgement not a technical judgement :P
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21:01:52  <Terkhen>  good night
21:04:10  <andythenorth> bye Terkhen
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21:23:41  <Sacro> Guybrush: don't ask to ask
21:23:42  <Guybrush> Good evening!
21:23:57  <Guybrush> Come again?
21:25:32  <Guybrush> Oh, I see. Rivers, in the map editor. Where do I find them?
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21:51:32  <andythenorth> do we like tree structures?
21:51:45  * andythenorth is not convinced, don't have any good case tho
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21:53:34  <andythenorth> bed!
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23:24:39  <Wolf01> 'night all
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