Log for #openttd on 16th June 2012:
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08:29:48  <Wolf01> hello!
08:30:35  <__ln___> you could say that
08:32:43  <Alberth> moin Wolf01
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10:02:38  <hackalittlebit> morning folks
10:03:13  <Alberth> moin
10:05:19  <hackalittlebit> Hello albert, can you tell me if I have to choose between git and hg which one should I take (doing spring cleaning here :))
10:05:47  <hackalittlebit> I am inclined to hg
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10:06:24  <hackalittlebit> and is it possible to work with hg and svn together?
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10:08:04  <Alberth> hi
10:08:38  <Alberth> I use hg only, I tried git a few times very shortly, but its interface and me do not like each other
10:09:08  <Alberth> probably not in the last place because it uses the same set of commands as hg, except they all do something different :p
10:09:36  <Alberth> technically, there is not much difference, in the sense that they can both do about the same things
10:10:15  <hackalittlebit> ok thanks
10:10:43  <Alberth> you can work with hg and svn in various ways
10:11:35  <hackalittlebit> I'll try hg and experiment
10:11:36  <Alberth> what I do in Openttd is to have a local mirrir of the hg mirror, and from my local mirror I clone a new repo for each project that I do
10:11:56  <hackalittlebit> I see
10:12:12  <Alberth> SVN is sort of useless unless you have commit access
10:12:38  <Alberth> as you can check out, but never save your changes otherwise
10:13:17  <hackalittlebit> I understand alberth thanks.
10:13:49  <hackalittlebit> today going to really clean the mess here :)
10:13:50  <Alberth> but hg-svn integration does go further, you can checkout a svn repo as hg clone, and they even have push (commit in svn speak) support
10:14:12  <Alberth> but I never dared the latter :)
10:14:54  <Alberth> obviously, if you have only a few projects, you can use the openttd hg mirror directly instead of having a local mirror
10:15:09  <Alberth> it just costs a bit more network access
10:15:33  <hackalittlebit> no I am going to make local mirror
10:16:07  <Alberth> a hg clone is a full repo, that is, all history of the project comes with it
10:16:23  <Alberth> although if you clone at a local disk, it shares data afaik
10:16:52  <Alberth> it's great for locally searching the project history :)
10:18:12  <hackalittlebit> Last question Alberth?
10:18:31  <Alberth> no need to ask for asking, just ask :)
10:19:09  <hackalittlebit> FS5147 do you want me to perfect it more or is it sufficient for the time being?
10:19:23  * Alberth looks
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10:20:27  <Alberth> oh, I haven't looked at it for quite some time
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10:21:08  <hackalittlebit> frosch has made already some preparations in trunk I think
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10:22:04  <Alberth> speaking of the devil :)
10:23:00  <Alberth> frosch123:  a copy of the last 20 minutes:
10:23:29  <Alberth> nice clean windows, I think
10:23:51  <Alberth> I don't like the horizontal strips much, they don't seem to add much
10:25:10  <Alberth> hackalittlebit:  the problem with polishing to perfectness is that you can continue doing that forever
10:25:26  <hackalittlebit> :)
10:25:40  <Alberth> so imho it is better to make a next step, implement it, so you can try it live, show other people, etc
10:25:41  <frosch123> i am using hgsvn if i have a large queue to commit
10:26:25  <frosch123> but it needs setting up for every queue again, since the history which travels back via ottd svn and hg is not the same which i push
10:26:38  <frosch123> due to svn doing stuff with keywords and times
10:27:01  <frosch123> but anyway, without svn-commit access there is no point in using svn
10:27:07  <frosch123> just use hg :)
10:27:18  <frosch123> (unless you ask michi or fonsinchen)
10:27:43  <hackalittlebit> frosch123 pyton and me don't go together :)
10:27:53  <hackalittlebit> I'll use hg
10:28:05  <hackalittlebit> thanks guys
10:28:20  <frosch123> i think you are cionfusing stuff :)
10:28:22  <Alberth> hackalittlebit: euhm, you do knwo that hg is written in Python, right? :)
10:28:26  <frosch123> hg uses python, while git does not
10:28:41  <Alberth> git uses 2 or 3 different languages :)
10:28:52  <hackalittlebit> no
10:30:10  <frosch123> wrt. fs#5147 we should code the mapgen window, and maybe remove some stuff from game settings (which we move to mapgen)
10:30:44  <hackalittlebit> shoot
10:30:47  <frosch123> for the other topics i see no convergence in what to do, and it does not look useful to wait on it
10:33:39  <hackalittlebit> frosch123: please reply in fs5147 and I will apply changes.
10:34:47  <frosch123> i have no settled opinon about the intro gui
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10:35:21  <frosch123> imo the mapgen gui needs coding
10:35:39  <frosch123> the difficulty settings need a discussion/decision what to do with them
10:35:49  <hackalittlebit> yes
10:35:57  <frosch123> and what would be the implications (esp. wrt. ai) if we remove it
10:36:13  <frosch123> i do not dare thinking further than that :)
10:36:23  <hackalittlebit> :)
10:36:26  <frosch123> the intro gui comes lated from my pov
10:37:17  <frosch123> *later
10:39:08  <hackalittlebit> frosch123: I will review it myself again, need time to think also, I'll give you my opinion in fs5147
10:39:41  <hackalittlebit> I am also not yet 100% happy about it.
10:40:58  <hackalittlebit> need to go pick up the kids, see you
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11:06:48  <teampedro> hello
11:07:29  <FLHerne> hello
11:08:03  <teampedro> i need a little help with setting a server up
11:10:43  * FLHerne doesn't know a whole lot about that :-( - I can try and answer questions if you want though...
11:11:03  <teampedro> ok thank you,
11:11:10  <FLHerne> What is it you want to know?
11:11:27  <Alberth> just dump the questions, and if someone knows, he/she will answer
11:11:36  * FLHerne wonders if anyone who does know what they're doing is online :P
11:11:52  <teampedro> right i have set my router up ok and my bother has his router set up for server but we cant connect to the game
11:12:00  <Alberth> probably not, sane admins are still in bed :)
11:12:38  * Alberth ponders how it can be ok if it does not work :p
11:12:52  <FLHerne> Does it show up in ?
11:12:58  <Alberth> right, did you also set the firewall in the router?
11:13:05  <Alberth> and inside the machine(s)?
11:13:09  <FLHerne> @ports
11:13:09  <DorpsGek> FLHerne: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
11:13:43  <teampedro> yer we have set the firewalls and set the TCP/UDP's
11:14:21  <Alberth> also, how "cant connect"? through the advertising service, or directly by typing the address of the other machine?
11:14:53  <teampedro> the game is adverised and just says network game connection lost
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11:16:23  <FLHerne> You might need to increase the map-download timeout?
11:16:30  <teampedro> ok
11:16:35  <Alberth> try a small map first
11:16:53  <FLHerne> If the connection is slow, it might timeout before the map finishes downloading
11:17:41  <Alberth>   seems to have a lot of information
11:18:17  <Alberth> you can also try searching the forums, there are regularly people with connection problems
11:19:08  <teampedro> my bro has just made a server game and it appears in the list of servers on the site
11:19:58  <FLHerne> might be the relevant bit of the page Alberth linked to
11:20:12  <frosch123> teampedro: if you have timeout issues, try a smaller map
11:20:18  * FLHerne is probably stating the very obvious, actually :P
11:20:39  <Alberth> FLHerne: np, people are bad at reading :p
11:20:47  <frosch123> 2kx2k maps are likely a bad idea with the average private upload connection
11:21:09  <FLHerne> If it disconnects instantly, perhaps the firewall at your end is blocking the connection?
11:21:25  <FLHerne> Unless you checked that already :-)
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12:39:52  <V453000> hello, could someone please give me a hint how could I code the following? I want to have passenger local trains be refittable to colour liveries for passengers cargo. Currently I only have sprites defined as PASS: spriteset_bla; ... Do I somehow make various versions of PASS, or is there some other way how to achieve that?
12:40:15  <V453000> Japanese train set does that for example, refittability to various colours
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12:52:15  <frosch123> V453000: use the "cargo_subtype_text" callback to define livery names
12:52:34  <frosch123> then use the "cargo_subtype" variable to select the graphics
12:55:06  <V453000> I will have a look into that, thanks frosch123!
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12:56:27  <nekomaster> Hello
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13:00:52  <nekomaster> bacon
13:01:42  <Alberth> it is?
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13:04:32  <nekomaster> just wondering what I should build for my passenger train
13:04:42  <nekomaster> British trains on the crete height map
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13:08:46  <Alberth> to play, you need loads to nice railway tracks
13:08:56  <Alberth> and stations in the cities, of course!
13:09:11  <Alberth> s/loads to/loads of/
13:09:17  <nekomaster> Lol, i know
13:09:50  <nekomaster> I got a coal line running 400 tons of coal to a power plant frequently. Though Im wondering what passenger train I should go with
13:10:25  <Alberth> oh, you mean what vehicle set?
13:10:35  <nekomaster> I have the money for 3rd conversion, but I wonder if i should go with a short fast diesel train, or a slightly slower and higher capacity 3rd EMU
13:11:11  <Alberth> ah, the nightmares of any tycoon :)
13:11:14  <nekomaster> lol
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13:11:31  <nekomaster> the emu is also 4000 pounds cheaper to run
13:11:59  <Alberth> that sounds like a good deal to me :)
13:12:34  <nekomaster> Hmm, so 260 Passengers at 75mph for 5000 GBP, or 240-50 Passengers at 80 MPH for 9000 GBP
13:13:30  <Alberth> but I don't ever get to the 3rd conversion, nor do I play with british train sets :)
13:13:36  <nekomaster> Lol
13:14:02  <nekomaster> I may be Canadian, but Im also part Scottish. I love most train sets, though North American and British trains are my fav's
13:14:08  <Alberth> but 5 mph does not sound convincing to me
13:14:12  <nekomaster> Lol
13:14:37  <nekomaster> in the game, 80 looks a good amount faster then 75 to me
13:14:40  <Alberth> I either play with the default set, or the opengfx+ one (which is almost default)
13:14:52  <nekomaster> Ahh
13:14:59  <nekomaster> well, do you ever use the EMU's
13:15:34  <Alberth> perhaps traction is better with the 80 ones?
13:15:41  <Alberth> what's EMU?
13:15:54  <nekomaster> Electric Multiple Unit
13:16:03  <__ln___> european monetary union
13:16:04  <Alberth> (aka, unlikely :) )
13:16:28  <nekomaster> BTW, the default stuff is close in looks and spec's to British trains
13:16:54  <Alberth> the original author lived in England, so that's to be expected :)
13:17:12  <nekomaster> Yeah
13:17:25  <nekomaster> no wonder why the north american stuff is so off
13:17:25  <nekomaster> :p
13:18:06  <nekomaster> btw, I think the 80MPH diesel has better TE
13:18:11  <nekomaster> 259 kN per unit
13:18:36  <nekomaster> the 3rd Rail EMU has 100 kN
13:18:38  <Alberth> America is very different, it's much larger, so I'd expect to see that back in the specs
13:18:54  <Alberth> ugh, that's not much
13:18:56  <nekomaster> Well the specs for the sub-artic stuff is rather off
13:19:09  <nekomaster> most of the sub-artic stuff looks like American stuff
13:19:22  <nekomaster> like the CS2400 and CS4000
13:20:10  <Alberth> could be, I never read real-world train specs :)
13:20:41  <nekomaster> hmm...
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13:21:23  <nekomaster> North American trains IRL are huge
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13:22:10  <Alberth> I come from the simulation/software side, OpenTTD is an interesting program in that respect
13:22:38  <nekomaster> I prefer to use real stuff in OpenTTD
13:22:57  <nekomaster> Usually Im using American/Canadian, british, or australian stuff
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13:24:47  <Alberth> that seems to be the preference of the majority of the players (and vehicle newgrf authors)
13:25:18  <nekomaster> Heh
13:25:28  <Alberth> which unfortunately leaves toyland very empty w.r.t. newgrf support
13:25:32  <nekomaster> Well, theres not much in the way of Australian stuff
13:26:13  <nekomaster> thats why ive been working on GARS, though its going kinda slow with me leading the my own project
13:26:41  <Alberth> yeah, being a tycoon also costs time ;)
13:26:49  <nekomaster> lol
13:27:24  <nekomaster> Though i wish i could get back the same flare I had for OpenTTD when i first started playing it
13:27:48  <nekomaster> It also doesnt help that I can never get comfortable for long on most maps
13:29:38  <Alberth> Yeah, I play for a few hours, and then I have had enough of it again. Starting at 1950, I never get further than about 1980 :)
13:30:06  <nekomaster> I hardly play for more then 5-10 years lately
13:30:19  <__ln___> *than
13:30:21  <nekomaster> i use to play it for hours, going from 1900's to 200's
13:30:24  <nekomaster> 2000's
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13:36:31  <nekomaster> herp
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15:20:17  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: what weird search did you do?
15:20:32  <frosch123> i ended up with 400000+ usages of "ttd"
15:21:17  <Eddi|zuHause> TTD -"Open TTD"
15:21:39  <frosch123> hmm, "ttd" -"open ttd" -"ttd patch" gives me 46700 now
15:21:47  <frosch123> -"ttd patch" gave quite an impact
15:22:53  <frosch123> oh, capitalisation? :o
15:27:44  <__ln___> stop the press, i've found a flaw in openttd
15:27:51  <frosch123> i have no idea, sometimes it says 400000 sometimes 50000
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15:28:39  <frosch123> __ln___: we sell commas only in packs of dozen
15:29:36  <__ln___> I bought a ferry that is traveling at 15 mph when imperial units are in use.
15:30:21  <__ln___> since when do ships travel miles per hour rather than nautical miles per hour, aka knots?
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15:31:29  <drac_boy> hi
15:33:49  <frosch123> __ln___: the ottd world is no sphere, you cannot go from one side of the map to the other
15:33:54  <frosch123> so, knots make no sense
15:36:52  <__ln___> real-life definitions of units are irrelevant as the scale of things is nowhere near realistic in ottd world.
15:38:29  <drac_boy> heh heh
15:40:30  <tokai|mdlx> Just change the label, aka: display "kn" instead "mph"? :)
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15:42:13  <__ln___> can't do that, 15 mph is only 13 knots.
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16:09:36  <Eddi|zuHause> something's utterly wrong with civ5 now... the gui "lags", i.e. when i go in one city, it shows the data of the previous city i was in
16:10:15  <Eddi|zuHause> or when i switch units, it doesn't switch the options what i can do with the unit with it
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17:15:05  <Alberth> A forest with 0 tonnes production, would that qualify as an opengfx+industries bug?
17:15:45  <frosch123> no :)
17:16:11  <frosch123> either it is newly planted
17:16:16  <Alberth> nope
17:16:29  <frosch123> or it produces so few cargo, that it only distributed the production every two months
17:16:43  <Alberth> that could be the case :p
17:16:54  <frosch123> or, it produces wood by cutting trees, and they are all gone
17:17:05  <Alberth> nope
17:17:16  <Alberth> aka, production is too low thus :)
17:17:21  <Alberth> thanks
17:19:18  * Alberth destroys the station
17:20:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i thought production below 4 per cycle will cause the industry to close?
17:21:04  <Eddi|zuHause> (for default industries)
17:21:53  <frosch123> it works different for smooth economy
17:22:18  <frosch123> and production is not immediately pushed to stations, but there is a minimum amount to transfer
17:23:36  <Eddi|zuHause> around 8-ish, i thought
17:23:49  <frosch123> smooth economy seems to be only limited by 1 per cycle
17:23:52  <frosch123> so, yes 8 per month
17:24:27  <frosch123> and forests distribute at 30
17:24:47  <frosch123> so, 3 months with zero production, 4 month with 32 :)
17:24:56  <frosch123> s/4/4th/
17:25:31  <Eddi|zuHause> ha, i love this discussion: "the game is not realistic, the trains turn 45°" - "no, i play CETS" :p
17:25:45  <frosch123> lol
17:25:48  <Alberth> :D
17:35:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r24345 /trunk/src/lang/vietnamese.txt:
17:35:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:35:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 11 changes by nglekhoi
18:19:22  * Pulec will be back
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18:32:55  <Terkhen> hello
18:33:05  <Rubidium>,+toronto&hl=en&ll=43.654287,-79.391045&spn=0.001983,0.001556&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=58.347972,50.976562&hq=the+village+idiot+pub,&hnear=Toronto,+Toronto+Division,+Ontario&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=43.654286,-79.391554&panoid=Pz9uItq4gZPNVtaSyNeRbw&cbp=12,326.48,,0,1.87 ;)
18:33:32  <DorpsGek> it's named after me?
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19:14:43  <Alberth> DorpsGek: I think you were first
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19:52:03  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r24346 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix: EQUALSIZE widget containers within EQUALSIZE containers were initialised with wrong sizes.
19:52:32  <Wolf01> EQUALCEPTION
19:52:55  <Wolf01> (I bet somebody was waiting for this)
19:53:08  * Alberth nods (but not me)
19:53:28  * frosch123 neither
19:53:44  * Alberth thinks it was the CIA-2
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20:36:01  <SpComb> not all widget containers are created equal
20:38:30  <Alberth> luckily not, it would be very boring :)
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20:48:57  <Terkhen> good night
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21:23:57  <ErichEckner> Hi!
21:23:57  <ErichEckner> I'm trying to compile the src of openttd on a debian-based machine, but ./configure complains about missing lzma although it is installed ... any suggestions?
21:25:15  <ErichEckner> btw: I had the same issue under mingw on windows, but with some cfg-path-editing it went working (same thing doesn't seem to work under linux)
21:25:18  <cornishpasty> ErichEckner: which lzma package is installed? Install the -dev package too
21:26:25  <frosch123> it's actually called "xz-devel"
21:26:28  <frosch123> not "lzma"
21:27:23  <frosch123> hmm, no, remembered wrong. the package is indeed called "liblzma-dev"
21:27:24  <ErichEckner> liblzma5, liblzma-dev, xz-lzma, lzma-dev are installed
21:28:36  <ErichEckner> now i tried lzma instead of xz-lzma, but this won't work either
21:29:10  <ErichEckner> lzma-dev si version 9.22-2
21:29:14  <ErichEckner> *is
21:29:55  <frosch123> what does "pkg-config liblzma --libs" tell you?
21:30:47  <ErichEckner> ... that this command is unknown ^^
21:31:03  <frosch123> so, you need pkg-config
21:31:14  <ErichEckner> lets see ... :-)
21:32:05  <ErichEckner> okay, now he complains about something else, but I'll try to get thio work, thx!
21:33:47  <frosch123> <- might also want to take a look at that
21:33:50  <ErichEckner> okay, configure runs through
21:34:17  <ErichEckner> hmm
21:34:35  <ErichEckner> obviously I forgot some packages (I read the wiki before :-D)
21:35:57  <ErichEckner> okay, compiling seems to work, too :-) (but this still doesn't explain, why i had to edit the PKG_CONFIG_PATH in mingw manually so he would find my liblzma ... but no problem *hehe*)
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21:44:28  <Mister_Argent> Quick newbie question -- Will making planes fly to further cities result in me getting more cash per flight?
21:45:54  <Mister_Argent> Also, in temperate maps, what's the best way to make cities grow?
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21:46:23  <glx> a bus network
21:46:32  <Mister_Argent> ah.
21:46:34  <ErichEckner> Mister_Argent: yes, it will (propably -> look in the Diagrams at the lowest one)
21:47:09  <Mister_Argent> Okay. just want to make sure i'm not making too big of a mistake by making my only plane fly to a city clear across the map.
21:47:26  <Mister_Argent> (on a 1024*1024 map)
21:47:45  <Mister_Argent> Also, assuming you're turning a profit, is leaving the game running a good or a bad idea?
21:47:45  <ErichEckner> you get paid by distance _and_ travel time (more time, less income)
21:47:48  <glx> that may be a too long distance (time wise)
21:47:51  <Mister_Argent> ah.
21:48:30  <ErichEckner> i think it's better to invest your money
21:48:57  <frosch123> letting the game run unwatched only works if you disable breakdowns (due to vehicle aging), plane crashes and disasters
21:49:02  <Mister_Argent> ah.
21:50:13  <Mister_Argent> Ooookay. i've dived into the red since establishing this airline, so i'm just gonna sell the plane and think on a smaller scale for a bit.
21:50:26  <Mister_Argent> It's pretty clear that my transport company isn't quite ready to handle things on that scale.
21:50:59  <Mister_Argent> "Prefinghill transport will be sold off or declared bankrupt unless performance increases soon!"
21:51:13  <Mister_Argent> ... is it normal to have extreme difficulty for the first five or six games?
21:51:20  <frosch123> airports are quite expensive
21:51:26  <frosch123> they have high maintenance cost
21:51:32  <frosch123> so you need many planes to make them work
21:51:32  <Mister_Argent> yeah. maybe i should just focus on buses or railroads for now.
21:51:39  <ErichEckner> try busses and/or trains
21:51:41  <ErichEckner> jepp
21:51:53  <Mister_Argent> i've got a good bus set up and one ferry.
21:52:03  <glx> coal train is an easy money maker
21:52:16  <Mister_Argent> Okay, back up out of the red.
21:52:42  <Mister_Argent> Since it'll actually cost me money to destroy the airports, i should propably just leave them there until i can support air infrastructure again.
21:52:58  <frosch123> no, they will cost you money even if unused
21:53:07  <Mister_Argent> oh. well then, time to meet Mr. Demolish Tool.
21:53:11  <frosch123> they will likely bankrupt you :p
21:53:16  <Mister_Argent> This is what i've got so far -- any advice?
21:53:34  <Mister_Argent> (the airport is, of course, gone now.)
21:53:51  <glx> wood line is quite short
21:54:12  <Mister_Argent> Yeah. propably could have just used a road for that...
21:54:46  <Mister_Argent> Hmm, there's a coal mine and a power plant adjacent to the town that'd be propably pretty simple to link up.
21:55:18  <ErichEckner> look for something to transport on rails (coal, ore, ...), that doesn't loose value quickly
21:55:30  <Mister_Argent> Yeah. looking at shuttling coal to a power plant right now.
21:55:58  <Mister_Argent> Would rail or road be best for this? Not pictured is a little gap in the river.
21:56:18  <glx> I'd use rail
21:56:25  <Mister_Argent> Yeah. got enough cars as-is.
21:56:26  <ErichEckner> me too
21:56:37  <glx> what is the production of the mine ?
21:56:54  <Mister_Argent> Coal.
21:56:57  <Mister_Argent> the power plant needs coal.
21:57:00  <glx> I now that ;)
21:57:02  <ErichEckner> the amount
21:57:18  <Mister_Argent> 90 tons of coal.
21:57:29  <glx> not a big one
21:57:35  <Mister_Argent> There's a iron mine nearby too. modifying the railroad to link to it would be trivial.
21:57:43  <Mister_Argent> *to continue to it
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21:58:08  <Mister_Argent> Now that i've gotten rid of the aircraft stuff i'm slowly accumulating again.
21:58:13  <ErichEckner> i would link the coal mine 90 tons is enough for the beginning
21:58:29  <glx> yes for a start it's enough
21:58:58  <Mister_Argent> yeah. i intend to expand a bit once i'm accumulating cash a bit faster, so for now it should work.
22:01:39  <Mister_Argent> Is there any way to add words/name parts to the town name generator?
22:01:48  *** Rhamphoryncus [] has joined #openttd
22:02:27  <Mister_Argent> is it like Dwarf Fortress where there's a 'Dictionary' file that you just drop words/etc. into as required?
22:03:38  <frosch123> you can add town names via newgrfs, which is a binary format and needs some kind of compilation
22:03:45  <Mister_Argent> ah.
22:03:47  <ErichEckner> btw: compilation worked fine and since I have downloaded opengfx, openttd even starts ;-)
22:03:48  <frosch123> there are multiple town names available in the content download
22:04:26  <Mister_Argent> hmm, there's a farm near my town but no factory to connect it with...
22:05:29  <frosch123> there should always be at least one factory
22:05:33  <frosch123> on the map
22:05:37  <Mister_Argent> yeah.
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22:11:35  <frosch123> night
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22:11:39  <Mister_Argent> adios
22:11:42  <ErichEckner> cu
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22:20:52  <doppelganger_> hello, I have a quick question: how do I get the oil from the oil wells to the oil refinery?
22:21:07  <doppelganger_> it's been driving me crazy and the wiki isn't helpful at all
22:21:54  <glx> you just transport it
22:22:21  <glx> place a station near oil wells and one near refinery
22:22:30  <doppelganger_> i created a truck station near the refinery, bought an oil truck
22:22:54  <doppelganger_> let me try that
22:23:25  <ErichEckner> upto here your approach sounds good
22:23:38  <doppelganger_> i created a truck station near the wells
22:23:47  <doppelganger_> but in "accept" it says "nothing"
22:24:00  <doppelganger_> the truck station near the refinery is all set though
22:24:00  <ErichEckner> the wells don't accept anything
22:24:09  <ErichEckner> they _deliver_
22:24:29  <doppelganger_> I know, but how do I see if my truck station took the wells into account?
22:24:49  <doppelganger_> by "into account" i mean it's within range of the truck station
22:24:53  <ErichEckner> just give your truck orders and wait
22:25:22  <doppelganger_> do I have to connect the wells to some road or something?
22:25:27  <glx> no
22:25:31  <ErichEckner> then you may click on the wells and see if the oil gets transported (if there are more than one nearby)
22:25:36  <ErichEckner> no
22:25:49  <doppelganger_> ok i'm gonna try that now
22:25:49  <glx> the station area should just cover the wells
22:25:53  <doppelganger_> thanks for your help so far
22:27:14  * Mister_Argent started over. He has 1 oil train and 1 coal train.
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22:29:06  <doppelganger_> seems to be working
22:29:20  <Mister_Argent> Yeah. i'm delivering oil by train from wells to a refinery.
22:31:02  <Mister_Argent> "Can't build truck station... Trudinghall local authority refuses to allow this."
22:31:11  <Mister_Argent> Guess someone doesn't want my business.
22:31:11  <doppelganger_> thanks for your help it's working I can get back to not sleeping and playing this game :)
22:31:23  <glx> Mister_Argent: plant trees
22:31:39  <ErichEckner> glx: this helps?
22:31:42  <glx> town authorities like trees a lot
22:31:44  <Mister_Argent> Can i weaponize my trains at all?
22:31:49  <ErichEckner> .. haven't tried the nice way before ...
22:32:26  <Mister_Argent> Here, Trudinghall City Council. have some random trees so i can take all your money.
22:32:59  <glx> check your rating while planting trees, it should improve
22:33:06  <Mister_Argent> rating?
22:34:07  <ErichEckner> you're right
22:34:15  <Mister_Argent> ....oh, the town is propably mad at me because i blew up a bunch of their existing trees so i could see what i was doing
22:34:32  <ErichEckner> press "x"
22:34:47  <Mister_Argent> ...dang, wish i'd known about that before
22:35:15  <ErichEckner> there's a whole bunch of shortkeys
22:35:23  <Mister_Argent> should propably take a wiki walk
22:35:26  <ErichEckner> (esp. ctrl is heavily used)
22:35:30  <glx>
22:36:09  <Mister_Argent> Is a coal mine that outputs 153 tonnes a month good?
22:36:22  <glx> not bad yes
22:36:47  <Mister_Argent> Ah. i seem to be accumulating cash for now so i'll take a quick wiki walk while my trains and truck do their work.
22:37:08  * Mister_Argent has two trains, one coal and one oil. he also has a single truck sending processed oil to a nearby town.
22:37:33  <Mister_Argent>
22:37:57  <Mister_Argent> (is there a mod that adds Wind farms, solar panels and so on? or is that stuff that's already in and i just have no access to it because it's 1960?)
22:38:04  <glx> this town accepts goods ????
22:38:15  <glx> seems too small for me
22:38:23  <Mister_Argent> ...oh, the depot says just mail. wierd, when i put it down it said goods...
22:38:24  <Mister_Argent> dang.
22:38:25  <ErichEckner> you should think about building diagonal rails
22:38:41  <Mister_Argent> my other train has plenty of 'em, but yeah.
22:38:53  <ErichEckner> speeds up trains factor 2
22:39:21  <glx> or at least longer curves
22:40:47  <Mister_Argent> okay. my oil truck's now driving to the semi-nearby town of plenninghall. it's far enough away that i propably would have been better off using trains, though...
22:40:50  <glx> diagonal rails were a bad thing in multiplayer when you couldn't bridge over them, but now it's ok
22:41:04  <Mister_Argent> Yeah. i'm not ready for multiplayer yet...
22:41:26  <ErichEckner> you may play cooperative in multiplayer ...
22:41:27  <Mister_Argent> I still haven't had a single player game where i have made it more than three years or so
22:41:50  <glx> signals on every tile was not nice either at that time :)
22:41:55  <Mister_Argent> Gonna move on to co-op when i know i won't drag all the other players down with me
22:42:30  <Mister_Argent> is 40 tons of grain/120 items of livestock good for a farm?
22:42:42  <ErichEckner> worth a try
22:42:44  <Mister_Argent> there's one near this town i could link up pretty cheaply.
22:42:57  <glx> low grain, but for cow it's nice
22:43:24  <ErichEckner> you shouldn't only link the shortest routes
22:43:48  <glx> yeah it depends on cargo payment rates
22:44:00  <glx> for coal longer lines are better
22:44:09  <glx> long lines with long trains
22:44:20  <ErichEckner> i like to transport cheap cargo over long distances, so breakdowns won't matter this much
22:44:37  <ErichEckner> and with long trains, of course :-)
22:44:43  <glx> and always have a vehicle loading
22:44:55  <Mister_Argent> i apologize if i come off as a bit 'dumb' with regards to all this, i'm still pretty new and this is a bit of a different sort of game from Dwarf Fortress, in spite of their similarities.
22:45:05  <Mister_Argent> do quite like the game so far, even if i'm no good at it :P
22:45:09  <Mister_Argent> (yet)
22:45:09  <glx> the best is to have a full train leave while an empty one come
22:50:23  <ErichEckner> a new question: I've successfully compiled openttd and got it started (after manually installing some graphic-stuff into bin/baseset), now I've reverted to revision 22553 in order to apply chills patchpack, but now it complains about missing graphics again ...
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22:51:17  <Mister_Argent> "Can't build truck station... Plenninghall local authority refuses to allow this."
22:51:25  <Mister_Argent> The Plenninghall Local Authority can go soak their head.
22:54:22  *** Progman [~progman@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:59:13  <ErichEckner> he also complains about missing generictramset (I had this installed once before), but claims to just ignore it ... :-/
23:02:16  <Mister_Argent> when i make a railroad/road crossing, is all the signal stuff handled automatically?
23:03:48  <ErichEckner> yes
23:03:51  <Mister_Argent> ah.
23:04:05  <ErichEckner> but you should be careful with crossing many rails at once
23:04:41  <ErichEckner> because cars might stop on a rail at a closed crossing
23:06:15  <ErichEckner> i tend to use bridges, since i crashed a bunch of busses this way :-D
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23:27:40  <Mister_Argent> Okey, Plenninghall need to be less stuck up about me putting things in their city
23:28:05  <Mister_Argent> Guess Monfingpool will be my pilot town for the whole bus thing. Plenninghall's loss.
23:32:30  <ErichEckner> it's sometimes annoying, when a city refuses to build bus-stops or stations because you have connected it before via road, bridges, train, etc. and have leveled some land therefor ...
23:32:59  <Mister_Argent> is there a way to weaponize trains? i want to send a train or two crashing through Plenninghall.
23:33:41  <Mister_Argent> of my trains just broke down /in the depot/
23:33:52  <Mister_Argent> in the depot /at a crossing/
23:34:32  <ErichEckner> they always do ;-)
23:34:37  <Mister_Argent> Road vehicle 1's profit last year was -924 / Road Vehicle 4's profit last year was -176 / Road Vehicle 2's profit last year was -924
23:34:54  <Mister_Argent> Road vehicle 3's profit last year was -924
23:35:01  <Mister_Argent> ...maybe i should just stick to trains?
23:36:17  <ErichEckner> dunno
23:36:34  <ErichEckner> cars ar my girlfriends responsibility ...
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