Log for #openttd on 26th June 2012:
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01:35:32  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: rubidium and water explode regardless; I doubt OpenTTD is strong enough to contain said explosion
01:36:56  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: also, I don't see a bug report
01:37:08  <Rubidium> so how are we intended to know?
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05:16:44  <NGC3982>  /w 2
05:16:50  <NGC3982> oops.
05:16:54  <NGC3982> morning
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07:36:17  <Wonszcz> On multi I accidently screwed up someone's train that was 20 squares long and was full of oil.
07:36:44  <Wonszcz> I will die,
07:37:18  <szaman> someone will choke you
07:37:35  <Wonszcz> God damn it, you cannot choke a snake.
07:37:40  <Wonszcz> At least not to death.
07:38:20  <Wonszcz> It can only spit.
07:38:30  <szaman> wolf carried many times, they carried him once
07:38:31  <szaman> :P
07:39:22  <Wonszcz> szaman, I curse you.
07:39:34  <szaman> do you feel train to me? :]
07:39:40  <Wonszcz> No.
07:39:51  <Wonszcz> I will kill you using a bloody altar.
07:40:27  <NGC3982> :(
07:40:29  <Wonszcz> I have a sacrifical knife.
07:40:38  <Wonszcz> Also a lamb.
07:40:45  <Wonszcz> Because little babies are too mainstream.
07:42:24  <Wonszcz> I mean.
07:42:31  <Wonszcz> If I would keep making baby sacrifices.
07:42:39  <Wonszcz> Then the human population would greatly decrease.
07:43:16  <Wonszcz> szaman.
07:43:24  <Wonszcz> I will use you as the sacrifice.
07:44:22  <Wonszcz> Okay I died.
07:44:30  <Wonszcz> A giant 20 square train has ran over me.
07:45:43  <NGC3982> :3
07:45:51  <Wonszcz> Stop smiling.
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07:53:02  <Wonszcz> Damn.
07:54:24  <Wonszcz> My computer apparently loves white text on BSOD
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08:22:59  <szaman> Wonszcz: sorry, switch hanged
08:24:41  <szaman> Wonszcz: population would greatly decrease because of GMO
08:24:49  <szaman> would/will
08:25:50  <NGC3982> eh, wat.
08:40:01  <Terkhen> good morning
08:41:06  <NGC3982> morning TH
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08:56:59  <Eddi|zuHause> the forum seems awfully slow today
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08:58:58  <GBerten2936> it's like..unresponsive
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09:00:17  <NGC3982> works neat around here
09:02:01  <FLHerne> Here, too :P
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09:50:18  <WonszczA> Damn.
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12:15:45  <Belugas> hello
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12:22:56  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: does it still feel slow? it just started to lag for me..
12:23:21  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: haven't noticed anything
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14:55:40  <Wonszcz> Anyone head of Happy Wheels?
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15:36:36  <kopoba> hello is there any way to automaticly run alias when i join to server?
15:40:08  <planetmaker> kopoba: if you play on luukland, you play on hacked servers. Please ask for advise there. We cannot support unreleased custom modifications of OpenTTD
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15:45:53  <kopoba> planetmaker i play with client that i download from here its not official?
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15:50:35  <planetmaker> kopoba: yes. That's the official client. But the servers are hacked. And OpenTTD does not require anywhere any login.
15:51:31  <planetmaker> Thus the login via the chat function is their hack.
15:51:37  <planetmaker> server-side
15:51:42  <kopoba> ok
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15:51:58  <kopoba> how to run alias when i join to server?
15:52:12  <planetmaker> ...
15:52:13  <planetmaker> ask them!
15:52:15  <NGC3982> :D
15:52:25  <planetmaker> most likely: there is no way
15:52:27  <kopoba> they are not developers of opttd
15:52:50  <planetmaker> exactly. But their server fakes to be an official OpenTTD version while it is not.
15:52:56  <planetmaker> We cannot support it
15:53:03  <planetmaker> Ask them about their servers
15:53:14  <planetmaker> They have a custom game. Which is not ours. It just claims to be
15:53:15  <kopoba> i dont ask of support server-side
15:54:03  <planetmaker> ... their servers require actions from the client which OpenTTD DOES NOT SUPPORT
15:54:17  <planetmaker> ask them how to do it
15:54:26  <planetmaker> Our clients support normal servers just fine.
15:54:32  <planetmaker> Normal OpenTTD servers require no login.
15:54:42  <planetmaker> Normal OpenTTD does not even know what alias is
15:54:49  <planetmaker> Thus OpenTTD does not support it
15:55:05  <planetmaker> I also don't know what alias is
15:55:14  <planetmaker> or might be
15:55:18  <kopoba> you wrong
15:55:20  <kopoba> planetmaker
15:55:51  <planetmaker> ehm... you know that that's probably a quite different one?
15:56:14  <kopoba> why?
15:56:15  <kopoba> Create an alias named <name> bound to <command>.
15:57:03  <planetmaker> "You can define aliases ingame or in one of the scripts files" which implies you have ssh to the server
15:57:50  <planetmaker> if you want it in the script file
15:58:08  <kopoba>
15:58:16  <kopoba> nothing about ssh
15:58:52  <kopoba> i need somthing like this but on join the server
15:58:54  <planetmaker> otherwise use and follow the description...
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15:59:07  <planetmaker> the console offers no events
15:59:33  <planetmaker> which "on connect" would imply. You can try to modify your local script...
16:00:09  <kopoba> where can i read more about that scripts
16:00:23  <kopoba> wiki page have too small amount of information
16:01:24  <planetmaker> in the related readme.txt... bin/scripts/readme.txt
16:01:37  <kopoba> ok thanks
16:01:47  <planetmaker> +network scripts:
16:01:47  <planetmaker>    should be used to set client optimization settings:
16:01:47  <planetmaker>  - 'on_client.scr' is executed when you join a server [all clients]
16:02:25  <planetmaker> so there you might be lucky indeed. And ... I (re-)learnt about those scripts :-P
16:02:38  <planetmaker> I guess I should say thank you :-)
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16:06:33  <kopoba> no problems you are welcome =)
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16:33:53  <frosch123> Question of the day: ‮?ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus tneilc CRI ruoy seoD
16:36:30  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your definition of "proper"
16:36:47  <frosch123> well, can you select my line properly?
16:37:37  <Rawh_> Copy/paste is no issue there
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16:37:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i have trouble selecting the D if i don't want to select the start of the next line
16:39:17  <frosch123> my texteditor can not handle it
16:39:38  <frosch123> the text is shown correctly, but i cannot select anything, nor position the cursor
16:39:44  <Eddi|zuHause> if i start at the Q i select until :, and then it starts at the ? and goes backwards
16:40:01  <frosch123> that's how it should be :)
16:40:13  <Eddi|zuHause> if i paste that in the textbox, then i can edit it/move the cursor the same way
16:41:15  <Eddi|zuHause> so, except for the minor annoyance of selecting the "end" of the line, i'd answer with "yes" then
16:41:18  <Rawh> I can just doubleclick any sentence and it copies it all, regardless of what is on the line
16:41:29  <Rawh> 18:51 < Rawh> I can just doubleclick any sentence and it copies it all, regardless of what is on the line
16:41:36  <Rawh> Irssi is nice :)
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16:42:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Rawh: sure, doubleclick selects a word and tripleclick the line. but that wasn't really the point
16:42:42  <frosch123> Rawh: selecting the whole line is boring :)
16:42:51  <Rawh> Works for me :)
16:43:10  <Rawh> Eddi|zuHause: just as easy as ^W deletes a word
16:43:17  <Rawh> I really cannot live without that ability on irc anymore
16:43:23  <Rawh> Makes typing so much faster :P
16:43:37  <frosch123> the other day i tried kde3 kate, upon selecting it reordered the letters so that the selection is connected in one box
16:43:42  <Rawh> I hate word2010 for closing my file with ^W :(
16:43:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i hardly ever need to delete a word...
16:44:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Rawh: that should be configurable...
16:44:19  <frosch123> ctrl+w closes editor tabs in about every editor :)
16:44:38  <frosch123> though i am surprised that word supports it
16:44:50  <frosch123> i would have expected ctrl+f4 or something like that
16:44:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember ever using Ctrl+W anywhere
16:45:24  <frosch123> but, maybe ctrl+f4 is a win 3.11 hotkey :p
16:45:26  <Rawh> ctrl+w closes windows, I use it all the time for the abundance of windows I tend to have open
16:45:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember closing editors with Ctrl+K,Ctrl+D
16:45:39  <Eddi|zuHause> or Ctrl+K,d
16:45:46  * frosch123 still uses joe on console :)
16:45:47  <Rawh> "joe" ! :)
16:45:55  <Rawh> Ctrl-K,X here
16:46:11  <Eddi|zuHause> x is without saving?
16:46:14  <Rawh> Yep
16:46:34  <frosch123> while joe is actually totally broken, it's the console editor i am most used to :p
16:46:35  <Rawh> Most used shortcuts: Ctrl-a,d and Ctrl-a,n
16:46:39  <Eddi|zuHause> it was called "Borland Binary Editor", which my father used.
16:46:48  <frosch123> basically i am used to the bugs :p
16:46:54  <Rawh> I use "joe" over "vi" or "vim" whenever I can :)
16:46:58  <Eddi|zuHause> which he said he got from some pascal 2.0 or so
16:47:22  <Rawh> Even go as far as to export the editor=joe variable outside scripts
16:47:30  <Rawh> Or just put it in .bash_profile when I'm lazy enough
16:47:44  <frosch123> hmm, yeah... borland editors also used ctrl+k stuff
16:47:49  <frosch123> i think i forgot all hotkeys
16:48:03  <Eddi|zuHause> it's derived from starwriter commands, afaik
16:48:19  <frosch123> f2 save, f3 open, ctrl+k+f search, ctrl+k+g replace?
16:48:57  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the important ones are ^K,b and ^K,k for block selection, and ^K,c ^K,v for pasting
16:48:58  <frosch123> f4 debug to line, f7 step, f8 next, f9 run
16:49:01  <Rawh> Thinking about the good old days with WP :)
16:49:24  <Rawh> With the extra piece of paper with commands layed over the F keys :)
16:49:28  <frosch123> ah, kc and kv, yeah, i remember :)
16:50:05  <frosch123> i wonder why all those commands used a k first
16:50:38  <Rawh> Design thing I would say, just like why most windows commands use their own windows key and apple uses their apple key
16:50:50  <Rawh> It's something that they do to stand out against the rest, one might say :)
16:50:58  <frosch123> ctrl+f7 is watch variable i think
16:51:20  <frosch123> what might have been f5 and f6...
16:51:51  <frosch123> hmm, let's start dosbox and check
16:52:19  <Rawh> Hehehe
16:52:32  <frosch123> ctrl+f8 is breakpoint
16:53:01  <frosch123> ctrl+f2 is kill
16:53:27  <frosch123> alt+f5 is show screen
16:53:52  <frosch123> ah f5 and f6 are maximize and next window!
16:54:32  <frosch123> f10 is menu
16:54:49  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: there were other commands
16:54:56  <Eddi|zuHause> there was ^O,p for printing
16:55:17  <Rawh> Which might be related to the alt-o,p now?
16:55:20  <frosch123> i am currently looking at turbo pascal 7
16:55:23  <Rawh> Or simply using the printkey on the keyboard
16:55:25  <Rawh> No idea :)
16:55:28  <frosch123> alt+0 shows a list of window
16:55:35  <Rawh> frosch123: borland delphi or the older versions?
16:55:41  <frosch123> not delphi
16:56:00  <Rawh> I used to learn programming within borland delphi *shudders*
16:56:04  <frosch123> i own borland pascal 7 with bonus disk :)
16:56:26  <frosch123> borland pascal 7 is the thing before delphi 1
16:56:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Rawh: pascal/delphi is a rather good language for learning
16:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i "acquired" pascal 7 in school
16:57:05  <Eddi|zuHause> and later delphi 2
16:57:07  <frosch123> it can compile for dos realtime, dos protected mode and win 3.0
16:57:17  <Eddi|zuHause> and i had delphi 6 somewhen later
16:57:44  <frosch123> i also have delphi 2, it's even a bundle with delphi 1
16:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i made some of my numerics homework with delphi (console application)
16:58:51  <frosch123> hehe, me too :) later i used matlab :p
16:59:32  <Eddi|zuHause> that was when i wasn't familiar with C, and i got bored of Java quickly. then i "met" python :)
17:00:51  <frosch123> ah, my turbo pascal editor has a custom hotkey to run emtex \o/
17:01:39  <Rawh> Eddi|zuHause: I had it mostly for the silly buttons and the code underlying such a button, visual programming they call it these days I believe
17:01:57  <Rawh> Such as "action on press" "action on doubleclick" etc..etc..
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17:02:34  <Rawh> Basic stuff I guess, I'm more of an infrastructure engineering type, not programming :)
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17:17:43  <Wolf01> evening
17:19:13  <frosch123> <- haha, my line breaks the baglog completely
17:19:58  <frosch123> it has a unbalanced-RTL-control-code-injection vulnerability
17:20:36  <frosch123> ‬maybe this fixes it
17:21:32  <frosch123> yup, it does :)
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17:23:10  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't look "fixed" to me
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17:24:36  <Eddi|zuHause> but hovering over the link somewhat tempoarily fixes it
17:28:28  <frosch123> how does not fix it for you?
17:28:50  <frosch123> does the text continue rtl after my pop-rtl-code?
17:28:56  <Eddi|zuHause> the lines don't start with the beginning of the line
17:29:19  <frosch123> yeah, but only between my first rtl line, and the "this fixes it"
17:29:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the time is at the end
17:29:31  <Eddi|zuHause> no, exactly that it does not
17:30:15  <frosch123> it does for me in firefox and in opera
17:30:36  <Eddi|zuHause> "study; financial crises preferrably start in september and in election-years"
17:31:14  <frosch123> kate already cancels the rtl code at the end of the line
17:33:39  <Eddi|zuHause> your end code definitely doesn't work in konqueror
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17:38:46  <frosch123> ottd's in-game text viewer also cancels them after each line
17:45:52  <FLHerne> Is it not possible to have a combined road/tram bridge?
17:46:29  *** devilsadvocate_ is now known as devilsadvocate
17:46:41  <frosch123> it is
17:46:50  <frosch123> build a bridge of any type, then add the other type
17:47:05  <frosch123> use the normal road/tram tool
17:47:15  <frosch123> not sure whether it also works with the bridge tool
17:48:45  <FLHerne> Can't build road here:must demolish bridge first... :-(
17:49:02  <FLHerne> Perhaps I misunderstood your explanation...
17:49:11  <frosch123> first use the bridge tool to build a bridge
17:49:23  <frosch123> then use the normal road/tram tool on the bridgehead to add the other type
17:49:28  <frosch123> same works for tunnels
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17:50:31  <FLHerne> Works on one bridgehead, but not the other :o
17:50:42  <FLHerne> Thanks :-)
17:51:13  <frosch123> it works on both
17:51:20  <frosch123> but you have to click the outside part
17:51:25  <frosch123> like when building a half road
17:51:46  <FLHerne> Ah, alright
17:51:53  <frosch123> though for remove it also works in the inner side :p
17:51:59  <frosch123> seems a bit inconsistent :)
17:52:01  <FLHerne> ...
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18:17:02  <Eddi|zuHause> weird. there is a tiny section of "rainbow" in the sky, but there is no rain
18:17:31  <Eddi|zuHause> and it's also in the wrong place, relative to the sun
18:18:02  *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd
18:18:05  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
18:18:17  <Alberth> oi
18:20:41  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: either aliens, or oil
18:20:57  <frosch123> hai albert
18:21:25  * Alberth prefers aliens
18:22:30  <Alberth> Is there a game script for industry-industry subsidies I can borrow?
18:22:55  <frosch123> today at work i named a method "TurnIntoAliens" :p
18:23:14  <frosch123> ask zuu
18:23:23  <frosch123> i think zuu wrote all gs available, except maybe one
18:24:13  <Alberth> programming an alien game by accident?  :)
18:25:46  <frosch123> no, just the usual trouble with not finding a fitting name for something i can think of, but not describe properly :)
18:27:46  <Alberth> I don't think it survives peer review if I try that :)
18:29:14  <frosch123> oh, it's no totally random name. i can make up reasons to call the stuff "aliens" it deals with :)
18:29:34  <Zuu> frosch123: I only wrote 4 out of 6 on banans :-)
18:29:56  <frosch123> hmm, now that i think about it... maybe "zombies" fits better than "aliens"
18:30:18  <frosch123> wasn't "zombie" the name for stalled tasks which idle and never exit?
18:30:33  <Zuu> but non of them does industry-industry subsidies. I haven't made anything with subsidies yet.
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18:32:47  <Alberth> frosch123: zombie is a dead process
18:32:49  *** Bad_Brett [] has quit []
18:33:29  <Alberth> but at least at Unix, its parent has not read the exit status, so it lingers in the process table
18:34:15  <Alberth> Zuu:  pity, I'll make a trivial one myself then :)
18:35:33  <Zuu> local ind = GSIndustryList(); ind.Valuate(GSBase.RandItem); ind.KeepTop(2);
18:35:55  <Zuu> Then create a subsidie from ind[0] to ind[1]
18:36:07  <Alberth> I don't know how a zombie compares with 'the undead'
18:36:23  <Zuu> Althoug I beleive you cant do ind[0] or ind[1] exactly.
18:36:34  <Alberth> Zuu: perhaps they should have a cargo in common? :)
18:36:39  <Zuu> but ind.Front() and ind.Back() or so should give them.
18:37:02  <Zuu> Alberth: Thats a good requirement :-)
18:37:37  <Alberth> Zuu: can you build OpenTTD from the source?
18:39:07  <frosch123> Alberth: zuu is also a known patch writer :)
18:39:26  * Alberth takes that as a 'yes' :)
18:39:47  <frosch123> maybe he is just good at writing patches without syntax errors :)
18:41:09  <Zuu> Alberth: Yes
18:41:29  <Alberth>
18:41:57  <Alberth> I am playing with a game script extension that allows you to monitor industry-industry deliveries
18:42:44  <Alberth> This code extends OpenTTD in that direction, I need a script for proof of concept :)
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18:43:25  <Alberth> If you are sufficiently bored..... :)
18:46:03  <Alberth> if not, that's fine too
18:46:15  <Zuu> I was bored yesterday. But not so much bored today :-)
18:46:46  <Zuu> Currently I'm reading your patch though to get an idea what it does.
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18:53:08  <Zuu> Alberth: Which svn revision/hg rev is your patch against?
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18:53:57  <Alberth> HEAD
18:54:24  <Alberth> r24358 to be precise
18:55:10  <Alberth> Basically, you construct a 32bit number with industry/company/cargo-type
18:55:31  <Alberth> then give it to monitoring of deliveries or to pickup
18:55:42  <Alberth> then poll regularly for the amount
18:55:53  <Zuu> I think you docummented it quite well in the patch.
18:55:56  <Alberth> each poll will reset the count
18:56:53  <Alberth> yeah, I am somewhat of a doxymentation addict :)
18:57:39  <Alberth> it seemed like a gap in the current functionality
18:58:20  <SpComb> monitor?
18:58:22  <Zuu> Yep, indeed. Currently you cannot see deleveries to end point industries.
18:58:41  * SpComb thinks rrdtool graphs
18:58:41  <Zuu> And for others you have to resort to 'last month production'
18:59:19  <Alberth> SpComb yeah, the thing you're watching, or perhaps you can watch cargo deliveries too :)
19:00:13  <Alberth> yep, but that's not company oriented
19:02:48  <Zuu> Alberth: The convention for Lists in the API is the class that returns a list in the constructor has the suffix "List". Thus ScriptCargoMonitorDeliveries would be ScriptCargoMonitorDeliveryList
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19:07:15  <Bad_Brett> Hey! Is there a FAQ on how to make a music pack (not the midis - the obm-file) ? And is there any way I can set a default music pack in newGRF?
19:07:43  <Alberth> thanks, patch updated
19:08:08  <frosch123> Bad_Brett:
19:08:37  <Zuu> I'm working on a test GS for you now :-)
19:08:41  <frosch123> Alberth: is it possible to extent it for towns?
19:08:50  <frosch123> just lke subsidies
19:09:18  <Bad_Brett> Thanks!
19:09:19  <frosch123> hmm, actually, it also needs some way to detect industry closure to remove stall items
19:09:21  <Alberth> sounds like it is possible :)
19:10:13  <Alberth> frosch123: doesn't matter much, it is a binary tree, so you hardly notice it still being around
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19:10:45  <Alberth> also, the script tracks those things too probably
19:11:44  <Alberth> it'd probably need some hacking in the subsidies so the code can be shared
19:11:57  <frosch123> well, i think the state should also be saved. it's weird if scripts need a month to "boot". and when it is saved, it should clean removed industries
19:12:07  <frosch123> or it will return weird stuf when the industry id is reassigned
19:12:34  <Alberth> frosch123: my idea was that the script reads all data on save
19:12:58  <frosch123> isn't that quite hard for the script?
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19:13:07  <frosch123> then it has to process everything during autosave
19:13:20  <Alberth> and re-initializes the monitored items on reload
19:13:22  <frosch123> as the stuff is lost once queried
19:13:33  <frosch123> and scripts have very limited instructions in the save method
19:13:58  <Alberth> fair point, needs being looked at then
19:14:14  <Alberth> maybe generalize subsidies instead?
19:14:34  <frosch123> it would also be inconsistent, since everything else (like town grow goals, or even texts in the town gui) is saved
19:14:35  <Alberth> (or also)
19:15:01  <frosch123> Alberth: you mean a pool item for every connection?
19:15:17  <frosch123> sounds a bit cargodest-ish
19:15:25  <Alberth> we have a pool for subsidies?
19:15:51  <frosch123> sure, what else?
19:16:00  <frosch123> though i think it is quite limited in size
19:16:16  <frosch123> 256 items only :)
19:16:20  <frosch123> quite a lot actually
19:16:36  <Alberth> well, it seems a bit stupid to have subsidies and cargo monitoring which mostly do the same sort of thing, but are separate things
19:16:59  <Alberth> 256 sounds like sufficient to me
19:17:06  <frosch123> subsidies only monitor the connection of a single cargo between two specific objects
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19:17:20  <frosch123> while you seem to monitor everything for a destination
19:17:23  <frosch123> don't you?
19:17:37  <Alberth> my code also monitors only what the script says it should monitor
19:18:12  <Alberth> only particular combinations of industry/company/cargo-type
19:18:25  <frosch123> hmm, well, if the script wants to monitor a single cargo between a single source and a single industry, then subsidies are similiar
19:18:40  <Alberth> ieg all coal you bring to the Foo power plant
19:18:51  <frosch123> but, if it wants to monitor all supplies for a industry, or all destinations for a industry it would have to spawn douzen such subsidies
19:18:53  <frosch123> to monitor them all
19:19:10  <frosch123> and it would also have to constantly spawn new ones for new industries
19:19:14  <Alberth> euhm, at most 5 :)
19:19:33  <frosch123> [21:29] <Alberth> ieg all coal you bring to the Foo power plant <- but subsidies do not count "all coal"
19:19:44  <frosch123> they only count coal from a single specific source
19:19:57  <frosch123> unless you add a special value for "any source"
19:20:03  <frosch123> but then you cannot tell from which in the script
19:20:47  <frosch123> so, i think your stuff is quite different from subsidies
19:21:22  <Alberth> you may be right, I have to check it
19:22:37  <Alberth> ok, the patch just exploded in complexity, as usual :)
19:23:06  <frosch123> sorry :)
19:23:20  <Alberth> oh, np, it only gets better :)
19:26:59  <planetmaker> hello
19:27:15  <frosch123> hi pm :)
19:27:37  <planetmaker> Bad_Brett: music is not newgrf-able iirc
19:27:41  <planetmaker> only sound is
19:29:07  <frosch123> you can add ambient sounds :)
19:29:27  <frosch123> though likely not very useful for music
19:32:50  <Eddi|zuHause> the maximum file size is probably too low
19:33:41  <frosch123> 2 GB wave data is also many hours
19:34:11  <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't it something like 64k?
19:34:11  <frosch123> the problem is more that you have no real checks whether it is running, or whether you have to start it or smiliar
19:34:19  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: grf container 2
19:34:21  <planetmaker> Bad_Brett: 'best' documentation probably is openmsx for the obm file format. Though... I recall having some doc somewhere. But I don't recall. Did you check readmes and related documentation of openttd?
19:34:49  <frosch123> planetmaker: i linked that one already
19:35:08  <planetmaker> openmsx? sorry, I skipped some backlog :-)
19:35:17  <frosch123> no, the readme :)
19:35:21  <planetmaker> :-)
19:36:18  <frosch123> so, do your osx irc client and browser handle bidirectional text properly? :p
19:36:52  <planetmaker> I didn't find the line which you referred to. Can you give time?
19:37:53  <frosch123> <- you might find it easier in there
19:38:07  <frosch123> select my question of the day
19:38:34  <planetmaker> 21:32 frosch123: [18:44:14] Question of the day: ?ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus tneilc CRI ruoy seoD
19:39:01  <planetmaker> hm... the visible is different from what is pasted from what is sent and received ;-)
19:39:02  <frosch123> at least your paste stripped them
19:39:31  <frosch123> ah, so you saw it correctly, but the paste removed the control codes? :)
19:39:33  <planetmaker> In my input view it looked right. In the backlog it looked like "Does the" as last part and here... strange
19:40:14  <frosch123> what does your browser do with the log?
19:40:22  <Terkhen> good night
19:40:23  <frosch123> does it cancel the rtl at the end of th eline
19:40:31  <Alberth> good night Terkhen
19:40:46  <frosch123> or is everything reversed from 18:33:53 till 19:21:32 ?
19:40:51  <planetmaker> FF13 does show a normal English question
19:41:02  <planetmaker> a completely normal line
19:41:20  <frosch123> planetmaker: select part of the line :)
19:41:27  <planetmaker> »» 18:33:53 < frosch123> Question of the day: ?ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus tneilc CRI ruoy seoD
19:41:33  <planetmaker> :-)
19:41:46  <frosch123> that paste stripped the control codes again :)
19:41:50  <planetmaker> yup
19:42:34  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: fyi, that's how it looks in my browser:
19:42:47  <planetmaker> ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus
19:42:51  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: and it doesn't stop at your "that fixed it" line
19:42:53  <planetmaker> like part of it :-)
19:43:08  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that's also completely different to mine
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19:44:07  <glx> 18:33:53 < frosch123> Question of the day: ‮?ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus tneilc CRI ruoy seoD
19:44:27  <glx> copy paste works for me
19:44:55  <frosch123> <- that's what firefox and opera display for me
19:45:00  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: what i find the most interesting is that it puts interpunctation at the beginning of the line, and the rest normal
19:45:01  <frosch123> which i think is correct
19:45:17  <planetmaker> <-- you see that I really wondered what you meant :-) I guess the answer is 'yes' to your question
19:45:35  <frosch123> i used the force-RTL-independent-of-char-origin code
19:46:43  <glx> I see exactly like planetmaker
19:47:38  <frosch123> <- that's the selection behaviour
19:47:44  <frosch123> start from left, then jump to the right
19:48:49  <frosch123> so for both pm and glx, the browser cancels the rtl at the end of the line
19:49:13  <planetmaker> probably same browser ;-)
19:49:19  <frosch123> which also do some of my editors and ottd, but not my browsers :p
19:49:40  <Zuu> Alberth: Oh, my test GS makes OpenTTD hang. somehow the CallStack only shows dll files for some reason...
19:49:47  <Eddi|zuHause> what's "end of the line" for a browser?
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19:49:59  <Eddi|zuHause> a </p> or <br/> tag?
19:50:09  <glx> firefox 14 for me
19:50:18  <planetmaker> hm, 13.0.1
19:50:21  <Eddi|zuHause> html is supposed to ignore whitespace
19:50:24  <frosch123> <- btw. in that case the rtl continues until 19:20:36, where i inserted at pop-code
19:50:26  <glx> (beta)
19:50:27  <Alberth> Zuu:  :(
19:51:44  <Zuu> Tries with a debug build instead. The hang happen during world generation. Probably at the phase when script get to run before the game starts. So its not like I need to run lots of time with the GS to prodece it.
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19:53:43  <planetmaker> frosch123: now, that looks interesting ;-)
19:54:22  <Zuu> Alberth: EncodeMonitor keeps calling itself.
19:54:23  <frosch123> planetmaker: the behaviour of kde3 kate was also quite interesting
19:54:44  <Zuu> You have two EncodeMonitor functions and the one that get called by the GS calls itself instead of the other one.
19:55:08  <planetmaker> what is that like, frosch123?
19:55:26  <Alberth> Oh, interesting :)
19:55:49  <Zuu> That is what it looks like. I'll try again with a break point to catch it before the stack has overflown :-)
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19:56:22  <Zuu> Yep, its calling itself in an infinite loop
19:56:33  <Alberth> Zuu:  add "::" to force it to use the global function
19:56:33  <frosch123> when selecting "day: properly?" it would reorder the text and show "[start of selection]day: properly?[end of selection]Does your IRC client support bidirection text"
19:57:07  <frosch123> i.e. it splits the rtl text in the middle and moves the stuff on the right so that the selection is a continuous block
19:57:19  <frosch123> kde4 kate does not behave like that, nor any other software i tried :)
19:57:29  <Alberth> Zuu:  return ::EncodeMonitor(industry_id, company, cargo);
19:58:40  <planetmaker> that must look weired :-)
19:59:06  <Zuu> Alberth: Yep that fixes it. Now I need to hunt more bugs in my own code. :-)
19:59:29  <frosch123> yeah, but it allows continous selection without these off-points between rtl/ltr text where the selection jumps to something totally different
19:59:41  <frosch123> so, i wondered whether it was intentional :)
19:59:57  <frosch123> but it was also confusing since the text was moving all the time :p
20:13:24  <michi_cc> frosch123: You RTL text is interesting in my xchat :) I see it properly, and if I copy the *whole* line I get I including the control code. If I select inside the reversed area, the selection still moves left to right, but the selected characters are shown and copied in the physical order.
20:14:25  <frosch123> good point, that's also the case for me
20:14:53  <frosch123> so, force-direction codes are actually weird to handle
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20:15:37  <Zuu> Alberth:
20:15:48  <frosch123> i wondered whether those codes could be used to write numbers correctly
20:15:56  <frosch123> i.e. rtl
20:16:01  <Zuu> It does not display any delivery/pickup > 0 even if I pickup/deliver
20:16:19  <Zuu> pickup/delivery is displayed in the AI/GS debug window
20:16:41  <Zuu> It creates a Subsidy between the two industries that it monitors for each cargo that it monitors.
20:16:54  <Zuu> It only monitors pickup at the source industry and delivery at the target industry.
20:17:26  <Zuu> Maybe I should check one time more that pickup/delivery is not mixed up somewhere :-)
20:19:30  <Alberth> looking good at first sight
20:19:33  <Alberth> thanks
20:19:55  <Alberth> now I have to fix my patch with respect to  the new ideas :)
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20:20:46  <Zuu> Hmm, it does actually now show up.
20:21:41  <Zuu> At the time of delivery, it shows both delivery + pickup and the same value.
20:21:47  <Alberth> pickup  administration is handled during delivery
20:22:13  <Alberth> otherwise you get all kinds of corner cases with feeder stations etc
20:22:20  <michi_cc> frosch123: Which control code did you use? There's at least two types I can see.
20:22:45  <Alberth> or possibly even round-trip delivery to the originating station for another pick-up :)
20:23:55  <frosch123> michi_cc: "start of right-to-left override" and later "pop directional formatting"
20:24:43  <Alberth> Zuu: the idea was not to use it for monitoring subsidies, but only servicing of some single industry
20:24:58  <Alberth> ie "get 500 coal from X mine
20:25:18  <Alberth> or "bring X tonnes stuff to industry Y"
20:25:22  <Zuu> I realized this. Its sort of redundant to monitor both source and dest side and you have no idea that it was transported between thoes industries.
20:25:38  <Zuu> The Subsity in this GS is more for visualization of which industries that it monitors.
20:25:57  <michi_cc> There's also right-to-left embedding, but I don't really see the difference. Third is the RTL mark, but that seems to be more like local modification for e.g. punctuation.
20:26:13  <Zuu> A cheap way to create a news item which is clickable and have all details in it. :-)
20:26:14  * Alberth nods
20:26:39  <frosch123> michi_cc: the other marks to not force rtl for latin characters for me
20:27:43  <frosch123> though the embedding thing still messes with selections :)
20:29:02  <Zuu> Alberth: <--- displays more details in the Monitor() function. But perhaps you are familar enough with Squirrel to modify the Monitor() function to get out the details that you need.
20:29:31  <Zuu> Note that you shouldn't have both 1 and 1b in OpenTTD search path at the same time as both register as version 1.
20:29:44  <Alberth> ok :)
20:29:49  <Zuu> At least you shouldn't do that if you want to predict which one it takes. :-)
20:30:21  <Alberth> yeah, I sort of copy/paste stuff until it works, and with some educated guesses, I usually get it working
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20:30:55  <Alberth> I cannot really be bothered to really study squirrel :p
20:30:56  <Zuu> 1b monitor and display both pickup and delivery at both industries.
20:32:06  <Alberth> hmm, 3,3k wood at a feeder station does not look good :)
20:32:47  <Alberth> Zuu: I'll have a look, and will figure it out. thanks for your efforts. I'll let you know when I have news
20:32:59  <Zuu> Great
20:34:23  <Alberth> oh, the other side of the water also has 3k wood in storage :)
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20:35:01  <Alberth> let's do that another day :)
20:35:04  <Alberth> good night all
20:35:15  <frosch123> night albert
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20:43:36  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:51:15  <frosch123> night
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