Log for #openttd on 8th July 2012:
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06:28:22  <Ammler> yeah, we should sometimes fix the compiler to handle the new size of grfs :-/
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07:03:23  <SpiderChord> Hi, I'm having issues with getting 1.2.1 installed on my computer(Ubuntu linux).
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07:17:10  <Alberth> hi hi
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08:39:31  <Terkhen> good morning
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09:00:15  <planetmaker> moin
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09:07:31  <Wolf01> 'morning
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10:03:17  <Hyronymus> hello guys
10:03:22  <Hyronymus> question about devzone repository
10:03:53  <Hyronymus> I believe I succesfully commited a new set of files to my Dutch Town Names repo
10:04:03  <Hyronymus>
10:04:12  <Hyronymus> except I don't see them there :s
10:04:31  <planetmaker> commit != push
10:04:38  <Hyronymus> right
10:04:40  <Hyronymus> :p
10:04:43  <planetmaker> did you also push your new commit to the repo? :-)
10:04:47  <Hyronymus> no
10:04:50  <planetmaker> :-)
10:05:42  <Hyronymus> now I did
10:05:46  <Hyronymus> then commit?
10:06:20  <planetmaker> the order "first commit, then push" is quite ok. Now the devzone repo is updated
10:06:26  <Hyronymus> k
10:06:37  <Hyronymus> you may need the new version, planetmaker
10:07:06  <Hyronymus> no big change, just ran into an existing GRF ID when I tried uploading it to Bananas
10:07:15  <Hyronymus> really silly
10:07:45  <planetmaker> well, yeah. Indeed better keep them unique :-)
10:08:42  <Hyronymus> thx for the help
10:08:55  <Hyronymus> when I'm 80 I'll get the hang of it
10:08:57  <planetmaker> btw, Hyronymus: while a townname newgrf certainly doesn't "need" grf v8... you probably do not loose much, if you use it nevertheless. After all, not many will play earlier versions (just if you feel lazy there: don't feel bad about it :-) )
10:09:04  <planetmaker> no problem, my pleasure
10:09:30  <Hyronymus> well, it's something to put in my thread
10:09:58  <planetmaker> yes, possibly. Does the readme supply a list of all possible names? :-)
10:12:01  <Hyronymus> what readme?
10:12:15  <Hyronymus> Hmm, I can make one easily
10:13:03  <planetmaker> hehe :-P
10:13:12  <planetmaker> the one which people can look at. E.g. ingame :-)
10:14:12  <Hyronymus> yeah, didn't think about that new feature
10:14:25  <Hyronymus> are there special requirements for the makeup
10:14:41  <planetmaker> there's no markup. Just a plain text file, utf-8 encoded
10:14:59  <planetmaker> you can make use of spaces as they're displayed using a mono font
10:15:09  <planetmaker> so that things align nicely
10:15:12  <Hyronymus> k
10:16:27  <Hyronymus> is there multi language support for readme's?
10:16:35  <Alberth> yes
10:16:41  <Hyronymus> Damned
10:16:43  <Hyronymus> :P
10:17:00  <Alberth> but I am not entirely sure about the details
10:17:07  <Hyronymus> good \o/
10:17:27  <Alberth> I think the readme can have a language extension
10:17:41  <planetmaker> might be, yes
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10:18:00  <frosch123> yeah, but i think bananas does not support it
10:18:36  <planetmaker> <-- if you need an idea of what could go there, Hyronymus. Ignore section 5 though
10:18:56  * Alberth wonders where to find the details
10:19:07  <Alberth> (other than in the code :p )
10:19:23  <Hyronymus> thx
10:19:29  <planetmaker> But... don't have a release depend on it :-) Rather release without than ponder to long on this. You can, after all, always release a new, updated version :-)
10:19:42  <planetmaker> *too long
10:20:04  <Hyronymus> and ptxt is supported by Bananas
10:20:20  <Hyronymus> zip is already up on the forums
10:20:46  <Hyronymus>
10:20:59  <frosch123> Alberth: the bananas tos describe the filenames for untranslated stuff
10:21:08  <frosch123> for translated stuff it is likely only in the source
10:21:51  <planetmaker> Hyronymus: no, it must be .txt
10:22:02  <frosch123> it's readme.txt, readme_nl.txt
10:22:10  <planetmaker> the .ptxt is... just because I replace a few words in it by a script
10:22:31  <Hyronymus> I see, the GRF ID
10:22:36  <planetmaker> yup
10:23:08  <Hyronymus> German is _de?
10:23:27  <frosch123> readme_de.txt, readme_de_DE.txt, readme_de_CH.txt ...
10:23:27  <planetmaker> yep
10:24:09  <frosch123> though ottd has no de_CH
10:24:44  <planetmaker> nor actually de_AT
10:25:17  <frosch123> yeah, i guess we have only country codes for en and pt
10:25:36  <planetmaker> or de_BE or de_LU
10:25:47  <planetmaker> oh, we have for portuguise
10:25:54  <planetmaker> and chinese and norwegian
10:26:03  <Hyronymus> but just _de will do?
10:26:05  <frosch123> norwegian differs in the first code
10:26:06  <planetmaker> yup
10:26:12  <Hyronymus> k
10:26:15  <planetmaker> oh, ok. Norwegian then maybe not :-)
10:26:45  <frosch123> Hyronymus: if the locale is de_DE, it first checks for a readme_de_DE.txt, then readme_de.txt and finally readme.txt
10:26:50  <planetmaker> what is pt?
10:26:56  <frosch123> portuguise
10:26:56  <planetmaker> portugual... he :-P
10:27:15  <frosch123> pt_PT and pt_BR
10:27:18  <Hyronymus> quite a sequence :P
10:27:36  <frosch123> norwegian is nb_NO and nn_NO
10:28:16  <planetmaker> oh, the other way :-)
10:28:57  <frosch123> yeah, like de_CH, fr_CH, it_CH, gsw_CH :p
10:29:21  <frosch123> but well, we do not even have nl_BE
10:30:07  <planetmaker> :-)
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10:30:25  <planetmaker> fr_CH, fr_BE, fr_CA, ... :-P
10:30:45  <frosch123> i wonder what country is the smallest one with the most languages
10:30:51  <frosch123> maybe LUX ?
10:31:48  <planetmaker> you mean languages per inhabitant?
10:31:58  <frosch123> kind of :p
10:32:13  <planetmaker> your criterion is... ambiguous at best otherwise ;-)
10:32:39  <frosch123> well, let's say "official languages per inhabitant"
10:32:57  <frosch123> not "average number of languages spoken by inhabitant"
10:33:05  <frosch123> though that might be interesting as well
10:33:46  <frosch123> "average number of languages understood by inhabitants" would likely be something around india
10:34:01  <frosch123> lots of similar but different languages
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10:35:35  <frosch123> unless we also accept german accents :)
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10:36:02  <Hyronymus> can you provide url's in a readme and will they work upon clicking?
10:36:10  <frosch123> no
10:36:18  <frosch123> but you can provide a url in the grf details
10:36:23  <Hyronymus> I don't think adding 4.256 names in readme is worth the lines
10:36:25  <frosch123> (even a localised one)
10:36:40  <planetmaker> Hyronymus: in the grf block you can provide the URL
10:36:52  <Hyronymus> k
10:37:10  <planetmaker>
10:37:46  <Hyronymus> btw, 	min_compatible_version : 8; is correct?
10:38:20  <planetmaker> nope
10:38:30  <planetmaker> that's the version you attribute to your newgrf yourself
10:38:40  <planetmaker> dunno what version you're at currently. Maybe 1? Or two?
10:38:58  <planetmaker> in the version: XXX line of the grf block
10:39:04  <Hyronymus> k, v2 then
10:39:11  <planetmaker> it's no openttd, no language, no whatever version. But just numeric
10:39:17  <Hyronymus> I think I spotted a typo in the link you gave planetmaker
10:39:25  <Hyronymus> shouldn't [url: <string>; beclosed with a ]
10:39:27  <planetmaker> fix it :-)
10:40:05  <planetmaker> I guess it should... there should be more such paranthesis.
10:40:23  * planetmaker tries to fix it
10:40:35  <Hyronymus> k
10:42:52  <planetmaker> done, thanks
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10:46:43  <Hyronymus> planetmaker: you did the German translation of the lng last time, right
10:47:52  <planetmaker> possibly I did :-)
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10:48:08  <planetmaker> Does it need a new translation?
10:48:15  <planetmaker> or an update?
10:48:24  <Alberth> or both :)
10:49:08  <Hyronymus> translation needed for the readme
10:50:30  <planetmaker> Oh... Ok, let's do that :-)
10:50:37  <planetmaker> Did you push the English one?
10:50:45  <planetmaker> *commit & push?
10:51:01  <Hyronymus> no, doing a last check
10:52:16  <planetmaker> k :-)
10:53:22  <Hyronymus> it's up
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10:54:34  <planetmaker> ok, give me a few minutes for translation and pushing it to the repo, Hyronymus
10:54:42  <Hyronymus> no problem
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10:56:48  <Hyronymus> nmlc: "dtnames.nml", line 17: Syntax error, unexpected token "["
11:00:49  <frosch123> [ blabla ] means the blabla is optional
11:00:56  <frosch123> the [ ] do not belong to the syntax
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11:02:23  <Hyronymus> yeah
11:02:36  <Hyronymus> I have to make it a string
11:04:36  <frosch123> yeah, it is also translatable. if you have a translated website, you can specify different urls
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11:04:56  <Hyronymus> neat
11:05:13  <planetmaker> Hyronymus: I've translated it. Shall I commit and push, or do you want to do that?
11:05:38  <planetmaker>
11:05:39  <Hyronymus> be my guest
11:06:13  <Hyronymus> super
11:06:58  <planetmaker> done. Now you need to pull
11:09:46  <Hyronymus> \o/ URL works
11:10:02  <planetmaker> :-)
11:10:33  <Hyronymus> readme works too
11:10:51  <planetmaker> for bananas you'd need to zip all, the *.grf, the readme*.txt into a zip and upload that
11:10:59  <Hyronymus> nÃŒr mal versuchem auf Deutsch
11:11:14  <planetmaker> s/nÃŒr/nun/ :-)
11:11:52  <planetmaker> I find the most troublesome version to check for me is Arabic or similar
11:12:03  <Hyronymus> auch gut
11:12:09  <Hyronymus> lol
11:12:10  <planetmaker> (any rtl language) ;-) Pefect!
11:12:21  <planetmaker> +r
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11:12:49  <Hyronymus> ok, going to provide the Dutch translation now and then all up to Bananas
11:12:59  <planetmaker> :-) Nice, thanks :-)
11:13:18  <planetmaker> I really like to provide theme-style maps. And... that was a missing element :-)
11:13:39  <Hyronymus> and you know, I never saw your post of June 21st until today
11:14:29  <planetmaker> that was FooBar :-)
11:14:41  <planetmaker> he actually pointed me to the thread
11:15:05  <planetmaker> and "complained" that his nudge resulted in no action or reply ;-)
11:15:59  <Hyronymus> I feel guilty
11:16:08  <planetmaker> don't. Shit happens.
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11:16:27  <planetmaker> it's easy to miss a single posting
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11:25:26  <Hyronymus> you mind if I changte StÀdte- to Orts-, planetmaker
11:25:54  <planetmaker> I don't mind.
11:26:05  <planetmaker> though... depends. Where?
11:26:23  <Hyronymus> in your translated readme
11:27:21  <planetmaker> well, yes :-P. You mean everywhere?
11:27:32  <planetmaker> is any of that not a town?
11:27:41  <Hyronymus> quite
11:27:53  <Hyronymus> most names are from a villages
11:28:03  <Hyronymus> with a minortiy of pesseants :p
11:28:13  <Hyronymus> geez, my spelling is off today
11:28:34  <planetmaker> StÀdteliste -> Ortsliste (line 33) sounds a bit odd. All other places it sounds ok.
11:28:45  <planetmaker> *sounds ok when replaced
11:29:18  <Hyronymus> hmm
11:29:20  <planetmaker> hm...
11:29:25  <Hyronymus> :D
11:29:29  <planetmaker> then the first sentence sounds odd, too
11:29:46  <Hyronymus> yeah, but Ort is more true than Stadt
11:30:15  <Hyronymus> and if you find that odd, how about OrtsbÃŒcher
11:30:20  <Hyronymus> :D
11:30:45  <planetmaker> Should then read "Dieses NewGRF stellt 4256 niederlÀndische Ortsnamen jedweder Größe zur VerfÃŒgung". "OrtsbÃŒcher" is not a word I heart or read until today
11:31:11  <__ln__> *heard
11:31:21  <__ln__> good morning
11:31:42  <Alberth> but a language is always evolving :)
11:31:51  <Hyronymus> must be a genealogical thing then
11:32:28  <planetmaker> also not in that context. Those are possibly "Kirchenbuch" or similar. Or modern "Melderegister"
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11:33:23  <Hyronymus> anyhow, the full paragraph then becomes:
11:33:24  <planetmaker> If you don't like it called "Stadt" let me revise it and commit an update
11:33:27  <Hyronymus> Dieses NewGRF stellt 4256 niederlÀndische Ortsnamen jedweder Größe zur VerfÃŒgung.
11:33:29  <Hyronymus> Namen großer Orte haben bei der Erstellung einer neuen Karte eine größere
11:33:30  <Hyronymus> Wahrscheinlichkeit, gewÀhlt zu werden.
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11:34:08  <Hyronymus> (sidetrack:
11:34:26  <Hyronymus> planetmaker: feel free to commit a new version
11:35:57  <planetmaker> Hyronymus: do you have committed something which you did not yet push?
11:36:16  <Hyronymus> nope
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11:39:15  <planetmaker> there you go, updated
11:40:00  <Hyronymus> ty
11:41:44  <Hyronymus> is the German translation of the GPL licence legal btw
11:41:53  <Hyronymus> I just read that the official Dutch translation isn't
11:42:03  <planetmaker> No, it's not. But I say that in the last sentence there :-)
11:42:17  <planetmaker> Or try to.
11:42:42  <Hyronymus> lol
11:42:44  <planetmaker> Maybe it's not clear enough
11:43:07  <Hyronymus> let me push things
11:43:15  <Sacro> \o/
11:43:22  <Rubidium> I wouldn't burn my fingers on translated licenses
11:44:10  <planetmaker> Rubidium: just the short text that it's GPL. Not the license itself
11:45:03  <planetmaker> Basically the statement that the programme *is* GPL v2 and that the user should have gotten a license along with the programme. It's not a translation of the license
11:45:04  <Hyronymus> oh, that's a clear difference indeed
11:54:07  <Hyronymus> boohoo
11:54:31  <Hyronymus> unknow file in pack: readme_de.txt
11:55:29  * Hyronymus kicks planetmaker
11:55:36  <planetmaker> outch
11:56:00  <planetmaker> might well be that bananananannaas doesn't yet like those translated readmes
11:56:13  * Hyronymus kicks Rubidium
11:56:44  <planetmaker> won't help. At least not quickly
11:56:49  <Hyronymus> lol
11:56:52  <planetmaker> Just supply it without translated readmes
11:57:10  <Hyronymus> I will
11:57:18  <planetmaker> They're not lost. But... just not yet supported on bananas. Only by openttd ;-)
11:58:03  <Hyronymus> It's on Bananas nnow though
11:58:05  <Hyronymus> \o/
11:58:11  <planetmaker> \o/
12:02:48  <Chris_Booth> \0
12:05:34  <Hyronymus> 0//
12:05:45  <Hyronymus> ~0~
12:12:39  <NGC3982> ah.
12:12:45  <NGC3982> yes, the chain of command episode
12:13:01  * NGC3982 just saw what critics claim to be the best star trek episode ever.
12:13:04  <NGC3982> i must say, i agree.
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12:24:09  <TomyLobo> is there some newgrf that adds drive-through depots?
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12:33:34  <planetmaker> no
12:33:41  <planetmaker> that's not newgrf-able
12:36:24  <TomyLobo> too bad
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12:38:48  <planetmaker> hi hi andythenorth :-)
12:38:59  <andythenorth> bonjour]
12:39:43  <andythenorth> anyone got suggestions that would inspire me to play the game?
12:39:52  <andythenorth> I tried playing yesterday and found I had zero interest
12:39:57  <andythenorth> kind of sad
12:40:01  <planetmaker> :-(
12:40:30  <NGC3982> andythenorth: make something new.
12:40:35  <NGC3982> or simply stop play for some time
12:40:37  <frosch123> andythenorth: maybe play without any grfs at all, to rediscover the contrast
12:40:48  <NGC3982> my time spent in openttd is somewhat of a sinus formed process.
12:40:52  <Alberth> what bothered you in particular?
12:41:00  <andythenorth> didn't like the map
12:41:05  <andythenorth> didn't like FIRS, too many industries
12:41:10  <andythenorth> didn't like the distribution of industries
12:41:22  <andythenorth> no goal or purpose
12:41:30  <andythenorth> couldn't be bothered to decide where to start
12:41:31  * Alberth is working on that :p
12:43:29  <frosch123> andythenorth: also play arctic or tropic
12:43:46  <frosch123> arctic mountainious, with low variety
12:44:11  <andythenorth> what map size?
12:44:30  <frosch123> 128x256, something which you can finish fast
12:44:36  <frosch123> default industries, high number
12:44:40  <andythenorth> what is 'finish' please? :)
12:44:50  <frosch123> all primary industries > 70%
12:45:10  <frosch123> all towns connected
12:45:30  <andythenorth> goals!
12:47:03  * andythenorth wanted a YACD game
12:48:36  <frosch123> anyway, don't play with any of your grfs. play with some where you can complain to others
12:49:40  * andythenorth wants to play canadian set
12:49:42  <andythenorth> meh
12:50:48  <NGC3982> andythenorth: 64x64 is fantasticly fun for a few hours play.
12:51:24  <planetmaker> andythenorth: try Dutch
12:51:41  <frosch123> on 64x64 you should set all borders to land though, else it's really only one hour of play
12:52:05  <NGC3982> indeed
12:57:27  <andythenorth> hm
12:57:30  <andythenorth> one hour GS
12:57:50  * andythenorth wonders if GS can measure elapsed time (allowing for pause etc)
12:57:54  <andythenorth> system clock?
12:58:11  <frosch123> i think gs can access the system clock
12:58:24  <andythenorth> could be the missing challenge :)
12:58:32  <frosch123> they can also pause the game, while still running themelf
12:58:50  <Alberth> if you can build during pause, pause has little meaning :p
12:59:04  <frosch123> gs can change the settings
13:03:51  <andythenorth> no build during pause :)
13:04:05  <andythenorth> deliver 1,000t to Funtown within 1 hour
13:04:06  <andythenorth> etc
13:06:29  <planetmaker> like that, yes
13:08:56  <andythenorth> far more achievable than a big elaborate scenario over hundreds of years
13:09:35  <NGC3982> hm, i fail to find anything on this, but do the FIRS industry set (by default) close industries at all?
13:10:02  <andythenorth> what does the ingame readme say about it?
13:10:20  <NGC3982> let's see
13:10:27  <NGC3982> oh, i can access it in the game
13:10:28  <NGC3982> neat
13:11:45  <planetmaker> :-)
13:12:10  <NGC3982> ah, there we are. "industries won't close unless closure is enabled by parameter".
13:12:18  <NGC3982> i didnt actually know about the readme button.
13:12:49  <TomyLobo> is there any option to allow multiple airports per station?
13:13:08  <frosch123> no
13:13:09  <NGC3982> TomyLobo: last time i checked, not without a patch.
13:13:22  <frosch123> there is not even a patch for that :p
13:13:37  <NGC3982> last time i asked, there was?
13:13:57  <NGC3982> i was on this subject some months ago, afaik.
13:13:57  <frosch123> i doubt that
13:14:17  <andythenorth> might be newairports you're thinking of?
13:14:27  <frosch123> maybe you confuse someone saying "it can't be that hard" with "i have a patch for it"
13:14:31  <TomyLobo> my intercontinental airport is getting crowded :D
13:14:40  <NGC3982> frosch123: i guess. :-)
13:14:40  <TomyLobo> with both passengers and planes
13:18:28  <andythenorth> maybe the game needs a 'war' layer of gameplay :)
13:18:35  <NGC3982> :D
13:18:48  <andythenorth> most things can be blown up already
13:19:34  <andythenorth> ho, could we have warcraft 1 style 'fog of war'
13:19:40  <andythenorth> maybe without the war
13:19:45  <andythenorth> you have to found your hq
13:19:53  <andythenorth> then you only get to see the map as you build routes
13:20:20  * Alberth sprinkles tracks all over the map
13:20:36  <andythenorth>
13:21:12  * andythenorth -> diy store, chores
13:21:45  <NGC3982> ooh
13:21:51  <NGC3982> fog of war in openttd would be awesome.
13:21:51  <NGC3982> :D
13:21:55  <NGC3982> ..and a bit hard.
13:22:15  <andythenorth> you have to build signal boxes and such to get visibility
13:22:17  <Alberth> warcraft was still nice, it removed enemies that you could not see :p
13:22:23  <NGC3982> andythenorth: ;)
13:22:32  <TomyLobo> fog of war without war?
13:22:44  <NGC3982> mustard gas.
13:22:55  <andythenorth> "fog of transportation empire construction" ?
13:22:56  <Alberth> TomyLobo: just call it LOS (line of sight)
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13:23:02  <NGC3982> all pax and food trains go with negative profit upon running trough it
13:23:02  <NGC3982> :D
13:23:20  <TomyLobo> lol
13:23:28  <Alberth> you'll get runaway trains too :)
13:23:45  <TomyLobo> and bank trains get robbed
13:24:36  <NGC3982> yes!
13:24:59  <andythenorth> bbl
13:25:00  <NGC3982> i had this in mind when i hypothesized a soviet openttd map
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13:25:27  <NGC3982> radioactive areas where you must bring medical supplies, and trains that run trough with pax and food get ruined
13:26:09  <NGC3982> and, the areas spread if medical supplies (or iodine)
13:26:47  <planetmaker> NGC3982: make appropriate newgrfs and game scripts... (though I'm not sure it's appropriate for the peaceful game OpenTTD is)
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13:29:20  <NGC3982> planetmaker: it is just a fun thought, of course. a soviet map with some serious parameters and grf would though be a real treat.
13:29:31  <NGC3982> there is a lot of special industries and trains from the area, that said.
13:29:59  <planetmaker> you should talk to George. Or possibly, if you speak Russian, join the Russian OpenTTD site
13:30:05  <NGC3982> (forgetting the crazy radioactive stuff/soylent people/siberian work camps)
13:30:07  <NGC3982> hehe
13:30:09  <planetmaker> they might help you along
13:30:14  <NGC3982> ill see what the internet has to say about it
13:30:16  <NGC3982> :)
13:30:18  <planetmaker> and have newgrfs unknown to the outsiders
13:30:40  <NGC3982> when googling, i noted that the russian community seems very ..big?
13:32:03  <planetmaker> I'm not sure...  but most likely not small :-)
13:44:14  <szaman> i would be fun to make a scenario of II World War when nazi army is in leningrad and stalingrad, and your task is to supply army from germany, but polish underground constantly blows tracks up :P
13:44:19  <szaman> i/it
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14:23:46  <TomyLobo> yeah, there arent enough ww2-themed games out there, let's make another
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15:01:54  *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ
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15:13:26  <LordAro> afternoon ladies
15:18:32  <LordAro> @logs
15:18:33  <DorpsGek> LordAro:
15:18:50  <peter1138> Hello girl
15:19:27  <LordAro> :P
15:19:32  * LordAro looks at logs
15:19:58  <LordAro> "19:18:55 < frosch123> LordAro: you are on windows, aren't you?" <-- nope, i'm afraid
15:20:21  <LordAro> well, actually i am at the moment, but not my computer
15:20:33  <LordAro> and no OTTD, so i can't test
15:20:41  <NGC3982> when accidently clicking "send trains to depot" in the train status window, how do i un-make them visit the depot?
15:20:55  <NGC3982> it halts everything for fifteen minutes
15:20:56  <NGC3982> :(
15:20:59  <LordAro> "19:20:31 < Rubidium> LordAro: what's the point of that feature?" <-- dunno, it was on the todo list
15:21:44  <LordAro> "19:20:31 < Rubidium> ...the ones you would like to have the text files of you can't get the text files from" <-- true, but i've done all i can at my end, the rest is up to you :P
15:23:16  <LordAro> sorry about the disconnect, not my fault :L
15:25:31  <planetmaker> NGC3982: load autosave ;-)
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15:47:01  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24386 /trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt: -Fix: remove broken plurals from slovak
15:49:52  <NGC3982> planetmaker: harr. ;)
15:52:14  * peter1138 grumbles at netstumbler not working with his wifi card
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16:07:04  * LordAro grumbles about the routers inability to go through a couple of walls..
16:08:25  <Eddi|zuHause> TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!
16:09:51  <NGC3982> :(
16:10:15  <Rubidium> buy a heavier and more sturdy router and give it more momentum when attempting to make it go through walls
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16:19:30  <NGC3982> if i set station_lenght to 64, build a 64 tile station and then set it back to 16 - what happends to the 64 tile station? nothing?
16:20:05  <planetmaker> it will happily remain
16:21:31  <frosch123> if it is non-regular, it might loose some of its acceptance area
16:22:00  *** Rhamphoryncus [] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus]
16:22:43  <NGC3982> \o/
16:22:48  <NGC3982> non-regular?
16:23:50  <Eddi|zuHause> non-rectangular
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16:36:39  <LordAro> Rubidium/Eddi|zuHause: :D i realised this, and thought about rewording it, but clearly i forgot :)
16:57:02  <dihedral> zoi
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17:05:05  * Alberth zaves hi
17:05:32  <planetmaker> zallo
17:06:19  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
17:06:42  <Alberth> zoi andy
17:07:03  <andythenorth> bloody swiss :)
17:07:07  <planetmaker> zelcome back :-)
17:07:27  <andythenorth> zimbledon
17:14:06  <CornishPasty> zhat's going on?
17:15:34  <LordAro> zederer won
17:15:51  <frosch123> it's annoying when you cannot remember why you made some code so complicated
17:15:53  <FLHerne> zhy ze 'z's? :P
17:15:57  <LordAro> for the zevenths time
17:16:30  <LordAro> Zihedral messed up a while back
17:16:38  <LordAro> zis is fun :)
17:18:08  <andythenorth> zennis
17:18:41  <cmircea> Speaking of station_lenght, is the warning still applicable? At what does the game noticeably start to slow down because of it?
17:19:51  * andythenorth zas been zondering
17:19:57  <frosch123> it just increases the cpu time to deliver goods from houses to stations quadratically
17:22:37  <andythenorth> instead of things that make playing with trains better, what else could we do with the game?
17:23:11  <andythenorth> we have stable game, with networking, well-defined content APIs, content distribution service, GS etc
17:23:32  <andythenorth> now what could we do to bend and break it for new interesting game play? :D
17:23:49  <cmircea> frosch123, that's not that bad.
17:23:50  <andythenorth> because 'make stuff a bit more realistic' is hardly interesting :P
17:24:16  <cmircea> Is there any way to reduce property maintenance for airports? In my games it's completely impossible to make ANY money.
17:24:31  <cmircea> Five city airports are 100m a year to maintain, planes make 10-20m.
17:25:14  * Alberth read 'm' as meter, and wondered about the long airport :)
17:25:49  <cmircea> hah
17:25:51  <michi_cc> cmircea: Where's the problem? Five aircraft per airport and your good ;)
17:25:52  <Alberth> planes fully loaded?
17:26:00  <cmircea> Yeah.
17:26:26  <cmircea> michi_cc, they spent most of the time circling.
17:26:59  <michi_cc> But you can change these cost, just like all other costs, with a base cost NewGRF.
17:27:15  <cmircea> I used pb_build, I doubt that affects maintenance.
17:27:25  <cmircea> michi_cc, also 10-20m was for 10 planes, not each.
17:27:55  * andythenorth ponders making tetris in game
17:28:12  <andythenorth> GS generates trains as 'pieces'
17:28:18  <andythenorth> player has to route them
17:28:35  <andythenorth> actually more like the handheld version of Bomber Man where you have to catch stuff
17:28:55  <michi_cc> AFAIK pb_build is quite old already and still uses GRFv7. If that is so, airport maintenance is modified concurrently with airport construction cost.
17:29:07  <andythenorth> or something like lemmings
17:29:19  <andythenorth> GS starts a train, player has n pieces of track
17:29:27  <andythenorth> and has to route to another depot before the train crashes
17:29:33  <andythenorth> player can't stop the train
17:29:57  <andythenorth> and we need to disable train reversing and have crash instead at end of line
17:31:06  <frosch123> andythenorth: let the gs build a maze of tracks and let it randomly spawn trains
17:31:20  <frosch123> it's the job of the player to avoid crashes with only start/stop
17:31:41  <frosch123> or maybe track modifications
17:31:52  <Alberth> andythenorth: that game is called pipemania
17:32:08  <andythenorth> I coded a train version of Pipemania for the release of Railroad Tycoon 3
17:32:10  <andythenorth> in Flash
17:32:14  <andythenorth> it was a promo
17:32:34  <andythenorth> I made a mistake - you could loop the train and sit racking up points
17:32:52  * Alberth has also seen a wooden train game much like you describe
17:32:57  <andythenorth> or we could do a "Wages of Fear" mod
17:33:02  <andythenorth> trucks transport nitro-glycerin
17:33:11  <andythenorth> you have to build safe but fast routes, or they explode
17:34:21  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24387 /trunk/src/lang/ (lithuanian.txt vietnamese.txt):
17:34:21  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:34:21  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 92 changes by Stabilitronas
17:34:21  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 28 changes by nglekhoi
17:36:17  <cmircea> michi_cc, that's really bad. That might be it.
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17:37:22  * andythenorth is looking for silly entertaining things that can be patched in a week with GS, newgrf, maybe some patches
17:37:29  <frosch123> andythenorth: can't you just add kieselgur to the trucks?
17:37:51  <andythenorth> silliness only needs to provide a few evenings worth of play to be worth doing
17:38:14  * andythenorth googles kieselgur
17:38:23  <andythenorth> frosch123: only if you mine it somewhere :P
17:39:18  * andythenorth doesn't want to invent new projects that take 3 or 4 years, like FIRS :)
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17:40:18  <andythenorth> frosch123: kieselgur pit
17:40:57  <Night_Terrors> Hi, I'm having troubles installing 1.2.1 on Ubuntu 12.04.
17:41:42  <frosch123> andythenorth: you can recolour the firs sandpit to yet another colour :p
17:41:49  <andythenorth> yup
17:47:34  * andythenorth ponders pacman
17:49:24  <Alberth> Night_Terrors: in what way?
17:50:06  *** TWerkhoven [] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into]
17:53:23  <Night_Terrors> If I install using the Software Center, it displays as 1.1.4 and I know of no ways to upgrade.
17:54:08  <Night_Terrors> Of course I could just be making a newbie mistake since I'm new to Ubuntu.
17:54:32  <Alberth> that could be right, 3rd party repos are slow in updating
17:54:52  <Alberth> better uninstall and download the generic linux binary from the site
17:55:39  <Night_Terrors> Alright.
17:58:25  <Night_Terrors> What is the library named as?
17:58:43  <Alberth> ?
17:59:09  <Alberth>
17:59:37  <Night_Terrors> Oh nevermind I found it. I might need help going through the installation process of the library. Point me to a guide or something if you need to.
18:01:29  <Alberth> the readme file schould be sufficient, else there are plenty of knowledgeable people here :)
18:01:53  <Alberth> and some of them are even awake :p
18:02:22  <Alberth> Zuu: version 3:
18:05:01  <Night_Terrors> Heh, yeah. I tried asking at like 0200 this morning and no one was here.
18:10:47  <Night_Terrors> It installed just fine. Thanks for the help.
18:11:08  *** Night_Terrors [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
18:15:16  *** roadt [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:15:38  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 28555+35286+36801
18:15:38  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 100642
18:15:57  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 28555+35286+36801+1756642 - 2000000
18:15:57  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -142716
18:16:22  <cmircea> Weird issue - TTRS + FIRS = all town buildings look like banks. This doesn't happen if I add FIRS after generating a game. Only in 1920.
18:16:37  <Alberth> cmircea: known issue
18:16:41  <andythenorth> I thought FIRS disabled with TTRS
18:16:51  <cmircea> Alberth, any workarounds?
18:17:00  <Alberth> ditch TTRS :)
18:17:02  <Eddi|zuHause> cmircea: afair there was a fixed TTRS around
18:17:14  <cmircea> Alberth, but I like it :<
18:17:23  *** Illegal_Alien [] has joined #openttd
18:17:25  <Eddi|zuHause> cmircea: ever tried checking the TTRS thread?
18:17:26  <cmircea> Looks like 1930 only has a couple buildings looking like banks
18:17:33  <cmircea> Eddi|zuHause, no idea where it is xD
18:18:50  *** TWerkhoven[l] [] has joined #openttd
18:20:29  <cmircea> Eddi|zuHause, found the fixed version, seems good.
18:20:57  <cmircea> Any bridge newgrf that works with NuTracks?
18:21:04  <Eddi|zuHause> all of them
18:22:33  <planetmaker> andythenorth: Foobar and myself specifically hacked TTRS to work with FIRS...
18:22:40  <andythenorth> k
18:23:18  <cmircea> Eddi|zuHause, afaik TBRS doesn't support any new tracks. Graphics I mean.
18:23:35  <Eddi|zuHause> have you actually tried it?
18:24:03  <cmircea> Not yet
18:24:22  <cmircea> In the meantime, is there any way to stop the game from filling the whole map with trees? It's ridiculous really.
18:25:11  <Rubidium> cmircea: yes
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18:25:23  <cmircea> Rubidium, any details?
18:25:35  <planetmaker> adv. settings -> tree growth
18:25:38  <cmircea> oh
18:26:16  <cmircea> planetmaker, in-game placement of trees?
18:27:44  <planetmaker> that one, yes
18:28:28  * andythenorth wonders how to make a "Smokey and the Bandit" challenge in game
18:28:34  <andythenorth> 'deliver beer to the rodeo'
18:28:45  <cmircea> planetmaker, doesn't do much for temperate really.
18:28:46  <andythenorth> "don't get caught by the cops"
18:29:02  * Alberth points to the just posted patch
18:29:14  <cmircea> planetmaker, using the improved algorithm when generating.
18:29:58  <Alberth> don't get caught is quite tricky though
18:30:09  <Alberth> no idea how to realize that
18:30:28  <andythenorth> let the GS build roadworks - anywhere
18:30:32  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r24388 /trunk/src/ (error.h error_gui.cpp lang/english.txt openttd.cpp): -Fix [FS#5233]: Do not consider not finding a particular base set critical; just load a different one and display an in-game error later on.
18:30:58  <andythenorth> you have to deliver within a time limit
18:31:08  <andythenorth> no need to actually have a 'get caught' mechanic
18:31:15  <andythenorth> that's way too much code for too little benefit
18:31:38  <andythenorth> you get one truck, and unlimited road pieces
18:31:47  <andythenorth> but you have to build routes around the GS placing roadblocks
18:31:57  <andythenorth> also avoid trains and stuff
18:32:42  <andythenorth> hmm
18:32:50  <andythenorth> it would be useful if GS could blow up vehicles
18:33:17  <andythenorth> we have explosion and everything else needed already, just needs a new trigger
18:34:03  <Eddi|zuHause> DesasterScripts!
18:35:11  <andythenorth> ottd is a little too serious imho
18:35:28  <andythenorth> when I played original ttd, I spent most of my time crashing monorails into buses
18:35:58  <frosch123> i still do that if i forget to disable ais since my last ai debug session
18:36:05  <Eddi|zuHause> when i played TTD i haven't even got to electric for over 5 (real) years
18:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause> well, no
18:36:14  <Eddi|zuHause> TT original
18:36:15  <frosch123> (not that i mind ais, but i dislike them spamming the map with roads)
18:36:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i never actually played "pure" ttd
18:37:17  <andythenorth> kind of wondering if our game is a bit in the shadow of what the train nerds did when they created TTDP
18:38:32  <frosch123> andythenorth: just take a look at yapf cost parameters
18:38:51  <frosch123> then ttdp is in the shadow when it comes to train nerds
18:39:29  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what makes you think the train nerds actually left :p
18:39:36  <andythenorth> do we have any train nerds present here tonight? :)
18:40:04  <frosch123> Vsomethingsomething is here
18:40:43  * andythenorth tried being a train nerd when younger
18:40:49  <andythenorth> really didn't work for me
18:41:34  <cmircea> What's a good 3-way junction for double tracks?
18:41:51  <frosch123> the one that fits the landscape shape
18:42:15  <cmircea> I have plenty of empty spacer.
18:42:29  <frosch123> boring map then :)
18:42:31  <Rubidium> andythenorth: does working with plannings of trains and measurements with trains of rail count as "train nerd"?
18:42:49  <cmircea> frosch123, in this place anyway xD
18:42:57  <Alberth> cmircea: when you build with the landscape, every junction is different
18:42:58  <andythenorth> Rubidium: no
18:43:10  <frosch123> cmircea: maybe terraform some hills to make it more interesting :p
18:43:22  <cmircea> frosch123, I have mountains, but on the other side of the map xD
18:43:23  <andythenorth> do you collect numbers?  Do you try and achieve mileage with specific locomotives or units?
18:44:00  <Rubidium> andythenorth: actually, I can calculate the milage of specific locomotives with certain numbers ;)
18:45:44  <frosch123> maybe rb wants to add an ultra-detailed track-maintenance game mechanics to ottd
18:46:37  <Rubidium> would be pretty realistic
18:46:48  <Rubidium> including asking for stuff to be measured that isn't actually there
18:47:52  <frosch123> does the moon influence track abrasion?
18:48:40  <frosch123> is the track effort of an engine lower when it's full moon?
18:49:08  <andythenorth> the moon affects earth moving apparently
18:49:18  <planetmaker> frosch123: sure
18:49:25  <andythenorth> there are land tides, I thought this was april fools, but apparently true
18:49:44  <planetmaker> tides of the solid Earth are about 50cm in height
18:50:04  <planetmaker> and of course the attractive force of the moon is the same over sea than over land
18:50:12  <andythenorth> this affects people driving large yellow machines apparently
18:50:27  <andythenorth> if you're trying to move dirt around, and it's moving on it's own there can be issues
18:50:32  <andythenorth> no idea what :P
18:50:40  <planetmaker> hu, what?
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18:51:25  <frosch123> planetmaker: yeah, but likely the ratio between te and cargo weight is still the same
18:51:39  <frosch123> so we can disregard that influence in ottd
18:51:45  <planetmaker> frosch123: yes. Except the tiny difference in height ;-)
18:52:05  <planetmaker> which for all practical reasons is not or at best hardly measurable
18:52:16  <frosch123> anyway, iirc noone liked my suggestion to add a va2 variable for the moon phase
18:52:49  <Rubidium> but do we know the precise moment of the moon phase in the future?
18:53:25  <Rubidium> after all, we don't even know how many seconds it will be until 00:00:00 UTC on 01-01-2020
18:53:27  <frosch123> depends on the precision :)
18:53:53  <frosch123> Rubidium: we know the number of seconds in unix time
18:57:35  <Alberth> we do?  not someone sneakingin an extra second somewhen?
18:57:46  <Alberth> s/gin/g in/
18:58:34  <frosch123> well, some unix seconds are longer than others
19:01:09  <Alberth> and /me was thinking only microsoft seconds varied in length! :p
19:02:03  <frosch123> ms only changed the ordering of time
19:02:32  <frosch123> "50 seconds" left is followed by "30 minutes left" is followed by "20 seconds left" or so
19:03:51  <Alberth> ROFL!
19:03:54  <planetmaker> Rubidium: we do know the exact moments... astronomer's don't use UTC. But rather JD or, if needed, UT
19:04:53  <Rubidium> planetmaker: but trains and airlines use the common time, which would be UTC. As such OpenTTD would use that (or one of its derived time zones)
19:05:07  <planetmaker> :-)
19:05:09  <Rubidium> interestingly... the definition of the second has changed twice since 1967
19:05:49  <Alberth> is 1967 significant?
19:05:50  <Rubidium> 1967 is when they stopped a second being 1/86400th of a mean solar day
19:05:52  <frosch123> it changed? i thought the leap-seconds mess is only to not change it?
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19:06:29  <Rubidium> in 1967 it became X periods of caesium 133
19:06:44  <Alberth> frosch123: no, it's about having equal length of every second
19:07:05  <Rubidium> in 1997 they limited it to caesium at rest
19:07:30  <Rubidium> and then in 1999 they defined an ambient temperature as well
19:07:49  * andythenorth ponders using GS to do something like a Berlin Siege scenario
19:08:02  <andythenorth> 'no building road / rail within 100 tiles of this town'
19:08:09  <andythenorth> 'deliver x cargo per day by air'
19:08:24  * andythenorth knows war is out of scope, but still, could be interesting
19:08:42  <Alberth> but airports are hopeless for large amounts of cargo
19:08:59  <frosch123> andythenorth: just buy a lot of land around it
19:09:14  <andythenorth> Alberth: that's a challenge right?
19:09:22  <frosch123> and put stuff on it that cannot be bridged
19:09:31  * Alberth would consider it impossible
19:09:32  <frosch123> and make it so low that it cannot be tunneled
19:10:24  <Alberth> frosch123: make a mountain to max height and one to min heigh :)
19:13:32  <andythenorth> can GS prevent route building?
19:13:47  <andythenorth> or is GS too low-frequency?
19:15:23  <andythenorth> I could just try writing one and see for myself :P
19:15:41  <andythenorth> but I'm in a mood to be one of those people who just talks talks instead of codes codes
19:16:12  <Alberth> ok, can you explain how to crash nml?
19:16:23  <andythenorth> yes
19:16:31  <andythenorth> reference a string that doesn't exist
19:16:42  <andythenorth> possibly you need to reference it as a substr
19:17:02  <andythenorth> would sample code be easier?
19:17:11  *** peter1138 [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:17:16  <Alberth> what is a substr?  a function?
19:17:49  * Alberth always likes copy/paste code to reproduce faults
19:18:04  <Alberth> but you're in a talk mood :)
19:18:29  <andythenorth> Alberth: got a check out of FISH?
19:19:21  <Alberth> not at the moment
19:19:28  <andythenorth> if you use r749, it's deliberately broken for you to test with
19:20:07  <andythenorth> [brb]
19:20:16  <Alberth> thanks
19:20:48  <andythenorth> you need to use the '' script to build
19:21:09  <andythenorth> if the build succeeds, the shell script will then fail for you (hard coded to my filesystem)
19:21:16  <andythenorth> but the build will fail ;)
19:23:39  <Alberth> good, you don't want it to work by accident ;)
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19:27:17  <Alberth> confirmed, it boomed at nml
19:28:28  <Alberth> will have a look later this week
19:28:31  <Alberth> good night al
19:28:32  <andythenorth> Alberth: it's missing the string '2_diesel_cycloidal' or such in this case
19:28:46  <andythenorth> change it to '2_diesel' in the cfg, and it will build
19:28:47  <andythenorth> and bye
19:28:51  <Alberth> andythenorth: nml should tell me :)
19:29:01  <andythenorth> only if you add a print ;)
19:29:18  <andythenorth> it helps to know what the error *should* be I find :)
19:29:25  <andythenorth> kind of like a perverted unit test :P
19:29:47  <Alberth> I made a note, thanks, and good bye
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19:40:35  <__ln__>
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19:58:44  <Hirundo> frosch123: Can you tell if r22926 (extended act1 fix) will be backported to 1.2?
19:59:50  <planetmaker> fix... usually yes
20:01:36  <andythenorth>
20:02:28  <planetmaker> Hirundo: do you see any reason to not backport it?
20:02:45  *** Jupix [] has joined #openttd
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20:02:55  <frosch123> in the specs i said 1.3 now
20:02:58  *** Nat_aS [] has joined #openttd
20:03:08  <planetmaker> oh
20:03:10  <planetmaker> hm
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20:03:14  <frosch123> but only to not make versions checks too complicated
20:03:58  <frosch123> but there is no reason to not backport
20:05:53  <Hirundo> question is, if nml should use the feature (after 1.2.2 is released)
20:06:07  <planetmaker> hm, ho
20:06:53  <planetmaker> that is a different question...
20:07:02  <Hirundo> yes indeed
20:07:13  <planetmaker> As much as it hurts me, but I think it should not before NML 0.4
20:08:07  <planetmaker> That said... would it hurt to support an NML 0.3 and 0.4 branch in parallel?
20:08:36  <planetmaker> where 0.4 requirements is 1.3.0-alpha support (thus changes) and 0.3 is OpenTTD 1.2 branch support
20:09:27  <Hirundo> For ext act1 only, it's TMWFTLB imo
20:10:02  <Hirundo> I don't know if there are other features, that need 1.3 (apart from some new variables etc)
20:10:57  <planetmaker> A few new ones (like the railtype signals). But they don't break the NewGRF compatibility as much as ext. A1
20:13:14  <planetmaker> New variables are easily dealt with within a NewGRF. Action1 format is not... so if we offer no means to make NewGRFs for OpenTTD 1.2.0 when implementing ext. A1 we might defer it.
20:13:29  <planetmaker> I don't like the choices :-)
20:14:04  <planetmaker> what happens when OpenTTD 1.2.0 finds a NewGRF with an ext. A1 as of now?
20:14:24  <Hirundo> feces meets fan
20:15:42  <Hirundo> you basically can't load a extA1 grf in 1.2.0
20:16:04  <planetmaker> that's what I thought. Hmpf
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20:18:10  <Hirundo> <- set target version to 0.4
20:19:02  <cyph3r> Someone just connected to a server and asked "Hi, I've never played this before, where can I download some HD graphics? Also, where can I start building?"
20:19:08  <cyph3r> People these days...
20:19:44  <planetmaker> well. what did you reply? :-)
20:20:22  <cyph3r> I told him to download Sim City.
20:32:10  <andythenorth> these monster truck-style flash games are too addictive :P
20:32:37  <NGC3982> cyph3r: harr.
20:42:05  <andythenorth> hmm
20:42:08  <andythenorth> if making a truck game
20:42:17  <andythenorth> top down view
20:42:21  <andythenorth> don't have just one speed
20:42:29  <andythenorth> don't make the truck explode if I touch the edge of the road
20:42:37  <andythenorth> don't have steering that won't return to center at all
20:42:41  * andythenorth -> bed :P
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20:47:41  <NGC3982> :D
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20:58:01  <Terkhen> good night
21:00:01  <planetmaker> good night here, too
21:05:50  <dihedral> cyph3r, LOL
21:11:04  <frosch123> night
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21:15:04  * NGC3982 realized ctrl+click stop trains.
21:30:14  <Wolf01> 'night
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