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00:51:40 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.94.221] has joined #openttd 00:56:43 <Pinkbeast> Eddi: honestly, II, Call to Power, III, Alpha Centauri, even Freeciv... 01:15:49 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.45] has joined #openttd 01:15:49 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.73.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:37:07 *** Afdal [~chatzilla@host-174-45-176-7.chy-wy.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 16.0a1/20120706075126]] 01:46:38 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-97-92.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 02:03:13 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 02:05:45 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [] 02:05:49 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 02:23:17 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-ff11c100-110.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:26:03 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-ff11c100-110.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 02:33:06 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.73.45] has joined #openttd 02:38:54 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:41:02 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ecd3:39ea:d223:fb12] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:59:58 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.70.84] has joined #openttd 03:04:11 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.73.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:24:49 *** Kylie [Kylie@CPE18593346e177-CM18593346e174.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:19:55 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.22.30.89.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:39:02 *** SpBot [spbot@skrblz.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd 04:44:30 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66F2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:44:44 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67055.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:11:59 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:17:13 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.79.71] has joined #openttd 05:22:07 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.70.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:25:52 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.74.28] has joined #openttd 05:30:07 <Rubidium> waterfoul: what version are you actually trying to compile? Doesn't look like anything recent-ish to me 05:30:41 <Rubidium> more like rather ancient 05:30:47 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.79.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:55:29 *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 06:24:14 <Terkhen> good morning 06:24:30 <NGC3982> please, dont make me start playing civ again 06:24:35 <NGC3982> i have just aquired a life. 06:24:36 <NGC3982> :( 06:34:27 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.94.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:36:16 <dihedral> good morning 06:43:44 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 06:46:11 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 06:50:32 <Terkhen> good morning dihedral 06:50:37 <dihedral> :-) 06:50:47 *** ludde [~b@c80-217-210-102.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 06:51:03 <dihedral> a ludde? 06:51:12 <dihedral> hej hej 06:51:49 <ludde> hej 06:51:53 <Terkhen> NGC3982: I won't tell you about the many civilization IV mods, then 06:52:08 <Terkhen> hi ludde 06:53:20 <NGC3982> Terkhen: :) 06:53:28 * NGC3982 played civ2 as a kid 06:53:55 <Terkhen> I started with 1, having no idea 06:54:01 <Terkhen> some freeciv 06:54:09 <Terkhen> and then 4 07:28:56 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.94.221] has joined #openttd 07:39:30 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 07:43:52 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-069-078.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:07:45 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.42.12] has joined #openttd 08:14:27 *** levelbylevel [~ideas@host81-149-38-109.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #openttd 08:14:34 *** mkv25 [~Markavian@host81-149-38-109.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #openttd 08:31:56 *** peter1138 [~petern@petern.bnsnet.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:31:59 *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ 08:33:11 <peter1138> Hmm, anyone use TinyCa generated SSL certificates? 08:34:47 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd 08:34:50 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:58:11 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 09:04:56 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:23:01 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:27:53 <dihedral> peter1138, i only have startssl.com certificates 09:28:12 <dihedral> they are free :-) 09:28:44 <peter1138> Yeah, just I used this CA for years before that sort of stuff existed. 09:28:59 <peter1138> Internal CA for internal stuff, kinda thing. 09:29:29 <peter1138> Only issue is that for some reason Windows often won't let me assign a TinyCA generated certificate to RDP 09:30:51 <peter1138> (And I need to use the internal CA for identity certificates too) 09:32:33 <blathijs> peter1138: Perhaps the certificates have the wrong role or usage type (or whatever it's called...) 09:37:04 <peter1138> Hmm, nsCertType is "SSL Server" 09:37:14 <peter1138> keyUsage / extendedKeyUsage are not set. 09:39:19 *** sla_ro|vista [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 09:41:16 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:43:08 <peter1138> Right, I'll try changing that and having a go... 09:53:19 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.42.12] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.191.171] has joined #openttd 10:10:53 <peter1138> blathijs, great, that did the job. Thanks for the hint. 10:11:00 <blathijs> :-) 10:12:12 <peter1138> Now if only the Linux RDP client would support TLS :-( 10:12:49 <peter1138> Can't be impossible, I have one on my phone that manages it. 10:14:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6B76D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:17:19 <peter1138> Okay, possible xfreerdp, but Squeeze's version is too old... :S 10:17:28 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.42.12] has joined #openttd 10:17:46 <peter1138> Yup, the Wheezy version is good. 10:18:35 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 10:21:04 <peter1138> And X11 doesn't listen on tcp anymore. Hmm. 10:22:11 *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:25:33 *** peter1138 [~petern@petern.bnsnet.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:35:11 *** sla_ro|vista [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:42:43 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-97-92.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:07:11 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 11:17:46 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-106-21.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:17:49 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 11:23:53 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-178-51.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:52:21 <NGC3982> having the new improved zoom in mind, is there any plans on increasing zoom levels for the map window aswell? 11:54:07 <FLHerne> What would the point be? It shows the things it's designed to show fine already 12:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: it was decided a while ago to not include map zoom (in) 12:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (there was a patch for that, but only the zoom out part was included) 12:02:13 <Alberth> euhm, I rewrote the entire patch :) 12:02:49 <Eddi|zuHause> quite possible :) 12:04:23 <Alberth> and as FLHerne already said, I did not see any point in adding zoom-in 12:05:08 <Alberth> in fact, today, I'd favour merging main display and minimap window 12:05:34 <Alberth> with the major problem being what to do with the bottom part of the minimap that explains the symbols 12:06:18 *** sla_ro|vista [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 12:06:44 * Alberth ponders not adding a minimap to FreeRCT 12:07:45 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:07:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: a "map toolbar" similar to the transparency toolbar, that allows showing some overlay data? 12:08:41 <Alberth> perhaps 12:08:42 <Eddi|zuHause> some hybrid of the 64x zoom out patch and the catchment/town area overlay patch (which i forgot the name of) 12:08:46 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: i see. thank you. 12:09:17 <NGC3982> FLHerne: nothing particulary practical. i usually use the map to keep my eye on potential clogs and wait-makers. 12:09:20 <NGC3982> :) 12:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: use extra viewports (V key)? 12:10:39 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:58e1:b5d6:4c21:8510] has joined #openttd 12:10:42 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:11:07 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: town area overlay? how would that come into play? 12:11:16 <Alberth> hi glx 12:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it had a separate window where you could select what to show in the overlays 12:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: also cargodist has a window to select overlays 12:11:55 <Alberth> ah, that would seem useful :) 12:17:46 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that is a neat option. 12:22:51 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:29:24 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 12:31:57 <Hirundo> Alberth: I'm currently looking into your NML patch for andy's crash in FISH r749 12:32:43 <Hirundo> But if I do 'make', I get lots of nfo (including warnings, my renum might be ancient) but no NML anywhere 12:32:53 <Hirundo> Do I need to change some config setting? 12:33:05 <Alberth> make on fish? 12:33:35 <Alberth> run ./makefish.sh 12:33:49 <Hirundo> ah, thanks 12:35:20 <Alberth> I am not sure what exactly the right point is in checking existence 12:52:19 <Hirundo> get_translation is also used when outputting strings (in action4 etc), best not touch that 12:52:22 *** peter1138 [~petern@petern.bnsnet.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:52:25 *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ 13:01:09 <Hirundo> Alberth: I applied your fix a little higher in the call stack, thanks for the patch 13:01:48 <Alberth> ok, thanks for checking & fixing :) 13:06:16 <Belugas> hello 13:06:22 <Alberth> hello 13:17:20 * Belugas was "rediscovering" the Rolling Stones, yesterday evening. Was playing Gimme Shelter and Paint In Black on the garden, after sunset. 13:17:53 <Belugas> and a neighbour came in, with his guitar, and we both kept on playing those :D 13:18:04 <Belugas> that was... a thrill 13:18:56 <Alberth> something to repeat one evening :) 13:22:15 <Belugas> yeah, i guess. would be lovely if i could do it with Truebrain, though 13:22:37 <Belugas> or, even better, with peter1138, but on his keyboard! 13:23:03 <Belugas> mh.. that would start to look like woodstock... 13:25:42 <peter1138> Unlikely, my keyboard is playing silly buggers. 13:26:04 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-66-115-249-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 13:26:19 <Hirundo> Eddi|zuHause: I'm not sure if I should consider http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3642 a bug or a feature request 13:26:27 <peter1138> If I press fairly hard it'll send the proper note-on then a note-off and a quiet note-on 13:26:52 <peter1138> I guess there's a continuity issue somewhere. 13:27:10 <Belugas> ooops 13:27:12 <peter1138> But I haven't figure out how to take the keybed apart to diagnose it. 13:27:16 <peter1138> *figured 13:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Hirundo: does that matter? 13:28:27 <peter1138> Could even be one of the ribbon cables has a dodgy connection I suppose. 13:28:33 <Hirundo> If it's a feature request, I have a reason not to implement it :-) as it's quite complicated 13:28:55 <dihedral> o/ 13:29:03 <Belugas> looks like you have to test everything then... it does that on all keys? 13:29:10 <peter1138> Not all. 13:29:26 <peter1138> But large chunks :S 13:29:26 <Belugas> mmmh 13:30:00 <peter1138> Btw, anyone want to buy a MIDI keyboard? Immaculate condition, works perfectly? :p 13:30:14 <Hirundo> Basically, you need to parse the string for all languages that have one or more substrings defined, but you only know which languages have substrings defined after you have parsed the string 13:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Hirundo: well let's phrase it this way: it caught me as "unexpected behaviour" 13:31:23 <Hirundo> Would you expect translated bits to appear in an otherwise english string? 13:31:31 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 13:32:21 <Belugas> lol @ peter1138 13:32:29 <Eddi|zuHause> well the use case were "language agnostic" composition strings, like "STR_TWO_LINES:{STRING}{}{STRING}" 13:32:56 <Belugas> i have to admit, repairing my guit seems a bit easier ;) 13:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> which i have to duplicate for each language, even though it won't ever change 13:33:10 <Belugas> but granted, there is far less hardware! 13:33:38 <peter1138> Yeah, they're a lot simpler. 13:33:51 <Eddi|zuHause> or the vehicle names, which are composed from a "universal" part and some "translated" parts 13:37:12 <Hirundo> Eddi|zuHause: I can understand the use case, but I can't think of a reasonable implementation (yet) 13:37:56 <Belugas> got to say, though, i feel bad for you. So you're going to try to repair it or get a new one? 13:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Hirundo: i don't know enough about the internals of nml, but my "strategy" would be to go through all parameters of the string, collect which languages have these parameters defined, and then generating the total string for these languages 13:38:55 <Eddi|zuHause> assuming the parameters are defined before starting to parse the string 13:40:24 <Eddi|zuHause> so you go through the string once to determine the languages, and then once for each language 13:40:45 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:40:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and then you remember the languages in the symbol table 13:41:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. each string in the symbol table has a set of languages 13:43:48 * Hirundo spots light bulb 13:51:53 *** Kylie [Kylie@CPE18593346e177-CM18593346e174.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 13:53:26 * Belugas brings candles. 14:04:40 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-ff11c100-110.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:05:06 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:07:28 *** Jupix [~jupix@88.193.17.110] has joined #openttd 14:31:03 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd 14:35:39 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d820486.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:38:30 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:10 *** levelbylevel [~ideas@host81-149-38-109.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:50:21 <NGC3982> for normal industries, production seems to halt after 2300 tonnes/year 14:50:37 <NGC3982> i fail to find documentation about it 14:51:07 <NGC3982> is this correct, or am i missing something? ;) 14:51:34 <Hirundo> Eddi|zuHause: Here you go :-) http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/908d9c5ffc36 14:56:09 <planetmaker> NGC3982: that is approx. correct. 14:56:44 <planetmaker> the industry can produce 256*8 or 256*9 units per month (depending on month length and timing) 14:56:50 <planetmaker> @calc 256*8 14:56:50 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 2048 14:57:08 <NGC3982> planetmaker: i see! 14:57:14 <planetmaker> primary industries produce every... X ticks 14:57:39 <planetmaker> ans it fits either 8 or 9 times into a month 14:59:13 <planetmaker> @calc 72*30 14:59:13 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 2160 14:59:31 <planetmaker> @calc 72*30/8 14:59:31 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 270 14:59:52 <planetmaker> @calc 72*30/9 14:59:52 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 240 15:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause> you have an obiwan and an obitwo 15:16:43 <Alberth> or two obiwans :) 15:16:54 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 15:16:59 <Alberth> but with the same spin direction 15:17:22 <Eddi|zuHause> a doubiwan ;) 15:17:28 <Chrill> Is there something wrong with BaNaNas? I keep trying to upload a Scenario but gets the answer "Unhandled Exception" and this has been ongoing for about two weeks 15:18:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Chrill: more details 15:18:06 <Alberth> which scenario? 15:18:27 <Chrill> uhm.. for 1.2.X, scenario called Archipielago Hermoso, 512x512 temperate with NewGRFs from bananas only 15:18:36 <Chrill> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=36465 15:18:58 <Alberth> TrueBrain: ^^ 15:20:08 <TrueBrain> http://bugs.openttd.org/ 15:20:09 <TrueBrain> Alberth: ^^ 15:20:11 <TrueBrain> :D 15:20:48 <Alberth> np 15:21:07 <Alberth> Chrill: do you want to add a bug to the website or should I? 15:21:19 <Chrill> I'm not sure what the bug really is, to be honest 15:21:24 <Chrill> It could just be my scenario 15:21:31 <Chrill> but I have no alternative scenario to upload for testing 15:21:35 <TrueBrain> at the very basic upload your file there etc 15:21:49 <TrueBrain> like with an OpenTTD crash, basically :) 15:22:02 <Alberth> the bug is that you cannot upload, I think ;) 15:22:06 <Chrill> fair enough :p 15:22:09 <Chrill> I'll file a report 15:22:14 <Alberth> ok, thanks 15:22:48 <TrueBrain> for feature reference: BaNaNaS should never give an error; waiting for it won't make it magically go away, so please always file a bug report when you hit one :) 15:23:13 <Chrill> Absolutely 15:23:24 <Chrill> Category: no such thing as a bananas category, I guess Core is fair? 15:23:25 <TrueBrain> often it are corner cases in the files inside the uploaded file 15:23:31 <TrueBrain> there is a Website project 15:23:39 <TrueBrain> I wish FlySpray would show it more clear, but ... what can I say :P 15:24:14 <Alberth> Chrill: at the top-left, it says "OpenTTD" there are also other projects 15:24:30 <Alberth> TrueBrain: shall I file a bug? :D 15:24:38 <TrueBrain> FlySpray is kinda dead 15:24:40 <TrueBrain> I am unsure it will help 15:24:53 <TrueBrain> I really should deploy Jira to show it to you guys, but ... ugh .. time etc bladiebla 15:24:53 * Alberth nods 15:25:17 <Alberth> I was going to file one in the website project about FS being in need of replacement :D 15:27:24 <Chrill> Done! 15:27:27 <Chrill> Thanks for the help 15:27:43 <TrueBrain> tnx Chrill 15:27:49 <TrueBrain> will look at it hopefully later tonight 15:27:59 <TrueBrain> but honesty, that depends on how drunk I will get 15:28:18 <Chrill> Hopefully there should be some sort of log in BaNaNaS that will show I tried to upload and failed, no? 15:28:40 <TrueBrain> I just upload it in my test env, and it will tell me all kinds of things I don't want to read :P 15:28:49 <Chrill> lol 15:29:08 <TrueBrain> hmm, you only uploaded the .scn, not packed in any file? 15:30:12 <Chrill> correct 15:30:21 <TrueBrain> owh joy, this will be fun to fix then :D 15:30:23 <TrueBrain> hihi 15:30:25 <Chrill> lol 15:30:39 <Chrill> I only have a scenario to upload, it is what I tried to upload in the first place! 15:31:37 <Terkhen> I'm using JIRA at work... I don't like it much but since we are using a version from 2008 I guess that I can't judge it :P 15:31:54 <TrueBrain> Terkhen: Jira 5 is much better 15:31:58 <TrueBrain> you can now link to bugs etc :P 15:32:09 <TrueBrain> I wouldn't dare to let any of you work with Jira pre-5 15:32:12 <TrueBrain> it is short to horrible 15:32:21 <Terkhen> :) 15:32:24 <Alberth> thank you TrueBrain :) 15:33:36 <Hirundo> Alberth: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/991 <- How do I detect if there are still cyclic imports? 15:34:16 <Alberth> build an import graph :) 15:34:37 <Alberth> I can make one if you like 15:34:46 <TrueBrain> Chrill: fun fact: I just uploaded that file just fine ... lolz 15:34:56 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:35:08 <Hirundo> Is building such a graph complicated/ 15:35:09 <Hirundo> ? 15:35:15 *** Julio [c92bc3c4@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:35:22 <Julio> hello 15:35:47 <Alberth> find imports of each file, make a .dot file, strip the non-cyclic stuff, basically 15:35:54 <Alberth> hi Julio 15:36:12 <glx> oh we already use one of JIRA's author product 15:36:12 <Julio> i'm new to openTTD 15:36:27 <TrueBrain> glx: we do, yes 15:37:13 *** levelbylevel [~ideas@host81-149-38-109.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #openttd 15:37:20 <Alberth> Julio: ok :) 15:38:26 <Alberth> Hirundo: alternatively, you can find the imports of each file, put them in some python data structure, and write some code to find the cycle 15:39:07 <Alberth> Hirundo: fyi: .dot files are from GraphViz, a package to draw 2d pictures of graphs 15:39:37 <TrueBrain> Chrill: hihi, UTF-8 issues .. how lovely :D 15:39:43 <peter1138> Gah, wtf 15:40:10 <peter1138> rsyslog set up to alert 15:40:14 <peter1138> via ommail 15:40:18 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: t = open("filename.txt"); t.write(title); t.close(); <- title is an utf-8 string; why would it fail? 15:40:44 <peter1138> send test event that matches rule, alert is raised 15:41:01 <peter1138> real event that matches rule, alert is not raised... 15:41:26 <Alberth> TrueBrain: python 2 should work, as it does not care about what the string contains 15:41:26 <peter1138> python? 15:41:29 <Xaroth> hm 15:41:44 <TrueBrain> Alberth: one would think 15:41:48 <TrueBrain> it fails 15:42:00 <Alberth> TrueBrain: add "w" for writing? 15:42:01 <TrueBrain> so I guess we both assumped the wrong thing :D 15:42:04 <peter1138> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/491921/unicode-utf8-reading-and-writing-to-files-in-python 15:42:04 <TrueBrain> it has it :) 15:42:17 <TrueBrain> Alberth: it is nothing that simple, as non-utf8 works :) 15:42:37 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:42:50 <Alberth> non-utf8 ? 15:42:59 <peter1138> open("filename.txt", "w", "utf-8") ? 15:43:22 <Xaroth> try 15:43:24 <Xaroth> import codecs 15:43:29 <Alberth> peter1138: if the string is already encoded, you don't want to encode it again 15:43:39 <Xaroth> file = codecs.open(file, "w", "utf-8") 15:43:51 <Alberth> unless the title is not utf-8 encoded, but a unicode string instead 15:43:59 <peter1138> yes but python is stupid about utf-8, iirc 15:44:29 <Alberth> TrueBrain: what's the error? 15:44:32 <peter1138> where does title come from? 15:44:55 <peter1138> if it's from the scenario then if it's not utf-8 then it'll fail in openttd too, right? 15:45:08 <TrueBrain> peter1138 wins a cookie for linking the right website 15:45:33 <TrueBrain> I solvd it by adding: title.encoding("utf-8") 15:45:36 <TrueBrain> now the file contains weird chars 15:45:41 <TrueBrain> I guess that is intended? No clue tbh :P 15:45:46 <Alberth> right, so it was unicode :) 15:46:01 <Alberth> or some other encoding :D 15:46:05 <TrueBrain> ^^ 15:46:10 <TrueBrain> I hate Python for its utf-8 shit 15:46:12 <TrueBrain> it is just that: shit 15:46:27 <Xaroth> I'm long glad django takes care of a lot of the crap :p 15:46:41 <TrueBrain> Archipiￜￜlago Hermoso 15:46:42 <TrueBrain> hmm 15:46:44 <Xaroth> saves me from having to get headaches 15:46:49 <TrueBrain> no clue how to validate the UTF string :P 15:47:00 <Alberth> decode? :) 15:47:27 <Alberth> u = title.decode('utf-8') :) 15:47:34 <TrueBrain> copy file to public_html 15:47:35 <TrueBrain> open in browser 15:47:37 <TrueBrain> set to utf-8 15:47:38 <TrueBrain> works :) 15:47:45 <TrueBrain> Alberth: I wanted to test it outside Python :P 15:47:50 <TrueBrain> Chrill: fixed; you should be able to upload now 15:47:52 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-069-078.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 15:48:18 <peter1138> so why doesn't my rsyslog work right? :p 15:49:04 <TrueBrain> funny enough, in Chrill's bug report he had a non-utf8 title :P 15:49:13 <TrueBrain> his failed uploads told me he tried utf-8 titles :D 15:49:22 * TrueBrain hugs BaNaNaS for keeping track of these things :) 15:49:30 <TrueBrain> tnx for the help guys :) 15:49:43 <TrueBrain> peter1138: maybe utf8 issues? :P 15:49:48 <peter1138> heh 15:50:58 <Alberth> thanks for fixing so quickly TrueBrain 15:51:05 <TrueBrain> I have to say, I had the same issue, but I cannot remember what the hell I did to fix it peter1138 :P 15:51:15 <Chrill> I failed :( 15:51:19 <TrueBrain> Alberth: I Wasn't planning to, but my roommates went to get food, so I have 10 whole minutes free! :D 15:51:25 <Chrill> Although I am using UTF-8 15:51:25 <Chrill> funny 15:51:28 <Chrill> ah wel 15:51:28 <Chrill> l 15:51:31 <Chrill> thank you TrueBrain! 15:51:32 <Alberth> :) 15:51:40 <TrueBrain> Chrill: as long as it works now :D 15:51:44 <Chrill> I shall try tomorrow for I am just about to leave :P 15:51:53 <TrueBrain> its funny that you are the first one trying to use utf-8, or at least: reporting it :D 15:52:06 <Chrill> :P 15:52:42 <Chrill> my coding is, in other words, really messed up 15:52:51 <Chrill> I use both UTF-8 and non-UTF-8 all at once 15:52:53 <Chrill> massive coolness 15:53:00 <Terkhen> I used in on tags some time ago too 15:54:16 <TrueBrain> Terkhen: we fixed tags months ago; someone used it before you :P 15:54:19 <Terkhen> but never in names 15:54:37 <peter1138> only thing i can see different is the real entry comes from an IP instead of a hostname 15:54:38 <peter1138> hmm 15:55:20 <Terkhen> I remember them breaking with the andalusia scenario too 15:55:21 <TrueBrain> peter1138: ah, yes; my issue was that when I tested it, it came from localhost, while the live event came from 'reserved.isp-name' 15:55:43 <TrueBrain> in other words: I filtered it wrong :D 15:55:48 <peter1138> heh 15:55:53 <peter1138> i'm not filtering on that though 15:56:17 <TrueBrain> we have one box with remote syslog, it had to handle localhost differently, else it came in an infinite loop \o/ 15:56:19 <peter1138> and both the test and real events come from remote system 15:56:27 <peter1138> yeah :-) 15:56:52 <TrueBrain> remote syslog is fucking epic btw 15:57:01 <peter1138> it's essential 15:57:19 <TrueBrain> 100% sure nobody tempers with data, and centralized place to filter for 'bad' events :) 16:07:17 *** levelbylevel [~ideas@host81-149-38-109.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Quit: levelbylevel] 16:19:19 <Terkhen> gah, subsidies are broken again? 16:24:19 *** peter1138 [~petern@petern.bnsnet.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:43:19 <Alberth> or he services industries too well :) 16:50:03 *** mkv25 [~Markavian@host81-149-38-109.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:17 *** KylieBrooks [Kylie@CPE18593346e177-CM18593346e174.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 16:54:17 *** Kylie [Kylie@CPE18593346e177-CM18593346e174.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.191.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.191.171] has joined #openttd 17:11:45 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has joined #openttd 17:13:41 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 17:16:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:17:32 <andythenorth> what did I miss? 17:18:29 <NGC3982> my naked body. 17:18:35 * NGC3982 runs about with his majesty suit on. 17:18:40 <andythenorth> didn't miss that 17:18:44 <NGC3982> ;_; 17:19:13 <Chrill> didnt want to see that? :P 17:19:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0084c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:19:47 <Alberth> hi frosch 17:19:59 *** KouDy [~KouDy@182.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:21:34 <frosch123> moin 17:25:11 <andythenorth> lo 17:27:57 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:28:38 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 17:28:48 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has left #openttd [[RESET]] 17:28:51 <Wolf01> evenink 17:29:02 <Hirundo> Alberth: fyi - I wrote a script that managed to find exactly 1 cyclic dependency which is now fixed, see also http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/991 17:30:19 <Alberth> evenink Wolf01 17:30:26 <Alberth> Hirundo: nice :) 17:31:51 <Alberth> Hirundo: you're the dev here, so if you consider it sufficient, fine by me :) (I'll ask for a re-open of the task if I find a new one ;) ) 17:32:51 <Alberth> but it's very good that you managed to eliminate all, having them is a sign that the code structure is not good 17:33:09 <Terkhen> hi frosch123 and Wolf01 17:56:15 *** Scorpio-BRZ [Scorpio-BR@177.50.18.112] has joined #openttd 18:07:40 *** Scorpio-BRZ [Scorpio-BR@177.50.18.112] has quit [] 18:09:22 *** Scorpio-BRZ [Scorpio-BR@177.50.18.112] has joined #openttd 18:18:02 *** Supercheese [~chatzilla@50-37-107-68.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 18:23:39 *** Scorpio-BRZ [Scorpio-BR@177.50.18.112] has quit [] 18:24:18 * andythenorth proposes an adventure with Pyramid 18:24:25 <andythenorth> would anybody like to play? 18:25:29 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.42.12] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:31 <Alberth> time estimate? 18:25:35 <andythenorth> http://www.pylonsproject.org/ 18:26:26 <andythenorth> I want to ship an app with BANDIT / FISH that can generate the config file from the browser 18:26:39 <andythenorth> http://www.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/about 18:27:41 <Alberth> how would that work? 18:28:01 <Alberth> it generates a number that you enter in the config? 18:28:37 <andythenorth> similar to http://www.tt-foundry.com/sets/FISH/list_all_vehicles 18:28:43 <andythenorth> which has an edit view you can't access :P 18:28:53 <andythenorth> due to this running on one of our production webservers :P 18:28:57 <andythenorth> but I can :) 18:29:27 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2372/BANDIT_build.png 18:29:34 <Alberth> so I can set the intro date? 18:29:39 <andythenorth> yup 18:29:46 <andythenorth> you could do it in the config file just as easily 18:29:58 <Alberth> and then? 18:29:59 <andythenorth> but this allows me to render it to other things trivially, e.g. table view, documentation etc 18:30:22 <andythenorth> and then http://www.tt-foundry.com/sets/FISH/render_vehicles_to_config_file/ 18:30:34 <andythenorth> (page source is better formatted) 18:30:49 <andythenorth> ^^ that file is curled by my build script to build FISH 18:31:55 <Alberth> k 18:32:05 <andythenorth> it's moderately insane 18:32:07 <andythenorth> but I like it 18:32:24 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.42.12] has joined #openttd 18:32:25 <andythenorth> it's silly because there would be python classes for vehicles in the web app 18:32:27 <Alberth> yeah, it is somewhat overkill-ish 18:32:30 <andythenorth> these are then rendered to a config file 18:32:35 <andythenorth> then rebuilt to python classes :P 18:33:07 <Alberth> make a "generate GRF" button :p 18:33:16 <andythenorth> It's overkill, but I just find a web cms easier to use than a spreadsheet 18:33:42 <andythenorth> the actual valid case is to have websites for my grfs 18:33:48 <andythenorth> running on the coop server probably 18:33:58 <andythenorth> in a way other people could understand and maintain 18:34:01 <andythenorth> if I leave / get hit by a bus 18:34:22 <andythenorth> currently the website is on one of our production boxes, totally unsupported and may die at any moment 18:34:24 * Alberth hopes that won't happen any time soon 18:34:47 <Alberth> (leaving, I mean) 18:34:55 <andythenorth> probly not 18:35:05 <andythenorth> unless I really start sulking about ship smoke 18:35:16 <andythenorth> or I start playing Dwarf Fortress 18:35:18 <andythenorth> or Minecrack 18:35:55 <andythenorth> although the low level of conversation here, and lack of interesting forum threads does make me stay away more :P 18:36:18 <Alberth> drawn to the dark side you are 18:36:37 <andythenorth> minecrack :P 18:37:01 <andythenorth> I actually need to learn pyramid to port a work app to it 18:37:17 <andythenorth> making a newgrf configurator seemed a simple project to get started 18:37:21 <Alberth> oh, it's work gor you :) 18:37:28 <Alberth> *for 18:38:28 <Alberth> ok, I'm completely clueless about web-thingies, but I'll play, right after I got myself some tea :) 18:41:16 * andythenorth should learn about virtual env 18:44:43 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-069-078.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 18:50:58 * andythenorth enters the usual world of python setup rage 18:55:56 <andythenorth> what's really nice about setting up python is that the docs lie 18:56:01 <andythenorth> that helps a lot 18:57:16 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.94.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:58:13 *** sla_ro|vista [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 19:02:21 <andythenorth> screw virtualenv 19:02:23 <andythenorth> it's broken :P 19:03:53 <Alberth> http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid_tutorials/en/latest/humans/setup.html <-- uses virtualenv 19:04:14 <andythenorth> yes 19:04:26 <andythenorth> I can't teach my OS to see virtualenv as a package 19:04:36 *** Julio [c92bc3c4@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 19:04:37 <andythenorth> easy_install installs it, but I can't run it 19:05:05 <andythenorth> I've installed pyramid to my site packages for now 19:06:05 * andythenorth does the SQL lite tutorial 19:06:10 <andythenorth> http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid_tutorials/en/latest/single_file_tasks/single_file_tasks.html 19:07:04 <Supercheese> Hmm, tweaking road vehicle offsets so they look good (that is, stay in their lanes and don't "jerk" around corners) means the sprites lie quite a bit outside the bounding boxes. Is this ok? 19:07:40 <andythenorth> it will probably go wrong 19:07:41 <andythenorth> :P 19:07:50 <andythenorth> if it looks right in game, it's possibly right 19:08:02 <andythenorth> but if you do articulated vehicles, or switch the drive side, it may suck 19:08:14 <andythenorth> hmm 19:08:22 <Supercheese> Hmm, well nothing is articulated, but I haven't tested tunnels, maybe there's clipping there 19:08:26 <Supercheese> brb testing 19:08:34 <andythenorth> row-based storage should be fine for this config stuff 19:08:49 <andythenorth> although....then the build script could connect directly to sql lite, skipping the config file step 19:09:19 <andythenorth> and if I used ZODB, I could just store the classes there :o 19:09:32 <Supercheese> Yeah, there's some clipping, dangit 19:10:40 <andythenorth> http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid_tutorials/en/latest/humans/zodb/index.html 19:10:47 <__ln__> http://www.americanphotomag.com/photo-gallery/2012/07/hungarys-thick-red-line 19:12:13 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-93-90.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:13:09 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:14:20 <Alberth> sql seems scary enough for now :) 19:15:33 <andythenorth> tempted to blitz my python 2.6 and start again 19:15:38 <andythenorth> although I've done that so many times :( 19:15:41 <Supercheese> Guess sticking closer to the bounding boxes is worth it 19:16:19 <andythenorth> yup 19:16:21 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-88-99.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:16:39 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-231-254.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:18:37 <Alberth> it feels very Twisted-ish :) 19:19:36 <Belugas> Twisted Sisters 19:19:42 <Belugas> hoho... memories 19:21:00 <Alberth> Actually from twistedmatrix.com http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_(software) :) 19:21:42 <CornishPasty> Is there a Twisted for Ruby? Since I hate python :/ 19:22:00 <andythenorth> how silly 19:22:13 <andythenorth> hating languages :) 19:22:29 <CornishPasty> Well, I don't hate it per se, I just dislike its syntax 19:22:49 <andythenorth> you should hate it's setup tools instead :P 19:22:57 <andythenorth> 'the state of python packaging' :P 19:23:13 <CornishPasty> Gems <3 19:23:53 <andythenorth> I tried the node.js package manager to install the less compiler 19:23:56 <andythenorth> it...just...works 19:24:03 <CornishPasty> npm? 19:24:07 <andythenorth> probly 19:24:24 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:24:46 <CornishPasty> It's the same with Ruby 19:24:53 <CornishPasty> gem install <package> # done 19:24:56 <andythenorth> follow instructions, get working code 19:24:59 * andythenorth likes that 19:25:00 <Alberth> use a sane OS package manager instead :) 19:25:02 <Eddi|zuHause> syntax is irrelevant 19:25:18 <andythenorth> Alberth: I'd have to switch to a better OS :P 19:25:46 <Alberth> and that's not a worthwhile investment? :p 19:26:03 <andythenorth> I like OS X 19:26:25 <andythenorth> apart from the shocking state of packages 19:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Apple should be a teaching example for stockholm syndrome 19:26:51 <andythenorth> but python packaging is a screaming mess no matter which OS you have 19:27:20 <andythenorth> this is not a new assertion :) 19:27:59 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:28:35 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: the point that Apple understood very well is that most users have simple computing needs 19:28:51 <andythenorth> mine are simple 19:28:55 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-167-118.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:29:30 <Alberth> mine are not :p 19:29:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: the problem for civilization is that people grow with the demands put at them. so if you don't demand anything from people, civilization degrades 19:29:46 <andythenorth> nah 19:29:54 * andythenorth finds the Joel quote of a quote 19:30:33 <andythenorth> or not 19:31:36 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: and being good with computers is good for a civilization? I somewhat doubt that for the general population 19:35:45 *** Wakou [~stephen@host86-129-34-31.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:41:43 * andythenorth votes for sleeping time 19:42:02 <andythenorth> Alberth: I'm going to do more pyramid tutorial tomorrow 19:42:24 <Alberth> ok, good night 19:42:27 <andythenorth> bye 19:42:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 19:45:09 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:55:33 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:05:02 *** Jupix2 [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-ff11c100-110.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:06:29 *** Jupix [~jupix@88.193.17.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:24:57 *** Peter2 [~petergazo@static-dsl-107.87-197-154.telecom.sk] has joined #openttd 20:25:22 <Peter2> !version 20:25:22 *** Peter2 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 20:25:36 *** Peter2 [~petergazo@static-dsl-107.87-197-154.telecom.sk] has joined #openttd 20:31:03 <Alberth> you didn't believe me yesterday? 20:33:00 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has left #openttd [] 20:46:12 <Chris_Booth> !password 20:46:12 *** Chris_Booth was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 20:46:13 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-231-254.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:46:20 <Chris_Booth> oops 20:46:51 <Terkhen> good night 20:46:58 <Wolf01> 'night Terkhen 20:49:36 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-66-115-249-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 20:58:31 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-231-254.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0/20120704090211]] 20:59:14 *** Peter2 [~petergazo@static-dsl-107.87-197-154.telecom.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:14:24 <frosch123> night 21:14:28 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0084c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:50 <NGC3982> im trying to find the shortest possible formula to create a (as good as) random two digit number. 21:16:06 <NGC3982> with certain flamboyance, that is. 21:17:54 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:18:20 <NGC3982> like, the current (two digit) local temperature, divided by the current julian date, then selecting the first last two known decimals. 21:19:29 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 21:19:45 <Wolf01> 'night 21:19:52 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: maybe you have a misunderstanding what "random" means 21:33:00 <Supercheese> Hmm, maybe retrieve http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random and then run a search for the first two numbers? I very much doubt you'd encounter a page that has no numbers at all, especially since there's the "This page was last modified on ___" part at the bottom. 21:33:34 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: random is relative, and for my purpose, the number will be random (and utter unscientific). 21:33:55 <Supercheese> Likely would lead to a preponderance of "19" due to the frequence of the years 1900-1999 21:33:57 <NGC3982> Supercheese: true. 21:34:10 <Supercheese> frequency* 21:34:27 <NGC3982> Supercheese: well, all i need to do is multiply with a known number thats always changing. 21:34:36 <NGC3982> Supercheese: where time is perfect. 21:35:15 <Supercheese> Making use of Wikipedia's random article feature in an algorithm just struck me as neat ;) 21:35:23 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: "random" and "always different" are contradicting 21:35:34 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: what are you trying to achieve? 21:35:46 <NGC3982> Supercheese: yes, indeed. its also easy for me to parse. :P 21:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: the sequence "3,2,5,5,5,5,8" is totally random 21:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but 5 is repeated often 21:36:26 <Eddi|zuHause> artificially trying to have no repetition of the 5 in there makes it LESS random 21:36:57 <NGC3982> yes, that is true. 21:37:12 <NGC3982> but natural repetition doesnt break my experiment. 21:37:32 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: if you want to have random numbers, use the rand() function 21:38:03 <NGC3982> that's a c++ command, right? 21:38:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it's (with minor differences) a command in pretty much any language 21:38:34 <NGC3982> i see 21:38:59 <Eddi|zuHause> occasionally it takes a parameter, i.e "rand(100)" for a number between 0 and 99 21:39:24 <NGC3982> how does it make the number? 21:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that depends on the language, the library, the os, ... 21:40:25 <NGC3982> ah, i see. 21:40:50 <NGC3982> the thing is, there is a reason for me wanting natural (pseudo-unrelated numbers) parameters to my function. 21:41:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the usual differences are between balancing speed and "randomness" [i.e. corellation effects, predictability, ...] 21:41:09 <NGC3982> ok 21:41:25 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody _ever_ considered "length of the formula" a serious issue... 21:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: e.g. on linux the kernel provides two random number generators: /dev/random and /dev/urandom. the first one is "more random" and the second one is "fast" 21:42:35 <NGC3982> ok 21:45:41 <NGC3982> "In this implementation, the generator keeps an estimate of the number of bits of noise in the entropy pool." 21:45:46 <NGC3982> that's perfect! 21:46:13 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d820486.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 21:47:49 <NGC3982> in it's reference frame and my experiment, /dev/random should thus be as random as anything can be 21:48:24 <NGC3982> since it's purely unguessable, even if the guniea pig knows the rules of the number creation. 21:48:51 * NGC3982 makes a note to thank Eddi while receiving the nobel price. 21:49:01 <NGC3982> when* 21:50:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.191.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:52:00 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:53:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.191.171] has joined #openttd 21:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: no computer generated number can ever be "completely random" 22:10:14 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:11:10 <NGC3982> in reference, sure it can. 22:11:18 <NGC3982> and not using it is semantics. 22:11:33 <NGC3982> ill use /dev/random, by the way. thank you and good night. 22:12:39 <waterfoul> anyone willing to help me fix a compile problem? http://fpaste.org/Obua/ 22:15:23 <Eddi|zuHause> waterfoul: you have an awful talent to come always when everybody is asleep 22:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> waterfoul: and you haven't told us what version you try to compile and where and how you got it from 22:17:44 <waterfoul> I am trying to get a patch working and the oroginal code is from trunk 22:18:42 <Eddi|zuHause> right, then your patch is probably very old 22:19:26 <waterfoul> I figured, I was trying to get it to work and have fixed most of the problems 22:19:34 <waterfoul> its the IS2 patch 22:20:27 <Eddi|zuHause> waterfoul: the format for settings was changed fundamentally around r22172. settings.h is now autogenerated from settings.ini, so all changes to that file must be ported to the new format 22:20:49 <waterfoul> ok 22:21:10 <waterfoul> how do I regenerate it? 22:21:31 <Eddi|zuHause> waterfoul: the makefile does that automatically, if you change settings.ini 22:21:51 <waterfoul> /src/table/settings.ini correct? 22:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 22:23:41 <waterfoul> is there docs for how this file works? 22:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> waterfoul: it's really rather straightforward 22:24:27 <waterfoul> looks simple enough but I don't wabnt to go monkeying without knowing how it works... (for example how do I add an include) 22:25:17 <Eddi|zuHause> waterfoul: in the old patch for settings.h you have some entries like STD_VAR(x,y,z,...), and in the beginning of settings.ini you have the #define STD_VAR(X,Y,Z,...), so in the [VAR] section you put X=x Y=y Z=z ... 22:26:59 <waterfoul> oh... that's why I was confused.... I was looking at the patch for settings.cpp DOH! 22:27:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that's gonna be difficult then :p 22:28:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the only thing you really will need to change is the min_version for the settings you introduce 22:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause> you increase SAVEGAME_VERSION in the .cpp file by one, and put that number as the new min_version 22:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise you will get trouble loading savegames made by current trunk 22:31:16 <waterfoul> I don't see SAVEGAME_VERSION in settings.cpp 22:31:28 <waterfoul> *src/settings.cpp 22:31:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's in saveload.cpp 22:33:15 <waterfoul> can I leave off strhelp? 22:33:46 <Eddi|zuHause> if you leave out a setting it should put in the default value 22:33:47 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 22:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause> if in doubt, put STR_EMPTY or so, but it would be better style to actually add the right strings :) 22:34:16 <waterfoul> ok, they used SDT_CONDBOOL but I can't find the name for the last parameter 22:34:21 <waterfoul> what is it? 22:35:22 <Eddi|zuHause> waterfoul: you have an example? 22:35:33 <waterfoul> SDT_CONDBOOL(GameSettings, economy.infrastructure_sharing[0], 143, SL_MAX_VERSION, 0, 0, false, STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SHARING_RAIL, CheckSharingRail) 22:35:41 <waterfoul> sofar I have [SDT_BOOL] 22:35:44 <waterfoul> base = GameSettings 22:35:46 <waterfoul> var = economy.infrastructure_sharing[0] 22:35:48 <waterfoul> from = 176 22:35:50 <waterfoul> def = false 22:35:52 <waterfoul> str = STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SHARING_RAIL 22:35:58 <waterfoul> how do I add the CheckSharingRail 22:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, yes, that is a function that checks the validity of the setting on changing 22:36:50 <Eddi|zuHause> should be "proc" 22:37:58 <waterfoul> oh... I just found a newer patch in the forums 22:38:13 <waterfoul> looks like someone has already done it.... fail 22:38:35 <waterfoul> its for r24114 22:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause> they could have done garbage :) 22:39:04 <Eddi|zuHause> don't blindly trust stuff other people have done :) 22:39:38 <waterfoul> i fugured but there seems to be multiple testers of the new patch so I'll give it a shot, i'll make sure I hackup my work first though 22:42:54 *** ludde [~b@c80-217-210-102.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:44:50 <waterfoul> looks like they did do the settings ini right though 22:50:39 <waterfoul> I can;t remember... how do you enable debvugging symbols? it segfasults and I want to try to fix it 22:51:38 <waterfoul> found it, --enable-debug=3 22:55:12 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 23:03:04 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 23:03:21 *** kkimlabs_ [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 23:06:19 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.24] has joined #openttd 23:11:33 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.74.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:15:36 *** MINM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 23:16:53 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:48 *** kkimlabs_ [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:31:55 *** Supercheese [~chatzilla@50-37-107-68.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 23:40:27 *** waterfoul [~waterfoul@host-246-5-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:18 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@186.212.210.120] has joined #openttd