Log for #openttd on 26th July 2012:
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00:39:43  <Silo> stop_ai <company_slot> what is the company slot?
00:48:50  <Eddi|zuHause> a number between 1 and 14
00:49:14  <Eddi|zuHause> (0 is your own company)
00:51:16  <Eddi|zuHause> you should be able to run "companies" to find out which ones are used. or the AI debug window (in the [?] menu)
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06:55:45  <Alberth> moin
06:55:53  <Supercheese> Salve, excitate
06:57:39  <__ln__> merry @340
06:59:05  <NGC3982> åö�öå.
06:59:09  <NGC3982> how does that look to you?
06:59:19  <__ln__> bad
06:59:31  <Supercheese> "åö�öå."
06:59:34  <Supercheese> :\
06:59:48  <telanus> good @340 to you
07:07:04  <NGC3982> Supercheese: :(
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07:42:41  <dihedral> greetings
07:46:20  <telanus> this is the place to get the lang file for translation?
07:46:33  <telanus> for ogfx-trains
07:47:15  <Alberth> if there is no file for your language, yes, english is the simplest starting point
07:48:12  <telanus> thanx
07:49:05  <Alberth> any other language file can also be used but they may be out of date w.r.t. the master lang file
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08:21:10  <Terkhen> good morning
08:21:45  <Alberth> moin Terkhen
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10:30:21  * NGC3982 wants to play
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10:39:27  <andythenorth> the var61 thing?
10:39:43  <andythenorth> can't that be done by checking consist length and subtracting current vehicle's position?
10:39:47  <andythenorth> to get an offset?
10:40:02  <andythenorth> i.e. advanced varact 2, no special cases to trip up the unwary
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10:40:25  <Eddi|zuHause> not even that complicated
10:40:38  <Eddi|zuHause> query the related object and put in the consist length
10:41:05  <michi_cc> andythenorth: Of course it can, var 40 has the consist length, but apparently that is too special for mb.
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11:00:34  <mb> I just wanted to avoid the introduction of a "special" parameter in m4nfo function veh_getinfo().
11:00:44  <mb>  And BTW, most of those counter arguments were moot ...
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11:03:33  <peter1138> ^^^ o_O
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11:05:27  <peter1138> Do you watch often, mb?
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11:06:18  <NGC3982> in the FIRS primary industries with more then one cargo; shipping cargo #1 doesnt affect cargo #2, right?
11:06:43  <andythenorth> totally unconnected
11:06:48  <NGC3982> ah, i see.
11:06:53  <NGC3982> i understood this correctly, then.
11:06:58  <andythenorth> there is no magic specific to FIRS that isn't explained
11:07:05  <andythenorth> or that we don't at least try to explain
11:07:11  * andythenorth hates magic
11:07:20  <NGC3982> i read something about it, but i didnt really.. understand.
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11:08:32  <andythenorth> stick some feedback in if you can find the bit that you read
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11:09:45  <NGC3982> yes
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11:12:46  <NGC3982> andythenorth: i noted that you are the head chicken in the pound of FIRS
11:12:52  <NGC3982> i really like it. :)
11:20:16  <andythenorth> good :)
11:20:29  <andythenorth> that's what we go to school for
11:31:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what you did in school, but we played Doppelkopf whenever we could...
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11:37:39  <andythenorth> I mostly didn't go to school if I could avoid it
11:37:43  <andythenorth> there was nothing useful there
11:37:53  <TechnoBass> Is there anyone in here?
11:38:12  <andythenorth> yup
11:38:24  <TechnoBass> So wats da topic????
11:38:44  <Eddi|zuHause> "1.2.1 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only"
11:39:22  <TechnoBass> Very Helpful Considering i dont know wat that means
11:40:50  <TechnoBass> Hello
11:41:50  <Alberth> you do know you are in #openttd, right?
11:41:58  <TechnoBass> I hate the boring topic
11:42:04  <TechnoBass> Umm yes
11:42:33  <Zuu> Why care about the topic?
11:42:40  <TechnoBass> # Openttd What is it?
11:42:54  <Alberth> see
11:43:25  <TechnoBass> It is the forum and am Do you have something with me?
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11:43:50  <TechnoBass> Darn stupid translation
11:44:32  <TechnoBass> Since I have been using the translation, I can not speak English I is I do not think that 's work
11:44:52  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a german forum at
11:45:27  <TechnoBass> What about translations cheating?
11:45:58  <TechnoBass> What about inaccurate translations?
11:46:53  <TechnoBass> is so difficult to communicate in a different language, when in fact make sense
11:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause> which translaton?
11:47:04  <Zuu> If you know german, frensh or any other language which an OpenTTD community, you might try there instead of using a translator?
11:47:12  <TechnoBass> is so difficult to communicate in a different language, when in fact I do not make sense
11:47:30  <Zuu> ... which have an ... *
11:47:31  <TechnoBass> I speak Japanese
11:48:12  <Zuu> I would be surprised if there isn't a japanese forum. Although I have never been looking for one as I wouldn't understand a word. :-)
11:48:15  <Eddi|zuHause> there is also a japanese community
11:48:41  <TechnoBass> I avoid speaking Westerners
11:49:01  <TechnoBass> I mean to avoid
11:49:22  <TechnoBass> Dam ARRRRGGGGGHHH translation
11:49:45  <TechnoBass> I mean to avoid
11:50:00  <TechnoBass> ...
11:50:19  <TechnoBass> It is not translated the right word why?
11:51:06  <TechnoBass> Can you tell the link for my Japanese community?
11:51:09  <Zuu> translators that don't use full information about the situation tend to pick the wrong word from time to time.
11:51:25  <Zuu> Even a human translator is not perfect either.
11:51:40  <TechnoBass> (^_^) True Ture
11:51:47  <TechnoBass> *True
11:52:17  <Eddi|zuHause> he's got batman ears! shoot him!
11:52:24  <TechnoBass> Your language, it is translated from the right is me How can I see you talking about?
11:52:55  <TechnoBass> I Mean Can You see The Language That I am being Translated From Right?
11:53:34  <TechnoBass> Ek Like Pie ^ _ ^
11:53:46  <TechnoBass> I liked Pie ^ _ ^
11:53:53  <Zuu> I don't have a link. It is probably easiest found if searching in japanese on google, but I don't know japanese.
11:54:14  <TechnoBass> ok Thank you
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12:33:31  <Varazir> Is there a way to replace a tranin with the same model with out clone the train ?
12:33:43  <Zuu> yes
12:33:50  <NGC3982> im getting reports on a lot of people being unable to download files from the online content.
12:33:51  <Zuu> autorenew
12:34:02  <NGC3982> and something about lots of them being corrupt.
12:34:08  <NGC3982> are all of the online-content from the same source?
12:34:30  <NGC3982> (with "online-content" as the usable function in the game)
12:34:34  <Varazir> Zuu: is it a consol command ?
12:34:59  <Zuu> Varazir: Not as far as I know. It's the name of the feature. You enable it through the advanced settings.
12:35:06  <Varazir> ok
12:35:45  <Zuu> In adv. settings you set the money and age limit before it will kick in. It might also be possible to turn it off completely there.
12:37:12  <Zuu> Some help about the settings can be found here:
12:43:25  <Varazir> I would like to replace them every x year
12:45:21  <Zuu> The feature exist to stop you from having to do tedious manual work, but still not allow you to get fresh (<2 year old) vehicles without having to do any work.
12:46:28  <Zuu> Set the age limit to -12 months, and your vehicles will be replaced one year before it will complain about being old.
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12:52:22  <Varazir> ok I can accept not auto just that I can replace the tranin with the same model and not have to replace them model x and back to the model y again
12:54:09  <Varazir> if it's not going to happen I guess cloning is the next best thing
12:55:42  <Varazir> I'll look at the adv option
12:55:47  <michi_cc> NGC3982: Using nightlies on windows?
12:56:27  <michi_cc> Then it might be unless it is a very recent nightly.
12:59:06  <NGC3982> michi_cc: no, 1.2.1 stable.
12:59:09  <NGC3982> ah
12:59:13  <NGC3982> for me, yes.
12:59:24  <NGC3982> michi_cc: ill have a version check with the people that reported errors.
13:03:39  <Terkhen> Varazir: using advanced orders you can stop vehicles with a given age in a specific depot
13:04:43  <Terkhen> although you still need to clone new ones that should reduce micromanagement a bit
13:06:00  <Varazir> Terkhen: ok
13:06:15  <Varazir> thanks
13:06:53  <Terkhen> yw
13:07:00  <Alberth> alternatively, spend your time expanding the network :)
13:15:39  <Belugas> hello
13:19:45  <andythenorth> hmm
13:20:18  <andythenorth> FISH
13:20:45  <andythenorth> if the config for a vehicle specifies which other vehicle replaces it...
13:20:53  <andythenorth> I can automate all the model life crap
13:21:33  <andythenorth> make the computer do the maths
13:23:56  <Alberth> +1
13:31:40  <Eddi|zuHause> that's exactly what i did in CETS
13:32:25  <Eddi|zuHause> (because of the flexible sets within CETS, i occasionally specify multiple replacements, of which the earliest available is taken)
13:34:19  <andythenorth> ah
13:34:34  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause you did it in nml?  or in python when processing config?
13:34:47  <Eddi|zuHause> both
13:36:03  <Eddi|zuHause> in python i calculate the difference in years, and in nml i use ternary operator for model_life = orig_model_life + vehicle1_available?-5:vehicle2_available?-2:0; or similar
13:36:44  <Eddi|zuHause> where "available" means "is selected by parameter"
13:38:33  <Eddi|zuHause> and where "orig_model_life" is calculated based on real stats for when the vehicle was removed from service
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13:48:49  <andythenorth> ta
13:50:00  <Eddi|zuHause> since you don't have this dynamic approach of selecting or deselecting certain vehicles, you can do all in nml, i suppose
13:50:21  <Eddi|zuHause> except for looking up the introduction year for the replacement vehicle
13:50:45  <andythenorth> I can get that at compile time, python obj. ref
13:50:50  <andythenorth> all is well :)
13:51:20  <Eddi|zuHause> the formula would be "model_life = replacement.introduction - this.introduction + this.vehicle_life;"
13:51:43  <Eddi|zuHause> early retire stays the same
13:55:13  <andythenorth> +1
13:55:36  <andythenorth> isn't it nicer writing nml with python objects in scope? :)
13:55:40  <andythenorth> for the vehicles...
13:56:59  <Alberth> merge nml and python into one language?
13:57:13  <andythenorth> what would you suggest?
13:57:16  <andythenorth> xml?
13:57:32  <andythenorth> Alberth: more seriously...
13:57:38  <andythenorth> hide the actual need to write nml?
13:57:49  <andythenorth> just create props on python objs?
13:58:04  <Alberth> something like that
13:58:25  <Alberth> or even create NML ast directly from python, skipping the parsing
13:58:51  <Alberth> origin tracking will be a bitch probably :(
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14:32:25  <planetmaker> moin
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14:56:55  <peter1138> well, this is bullshit
14:58:28  <Belugas> yes it is indeed
15:02:10  <LordAro> depends what scope you are in
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15:10:10  <planetmaker> 15:58 NGC3982: [14:46:37] im getting reports on a lot of people being unable to download files from the online content.  <-- that would need to be much more specific, please
15:10:20  <planetmaker> reports like "stuff doesn't work" cannot be fixed
15:14:15  <telanus> cool. ogfx-trains translated into afrikaans
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15:15:04  <planetmaker> :-)
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15:16:35  <Terkhen> telanus: translations for ogfx rv are welcome too :)
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15:16:42  <peter1138> This is _still_ bullshit.
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15:21:28  <peter1138> So I thought, hey, I could use this package and that package in the new version... so upgraded.
15:21:41  <peter1138> Two words: GNOME 3.
15:22:00  <peter1138> Utter useless heap of shite. Totally different from GNOME 2.
15:22:48  <telanus> Terkhen: I'll do it tomorrow
15:23:24  <Alberth> peter1138: yep, I switched to KDE
15:23:39  <Terkhen> telanus: awesome, thanks :)
15:23:45  <telanus> :D
15:23:54  * Terkhen switched to xfce
15:24:48  <peter1138> I can't believe they've made it so useless. So useless that changing fonts is an advanced setting that you need a special tool for...
15:27:00  * Mazur also uses XFCE.
15:27:15  <Alberth> my biggest problem was the desktops moving when you close some application
15:27:15  <Mazur> Because of Gnome 3.
15:27:35  * telanus uses KDE
15:27:46  <Mazur> My problem was not having my panels on top and botrtom anymore.
15:27:58  * telanus also uses Windows
15:28:20  <Mazur> And wit KDE it was having a kbuildsycoca stuck in a loop eating up one CPU.
15:28:22  <Alberth> does that have two panels?
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15:31:17  <peter1138> metacity --replace&&
15:31:22  <peter1138> gnome-panel&
15:31:25  <peter1138> -&
15:31:44  <peter1138> Not quite Gnome 2 but so...
15:32:16  <peter1138> Gnome 3 is clearly designed for a use-case of not using a computer.
15:34:51  <frosch123> i heard that kde4 is getting usable again
15:35:06  <frosch123> though i did not hear it yet from someone trustworthy
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15:37:26  <peter1138> Right, I might trash this install and go back to Squeeze...
15:37:55  <Matulla> Hi all can i get a Trainstation split  in length so 2 trains are able to unload  one behind the other
15:37:56  <frosch123> haha, luckily i installed it only in a vm, so i have still squeeze
15:38:32  <frosch123> Matulla: no, you can only build two stations, and add enough signalling between them
15:38:43  <Matulla> or does parallel unload/load only work in paralles stations
15:41:58  <peter1138> Not a huge issue, this was an old lenny install and had a load of cruft in /usr/local. Installing Squeeze doesn't actually take long at all.
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16:37:10  <NGC3982> any tip on neat big bus/truck grf's?
16:44:11  <Alberth> HEQS ?
16:59:10  <Terkhen> HEQS, new eGRVTS and OpenGFX RV... I don't know other updated options
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17:29:48  <peter1138> Okay, XFCE is more pleasant than GNOME 3...
17:29:55  <peter1138> ... and I hated XFCE...
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17:32:38  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24436 /trunk/src/lang/korean.txt:
17:32:38  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:32:38  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: korean - 7 changes by telk5093
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17:48:24  <LordAro> peter1138: ^^
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17:49:18  <Wolf01> helloink
17:53:14  <andythenorth> the sky is falling! :o
17:53:17  <andythenorth> oop
17:53:22  <andythenorth> wrong channel
17:53:35  <__ln__> it's falling and you wouldn't have told us?!
17:54:03  <Alberth> he just did, didn't he?
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17:54:53  <andythenorth> ^ worried about the sky
17:55:01  <andythenorth> probably building an underground shelter
17:56:13  * andythenorth concludes that MB got the ship type balance very correct in New Ships
17:56:26  <andythenorth> I have been trying to avoid aping that set, it exists already
17:56:44  <andythenorth> but for gameplay purposes, the ship types are correct
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18:15:30  <andythenorth> hmm
18:15:33  <andythenorth> broken down vehicles
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18:15:41  <andythenorth> vehicles-in-vehicles surely?
18:15:42  <Sleepie> moin
18:20:48  <andythenorth> "But if you want roads itself producing cargos, I must be in the imaginary boundary of hell and heaven."
18:20:51  <andythenorth> frosch123: ^
18:21:00  <andythenorth> "everything is cargo" :D
18:21:04  <NGC3982>
18:21:07  <NGC3982> jesus..
18:21:27  <andythenorth> should I be putting tinfoil on electrical things?
18:22:39  <telanus> this would be a nightmare to implement , or so I think:
18:22:41  <telanus>
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18:24:06  <andythenorth> it's just a cargo tile (ship) that can move
18:24:11  <andythenorth> loading other cargo (trains)
18:24:18  <andythenorth> containing cargo
18:24:42  <andythenorth> which it can do because the ship itself contains a type of cargo called (station)
18:24:45  <andythenorth> simples
18:24:51  <telanus> nice
18:25:02  <andythenorth> telanus: sadly I am trolling
18:25:13  <andythenorth> frosch123 made a funny joke recently, and I have been unable to let it drop
18:25:21  <andythenorth> despite it was only funny the first time
18:26:23  <frosch123> the problem is that there are only 32 rail types
18:26:30  <frosch123> err, cargos
18:26:51  <andythenorth> pool
18:26:54  <frosch123> so the sum of all vehicle types, railtypes, industries and houses cannot go above 32
18:27:23  <andythenorth> ach, but we need to extend that anyway
18:27:28  <andythenorth> 65536 enough?
18:27:29  <frosch123> though if you use "autorail" as cargo you can at least build tracks in all directions instead of using 4 slots for a single railtype
18:38:51  <andythenorth>
18:39:02  <andythenorth> no rear watertight doors?
18:39:08  <andythenorth> following swell might not be pleasant
18:39:30  <andythenorth> they probably know more about naval architecture than me though :P
18:39:57  <frosch123> looks like the water can easily flow out of the back
18:40:04  <frosch123> so, doesn't that make it unsinkable?
18:40:23  <andythenorth> the upper deck might be an addition
18:41:23  <blathijs> Aren't we looking at the front of the ship, here?
18:41:26  <andythenorth> pre-upgrade
18:41:31  <blathijs> (Also, it looks like half a ship to me...)
18:41:46  <andythenorth> post upgrade
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18:54:37  * Belugas enjoys DeathMole - Harpies, from Absent Gods & Creatures Foul
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19:42:13  <andythenorth> mm
19:42:15  <andythenorth> boat names
19:42:23  <frosch123> picard
19:42:47  <Rubidium> enterprise
19:43:04  <frosch123> too fast for a boat
19:43:05  <Rubidium> titanic ;)
19:43:32  <Rubidium> <- I doubt it given those specs ;)
19:44:37  <andythenorth> hmm
19:48:55  <andythenorth> another floating cargo
19:49:05  <NGC3982> oh
19:49:09  <NGC3982> great picture.
19:49:13  <andythenorth> could make stations vehicles :P
19:49:29  <andythenorth> could make vehicles vehicles
19:49:44  <NGC3982> train ferry?
19:49:47  <NGC3982> please, please.
19:49:51  <NGC3982> make it, and make my day.
19:51:08  <andythenorth> special rail type
19:51:20  <andythenorth> hmm
19:51:22  * andythenorth ponders
19:51:32  <andythenorth> if the *train* sprites also showed ferry
19:51:38  <andythenorth> when on a certain railtype
19:51:44  <andythenorth> and cb36 for speed
19:51:49  <andythenorth> yeah, it can be done
19:52:04  <andythenorth> just need a  special bridge, a special railtype, and some madness with sprites
19:52:34  <NGC3982> to make a ferry for trains?
19:53:11  * NGC3982 got a bit excited.
19:54:18  <frosch123> <- andythenorth: you should add those to heqs
19:54:49  <Supercheese> Wouldn't there be licensing issues?
19:55:05  <Supercheese> or do Star Wars fan works have immunity?
19:56:18  <Rubidium> only 70 years (+ the number of years that will be added to that in the future) after the death of the author the licensing issues will not be there
19:57:07  <Supercheese> There are so many good isometric sprites of Star Wars stuff out there, I wonder if there's any way to make a grf from them and be able to distribute it without license migraines
19:57:09  <Rubidium> given the way the US congress keeps extending those times for audio, I doubt it will ever be free of copyright and thus license free
19:57:38  <Supercheese> claiming fair use doesn't seem to solve anything
19:59:22  <Supercheese> Here's a trip: Google 3D Warehouse terms say: "You give other end users of the Services a perpetual, sublicensable, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute Existing Geolocated Models, Existing Non-Geolocated Models, New Models and related content and derivative works...
19:59:23  <Supercheese> ...thereof which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services."
19:59:30  <Supercheese> and they have stuff like:
19:59:59  <Rubidium> well... people upload stuff they're not supposed to upload there
20:00:14  <Rubidium> and onto youtube, and onto OpenTTD's content service
20:00:16  <Supercheese> So, derivative sprites of that model would be licensed... how?
20:02:14  <andythenorth> illegally
20:02:34  <andythenorth> the design is probably distinctive enough to be protected in various ways
20:02:47  <andythenorth> all your base belong to lucas
20:04:08  <Supercheese> Alas
20:05:04  <frosch123> night
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20:20:52  <andythenorth> bye
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21:15:21  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:30:13  <Terkhen> good night
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