Log for #openttd on 27th July 2012:
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06:42:58  <__ln__> good @330
06:56:28  <TrueBrain> @op
06:56:31  *** mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
06:57:03  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*] by TrueBrain
06:57:21  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~ttdpatch@*] by TrueBrain
06:57:23  <TrueBrain> @deop
06:57:26  *** mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
06:57:52  <Eddi|zuHause> whowhat?
06:59:45  * NGC3982 have started playing a lot of FISH
06:59:58  <planetmaker> moin
07:00:28  <NGC3982> morning
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07:33:35  <Supercheese> Valete, amici, I'm off to bed
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07:47:23  <Alberth> hi
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08:22:58  <telanus> Hi Alberth
08:23:08  <NGC3982>
08:28:37  <Alberth> talking about insane plans :)
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09:14:37  <dihedral> :-D
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10:53:48  * telanus prods terkhen with a super sheep
10:54:31  <telanus> My Afrikaans translation of OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles is on the Forum
10:57:19  * peter1138 notes that hg works better on a mercurial repository than git...
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10:58:46  <xavexgoem> Any AI people around here? I'm thinking AITile.IsBuildable() is broken
10:59:28  <xavexgoem> Or maybe I'M broken and can't tell what's going wrong
11:00:02  <Alberth> given the quite fundamental feature, I suspect the latter until proven otherwise :)
11:02:03  <Eddi|zuHause> xavexgoem: maybe you start with what you're trying to achieve, what you expected how it works, and how it actually works?
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11:08:33  <Alberth> xavexgoem: how do you think it is broken?
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11:22:33  <xavexgoem> Sure. I'm trying to build a one-way road station a few random tiles away from an industry. I can't have the station be directly adjacent to an industry and facing it at the same time, since you can't build a road leading out. So I call IsBuildable(tile), where tile is the tile leading out
11:23:10  <xavexgoem> It's supposed to try and find another location if IsBuildable fails, but it always succeeds
11:24:08  <xavexgoem> So the station is built and it's useless
11:25:31  <xavexgoem> if(!AITile.IsBuildable(stationTileFront)) continue;
11:32:22  <Alberth> what's in front of it then?   IsBuildable  does look like a function that often returns true
11:32:50  <xavexgoem> Typically the actual footpront of the industry, like a sawmill or a coal mine
11:33:03  <xavexgoem> Something you certainly can't build over
11:34:46  <Alberth> did you check the tile coordinates of the check?  did you test IsBuildable on an industry tile (to confirm the result)
11:35:42  <xavexgoem> Yes, I always run AISign.BuildSign(stationTileFront,"blahblahblah") after the station is built
11:36:08  <xavexgoem> Between that if statement up there and the sign building, stationTileFront never changes
11:42:17  <xavexgoem> Although now that I do an explicit check... weird
11:46:28  <Alberth> I am looking for a way to check whether a tile belongs to an industry, as that would confirm its broken-ness, but no luck so far
11:48:13  <xavexgoem> I'm actually building the sign right before I make the check. The odd thing is if I run isBuildable on a known tile (e.g., IsBuildable(AIMap.GetTileIndex(x,y))), it returns false
11:48:20  <xavexgoem> So I'm probably doing something vexing
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11:50:56  <xavexgoem> ahh... seems to work for if(AITile.IsBuildable(stationTileFront) == false) continue;
11:51:01  <xavexgoem> instead of !AITile
11:51:53  <xavexgoem> Haha, no
11:52:41  <Alberth> yeah that would be weird :)
11:55:43  <Alberth> <-- the source says it will not return true for an industry (default: return false), only 4 other cases are considered in more detail
12:00:31  <xavexgoem> Goddamnit, I see what I've done
12:01:06  <xavexgoem> Wait, no I don't. Wow.
12:01:08  <Alberth> GetIndustryID(TileIndex tile)   gives you an industry ID if the tile is at an industry tile
12:06:24  <xavexgoem> I've pasted it in, if you want to take a look
12:07:57  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the random for?
12:08:29  <xavexgoem> I want the station to be near, but I don't really care where
12:08:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean for "front"
12:08:52  <xavexgoem> Face a random direction
12:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause> one would assume "front" is always 1 tile away
12:09:16  <xavexgoem> With that it always will be
12:09:24  <Eddi|zuHause> but that may get you the same tile, or diagonal tiles
12:09:27  <xavexgoem> Sometimes at a diagonal, which'll fail the station biuld, but that's OK
12:09:36  <xavexgoem> I know
12:09:51  <Eddi|zuHause> you might want to do "+ random(2)?+1:-1"
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12:20:56  <xavexgoem> That works better. Station is still wonky.
12:24:56  <xavexgoem> Updated the pastebin. The weirdness increases: I check IsBuildable outside the loop, and it DOES give the correct results, even after just building a bad station
12:40:52  <xavexgoem> and in closing, it completely goes away if you use an infinite loop broken out of if the station build succeeds. No idea why.
12:40:57  <planetmaker> xavexgoem, building a new station on top of one of your existing stations is feasible and allowed
12:41:02  <planetmaker> Thus the tile remains "buildable"
12:41:24  <xavexgoem> That wasn't the issue, though. It was saying an actual building was buildable
12:41:54  <xavexgoem> Now it doesn't, but that's by making a seemingly unrelated change
12:44:01  <xavexgoem> So instead of "do { ... } while (!AIRoad.BuildRoad(...))", it's while(true) { ... if(AIRoad.BuildRoad(...) } Ooooooooohhh
12:44:56  <xavexgoem> *facepalm*
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13:06:20  <Belugas> hello
13:06:40  <Alberth> hello sir B
13:06:53  <Belugas> sir A :)
13:08:20  <peter1138> sir A and sir B
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13:10:51  <Alberth>    this road bridge looks a bit bumpy :p
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13:13:14  <Eddi|zuHause> something like that happened in SC2000 sometimes
13:15:17  <Belugas> cool :)
13:15:21  <Belugas> UNREAL!!
13:30:53  <planetmaker> haha, nice, Alberth ! :-)
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14:43:08  <Aztec> hi everyone. :) I've been looking through NewGRFs to enhance OpenTTD and stumbeld across the 2cc TrainSet. It's looking good but is anyone actually using it? Those train prices are so~ high or am I just to bad at openttd to afford them?
14:46:14  <Terkhen> hello :)
14:46:19  * Terkhen is back home for the holidays
14:48:18  <telanus> Aztec they are a bit on the expensive side
14:48:42  <Terkhen> Aztec: IIRC you can adjusts the cost via parameter
14:49:30  <Aztec> Hi Terkhen *hands a beverage of your liking*
14:50:14  <Aztec> Thanks for the hint, i should've checked sooner and also thanks telanus.
14:50:47  <Terkhen> no problem :)
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15:09:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: traditionally, "the holidays" means christmas/newyear
15:10:29  <Terkhen> vacations then?
15:10:38  <Eddi|zuHause> better :)
15:10:39  <Terkhen> as long as I don't have to work, you can call them as you like
15:10:43  <Terkhen> :D
15:12:39  <Alberth> hi Terkhen
15:13:18  <Terkhen> hi Alberth :)
15:19:10  * Belugas is leaving for vacations tonigh as well. 2 well deserved weeks
15:19:25  <Terkhen> indeed, I hope you enjoy them :)
15:19:30  <Belugas> even if work@home4home is scheduled :S
15:19:43  <Alberth> have a very good time, Belugas
15:19:52  <Belugas> i might.  At least, i'll see my son and wife 24/7*2 ;)
15:19:59  <Belugas> i'll try to, Alberth :)
15:20:32  <Belugas> and hopefully, sir peter1138, we'll have time to jam in my brand new studio :D
15:21:13  <Alberth> a studio is no good if you cannot use it :)
15:23:04  <Terkhen> :)
15:23:35  <Aztec> Sounds nice. I'm still undecied where i want to spend my next vacation. :/ There are so many possibilities but so I'd have to learn so many new languages to make the best of it.
15:26:03  <Belugas> indeed, Alberth :)  That's why it's my main priority for the vacations.  I'm tired to hear complains about the strange sounds my guit makes while practicing.
15:27:18  <Belugas> Aztec, yuo know, with english, you can get pretty much everywhere, these days.  or so i am encline to believe
15:27:36  <Belugas> sadly, french is not as widly used :(
15:27:38  <Eddi|zuHause> even to montreal? :)
15:28:43  <Belugas> on the contrary :D
15:29:18  <Aztec> Sure I'd get around but there's so much you miss and (IMO) it's worth not only going to the big tourism places but get a view at the more rural areas and I'd guess englisch isn't that common there, at least in some countries like egypt or japan.
15:31:15  <Belugas> well... my wife speaks spanish (my kid starts to), i'm fluant in english, we all know french.  That covers most of the american continents
15:31:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd advise against syria at the moment, though :)
15:31:23  <Belugas> and there's plenty to see there :)
15:31:27  <Belugas> quite!
15:35:13  <Aztec> I'll probably stay near my hometown and just visit some castles or spend some time at the sea. That's way more than far enough from syria. ;D
15:36:54  <Aztec> Oh and there usually is enought to see in your own country but sometimes i'd really like to see something different. ;) Ok in the US it's rather easy because you got a lot of different enviroments.
15:41:48  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't really have medieval castles in the US, though ;)
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16:27:25  <Aztec> There has to be a downside! ;P I'm living in europe so there are a lot of castles. :)
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17:06:49  <Wolf01> hello
17:08:08  <Alberth> hello Wolf01
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17:32:30  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24437 /trunk/src/lang/korean.txt:
17:32:30  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:32:30  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: korean - 14 changes by telk5093
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17:58:01  <NGC3982> oh my
17:58:13  <NGC3982> underworld is making the music for the olympic show tonight
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18:21:10  <frosch123> why has mediawiki no option to revert multiple revisions in one step
18:22:57  <Wolf01> because it's trycky to revert the revert in case of necessity :D
18:23:02  <Wolf01> *tricky
18:23:20  <frosch123> revert does not delete it from the history
18:24:00  <frosch123> rollback only works for a single user, not 20 :(
18:25:35  <frosch123> ah, i can click on edit for an old revision, and then save it
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18:42:09  <Wolf01> bbl, maybe
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18:53:59  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i really don't get xkcd...
18:54:13  <Supercheese> agreed
18:54:39  <frosch123> i got the hint
18:54:55  <frosch123> for the rest you likely need to know the story
18:55:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a little harder if you've only seen one of (apparently) two referenced movies
18:57:25  <frosch123> where are there movie references?
18:57:59  <frosch123> it's a quote from wiki, illustrated with a scene from lotr
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19:03:23  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r24438 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#5256-ish]: Make (non-refittable) vehicles with invalid default cargo unavailable.
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19:17:51  <Eddi|zuHause> oh... today is "sysadmin appreciation day"
19:18:50  * Rubidium doesn't appreciate his work's sysadmin
19:23:15  <TrueBrain> and I never got any flowers from any of you
19:23:17  <TrueBrain> pfffffff
19:27:50  <NGC3982> with FIRS, if i have a single source of engineering supplies and a lot of primary industries that needs it
19:28:24  <NGC3982> - do i put it all in one primary industry, or do i make myself better off distributing the low amount of engineering supplies to all of the above?
19:28:58  <Alberth> the latter
19:29:23  <Alberth> at least that's what everybody does, I have never reached that point in my games :)
19:29:28  <NGC3982> oh, and note that all the primary industries i talk about create stuff that later creates engineering supplies
19:29:37  <NGC3982> i see.
19:29:52  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: every industry needs 1 crate of engineering supplies every month
19:30:11  <NGC3982> that's enough?
19:30:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a real challenge :)
19:30:29  <NGC3982> well.. yeah.
19:30:43  <NGC3982> ive been doing this a bit wrong
19:30:58  <NGC3982> full load on a huge train to a single industry
19:31:16  <NGC3982> where i should have used smaller trains and more spread amongst the industries, i guess.
19:37:27  <TWerkhoven> distrubution centre
19:37:39  <TWerkhoven> where a train unloads, then uses trucks to distribute to single primaries
19:39:45  <NGC3982> yes, i guess that is the best way
19:39:57  <NGC3982> doesnt the distances kill of the use of trucks?
19:42:35  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r24439 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#5254]: In some cases ships could be covered with land.
19:47:41  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: the trucks would only go short distances. the long distances are made by larger trains with transfer order
19:50:13  <Aztec> Are there other resources besides the ottd wiki and openttdcoop with tutorials/additional information about building?
19:50:22  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
19:51:37  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: i think i catch your drift.
19:51:41  <NGC3982> ill give it a shot.
19:51:48  <NGC3982> that said; FIRS is hard. really hard.
19:52:06  <Alberth> Aztec: the forums, and many other TTD sites
19:52:10  <NGC3982> ..and i like it as much. :)
19:52:33  <Alberth> NGC3982: just don't deliver supplies :)
19:52:45  <Aztec> So I just have to keep clicking and reading. :D
19:53:10  <NGC3982> Alberth: say what? :p
19:54:23  <Alberth> Aztec: don't forget to experiment with the game :p
19:54:57  <NGC3982> dont miss the olympics thingy right now, guys.
19:56:08  <Aztec> Oh I still have long way to go so there are a lot of experimnets i've yet to do. ;D I'd never be able to build a self regulating network - hell my ML is still jamming. But it's interesting to see what other people have build and what's possible.
19:56:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Aztec: there's a savegame forum where people occasionally show what they built
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20:03:27  <Aztec> So i probably should check it out, thanks. I didn't really have a look at the forum, yet.
20:42:27  <Terkhen> good night
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20:55:47  <Aztec> I've seen it several times now, is there any advantage of using One-Way PBS on the ML?
20:57:03  <Belugas> VACATIONS!!!
20:57:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Aztec: there is no difference in behaviour if there is no switch
20:57:08  <Belugas> See you in two weeks!!!!!
20:57:17  <Rubidium> have fun Belugas
20:57:46  <Aztec> Bye Belugas, enjoy!
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21:30:40  <Sleepie> hello
21:38:23  <planetmaker> Aztec: join MP servers. Learn from others
21:38:34  <planetmaker> Belugas: enjoy!
21:39:20  <planetmaker> Aztec: I can recommend the #openttdcoop welcome server in particular, if you're interested in stuff like the srnw. Or join the real thing, the main server of coop
22:00:56  <Sleepie> *facepalm*
22:01:43  <Sleepie> I still get blocked when trying to do edits on the wiki
22:02:10  <Eddi|zuHause> you're a spammer.
22:02:39  <Eddi|zuHause> you can tell that by having a address
22:03:17  <Sleepie> It seems its bad to be a customer of the of the biggest ISPs in germany :(
22:03:24  <Eddi|zuHause> :p
22:03:26  <Sleepie> +one
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22:04:14  <frosch123> well, the spambots had no problem posting today, when they noticed that we forgot to setup a captcha for unregistered edits :s
22:04:17  <Sleepie> Looking at while still being logged in my name pops up on nearly all entries of 2009 and 2006
22:04:55  <Sleepie> frosch123: Yep I had seen it some minutes ago, there were messing around like crazy
22:05:33  <frosch123> yeah, but for some reason the bots only noticed it yesterday
22:05:36  <frosch123> not the days before
22:05:43  <Eddi|zuHause> captchas only work when they're custom made
22:05:59  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: no captcha at all for sure does not work
22:06:21  <Eddi|zuHause> we need the kitten-test!
22:08:18  <Sleepie> at least the captchas seem to prevent them from posting links
22:08:54  <Sleepie> maybe anom edits should be forbidden too
22:09:10  <frosch123> as long as only single bots are able to enter, the rollback is enough
22:09:23  *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
22:09:27  <frosch123> it only gets annoying if 10 bots modify a page before notice
22:10:25  <Sleepie> frosch123: any idea what to do so can contribute again? Like now it seems I have no chance at all
22:10:34  <Sleepie> +I
22:10:45  <frosch123> we have no idea at all
22:11:04  <Sleepie> :(
22:12:48  <frosch123> we could make you a moderator, maybe that prevents you from being blocked :p
22:13:46  <Sleepie> we can try
22:14:37  <Sleepie> or just lift the old blocks
22:15:06  <frosch123> i don't quite believe that the old blocks are really causing it
22:15:46  <Sleepie> well the thing is still strange..
22:16:19  <Sleepie> last time I tried about 3 days ago I could make a few edits
22:16:47  <Sleepie> then it happened again while I still had the same IP
22:18:01  <frosch123> try to login again
22:18:09  <Sleepie> maybe some of the extensions is not compatible with the new mediaiki version
22:18:11  <Sleepie> ok
22:18:40  <frosch123> if you are still banned, maybe you can unban yourself :p
22:20:10  <Sleepie> ok I'm still banned, on which page I have to look for unban?
22:20:37  <frosch123> the special.blocklist one
22:20:52  <Sleepie> ok I'll try
22:23:13  <Sleepie> hmm... I cannot find the "button" to unban there
22:23:39  <Sleepie> and my name isn't on the list either
22:24:16  <Sleepie> but user 'kristy' now seems to get all those blocks I had before
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22:25:35  <frosch123> the should be some "change block" button
22:25:57  <Sleepie> not for me :P
22:26:16  <Sleepie> seems moderators cannot unblock then
22:28:33  <frosch123> TrueBrain: can user rights be changed via the wiki interface? or does that need ldap magic?
22:28:55  <TrueBrain> frosch123: both; depends on what you want?
22:29:12  <frosch123> i tried adding sleepie to wiki-sysop group
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22:29:34  <TrueBrain> both LDAP as mediawiki groups work
22:29:37  <TrueBrain> so either one will do
22:29:42  <TrueBrain> so yeah, that works
22:29:50  <Sleepie> is 'kristy' really blocked? Or is that another one like me - collateral damage
22:29:59  <frosch123> Sleepie: do you have to option to move pages?
22:30:18  <TrueBrain> as far as I can tell, users are still hitting eachother with the autoban
22:30:24  <TrueBrain> and I couldn't find how to disable autoban completely
22:30:36  <Sleepie> yes
22:30:50  <frosch123> did you have that option before?
22:31:10  <Sleepie> hmm I'm not sure but I guess not
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22:31:34  <TrueBrain> frosch123: maybe we should just flush the whole ban list?
22:31:40  <frosch123> can you edit the frontpage or only view the source?
22:31:41  <TrueBrain> most bans are really old
22:32:05  <Sleepie> TrueBrain: I wouldn't remove all bans
22:32:16  <frosch123> TrueBrain: if you have an easy way to do that :)
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22:32:40  <Sleepie> maybe all older than one year and then lets see how it goes
22:32:42  <TrueBrain> hit the button N times?
22:33:18  <Sleepie> ^simple but tedious
22:33:23  <frosch123> there is no single click unban
22:33:24  <TrueBrain> guess I can empty the table, but unsure if that does all we want it to do
22:33:54  <Sleepie> depends if there are any relations to other stuff
22:34:12  <TrueBrain> no shit
22:34:13  <TrueBrain> lol
22:34:38  <TrueBrain> kristy is banned a lot of times, lolz
22:35:00  <Sleepie> same for me 15 minutes ago
22:35:23  <Sleepie> but even I'm now not on the list I couldn't edit anyway
22:35:43  <TrueBrain> its really autoblock keeping itself alive
22:35:51  <TrueBrain> will take 24+h nobody editing I guess for it to solve
22:35:54  <TrueBrain> which is not going to happen :P
22:36:20  <Sleepie> forbid editing on all pages :P
22:36:34  <Sleepie> and make a pointer on the main page
22:36:54  <Sleepie> but I guess the one-click button for it is not invented
22:37:16  <TrueBrain> there
22:37:18  <TrueBrain> empty block list
22:37:20  <TrueBrain> lolz
22:38:00  <Sleepie> ok I'll do another try...
22:38:43  <TrueBrain> frosch123: can you revoke his sysop rights later? Mediawiki tells me he doesn't have them, but he appears to do? I dunno, odd interface :P
22:39:36  <Sleepie> yeah it worked :)
22:40:29  <frosch123> removed the group again, though it is not logged :p
22:40:35  <TrueBrain> frosch123: lolz
22:40:44  <TrueBrain> and FYI: Wiki-NNN, are assigned by LDAP
22:40:47  <TrueBrain> they are copied to ...
22:40:53  <TrueBrain> the non Wiki- ones
22:41:04  <TrueBrain> in LocalSettings it copies the rights administrator has to Wiki-Sysop
22:41:09  <TrueBrain> which comes from LDAP
22:41:28  <frosch123> so, i would have had set him to administrator?
22:42:03  <TrueBrain> both work, but yes
22:42:12  <frosch123> administrator has more rights
22:42:17  <TrueBrain> I _think_ the Wiki- entries are reloaded once in a while
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22:42:36  <TrueBrain> ah, yes, I didn't copy all rights I see
22:43:02  <frosch123> the add group "check users" should only be for bureaoucrats
22:43:03  <TrueBrain> only the checkuser differs, not?
22:43:07  <Sleepie> user right changes are not logged?
22:43:09  <frosch123> or however they are written
22:43:34  <frosch123> these groupnames are so confusing
22:43:42  <TrueBrain> they are
22:43:48  <frosch123> one should think that "administrator" is the most powerful one
22:43:53  <frosch123> but bureaucrats are more
22:43:55  <TrueBrain> from my understand, Bureaucrats is implied by Administrator
22:44:15  <frosch123> oh, right
22:44:17  <TrueBrain> agrees with my statement, and disagrees with yours
22:44:22  <frosch123> i thought they did not have the "edit user rights"
22:44:23  <TrueBrain> but ... I hate the naming
22:44:26  <TrueBrain> it is fucking confusing
22:44:55  <Sleepie> I guess this explains it all
22:45:03  <TrueBrain> btw, I am very tempted to close editing for anonymous
22:45:06  <Sleepie> still a bit confusing though
22:45:06  <frosch123> i have no idea why there is a group that gives you more user right-management rights, but no edit rights
22:45:21  <Sleepie> TrueBrain: +1
22:45:30  <frosch123> TrueBrain: we just enabled the captcha :p
22:45:35  <TrueBrain> I know :P
22:45:39  <TrueBrain> but reading through the Recent Changes
22:45:43  <TrueBrain> it annoys me I see IPs
22:45:44  <TrueBrain> and not names
22:45:49  <TrueBrain> I cannot contact anyone asking why he made a change
22:45:54  <TrueBrain> I don't see the point
22:46:11  <frosch123> i never had to ask anyone
22:46:12  <Sleepie> I'm all for it
22:46:18  <frosch123> either stuff is correct or wrong
22:46:40  <TrueBrain> well, you work with it more than I, so I will leave it then :)
22:46:56  <frosch123> anyway, i don't mind it being disabled
22:47:03  <frosch123> would be consistent with the rest :)
22:49:23  <TrueBrain> I consulted the other devs too, we will see what comes out of it :P
22:49:26  <TrueBrain> for now, time to find my bed
22:49:28  <TrueBrain> night
22:49:50  <Sleepie> night and many thanks frosch123  and TrueBrain
22:52:03  <TrueBrain> and tnx frosch123 for cleaning up the wiki :)
22:53:04  <frosch123> :)
22:54:58  <frosch123> night
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22:58:39  *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@] has quit [Quit: Hugs to all]
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23:14:39  <NGC3982> viewers.
23:14:51  <NGC3982> i would be a bit and a half nervous.
23:27:56  <Sleepie> Olympia?
23:30:17  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:31:27  <NGC3982> mhm
23:34:35  <Sleepie> Well I wasn't one of them :P
23:35:04  <Sleepie> I'm more interested in the winter games
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