Log for #openttd on 29th July 2012:
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00:52:06  <Wolf01> 'night
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04:55:49  <andythenorth> bongiorno
04:56:11  <Supercheese> e ti
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05:06:21  <telanus> hellllo
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05:51:31  <andythenorth> if else blocks like this
05:51:37  <andythenorth> I always find them a bit clunky
05:51:57  <andythenorth> but then I leave them in place because they're so easily read
05:58:25  <Eddi|zuHause> render = lambda self: templates.get(self.custom_template, templates['ship_template.pynml'])(vehicle = self)
06:00:51  <andythenorth> yeah
06:00:54  <andythenorth> I had something like that
06:01:03  <andythenorth> I deleted it as less readable
06:01:11  <andythenorth> but I'm not convinced
06:01:21  * andythenorth tends to get distracted by meta issues when coding :P
06:04:19  <andythenorth>         template = templates[('ship_template.pynml', self.custom_template)[self.custom_template is not None]]
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06:21:53  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn'T look right
06:23:57  <Eddi|zuHause> use "self.custom_template or 'ship_template.pynml'"
06:26:30  <Eddi|zuHause> "a or b" is an abbreviation for "a if a is something non-0 else b"
06:27:33  <Eddi|zuHause> so "template = templates[self.custom_template or 'ship_template.pynml']"
06:27:50  <Eddi|zuHause> with the added side effect that it handles also empty strings and such
06:30:44  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: thanks, amended
06:30:46  <andythenorth> pretty clean
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07:08:40  <andythenorth> hmm
07:08:51  <andythenorth> python's boolean 'and' boggles my brain
07:08:54  <andythenorth> I kind of get it
07:09:02  <andythenorth> had to read it four times :P
07:09:22  <andythenorth>
07:11:51  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. "false" is different from "False"
07:21:36  <andythenorth> version number shenanigans
07:21:49  <andythenorth> FISH current release is 0.9.2
07:22:15  <andythenorth> trunk is now quite different, the set has changed in multiple ways
07:22:27  <andythenorth> so I'm thinking of going to 2.0.0, skipping 1.0.0
07:22:30  <andythenorth> is that silly?
07:22:48  <andythenorth> (not really anything to do with nfo vs. nml, that's just implementation)
07:27:06  <Eddi|zuHause> seriously... what's the significance?
07:27:32  <Eddi|zuHause> might as well go 0.10
07:28:03  <Eddi|zuHause> or "FISH 2" version 0.1
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07:34:49  <andythenorth> last option is best
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07:40:50  <andythenorth> feature request
07:41:05  <andythenorth> the toddler wants to have blue buses and yellow buses and pink buses
07:41:11  <andythenorth> and I can't be bothered to newgrf it :P
07:41:17  <V453000> im just counting versions as +1 to the latest :) no fuss
07:41:29  <andythenorth> (he wants to set colour per vehicle, and be able to change it)
07:41:36  <V453000> nuts has that for trainz :p
07:42:21  <andythenorth> if we had a colour cycle var, we could abuse it for other purposes
07:42:26  <andythenorth> it would find interesting uses
07:42:37  <V453000> :D
07:42:45  <V453000> I just have various sprites for it
07:42:55  <andythenorth> I know that looks like wrong thinking, but I suspect it's a variant of 'worse is better'
07:43:27  <V453000> flickering rainbow vehicles?
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08:16:29  <andythenorth> if I make it FISH 2, does it need a new banananaas entry? :P
08:17:45  <V453000> if there would be a reason to use FISH1 :D
08:17:52  <andythenorth> can't think of any
08:17:52  <V453000> then I would say yes
08:18:14  <V453000> idk, just update fish1 then I think
08:18:25  <andythenorth> seems easiest
08:24:51  <Terkhen> good morning
08:24:54  <andythenorth> hi Terkhen
08:32:03  <andythenorth> Terkhen: want to help test FISH 2?
08:32:17  <andythenorth> the log tugs are missing, think all other ships are there
08:32:26  <andythenorth> I haven't turned off default ships yet either
08:32:34  <andythenorth> or reset the water construction costs
08:33:27  <andythenorth> things like costs might be quite wrong in some places :P
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08:42:01  <Terkhen> sure, I'll test it later :)
08:42:15  <Terkhen> OpenTTD nightly or 1.2.1?
08:42:50  <andythenorth> probly works with stable
08:43:07  <andythenorth> I never use stable, so not sure ;)
08:49:13  <andythenorth> hmm
08:49:34  <andythenorth> are there are any escapes that let me dump a block of nfo into an nml file?
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08:49:51  <Wolf01> hello o/
08:50:17  <andythenorth> hmm
08:50:27  <andythenorth> do nml and nfo use same chars for comments? :P
08:51:01  <andythenorth> shame :P
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09:10:11  <andythenorth> V453000: I do like you sprite style :D
09:10:15  <andythenorth> *your
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09:23:50  <andythenorth> should ships reduce run cost whilst docked?
09:24:14  <Terkhen> andythenorth: ok, I'll take a note to test it :)
09:24:44  <andythenorth> thanks
09:36:51  <petern_> andythenorth, not greatly. that's one of the busiest times for staff
09:37:12  <Yexo> good morning
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09:51:16  <Terkhen> hi Yexo :)
09:51:55  * andythenorth doesn't adjust running costs whilst docked in that case
09:51:59  <andythenorth> hi Yexo
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10:00:27  <NGC3982>
10:00:47  <NGC3982> V453000: it works, but slowly.
10:00:55  <NGC3982> as i thought, it's a maglev thing.
10:01:20  <NGC3982> although, 792 tonnes produced and maximum production reached?
10:05:05  <andythenorth> NGC3982: what FIRS version?
10:07:10  <NGC3982> andythenorth: 0.7.2
10:07:38  <andythenorth> NGC3982: production amounts probably got changed
10:08:06  <NGC3982> ah, i see.
10:08:16  <andythenorth> you should be safe to update to 0.7.5
10:08:27  <NGC3982> isnt that process automagic these days?
10:08:47  * NGC3982 knows how andy loves magic.
10:08:55  <andythenorth> hmm
10:09:05  <andythenorth> actually we broke savegames at 0.7.3
10:09:06  <andythenorth> sorry
10:09:10  <andythenorth> no upgrade for you ;)
10:09:31  <Yexo> NGC3982: updating newgrfs is never done automatically for existing savegames
10:10:37  <NGC3982>
10:10:52  <NGC3982> Yexo: it's not a savegame. i started yesterday.
10:12:56  <Yexo> in that case just open the online content and click update
10:19:26  <NGC3982> will do. :)
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11:06:10  <Terkhen> which IAs use ships?
11:07:05  <frosch123> i would guess for nocab
11:07:16  <frosch123> isn't there a comparison table on the wiki?
11:07:19  <frosch123> which lists such stuff
11:07:31  <Terkhen> oh, ok, thanks :)
11:08:22  <frosch123> nocab, otvi, terron and trans :)
11:11:11  <petern_> Anyone familiar with expect scripts?
11:11:35  <petern_> Can I hide output from the spawned program?
11:13:42  <Terkhen> ok :)
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11:17:41  <andythenorth> anyone want to contribute to FISH?
11:17:52  <andythenorth> need a parameter (bool) that resets various water costs
11:18:12  * andythenorth is deep in converting log tug sprite chains :P
11:19:09  <andythenorth> nfo for it water costs param is here:
11:21:00  <andythenorth> - it
11:21:14  * andythenorth seems to get ever more illiterate :P
11:28:15  <Yexo> rewrite it in nml :p
11:30:13  <andythenorth> that's my request :)
11:30:14  <andythenorth> the nfo works
11:30:32  <andythenorth> Yexo you probably missed that I'm converting FISH to nml :)
11:30:44  <Yexo> yes, I missed that
11:30:52  <Yexo> just got back from a 3 weeks holiday
11:31:37  <andythenorth> nearly finished it
11:31:41  <andythenorth> took about 3 weeks :P
11:31:48  <petern_> Rewrite it in GRFEdit
11:32:06  <petern_> Or was that GRFMaker... I can never remember...
11:32:09  <andythenorth> yeah
11:32:11  <andythenorth> those
11:32:17  <andythenorth> what does an nml spriteset look like?
11:32:29  <petern_> Fred
11:32:32  <andythenorth> this page is somewhat missing a canonical example
11:32:41  <Yexo> "list of realsprites" is a link
11:32:54  <andythenorth> oh that works
11:32:59  <andythenorth> [can't use a template here]
11:33:08  <andythenorth> [otherwise I wouldn't be asking :P ]
11:33:12  <Yexo> has an example
11:35:24  <Terkhen> andythenorth: the new ships and their buy menu sprite look nice :D
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11:38:40  <andythenorth> thanks
11:39:01  <andythenorth> shame that Eddi|zuHause has a patch that makes my work pointless :P
11:39:40  <Eddi|zuHause> why has nobody cleaned it up and committed it yet? :)
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12:26:57  * andythenorth wonders now if nmlc is faster than nmlc->grfcodec
12:30:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt it
12:31:39  <andythenorth> FISH is getting slow to build
12:32:00  <andythenorth> 12s
12:32:05  <andythenorth> boring :P
12:35:09  <andythenorth> ~55s for nml
12:35:15  <andythenorth> second pass is much faster
12:35:28  <andythenorth> ~10s once cached
12:35:30  <Yexo> second pass is the more important one
12:35:37  <Yexo> that's the speed you'll most often see while developing
12:36:54  * andythenorth switches to building with nmlc
12:38:07  <andythenorth> faster = better :)
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12:40:42  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Have you bodged a way to make those log tugs articulate yet? :P
12:40:58  <andythenorth> has someone extended the newgrf spec? :o
12:42:03  <FLHerne> Unlikely :-(
12:42:35  <FLHerne> But if you were considering roads as railtypes, there must be some nasty hack you could make :P
12:43:40  <andythenorth> implement ship routes as railtypes
12:43:44  <andythenorth> simples
12:44:10  <FLHerne> *facepalm*
12:45:53  <andythenorth> I don't see the problem
12:47:57  * NGC3982 poops
12:48:15  <Pinkbeast> There's only 16 railtypes and we want them all for rails
12:48:39  <frosch123> just make a searchable railtype dropdown
12:48:52  <frosch123> there is for sure no more than than selecting the right railtype from a list of 1000
12:49:05  <frosch123> *no more fun than
12:49:16  <Pinkbeast> That's not the issue; the issue is that each extra bit of railtype adds a bit per map tile.
12:49:17  <andythenorth> michi_cc: does autorefit evaluate capacity anyway?
12:49:23  <andythenorth> *in any way
12:49:38  * andythenorth is wondering if it needs turned on or off when capacity is refittable
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12:51:53  <frosch123> Pinkbeast: i think it was a mistake to limit railtypes to 16. for some reason this makes grf developers want to fill all of them with pointless types. if there would be a hillarious limit like 64k, they might have considred to only add useful types
12:52:01  <andythenorth> +1
12:52:01  <frosch123> same for cargso
12:52:04  <andythenorth> -1
12:52:15  <frosch123> every industry set wants to use all 32 slots for some reason
12:52:20  <andythenorth> yarp
12:52:25  <andythenorth> the game is to find 32 useful cargos
12:52:28  <frosch123> if the limit would be 64k, they might have used less :p
12:52:39  <andythenorth> and then string them together with 3 in / 2 out at industries
12:52:55  <andythenorth> without the limit, FIRS would have 50 or so cargos by now I think
12:52:59  <andythenorth> and I would hate it even more
12:53:09  <andythenorth> limits enforce sub-editing :P
12:53:13  <Pinkbeast> frosch: I think one can easily exceed 16; and I'd rather the game had 10 or 12 or 16 bits of railtype and sod the memory footprints. But the developers appear to disagree.
12:55:02  <Pinkbeast> (After all, 16 bits of railtype on a 1024^2 map is, er, 128Kb.)
12:55:14  <frosch123> yeah, that would limit the railtypes only by usabiilty, when you have to scroll the dropdown over 5 screenpages to find the right railtype :p
12:55:36  <Pinkbeast> As you said, though, that's hardly an unconquerable UI issue. :-)
12:55:41  <michi_cc> Pinkbeast: Just what would you need so many railtypes for?
12:56:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i could have filled that rather easily :)
12:56:27  <Pinkbeast> 2 bits of gauge x 2 bits of electrification scheme x 2 bits of speed x 2 bits of axle loading... well, I'm up to 8 without even thinking about it.
12:56:45  * andythenorth has 8 bits of confusion
12:56:47  <Eddi|zuHause> that won't even fit
12:56:54  <andythenorth> ugh
12:56:58  <andythenorth> too many railtypes :P
12:57:01  <Eddi|zuHause> 3 electrification and 3 axle load
12:57:17  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: riddle of the day: how to define operator ^ and * so that 16 bits on 1024^2 map result in 128Kb
12:58:14  <Pinkbeast> Is there a comedy maths error here?
12:58:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: 1024^2 is already 1M, so 2 bytes make that 2MB
12:59:23  <andythenorth> riddle of the day (2): log tug does 11mph loaded, 20mph unloaded.  Should it go faster if the load is 80t versus 400t?
12:59:28  <Pinkbeast> Yeah, my bad, brain fart. I still don't think it's a prohibitive quantity, though.
12:59:41  <frosch123> Pinkbeast: compare 2MB with 512MB for 32bpp extra zoom
12:59:50  * andythenorth thinks loaded speed is a factor of safety, and not losing logs
13:00:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: it's not. the question is how to do it "properly" to guard for all (sane) future demands of "more map bits"
13:00:22  <Pinkbeast> Acceleration? If ships had an acceleration model.
13:00:41  * andythenorth solves it
13:01:25  <andythenorth> the issue was an exploit, where a 400t ship with 50% load factor would go faster than equivalent 240t ship
13:01:28  <andythenorth> solve
13:01:30  <andythenorth> d
13:01:52  <Pinkbeast> Eddi: mm, but "perfect" can be the enemy of "good enough" - and the existing bits of railtype are clearly (IMAO) too few.
13:05:06  <andythenorth> autorefit appears to be ignoring subtype currently
13:05:11  <andythenorth> [same cargo]
13:05:42  <frosch123> it's the same as for autorenew and clone
13:05:49  <frosch123> it tries to find one with the same text
13:05:56  <andythenorth> maybe I just disable autorefit for this ship
13:06:33  <andythenorth> solved
13:09:36  <frosch123> so the log tug does not work for steel logs?
13:10:07  <frosch123> (what is it refittable to at all?)
13:10:21  <andythenorth> wood!
13:10:29  <andythenorth> 80t / 240t / 400t
13:10:44  * andythenorth proposes a slider for capacity :P
13:11:11  <frosch123> sounds like those orders which are always requested
13:11:19  <frosch123> "load up to 50%" or so
13:12:26  <andythenorth> I worked around that :P
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13:28:37  <andythenorth> FISH mostly now converted
13:28:40  <andythenorth> :P
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13:31:35  <andythenorth> does nml support parameters?
13:31:39  * andythenorth is trolling
13:38:57  * FLHerne is rather confused by OTTD's RAM usage priorities
13:39:51  * andythenorth was confused because a14 stuff is cached
13:39:55  <andythenorth> but that's solved :P
13:40:48  <FLHerne> 32bpp+EZ seems to dwarf all the other 'that would be too memory-hungry' suggestions :P
13:42:43  <Pinkbeast> In fairness, if you're on a steam-powered computer, no-one's making you use 32bpp
13:43:10  <Pinkbeast> But if eg railtypes become 16-bit that's affecting everyone.
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13:43:17  <andythenorth> so in nml, how do I connect my a14 option (bool) to a basecost adjustment?
13:43:37  <Yexo> if (option_name) { do_basecost_adjustment; } ?
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13:44:14  <Yexo> documents basecost adjustments, just wrap that in an if-block
13:44:20  <andythenorth> ta
13:44:54  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: basecost = option?0:-2;
13:45:19  <Eddi|zuHause> (or whatever)
13:45:43  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: that also changes the basecost when the option is turned of
13:45:52  <Eddi|zuHause> ah. right
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14:06:12  <petern_> aw man
14:06:14  <petern_> just got a gas leak :S
14:06:54  <petern_> trying to fix a load of wobbly floorboards
14:06:55  <petern_> oh well
14:07:01  <petern_> that'll cost money to fix :p
14:07:22  <andythenorth> nail through pipe?
14:08:25  <petern_> screw
14:08:28  <petern_> and
14:08:31  <andythenorth> oops :o
14:08:34  <petern_> it was the last screw
14:08:42  <andythenorth> standard
14:08:53  <petern_> the rest of the floor is all fixed now
14:08:54  <petern_> except
14:08:59  <petern_> it'll have to come up to fix the pipe
14:09:01  * andythenorth has done that with a water pipe in a kitchen refit
14:09:18  <petern_> water pipe is probably messier
14:09:20  <petern_> unless you don't notice
14:09:26  <petern_> and then the gas pipe is, erm, very bad
14:09:26  <andythenorth> didn't noticed for months
14:09:31  <andythenorth> -d
14:09:31  <petern_> oops
14:09:33  <petern_> bad
14:09:40  <petern_> fortunately i can smell
14:09:44  <andythenorth> how handy
14:09:44  <petern_> and, infact, hear
14:09:58  <andythenorth> 'boom' is never very good
14:10:06  <petern_> no, that would've been pretty bad
14:10:07  * andythenorth wonders if anyone will find the joke in FISH
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14:11:22  <petern_> my missus says
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14:11:28  <petern_> should be turn everything off
14:11:33  <petern_> uh, ... bad idea :)
14:11:43  <petern_> *we
14:12:19  <andythenorth> I'd be thinking of turning the gas off maybe
14:12:24  <andythenorth> probably not the rest :P
14:12:26  <petern_> yes quite
14:12:28  <petern_> i did
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14:12:54  <andythenorth> if you turn the rest off, no interwebs
14:12:55  <petern_> turning things off is what causes sparks...
14:13:23  <petern_> maybe if there's a motor nearby it
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14:14:20  <andythenorth> meh
14:14:27  <andythenorth> how much do I care about breaking people's savegames?
14:14:52  <FLHerne> Lots! :P
14:15:25  <andythenorth> or not at all :P
14:15:42  <Terkhen> there are probably not many people playing FISH nightlies
14:16:01  <FLHerne> Terkhen: I am :P
14:16:56  <Terkhen> hurry up and finish your game then
14:16:57  <Terkhen> :)
14:17:37  <andythenorth> the issue is that in December 2010, I 'removed' some unwanted ships by setting them to 'no climate'
14:17:48  <andythenorth> I can't be bothered to find them and add them to the nml conversion
14:18:20  <petern_> heh
14:18:26  <andythenorth> and I don't want to bump FISH because it's compatible in all other ways afaik
14:19:02  <Terkhen> keep those until the end of times :D
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14:21:48  <andythenorth> leaving this broken will 'just' result in some invalid vehicles
14:21:49  <andythenorth> :P
14:22:36  <petern_> and another thing
14:22:41  <petern_> why are modern door hinges so tiny?
14:23:23  <andythenorth> vindictiveness
14:23:31  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Do many people still have actively-used savegames (which they might want to update FISH in) from 2010?
14:23:37  <andythenorth> dunno
14:23:43  <andythenorth> going to find out by releasing it
14:23:52  <andythenorth> there's a key for every lock :P
14:25:06  <andythenorth> I reckon that's FISH done for now
14:25:20  <andythenorth> now I have to figure out makefiles again :(
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16:16:03  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r24441 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): -Update: Version number to 1.3 in some more files.
16:18:36  <andythenorth> lo
16:19:03  <andythenorth> is petern_ still alive?
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16:27:46  <Rawh> whois him and look at his idle time?
16:31:26  <Sacro> hmm
16:31:27  <Sacro> did that work
16:31:29  <Sacro> yes :d
16:31:38  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r24442 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Split some members of Vehicle into a new class BaseConsist.
16:32:10  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r24443 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Move Vehicle::name to BaseConsist.
16:32:33  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r24444 /trunk/src/ (order_backup.cpp order_backup.h saveload/order_sl.cpp): -Codechange: Base OrderBackup on BaseConsist.
16:32:54  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r24445 /trunk/src/saveload/order_sl.cpp: -Fix: Do not load order backups when loading a server-saved game in single player.
16:34:10  <petern_> andythenorth, yes
16:34:59  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r24446 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Add [FS#5199]: Store more consist properties in order backups.
16:35:48  <andythenorth> oh spiffing
16:36:08  <petern_> Jolly good show ol' chap!
16:36:29  <andythenorth> well, can't stand around gassing all day, what?
16:36:40  <petern_> Quite so.
16:37:22  * andythenorth toddles off to the club
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17:32:12  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24447 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt latvian.txt):
17:32:12  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:32:12  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
17:32:12  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: latvian - 6 changes by Parastais
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17:55:50  <andythenorth> so...who wants to translate FISH 2? :D
17:55:56  <andythenorth> I have Afrikaans already
17:56:03  <andythenorth> Terkhen: ^
17:56:12  <andythenorth> planetmaker: ^
17:56:13  <andythenorth> :)
17:59:15  <Hirundo> andythenorth: Need dutch?
17:59:21  <andythenorth> yarp
17:59:44  <andythenorth> hmm I should add a translation comment
18:02:04  <andythenorth> done
18:02:13  <andythenorth> no point translating generated code ;P
18:02:56  <andythenorth> bah
18:03:04  <andythenorth> I have the nfo makefile for FISH
18:03:24  <andythenorth> (logically, as it was built for nfo, and still is by the makefile)
18:06:01  <petern_> bah, stty -echo doesn't do what i want it to do :S
18:06:20  <andythenorth> it's keeping company with my makefile in that case
18:10:11  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I'll translate it now :)
18:10:20  <andythenorth> :)
18:11:10  <Terkhen> pylng?
18:11:27  <andythenorth> yup
18:11:43  <andythenorth> the .lng files are generated from that
18:12:01  <andythenorth> there's nothing much scary in it though :)
18:16:53  <frosch123> Hirundo: would your start from scratch? or base it on afrikaans? :)
18:19:59  <Hirundo> I'm starting from scratch :-)
18:22:31  <Terkhen> andythenorth: what does "sea going" means? a ship that will go far from the coast?
18:24:19  <andythenorth> capable of travelling on sea
18:24:41  <andythenorth> typically it will have things like: higher freeboard (sides), and locking doors / hatches etc
18:24:50  <Terkhen> ok, let's see how I can translate that :P
18:24:56  <andythenorth> 'sea capable' ?
18:25:06  <frosch123> "Hochseetauglich"
18:25:42  <andythenorth> can't find you a convenient wiki page for reference :P
18:25:52  <frosch123> Terkhen: "de alta mar"
18:26:02  <frosch123> says my dictionary
18:27:28  <Terkhen> found it, "de altura" :P
18:27:43  <Terkhen> I remember hearing it somewhen, but I did not know it meant that
18:28:16  <Terkhen> usually we don't have words for things as specific as this one
18:29:44  <frosch123>  <- a nomen and an adjective
18:30:14  <frosch123> Terkhen: spain should have the history for ship terms, shouldn't it?
18:31:11  <Terkhen> I don't know many, but maybe it is just because I'm not very knowledgeable about nautic stuff
18:34:27  <Hirundo> I used the dutch equivalent of 'sea worthy' for 'sea going'
18:38:35  <andythenorth> Hirundo: Terkhen frosch123 I gave you FISH commit rights
18:38:47  <andythenorth> saves administration for translations ;)
18:39:08  <andythenorth> I *think* the makefile now works for the nml conversion too
18:39:29  <Hirundo> andythenorth: The 'vehicle ferry' is used for transporting vehicles or people?
18:39:37  <andythenorth> both
18:39:41  <andythenorth> refits all cargos
18:39:52  <andythenorth> has vehicles decks and passenger cabins
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19:14:19  <andythenorth> should the buy menu gain an 'extra info' progressive disclosure thingy?
19:14:29  <andythenorth> cargo decay rate, loading speed
19:14:51  <andythenorth> autorefit support
19:15:28  <andythenorth> I can put it in with the text cb, but it gets big and nasty
19:26:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i was thinking about total vehicle length (in tiles)
19:26:27  <Eddi|zuHause> which needs some awkward conversion function
19:27:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i already have railtype and axle scheme in there
19:27:23  <Eddi|zuHause> where axle scheme is purely cosmetic
19:49:23  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r24448 /trunk/src/core/smallvec_type.hpp: -Fix [FS#5255]: Copy constructor and assignment operator cannot be implicit template specialisations. (adf88)
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20:13:23  * Terkhen likes translating andy's NewGRFs
20:13:27  <Terkhen> I learn a lot of words :P
20:13:35  <andythenorth> :)
20:13:59  <andythenorth> I learn them from wikipedia :P
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20:15:32  <frosch123> i thought you are making them up
20:16:11  * Terkhen searches them on wikipedia and clicks on "spanish"
20:17:50  <frosch123> is there a wikipedia based translator bot?
20:18:17  <__ln__> i hope not
20:18:37  <Terkhen> frosch123: no, but for some pages, you can check the same page in a different langue
20:18:39  <Terkhen> language*
20:18:53  <Terkhen> it is useful when you are looking for complicated terms :P
20:19:24  <frosch123> yeah, i am doing the same
20:19:44  <frosch123> but i am wondering whether some online translator would generate its dictionary using wikipedia
20:19:55  <Rubidium> and I'm doing something else ;)
20:20:38  * andythenorth doesn't know what cycloidal is either
20:20:57  <andythenorth> :P
20:21:08  * andythenorth provides support for translating vehicle names
20:26:45  <andythenorth> ho ho
20:26:53  <andythenorth> 10 bazillion lang warnings from nml :P
20:27:06  <andythenorth> I have made it angry by adding new strings :P
20:27:35  <NGC3982> christ
20:27:39  <NGC3982> took a three hour walk today
20:28:14  <Terkhen> andythenorth: what is the difference between a "gas turbine" and a "maritime gas turbine"?
20:28:15  <frosch123> did you get lost?
20:28:19  <NGC3982> no
20:28:36  <andythenorth> Terkhen: I have no idea :)
20:28:48  <andythenorth> one sits on the outside of a hovercraft and is weatherproof I guess
20:28:52  <Terkhen> ok, I'll just translate it verbatim :P
20:28:56  <andythenorth> the other sits inside a ship...and probably isn't :P
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20:35:50  <Blaster> What newgfxs improve city building variety and allow me to build, perhaps, simcity-like cities
20:36:12  <Terkhen> hi Blaster , depends on what you mean with "simcity-like cities"
20:36:15  <andythenorth> ho
20:36:18  * andythenorth crashed ottd
20:36:27  <Blaster> Well, firstly, more building variety
20:36:31  <andythenorth> oh and again :P
20:36:32  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I'm lazy to open my VM and commit the translation, can you commit it instead? :P
20:36:40  <andythenorth> Terkhen: yup :)
20:36:48  <Blaster> I have only seen mods that replace the current buildings, which means there is still the same number of different buildigns
20:36:53  <andythenorth> right now I've done something with strings that crashes ottd :P
20:37:31  <Terkhen> andythenorth: <--- thanks :D
20:38:19  <Terkhen> Blaster: well, there are not many house sets... I only know about swedish houses and TAI, and I don't know how much development the latter saw
20:38:41  <Blaster> More than just houses preferably
20:38:49  <Terkhen> what do you mean?
20:38:50  <FLHerne> TTRS is quite nice, UK TownSet improving to some extent
20:38:56  <Blaster> Maybe multiple ones at the same time would work?
20:39:04  <FLHerne> Both have huge towerblocks and such now
20:39:13  <Terkhen> Blaster: probably not, unless they are made to be compatible
20:39:22  <frosch123> multiple housesets should work fine
20:39:59  * FLHerne finds completely incompatible answers confusing :P
20:40:19  * andythenorth is baffled why this crashes :P
20:40:27  <frosch123> personally i consider ttrs quite ugly though
20:40:29  <Blaster> Secondly, is there anything that would add larger/wider/highertraffic roads?
20:40:35  <Blaster> Like motorways
20:40:40  <NGC3982> motorways <3.
20:41:09  <Terkhen> Blaster: there is IIRC a newgrf which adds eyecandy motorways, but they still work like the normal roads (OpenTTD only has those)
20:41:23  <andythenorth> crash log:
20:41:34  * NGC3982 googles for it.
20:41:37  <andythenorth> I know it's a bad grf string, but I have 'wtf' about which
20:42:06  <Blaster> That newgrf will be fine since default roads already have excessive capacity
20:42:24  <NGC3982> cocoa! \o/
20:42:41  <frosch123> andythenorth: contains no useful info
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20:43:00  <frosch123> maybe plurals or genders?
20:43:08  <frosch123> something whcih references other string parts
20:43:33  <frosch123> andythenorth: just upload the grf to fs
20:43:35  <Blaster> What is the newgrf for eyecandy motorways?
20:43:55  <andythenorth> ach, I think I know what it is
20:44:05  <FLHerne> Blaster/GC398: ?
20:44:53  <FLHerne> I think there might have been another one, too :-)
20:44:59  <andythenorth> I'm relying on returning split('[')[0] on strings that don't contain '['
20:45:31  <Blaster> yeah that looks good
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20:45:59  <andythenorth> hmm
20:46:01  <andythenorth> not that :(
20:46:40  <NGC3982> FLHerne: neat.
20:46:45  <Blaster> And I am still using 1.1.5 ...
20:46:56  <Blaster> Does 1.2 add any new features or is it just bugfixing?
20:47:26  <frosch123> most modern grfs will only work with 1.2
20:48:00  <frosch123> <- for the rest
20:48:13  <Blaster> River generation on creation of map
20:48:14  <Blaster> YUS
20:48:16  * Blaster is happy now
20:48:30  <andythenorth> ha
20:48:31  <andythenorth> fixed
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20:52:28  <NGC3982>
20:52:31  <NGC3982> speaking of maglev..
20:54:44  * andythenorth is duck tape coding
20:54:47  <andythenorth> seems to work
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20:56:36  <andythenorth> python is witty
20:56:39  <andythenorth> this works:         type_suffix = self.title.split('[')[1].split(']')[0]
20:56:51  <andythenorth> despite being quite silly to read
20:57:50  <Blaster> Oh
20:57:57  <Blaster> Those motorways are entirely non-functional
20:58:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: only works as long as you do not nest [ ]
20:58:09  <Blaster> Don't even work like normal roads
20:58:12  <andythenorth> yeah, I won't do that
20:58:20  <frosch123> Blaster: i think you have to build the stuf next to normal roads
20:58:24  <andythenorth> this is a one-shot kind of effort I'm writing here
20:58:32  <andythenorth> anything complicated, it will break :P
21:00:12  <Blaster> Oh, I see
21:00:18  <Blaster> Its supposed to be used with the normal roads
21:01:58  <Terkhen> Blaster: yes, as I mentioned it is only eyecandy
21:04:02  <Blaster> the readme said the roads were unusable and I didn't realise the pieces overlayed the regular roads as opposed to being designed to replace them
21:07:11  <andythenorth> FISH supports translatable names now (the type suffix)
21:07:15  <andythenorth> Hirundo: ^
21:08:12  <andythenorth> names can be seen here if interested
21:08:20  * andythenorth -> bed
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21:10:37  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:12:26  <frosch123> night
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21:15:39  <__ln__>
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21:29:36  <NataS> pretty cool
21:30:33  <FLHerne> But what was it doing up there!? :0
21:30:44  <NataS> doing some sort of black ops mission
21:30:52  <NataS> or maybe it's got nazi zombies on it
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21:39:26  <__ln__> that's an inappropriate comment
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22:20:30  <Terkhen> good night
22:20:47  * Illegal_Alien CUDDLES Terkhen
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