Log for #openttd on 5th August 2012:
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00:36:10  <Wolf01> 'night
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06:53:13  <Zuu_> Morning
06:53:23  <Supercheese> Salve, excitate
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07:30:50  * Supercheese is depressed there is no patchpack that has Signals in Tunnels that is close enough to trunk
07:32:44  <Rubidium> that sounds like a massive contradiction to me
07:33:04  <Supercheese> "based on sufficiently recent trunk revision" perhaps
07:33:11  <Supercheese> version*  whatever
07:33:14  * Supercheese is sleepy
07:33:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood how people can use this patch, if it doesn't work with path signals...
07:34:13  <Supercheese> ANY signals in tunnels is amazing
07:34:20  <Supercheese> and really necessary to create underground railways
07:35:02  <Supercheese> UKRS+ London Underground stuff + Signals in Tunnels results in a great subway system
07:35:19  * Rubidium wouldn't agree with that
07:35:52  <Supercheese> Alas, I lose out on a lot of cool stuff that happened in trunk after  r24122
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07:38:50  <Supercheese> Ah well, decidedly worth it
07:39:27  <Eddi|zuHause> again. i could never find a situation where i could actually _use_ these signals!
07:40:06  <Supercheese> Simple block signals?
07:40:23  <Supercheese> The subways I make are dual-closed-loops
07:40:29  <Supercheese> block signals work fine
07:40:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i _never_ have "simple block signals"
07:40:57  * Supercheese shrugs
07:41:03  <Supercheese> okie dokie then
07:41:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it's simply too much of a restriction
07:41:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and it doesn't even make any sense
07:41:48  <Supercheese> Well as I said, closed loops work fine with them
07:42:04  <Supercheese> all trains going in the same direction, one platform only
07:42:11  <Supercheese> no need to switch anywhere
07:42:46  <Supercheese> one platform per direction per station* that is
07:43:02  <Eddi|zuHause> sure. you can play without signals. just make 100 point-to-point lines.
07:43:07  <Eddi|zuHause> *headbang*
07:43:18  <Supercheese> sigh, not point to point lines
07:43:30  <Supercheese> I'd give you a savegame, but it's a ChillPP savegame
07:43:42  <Supercheese> and has multiple custom grfs I can't distribute T_T
07:44:23  <Eddi|zuHause> there is really no fundamental difference between "use no signals" and "use no switches"
07:45:17  <Supercheese> I think there's a miscommunication somewhere
07:45:24  <Supercheese> not sure where, though
07:45:54  <Supercheese> Probably on my end, I am rather sleepy
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08:38:15  <Wolf01> hello
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08:49:22  <Alberth> moin all
08:52:14  <Wolf01> hello Alberth, god ludde too
08:53:35  <Alberth> :)
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09:42:28  <TheDude> hello
09:42:37  <TheDude> what is wrong with bananas server? Unhandled Exception
09:42:37  <TheDude> An unhandled exception was thrown by the application.
09:43:08  <TheDude> what could cause such exception?
09:46:56  <Ammler> are you able to reproduce it?
09:47:40  <TheDude> yes, every time I try to upload my update
09:51:22  <frosch123> open a fs task (project website,category bananas), attach the file you are trying to upload, and assign it to TrueBrain :)
09:51:46  <frosch123> sorry TrueBrain :p
09:55:48  <TheDude> can you tell me link for project website? anyway, how will this contribute to solution?
09:56:28  <frosch123>
09:56:58  <frosch123> well, since bananas worked fine thursday, i assume there is some problem in the way it handles your file
09:59:19  <TheDude> that is likely
09:59:46  <telanus> helllo
10:01:10  <TheDude> something happened, This GRF is blacklisted :D
10:02:01  <frosch123> you are not allowed to upload grfs which are not yours
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10:04:53  <TheDude> what, I am the author of it!
10:05:09  <TheDude> and I am not uploading it, but updating
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10:07:46  <LordAro> morning
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10:15:09  <Alberth> mornink
10:16:22  <Alberth> that would be a new version, to preserve the previous version, so people can play old save games
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10:22:16  <Terkhen> good morning
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10:31:44  <drac_boy> hi
10:33:24  <TheDude> can you please tell me, who is in charge of banana server?
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10:35:38  <frosch123> darn... why is the micropolis minimap totally broken for me
10:36:05  <frosch123> maybe i should get some nightly snapshot and compile myself
10:39:23  <drac_boy> any of you think its possible to like have one standard gauge, one narrow gauge, and a dual gauge tracktypes? or is there not much in the way of grf coding to make locomotives work on this sort of thing yet?
10:40:03  <frosch123> isn't there already such grf?
10:41:02  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a french narrow gauge set, but i don't know if it contains dual gauge
10:41:15  <Eddi|zuHause> and OberhÃŒmer wanted to make a narrow gauge set at some point
10:41:56  <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, it's definitely possible
10:42:09  <drac_boy> thanks Eddi|zuHause
10:43:09  <drac_boy> would be interesting to have a mixed-gauge junction station where two platforms can serve the narrow gauge from west while the rest of station only has standard gauge for west+east
10:43:38  <drac_boy> of course that'll require some programmed signals (or pbs if it doesn't fail) to sort out the platform useages
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10:45:22  <mohwaqas12> Hey guys, how to comile debug version of openttd
10:45:58  <Ammler> disable-strip
10:46:23  <Alberth> make
10:46:56  <mohwaqas12> i copiled using make , but when i run gdb ./openttd it says no debugging info found
10:47:11  <TrueBrain> frosch123: tasks made under Project Website are automatically assigned to me ;)
10:47:43  <Alberth> mohwaqas12: did you run  ./configure -enable-debug=3  before 'make' ?
10:48:12  <TrueBrain> or just use 'make run-gdb' ;)
10:48:31  <TrueBrain> well, that doesn't enable debugging .. dammit :P
10:49:01  <mohwaqas12> no i did not , let me check it
10:49:02  <Alberth> mohwaqas12: ./configure lets you set build options, and generate a Makefile.  'make' performs the build
10:49:42  <Alberth> 'make run'  builds, and starts the resulting program, and 'make run-gdb' apparently builds and runs the debugger :)
10:49:47  <mohwaqas12> so what debug level should i keep?
10:50:23  <frosch123> why is the micropolis makefile in lower case?
10:50:27  <frosch123> is it not supposed to be run?
10:51:32  <Alberth> --enable-debug   enables debugging symbols, level 3 apparently suppresses optimization, so your debugger sees the same code as you see in the editor
10:51:47  <Alberth> frosch123: hmm, that's a long time ago :)
10:52:31  <Alberth> my guess is it was created at a computer with a case-insensitive file system :p
10:53:14  <mohwaqas12> thanks Alberth , last day i was checking ./configure --help for debugging. i wonder how i missed this debug argument
10:54:14  <Alberth> mohwaqas12: humans are sloppy when reading, we mostly just scan word patterns. :)
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10:55:32  <mohwaqas12> yes rite :)
10:55:49  <Alberth> rite?
10:56:19  <drac_boy> btw just a little real train related question, what was the purpose of 3-axle coaches? they seem to have the same chassis length of a 2-axle one sometimes
10:57:22  <LordAro> TheDude: anything web-related is generally managed by TrueBrain although i think all developers have some control over it
10:57:52  <TrueBrain> LordAro: he was already told waht he should do ... I mean .. spoon-feeding is nextdoor ;)
10:58:39  <LordAro> was he? i'm reading through the logs and i can't see anything :L
10:58:52  <TrueBrain> frosch123 told him in detail, even with a link, what he should do .. what more can I say?
10:59:45  <LordAro> in this channel? i didn't get it...
11:00:07  <TrueBrain> then I am afraid you fail to read :D
11:00:10  <TrueBrain> as it is right after he asked
11:00:18  <TrueBrain> like 3 minutes later :P
11:00:46  <TrueBrain> he even replied to it in ack of what was said, so for sure he read it ;)
11:01:26  <LordAro> @logs
11:01:26  <DorpsGek> LordAro:
11:02:11  <LordAro> "[10:57:01] <TheDude> can you please tell me, who is in charge of banana server?" <-- i see no reply to that...
11:02:16  * frosch123 thinks the micropolis *nix port is not actively maintained
11:02:21  <TrueBrain> that is because a reply to that is irrelevant LordAro
11:02:27  <TrueBrain> he got the information what he should do with his problem
11:03:04  <LordAro> whatever, i only joined after the 'main' conversation :P
11:03:13  <Alberth> frosch123: that would be quite possible, simhacker is only doing the web-frontend afaik
11:03:25  <LordAro> and it seemed to me that no one replied to him...
11:03:31  <TrueBrain> LordAro: hehe :)
11:04:12  * LordAro is spamming this link everywhere today:
11:04:41  <TrueBrain> ugh :P SPAMMER! ;)
11:05:21  <TrueBrain> (j/k ofc)
11:06:05  <LordAro> (the ";)" was a give away ;) )
11:06:11  <LordAro> also the all caps :P
11:06:54  <TrueBrain> I should kick myself for that :D
11:07:25  <LordAro> you should indeed :P
11:11:47  <TheDude> yes, but after some more tries to update newgrf it told me it is blacklisted, what does it exactly mean?
11:12:11  <TheDude> hi Truebrain, you can give me some advise or info about banana updating?
11:13:02  <TrueBrain> [11:14] <frosch123> open a fs task (project website,category bananas), attach the file you are trying to upload, and assign it to TrueBrain :)
11:13:04  <TrueBrain> [11:15] <frosch123> sorry TrueBrain :p
11:13:05  <TrueBrain> [11:19] <TheDude> can you tell me link for project website? anyway, how will this contribute to solution?
11:13:07  <TrueBrain> [11:20] <frosch123>
11:14:06  <TheDude> so the message that newgrf is blacklisted is some sort of bug?
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11:15:02  <frosch123> bah... micropolis trunk is for touchscreens
11:15:25  <frosch123> any i have no idea what the pacmans on the map mean
11:15:38  <Alberth> it's still in?
11:15:44  <Alberth> :D
11:15:53  <frosch123> what? the pacmans?
11:16:10  <Alberth> it was little proof of concept for 'helpers' iirc
11:16:23  <Alberth> the pac man is 'eating traffic'
11:16:23  <frosch123> :p
11:16:58  <frosch123> damn, should i try to update to an older version which is not meant for touchscreens
11:17:08  <frosch123> or should i start up dosbox and use the original?
11:17:26  <frosch123> the usability if almost near zero
11:18:05  <Alberth> simhacker is pushing towards web-enabled, community-based
11:18:17  <Alberth> so touch screen makes sense in that context
11:18:27  <Alberth> let me have a look what revision I have here
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11:20:16  <frosch123> well, let's try to get used to the touchscreen stuff
11:20:51  <drac_boy> frosch123 as long as it still works with a normal mouse cursor too
11:20:56  <drac_boy> :)
11:23:19  <Alberth> I have revision 389 here, of around april 2009, when some other project wanted to make me dev :p
11:24:02  <Alberth> after that I think the C/C++ backend + the gtk port stopped being developed
11:24:06  <frosch123> one of the pacmans causes a lot of crime
11:24:22  <frosch123> i am using gtk
11:24:39  <Alberth> at least I looked a year or so back, and it did not seem to have moved much
11:24:55  <Alberth> oh, perhaps gtk itself has switched to touch screens?
11:27:38  <frosch123> well, maybe i was wrong with touchscreens
11:27:42  <frosch123> as i have to use the rmb
11:29:12  <Alberth> enable 'left-handed' so the buttons get swapped :)
11:31:11  <frosch123> somehow i have the impression, police stations have no effect at all compared to original simcity
11:32:14  <frosch123> also, how do i open a gas mask concession?
11:34:45  <Eddi|zuHause> in sim city, these things were done from the budget menu
11:37:45  <frosch123> hmm, i cannot build a stadium...
11:38:16  <Eddi|zuHause> is that game worth a try or should i leave my hands off it?
11:39:10  <frosch123> it's the same as original simcity; except it is not restricted to the dos screen resolution
11:39:16  <frosch123> but it seems to add various bugs
11:42:22  <frosch123> i have not yet decided whether they make it unplayable
11:43:11  <drac_boy> perhaps find where the original open-sourced source was and see?
11:43:16  <drac_boy> dunno tbh :)
11:43:28  <frosch123> i have a svn checkout
11:43:50  <frosch123> first i used the debian package, but the minimap was broken
11:44:19  <frosch123> now i am using svn head with changes to make it compile, but it has other bugs :p
11:45:02  <drac_boy> :p
11:45:12  <frosch123> ah, now i was able to construct a stadium
11:45:30  <frosch123> maybe it thought i did not have enough money
11:45:31  <Alberth> drac_boy: that's tcl/tk and C, and runs at a unix system only. It's also a bigger mess to get it running
11:45:37  <frosch123> in original simcity it cost 3000
11:45:52  <frosch123> i should have enough money, but i acutally cannot check, as the money display is broken :p
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11:46:12  * Alberth finds it frightening that people know such numbers :p
11:46:24  <frosch123> :p
11:46:38  <frosch123> children have good memory
11:47:00  <frosch123> ofc i know the price of all stuff in the games i played at age of 8 or 10
11:47:08  <Alberth> :)
11:47:37  <Alberth> It's no different than knowing that 0x60 was RTS in 6502 machine language, I guess :D
11:48:01  <frosch123> yup :)
11:48:17  <frosch123> stupid pacmans
11:48:31  <frosch123> now i even get newspapers that the polution i very high there
11:48:37  <drac_boy> heh heh
11:48:43  <frosch123> they produce both crime and polution
11:48:48  <frosch123> maybe i can bulldoze them
11:48:49  * drac_boy really has only played with simcity 2000 collection :-s
11:49:04  <Alberth> plant trees
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11:52:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember about original SimCity that nuclear meltdowns were way too common, and then you could basically throw away the game
11:52:27  <Eddi|zuHause> and people never built anywhere except near forest
11:53:13  <Eddi|zuHause> and then we found the money cheat, which you could do like 5 times and then it caused an earthquake
11:54:16  <Eddi|zuHause> the "solution" to that was to use it before you started the city :)
11:56:04  <Eddi|zuHause> and if you built a police/fire station every time they asked for one, you were guaranteed to never get positive budget
11:56:08  <Alberth> I found nuclear meltdown lots of fun, time for major damage control and rebuilding
11:59:34  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yup, same about funds for me
11:59:47  <frosch123> but the money issue i only had with sc2000
11:59:58  <frosch123> i was never able to fujnd a new power plant after 30 years
11:59:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i never had money issues in sc2000
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12:00:22  * drac_boy never ever used powerplants at all tbh
12:00:25  <frosch123> so i always played on custom maps with lot of places for water plants
12:00:31  <frosch123> as they had no lifetime
12:00:41  <Eddi|zuHause> jup :)
12:00:44  <drac_boy> yeah it was pretty much always a hydro there and there .. sometimes bunched sometimes not depending on terrain
12:01:02  <drac_boy> sometimes there'll be a few hydro right in middle of downtown but eh
12:01:13  * FLHerne used to build large blocks of oil plants :P
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12:01:41  <drac_boy> never had lot of energy but at same time the energy graph line never went below 10 on the other hand
12:02:37  <Chris_Booth> hi
12:03:12  <drac_boy> I usually put light industry somewhere a bit far away tho... never ever dense zoned either
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12:06:12  <Eddi|zuHause> what was the point of "light" anything? except near airport, i always used dense
12:06:55  <Eddi|zuHause> in sc4, light industry meant agriculture. and most buildings are medium
12:07:18  <drac_boy> much less pollution
12:07:28  <drac_boy> but still just as much jobs apparently
12:07:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i never cared for pollution, really
12:08:03  <drac_boy> well I don't like having a thick fog over the residental areas
12:08:11  <drac_boy> reminds me too much of the london smog problem after all :P
12:08:15  <TrueBrain> TheDude: you got a reply on your FS, and on your thread. Hope you can figure it out :)
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12:10:01  <TheDude> thank you
12:11:49  <TheDude> ok, if I got it right, if I change licence to GPL v2nd include source, all be happy?
12:23:46  <TrueBrain> I _think_ so, but I haven't really looked into it tbh :)
12:28:19  <TheDude> ok, I will just change it, it should make things clear, thanks for help
12:46:38  <frosch123> haha, the save buttons are broken :p
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13:07:58  <andythenorth> bonjour
13:15:23  <andythenorth> my toddler wants diagonal tunnels
13:15:39  <andythenorth> he has gone to lie down in a corner and is being silent and sad because I can't make one
13:16:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i should have done that years ago...
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13:19:18  <frosch123> turn the screen
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13:20:26  <Alberth> a tunnel from bottom-left to top-right of the screen is pretty much diagonal :p
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13:41:40  <frosch123> hmm, my town collapsed :s
13:41:52  <frosch123> from 100000 to 30000 in two years
13:42:07  <frosch123> i doubt i can recover from this
13:45:00  <telanus> nuke the place and start ove?
13:45:08  <telanus> over?*
13:46:35  <frosch123> hmm, maybe i overrated roads
13:46:50  <frosch123> got back from 5000 to 43000
13:47:00  <frosch123> though almost all roads and rails are gone
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13:52:40  <andythenorth> frosch123: what caused it? :)
13:52:57  <frosch123> i had trouble with cash flow
13:53:07  <frosch123> and change police funding and taxes a bit
13:53:17  <frosch123> taxed from 7 to 8
13:53:22  <frosch123> police from 100 to 80 or so
13:53:30  <andythenorth> oh you're playing Sim City
13:53:39  <Chris_Booth> lol
13:53:48  <Chris_Booth> SC4 I gurss
13:53:50  <Chris_Booth> guess
13:53:54  <frosch123> sc1
13:54:07  <Chris_Booth> since it was impossible to go bankrupt in any SC before SC4
13:54:15  <Chris_Booth> frosch123: you must suck at SC1 then
13:54:25  <frosch123> yup
13:54:48  <Chris_Booth> you played SC2 MP?
13:54:51  <Chris_Booth> that is a right laugh
13:54:59  <frosch123> no
13:55:13  <Chris_Booth> go buy it and play it with a friend
13:55:16  <frosch123> Chris_Booth: i reached 100k pop and everything was running fine
13:55:24  <frosch123> then it collapsed within 2 minutes
13:55:29  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: road funding was always weird...
13:55:48  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: any value below 100% almost immediately makes your network disappear
13:56:26  <Eddi|zuHause> although SC1 had a "bug" where roads never disappear if they have electric lines above
13:56:36  <frosch123> now people are moving out again
13:56:44  <frosch123> i guess they noticed that there are no roads anymore :p
14:01:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i think at one point we always set traffic funding to 0, built no roads and only rails, with all tiles electric wires above, even crossings
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14:03:28  <frosch123> oh, now you mention it... indeed tiles with wires are not cleared
14:03:48  <frosch123> so, is sc1 only playable with chears? :p
14:05:40  <andythenorth> frosch123: just drop tax before election time
14:05:48  <andythenorth> then max it out straight afterwards
14:06:11  <andythenorth> I always lost to traffic and pollution though :P
14:11:07  <frosch123> well, i just assumed if they complain about taxes the most, then they have nothing to really complain
15:01:51  <TrueBrain> General Notice: while I update all VPSes of OpenTTD, you can expect some slight hickups in regards of kernel updates etc
15:07:43  <LordAro> yay! an active sys-admin!
15:07:51  <TrueBrain> where?
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15:13:00  <drac_boy> hi
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15:36:42  <TrueBrain> 3 done, 6 to go .. first some food :)
15:37:46  <drac_boy> heh heh
15:37:58  * drac_boy is more like 0 ordered, 10+ to order :-s
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15:41:18  * drac_boy throws more non-bugs bugs at andythenorth
15:41:19  <drac_boy> heh :P
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16:59:26  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: rail only does not exactly seem to work :p
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17:04:37  <TrueBrain> right, back to updating ... let's see ... ah, yes, masterserver
17:10:23  <TrueBrain> lolz, every machine Igive a kernel upgrade: /dev/xvda1 has gone 332 days without being checked, check forced.
17:10:26  <TrueBrain> TAKES FOREVER :'(
17:11:52  <frosch123> you might not want to run multiple checkruns on the same disk in parallel
17:12:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't suppose there is a way to autocheck files like at 5AM every 1st of the month?
17:12:14  <Eddi|zuHause> *filesystems
17:12:16  <TrueBrain> frosch123: it doesn't happen on the same disk ;)
17:12:23  <TrueBrain> they are virtual disks, just being named identical; that is all :)
17:12:26  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i think you cannot check them while mounted
17:12:42  <frosch123> TrueBrain: but there is only one hardware behind it
17:13:00  <TrueBrain> there is, yes
17:13:07  <TrueBrain> btw, I am not updating all VMs at the same time, that would be stupid
17:13:53  <TrueBrain> my complaint is merely the fact the downtime is more than 5 seconds :P
17:14:54  <TrueBrain> okay, all frontend machines are updated ... now the hard part ... the backends ...
17:18:52  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: well, you can just disable the autocheck...
17:21:09  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: by the time I see it, it is too late :P
17:21:34  <TrueBrain> I don't really mind the check btw, it just takes for ever (at least, it feels that way :P)
17:21:53  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i know that feeling :)
17:23:54  <TrueBrain> okay ... here goes ldap ....
17:23:56  * TrueBrain crosses fingers
17:26:10  * TrueBrain dances
17:27:05  <TrueBrain> hmm, debian updates overwrite motd
17:27:07  <TrueBrain> annoying :P
17:27:36  <TrueBrain> even more as it trashes the old content
17:27:44  <TrueBrain> bah ... I wrote such good stories there!
17:28:13  <TrueBrain> owh, booting your system does
17:28:15  <TrueBrain> haha
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17:45:53  <TrueBrain> and there goes our MySQL ... that will hurt :P
17:50:18  <TrueBrain> and now finally ... our gateway
17:55:23  <TrueBrain> and poef, then all of OpenTTD services went awol :P
17:55:37  <TrueBrain> lets see if it can reboot before things detect their cannot reach the internet :P
17:55:53  <TrueBrain> s/their/they/
17:57:38  <TrueBrain> @whoami
17:57:41  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: TrueBrain
17:57:45  <TrueBrain> ha, lolz :D
18:04:02  <TrueBrain> we use 0.5 TiB per month on our main server atm :P
18:04:35  <TrueBrain> k, all updating done and set; lemme know if there are any issues / problems /etc
18:06:28  <__ln__> @whereami
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18:11:51  <Eddi|zuHause> @whatknowi
18:12:53  <Alberth> <nothing>    apparently :D
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18:14:17  <frosch123> ah, figured out the trick in micropolis
18:14:23  <frosch123> make a small citiy which makes some profit
18:14:28  <frosch123> set speed to astonomically fast
18:14:36  <frosch123> wait for some 100k
18:14:39  <frosch123> do whatever you want
18:15:57  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the SimCity creator's obsession with Llamas anyway?
18:16:37  <Eddi|zuHause> now i remember why i quit playing SC4... it crashes at random times
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19:12:42  <__ln__>
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19:45:51  <andythenorth> so everyone is on vacation or what?
19:46:09  <__ln__> not yet
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19:52:20  <drac_boy> hi
19:53:48  <Rubidium> andythenorth: lies... some are just working hard on important not yet visible stuff
19:58:45  *** Absolutis [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:20:36  <andythenorth> meh
20:20:55  <andythenorth> coding without an irc monologue on what's being done? :P
20:21:03  <andythenorth> how quaint
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20:23:50  <drac_boy> andythenorth well I don't bother anyway? :) heh heh
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20:35:41  <drac_boy> btw does anyone here recall the name of that particular station on metre gauge in swizterland? it was like a U shape with station on one leg of it ... unusual for real rails
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20:40:06  <Supercheese> So, I went and made an Electricity/Powerlines GRF. The power plants produce electricity, which is carried on power lines and  delivered to substations, the "vehicles" are lightning-fast "sparks". Honestly, the gameplay is... really dull :(
20:40:45  <Supercheese> Create "single-track" point-to-point line, stick a vehicle on it, collect money, zzzzz
20:40:46  <andythenorth> for why dull?
20:41:00  <Supercheese> Upgrade to higher voltages as the years go by
20:41:18  <Supercheese> It needs some spice, maybe like Engineering/Farm supply mechanics in FIRS
20:41:23  <andythenorth> you should make the vehicles individual electrons :P
20:41:32  <Supercheese> deliver electricity to other industries to increase production
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20:41:35  <andythenorth> or units of potential or such
20:41:42  <Supercheese> but that would make the code zillions of times more complex
20:41:43  * andythenorth can't remember electrical physics :P
20:41:57  <Supercheese> The current units of "electricity" are kW*h
20:42:08  <Supercheese> it's what my meter outside reads :P
20:42:53  <Supercheese> also, I have no good sprites for the vehicle purchase menu
20:43:18  <Supercheese> Just keep the sparks? Or stick a little generator-looking unit in the purchase menu?
20:43:32  <andythenorth> hmm
20:43:38  <Supercheese> Bigger sparks for higher voltages? :P
20:43:52  <andythenorth> force the power station to produce at 22Kv or whatever
20:43:59  <Supercheese> Currently I've only reused base set sprites
20:44:04  <andythenorth> but make the destination only accept at 1500v or so
20:44:16  <Supercheese> Hey, waypoint transformers
20:44:16  <andythenorth> then have substations that adjust voltage :P
20:44:28  <Supercheese> Well, currently you just dump everything into blackhole substations
20:44:37  <Supercheese> as I said, booooring gameplay
20:45:27  <Supercheese> Figure I'll just disable signal sprites entirely
20:45:57  <Supercheese> The sparks take maybe 1 tick to reach their destination, so they're really not needed
20:46:37  <Supercheese> Problem is, FIRS has no power plants, and also has maxed cargo slots too IIRC
20:46:59  <Supercheese> NARS just needs to get rid of it's silly regearing cargo
20:47:08  <Supercheese> free up an extra slot for everyone
20:51:11  <Supercheese> Also a major problem is NML does not support stations
20:51:20  <Supercheese> and I do not want to mess with NFO
20:51:42  <drac_boy> just do the station in nfo and the rest of grf in nml? dunno what to tell you tbh :)
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20:53:54  <Supercheese> Hah, just found another problem, the level crossing bells ding for "crossings"
20:54:04  <Supercheese> Ding ding, there are overhead power lines... :P
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20:54:57  <Supercheese> Well I'll be danged, there was a Station coding tutorial just posted
20:55:06  <Supercheese> less than an hour ago, it seems
20:55:35  * Supercheese investigates
20:56:00  * drac_boy never ever had any of the game sounds on anyway
20:56:14  <drac_boy> it'll be drowned out by the media player in background anyhow :)
20:56:27  <Supercheese> yeah, I had to turn off my music to hear it too
20:56:50  <Super_Random|2> some people are mean
20:56:53  <Super_Random|2> 2?
20:56:55  <Super_Random|2> what?
20:57:08  *** Super_Random|2 is now known as Super_Random
20:57:36  <Super_Random> some people were ddos-ing a charity stream
21:01:06  <Supercheese> So hmm, code the stations in NFO, export the NML to NFO, combine and NFORenum the lot?
21:02:33  <Eddi|zuHause> or finally implement station support in nml?
21:02:48  <Supercheese> Well, that would be optimal obviously ;)
21:03:03  <Eddi|zuHause> go ahead then :p
21:03:06  <Supercheese> I'm not going to try and develop that myself, ofc
21:05:46  * drac_boy doesn't have much comment on nml for obvious reason yet anyhow
21:05:57  <drac_boy> kinda a bit surprised now that stations aren't in there tho?! :-s
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21:08:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure why stations are not implemented. maybe it lacks inspiration how to sensibly specify tile layouts
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21:16:28  <frosch123> it lacks the right idea how to abstract all that station nonsense of tilelayout and spritelayouts into a nml spec
21:17:16  <Eddi|zuHause> deprecate the station spec and make a new one based on industry/object stuff?
21:17:43  <frosch123> who knows :)
21:19:32  <drac_boy> eddi thats assuming ottd would know how to read both formats for sake of grfs that wouldn't be updated for quite some time?
21:20:07  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: yes.
21:21:32  <drac_boy> fair enough, don't have any complains or comments then :)
21:22:22  <Eddi|zuHause> z
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21:23:14  <Eddi|zuHause> the point would be that the old code would be pushed into a somewhat unmaintained state, while the new code would be shared between stations/industries/objects/airports etc.
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21:23:51  <Eddi|zuHause> and the only thing in nml that needs to be changed is the feature number
21:23:57  <frosch123> except that industries and airports are similiar
21:24:02  <frosch123> while objects are different
21:24:18  <frosch123> stations would likely easier fit into the object style
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21:25:07  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: what about road/tram stations then?
21:25:29  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: they would be closer to airports (with state machine etc.) than rail stations?
21:25:54  <Eddi|zuHause> but then you still need additional magic to construct "platforms" out of multiple adjacent stations
21:27:12  <Terkhen> good night
21:35:41  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: how about ripping out the state machine of airports instead :p
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21:46:50  <Eddi|zuHause> yes but nobody dared to do that yet either :p
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21:48:46  <frosch123> i have a patch for it
21:48:56  <frosch123> it's against r6907 though
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21:56:17  <Eddi|zuHause> that is truly ancient :)
21:56:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that's even before the two all-patch-breaking commits :p
21:57:18  <Eddi|zuHause> (makefile rewrite and c++ port)
22:03:21  <frosch123> <- note that there is no station sign
22:04:21  <frosch123> only the terminals were supposed to be stations with a catchment area of a busstop :)
22:05:18  <frosch123> also note the stupid placement of the picker windows above the toolbar in that ancient ottd :p
22:05:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i already noticed that :)
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22:24:13  <drac_boy> hm that reminds me I should check about any updates to the grf just to be sure my tracking table is still current
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22:44:15  <Wolf01> 'night
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