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00:09:03 *** nicfer [~Administr@190.50.19.211] has joined #openttd 00:09:07 <nicfer> hello 00:10:16 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.130.25] has joined #openttd 00:11:45 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:27 <nicfer> I'm trying to setup mingw for compiling openttd but when ./configure-ing, I get a pack of 'HOSTNAME.EXE - entry point not found' errors 00:13:32 <nicfer> below also says 'Unable to find entry point s_perror in the dynamic link library MSWSOCK.dll' 00:23:24 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.134.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:29:34 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176113041.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 00:29:44 <drac_boy> hi 00:32:01 <glx> nicfer: followed the tutorial ? 00:34:38 <drac_boy> someone trying to create a small grf? 00:43:33 <drac_boy> guess so 01:15:21 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 01:24:58 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d820057.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 01:44:23 <nicfer> glx, yes I'm following http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_MinGW 01:49:13 <glx> the errors are strange 01:54:11 <nicfer> the configuring continues however 01:58:52 *** ivan` [~ivan`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:02:41 *** ivan` [~ivan`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #openttd 02:02:49 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 02:10:56 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04D96.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:39 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-99-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 02:14:39 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-99-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:16 *** neofutur [~neofutur@neofutur.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:17:38 <neofutur> hi all, since luukland will stop operating i ve setup my open citybuilder server on a dedicated server using the city builder patch 02:17:57 <neofutur> the server is working, but i also need a patched client to use it ? 02:18:27 <neofutur> i understand the server have to be patched, but ewhy a default 1.2.1 client couldnt connect and use it ? 02:19:47 <neofutur> ( I used http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=57138 ) 02:26:22 <neofutur> no way to use a city builder server with the default binary ? 02:26:31 <neofutur> only people able to patch and compile can use it ? 02:50:57 *** pugi_ [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-046-254.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 02:56:54 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-042-140.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:56:56 *** pugi_ is now known as pugi 03:00:44 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176113041.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 03:09:53 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04D96.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 03:11:53 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-046-254.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 03:12:03 <neofutur> I could build the server on gento but on ubuntu i get a linking error building the client : 03:12:06 <neofutur> http://p.gw.gd/index.php/view/52a1f871 03:12:49 <neofutur> ( on ubuntu LTS ) 03:22:16 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.130.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:26:55 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:55a0:d5c9:bf87:d4d0] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:28:45 *** KouDy [~KouDy@231.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 03:29:21 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:45 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.130.25] has joined #openttd 03:52:34 <neofutur> ok i could fix it, the makefile was not lookingfor the good libicu* in /usr/local , using the old ones in /usr/lib 04:34:01 * neofutur playing his first city builder game on his own server 04:45:26 *** Chrill [Chrill@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 04:52:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6AA93.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 04:57:09 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-28-241.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 04:57:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C2A4.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:03:57 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-28-241.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:32:11 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67034.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:32:27 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC676BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:42:23 <Rubidium> neofutur: the game state in OpenTTD is too big to be send every tick, or to be updated every few ticks. Imagine downloading a savegame every tick. So OpenTTD makes the server and all clients perform the same tasks by only sending the user initiated commands. If a patch changes anything that modifies the logical program flow of the game state, then both sides need to be the same 05:53:18 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:07:37 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@172.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 06:13:18 *** KouDy [~KouDy@231.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:32:33 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 06:35:13 *** ludde [~b@c80-217-210-102.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 06:42:59 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 06:46:20 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 06:47:52 *** nicfer [~Administr@190.50.19.211] has left #openttd [] 07:04:57 <planetmaker> moin 07:05:02 <Supercheese> Salve 07:05:30 <planetmaker> neofutur: if you want citybuilder with default client, then I suggest to implement that via game script 07:05:59 <planetmaker> It's feasible and there are even some game scripts to a similar end around which could possibly be something to get started from 07:08:54 <planetmaker> neofutur: http://bananas.openttd.org/en/gs/ there's already 3 dealing with town growth to some extent 07:12:15 *** Warod [warod@2001:1bc8:1004::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:12:52 *** Defaultti [defaultti@kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:15:57 *** ludde [~b@c80-217-210-102.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:21:17 *** ludde [~b@c80-217-210-102.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 07:22:07 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-105-97.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:26:24 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.64.193] has joined #openttd 07:27:13 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-99-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:31:08 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-105-97.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:43:48 *** telanus [~telanus@196-210-226-47.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 07:57:20 <NGC3982> neofutur: city builder game? 07:57:49 * NGC3982 googles. 07:57:55 <NGC3982> C*, G*. 08:25:37 *** Defaultti [defaultti@kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 08:26:11 *** Warod [warod@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 08:30:00 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:35:50 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.130.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:38:28 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 08:42:00 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 09:21:42 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:25:34 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-046-254.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:49:16 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 10:38:15 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.130.25] has joined #openttd 10:42:29 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-97-92.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:00:45 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176113041.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 11:00:59 <drac_boy> hi 11:05:31 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:07:44 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Hi :-) 11:08:09 <drac_boy> how're you FLHerne? any new tiles yet? :p 11:08:13 <drac_boy> heh heh 11:23:40 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.65] has joined #openttd 11:26:08 <drac_boy> hi perk11 11:26:19 <perk11> drac_boy: hi 11:27:37 *** Timberdragon [Timberdrag@CPE-58-173-177-11.wucz1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:28:53 <drac_boy> how're you? 11:33:54 <Timberdragon> Hi guys, I'm keen to work on a 32bit base set for OTTD however ive spent the last week reading the forums and wiki and i seem to be chasing my tail through a mixture of outdated and inccorect information... is there a single absolute source for information regarding building base sets and graphic formats for the current 1.2.* version of the game? 11:34:40 <planetmaker> Timberdragon: the single important information is: 32bpp is not treated different from 8bpp 11:35:03 <planetmaker> you need 8bpp and you can supply in the same package also 32bpp for the sprites 11:35:11 <planetmaker> by the same means virtually 11:35:57 <Timberdragon> yes, i intend to just down sample from the full 32bit versions, but i find all the info confusing 11:37:00 <Timberdragon> im not a fly by nighter i contributed to the opensource project BOSwars massively and im really keen to make a nice set for OTTD 11:37:15 <planetmaker> if you want to create anything 32bpp: just make a normal (8bpp) newgrf. And supply the 32bpp sprites within that newgrf as alternatives to the 8bpp sprites 11:37:49 <planetmaker> I'd like to refer you to ogfx+trains as newgrf example 11:38:00 <Timberdragon> Is the primary tool still the grfcodec? 11:38:06 <planetmaker> you can use that. 11:38:15 <planetmaker> My recommendation is to write in NML, though instead of NFO 11:38:37 <Timberdragon> do you know of any GUI's for either of those by anychance? 11:38:45 <planetmaker> ogfx-trains and zbase are both written in NML 11:39:03 <planetmaker> newgrfs are programmed. It's not just imaged attached to existing objects 11:39:21 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Main 11:40:51 <V453000> NML is very easy programming :) even I managed to learn that :p 11:40:58 <V453000> somewhat anyway 11:41:09 <drac_boy> :p 11:41:41 <drac_boy> I'm sticking to nfo for a reason but then thats to our own ways tho :) 11:42:00 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:42:29 <Timberdragon> :) im not a programmer either but i learned to hackishly use LUA for the other project, can i start with the standard base set and edit the grphics/details without building the files from scratch? 11:43:03 <planetmaker> you can start with the standard base set and just add 32bpp sprites to it. Yes 11:43:22 <Ammler> doesn't zbase exactly this? 11:44:05 <planetmaker> Which basically is what zbase, too: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbuild http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/zbuild/push/LATEST/ 11:47:59 <Timberdragon> Is zbase the project to combine all the exisiting 32bit works into 1 file? 11:55:04 <FLHerne> Timberdragon: Not really, it's a project to make a complete 32bpp baseset, ignoring all existing graphics :P 11:56:13 <FLHerne> Apparently licensing issues keep getting in the way when trying to sort out the existing ones... 11:56:28 <Timberdragon> yes i understand 11:58:33 <Timberdragon> i recall now, zbase is controlled pretty much by a single person. i recall reading the forum post, it was the reason i thought of doing a seperate base set 11:58:58 <Timberdragon> i wasnt blown away by what i seen there 11:59:13 <Timberdragon> unlike some of the original 32bit graphics 11:59:33 <FLHerne> At least it'll get done :P 11:59:48 <Timberdragon> perhaps :) 12:00:15 <FLHerne> Zephyris did a lot of the current 8bpp graphics, IIRC 12:00:39 <Timberdragon> for the default opengfx set? 12:01:16 <Timberdragon> if so that kind of makes sence as the 32bit still look a bit 8bittish to me that is all 12:02:01 <FLHerne> Indeed. I think he's trying to do it in the same style 12:02:10 <V453000> that is just because he doesnt use many colours in there. Uses 32bpp colours which arent in 8bpp but the variety is not there 12:02:12 <planetmaker> Timberdragon: Zephyris provided 70% of the 8bpp graphics. He'll get done the 32bpp, too 12:02:24 <V453000> I believe he will change some things in the future :) 12:02:43 <planetmaker> goal for now is: get it done, working. Beautification is for then 12:02:57 <V453000> ^ :) 12:03:43 <Timberdragon> im not having a go at the guy, i think the 8bit set is fantastic and true to the original game. I also understand what he says about "getting it done" and sorting out the details later 12:04:08 <planetmaker> the problem with the existing 32bpp graphics is: *someone* has to sort through. All I always got was "it's basically done", but... nothing I could work with other than I'd have to look at everything myself, too 12:04:31 <planetmaker> as such nothing was really done there 12:04:47 <planetmaker> and each and everything needs checking for the licenses and available models, too 12:05:29 <planetmaker> anyway, that's all beside the point :-) 12:05:36 <FLHerne> Presumably any other 32bpp baseset could use exactly the same NML as zbase, given they'd have the same sprites etc? 12:05:58 <planetmaker> yes, of course. You'll have to adjust all your offsets though, of course, too 12:06:11 <Timberdragon> i understand totally. I'm very good at getting things done however my filing systems suck hard and im not very good at saving sources, hence the reason i would just prefer to work on a stand alone set X) 12:06:23 <planetmaker> except if you do it like Zephyris who alignes the sprites mostly such that offsets are all 0 12:07:21 <planetmaker> well, please do, Timberdragon :-) 12:07:46 <planetmaker> if you like, I'd also be happy to provide you the same technical facilities as to Zephyris' base set 12:07:49 <V453000> you can always provide those sprites/models to anything else in the end 12:08:41 <Timberdragon> plantmaker: you may live to regret the technical assistance offer X) 12:08:54 <Timberdragon> ..and my spelling sucks X) 12:09:42 <Timberdragon> please if you guys have a minute check out boswars dot org for some of my other work 12:10:01 <planetmaker> Timberdragon: technical assistence doesn't include the programming ;-) I'm busy enough, I'm afraid, with 1.5 base sets at my hand 12:10:32 <Timberdragon> yeah i understand 12:10:43 <planetmaker> but it includes the setup of a repository so that the DevZone could - if you use it - build your your base sets on a somewhat daily basis, too 12:11:29 <Timberdragon> ill see if i can get going before i trouble you for that service 12:11:53 <planetmaker> easiest approach probably is to 12:11:57 <planetmaker> - clone opengfx 12:12:04 <planetmaker> - start adding your new sprites to it 12:12:09 <Timberdragon> that is what i am thinking 12:12:36 <planetmaker> the alternative is to make NewGRFs 12:13:00 <planetmaker> which intially might give "better" (in the sense of complete and easier usable) results 12:13:50 <planetmaker> like a newgrf only replacing landscape (tiles, foundations, water...). another all infrastructure (road, rail, bridges, stations), a third rail vehicles, fourth road vehicles, ... 12:13:57 <planetmaker> would not be really more complicated 12:14:26 <planetmaker> and give easier the rewarding "success!" feeling when one part is finished. And when users then will jump to use it - with what ever other graphics they use 12:14:43 <planetmaker> and newgrfs are easier added to a game than a base set switched. I believe 12:16:00 <V453000> the problem is he would have to code that newGRF I guess 12:16:13 <Timberdragon> i understand the principal, though i really hate programming and txt editing, id much prefer to work my way through a base set and replace the sprites 12:16:42 <planetmaker> yes... but programming a simple replacement newgrf is not more difficult than a base grf really. All you need is the grf header 12:17:00 <planetmaker> other than that it's mostly replace(xxx, ...) instead of base_sprite(xxx, ...) 12:17:16 <planetmaker> just telling :-) 12:17:31 <V453000> oh, that way :) well that could be simple 12:17:57 <V453000> how many sprites is opengfx? 12:18:02 <planetmaker> 10k approx 12:18:07 <V453000> yeah, thats a lot 12:18:26 <V453000> making smaller pieces of separate newGRF is a bit more motivating :) 12:18:31 <Timberdragon> what i really need is to have a look insinde a newgrf file, how can i bust one open? 12:18:36 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.130.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:18:53 <drac_boy> grfcodec decoding Timberdragon 12:18:54 <planetmaker> you don#t want to look into a NewGRF file. You want to look into the source code of one 12:19:11 <planetmaker> decoding by grfcodec for that purpose, honestly, is a very bad idea 12:19:21 <NGC3982> I tried that. 12:19:23 <NGC3982> Didn't work. 12:19:24 <Timberdragon> to study file and folder structure? 12:19:27 <planetmaker> it's as unreadable and un-understandable as you can get, close to binary / hex code 12:19:29 <drac_boy> why? it gives you the exact nfo file used :) 12:19:39 <planetmaker> which is... stupid. Really stupid 12:19:41 <V453000> hoho, havent even tried that luckily :) 12:19:56 <NGC3982> To learn NewGRF coding demands looking into NML files, not GRF files, right? 12:20:01 <NGC3982> At least that's how i feel. 12:20:03 <planetmaker> no comments. no structure, no flow, no context 12:20:05 <drac_boy> NGC3982 its not grf :) 12:20:09 <V453000> nml and sprites 12:20:15 <planetmaker> NGC3982: yes, that#s what I'd suggest 12:20:24 <NGC3982> drac_boy: Oh? I kind of fell into the conversation by context here. :p 12:20:36 <drac_boy> planetmaker did you somehow miss that nfo does have comments in a lot of files? :) 12:20:44 <drac_boy> NGC3982 heh ok 12:20:44 <NGC3982> planetmaker: I see. 12:21:03 <planetmaker> drac_boy: action 0C is by far not sufficient to count as "properly commented" 12:21:16 <drac_boy> planetmaker its not action 12:21:28 <planetmaker> you're advising people to learn assembler. While they can learn C++. So to speak 12:21:36 * drac_boy points to the slashes 12:21:54 <planetmaker> drac_boy: THAT will NOT be available if you *decode* like *you* suggested 12:22:06 <planetmaker> try again your argument chain please 12:22:07 <drac_boy> planetmaker really? then how come I have a bunch of them from grf folders? 12:22:25 <drac_boy> hrm 12:22:39 <V453000> why would you decode a newgrf anyway? :D 12:22:45 <V453000> you either have source of it or not 12:23:11 <Timberdragon> :| ekk, sorry , i just meant i want to look at what goes into a newgrf file..... perhaps decoding is not the way to go.. but how else does a visual learner figure out how to do this? 12:23:14 <drac_boy> V453000 when you downloaded it and wanted to figure out snips of it 12:23:16 <planetmaker> V453000: in order to understand what they do / modify / get the "source" of those newgrf which you don't have it from 12:23:19 <NGC3982> I don't understand. A decoded GRF is not even relevant if you can obtain the *correct* source? 12:23:24 <V453000> mhm :) 12:24:06 <drac_boy> V453000 mind you thats how I figured out how the whole vehicle id thing worked (including refit affecting it) among a few other things before 12:24:41 <planetmaker> Anyway Timberdragon: don't mind the fuss. Look at how base set or NewGRFs work in NML. Get the source code of NewGRFs to learn 12:24:43 <V453000> idk the tt-wiki is pretty well written for figuring out things :) 12:24:56 <planetmaker> There are a bunch of people who're happy to work with open source 12:25:19 <planetmaker> so that all people can profit from their knowledge and thought. So that people like you have an easier start 12:25:24 <drac_boy> V453000 :) 12:25:46 <drac_boy> V453000 only thing with the wiki yet is lack of more full examples. but thats probably more of a personal thing 12:26:01 <V453000> I annoy people and ask in that case :p 12:26:03 <NGC3982> V453000: The wiki is neat, but some things really need a look-over. 12:26:10 <drac_boy> V453000 heh 12:26:23 <NGC3982> Like it in so many places refers to "Palnetmaker", for instance. 12:26:42 <V453000> what is bad about that 12:26:58 <NGC3982> Simple spelling errors? 12:27:08 <V453000> oh that you mean 12:27:14 <planetmaker> lol 12:27:18 <Timberdragon> from a noob stand point the wiki's are all over the place and its difficult to figure out what is useful and what is outdated info 12:27:36 <NGC3982> "Pal-netmaker" should be a dating site for bromances, by the way. 12:27:37 <NGC3982> :D 12:27:45 <V453000> idk, in the functions and code-things there arent errors, or at least didnt notice any ... and if there is a typo in the description ... :d so wat 12:27:52 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.89.244] has joined #openttd 12:28:04 <NGC3982> Timberdragon: Im with you there. 12:28:41 <Timberdragon> ok so where can i find zbase source to study how he is doing it? 12:29:01 <V453000> [13:07] <@planetmaker> Which basically is what zbase, too: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbuild http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/zbuild/push/LATEST/ 12:29:11 <Timberdragon> lol oh yeah 12:29:16 <Timberdragon> its open and all X) 12:29:37 <NGC3982> I bet PM owns a DeLorean 12:29:41 <planetmaker> There's two wikis relevant: tt-wiki.net with tutorials. and newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net with the language descriptions 12:30:40 <planetmaker> the latter only contains the read-built base set, I think. But the first is the project page 12:31:57 <V453000> I really like how newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net is updated often ... all the new changes in NML are there usually 12:32:28 <V453000> true that if you see it once in a few months it might be a bit confusing as stuff is different from last time but ... :) 12:35:19 <planetmaker> V453000: that wiki is the authorative manual. What's not there, that you should not rely on to continue working ;-) 12:35:40 <planetmaker> same as with the newgrf specs wiki. What is not specified is not guaranteed to work ;-) 12:36:06 <V453000> yes :) but when things I had in the newgrf some time ago and was "right" before and now it disappears :D surprise 12:36:33 <planetmaker> err what? 12:36:41 <V453000> like the length 12:36:54 <V453000> or "return" in switches 12:36:55 <planetmaker> that's described in the changes between 0.2 and 0.3 12:37:15 <V453000> haha punished for not reading changelog 12:37:39 <planetmaker> the return might not. Not sure 12:37:50 <planetmaker> but length is :-) 12:38:13 <V453000> well all is good and happy in the end :) it works and I think I am done with coding any new features so it is just eventual copypaste now :) 12:38:23 <planetmaker> :-) good 12:38:33 <planetmaker> until the next new openttd feature :-P 12:38:43 <V453000> just reached 20k lines of code and 20k sprites yesterday ._. 12:38:50 <planetmaker> hehe 12:38:54 <drac_boy> heh 12:39:08 <V453000> the counts are funny though 12:39:28 <V453000> 9 trains from the set have 11000 sprites as they recolour in 17 different colours in cargo subtypes 12:39:49 <V453000> so effectively it is 11k/17 :) just cloned and recoloured 12:40:04 <V453000> funny when in compare to that another 9 trains without such feature have ... 72 sprites 12:44:16 <Timberdragon> decoding .grf files from the zbase project is not the same as decoding newgrf's is that right? 12:48:34 <planetmaker> Timberdragon: it works the same way. But ... I don't see what information you like to retrieve 12:49:00 <planetmaker> but meh, suit yourself 12:49:24 <Timberdragon> i just want to look at the sprites and the folder structures to see how it's all set out 12:49:55 <Timberdragon> i can reproduce much faster then i can learn from reading 12:50:15 <Timberdragon> basicly im a dumb ass ;) 12:50:37 <drac_boy> heh :) 12:50:52 <planetmaker> Timberdragon: a de-coded grf won't tell you anything about "folder structure". Nor about how it was written 12:51:12 <planetmaker> It will give you all sprites in one big file. Sequentially. Not in the form the artist drew them 12:51:28 <planetmaker> thus you'll learn basically not much. Especially not about how the grf was made 12:51:39 <V453000> oh it even gives separate sprites? :d that could be a huge mess 12:51:57 <planetmaker> V453000: it gives you one file with all sprites next to each other separated by some white space 12:52:14 <planetmaker> with 800px width or so by default. However many fit in one row 12:52:20 <V453000> ahh 12:52:29 <planetmaker> thus: quite ugly 12:52:32 <V453000> interesting 12:52:32 <Timberdragon> ok so i need to see something before its encoded, is that possible? 12:52:48 <V453000> look at the source I think :) 12:53:18 <planetmaker> like this: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/entry/sprites/png/gui/gui04.png 12:53:30 <planetmaker> that's a de-coded spriteset 12:53:31 <drac_boy> isn't one file seperated by white pretty much the way to draw anyway? even the raw sprites on forum are laid out the same way 12:53:42 <planetmaker> drac_boy: that's pretty much not the way I draw 12:53:51 <planetmaker> and pretty much not the way most people draw tbh 12:54:05 <planetmaker> they make one file maybe per vehicle, separated those 8 sprites. But in a nice patter 12:54:17 <planetmaker> the decoded stuff has all of that meta-info thrown away 12:55:06 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:55:22 <FLHerne> planetmaker: That reminds me for some reason: the offset for one of the hair types in OGFX seems to be a pixel or two off... 12:55:24 <planetmaker> heck, people even draw the stuff in proper graphics programmes which support layers. And then export the layers, combining different layers to different sprites 12:55:32 <planetmaker> that even works in a scripted fashion 12:55:35 <Timberdragon> i decoded 32bit trains 2 nights ago and noticed the nfo was useles so i trashed the extracted folder 12:56:14 <planetmaker> imho similar reasoning applies to the spritesets from a de-coded grf 12:56:33 <planetmaker> both are not useless. But are the last thing I want to deal with 12:56:53 <Timberdragon> yes i understand 12:57:01 <planetmaker> as convenient like sanding paper used as toilet paper 12:57:07 <Timberdragon> :) 12:57:45 <drac_boy> hmm I took a quick look at forum and I can't find any seperated raw sprites except for the occassional single-vehicle grfs :/ 12:58:01 <Timberdragon> ok, im trying to find the before hand source for zbase but i can only find the zbase.r104.zip file which only has the grf files in them... in the past i use SVN to access project source files.. is there something similar here? 12:58:10 <FLHerne> planetmaker: European female hair 1 seems to be 1 pixel too far right? 12:58:19 <planetmaker> Timberdragon: look at the first link I gave... there's a repo link 12:59:14 <planetmaker> FLHerne: dunno by heart. Maybe :-) Can you make a note in the bug tracker or related forum thread please? Or I'll forget 12:59:24 <drac_boy> heh 13:00:18 <planetmaker> ah, Timberdragon, maybe the link was not that good which I gave... it uses sub repositories 13:00:40 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository has the 32bpp sprites 13:01:01 <planetmaker> dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository the 8bpp sprites 13:01:08 <Timberdragon> Thats cool, it just means im not going insane after all X) 13:01:23 <planetmaker> dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbasebuild/repository the code for the 8bbp+32bpp combined 13:01:39 <planetmaker> all that is solved, if you simply checkout that project via mercurial ;-) 13:02:27 <Timberdragon> haha, now we are talking 13:03:08 * drac_boy only has ftp and svn but wouldn't comment :p 13:03:55 <Timberdragon> i already have tortoiseSVN, can i just use that? 13:04:05 <planetmaker> you need tortoiseHG 13:04:25 <planetmaker> it's not using svn but mercurial 13:04:32 <planetmaker> (mercurial = hg) 13:05:25 <Timberdragon> i see 13:06:31 <planetmaker> thanks for the reply in the forums FLHerne ;-) I restrained myself to answer. Would have been like "please read again" :-P 13:06:44 <planetmaker> which would not have been very friendly ;-) 13:06:49 <drac_boy> heh 13:07:36 <Timberdragon> restarting, brb 13:07:40 *** Timberdragon [Timberdrag@CPE-58-173-177-11.wucz1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 13:08:40 <FLHerne> Sorry, it's Hair 2 actually :P 13:09:31 <drac_boy> just wondering FLHerne how're the tiles going? 13:10:41 <FLHerne> I have a fair number of angles done for the asphalt :-) . I'm not exactly working full-out on it though, just doing odd ones when I get bored :P 13:12:42 <drac_boy> heh...ok :p 13:13:07 * drac_boy is thinking about getting back to my one large grf project when I've finished this model layout yet anyhow 13:13:13 *** Timberdragon [Timberdrag@CPE-58-173-177-11.wucz1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:15:54 *** Timberdragon [Timberdrag@CPE-58-173-177-11.wucz1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:22 *** Timberdragon [Timberdrag@CPE-58-173-177-11.wucz1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:19:10 <planetmaker> what kind of grf you're working for, FLHerne? 13:19:40 <Timberdragon> :S Is there a channel log somewhere? 13:20:03 <planetmaker> you didn't miss anything really 13:20:04 <planetmaker> @logs 13:20:05 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 13:20:42 <Timberdragon> i didnt save the last few address's 13:25:55 <Timberdragon> SUCCESS!!! well, in 3 days after its finished downloading X) 13:36:04 <__ln__> http://i.imgur.com/0Jcq7.jpg 13:37:49 <V453000> :> 13:38:18 <FLHerne> planetmaker: CHIPS-style newobjects. I'm trying to redraw the groundtiles for all the slope angles :P 13:38:39 <planetmaker> oh :-) Sounds tasty 13:40:45 <FLHerne> More tedious :-( 13:40:54 <Timberdragon> hmm i keep getting dc'd while downloading, does "command returned code 255" mean anything? 13:40:57 <FLHerne> Fills in time gaps though LP 13:41:04 <FLHerne> s/L/:/ 13:42:02 <planetmaker> Timberdragon: downloading what? 13:42:25 <Timberdragon> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/zbase 13:42:43 <planetmaker> hm, ho. There's an issue with the http checkout... things are too large... 13:42:53 <planetmaker> forgot about that 13:43:17 <Timberdragon> transaction aborted... manually this time at least X) 13:44:00 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC676BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:15 <planetmaker> hmpf... the only way which currently works... is via ssh 13:44:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC676BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:44:25 <Timberdragon> ok 13:44:41 <planetmaker> which... requires you to give me the public key of yours 13:47:00 <Timberdragon> ok, where do i find it? 13:48:55 <planetmaker> you probably need to create it... 14:01:23 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176113041.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 14:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i think when adjusting the purchase list width, we must switch from centering to left aligning the sprites 14:04:15 <Ammler> just to note, we have a new test http hg server running: https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/ 14:04:32 <Ammler> this one should allow clone/pull and push without limit 14:05:10 <Ammler> I need to get celery and rabbitmq running and then we will provide hg.o.o with that 14:05:39 <planetmaker> thus try to clone https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/zbase Timberdragon 14:05:46 <planetmaker> same thing, different interface ;-) 14:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause> STR_TINY_BLACK_COMA <-- is that a typo? 14:06:44 <Timberdragon> thank god for that, i was upto Puttygen for key and was about to grab a gun to put myself out of misery X) 14:07:57 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: it is code for being drunk out of your mind 14:44:09 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6564.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:14:10 *** nicfer [~Administr@190.50.13.162] has joined #openttd 15:18:07 <nicfer> jello 15:19:12 <nicfer> how do I checkout a specific revision with svn? 15:19:40 <planetmaker> svn up -rXXX 15:20:24 <planetmaker> and svn help co is your friend 15:20:33 <nicfer> I just did that 15:20:59 <planetmaker> and? 15:21:52 <nicfer> I did svn -h and didn't saw I could do svn help co 15:22:47 <FLHerne> Downloading a zBase build from bundles.openttdcoop.org fails :-( 15:23:04 <planetmaker> FLHerne: what's the error? 15:24:47 <FLHerne> After a few seconds, the download stalls. Pausing and restarting seems to work, but then it stalls again...and so on 15:25:10 <nicfer> at which directory shall I apply a patch? 15:25:15 <FLHerne> It's finally downloaded :-) 15:25:16 <TrueBrain> do you have that more often FLHerne, with other sites? :) 15:25:33 <nicfer> at /trunk or /trunk/src? 15:25:39 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Never :P 15:26:03 <planetmaker> does it, by chance, stop at 23MB, FLHerne? 15:26:18 <planetmaker> Ammler: any idea? ^ 15:26:21 <TrueBrain> I remember the day I had a damaged cat-5 cable, where the 4th wire was damaged ... transmissions went fine till a certain kb/s, then it just ... stopped .... took for ever to trace and fix :P :D 15:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> <nicfer> I did svn -h and didn't saw I could do svn help co <- it says that in like the 3rd line 15:27:44 <FLHerne> I didn't check, will try again 15:27:57 <planetmaker> nicfer: that depends on the patch. And whether svn can deal with the patch at all 15:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> 1st line: usage, 2nd line: version, 3rd line: use "svn help <command>" 15:28:31 <planetmaker> (or rather your patch programme. It's not svn itself which does the patching) 15:28:55 <Ammler> planetmaker: no clue 15:29:11 <FLHerne> planetmaker: No, it doesn't. Just tried twice, 4.4MB and then 7.4 15:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> nicfer: most patches are made to be applied at trunk/ 15:29:29 <FLHerne> Had to pause and restart about 15 times when downloading...seems to md5sum ok though :-) 15:29:47 * planetmaker tries again... 15:30:00 <planetmaker> you mean, like the 15th time it downloaded all 150MB? 15:30:20 <Ammler> apache crap 15:31:03 <FLHerne> No, I just paused the download when it stalled and then had it resume from where it stopped :P 15:31:25 <planetmaker> lol lol. I get like 74 bytes/s :-P 15:31:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: when i tried to check out FISH recently, hg clone didn't work, but hg clone --pull did work 15:32:42 <planetmaker> now, that's *really* annoying, FLHerne. Thanks for the notification 15:33:15 <TrueBrain> QoS going haywire? :) 15:33:25 <planetmaker> seems like :'-( 15:33:35 <TrueBrain> some mirrors do that to an extreme. .. you start your download at 100 mbit/s, you go: WOW! 15:33:39 <planetmaker> and it's not my local pipe here... 15:33:42 <TrueBrain> then after 10 seconds, it cuts down to 10 KiB/s 15:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: bad rate limiting software that takes too long to kick in? 15:34:27 <TrueBrain> in fact, many (free) mirrors still do that 15:35:08 <FLHerne> Here, it literally drops to 0bits/s and stays there :P 15:35:37 <TrueBrain> talking about mirrors, I am trying to piece together mirror v2 for OpenTTD, but sjees, it is hard :( 15:36:07 <TrueBrain> those 100+ MiB GRFs are a real pain :P 15:36:54 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: and... it's only the beginning ;-) 15:37:17 <planetmaker> zbase currently is at 150MB. And it's like 40...50% done 15:37:18 <TrueBrain> I am trying to piece together a solution, where when a mirror hasn't received a file yet, other can already serve a file if they did 15:37:29 <TrueBrain> but how do you know? How do you store it? 15:37:56 <TrueBrain> does the balancer (which redirects you to a mirror) sends HEAD to each file to see if the mirror already has it? 15:38:05 <FLHerne> Give OTTD a BitTorrent client? :P 15:38:14 <TrueBrain> do you make a DB table to keep track of this kind of information? (terribly slow to query a DB every time) 15:38:23 <TrueBrain> and I can't find any software that does anything remotely like this 15:38:36 <planetmaker> hm 15:38:41 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: played Diablo 3 or World of Warcraft? 15:38:46 <TrueBrain> 2 good examples why you should never do that :P 15:38:55 <planetmaker> FLHerne: your start-stop "solution" works... but... meh 15:38:58 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Nope. What breaks? 15:39:11 <TrueBrain> they allow you to download the client by torrent or http 15:39:15 <TrueBrain> http via the launcher is rate limited 15:39:31 <TrueBrain> when I had a 100 mbit/s pipe, torrent took 20+ hours, http via launcher 10+ hours, http via browser 1 hour 15:39:48 <planetmaker> uh? 15:39:56 <TrueBrain> and those 2 games are not small (in people downloading etc) 15:39:58 <planetmaker> sounds like torrent is limited. Not http 15:40:19 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: its not; just too many people download from those very small upstreams of people .... 15:40:31 <planetmaker> :-) 15:40:32 <TrueBrain> most connections are 10:1 (downstream:upstream) 15:41:12 <planetmaker> yes, round about 15:41:14 <TrueBrain> its always a nice example for me that those solutiosn work well for many low-quality connections ... but suck if you have a decent connection :P 15:41:16 * FLHerne just had to killall OTTD :-( 15:41:28 <planetmaker> ui? 15:41:32 <FLHerne> 32bpp doesn't seem to like my computer, or vice versa :P 15:41:45 <TrueBrain> you are doing it wrong :D 15:41:57 <planetmaker> surely 32bpp doesn't like your computer. Not vice versa :-P 15:42:03 <FLHerne> Perhaps I should find a stable/trunk build and try that :P 15:42:09 <TrueBrain> anyway, if anyone knows a good mirroring solution, either in software or idea, please, do let me know; kinda running thin in solutions here :D 15:42:12 <planetmaker> you need to paint your box first with some colours. Then they'll feel more at home 15:42:40 <TrueBrain> hmm, I might as well post on the forums, might be easier 15:43:14 * planetmaker goes do some needed shopping before continuing the stupidity path with comments here ;-) 15:43:49 <planetmaker> (I only mean mine) 15:46:33 <FLHerne> Mmm. If I set blitter to 32bpp-anim, start 1.2.1, select zBase as baseset and start a new game, should I be seeing 32bpp graphics? :P 15:47:50 <FLHerne> Oops, my fault :-( 15:48:13 <FLHerne> I should probably remove OGFX+ Landscape first :P 15:50:36 <Ammler> I can't download zbase either 15:52:56 <frosch123> FLHerne: you do not even have to set the blitter 15:53:06 <frosch123> unless you force a 8bpp blitter, it will select a 32bpp one itself 15:53:19 <TrueBrain> btw, Ammler, I guess this is one for you: the last 2 days I am receiving timeouts, refused connectiosn and DNS errors when accesing hg.openttdcoop.org (CompileFarm reports them) 15:53:32 <FLHerne> Does that override old .cfgs, though? :P 15:55:11 <Ammler> I want back my old server, where I didn't need to care about readiness :-( 15:58:14 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd 15:59:34 <Sacro> \o/ 16:02:22 <TrueBrain> there, posted about my issue :P 16:02:38 <TrueBrain> all (wanna-be) sysops: read and reply! :P 16:03:55 <Sacro> TrueBrain: I am a sysop 16:03:59 <Sacro> what can I read? 16:04:03 <TrueBrain> tt-forums 16:04:05 <TrueBrain> my last post 16:04:08 <TrueBrain> can't miss it, I hope :P 16:04:36 <Ammler> download around 8mb, then stop :-( 16:06:44 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:09:30 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 16:18:30 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08e08c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:22:36 <Ammler> TrueBrain: this would not have happen, if you wouldn't have such a stupid TOS :-P 16:24:32 <Ammler> and instead to make it more common, you made it more silly with the checkbox 16:27:07 *** perk111 [~perk11@46.242.10.99] has joined #openttd 16:28:56 <Ammler> a guy, which took the effort to reclaim newships as his grf will also just click that box 16:29:32 <Rubidium> but they can't say they 'forgot' that fact 16:29:38 <Rubidium> they agreed to it twice 16:30:58 <TrueBrain> Ammler: I don't see how it is relevant. This is an issue how to selectively push stuff to a mirror, because the mirrors want that 16:31:41 <Ammler> TrueBrain: maybe I saw the wrong thread from you then :-) 16:32:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: that post is months old.. 16:32:46 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:33:12 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: still on top 16:33:12 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: "We talk about 45k files here." <-- maybe make the decision per-directory, and not per-file? 16:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: that's because it's an announcement 16:33:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: announcements, stickies, normal topics... 16:37:02 <TrueBrain> Ammler: I said: my last post 16:37:05 <TrueBrain> which is not "top post" 16:37:07 <TrueBrain> which is silly 16:37:13 <TrueBrain> :P 16:37:31 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: given there are roughly 50 files in 1 dir, that still leaves a huge list :P 16:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: and i think you forgot a point, there are 3 cases, the file is not there, the file is there, and an old version of the file is there 16:40:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and that no incomplete files are there must be made sure during the rsync 16:42:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:47:34 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: is clone with --pull like pulling every changeset individually? 16:48:06 <Ammler> which url did you use to clone? 16:48:38 <Eddi|zuHause> my exact command line was "hg clone --pull http://hg.openttdcoop.org/fish fish" 16:49:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't know how pull exactly works. i just found this entry in the help and though i should try it. " --pull Nutzt das 'Pull'-Protokoll um Metadaten zu kopieren" 16:50:01 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: what about splitting the removal and addition of files for mirroring. Then first add the files, then update the cache (maybe once every so many minutes/seconds) and after that run/trigger the removal 16:51:23 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:44 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:53:53 <Rubidium> maybe have two classes of 'mirrors': full and partial, where partial is just a small subset. Upon query find the closest mirror. If it's full, return that, if it's not figure out whether the file will be on the mirror (can't be that expensive I'd guess if you store paths; then it's just a hash lookup: O(1)). If it is on the subset mirror, return, otherwise get the nearest mirror in the full mirror list 16:55:15 <Rubidium> with store paths is: have a list with the paths that are pushed to the 'small' mirrors (that's maybe 50 entries?) 16:55:55 <Ammler> or use something like mirrorbrain 16:58:32 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: please post that to the thread, so I can read it later when I am not cooking dinner etc ;) 17:00:17 <TrueBrain> (you say it is not expensive, but I think you forget how that hash gets filled/stored/saved/loaded .. it is not as trivial as you want it to appear here ;)) 17:00:55 <Rubidium> write the list to a file, inotify 17:01:15 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.89.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:02:02 <Rubidium> http://pyinotify.sourceforge.net/ (IN_CLOSE_WRITE) 17:02:26 <Eddi|zuHause> that should have been pynotify :) 17:02:46 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no, pienotify 17:03:08 <Eddi|zuHause> pyinotify does sound like stuttering 17:03:32 <Rubidium> IN_OVEN_OFF ;) 17:04:54 <Rubidium> filling the file with data, that's the trickier part. However, that's the thing that determines whether something is going to be mirrored or not 17:05:25 <Rubidium> and thus it could be some filter over find $binaries 17:06:10 <Eddi|zuHause> if we fix it on a 2-class system, i'd probably make a positive-list of what files (or directories) are in the "small" mirrors. 17:07:37 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:07:39 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:07:47 <Rubidium> and with rsync I'd expect the file cache to be hot-ish. time find $binaries | grep log | wc takes a whopping 0.118 seconds 17:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause> so upon incoming request, you hash the directory, ask the file whether the hash is in there, and if yes, return a "small" mirror, if no, return a "large" mirror. 17:13:09 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.89.244] has joined #openttd 17:22:16 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ade3:8c94:d691:67a1] has joined #openttd 17:22:19 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:27:18 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: so you mean make files like: .mirror.nl, to indicate the NL mirror has that directory? 17:27:24 <TrueBrain> (and dn't sync that file, ofc) 17:28:16 <Rubidium> no, just make a file with all the files a particular mirror has 17:28:52 <TrueBrain> hmm I wonder if rsync can tell you that 17:29:09 <Rubidium> you tell which files rsync should sync, don't you? 17:29:39 <TrueBrain> hmm, I guess that is another approach 17:29:47 <TrueBrain> I was thinking about simply running rsync over all dirs you want to rsync 17:29:52 <TrueBrain> but I guess you can also suplpy it with a list he should 17:30:08 <TrueBrain> I wonder if that can be done per directory 17:30:49 <TrueBrain> (also, the idea is that per mirror can be selected which files are there, but that would be allowed in this approach I guess) 17:31:03 <TrueBrain> some mirrors explicitly only want the latest stable (non-nightly) 17:31:13 <frosch123> syncing a list of files? 17:31:18 <frosch123> might be tricky for removing files 17:31:30 <TrueBrain> it should remove any file not on the list anymore 17:31:33 <TrueBrain> rsync has an option for that 17:31:58 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: aren't those mirrors that only want latest stable more or less useless; bananas consumes much more I think 17:31:59 <frosch123> oh, i expected it would only remove files on the list which are not at the source location 17:32:09 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: during releases they are not useless 17:32:20 <TrueBrain> (the first few days, basically) 17:32:35 <frosch123> Rubidium: wouldn't those mirrors also want the basesets? 17:33:13 <Rubidium> frosch123: but that's only for first use, after that you update via bananas 17:33:31 <Ammler> rsync has built in .rsync-filter file support 17:33:47 <frosch123> well, but if it handles zbase that would also be some 17:34:06 <TrueBrain> how still will grow exactly, time will tell .. I just want the ability to change 17:34:09 <TrueBrain> now it is either all or none 17:34:13 <TrueBrain> which are too much of an extreme ;) 17:34:20 <frosch123> alternatively we could modify ottd to only download files when they are going to be used :p 17:34:29 <TrueBrain> Ammler: you said exactly nothing; can you give a bit more context to your comment? 17:34:55 <TrueBrain> cool, --files-from accepts directories just fine, that is nice 17:35:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: as far as I understand, with --files-from rsync sents that list to the mirror, it compares it with its local list, and removes any file not on it (when you say it should delete, that is) 17:35:34 <TrueBrain> then syncs any file not matchines the checksum 17:35:41 <TrueBrain> (which is mtime I believe?) 17:37:46 <Ammler> TrueBrain: well, mirrors can configure filter on directory level themself (or you edit those), point is, rsync supports that natively (option -F, iirc) 17:38:05 <TrueBrain> -F is write-batch 17:38:42 <TrueBrain> please dont 'iirc', but please give concrete useful information .. tnx :) 17:38:44 <Ammler> -F same as --filter='dir-merge /.rsync-filter' 17:38:52 <Rubidium> frosch123: but aren't all files used during scanning? 17:38:58 <Ammler> maybe depends on version 17:39:06 <TrueBrain> you still haven't really told me wtf it does 17:39:14 <TrueBrain> absolutely unclear to me, sorry :) 17:39:19 <TrueBrain> (I might be slow, I dunno) 17:40:04 <Ammler> just how to provide/manage mirror dependend syncing 17:40:14 <TrueBrain> that is the subject, yes :) 17:42:25 <TrueBrain> still no clue what you try to point out .. 17:42:59 <frosch123> TrueBrain: --delete-excluded seems to be the option 17:43:04 <Ammler> imo easiest way to allow mirrors to configure, which files they want on their disk 17:43:15 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yup :) 17:43:38 <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is a USE WITH CARE flag 17:43:49 <TrueBrain> Ammler: and how would we do such thing? 17:44:02 <Ammler> but no clue, how that is done with rsync < 3 17:44:07 <frosch123> Rubidium: we could also just download the 8bpp normal zoom part 17:44:08 <TrueBrain> ... 17:44:22 <Ammler> maybe it has --filter 17:44:24 <frosch123> and update the rest only via password or so :p 17:45:01 <frosch123> TrueBrain: rsync can also read the filelist from the destination 17:45:12 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I expected as much; that is great :) 17:45:22 <TrueBrain> happen to know how? 17:45:38 <frosch123> though i don't know how the balacner would get that info 17:45:54 <TrueBrain> file-cache 17:46:00 <TrueBrain> rsync script starts 17:46:03 <TrueBrain> when finishes, it runs that 17:46:13 <TrueBrain> balancer detects file is changed 17:46:15 <TrueBrain> reloads 17:46:35 <Ammler> replace balancer with mirrorbrain 17:46:38 <TrueBrain> would mean not having to care about rsync giving errors 17:47:13 <frosch123> TrueBrain: you mean --files-from=:/foo/bar with ":" in front of the path? 17:47:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I have no clue? 17:47:30 <TrueBrain> what would it do? 17:47:31 <frosch123> i just read the man page 17:48:19 <frosch123> you set a path for a file on the remote machine, which can then contain stuff like "releases/" or "/releases/LATEST" or "bananas" 17:48:19 <TrueBrain> ah, remote host location 17:48:22 <TrueBrain> no, I don't see how that is useful 17:48:33 <TrueBrain> the mirror hosters won't want to maintain such files 17:48:40 <TrueBrain> we can just do that for them, that is perfectly fine 17:48:54 <frosch123> it would not be a list of files, but a list of top-level dirs 17:49:01 <frosch123> but again, the balancer would know about that 17:49:07 <TrueBrain> like: */releases/* ;) 17:49:14 <TrueBrain> how I think it would work, if I get this all right 17:49:20 <TrueBrain> we have a file, say, .mirror.nl 17:49:24 <TrueBrain> it contains stuff like */releases/* 17:49:27 <TrueBrain> */bananas/* 17:49:28 <TrueBrain> I dunno 17:49:29 <frosch123> yeah, so not on remote 17:49:32 <TrueBrain> gives directories we want 17:49:38 <TrueBrain> we run rsync --file-from.mirror.nl 17:49:41 <TrueBrain> it syncs it etc 17:49:51 <TrueBrain> then we run a command (??), which tells us which files are now on the mirror 17:49:53 <TrueBrain> store that in .cache.nl 17:50:02 <frosch123> you can also run that file through some preprocessor and replace $LATEST with 1.2.0 :p 17:50:02 <TrueBrain> the balancer reads that file, and per file now knows who has it 17:50:16 <TrueBrain> yup, would work indeed 17:50:27 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: so the balancer picks a mirror, looks up whether it has that file, then picks next mirror? 17:50:33 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: no 17:50:48 <TrueBrain> I wouldn't know why he would do that ... 17:50:54 <TrueBrain> "and per file now knows who has it" 17:50:59 <TrueBrain> it knows, PER FILE, who has it 17:51:11 <TrueBrain> so .... when you ask a file at the balancer, he KNOWS who has it 17:51:15 <TrueBrain> so it picks a mirror from that pool 17:51:37 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, so cache has a mapping from filename:mirror-list 17:51:45 <Eddi|zuHause> for each file 17:52:00 <TrueBrain> let me try this again :) 17:52:05 <TrueBrain> .cache.nl has a filelist, wha tis on the NL mirror 17:52:15 <TrueBrain> the balancer reads this file in an array files[file] = [ "nl", "de", ] 17:52:27 <TrueBrain> more clear? 17:52:32 <frosch123> can ottd handle downloading stuff from different mirrors? i.e. does it notice which mirror server it, or does that not matter at all? 17:52:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 17:52:55 <frosch123> (i mean a scenario where the user selects two files via ingame gui, which are on different mirrors only) 17:52:58 <TrueBrain> frosch123: don't know if I understand your question completely, but you do bring up a good question .. 17:53:04 <TrueBrain> I cannot remember how we told the client about a mirror 17:53:10 <TrueBrain> if we did it once in a package, or for every entry 17:53:21 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: do you remember? 17:53:21 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: can't use dns-based balancing in that case, only redirects 17:53:25 <frosch123> it was some standard http stuff iirc :p 17:53:30 <frosch123> though i have no idea about http 17:53:33 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: we don't use dns based balancing 17:53:35 <frosch123> it just sounded standard :p 17:53:49 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: then i don't see why it would not work 17:54:17 <Eddi|zuHause> assuming the game does not do any magic to combine requests 17:54:25 <TrueBrain> ottd_content can reply in 2 ways: either a http, or an internal entry 17:54:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and starts separate requests for each file 17:54:28 <TrueBrain> the client then downloads it 17:54:34 <TrueBrain> but what I don't remember, is if it caches the redirect 17:55:15 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i think that would be bad architecture. the game would contain logic about the structure of mirrors, which it really shouldn't 17:55:31 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: with full mirrors, that is no problem at all 17:55:36 <TrueBrain> and has nothing to do with bad architecture 17:55:38 <TrueBrain> but with optimization 17:55:47 <TrueBrain> but I think we didn't do it 17:55:50 <TrueBrain> for statistics reasons 17:56:02 <TrueBrain> my memory is so terrible at times :( 17:56:36 <TrueBrain> url = mirrors[m]['url'] + url 17:56:39 <TrueBrain> well, that answers that question 17:56:46 <TrueBrain> so clients get the mirror URL 17:56:52 <TrueBrain> so that would be no issue at all 17:57:22 <Rubidium> that's about what I wanted to say 17:57:36 <TrueBrain> so yeah, then this approach should work 17:57:42 <TrueBrain> only remaining question: how do you get a remote file list? :D 17:58:37 <Rubidium> ugh... already people are mentioning Sintnicolaas :( 17:59:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean after rsync runs, get the filelist to doublecheck? 17:59:16 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: please do read what I wrote :P 17:59:20 <TrueBrain> nothing 'double check' 17:59:20 * Rubidium should eat something 17:59:25 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: enjoy :) 17:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i phrased that badly 17:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i meant: "do not trust that rsync ran correctly, read the actual result" 17:59:51 <TrueBrain> yes 17:59:52 <TrueBrain> it is needed 17:59:59 <TrueBrain> we "often" have mirrors that run out of diskspace 18:00:03 <TrueBrain> how ever annoying, but it happens 18:00:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and rsync itself cannot handle that? 18:00:26 <TrueBrain> it might 18:00:29 <TrueBrain> but that is a lot of work tbh 18:00:37 <TrueBrain> rsync is not really .... userfriendly in its return values 18:00:45 <TrueBrain> what is easier than: rsync && rsync-list ;) 18:00:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so you ssh into it, run ls, and read the output? 18:00:54 <TrueBrain> maybe even rsync; rsync-list 18:00:56 <TrueBrain> ;) 18:00:59 <TrueBrain> we often cannot ssh 18:01:01 <TrueBrain> only rsync-ssh 18:01:07 <TrueBrain> (key-restriction-based-access) 18:01:38 <Ammler> also that would not allow to provide a file as soon as it is uploaded 18:02:05 *** nicfer [~Administr@190.50.13.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:25 <TrueBrain> as soon as rsync finishes, yes 18:02:40 <TrueBrain> which has a hidden benefit: a nightly has to be completely uploaded before a mirror starts serving it 18:02:57 <TrueBrain> might avoid a few cases of: why isn't there XXX, but YYY is there already! 18:03:02 <TrueBrain> its a small benefit :P 18:04:31 <TrueBrain> list-only ofc would be sufficient to list remote 18:04:40 <TrueBrain> as you can just put the remote server as 'source' 18:04:41 <TrueBrain> lolz 18:04:49 <TrueBrain> I was searching for a too complex solution :D 18:05:01 <TrueBrain> btw, Ammler, MirrorBrain has a few 404 pages on their homepage, which is annoying :P 18:05:11 <TrueBrain> and we have a very special balancer 18:05:16 <frosch123> something like running rsync a second time with --dry-run --itemize-changes might give a list of files which failed to transfer 18:05:17 <TrueBrain> as it can also spew out ottd:// urls ;) 18:05:33 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 18:05:33 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that might also be nice, yes 18:05:43 <TrueBrain> good idea tbh 18:05:49 <TrueBrain> as I can trigger emails on that 18:06:30 <TrueBrain> frosch123: wait, no .. what if the filesystem changed in that time? 18:06:34 <TrueBrain> a new upload for example? 18:06:35 <Ammler> TrueBrain: I don't know mirrorbrain, I just know SUSE or KDE uses it 18:06:44 <TrueBrain> another reason btw for you Eddi|zuHause, to list the files remotely ;) 18:06:51 <TrueBrain> the local system can ben changed already :D 18:07:01 <frosch123> TrueBrain: well, that means that you cannot use that mirror for that file 18:07:03 <frosch123> which is correct 18:07:12 <TrueBrain> frosch123: but I cannot trigger emails on it :P 18:07:12 <frosch123> you just need to reconsider your email 18:07:17 <TrueBrain> ;) 18:07:21 <Ammler> there is one url for every suse package, no need to search for mirrors like you do with other distros 18:07:21 <frosch123> except you add some threshold 18:07:22 <TrueBrain> so I am better off listing the remote files, not? 18:07:26 <TrueBrain> as then I am sure I have the right list :) 18:07:27 <frosch123> if it fails on 10 files or more 18:07:59 <frosch123> just listing the files does not tell you whether they are complete, does it? 18:08:15 <frosch123> rsync --dry-run would list you the files which need transfering resp. need no transfering 18:08:23 <TrueBrain> frosch123: rsync promises that 18:08:31 <TrueBrain> if a transfer fails, it removes the file 18:08:47 <TrueBrain> I will have to test what it does if a file already existed, but .. that we can test :) 18:08:59 <TrueBrain> problem about your --dry-run approach, is that it would be a negative list 18:09:03 <TrueBrain> which are annoying to handle tbh :P 18:09:10 <TrueBrain> as ... I have to list all files on the local system 18:09:13 <TrueBrain> then run --dry-run 18:09:16 <TrueBrain> and remove the files it returns 18:09:39 <TrueBrain> but I do agree, we need to be sure files transfered correctly 18:09:50 <TrueBrain> which brings me to the question: how does rsync detect? 18:09:53 <TrueBrain> mtime, md5, ... ? 18:10:12 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it can also list the files which need no transfering 18:10:12 <TrueBrain> Ammler: pretty much like OpenTTD does? :P 18:10:21 <frosch123> TrueBrain: rsync uses checksums 18:10:26 *** NGC3982 [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:28 <frosch123> it can even transfer binary differences 18:10:35 <TrueBrain> that is when it detected a change, yes 18:10:41 <TrueBrain> one does not imply the other 18:10:44 <TrueBrain> or exclude/include even ;) 18:10:47 *** masch_ [~quassel@big.masch.it] has joined #openttd 18:10:55 <TrueBrain> checksums sounds very expensive 18:10:59 <Ammler> TrueBrain: yes, but that it does because ervery mirror has everything, you need something to support selective, don't you? 18:11:01 <TrueBrain> as it would trigger a lot of traffic on the remote 18:11:12 <TrueBrain> Ammler: http://binaries.openttd.org/<url> always works 18:11:14 <TrueBrain> 1 URL 18:11:17 <TrueBrain> which directs you to a valid mirror 18:11:18 *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest2285 18:11:24 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has joined #openttd 18:11:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 18:11:43 <TrueBrain> frosch123: are you sure it uses checksums? 18:12:19 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04D96.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:12:26 <frosch123> TrueBrain: --checksum 18:12:32 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:40 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04D96.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:12:44 <TrueBrain> so normally it does mtime + size 18:12:47 <frosch123> so yeah, it might not de by default 18:12:54 <TrueBrain> you have to explicitely say to do checksums :) 18:12:58 <TrueBrain> k, that is what I would expect 18:13:06 <Ammler> TrueBrain: something like http://binaries.openttd.org/binaries/bananas/newgrf/NUTS_Unrealistic_Train_Set-0.2.7.tar.gz 18:13:06 <TrueBrain> TCP transfers are guarenteed 18:13:09 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 18:13:27 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I will have to test what happens exactly if a transfer gets aborted 18:13:31 <TrueBrain> Ammler: yes 18:13:37 <TrueBrain> minus the binaries I beliee 18:13:39 <TrueBrain> not sure 18:13:40 <TrueBrain> :P 18:13:41 *** masch [~quassel@big.masch.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:13:55 <Ammler> does not matter, both don't :-) 18:13:56 *** NataS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:08 <TrueBrain> hmm, connection is SLOW 18:14:10 <TrueBrain> holy crap 18:14:27 <TrueBrain> @whoami 18:14:27 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: TrueBrain 18:14:34 <TrueBrain> so it is me ... 18:14:50 *** Guest2285 [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:15:03 * andythenorth ponders forums 18:15:03 <TrueBrain> 120ms latency ... 20% packet loss ... 18:15:05 <TrueBrain> lovely 18:15:37 <TrueBrain> Ammler: http://binaries.openttd.org/releases/1.2.1/openttd-1.2.1-windows-win64.exe 18:15:39 <TrueBrain> as example URL 18:15:54 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:55 *** NGC3982 [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has joined #openttd 18:16:19 <Ammler> according to the mirrorbrain docs, that should work 18:16:25 <TrueBrain> okay, with all the ideas here, I think that might work ... 18:16:29 <Ammler> and how suse mirrors are handled 18:16:39 <TrueBrain> Ammler: again, we cannot use that, as we also spit out ottd:// URLs 18:16:52 <TrueBrain> it is just in reply to what you said: Suse does it like that; all I said was: so do we 18:17:03 <TrueBrain> we don't list the mirrors next, no, we just redirect you there 18:17:11 <Ammler> oh, I thought, you need to have all mirrors provide everything 18:17:11 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 18:17:12 <TrueBrain> I hate those redirect pages :P 18:17:34 <TrueBrain> huh? I think you missed like 90% of what we talked about :P 18:17:43 <TrueBrain> the current software needs full mirrors for listing see thread 18:17:46 <frosch123> TrueBrain: --ignore-errors might be needed as well 18:17:49 <TrueBrain> we just spend 30 minutes talking how to resolve that :) 18:17:56 <Ammler> indeed 18:17:58 <TrueBrain> frosch123: can you make a list of all those commands for me and post it? 18:18:07 <TrueBrain> I will forget, and this channel is a bitch to get a backlog on :D 18:18:47 <TrueBrain> tnx already :) 18:18:55 <TrueBrain> Rubidium / Eddi|zuHause: also tnx a lot for the input; this might just work :D 18:19:29 <TrueBrain> Ammler: for BaNaNaS files protected under ToS from public publishing, we reply ottd:// URLs, which only works for the OpenTTD client 18:19:42 <TrueBrain> I don't see how I can add that to MirrorBrain .. and honestly, the balancer is shit easy/small/fast/etc :P 18:19:57 <TrueBrain> Python and its SimpleHTTPServer ... :D:D :) 18:20:19 <Ammler> those files, you don't mirror anyway 18:20:30 <TrueBrain> but the mirror replies to the request for them :) 18:20:38 <TrueBrain> its a special page with special conditions :) 18:20:43 <TrueBrain> s/mirror/balancer/ 18:21:19 <TrueBrain> anyway, I got to go for the evening. Tnx all, happy to finally see some way to resolve this clean and nicely :D 18:21:39 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24461 /trunk/src/lang/ (belarusian.txt luxembourgish.txt portuguese.txt turkish.txt): 18:21:39 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:21:39 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: belarusian - 10 changes by Wowanxm 18:21:39 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 1 changes by Phreeze 18:21:39 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: portuguese - 51 changes by ricardoespsanto 18:21:41 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: turkish - 151 changes by otrkmen 18:22:06 <Ammler> I just hope, you get it fast working, our devzone seems not to be able to handle it 18:31:23 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-36-54.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:34:46 *** confound_ [~hdp@glaive.weftsoar.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:48 *** confound [~hdp@glaive.weftsoar.net] has joined #openttd 18:36:28 *** lugo [GBerten293@oxygen.evosurge.com] has quit [Quit: EvoSurge - Free & Premium IRC Bouncers on Demand - http://evosurge.com/] 18:37:41 <neofutur> still trying to configure my city builder server 18:37:51 <neofutur> where shoudl I put the ewgrf settings like [preset-lcb-temp] ? 18:38:27 <frosch123> into openttd.cfg likely 18:38:30 <neofutur> ( planetmaker and Rubidium thanks for the answers ;) 18:38:32 <frosch123> just append it at the end 18:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> presets are probably fairly useless on a dedicated server 18:38:54 <neofutur> NGC3982: yup trying to setup a city builder server before luukland shutdowns ) 18:39:06 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: good point 18:39:13 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 18:39:19 <Wolf01> evenink 18:39:19 <neofutur> patched client and servers are working, but cities are still needeing nothing 18:39:28 <NGC3982> neofutur: I guess i could host my own? :) 18:39:40 <neofutur> I have them in openttd.cfg but they dont seem to be applied, cities needing nothing 18:40:02 <Eddi|zuHause> neofutur: make sure it uses the right .cfg? 18:40:10 <neofutur> NGC3982: eh for sure if you have a dedicated server 18:40:38 <neofutur> Eddi|zuHause: yes i launch it with -c /usr/local/share/games/openttd/openttd.cfg 18:40:56 <NGC3982> neofutur: ttd.dndr.se:3979 ;) 18:41:35 <Eddi|zuHause> neofutur: what are the citybuilder-related settings, and what does the console think their values are? 18:41:42 *** GBerten2936 [GBerten293@oxygen.evosurge.com] has joined #openttd 18:42:23 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: "--dry-run --itemize-changes --itemize-changes | grep '^.' " that doesn't look right 18:42:23 *** perk111 [~perk11@46.242.10.99] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 18:43:11 <frosch123> if you mean the duplicated option, that is correct 18:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause> may need better documentation then :) 18:44:52 <frosch123> better? 18:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes : 18:45:14 <Eddi|zuHause> :) 18:46:14 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I have only scan read the mirrors thing and I am sick and my head is fuzzy 18:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause> hehe :) 18:46:35 <andythenorth> but sounds like a problem usually solved by CDN (the large file type, not the small file type) 18:46:49 <frosch123> duplicate options are sometimes used as enhancement 18:46:59 <frosch123> -v is verbose, -v -v is very verbose and so on :) 18:48:10 <neofutur> Eddi|zuHause: i added the settings found in the pdf 18:48:13 <neofutur> http://p.gw.gd/index.php/view/928e8fc7 18:48:21 <neofutur> at the end of openttd.cfg 18:48:40 <neofutur> theres no graphical display on the server, how can I use the console from the client ? 18:48:50 <Eddi|zuHause> neofutur: ah, so you need to copy one of the [preset] entries to [newgrf] 18:49:03 <neofutur> ok 18:49:08 <neofutur> i was suspecting something like that 18:49:15 <neofutur> the pdf is not very detailed about this 18:49:49 <neofutur> ok I just put 18:49:50 <neofutur> cbreqfull.grf = 0 250 500 100 2 40 1000 100 5 250 1500 5 9 111 0 5 10 59 2500 2 11 125 0 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 18:50:00 <neofutur> in the [newgrf] section 18:50:15 <frosch123> you can drop the trailing 0 probably 18:50:43 <andythenorth> so we don't pay mirrors, right? 18:50:50 <Eddi|zuHause> well that depends on the grf. there's a difference between "unset" and "zero" 18:50:56 <frosch123> and if you use it like that, you have to make sure that the file is actually in the root "newgrf" dir 18:51:31 <frosch123> andythenorth: we might offer them a cake at the 25k or 30k party 18:51:48 <frosch123> s/cake/piece of cake/ 18:52:54 <Eddi|zuHause> unless the cake is a lie. 18:53:36 <NGC3982> Unless it's also a quantum cake? 18:53:50 <NGC3982> So it can be true and false at the same time 18:53:53 <NGC3982> While not being a cake 18:53:59 <NGC3982> .. 18:54:44 <frosch123> if a cake is too continental, i can also make muffins, they are more archipelagish 18:54:53 <NGC3982> :) 18:55:15 <neofutur> I can help providing mirrors if needed 18:55:27 <neofutur> ( also for a free CDN appengine is great ) 18:55:29 <frosch123> mirroring cakes? 18:56:52 <frosch123> neofutur: have a look at http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=46889 18:57:13 <frosch123> since we currently do not support partial mirrors (see discussion above), the requirements are quite big 18:58:57 <frosch123> TrueBrain: is there a more up-to-date list? e.g. one which mention the proper host of our main server :) 19:01:57 <neofutur> ok the cb setting is there now 19:02:40 <neofutur> and the client is required to download a newgrf "city builder cargo requirements" 19:03:08 <neofutur> that cant be found, i have the same problem with the other city builder server on the metaserver list 19:03:49 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:03:53 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: probably of no help at all: http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Lucy_Cherkasova/projects/fastreplica.html 19:04:58 <neofutur> frosch123: thanks for the link, i ll contact http://www.openttd.org/en/contact 19:05:12 <neofutur> I have dedicated servers in france with unlimited transfer 19:08:58 <neofutur> 100 GB is possible, recent servers have 2 TB raid 19:12:22 <neofutur> ah i needed the newgrf from the citybuider patch on the client side 19:12:32 <neofutur> it seems theres nowhere they can be downloaded online 19:13:01 <neofutur> yeah towns now need cargo ! 19:13:38 <neofutur> the server is named "testing citybuilder server" if anyone wants to help me test it 19:17:16 * neofutur emailed truebrain for the mirror proposal 19:19:56 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 19:19:56 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2302 19:19:56 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 19:19:56 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:22:19 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:45 <neofutur> TrueBrain: you have mail ;) query me for any question for the mirror proposal 19:23:01 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:23:42 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: the failure to find "NoSound" actually might well be related. Every OpenTTD comes with that soundset... 19:25:44 <andythenorth> I take it that we don't have so many donations we can afford a CDN? 19:25:44 *** Guest2302 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:26:31 <planetmaker> what's a CDN? 19:26:31 <planetmaker> nvm 19:27:02 <andythenorth> for us CDN means 'someone else has to worry about distributing the files around the world' 19:27:03 <andythenorth> maybe 19:27:07 <andythenorth> unless they screw up :P 19:27:21 <andythenorth> but it's â¬some per terabyte 19:27:44 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:27:44 * andythenorth points and waves at the 'buy newgrfs, â¬1 per download' idea :P 19:28:11 <planetmaker> we only allow signed newgrfs 19:29:21 <neofutur> http://just-ping.com/index.php?vh=static.ww7.be&c=&s=ping! 19:29:40 <neofutur> that is a cdn, content is distributed on many different ips in different datacenters 19:29:51 <neofutur> https://github.com/neofutur/myCDN 19:30:09 <neofutur> allows you to use appengine as a great free cdn 19:30:34 <neofutur> hum the town says it need steel to grow, but the stops are not needing it 19:31:12 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=62104&p=1039134#p1039134 <-- now. This is a question I happily answered :-) Haven't seen it ever :-) 19:32:05 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-36-54.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:42:21 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.89.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:45:11 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@172.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:58:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B52D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:17:29 *** telanus [~telanus@196-210-226-47.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:17:55 <neofutur> yeah, got a growing town on my citybuilder server for the fiereet time 20:18:04 <neofutur> first time 20:19:18 <neofutur> anyone know why luuklnd will shutdown his services 20:19:31 <neofutur> and why he sets such a high price ( 200 Keur ) ? 20:23:35 <Xaroth> because he's a muppet? 20:24:11 <neofutur> well he built something great, working well 20:24:17 <Xaroth> he's got something against openttd, but at the same time, he works with it 20:24:24 <Xaroth> which is a classic case of being a muppet 20:24:28 <neofutur> his servers are by far the most active 20:25:00 <neofutur> first i understood the price was 200 eur, I thought I d try to buy it :p 20:25:20 <Xaroth> heh 20:27:49 <frosch123> you can buy luukland for 200k⬠? 20:28:17 <frosch123> who would do that? they rather should ask for 200Mâ¬, that might get some facebook inverstors 20:29:24 <neofutur> frosch123: yup 200000 eur 20:29:38 <andythenorth> so that's about £14 sterling? 20:29:39 <neofutur> if no one pays he will shut it all down 20:32:52 <planetmaker> neofutur: that price tag exists as long as the servers exist 20:33:17 <Rubidium> no, it was half of that price 20:34:14 <planetmaker> it's a bad attempt trying to annoy us openttd devs, to illustrate that they don't share their ideas and code with us devils 20:35:09 <neofutur> its related to a licence problem ? 20:35:20 <Rubidium> yes, those OpenTTD devs are bad because they care more about the security of all OpenTTD users than the fun/hacks of a few 20:36:04 <neofutur> k, so better try to build a team around this free city building patch 20:36:19 <Xaroth> better to try and use NoGO 20:36:21 <planetmaker> neofutur: I would suggest... to use the game script approach 20:36:24 <neofutur> is there any plans to accept this city building patch in the official client ? 20:36:30 <planetmaker> no. never 20:36:31 <Xaroth> it can probably do 90%, if not more, of what luukland's servers do 20:36:39 <neofutur> why ? thats something people love ? 20:36:43 <planetmaker> as you can do the same with game scripts 20:36:49 <Xaroth> neofutur: NoGo can already do it 20:36:55 <Xaroth> why implement something that already can be done? 20:36:57 <planetmaker> which is the interface written for that exact purpose 20:37:26 <planetmaker> and there's at least three gamescripts in the online content which deal to some extent with town growth 20:37:28 <Xaroth> more so, why implement something -that cannot be changed without recompiling-, when there's already something in place that works somewhat dynamicly 20:37:30 <planetmaker> did you look at them? 20:38:28 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-28-41-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:38:37 <neofutur> no, this patch seem to provide a working server, i found no howto links to how to implement this with this nogo 20:38:50 <neofutur> and no working citybuilding server ewither 20:38:53 <Xaroth> that's because with NoGo you're not limited to what the script does.. 20:38:55 <neofutur> either 20:39:05 <planetmaker> ehm... 20:39:11 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-98-237.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 20:39:16 <planetmaker> game scripts do run serverside... 20:39:44 <planetmaker> really. Try to understand what game scripts do. How they work. How they can help you there 20:39:54 <neofutur> are there some examples of this kinf of scripts ? 20:39:56 <planetmaker> It really was written for that exact purpose. Just as a general API 20:40:03 <Xaroth> game scripts can already do more than the citybuilding patches do 20:40:04 <planetmaker> ... yes. 20:40:08 <neofutur> how many hours of work would I need to make it a citybuilding server ? 20:40:18 <planetmaker> 0 20:40:20 <neofutur> anyone ever tried ? 20:40:28 <planetmaker> just grab one of the game scripts which does that... 20:40:40 <planetmaker> undefined, if you want them to do exactly what *you* want 20:40:46 <neofutur> k I ll search again more info about this 20:40:47 <Xaroth> neofutur: judging from your lack of initiative, more than you think... 20:40:54 <planetmaker> then it's your programming knowledge in squirrel which defines it 20:41:48 <neofutur> Xaroth: lack of initiative on what ? 20:42:04 <neofutur> for now my initiative is setting up a server, coming here on irc, trying to understand ? 20:42:13 <neofutur> what is youre problem Xaroth ? 20:42:20 <Xaroth> neofutur: well, we only mentioned NoGo 5 times, yet you only ask questions about it that can be googled/wiki'ed in seconds 20:42:50 <Xaroth> so to me, that shows a severe lack of initiative.. you want to make it work, but you don't want to spend any effort in doing so 20:43:09 <neofutur> no, I just discover this nogo thing 20:43:21 <neofutur> for now i have a working citybuilding based on the patch 20:43:34 <Xaroth> yes, but as mentioned several times already 20:43:34 <glx> using a patched server is rarely a good idea 20:43:42 <Xaroth> patches are not useful 20:43:54 <neofutur> patched server is not my problem, but the fact it needs a patched client is for sure a problem 20:44:06 <Xaroth> and that's where NoGo comes in :) 20:44:15 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.64.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:44:25 <Xaroth> there's a big post on the forum about it 20:44:31 <Xaroth> and no doubt several wiki pages 20:45:23 <neofutur> Xaroth: thanks for the link 20:46:00 <Xaroth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=57431 20:46:17 <Xaroth> and 20:46:18 <Xaroth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_script 20:46:31 <neofutur> thanks, that will help me stop bothering you by talking in here 20:46:44 <Xaroth> it doesn't bother me at all 20:48:51 <planetmaker> @logs 20:48:51 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 20:52:35 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:54:20 <neofutur> so , having a look at http://bananas.openttd.org/en/gs/ 20:54:53 <neofutur> the nearest script to a citybuilding game would be CityDomination ? 20:54:58 <andythenorth> bye 20:54:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 20:55:12 <planetmaker> It's one of those three I mentioned at 9am this morning, yes 20:57:09 <planetmaker> the "neighbors are important" is another very interesting one 20:59:23 <planetmaker> the city growth limiter might give interesting ideas as well. And as 4th even the transportgoals might be interesting 20:59:23 <neofutur> k now id need to learn this squirrel language 20:59:23 <planetmaker> neither does all what you want, most probably. But going by those 4 things, it's easy to extent them 21:00:00 <neofutur> any good links for learning this squirrel language ? 21:00:13 <frosch123> noone yet coded though an external highscore to put on some website 21:00:18 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-36-54.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:00:25 <frosch123> but nogo in principal also supports that 21:00:38 <Yexo> neofutur: http://squirrel-lang.org/ and maybe NoAI tutorial on wiki.openttd.org 21:03:02 <neofutur> many thanks 21:08:10 <neofutur> ok its near enough to C++ to seem possible 21:14:56 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176113041.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 21:15:11 <drac_boy> hi 21:21:47 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Hi (yet again) :-) 21:22:11 <drac_boy> hi tiles-bored english person :p 21:22:12 <drac_boy> heh heh 21:22:53 <frosch123> drac_boy: from the other side of the ocean? 21:23:30 <frosch123> i had a question yesterday which i still do not know the answer: do americans normally speak about "cooking a cake" instead of "baking a cake"? 21:24:53 <drac_boy> isn't someone from britan considered english? 21:24:59 <drac_boy> or I must be mixing up my memory :-s 21:25:25 <frosch123> a scotsman might kill you for that 21:25:51 <__ln__> or a welshman, such as batman 21:27:24 <drac_boy> heh ok fair enough 21:28:55 <Rubidium> drac_boy: just like all French people put "Stop" on their "Stop" signs, except those not being French but speaking French near America; they put "Arrêt" on their signs 21:29:52 <__ln__> "near America".... 21:30:02 <Rubidium> likewise Americans, though speaking English are not using the same words/phrases 21:31:42 <Rubidium> e.g. caboose vs guard/brake van 21:32:02 <Rubidium> or cotton candy vs candy floss 21:32:31 <drac_boy> heh 21:32:36 <frosch123> or "i could care less" vs "i coudn't care less" :p 21:33:13 <Rubidium> or streetcar vs tram 21:33:17 <frosch123> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXJHip7Su5o 21:39:49 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 21:41:38 <neofutur> [2012-08-08 23:05:09] dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer 21:41:55 <neofutur> what does this mean ? a buggy client or some kind of attack against the server ? 21:41:56 <__ln__> also some verbs have regular past tenses in the US, whereas the same verb is irregular in britain. can't remember an example. 21:43:13 <neofutur> Rubidium: http://www.mediadico.com/dictionnaire/definition/stopper/ 21:43:22 <neofutur> stopper is a french verb 21:43:37 <neofutur> you can say "je stoppe" in french 21:43:53 <neofutur> but yes, should be stoppe and not just stop 21:43:58 <Rubidium> neofutur: I know that 21:44:36 <Rubidium> still the French-tongued Canadians use Arrêt on their stop signs 21:45:25 <frosch123> are you sure that the french-tongued placed those signs? 21:45:29 <neofutur> grumph now I have a working citybuilding server its hard to decide to spend hours developping a nogo script ;( 21:45:44 <frosch123> maybe it were rather the english ones, being worried about french driving skills 21:45:50 <Mazur> No, __ln__, I reckon they have irregular conjugations, only the masses in the US never payed attention in school, so they've forgotten to use them. 21:46:16 <frosch123> neofutur: sell it for 200k 21:46:18 <neofutur> using nogo i ll be able to tell the server to rename a town, or to build a bank in town ? 21:46:34 <frosch123> then you can pay someone to develop the nogo one 21:47:28 <Rubidium> frosch123: I'm quite sure, the English tongued wanted to get rid of the French tongued 21:47:35 <neofutur> eh luukland is selling more than just a server, and the opensource citybuilding script is not yet as good as the luukland one 21:47:58 <__ln__> Mazur: *payed*? 21:49:09 <frosch123> neofutur: if something is worth 200k, you must be able to gain 20k per year with it; or you really have to find someone stupid 21:49:39 <__ln__> Mazur: anyway, that's the prescriptive approach to the phenomenon, but the descriptive is to acknowledge that native speakers actually use the language like that. 21:51:19 <glx> Rubidium: wiktionary says the word "stop" is used since 1792 and is from english 21:52:03 <planetmaker> neofutur: you miss one big advantage of the script approach: with scripts you can offer much more variety in the gameing experience than you ever can do with a patch. Like this very specific "citybuilder" 21:52:13 <glx> so as always french canadians use the original word 21:52:26 <neofutur> frosch123: I agree, that should be sold 200eur, perhaps its possible to earn 100$ /month with it . . . not even sure :p 21:52:30 <planetmaker> the latter is severely limited. While the scripts allow you to keep your players at an edge. Or implement secretly some easter eggs 21:53:01 <planetmaker> well. you don't even need to do it secretly. Most people won't even notice when you do it in plain sight ;-) 21:54:18 <neofutur> but still this question, having a nogo script allows me to drive the server, changing anything ? like renaming a town or adding a bank in a town ? 21:55:01 <frosch123> i am not sure about naming a town 21:55:10 <frosch123> you can place signs or show addtional text in the town gui 21:55:17 <frosch123> but i don't think you can rename them 21:56:22 <frosch123> anyway, night 21:56:26 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6564.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:53 <neofutur> renaming the town to the owner / player name seems needed 21:57:11 <neofutur> having a system to "claim" a town too 21:57:41 <glx> there is a SetText() function 21:58:39 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176113041.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:59:24 <Xaroth> neofutur: look at it this way, if the codebase changes in areas where your patch works, you'll have to fiddle for hours upon end to get it working again 21:59:29 <Xaroth> that is not likely with NoGo 22:00:17 <glx> and it's always possible to add functions in the API if really needed 22:00:23 <neofutur> Xaroth: agreed, its probably a better approach ;) but much more work too 22:01:02 <neofutur> grep SetText gamescripts_nogo/*/* find nothing ;( 22:01:03 <Xaroth> it's a matter of spending time now, and getting it right, or being forced to spend time later :) 22:01:04 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 22:01:05 <glx> (via patches of course but easier to get them accepted than a big hack) 22:01:38 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176110771.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 22:01:41 <glx> http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSTown.html#3e6f1594e5c86b9b1b8cbe952979e51d 22:01:43 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-36-54.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120731150526]] 22:01:46 <drac_boy> sorry...some silly brownout in the area here :-s 22:02:26 <neofutur> ah I needed this class reference function list ;) 22:02:30 <neofutur> thanks glx 22:03:09 <glx> http://nogo.openttd.org/api/ <-- that's the root :) 22:04:21 <FLHerne> Why does ottdcoop bundles have 'ogfx-trains', 'fork-ogfx-trains' and 'fork-fork-opengfx-trains'? :P 22:04:37 <FLHerne> And more to the point, which one should I care about? :P 22:04:39 <glx> because they like forks ? 22:09:44 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 22:14:25 <neofutur> strange there is getname and settext, if its the same property, shouldnt they be names getname and setname, or gettext and settext ? 22:18:05 <NGC3982> http://soundcloud.com/sibirish_musik 22:18:17 <glx> neofutur: it's not the same property 22:20:53 <neofutur> ok, so theres indeed no SetName 22:25:40 <glx> it should be possible to add it 22:26:01 <neofutur> k 22:26:23 <glx> as renaming a town is allowed on the server 22:26:45 <neofutur> also, theres a function to protect a "owned" city ? so that only the owner can build near this town ? 22:26:55 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:27:40 <drac_boy> neofutur what do you consider 'near' btw? 22:28:43 <neofutur> the area wouls probably be relative to the town sie 22:28:48 <neofutur> size 22:29:18 <neofutur> like 10 tiles around city for a 500 city, 20 tiles for 2000 size . . . 22:29:48 <drac_boy> oh ok just wanted be sure you was not going to block out players from being able to lay lines through a city-close-to-mountain flatland section .. or even a powerplant few tiles outside a city 22:29:56 <drac_boy> and umm 20 is kinda a bit too wide, but 10 is ok 22:30:30 <neofutur> yup 20 could be too big, depending on the map size 22:30:52 <neofutur> this should probably be a setting of the game script 22:31:00 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:31:04 <drac_boy> bye Wolf01 22:31:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:32:02 <drac_boy> well neofutur I don't have any complain but on the other hand I can't help, never really play ottd much (less now that theres almost no green dotted servers in list at times :-s ) 22:32:30 <neofutur> why do you have no green dot ? yo use an old version ? 22:32:31 <drac_boy> I only can recall that the luk-something server (you did mention that too didn't you?) had some sort of script that blocked you from placing your hq in an already-taken town 22:32:38 <drac_boy> neofutur nope...chrill 22:33:05 <neofutur> more than just Hq on luukland, theeere is this type of protected area around owned towns 22:34:38 <drac_boy> oh luukland mm 22:37:25 * neofutur wonders what chrill means 22:38:22 <drac_boy> the chrill patch version of ottd 22:40:12 <neofutur> citybuilder patch or something else ? 22:40:49 <drac_boy> something else 22:40:59 <neofutur> k 22:41:12 * neofutur now have a working server for the citybuilder patch 22:41:35 <neofutur> gotta add goods requirement for bigger towns and its done 22:42:23 <drac_boy> :) 22:42:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B52D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:44 <neofutur> since it will probably take me months to make it a nogo script, i ll still try to have good citybuilding servers waiting for it 22:57:11 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:12:25 <neofutur> any citybuilder player around to play with me and test the settings of my server ? 23:13:07 <drac_boy> not me sorry, don't know who else could be not asleep on their keyboard now :p 23:13:09 <drac_boy> heh 23:17:51 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:18:28 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:22:35 *** nicfer [~Administr@190.50.13.162] has joined #openttd 23:22:57 *** chester_ [~chester@95-27-103-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 23:23:01 <nicfer> hello again 23:24:22 <drac_boy> hi nicfer 23:26:09 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Hugs to all] 23:26:52 <nicfer> one question, can I create a map with the minimum town distance patch and load that into a patch pack? 23:27:23 <nicfer> that patch pack doesn't have MTD 23:36:46 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-0-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 23:42:43 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-39-174.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:53:46 *** nicfer [~Administr@190.50.13.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:48 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176110771.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 23:59:16 *** chester_ [~chester@95-27-103-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]