Log for #openttd on 15th August 2012:
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00:18:57  <Wolf01> night
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00:32:01  <drac_boy> hi chrill-not-chill
00:32:03  <drac_boy> heh heh
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00:40:20  <Chrill> hi drac_boy not dracula!
00:40:29  <Chrill> chill really needs to change his name :O
00:40:35  <Chrill> chillax patchpack
00:40:39  <Chrill> sounds weird..
00:41:48  <drac_boy> heh well its too late, its already out? :)
00:42:03  <drac_boy> how're you still?
00:42:08  <Chrill> im fine
00:42:09  <Chrill> you?
00:47:31  <peter1138> herpyderpy
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00:50:12  <drac_boy> doing ok ty
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07:20:08  <NGC3982> herpy derpy
07:24:07  <peter1138> Yes and no
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07:38:22  <NGC3982> I just noticed the parameter functions on ECS and 2CC.
07:38:47  <NGC3982> Quadroupled costs + No-industry-closing make a neat scenario.
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10:38:24  <drac_boy> hi
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10:48:33  <Terkhen> good morning
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10:49:19  <V453000> afternoon Terkhen :p
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10:49:44  <Wolf01> hello o/
10:49:48  <Terkhen> it's morning for me :)
10:49:50  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
10:52:41  <drac_boy> V453000 its morning here as well :p
10:52:57  <V453000> well I guess it depends on how you declare morning
10:54:03  <drac_boy> anything from dawn to before noon :)
10:54:28  <Terkhen> nah, it is not "really" morning here, but it felt like morning for me
10:57:44  <V453000> that is what I mean :D
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11:18:35  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: that doesn't apply, because it was after 12:00 when you joined
11:19:09  <drac_boy> its actually 06:43 now silly
11:19:21  <Eddi|zuHause> unless "noon" means "highest point of the sun", then that would put it at 13:00 in summer
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13:46:00  <Belugas> hello
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14:12:12  * Belugas is working on implementing threads for work@work. SQL queries through threads. Lovely
14:12:22  <Belugas> boss has so many crazy ideas...
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14:25:44  <Rubidium> oh, one of those bosses that heard "threads" and/or "multi-core computing" and thus wants to add threads to an application
14:26:13  <Rubidium> good luck making it slower by doing the SQL query in another thread and waiting for that thread to complete before continueing
14:28:06  <frosch123> is threading in delphi still as broken as it was 10 years ago?
14:28:50  <frosch123> back then was: newer use the "synchronize" methjod, it locks up the application when exiting
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14:30:00  <Rubidium> on the other hand, doing a SQL query on a database server offloads it to another thread ;)
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14:32:59  <Belugas> well... i do not neet to fetch a result, it's an update/insert/delete stuff
14:33:26  <Belugas> the point was more to free up the program for not important immediate processing
14:33:45  <Belugas> idea is good, and Delphi 4 is diong the job fine, so far
14:37:33  <Belugas> synchronize is indeed to avoid for most usage.  i go with CriticalSections instead.
14:38:00  <Belugas> tricky, i need to create my one TSession for each thread accessing BDE :S
15:14:31  <kais58> I hate SQL
15:14:48  <lilleman> I love SQL
15:24:31  <Belugas> I love SQL too.  very effective
15:24:53  <Warod> map-reduce is nice too. :>
15:25:11  <Belugas> I guess you hate it when you don't either know it or use it or are good with it
15:25:52  <Warod> Or know too much of things done with it.
15:28:04  <Rubidium> for certain things SQL isn't very effective though
15:30:25  <Belugas> granted
15:30:29  <lilleman> SQL is not very good at cooking food :/
15:30:51  <Belugas> but for a POS system/chain of stores management, it is quite effective
15:31:18  <Belugas> when on-time data is not required, as an example...
15:34:10  <Belugas> note that i might be tempted with a faster i/o based db system for cash sales and such
15:34:21  <Belugas> sometimes, it's a bit too much
15:34:48  <Belugas> robustness and speed sometimes clash
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16:42:49  <__ln__>
16:43:57  <BenTrein> Time to learn Chinese fellows.
16:48:33  <Starlight> Doesn't look bad.
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17:22:22  <NGC3982> __ln__: GRF it! GRF it before it lay eggs!
17:29:09  <BenTrein> :D
17:31:21  <NGC3982> Does a town stop accepting water at some point in tropical climate?
17:31:40  <BenTrein> As long as it keeps it's watertower it should keep accepting it.
17:31:47  <BenTrein> Or are you talking ecs?
17:32:07  <NGC3982> ECS.
17:32:16  <BenTrein> Ah, sorry. I got no idea. :D
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17:32:35  <NGC3982> I didnt really realize that i didnt have a water tower at all
17:33:18  <BenTrein> :) Maybe that helps.
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18:20:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r24473 /trunk/src/lang/portuguese.txt:
18:20:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:20:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by filipemsoares
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18:31:02  <andythenorth> hola
18:31:17  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
18:31:28  <andythenorth> hmm
18:31:37  <andythenorth> who here is familiar with Club-Mate?
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18:39:54  <andythenorth> Alberth: \o/
18:40:07  <andythenorth> this stuff
18:40:09  <andythenorth> is goo
18:40:10  <andythenorth> d
18:40:11  <andythenorth>
18:41:18  <Alberth> Man gewöhnt sich daran    :)
18:42:25  <Alberth> so you're super hyper now with all that cafeine? :)
18:42:45  <andythenorth> not today
18:42:52  <andythenorth> today I am having caffeine crash
18:44:52  <NGC3982> I just love how i can deliver steel to a tinning factory and create food for a nearby town.
18:45:02  <NGC3982> It's like soylent transformers or something.
18:46:32  <andythenorth> this channel has a minor soylent obsession
18:46:38  <Belugas> better then caffeine trash
18:46:40  <andythenorth> :P
18:46:46  <Wolf01> yeah, that's my ottd museum :D
18:52:55  <NGC3982> Wolf01: I love that.
18:53:11  <NGC3982> I so want to live in a place like that
18:58:45  <Rubidium> the heating bill will be horrible
18:59:20  <Belugas> may want to visit this one, NGC3982 :
18:59:36  <Belugas> half an hour drive from my place :)
19:00:30  <Rubidium> just horrid accessibility from the main train station :(
19:04:14  <Belugas> quite
19:04:57  <Belugas> ho. did you tried to visit it?  would you have wished?
19:05:09  * Starlight does have a minor shunting yard near by. :3
19:05:10  <Belugas> sorry, it did not cross my mind it would be interesting for you
19:05:26  <Belugas> make one in lego, Starlight :)
19:05:34  <Rubidium> when I saw the horrid connection there I chose not to go
19:05:46  <Rubidium> and do some other stuff, rather than sit 4 hours in transit
19:06:01  <Rubidium> especially since I've been to something similar in Cowgary
19:07:33  <Starlight> Ha. Well, considering where I live, I think it connects to multiple locations. I do have a freight line track right across the street. The train comes around at night carrying coal (I think?) and .. as OpenTTD would have; Iron Ore (again! I think?) to the Steel Mill.
19:08:12  <Starlight> All I know is, they are defiently coal hoppers from CSX.
19:08:21  <Belugas> true, Rubidium.  so instead, we've sat for more then 4 hours in my car :D
19:08:41  <Belugas> plus, i assumed you have your share of trains in a yearly basis ;)
19:09:16  <Rubidium> yep, even "cattle class" ;)
19:10:24  <NGC3982> Belugas: ;)
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19:12:43  <Rubidium> is pretty much cattle class ;)
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19:13:14  <andythenorth> is that in HEQS?
19:13:41  <Rubidium> I doubt that, neither in the Dutch train set
19:13:47  <Rubidium> although I didn't ask about that one
19:13:53  <andythenorth> how many PAX does it carry? :P
19:14:42  <Rubidium> it has "seats" for two (besides the drive)
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19:14:49  <Rubidium> comfort class: NaN
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19:18:28  <Belugas> Rubidium, you didnot meant that type of cattle class, don't you? :
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19:31:00  * andythenorth tries Alberth's industry patch
19:31:20  <Alberth> (08:54:30 PM) Alberth: andythenorth:  <-- shall I add indonesian.lng ?
19:31:34  <andythenorth> ok :)
19:32:27  <andythenorth> hmm
19:32:48  <andythenorth> using my leet shell skills, I should be able to pipe this output to a file
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19:33:56  <Alberth> ./openttd -d ind=4 >& tzelogvile
19:34:11  <andythenorth> the & helps :)
19:35:30  <Alberth> it's a bit blunt, it redicrects everything :)
19:36:18  <andythenorth> hmm
19:36:30  <andythenorth> the total number of +ve or -ve seems to be roughly balanced
19:36:55  <andythenorth> 1 too few currently
19:37:11  <andythenorth> I am deliberately testing an easy case - flat map, lots of space
19:37:23  <Alberth> yeah, it's pretty good at reaching the required number of industries :p
19:37:58  <andythenorth> not sure how often the cb is running
19:38:07  <andythenorth> I ffwed about 1 year of game time, and get 4 runs
19:38:14  <andythenorth> approx
19:48:25  <Alberth> it has been a few years, I don't have the details in my head any more. You could try to bulldoze a few industries, and see what happens
19:49:43  <frosch123> andythenorth: i think it depends on the map size
19:49:59  <frosch123> maybe once per month on 256x256 ?
19:55:52  <andythenorth> maybe I should add game month + year to the debug output
20:05:02  <andythenorth> hmm
20:05:51  <andythenorth> just got a scrap yard and steel mill in 1879
20:05:53  <andythenorth> available since 1873
20:06:42  <andythenorth> '1' is not a very large sample
20:06:54  <andythenorth> I would have to play a lot of games I guess
20:07:21  <andythenorth> hmm
20:07:39  <andythenorth> "Target count recalculated"
20:07:46  <andythenorth> followed by ""Scrap Yard" opened"
20:08:04  <andythenorth> changed from "1 too few" to "4 too few"
20:09:05  <Alberth> Target count recalculated means some industry availability or random probability changed, so it re-computes (with a random number generator) how many industries to  make of each type
20:09:52  <Alberth> the use of the RG means that the numbers will change a bit every time
20:10:46  <andythenorth> ok, so it does listen to cb 22
20:10:49  <andythenorth> by some means
20:10:55  <Alberth> How do you make a callback?
20:11:09  <Alberth> of ocurse it listens to the newgrf :)
20:11:19  <andythenorth> I assume you mean 'how to add to ottd?'
20:11:21  <andythenorth> :)
20:11:40  <Alberth> yes, if you know that :)
20:11:45  <andythenorth> hmm
20:11:49  <andythenorth> one min
20:11:55  <Alberth> but I'd settle for a few NFO lines too :)
20:12:25  <Alberth> the newgrf specs are just horrible, they don't explain anything
20:12:38  <andythenorth> a patch does though :)
20:12:39  <andythenorth> one min
20:13:38  <andythenorth> Alberth:
20:13:47  <andythenorth> that was accepted so must be ok :)
20:15:00  <andythenorth> add it to a newgrf_callbacks.h, add to newgrf_debug_data.h
20:15:12  <andythenorth> (don't need debug if not trying for trunk inclusion)
20:15:18  <andythenorth> add code to industry_cmd.cpp to handle it
20:15:31  <andythenorth> then you'll need a test grf
20:15:42  <andythenorth> extending nml is trivial; grfcodec less so
20:16:06  <Alberth> grfcodec fails to just code what I tell it to?
20:16:14  <Alberth> *encode
20:16:19  <frosch123> andy means nforenum
20:16:22  <andythenorth> it or nforenum _might_ throw errors
20:16:43  <andythenorth> it's harder to take renum out of a FIRS nfo build than to fix nml :P
20:16:47  <andythenorth> anyway
20:16:52  <andythenorth> it's solvable
20:17:22  <Alberth> I would hope that nforrenum makes noise when using undefined cb's :)
20:17:29  <Alberth> -r
20:19:03  <Alberth> My problem is currently that I don't know which action to use for defining a cb.
20:19:29  <NGC3982> Im not understanding the ECS wiki
20:19:52  <NGC3982> I note that number of visits + full load is the best way to handle ECS vectors
20:20:00  <NGC3982> But i have no idea why.
20:20:03  <Alberth> NGC3982: you understand the newgrf specs wiki? maybe we can swap our problems :p
20:20:16  <andythenorth> Alberth: action in nml? nfo?  or ottd?
20:20:32  <frosch123> what are you actually heading for?
20:20:39  <frosch123> i did not quite understand that :s
20:20:56  <NGC3982> Alberth: <not>.
20:21:20  <andythenorth> Alberth: adding a cb is deceptively easy :)
20:21:29  <andythenorth> that's why my patch got accepted :P
20:22:52  <Alberth> I was thinking to start with moving the total number of industries number into a newgrf cb.
20:24:43  <andythenorth> what return values are valid?
20:24:46  <andythenorth> byte or word?
20:24:52  <Alberth> word
20:25:26  <andythenorth> result is got from something like:
20:25:28  <andythenorth> uint16 res = GetIndustryCallback(CBID_INDUSTRY_PROD_CHANGE_BUILD, 0, 0, i, type, INVALID_TILE);
20:25:33  <frosch123> Alberth: a single callback for total amount? or per industry type?
20:25:39  <frosch123> the latter would be the same as cb22
20:25:47  <Alberth> total amount
20:25:57  <andythenorth> allowing values other than '55' :P
20:26:02  <frosch123> for a single callback independent of industry type, you want a so called "generic callback"
20:27:27  <frosch123> take a look at AmbientSoundEffectCallback for an example
20:27:45  <Alberth> and taking mapsize and industry density into account by the newgrf may make sense too
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20:29:13  * andythenorth is playing a FIRS game in 1870s and enjoying it
20:29:42  <andythenorth> setting 0 intro date for some more industries helps prevent broken chains in 1870
20:29:45  <andythenorth> = more fun
20:30:05  <andythenorth> but also my train set doesn't have trains until 1905
20:30:12  <andythenorth> so I only have steam trams and ships
20:30:16  <andythenorth> minimal = a little more fun
20:33:57  <Alberth> did you see the post about making a game script for FIRS andy?
20:34:03  <andythenorth> where's it to?
20:34:37  <Alberth>
20:34:44  <andythenorth> ta
20:35:25  <andythenorth> hmm
20:35:34  <andythenorth> well that will provide evidence at least
20:35:45  <andythenorth> I've given up again trying to solve GS and am sticking to the newgrf end :P
20:35:57  <andythenorth> I know zero about GS, so I'm incompetent there
20:40:05  <andythenorth> ugh
20:40:14  <andythenorth> I just found one of the reasons I hate FIRS
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20:42:21  <andythenorth> gah I hate farms
20:42:24  <andythenorth> I've done them all wrong
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20:43:00  <planetmaker> hello
20:43:59  <andythenorth> lo planetmaker
20:44:57  <planetmaker> what's 'all wrong' about farms, andythenorth?
20:45:14  <planetmaker> how they work? how they look? their overall existence?
20:45:23  <Alberth> they are too much left, otherwise they would be right :)
20:45:48  <andythenorth> they're fun with one cargo
20:45:52  <andythenorth> I like the clustering
20:46:01  <andythenorth> as soon as I want to ship both cargos and/or deliver supplies
20:46:07  <andythenorth> I either have horrible contention
20:46:15  <andythenorth> or I have to surround each farm with infrastructure
20:46:28  <andythenorth> which is (a) boring (b) dumb (c) doesn't look nice
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20:47:54  <andythenorth> ach
20:48:00  <andythenorth> I want to do something evil
20:48:04  <planetmaker> :-)
20:48:12  <andythenorth> each farm cluster also gains a farm supply drop off industry
20:48:13  <planetmaker> or rather >:-O
20:48:29  <andythenorth> and industries can communicate :P
20:48:33  <andythenorth> which o/c they can't :P
20:49:09  <andythenorth> if I was using trains or boats I could use autorefit and backload supplies
20:49:22  <andythenorth> but serving all farms with trains or boats also looks stupid
20:49:46  <andythenorth> and HEQS trams shouldn't autorefit (they do, but then the game throws nice error messages :D )
20:50:18  <andythenorth> in summary, I don't like unwinnable problems
20:50:27  <andythenorth> there's no win condition that can be reached here with the available tools :P
20:53:31  <planetmaker> what's wrong with using RV to supply farms from a nearby depot (=transfer station)?
20:54:40  <andythenorth> too many stations :)
20:54:58  <andythenorth> the problem isn't specific to farms really; it's specific to the number of cargos to pickup / dropoff
20:55:00  <planetmaker> one per farm? :-)
20:55:15  <andythenorth> it just looks stupid at farms, whereas at processing industries it looks correct
20:55:38  <andythenorth> pickup stations block, so waiting loops etc are needed
20:56:10  <andythenorth> I can't actually think of a good solution beyond complaining ;)
20:56:27  <andythenorth> I offered 'farms are one big industry' but it seemed unpopular
20:57:12  <andythenorth> I guess changing supplies algorithm might count as a fix
20:57:26  <andythenorth> one big delivery occasionally instead of trying to get small deliveries through the congestion
20:57:31  <planetmaker> for farms with short path to supply depot you can forgo the "full load" order and just use normal load. Thus won't block
20:58:11  <planetmaker> with road side stops it won't even really show much
20:58:22  <Alberth> give up on trying to get maximum amount of cargo from them?
20:59:00  <planetmaker> maybe :-P
20:59:32  <planetmaker> with really max production... it's difficult to use only one. But a few well-placed stops do. As one station
21:00:22  <andythenorth> hmm
21:00:46  <andythenorth> not using full load might be plausible if I can match vehicles to output better
21:01:13  <andythenorth> someone had a patch for something like 'wait in depot until station is free' or such
21:01:29  <andythenorth> would prevent blocking
21:01:32  <andythenorth> bit fiddly
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21:02:37  <planetmaker> station will be free, if you don't use full load
21:02:41  <planetmaker> or you really have too many vehicles
21:02:53  <andythenorth> what rules out the "load at least x%" idea that's suggested occasionally ?
21:02:53  <planetmaker> rather you need means to time schedule the vehicles properly
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21:03:54  <andythenorth> I should maybe match vehicles to output
21:04:02  <andythenorth> trams have 4x monthly output
21:04:06  <andythenorth> so take 4 months to load
21:04:41  <andythenorth> but travel time means more smaller vehicles would be needed
21:04:46  <andythenorth> and that's higher capital cost
21:05:33  <andythenorth> there's no obvious single cause or fix for this
21:05:50  <andythenorth> rv-wagons would allow a tram to have one supply vehicle at the end
21:06:02  <andythenorth> changing FIRS supplies would allow occasional large deliveries
21:06:25  <andythenorth> inter-industry communication would allow a completely different approach to supplies
21:06:40  <andythenorth> could do this as a town-effect cargo :P
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21:09:46  <frosch123> night
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21:10:05  <andythenorth> hmm
21:10:11  <andythenorth> my game is building missing industries
21:10:30  <andythenorth> Alberth: if the game had *lots* of missing types it might not play catchup so well?
21:10:40  <andythenorth> whereas if there are few it has a better chance?
21:10:54  <andythenorth> or does it adjust required amounts proportionally?
21:11:25  <andythenorth> ah, also frequency matters
21:13:06  <Alberth> the missing industry types that are forced to exist are separately handled from the random count, and take priority, except that there has to be missing industries
21:13:25  <Alberth> (as pointed out by Eddi)
21:14:39  <Alberth> I don't remember what happens exactly when it is up-to-date, it might just verify that the probabilities have not changed, and quit
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21:16:59  * Alberth doubts the action 2 in the cb tut defines 133 loading stages :p
21:17:24  <planetmaker> hehe, rather not. iirc you can only have 4
21:17:59  <andythenorth> Alberth: ok, it's interesting to watch opening on a FIRS game
21:18:03  <andythenorth> it's not science :P
21:18:23  <andythenorth> I know have 0 slots, I think all available chains have at least one instance
21:18:31  <andythenorth> but some are in small proportion
21:18:46  <andythenorth> I need to try using cb22 to dump their probability to maximum maybe
21:19:07  <andythenorth> but to make that work I have to count industries to prevent spamming the map with the new type over 50 years or so :P
21:19:13  <andythenorth> and that needs map scaling too
21:19:46  <andythenorth> not tonight :)
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21:20:14  <drac_boy> hi
21:20:35  <Alberth>  <-- what's the 85 in sprite 13 ?  says it's a num-loadtypes
21:20:46  <andythenorth> I have vehicles that will take >70 years to pay back their purchase cost :)
21:21:05  <Alberth> no sleep tonight thus :)
21:21:33  <andythenorth> 85?
21:21:39  <andythenorth> var size(?)
21:21:45  <andythenorth> I am no good with terms
21:21:48  <drac_boy> 70 years..why?
21:21:48  <andythenorth> that's a word
21:22:02  <andythenorth> k purchase, 0/year profit
21:22:30  <andythenorth> Alberth: that varaction2 is checking a word sized var
21:22:43  <andythenorth> the one above is checking a byte, hence 81 there
21:23:01  <andythenorth> you'll see the ranges in each are appropriately word and byte sized too
21:23:21  <andythenorth> you need varaction 2 spec, not action 2 spec
21:23:24  <andythenorth> ;)
21:23:37  <andythenorth>
21:24:02  <drac_boy> does it only carry like 1 or 2 tonnes of cargo?
21:24:41  <Alberth> how should I reach that conclusion?
21:25:11  <Alberth> drac_boy: or too close to make any useful profit, or too slow, or too high running cost, or ... :)
21:26:06  <andythenorth> it carries 4 crates
21:27:57  <Alberth> one thing that might be useful to change is to check the percentage of missing industries instead of the count.
21:28:59  <andythenorth> so try to build the idealised ratio according to probabilities?
21:29:27  <andythenorth> hmm
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21:29:46  <andythenorth> what's the actual issue I see?
21:30:10  <andythenorth> - num. industries matters where enough primaries are needed to supply a secondary with decent production
21:31:06  <andythenorth> - num industries slightly matters on larger maps, to avoid huge distances between supply / accept, but that could be solved by cb28
21:31:23  <andythenorth> second reason is a non-reason actually
21:31:54  <Alberth> right, so action 3 assumes variational action 2 instead of normal action 2?
21:32:14  <Alberth> grr, why didn't they give them a new action number
21:32:48  <andythenorth> action 3 is happy with an action 2 or varaction 2
21:33:21  <andythenorth> it's easier if you turn sanity checks off in your brain
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21:33:32  <andythenorth> nfo is completely fine (except stations)
21:33:35  <Belugas> that would make an excellent boy movie... it does not lack actions...
21:33:41  <andythenorth> but don't expect a nice design
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21:34:07  <Alberth> I always had the idea that computers did not do magic, but I must be too stupid
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21:34:35  <Alberth> first issue should be solvable with correct industry probabilities
21:34:51  <andythenorth> plausible
21:34:52  <Alberth> assuming there is enough room for constructing industries
21:34:56  <andythenorth> assuming that
21:35:03  <andythenorth> things look better on my flat map
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21:35:08  <andythenorth> I usually play mountainous
21:35:22  <andythenorth> flat has plenty of space for new types etc
21:35:49  <andythenorth> btw, I learnt nfo by taking zephyris' uncommented one line sprites, and breaking them to multi-lines with comments
21:36:01  <andythenorth> turns out 50% of my comments were wrong, but code still worked :P
21:36:08  *** Xaroth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:36:13  <andythenorth> understanding is not 100% essential for nfo :P
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21:36:21  <Alberth> you probably need the terraforming fix to get more industries built
21:36:47  <Alberth> well, it helps a lot when you can find out what page to read :p
21:37:25  <Alberth> well, enough today, good night andy
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21:38:47  * andythenorth bed too
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22:07:03  <andythenorth> flat docks please
22:07:06  <andythenorth> for use on rivers
22:07:09  <andythenorth> k thx bai
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22:11:54  <Starlight> .. Little does he know that rivers are objects. :s
22:12:36  <drac_boy> Starlight yeah, wonder where he got that confused :)
22:13:19  <Starlight> Lol. I don't know the under laying workings of OpenTTD, but rivers can be blown up. :P
22:15:08  <Starlight> GRF just seems to be a headache to me.. and if I were to code anything, I have to make sure it's compatible with [insert cargo/trainset/tracks/roads/station here].
22:18:30  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:20:05  <drac_boy> starlight I don't really see any need to..just make it generic, its rather simple
22:20:22  <Starlight> Hm. I might take a crack at it some day.
22:20:55  <drac_boy> although tracks do have a bit difficulity with different track gauge in term of pixels :/  (eg NG tracks need narrower platform clearances than SG ones)
22:21:22  <Starlight> Yeah, understandable.
22:21:42  * Zuu_ just posted yet another Game Script.
22:22:21  <Zuu_> Although in this case, it is actually not for players, but for people who want to write their own GS and might have use for my template GS.
22:26:01  <drac_boy> starlight mind you I'm sorta still debating the cargo labels in my slowly-coming-along grf yet :-s
22:26:37  <Starlight> Yeah. Was going to use ECS, but noticed it and NARS2 isn't too compatible at a certain year frame.
22:26:42  <drac_boy> at least the rolling stock list is almost finished..just some missing holes especially re no late goods wagons etc
22:26:59  <planetmaker> very nice idea, Zuu_ :-)
22:27:35  <drac_boy> I'm not planning to use any existing industries/cargos just yet tho..
22:27:47  <Starlight> *nod*
22:29:39  <planetmaker> a cargo is a common name associated with a label and some properties which sort-of describe it like weight per unit and payment rates
22:30:47  <Zuu_> planetmaker: it have been staying around on my harddrive for several months now and  SquireJames interest into creating a GS gave me the final push to tidy it up and publish for others to use too.
22:31:03  <planetmaker> :-)
22:32:05  <Zuu_> While I agree on the non-war wishes, I think that its better to let him experiment and do his thing and see what he may come up with.
22:32:59  <Zuu_> He could easily add a parameter to enable/disable war events as long as there are other events too.
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22:33:21  <planetmaker> I must have missed that thread them. I concur with your view, though
22:33:34  <Zuu_> <-- thread
22:34:46  <planetmaker> oh, I posted there :D
22:35:17  <planetmaker> 3 months 5 months ago...
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23:19:25  <NGC3982> Im dissapointed.
23:19:36  <NGC3982> I have not yet seen a Curiosity GRF.
23:19:52  * NGC3982 taps his wooden leg on the floor, giggles and goes to slep.
23:19:54  <NGC3982> +e.
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23:49:48  <argoneus> Hello
23:49:53  <argoneus> Can anyone here help me with AI development?
23:50:03  <argoneus> Or is this chat about the game only
23:54:09  <Terkhen> argoneus: this channel is for anything AI related
23:55:04  <Terkhen> but right now most of the usuals are sleeping already
23:55:06  <argoneus> I don't quite understand how lists here work
23:55:20  <argoneus> for example, I can't get it to print the list of towns alphabetically
23:55:32  <Terkhen> I don't know much about AI development myself, so I can't help you
23:55:35  <argoneus> I see
23:55:48  <Terkhen> you might want to give the AI development subforum a try
23:55:58  <Terkhen> and, IIRC, there are tutorials at the wiki
23:56:25  <argoneus> I'm following those
23:58:07  <planetmaker> argoneus: and you had a look at existing AIs as well?
23:58:23  <argoneus> planetmaker: yes, but they are extremely complex
23:58:26  <argoneus> for me anyway

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