Log for #openttd on 18th September 2012:
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05:02:38  <Supercheese> Boy, not much happens in here between ~3PM and ~10PM [GMT -8]
05:04:18  <Rubidium> well... call it midnight to morning [Europe] and see if it's that odd
05:04:31  <Supercheese> I know, just surprised there aren't more Americans
05:04:44  <Supercheese> or Canadians
05:04:51  <Supercheese> or anyone else around these time zones
05:05:08  <__ln__> or Canadian Americans
05:09:46  * Supercheese wonders if he is the only user in the channel in GMT -8
05:13:50  <Supercheese> or at least, the only one who posts
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05:56:21  <__ln__> people (including me) have embraced this unusual habit of sleeping at night recently.
06:01:00  <szaman> every hour of sleeping before midnight is twice as valuable as an hour after
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06:02:51  <szaman> i could elaborate more, but.. i'm already im my pijamas
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08:01:04  <NGC3982> Morning.
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08:02:28  <NGC3982> My intuition was that most people in this was residents of the -2 to the +2 timezones.
08:02:34  <NGC3982> in this channel*
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08:07:01  <__ln__> NGC3982: GMT-1, GMT-2?
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08:08:27  <NGC3982> Yes, though. I don't think people really live in GMT-2.
08:08:42  <NGC3982> It's like Greenland and the Atlantic ocean, afaik.
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08:08:57  <__ln__> GMT-1 is extremely rare as well; see
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08:18:16  <Eddi|zuHause> this game was _always_ way more popular in europe than it was in america
08:19:52  <Eddi|zuHause> and most of europe is GMT+1
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08:54:36  <__ln__> if ignoring Russia and other insignificantly small countries
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09:10:19  <Rubidium> after all, trains and busses aren't as popular in the US/Canada than in Europe
09:11:15  <Rubidium> I know one person in the QC time zone, however that person is generally only online during QC working hours
09:11:44  <Eddi|zuHause> "cis-uralian" russia has only a fraction of the population of the EU
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09:32:36  <fjb> Moin.
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10:12:35  <TrueBrain> hello mister fjb
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11:23:58  <Simonn> woop woop
11:24:32  <Simonn> how is openttd doing today
11:24:36  <Simonn> still jaleous of my awesome city?
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11:59:11  * fjb honestly dislikes Simonns city.
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12:00:01  <Simonn> :(((((((
12:00:02  <Simonn> fjb
12:00:05  <Simonn> BLASPHEMY!!
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12:06:11  * fjb is not religious.
12:07:49  <fjb> Simonn: Everybody has his own style of playing OpenTTD. That is part of the fun of this game.
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12:08:11  <Simonn> no! my style only :<
12:17:14  <Simonn> is it possible to move trains to antoher depot
12:17:17  <Simonn> like with a magical wand
12:20:02  <fjb> No, drive them over your rail network.
12:28:01  <Fremen> or sell and buy new, it will have same orders the first time :)
12:30:08  <Simonn> geab
12:30:10  <Simonn> yeah
12:30:24  <Simonn> I had about 30 trains stuck in a depot that kind of got cut off during my railroad reconstructions
12:30:32  <Fremen> ouch :p
12:31:08  <Simonn> naah I managed to drive em out
12:32:05  <Simonn> it just took a lil while :p
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12:51:51  <V453000> that would be amazing to teleport trains over whole map in no time just by drag and drop between depots
12:51:58  <V453000> so, code it and give Simonn credit!
12:52:00  <V453000> at once
12:52:21  <Simonn> my idea! my idea!
12:52:42  <__ln__> yes, nobody leaves the channel until the feature is ready and committed.
12:52:49  <NGC3982> 7part
12:52:56  <NGC3982> Oh, snap. A second too late.
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12:53:12  <NGC3982> Oh well. How can i contribute? I want that. Badly.
12:53:23  <V453000> :D
12:53:53  <Simonn> it's not unrealistic
12:53:57  <Simonn> you have choppers
12:54:06  <Simonn> so make a feature that would take the train by chopper to another detop
12:54:06  <NGC3982> Got damn good choppers.
12:54:10  <Simonn> depot*
12:54:27  <V453000> why wouldnt you just drive the trains to another depot if you need them elsewhere (apart from the argument that it is slower)
12:54:43  <Simonn> cuz the depot was cut off lol dangit
12:54:44  <Simonn> anyways
12:54:54  <Simonn> I have airport which is heavily congested with planes
12:54:58  <Simonn> if I make helicopters fly on it too
12:55:02  <Simonn> while they be stuck in plane traffic too?
12:55:04  <Simonn> or is it seperate?
12:55:14  <V453000> yes!
12:55:23  <V453000> (ultimate answer)
12:55:35  <Simonn> wait, seperate yes
12:55:37  <Simonn> or stuck in traffic yes
12:55:41  <V453000> yes
12:55:49  <Simonn> fu
12:55:53  <V453000> yes!
12:56:08  <Simonn> :(
12:56:20  <V453000> how about you try it and answer yourself
12:56:25  <__ln__> teleporting trains between depots is not more unplausible than trains just materializing in depots in the middle of nowhere.
12:56:27  <V453000> takes about 24 seconds
12:56:28  <planetmaker> yes!
12:56:36  <V453000> yees!
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12:56:48  <Simonn> then I would have to buy a helicopter
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12:56:55  <Simonn> and I'm just a poor white boy from a poor family
12:56:58  <V453000> oh god sorry to have suggested something like that
12:57:02  <NGC3982> :D
12:57:15  <V453000> buying a helicopter when you have an airport with a shitload of aircraft already
12:57:16  <Simonn> if the helicopter thing doesn't work my company'll go bankrupt and I'd have to live on the streets
12:57:20  <V453000> what an idiotic idea, sorry
12:57:26  <NGC3982> __ln__: Actually, i would say it is.
12:57:26  <planetmaker> even Tom Sawyer was richer. Surely. Or Huckleberry Fin
12:58:04  <__ln__> NGC3982: your opinion is noted and ignored
12:58:09  <NGC3982> __ln__: Since you can start with building trains from nothing, the game process ignore where the engine or car parts come from. That goes for the moving between depots process too, right?
12:58:14  <NGC3982> Oh.
12:58:16  <NGC3982> Oh well.
12:58:21  * NGC3982 materializes.
12:58:39  <KenjiE20> openttd scale; anywhere between 10m and 1000m
12:58:54  * NGC3982 kind of likes having to drive trains to where they should go.
12:59:32  <NGC3982> Actually, im used to simply using one depot for bigger systems.
12:59:33  <__ln__> How fun would it be if there were train factories which provided the engines and wagons?
12:59:38  <NGC3982> And i fancy it, fairly.
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13:00:04  <V453000> its nice how one completely worthless idea can fire up a discussion :D
13:00:26  <NGC3982> Hehe
13:00:41  <NGC3982> Where's Andy. I need his reflections on soylent green.
13:00:42  <Simonn> worthless idea
13:00:45  <NGC3982> (:D)
13:00:46  <Simonn> :<
13:00:58  <Simonn> that was mean
13:01:01  <__ln__> NGC3982: Teleporting would be an abstraction of moving the engines/other stuff by some method not visible in the game.
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13:01:11  <NGC3982> Simonn: It's not worthless, though, not that usable.
13:01:18  <Simonn> you are all jaleous
13:01:19  <Simonn> of my city
13:01:21  <Simonn> I see how it is
13:01:44  <NGC3982> __ln__: Yes, indeed.
13:01:57  <NGC3982> __ln__: If my sarcasm has yet not been noted, i suggest you fetch a pen. :P
13:01:58  <KenjiE20> meh, I've seen bigger
13:02:12  <NGC3982> Simonn: Pix or it didn't happend.
13:02:34  <__ln__> KenjiE20: "that's what she said"?
13:02:59  <KenjiE20> heyoo
13:03:16  <NGC3982> I was thinking;
13:03:30  <NGC3982> I wish to make an experimental copy of the Vacuum Tube Train NewGRF.
13:03:35  <NGC3982> For private use, of course.
13:04:16  <NGC3982> Since i can't reserve the NewGRF into workable NML files, i guess i need to find them separately. I don't - so; Is it a bad idea to ask the creator?
13:04:33  <NGC3982> Without breaking any moral or licence code, that is.
13:04:43  <NGC3982> -reserve +reverse
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13:13:29  <Simonn>
13:17:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Simonn: find the magic of the zoomed-in screenshot in the ?-menu
13:17:54  <Simonn> fully or default?
13:18:05  <Simonn> aaaaaaaaaa I did default and the game is stuck
13:18:06  <KenjiE20> Eddi|zuHause: he doesn't want to show the masses of green just off camera :p
13:18:38  <Eddi|zuHause> no, not the giant screenshot
13:18:41  <KenjiE20> Simonn: writing a GB sized screenshot will do that
13:18:43  <Eddi|zuHause> the zoomed-in screenshot
13:18:52  <Simonn> so the default?
13:19:08  <Eddi|zuHause> no, not the normal screenshot, the zoomed-in screenshot
13:19:28  <Simonn> lol
13:19:32  <Simonn> yes but the DEFAULT ZOOMED
13:19:35  <Simonn> or FULLY ZOOMED
13:19:36  <Simonn> :p
13:20:14  <Simonn> before I upload I need you all to sign a non disclosure form
13:20:18  <Eddi|zuHause> the zoomed-in screenshot captures the currently visible area on screen, but with all details
13:20:26  <Simonn> so no knowhow leaks out of my company
13:20:56  <Simonn> it's uploading I think it might take a while
13:21:25  <KenjiE20> because you are truly using super zekret techniques that totally aren't listed on wikis
13:23:48  <V453000> !!!
13:26:39  <Simonn> Well.. not saying super secret, but the thing I did with the ....
13:26:41  <Simonn> WAIT
13:26:42  <Simonn> don't trick me
13:32:55  <Simonn> I'm doing the screenshot right now
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13:34:20  <Simonn> i'm a lil nurvous
13:36:38  <planetmaker> __ln__ PSG 201 and PSG 96 are examples of megalopolis in OpenTTD ;-)
13:36:39  <NGC3982> 'Nurvous' sounds like a villain from early Star Trek.
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13:41:03  * KenjiE20 grumbles
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13:41:15  <KenjiE20> planetmaker: PSG207 I think had more cityscape
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13:42:59  <Belugas> hello
13:43:01  <planetmaker> maybe. It's like psg 96 I remember playing myself. Skuping the 750k+ city of "New York" there. Was a nice thing. psg 201 has a biggest city of just over 500k. But in total there is are 9 cities with 250k+ and a world population of 3M+ or so
13:43:06  <planetmaker> hi Belugas
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13:43:35  <KenjiE20> the archive image of 207 is the map set to towns iirc
13:43:49  <planetmaker> I don't know psg 207 :-) But 201 surely is town everywhere
13:44:49  <Belugas> sir planetmaker, i salute ya
13:45:31  <NGC3982> Princess*
13:47:39  <Simonn>
13:48:28  <KenjiE20> doesn't look like it's uploaded yet
13:48:57  <Simonn> thats weird
13:48:59  <Simonn> it should be
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13:49:24  <KenjiE20> Unable to preview this image.
13:49:49  <Simonn> cuz it's too big
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13:49:55  <Simonn> (thats what she said)
13:50:00  <Simonn> you have to click download bottom right
13:56:46  <peter1138> 23MB screenshot...
13:57:07  <KenjiE20> yeah, I'm having dropbox do limited speed sync on it
13:58:11  <Simonn> There isn't a virus in the screenshot
13:58:13  <Simonn> promise!!
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14:02:57  * KenjiE20 is not sure that was worth the time >.>
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14:23:51  <V453000> who drew Dutch Signals?
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14:29:28  <Eddi|zuHause> ok... i give up... i'm seriously unable to compile CETS on my system
14:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it spends 99% of the time swapping, and blocking my system
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15:30:42  <Simonn> KenjiE20 don't you like my city???? :'(
15:31:03  <KenjiE20> it's not very interesting :V
15:31:18  <Simonn> :'(
15:31:27  <Simonn> all I see is jaleousy
15:31:35  <planetmaker> what did you do to your system, Eddi|zuHause ? I very much assume it worked before?
15:32:05  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: nothing that i know of
15:32:24  <Eddi|zuHause> except update nml a few weeks ago
15:32:34  <planetmaker> so, does it work with an old(er) NML?
15:32:42  <planetmaker> If so, can you find out which broke it?
15:32:53  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't test
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16:55:27  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I didn't get silver :P
16:55:31  <andythenorth> one is even harder than two
16:55:33  <andythenorth> :)
16:55:54  <andythenorth> we had about 4,500t the quarter after the goal year
16:56:09  <andythenorth> frosch123 Silicon Valley notes....
16:56:10  <planetmaker> hm, sad. I would have bet you make it.
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16:56:37  <andythenorth> 1) due to base costs mod, it's possible to fund cheap primaries.  I don't think this is a problem, I think it's a valid strategy to win
16:56:58  <andythenorth> 2) could make the goal by stopping a very large number of vehicles, then letting them deliver in one quarter
16:57:06  <andythenorth> i.e. stockpiling resource in transit
16:57:10  <andythenorth> seems a bit more cheating :P
16:57:19  <frosch123> yes, i know about 2
16:57:26  <frosch123> the only solutions to that are
16:57:43  <frosch123> 2a) dismiss any time interval, and make it like nocargoal
16:57:52  <frosch123> 2b) make the time interval and the maount even bigger
16:58:01  <frosch123> i don't like either of them
16:58:08  <andythenorth> it's probably fine
16:58:12  <andythenorth> it's just bad form :P
16:58:23  <planetmaker> andy and myself gave it a shot yesterday... dunno how many game years, 10 initially?
16:58:24  <frosch123> i want to encurage that people do something completely different in the beginning and only in the end go for the goal
16:58:42  <andythenorth> I did that :P
16:58:43  <planetmaker> we did something different in the beginning and had a huge pax money maker. Was very good
16:58:47  <andythenorth> I made supplies from oil too
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16:58:53  <frosch123> 1) sounds like a valid strategy to me
16:58:56  <andythenorth> yes
16:59:01  <frosch123> after all you can only prospect primaries
16:59:05  <andythenorth> no
16:59:09  <andythenorth> I had it set to fund
16:59:10  <frosch123> resp. if you build them , you can adjust the build cost separately
16:59:13  <planetmaker> hm, we had it set to build
16:59:15  <andythenorth> cost €millions
16:59:20  <andythenorth> but we had the money :P
16:59:32  <planetmaker> didn't cost millions. sandpit cost about 80k
16:59:34  <frosch123> well, no problem then
16:59:48  <planetmaker> iirc
16:59:52  <frosch123> i believe the basecost mod is grf v7
17:00:09  <planetmaker> anyway, we were in the state of "money is no issue" :-)
17:00:11  <frosch123> so, unless you adjsuted the raw industry cost as well, it might have become cheap as well
17:00:18  <planetmaker> yeah, it probably is. So we might need to update it :-)
17:00:39  <planetmaker> hm, does parameter gui support drop-downs meanwhile?
17:00:49  <frosch123> since half a year :p
17:00:56  <planetmaker> :D
17:01:16  <planetmaker> Time to update the basecost NewGRF then, I guess
17:01:31  <frosch123> when i looked at it, it rather looked like rewrite :p
17:01:43  <planetmaker> yes. It's still NFO, I think
17:01:44  <frosch123> the parameter usage does not really fit the parameter gui
17:02:01  <frosch123> its more for setting a few parameters as integers, but quite cumbersome with the gui
17:02:39  <frosch123> [18:55] <andythenorth> planetmaker: I didn't get silver :P <- you only made bronze?
17:02:40  <planetmaker> Well, what would be a good concept?
17:02:52  <frosch123> planetmaker: just a combobox for each cost?
17:02:54  <planetmaker> My idea is to offer drop-downs of the cost to change and 2nd parameter the value
17:02:59  <frosch123> all default to "unchanged"
17:03:11  <planetmaker> how combo box?
17:03:15  <frosch123> planetmaker: that's what it currently does
17:03:30  <frosch123> but selecting the cost type and then the cost feels silly to me
17:03:46  <frosch123> you only need half of the settings if you just add one parameter for each cost
17:03:47  <planetmaker> but I can't introduce as many parameters as there are base costs iirc
17:03:59  * planetmaker checks
17:04:03  <frosch123> there are less than 128 basecosts :p
17:04:12  <planetmaker> NML can do 64
17:04:49  <frosch123> ok, we have 70 basecosts
17:04:53  <frosch123> *71
17:05:09  <frosch123> so unless you can put them into the same parameter (via bitmasks), nml will fail
17:05:18  <frosch123> or just write it in real nfo :)
17:05:25  <planetmaker> outch :-)
17:05:26  <frosch123> or rahter pnfo
17:05:35  <frosch123> no bashnfo
17:06:13  <planetmaker> :-)
17:06:23  <frosch123> planetmaker: i would likely rather write it in nfo, than looking up how nml works :p
17:06:48  <planetmaker> he. writing grf parameters in NML is dead easy
17:06:55  <frosch123> though if you want to add translations, nml becmoes easier
17:07:13  <planetmaker> extending the number of available parameters in NML... might not be. Though it might just be a constant. Dunno
17:07:33  <planetmaker> should even be feasible to make that a dynamic property
17:07:49  <planetmaker> after all the number of grf parameters is quickly known when parsing code
17:07:58  <planetmaker> s/code/grf block/
17:08:18  <frosch123> planetmaker: rather add a min_bit and max_bit to the "param" thingie
17:08:28  <frosch123> a14 allows putting multiple settings into one parameter
17:08:33  <planetmaker> yup
17:09:21  <frosch123> resp. extent the "bit" thingie which is currently only supported for bools
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17:31:06  <andythenorth> BadBrett: I disagree that 100 bad ideas are useful :)
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17:32:16  * planetmaker started with a small nml grf on base costs...
17:32:22  * planetmaker is off now for sports though
17:33:41  <andythenorth> bye planetmaker
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17:40:29  <andythenorth> frosch123: if you want 'do A then B' gameplay, just build in stages
17:41:51  <andythenorth> what's the nintendo game called with lots of mini challenges?
17:42:11  <__ln__> tetris?
17:42:22  <Zuu> mario world?
17:42:48  <andythenorth> nah
17:42:53  <andythenorth> it's rapid fire
17:43:02  <andythenorth> you have about 10s per mini game
17:45:51  <Eddi|zuHause> pretty much all nintendo games consist of minigames
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18:25:11  <andythenorth> ho whack-a-tree GS looks fun
18:27:57  <Alberth> hmm, there was something I wanted to check with it
18:31:19  <frosch123> widelands has a game mode where the guy with the most trees on his land wins
18:37:10  <andythenorth> lots of interesting GS ideas :P
18:48:45  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but that usually means the guy with the largest territory
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18:49:07  <frosch123> depends on the map
18:49:38  <andythenorth> mountains!
18:49:43  <andythenorth> can't plant trees in desert...
18:49:53  <Wolf01> hello
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18:51:53  <Alberth> hello
18:52:33  <andythenorth> frosch123: GS with 12 mini challenges, you get 3 at random?
18:52:40  <andythenorth> in parallel or in series
18:53:14  * andythenorth prefers parallel
18:53:35  <andythenorth> if you fail challenge 1 in a series challenge, you know you can't win
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18:54:00  <frosch123> 1. make a million
18:54:03  <frosch123> 2. buy stocks
18:54:05  <frosch123> 3. bankrupt
18:54:51  <andythenorth> umm
18:55:11  <andythenorth> seriously Railroad Tycoon had some awesome challenges related to stock market
18:55:24  <andythenorth> it had full short selling / margin buying capability
18:55:34  <andythenorth> and you could enrich yourself and shaft your investors
18:55:46  <andythenorth> it was the required tactic for some scenarios
18:55:58  <andythenorth> quite appropriate lessons in how finance works :P
18:56:27  <Eddi|zuHause>  <andythenorth> can't plant trees in desert... <-- in widelands you can, but they grow very slowly
18:58:26  <andythenorth> NewTrees?
18:58:30  <andythenorth> ugh
18:58:37  <andythenorth> that would take years to agree a spec for :P
18:58:57  <andythenorth> so changing the subject
18:59:06  <andythenorth> is the 'orders by cargo' patch in dev forum any good?
19:02:07  <Alberth> are there comments in FS?
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19:06:39  <andythenorth> didn't see any
19:07:00  <andythenorth>
19:09:43  * FLHerne wants that patch yesterday :P
19:10:16  <Alberth> you're in luck, it was there yesterday too :)
19:10:25  <FLHerne> Also conditional orders based on currently-loaded cargo - does that exist yet?
19:11:32  <Alberth> orders seem to explode somewhat in complexity :)
19:12:15  <FLHerne> Yes, but with autorefit I don't want to send my train to every station on the off-chance that it's now carrying 8 types of cargo ;-)
19:12:37  <andythenorth> one of the things I like about these multiplayer GS challenges....
19:12:45  <andythenorth> ...they drive a bus through all this complexity crap
19:13:05  <andythenorth> all these fine details get replaced by 'pffff'
19:13:35  <Alberth> :)
19:13:56  <FLHerne> It would be neat to say 'go to coal-drop if carrying coal, then goto ore drop if carrying ore, then goto bauxite drop if carrying bauxite, then goto clay drop if carrying clay, then goto sand drop if carrying sand'... :P
19:14:02  <andythenorth> there's no time to destroy the fun by obsessing over train-spotter details
19:14:28  <andythenorth> [in a 2 hour GS challenge]
19:14:29  <Alberth> FLHerne: I am starting to think you'd really need to reconsider how to enter orders
19:14:46  <andythenorth> it's much more like having a magical dispatcher
19:14:48  <FLHerne> At the moment all my trains have to take rather indirect routes just in case they're carrying all those cargoes at the same time :P
19:14:51  <andythenorth> or an AI for dispatching
19:15:07  <FLHerne> Alberth: Correct solution is...?
19:15:21  <andythenorth> GS that builds your trains for you
19:15:55  <andythenorth> and destroys them in depot if no cargo is waiting
19:15:55  <andythenorth> then builds more
19:16:28  <Alberth> andythenorth:you're confusing AIs with GSs :)
19:18:13  <Alberth> FLHerne: I don't know, it needs a cunning plan
19:19:41  <andythenorth> also all trains should be a 1/8 unit, that carries 1t cargo, and can travel at 5,000mph
19:19:41  <andythenorth> this is the most efficient way to get flow imho
19:19:41  <andythenorth> it's all the same to me :P
19:19:41  <andythenorth> 'magic'
19:19:42  <andythenorth> btw, it's a useful money maker to send vehicles from large city to nearest other town, then sell them
19:19:42  <andythenorth> and buy new at other end
19:19:44  <andythenorth> even better is 2 large cities, but that's not always possible :P
19:19:46  <andythenorth> (this is with pax or mail)
19:20:20  <FLHerne> Alberth: Not using the same trains to transport every mineral cargo in FIRS might help, I guess, but that would be boring :P
19:21:51  <andythenorth> sounds like a solution that involves writing less code
19:21:56  <andythenorth> less code is usually better
19:22:19  <andythenorth> so an interesting side effect of new FIRS supplies mechanic: it can collapse completely
19:22:40  <andythenorth> it's quite bubble-like
19:22:52  <Alberth> FLHerne: use the same train to go to each mine in turn?
19:23:33  <andythenorth> just run a single dedicated line between each source and destination, with one train on it
19:24:42  <andythenorth> as Chris Sawyer intended
19:25:48  <Alberth> but he also gave us signals!
19:26:06  <andythenorth> only to trick you
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19:26:13  <Alberth> and the ability to build junctions :p
19:26:17  <FLHerne> Alberth: They're going from a single mega-transfer station to a wide assortment of secondary industries and other transfer stations ;-)
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19:26:19  <andythenorth> again, trickery
19:26:33  <FLHerne> All of which are along a roughly-straight line
19:26:44  <Alberth> bummer, I thought I understood this game :(
19:26:47  <andythenorth> should I try and prevent FIRS-supplies-total-collapse-behaviour or is it fine? :P
19:27:02  <FLHerne> andythenorth: What's FIRS-supplies-total-collapse-behaviour?
19:27:13  * FLHerne hasn't tested the nightly FIRS in a while
19:29:11  <andythenorth> so you get a supplies chain
19:29:19  <andythenorth> say coal->metal->ensp
19:29:24  <andythenorth> deliver back to the mine
19:29:27  <andythenorth> production increases
19:29:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r24531 /trunk/src/script/api/ (script_base.cpp script_base.hpp): -Fix: Max script chance was too big.
19:29:36  <andythenorth> now for some reason ensp aren't available
19:29:45  <andythenorth> the mine production falls from 4x to 1x
19:30:03  <andythenorth> exacerbating the problem of "supplies aren't available"
19:30:15  <andythenorth> the usual cause is too many vehicles picking up supplies, or a train jam
19:30:26  <andythenorth> it's quite fun so far, but that might wear thin
19:32:29  <andythenorth> better to play it and see
19:32:34  <andythenorth> explaining it is more boring
19:39:23  <andythenorth> pub
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20:07:27  <Terkhen> good night
20:08:23  <FLHerne> Dev-like people?
20:08:59  <FLHerne> Terkhen: Night :-)
20:09:13  <FLHerne> Ah, nvm :P
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20:46:18  <frosch123> night
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20:47:24  <Knogle> GS is based on Squirrel 2.2, right?
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20:51:08  <Eddi|zuHause> something like that
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21:00:07  <BadBrett> How do I get tractive effort to show up in the purchase menu? Do I have to enter it manually?
21:00:21  <Supercheese> You making a grf?
21:00:30  <Supercheese> in either case, you need realistic acceleration enabled
21:00:33  <Supercheese> advanced settings
21:01:15  <BadBrett> hmm thanks... i'll try that
21:02:07  <BadBrett> ah, that did the trick
21:02:14  <planetmaker> without realistic acceleration the concept of tractive effort is pointless
21:03:42  <BadBrett> yes... i realised that now :)
21:04:20  <BadBrett> i guess i always had it turned on in the older versions
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21:40:59  <MrDetermination> #openttdcoop
21:41:44  <MrDetermination> please to help newbie :)
21:42:11  * Supercheese does not OTTDCoop
21:42:19  <Supercheese> if that's even a verb :P
21:42:32  <MrDetermination> :D
21:43:04  <Zuu> MrDetermination: openttdcoop have a channel of their own. #openttdcoop :-)
21:45:11  <MrDetermination> its a single player game
21:45:26  <MrDetermination> i don't think im on the right schedule to play with those guys
21:45:30  <Supercheese> you can still go to the channel and ask questions
21:45:36  <Zuu> but yes, being american may give you less IRC support if you can't get online at european evenings.
21:46:22  <Zuu> but there should still be some eropeans staying up late night as well as some americans online too.
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21:47:17  <MrDetermination> its usually locked when I join public games at night and the IRC channel is dead.  im just trying to learn to play better... fine playing offline for a while to come
21:48:54  <BadBrett> stupid question #2: what property should i set to tell the game that my passenger car is a wagon and not an engine?
21:51:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: of course "cooperate" is a verb ;)
21:51:46  <Supercheese> for wagon and not engine
21:51:53  <Supercheese> just give it 0 hp I think
21:52:10  <Eddi|zuHause> correct
21:52:57  <BadBrett> ah thanks... i accidently deleted that property
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21:53:58  <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't set power, it will inherit the property from the default engine
21:54:55  <BadBrett> yeah... it makes sense
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21:58:23  <Wolf01> 'night all
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22:02:46  <BadBrett> Supercheese: Do you consider the fake subways finished or are you going to keep working on them?
22:03:40  <Supercheese> The London Underground consists are finished, unless someone draws the 2009 stock or something
22:03:47  <Supercheese> but I might add some of the subways from the 2CC set
22:03:59  <BadBrett> cool
22:04:10  <Supercheese> since it's GPL, makes it easy
22:04:26  <Supercheese> but atm, I'm playing World of Warplanes closed beta, so a bit busy
22:04:27  <Supercheese> ;)
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22:34:05  <BadBrett> that game looks quite fun actually
22:40:07  <Supercheese> they're patching tomorrow, it's going to be a big improvement
22:40:57  <FLHerne> Anyone here playing the 0ad alphas?
22:41:07  <BadBrett> nice
22:41:09  * FLHerne has been for a while :-)
22:44:13  <Supercheese> looks kinda like GPL age of empires
22:44:58  <Supercheese> mostly javascript? impressive
22:45:33  <FLHerne> Supercheese: But in full 3D :-)
22:45:37  * Supercheese downloads
22:45:51  <FLHerne> And I don't think that much of it is Javascript, TBH
22:46:00  <Supercheese> they say core is C++
22:46:14  <FLHerne> That sounds more sensible :P
22:46:14  <Supercheese> but they "try to use javscript as much as possible" rough quote
22:46:36  <Supercheese> Direct quote: "The engine core is written in C++ for performance, but the scripting language, javascript, is what we try to write as much in as possible. "
22:46:45  *** Hyronymus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:46:55  <FLHerne> Supercheese: Fair enough
22:47:51  <FLHerne> If you have a decent graphics card, you should definitely turn on the experimental effects. They look awesome :D
22:48:30  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:48:46  * Supercheese is running a GTX 560 Ti
22:48:54  <Supercheese> should work well
22:50:35  * FLHerne doesn't have anything quite that flashy - HD7770 :P
22:51:42  <FLHerne> Panning the camera right down to ground level, watching the trees sway gently in the breeze, and then suddenly a cavalry charge zooming past from out of shot is great :-)
22:51:52  <FLHerne> Can't do that in AoE :P
22:55:20  *** Devroush [] has quit []
22:56:22  * FLHerne goes to bed
22:56:28  <FLHerne> 'night :-)
23:04:43  <Supercheese> arg, upgrades are exclusive?
23:04:49  <Supercheese> you can choose one but not the other?
23:04:55  <Supercheese> not cool :(
23:08:37  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:09:15  <BadBrett> i haven't played a good RTS since AoeII
23:31:22  <Kitty> is there a way to add wagons to trains when using the replace vehicle dialogue ?
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23:35:58  <planetmaker> there's not, Kitty
23:49:31  <Kitty> arse
23:49:33  <Kitty> ah well
23:49:35  <Kitty> was worth a try
23:49:42  <Supercheese> there's a patch that can do it
23:49:50  <Supercheese> if you can compile your own build of OTTD
23:50:00  <Supercheese> or wait, maybe that one had precompiled binaries
23:50:19  <Supercheese>
23:51:24  <Supercheese> of course it likely won't be much good since you've a running game
23:53:00  <Supercheese> There's an older binary:
23:53:25  <Kitty> wasn't a major issue, I only needed to extend 4 trains
23:53:36  <Kitty> just wondered if there was an easy way to do it
23:53:48  <Supercheese> not in trunk OTTD (yet)
23:56:53  <planetmaker> on the risk of being called again an arrogant lying arse: no, there's no easy way to fix it either
23:57:56  <Supercheese> plenty of hard ways, though? ;)
23:58:26  <planetmaker> yes. The "proper" way to fix this is to implement a replacement scheme which allows replacing one consist by another
23:59:08  <planetmaker> so that you can define to replace all centennial with 5 wood flatbeds by turbotrains with 3 mail cars
23:59:12  <planetmaker> or similar

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