Log for #openttd on 20th September 2012:
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00:57:32  <Supercheese> Sorry, was afk and forgot to say
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01:11:31  <Supercheese> So excited for this new airship:
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01:12:47  <Supercheese> (audio unnecessary, just music)
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01:30:31  <Bad_Brett> woah! nice
01:31:03  <Supercheese> the small prototype is what's shown under construction
01:31:32  <Supercheese> their hope is to eventually build ones much larger as shown in their 3D renders
01:32:46  <Bad_Brett> kinda reminds me of the carryalls from Dune II
01:34:17  <Bad_Brett> what a game that was
01:34:27  <Bad_Brett> and is
01:35:40  <TinoDidriksen> They showcase it used for military airdrops. I doubt that will ever happen - way too big unarmored target.
01:35:58  <Supercheese> yeah, they're very ambitious
01:36:10  <Supercheese> the practical heads will likely prevail
01:38:04  <Supercheese> the military application I conjecture will be more for surveillance and transport far from combat
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01:38:37  <Supercheese> unless they can put some fancy countermeasures on it, I wouldn't take it near combat zones
01:38:40  <Bad_Brett> yeah i think so too
01:39:40  * Supercheese wants to make a GRF with that airship
01:39:51  <Bad_Brett> they probably won't drop tanks in the warzone
01:40:11  <Bad_Brett> you wanna see something scary? :)
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01:40:33  <Bad_Brett> apple store opens in a mall in sweden:
01:40:43  <Bad_Brett>
01:41:09  <Supercheese> holy crap is that the line
01:42:43  <Supercheese> what the heck are they doing :|
01:47:17  <Bad_Brett> that shit is like religion here
01:47:28  <Bad_Brett> it's like a religious cult of apple fans
01:48:00  <Supercheese> You know that Apple chose it's logo -- an apple with a bite taken out of it -- exactly for it's religious connotations?
01:48:04  <Supercheese> think about it
01:48:09  <Supercheese> its* logo
01:48:14  <Supercheese> its* CRAP
01:48:20  * Supercheese hates it's/its
01:48:33  <Bad_Brett> my girlfriend actually presented that theory a few days ago... so it's true?
01:48:38  <Supercheese> decidedly
01:48:54  <Supercheese> Thou shalt not die, said the serpent
01:49:04  <Supercheese> and all that
01:49:10  <Bad_Brett> yeah
01:49:11  <Bad_Brett> scary
01:49:54  <Bad_Brett> i bet the blue guys were paid a lot to keep the energy levels up
01:50:03  <Supercheese> possibly
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01:55:46  <Bad_Brett> i've seen a lot of strange videos from japan but this may be even harder for me to understand :/
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01:56:46  <Supercheese> afk dinner
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04:16:11  <Bad_Brett> Supercheese: do you have matlab?
04:16:29  <Supercheese> I don't have it installed on this machine but I have access to it
04:16:38  <Supercheese> never used it much though
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04:36:16  <Bad_Brett> ok... i'm doing my scenario in a matlab GUI that generates much of the nml code... it's not finished, but it's pretty good at handling sprites (renames, resizes sprites to all zoom levels and creates all the spritegroups) and you get a quite good overview over stuff... if you want to try it, just let me know :)
04:36:51  <Supercheese> lots of folks use C-preprocessing, with #defines and stuff
04:37:05  <Supercheese> the devzone and compile farm support it
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04:46:58  <Bad_Brett> i know, i did that first as well, using FIRS as a blueprint
04:57:26  <Bad_Brett> but i still believe that i will save a lot of time in the end by customizing a GUI, so that I quickly can do minor changes and get a good overview without having to worry about hundreds of text files
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05:35:54  <Supercheese> I personally either develop all in a single .nml file, or simple splits and #includes
05:36:01  <Supercheese> no fancy macro defining and whatnot
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06:39:46  <Knogle> morning
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07:07:38  <NGC3982> Morning!
07:08:17  <Supercheese> salvete, excitati
07:08:45  <NGC3982> It's a joyful day!
07:09:08  <Supercheese> wherefore thine exuberance?
07:10:17  <NGC3982> It's a sunny morning, I'm on the bus and I'm filled with jazz.
07:10:31  <telanus> Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening
07:10:43  <Supercheese> superb
07:11:35  <NGC3982> Good jazz.
07:11:43  <NGC3982> Very, very good jazz.
07:12:03  <__ln__> is that legal?
07:12:53  <NGC3982> What is?
07:14:39  <__ln__> you make "jazz" sound like some new drug or something. :)
07:14:58  <Kjetil> when in fact it is a very old drug
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07:43:58  <NGC3982> __ln__: Oh, well. It does have the same effects.
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08:03:14  <Supercheese> 'night all
08:03:28  <__ln__> good morning Supercheese
08:07:48  <Terkhen> good morning
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10:35:44  <fjb> Moin.
10:36:10  <telanus> moin
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12:00:29  <Simonn> sup tycoons
12:02:04  <__ln__> hello belgiumese person from belgiumland
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12:16:02  <NGC3982> bearnaise person*
12:16:09  <NGC3982> There, i fixed it'.
12:21:08  <Simonn> :<
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12:21:31  <Simonn> I am looking for a grf with planes which are very very big any ideas?
12:21:40  <Simonn> like futuristic very very big planes
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12:22:08  <planetmaker> There are about two planesets: av8 and WorldAirlinerSet
12:22:52  <Simonn> already took a look at those
12:22:52  <planetmaker> planes are not a suitable means of transport for huge quantities. Best throughput ingame is either by train or by ship
12:23:09  <Simonn> yeah I know I know
12:23:16  <Simonn> but I'm starting a new massive game and was wondering if there was such a plane
12:23:20  <Simonn> before I started one and found out about it later
12:24:53  <Beardie> A380-800F?
12:25:07  <Simonn> well that's still a bit small ;o
12:25:22  <Beardie> well i have made a A380-900F
12:25:24  <Beardie> its just not in the set lol
12:25:37  <Beardie> thats even bigger lol
12:25:51  <Simonn> how many passengers
12:25:58  <__ln__> but only one model of A380 currently exists in real life.
12:26:06  <Beardie> yes
12:26:37  * __ln__ was on an Airbus factory tour in Toulouse a month ago
12:26:47  <Beardie> A380-900 would have 700 pax and 70 mail
12:27:22  <Beardie> A380-900F would have 1300 mail
12:27:32  <Beardie> but as i said its not coded into WAS set yet
12:28:32  <Beardie> whe it is it should be the biggest realistic plane in openttd world ;)
12:29:15  <Frankr> Simmon if you want a massive plane you could decode a grf and then change one number in the Action 0 and it'll be done, :)
12:29:30  <Beardie> lol
12:30:08  <Beardie> just like i was tempted to make a version of was with concorde at 5,000mph just to see what it would be like LOL
12:30:25  <Beardie> then put the game on double speed
12:30:31  <Beardie> anway got to go
12:30:34  <Beardie> goodbye
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12:33:27  <Frankr> If you don't know how i could quite easily change the A380 and 747 pax to whatever you want and send you a private version of WAS
12:35:38  <Simonn> could you? <3
12:36:16  <Simonn> Could you like instead of 600 passengers 2500 passengers
12:36:21  <Simonn> and make it load/unload a bit faster
12:36:29  <Frankr> Well i am a developer of WAS, :)
12:37:04  <NGC3982> What's WAS? A NewGRF?
12:37:04  <Simonn> it's because I'm doing some building in the future
12:37:08  <Frankr> It would be under the one condition it would not be distributed and only for your private use
12:37:20  <Simonn> sure man
12:37:24  <Frankr> Just the A380?
12:37:26  * NGC3982 wants that too.
12:37:39  <Simonn> yea just the biggest, fastest plane of the set
12:37:41  <Simonn> the most 'futuristic'
12:37:52  <Frankr> WAS is World Airliners Set
12:38:03  <Frankr> ok, one sec
12:38:06  <Simonn> with 2500 passengers, some mail and better loading/unloading speed
12:38:21  <Simonn> maybe also make the cruising speed triple fast
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12:54:42  <NGC3982> 64Mk/h.
12:54:47  <NGC3982> That would be neat'.
12:54:50  <NGC3982> And profitable.
12:55:56  <TrueBrain> *burp*
12:56:55  <Frankr> I will leave it on for 25mins, please do not redistribute and use for private only
12:57:01  <Frankr> Simonn
12:57:19  <Simonn> okay man
12:57:20  <Simonn> thanks a lot
12:57:21  <Simonn> :D
12:58:22  <Frankr> Np glad to be of help
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14:07:02  <Spacks> hello anyone here?
14:07:10  <NGC3982> Might be.
14:07:46  <Spacks> got any experience with railroad tycoon?
14:10:58  <NGC3982> Not as a community, no.
14:12:50  <Spacks> what about personally?
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14:15:39  <NGC3982> Nope. Sorry.
14:15:50  <Terkhen> none myself either
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14:19:01  <Bad_Brett> i love railroad tycoon
14:19:07  <Belugas> hello
14:19:29  <Bad_Brett> the original from 1990 and deluxe from 1993 that is
14:20:24  <Bad_Brett> it's actually a much better game than the original TT
14:21:03  <NGC3982>
14:21:08  <NGC3982> That actually looks quite nice.
14:21:53  <Knogle> lol
14:25:25  <Eddi|zuHause> you could actually build doubletrack in RRT? or is that a "deluxe" feature?
14:25:35  <Bad_Brett> nope
14:25:37  <Bad_Brett> you could
14:25:41  <Bad_Brett> SHIFT+D
14:25:50  <Bad_Brett> if i remember it correctly
14:26:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess i didn't understand enough english to figure that out back then
14:26:30  <Bad_Brett> i think we discovered it by mistake actually
14:26:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i "lost" my copy due to a virus, though, so i couldn't play it very long
14:27:47  <NGC3982> :D
14:27:54  <NGC3982> Old school computer problems.
14:28:14  <Bad_Brett> the best strategy in general was to build horizontal railroads with double tracks and signal towers on every third tile... you could run 10 trains on the same line without problem
14:28:24  <NGC3982> I haven't noted a virus or trojan for a few years now
14:28:34  <NGC3982> And i haven't used any AV during that time.
14:28:44  <NGC3982> It seems like an old problem.
14:28:54  <NGC3982> Bad_Brett: Neat.
14:30:42  <Bad_Brett> yes... sadly, RRT2 had huge bugs that kind of ruined the whole game... RRT3 felt weird... and Sid Meyer's Railroads! must be one of the worst games i've ever played
14:30:56  <Bad_Brett> *Meier's
14:31:05  <Bad_Brett> I think it was that disappointment that brought me to the TT-forums
14:35:29  <Bad_Brett> i wanted to play a good transport simulator again
14:35:29  <Bad_Brett> and my goal is to capture some of the original RRT magic in my scenario
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14:52:33  <Simonn> I have a train station with 2 coal mines in range
14:52:39  <Simonn> and a couple of trains pas there
14:52:43  <Simonn> but only one train can load at the same time
14:52:45  <Simonn> :(( why?
14:53:56  <Bad_Brett> the second train should start loading when the first one is full i think
14:54:19  <Simonn> can't I make em all load at the same time?
14:57:58  <Bad_Brett> why would you want that?
14:58:57  <Rubidium> there's some advanced setting; I think it's called improved loading
14:59:27  <Rubidium> but that can leave the station full with 99% loaded trains and then all trains will try to depart at the same time
14:59:47  <Bad_Brett> yep
15:00:36  <Bad_Brett> you usually want to avoid that
15:01:17  <Bad_Brett> it's not very realistic either
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17:49:16  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, maybe it's because as a kid i played easier difficulties, but i totally can't manage RRT to turn a profitable business
17:51:24  <Bad_Brett> haha, are you playing right now?
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17:52:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i just stopped after 4 failed games
17:52:58  <Bad_Brett> build east-west, buy at least 30% of your own shares and build loco+1 mail+1 or 2 pass cars
17:53:57  <Bad_Brett> and try to claim the bonuses
17:54:25  <Bad_Brett> if you want to play aggressive, you can take over your opponents before they make any profit, steal their money and sell them off
17:54:31  <Bad_Brett> a bit dirty though
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18:04:28  <Razal> I have not found the answer to this elsewhere: With v1.2.2 and the eGRVTS newGRF, when I build a passenger tram line every stop incurs a Cost, not a Profit. Is that as designed?
18:05:07  <FLHerne> Razal: Are you using transfer orders?
18:05:17  <FLHerne> If not, you're just making a loss :P
18:05:36  <Razal> I've tried both ways, and varying distances
18:06:13  <Razal> oh.. Something I didn't think of. When I did try no transfers, there's a chance it was picking up transfer passengers. I bet that's what it is.
18:07:49  <Razal> Thank you. That was easier than I expected.
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18:58:20  <Wolf01> hello o/
19:04:28  <fjb> Moin Wolf01.
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19:15:23  <Alberth> hi Wolf01, fjb
19:15:45  <cheeeesey> Hey, is it allowed to upload videos on youtube and earn money?
19:15:59  <cheeeesey> i mean let's plays of openttd
19:17:04  <Yexo> it depends on which newgrfs/scenarios you use, if none: yes
19:17:30  <Yexo> if you use any newgrf/scenario it depends on their license, if you use any with for example a CC-NC license I don't think it's allowed
19:18:01  <Rubidium> there might also be issues when using the original graphics/sound/music
19:18:15  <valhallasw> and it depends on your jurisdiction
19:18:25  <valhallasw> in the US, a lot more is allowed under fair use
19:18:40  <Yexo> valhallasw: "earning money" is generally not "fair use"
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19:19:19  <Yexo> if those videos are just to promote OpenTTD without any gain for yourself it's much easier to defend as "fair use" and I'd say you're almost certainly in the clear
19:19:44  <valhallasw> Yexo: commercial or not is one of the factors
19:19:49  <valhallasw> but commercial use can be fair use
19:20:03  <Yexo> ok :)
19:20:26  <valhallasw> after all, it's typically used for things like reviews
19:20:27  <cheeeesey> ok thx
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19:20:53  <valhallasw> and 'back in the days', reviews were found in magazines... commercial magazines
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19:28:38  <andythenorth> what a load of crap happening here
19:28:42  <andythenorth> boring
19:28:54  <andythenorth> we should engineer this shit out
19:28:56  <andythenorth> or leave
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19:34:21  <Bad_Brett>  haha
19:34:26  <Bad_Brett> i thought the discussion was over?
19:35:14  <Bad_Brett> haha
19:35:26  <Bad_Brett> i'm not an angry guy really
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19:41:16  <Bad_Brett> but i think i made a valid point there. i think people didn't realised that the "arrogance" i talked about wasn't just in my topic, but the general attitude on the forums... i mean, some kid is really excited and asks where he can find a 32bpp graphics pack, and all the responses he gets are "let me google it for you" or "if you want graphics, do them yourself"
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19:42:25  <Yexo> Bad_Brett: I think it was very clear that you didn't talk just about that single topic. But I'm not going to continue the discussion here. If you have any problems with the attitude at the forum please open a new topic in "Forum moderation and feedback"
19:43:12  <Bad_Brett> nah, it's ok. just wanted to make sure. i just don't want to have a personal vendetta vid the devs :)
19:43:47  <Yexo> "the devs" don't exist like this. We're all separate people with our own opinions
19:45:05  <Bad_Brett> ok sorry... let me rephrase that: some of the programmers
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19:50:38  <Yexo> understood :)
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20:25:20  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i really have no cluew why this doesn't work out
20:29:23  * FLHerne is also disturbed by the hostility on the forums
20:29:58  <Supercheese> The important thing is that we all still get along after all is said and done, no?
20:30:42  <FLHerne> Dunno how many of the first-time posters who get flamed come back, though :-(
20:32:44  <FLHerne> I mean, just look at the newgrf-changing thing. Everyone gets angrily redirected to a [stickied] post that *is actually another copy of those threads, complete with the flaming and lmgtfy posts*, and doesn't have even a vague answer until two-thirds of the way down the first page!
20:33:06  <Supercheese> Yeah, that sticky is pretty bad
20:33:35  <Supercheese> but in all seriousness, actually searching will easily reveal the answer
20:33:47  * FLHerne considers reporting it...
20:33:50  <Supercheese> either Google of forum search
20:33:52  <Supercheese> or*
20:34:06  * FLHerne tries out the search function
20:34:34  <Supercheese> Google instant even suggests a search
20:34:37  <Supercheese> "openttd forum change newgrf in scenario"
20:34:49  <Supercheese> what I got when I typed "ottd forum ch"
20:36:18  <Supercheese> The fourth link from that search produced: "open consol and write set scenario_developer 1"
20:36:26  <Supercheese> so yeah, ~30 second search
20:36:35  <FLHerne> With the forum search, it seems to work as long as you already know what you want :P
20:36:38  <Yexo> FLHerne: but that post is sticky yet everyone who is "flamed" there somehow manages to not read it.
20:37:07  <Yexo> or any of the earlier topics, since as you say it's a repeat question
20:37:14  <FLHerne> Yexo: Well, it simply doesn't anwer the question it's supposed to explain...
20:37:18  <Yexo> what does that tell us about all those users asking the very same question again?
20:37:27  <Supercheese> As with most things, Google search seems to have better results than forum search
20:37:41  <Supercheese> but of course, the forums have an embedded Google search
20:38:50  <FLHerne> If you replaced it with a post that simply explained that the feature had been removed, described the reasons for it and explained (with appropriate disclaimers/warnings) how to reinstate it, *in the first post and easily understandable*, it would be a lot more use.
20:38:50  <Yexo> FLHerne: people who can't be bothered to read that sticky clearly aren't developers (they usually can read) and as such shouldn't find that function at all
20:39:17  <Yexo> that's true
20:39:37  <FLHerne> It's useful to people who aren't developers, too :P
20:40:07  <FLHerne> It has risks associated with it, but I'm willing to take those for some extra flexibility ;-)
20:40:19  <Yexo> could you write such a post? Considering that 1) the warnings have to be very clear 2) there should be a few links to posts indicating the problems (those are in the topic already) and 3) the explanation of how to enable it should be at the end
20:40:34  <Yexo> ^^ if you do, please pm me the text and I'll see if I can make a better sticky out of it
20:41:44  <FLHerne> I seem to remember seeing a draft by someone
20:41:51  * FLHerne searches the forum
20:42:19  <Supercheese> try Google search ;)
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20:50:41  * FLHerne gets distracted looking at xkcd again :o
20:57:57  <Wolf01> that guy is good on keeping our poor workers busy with his comics
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21:58:22  <NGC3982> I was wondering.
21:59:43  <NGC3982>
22:00:00  <NGC3982> This is how i usually build my systems (except with bigger signal spaces)
22:00:12  <NGC3982> It pretty quickly get clocked with trains.
22:00:36  <NGC3982> Might it help to simply add a "buffer track" in between, to be used on both tracks?
22:00:43  <NGC3982> Such as:
22:00:52  <Supercheese> Might as well quad-track at that point
22:00:58  <NGC3982> I guess.
22:01:03  <NGC3982> But it's not that fun.
22:01:07  <NGC3982> And it looks terrible.
22:01:16  <NGC3982> (With reservation on that ..that looks more terrible).
22:01:19  <Kjetil> lies, lies I tell you!
22:01:26  <Yexo> NGC3982: to make the middle track useful you'd have to add some signals there
22:01:50  <NGC3982> Yexo: Would two-way block's do the trick?
22:01:55  * NGC3982 experiments.
22:02:00  <Wolf01> 'night all
22:02:01  <Kjetil> why would it ?
22:02:02  <Yexo> no, stick to pathsignals
22:02:04  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:02:15  <Yexo> don't mix block signals with path signals, ever
22:03:04  <Markk> I do that.
22:03:10  <Supercheese> ^^ that is why the signals-in-tunnels/bridges patch has many issues
22:03:10  <Markk> But I know how to use both of them.
22:03:14  <NGC3982> I guess i can't use one-way path signals then, right
22:03:23  <NGC3982> Markk: Oh?
22:03:24  <Supercheese> well, part of why
22:03:25  <Yexo> Markk: within one junction?
22:03:32  <Markk> Yexo: yer
22:03:40  <Markk> Yexo: Depends on the size of the junction.
22:03:42  <Yexo> hmm, how is that useful?
22:03:50  * Yexo is curious :)
22:04:59  <Markk> Yexo: It depends on which type of junction it is.
22:05:05  <Markk> Yexo: But here I use both:
22:05:13  <Markk> Not the best example though.
22:05:45  <Supercheese> blarg, maglev tracks
22:05:45  <Yexo> that could've been done with only path signals
22:05:46  <NGC3982> Jesus.
22:05:48  <Supercheese> so hard to see junctions
22:06:40  <Yexo> Markk: still, you only mix them in a junction, not within one signal block, right? (all entries to one block are either block signals or path signals)?
22:08:22  <Markk>
22:08:26  <Markk> There is a better example.
22:08:27  <NGC3982>
22:08:40  <NGC3982> Markk: Oh, i do that.
22:08:49  <NGC3982> Im loving the symetry.
22:08:56  <Markk> mm
22:08:58  <Markk> Same here.
22:09:22  <Markk> Yexo: No, I don't.-
22:09:39  <Yexo> Markk: ok, so you do mix them, but it'd work exactly the same if all those normal block signals were replaced by one-way path signals
22:09:43  <Yexo> unless I'm overlooking something
22:09:48  <Markk> yep
22:10:02  <Yexo> great :)
22:10:09  <Yexo> means I can keep telling "don't mix" ;)
22:10:28  <Markk> But I don't like to use PBS if it's not necessary.
22:10:29  <NGC3982> Har
22:10:31  <NGC3982> This actually worked.
22:10:35  <NGC3982> And it worked great
22:10:50  <NGC3982> The only problem is that i have to keep the buffer zones as long as the longest trains.
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22:12:26  <Markk> yes
22:13:08  <NGC3982> And that sucks if you don't propagate trought thousands of tiles.
22:14:11  <NGC3982>
22:14:14  <NGC3982> Something like that.
22:15:33  <Markk> yeah
22:15:37  <peter1138> if i had my way it'd be path signals only ;p
22:15:40  <Markk> I don't really like that kind of building.
22:16:01  <NGC3982> Me neither. I wan't a single rail per direction and system.
22:16:10  <NGC3982> But that doesn't work that great in a 1500 train game.
22:16:11  <NGC3982> :(
22:24:09  <Markk> Works fine with dual tracks in each direction as well.
22:25:10  <NGC3982> Yes, of course. But it's no fun.
22:25:43  <Supercheese> "fun" is entirely a matter of opinion ;)
22:26:47  <Markk> I know
22:26:55  <Markk> I really like to have single rail.
22:27:23  <Markk> For both directions.
22:28:28  <NGC3982> mm
22:28:30  <NGC3982> Mm*
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22:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this game went so well, and suddenly everything turns south without me changing anything
22:46:20  <Terkhen> good night
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22:50:33  <BadBrett> still RRT?
23:11:51  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
23:12:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i now quit with 2 million in debt, even though i declared bankrupcy
23:16:01  <BadBrett> you lose money very quickly during recession if i remember it correctly
23:16:24  * TrueBrain is bored; how do I fix that?
23:16:25  <BadBrett> i've got to play as well, you got me all excited now :)
23:16:48  <BadBrett> are you playing original or deluxe?
23:25:17  <fjb> TrueBrain: Write an Eiffel compiler for Android.
23:25:33  <TrueBrain> why would I want to do that?
23:26:00  <fjb> It keeps you from being bored. :-)
23:26:09  <TrueBrain> valid answer :D
23:26:54  <fjb> And I would have use for such a thing. Java is sometimes a pain if you take object orientation serious.
23:27:09  <TrueBrain> sometimes? :P
23:28:11  <fjb> Java is not bad. Or not that bad. It is better than anything from the 60s. Or most things at least.
23:28:19  <TrueBrain> :D
23:28:22  <TrueBrain> except for music
23:28:57  <fjb> Oh, yes, musich was great then, especially compared to now.
23:29:21  <TrueBrain> :D
23:29:41  <fjb> But Java is no music.
23:29:52  <TrueBrain> really? Hmm
23:29:54  <TrueBrain> :D
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23:30:46  <fjb> Or is it? May be that is why I have such a difficulty with Java sometimes.
23:33:36  <NGC3982> Java is the Klingon opera of music genres.
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23:35:10  <fjb> Something like that. It could have been quite pleasant if they hadn*t cripled object orientation.
23:39:56  <TrueBrain> hehe, thatone is funny :D
23:42:05  <fjb> Do people who think that multi inheritance is obsolete really use object orientation? Or do they see objects just as another kind of struct?
23:42:37  <TrueBrain> hehe, annoying aint it?
23:44:06  <TrueBrain> but can I conclude here that you are rewriting OpenTTD in Java? :D
23:44:37  <fjb> Really. I have to inherit some classes from UI classes. That is logical. But then I have to implement the same stuff again and again when some classes do almost the same but use diffenrent UI elements.
23:44:51  <TrueBrain> use interfaces?
23:44:53  <fjb> TrueBrain: Not really. :-)
23:45:26  <fjb> Interfaces give not the implementation of a methode, just its signiture.
23:46:07  <fjb> So I have to write same code over and over again. And I have to work on the same code in diferent classes.
23:46:18  <TrueBrain> code duplication ftw!
23:46:22  <TrueBrain> nothing can ever go wrong!
23:46:37  <fjb> Code duplication is really evel.
23:46:54  <TrueBrain> one of the worst things a programmer can do
23:47:04  <TrueBrain> when you select and hit copy, think REALLY carefully what your next action is going to be :D
23:47:21  <fjb> I try to move the duplicated code to its own class. But then I have to link the classes somehow.
23:48:07  <TrueBrain> hmm .. guess I could go to bed
23:48:14  <TrueBrain> that sounds boring, but meh
23:48:17  <fjb> That leads to some none trivial helper classes.
23:48:57  <TrueBrain> btw, in Java you can put a class in a class
23:49:02  <TrueBrain> might help :D
23:49:21  <fjb> Going to bed is a good idea. I have to get up early. Helping my girl friend to clean her new home.
23:49:32  <TrueBrain> gratz on her new home
23:50:01  <fjb> TrueBrain: Yes, But you can not put the same inner class into different outer classes.
23:50:14  <fjb> Thank you. i will tell her.
23:50:24  <TrueBrain> but you can extend helper classes
23:50:30  <TrueBrain> but it gets rather ugly rather quick
23:50:53  <fjb> Yes, the helper classes really slow down the development.
23:51:06  <TrueBrain> hihi, he said slow in a reference to Java
23:51:07  <TrueBrain> hihi
23:51:44  <TrueBrain> bash a language once a day keeps the bad guys away
23:51:55  <fjb> I have to admit the compiled code runs much faster than expected. But the development is slow.
23:52:34  <fjb> But C# hast the same problems. No multi inheritance there eiter.
23:52:57  <TrueBrain> I had the issue with PHP too
23:53:07  <TrueBrain> can we conclude there is no multi inheritenace at all?
23:53:13  <fjb> And that are the both common languages which are sitting on a portable virtual language.
23:53:27  <TrueBrain> (emperic evidence ftw!)
23:53:43  <TrueBrain> do objc? :D
23:53:51  <fjb> C++ has multi inheritance. But it is ugly. Eifel does it in a really nice way.
23:54:30  <TrueBrain> when you say Eifel, I think France
23:54:32  <TrueBrain> Eifel
23:54:33  <TrueBrain> France
23:54:35  <TrueBrain> Eifel
23:54:36  <fjb> Objective C is even worse. Who can really read what he once wrote in that obscure kind of C?
23:54:36  <TrueBrain> France
23:54:38  <TrueBrain> see
23:54:52  <fjb> Ok, I'm tired.
23:55:00  <TrueBrain> it does explain the poor quality of Apple application I guess :D
23:55:08  <fjb> It does.
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23:56:01  <fjb> Did you try to read some Objective C code? It looks very strange. Like a crossover between C, Lisp and some other stuff.
23:56:14  <TrueBrain> even worse, I have to write it
23:56:19  <TrueBrain> and I can't stop laughing when doing it
23:56:24  <fjb> Oh, poor TrueBrain.
23:56:30  <TrueBrain> who in its right mind thought NSLog would be a good function name?
23:56:32  <TrueBrain> I mean .. really?!
23:56:43  <TrueBrain> who is this NS, and why do I care about him?
23:56:57  <fjb> Sounds strange.
23:57:12  <TrueBrain> (NSLog == printf, for all love and intend)
23:57:16  <fjb> Android has at least sane API names.
23:57:32  <TrueBrain> iOS has 2 letters for every API
23:57:38  <TrueBrain> "so you can see which API you use"
23:57:41  <TrueBrain> how about namespaces bitch?
23:58:05  <fjb> That sounds like a good practice from ancient C days.
23:58:18  <TrueBrain> ancient being the keyword here
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23:58:38  <fjb> But Jobs liked it.
23:58:40  <TrueBrain> often all I can think is: fuck my life :P
23:58:50  <TrueBrain> then I realise I have to port the same code to Java
23:58:55  <TrueBrain> keeps me awake at night
23:58:57  <TrueBrain> the monster
23:58:58  <TrueBrain> hunt
23:59:23  <fjb> Java is nicer than Objective C at least.
23:59:31  <TrueBrain> very true
23:59:42  <TrueBrain> well, in my opinion anyway :D
23:59:45  <fjb> But not nice enough to be fun.

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