Log for #openttd on 1st October 2012:
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00:13:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure i have seen code that prevents "conflicting" industries nearby
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01:27:44  <hmmwhatsthisdo> Is it possible to link airports?
01:27:58  <hmmwhatsthisdo> (e.g. through control-click or putting them next to one another)
01:40:20  <Supercheese> nope
01:45:53  <hmmwhatsthisdo> damn.
01:46:09  <Supercheese> yeah, would be nice, but not possible; same goes for docks
01:46:50  <hmmwhatsthisdo> yea... I currently have an intercontinental airport with planes flying in a holding pattern for... "weeks"
01:47:06  <Supercheese> International airport is technically more efficient than Intercontinental
01:47:08  <Supercheese> as strange as it sounds
01:47:14  <hmmwhatsthisdo> really?
01:47:18  <Supercheese> yeah
01:47:21  <Supercheese> lemme dig up the proof
01:47:24  <planetmaker> I see the need for ports - for eye candy reasons. But for airports...? SC is right, yes
01:47:46  <Supercheese> Here:
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02:41:59  <hmmwhatsthisdo> I'm finding a lot of stuff about modular airports, but all of it seems to be 3-4 years old. Did something happen with OpenTTD that stopped development of it all?
02:42:11  <Supercheese> I think development is just paused
02:42:46  <hmmwhatsthisdo> mmkay
02:42:56  <hmmwhatsthisdo> Is anyone even bothering with development anymore?
02:43:04  <Supercheese> with that specifically?
02:43:05  <Supercheese> I dunno
02:43:07  <Supercheese> in general? of course
02:46:09  <planetmaker> hmmwhatsthisdo, modular airports is a tricky issue with implications in many places. Especially the specs need to become sane...
02:46:35  <planetmaker> and sane specs for airports need still quite a bit of behind-the-scenes changes.
02:46:46  <planetmaker> It's not forgotten, not reject, but not yet done either
02:47:00  <hmmwhatsthisdo> yea, I read something about the system that would be needed to interact with the state machine (I'm guessing that's analogous to the Air Traffic Controller) would be diabolically hard
02:47:08  <planetmaker> and for what it's worth: it's a wanted feature
02:47:41  <planetmaker> well... kinda. airports have fixed movement patterns for how vehicles can move in them
02:48:13  <hmmwhatsthisdo> and the state machine makes those?
02:48:20  <planetmaker> or call it rules instead of pattern, if you want
02:48:27  <planetmaker> that *is* the state machine
02:48:30  <hmmwhatsthisdo> oh.
02:49:20  <planetmaker> but the problem with that kind of airports is even more fundamental... they need access to more scopes than currently are available; they can't interact with that many related objects as they need to
02:50:19  <hmmwhatsthisdo> so, in essence it would require way more work than it might seem?
02:50:51  <planetmaker> in essence: yes. Not would. But does. At least for a nice solution ;-)
02:52:29  <planetmaker> But still... we *will* get this nice solution. But not this year
02:53:11  <planetmaker> is kinda the pre-condition I talk(ed) about
02:53:40  <planetmaker> we're still missing colums 3,4 and 5 ;-)
02:54:18  <planetmaker> (yes, very technical, I know)
02:54:19  <hmmwhatsthisdo> ah
02:54:30  <hmmwhatsthisdo> yea... it's a little bit difficult to read
02:55:41  <planetmaker> it's intended as memo to devs of what makes sense / is wanted and needed...
02:57:31  <planetmaker> in any case... airports likely won't get modular by this. They just will be possibly defined via NewGRF. Thus many different ones become possible
02:57:45  <hmmwhatsthisdo> I wonder...
02:58:05  <planetmaker> in the same way like you now can define industries, houses or vehicles via newgrf
02:58:10  <hmmwhatsthisdo> Wasn't there a feature in RCT2 that allowed people to prefab rollercoasters then use them in-game?
02:58:43  <planetmaker> I don't know. Nor does it really matter ;-)
02:59:49  <hmmwhatsthisdo> Well, maybe instead of having truly modular airports that are built on-the-fly, there should be a method to prefab airports, have all the complicated stuff done beforehand, then save and use them in-game
03:00:17  <Supercheese> that's essentially what NewAirport grfs would do
03:00:31  <planetmaker> The method to come is to allow add-on authors define their own airports
03:00:47  <planetmaker> ingame by the players... not so likely
03:01:02  <Supercheese> ^ that
03:02:34  <hmmwhatsthisdo> mmk
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03:53:06  <supermop> hi
03:53:40  <Supercheese> salve
03:53:56  <supermop> how's it going?
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04:43:03  <Supercheese> was working a thermodynamics problem
04:43:31  <Supercheese> involving geothermal power plants; flash evaporator pressures vs. turbine power outputs
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04:56:02  <supermop> sounds like a good use of time
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04:56:20  <Supercheese> took a while
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06:39:57  <Supercheese> good night
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08:32:10  <|Terkhen|> good morning
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09:43:31  <Eddi|zuHause> is there a way to insert an action 0C in nml?
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10:15:56  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, that option doesn't exist. Also it will be very hard to do as you cannot define a place really
10:16:31  <planetmaker> nml ordering need not refer to nml ordering except the things which absolutely need be in order
10:16:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt it would really be hard
10:17:14  <planetmaker> not hard to add. but difficult to decide what it should refer to.
10:17:48  <planetmaker> i.e. it will be hard to do it in a way that produces the results which you might expect
10:18:01  <planetmaker> (and why do you need action 0x0C?
10:18:19  <Eddi|zuHause> well let's call it "debugging symbols"
10:18:53  <planetmaker> care to elaborate?
10:19:58  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, the idea was that i take each vehicle gnml and individually compile it to nfo/grf, then throw out everything to a "this is where headers end" marker, and combine that to a complete grf
10:20:29  <Eddi|zuHause> to avoid shoving the entire nml into nmlc, which it kinda barfs on
10:21:28  <planetmaker> I see. Shouldn't it rather be fixed to not barf on the entire NML? what happens if you comment in (or out) single vehicle files?
10:21:42  <planetmaker> (I know you want to use it to fix the entire thing)
10:22:18  <Eddi|zuHause> it's the sheer size of the parse tree that currently makes it close to unhandle-able
10:22:47  <Eddi|zuHause> python is not very memory efficient
10:23:43  <Eddi|zuHause> you could probably reduce it by factor 100-ish by implementing it in C++
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10:26:23  <planetmaker> maybe, yes
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11:15:55  <planetmaker> is an awkward familiar story
11:26:31  <Pinkbeast> Dear Railworks / Train Simulator 2013, why why is getting the HUD right for steam engines so hard?
11:29:29  <planetmaker> topic?
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11:35:20  <dada_> anyone know if there's a way to remove/delete companies from a single player savegame? console tells me that those commands are only available in a network game.
11:35:49  <Pinkbeast> Would it suffice to take them over with the cheat commands and bankrupt them?
11:35:57  <dada_> I guess I could do that.
11:36:52  <dada_> hm, this one has 200 million euros
11:36:56  <dada_> this will take a while
11:37:13  <Pinkbeast> Nope; raise and lower land in and out of the sea. You can chew up any amount of cash quickly.
11:37:45  <Pinkbeast> ... ISTR, no promises, that demolishing sea into land which then floods is also an efficient way to waste money.
11:38:09  <dada_> ah yeah that works too
11:38:52  <dada_> if you have money to burn that might be a nice way to bully your opponent's ships
11:40:36  <Pinkbeast> If you're going in for thank kind of cheese, stompifying his RVs is a lot less hassle. :-)
11:43:32  <planetmaker> good that there are even AI which detect that kind of sabotage ;-)
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11:47:04  <dada_> ok, maximum loan, no income, no funds. guess it's just a matter of waiting now.
11:53:20  <Eddi|zuHause> dada_: there are two ways. if it's an AI company, use the stop_ai command, if it's a human company, save the game, start a multiplayer game (without anyone else joining) and use the multiplayer-only commands.
11:53:57  <dada_> I just got asked if I want to take over the company, so I guess I'm making progress (said no)
11:54:12  <dada_> Eddi|zuHause: thanks, I've gone the hackish way of bankrupting them instead
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15:08:44  <andythenorth> autorefit on vehicles in a grf: "essential" or "nice to have" or "meh" ?
15:09:05  <Pinkbeast> Nice to have.
15:09:32  <Pinkbeast> ... in practice I find autorefit tricky to make use of.
15:09:32  <supermop> same
15:09:49  <Pinkbeast> I might even incline to meh
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15:11:29  <LordAro> hey all
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15:16:09  * andythenorth might do a poll
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15:19:13  <andythenorth> take a poll here:
15:19:17  <andythenorth> click now!
15:19:20  <andythenorth> your views count!
15:19:28  <andythenorth> people died for your right to vote!
15:22:46  <supermop> it's really hard to motivate myself to draw anything again
15:23:26  <supermop> yet when i try to play ottd  about twice a year, i am too unsatisfied that the things i want in my game are not there
15:23:30  <andythenorth> draw some blooody ships :P
15:23:43  <supermop> so i think i am drifting away from the game as a result
15:23:47  <andythenorth> happens
15:23:52  <andythenorth> no game lasts for ever
15:24:07  <andythenorth> played any GS games?
15:24:11  <supermop> nope
15:24:32  <andythenorth> total saviour of the game for me
15:24:49  <andythenorth> otherwise I'd have had to do the big flouncy "I'm leaving" thing
15:25:54  <supermop> saw a building in chinatown last night that would both be easy to draw and look good in game
15:26:25  <supermop> and match the general style of other buildings I have drawn
15:26:38  <andythenorth> with challenge GS all the 'game needs xyz' stuff disappears :)
15:26:49  <andythenorth> you're too focussed on meeting the goal to look at graphics ;)
15:27:04  <supermop> i like looking at little buildings
15:27:15  <supermop> i see the game as a metabolism simulator
15:27:30  <andythenorth> try a new way to make buildings:
15:27:31  <Pinkbeast> I realised I'd be vexed if it broke HEQS tram refitting, so I think there's no denying I'm "meh" about it.
15:27:56  <supermop> oh man andy
15:28:15  <supermop> about a year ago i was so pumped at planning out how to build the capsule tower in legos
15:28:27  <supermop> then i saw someone had already done it
15:28:37  <andythenorth>
15:29:30  <supermop> then whenever i start thinking about making toy buildings
15:29:46  <supermop> i remember i am an architect in a career rut
15:29:58  <supermop> and i should do something about that instead
15:30:59  <supermop> or i get side tracked by other hobbies like food coffee or records
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15:31:27  <andythenorth> I wanted to be an architect
15:31:30  <andythenorth> then I didn't :)
15:31:35  <supermop> good choice
15:31:41  <supermop> most of us are out of work
15:31:56  <supermop> and at least in the us woefully underpaid
15:32:05  <andythenorth> I got really into Calatrava's stuff for a bit
15:32:17  <supermop> he's actually a civil engineer
15:32:44  <andythenorth> I know
15:32:48  <andythenorth> well he did both degrees
15:32:52  <andythenorth> I was studying C Eng.
15:32:57  <andythenorth> but that sucked so I stopped
15:33:14  <andythenorth> I was going to do C. Eng then architecture degrees
15:33:26  <andythenorth> but that would have been 8 years + 4 years to get chartered
15:33:34  <andythenorth> education is over-rated :p
15:34:18  <supermop> ha
15:34:30  <supermop> i'd stay in school forever if i could afford it
15:34:57  <supermop> speaking of getting sidetracked,
15:34:58  <Jake> University education certainly is, though, at least when it comes to finding a job.
15:35:03  <supermop> are you good with plants?
15:35:27  <supermop> i need to repot my jade
15:35:49  <supermop> living in chinatown there is no dirt on the ground so i have to go buy some
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15:37:10  <Jake> I'm sure the Parks & Rec department wouldn't mind you borrowing some if you'd rather not find a garden centre.
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15:51:33  <FLHerne> Heightmaps don't do rivers, do they?
15:51:36  * FLHerne forgot
15:55:26  <Elukka> i wish they did
15:55:34  <Elukka> that'd make them a million times easier to do
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15:58:58  <planetmaker> heya
15:59:12  <planetmaker> andythenorth, don't you think you should ask your autorefit question in general openttd?
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16:11:05  <andythenorth> planetmaker: maybe
16:11:10  <andythenorth> I thought it was newgrf specific
16:11:14  <andythenorth> feel free to move it
16:11:36  <planetmaker> there are arguments for either forum. Your choice. I just wonder
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16:20:42  <andythenorth> 'meh' is winning for autorefit so far
16:20:45  <andythenorth> small sample size though
16:21:07  <planetmaker> that's why I was asking: exposure is small in that subforum compared to general
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16:21:51  <andythenorth> planetmaker: move the post ;)
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16:23:40  <andythenorth> I do wonder if autorefit is over-rated for gameplay
16:23:40  <planetmaker> andythenorth, done.
16:23:46  <andythenorth> thanks
16:23:52  <andythenorth> especially, we have no partial load orders etc
16:24:07  <andythenorth> and the cases where there is a useful backload may be limited
16:24:18  <planetmaker> andythenorth, autorefit available will load different cargos concurrently
16:24:20  <andythenorth> I have only used it a bit with UKRS 2
16:24:26  <andythenorth> ah yes
16:24:30  <planetmaker> which is helpful in some stations
16:24:40  <andythenorth> autorefit + YACD would have been significantly awesome
16:24:49  <planetmaker> very much so
16:24:53  <andythenorth> different cargos concurrently is no use for ships or RVs or planes though ;)
16:25:01  <planetmaker> that's true
16:25:19  <planetmaker> but still, like "load available" will take the most common cargo which can be good
16:25:26  <planetmaker> and ensure good rating for all of them
16:26:26  <andythenorth> would be more useful if ships had n holds :)
16:26:43  <planetmaker> would make sense from that perspective, yes.
16:27:39  <frosch123> planetmaker: autorefit is far more suitable for trains
16:27:53  <frosch123> not so much for other vehicles
16:28:08  <planetmaker> yes, of course
16:28:13  <frosch123> ah, andy said that already
16:28:21  <planetmaker> And I fully agree
16:28:53  <frosch123> though it should also work for small rv
16:29:03  <frosch123> i.e. when you have many of them
16:29:12  <planetmaker> well, it does, doesn't it?
16:29:35  <frosch123> in the only usecase i had for autorefit, i played nuts, and was not allowed to :p
16:29:52  <andythenorth> it's odd though, to have it for small rv, but not large :P
16:30:11  <frosch123> well, large rv are specialised
16:30:15  <frosch123> sell it as game balance
16:30:20  <frosch123> either big cheap stuff
16:30:22  <frosch123> or small universal
16:30:48  <frosch123> might give small vehicles some use :)
16:32:56  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Autorefit is awesome :D
16:33:17  <FLHerne> Now I can transport every mineral cargo in FIRS on one set of trains :p
16:37:03  <Nat_aS> I don't care as much about auto-refit, as the ability to mix cargos
16:37:09  <Nat_aS> esp on cargo planes to remote islands with farms
16:37:23  <Nat_aS> two planes won't make a profit, but there are two types of cargo
16:37:38  <Nat_aS> one plane would make a profit if it could hold both cargos
16:37:48  <Nat_aS> and then transport a mixture of food and goods back to the island.
16:38:14  <FLHerne> Nat_aS: Multi-cargo things without autorefit don't work properly :P
16:38:39  <Nat_aS> lol
16:38:46  <Nat_aS> well that's why I want auto-refit then
16:39:09  <Nat_aS> because airplanes have really tight cargo margins, that are suposed to be made up for by there superior flexibility
16:39:35  <Nat_aS> but they are less flexible because a train can cary more than one cargo, and a plane can't
16:39:45  <FLHerne> Well, they work but they never balance properly. So all you get is full load of one thing, and lots of space on the other side :-(
16:39:51  <FLHerne> 'planes can carry mail :P
16:40:09  <Nat_aS> adding empty cars to a train does little to reduce efficancy
16:40:28  <Nat_aS> so if you have long stations you can make a train that's half full both ways, but carrying two kinds of cargo
16:40:38  <Nat_aS> it's less of a problem than airplanes.
16:40:48  <FLHerne> Same happens for planes though. And that *is* inefficient :P
16:41:16  <FLHerne> Why would you make one train for two cargos? Why not just two separate ones of half the length?
16:41:21  <Nat_aS> less inefficant than having to buy a second airplane just to carry grain AND livestock
16:41:35  <Nat_aS> I really like the C130 in AV8 though
16:41:44  <Nat_aS> it's perfect for diamonds
16:42:50  * FLHerne hasn't tried airfreight much :P
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16:52:07  <NGC3982> I so want to build a NewGRF with warpdrive
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17:05:17  * FLHerne complains about error priority
17:06:41  <FLHerne> If I try to play a scenario containing no towns, it complains about GUI sprites (nightly) instead of mentioning the actually-serious issue
17:11:59  <planetmaker> FLHerne, as the missing gui sprites will be an issue in every game (update your opengfx)
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17:13:00  <FLHerne> planetmaker: I have :P
17:13:20  <FLHerne> But a few missing gui sprites don't stop me playing :P
17:14:13  <planetmaker> FLHerne, the current bananas release of opengfx gives you that?!
17:15:14  <FLHerne> It does now :-)
17:15:20  <FLHerne> Very convenient :P
17:15:44  <FLHerne> Also, how come rivers can be overbuilt with canals, but not the opposite?
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17:26:14  <frosch123> ah!
17:26:21  <frosch123> open the bottle before trying to drink
17:26:25  <frosch123> that's how it works
17:31:00  <andythenorth> orly?
17:31:07  <andythenorth> can you start a newsletter about that?
17:31:52  <andythenorth> so I await poll results
17:32:00  <andythenorth> but I would bet that autorefit is 'meh'
17:32:10  <frosch123> you mean something like a list of nak codes your mouth can send, and what they mean?
17:32:10  <andythenorth> and that will make BANDIT / HEQS so much easier
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17:34:36  <andythenorth> child fell over in the bath :P
17:34:44  <andythenorth> every time I mix irc and bathtime, something bad happens :P
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17:38:30  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Get a waterproof tablet :P
17:40:19  <andythenorth> bad for the child
17:40:24  <andythenorth> laptop, don't care about :P
17:40:52  <FLHerne> Keyboards are hard to make waterproof ;-)
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17:42:14  <andythenorth> so....rv-wagons
17:42:19  <andythenorth> would that improve gameplay?
17:42:29  <andythenorth> or is it lots more tedious clicking?
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17:44:09  <frosch123> so...tile based airports
17:44:14  <frosch123> would that improve gameplay?
17:44:19  <frosch123> or is it lots more tedious clicking?
17:45:13  <andythenorth> yes
17:45:14  <FLHerne> andythenorth: The former yes, dunno about the latter
17:45:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24563 /trunk/src/lang (lithuanian.txt welsh.txt) (2012-10-01 17:45:14 UTC)
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 8 changes by RunisLabs
17:45:25  <DorpsGek> welsh - 13 changes by kazzie
17:45:41  <andythenorth> frosch123: my or was OR not XOR
17:45:41  <FLHerne> I'd prefer the current airport system, but with newgrf-definable ones :P
17:46:15  <FLHerne> RV-wagons would be very good for trams :-)
17:46:31  <andythenorth> meh
17:46:36  <andythenorth> trams should just be a railtype
17:46:56  * andythenorth thinks everything should be a railtype
17:47:00  <andythenorth> it's a train game anyway
17:47:14  <andythenorth> if we remove the other types, that will improve performance right?
17:47:25  <andythenorth> and developers can spend time on codes for trains
17:47:28  <andythenorth> more effficient :P
17:47:43  <frosch123> i thought everything was a cargo :p
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17:48:50  <andythenorth> I thought you were working on that in a branch?
17:50:01  <andythenorth> using tile based airports, can I create 'roads' ?
17:50:11  <andythenorth> and a 'truck' that flies at 0 feet
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18:00:19  <frosch123> yes
18:00:53  <frosch123> but they cannot have trailers
18:01:05  <andythenorth> can't I abuse the shadow?
18:01:34  <frosch123> new rotors :p
18:01:48  *** Mucht [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:03:06  <andythenorth> NewRotors
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18:16:14  <frosch123> hmm, someone knows whether the inflation is reset when starting a scenario?
18:24:12  <frosch123> @calc 2**(63-32)
18:24:12  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 2147483648
18:27:53  <frosch123> omg...
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18:53:57  <BadBrett> i'm beginning to hate FIRS... everytime i come up with a new idea, it's already there :p
18:54:18  <andythenorth> [shrug]
18:54:18  <andythenorth> :P
18:54:42  <BadBrett> at least i have 2-3 exclusive industries :p
18:54:59  <andythenorth> FIRS is just a copy of Railroad Tycoon
18:55:54  <BadBrett> well... that explains a lot... because i use RRT as inspiration as well
18:55:58  <BadBrett> :)
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19:12:17  <andythenorth> so what does autorefit do with subtypes?
19:12:26  <andythenorth> preserve current?
19:12:35  <andythenorth> pick first?
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19:18:48  <andythenorth> I guess the code knows :P
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19:21:35  <FLHerne> andythenorth: New crazy idea? :P
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19:22:01  <FLHerne> Just got back, the extractor fan was shorting everything out :-(
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19:29:38  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24564 /trunk/src (economy.cpp saveload/afterload.cpp) (2012-10-01 19:29:31 UTC)
19:29:39  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5312] (r17433): Limiting the inflation did not quite work.
19:32:01  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24565 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2012-10-01 19:31:55 UTC)
19:32:02  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Stop both price and payment inflation if either of them has reached MAX_INFLATION.
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19:33:35  <Kitty> I wish there was a way to merge two stations...
19:33:52  <frosch123> upon construction or later?
19:35:55  <Kitty> later
19:38:14  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24566 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2012-10-01 19:38:08 UTC)
19:38:15  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Reorder some code more intuitively. (Juanjo)
19:39:03  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24567 trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp (2012-10-01 19:38:57 UTC)
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19:39:04  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5261]: Non-train vehicle lists were not resorted when vehicles were renamed. (Juanjo)
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19:40:17  <andythenorth> where is autorefit in src?
19:40:32  <supermop> bought dirt
19:40:37  <frosch123> economy.cpp
19:40:45  <frosch123> iirc
19:42:25  <andythenorth> some stuff there yes
19:43:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24568 trunk/src/group_cmd.cpp (2012-10-01 19:43:10 UTC)
19:43:18  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: No need to resort the group GUI when toggling the autoreplace protection. (Juanjo)
19:43:27  <andythenorth> if I read it correctly, autorefit does try to use the subtype specified in orders
19:46:36  <frosch123> ignore that
19:46:39  <andythenorth> could the station refit menu gain a new cb?
19:46:44  <frosch123> subtype in orders makes no sense
19:46:53  <andythenorth> because...?
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19:47:04  <frosch123> is broken, and probably needs removal for fs#3764
19:47:18  <frosch123> it only stores the numerical subtype index
19:47:28  <frosch123> which can mean totally different things for different vehicles
19:48:22  <frosch123> so it kind of only works for non-trains and when all vehicles are of the same engine
19:49:06  <frosch123> for fs#3764 i would anticipate that the subtype is dropped from the refit-order gui
19:49:19  <frosch123> and every vehicle tries to refit to the cargo while keeping the subtype
19:50:28  <frosch123> really setting a subtype in the refit order gui, would need some method to store the text it addresses in some way
19:50:32  <frosch123> i have not found such a way :p
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19:50:51  <andythenorth> how about this idea?
19:50:55  <andythenorth> "subtypes are broken" :P
19:52:05  <andythenorth> therefore rm them
19:52:34  * andythenorth is probably being too extreme, again
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19:56:25  <andythenorth> we haven't pissed off enough newgrf authors recently
19:56:35  <andythenorth> they have it too easy, what with this new fangled nml thing and such
19:56:44  <frosch123> did you manage to get banned from simuscape? :p
19:56:49  <andythenorth> didn't try
19:56:58  <andythenorth> I am happy with simuscape
19:57:05  <andythenorth> :)
19:57:12  <frosch123> ah, i thought you tried to piss them off, and was banned
19:57:14  <andythenorth> they're happy, we're happy, everyone's happy
19:57:17  <andythenorth> no no
19:57:32  <andythenorth> I thought better about being an idiot :P
19:57:49  <andythenorth> and there were apologies all round too
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20:08:23  <andythenorth> frosch123: we should Overton Window the newgrf spec ;)
20:08:24  <andythenorth>
20:09:08  <andythenorth> we propose a totally unacceptable change to newgrf spec
20:09:22  <andythenorth> newgrf authors then declare sky is falling
20:09:33  <andythenorth> then we announce we only change a small section of spec
20:09:44  <andythenorth> newgrf authors have small celebration party
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20:11:30  <frosch123> aren't we more used to the door-in-the-face technique? which is linked from that page :p
20:13:17  <andythenorth> I have tried door-in-the-face on ottd devs, doesn't bloody work :P
20:13:22  <andythenorth> door goes in my face :)
20:14:00  <frosch123> yeah, you have to know the articulations
20:15:17  <andythenorth> he
20:15:47  <Knogle> hm, whats 'industry_platform = 1' in openttd.cfg, its not mention in the wiki
20:16:05  <frosch123> i would guess it is about terraforming
20:16:17  <frosch123> when a industry is build it sometimes tries to level some land
20:16:32  <Knogle> makes sense
20:16:43  <frosch123> maybe it levels industry_platform moretiles to make it look less weird
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20:23:23  <supermop> haha "foot in the face" method
20:23:45  * andythenorth uses "foot in mouth" method too often :P
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20:24:12  <frosch123> i try to get food in mouth every day
20:24:33  <andythenorth> better than feet
20:25:10  <frosch123> chicken feet?
20:25:37  <frosch123> likely more legs than feet, not sure about the anatomy
20:26:43  <supermop> i can get either here in chinatown
20:26:54  <dada_> you can eat the chicken's feet too
20:26:56  <dada_> never had it though
20:27:46  <andythenorth> frosch123: I dare you to remove subtypes ;)
20:27:56  <andythenorth> see what happens
20:28:25  <andythenorth> it's probably wise that andythenorth has no openttd commit rights
20:28:53  <frosch123> yeah, it already scared me that you got voice :p
20:29:29  <frosch123> i expected you would be able to flood #openttd, dev and devzone :)
20:30:55  <frosch123> i don't get the foot-in-face method
20:32:18  <frosch123> they say foot in face causes less harm than door in face though :)
20:32:55  <andythenorth> I don't want to test that :P
20:33:47  <frosch123> are there any rumours about the world ending when the 113th element spawns?
20:34:05  <andythenorth> probably
20:34:16  <andythenorth> there are rumours about world ending for so many things :P
20:34:24  <andythenorth> individually each one makes me quite worried
20:34:37  <andythenorth> taken together, worrying seems quite silly :P
20:34:51  <supermop> world ends when nml supports bridges
20:35:10  <frosch123> andythenorth: it would have the advantage that we no longer have to care about subtypes
20:35:24  <andythenorth> or autorefit
20:35:36  <andythenorth> and all tickets would be closed by default
20:35:44  <andythenorth> or at least "won't fix"
20:43:56  * andythenorth bed
20:43:57  <andythenorth> bye
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20:45:20  <Terkhen> good night
20:58:52  <frosch123> night
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