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00:02:48 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-84-74.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:41:20 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 00:43:30 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 00:44:29 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-62-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:44:32 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 00:47:39 *** a_p3rson [4b64e053@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 00:47:50 <a_p3rson> can someone help me with FIRS? 00:50:14 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-25-4.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:53:48 *** Hirogen2 [~mnxq@exit.inai.de] has quit [Quit: *] 01:01:02 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@f72217.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:21:41 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:47 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 01:35:20 *** a_p3rson [4b64e053@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 01:53:14 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c1a6:1f34:4311:9c2a] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:16:51 *** hmmwhatsthisdo [~hmmwhatst@h75-100-224-83.lactwa.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6754C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD557D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:10:47 *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-193-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 05:15:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 05:15:43 <andythenorth> moin 05:15:52 <Supercheese> salve 05:19:57 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:13 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 06:00:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 06:02:30 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 06:03:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:10:06 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:18:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 06:37:34 <planetmaker> moin 06:57:06 <Terkhen> good morning 07:03:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D860.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:54 <planetmaker> hello Terkhen 07:09:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@31.125.224.40] has joined #openttd 07:10:13 <NGC3982> Morning. 07:17:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@31.125.224.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:23:12 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 07:30:07 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@f72217.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:32:35 <Knogle> morning 07:32:54 <Supercheese> Salve et tibi 07:41:30 <dihedral> hello 07:50:27 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@f72217.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:50:33 <Supercheese> Valete omnes, nunc est dormiendum 07:50:40 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.1/20121010144125]] 07:54:34 <NGC3982> Okidoki 07:57:38 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@f72217.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:09:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:38:16 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:43:48 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.166] has joined #openttd 08:47:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:50:05 <Yexo> good morning 08:54:21 <peter1138> morning good 08:55:00 <Ammler> morning good, becomming worse 08:55:09 <peter1138> *becoming 08:57:44 <NGC3982> Ammler: How is that? 08:59:11 <Ammler> clouds arise 09:00:40 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:02:51 *** argoneus [~argoneus@smtp.gvp.cz] has joined #openttd 09:08:04 <planetmaker> clouds arise. winter is coming... http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1794/ 09:12:04 <SpComb> nuclear winter 09:12:08 <peter1138> morning has broken, like my first pee cee 09:19:33 <peter1138> load avg 0.07 09:19:38 <peter1138> wonder if it'll break 09:20:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:28:58 <peter1138> HEAAAAAAAAAART BEAT 09:29:04 <peter1138> do de do de do de doooooooooo 09:29:31 <peter1138> actually no E in hart 09:29:48 <NGC3982> Yes, there is. 09:29:57 <peter1138> nope 09:30:04 <peter1138> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oYt7mZrzWQ 09:30:31 <NGC3982> Ah, Tony Hart. 09:30:37 <NGC3982> How punnish. 09:30:49 <peter1138> love the dated cars at 0:34 09:31:21 <NGC3982> Hehe 09:32:11 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:35:34 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:37:28 <Ammler> becoming better again \o/ 09:41:31 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.166] has joined #openttd 09:43:04 <Eddi|zuHause> there's an e in heart, but no e in hart. very logical. 09:47:49 <peter1138> vry lgcl 09:48:16 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on if you view y as consonant or vowel 09:48:37 <peter1138> point. it's a vowel there. 09:48:41 <peter1138> vr lgcl 09:49:11 *** argoneus [~argoneus@smtp.gvp.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:26 *** argoneus [~argoneus@smtp.gvp.cz] has joined #openttd 10:01:06 *** argoneus [~argoneus@smtp.gvp.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:02:37 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 10:04:20 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1906 10:04:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:08:18 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:10:51 *** Guest1906 [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:29:16 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:34:08 *** efess [~Efess@ool-18bfeb53.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:45:03 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.166] has joined #openttd 10:48:00 <peter1138> hmm, when did play.com turn into a seller-finding site? 10:52:53 <__ln__> within a year or so, i guess. 10:54:19 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1910 10:54:19 *** andythenorth__ [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:54:19 *** andythenorth__ is now known as andythenorth 10:58:21 *** Guest1910 [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:02:04 <__ln__> also their delivery times appear to be many days slower than amazon's 11:30:10 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:32:12 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 11:36:12 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:26 *** argoneus [~argoneus@smtp.gvp.cz] has joined #openttd 11:52:28 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/59rw6.jpg 12:02:41 *** argoneus [~argoneus@smtp.gvp.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:02:49 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 12:04:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:16:26 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:20:34 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d4a3:823c:869e:6145] has joined #openttd 12:20:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:24:47 <V453000> :DD nice one 12:25:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:26:17 *** efess [~Efess@ool-18bfeb53.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #openttd 12:35:35 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.166] has joined #openttd 12:41:40 <andythenorth> so here's a thing that was passed on to me from Plone conference (I didn't go, all our devs did though)... 12:41:55 <andythenorth> ...Plone projects were usually hosted via svn, trac etc 12:42:16 <andythenorth> ...and there were community contributions but a relatively small number of active contributors 12:42:43 <andythenorth> projects that move to github apparently get a substantial increase in community contributions 12:42:53 <andythenorth> [no stats published] 12:43:10 *** Fremen [~muhweb@178-118-106-89.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Qupada] 12:43:34 <andythenorth> http://collective.github.com 12:47:35 * Terkhen thinks that OpenTTD version for network games does not work with git/hg 12:49:43 <andythenorth> hmm 12:49:48 <andythenorth> probably resolvable :P 12:49:53 <andythenorth> I'm not proposing a move :) 12:50:06 <andythenorth> just passing on info from another big open source project ;) 12:52:00 <Terkhen> if it is a problem it should be solvable indeed 12:53:59 <Terkhen> as long as I can keep using hg for development, I don't mind, but maybe a local repo is simpler for integration with the cf 13:04:59 <andythenorth> user bits 13:05:35 <andythenorth> there should be (action-14 style) a way to provide depot gui options to change user bit values 13:05:52 <andythenorth> and all vehicle types should have user bits 13:06:00 <andythenorth> and this should *never* be allowed to be changed at stations 13:08:35 * NGC3982 dances. 13:09:42 <andythenorth> are we human? 13:11:07 <andythenorth> or are we dancer? 13:11:33 <Markk> or are we cancer? 13:11:53 <NGC3982> That song is lame. 13:12:06 * NGC3982 is thinking more ..Men without hats. 13:12:57 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:16:03 <andythenorth> meh 13:16:07 <andythenorth> no alberth :) 13:19:31 <NGC3982> We can load if we want to, we can drop our load behind 13:19:32 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:40 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 13:20:12 * Pinkbeast heard a Men Without Hats song that wasn't the Safety Dance at Dead and Buried on Friday, which you basically never do outside Canadia. 13:20:23 <NGC3982> 'Cause if it wont accept and if they don't accept, well: They're no station of mine. 13:35:48 <Sacro> http://imgur.com/a/aUoXC 13:37:38 <Sacro> totally openttd related! 13:38:55 <andythenorth> who made it? :) 13:39:24 <Sacro> Found it on Reddit 13:39:30 <Sacro> http://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/z9m9b/can_we_put_this_excellent_infographic_in_the/ 13:39:38 <Markk> Ctrl butan <3 13:39:41 <blathijs> Sacro: It's awesome 13:39:49 <Sacro> blathijs: i know :D 13:39:56 <Sacro> It explains presignals pretty well 13:40:06 <Sacro> haha 13:40:13 <Sacro> "So always shovel shit as far away as possible!!!" 13:41:47 <Sacro> blathijs: long time no see, how goes it? 13:41:59 <peter1138> It's about four years out of date. Unless you're stuck in the past on #openttdcoop, there's no reason anyone should be using presignals over path signals. 13:42:02 <peter1138> ^ LOL 13:42:11 <Markk> PBS <3 13:42:18 <blathijs> Sacro: Busy, but still checking this channel every now and then :-) 13:42:21 <peter1138> path signals +1 13:43:04 <andythenorth> rm the presignals :) 13:43:16 <Sacro> I miss HackeyKid's PBS 13:43:25 <Sacro> blathijs: same, life changes 13:45:31 <peter1138> eh 13:45:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D860.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:45:49 <peter1138> it wasn't as good as what we've got now 13:46:31 <andythenorth> be nice if current version changed the penalties on a per-vehicle basis when service was needed 13:46:36 <andythenorth> probably insane :P 13:46:44 <andythenorth> but trains often fail to go to depot 13:46:54 <peter1138> better than them crashing 13:46:57 <peter1138> which the old version did :p 13:47:20 <andythenorth> ho ho 13:48:26 <Belugas> hello 13:49:15 <blathijs> Sacro: #openttd is still one of the blessed channels that got a channel number below 20 (and is thus quickly accessible in irssi) ;-) 13:49:44 <Sacro> blathijs: still '3' for me :) 13:49:49 <planetmaker> is that general or just for you, blathijs ? 13:49:58 * planetmaker has no clue about irssi 13:51:11 <blathijs> planetmaker: Just for me 13:51:44 <blathijs> planetmaker: Channels 1 to 19 are accessible by pressing ESC + a number or a letter on the topmost row on the keyboard 13:52:21 <blathijs> so those can be easily accessed, while the other channels I have, I need to do /win <number> or ESC + arrow right repeatedly 13:52:32 <Sacro> can't use alt? 13:53:11 <blathijs> Yeah, but I got used to ESC at some point 13:53:27 <blathijs> Hmm, actually, alt doesn't seem to work in my xterm either 13:53:59 <si-m1> yea, i use esc aswell, it always works 13:54:08 <si-m1> and you don't have to hold it while pressing numbers 13:54:21 <si-m1> and i'm a vim user 13:54:30 <peter1138> yeah esc is easier 13:59:14 * andythenorth ponders class Tile(object) 14:00:47 <andythenorth> also 14:01:33 <andythenorth> for date-sensitive industry graphics, handle that withinin the spritelayout, or an earlier switch that chooses a different spritelayout 14:01:50 <NGC3982> blathijs: ESC? :e.. 14:02:07 <Belugas> Tile = Class(TObject) 14:02:08 <Belugas> ed; 14:02:11 <Belugas> end; 14:02:30 * Belugas shakes his keyboard... too much coffee drops, i guess 14:02:38 * peter1138 shakes Belugas 14:02:42 * andythenorth has been drinking decaf 14:02:56 <NGC3982> Decaf? 14:02:59 <NGC3982> Sweet jesus. 14:03:19 <NGC3982> I banned decaf across all my solar systems a long time ago 14:03:26 <NGC3982> Sacreligious crap. 14:03:41 <Sacro> ? 14:03:43 <Sacro> oh, not me 14:03:55 <NGC3982> Sacroligious ;) 14:04:01 <peter1138> hehe 14:04:02 <Belugas> sacré Sacro 14:04:06 <Sacro> Sacrolicious 14:04:41 <peter1138> sacro bleu 14:05:38 <andythenorth> who understands advanced spritelayouts? 14:06:15 <peter1138> what's that? 14:06:22 <planetmaker> a nifty tool 14:06:41 <planetmaker> sprite: groundtile(slope_to_sprite_offset(0, 0)); 14:06:54 <planetmaker> where you provide a spriteset of 19 groundtiles 14:07:10 <andythenorth> if it can select item n from spriteset according to animation frame, it can presumably also do it by date? 14:07:19 <planetmaker> basically you supply the offset via var 0x100 or so, peter1138 14:07:25 <planetmaker> offset into spriteset 14:07:33 <peter1138> The Islamic Human Rights Commission issues a statement: "The facts are clear, Muslims are extradited, non-Muslims are not. Muslims face detention without charge, non-Muslims do not. In light of government actions it is clear that Muslims are seen as second class citizens in Britain." 14:07:38 <planetmaker> andythenorth, any arbitrary condition 14:07:41 <peter1138> islamic... human rights... whut? 14:07:46 <planetmaker> s/condition/expression/ 14:07:59 <planetmaker> but it must not have return values > 255 iirc 14:08:10 <planetmaker> but maybe that info is wrong 14:08:12 <andythenorth> that's ok 14:08:15 <andythenorth> hmm 14:08:27 <andythenorth> can it also switch to a different spriteset? :) 14:08:33 * andythenorth could go back to the docs :P 14:08:47 <planetmaker> ho, one spriteset 14:09:39 <andythenorth> constructing a date-sensitive, animated spriteset would be intriguing 14:09:49 <andythenorth> might be better to switch spritelayout entirely for that 14:11:39 <planetmaker> sprite: spritesetname(construction_stage + (date<1950)*4 + animation_frame*8 14:11:43 <planetmaker> add ) 14:11:46 <planetmaker> and ; 14:12:03 <andythenorth> interleaved 14:12:09 <planetmaker> one way or another 14:12:12 <andythenorth> definitely one option 14:13:12 <andythenorth> not too magical 14:13:19 <andythenorth> point in favour of it 14:16:43 <planetmaker> it might be easier comprehensible, if you make one sprite per consturction stage and hide them conditionally 14:17:09 <planetmaker> or one per date condition or even both 14:17:31 <blathijs> NGC3982: ESC? :e.. <-- what does that mean? :-) 14:18:04 *** Fremen [~muhweb@178-118-106-89.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:18:18 *** Leto` [~muhweb@178-118-106-89.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:18:19 *** Leto` [~muhweb@178-118-106-89.access.telenet.be] has left #openttd [] 14:20:40 <andythenorth> I'll do some tests 14:20:56 <andythenorth> I kind of favour letting the spriteset handle animation only 14:21:05 <andythenorth> and do date stuff with a proper switch 14:23:19 <planetmaker> you may notice that grainmill did exactly that, at least some time ago ;-) 14:26:34 <andythenorth> yes 14:26:36 <NGC3982> blathijs: I never understood the reason for using ESC as a valid key in irssi, or even linux in general. 14:26:52 <peter1138> why should it be an invalid key? 14:27:20 <NGC3982> As a Windows user, not using it to simply close stuff feels odd and unusual. 14:27:29 <peter1138> you're "escaping" from your current mode 14:30:17 <blathijs> NGC3982: In a terminal, I think that ESC + a letter or number actually generates a key sequence similar to alt + a letter or number, really 14:30:41 <blathijs> NGC3982: So I guess it's more of an artifact of the terminal than an intended hotkey choice in irssi 14:30:50 <NGC3982> blathijs: Yes, it does. 14:30:50 <blathijs> Not sure, though 14:31:05 <NGC3982> Well sure, there are surely good reasons for using it 14:31:12 <NGC3982> But i don't feel that way, simply. 14:31:46 <NGC3982> For me, that would also imply using right- as left-click, space-bar as delete and "Print screen" to make my monitor explode. 14:33:19 <Pinkbeast> Or Ctrl-Alt-Del as "open the task manager" rather than "shut down immediately"? 14:35:05 <planetmaker> that kills my x-windows 14:35:29 <Pinkbeast> Errr not C-A-Backspace, planetmaker? 14:35:35 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: Harr. 14:35:52 <Pinkbeast> But I was pointing out to NGC that the Windows world has been known to change its mind too. 14:36:35 <planetmaker> maybe. Not trying that now, though ;-) 14:37:01 <Pinkbeast> Well, C-A-Backspace is the traditional X killer. 14:42:35 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:51:27 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 14:53:15 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:53:32 *** KouDy2 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 14:57:01 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:59:33 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:06:51 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-125-10-83.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:08:46 <supermop> hi! 15:09:40 <peter1138> SUPER! 15:10:42 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.166] has joined #openttd 15:12:09 <andythenorth> DISCOUNT! 15:14:11 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host217-43-26-41.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:14:55 <andythenorth> ho ho 15:14:59 <andythenorth> it's just an nml identifier 15:15:01 <NGC3982> }o/ 15:15:08 <andythenorth> so I could chain to a switch for madness 15:15:18 <andythenorth> it doesn't have to be a a spritelayout 15:15:24 <andythenorth> bet you didn't expect that 15:16:22 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 15:22:12 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd 15:27:26 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:31:48 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:00:47 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 16:06:48 * andythenorth invents some new date switch object thingy 16:06:49 <andythenorth> maybe 16:09:16 * Prof_Frink invents a better banana 16:09:27 <andythenorth> what are the features? 16:10:53 <Prof_Frink> Reinforced skin to avoid damage during transportation. 16:11:56 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.188] has joined #openttd 16:12:08 <andythenorth> armour banana 16:12:20 <andythenorth> hello DanMacK 16:12:35 <DanMacK> hey andy 16:12:47 <DanMacK> brb 16:12:48 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.188] has quit [] 16:12:59 <Prof_Frink> Goodbye DanMacK. 16:13:04 <andythenorth> he comes 16:13:05 <andythenorth> he goes 16:13:21 <Prof_Frink> DanMacK doesn't want an armournana. 16:13:56 <Prof_Frink> Hmm, this prototype has a distinct flaw. 16:14:14 <Prof_Frink> You need an angle grinder to open it. 16:14:23 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.166] has joined #openttd 16:14:55 <Prof_Frink> hello DanMacK 16:14:57 <DanMacK> There we go 16:15:27 <andythenorth> he's back :) 16:15:31 * DanMacK waves 16:16:57 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-176-043.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 16:18:52 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f667f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:25:19 <Elukka> http://cdnimg.visualizeus.com/thumbs/dc/2e/artificial_selection,banana,domestication,food,humans,natural-dc2e804177daa25fba41c856b53cadf2_h.jpg 16:25:32 <Elukka> a natural banana 16:26:18 * FLHerne is a bit alarmed by Android-related developments 16:26:19 <Elukka> an armornana 16:26:31 <Elukka> which android-related developments 16:26:37 <FLHerne> Elukka: You missed the 'u' :D 16:27:21 <FLHerne> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=62838&start=40#p1050004 16:28:43 <Elukka> the u? 16:29:31 <FLHerne> In armour :P 16:30:32 <Elukka> my english is a mix of american and british depending on what i feel like :p 16:30:46 <Elukka> same damn thing 16:31:29 * FLHerne is joking 16:32:23 <Elukka> http://i.imgur.com/ecZ6ml.jpg 16:33:27 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-176-043.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 16:33:33 <Rubidium> is that Austria? 16:35:13 <andythenorth> it looks incorrect 16:35:23 <andythenorth> the wires are in the wrong place 16:35:30 <andythenorth> how does it get power on the road? 16:36:05 <Rubidium> the panto is extraordinarily high 16:36:11 <Prof_Frink> Oh no it isn't! 16:36:23 <Elukka> messing around with railtypes? 16:36:42 <Elukka> looks austrian to me 16:45:31 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:55:46 <NGC3982> What's that runned over thingy. 17:03:08 <__ln__> *run, ran, run 17:03:55 <NGC3982> "What's that ran over thingy?"? 17:03:56 <__ln__> a new kind of StraÃenbahn? 17:04:21 <NGC3982> Wha'zat. 17:04:29 <__ln__> NGC3982: i'd say the third form is what you're after, so 'run'. 17:05:29 <NGC3982> That immediately made it more logical. 17:06:16 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:06:29 <Prof_Frink> NGC3982: Broken. 17:08:12 <NGC3982> Harr. 17:14:09 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:14:12 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:14:35 <Alberth> woep 17:15:14 <planetmaker> oddink, Alberth 17:17:27 <ZxBiohazardZx> heya 17:17:37 <ZxBiohazardZx> a few quicky questions 17:17:53 <ZxBiohazardZx> 1) where do we store max-loan and a company's current loan? 17:18:10 <ZxBiohazardZx> or get those values 17:18:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> c->??? 17:20:04 <Alberth> grep for 'loan' in the source code does not given any clue? 17:20:10 <planetmaker> what about GetLoan() or so? ^^ 17:20:25 <ZxBiohazardZx> im a utter naab 17:20:31 <planetmaker> I'd be surprised if anyone knew by heart 17:20:44 <ZxBiohazardZx> trying to get my http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=62970 into pseudo-ready code for a patch/test 17:21:09 <ZxBiohazardZx> changing c-> money >= 0 check to a more complex check for bankrupcy 17:21:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> cause if you lack money but can loan more from the bank then imo you shouldnt bankrupt over not looking down there or being unlucky on 3-4 dates a year 17:21:50 <Alberth> find bankrupcy news creation would be another entry 17:22:09 <ZxBiohazardZx> bankrupcy news creation is the case3 17:22:16 <ZxBiohazardZx> it checks company value 17:22:20 <ZxBiohazardZx> nothing with loan 17:22:48 <ZxBiohazardZx> my suggestions are up top in that linked topic 17:22:50 <Alberth> somewhere nearby the code that decides to create news is located 17:23:10 <Alberth> which gives good clues how things are stored/named 17:23:22 <ZxBiohazardZx> c->bankrupt_asked 17:23:30 <ZxBiohazardZx> but k 17:23:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> ill go check :P 17:24:05 <ZxBiohazardZx> not sure what model i prefer yet, i think 2 is better for multiple reasons (allows to customize it and make it easier/harder based on treshhold 17:24:10 <Alberth> we don't know the code by heart, we look it up when needed; 300,000 lines of code is bit too much to remember all 17:24:15 <Pinkbeast> Not to try and make you creep features, but why not implement a more sensible idea of credit facilities? 17:24:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> ? 17:24:39 <ZxBiohazardZx> and yeah Alberth good point 17:24:47 <Pinkbeast> Well, first, for a quick fix, #1 seems very sensible. 17:24:53 <ZxBiohazardZx> true 17:25:01 <ZxBiohazardZx> 1 is just a matter of checking if you can loan more 17:25:13 <Pinkbeast> I don't see any downside at all to #1 17:25:15 <ZxBiohazardZx> but i think 2 is a sexier solution 17:25:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> there is none 17:25:24 <ZxBiohazardZx> 1 is way better then current implementation already 17:25:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> but then 2 offers more gameplay value as in providing a difficulty setting 17:25:50 <ZxBiohazardZx> as it takes in effect a tresh-hold AND your loan/maxloan 17:26:04 <Pinkbeast> What I mean by credit facilities is that real (large) businesses negotiate lines of credit and then money is loaned automatically. 17:26:12 <ZxBiohazardZx> so if you have no loan you cant bankrupt (maybe unless your in so much dept it is rediculous) 17:26:30 <ZxBiohazardZx> how about 2 then? 17:26:33 <Pinkbeast> "if you have no loan you can't go bankrupt" seems obviously absurd. 17:26:39 <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah true 17:26:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> just another if 17:26:49 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 17:26:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka if no load then check for case 1 17:27:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> if no loan, check case 1 (aka max negative money + maxloan > 0) 17:27:33 <ZxBiohazardZx> and if you do have a loan then take that into effect by comparing to a treshhold 17:28:05 <ZxBiohazardZx> (CurrentMoney * (Loan/MaxLoan))+Treshhold Value < 0 that thing 17:28:08 <Pinkbeast> #3 seems not a bad idea. In negative money, pay higher interest; but as long as the company is projected to pay it back, the bank will let you carry on, just not spend any more money. 17:28:09 <planetmaker> Pinkbeast, automatically drawing loan would imho be terrible. 17:28:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> im not saying auto-draw loan 17:28:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> im just suggesting not to declare bankrupt when you forget/can draw loan 17:28:54 <Pinkbeast> planet: I admit it's a bad match with the current ho-ho-you-built-a-million-tunnel interface. :-) 17:29:19 <planetmaker> #3 three is bollocks. Any company starting off would be bancrupted immediately. As you always start with loan only 17:29:31 <ZxBiohazardZx> true 17:29:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> and end/high-game your interest vs income is never fun 17:29:45 <Pinkbeast> You could have a grace period before #3 applies. 17:29:54 <ZxBiohazardZx> makes it harder to implement Pink 17:29:55 <planetmaker> #2 is implemented now as higher loan = higher interests. So void as well 17:29:58 <ZxBiohazardZx> so i think 1 and 2 17:30:06 <Pinkbeast> #2 seems daft. 17:30:20 <ZxBiohazardZx> #2 makes you go bankrupt more likely when you are on max loan 17:30:28 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka it makes repaying even more beneficial 17:30:29 <planetmaker> and the point being? 17:30:41 <ZxBiohazardZx> that if you are on a low-loan you dont bankrupt as easily 17:30:47 <planetmaker> probability in bancrupting companies is... not nice 17:30:51 <Pinkbeast> But by #1 you should only be able to go bankrupt at all when on (or in debt equivalent to) max loan. 17:30:52 <planetmaker> -1 on that 17:31:02 <Pinkbeast> So #2 does nothing if #1 applies. 17:31:04 <ZxBiohazardZx> atm if you have a 10k/1000.000.000 money you can bankrupt 17:31:15 <ZxBiohazardZx> 10k/100.000.000k loan that is :P 17:31:21 <planetmaker> yes. #2 Doesn't solve that, does it? 17:31:26 <ZxBiohazardZx> yes it does 17:31:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> partially it does actually 17:31:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> see examples 17:31:46 <Pinkbeast> #3 could only apply when max loan is at least x times initial loan, so it can't carry off a starting or small company. 17:31:55 <ZxBiohazardZx> if your negative the same ammount then having a low relative loan is beneficial 17:32:16 <planetmaker> ZxBiohazardZx, #2 tries to be intelligent. But you can never guess how a player's investment tries to pay off. Keep it stupid. #2 wants to be smart, but is not 17:32:17 <ZxBiohazardZx> see the -10k on 80% relative loan and -10k on 10% relative loan 17:32:30 <planetmaker> simple rules rule 17:32:47 <ZxBiohazardZx> so then #1 is most easy of them all 17:32:56 <planetmaker> we have it now very simple: you bancrupt when your cash < 0 for 3 (4?) consecutive quarters on the 1st of them 17:33:00 <planetmaker> easy to understand 17:33:04 <planetmaker> easy to grasp 17:33:16 <ZxBiohazardZx> its darn harsh on me always :( 17:33:22 <ZxBiohazardZx> i keep bankrupting by accident 17:33:26 <Pinkbeast> I don't feel that #1 appreciably complexifies it. 17:33:28 <planetmaker> #1 makes somewhat sense to not bancrupt by chance 17:33:33 <ZxBiohazardZx> i can have -30k on the "checkdate" and +40k rest of the month 17:33:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> it doesnt unflag you 17:33:47 <ZxBiohazardZx> so if you have -XX on 4 bad days 17:33:52 <Pinkbeast> And #3 does make it more complex... but only by giving the player extra grace. 17:33:52 <ZxBiohazardZx> with a peaky income in between 17:33:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> then your screwed 17:34:17 <ZxBiohazardZx> and #1 can even be limited 17:34:25 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka if you forgot to loan 10k then we are like meh 17:34:25 <Pinkbeast> Oh, #3 doesn't bankrupt starting companies at all if it only applies when #1 is also satisfied. 17:34:28 <planetmaker> that's why I say, that #1 makes somewhat sense to me. But not #2 and #3 17:34:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> but if you forget to loan 40k we are like FU stop being an idiot 17:34:43 <ZxBiohazardZx> fair enough 17:35:03 <Pinkbeast> I see no reason to limit #1. The bank's willing to lend you that money. 17:35:06 <planetmaker> #1 also doesn't change the complexity of the bancruptcy decision. Just the criterion is changed 17:35:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> hmhm 17:35:28 <ZxBiohazardZx> i think to a more fair criterium 17:35:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka you cannot pay your debts 17:35:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> though maybe it needs a limitation 17:35:52 <Pinkbeast> That lets a company with large capital value go on _forever_ in debt. 17:35:59 <ZxBiohazardZx> as having a low loan and a high debt would be benneficial on that one 17:36:06 <ZxBiohazardZx> yes 17:36:07 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 17:36:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> hence it needs some sort of limitation 17:36:20 <planetmaker> anyway... sports. see you later 17:36:24 <Pinkbeast> When the bank ought to foreclose when you have no prospect of making money, before you can bleed away all the capital value it would otherwise get. 17:36:25 <Alberth> bye planetmaker 17:36:38 <ZxBiohazardZx> cya planet, thx for feedback :) 17:36:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> so hmmz 17:36:46 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:36:48 <ZxBiohazardZx> maybe #1 with a max-limit? 17:36:53 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka we allow you max 100k negative? 17:37:07 <Pinkbeast> I see no advantage at all to having a max limit. 17:37:27 <ZxBiohazardZx> if you have -400k money and a 500k loan is possible 17:37:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> i think that is being lazy 17:37:38 <ZxBiohazardZx> and its dodging interest 17:37:38 <Pinkbeast> OK... so what? 17:37:44 <ZxBiohazardZx> at what point do we decide its unreal 17:37:45 <ZxBiohazardZx> XD 17:37:59 <ZxBiohazardZx> id say maybe even make it money+9.999 17:38:05 <Pinkbeast> Charge interest (if that is not already done) on all negative cash balances. 17:38:05 <ZxBiohazardZx> so that if you can loan 10k your fine 17:38:08 <ZxBiohazardZx> but not too much 17:38:11 <Alberth> ZxBiohazardZx: 'real' is not a valid criterium, it is about gaming fun 17:38:15 <ZxBiohazardZx> true alberth 17:38:28 <ZxBiohazardZx> my point being on current bankrupcy you would bankrupt 17:38:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> my new system would allow huge negatives as long as you can take a loan that big 17:38:44 <Pinkbeast> ... although if you do want "real", as I said - the bank is willing to lend you the money if you pay the interest. 17:38:59 <ZxBiohazardZx> but we dont want auto-loaning 17:39:03 <Pinkbeast> Why should they care if you do it by loan or by overdraft. 17:39:07 <Alberth> ZxBiohazardZx: as planet maker said, #1 makes some sense 17:39:11 <ZxBiohazardZx> so im trying to make sure the bankrupcy flag pops on the right moment 17:39:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> yes i agree with it 17:39:20 <ZxBiohazardZx> #1 makes sence, it changes the criterium 17:39:27 <ZxBiohazardZx> but even in #1 you can have gradings :P 17:39:32 <Pinkbeast> ITYM criterion, FWIW. 17:39:50 <Pinkbeast> Those gradings seem a pointless addition to a simple and obvious change. 17:40:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A8F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:40:07 <ZxBiohazardZx> i like to think my change through before i put in my efford of coding it 17:40:10 <ZxBiohazardZx> im a horrible coder 17:40:23 <ZxBiohazardZx> so i have to think out my idea in a superb way :) 17:41:21 <ZxBiohazardZx> so yeah #1 is maybe too easy 17:41:28 <ZxBiohazardZx> "as long as you can loan your fine" 17:41:52 <ZxBiohazardZx> maybe make it a bool (canloanmore) (we already check if your not on max on getting the loan) 17:42:00 <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz nvm 17:42:07 <ZxBiohazardZx> #1's simplicity is its power 17:45:42 <Alberth> you drive yourself down the drain, how is that wrong? 17:48:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> dunno :P 17:48:48 <andythenorth> Alberth: :o 17:48:51 <andythenorth> hai :) 17:48:59 <Alberth> hi andy 17:49:12 <ZxBiohazardZx> hey andy 18:01:18 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host11-216-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:01:30 <Wolf01> evenink! 18:01:36 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-105-20.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:02:05 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 18:02:59 <Alberth> oddink 18:07:00 <supermop> Why bother making rivers buildable? 18:07:19 <supermop> you can always correct for aesthetics in scenario editor 18:07:35 <FLHerne> supermop: For when you need to move it by a tile or so, and a canal would look silly 18:08:01 <FLHerne> 'You can do it in a timeconsuming and inconvenient way' isn't really a counter-argument 18:08:02 <supermop> but if i go out to my local river and want to move it 18:08:13 <supermop> i need to build a canal 18:08:26 <FLHerne> supermop: If you do that with some big diggers, it'll work :-) 18:08:28 <V453000> pointless 18:08:30 <V453000> imo :) 18:08:35 <V453000> I dont use rivers ever 18:08:55 <FLHerne> You can skip the concreting bit though :P 18:09:03 <supermop> and the resulting trench is a canal, whether its 4 feet deep or 100 18:09:19 <supermop> most canals in real life do not have concrete edges 18:09:30 <FLHerne> Artificial rivers do exist :P 18:09:46 <FLHerne> Come over to the Fens, we have loads :-) 18:10:02 <supermop> but an artificial river that a ship can pass through is still a canal 18:10:13 <FLHerne> Anyway, in OTTD the only difference *is* the lack of edging :P 18:10:21 <supermop> regardless of how it was made or how curvy it is 18:10:46 <FLHerne> Yes, but a canal isn't an artificial river :P 18:10:54 * FLHerne would like artificial rivers :P 18:11:14 <FLHerne> Well, some canals are artificial rivers, but not the ones in OTTD currently 18:12:41 <supermop> how would an artificial river be different in game? 18:12:56 <Alberth> :{BLACK}Current production: {YELLOW}normal {}{}{BLACK}Supplies requir... <-- andythenorth, why the spaces before {} ?? 18:13:16 <supermop> would it have a different speed for ships than canal? 18:13:58 <supermop> if rivers could have current - that would be interesting 18:14:35 <FLHerne> supermop: No, just graphics (and price, maybe) 18:14:44 <FLHerne> Current would be nice, but that's different 18:14:56 * FLHerne would like current :-) 18:14:59 <supermop> probably require lots of cpu as you'd need a pathfinder of some kind to produce a guess for water direction on each tile 18:16:10 <supermop> and would need to recalculate everytime a new tile of water was added or removed to the river to determine if it changes flow 18:16:34 <supermop> or even every time a tile was raised or lowered in its watershed 18:16:52 <supermop> to determine if the river gets more rain or less 18:17:37 <supermop> town growth also would increase flow - all that paved surface leads to rain entering the channel more quickly 18:18:12 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:19:01 <FLHerne> That would be overkill :D 18:19:11 <Alberth> andythenorth: Also, with 1X, "within 3 months", is that relevant? 18:19:40 <andythenorth> possibly not 18:19:50 <andythenorth> the supplies rework is...unfinished... 18:19:59 <andythenorth> I don't recall a reason for the extra space {} 18:20:12 <andythenorth> usually there's a reason, but it might just be a mistake 18:20:24 <supermop> or maybe the ship pathfinder just guesses the water current of the channel it is in 18:20:55 <supermop> if heading toward a lock down, or sea increase speed and vis versa 18:21:33 <supermop> at least then you are only calculating for channels that have boats in them, but separately for each boat 18:22:10 <supermop> we should probably calculate land and water areas to model some wind currents for aircraft and sailboats 18:22:27 <FLHerne> Perhaps just pathfind to the nearest sea tile, and assume current is the other way? 18:22:50 <Alberth> unfortunately, the path finder won't know where it goes until it reaches the sea or lock 18:23:08 <FLHerne> Alberth: Why? :P 18:23:13 <Alberth> and what if you have contradicting directions? 18:23:25 <supermop> and then change windsock and smoke sprites accordingly 18:23:27 <FLHerne> That's why I said 'closest' :P 18:24:05 <Alberth> FLHerne: it does incremental steps, and does not revisit tiles it already visited 18:24:12 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: There's nothing dirtier then a giant ball of oil] 18:24:40 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08eaca.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:24:41 <FLHerne> Does that matter? Presumably it must remember what the route was, or it would be a pointless PF :P 18:24:49 <Alberth> 'closest' implies you're doing path finding as a child algortihm to path finding 18:25:25 <supermop> better model geology to approximate aquifers too 18:25:26 <Alberth> yep, it stores the previous tile as part of each tile 18:25:33 <FLHerne> Just check if an adjacent tile is a sea tile, then if an adjacent tile to any adjacent watertile is a seatile... blah 18:25:37 <FLHerne> Would be slow :P 18:25:43 <andythenorth> wtf are smoke sprites? 18:25:59 <supermop> andythenorth: hehe 18:26:18 <andythenorth> Alberth: feel like code reviewing any of my new python code? 18:26:37 <Alberth> I am translating your firs strings 18:26:56 <Alberth> how much is it? 18:27:41 <Alberth> your new language reports are very useful :p 18:27:56 <andythenorth> my new language reports? :P 18:28:25 <supermop> also deleting a tile of river to cut it off should result in it flooding and finding a new path 18:28:44 <andythenorth> Alberth: it's here http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/sprites/nml/industries/grain_mill.py 18:28:57 <andythenorth> I'm planning to move the common stuff to one or more other modules 18:29:09 <andythenorth> but I figured code review before I do too much more :) 18:29:16 <andythenorth> the commenting style sucks 18:29:49 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:29:56 <supermop> andythenorth: I am accidentally playing a game with two versions of fish in it 18:30:03 <andythenorth> happens 18:30:08 <andythenorth> will work fine 18:30:13 <supermop> i noticed that the boats are cheaper in one 18:30:16 <andythenorth> yes 18:30:23 <andythenorth> also the buy menu looks bad in one of them 18:30:23 <supermop> very long purchase list 18:30:30 <andythenorth> ask about eddi's buy menu fix :P 18:30:39 <supermop> i find i use the island trader too much though 18:31:11 <supermop> there is too big of a gap from the boats smaller than it up to the really big boats (1000 t or so) 18:31:11 <andythenorth> everyone does 18:31:23 <supermop> trader is like 320? 18:31:28 <andythenorth> basically I could remove everything but that boat 18:32:00 <supermop> i think there are some river barges between, but i'd like to see the odd modern (1950+) 500t boat 18:32:35 <supermop> or a less seaworthy boat similar in size to the trader 18:32:53 <supermop> i don't know enough about ships to know what that could be 18:33:21 <Alberth> indenting looks weird around line 109 and further at similar places 18:34:19 <Alberth> always interesting to name 'coords' 'sprites' :p 18:34:33 <supermop> i am using the log rafts though! 18:34:50 <supermop> down a river actually 18:35:13 <supermop> where they perversely travel faster upstream than down 18:35:28 <Alberth> # optional zextent value, will default to 16 if this param is omitted <-- i'd expect a comment in this direction at entries without zextent 18:36:07 <Alberth> supermop: there must be rivers that flow up in OpenTTD :) 18:37:35 <supermop> heh 18:38:13 <supermop> something like the tsubasa freighter but bigger would be nice 18:41:55 <andythenorth> oh yeah, indenting is weird there 18:42:00 <andythenorth> think I did a find-replace :P 18:42:04 <andythenorth> ta 18:42:05 <andythenorth> ] 18:42:19 <Alberth> andythenorth: code looks pretty good imho, I had a wicked plan to allow layout specification like in the paste http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1795/ lines 16-19 18:42:37 <supermop> that japanese thing that is like the cargosprinter -container emu 18:42:37 <supermop> how does that work? it runs on overhead, seems like the wires would get in the way of unloading the containers 18:42:37 <supermop> and if it gets pulled into the siding by a diesel shunter 18:42:37 <supermop> whats the point? 18:43:07 <andythenorth> Alberth: ho, using the actual spaces to specify position? :o 18:43:30 <Alberth> spaces is just for you, the machine uses "," and ";" 18:43:38 <andythenorth> ha 18:43:56 <andythenorth> so it's a type of matrix 18:44:09 <Alberth> a diagonal one 18:44:19 <andythenorth> could work 18:45:39 <andythenorth> I need to extend the layout to specify the tile too 18:45:49 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:45:53 <andythenorth> the string there is the nml identifier for spriteset / next switch 18:45:57 <Alberth> hi Zuu 18:46:02 <andythenorth> lo Zuu 18:46:08 <Zuu> Hello 18:47:22 <Zuu> If a GS is allowed to create industries by bypassing the NewGRF industry probability veto, can that break the NewGRF badly? 18:47:26 <Alberth> obviously, you can have arbitrary text instead of numbers, except to look somewhat convingly diagonal, the identifiers should be short 18:47:37 <Zuu> This probability function is not used by the map gen. 18:47:59 <andythenorth> k 18:48:36 <andythenorth> so if I clean up this code, it can template any common case for climate-sensitive, animated industry graphics 18:48:37 <Alberth> Zuu: afaik there are 2 probabilities, one for map creation and one for play 18:58:17 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 18:59:47 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:01:22 <Alberth> andythenorth: STR_EXTRA_FERTILIZER_PLANT: +chemicals at the end ? 19:13:17 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 19:25:49 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-28-145-220.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:26:26 <andythenorth> Alberth: yes good spot 19:26:54 <andythenorth> Zuu: that's a whole can of worms :D 19:27:22 <andythenorth> (a) in the case of FIRS, the probability breaks the newgrf anyway :P 19:28:39 <Zuu> Of course, it may give the situation when the GS can override the industry placement restrictions of the NewGRF. Such problems are to expect if the GS can override the NewGRF. 19:28:39 <andythenorth> (b) GS should be allowed to fund industries 19:28:59 <andythenorth> there are various options 19:29:15 <Zuu> However, unless that badly breaks normal NewGRFs, I don't see that its a problem. 19:29:26 <andythenorth> for example FIRS allows players to fund pretty much anywhere 19:29:40 <andythenorth> be careful not to over-ride the *tile* checks though :o 19:29:44 <andythenorth> that would be very bad 19:30:46 <Zuu> I only override this one "GetIndustryProbabilityCallback(it, IACT_USERCREATION, 1) == 0)" 19:31:07 <Zuu> What that translates to in NewGRF terms is beyond my knowledge :-) 19:31:07 <andythenorth> not sure anyone uses that yet anyway :P 19:31:11 <andythenorth> so might be moot point 19:31:14 <andythenorth> it's a recent addition 19:32:25 <Zuu> The other override is that GS always "fund" industries instead of "prospecting" them. In terms of that they can always specify a tile that they wish the industry to be placed at. 19:33:08 <Zuu> But there is no override of the further checks that apply when an industry is funded by a company. 19:34:27 <frosch123> Zuu: i guess you should overrule a newgrf saying "zero", i.e. "no construction" 19:34:37 <frosch123> the rest likely does not matter 19:36:43 <Eddi|zuHause> note that this is also a matter for the default industries (the tropic lumber mill has an appearance chance of 0) 19:36:45 <frosch123> *not 19:36:55 <frosch123> damn :/ missing a negation is bad :) 19:37:43 *** keoz [~keikoz@79.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 19:37:57 <Zuu> The actual patch is here for those of you who read code: http://devs.openttd.org/~zuu/gs-industry.patch 19:38:58 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the industry construction callback needs a value for "random creation" "player creation" and "script creation"? 19:39:02 <frosch123> + if (_game_mode != GM_EDITOR && _current_company != OWNER_DEITY && GetIndustryProbabilityCallback(it, IACT_USERCREATION, 1) == 0) { <- i don't think you should override that 19:39:15 <frosch123> i am even surprised it is allowed in editor :o 19:39:37 <Zuu> frosch123: I was not sure if that is a good idea which is why I asked here :-) 19:39:43 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-176-043.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 19:39:59 <frosch123> it would allow gs to plant plastic plants in 1400 19:40:05 <frosch123> which probably would cause bug reports :) 19:40:18 <frosch123> gs would have no idea to tell the difference 19:42:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C8B7.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:42:15 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the GS could have a flag "force creation anyway"? 19:42:32 <Zuu> I've not looked at it in detail but I suspect at least this return will cause a different error type than a construction that is failed due to "site usuitable" 19:42:49 <frosch123> Zuu: you seem to forbid DEITY to prospect industries 19:42:55 <frosch123> and make them to always fund them 19:43:03 <frosch123> + if (_game_mode != GM_EDITOR && _current_company != OWNER_DEITY && _settings_game.construction.raw_industry_construction == 2 && indspec->IsRawIndustry()) { 19:43:20 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:40 <frosch123> if you want to give the gs both options to either fund or prospect, you need do pass something via the command parameters 19:43:42 <Zuu> frosch123: Yes, because otherwise I would need to pass that information to the DoCommand method. 19:43:44 <frosch123> to distinguish the two cases 19:44:00 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe GS could prospect if tile==0, otherwise fund? 19:44:02 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:44:09 <Zuu> But I have been thinking about trying to do that as allowing a GS to prospect could be useful. 19:44:27 <Zuu> Not because its impossible to emulate, but to spare GS authors from having to implement that. 19:45:05 <andythenorth> so 19:45:09 <frosch123> well, if ottd needs 5000 tries to plant an ecs industry, a gs will take 10 years :p 19:45:16 <andythenorth> there are good and bad reasons to refuse an industry 19:45:27 <andythenorth> bad = too close to other industries etc 19:45:41 <andythenorth> good / bad /s for that one 19:45:54 <andythenorth> hmm 19:45:57 * andythenorth needs a beer 19:46:05 <andythenorth> this discussion always hurts my head 19:46:10 <andythenorth> just allow GS to do everything imho 19:46:10 <supermop> good plan 19:46:19 <supermop> the beer that is 19:46:23 <andythenorth> screw newgrf authors 19:46:28 * andythenorth is 99% serious 19:46:41 <andythenorth> industry newgrfs have been accorded way too much privilege 19:46:53 <andythenorth> but industry newgrfs are incapable of providing proper gameplay 19:46:55 <andythenorth> so let GS do it 19:47:14 <andythenorth> so we break some stuff 19:47:17 <andythenorth> [shrug] 19:47:20 <Zuu> Hmm, taking a new look at the parameters, even the p1 parameter seem to have free bits, so I do not even need to abuse the text parameter to send a "fund"/"prospect" bit. 19:47:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D860.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:48:02 <frosch123> usually the docs at the top are correct for commands 19:48:18 <frosch123> they were looked at very critical multiple times :) 19:48:52 <Zuu> Last time I looked on this was like two weeks ago and my vague memory said that there was a problem to fit in that bit, but it appears to not be the reason why I chosen this path 19:49:12 <andythenorth> derailing the topic 19:49:15 <andythenorth> can we kill subtypes? 19:49:33 <andythenorth> or at least substitute user bits for the roles that subtypes are being abused for? 19:49:46 <andythenorth> with a depot-only 'change arbitrary properties' gui 19:49:53 <Zuu> If you ask me, yes. But others may dissagree. 19:51:21 <andythenorth> they're known broken for at least one case (somewhere on FS), they're silly 19:51:51 <andythenorth> and the purposes they're used for (liveries, regearing, vehicle length, etc) are not well served by subtype 19:52:02 <andythenorth> and autorefit 'breaks' lots of those features 19:52:10 <andythenorth> and autorefit is way better for gameplay than subtypes 19:52:25 <frosch123> andythenorth: stop annoying :s 19:53:06 <andythenorth> :P 19:55:47 * andythenorth rant over 19:55:51 <andythenorth> pub :) 19:56:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:21:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24597 trunk/src/bootstrap_gui.cpp (2012-10-16 20:21:14 UTC) 20:21:20 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5336]: when fontconfig is not available, the bootstrap download crashed 20:32:20 <planetmaker> hm... I wonder whether that was the issue with osx having it crash, too 20:32:34 <TrueBrain> I understand you do hope that :D 20:32:36 <planetmaker> I'll try tomorrow... lappi is in the office 20:32:51 <Rubidium> planetmaker: unlikely 20:33:04 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, not sure... I recon I usually compiled with fontconfig 20:33:09 <Rubidium> -#if defined(ENABLE_NETWORK) && defined(WITH_FREETYPE) && !defined(__APPLE__) 20:33:09 <Rubidium> +#if defined(ENABLE_NETWORK) && defined(WITH_FREETYPE) && !defined(__APPLE__) && (defined(WITH_FONTCONFIG) || defined(WIN32)) 20:33:28 <frosch123> maybe they stopped defining __APPLE__ 20:33:29 <Rubidium> the crashy code is already excluded if __APPLE__ is defined 20:33:55 <planetmaker> well, yes. As bootstrap is excluded for apple for reasons of crashyness 20:33:57 <Rubidium> frosch123: but then more stuff would've broken 20:34:14 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@f72217.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 20:34:20 <frosch123> Rubidium: isn't that the case? :p 20:34:48 <Rubidium> frosch123: stdafx.h is littered with defined(__APPLE__) 20:35:56 <Rubidium> so if Apple doesn't define __APPLE__, much more things will be broken 20:36:30 <__ln__> and not only in openttd 20:40:11 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@f72217.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:42:27 <Alberth> maybe apple stopped being __APPLE__ :p 20:44:16 <__ln__> it's an absurd idea that after 20+ years apple would suddenly stop defining __APPLE__. end of discussion. 20:44:29 <Alberth> haha! 20:45:30 <LordAro> that's never stopped them before... 20:56:29 <glx> they would at least declare it obsolete before dropping it 20:57:26 <FLHerne> glx: Really? 20:58:04 <glx> yes like they do when they totally change UI systems 20:58:22 <__ln__> FLHerne: Really. It's not Linux kernel. 20:58:58 <glx> every new OSX version deprecates many APIs from previous versions 20:59:18 <glx> and the next one just drop them 20:59:50 *** keoz [~keikoz@79.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 21:01:28 <__ln__> and by contrast, Microsoft never drops anything from the WinAPI. good and bad sides in both approaches. 21:01:37 <glx> and you are forced to rewrite things that used to work again and again 21:02:00 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:02:49 <glx> that's why it's hard to find an OSX maintainer ;) 21:02:55 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 21:03:35 <__ln__> basically yes, but you can compile against an older SDK, so you can stay at the level of at least one or two releases earlier than the current OS you're running. 21:07:55 <Rubidium> I think OSX and maintainer are mutually exclusive 21:07:55 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@f72217.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:09 <__ln__> @seen Bjarni 21:09:09 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 1 week, 3 days, 20 hours, 50 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh 21:10:46 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:14:04 *** BadBrett [~Bad_Brett@90-227-32-82-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 21:14:22 <BadBrett> 4-4 :) 21:19:41 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus] 21:25:42 *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-193-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has left #openttd [] 21:25:42 <Eddi|zuHause> =0 21:25:57 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.1/20121010144125]] 21:28:33 <Terkhen> good night 21:28:43 <planetmaker> night Terkhen 21:30:01 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f667f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:54 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:38:02 <Wolf01> 'night 21:38:05 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host11-216-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:44:21 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:51:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:00:27 *** KouDy2 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:04:07 *** heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has joined #openttd 22:06:27 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:07:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A8F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:31 *** hmmwhatsthisdo [~hmmwhatst@h75-100-224-83.lactwa.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #openttd 22:23:47 *** efess [~Efess@ool-18bfeb53.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:37:56 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host217-43-26-41.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:15 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:07:35 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:09:06 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-125-10-83.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:26 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08eaca.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 23:27:06 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:51 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]