Log for #openttd on 25th October 2012:
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05:01:09  <BadBrett> hmm... i'm trying to attach a tender to a locomotive by using articulated parts, but when i reverse the direction of the train, the tender is moved to the front... any ideas or links to a nml file that does this properly?
05:02:03  <Supercheese> from the wiki: "CB_RESULT_REVERSED_VEHICLE to the returned vehicle ID to display the vehicle backwards. "
05:02:05  <Supercheese> does that help?
05:02:28  <Supercheese> hmm I just realized the grammar of that sentence fails
05:04:15  * Supercheese is slightly confused as to what the sentence should say.
05:04:26  <Supercheese> "Note that callback may be called from the purchase list, using vehicle variables is not possible. Or CB_RESULT_REVERSED_VEHICLE to the returned vehicle ID to display the vehicle backwards. "
05:04:42  <Supercheese> Should it be or *add* ... to the returned ID?
05:05:06  <BadBrett> hmm
05:07:08  <BadBrett> i don't get it
05:09:01  <BadBrett> that callback isn't even called when changing direction... or am I wrong?
05:09:43  <Supercheese> I don't really know either, sorry
05:09:51  <BadBrett> perhaps i explained the issue in a bad wat
05:09:54  <BadBrett> *way
05:11:49  <BadBrett> if i have a two part engine... when travelling in one direction Part1 is the engine and Part2 is the tender... but if I reverse the train, Part2 suddenly becomes the engine... it's like each part is reversed but not the order
05:12:18  <Supercheese> Hmm
05:12:22  <BadBrett> this isn't a problem with trams and such, because it doesn't matter which part comes first...
05:13:17  <BadBrett> well, i'll another look at it tomorrow... eddi should know this
05:13:24  <BadBrett> *have
05:14:48  <BadBrett> thanks anyway
05:14:53  <Supercheese> you're welcome
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05:53:19  <planetmaker> moin
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06:11:34  <Flygon> Moin?
06:13:07  <planetmaker>
06:13:17  <Markk> Moin
06:15:17  <Supercheese> "Moin" rhymes with "coin" or not?
06:15:32  <Markk> Could do.
06:15:32  <planetmaker> yes
06:15:47  <Markk> Funny thing about german btw.
06:15:57  <planetmaker> hm?
06:16:07  <Markk> When I went to Berlin I wanted to know how to say "bye".
06:16:13  <Supercheese> Which funny thing? I'm sure German has zillions, like any other language :P
06:16:15  <planetmaker> tschÌß
06:16:26  <Markk> And I heard some german folks saying: "tschÃŒss".
06:16:33  <Markk> But I thought they said "ciao".
06:16:40  <Markk> So I said "ciao".
06:16:45  <Markk> But no one noticed. :D
06:16:47  <planetmaker> that's just as fine
06:16:54  <planetmaker> both is common
06:17:17  <Markk> ah
06:18:07  <Markk> But is it pronounced in the same way?
06:18:21  <planetmaker> not exactly
06:18:50  <planetmaker> tschau vs. tschÌß, if you pronounce both German
06:19:08  <Markk> Ah.
06:19:42  <planetmaker> and there's also tschö - a more southern dialect form of it
06:21:06  <szaman> ß is deprecated AFAIK
06:21:25  <planetmaker> maybe. I don't care
06:22:14  <planetmaker> it was the only acceptable spelling when I went to school
06:22:18  <szaman> ok, not always Fuß stayed as Fuß for example :-)
06:22:31  <szaman>ß#Usage_before_the_spelling_reform_of_1996
06:23:43  <planetmaker> so if the rule is ß after long vowel then tschÌß is still correct by my way of pronounciation
06:24:52  <szaman> yes, my bad :-)
06:25:28  <BadBrett> i learned that it's perfectly okay to write "Imbissstand" nowadays... it looks ridiculous
06:25:53  <szaman> i'm a Pole so i could never learn german anyway :P
06:27:26  <szaman> 12 years of learning and nothing :P
06:27:38  <Flygon> planetmaker: Sorry for the delay, I gotcha now x3
06:27:50  <Flygon> Figured it was as such... but my language skills aren't fantastic
06:28:00  <Flygon> Either way, g'day!
06:28:38  <planetmaker> still you then probably speak better German than I Polish, szaman ;-)
06:31:12  <szaman> hehe, maybe, but i really know only some words after all these years
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06:37:12  <Supercheese> So wait, in German *all* nouns are capitalized?
06:37:40  <planetmaker> hehe... "lance armstrong bug" ;-)
06:37:50  <planetmaker> yes, nouns are capitalized
06:38:34  <Supercheese> fascinating
06:39:07  <Supercheese> well, at least it's a highly regular rule
06:40:54  <szaman> all numbers are written together
06:41:19  <szaman> as one word
06:41:26  <Supercheese> sixhundredtwentyfour, eh?
06:41:31  <szaman> yep
06:41:34  <szaman> well
06:41:41  <szaman> sixhoundredfourandtwenty
06:41:43  <planetmaker> yes. But you only write numbers up to 12 in letters. The rest as... surprise! numbers
06:42:11  <planetmaker> in normal texts that is :-)
06:42:29  <Supercheese> Well it sure beats "fourscore and seven" ;)
06:42:44  <planetmaker> quatre-vingt-douze
06:43:19  <BadBrett> i'm gonna listen to some stefan raab prank calls now
06:48:07  <szaman> there is a joke in Poland about german language: In german even birthday wishes sound like a death sentence
06:49:06  <planetmaker> But I rather suspect history to play the major role in that rather than the actual language...
06:50:37  <Supercheese> Good night folks
06:50:43  <Supercheese> valete omnes
06:50:43  <planetmaker> sleep well
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06:51:03  <szaman> i think all that left between Germans and Poles after all the history is to laugh sometimes about it
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06:51:26  <planetmaker> :-)
06:51:28  <szaman> of course within reason
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06:55:39  <BadBrett> it was quite weird last time I visited Germany... it was quite common that 20-year olds went up to us and apologized for the war
06:56:27  <__ln__> the war that sweden didn't even participate?
06:56:34  <BadBrett> exactly
06:56:57  <Terkhen> good morning
06:57:16  <__ln__> probably the 20-yeard-olds didn't participate it either, though.
06:57:20  <__ln__> -d
06:57:20  <planetmaker> moin Terkhen
06:58:03  <BadBrett> but i never understood how they could feel guilt over something that happened almost 50 years before they were born
06:58:25  <szaman> if any German would want to appologize Pole for the war, a bottle of vodka would appear in a second :)
06:59:30  <planetmaker> sorry szaman, I couldn't help it.
06:59:35  <planetmaker> Where's the vodka now? :D
07:00:03  <szaman> well, there is before 12 am here :P
07:00:13  <planetmaker> guess my time ;-)
07:01:16  <planetmaker> also, today is a no-alcohol day ;-)
07:01:27  <szaman> Zagreb time?
07:01:39  <planetmaker> likely, too, yes ;-)
07:01:51  <BadBrett> it is? i just put beers in the fridge
07:02:16  <szaman> oh, you're German :]
07:02:34  <szaman> but wait, what no-alcohol day?
07:03:04  <planetmaker> I just decided that when I woke up :P
07:03:08  <szaman> my friend from warsaw visits me today, i've already bought 2 bottles of wine
07:03:30  <szaman> and he won't come with empty hands
07:03:35  <BadBrett> false alarm
07:03:51  <planetmaker> my Czech and Japanes collegues didn't come empty-handed yesterday either ;-)
07:04:03  <szaman> oh, THAT no-alcohol day
07:04:25  <BadBrett> it all makes sense now
07:04:30  <szaman> drink orange juice *before* gtoing to sleep after drinking
07:05:05  <szaman> or eat a lemon :P
07:05:13  <planetmaker> :-)
07:05:39  <szaman> its better to go to the toilet twice a night than to be dried out for the next day
07:06:36  <BadBrett> 2 litres of milk always seems to do the trick
07:06:37  <szaman> worse if you're so drunk you don't mind to piss without going to the toilet :P
07:06:49  <__ln__> my mother's german friends were coming to visit us in finland, and my grandfather commented that by saying something like "just as i had finished driving the germans out of the country, now they're coming back!" (well that was meant to be a joke, i suppose)
07:07:13  <planetmaker> hehe
07:07:29  <szaman> sinister joke
07:10:30  <szaman> - how many gears has french tanks? - five, but there're all reverse
07:13:10  <BadBrett> hah
07:13:52  <szaman> (sorry for wrong grammar)
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07:35:41  <nickshanks> hi, how do you turn off trees? I would like to see the tiles better
07:36:41  <szaman> if you search through the menubar you'll find another bar with options to turn off trees and other things
07:36:55  <peter1138> X/Ctrl-X
07:37:37  <nickshanks> i don't see a menu bar (am on windows)
07:38:20  <szaman> nevermind, just use the X/Ctrl-X shortcut ;]
07:38:41  <Terkhen> I think he means the button toolbar that is at the top of the screen in all games
07:38:58  <szaman> yep toolbar, i missed that word
07:41:40  <nickshanks> ahh, the gear button has a Transparency Options item. I missed that, although I did see the two items at the bottom for transparent buildings and signs
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07:43:14  <planetmaker> yes... transparency is also still a bit inconsistent in that respect
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07:44:05  <NGC3982> X might be the only keyboard shortcut i use in OpenTTD
07:44:16  <NGC3982> And DEL for clearing up stuff on the screen
07:44:21  <Flygon> What about CTRL? :p
07:44:25  <NGC3982> Oh, yes
07:44:26  <nickshanks> keyboard shortcuts are not shown in the menus
07:44:27  <NGC3982> Of course
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07:44:31  <NGC3982> Both Shift and CTRL
07:44:44  <nickshanks> what do shift and control do?
07:44:55  <Flygon> CTRL is... it depends on the function
07:44:56  <planetmaker> shift generally is cost estimate
07:45:06  <nickshanks> pssh, why would you want that?
07:45:11  <nickshanks> ;)
07:45:12  <planetmaker> ctrl is... something the tooltip usually tells you (just hover mouse for a few secons)
07:45:25  <nickshanks> ahh yes, okay i understand
07:45:28  <Flygon> eg. when terraforming land, holding CTRL changes it from a diamond shape, to a square shape
07:45:45  <nickshanks> oh?
07:45:56  <planetmaker> indeed keyboard shortcuts are not listed. But... that's also difficult. They're user-configurable in hotkeys.cfg
07:46:13  <Flygon> As in, the tool's mass spread
07:46:16  <NGC3982> I just noticed something new, by the way
07:46:16  <Flygon> Not the squares themselves :p
07:46:26  <Flygon> OpenTTD is forever isometric! :p
07:46:30  <NGC3982> CTRL+click items in a goto-list
07:46:39  <NGC3982> Takes you too the location! \o/
07:46:40  <nickshanks> by the way, I work on freecol, freeciv and freeorion
07:46:46  <planetmaker> dimetric to be precise ;-)
07:47:18  <planetmaker> all nice games
07:47:42  <Flygon> nickshanks: Work on?
07:47:55  <nickshanks> although at the moment I am at work, and using a windows machine, my normal machine is a mac
07:48:10  <BadBrett> whoa
07:48:11  <nickshanks> flygon: i have commit pvdgs for freecol
07:48:16  <nickshanks> not yet for the others
07:48:20  <BadBrett> i love colonization
07:48:21  <Flygon> Oh wow, nice
07:48:36  <Flygon> I liked you before, I like you even more now
07:48:47  <nickshanks> and i've never played TTD but am an avid fan of Railroad Tycoon 2
07:49:03  <BadBrett> RRT > RRT2 ;)
07:49:16  <Flygon> I only got into TTD because a friend got me to play it
07:49:31  <nickshanks> ahh, that once happened to me with Diablo 2
07:49:33  <Flygon> According to him, I liked trains enough :p
07:49:38  <Markk> Same here, but with OpenTTD.
07:49:41  <Markk> Speaking of trains.
07:49:48  <Flygon> Well, I started on OpenTTD, anyway
07:49:49  <Markk> I downloaded Trainz Driver to my phone today.
07:49:53  <Flygon> But I meant the series in general
07:49:56  <Markk> It's bloody awesome.
07:50:33  <planetmaker> feels remarkably empty to me today
07:50:38  <nickshanks> Markk: i wish trains in my country could be controlled by mobile phones, then i would be able to hold it up while i ran to the platform
07:50:44  <Flygon> Train driving... the most monotonuous 100k/yr job there is
07:50:50  <NGC3982> Markk: Trainz Driver?
07:51:11  * NGC3982 have actually piloted quite a few trains now.
07:51:15  <szaman> speaking of, what happened to - it supposed to be freeciv in HTML5
07:51:28  <Flygon> Wait, actual trains? Or virtual?
07:51:44  <NGC3982> My girlfriend is working on Db-regio
07:51:48  <NGC3982> Actual trains
07:51:52  <Markk> NGC3982: Yes.
07:51:59  <Flygon> Ah, wow
07:52:01  <Flygon> Niiiiice!
07:52:24  <Flygon> Here, it's really hard to get into the profession (here, being, Australia)
07:52:30  <nickshanks> so anyways, my idea is to infiltrate the OpenTTD team and add features from RRT2 :) but don't tell anyone
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07:52:42  <NGC3982> X61, X14, X2, and so on
07:52:43  <NGC3982>
07:52:44  <NGC3982> :)
07:52:46  <Markk> NGC3982: Costs 0.99 USD/7 SEK atm, usually costs 2.99 USD.
07:52:46  <BadBrett>'re too late
07:52:49  <BadBrett> that's my job
07:52:54  <NGC3982> Markk: But, what is it?
07:52:55  <Flygon> eg. Metro opened up for train driver jobs, and over 3000 people applied. Only 3% of applicants got past the first step of applying.
07:53:05  <Markk> NGC3982: Have you never heard of Trainz?
07:53:05  <Markk> :S
07:53:07  <szaman> planetmaker: do you have any information about ?
07:53:32  <nickshanks> szaman: magyar vagy?
07:53:41  <Flygon> Is X a specific class of train? Or are the X and numbers combined to be individual classes?
07:53:44  <planetmaker> uhm... no, why? I mean... I played freeciv a few times, but well...
07:53:57  <Flygon> Sorry for these silly questions, but overseas classification systems are confusing :p
07:54:24  <NGC3982> Markk: No, i have no idea.
07:54:26  <szaman> nickshanks: pole and hungarian, two nephews :]
07:54:35  <planetmaker> that page looks remarkably... plain, szaman ;-)
07:54:53  <nickshanks> your name looks hungarian that's all
07:55:08  <planetmaker> but you should probably look at (not .net)
07:55:12  <szaman> planetmaker: i saw many sites including wikipedia to link as HTML5 version of freeciv
07:55:40  <NGC3982> Flygon: X14/X61/X2 is a complete set of pax trains
07:55:45  <planetmaker> you better ask freeciv devs about that then openttd devs ;-)
07:55:46  <NGC3982>
07:55:47  <szaman> nickshanks: szaman = shaman in polish
07:55:55  <NGC3982> For instance.
07:55:55  <planetmaker> s/then/than/g
07:56:08  <NGC3982> It's pretty boring driving them just in normal traffic
07:56:09  <dihedral> good morning gents
07:56:14  <planetmaker> salut dihedral
07:56:16  <NGC3982> But i see the fascination some people have.
07:56:19  <Flygon> Ahh, so it's X being the designation of the model
07:56:21  <dihedral> hey ho pm
07:56:26  <NGC3982> Flygon: I guess.
07:56:36  <Flygon> Finally, a country that uses a sensible Australia-like classification system :p
07:56:48  <Flygon> Except for all the times where you run out of letters in the alphabet, hahaha
07:56:57  <NGC3982> :P
07:57:30  <Terkhen> nickshanks: I never played RRT, which features do you miss from it?
07:57:32  <Flygon> Even worse when you've had classes retired from service, to make room for new trains... that use the same letter
07:57:42  <Flygon> And then the old trains end up being used again, with the same letter :p
07:57:50  <NGC3982> Indeed
07:57:51  <Markk> Flygon: X is the designation for electric powered multiple units in Sweden:
07:58:15  <NGC3982>
07:58:15  <NGC3982> <3
07:58:23  <NGC3982> That looks so cool.
07:58:27  <Flygon> Oh, so X actually encompasses multiple different types of EMU's?
07:58:31  <BadBrett> @Terkhen: openttd is lacking the economy part... in RRT, you can become successful even with a tiny railroad by doing smart investments
07:58:35  <Markk> Flygon: yes.
07:58:41  <Markk> Flygon: That's when the number comes in.
07:58:42  <Flygon> Oh, okay, that's confusing
07:58:46  <Flygon> Heh
07:58:54  <Markk> Is it?
07:59:01  <Flygon> Here, they're 100% seperated by letters
07:59:26  <Flygon> And then you get individual locomotives/railcars being seperated by number
07:59:46  <Markk> Each letter says which train type it is.
08:00:01  <Markk> Okey
08:00:24  <Flygon> Though, this gets quite confusing with local EMU's which, as far as I'm aware, all use M and T for motor cars, and trailers... despite there being EMU's that run across the network that are from 1920 to 2012... can't exactly say Victoria is consistant, I guess
08:00:48  <Markk> We have letter + number and then there is a for numbers that is individual for each train/wagon.
08:00:56  <Flygon> Ahh, right
08:01:02  <Flygon> Okay, that makes sense :)
08:02:05  <Markk> Yer :)
08:02:17  <NGC3982> So, an X2 is the version 2 of X1?
08:02:26  <Markk> hm?
08:02:27  <Markk> No.
08:02:43  <Markk> X2 has nothing to do with X1, exept both are EMU.
08:02:43  <nickshanks> Terkhen: okay, here's a rundown: build while paused, allows you to lay down routes without time elapsing rather than the current unpause-click-pause rubbish; rotate map, helps give better angles when choosing routes; cost to build displayed above cursor as you drag track, instead of requiring estimates; can upgrade stations by clicking on them (if space is available) instead of having to build another one next to it
08:03:08  <NGC3982> Markk: Since i notice an age difference that correlates to the number placed after X..
08:03:22  <Flygon> I guess you could say that Victoria uses the exact same system for the Metro EMU's (eg. individual classes being seperated by number blocks of xyy, where x is the class, and y are the individual units)
08:03:41  <NGC3982> But yes, true. X2(000) and X14 have quite a bit of nothing in common.
08:03:43  <NGC3982> I guess.
08:04:33  <BadBrett> actually...
08:04:49  <BadBrett> X2 has kind of something to do with x1...
08:04:50  <Terkhen> BadBrett: that's true, IMO we should try to extend GS to allow custom ecobomic models, but of course you have to decide how to deal with NewGRF interference first
08:05:27  <BadBrett> <@Terkhen> I know very little about GS, but it sounds interesting
08:05:30  <Flygon> Though, the problem is... is that we've had every single unit be renumbered, because a beurocrat thought it'd be a good idea to resort all of the classes into different numbers (despite the old system working perfectly fine)
08:05:38  <Markk> NGC3982: But the numbers after X has nothing to do with anything.
08:05:43  <Markk> NGC3982: It's just a number.
08:05:54  <NGC3982> Markk: So, the correlation between age and the number is just a coinsidence?
08:05:59  <Markk> Yes
08:06:03  <NGC3982> Ah, i see.
08:06:17  <BadBrett> the X2 configuration was actually tested in an X1 :)
08:06:23  <Markk> yes
08:06:24  <NGC3982> Im used to X14/X2 as old trains, and X61 as new trains.
08:06:26  <NGC3982> And that's about it
08:06:27  <NGC3982> :P
08:06:41  <Markk> NGC3982: There is a train called X20 that quite a bit older than X2.
08:06:51  <Markk> Same with X10, X10p and so on.
08:08:05  <Markk> NGC3982:
08:08:09  <BadBrett> do you remember this one? hard to believe that it made 222 km/h
08:08:11  <BadBrett>
08:08:36  <NGC3982> Markk: Oh!
08:08:43  <Flygon> Every time I hear 'X(number)' being mentioned... I keep thinking you're talking about this :p
08:08:50  <Markk> BadBrett: Yep.
08:09:01  <NGC3982> A commuter train for 222km/h?
08:09:04  <Markk> No.
08:09:20  <NGC3982> That sounds a bit ..not true?
08:09:20  <Markk> NGC3982: "Som ett första steg inför utveckling av ett framtida snabbtåg (som flera år senare skulle bli X 2000) hade man X1-enheten 3015 som provfordon. 3015 hade försetts med mycket starkare drivmotorer samt utrustning för lutning i kurvor."
08:09:20  <NGC3982> :D
08:09:25  <Flygon> 222km/h? I am impressed
08:09:28  <Markk> NGC3982: "Sommaren 1970 nådde X1 3015 en hastighet på 222 km/h mellan Töreboda och Skövde på VÀstra stambanan, vilket Àr hastighetsrekord för X1. Efter ha anvÀnds fÀrdigt i diverse testkörningar monterades samt bortkopplades testutrustningen och enheten kördes i normal SL-trafik fram till sin skrotning 2006."
08:09:29  <NGC3982> Aha
08:09:31  <Terkhen> nickshanks: build while paused is implemented (check advanced settings), the biggest problem with rotate map is requiring 4x sprites for terrain/buildings, that way of displaying costs would be quite nice, given how stations work in OpenTTD (specially NewGRF ones) I don't know how to tackle that feature
08:09:42  <NGC3982> Markk: Thought so
08:10:27  <nickshanks> terkhen: you don't need any new graphics, just flip the existing sprites
08:10:33  <NGC3982> What does our normal rail system support? I guess 210km/h (as with the SJ Snabbtåg) is the top limit..
08:10:52  <Flygon> nickshanks: I think what he's saying is, is that it'd look quite weird with quite a few sprites
08:11:03  <Terkhen> BadBrett: I recommend grabbing a nightly and trying silicon valley or NoCarGoal... I don't know if there are others already
08:11:25  <nickshanks> als long as sprites are rectangles or squares, it should work
08:11:26  <NGC3982> Markk: "SnÀlltågslok"
08:11:27  <NGC3982> Markk: :DDD
08:11:33  <Markk> NGC3982: 200km/h and 250km/h is common today.
08:11:36  <Markk> NGC3982: mm
08:11:42  <Terkhen> and I'm saying that some stuff such as industries are not symmetrical
08:11:54  <NGC3982> Markk: Where is 250km/h common?
08:12:24  <Markk> NGC3982: On newly built tracks.
08:12:42  <nickshanks> 1x1, 2x2 etc can be drawn without change; 2x1, 3x2 etc can be drawn horizontally flipped on +90 & +270 deg
08:12:48  <Markk> NGC3982: Like on Botniabanan and on Grödinebanan.
08:12:53  <Markk> NGC3982: "Schnellzug".
08:12:58  <NGC3982> Markk: Haha
08:13:00  <nickshanks> only T-shaped buildings and such would cause a problem
08:13:01  <NGC3982> Markk: Oh, i see.
08:13:55  <NGC3982> Markk: Ive traveled on quite a few RC1's (Green Cargo) and the normal X numbered trains between Little County and Scania.
08:14:09  <Markk> Mkay
08:14:32  <NGC3982> The advantages of having a lady in the business.
08:14:58  <Flygon> I love how you guys can say 200-250kmph like it's casual
08:14:58  <nickshanks> another problem with OpenTTD is that click targets are too small, for example when trying to load the topmost saved game, i often click "Parent Directory" in error
08:15:14  <Markk> Flygon: 200-250km/h it really slow.
08:15:16  <Flygon> Here, you say 160km/h, and you have everyone scrambling around screaming "That's impossible!"
08:15:20  <NGC3982> And - by far the most bizarre thing ive ever encountered - was traveling with a Infranord Rail Adjuster.
08:15:29  <Markk> Flygon: Sweden is seriously behind in development of hi-speed trains.
08:15:31  <Markk> :/
08:15:37  <Flygon> Australia isn't?
08:15:49  <NGC3982> Markk: What's the top speed of SJ's X3?
08:16:03  <Flygon> The fastest trains ever get designed to operate at here, is around 200km/h
08:16:03  <Markk> NGC3982: SJ?
08:16:09  <Markk> NGC3982: X3 isn't owned by SJ.
08:16:14  <Flygon> But track condition tends to limit them from 130 to 160km/h
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08:16:15  <Markk> Flygon: oh
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08:16:19  <Markk> That sucks.
08:16:22  <Flygon> Yes
08:16:23  <NGC3982> Markk:
08:16:27  <Markk> Flygon: But 200km/h.
08:16:32  <Markk> NGC3982:
08:16:37  <Markk> NGC3982: It's Arlanda Express.
08:16:52  <Markk> NGC3982: SJ 3000 != X3
08:16:52  <Markk> ...
08:17:03  <Flygon> 200km/h has only ever been achieved, at least locally, in speed trials... I've actually been around tracks when that's happened (the trials, that is)
08:17:18  <Markk> NGC3982: SJ 3000 is a trademark, just like X2000.
08:17:33  <NGC3982> I was making some weird comparison, i guess.
08:17:37  <Flygon> Going by how much the whole area shook, I can only assume that part of the reason this wouldn't happen, is because many segments of track aren't even built to handle 180kmph+
08:17:38  <Markk> NGC3982: And the trains are just normal Regina trains (X53 I think), top speed of 200-250km/h.
08:18:02  <NGC3982> Markk: X55, apparently
08:18:12  <Markk> That's probably correct.
08:18:28  <NGC3982> How boring.
08:18:46  <Markk> I was really into trains for 4-5 years ago, before the "SJ 3000".
08:18:56  <Flygon> Markk: What qualifies as face blisteringly fast in Australia
08:19:23  <Markk> :D
08:19:24  <Markk> Diesel?
08:19:27  <Flygon> Yes
08:19:29  <Markk> haha
08:19:32  <Flygon> Diesel-Hydralic
08:19:36  <Markk> Fancy.
08:19:46  <Flygon> Which... will bite V/Line in the ass should they ever decide to use 25kV electric
08:20:02  <Markk> We don't have so much diesel trains.
08:20:05  <Markk> (so many?)
08:20:14  <Flygon> Of course not, you're all smart enough to use overhead wires
08:20:19  <Markk> Yer
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08:21:12  <peter1138> D-H is sadly common here too :-(
08:21:13  <Terkhen> nickshanks:
08:21:16  <NGC3982> Markk: We don't?
08:21:17  <Flygon> Funny story with the VLocity trains, actually... they do have secondary electric motors, added late in design, because the default Diesel-Hydralic arrangement didn't give enough horsepower to go through certain hills @ 180km/h (normal operating speed is 160km/h, but you're perimitted 10% overspeed)
08:21:48  <Terkhen> WRT clicking, I use a bigger font
08:21:59  <Markk> NGC3982: nope, not really.
08:21:59  <Flygon> So technically, they're a Diesel-Hydralic, Diesel-Electric, and Battery-Electric (batteries are there for if the fuel runs out... and to start the engines :p) DMU
08:22:08  <NGC3982> Markk: For some reason, we still use diesel Y1/Y32 trains in Little County.
08:22:12  <NGC3982> Krösatågen, for instance.
08:22:43  <Flygon> As it turns out, it's insanely expensive to maintain such an arrangement... V/Line didn't actually expect them to become popular enough to necessitate replacing nearly the entire V/Line fleet with them
08:22:46  <peter1138> best bit about 3rd rail is the lovely flashes
08:22:50  <NGC3982> As far as i know, DSB don't have the money to replace them. :(
08:23:39  <Markk> NGC3982: Yes, that's one of the few.
08:23:43  <nickshanks> Flygon: this is the only pic I can find of a eurostar and a javelin together:
08:24:05  <Flygon> NGC3982: How old are they? We're using vintage Diesel locomotives for mainline freight in Australia, still
08:24:08  <NGC3982> Markk: That might a local observation, though.
08:24:17  <NGC3982> Flygon: The Y32's arent that old, afaik.
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08:24:49  <Flygon> Still in service, since the mid-50s
08:24:57  <NGC3982> They are for some reason the most healthy looking trains i have ever seen
08:25:00  <peter1138> hmm, eurostars are 20 years old now o_O
08:25:25  <NGC3982>
08:25:26  <Flygon> NGC3982: Well... if you do ever decide to get rid of them, Australia'll somehow make their lifespan be 80 years :p
08:25:46  <Flygon> nickshanks: The Eurostar is the one on the top?
08:26:42  <Markk> This is the best website about Swedish trains:
08:26:48  <Markk> Unfortunaly it's in Swedish.
08:26:49  <peter1138> my local railway operator (DB) runs a couple of BR class 121s
08:26:51  <Flygon> Railfans here tend to make jokes about the Javelin trains, because they're manufactured by Hitachi... some of the oldest EMU's still used by Metro Melbourne are the Hitachi fleet (almost 40 years in service)
08:26:58  <Markk>
08:27:05  <Markk> So click on that link instead.
08:27:06  <Flygon> The Hitachi are so nitorious, there's even sightings threads for them
08:27:28  <peter1138> which is a single-car diesel unit from the 1960s
08:27:32  <Flygon> So basically, anyone going to Britian will say they saw a Javelin train as a Hitachi :p
08:27:54  <Markk> "Lokguide" means "Engine guide", so that's the one you want to click.
08:28:28  <Flygon> peter1138: I'm really impressed with British railcars... they seem to have this ability to absolutely refuse to die
08:28:47  <peter1138> i've been on it, it's horrible
08:28:52  <peter1138> so very very slow
08:28:56  <Flygon> I've never ridden one
08:29:20  <Flygon> There isn't that many preserved Victorian railcars here, sadly
08:29:32  <Flygon> Lots were one-offs, and lots were scrapped, because they kept failing
08:29:57  <Flygon> Didn't help that we tended to have very primative railway engineering compared to the rest of the world
08:31:02  <nickshanks> Flygon: yes
08:32:23  * Flygon nod
08:32:31  <nickshanks> Flygon: it's not that british rail cars refuse to die, it's just that new ones are built to 1960's specs, and weathered before being introduced
08:32:39  <Flygon> The Javelin looks clearly much less worn out
08:32:51  <peter1138>
08:33:19  <nickshanks> (that was an attempt at humour by the way)
08:33:52  <Flygon> I took it as serious
08:34:11  <Flygon> Australia is very behind the times still, hahaha
08:35:41  <Flygon> It's hard to believe we want to build a 400kmph HSR between Melbourne and Sydney
08:36:06  <peter1138> wanting and doing are two separate things
08:36:23  <Flygon> Depends how you define doing
08:36:31  <Flygon> We've had at least 6 case studies since 1981
08:37:03  <planetmaker> haha. And we have a several maglev tracks in Germany. Going by "want" in the past
08:37:27  <Flygon> The only thing that can be seen as having gotten out of any of them, are the 160kmph trains scattered around the country
08:38:21  <Flygon> eg. around 1981, NSWGR decided to order a 'fast train' fleet, the result that came out is the XPT
08:38:41  <Flygon> Which is basically a BR Intercity 125 regeared for 160kmph operation =/
08:45:41  <Flygon> planetmaker: Frankly... Maglev would be perfect for the Melbourne-Sydney HSR
08:46:19  <Flygon> No need to tunnel, because you can just climb up and down grades without giving a damn... the Melb-Syd HSR would be going through what's basically Australia's only mountain range
08:46:33  <peter1138> what?
08:46:43  <Flygon> But, the powers that be are insistant on 400km/h Iron Rail is the solution
08:47:09  <Flygon> peter1138: Maglev can climb on sharp grades much more easily than conventional rail
08:47:53  <Markk> Hm, why don't we put some wings on the trains, and sort of, transport them in the air to the destination?
08:48:00  <Flygon> Taking advantage of this could theoretically push down the cost of construction to below that of Iron Rail for the same speed, because of not having to build so many bridges and tunnels through a mountain range
08:48:07  <Flygon> Markk: We've done that already
08:48:15  <Flygon> And now we have one of the world's busiest air routes
08:48:21  <Markk> :D
08:48:37  <Flygon> And Sydney refuses to build a second airport... alongside that, there is heavy curfews on the Sydney airport
08:51:03  <nickshanks> my old train to work: got me to work on time more often than my current train: :(
08:51:04  <Flygon> Now you can see why the Melb-Syd HSR campaign is gaining traction
08:52:04  <NGC3982> My eyes.
08:52:06  <NGC3982> The colors :(
08:52:14  <Flygon> What's wrong with the colours?
08:54:16  <Flygon> Can't possibly be any worse than this!
08:54:43  <peter1138> Mem:   8198516k total,  7538784k used,
08:54:46  <peter1138> ^ modern software :-(
08:55:09  <Flygon> Lucky bugger
08:55:26  <peter1138> Swap:  1951888k total,  1934932k used, < as well, lol
08:55:39  <Flygon> I only have 4GB of RAM D:
08:55:57  <nickshanks> flygon: that train needs more spikes on the front. i don't think it's deadly enough to pedestrians
08:55:59  <peter1138> closed *one* app and mem used dropped to 4.3GB
08:56:18  <Markk> Mem:          7955       5312       2643          0        159       2077
08:56:24  <nickshanks> was that app openttd? :)
08:56:28  <Markk> Using 5312 MB.
08:56:40  <Flygon> nickshanks: Nah, the one that kept killing pedestrians was the Victorian Railways L-class :p
08:57:27  <nickshanks> oh crap, i just realised: "Victorian Railways" probably doesn't mean trains from 1850, but trains from the state of victoria
08:57:50  <Flygon> We used to have a long distance electric line... early in it's years, people would constantly get smashed into by L-classes because they thought they'd be as noisy as VR's Diesel fleet
08:58:07  <Flygon> As it turns out, the L-class is one of the quietest locomotives ever built in Australia
08:58:30  <peter1138> no, openttd uses hardly anything
08:58:32  <peter1138> it was monodevelop
08:58:44  <Flygon> Anyway, I gotta go
08:58:49  <Flygon> Need to drop someone off
08:58:56  <nickshanks> I can only forgive people who are hit by supersonic trains
08:58:57  <peter1138> cliff?
08:59:15  <nickshanks> for everyone else, it's their own stupidity
09:00:09  <nickshanks> this looks interesting, but most of these projects seem dead now:
09:01:15  <Flygon> Annnnd she's taking her time
09:02:46  <Flygon> nickshanks: Level crossing accidents are practically an epidemic here
09:02:59  <Flygon> And probably the only reason the VLocity fleet aren't run @ 200kmph+
09:04:02  <Flygon> Strangely, most accidents happen with the locomotive fleet... which are renowned for being flying bricks
09:04:04  <Flygon> Okay, gotta go
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09:31:05  <Soft> why do my aircrafts keep crashing all the time ._.
09:31:22  <Flygon> Are you using Large Aircraft in Small Airports?
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09:31:31  <Soft> Yes
09:31:39  <Soft> Is that a bad thing
09:33:24  <Flygon> The crash chance every time an aircraft lands is 5%, if it's a Large Aircraft in a Small Airport
09:36:44  <Flygon> Otherwise, it's 0.1%
09:37:00  <Flygon> I'm not sure how often Helicoptors crash, though... never had one crash
09:37:50  <Soft> oh okay, now I just need to figure out how to fit a large airport into tightly populated area
09:38:05  <Flygon> Could use Feeder Routes
09:38:21  <Flygon> Or bulldoze a lot... or place it on the outer rim of the city
09:38:24  <__ln__> build it underground... hmm, no
09:39:21  <Flygon> Well
09:39:26  <Flygon> Actually
09:39:37  <Flygon> An underground Blimp/Heliport could be pretty cool
09:39:59  <Soft> Hmm I think I will go with bulldozing, the city pretty much covers all of the land in a small island so
09:40:14  <Soft> Or maybe I could expand the island a little
09:41:18  <Flygon> Expand the island
09:41:31  <Flygon> Try to expand the pie, not eat more of the existing pie :p
09:50:06  <peter1138> < trying to reach the underground runway
09:56:36  <Flygon> Heh
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10:04:10  <Markk> is offline, yes.
10:04:50  <Markk> peter1138: :D
10:13:03  <szaman> planetmaker: it's after 12, so, my proposition: :]
10:13:31  <planetmaker> :D
10:17:09  <szaman> i love these "pure-fect" bottle designs of wyborowa
10:22:45  <szaman> not to mention how it looks when is iced hard in a post-soviet icebox without thermostat :P
10:31:48  <nickshanks> Question: When I do a ?-click on some buildings, they say things like Cargo accepted: Passengers, 2/8 Mail, 2/8 Cargo. What exactly does this mean?
10:32:36  <Eddi|zuHause> nickshanks: when you place a station near buildings, the 2/8 etc. of all buildings are summed up, and if you get to 8/8, the station accepts mail
10:33:21  <Eddi|zuHause> so you'd need at least 4 of these buildings to accept mail or goods, but one will suffice for passengers
10:33:30  <nickshanks> if I have, say, three buildings accepting Passengers, does that mean I get 3x the revenue for delivering passengers to that town?
10:33:35  <Eddi|zuHause> no
10:33:43  <Eddi|zuHause> everything above 8/8 is irrelevant
10:33:48  <nickshanks> okay, thanks!
10:34:45  <Eddi|zuHause> (you do, however, get more passengers the more buildings you have within reach)
10:35:41  <nickshanks> is there a way to see how many passengers/mail/cargo is generated per unit of time, and how quickly they dissipate if not transported?
10:36:12  <Eddi|zuHause> when you click on the town, you see an account of the total number of passengers produced
10:36:30  <Eddi|zuHause> and they only dissipate if your station rating drops below 50%
10:36:54  <nickshanks> station rating?
10:37:13  <Eddi|zuHause> if you click on the station, you get a rating
10:37:37  <Eddi|zuHause> which depends mainly on how much is waiting, and how long ago the last vehicle picked something up
10:37:45  <nickshanks> ok
10:39:13  <nickshanks> the city panel says passengers/mail last month: X, max: Y is that referring to generated, transported, something else?
10:39:45  <Eddi|zuHause> you get Y if you cover all houses, and have 100% rating (which is almost impossible)
10:40:25  <Eddi|zuHause> if you have 60% rating and cover half the houses, X is 0.6*0.5*Y
10:40:31  <Eddi|zuHause> (roughly)
10:41:11  <Eddi|zuHause> X is how much actually appeared at your stations
10:41:36  <nickshanks> use busses to cover the other half, right?
10:41:43  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
10:41:56  <Eddi|zuHause> but there are many possiblilties :)
10:42:08  <nickshanks> airports on either side of a town
10:42:26  <nickshanks> pop. 224
10:42:41  <Eddi|zuHause> that is not a lot :)
10:43:52  <nickshanks> but if they are multi-milionaires with private jets each, maybe they need two airports
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10:56:23  <Flygon> Two Intercontinental Airports
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11:30:14  <lugo> ... time for an unrealistic aircraft set, V453000? :P
11:30:30  <V453000> hell no :)
11:30:35  <V453000> aircraft is dumb
11:31:06  <V453000> also if it is unrealistic then it has nothing to do with already taken photos ;)
11:31:18  <Flygon> lugo: That's an FBA drone with two giant bombs
11:31:22  <Flygon> FBI ffff
11:39:20  <NGC3982> V453000: Aircraft's not dub >:(.
11:39:27  <NGC3982> Oh, oops.
11:39:33  <NGC3982> It might be dub, though
11:39:36  <NGC3982> But not dumb.
11:40:05  <V453000> well if you declare building 2 airports, buying vehicles, and sending them there not dumb, then I am not sure what is dumb
11:41:52  <V453000> especially compared to train networks, obviously
12:03:03  <Soft> So I built a heliport but I don't seem to be able to purchase helicopters anywhere
12:06:12  <lugo> Soft: you need a hangar in order to do that..
12:07:05  <Flygon> lugo: Depends... what if he's too late in the game? And isn't using NewGRF's?
12:08:27  <lugo> that's step 2 :P
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12:11:58  <Soft> Im in the 2080's
12:12:02  <Flygon> Yeah
12:12:09  <Flygon> I think you've gone too far...
12:12:58  <Markk> I love to play it until the year ~2200 to 2400.
12:13:13  <Markk> The cities grows extremely much in that time.
12:13:22  <Soft> There are no helicopters in the future o_O
12:13:39  <Flygon> Well
12:13:53  <Flygon> I'd say use the... whatsitcalled
12:14:07  <Flygon> AV8 or something NewGRF, the one with the Blimps and Zepplins
12:14:11  <nickshanks> i have a concept called a Rabbit Hole
12:14:18  <Flygon> They have some really nice late-game coptors
12:14:35  <nickshanks> an evacuated underground tunnel 1000 kms long
12:15:08  <Flygon> Is this in OpenTTD, or real life?
12:15:11  <nickshanks> with electromagnetically driven public vehicles
12:15:14  <nickshanks> in my head
12:15:17  <Flygon> Ah, right
12:15:20  <Flygon> So, basically
12:15:25  <Flygon> Maglev vactubes
12:15:41  <nickshanks> yep, underground, going between capital cities
12:16:26  <nickshanks> no driver, passengers just press a button, get in the next one to arrive, and give a destination
12:16:29  <Flygon> You know what'd be very useful?
12:16:37  <nickshanks> lots of money?
12:16:38  <Flygon> A Sydney-LA 8000kmph Vactube
12:16:52  <Flygon> It'd 100% revolutionize trans-Pacific shipping
12:17:02  <nickshanks> it'd only be useful to porn actors who wanted to live in Sydney
12:17:17  <Flygon> Though, more likely, it'd become a radial vactube from Hawaii
12:17:32  <Flygon> eg. Hawaii'd branch out to LA, Syd, and Tokyo
12:17:42  <Flygon> Or Beijing... perhaps both
12:18:25  <nickshanks> we should persuade china to build one
12:18:35  <Flygon> Nah
12:18:43  <Flygon> China has a spotty train safety record
12:18:59  <Flygon> I'd only trust an Australian, American, Japanese, or European builder
12:19:02  <nickshanks> since they get off on splurging money on massive public works projects
12:19:22  <Flygon> ...seriously, not even the French TGV is legally allowed to go over 115km/h in most Australian railways
12:19:32  <Flygon> Because it wouldn't meet crash safety standards :B
12:20:00  <nickshanks> britain is still suffering from a chronic lack of in-cab signalling
12:20:16  <Flygon> nickshanks: Come to Australia
12:20:31  <nickshanks> ok, okay then
12:20:49  <szaman> poland started to install in-cab signaling in recent year AFAIK
12:20:52  <Flygon> We've succeeded in having British tube employees being terrified when they've ridden in (then Connex) Metro train cabs
12:20:54  <nickshanks> i'll just go to australia, cos some guy on the internet told me to
12:21:21  <Flygon> Simply because one of the things holding the rails in place, were wooden planks
12:21:28  <Flygon> This is in the underground subway system of Melbourne
12:21:33  <nickshanks> those are called Sleepers
12:21:35  <Flygon> No
12:21:38  <Flygon> It wasn't the sleeper
12:21:38  <nickshanks> hehe
12:21:44  <Flygon> They were sleeperless tracks
12:21:55  <nickshanks> those are called ruts in the road
12:22:01  <Flygon> Problem is
12:22:04  <nickshanks> ;)
12:22:05  <Flygon> The tracks came loose
12:22:10  <Flygon> The maintainence solution?
12:22:23  <Flygon> Use some wooden two-by-fours and wedge it between the wall and the rail
12:22:35  <Flygon> I'll need to find some photos
12:22:40  <nickshanks> great until it rains, and the wood expands
12:23:19  <nickshanks> this is what happens in britain:
12:23:20  <Flygon> This was underground
12:23:30  <Flygon> ...
12:23:33  <Flygon> How the heck?
12:23:38  <Flygon> Nearly said a very bad word, just then
12:24:40  <Flygon> Well... it isn't wooden planks
12:24:47  <Flygon> But this should give you enough details :p
12:25:10  <nickshanks> "The train passed over a faulty set of points which failed, causing the rear set of wheels to travel onto a parallel line. The train then flipped over and came to rest wedged between the platform and the building structures. Seven people lost their lives and another 76 were injured. The accident was caused by a collection of maintenance errors."
12:25:32  <Flygon> ...
12:25:40  <Flygon> Absolutely unbelievable
12:26:13  <Flygon> The worst we usually get around here is this:
12:26:47  <Flygon> The end result was that the Comeng got rebuilt, and the N-class locomotive got a tyre change and a new windshield... they both otherwise survived okay, and nobody got killed :B
12:27:43  <nickshanks> one of the people killed in that crash i showed was an old woman walking below the (elevated) platform, who got hit by falling debris
12:27:56  <Flygon> Oooouch...
12:28:00  <Flygon>
12:28:35  <nickshanks> that crash was 5 miles from where I live, but two years before there was another one in my own town, where four died (i think)
12:28:55  <Flygon> This is unbelievable
12:29:04  <Flygon> I thought Britian had much better safety standards than that...
12:29:14  <nickshanks>
12:29:16  <Flygon> Almost all rail accidents here are suicides and rail crossing crashes
12:29:48  <nickshanks> we don't count suicides
12:30:05  <Flygon> Ah
12:30:06  <Flygon> We do
12:30:12  <Flygon> They impact on the driver, very very badly
12:30:35  <Flygon> ...would you believe that nobody got injured from this, not even the crew?
12:31:18  <Flygon> The injuries sustained happened because of the driver exiting the cab
12:31:49  <Flygon> Still
12:31:57  <Flygon> I am utterly astounded Britian can have such horrid accidents
12:31:59  <nickshanks> yes, sure, but generally suicides don't kill anyone but the idiot
12:32:01  <Flygon> Given how strong your rail culture is
12:32:13  <nickshanks> i created this article:
12:33:25  <Flygon> I presume you're not the only contributor?
12:34:53  <Flygon> Worst accident that I can think of happening locally, in recent time (keep in mind, the state I live in, is bigger than Britian, and a tad bigger than Poland)
12:34:57  <nickshanks> no, it's much expanded since i created it
12:35:26  <Flygon> Ahh
12:35:27  <Flygon> Gotcha
12:39:48  <Flygon> I've always been terrible at contributing to Wiki articles
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12:44:08  <Flygon> "In 1884 at Little River, two enginemen and one passenger were killed and 486 persons injured when two trains crashed into ono another head on. The accident came about through a station-master leaving his little girl in charge, and she gave a staff to a train, and enabled it to proceed, whereas she should have held it until the train coming in the opposite direction had arrived."
12:44:15  <Flygon> ...holy hell
12:44:19  <Flygon> Times have changed, indeed
12:50:33  <Pinkbeast> These days we have motorists to take care of that sort of thing. :-(
12:54:26  <nickshanks> is there any record of what happened to that little girl as she grew up
12:56:10  <Flygon> nickshanks: It's pre-federation Australia
12:56:11  <Flygon> So...
12:56:13  <Flygon> Who knows?
12:56:23  <Flygon> Victoria was full of Irishmen  back then
13:07:39  <NGC3982> Ah, the irish
13:07:50  <NGC3982> Making a fuzz about not being british for a few hundred years.
13:09:33  <szaman> - this year in poland
13:10:43  <szaman> head-on at nearly 100km/h
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13:13:05  <Flygon> szaman: I heard
13:13:09  <Flygon> It was all over the news here
13:15:11  <szaman> the main reason why such tragedies are happning in poland is because autions for construction works are resolved only by price
13:15:20  <szaman> auctions
13:15:30  <Flygon> Ahh...
13:15:35  <Flygon> Here, if works are done
13:15:39  <Flygon> We shut down the line
13:15:42  <Flygon> Because of exactly this
13:16:25  <dada__> damn
13:16:30  <dada__> that's awful
13:16:34  <Flygon> It is
13:17:02  <dada__> aren't you the same Flygon from tasvideos?
13:17:21  <Flygon> Ever notice how Bisqwit was always trying to get me into OpenTTD
13:17:25  <szaman> well, this works could be done safely if "better" contractor have been chosen
13:17:31  <Flygon> And it turned out that someone that wasn't him got me into it? :p
13:17:42  <dada__> I didn't know he was trying to get anyone into openttd
13:17:53  <dada__> but then I haven't seen him around lately, except on youtube in his esoteric programming videos
13:18:27  <Flygon> Best we not discuss that
13:19:06  <dada__> well, anyway, I'm sickly addicted to openttd these days
13:19:13  <dada__> not really too active on tasvideos anymore
13:19:23  <Flygon> It seems we've both moved on
13:19:38  <Flygon> I'm going between addicted, and distracted by other things/work :p
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13:20:09  <andythenorth> bonsoir
13:20:16  <dada__> well, main reason for why I'm not that active anymore is because I got pretty sick earlier this year and I'm still recovering and so I'm trying to take it easy with regard to doing things, like making encodes
13:20:22  <V453000> hi andy :)
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13:21:30  <Flygon> I wish for us to stop discussing TASVideos
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13:23:55  <dada__> I'm not
13:24:45  <planetmaker> bon jour, andythenorth
13:24:50  <Flygon> Alright
13:24:52  <Flygon> Thank you
13:25:47  <Belugas> hello
13:27:10  <Flygon> Yo
13:28:20  <andythenorth> ariverdici
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13:29:45  <TyrHeimdal> openttd needs to come back to the ipad :/
13:30:06  <TyrHeimdal> would be epic
13:32:25  <Ammler> it would not long hold there, someone would come by and request drop because they think, it is a illegal ttd copy :-)
13:33:30  <Ammler> but unofficial ports are avaialbe, aren't?
13:33:36  <TyrHeimdal> I read somewhere that there was some communication between the developer of the ipad version and the original studio
13:33:52  <TyrHeimdal> there was
13:33:58  <TyrHeimdal> I bought it as well
13:34:01  <TyrHeimdal> but it was pulled
13:34:33  <dada__> how much time/effort do you guys spend on ships? it seems like half my time is spent on them. for some reason I love making canals everywhere.
13:34:50  <TyrHeimdal> ^^
13:35:14  <Ammler> [15:33] <TyrHeimdal> I bought it as well <-- you had to pay?
13:35:16  <Flygon> I rarely use ships
13:35:22  <Flygon> Except for fringe cases
13:35:24  <Flygon> Such as oil
13:35:38  <TyrHeimdal> Ammler: hmmm, good question actually... don@t remember
13:35:42  <Flygon> And 19th centery mass cargo transprt
13:35:48  <Flygon> But even then, they've been so slow
13:35:54  <TyrHeimdal> IÂŽd have to check
13:35:59  <Flygon> It's been more profitable for me to create artificial islands
13:36:04  <Flygon> And build bridges across the ocean
13:36:07  <TyrHeimdal> but then open part should suggest it should have been free :P
13:36:53  <dada__>,%2028-11-2195.png
13:37:07  <michi_cc> TyrHeimdal: You'll wait a long time unless Apple rescinds its ban on GPL software in the app store.
13:37:37  <TyrHeimdal> michi_cc: they have a policy agianst GPL there? for real?
13:37:48  <TyrHeimdal> if thatÂŽs the case, thatÂŽs bad
13:38:43  <Flygon> Wow
13:38:47  <michi_cc> The app store terms of service are incompatible with GPL (they take some rights you have under GPL) and Apple choose to resolve that by removing all GPL software and not by changing its ToS.
13:39:40  <TyrHeimdal> heh, thatÂŽs apple for ya ^^
13:39:54  <Flygon> dada__: I've never been good at building pretty networks
13:40:27  <dada__> well, for ships, timetables are everything
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13:40:59  <dada__> if you play with breakdowns off like me it's not difficult, all you gotta do is set up a constant waiting time for the station for ships
13:41:27  <Flygon> Hmm
13:41:44  <Flygon> Timetables always throw me off... seems hard to manage without a routes feature, too
13:42:21  <Flygon> eg. You create a timetable for a route, and assign vehicles to it... but, ehhh
13:42:28  <TyrHeimdal> i never got why one would use timetables actually
13:42:29  <dada__> my largest city is starting to become pretty large
13:42:32  <Flygon> I can see how that'd become confusing... I just confused myself
13:42:41  <Flygon> TyrHeimdal: There can be good reasons
13:42:53  <dada__> well, timetables are used to prevent the "bunching up" effect
13:43:29  <dada__> ships show the effect the most noticeably, they all bunch up into one supership instead of nicely spreading out, which is what you want to aim for
13:43:35  <TyrHeimdal> but wonšt that be hugly complex when the number of trains go up?
13:43:46  <TyrHeimdal> ah
13:43:56  <TyrHeimdal> so more for ships then anything else..?
13:43:57  <dada__> I don't have much timetable experience with trains, but it can be of use there too
13:44:06  <dada__> only have been using them for a little while
13:44:30  <Flygon> Ah, yeah
13:44:44  <Flygon> Only thing I've really timetabled is trains
13:44:52  <dada__> it's basically just a way to keep them all in sync, to make sure that trains/vehicles reach the station at a frequent interval, instead of in random intervals
13:44:58  <Flygon> But I find them confusing, without seeing it in 24 hour time...
13:45:10  <dada__> random intervals lower the efficiency/station rating
13:45:39  <TyrHeimdal> even for non-passanger transports?
13:45:49  <__ln__> *passenger
13:46:17  <TyrHeimdal> would think an industry would be happy if it got itÂŽs stuff out as fast as possible
13:46:36  <__ln__> *its
13:47:11  <TyrHeimdal> ln, both are true
13:47:34  <dada__> basically, the longer the industry's cargo lies waiting at the station, the worse
13:47:44  <dada__> frequent intervals means they don't wait for so long
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13:58:30  <dada__>,%2010-11-2197.png
13:58:57  <dada__> I should get around to signalling and activating my train line over there
13:59:24  <Flygon> I could never build such pretty networks...
13:59:36  <Flygon> All I end up doing is plopping down trams, and a train, and off I go
13:59:58  <Flygon> And then turn it up to 11
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14:00:01  <dada__> well, I care more about how things look than about efficiency or anything else :P
14:00:12  <dada__> hehe that's neat tho
14:00:42  <dada__> looks very high capacity
14:01:18  <Flygon> Absurdly so
14:01:38  <Flygon> I have enough Tram routes to need more alphabet letters @.@
14:02:13  <Flygon> Thing is, though
14:02:19  <Flygon> All I seem to build is massive stations @.@
14:02:23  <Flygon> Nothing particulary... pretty
14:02:48  <Flygon> I felt kinda guilty at increasing the max station size for that one
14:06:50  <dada__> looks quite good, I need to do more high capacity stuff
14:06:55  <dada__> I should get into openttdcoop
14:07:05  * planetmaker usually can't increase max station size for things like that.
14:07:42  <Flygon> Ehh
14:07:46  <Flygon> I'd be pretty bad with coop
14:07:54  <Flygon> Also, I've had my share of disasters
14:11:44  <Pinkbeast> I confess the ottdcoop chaps seem utterly mad to me
14:13:05  <Flygon> Agreed
14:13:10  <Flygon> Annd I'm pretty nuts
14:17:46  <planetmaker> Might be related to my default max_station_spread being 64, though ;-)
14:18:03  <Flygon> Hahaha
14:18:07  <Flygon> Mine's usually 32...
14:18:14  <Flygon> But it's been pushed up, for some games >_>
14:21:19  <Ammler> sation_spread 64 is way too small, it should be map size ;-)
14:23:14  <peter1138> cheat!
14:26:06  <V453000> utterly mad? :(
14:26:07  <dada__> ah, looks like I can quit playing openttd for now, finally got some work to do
14:30:40  <Soft> What should I do with old vechiles? Should I command them to a depot, clone them and sell the old ones one by one or is there an easier way.
14:31:51  <peter1138> depends what you want to do with them...
14:32:00  <peter1138> though it sounds like you want autorenew
14:32:21  <Soft> I dont really know, the game just keeps informing me that they are very old
14:33:22  <peter1138>
14:33:51  <peter1138> hmm, that page talks about openttd.cfg but not the settings window o_O
14:34:45  <Soft> Oh thats just what I was looking for, thanks
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14:46:58  <krinn> hi, i see something odd: AISign.IsValidSign(id) return true for a sign own by NONE/DEITY while the function use 	return si != NULL && si->owner == _current_company;
14:47:16  <Pinkbeast> V453000: That's not necessarily a bad thing - for example I am a great admirer of Joff Summerfield, who rode around the world on a penny-farthing recently, the second person to do so ever (and the first one didn't build his own bike first). But that was utterly mad. :-)
14:47:33  <V453000> :P
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14:48:53  <krinn> and of course current_company just cannot be NONE/DEITY in an AI
14:49:14  <planetmaker> krinn, anybody can edit the sign of another company (or unaffiliated signs)
14:50:20  <krinn> well, the AI version state it only return valid for your own company, and the si->owner == _current_company might be there for that
14:50:44  <krinn> but the odd thing, is that it still return true, so something is weird with the si->owner check
14:50:46  <V453000> Pinkbeast: you could always join openttdcoop :P
14:51:25  <krinn> planetmaker, and of course the sign really exist, but not own by the ai company, so it should remain hidden and return false no?
14:51:59  <planetmaker> dunno... what should it do? Not sure
14:52:10  <planetmaker> Both makes sense. Under certain disjunct use cases
14:53:13  <krinn> well, the sign exist, but own by deity/none
14:53:39  <krinn> but the Ai version of IsValidSign return true
14:54:02  <planetmaker> which is not isValidOwnSign ;-)
14:55:07  <krinn> {
14:55:07  <krinn> 	const Sign *si = ::Sign::GetIfValid(sign_id);
14:55:07  <krinn> 	return si != NULL && si->owner == _current_company;
14:55:07  <krinn> }
14:55:21  <krinn> that's the AISign.IsValidSign function
14:57:00  <Pinkbeast> V453: Or I could set off towards Constantinople on an ordinary. But either seems unlikely, I fear.
15:03:43  <V453000> how come
15:05:27  <Pinkbeast> Well, in the one case, jolly dangerous and while I like cycling, you can have too much of a good thing. In the other... it's not really how I play OTTD. For example, I shudder gently at any kind of logic construction.
15:07:39  * NGC3982 is getting ready for the masquerade.
15:07:41  <NGC3982>
15:11:43  <V453000> I dont think logic constructions are in any way shape or form a key aspect :)
15:14:54  <Pinkbeast> I'm counting any piece of track laid for a purpose other than trains travelling along it
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15:21:42  <Kitty> 26
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15:31:13  <peter1138> i love adhoc coop play
15:32:03  <peter1138> i also like to use some ships & aircraft, so openttdcoop is out for me :p
15:41:34  <Pinkbeast> ... although I would like some more signalling features so one doesn't have to lay that logic track, yes, I know, do your own, etc.
15:42:05  <peter1138> programmable signals... probably a patch for that somewhere
15:43:36  <Pinkbeast> There is a progsig patch but there's obviously a lot more could be done with signals
15:48:42  <Terkhen> IMO the order mess should get fixed before we get into programmable signals :P
15:49:24  <peter1138> what mess?
15:56:19  <NGC3982> Im sorry, but i think i need to turn to this channel for something strange.
15:56:40  <NGC3982> Im looking for a western/cowboy based intro scene to an anime series. The anime series is based on a NES/SNES game.
15:56:46  <NGC3982> Does it ring any bells?
16:00:32  <Terkhen> the order GUI mostly; I don't use comple orders much but it seems to be complicated
16:00:40  <NGC3982> Oh, i found it. Never mind the OT.
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16:01:18  <Terkhen> the most complex thing I do is transfer and leave empty
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16:16:00  <Soft> Coconut run 2 from openmsx really remainds me of crash bandicoot games O_o
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16:28:16  <Alberth> oi
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16:32:58  <Terkhen> hi Alberth
16:38:28  <Alberth> hi
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16:48:53  <frosch123> hai albert, hola terkhen :)
16:50:17  <Terkhen> hi frosch123  :)
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17:19:32  <dada__> love them maps with lots of hills
17:19:37  <dada__> just too easy if it's all flat
17:20:19  <Terkhen> increase the sea level a bit too :)
17:20:30  * Terkhen likes hilly peninsulas and islands
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17:38:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by terkhen :: r24626 /trunk/src (group_gui.cpp road_cmd.cpp) (2012-10-25 17:38:12 UTC)
17:38:18  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5432]: MSVC 2010 warnings.
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17:45:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24627 /trunk/src/lang (catalan.txt unfinished/tamil.txt) (2012-10-25 17:45:14 UTC)
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> catalan - 5 changes by arnau
17:45:25  <DorpsGek> tamil - 190 changes by aswn
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17:53:57  <__ln__> hmm, it's snowing at this time of year
17:56:05  <frosch123> is that realistic?
18:04:44  <Zuu> I've heard and seen pictures of it further north. However no snow here.
18:12:22  <Kjetil> It snowed here earlier today
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18:18:42  <Alberth> hi andy
18:19:01  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: until a few days ago, we had 24°C
18:22:55  <MNIM> I had 22C until yesterday, now it's half that
18:23:53  <frosch123> -125C ?
18:25:15  <Alberth> or 0x116 perhaps
18:25:23  <MNIM> frosch123: C, not K!
18:27:00  <Alberth> MNIM: then you're missing about 125 degrees :p
18:30:25  * Rubidium wonders whether MNIM would use the same phrasing when it's -22C and becomes -11C. Did the temperature half?
18:31:04  <Rubidium> s/half/halve/?
18:31:19  <MNIM> if I were a good mathematician, I would.
18:31:25  <MNIM> ...I am not a good mathematician.
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18:35:18  <Wolf01> oddink o/
18:36:41  <Alberth> evenink Wolf01
18:50:17  <Wolf01> tranquillity lane this evening too?
18:51:12  <Rubidium> oh... you want something to talk about. I have something with Italian subtitles you might like
18:54:27  <Rubidium> Wolf01: especially for you:
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18:55:17  <Wolf01> lolwhut? it's worse than teletubbies
18:55:40  <Wolf01> at least they are pretty :P
18:56:39  <Rubidium> can you imagine another song of that same group was #1 for 17 weeks?
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19:24:13  <drac_boy> hi
19:25:36  <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r24628 /trunk/src/script/api (script_road.cpp script_road.hpp) (2012-10-25 19:25:31 UTC)
19:25:37  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Document and enforce precondition start != end for ScriptRoad::RemoveRoad and ScriptRoad::RemoveRoadFull
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20:05:11  <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r24629 trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt (2012-10-25 20:05:04 UTC)
20:05:12  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r24628): Also update regression test
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20:47:46  <MNIM> what the heck 0.0
20:47:51  <MNIM> there's ottd for android?
20:48:05  <Kjetil> OTTD for everything
20:48:21  <Rubidium> MNIM: no, OpenTTD *on* Android
20:48:24  <MNIM> well, except for ios.
20:48:32  <MNIM> 'cause screw iCrap?
20:48:39  <Rubidium> MNIM: there was OpenTTD *on* iOS
20:48:45  <Rubidium> but Apple doesn't like it
20:49:14  <MNIM> hehehe
20:49:20  <MNIM> same thing, really.
20:49:21  <MNIM> anyway.
20:49:29  * MNIM DL-s the F out of ottd
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20:49:53  <Rubidium> for OpenTTD *for* Android you first need to do many changes to the UI before it's touchscreen usable
20:52:40  <drac_boy> heh
20:53:16  * drac_boy is still waiting to be able to run ottd along ttdxp yet but will just play with the latter alone for the time being till then
20:54:18  <Rubidium> huh? You can run both next to eachother, can't you?
20:55:39  <andythenorth> eh?
20:55:51  <drac_boy> its either 1. complains about being a window exe and not run or 2. wouldn't even network at all
20:56:00  <drac_boy> but I'll rather not rant about it
20:56:01  <frosch123> andythenorth: is snow a subtype of water cargo?
20:56:13  <andythenorth> frosch123 I have no idea :)
20:56:15  <drac_boy> snow cargo? 0_0 what kind of funny idea is that now
20:56:22  <andythenorth> I thought we didn't discuss subtypes any more?
20:56:32  <frosch123> exactly, we are only trolling
20:56:34  <andythenorth> ask Michael in the forums
20:56:37  <Kjetil> snow cargo isn't that dumb
20:56:44  <andythenorth> snow is a valid cargo
20:56:50  <andythenorth> in snowy places, they truck a lot of snow
20:57:10  <Kjetil> Getting rid of the snow in cities is a huge challenge during the winter
20:57:50  <andythenorth> use fire
20:57:58  * drac_boy would rather just pack down the snow and/or set it into an artifical ski/sled hill nearby
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20:58:15  <drac_boy> otherwise they shouldn't had built a large car-depending population there in first place ;)
20:58:47  <frosch123> <- that's how it was done in my home town
20:59:05  <frosch123> well, i guess it is still done that way
21:00:41  <andythenorth> oh mogs
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21:02:12  <andythenorth> in the uk stuff just stops when it snows
21:02:49  <frosch123> yeah, places with > 50 cm snow can deal better with it, than places with < 10 cm
21:03:27  <frosch123> > 2m it gets complicated again :)
21:03:43  <Kjetil> then it's time to dig in
21:03:48  <Rubidium> why does it get more complicated with >2m?
21:03:56  <andythenorth> just more costly
21:03:57  <andythenorth>
21:04:11  <Rubidium> it gets pretty messy when it starts to thaw
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21:04:39  <Rubidium> but while it's freezing the snow should pretty much stay up and you'd be able to make 'canals' in the snow
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21:14:35  <frosch123> night
21:14:38  <Kjetil> - snowclearing at the airport
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21:15:18  <Terkhen> good night
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21:20:59  <andythenorth> night
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21:44:40  <Wolf01> 'night all
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21:59:51  <__ln__>
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22:08:49  <MNIM> hehe. suckers tried to open fire on some of the best trained regular soldiers in the world.
22:08:53  <MNIM> baaad idea.
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22:58:42  <supermop> anyone want to play a game tonight?
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