Log for #openttd on 3rd November 2012:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:41  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:04:46  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
00:05:41  *** roadt [~roadt@] has joined #openttd
00:07:28  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:20:51  *** LordAro [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:20:52  *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:21:23  *** Flygon_ [] has joined #openttd
00:26:57  *** cyph3r [] has joined #openttd
00:28:06  *** Devroush [] has quit []
00:28:37  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur]
00:28:38  <DanMacK> Anyone around?
00:32:12  <__ln__> not me
00:32:26  <__ln__> i'm back from watching movie of the year!
00:32:43  <DanMacK> Which movie?
00:32:50  <__ln__> Dredd 3D
00:33:36  *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
00:33:40  <Flygon> I've yet to see that
00:34:41  <Flygon> I got to see The Prestige on TV last night, however. :P
00:34:50  <__ln__> it's in cinemas for two exactly two days here, exactly once per day.
00:35:26  <Flygon> ...
00:35:27  <Flygon> What?
00:35:41  <Flygon> That's terribly short time period
00:35:45  <__ln__> no shit
00:36:23  <__ln__> it wasn't going to be in cinemas at all here (was considered to be to unpopular, i suppose) but some fans lobbied enough for it.
00:37:08  <Flygon> Strange
00:37:09  <Flygon> Here
00:37:14  <Flygon> It's being shown everywhere
00:37:27  <Flygon> Perhaps Superhero films don't rake in dough in Finland?
00:39:24  <__ln__> this one is rated 18, so that may be part of the story. no underage teenagers allowed, and they're probably a big portion of superhero movies' audiences.
00:57:10  <Flygon> Oh dear
00:57:15  <Flygon> Well
00:57:26  <Flygon> I can see the plane tickets to Britian selling well :p
00:57:46  *** cyph3r [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
00:59:43  *** mahmoud [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:49:58  *** kero [] has quit [Quit: kero]
02:00:50  *** dada_ [] has quit [Quit: goodbyte]
02:01:46  *** dada78641 [] has joined #openttd
02:02:16  *** pugi [] has quit []
02:05:49  *** LordPixaII [~pixa@] has joined #openttd
02:05:49  *** Pixa [~pixa@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:17:48  *** roadt [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:28:21  *** argoneus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:44:08  *** Killlman4 [] has joined #openttd
03:44:26  *** Djohaal [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:44:30  <Killlman4> Hello, I'm having some problems with openTTD
03:45:02  <Supercheese> how so?
03:45:26  <Killlman4> I'm having trouble joining multiplayer games
03:46:00  <Killlman4> Keeps saying connection lost when trying to join
03:46:47  <Supercheese> Hmm, yeah that is a problem
03:47:02  <Supercheese> Lots of things could be going wrong
03:47:25  <Killlman4> I can join some but not others
03:47:26  <Supercheese> I'm not much of an expert on network issues, unfortunately
03:50:08  *** DanMacK [] has quit []
04:00:56  *** Killlman4 [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
04:07:11  *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9806:62ad:3185:e82c] has quit [Quit: bye]
04:08:30  *** kero [] has joined #openttd
04:12:41  *** roadt [~roadt@] has joined #openttd
04:23:19  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
04:33:53  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:56:01  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
05:56:16  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
06:27:53  *** sla_ro|master [slaco@] has joined #openttd
06:39:20  *** Supercheese [~Password4@] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]]
07:25:28  *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:b506:bd73:a0c5:13e8] has joined #openttd
07:34:14  <andythenorth> is it valid to declare nml industry properties with empty values?
07:43:41  *** Elukka [] has joined #openttd
07:52:15  <Yexo> no
07:55:33  <andythenorth> I'd better handle that then :)
08:02:24  *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:b506:bd73:a0c5:13e8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:02:42  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
08:13:44  <andythenorth> Yexo: numeric ids in hex here are being converted by python to dec when it renders them
08:13:49  <andythenorth> does that matter?
08:13:54  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
08:14:56  <andythenorth> compiles fine, appears to work in game fine
08:40:53  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
08:44:33  <andythenorth> Yexo: do you guess there's any (compile) performance difference between (1) declaring more item-property blocks, but not duplicating properties unnecesarily, (2) declaring fewer blocks, but some properties are identical in every block ?
08:49:10  <andythenorth> option 2 probably has larger grf filesize
09:02:58  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why would the number format matter?
09:04:38  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
09:05:22  *** Hyronymus [] has joined #openttd
09:07:29  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
09:18:02  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I can't think why it would. The codebase I'm converting from declares them as hex though...wondered if it was significant.
09:23:06  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
09:23:24  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
09:27:40  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
09:33:00  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
09:33:00  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
09:33:03  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
09:33:33  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
09:33:41  <Alberth> lo andy
09:35:43  <andythenorth> oops
09:35:47  * andythenorth has had a failure of logic
09:36:06  <andythenorth> wish there was more spec support for disabling an industry
09:36:08  <andythenorth> i.e. a flag
09:36:22  <andythenorth> instead of turning the action 0 on / off with action 7 etc
09:44:41  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
09:46:36  *** Kurimus [] has quit []
09:49:21  <peter1138> is there a climate availability flag?
09:50:08  <peter1138> i guess the issue is that to define (a disabled) industry takes up a slot, and there are limited slots
09:50:18  <andythenorth> no climate flag for industries :)
09:50:24  <andythenorth> and yes
09:50:34  <andythenorth> the limited slots makes sense
09:50:40  <andythenorth> ta
09:51:03  * andythenorth back to if() else()
09:51:11  *** Kurimus [] has joined #openttd
09:57:19  *** mahmoud [] has joined #openttd
10:00:30  *** argoneus [] has joined #openttd
10:03:32  *** Markavian` [] has joined #openttd
10:07:41  <andythenorth> anyone want to convert some FIRS industries to economy support?
10:07:55  <andythenorth> literally copy-paste [unless you get a compile fail] :P
10:08:21  * andythenorth has to go to the shops and maintain babies etc
10:08:43  *** Markavian [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:09:45  <andythenorth> arable farm / bauxite mine tell what needs to be done :P
10:12:21  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
10:17:30  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
10:24:12  *** pugi [] has joined #openttd
10:33:43  *** Devroush [] has joined #openttd
10:39:21  *** Eagle_Rainbow [] has joined #openttd
10:41:25  *** DanMacK [] has joined #openttd
10:45:06  <DanMacK> Hey all?
10:49:02  <Eagle_Rainbow> hi
10:50:48  *** kero [] has quit [Quit: kero]
10:53:47  *** DanMacK [] has quit []
11:00:36  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
11:05:01  *** Pixa [~pixa@] has joined #openttd
11:05:02  *** LordPixaII [~pixa@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:13:01  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
11:13:41  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
11:21:16  <andythenorth> magic flags can't do any harm, right? :P
11:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause> there's good magic and evil magic
11:27:50  *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@] has joined #openttd
11:28:49  <andythenorth> lo DanMacK
11:29:04  <andythenorth> nearly all magic is evil
11:29:07  <andythenorth> auto-magic is ok
11:30:23  *** Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
11:30:25  <DanMacK> Hey
11:33:47  <Eagle_Rainbow> andythenorth, or even worse, if the automatism fails...
11:39:54  *** DDR [] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work]
11:42:58  <andythenorth> hmm
11:43:08  <andythenorth> economies kind of need to be defined in one file
11:43:17  <andythenorth> then anyone can make one
11:43:19  <andythenorth> config file format
11:47:49  <Eddi|zuHause> why not just make a list of industry-identifiers?
11:48:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean a python-list
11:48:44  <Eddi|zuHause> and python-identifiers (object references)
11:48:59  <andythenorth> could do yes
11:49:03  <andythenorth> can anyone edit those?
11:49:10  <andythenorth> config files seem to be idiot proof
11:49:18  *** Simonn [] has joined #openttd
11:49:26  <Simonn> sup buddies fellas amigos
11:49:59  <Simonn>
11:50:02  <Eddi|zuHause> and what kind of idiot is your target audience for manually editing and compiling a grf?
11:50:13  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I don't want to name names :P
11:50:21  <Simonn> !!! everyone look what u think
11:50:26  <Simonn> am I good boy
11:50:27  <andythenorth> actually afaik, no-one has reported modifying FISH
11:50:30  <Simonn> good openttd professional
11:50:33  <andythenorth> and FISH is config file driven
11:54:51  <andythenorth> oh python
11:54:56  <andythenorth> why elif instead of else if
11:55:20  <andythenorth> :P
11:56:26  <Eddi|zuHause> syntax analysis vs. semantical analysis
11:57:06  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly
11:57:06  <andythenorth> less readable :P
11:57:11  <andythenorth> unusual for python
11:59:21  <Eddi|zuHause> it simplifies stuff on the parser/compiler side if  you don't reuse reserved words like that- but then that's probably not consistent with other parts of the language
12:00:04  <Alberth> python would need  else:\n if
12:01:04  <dada78641> Simonn: looks very good. Would love to see how you fare with a map that  has maximum mountains :)
12:01:23  <dada78641> some of those tunnels at the center bottom are pretty long tho..
12:01:24  <Simonn> fuck maximum mountains I live in Belgium no mountains here
12:01:33  <Simonn> I went for realistic stuff
12:01:39  <dada78641> I live just north of you :)
12:02:05  <dada78641> but I prefer mountains in my maps, love to build with lack of space
12:02:09  <Simonn> tunnels center bottom
12:02:10  <Simonn> lemme check
12:02:30  <Simonn> there are bridges on top of them
12:02:33  <Simonn> tunnels come out for a lil air there
12:02:44  <dada78641> the ones by the factory
12:02:57  <Simonn> I see
12:02:59  *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:02:59  <Simonn> I'll fix that
12:03:00  <Simonn> np
12:03:04  <Simonn> leave it up to simon
12:03:08  <dada78641> cool cool just a suggestion :)
12:03:17  <Simonn> criticism from the north
12:03:19  <Simonn> NMBS on the job
12:03:22  <Simonn> Infrabel doing their thing
12:03:23  <Simonn> np np
12:03:28  <dada78641> hehe
12:03:43  <dada78641> this looks nice tho I never make an ything this efficient
12:08:23  <Simonn> it's big problem that you can't place lights in tunnels
12:08:25  <Simonn> big big problem
12:08:47  <Simonn> also underground stations, direction changes and stuff would be nice
12:24:42  *** Kurimus [] has quit []
12:28:11  <andythenorth> meh
12:28:21  <andythenorth> set a prop to turn on auto-magic?
12:28:27  <andythenorth> or set a prop to prevent it being used?
12:28:32  <andythenorth> turning it on is more explicit
12:28:39  <Simonn> turn on auto magic ofc
12:34:16  *** fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
12:47:41  *** kero [] has joined #openttd
12:49:58  *** kero [] has quit []
12:50:15  *** kero [] has joined #openttd
13:03:41  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:12:50  *** Devroush [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:13:07  *** Devroush [] has joined #openttd
13:21:17  * andythenorth uses irc similar to Teddy Bear principle
13:27:13  *** dada78641 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:33:47  *** Djohaal [] has joined #openttd
13:39:03  *** drac_boy [] has joined #openttd
13:39:25  * drac_boy shoves flygon into the firebox "by accident"
13:39:30  <drac_boy> heh heh
13:39:37  <Flygon> Y'know
13:39:46  <drac_boy> how're you anyway?
13:39:54  <Flygon> I figured out the only possible way to mix the Victorian railfan community and the demoscene
13:40:04  <Flygon> Make a Sega 32x do a rendition of the Hitachi trains... :B
13:40:11  <Flygon> I'm okay
13:41:11  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: interested in helping finish FIRS economies?
13:41:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm concerned that i rather trigger a "throw this code out and program it from scratch" event
13:41:50  *** dada78641 [~dada_@] has joined #openttd
13:42:13  <andythenorth> he
13:42:29  <drac_boy> flygon so anyway heres something if you haven't seen it before
13:42:40  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause the prevailing FIRS idiom is 'migrate the existing codebase'
13:42:43  <andythenorth> :P
13:42:54  <andythenorth> this is the 5th or 6th time probably
13:43:20  <drac_boy> route filled with tunnels = problem in smoke getting to cab a lot .... solution: since its oilfired, its simple to install longer fuel pipes with "flipping" the locomotive around so it was cab in front and stack in rear
13:43:39  <drac_boy> worked pretty well since SP owned several of these for a long time
13:43:41  <Flygon> Huh
13:43:50  <Flygon> That makes perfect sense
13:44:00  <Flygon> Wouldn't want to be in a level crossing accident in it, though
13:44:28  <drac_boy> flygon well it was out-open-country route so there were only cursory farm roads
13:45:00  <drac_boy> some of them did work in yards tho...and that was where one problem came up..when they had to run in reverse it was a very long 'blind' sight from the engineer's cab window :-s
13:45:31  <drac_boy> you can imagine how worser it is if its shoving a train backward through a left-branching turnout ... can't see anything
13:46:44  <drac_boy> that was why a lot of the carbody diesels usually liked to have one A units at both ends of any B units .. for the sake of making it easy to run bidirectional
13:47:07  <drac_boy> eg FA-FB-FB wouldn't had been so happy on freight trains but FA-FB-FA was ok nevertheless since it had a cab for both ends
13:47:48  *** slanina1 [] has joined #openttd
13:47:57  <slanina1> hello
13:48:24  *** slanina1 [] has quit []
13:48:39  *** dada__ [~dada_@] has joined #openttd
13:50:26  *** pugi [] has quit []
13:51:23  <andythenorth> can't figure out if 'economies' is one python file, defining over-rides on cargos / industries
13:51:51  <andythenorth> or if each cargo / industry defines its own over-rides for each economy
13:51:57  <drac_boy> flygon of course there was the thing with Burlington, when they merged into BN there were many F units to cast off but a freight boom reversed that and the remaining got a quick overhaul but still it could be a sight back then to see 8+ F units on one single train making only 40mph :)
13:51:58  *** Pixa [~pixa@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:52:08  <Flygon> Nature called, sorry
13:52:10  *** Pixa [~pixa@] has joined #openttd
13:52:19  <drac_boy> it was of course not for long since BN had more ge uboats and the so on order by then
13:52:44  <andythenorth> 'central' or 'distributed' for economy config isn't bikeshedding :P
13:53:03  <Flygon> We had the similar issue with cab sighting on our bulldog nose units
13:53:15  <Flygon> When VR was Dieselizing, they ordered two types. S-class, and B-class
13:53:52  <Flygon> S-class were streamlined, B weren't (and had two full cabs)... guess which became much more popular? :p
13:53:59  <drac_boy> heh
13:54:00  *** dada78641 [~dada_@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:54:09  <Flygon> The S-class had a rear cab, but it was very very spartan, and cramped, and uncomfortable
13:54:09  *** dada__ [~dada_@] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
13:54:17  *** dada78641 [~dada_@] has joined #openttd
13:54:22  <Flygon> Not really safe (or aerodynamic) @ over 20-30km/h
13:55:13  <Flygon> S-class in reverse: Unsafe at any speed
13:55:17  <drac_boy> flygon actually some FB units had what was almost an emu-like cab shoved away to one side of the vestibules  (basically a folding control desk, a small chair, etc) ... of course that was only used for when the B units had to be moved around shed or was doing a sighted backup move with no wagons in front
13:55:22  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in CETS, each vehicle says which set it's in.
13:55:41  <andythenorth> I am thinking that's better for 'one and only one place'
13:55:56  <Flygon> Not worth driving from :p
13:56:00  <andythenorth> otherwise for any industry 'what are my properties?' is defined by multiple files
13:56:04  <andythenorth> messy
13:56:21  <Flygon> Ahh
13:56:31  <Flygon> So it was driven outdoors?
13:56:39  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the list of cargos may be automatically derived from the list of industries?
13:56:49  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: possibly
13:57:08  <andythenorth> I'm just trying to figure out how to get industries to generate a manifest of properties when they're rendered
13:57:40  <drac_boy> flygon no...just inside the body
13:57:54  <Flygon> that a kettle-basin on the bottom-right?
13:58:00  <Flygon> Ah, gotcha
13:58:08  <drac_boy> but the switcher Calf units did have exposed hostler controls tho .. so yeah they weren't nice in the winter or during heavy rains
13:58:17  * Flygon nodnod
13:59:07  <Flygon> I can imagine
13:59:33  <Flygon> Open-wall cable cars/trams didn't kick off here for the same reason
13:59:35  <Flygon> Rained a lot
14:00:05  <drac_boy> flygon and which of this is an alco DL-109 usually ran around New England ... and the funny story tho was that on a frozen winter morning the only thing that was certain to start up were these DL-109's!  (compared to any other units)
14:00:17  <drac_boy> of course there were never many of these in the first place :/
14:00:29  <Flygon> Oh wow
14:00:36  <Flygon> That looks almost like an S-class
14:00:47  <Flygon> Even the livery choice :p
14:01:07  <Flygon> In terms of colours, anyway
14:01:17  <Flygon> Why didn't they make more DL-109's?
14:01:32  <drac_boy> and flygon if you want something with a different slant try this  its a bit of outward slant .. plus more sharper curve to top of the nose too
14:02:10  <Flygon> Oh wow
14:02:13  <drac_boy> many of them eventually were regeared for freights (but some kept their steam generator in case) .. .and if you need to ask .. the odd rod on one side of roof was for an early train radio system of PRR's own
14:02:16  <Flygon> That is... certainly interesting
14:02:35  <Flygon> I'd have said it's a trolleypole :p
14:02:48  *** Eagle_Rainbow [] has left #openttd [Leaving]
14:03:11  <drac_boy> even PRR's cabooses carried the same early radio setup too .. but of course as soon as the uniform standard radio was introduced PRR dropped theirs
14:03:33  <Flygon> Of course
14:04:25  <drac_boy> flygon and which of this kinda almost looks like a GP9 with its cab roof chopped off I guess heh
14:05:13  <Flygon> That is
14:05:16  <drac_boy> there were a decent fleet of them .. owned by different succeeding railroads up to till shortly after amtrak was created (the non-passenger track fee was the main problem ... most of the times it was much cheaper to just use a nearby freight diesel route instead
14:05:23  <Flygon> One of the ugliest locomotives I've ever seen
14:05:38  <Flygon> It looks like the Borg assimilated pantograph technology
14:05:52  <drac_boy> well it was supposed to be a simple basic freight locomotive .. no frills :P
14:06:01  <Flygon> No kidding
14:06:02  <drac_boy> unlike the GG1 with all its streamlinings for an extreme contrast ;)
14:06:03  <Flygon> :p
14:06:25  <drac_boy> btw I think I know of another kind of "ugly" you may do a double take on :P ...
14:07:33  <Flygon> uh oh
14:10:31  *** dada78641 [~dada_@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:11:10  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
14:13:26  <drac_boy> here flygon does THAT grille remind you of the 50's america cars or what? :p
14:13:40  <drac_boy> only a few were ever built...changed hands a lot as obvious by the many paintjobs
14:14:00  <Flygon> Hahaha h wow
14:14:20  <Flygon> I... that is one of the most 50s things I've ever seen
14:14:38  <Flygon> It must be tiny
14:14:54  <drac_boy> and heres something a bit less ugly its riding on B-B trucks now but as built they actually had A1A's instead for old branchlines with the provision to be converted into B's in the future which CN certainlly made so
14:15:17  <drac_boy> basically it was to work around the problem of a GP7 being too heavy but a small switcher locomotive not being powerful enough
14:15:54  *** sla_ro|master [slaco@] has quit [Quit: DANGER is OFFLINE DANGER]
14:16:17  <Flygon> Hmm
14:16:26  <Flygon> Seems pretty standard, to be honest
14:16:55  <drac_boy> at least one of them actually worked the remaining freight rails there was on vancouver island (rail ferry connection yeah) ... but now that operating area's all ripped up I think
14:17:12  <Flygon> Resembles this, sorta
14:17:24  <Flygon> And from what you describe, they do the same thing
14:17:26  <Flygon> Shunt
14:18:14  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:18:24  <drac_boy> and flygon if you want something a bit different that was from newfoundland when there was still rails going there abit narrow gauge. it did dieselize for a while (with comical GP-look-alike locos) but finally shutted down for good due to better roads&boats
14:18:53  <drac_boy> even PEI island actually had a spider web of rails too (standard gauge I think? I forgot) but now theres absolutely nothing
14:18:57  <Flygon> ...this thing must be shorter than it is tall
14:19:09  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
14:19:32  <drac_boy> so yeah basically the only rail service to the east coast is just the VIA train heading to halifax or the few freight routes around Nova Scotia and New Brunswick areas
14:19:44  <andythenorth> someone define a FIRS basic economy?
14:19:46  <Flygon> What's so strange about the steam locomotive?
14:19:51  <andythenorth> give me a list of included cargos and industries?
14:20:18  <andythenorth> I need a test case to code against
14:20:43  <drac_boy> flygon sometimes it happens that a small locomotive uses a vertical inline engine .. and keeps wide walkways for shunting crews to stand on .. so it gives them a skinny-n-tall look
14:21:03  <Flygon> Ehh
14:21:11  <Flygon> All they did was whack a 40hp tractor engine in
14:21:41  <Flygon> I can only assume, myself, that they wanted something quick-n-dirty
14:22:27  <drac_boy> flygon which of if you want something that was a bit taller than usual try these locomotive krauss-maffei 1962 pc.jpg  I'm sure the extra height was to fit the hydraulic systems underneath the diesel engine while still retaining the fuel tanks as is
14:22:46  <Flygon> ...Australia's trucking culture knows o bounds
14:22:51  <drac_boy> SP owned a few of them for some time .. but I think they just were not so reliable especially for an unique small group among emd and ge diesels otherwise
14:23:05  <andythenorth> brandt
14:23:26  <Flygon> They don't seem tooo tall x3
14:23:34  <drac_boy> that was the only one locomotive this krauss-maffei company ever built :|
14:23:48  <drac_boy> flygon well compared to a normal GP9 they were noticeably higher but mm
14:24:17  <drac_boy> flygon but either way I think you still remember the Kof II little locomotive I showed you last time of course ;)
14:24:23  *** mkv` [] has joined #openttd
14:24:41  <Flygon> Hmm
14:24:42  <Flygon> I see
14:25:13  <drac_boy> that reminds me...
14:26:54  <drac_boy> heres a 2ft lima shay .. as-built and in its new private ownership life with a better steel cab
14:27:05  <drac_boy> and yes .. the headlight is as big as the boiler I know :P
14:27:48  <Flygon> That's a spiffing looking restoration
14:28:26  <drac_boy> well flygon the easy thing is... just chunk in one piece of wood..check water injector...sit there for a while looking at the scenary .. then chunk another small piece of wood in
14:28:31  <drac_boy> such is the very tiny firebox :P
14:28:45  *** burtybob [] has joined #openttd
14:28:58  <Flygon> Heh
14:29:04  <drac_boy> and the coal fired ones .. just use a flour scoop to fire it :)
14:29:11  <Flygon> xD
14:29:19  <Flygon> Soo, what
14:29:27  <drac_boy> flygon this is what happens when you get into 2ft gauge .. everything is slow but yet at the same time lazy :P
14:29:34  <Flygon> Bring the train up to Coles, and buy a bag of flour?
14:29:38  <drac_boy> rofl
14:29:44  <burtybob> Is there a way to prevent cargo building up at a station that PREVIOUSLY had a vehicle capable of carrying it?
14:29:52  <andythenorth> HEQS trams are 2ft gauge ish :P
14:30:02  <andythenorth> burtybob: bulldoze the station
14:30:04  <drac_boy> andythenorth well they have to share the street so thats understandable tho ;)
14:30:22  <burtybob> That the only way? I've got other vehicles delivering to it :/
14:30:47  <andythenorth> let entropy take its course
14:31:19  <MNIM> unfortunately it means lower station ratings...
14:31:40  <drac_boy> flygon btw don't know if you know these kind of locomotives but they were called Forney and were very common on some narrow gauge lines with generious curves  it was a rigid chassis ofc
14:32:00  *** Markavian` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:32:00  <drac_boy> basically 0-4-4T but sometimes there were others too..even 0-6-2T just as well
14:32:14  <burtybob> Damn, you'd think that there would be a way for the game to see that there are no longer vehicles able to carry the cargo stop it building up :/
14:32:30  <drac_boy> and yeah I know it does almost look like a seperate loco+tender .. but its really one long rigid chassis there indeed
14:32:58  <Flygon> Ahh
14:33:04  <Flygon> Sounds like something Queensland would use
14:33:30  <Flygon> They're up there with Japan in the art of "Squeezing that dead narrow gauge lemon dry"
14:33:37  <drac_boy> flygon I never could understand some of the uk steam locomotives tho
14:33:51  *** burtybob [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
14:34:11  <Flygon> Also, regarding the tram tracks in OpenTTD
14:34:16  <Flygon> They really bug me :p
14:34:28  <drac_boy> especially when they have a 0-4-4T that really have two big drive axles squashed up front and the truck is supporting most of the firebox/cab weight ... not exactly putting its full weight onto the drive axles.  I always wondered why they were not able to just use 0-6-0T terrier's
14:34:38  <drac_boy> at least some other uk locomotives I can make sense of
14:34:52  <Flygon> Melbourne trams are 1435mm gauge, and have had 1600mm in the past, it's basically the same as the rail network
14:34:58  <Flygon> And the trams are getting pretty wide :p
14:35:17  <Flygon> It's the Brits
14:35:27  <Flygon> They're not known for being sensible
14:35:37  <andythenorth> yeah
14:35:42  <Flygon> Let's face it, anyone that colonizes Australia is nuts
14:35:43  <andythenorth> we didn't invent standard guage
14:35:49  <andythenorth> gauge *
14:35:58  <andythenorth> that was a continental import
14:36:16  <drac_boy> flygon heh well at least I like these  thats an Ivatt mogul .. kinda the right balance of boiler size to the tires used .. it doesn't look big or small either
14:36:54  <drac_boy> they could use a bit better tender tho
14:37:32  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
14:37:53  <Flygon> The world should have adopted Brunel gauge D:
14:38:04  <drac_boy> flygon and of course I still can't help wondering why these little saddletank 0-4-0T are always called Pugs .... ? 0_o
14:38:26  <Flygon> Pug
14:38:31  <Flygon> Perhaps it looked... Pug-like?
14:38:38  <Flygon> It's a very British term...
14:39:06  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
14:39:23  <drac_boy> flygon mind you in at least one case the shorty 0-4-0T in usa were called duck ... because thats what they do ... only two drive axles spaced close together combined with the piston thrusts at any speed = wallop wallop wallop :)
14:40:13  <drac_boy> it goes to explain why 2-coupled locomotives were rather rare without any sort of pony or trailing axles on them
14:40:18  <Flygon> Heh
14:40:19  <drac_boy> especially the Atlantics
14:40:40  <Flygon> Coupling multiple steam locomotives here was reasonably common on longer lines
14:40:47  <Flygon> Even of different classes
14:40:48  <drac_boy> and which of flygon I'm not too surprised that usa and uk managed to use the same name .. Atlantic
14:43:23  <drac_boy> of course flygon there was one famous Atlantic locomotive over here....this
14:44:10  <Flygon> What an interesting wheel arrangement
14:44:42  <drac_boy> one of these actually took a photographer's special (it had a baggage converted into darkroom) .. and the famous thing was... since the photo of the newyork>paris flight could be developed enroute (unlike the other press companies which used planes) it was the first one to run in the papers :)
14:45:11  *** Rubidium [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:45:32  <drac_boy> did 100+mph in some places
14:46:51  *** Rubidium [] has joined #openttd
14:46:52  <drac_boy> flygon I could be wrong but I think it suited PRR for a long time till heavier longer trains finally demanded more after all the pony axles were only guiding and the trailing axle was just floating . leaving most of the traction weight over the two huge axles
14:47:40  <drac_boy> this was what replaced many of the E6's .. still more or less the same go-fast design :p
14:48:40  <drac_boy> of course you could find many photos of the K4 and GG1 standing next to each others which made sense when you considered that the electrification didn't quite go all the way corridor-wise
14:51:26  <drac_boy> flygon on a different topic heres something a bit rare for canada: 5-coupled powers .. of course most of the times they were working the BC lines which is understandable with the mountains in the way
14:51:37  <Flygon> Sorry about my delays
14:51:45  <Flygon> I was writing a wall-of-text PM
14:52:03  <Flygon> I have some life outside of railroading :p
14:52:12  <drac_boy> CN only had the usual 4-coupled powers instead but then again CN and CP always had different ideas on steam locomotive types tho ... only one of these two even had any 4-4-4's anyway :)
14:52:37  * Flygon nod
14:52:38  <drac_boy> and this is it
14:53:13  <andythenorth> planetmaker Terkhen Yexo can you recall why FIRS has a cargo table?
14:53:32  <andythenorth> afaict, industry grfs don't need a cargo table
14:54:17  <drac_boy> flygon btw if you didn't know...a long time ago it was normal to see a NYC train in canada once in a while .. whether passenger or old slow freight ;)
14:54:30  <Flygon> Define NYC train
14:54:32  <andythenorth> maybe it's used for some other feature, such as cargo payment rate adjustment?
14:54:32  <drac_boy> even the old street map for Ottawa actually marks one of the rail line as NYC :p
14:54:37  <Flygon> Do you mean subway? Or interurban?
14:55:10  <drac_boy> flygon this silly ;)
14:55:14  <drac_boy> heh heh
14:55:25  <Flygon> Ahh, gotcha
14:55:55  <drac_boy> of course theres still that one route through detriot toward sasketchwan for certain CP grain trains .. instead of heading through winnipeg .. I dunno why
14:57:05  <drac_boy> flygon anyway about uk .. I still wish I could know what would had happened had not the post-breechaxe bought on a stipution for to only build diesel-electrics alone or something like that
14:57:41  <drac_boy> these diesel-hydraulics they had were rather interesting .. even if I sometimes still can't understand their nicknames (Hymek? whats that?!)
14:58:28  *** Zeknurn [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:59:00  <andythenorth> wikipedia will tell you
14:59:09  *** Zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
14:59:24  <Flygon> Hymek?
14:59:32  <Flygon> What an...
14:59:34  <drac_boy> flygon thats what they were named
14:59:37  <Flygon> Interesting name
15:02:05  <drac_boy> flygon of course nothing would match the one single new locomotive design that could had been except for a single problem: it was steam powered which kinda flew in the face of politics who only wanted diesels
15:02:35  <Flygon> Heh
15:02:42  <Flygon> Here, you build/rebuild a steam locomotive
15:02:47  <Flygon> It gets record patronage :D
15:03:41  <Flygon> eg. a recent R-class tour ended up with 8+ carriages (the line has a normal capacity of just 6... the Swan Hill train has warnings because it can go over 6 carriages, and it tends to be longer than platforms...)
15:06:26  <drac_boy> flygon here it is:
15:06:54  <drac_boy> looks a bit like a normal diesel? well here's the thing .. its really a 0-6-6-0T steam :->
15:07:04  <drac_boy> thats why the large chassis clearances
15:07:15  <Flygon> Is it oil fired?
15:07:40  <drac_boy> coal actually
15:07:59  *** LordPixaII [~pixa@] has joined #openttd
15:08:06  <drac_boy> heres a bit more
15:09:44  <Flygon> Huh
15:09:47  <Flygon> If it was oil...
15:09:57  <Flygon> I'd have assumed MU compatibility with Diesel
15:10:08  <Flygon> (interestingly, something the R-class here have actually done)
15:10:23  <drac_boy> flygon of course there was this in usa too coal turbine (so the tender is apparent anyway)
15:10:38  <Flygon> (they did it as both a "Oh crap we ran out of water" rescue method, and for faster acceleration and more horsepower if they need it)
15:10:41  <drac_boy> had the usual problem with early technology like everyone else tho...coal dust on the turbine blades
15:10:56  <drac_boy> finally it was sidelined for good..then soon hauled like dead boxcars to a scrapper
15:11:16  <Flygon> Coal turbines doesn't really work for locomotives anyway...
15:11:35  <drac_boy> well with pulverized clean coal nowaday it might had been more reliable idea but mm yeah
15:12:35  <Flygon> I mean
15:12:39  <drac_boy> flygon heres something that had a better life tho: the first two were the turbine and a small hostler diesel engin
15:12:40  *** Knogle [] has joined #openttd
15:12:42  <Flygon> Yeah
15:12:47  <drac_boy> and the tender is...obvious the third thing ;)
15:12:59  <drac_boy> they lasted a long time till finally Bunker C was not so cheap anymore
15:13:18  <Flygon> I'd have assumed that was a gas turbine locomotive
15:13:25  <drac_boy> the small diesel engine was just to make it a lot easier to move them dead especially through the servicing tracks
15:13:43  *** Pixa [~pixa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:13:57  <Flygon> Of course
15:14:46  <drac_boy> flygon mind you tho..UP at first placed their turbines in general pool but soon after many noise complains relocated them to the bare flatlands where there was almost no population to hear these turbines which were by then running at full pitch with the long right of way in front of them :)
15:15:14  <drac_boy> and that photo there pretty much shows ... its nothing but just rolling hills as the turbine is running at full spool with the freight train ;)
15:16:04  <Flygon> Sounds like it would have been useful for Australia
15:16:15  <Flygon> Was there enough fuel capacity to last 1000km in one trip?
15:16:15  <Flygon> If so
15:16:35  <drac_boy> flygon of course there were these which actually ran through populated areas .. they must had really used some big silencers on the turbine exhaust or something I suspect :-s
15:16:50  <Flygon> Would have fit the Melbourne-Adelaide train perfectly. Goes through not many populated areas, has a (relatively) high speed track, and provides a nice intercapitol service
15:16:55  <drac_boy> one slight silly thing about them tho was...their exhaust pretty much smelled like french fries ... i dunno how true that is
15:17:07  <Flygon> Looks like a flatfaced ICE
15:17:49  <drac_boy> btw flygon .. for australia .. just replace the steam-like oil tender with a large 6-axles high capacity fuel tank car .. and I'm sure that'll fix the problem :p
15:18:36  <Flygon> Probably
15:18:48  <drac_boy> flygon and about you mentioning diesel-electric the other time before....
15:20:20  <drac_boy> thats a B-A1A unit .. and the little red label just below the cab door is for the third shoe pickup wire ... they were electro-diesel in a manner
15:21:06  <drac_boy> after all at least one of the major station had a smoke emission ban so ... the FL9 was a compromise on that .. run like a F7 everywhere else but switch to third shoe pickup with its diesel engine at idle to access these tunnelled stations
15:21:48  <drac_boy> they replaced a lot of the crummy expensive electric boxcab + road diesel locomotive swaps and duplicating crews so .. it was worth it after all ;)
15:22:39  <Flygon> Heh
15:22:44  <Flygon> That makes sense ^^
15:23:25  <drac_boy> yeah .. its the only dual-mode locomotive I know of in usa anyway .. although oversea theres like tons of examples of them in various forms tho :)
15:23:47  <Yexo> good afternoon
15:24:11  <andythenorth> lo Yexo
15:24:19  <Flygon> We lack dual mode here
15:24:20  <drac_boy> I forgot which class it was but uk actually had one of these older emu that actually was dual-mode as in either third rail pickup or overhead pantograph .. as I can recall it was something to do with most of the route being overhead wire except for at least one tunnel which had too much clearance restriction to make it work and so was third railed instead
15:24:36  <drac_boy> I think it was like 3xx or something .. anyone from uk know which one I'm thinking of
15:24:41  <Flygon> I know the Eurostar was dual mode
15:24:58  <Flygon> Because the old route used 750V 3rd rail in the UK
15:25:32  <andythenorth>
15:25:34  <drac_boy> flygon btw it was a bit too conventional that one of the station the emu had to stop at was exactly where the switchover took place .. so ... yeah train comes to stop .. doors open .. then you see the pantographs dropping .. then the door closes .. and emu rushes into the tunnel :)
15:25:45  <drac_boy> no need for an on-fly switchover
15:26:02  <drac_boy> ah thanks andythenorth
15:27:29  <Flygon> Hmm
15:27:42  <Flygon> Dual-mode would only be useful for urban tunnels here...
15:27:49  <Flygon> Except, the voltage is only 1500V DC
15:27:54  <Flygon> And the substations are very weak
15:27:56  <drac_boy> flygon if you want to confuse your own brain on voltages ... just take a quick look at the london underground rails .. four of them in fact .. and at least one of these is negative too :P
15:27:59  <Flygon> Locomotives would blow them up
15:28:20  <Flygon> So if a train is ever accidentally routed into a tunnel?
15:28:26  <Flygon> You go very very slowly :B
15:28:36  <Flygon> Don't wanna deafen everyone!
15:29:02  <drac_boy> flygon didn't we talk about old verus new locomotive? well one of the problem is related to "softwares"...
15:29:28  <drac_boy> the new one always want to shut down as soon as the overhead voltage sags .. then cool off a bit before trying energize again ... makes things difficult if its slippery rails >_<
15:30:15  <drac_boy> but the old one without a cpu more or less .. they could not care if 25VAC was actually only 22VAC .. they'll just keep turning the traction motors
15:30:44  <Flygon> Heh
15:30:50  <Flygon> Same here
15:31:05  <drac_boy> of course theres always a limit for don't want to try draw a 1500DC power at less than 900
15:31:09  <Flygon> Much of Victoria's electrical fleet has very very old tech
15:31:12  <Flygon> On both trams and trains
15:31:30  <Flygon> I wouldn't be surprised to see tram routes going from 400V to 800-900V
15:31:38  <Flygon> Norminal voltage is 600V
15:32:00  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
15:32:29  <drac_boy> flygon btw on one of the Milwaukee mountain section it used to be trains were timetabled more or less so one was coasting downhill with full regenerative braking .. which was feeding back into the overhead line for that guzzling unit on other side grinding uphill
15:32:53  <drac_boy> not very common for that sort of 'electrical' timetabing to happen
15:33:04  <supermop> ok have power
15:33:17  <Flygon> Heh
15:33:32  <Flygon> Makes sense
15:33:39  <Flygon> Listen, I gotta be a bit busy, sorry x:
15:33:59  <drac_boy> flygon it makes sense tho.. because THESE were the locomotives in question
15:34:22  <drac_boy> sometimes had two of them on one train so that was 16 traction motors ... lot of juice :)
15:34:44  <drac_boy> anyway flygon I need to start lunch soon anyway so I think I'll just go now
15:34:47  <drac_boy> see you another time ok? :)
15:35:00  <Flygon> Have fun
15:35:06  <Flygon> Yep
15:35:07  *** drac_boy [] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!]
15:38:17  *** LordAro [] has joined #openttd
15:39:22  <LordAro> afternnons
15:41:06  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
15:41:59  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:44:44  <supermop> yo
15:48:03  *** Lord_Aro [] has joined #openttd
15:48:03  *** LordAro is now known as Guest4351
15:48:03  *** Lord_Aro is now known as LordAro
15:48:10  *** Guest4351 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:59:58  *** Kurimus [] has joined #openttd
16:02:04  *** Hyronymus [] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus]
16:21:27  *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@] has joined #openttd
16:25:17  <DanMacK> Hey all
16:29:42  *** oskari89 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:30:24  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
16:34:45  *** Knogle [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:34:54  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
16:35:33  *** Knogle [] has joined #openttd
16:36:37  <supermop> hi dan
16:39:17  <DanMacK> Hey
16:39:33  *** chester_ [] has joined #openttd
16:39:44  *** LordAro [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:41:08  <supermop> how's it going?
16:41:13  <supermop> drawing boats
16:41:14  <supermop> ?
16:43:06  *** pugi [] has joined #openttd
16:45:03  <DanMacK> Occasionally
16:45:30  <DanMacK> May start some early industry versions for firs soon
16:46:22  <DanMacK> And I want to do some sailing ships for FISH
16:46:48  *** Linkforsoad [~Linkforso@2001:470:96a8:0:adcc:a7fe:5f18:71ed] has joined #openttd
16:47:16  <DanMacK> I like starting really early for some reason
16:52:24  *** dada78641 [] has joined #openttd
16:57:24  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:57:44  *** Linkforsoad [~Linkforso@2001:470:96a8:0:adcc:a7fe:5f18:71ed] has left #openttd []
16:59:15  *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:59:52  *** sla_ro|master [slaco@] has joined #openttd
17:00:00  <supermop> neat
17:00:07  <supermop> oops
17:01:26  <NGC3982> Evening.
17:07:17  *** dada__ [] has joined #openttd
17:08:56  *** NataS [] has joined #openttd
17:09:39  *** dada78641 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:11:55  *** roland [] has joined #openttd
17:12:33  *** roland is now known as Guest4356
17:16:04  *** Nat_aS [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:16:35  *** Guest4199 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:22:57  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
17:32:01  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
17:33:03  *** LordPixaII [~pixa@] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 240 seconds.]
17:36:24  *** Pixa [~pixa@] has joined #openttd
17:40:54  *** Pixa [~pixa@] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 240 seconds.]
17:41:32  *** Pixa [~pixa@] has joined #openttd
17:43:17  *** LordPixaII [~pixa@] has joined #openttd
17:45:01  *** kais58 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:46:55  *** KingPixaIII [] has joined #openttd
17:49:38  *** Pixa [~pixa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:53:18  *** LordPixaII [~pixa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:55:03  *** LordAro [] has joined #openttd
17:57:34  <LordAro> ssh is awesome :)
18:01:39  *** Supercheese [~Password4@] has joined #openttd
18:02:29  <NGC3982> Indeed.
18:02:30  <andythenorth> :o
18:02:41  <andythenorth> my cargo template script worked first time I ran it
18:02:44  <andythenorth> unheard of :P
18:02:47  <NGC3982> :D
18:03:56  <LordAro> dat feel.
18:07:50  <andythenorth> meh
18:07:57  <andythenorth> I hate creating dicts of dicts
18:08:00  <andythenorth> messy
18:09:08  <LordAro> but sometimes necessary
18:11:44  <andythenorth> hmm
18:27:50  *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:2865:5942:3066:36de] has joined #openttd
18:27:54  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
18:29:36  *** roadt [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:38:09  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
18:51:30  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
18:56:58  * NGC3982 notes Andys love for small Volvo trucks on FIRS industries.
18:57:04  <andythenorth> ?
18:57:12  <NGC3982> They are everywhere
18:57:33  <NGC3982>
18:57:35  <NGC3982> :D
18:57:41  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has joined #openttd
18:58:01  <andythenorth> oh loaders
18:58:04  <andythenorth> and cranes
18:58:22  <NGC3982> Indeed
18:58:25  <NGC3982> They are nice
18:58:25  *** kais58 [] has joined #openttd
18:58:34  <NGC3982> That's why i also love CHIPS
18:59:32  <NGC3982> andythenorth: I was thinking; Can the number of tiles (Read: The size of the industry) be changed during gameplay?
18:59:40  <andythenorth> no
18:59:58  <NGC3982> It would be cool to see industries "expand" together with production.
19:00:13  <NGC3982> I guess one could make a tileset that's transparent at first.
19:02:21  <Supercheese> Yeah, you'd have to "reserve" a bunch of plain tiles around the industry first
19:02:36  <NGC3982> Yeah, that's not neat.
19:02:47  <Supercheese> and then change those industry tiles to buildings/whatever as time progresses
19:02:55  <NGC3982> Or: Yeah, that might not be neat.
19:03:03  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:03:03  <NGC3982> Supercheese: Time, or production.
19:03:20  <Supercheese> well, production increase usually requires time increase ;)
19:03:33  <Supercheese> but yeah
19:03:38  <NGC3982> You think to little of quantum processes!
19:03:41  <NGC3982> :P
19:05:14  <Supercheese> Hmmm, do industry tiles even have access to the production_level variable?
19:06:12  <andythenorth> yes
19:06:16  <andythenorth> tiles can access most things
19:06:45  <Supercheese> Then yeah, the "reserved" plain tiles upgrading to buildings/stuff based on production_level would probably work
19:06:48  * NGC3982 thinks of crazy ass graphics.
19:06:59  <Supercheese> or hell, the base industry itself could all upgrade
19:07:38  <NGC3982> Supercheese: Indeed.
19:07:58  <NGC3982> Though, reserved tiles around an empty industry sounds less fun.
19:08:12  <Supercheese> Yeah, they'd need to be obviously fenced or something
19:08:22  <Supercheese> telling the user "ya can't build here buddy"
19:08:27  <supermop> NGC3982 and Supercheese; use fields
19:08:35  <NGC3982> Higgs fields?
19:08:44  <supermop> i know there are issues with fields
19:09:05  <supermop> but if there could be various sprites and sizes, fields would work
19:09:31  <supermop> that way you could also cut through the non-core parts of an industry at high cost
19:09:38  <supermop> just like with farms
19:09:45  <NGC3982> Uhm, allright.
19:09:52  <NGC3982> Tell me more of this fields thingy.
19:09:56  <Supercheese> I think there can only be one kind of farm field...
19:10:08  <supermop> cow pastures and forests would be an obvious choice
19:10:20  <supermop> Supercheese: currently i believe yes
19:10:27  <NGC3982> To ignore game mechanics, using a similar system like town growth would be kind of cool, i guess.
19:10:38  <NGC3982> Wich does seem to check if a tile is empty or not.
19:10:50  <NGC3982> If it's empty and production rises, use the tile.
19:10:56  <supermop> but you could also say small fields at a steel mill
19:11:09  <NGC3982> But i guess that's a wee bit away from logical game mechanics.
19:11:17  <Supercheese> yeah, I'd prefer to work within existing specs
19:11:25  <supermop> imagine the furnace is a like the barn, and the stacks of steel are small little fields
19:11:41  <andythenorth> search forums
19:11:49  <andythenorth> frosch123 had at least one patch for this
19:11:55  <andythenorth> there was a version of FIRS for it
19:11:58  <andythenorth> doesn't work
19:12:01  <Supercheese> oh?
19:12:31  <supermop> however even a low production farm covers the same area with fields as a high production one, so you wouldn't get growth with production
19:12:34  <Supercheese> Oh ya:
19:12:41  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:12:59  <andythenorth>
19:13:03  <andythenorth>
19:13:06  <andythenorth>
19:13:20  <andythenorth> arbitrary blocks of fields
19:13:43  <Supercheese> no control over size/placement of fields?
19:13:43  <NGC3982> Ooh
19:13:50  <andythenorth> yes control
19:13:55  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
19:14:00  * Supercheese is still reading through the thread
19:14:26  <supermop> i also thought specialized towns would be cool
19:14:53  <Supercheese> doesn't TaI have specialized towns?
19:15:17  <andythenorth> yes
19:15:42  <supermop> these would have to be much more specialized
19:16:03  <supermop> with an industry being a town
19:16:12  * NGC3982 thinks about making his first industry NewGRF a FIRS add-on.
19:16:31  <NGC3982> A Ninja Industry. Deliver everything to it.
19:16:33  <supermop> a town of that type only builds houses that are industry related tiles or buildings
19:16:50  <andythenorth> NGC3982: I present to you the spec: 3 input cargos
19:17:08  <supermop> with its input cargoes being its town growth cargoes
19:17:12  * NGC3982 takes a peak.
19:17:56  <NGC3982> andythenorth: Oh wait, what.
19:18:08  <Supercheese> Hey, we needed that mountain. Don't take it! ;)
19:18:11  * NGC3982 actually thought Andy was refering to a parameter.
19:31:42  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
19:32:27  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:35:07  <planetmaker> good evening
19:35:33  <Supercheese> (variable_1 > varaiable_2) should evaluate to 0 or 1, no?
19:36:12  <planetmaker> if > is a comparator and not an operator, yes
19:37:15  <planetmaker> At work I write in a language where x > y means to set all x to the value of y of x is greater than y
19:38:00  <planetmaker> s/of/if/g
19:38:17  <Supercheese> Well, in NML 'tis a comparison operator
19:38:39  <Supercheese> pretty sure I just had my logic backwards, as usual -_-
19:40:08  <andythenorth> lo planetmaker
19:40:37  <planetmaker> hey andythenorth :-)
19:41:06  <planetmaker> andythenorth, wrt your question (much) earlier: does a CTT help to not fix cargos to a cargo slot but keep that more flexible? (Probably not... )
19:41:37  <andythenorth> don't think so, the cargo action 0 has the label anyway
19:42:14  *** cyph3r [] has joined #openttd
19:46:45  <Supercheese> Hmmm, either I'm doing something horribly wrong, or (age_in_days >= max_age_in_days) is not evaluating to zero or one...
19:49:11  *** drac_boy [] has joined #openttd
19:49:23  <drac_boy> hi
19:54:20  *** kais58 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:22:06  *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@] has joined #openttd
20:25:48  <Terkhen> hello
20:28:06  *** cyph3r [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
20:28:15  <planetmaker> hi Terkhen
20:29:56  <DanMacK> Hello all
20:31:45  <planetmaker> hi DanMacK
20:50:11  *** Pixa [] has joined #openttd
20:52:24  <kero> planetmaker : I have a question, if you can
20:52:59  *** Flygon [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20:53:11  *** Flygon [] has joined #openttd
20:53:31  <kero> i'm trying to change the introduction dates of the buildings in TTRS, but I can't find any documentation about long format dates. doestn tell anything about it
20:54:14  <kero> so, where is it possible to find that kind of info ?
20:55:18  <kero> (I ask you because I've seen that you where involved in the renewal of this grf, but if somebody else can tell, I would be grateful :)
20:56:03  *** KingPixaIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:57:26  <planetmaker> kero, it has not a separate description, but it's there in the overview table. Properties 0x21 and 0x22
20:57:40  <planetmaker> same link as you gave
20:58:01  <planetmaker> generally in nfo specs: always look at the table. It nearly always has entries only found there
20:58:14  <planetmaker> as their explanation needs not more than fits there
20:58:21  *** Zeknurn [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:58:37  <kero> ok, thank you
20:58:59  <kero> in case I use property 0x21, should I also use the 0x22 together ?
20:59:03  *** Zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
20:59:50  * Alberth guesses you need to use them together
21:00:07  <kero> i'll make a try anyway
21:02:26  *** Flygon_ [] has joined #openttd
21:02:27  *** Flygon [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:02:43  *** sla_ro|vista [slaco@] has joined #openttd
21:06:11  *** sla_ro|master [slaco@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:06:46  <planetmaker> makes sense to use them, yes
21:07:05  <planetmaker> kero, what's your plan for building introduction dates?
21:07:24  <planetmaker> wanna fix the introduction date of buildings so that the earliest ones are introduced at the same date (that'll be useful)?
21:07:43  <planetmaker> then please send me a patch (or add it to the issue tracker of ttrs).
21:07:50  <kero> not all exactly at the same date, but mostly
21:07:51  <planetmaker> should then become a new version thereof
21:08:02  <planetmaker> kero, the earliest should be *exactly* at the same date
21:08:08  <kero> the idea is to retrieve all the bulding 1920-> before until 1850
21:08:20  <kero> except 2/3, like the firehouse
21:08:27  <kero> I already tried with one
21:08:32  <kero> the churche
21:08:34  <planetmaker> as when you introduce them all at the same time, they all will be available from *any* date prior to that
21:08:55  <kero> yes, but for some of them it's incoherent :)
21:08:59  <planetmaker> if one building is the earliest alone *only* that will be available at times prior to its introduction
21:09:08  <planetmaker> (if people want to play earlier than the set defines)
21:09:21  <kero> these one and the other GFX houses
21:09:25  <kero> I just tried
21:09:26  <planetmaker> the code unfortunately is fugly nfo, de-compiled... :S
21:10:00  <kero> take the case: i just changed only one house, the church. I started in 1920, and I had all the OpenGFX + the church
21:10:14  <kero> so, i will take but nearly all
21:10:17  *** Zeknurn` [] has joined #openttd
21:10:35  <kero> yes, the code is hard to read
21:11:02  <kero> planetmaker : I will be happy to share the changed code
21:12:50  *** Zeknurn [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:13:16  <kero> (if I succeed in that mess)
21:13:17  <planetmaker> you know, yes?
21:13:23  <kero> yes sure
21:13:26  <planetmaker> k :-)
21:13:36  <planetmaker> yes, mess is the proper description
21:14:03  <planetmaker> I can't say that my (and foobar's) additions are anything else than a hack to remove the industry component when FIRS is around ;-)
21:15:46  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like my hack of alpine :)
21:16:25  <planetmaker> similar, yes. But I was allowed to release it :-P
21:17:00  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the copyright law allows you to release modifications "for compatibility with other programs"
21:17:32  <kero> Still, I have a question :p
21:17:41  <kero> nforenum gives me : Unexpected EOF: Unused CargoIDs detected for feature 7.
21:17:52  <kero> means that it didn't check the file entirely ?
21:18:14  <planetmaker> which nforenum version?
21:18:16  <kero> (the error is not related to my change, apparently)
21:18:34  <kero> well, the one which comes with the last grfcodec
21:18:38  <kero> (6.1 ?)
21:18:39  *** NataS [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:18:40  <planetmaker> and no, it only means there's unused cargoIDs.
21:18:49  <Eddi|zuHause> "the last" is not a version
21:19:21  <kero> 6.0.1
21:19:31  <planetmaker> well, yes, I get that error, too
21:19:50  <planetmaker> on unchanged repository
21:19:51  <kero> actually, I'm working on the last nightly that I decompiled
21:19:58  <planetmaker> de-compiled?
21:20:00  <kero> (nightly-42)
21:20:04  <planetmaker> why de-compile?
21:20:22  <kero> because initially I wasn't sure about how to work with the source
21:20:32  <planetmaker> get mercurial and get a checkout ;-)
21:20:52  <kero> well those are things I still need to learn :-)
21:21:27  <planetmaker> hm, yes. it's some learning curve, granted :-)
21:21:37  <planetmaker> what OS do you run?
21:21:45  <kero> linux
21:21:51  <planetmaker> ah, then it's easy :-)
21:21:56  <kero> i guess, yes
21:22:01  <planetmaker> apt-get install mercurial
21:22:05  <planetmaker> apt-get install gcc
21:22:13  <kero> pacman -S, actually :-)
21:22:15  <planetmaker> apt-get install grfcodec
21:22:30  <planetmaker> or whatever your distro's package manger is called :-)
21:22:36  <planetmaker> (and package names may vary, too)
21:22:37  <kero> grfcodec is in the debian packages ? oO
21:22:41  <planetmaker> yes
21:23:06  <planetmaker> most linux distros have it
21:23:15  <planetmaker> maybe openttd-grfcodec
21:23:38  <planetmaker> suse (+co). debian, redhet + derivatives, all have it
21:23:46  <kero> oh yes there is a build for Archlinux
21:24:23  <kero> but unsupported
21:24:25  <kero> doesn't matter
21:24:37  <planetmaker> you'll also need awk, make, sed... but that's pretty standard
21:25:23  <kero> for now, I just took the -linux version on the openttd mirrors
21:25:32  <kero> it's a statically compiled version ?
21:25:41  <planetmaker> that's fine. And likely more up to date ;-) Yes
21:25:51  <kero> well, it will do the job
21:26:32  <planetmaker> I have anyway a checkout of all those repos and a symlind from /usr/bin to the binary in that repo ;-)
21:26:38  <planetmaker> *symlink
21:27:04  *** kais58 [] has joined #openttd
21:27:39  <planetmaker> kero, if you got mercurial and a clone of the repo, a simple call of 'make' in the repo directory itself then should build the newgrf
21:27:56  <kero> that's what I already did with the 3.13 source
21:27:58  <kero> but
21:28:08  <kero> i had a great great lot of warnings
21:28:12  <kero> not just some
21:28:15  <kero> but thousands
21:28:19  <planetmaker> eh?
21:28:25  <kero> so I wans't sure I was doing it correctly
21:28:51  <planetmaker> is what it looks for me
21:28:55  <kero> yes, un unarchived the source, launched the "make" from the directory
21:29:02  <planetmaker> with nforenum / grfcodec r945
21:29:12  <planetmaker> oh... from the tar ball?
21:29:18  <kero> wait
21:30:01  *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:30:22  <kero> wait
21:30:25  <kero>
21:30:30  <kero> that's the link
21:30:52  <planetmaker> ah... I guess I didn't try the source tar ball for ages...
21:31:07  <planetmaker> install mercurial and get the versioned source. also easier to provide patches then :-)
21:31:09  <kero> I used. I untarzipped the think, made the "make", but i got thousands of warnings
21:31:12  *** Nat_aS [] has joined #openttd
21:31:15  <kero> ok, I'll try that
21:31:52  <planetmaker> and easier to revert or to keep different test patches which somewhat work
21:32:05  <planetmaker> you won't regret getting used to a version control system :-)
21:32:20  <kero> I don't doubt about it
21:32:48  <kero> but I never found really time to hack seriously, so I never took time to watch that better
21:33:09  <planetmaker> :-) vcs save time when you try to hack anything ;-)
21:33:37  <kero> you can do the kjob with mercurial or git indifferently on the repositories ?
21:33:48  <NGC3982>
21:33:58  <kero> or are those utils related to a specific structure of the vcs
21:33:58  <planetmaker> kjob?
21:34:02  <NGC3982> Are these types of ships realistic for sand or stone shipping?
21:34:07  <kero> s/kjob/job/ :)
21:34:14  <Nat_aS> Hey, anybody here using Ubuntu 12.04?
21:34:22  <Nat_aS> I just updated to 11, and I don't like unity
21:34:27  <Nat_aS> 12 lets you switch back right?
21:34:31  <planetmaker> :) well, the answer is a clear yes and no
21:34:47  <planetmaker> it's easiest to use the vcs which the repository is from
21:34:55  <kero> ok
21:35:09  <planetmaker> both mercurial and git have some extensions which allow to use repos from other VCS. But it has - of course - some limits
21:35:47  <planetmaker> as all data need be converted on the fly when pulling info. And possibly when pushing back
21:38:18  <kero> ok, no more so much warnings with the new source :-)
21:38:20  <planetmaker> but please tell me, which warnings /errors did you get when building from tar bundle?
21:38:29  <planetmaker> hm, interesting :-)
21:38:46  <planetmaker> as I get the same output when building from the tar bundle as I get from mercurial repo
21:39:06  *** sla_ro|vista [slaco@] has quit [Quit: DANGER is OFFLINE DANGER]
21:41:23  <planetmaker> and seeing r42 of ttrs... that might be worth a release on its own... it fixes already the early house issue I mentioned initially... I wasn't aware (anymore) that foobar fixed that. at least somewhat
21:41:55  <planetmaker> that said, I absolutely don't mind if someone (like you) wants to have a closer look at things... this set is worth it
21:42:54  <planetmaker> (otherwise I wouldn't have touched de-compiled nfo code anyway ;-) )
21:43:56  <kero> :)
21:44:10  <kero> I love that set and I love starting early.
21:44:14  <kero> So ...
21:44:33  <planetmaker> :-)
21:44:56  <planetmaker> kero, try whether your issue is solved with r42 actually before you spend too much time
21:44:58  <kero> anyway, I wanted discover a little bit how grf are since a lot of time
21:45:08  <kero> I will
21:45:17  <planetmaker> it might fix at least part of your issue
21:45:18  <kero> I'm not gonna change all before I know the change works
21:45:32  <kero> ah, that you mean
21:45:36  <kero> I already checked
21:45:37  <planetmaker> and r42 is nowhere else except in the repo and as nightly on the devzone's bundle server
21:45:43  <kero> it don't
21:45:46  <planetmaker> ok
21:46:18  <planetmaker> I was thinking that it *might* be worth to completely re-code the set in NML
21:46:31  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
21:46:40  <planetmaker> if you plan to do many changes, it might be even easier and faster, looking at mid-term or long-term results
21:48:07  <kero> It would certainly. I don't like specially that simili-assembler
21:48:20  <Yexo> would be nice to have a house project done in NML too :)
21:49:36  <kero> Oh, I still have a question. grf2html helped me a lot. is it possible to use it on any local project ?
21:49:51  <Yexo> sure
21:50:16  <planetmaker> kero, while I can't do that currently myself due to time constraints (the nml re-code), I would certainly be happy to give advice, if you'd tackle it
21:50:25  <frosch123> it only works on nml 0.2 generated files though
21:50:38  *** chester_ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:50:41  <frosch123> unless you take a route over grfcodec to convert it into a container 1 grf
21:50:44  <kero> planetmaker : thank you
21:50:54  <kero> I find that NML project extremely interesting
21:51:09  <kero> I think it could potentially bring a lot of people to coding more
21:51:16  <planetmaker> I'm sure others, like yexo, will similarily be happy to be of help with advice :-)
21:51:30  <Yexo> yep :)
21:51:32  <planetmaker> kero, which is... the point of it :-)
21:51:47  <planetmaker> I can't thank yexo enough for it :-)
21:52:14  <kero> it was a big bog work i guess
21:52:17  <kero> rha
21:52:24  <planetmaker> it still is. It's not finished
21:52:24  <kero> apparently I should sleep more
21:52:31  <kero> "big" :)
21:52:50  <planetmaker> it's missing stations and bridge support
21:52:59  <kero> is it possible, for instance, to decompile with it something like ttrs to start a recoding ?
21:53:09  <planetmaker> unfortunately not
21:53:45  <planetmaker> except maybe by special request... there might be some de-compile patch somewhere. But the results are not exactly nicely documented code either (and how could it ever be)?
21:53:49  <kero> ok, so your next big poject, is a sort of nfo2nml utility :-)
21:55:09  <planetmaker> no. rather grf2nml. But next big rather is finishing support for all features in nml ;-)
21:57:06  <kero> good job anyway
22:04:45  <andythenorth> this is ugly, but is it wrong?
22:04:47  <andythenorth> Alberth: ^
22:05:39  <Alberth> what does it complain about?
22:05:42  <NGC3982> Doesn't look that ugly?
22:05:52  <andythenorth> Alberth: complains about nothing, works perfectly :)
22:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause> why not simply use "alcohol.cargo" in the code?
22:06:19  <andythenorth> that was the alternative...
22:06:36  <andythenorth> looked a bit odd
22:06:41  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not wrong and not ugly, but ... strange
22:06:43  <Alberth> oh, so it's not wrong in the usual way :)
22:07:14  <andythenorth> no just weird
22:08:14  <Eddi|zuHause>
22:08:28  <Alberth> the only thing you can see as 'wrong' is that "from" is not a cargo, but something that has a cargo
22:08:55  <andythenorth> yes
22:09:49  <Alberth> you may want to rename to  "cargos.food_description" or so, depending on how much you don't like your current solution
22:09:54  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe you should consider the automatically-add-to-list-in-constructor idea to avoid things like this
22:10:14  <Alberth> ugh
22:10:19  <andythenorth> he
22:10:23  <andythenorth> alberth made me take that out :)
22:10:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't know why :=)
22:11:03  <andythenorth> this is less weird, apart from line 42
22:11:14  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: I laughed.
22:12:13  <andythenorth> the weirdness is that I have cargo.cargo :P
22:12:34  <andythenorth> because I can't be bothered to rename some objects when copy-pasting
22:12:35  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: map(lambda x: x.cargo, [...]) :p
22:12:36  <Alberth> yeah, you have some naming problem
22:13:07  <andythenorth> laziness
22:13:14  <Eddi|zuHause> s/x/module/g
22:14:11  *** Hyronymus [] has joined #openttd
22:14:41  <andythenorth> oh well
22:14:43  <andythenorth> it works
22:14:56  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what makes me itch is that you list every cargo multiple times to get to that list
22:15:05  <andythenorth> yeah
22:15:08  <andythenorth> I dislike that strongly
22:15:30  <Eddi|zuHause> twice in the import, then once again in the list. not even speaking about the definition in the original modules
22:15:42  <andythenorth> there is another way I could do it
22:15:56  <andythenorth> the industries don't bother with any of that
22:16:12  <andythenorth> one import causes them to be rendered, no more work needed
22:16:18  <planetmaker> kero, I found grf2nml output:
22:17:18  <Yexo> wrong link?
22:18:19  <Eddi|zuHause> firs was converted from NFO to NML
22:18:24  <planetmaker> Yexo, wrong?
22:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause> it's just missing context
22:18:43  <kero> that's more readable
22:18:43  *** Zeknurn` [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
22:19:10  <planetmaker> Yexo, kero asked for whether there's a grf2nml tool. I answered "not (yet), but..." ;-)
22:19:24  <kero> I have an error, trying to build the ttrs from cvs-sources:
22:19:35  * andythenorth considers something horrible and global :P
22:20:14  <kero> well a such file is a good basics to start with :)
22:20:19  <planetmaker> what's the output of python --version
22:20:26  <kero> instead of rewriting an entire code
22:21:02  *** Zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
22:21:35  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: compromise, don't add to the list in the constructor, but explicitly add to the list in the cargo modules
22:21:47  <Yexo> planetmaker: I misread, I rad "grf2html" output, sorry
22:22:02  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how do I do that without making the list global?
22:22:09  <andythenorth> it's what I want to do :P
22:22:20  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
22:22:47  <planetmaker> I'm not exactly sure how you ended up there, kero ...
22:22:55  <Eddi|zuHause> create the list in cargos/
22:23:01  <andythenorth> ah
22:24:29  <kero> planetmaker : that's just the directory where i did the hg clone http://hg.etcetc/ttrs
22:25:24  <Eddi|zuHause> kero: python version?
22:26:03  <planetmaker> python 2.5 ... 2.7 is only acceptable, I guess
22:26:06  <Eddi|zuHause> it's the kind of error i'd expect from trying to run python2 code in python3
22:26:09  <NGC3982> What's up with changing keyboard layout in Windows and stable 1.2.2?
22:26:15  <Eddi|zuHause> or python < 2.x
22:26:35  <NGC3982> If i change the layout (using alt+shift to Swedish from English), the game ignores it.
22:26:48  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: the keyboard layout is in the language file
22:27:10  <NGC3982> I could change it from Swedish to English, but not back?
22:27:12  <Eddi|zuHause> (the OSD keyboard, that is)
22:27:43  <Yexo> NGC3982: does restarting openttd help?
22:27:47  <andythenorth> defined cargo_list in
22:27:55  <andythenorth> can't get it into (e.g.)
22:28:04  <andythenorth> do I need to explicitly import it?
22:28:07  <NGC3982> Yexo: Ill try it.
22:28:37  <kero> Eddi|zuHause : I have 2.7 and 3.3
22:28:38  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you have imports in __init__, do make the list before those, then import __init__ in the cargo modules
22:28:53  <NGC3982> Yexo: It worked.
22:29:10  <Eddi|zuHause> kero: my guess is that it tries 3.3 by default, when it should use 2.7
22:29:15  <kero> Eddi|zuHause : supposing it tries to use python 3.3 instead of 2.7, could be a probnlem ?
22:29:23  <kero> ok :)
22:29:28  <kero> will have to search for that
22:29:29  <andythenorth> hmm
22:29:34  <andythenorth> I think I have to sleep on this :P
22:29:49  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if you want to patch it, feel free ;)
22:29:56  <andythenorth> it works fine, but it's ugly
22:30:25  <NGC3982> Yexo: Kind of confusing, though. If i re-create the problem, it's all the same.
22:31:08  <Yexo> did the english->swedish change work while openttd was running?
22:31:51  <NGC3982> Yes, it did. Everything except OpenTTD responded correctly to it.
22:32:45  <andythenorth> good night
22:32:47  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
22:32:52  <Yexo> you could try switching from sdl to the win32 video driver or the other way around
22:33:00  <kero> Eddi|zuHause : thank you for finding the problem. I have no problem using the version 2.7
22:33:37  <NGC3982> Yexo: Me?
22:33:47  <Yexo> NGC3982: yes
22:34:32  * NGC3982 needs to google a bit to deduce what that ment.
22:35:09  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: the -v option to openttd.exe
22:35:33  <Yexo> in the openttd config file thers is an option videodriver
22:35:35  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly needs a recompile
22:35:43  <NGC3982> Ah, i see.
22:35:55  <NGC3982> This can actually be related to a video driver?
22:35:57  <Eddi|zuHause> openttd -h should list the video drivers
22:36:16  <Yexo> the video driver also handles input
22:36:17  <Eddi|zuHause> "video driver" is a very loose term in openttd's code
22:36:47  <Eddi|zuHause> it used to run the actual game loop, not sure if that is solved meanwhile
22:36:52  <Yexo> if it works with the win32 video driver but not with sdl, the bug could be in sdl and not in our code, if it's the other way around we probably miss code to support it
22:37:13  <NGC3982> I see.
22:37:16  <NGC3982> What is SDL?
22:37:36  <Yexo> Simple DirectMedia Layer
22:38:00  <Yexo> it's a framework that can be used on many OSes which provides API calls for opening windows, drawing in them etc.
22:38:07  <NGC3982> Ok
22:38:21  <NGC3982> And i guess that is the default usage
22:38:27  <NGC3982> Thingy..
22:38:36  <Yexo> I'm not sure what the default is under windows
22:38:41  <NGC3982> Ill try.
22:41:04  <NGC3982> When using the Command line help, it tells me i'm using a Win32 GDI Driver, a Dedicated Video Driver and a Null Video Driver
22:41:36  <Yexo> ok,thanks for testing
22:41:42  <NGC3982> I guess i should start the game with "-v win32"?
22:41:43  <Yexo> I had hoped SDL would be available, but apparently not
22:42:01  <Yexo> NGC3982: no, that's default
22:42:14  <Terkhen> to my knowledge on windows win32 is the default
22:42:23  <NGC3982> I see. Would SDL be the default if it was installed?
22:42:29  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
22:42:30  <Yexo> the dedicated video driver is meant for dedicated servers, so won't actually get a gui at all. The null video driver does even less, it just runs the game locally for some time
22:42:42  <andythenorth> hmm, this is kind of same problem as I have for FIRS
22:42:53  <Yexo> it's not a question of installation, it needs to be compiled into the executable
22:43:01  <andythenorth> glob.glob() is rooted to location makefile runs from though
22:43:07  <NGC3982> Yexo: Hm, i see. Is there any other way for me to test this?
22:43:14  <NGC3982> If it needs to be tested, that is.
22:43:27  * andythenorth should sleep, babies will wake me up soon :P
22:43:30  *** andythenorth [] has quit []
22:43:31  <Yexo> not easily, but it's not that important to test it now
22:43:32  <NGC3982> By the way: "AIAI (v87): Automatic Idiot AI Version iota (87)."
22:43:47  <NGC3982> German humour is german,
22:43:50  <Yexo> if you can reproduce it every time you could open a bug report at to make sure it doesn't get forgotten
22:47:11  *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@] has joined #openttd
22:54:13  <Terkhen> good night
22:57:36  <NGC3982> Yexo: Ill make sure to add it.
23:00:43  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
23:05:10  *** supermop [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:06:39  *** tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
23:06:42  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
23:07:33  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:07:53  *** LordAro [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:08:06  <NGC3982> Yexo: I have found the error.
23:08:10  <NGC3982> And it's not OpenTTD related.
23:09:15  <NGC3982> After (oddly enough) killing Explorer.exe and starting it again, changing layout with OpenTTD active works.
23:09:18  <NGC3982> :E
23:11:27  *** Hyronymus [] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus]
23:12:48  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:24:30  *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
23:24:42  * Flygon shovels drac_boy
23:38:13  *** Elukka [] has quit []
23:40:50  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:43:30  *** MinchinWeb [] has joined #openttd
23:47:58  * drac_boy chunks flygon into the firebox as if it was just lumps of coal
23:48:02  <drac_boy> HEH how're you?
23:48:59  * Flygon ends up pushed up through the various pipes of the engine, and is stuck in the vent of the main chimeny
23:49:01  * Flygon is stick
23:49:03  <Flygon> stuck*
23:49:04  <Flygon> Heya
23:49:08  <drac_boy> heh heh
23:51:52  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: so you haven't actually found the error, it just doesn't occur anymore
23:51:55  <drac_boy> how're you mr.late-in-australia?
23:53:31  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:57:08  <Flygon> It's 10:56AM Sunday
23:57:10  <Flygon> I'm okay

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk