Config
Log for #openttd on 14th November 2012:
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07:50:19  <Terkhen> good morning
07:54:08  *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
07:54:12  <Flygon> G'day mate
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08:18:39  <planetmaker> moin
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08:40:14  <Eddi|zuHause> baaa way too early...
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08:57:04  <planetmaker> good morning, Eddi|zuHause :-)
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10:21:44  <__ln__> http://pixus-ru.blogspot.fi/2012/11/hack-any-skype-account-in-6-easy-steps.html
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10:39:15  <Flygon> ffffffff
10:39:15  <Flygon> wow
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12:51:57  <NGC3982> Fantastic.
12:52:04  <NGC3982> It's a good day for traffic in Sweden.
12:57:14  <__ln__> Driving on the left side again?
12:58:00  <NGC3982> At least i do.
13:01:00  <Flygon> Real men drive on the left side
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13:48:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the left side is not the right side
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13:58:45  <drac_boy> hi
14:07:51  <V453000> !getsave https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/StableNUTS37.sav
14:07:53  <V453000> uhm
14:07:55  <V453000> yeah
14:07:57  <V453000> sorry :)
14:09:49  <drac_boy> :p ?
14:11:24  <Eddi|zuHause> where's glx, anyway? :)
14:11:33  <V453000> just a command to get a map on the server
14:11:37  <V453000> obviously wrong channel :)
14:16:22  * NGC3982 is so bored.
14:17:31  <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/6W3Bw.png
14:17:38  <NGC3982> Any suggestions?
14:18:20  <frosch123> less sharp curves
14:19:20  <NGC3982> I guess making each curve > the length of a train would be more effective.
14:19:32  <frosch123> did you build the platforms in two separate crossing parts intentionally?
14:19:54  <NGC3982> Yes, haven't tried it before.
14:20:18  <frosch123> i mean, the obvious solution would be to all build them in NW-SE direction
14:20:53  <NGC3982> Normally i'd do that.
14:20:57  <frosch123> currently whenever something is loading in NW-SE, it blocks all entries to NE-SW
14:21:17  <frosch123> because the path extents over the end of the station over the whole junction
14:21:25  <V453000> bridges arent an enemy btw
14:21:34  <NGC3982> And i just noticed a new problem.
14:21:47  <NGC3982> V453000: Yes they are.
14:21:51  <Belugas> hello
14:22:04  <V453000> why?
14:22:28  <NGC3982> V453000: I simply don't like them. :)
14:24:06  <V453000> well endless amount of PBS junctions wont solve most of your jams
14:24:27  <Eddi|zuHause> http://i.imgur.com/WU3wl.jpg
14:24:46  <NGC3982> V453000: Indeed.
14:24:52  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: :D
14:25:22  <V453000> (by that I mean you will need to use bridges/tunnels sooner or later)
14:25:23  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: so pm got away safely?
14:25:44  <Eddi|zuHause> let's hope so :)
14:29:12  * drac_boy still thinks about my effective tunnel+flyover junction for a busy 2-platform passenger station and chuckle at how it would had been more wieldy in ottd with the lack of portal rails and programmed signals
14:29:27  <drac_boy> one day when they finally implent it..I'll have to share some ottd screenshot
14:43:40  <Eddi|zuHause> "portal rails" do not change junction topology
14:43:54  <Eddi|zuHause> they just help you save some space
14:48:24  <drac_boy> well actually it kinda does when ottd need a slower S curve and 2 more tiles space .. which doesn't exactly help fast train movements
14:48:55  <drac_boy> but mm anyway
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14:50:34  <drac_boy> at least I'll pass ottd for one thing even if its not quite updated anymore... being able to share rails+stations
14:51:02  * drac_boy wonders what a flying fox is
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15:46:16  <andythenorth> meh
15:46:26  <andythenorth> most of the ideas for electricity (including some I've had)
15:46:36  <andythenorth> are just variations on "MOAR is better"
15:46:39  <andythenorth> which is wrong
15:47:03  <andythenorth> in vanilla game electricity would probably just be more tedious crap
15:47:06  <andythenorth> like signalling
15:47:17  <andythenorth> in GS....it could be quite interesting
15:47:21  <andythenorth> ah
15:47:33  <andythenorth> wtf doesn't autorail also auto-signal?
15:47:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm of the firm conclusion that electricity should be outside of the transportation game
15:47:46  <andythenorth> default = one way PBS, in the direction of drag
15:48:02  <Eddi|zuHause> tried ctrl+drag?
15:48:08  <andythenorth> orly?
15:48:31  <andythenorth> ctrl-drag removes track
15:48:40  <andythenorth> (with autorail selected)
15:49:24  <NGC3982> "GS"?
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15:59:23  <planetmaker> andythenorth, you can drag signals just well. But it's a separate step
15:59:29  <andythenorth> I know
15:59:29  <andythenorth> :)
15:59:32  <andythenorth> maybe it shouldn't be
15:59:41  <andythenorth> pretty certain we'd have got gold last night in NoCarGoal
15:59:47  <andythenorth> if it wasn't for signalling :P
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16:04:58  <peter1138> hurrdygurr
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16:55:19  <NGC3982> V453000: I had to make way for compromise.
16:55:24  * NGC3982 uses the bloody bridges.
16:55:32  <V453000> :d
16:55:43  <Yexo> <NGC3982> "GS"? <- GoalScript
16:55:48  <NGC3982> Ah, i see.
16:56:10  <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/QPkgl.png
16:56:18  <NGC3982> It's a mess.
16:56:34  <MNIM> lol.
16:56:38  <MNIM> that is not a mess
16:59:25  <NGC3982> The bridges does not contribute to "it" being a mess.
16:59:32  <Eddi|zuHause> that is an abomination :)
16:59:40  <NGC3982> It's a mess, since i have no control on when a dead-lock happends.
17:00:11  <MNIM> oh yes. when you put it like that.
17:00:12  <Eddi|zuHause> you have deadlocks because the entry line crosses the exit line
17:00:45  <MNIM> (WARNING huge unresized screen) http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/Sendtown%20Transport%2C%2017th%20Jun%201977.png
17:00:57  <MNIM> now that is what I call a bit too complicated :P
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17:01:54  <MNIM> whoops. hope I did not just crash him :d
17:01:54  <Eddi|zuHause> 500kB is not huge... 12MB is "huge": www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%2013.%20Apr%202027.png
17:02:08  <MNIM> eddi: I know, but some people disagree
17:02:56  <MNIM> I suppose I could have removed 'huge'.
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17:04:03  <NGC3982> That's one great build.
17:05:53  <MNIM> I like how you did the intersections in that one. looks like something I would build :P
17:06:41  <Eddi|zuHause> the intersections are somewhat "grown"
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17:08:51  <MNIM> it's sad I lost that game where I had a 3-way intersection in the middle of a town with a station worked into it.
17:08:58  <MNIM> now that was what I call spaghetti.
17:10:14  *** AndChat-613041 is now known as DanMacK1
17:10:51  <Eddi|zuHause> so... need a new old game to play :(
17:10:54  * DanMacK1 appears to be having some connection issues
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17:18:53  * NGC3982 recently started playing Rollercoaster Tycoon again.
17:19:03  <NGC3982> Roller<     space    >tycoon.
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17:28:08  <DanMacK> Haven't played that in years
17:28:46  <DanMacK> Its coming out next year for android apparently
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17:35:45  <NGC3982> Oh. That sounds nice.
17:37:15  <DanM>  Yeah
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17:37:33  <DanM> Should be interesting to see how they do it
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17:39:01  <DanMacK> Bbl work time
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17:41:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i never played that game
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18:24:01  <andythenorth> Yexo: the original FIRS idea was that *selected* industries would increase production if supplied with electricity
18:24:14  <andythenorth> these would be power hungry industries like aluminium plant
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18:24:28  <andythenorth> my intention was never to provide power lines and other crap
18:25:01  <andythenorth> but rather check for a nearby power plant that was producing electricity (this requires ability for industries to read each other's permanent storage, which is not available)
18:25:29  <andythenorth> unconvinced of benefits tbh
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18:32:37  <supermop> that way is better thanb transmission lines
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18:38:22  <Alberth> moin
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18:41:40  <Yexo> andythenorth: I am mostly trying to get people in that topic to think about what they want to add and why
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18:45:47  <planetmaker> I *could* imagine two other ways electricity comes into play:
18:46:08  <planetmaker> a) via game script which monitors delivery to power plants and only then allows to grow nearby towns
18:46:41  <planetmaker> b) via extension of industry specs as a special kind of fields where power plants grow power lines like farms grow fields (of course much different shape)
18:46:58  <planetmaker> the latter would be purely eye candy w/o further effect
18:46:59  <Yexo> a) a game script can already do that, no need to introduce electricity or an energy net or whatever for that
18:47:03  <planetmaker> exactly
18:47:26  <Yexo> b) I'm not perse against that, as long as the goal is clear: pure eye candy
18:47:35  <planetmaker> it would just need the actual script and have people believe that they use electricity :-)
18:48:04  <planetmaker> I consider b) as one implementation of more generalized fields. And fields - in my understanding - can always be built over
18:50:02  <planetmaker> (thus b) would also require a NewGRF being written)
18:52:39  <andythenorth> Yexo: why think about what to add? :)  MOAR IS BETTER! No?
18:52:42  <andythenorth> or no
18:52:57  <andythenorth> more building, more routing.  More micromanagement
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18:53:18  <andythenorth> the interesting issue comes when your coal mine won't produce coal because it has no electricity :P
18:53:49  <andythenorth> planetmaker: (a) is valid and we should write a GS with power generation as the goal
18:54:43  <planetmaker> it would fit well IMHO into one of the town growth scripts. As added and / or optional challange
18:54:45  <kero> actually, in the reality, a coal mine doesn't need electricity to produce coal
18:55:16  <Alberth> yeah, mines are driven by pure man-power :)
18:55:45  <kero> essentially, yes. They produced coal for all the 19. century, without electricity
18:55:46  <andythenorth> coal mines probably have on-site power generation :P
18:55:56  <andythenorth> but if a coal mine doesn't need electricity, which industries do?  It starts to sound quite faceted
18:55:59  <planetmaker> nah. They get all light and power by blowing up one dynamite after the other ;-)
18:56:41  <Alberth> dynamite is good for pneumatic power :)
18:57:16  <kero> anyway, just as side note: I like a lot the improvments in OTTD, but I'm not sure that electricity has its place as it
18:57:32  <kero> technically speaking, it's not a resource that you transport
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18:58:03  <andythenorth> I think it's pretty valid as an effect arising from the core gameplay
18:58:14  <andythenorth> I think connecting up power has nothing to do with core gameplay
18:58:23  <andythenorth> if those distinctions make sense :)
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19:55:27  <V453000> feature request: proper error messages; e.g. "Local authority are assholes; they gave you a quest to ravage and recreate local flora for which they will be slightly grateful."
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19:56:09  <planetmaker> what's wrong with "they don't allow you to build"?
19:56:27  <planetmaker> how is the current one in need of improvement?
19:56:37  <V453000> doesnt state they are assholes
19:56:50  <planetmaker> ah, true that ;-)
19:57:03  <Eddi|zuHause> in no reply whatsoever from a city authority you will ever read the word "asshole" :p
19:57:09  <V453000> :)
19:57:23  <planetmaker> but they aren't. They're burocrats who got strongly lobbied by greenpeace
19:57:39  <Alberth> you could make a new translation :p
19:57:51  <planetmaker> like luxury trips to tropical islands for a "seminar" etc
19:58:06  <planetmaker> on environmental protection strategies
19:58:11  <V453000> well Eddi|zuHause this is a message from my secretary which was communicating with the authorities, so in such a message ... :P
19:58:18  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean like insurance agents travelling to budapest? :p
19:58:30  <frosch123> planetmaker: tropical islands?
19:58:38  <frosch123> i thought east europe is more popular?
19:59:00  <planetmaker> frosch123, yes... but I didn't want to tell V that the planes actually go to his home town :-P
19:59:03  <frosch123> yeah, what eddi said
19:59:26  <planetmaker> I thought VW's planes went to Prague?
20:00:01  <Eddi|zuHause> VW is not an insurance agency
20:00:15  <planetmaker> nor a local authority. Except maybe around my home region
20:00:21  <frosch123> planetmaker: wasn't vw about brazil?
20:00:34  <planetmaker> maybe that also ;-)
20:00:48  <Eddi|zuHause> no, VW is in argentina
20:00:55  <Eddi|zuHause> or so
20:01:03  <Eddi|zuHause> or was that BMW?
20:01:15  <planetmaker> VW has a big subsidy in Brazil
20:01:22  <frosch123> hmm, google says india
20:01:53  <planetmaker> :-P
20:02:09  <Alberth> I am pretty sure you can buy both a VW and a BMW in both Brazil and in India :p
20:02:23  <planetmaker> :-)
20:02:36  <V453000> I dont live in Prague pm :P
20:02:41  <V453000> but yeah 100km :)
20:02:51  <frosch123> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uujIScchHd8 <- whatever
20:02:59  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway there was a large german cooperation which "expanded" to argentina in the 1950s
20:03:23  <Eddi|zuHause> and in the 1970s under the dictatorship some labour union people "disappeared"
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20:04:06  <Eddi|zuHause> and several famous german "immigrants" to argentina worked there
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20:11:02  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i know... it was Mercedes Benz
20:11:55  <Eddi|zuHause> great listening material [german]: http://alternativlos.org/26/
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20:19:37  <drac_boy> hi
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22:46:54  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24736 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:46:49 UTC)
22:46:55  <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: The third parameter of Textbuf::Initialize only makes sense if it is smaller than the second one, also its unit is not pixels.
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22:50:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24737 /trunk/src (textbuf.cpp textbuf_type.h) (2012-11-14 22:50:11 UTC)
22:50:21  <DorpsGek> -Add: Textbuf::Assign and Textbuf::Print.
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22:50:34  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24738 /trunk/src (15 files in 3 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:17 UTC)
22:50:39  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Remove Textbuf::Initialize in favour of a constructor.
22:50:55  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Fascinating.
22:51:01  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24739 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:21 UTC)
22:51:08  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Simplify some code by using Textbuf::Assign.
22:51:11  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24740 /trunk/src (11 files in 3 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:26 UTC)
22:51:12  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Remove duplicate members from QueryStringBaseWindow and directly use QueryString.
22:51:15  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24741 trunk/src/core/smallmap_type.hpp (2012-11-14 22:50:30 UTC)
22:51:16  <DorpsGek> -Add: Const-methods to SmallMap.
22:51:19  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24742 /trunk/src (16 files in 3 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:35 UTC)
22:51:20  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Remove QueryStringBaseWindow and store QueryStrings per widget instead.
22:51:23  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24743 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:39 UTC)
22:51:24  <DorpsGek> -Change: Unify the behaviour of ESC in filter editboxes.
22:51:27  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24744 /trunk/src (3 files) (2012-11-14 22:50:42 UTC)
22:51:28  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Handle clicking on editboxed also via QueryString.
22:51:31  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24745 /trunk/src (misc_gui.cpp widget.cpp) (2012-11-14 22:50:46 UTC)
22:51:32  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Draw complete editbox via QueryString.
22:51:35  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24746 /trunk/src (3 files) (2012-11-14 22:50:49 UTC)
22:51:36  <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Remove weird lowering of editboxes.
22:51:40  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24747 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:53 UTC)
22:51:41  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Some editboxes had a different colour than the rest of the window.
22:51:44  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24748 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:56 UTC)
22:51:45  <DorpsGek> -Add: Clear button to all editboxes.
22:51:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24749 /trunk (6 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:51:01 UTC)
22:51:49  <DorpsGek> -Add: GUI icons for delete to the left/right.
22:51:52  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24750 /trunk/src (4 files in 4 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:51:05 UTC)
22:51:53  <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Remove old special clear filter button from signs list.
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