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00:12:40 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:13:08 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:58 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 00:16:17 *** krinn [~krinn@29.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 00:16:50 <krinn> hello 00:17:03 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 00:19:07 <krinn> i get a strange result by squirrel (well, maybe not, but for me it look strange) : local _blah = null; switch (huhu) { case 0: _blah=0; break; case... } print(_blah) <- error _blah does not exist 00:20:26 <krinn> inside the switch case, _blah exist and show the proper value i have set, but once i reach the break; state the _blah value disappears, shouldn't it kep it ? 00:21:26 <Eddi|zuHause> smells scopy... :p 00:21:51 <krinn> it's all inside the same function 00:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the switch opens its own scope, so each _blah assignment there creates a new local variable, shadowing the other _Blah 00:22:15 <krinn> i was thinking that too :( 00:22:28 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't know details about squirrel scopes 00:22:48 <krinn> but shouldn't i get an error inside the switch {} because i use _blah= and not local _blah= so inside the switch _blah is not define 00:23:06 <Eddi|zuHause> local is just syntactic sugar 00:23:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not required 00:23:31 <krinn> :o 00:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (at least if it works remotely like python) 00:23:42 <krinn> you mean local is not local then :) 00:24:11 <krinn> how can i fix that ? 00:24:20 <Eddi|zuHause> "a=0" creates a local variable a if it can't find a variable with that name 00:24:53 <krinn> mmm let me try the a=0 to see if it throw "a doesn't exist" 00:26:03 <krinn> no, i got the a doesn't exist error 00:26:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm ok 00:26:38 <krinn> anyway to fix that ? 00:26:57 <krinn> inside the switch the print(_blah) works, not outside 00:28:21 <Eddi|zuHause> then i don't know... could be a squirrel/optimisation bug that the variable goes out of scope too earlly, or it could be a misunderstanding of the specs 00:28:59 <glx> you can try to print it before the switch, just to test 00:29:09 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:29:17 <krinn> glx: it works, until i reach the break; statement 00:29:46 <krinn> the problem is because i do inside the switch _blah = aclass(); 00:30:04 <krinn> if i do _blah = "hell", _blah after the break print "hell" 00:30:37 <glx> looks like it deletes the object when exiting from the switch then 00:30:49 <krinn> glx yes 00:31:01 <krinn> even if _blah was define itself before the switch 00:32:41 <krinn> damn scope hell! 00:47:34 <krinn> found the line that create this, if i comment it out, it works, else it doesn't :/ 00:48:21 <krinn> but it's a foreach loop 00:57:17 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-029-020.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:01:26 <glx> maybe paste the code somewhere 01:03:06 <krinn> pastebin ? 01:03:14 <glx> yes 01:03:24 <krinn> really strange, i will put comment on the line that trouble me 01:06:07 <krinn> http://pastebin.com/A5eYEn3J the code 01:07:26 <krinn> http://pastebin.com/67zVknSE the error if i kept the foreach loop line uncomment 01:10:04 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.96.246] has joined #openttd 01:10:24 *** catpants [~catpants@67-5-197-163.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 01:10:38 <krinn> really weird, the foreach make it lost the _station 01:11:16 <krinn> but after the break, as before the break i still have it 01:16:01 <glx> I don't think it's safe to modify _station.s_Tiles inside a foreach iterating it 01:17:02 <krinn> that's what i was thinking too, even i have done it plenty times 01:17:12 <krinn> i have change it too : foreach (loc, _dummy in _station.s_Tiles) { print("trigger bug"); } 01:17:39 <krinn> commenting it, it works, uncomment, it put trigger bug output and indeed the bug appears 01:18:41 <glx> and only this foreach breaks ? 01:19:06 <krinn> lol yes 01:19:20 <glx> because the one on the next line is very similar 01:19:25 <krinn> i have even change it to : foreach (loc, _dummy in _station.s_Tiles) { } 01:19:45 <krinn> ah no, sorry i have just add this one before pasting it, this one must be comment out too 01:22:41 <krinn> it's kinda amazing, even that trigger the bug -> local grrr = AIList(); grrr.AddList(_station.s_Tiles); foreach (loc, _dummy in grrr) { } 01:29:31 <krinn> i have update the pastebin with the current code and sample of output at end : http://pastebin.com/xgJLkMn2 01:31:35 <glx> that's really weird 01:31:53 <krinn> i know :D 01:31:59 <krinn> i really don't get what's going on 01:32:14 <krinn> the foreach make it act stupidly 01:37:23 <krinn> what squirrel version we use in openttd 1.2.1 ? 01:37:44 <krinn> i'm looking at : http://freecode.com/projects/the-squirrel-programming-language/releases/259630 01:37:59 <krinn> and i see foreach changes 01:38:12 <krinn> for squirrel 2.1.2 01:41:35 <glx> we use 2.2.5 01:42:13 <krinn> any function to get the squirrel version in openttd itself? 01:43:45 <glx> there is _version_ 01:44:32 <krinn> you mean a print(_version_); should make it ? 01:44:38 <glx> yes 01:45:38 <krinn> ah yes, 2.2.5 stable 01:46:04 <krinn> and of course they don't gave 2.2.5 changed here :) http://sourceforge.net/news/?group_id=85893 01:47:25 <krinn> must say i'm totally lost now 01:48:33 <glx> http://sourceforge.net/projects/squirrel/files/squirrel2/squirrel%202.2.5%20stable/ there's a changelog here 01:49:50 <krinn> thank you 01:51:13 <krinn> glx you think it's squirrel bug too ? 01:51:19 <glx> dunno 01:52:17 <krinn> ah lol, i have just think i could for loop it instead of foreach :D 01:55:01 <glx> why not just use Valuate() . 01:55:07 <glx> ? 01:55:27 <krinn> ah yes, will work too 01:55:30 <krinn> changing code to see 01:56:15 <glx> because your line is exactly a use for Valuate() :) 01:56:46 <krinn> :) _station.s_Tiles.Valuate(AIRoad.GetRoadStationFrontTile); 01:58:34 <krinn> dbg: [script] [1] [P] loc=228518 other=228519 01:58:34 <krinn> dbg: [script] [1] [S] Your script made an error: the index 'bugme' does not exist 01:58:41 <krinn> valuate version works :D 01:59:11 <glx> it should be faster too 01:59:16 <krinn> it's really foreach, scarry, i have plenty 02:00:09 <krinn> grep -R foreach * | wc -l 02:00:09 <krinn> 248 02:00:11 <krinn> :( 02:00:35 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 02:00:40 <glx> even a foreach not using _station in any way ? 02:01:13 <krinn> ah no, i shouldn't have that special foreach between switch case a lot 02:02:03 <krinn> oh ! and glad at least the bug do throw an error that crash the ai ! 02:02:13 <krinn> so should be 248 safe foreach :) 02:03:32 <krinn> should i put that in flyspray for reminding it ? 02:03:38 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.25.85.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:57 <glx> maybe yes 02:04:20 <krinn> even there's no real explain why it does that? 02:04:21 <glx> some devs are more familiar than me with squirrel VM 02:05:24 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-211.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 02:05:28 <glx> maybe you're the first to use foreach in a switch :) 02:05:55 <krinn> lmao, with a local variable before the switch, re-use after it 02:07:00 <krinn> i will post it tomorrow, will do a small AI with just the case in it to see if it could reproduce at least easy or it need special conditions 02:07:55 <glx> yes the smaller test case the better 02:09:53 <glx> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=49176 02:10:00 <glx> you're not the first :) 02:10:57 <krinn> glx wow amazing how you find this one so fast 02:11:28 <krinn> eheh i suppose i don't need a testing AI so, it's confirm 02:12:18 <glx> more than 2 years old 02:14:15 <krinn> so still affecting squirrel 2.2.5 02:16:15 <krinn> ahah lol and morloth fix works 02:16:47 <krinn> local _station = null; local stupidbug = 0; and the foreach works 02:22:04 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:22:57 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Your lucky number is 3552664958674928. Watch for it everywhere.] 02:40:13 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 02:43:51 *** Pinkbeast [damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk] has joined #openttd 02:44:34 <Pinkbeast> Ha, I think I just realised why cargod*st always produces unfeasible pax numbers 02:45:02 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 02:54:57 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 12:30:41 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 12:36:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:2cce:c02c:2eda:bc95] has joined #openttd 13:04:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:2cce:c02c:2eda:bc95] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:13:22 <andythenorth> la la la 13:13:50 <Flygon> Nice singing 13:14:51 <andythenorth> electricity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIYAALiE_lA&feature=relmfu 13:15:06 <andythenorth> what openttd *really* needs is tesla coils 13:15:52 <NGC3982> Indeed. 13:16:05 <Flygon> I want Tesla Coil trains 13:16:30 <Flygon> Can train NewGRF's determine the amount of sparks they create? 13:16:53 <andythenorth> ha 13:17:07 <Flygon> It's a serious question 13:17:16 <andythenorth> no 13:17:23 <andythenorth> it's a sore point for andythenorth 13:19:54 <Eddi|zuHause> http://img.pr0gramm.com/2012/11/fpuuf.jpg 13:20:05 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@wced-153-218-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 13:20:05 <V453000> well if your trains would be massively weak, they would use all of their effort all the time ... which would make a lot of sparks 13:20:09 <V453000> usability is .. :) 13:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause> sparks have nothing to do with effort 13:21:04 <andythenorth> did you see in the FISH thread btw, someone has suggested ships should have smoke 13:21:14 <andythenorth> it's an intriguing idea 13:21:15 <V453000> I thought when train has a hard time, it makes more sparks 13:21:20 <Eddi|zuHause> what a stupid idea!! :p 13:21:28 <V453000> with the setting set to 2 13:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: sparks are usually caused by dirty spots on the catenary 13:21:48 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 13:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. when the contact between catenary and pantograph is weak 13:22:11 <V453000> well I meant things like steam, diesel smoke and electricity sparks coming from top of trains 13:22:14 <andythenorth> not so much in ottd :P 13:22:18 <planetmaker> does ice count as dirt? ;-) 13:22:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yes :) 13:22:28 <V453000> right 13:22:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it's most common with ice 13:22:52 <V453000> still, diesel/steam is based on what the train is doing 13:22:57 <V453000> I think electricity just as well 13:22:59 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: steam puffs are not "sparks" :) 13:23:13 <V453000> questionable! 13:23:18 <V453000> ok maybe not 13:23:53 <andythenorth> code will know 13:25:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the code calls them "effect vehicles", which cover all three types (and a little more) 13:28:07 <V453000> that is what Flygon was talking about isnt it 13:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> in the context of tesla coils? why would he talk about steam puffs? 13:29:06 <V453000> Can train NewGRF's determine the amount of sparks they create? 13:29:17 <Flygon> Yes, that's what I want to know 13:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> "spark" = "electricity effect" 13:29:42 <Flygon> The Tesla v1 train will be designed in 1894 13:29:42 <V453000> that is what I am saying all the fucking time :D 13:30:05 <Flygon> The Telsa v446 will come out in 2445 and will have the finest of Borg engineering 13:30:34 <V453000> I like anything imaginary 13:30:53 <Flygon> Okay then 13:30:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you're nuts... 13:31:03 <Flygon> What about the Flygon Aircraft? :D 13:31:30 <Flygon> Half the room just groaned irl, I just know it 13:32:39 <Eddi|zuHause> 80% of the room is idle... 13:33:37 <Flygon> Half the active room :U 13:35:08 <V453000> +-5 people 13:36:28 <Flygon> ... 13:36:33 <Flygon> How about this 13:36:40 <Flygon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_5v6dU9bNE Awesome music time 13:36:51 <Flygon> Because, I feel like an idiot right now 13:37:00 <Flygon> And I'd like to preserve what little humility I have left :p 13:38:06 <V453000> now that is some wtf 13:38:15 <Flygon> The music? 13:38:19 <Flygon> It's not that bad :( 13:38:38 <Markk> Is it Yello? 13:39:12 <V453000> dont think this is Yello 13:39:34 <Flygon> I'm so confused 13:40:56 <Markk> Are you bicurious? 13:41:12 <Flygon> Mate 13:41:27 <Markk> Oi 13:41:30 <Flygon> Uuuh 13:41:45 <Flygon> Should I reply via query? 13:41:47 <Flygon> >=3 13:41:54 <Markk> Haha, do it. 13:41:56 <Flygon> And besides 13:42:01 <Flygon> I'm not Bike Curious 13:42:01 <Markk> do so* 13:42:05 <Flygon> I'm Bike Commuter 13:42:08 <Markk> ;) 13:42:11 <Markk> Same here. 13:42:16 <Markk> At least in the summer. 13:42:26 <Flygon> Move to Melbourne 13:42:28 <Markk> But right now I'm taking the bike to the train and back. 13:42:37 <Markk> You don't think I kinda want to? 13:42:41 <Flygon> Summer can go anywhere between 8c to 47c 13:42:42 <Markk> Bloody cold up here atm. 13:42:59 <Flygon> I tried to take my bike onto the Tram, and the driver said no :( 13:43:08 <Flygon> So my friend went on the tram, and I used my bike 13:43:14 <Flygon> As it turns out, bikes are faster than trams 13:43:25 <Flygon> ...and cars, and buses, and trucks, in the Melbourne CBD 13:43:30 <Markk> :D 13:43:57 <Flygon> But yeah, I tend to take my bike on the train too 13:54:38 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@wced-153-218-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:19:09 <Belugas> hello 14:19:19 <Flygon> Heya 14:19:34 <andythenorth> sqawk 14:19:42 <andythenorth> what noise does the whale make? 14:19:52 <andythenorth> this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kybyy1EkoOE 14:22:55 <Belugas> hehe 14:24:09 <andythenorth> so what have I done to break FIRS ground sprites? :p 14:29:24 <NGC3982> That's a very good song. 14:39:11 <andythenorth> how do I get openttd to complain about broken sprites? 14:39:14 <andythenorth> I need some debug 14:51:49 <planetmaker> might not have been you. might have been so before even 14:52:10 <planetmaker> might be related to invalid sprites being called, e.g. when drawing fences. maybe 14:52:23 <planetmaker> but not sure what you mean with "break" 14:53:20 <andythenorth> trying different FIRS versions suggests it was me :) 14:53:46 <andythenorth> iirc the layout is trying to draw sprite numbers that just don't exist (or so frosch told me) 14:54:02 <andythenorth> it's in old old pnml templates 14:54:14 <andythenorth> so unless it's an easy fix, I should just convert the affected industries 14:54:29 <andythenorth> issue shows as '?' sprite, or just flickering other sprites 14:55:07 <andythenorth> unfortunately, because I moved things it the repo, I've broken hg revision history on the affected files :P 15:17:43 *** Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:26:07 <Ammler> yeah, I wonder how it is meant that hg rename should keep the history 15:26:49 <Ammler> but just use the old path with hg log 15:41:09 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 15:46:44 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:55:46 *** Cybert1nus [~Cybertinu@2001:828:405:30:83:96:177:42] has joined #openttd 15:57:43 *** TyrHeimd1l [~TyrHeimda@193.142.100.177] has joined #openttd 15:57:46 *** Markk_ [mark@rikskriminalpolisen.com] has joined #openttd 15:58:09 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> charm.oftc.net quits: KyleXY, murr4y, Pulec, Guilux, TyrHeimdal, Markk, xaroth, mikegrb, kais58_, Cybertinus 15:58:09 *** Markk_ is now known as Markk 15:58:25 *** Netsplit over, joins: kais58_ 15:58:53 *** Netsplit over, joins: mikegrb 15:59:35 *** Netsplit over, joins: Pulec, KyleXY, murr4y, Guilux, xaroth 15:59:39 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 482 seconds] 16:00:28 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has joined #openttd 16:00:44 *** murr4y [murray@kvikshaug.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 482 seconds] 16:01:19 *** murr4y [murray@kvikshaug.no] has joined #openttd 16:13:32 <andythenorth> so 16:13:43 <andythenorth> GS that 'uses' 'electricity' 16:14:04 <andythenorth> needs to measure production at power stations (use delivered cargo as proxy) 16:14:14 <andythenorth> needs to be tied to specific newgrfs 16:14:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.144.74] has joined #openttd 16:14:55 <andythenorth> needs to have some effect on town or other goals 16:15:28 <andythenorth> I had an idea called 'GridIron' which is basically build 1 power station per town for n towns, and deliver x thousand tonnes of coal 16:15:36 <andythenorth> it's a variation on cargo goal GS 16:18:30 <Pinkbeast> It does seem to be coal that most makes the producer-led model of OTTD a little painful 16:22:11 <andythenorth> ? 16:25:25 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.144.74] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:27:16 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.247] has joined #openttd 16:37:51 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 16:38:55 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 16:49:09 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d083657.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:00:10 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:01:23 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.25.85.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 17:01:38 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 17:06:23 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.168] has joined #openttd 17:08:11 <DanMacK> O/ 17:29:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.247] has joined #openttd 17:30:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.247] has joined #openttd 17:30:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.247] has joined #openttd 17:31:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:37:41 *** kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 17:39:17 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:39:31 *** DanM [~AndChat61@74.198.9.197] has joined #openttd 17:46:42 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:55:16 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 17:55:20 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-111.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:55:26 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:01:49 *** DanM [~AndChat61@74.198.9.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:03:29 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.144.74] has joined #openttd 18:04:50 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.144.74] has quit [] 18:05:01 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 18:10:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:17:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1ABB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:21:56 *** Devroush [~dennis@d5152695A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:23:13 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 18:30:54 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.96.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:32:41 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:33:41 *** krinn [~krinn@29.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:34:54 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:34:57 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:35:26 <Alberth> o/ 18:38:20 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 18:41:33 * Alberth puts a cable through the channel 18:42:32 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:40fe:8e43:a939:eb1e] has joined #openttd 18:42:35 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:45:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24751 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2012-11-15 18:45:23 UTC) 18:45:33 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:34 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 13 changes by jhsoby 18:45:35 <DorpsGek> romanian - 36 changes by kkmic 18:45:36 <DorpsGek> swedish - 1 changes by Joel_A 19:00:42 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:01:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:01:14 <supermop> yo andy 19:02:23 <andythenorth> lo 19:02:45 <Alberth> hi 19:02:51 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 19:02:58 <Alberth> hi Zuu 19:03:06 <Zuu> Hello Alberth 19:03:11 <supermop> so no one is writing a power gs, but everyone is saying they'd like one 19:03:28 * Alberth has not said any such thing 19:03:33 <supermop> haha 19:03:44 <supermop> literalism aside, 19:03:45 <andythenorth> I am not writing one 19:03:55 <andythenorth> but I have a name and a concept - GridIron 19:04:01 <supermop> is this something i could conceivably do? 19:04:06 <andythenorth> probably 19:04:27 <supermop> and how would the GS recognize power production? 19:04:34 <Alberth> anyone can, given that you have enough itch 19:04:47 <supermop> it seems that simply looking for coal delivery isn't sufficient 19:04:52 <Zuu> a GS can monitor cargo delivery to industries/towns 19:05:28 <Zuu> why isn't it sufficent? 19:05:33 <supermop> as some industry grfs could implement other types of power plants, not to mention industries that accept coal but do not produce pwer 19:06:02 <Alberth> supermop: don't try to get the optimal solution, just find any solution that works at first 19:06:06 <supermop> supplying the Firs concrete factory with coal shouldn't power an aluminum plant 19:06:06 <andythenorth> you have to tie it to specific grfs 19:06:21 <andythenorth> you need to look for an industry ID 19:06:30 <andythenorth> it's known to be a poor solution, but meh, try it 19:06:40 <Alberth> it's quite likely that once you have a solution, people will change their ideas 19:06:50 <supermop> can you look for any cargo delivered to industry type X? 19:06:59 <andythenorth> you can track delivered amounts 19:07:02 <supermop> or only cargo y? 19:07:06 <Zuu> You can check that the industry type doesn't have any cargo output. 19:07:13 <andythenorth> right now the electricity debate has entered into bikeshedding territory :) 19:07:21 <andythenorth> or rather, just a noisy debate :P 19:07:32 <supermop> bikeshed? 19:07:40 <supermop> what angloism is this? 19:07:50 <andythenorth> arguing about what colour to paint the bikeshed at the nuclear power plant 19:08:00 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_Law_of_Triviality 19:08:01 <supermop> blue 19:08:04 <supermop> easy 19:08:09 <andythenorth> actually the electricity debate is not bikeshedding 19:08:12 <andythenorth> just noisy :P 19:08:13 <Zuu> supermop: You can monitor cargo of a specific cargo type diliveried/picked up to/from any industry by a specific company. 19:08:27 <andythenorth> supermop: just adapt NoCarGoal, or SiliconValley 19:08:34 <andythenorth> SV might have more of what you need already 19:08:57 <Zuu> Or you can monitor a specific town to get all cargo deliveried to houses and industries of that town. 19:09:01 <supermop> can a gs require specific grfs, or is it agnostic? 19:09:06 <Alberth> http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSCargoMonitor.html 19:09:26 <Zuu> A GS cannot check for specific NewGRFs by NewGRF id or name. 19:09:28 <andythenorth> supermop: your readme.txt can require specific grfs :) 19:10:09 <andythenorth> GS should be able to mark grfs as dependencies 19:10:39 <supermop> what programming knowlege should I learn? do i need to knpow c? 19:10:48 <Zuu> Squirrel is enough 19:11:14 <Zuu> http://squirrel-lang.org/doc/squirrel2.html <--- not so good documentation of the language 19:12:35 <Zuu> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=62163 <--- template GS that you can copy and rename for new projects 19:16:18 <Zuu> http://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Main_Page <--- wiki page that describes the infrastructure for AIs which in most cases also apply to game scripts. 19:16:37 * andythenorth wonders what will happen when it's discovered that only one GS per game is possible 19:16:44 <andythenorth> and that GS has limited magical powers 19:17:35 <andythenorth> :) 19:19:03 <supermop> if you wanted power and some other goal, it would be reasonable to write a new script that did both? 19:22:12 <Zuu> Yes, both would have to be in the same GS. 19:22:41 <Zuu> At some point we will probably see the first GS pack. 19:23:01 <Rubidium> andythenorth: a nuclear plant must be fluorescent green-ish yellow 19:23:26 <supermop> how about objects that produce power but take no fuel, such as a wind farm or dam? can GS look for those specific items based on grf loaded or would there be another way? 19:24:39 <Zuu> There is currently not an API to access NewObjects and properties of them. 19:24:47 <supermop> ok 19:28:17 <Rubidium> is there even a property to signal such things in objects at all? 19:28:25 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-111.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:28:25 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:29:13 <Zuu> I guess such things would need to go via the name. Though now that I think of it, the name that the GS would see is probably subject to translations. 19:30:02 <supermop> can objects produce or accept cargo? 19:30:14 <Zuu> No, for that you want an industry. 19:30:17 <supermop> maybe dams etc would be better as industies or houses then 19:30:47 <andythenorth> industries 19:30:51 <andythenorth> hydro plant etc 19:31:01 <andythenorth> requires: nothing 19:31:03 <andythenorth> produces: nothing 19:31:06 <supermop> industry that accepts and produces no cargo 19:31:58 <supermop> i was hoping there would be a way to but a flag on some tiles (of anything) that says: this tile produces power 19:32:03 <supermop> and gs looks at that 19:32:48 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 19:33:29 <andythenorth> nope 19:33:36 <andythenorth> no way to do that 19:33:38 <andythenorth> how much of town control is implemented? 19:33:44 <supermop> kwh or mwh as a cargo would be good if one could forbid it from being transported 19:33:59 <supermop> then gs looks for mwh produced 19:34:22 <__ln__> i made a patch for that in ~2004 19:34:47 <Zuu> Or just don't make any industries that accept mwh? 19:35:06 <supermop> and you get the satisfaction of seeing a coal plant's productivity in its window 19:35:16 <andythenorth> that could be done in text 19:35:20 <andythenorth> but not in a way GS could read 19:35:25 <supermop> hmm 19:35:44 <andythenorth> do what can be done now 19:36:03 <andythenorth> there are lots of ideas kicking around, but little interest in actually implementing :) 19:36:07 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.151] has joined #openttd 19:36:11 <andythenorth> same as you said on forums 19:36:32 <supermop> can i mess around with gs on note pad or similar? 19:36:36 <supermop> I am at work 19:36:47 <Zuu> You can use notepad if you like 19:37:01 <Zuu> Pretty much any text editor is enough. 19:37:15 <Zuu> And OpenTTD to run the GS of course :-) 19:37:18 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-227-31.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:37:32 <supermop> i don't need a compiler? 19:37:44 <supermop> (don't really get what a compiler is) 19:37:57 <Zuu> No, OpenTTD have everything built in to intreprete the .nut files. 19:38:55 <Zuu> To my understanding it reads the source files and does some sort of compiling/intrepreteing when you start a game to not have to read the .nut files letter by letter when it executes the script. But this all happen inside of OpenTTD. 19:39:27 <andythenorth> newgrf wiki has nothing about town control 19:39:49 <Zuu> Town APIs: http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSTown.html 19:40:51 <Zuu> What you want to watch out for is statements like these "Valid GSCompanyMode active in scope." in the description of an API. That means that it must perform that action on behalf of a company. 19:41:24 <Zuu> s/description/list of preconditions/ 19:43:32 <Zuu> In several cases patches that lift these restrictions will probably be accepted. However, many of these require more than just a one-line change and making sure you don't break anything. For example the industry construction for GS change took me several hours to prepare. 19:44:32 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-32-193.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:44:50 <Zuu> I don't want to discourage anyone from looking at other restrictions, just saying that going over all and lifting where possible, will take time. 19:49:32 <Rubidium> ... and even then bugs might creep up years later ;) 19:54:10 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:54:27 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:55:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:06:52 <__ln__> http://mars-one.com/en/ 21:11:32 <supermop> has no one said anything in the past hour? 21:11:34 <supermop> weird 21:12:39 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 21:19:18 <__ln__> everything's been said already, there's nothing more to discuss. 21:20:51 <supermop> yep might as well decommission the channel 21:21:57 <Supercheese> Hmm, I haven't yet learned how to code GS 21:22:01 <Supercheese> just grfs 21:22:21 <__ln__> so, would anyone here be willing to emigrate to Mars? 21:22:38 <Supercheese> No way, the latency on mutliplayer games would be horrendous 21:25:38 <NGC3982> http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/lanube/25130513/53599/53599_600.gif 21:26:24 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:27:32 *** Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:29:19 *** Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:33:00 <Supercheese> So... even if one were to write an Electricity-related gamescript... what should it do, exactly? 21:33:27 <planetmaker> *that* is the good question ;-) 21:33:33 <Rubidium> empower the user 21:33:34 <Supercheese> That's the ,000 question 21:34:02 <supermop> i will write a GS for ,000 21:34:04 <planetmaker> I'd suggest to implement it like boosting or even enabling town growth, if nearby power plant receives coal 21:34:09 <supermop> i'll need 50% up front 21:34:14 <Supercheese> There's one suggestion 21:34:17 <Rubidium> spark the user's imagination? 21:34:34 <Supercheese> some folks seem to want electricity generation required to run electrified trains 21:34:53 <Rubidium> good luck starting in 2050 then 21:34:54 <Supercheese> I personally don't care for that feature, but more importantly, is that even possible? 21:35:01 <supermop> i don't know if it would be 21:35:14 <Rubidium> or actually, good luck starting any time... 21:35:28 <Rubidium> as trucks/busses would then need diesel 21:35:30 <Supercheese> Horse-drawn stuff? 21:35:35 <supermop> i think if you do that, you need well supplied oil refineries too 21:35:41 <Rubidium> horses need straw/grain 21:35:44 <supermop> rickshaws 21:35:50 <Supercheese> First route must be from farm 21:35:53 <Supercheese> :P 21:35:54 <Rubidium> rickshaws need food 21:36:03 <supermop> humans buy their own food with their salary 21:36:04 <Rubidium> steam trains need coal 21:36:09 <Supercheese> Heyyy... there are no rickshaws are there 21:36:18 * Supercheese wonders how hard it would be to draw them 21:36:27 <Rubidium> rickshaws are not impossible 21:36:30 <supermop> but only if you have a productive food industry! 21:36:34 <Supercheese> or bicycles, for that matter. Both would probably be like 5 pixels though 21:36:47 <Supercheese> but the scales are so out of whack anyway 21:36:53 <Supercheese> might as well make bicycles the size of buses 21:36:55 <Eddi|zuHause> the first railway companies to use electric traction usually built their own power plant 21:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause> in switzerland and bavaria they used water power, and in central germany coal power 21:37:49 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that needs building materials 21:37:56 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: not just because of no other generation, but also because they didn't have good enough long distance transmission yet 21:38:20 <supermop> so force user to build feeder plants 21:38:30 <supermop> and watering stations for steam 21:38:35 <Zuu> Making a power GS that work on the default industries should be fairly simple. Restrict it to watch dead-end industries that take the only cargo with the label "COAL". If > X coal units have been received for a town the last month, enable town growth of that town, otherwise disable it. 21:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the tram companies also often were the first ones to bring electricity to a town 21:38:58 <Supercheese> Water towers for steam engines are already drawn 21:39:07 <Supercheese> so are coal loaders 21:39:25 <Supercheese> and I guess wood loaders for wood-burning 21:39:29 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: false, we do have electricity, but not trams 21:39:36 <supermop> now just make them mandatory for confused new users 21:39:43 <Zuu> For powered engines, abuse the ability to sell player vehicles to sell electric engines if they aren't bought in a depot that have a powerplant nearby. 21:39:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i said _often_ 21:40:03 <supermop> Zuu: i thought of that 21:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> in the years 1885..1900 21:40:32 <supermop> i actually like playing maps with only one depot 21:40:43 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I suggest you start counting the number of cities with trams, and the number of cities with electricity then :p 21:40:52 <supermop> and scheduling non-revenue movements to get trains to their lines 21:40:55 <Supercheese> Gamescripts cannot affect industry production changes, correct? 21:41:05 <planetmaker> no(t yet) 21:41:19 <Alberth> good night 21:41:22 <Zuu> The later hower need to have a check that runns fairly often which means that you cannot check coal delivery of all towns in one go but need to do some towns, and then check all depots for illegal electric trains and then go back to checking delivery etc. 21:41:24 <Supercheese> vale, dormiture 21:41:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: you misunderstand me on purpose... 21:41:40 <planetmaker> and it's conceptionally questionable whether they will. From my POV the most they'll ever can be made to do is ask the industry (newgrf) to change production 21:41:43 <supermop> now we just need trains stranded on the tracks because you didn't generate enough power last month 21:41:48 <planetmaker> which it may ignore and totally do its own thing 21:41:57 <Supercheese> GRF/Gamescript interfacing sounds good 21:42:06 <supermop> or ran out of steam or diesel 21:42:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: under the condition of a town having an electric tram system [now or in the past], count the number of towns which had electricity before that tram system was introduced. 21:42:38 <supermop> then we write a GS where your goal is to refund irate passengers their money 21:42:48 <Alberth> supermop: and then it gets fun bringing coal over the same set of tracks :p 21:42:54 <Zuu> planetmaker: Even if NewGRF _can_ veto, its possible for someone to make a NewGRF that doesn't veto which makes it suitable to use along with a GS that do detailed control. 21:43:16 <supermop> (Refunded 234 out of 00000 last month!) 21:43:24 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: you probably win then 21:43:52 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:43:57 <planetmaker> Zuu, yes, of course. I know already a NewGRF which likely then would support it. Or two ;-) 21:44:12 <supermop> Also supply food to depots to stock the snack cart on passenger trains 21:44:46 *** kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: kero] 21:44:59 <supermop> (can't build plane! Must supply 20 crates of small soda cans this month to build 737!) 21:46:16 <planetmaker> lol 21:46:22 <planetmaker> and helium to lift it :-P 21:48:36 <supermop> if one really wanted to go down this route it would be best to just discount running cost on a per traction type basis 21:48:56 <supermop> not sure GS can do that 21:54:48 <supermop> planetmaker: must deliver the helium quickly though or it will leak out of the crates! 21:59:17 *** catpants [~catpants@67-5-197-163.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 22:00:19 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus] 22:04:52 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:14:27 *** sprog [bc640aeb@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:15:40 *** sprog [bc640aeb@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] 22:26:04 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: we have "late delivery" penalties for that 22:30:11 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:30:58 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:35:37 *** Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:37:09 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-016-208.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 22:47:41 *** Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:51:04 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:53:43 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:58:00 *** Rait [~Rait@41.28.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:09:23 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:12:11 *** lugo [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:45 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-32-193.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:28:10 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:28:54 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d083657.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 23:29:00 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:50:03 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]