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Log for #openttd on 26th November 2012:
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03:11:50  <MinchinWeb> Is there someone on who can make a quick typo fix in the NoAI documentation?
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05:51:26  <trikol> Hi, got a little problem with a train station, what would be the correct layout of signals on this station? http://imgur.com/lgEkv
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10:17:29  * NGC3982 would use EPS all the way.
10:22:36  <Arafangion> EPS?
10:23:48  <NGC3982> The electric path signal (and mostly one-way).
10:24:17  <NGC3982> I'm not the right person to teach about PBS, but it mostly suits me.
10:25:32  <Arafangion> Ah, that.
10:26:44  <NGC3982> I haven't (oddly enough since ive been playing OpenTTD for quite som time now) botherd to learn using PBS correctly, though.
10:26:48  <NGC3982> Maybe, it's time.
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10:30:31  <peter1138> I would've replied had they not left...
10:30:57  <peter1138> I don't think I've ever seen path signals referred to as "EPS" before, though.
10:32:23  <NGC3982> I was trying to refer to the design more than the function.
10:32:35  <NGC3982> But yes, could have used something more correct.
10:45:14  <dihedral> hello
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10:58:22  <peter1138> Hello dihedral.
10:58:33  <dihedral> helli sir :-)
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11:59:26  <Flygon> I can't be stuffed using entry/exit signals, if that's what you mean :P
12:02:34  <peter1138> They're a bit oldschool
12:05:54  <Flygon> They are?
12:06:30  <Flygon> I always got by perfectly with ordinary one-way and those signals that have a signal on one end but can be passed from behind
12:08:55  <peter1138> o_O
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12:13:44  <V453000> not to mention that the possibilities using pre-signals are just ridiculously various :p
12:14:46  <NGC3982> What Flygon said.
12:14:57  <NGC3982> I don't think i have ever used entry/exit for something useful
12:15:33  <V453000> that is rather sad
12:16:25  <Flygon> I don't really think of any particulary uses for it at this moment
12:16:36  <Flygon> None that're entirely practical, anyway
12:17:39  <V453000> telling trains why to go where, under what conditions to go or not, chaining the conditions, making the conditions consist of almost absolutely anything, ...
12:18:17  <V453000> like, let train A go towards the station if there is a) at least an empty platform, b) no other train coming to the station, c) no other train going towards that platform
12:18:24  <V453000> and anything else you could think of
12:22:35  <NGC3982> Well, i guess that is true, and i guess it's sad that i don't use it.
12:22:36  <Flygon> I'm pretty sure you can do that with just one-way and pass-behind signals
12:22:36  <NGC3982> But it works.
12:22:45  <NGC3982> And i have never got around to learn about it.
12:22:53  <Flygon> Barring b... if it's a two-way station
12:23:04  <Flygon> But honestly
12:23:20  <Flygon> I'd rather have multiple trains going in at once, rather than just one at once, for the sake of time
12:23:31  <Flygon> I see no reason not to shove in-shove out as fast as possible
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12:24:01  <Flygon> DDR clearly hasn't seen me on other networks
12:24:12  <V453000> that has nothing to do with throughput, those trains could be like a backup coming from elsewhere
12:24:37  <Flygon> What do you mean?
12:24:54  <Flygon> A train going via?
12:25:34  <V453000> no like a train stored in a depot because it couldnt load previously
12:27:48  <Flygon> Oh, you mean a train going into the depot instead of the station
12:27:54  <Flygon> Then going into the station when there's room?
12:28:03  <Flygon> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/berlin2016.png What I end up using
12:29:07  <NGC3982> Almost the same as me
12:29:29  <Flygon> Ah
12:29:33  <Flygon> Why're we arguing then? :D
12:29:36  <Flygon> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/brusseltransit.png It clearly works :D
12:30:48  <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/suRw3.png
12:30:51  <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/ivXNI.png
12:30:59  <NGC3982> Well
12:31:04  <NGC3982> I guess one could up the anti a bit
12:31:25  <NGC3982> For instance, using entry exit to send trains to a nearby depot when a station is full
12:31:52  <SpComb> hmm... interesting how minecraft compares to openttd in terms of community servers and customizations
12:31:57  <Flygon> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/chicagostation.png Also, why OTTD needs platform selecting :p
12:32:10  <Flygon> I ended up having to turn it into a terminus D:
12:32:26  <SpComb> minecraft has mods/texture packs where openttd has patches/newgrfs, etc
12:32:43  <Flygon> NGC: Your stations are much cleaner than mine
12:32:59  <Flygon> Ragnarok Online just gets plain GRF's :B
12:33:01  <NGC3982> I do not think i use as much traffic.
12:33:08  <Flygon> Pain in the arse to mod, though
12:33:11  <V453000> no, the trains go to depot because station is full, diverted by 2way block signals
12:33:11  <Flygon> Ah, true
12:33:19  <Flygon> You seem focused on cargo, not insane amonts of passenger
12:33:28  <NGC3982> On this map, yes.
12:33:32  <NGC3982> It's on ttd.dndr.se
12:33:38  <NGC3982> If you want to take a looker
12:33:44  <NGC3982> V453000: I see.
12:35:08  <peter1138> So many signals in Berlin?
12:35:53  <Flygon> peter1138: Me being lazy with signal spacing, if you're referring to the 1-ways
12:36:54  <NGC3982> When taking the theoretical spacing between tiles in consideration, that's not that many? ;)
12:37:14  <Flygon> I'm confused now
12:37:52  <Flygon> ...oh wow
12:38:08  <Flygon> Why do I have a 6 track segment on this map @_@"
12:38:34  <Flygon> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Flurrail27.sav Here, go laugh at my insanely lazy rail network design :p
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14:40:39  <Belugas> hello
14:41:33  <Nat_aS> hi
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15:47:40  <planetmaker> SpComb, so... doesn't any game which allows to load add-ons / modpacks and which is opensource have these two kind of game modifications?
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15:52:16  <andythenorth> lo
15:55:09  <SpComb> planetmaker: sure, but there are still differences
15:57:09  <andythenorth> I doubt it
15:57:16  <andythenorth> whatever it is :)
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15:58:09  <andythenorth> o sorry, /me is trolling :P
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16:10:08  <sponge> Is there a way to prevent a train from starting moving towards a green exit signal only to have it turn red at the last millisecond by a train using the connection track?
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16:11:00  <sponge> I keep using pbs because it sometimes blocks two tracks while this is happening.
16:12:21  <Pinkbeast> The train is no worse off for doing so, surely
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16:20:38  <planetmaker> sponge, not sure what setup you refer to... signals work exactly by their defined logic. Exit signals, mind, don't make sense, if not preceeded by an entry signal
16:20:54  <planetmaker> (or by a combination of combo and entry signals)
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16:22:39  <V453000> pm that happens when 2 comboes lead to 1 signal block
16:22:58  <V453000> both trains at both entry signals leading to the comboes wait at the same time, both start at the same time, but only one can go through ofc
16:23:11  <planetmaker> of course
16:23:22  <planetmaker> I mean... *you* know how they work ;-)
16:23:46  <planetmaker> all I wanted to say is: they work as specified. If you make a bad design... your problem :-)
16:24:00  <planetmaker> their purpose is to show red, if the block behind them is occupied
16:24:27  <planetmaker> and there are ways to construct your signal block so that only one train will enter the whole cascade
16:24:35  <planetmaker> albeit a bit more complex possibly
16:25:12  <planetmaker> which then, of course, could simply also be broken down to only using one signal block, if you don't want a train to stop an intermediate signal at all
16:25:28  <planetmaker> </monologue> :-P
16:26:17  <V453000> :P
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18:22:12  <Alberth> hi hi
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18:36:03  <Terkhen> hello
18:36:21  <frosch123> hola terkhen :)
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18:40:12  <Alberth> quak
18:41:18  <andythenorth> quak quak quak
18:41:42  <frosch123> moin :p
18:41:56  <andythenorth> still sounds like a duck to me :P
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19:17:13  <andythenorth> compile on first attempt was too much to hope for :P
19:21:02  <Alberth> a good target to aim for :p
19:21:53  <andythenorth> I've failed 7 so far :P
19:22:26  <andythenorth> compile takes so long I start reading news or whatever on the web
19:22:31  <andythenorth> then I forget my place :p
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19:55:43  <Wolf01> hello o/
19:57:18  <andythenorth> \o
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20:07:39  <Alberth> o/
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20:45:08  * andythenorth pub
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21:50:51  <frosch123> night
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21:50:56  <Markk> nite
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22:36:03  <NGC3982> Is there any way to build raw material industries in-game?
22:36:09  <NGC3982> For FIRS, for instance?
22:36:25  <supermop> yes, if the advanced settings are set to allow it
22:37:35  <NGC3982> Oh, i see.
22:37:37  <NGC3982> Snap, i missed that.
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22:40:36  <NGC3982> supermop: Where do i find this setting?
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22:40:46  <NGC3982> I thought that originally was a NewGRF parameter.
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22:44:10  <supermop> in the advanced settings menu i think under the economy tree
22:44:30  <supermop> set to either 'prospecting' or 'as other industries'
22:45:22  <NGC3982> Ah!
22:45:27  <NGC3982> supermop: Thank you, so much. :-)
22:45:33  <supermop> no problem
22:45:58  <supermop> primary industries generally tend to be much more expensive though
22:48:18  <NGC3982> Yes, i noticed.
22:48:40  <NGC3982> When i get to the "end" of a map (2050-ish with no new trains), it feels like a good feature to start building new industries.
22:49:09  <NGC3982> Since with FIRS, good usage always results in a grandé surplus of farm- and engineering supplies.
22:49:12  <NGC3982> :-)
22:49:49  <supermop> which i guess makes sense gameplay wise, but i find it odd that planting a field of pine trees cost 1-2 orders of magnitude more than building a steel mill
22:50:04  <NGC3982> Hehe
23:04:02  <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/6BOKx.png
23:04:13  <NGC3982> Can someone remind me to send this to Andy when he returns (sober).
23:15:03  <Eddi|zuHause> looks interesting :)
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23:16:49  <NGC3982> The thing is, the artifacts only appear on that tile type
23:17:08  <NGC3982> As far as i have tried.
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23:53:29  <Wolf01> 'night
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