Log for #openttd on 27th November 2012:
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02:46:59  <ccfreak2k> Sober? Well, I could try.
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11:52:28  <drac_boy> hi
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11:58:36  <Eddi|zuHause> hmzzz... are there forum rules about animatedness of avatars?
11:59:04  <Eddi|zuHause> this new avatar of SkiddLow is driving me crazy from 2 seconds of not looking at it...
12:01:09  <drac_boy> heh
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12:32:24  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: the evolution made the eye extremely perceptive for movements outside the focus of the eye. so animated things make you shift the focus to something that wouldn't usually interest you. that also means trying to avoid shifting the focus takes serious brain-effort
12:33:03  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a thing typically exploited by advertisments or magicians
12:42:23  <Flygon> This is why billboards aren't animated
12:42:37  <Flygon> At least my avatar isn't animated
12:42:45  <Flygon> Just terrifying :P
12:49:13  * drac_boy pokes flygon
12:49:14  <drac_boy> :p
12:52:17  <Flygon> Honk
12:52:25  <Flygon> Well
12:52:37  <Flygon> I worked today, drac_boy :D
13:10:11  * drac_boy pokes flygon in chest
13:10:14  <drac_boy> so...what doing now?
13:10:31  <Flygon> Beep
13:10:32  <Flygon> Well
13:10:35  <Flygon> I had been working on images
13:10:38  <Flygon> But now I'm idling
13:15:54  <drac_boy> flygon here's another one for know about double end cab locomotives?
13:16:49  <Flygon> Yes
13:16:53  <Flygon> Australia has a lot of those
13:17:12  <peter1138> BR Class 91!"
13:17:26  <drac_boy> flygon well there was one railroad in usa for a while ... they were the only single exception to all the typical single-cab things :P
13:17:32  <drac_boy>
13:18:07  <drac_boy> probably only wanted a single unit rather than the usual two back-to-back E's
13:18:14  <Flygon> Looks like a local class :)
13:19:04  <drac_boy> and flygon not sure what terms australia had/stillhave but you ever heard of 'transfer locomotive'?
13:19:06  <Flygon> In fact, it's probably based off the one you linked to
13:19:18  <Flygon> (considering it was originally built in the 50s...)
13:20:12  <Flygon> Transfer locomotive?
13:20:17  <Flygon> Might wanna brush me up on that
13:20:47  <drac_boy> flygon yeah it was lot of horsepower but low gears ... baically could clear out one yard only to dump everything into another yard
13:21:07  <Flygon> Ahh
13:21:13  <drac_boy> rarely found on mainline because of their crappy speeds
13:21:22  <Flygon> I've never heard of those being used in Australia (or, at least, Victoria)
13:21:28  <Flygon> Not practical to use a gearbox?
13:22:12  <Pinkbeast> Beyond gearing, you've got to make more of the drivetrain different for high speeds - not worth it?
13:22:33  <Flygon> Oh, I can see the issue
13:22:58  <Flygon> I always thought it'd be more cost effective to have mutli-purpose locomotives, either way
13:23:18  <Flygon> Then again, Victorian Railways were nitorious for using shunters for commuter passenger routes...
13:23:28  <drac_boy> flygon heres one of the big example  two large (or four probably) engines ... center cab for visibility ... and heavy C trucks
13:23:55  <Flygon> Is that the 40km/h one from the 2CC set?
13:24:04  <drac_boy> probably had more than 3000hp easily .. and top speed would be I think like 30-40mph ... I did say they were yard units so all that low gear
13:24:26  <drac_boy> you would had needed more than three GP units to equal one of these in the yard
13:25:17  <Flygon> Oh wow o.o
13:25:23  <drac_boy> flygon if you had heard of the silly expression "everything except the kitchen sink" .. thats exactly what THESE goats were built for :)
13:25:23  <Flygon> That's immense
13:26:31  <Flygon> All Victorian Railways really used was a shitload of 1500-2500hp Diesels, and... that's about it
13:26:45  <drac_boy> flygon of course for smaller yards or more mundant 10-20 wagons shoves you would had rather bought into the EMD SW1200 or anything similar from alco/baldwin
13:27:08  <Flygon> On one hand, everything was homogenous and could be used for anything. On the otherhand, everything was homogenous, and you ended up using a lot of fuel chaining Diesels together for DMU operation. :P
13:28:11  <Flygon> Victoria has slow underpowered trains, America doesn't understand the meaning of underpowered :D
13:28:23  <drac_boy> flygon..actually they do
13:28:29  <Flygon> American cars have more horsepower than this thing :p
13:28:35  <drac_boy> its called 'doubling the hill' ... happened during steam era just as well
13:29:05  <drac_boy> and well...they were quite rare (hence no stories shared about them so far) but sometimes tripling did happen too
13:29:19  <Pinkbeast> "M is for Midland with engines galore, two on each train and begging for more."
13:30:00  <drac_boy> oh that reminds me flygon...there was a slight funny story....
13:30:22  <Flygon> Ahh
13:30:26  <Flygon> Doubling for hills...
13:30:31  <drac_boy> E diesel units bring train into station and switch with the GG1 as usual .. no problem .. train goes off on its usual schedule ...
13:30:34  <Flygon> Here, you'd just double head for the entire trip
13:30:53  <Flygon> It did look very odd for two different class steam locomotives to work in MU operation, though
13:31:16  <drac_boy> a few stations later it failed to leave the platform ... so they get an E44 (freight electrics at the time) ... but it was not too long later that this even failed too ....
13:31:24  <Flygon> Wow
13:31:58  <drac_boy> protection engine bought up from the nearby tunnel route to haul the train in toward last station ... and even then they had a problem getting all brakes to release at same time till a ballhammer did the trick ..and the odd trio left the consist behind for to the engine yard
13:32:07  <Eddi|zuHause> "fun fact": an american/british horsepower is more than a german one :)
13:32:16  <drac_boy> and heres the weird thing .. the rider noted that this was friday the 13th ... !
13:32:25  <drac_boy> he asked ... "did the 13th do these units in?"
13:32:34  <Eddi|zuHause> "imperial" horsepower: 745W, "metric" horsepower: 735W
13:32:35  <drac_boy> who is going to know tho :)
13:32:49  <drac_boy> flygon so...there..interesting northeast corridor story :)
13:33:24  <Flygon> Define north-east
13:34:07  <Flygon> Victoria's North-East corridor has all sorts of interesting stories... most modern ones pertain to ballast being replaced every 12 months and causing even more ballast to sink into the ground, because the Governments be too lazy to fund reconstruction of the track :P
13:34:46  <drac_boy> flygon well ... double head does not help if you're having throttle and/or wet rails issues
13:35:41  <Flygon> Of course
13:38:22  <drac_boy> flygon mind you....
13:39:32  <drac_boy> some diesel locomotives had their own characters ... the Alco PA was riding on A1A trucks meaning it didn't have the full tractive drive weight compared to B trucks ... but ... they were rather gutsy enough to be able to hold down normal assignments on the santa fe mountains .. even a few years with Super Chief consists too
13:40:12  <Flygon> o.o Nice
13:40:25  <drac_boy> or the baldwin sharknoses being only 1600hp but they had much more tractive than you normally would think they had .. they had a weird hp-to-traction ratio
13:40:50  <drac_boy> used to be a few stories of a sharknose-banked train actually shoving into the lead units up front .... !!!
13:42:40  <drac_boy> and the baldwin DS switcher could shove a heavy train with them .. and they'll burn their traction wires hot ... but let it cool down .... and it'll still do the same job again ... goddamn these overbuilt things :)
13:44:55  <drac_boy> anyway flygon I need to go for a while, not too sure when I'll even be back anyway
13:44:58  <drac_boy> see you another time ok?
13:45:35  <Flygon> drac_boy, 1600hp isn't that low :p
13:45:41  <Flygon> Have fun!
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14:43:01  <Belugas> hello
14:43:40  <supermop> hi
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16:46:58  <jjavaholic> is it possible to disable inflation?
16:50:10  <Pinkbeast> yes
16:50:28  <Pinkbeast> But it is not possible to change it in a running game, I believe.
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18:10:17  <DanMacK> Hey all
18:11:06  <Eddi|zuHause> you can stop the inflation during the game, but you cannot revert its effect
18:12:43  <DanMacK> Instead of stopping it entirely is there a way to limit the increase?
18:12:59  <DanMacK> A patch for the percentage perhaps?
18:15:18  <frosch123> there is a setting for it :p
18:15:28  <supermop> deflation?
18:15:29  <frosch123> but it is not so easy to decide which value is the easiest
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18:24:06  <Zuu> V453000: Is there a reason why the universal wagons of NUTS doesn't have some parameter worse than the non-universal wagon of the same generation? Eg. lower capacity, slower loading, more expansive or even being intruduced later.
18:25:49  <V453000> well yeah, there is no reason to do that either :)
18:26:51  <V453000> if you for any reason need to use universal wagons, it means that it is a structural reason in your network
18:27:13  <V453000> having them unavailable at any point would mean you would have to resctructuralize it later to that
18:27:33  <V453000> having them weaker by stats doesnt seem needed, they are the same wagons
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18:28:08  <Zuu> I meant that if they are needed, that is because you see a benefit of structuring your network that way.
18:28:49  <Zuu> Since they have a benefit of being universal, shouldn't that come with a cost to make it a tactical desicion on when to use them?
18:28:50  <V453000> well yeah but I dont see any reason to purposedly cripple that :)
18:29:01  <V453000> no they are just a tool :)
18:30:20  <Zuu> Anyway, I don't think I can convince you to do anything else than what you beleive in. :-) At least the universal wagons need that you send the wagons to a depot to refit and not just magically refit at stations for free.
18:30:46  <V453000> well yeah I guess I already told you what I think about autorefit :p
18:31:31  <V453000> I see your argument though. If I would want to apply some competition between wagons, I would do something like an extra wagon class with extra high capacity but extremely long loading times.
18:31:32  <Zuu> Not that I recall. However, you have told me other things while sounding very convinced about your opinion.
18:31:59  <V453000> hm that I usually do :p
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18:32:41  <V453000> btw non-universal wagons do have some extra graphical features like randomized stripes
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18:32:47  <V453000> but only some of them
18:34:26  <V453000> by the way, I am going to add gold/valuables/diamonds to cargo wagons too Zuu :P
18:34:58  <frosch123> yay, debug vehicles is approaching 14k downloads :p
18:35:52  <Zuu> :-)
18:36:34  <frosch123> so many developers :)
18:36:38  <V453000> :D
18:36:45  <V453000> or people downloading ALL the shit they get to :P
18:36:56  <NGC3982> <-
18:38:31  <Zuu> SuperLib in total (AI+Gs) is about 10k downloads for reaching 1M.
18:39:03  <frosch123> you mean all versions combined?
18:39:07  <Zuu> yep
18:39:16  <frosch123> since binaryheap is only at 500k
18:40:39  <Zuu> Yep, it is a qutie vague figure given the several versions.
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18:41:18  <loic> Merci je viens de gagner 1300 euros sur le site jackpotparis com aux machines a sous avec 25 euros gratuit
18:41:42  <planetmaker> @kban loic
18:42:10  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*@] by planetmaker
18:42:15  <planetmaker> @kick loic
18:42:34  <planetmaker> @whoami
18:42:34  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: I don't recognize you.
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18:43:02  <planetmaker> stupid DorpsGek
18:43:04  <ntoskrnl> it's a thai IP, probably a proxy
18:43:21  <planetmaker> bad luck ;-)
18:43:49  * planetmaker -> sports
18:43:53  <NGC3982> Sports?
18:43:54  <NGC3982> Jeez.
18:44:03  <frosch123> e-sports :)
18:44:23  <Zuu> OpenTTD Olympics :-)
18:46:13  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24766 /trunk/src/lang (11 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-27 18:45:56 UTC)
18:46:14  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:15  <DorpsGek> basque - 51 changes by lutxiketa
18:46:16  <DorpsGek> catalan - 5 changes by arnau
18:46:17  <DorpsGek> dutch - 5 changes by habell
18:46:18  <DorpsGek> english_US - 5 changes by Rubidium
18:46:19  <DorpsGek> esperanto - 11 changes by Joncst
18:46:20  <DorpsGek> french - 11 changes by gromlin
18:46:21  <DorpsGek> italian - 5 changes by lorenzodv
18:46:22  <DorpsGek> latvian - 5 changes by Parastais
18:46:23  <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 46 changes by Stabilitronas
18:46:24  <DorpsGek> polish - 5 changes by wojteks86
18:46:25  <DorpsGek> portuguese - 8 changes by skkeeper
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18:57:13  <V453000> Zuu: this is what happens if you USE universal wagons :P
18:57:41  <V453000> stats dont matter
18:58:10  <Rubidium> oh... looks like you want more orders ;)
18:58:13  <frosch123> is that the maximum number of orders for a single order list?
18:58:27  <V453000> yes of course, has to be filled up otherwise implicit orders show up
18:58:51  <frosch123> Rubidium: sounds like a good reason to increase the limit :p
18:59:12  <V453000> lol :d
18:59:48  <V453000> well the main problem we had last game was when we had 255 implicit orders on every train, we quickly reached the total global maximum of orders
19:00:15  <Zuu> V453000: Reminds me of the AI that solved the reverse travel salesman problem to fill the order list. It ran out of orders.
19:00:21  <frosch123> why would they take more space than the manual orders?
19:00:32  <V453000> :)
19:00:47  <V453000> frosch123: because there was 255 of them on every single train
19:01:00  <V453000> and every implicit order apparently counted as one
19:01:17  <frosch123> you mean you did not share orders?
19:01:23  <V453000> we did
19:01:26  <V453000> we always do
19:01:47  <V453000> every shared train can have different implicit orders afaik though
19:02:04  <frosch123> i doubt that :p
19:02:56  <V453000> I dont see how would we reach the maximum of orders if it wouldnt apply
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19:07:30  <V453000> hm they seem to share them
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19:07:35  <V453000> then I really wonder how did we manage that
19:08:09  <V453000> either way, implicit orders are evil.
19:08:12  <Rubidium> not sharing the orders in the first place?
19:08:24  <V453000> that is quite unlikely
19:09:02  <Rubidium> they're evil since nobody committed .*c.*d.* yet
19:09:17  <frosch123> and noone coded filtering :)
19:10:29  <V453000> evil. :) but yeah we solve that simply by the order spam so not a big issue
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19:18:52  <Rubidium> looks like someone's Windows crashed ;)
19:20:01  <frosch123> it can get quite cold in winter, when your windows are broken
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21:21:06  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24767 trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp (2012-11-27 21:21:01 UTC)
21:21:07  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Remove some fragile hacks from the multiplayer list who tried to disguised themself as optimisations.
21:30:50  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24768 trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp (2012-11-27 21:30:44 UTC)
21:30:51  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Adjust a comment to reflect some more truth.
21:31:11  <planetmaker> @ports
21:31:11  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
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21:35:58  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24769 /trunk/src (5 files in 5 dirs) (2012-11-27 21:35:52 UTC)
21:35:59  <DorpsGek> -Feature [FS#3852]: Add a string filter to the server list. (Eagle_rainbow)
21:37:21  <planetmaker> \o/
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21:54:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24770 trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp (2012-11-27 21:54:11 UTC)
21:54:18  <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish: Calling GUIList::Sort repeatedly has no use without GUIList::NeedResort since the latter has the sideeffects.
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22:04:49  <frosch123> night
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22:21:26  <Superuser> hey y'all
22:22:11  <Superuser> been translating OpenTTD again (and I just introduced a guy to it on #freegamer on (open source games from the FreeGamer blog) to OpenTTD!!!)
22:22:20  <Superuser> I noticed many translators opt to use the currency symbols in the menu
22:22:40  <Superuser> my role is mainly QA, so what do you think... should I use the stock market notation (e.g. USD) or just go with $ and £
22:22:59  <Superuser> And yes, it is important to QA even this tiny element. This is for the settings menu by the way
22:24:39  <planetmaker> what strings do you mean?
22:24:50  <Superuser>
22:24:57  <Superuser> as an example.
22:25:14  <Superuser> English uses the stock market symbols, though many, many translations don't for the most common ones
22:25:32  <Superuser> must QA everything to the point of developing OCD. What do you think?
22:25:34  <planetmaker> well. choice of translators, I'd say
22:26:07  <planetmaker> should be what people rather expect
22:26:17  <planetmaker> of those who speak that language
22:26:38  <Superuser> I'll just go with USD and stuff, so not to give any undue weight to any currency
22:26:52  <Superuser> though the reality is that 'reserve currencies' (google it) exist
22:27:11  <Superuser> nevertheless, I'll go with the SERIOUS BUSINESS approach of using that notation for everything, because it's a SERIOUS BUSINESS game
22:27:23  <planetmaker> Superuser, as far as I'm aware, most (all?) currency symbols should be available...
22:27:35  <planetmaker> of the existing currencies of course
22:27:43  <planetmaker> or contemporary ones
22:29:26  <Superuser> <YumCake>MY BUS IS GOING Evropi <YumCake>IS FUCKING MOVING <YumCake>CITIZENS CELEBRATE
22:29:50  <Superuser> Another customer satisfied :        )
22:29:54  <Superuser> :  )
22:29:56  <Superuser> :        )
22:29:58  <Superuser> :                )
22:33:18  <planetmaker> ehm...
22:33:25  <Supercheese> :?
22:33:47  <Superuser> Context: <Superuser>been translating OpenTTD again (and I just introduced a guy to it on #freegamer on (open source games from the FreeGamer blog) to OpenTTD!!!)
22:34:44  <Superuser> This is the FreeGamer blog by the way:
22:35:51  <Superuser> It's a very popular blog in OSS game development I should mention.
22:36:13  <Supercheese> Oh sweet, a Heroes of Might and Magic 3 open source reimplementation
22:36:21  <Supercheese> I loved that game when I was a lad
22:36:26  <Superuser> not oriented towards developers though, it rarely talks about technical aspects, mostly highlights cool games and talks about how to build a community etc
22:36:34  <Superuser> yeah, one of my favourite games of all time actualyl!
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23:13:58  <Superuser> TUPAC ALIVE IN SERBIA:::::::::::::
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23:16:46  <plzhelp1> dose any one know how to get a town rateing higher then appalling
23:17:04  <Superuser> bribe them
23:17:09  <Superuser> click on town
23:17:16  <Superuser> may be disable on some difficulty settings.
23:17:24  <Flygon> Nah
23:17:33  <Flygon> Just demolish all the trees
23:17:35  <Flygon> And then plant them
23:18:00  <plzhelp1> tryed all that the town be appalling for about 10 years now
23:18:37  <Flygon> By plant them, I mean, plant excessively until you can plant no more
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23:20:26  <Eddi|zuHause> tree planting only helps if there are no trees on the tile yet
23:20:58  <Eddi|zuHause> so you only have to do it once on a ~20x20 area around the town
23:21:47  <Eddi|zuHause> also: have lots of frequently serviced stations, and don't have infrequently serviced stations
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23:22:47  <plzhelp1> it work now thank you
23:23:24  <Superuser>
23:23:28  <Superuser> congratulations!
23:24:34  <Superuser>
23:24:42  <Superuser> not congratulations at all! 31 errors!
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23:32:03  <plzhelp1> is there any way to build lights in tunnel or brights
23:33:02  <Eddi|zuHause> no-ish
23:33:17  <Superuser> I don't think I've ever actually had to build a tunnel in all my days of playing OpenTTD, lol
23:34:31  <Eddi|zuHause> there's an experimental and hacky patch that won't ever be included that provides something like signals on bridges/tunnels
23:34:55  <Eddi|zuHause> except they don't work together with path signals, and they can't be placed freely, only in fixed intervals
23:36:08  <plzhelp1> ok what is it I try it

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