Log for #openttd on 8th December 2012:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:16:31  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:23:44  *** Sturmi [] has quit [Quit: Sturmi]
00:49:08  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:02:04  *** Devroush36 [] has quit []
01:10:47  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:24:36  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
01:33:47  <Supercheese> Hot damn, one of the biggest lightning strikes I've ever seen just happened
01:33:51  <Supercheese> surprised the power's still on
01:57:49  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:02:48  *** pugi [] has quit []
02:18:05  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye !]
03:21:15  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
03:27:28  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:28:15  *** efess [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:22:00  *** perk11 [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
04:55:50  *** roadt [~roadt@] has joined #openttd
05:21:27  *** efess [] has joined #openttd
05:56:02  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
05:56:20  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
06:09:01  *** tycoondemon2 [] has joined #openttd
06:13:58  *** tycoondemon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:44:19  *** perk11 [] has joined #openttd
07:04:44  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
07:12:42  *** sla_ro|master [slaco@] has joined #openttd
07:37:58  *** DDR_ [] has joined #openttd
07:43:18  *** DDR [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:43:22  *** DDR_ is now known as DDR
07:44:42  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
08:03:56  *** Elukka [] has joined #openttd
08:18:01  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
08:28:48  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
08:29:47  *** DDR_ [] has joined #openttd
08:30:29  <andythenorth> bonsoir
08:35:40  *** DDR [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:35:42  *** DDR_ is now known as DDR
08:37:19  <Rubidium> bonnuit ;)
08:51:36  <dihedral> oi
08:55:57  <Terkhen> good morning
09:02:08  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
09:02:11  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
09:25:33  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:32:34  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
09:34:43  *** DOUK [] has joined #openttd
09:41:55  *** mahmoud [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:50:08  *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@] has joined #openttd
09:51:54  *** valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
10:09:20  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
10:09:27  <Alberth> o/ Wolf01
10:09:32  <Wolf01> hello :D
10:10:33  <Wolf01> finally I was able to change the steam client scrollbars width
10:10:58  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
10:11:05  <Terkhen> linux or windows? :P
10:11:17  <Alberth> true
10:11:35  <Wolf01> windows
10:11:41  *** Supercheese [~Password4@] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]]
10:12:27  <Wolf01> I set the OS scrollbar size to 30px, but steam still had that 19px one, but moved 11px away from the border
10:12:45  <Alberth> lol
10:13:17  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:13:34  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
10:14:06  <Eddi|zuHause> now someone solve my problem with logging in to steam... :/
10:14:43  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
10:15:00  <Eddi|zuHause> it works on windows in a vm, and in linux, but not in wine (anymore)... it's like it's opening a connection, but then not transferring anything
10:15:49  <Wolf01> I know wine has some problems with connections
10:16:05  <Terkhen> the last time I tried to use steam on wine I did not run into any problems; I was going to set it up later
10:16:13  <Wolf01> I have the same problem with a photo printing software on wine
10:18:43  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it worked before
10:18:53  <Eddi|zuHause> and i tried older versions of wine, and it didn't help
10:19:19  <Eddi|zuHause> so it seems to be something on my system that is screwed up
10:19:25  <Eddi|zuHause> but a clean prefix didn't help either
10:21:35  <Wolf01> mine too worked before, but now.. meh
10:31:48  *** NOUK [] has joined #openttd
10:35:32  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
10:37:28  <Alberth> o/ andy
10:38:58  *** DOUK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:44:17  *** Pixa [~pixa@] has joined #openttd
10:45:40  *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:54:27  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
10:56:44  <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: steam on wine does not even show strings for me, so I cannot check if I have the same problem or not
10:56:53  <Terkhen> I'll try to fix that later
10:56:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: start with -no-dwrite
10:57:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: or disable dwrite.dll
10:57:36  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a known problem :)
10:58:47  <Terkhen> oh, ok, thanks :)
10:59:54  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
11:00:31  <Terkhen> "Steam is having problems connecting to the Steam servers" <-- I got this message, but at the second attempt I managed to log in
11:00:35  <Terkhen> it seems to be working fine
11:00:55  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, nobody else seems to have the problem
11:01:09  <Eddi|zuHause> so nobody can help solve it :/
11:01:25  <Terkhen> :(
11:01:43  <Wolf01> did you try to install additional components such the vc runtimes with winetricks?
11:02:17  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i have all those.
11:06:48  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: btw. the vehicle pool was increased from 64k to 1M
11:06:56  <Eddi|zuHause> ah
11:07:01  <Eddi|zuHause> but he said 1.1.1 :)
11:07:22  <frosch123> well, does not matter; i doubt he manages to compile
11:18:14  *** ntoskrnl [] has joined #openttd
11:20:30  *** DDR [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:23:09  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
11:25:47  <TrueBrain> Terkhen: I even get that problem on Windows from time to time .. first time it cannot connect, next time it works just fine ... stupid Steam :(
11:26:32  <Terkhen> given that kind of errors, let's see if they manage to make it work on linux :P
11:26:50  <TrueBrain> define 'work' :D
11:27:02  <Terkhen> I got the beta a few days ago; yesterday I set everything up just to find that steam games do not like bumblebee
11:27:11  <Terkhen> "I can open a game and play"
11:29:23  <MNIM> hmmmh, speaking of steam
11:29:32  <MNIM> how's the announced port coming along?
11:30:13  <Terkhen> it runs fine on my integrated graphics card, but of course 3D intensive games are slow and barely playable
11:30:52  <Terkhen> when I try to run steam on the dedicated graphics card, it is not able to launch any game because it overwrites some system variable that bumblebee wants to use too
11:31:02  <Terkhen> so... no idea :P
11:40:30  <ntoskrnl> Terkhen: temporary files are almost always something to avoid. on the other hand, having a 1MB buffer in memory for the whole PNG may not be a good idea either. isn't stream based IO an option?
11:51:40  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
11:52:56  *** hitenchu [] has joined #openttd
11:55:22  *** roadt_ [~roadt@] has joined #openttd
11:56:35  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
12:02:13  *** roadt [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:18:38  *** pugi [] has joined #openttd
12:29:00  *** Sturmi [] has joined #openttd
12:36:22  *** NOUK [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
12:42:53  *** Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
12:54:52  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
13:20:43  *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@] has joined #openttd
13:55:26  *** Superuser [] has joined #openttd
14:01:28  *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:01:43  *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@] has joined #openttd
14:05:55  *** drac_boy [] has joined #openttd
14:06:04  <drac_boy> hi
14:06:45  <Superuser> hey guys, why is OpenTTD not XDG-compliant? I don't like programs that spam .folders
14:06:56  <drac_boy> xdg?
14:07:18  <Superuser>
14:13:34  <Terkhen> I never heard about that
14:13:50  <drac_boy> superuser I'll give the same answer I give to ms users: NO THANKS
14:14:00  <Terkhen> does that xdg thing have a website somewhere that explains what i tis?
14:14:02  <Terkhen> it is*
14:14:05  <drac_boy> it just causes too many problems for cloned apps with different settings
14:14:15  <drac_boy> but meh :)
14:14:18  <__ln___> but...
14:14:38  <__ln___> but uh oh, it lists Lennart Poettering as one of the authors.
14:14:38  <Superuser> why do you say that drac_boy
14:14:53  <Superuser> and define 'cloned apps'
14:15:20  <ntoskrnl> derivative apps will have a different name and hence also a different config directory
14:15:25  <Superuser> why do people hate Poettering so much? He's the man that solved the UEFI problem (which was slightly overblown, but still important)
14:15:49  <Superuser> are there any *actual* forks of OpenTTD? Be realistic.
14:15:53  *** mahmoud [] has joined #openttd
14:16:54  <drac_boy> ntoskrnl not really...I have a few instances of Gnumeric but clicking each one shows you different presets nevertheless
14:17:05  <__ln___> Superuser: he's the reason that audio still isn't usable on Linux.
14:17:10  <drac_boy> and no its nothing to do with aliases/flags
14:17:21  <Superuser> ALSA you mean? Implementation's fault
14:17:37  <Terkhen> Superuser: feel free to create a flyspray task with this, but my opinion is that if something's not broken we should not change it
14:17:38  <Superuser> distros' fault
14:18:01  <drac_boy> heh terkhen thats rather true
14:18:01  <ntoskrnl> drac_boy: i can't see how this XDG changes anything, the settings are just stored in subfolders instead of directly in ~
14:18:09  <Superuser> It's fucking annoying that programs have since the days of UNIX spammed one's home folder with fuckloads of dot-folders
14:18:20  <Superuser> yeah
14:18:26  <Superuser> it makes things that much cleaner
14:18:28  <drac_boy> superuser so you never ever noticed that ms does it tons worser?
14:18:33  <Superuser> and more predictable
14:18:36  <drac_boy> and yet everyone expect thats the normal
14:18:46  <Superuser> not really, it makes it more predictable
14:18:54  <drac_boy> nope
14:18:57  <Superuser> when I installed hexchat I went to .config and voila it was there
14:19:01  <Superuser> not an ugly xchat2 folder
14:19:07  <__ln___> Superuser: *voilÃ
14:19:32  <Superuser> it makes things more predictable. MS does this in a shit way with Application Data and Local Settings\Application Data
14:19:36  <Superuser> and it's generally confusing
14:19:43  <Terkhen> hmmm...
14:19:59  <Superuser> Most games have reached the unofficial standard of saving to My Documents\My Games though, but I don't think that's official
14:20:01  <__ln___> Superuser: start boycotting applications that don't conform to XDG.
14:20:02  <Superuser> loads of games do it tho
14:20:07  <Terkhen> now that I think of it, IIRC the place where OpenTTD places its configuration can be changed via compilation options
14:20:40  <Terkhen> so you may want to ask the person who packages openttd for your distribution
14:21:02  <Superuser> I got it from the website...
14:21:02  <ntoskrnl> %appdata% is not the user's home folder... it's not the default directory for a shell and users don't see it all the time
14:21:05  <Superuser> a .deb
14:23:01  <Terkhen> if that's the case, feel free to create a flyspray task; I don't know much about how this change would affect distribution packaging, you may get more informed opinions about the feasability of the change there
14:23:16  <Superuser> right?
14:23:45  <Terkhen> bugs.
14:24:06  <Superuser> I predict a WONTFIX label, but I'll go ahead anyway, thanks
14:25:42  <Terkhen> in my opinion it's not a bug :P
14:26:05  <ntoskrnl> yeah, it's just that openttd hasn't yet caught up with a new standard
14:27:12  <drac_boy> and its still messing up with some older ones too..I still can't even run more than one ottd folder on ms ... why? -_-
14:31:01  <Superuser> dum de dum
14:32:20  *** teggi [] has joined #openttd
14:36:13  <frosch123> he, we rejected that years ago :p
14:36:42  <Rubidium> oh... may I write a nice thing about that? ;)
14:36:42  <frosch123> ottd folder is a mixture of recoverable and personal data
14:38:23  <frosch123> as far as i got back then, xdg is for small applications with a single file, or maybe two
14:38:30  <frosch123> ottd has several thousand
14:38:38  <frosch123> at least my ottd install :p
14:39:48  <Terkhen> oh, I assumed that it would be a relatively recent standard :P
14:41:23  <frosch123> well, meanwhile i even have that folder :p
14:41:40  <frosch123> last time it was suggested i did not have it, since no application used it
14:42:00  <frosch123> now there are all the standard desktop things
14:43:00  <Superuser> most proprietary developers don't support it but they don't give a fuck about standards anyway and just place shit in /opt
14:43:50  <ntoskrnl> adobe media server dumps everything in /opt... libraries, configuration, everything
14:44:08  <ntoskrnl> comes with its own openssl and zlib
14:44:10  <Superuser> also, XDG is a desktop standard, so things like .subversion and .gem (Ruby) are still in separate dot-folders
14:44:18  <__ln___> isn't /opt the correct place for shit then?
14:44:19  <Superuser> dear oh dear
14:44:25  <Superuser> well said :)
14:44:30  <Superuser> fuck adobe
14:45:55  <__ln___> ntoskrnl: openssl has a constantly changing ABI, so you can't rely on finding a compatible version on a particular system.
14:46:26  <ntoskrnl> fair enough i guess
14:46:40  <Superuser> still pissed off that kernel developers shat on FatELF
14:46:58  <TinoDidriksen> They could have gone the nVidia route and made a shim to the OS versions.
14:47:05  <Superuser> it would have finally given developers used to Windows' and Mac OS's standardisation that confidence
14:47:32  <__ln___> Superuser: btw, FatELF is currently being considered for Haiku.
14:47:35  <Superuser> but it would help proprietary developers too much. BULLSHIT. Distro release cycles are the cancer killing the Linux desktop
14:48:01  <ntoskrnl> just use freebsd =P
14:48:45  <Superuser> ehh it's being increasingly locked out
14:49:01  <Superuser> companies like RedHat support Linux-specific projects like systemd and wayland
14:49:04  <Terkhen> what's wrong with release cycles?
14:49:05  *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:49:47  <Superuser> Terkhen: consider Ubuntu's 6 month release cycle. It doesn't even let game developers make major updates to their games. I understand if your Apache depended on it, but a game? C'mon.
14:49:50  <frosch123> Terkhen: the compromise between features of today, and stability of in 3 years :p
14:50:17  <Terkhen> switch to a distribution which suits your tastes :P
14:50:30  <Superuser> It assumes all software follows the release cycle of the Linux kernel, for which individual versions are maintained for years on end. That's just false
14:51:19  <Superuser> You're not being realistic Terkhen. Almost all OpenTTD Linux players are on a Debian-based distro, none of which are particularly bleeding-edge.
14:51:39  <Terkhen> I did not say that the distribution which suits your tastes exists
14:51:41  <Superuser> most of them probably get an outdated version from their package manager and play that. They may be disillusioned by it
14:51:56  <Rubidium> how new is that xdg spec actually?
14:52:16  <Terkhen> there is nothing inherently wrong in debian release cycle, it may be good for some users but bad for others
14:52:53  *** Zeknurn [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:53:03  <Superuser> It gives you ancient software. It makes sense for something like a programming language, but not for games. No games follow that release cycle and the latest release version tends to be the greatest
14:53:11  <Terkhen> I do agree that a distribution with a different take on release cycles would be welcome, but I don't think that existing distributions should change their release cycles
14:53:16  <Superuser> very few OSS games offer binaries for Linux, they force users to compile the source
14:53:16  <Terkhen> they have their own philosophies to follow
14:53:39  *** Zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
14:54:08  <Superuser> Nah they should, they are QAing everything and it ain't the right approach. People expect to have the software version talked about on a program's website.
14:54:18  <frosch123> Rubidium: squeeze knows about it, lenny doesn't
14:54:44  <Terkhen> I'm quite sure that debian stable users expect it to be stable :P
14:54:44  <Superuser> In practice, most Ubuntu users for instance (relatively nontechnical) don't understand PPAs and are afraid of the command line
14:55:34  <Superuser> lol yeah, but Debian-stable users tend to be either OSS fanatics or system administrators. Who get shit graphical drivers that can hardly play a game.
14:56:05  <TinoDidriksen> Well then, get OTTD on Steam for Linux!
14:56:08  <Terkhen> why should you force them to change their release schedule then?
14:56:22  <Terkhen> the distribution is not aimed for people with the problems you mention
14:56:23  <Superuser> Because they're killing off potential market share.
14:56:33  *** ntoskrnl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:56:45  <Terkhen> ubuntu may think that it is aimed for the problems you mention, but it is not
14:56:53  <Superuser> My dad always downloads the latest version of OpenOffice on his Windows PC (I moved him to LibreOffice btw)
14:57:23  <Superuser> a lot of people are obsessed with having the latest software. That's why programs on Windows like the filehippo update checker are so popular
14:57:26  <Terkhen> what I'm trying to say is: debian is not wrong, because it does what it is meant to do for its users
14:57:35  <Terkhen> if you want bleeding edge, move to another distribution
14:57:47  <Terkhen> if you want a stable core and bleeding edge on the rest, you may need a new distribution
14:57:52  <Superuser> yes, but debian doesn't go full desktop, it acts as a jack of all trades, but it knows well it's mainly a server distro
14:57:56  <frosch123> [15:56] <Superuser> Because they're killing off potential market share. <- haha, did you ever consider that someone might not be heading for market share?
14:58:08  <Terkhen> but that does not mean that existing distributions are wrong, they do what they are meant to do
14:58:16  <Terkhen> they are just not for everyone
14:58:25  <Terkhen> that's the whole point of having distributions, freedom of choice :P
14:58:31  <Superuser> Indeed, but you're consistently looking at niche distributions
14:58:56  <Superuser> Ubuntu and Linux Mint should definitely try to offer the latest. Mint DOES do this if you file a bug, but someone has to step up and do that.
14:59:01  <Superuser> I don't know about Ubuntu
14:59:40  <Superuser> distros for the mainstream desktop user should definitely follow that approach. If I'm not mistaken, Ubuntu 12.04 still packages 1.15 ;)
15:02:06  <Terkhen> I tried Mint and removed it... why do they have to change my chromium preferences to point to their website? I thought that was limited to windows malware
15:03:43  <Superuser> hehe
15:03:55  <Superuser> I'm glad that DDG is sponsoring them tho :)
15:04:01  <Rubidium> there is only ONE "distribution" that reliably allows you to get the latest version of anything without walking ways that are not the default way for the distribution
15:04:39  <Terkhen> which is? :P
15:04:42  <Rubidium> it also allows you to have perfectly optimised binaries and libraries specific to your hardware and needs; no need for lots of bloat
15:04:49  <Rubidium> Terkhen: obviously LFS
15:04:59  <Terkhen> heh :D
15:05:59  <Superuser> keke
15:06:05  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
15:06:29  <drac_boy> not really ;)
15:06:46  <Terkhen> for now I'm happy with arch, until one of these days I update and I'm greeted by a black screen
15:07:06  <Terkhen> but after trying other distributions I went back to it :P
15:12:23  <Superuser> Rubidium:
15:12:44  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:14:02  <TinoDidriksen> I just don't see the problem. They start with a . for a reason.
15:24:35  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:32:03  *** roadt_ [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:44:26  <Superuser> TinoDidriksen: I have to scroll through literally dozens of these dot-folders. Dozens. Any full-time Linux user has to do this.
15:44:59  <TinoDidriksen> Scroll through when? Only when I do ls -a or turn on displaying hidden files/folders.
15:45:06  <Superuser> The worst part is that package managers by default leave all the dot-shit behind and you have to clean it up. Which I can't be arsed to do with the volume of stuff I install
15:45:12  <Superuser> same
15:45:19  <Superuser> it's a lot of folders man
15:50:02  <Pinkbeast> Why clean it up? It doesn't show up without ls -a and it's tiny.
16:07:27  <drac_boy> pinkbeast I agree...I only see like 6 folders all the times
16:07:32  <drac_boy> six is NOTHING :)
16:08:25  *** Pensacola [] has joined #openttd
16:09:13  <NGC3982> Evening.
16:14:23  <Pinkbeast> Well, I've got a bunch of junk in my home directory, but using a tool that's buggy inasmuch as it shows dotfiles by default and then complaining you can see dotfiles is just making a rod for your own back. :-)
16:18:49  *** valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
16:20:42  <Rubidium> Superuser: I never scroll through dozens of . folders
16:21:55  <Rubidium> what will be annoying is that for the config file I would have to be in .config/openttd/openttd.cfg which is at least 4 keystrokes more than I need now
16:22:53  <Rubidium> also moving files around is a nuisance, especially if you run nightlies *and* stable releases (which isn't uncommon at all)
16:24:34  <Rubidium> furthermore the "where is the config file" is going to be horribly more complicated
16:24:52  <Rubidium> it's not simple $XDF_CONFIG_HOME/openttd nor ~/.config/openttd
16:26:22  <Rubidium> and last, but definitely not least: it breaks portable installations!
16:28:42  <Rubidium> also, how good can a specification be if it doesn't even mention a date of introduction?
16:29:46  <Rubidium> not to mention that *properly* supporting that specification means searching an arbitrary amount of folders for the configuration file
16:30:08  <Rubidium> which will be a lot of fun to debug... NOT
16:31:13  <Superuser> At least you could use SOME parts of the spec
16:31:14  <Rubidium> also, the specifications fail on Windows
16:31:17  <Superuser> like XDG_PICTURES_DIR for Pictures
16:31:34  <Superuser> true, but you use different environment variables on Windows anyway.
16:31:38  <Rubidium> well, I'd go for XDF_OPENTTD_DIR for OpenTTD stuff
16:31:45  <Rubidium> that nicely redirects to ~ ;)
16:31:56  <Rubidium> Superuser: why?
16:32:18  <Superuser> because it is guaranteed to work with every linux distribution
16:32:26  <Superuser> and it is always in the same place
16:32:39  <Superuser> unless the distro changed it ofc
16:32:44  <Rubidium> I doubt that guarantee is made
16:33:08  <Rubidium> and if you implement a specification, you must implement it correctly, not half arsed
16:33:20  <Superuser> Doubt again
16:33:28  <Rubidium> also...
16:33:32  <Rubidium> what does PICTURES mean?
16:33:35  <Rubidium> any .png file?
16:34:03  <Rubidium> by the way, it's not in the specifications
16:34:25  <Superuser> yeah that's the basedir spec
16:34:32  <Superuser> there are other specs that cover this
16:34:49  <Rubidium> so heightmaps belong in PICTURES
16:35:38  <Superuser> Example
16:35:51  <Superuser> no, pictures is where you save screenshots
16:35:51  <Rubidium> really, if someone expects this to be implemented/adopted, they should write a simple library for that
16:36:04  <Superuser> you just use environment variables, much easier than a library...
16:36:05  <Rubidium> says who? what specification?
16:36:28  <Superuser> ?
16:36:28  <Rubidium> Superuser: yes... much easier... right
16:37:01  <Superuser> so I guess you won't do this.
16:37:02  <Rubidium> I'd want a get_xdg_config_path("openttd/openttd.cfg") that does all tricky stuff for me
16:37:19  <Rubidium> as currently I would have to:
16:37:30  <Rubidium> a) read an environment variable
16:37:42  <Rubidium> b) if that variable exist, make sure it is a proper absolute path
16:38:21  <Superuser> b is false, they all have defaults
16:38:31  <Superuser> so you can just leave it null
16:38:33  <Rubidium> c) if it doesn't exist, read the HOME environment variable, if that doesn't exist use getpwuid(getuid)->pwdir or fail
16:39:11  <Rubidium> d) if the file is not there, I would have to read another environment variable, split that on colons and test all those folders as well
16:39:31  <Superuser> standardisation hurts.
16:39:37  <Rubidium> which is loads and loads of stupid work that each and every person implementing this needs to do
16:40:08  <Rubidium> so... it NEEDS a simple library that handles all the crap and corner cases
16:40:31  <Superuser> how many lines would you actually have to change? There are like 30 config files with a clean install
16:40:32  <Rubidium> prefereably one that allows inserting custom search folders as well
16:41:11  *** Pensacola [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:41:33  <Rubidium> it's not changing, it's adding
16:42:08  <Rubidium> and splitting the single set of paths three or four times
16:42:29  <Rubidium> and basically breaking portable installs of OpenTTD
16:42:35  <Rubidium> not to mention the current ones
16:42:44  <Rubidium> unless we keep the $HOME fallback
16:43:03  <Superuser> which breaks portable installs too.
16:43:10  <Rubidium> and just keep everything and dump all the 'new' crap into the .config directory
16:44:03  <Rubidium> Superuser: no, one could add a single!!! location for all files of OpenTTD to the search path without breaking stuff
16:44:59  <Rubidium> this would imply that it would not migrate to the xdg crap immediately though; only when the user does it manually or when (s)he trashes the ~/.openttd folder
16:45:17  <Rubidium> otherwise it will still keep using the .openttd folder (if the config file is already there)
16:45:26  <Rubidium> for new installs it would use the .config directory
16:45:38  <Rubidium> ... but we would be equally violating the specifications
16:46:06  <Superuser> wouldn't providing a bash script with a nice little mv -f do the trick?
16:46:19  <Rubidium> for who?
16:46:30  <Rubidium> not for $noob
16:46:31  <Superuser> everyone upgrading to openttd 1.3
16:46:39  <Rubidium> not for $dev
16:46:50  <Superuser> for $inbetween?
16:46:52  <Rubidium> not for $advanced_user_using_multiple_versions
16:47:01  <Alberth> for all windows users, of course
16:47:04  <Superuser> do people actually do that?
16:47:10  * Alberth raises hand
16:47:13  <Rubidium> Superuser: use multiple versions?
16:47:20  <Superuser> yes
16:47:54  <Terkhen> devs do it all the time, as does everyone who wants to play online in stable servers and single player with nightlies
16:47:56  <Rubidium> nah, roughly all translators and 'geeks' that want to have the newest version and play multiplayer at a time
16:48:01  <Superuser> I wonder why, lol, I think there are some NewGRF incompatibilities between >=1.2 and <1.2
16:48:45  <Terkhen> allowing NewGRF incompatibilities belongs to NewGRF utopia :P
16:49:33  <Pinkbeast> Anyone trying to decide which patchpack they like (raising my own hand)
16:49:59  <Rubidium> Superuser: who said 1.1.x and 1.2.x together?
16:50:13  <Rubidium> I'm talking about nightlies, patchpacks and the likes
16:50:46  <Superuser> ah I see
16:50:59  <Superuser> ok then, no xdg compliance
16:51:02  <Superuser> meh
16:51:20  <Superuser> still, you're doing it wrong, as 4chan would say
16:54:07  <frosch123> you should stop reading 4chan, and read xkcd instead
16:54:11  <Rubidium> no, we're not doing it wrong
16:54:26  <Rubidium> doing something wrong implies doing something
16:54:42  <Superuser> yes, you are actively opposing the standard
16:54:45  <Superuser> doing
16:55:03  <Rubidium> and I would actually reckon that most custom implementations of said specifications have not implemented it correctly
16:55:12  <Superuser> FUD
16:55:27  <Rubidium> oh... a specification of less than a year old is now already a standard?
16:55:35  <Rubidium> by whom's authority?
16:56:13  <Rubidium> as I see it... by gnome
16:56:24  <Terkhen> urgh :P
16:57:05  <Superuser> except that KDE, LXDE and Xfce are also fully compliant :P
16:57:13  <Superuser> and a bunch of software.
16:59:06  <Rubidium> I'm not opposed to the standard, I'm opposed to manually implementing the standard to get the right path
16:59:16  <Rubidium> as I said, it involves quite a bit of complexity
17:01:34  <Rubidium> and for what it's worth, we comply with the unix file system "standard"
17:04:51  *** snorre [] has joined #openttd
17:08:01  <Rubidium> also, we comply with the FHS (file hierarchy standard) and LSB (Linux standard base)
17:18:36  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24800 trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp (2012-12-08 17:18:30 UTC)
17:18:37  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5327] (r21933): Glitch in timetable GUI. (sbr)
17:18:58  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24801 /trunk/src (18 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-08 17:18:51 UTC)
17:18:59  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Add functions to set integral DParams to suitable values for size computations.
17:19:04  *** drac_boy [] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!]
17:19:15  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24802 trunk/src/news_gui.cpp (2012-12-08 17:19:09 UTC)
17:19:16  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#4224]: When displaying the previous news message, don't consider news which are turned off.
17:23:24  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
17:30:38  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:43:24  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
18:02:43  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
18:20:46  *** Devroush [] has joined #openttd
18:25:33  *** Sturmi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:39:12  * dihedral thinks r25k should be worth a party ^^
18:43:56  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
18:44:21  <andythenorth> bonjour
18:45:37  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24803 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2012-12-08 18:45:27 UTC)
18:45:39  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:40  <DorpsGek> basque - 82 changes by lutxiketa
18:45:41  <DorpsGek> latvian - 9 changes by Parastais
18:45:42  <DorpsGek> spanish - 66 changes by Terkhen
18:45:43  <DorpsGek> ukrainian - 1 changes by edd_k
18:47:32  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
18:51:32  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
18:51:55  <supermop> andythenorth: what's a good pixel drawing program for osx?
18:52:15  <supermop> flying to london in a couple hours and only taking my work computer
18:52:24  <supermop> want to draw sprites on the flight
18:54:11  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
18:54:49  *** LordPixaII [] has joined #openttd
19:00:35  *** Pixa [~pixa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:11:22  <andythenorth> supermop: photostrop
19:11:28  <andythenorth> and it's cold in London, have a coat
19:11:33  <andythenorth> at least I assume it's cold
19:11:35  <andythenorth> it's cold here
19:12:40  <frosch123> isn't it supposed to be rainy?
19:13:27  *** Sturmi [] has joined #openttd
19:14:53  <andythenorth> dunno
19:16:06  <andythenorth> meh
19:16:08  <andythenorth> nothing in forums
19:17:32  <frosch123> at lot of nothingness might indicate invisible unicorns
19:18:18  <andythenorth> as I can't seee any, they must be there
19:46:59  *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@] has joined #openttd
19:54:58  *** lucaspiller_ [] has joined #openttd
19:57:57  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
19:58:00  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
20:00:34  *** CornishPasty [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:00:34  *** lucaspiller [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:00:55  *** lucaspiller_ is now known as lucaspiller
20:01:19  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
20:28:15  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
20:40:00  *** CornishPasty [] has joined #openttd
20:45:47  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
20:47:55  *** snorre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:49:33  <supermop> andythenorth: free and that i can get in the next 30 minutes
20:49:46  <andythenorth> photoshop CS trial version?
20:50:25  <andythenorth> seashore is gimp compatible, but kills battery on my mac
20:50:55  <andythenorth> supermop:
20:51:24  *** snorre [] has joined #openttd
20:51:40  <andythenorth>
20:52:14  <andythenorth> supermop: paintbrush looks ok
20:52:22  <andythenorth> no way to load a palette afaict
20:53:15  <supermop> ah hmm
20:53:24  <supermop> can load into ps when i get home
20:53:53  <andythenorth> supermop:
20:53:57  <andythenorth> pixel specific :o
20:54:26  <andythenorth>
20:54:30  <andythenorth> also pixel specific
20:55:18  <andythenorth> pixen loaded my dos palette ok (CLUT file)
20:55:57  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
21:04:04  *** hitenchu [] has left #openttd []
21:14:55  <supermop> ahh hmm paid app
21:16:26  <andythenorth> free beta?
21:16:33  <andythenorth> I just googled them tbh :)
21:17:01  <supermop> heh
21:17:30  <supermop> hmm mypaint?
21:21:07  *** oskari892 [] has joined #openttd
21:22:30  <andythenorth> looks a bit pressure-brush orientated
21:22:34  <andythenorth> can probably do pixels :P
21:27:31  *** tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
21:27:34  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
21:27:57  <supermop> ok headed to jfk before too long
21:28:16  <supermop> can't decide if i want to use taxi or subway
21:28:40  *** oskari89 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:33:40  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:37:53  *** sla_ro|master [slaco@] has quit [Quit: DANGER is OFFLINE DANGER]
21:40:01  <Superuser>
21:40:04  <Superuser> AMERICA FUCK YEAH
21:41:12  *** Psyk [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
21:41:26  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
21:45:36  <Rubidium> pff... that's probably just self defence (under US law)
21:48:30  *** Psyk [] has joined #openttd
21:53:24  <kjetil_> MURICA!
22:02:47  <Wolf01> oh god why...
22:05:54  *** Superuser [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:13:27  <Rubidium> Wolf01: to forget the recent remake crap of such stuff?
22:14:40  <Psyk> oh... transformed thomas is even more annoying than normal thomas
22:16:02  <Wolf01> to be honest I was viewing some scenes of the 1986 Transformers series when that... thing... appeared on the related
22:19:51  <Psyk> i have never seen any transformers stuff, is it worth watching?
22:30:06  <Wolf01> when I was a child they were over the top, they seem so silly now...
22:37:11  <Psyk> it looks funny
22:37:47  *** oskari892 [] has quit []
22:54:10  *** Supercheese [~Password4@] has joined #openttd
23:21:27  <Wolf01> 'night all
23:21:30  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:24:03  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:29:22  <JamesGo> Has anyone tried running OpenTTD on RISC OS?  I built 1.2.3 and the latest CargoDist using the RiscPkg AutoBuilder, they both run well apart from the long startup time
23:35:26  *** Elukka [] has quit []
23:42:44  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:44:18  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk