Log for #openttd on 18th December 2012:
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00:01:46  <drac_boy> about industries I still have to see anything regarding this but can you specify custom build before/after dates or is it only 1950 and 1960 respectly?
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00:25:32  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: yes, you can modify the appearance probabilites by callback based on year and you can prevent industry construction by callback also
00:26:35  <hnk> why are all the captains drunk?
00:26:46  <drac_boy> hmm building a new futuristic plant in 2030 could had been something .. maybe chemicals + steel = hovercrafts (instead of just plain road vehicles) :P
00:26:55  <drac_boy> not my kind of things tho ;)
00:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: keep in mind that you'd be dragging a useless cargo through the centures then
00:29:25  <drac_boy> yeah theres that
00:30:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and 32 cargos are too many anyway
00:41:29  <drac_boy> dumb answer: who said you had to use all 32?
00:41:30  <drac_boy> ;)
01:03:10  <drac_boy> is this wikipage even going anywhere anyway? last editted jan 2012 and only one author is even listed
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01:46:12  <drac_boy> seem like it doesn't matter...anyone just using their own random ids anyway apparently
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02:02:47  * Flygon shakes drac_boy
02:04:33  * drac_boy dumps flygon into a cement mixer for a better shake
02:04:38  <drac_boy> heh heh how're you?
02:05:13  <Flygon> I'm well enough
02:05:15  <Flygon> You mate?
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02:08:02  <drac_boy> doing ok
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02:13:19  <Flygon> Awesome
02:13:45  <drac_boy> flygon you know how sometimes they build rather simple wood bridges over a track as to avoid having to make a crossing especially if its only for foot traffics? and far away from any apparent stations too
02:14:03  <Flygon> We prefer concrete bridges here :P
02:14:07  <Flygon> But, go on
02:15:32  <drac_boy> well sometimes they have their own interesting story .. as one article quoted "...engine was working hard as we went underneath the footbridge. you could see the planks rising upward from all that force!"
02:15:49  <drac_boy> either the nails were old .. or someone forgot to nail them down in the first place and gravity did a number heh :)
02:16:10  <Flygon> Proooobably why we use Steel-Concrete bridges :p
02:16:17  <drac_boy> the pressure from a smokestack even on small locomotive says something especially if theres little clearance
02:16:49  <Flygon> Reminds me of the big hill tunnel story, where the R-class came out with bricks on the boiler :p
02:17:06  <drac_boy> and flygon about smoke .. nothing like a heavy train stopped on a curve slight uphill at red signal .. and makes a 30+ft black plume into the sky as it restarts
02:17:32  <drac_boy> that was how much pressure some of the most modern 4-coupled locomotives could create......!!
02:18:07  <drac_boy> very few people actually took photos like these tho
02:18:09  <Flygon> Hahaha... I know EXACTLY what you mean
02:18:37  <drac_boy> :)
02:18:43  <Flygon> Oil fired R-class billow INSANE amounts of smoke when restating
02:18:53  <Flygon> I guess they push the burner to full throttle
02:21:04  <drac_boy> flygon oh and its not easy to find photos of them because they're not captioned with this at times but .. if you're on a good grade and see a train coming toward you with apparently three sources of upward steam plumes .. its not you losing your sight .... just wait for it to start passing you and more than likely the third plume was coming from the tender after all ;)
02:21:15  <drac_boy> want take a guessing why or shall i tell you? :P
02:21:42  <Flygon> Shoot
02:22:45  <drac_boy> tender boosters. more than often found on locomotives serving lines that were more after just getting a lot of tonnage over rather than speed
02:23:20  <Flygon> Oooh, I see
02:23:30  <drac_boy> at 40km/h a good part of the steam pressure isn't able to do much so...divert it to tender boosters ... clever
02:24:41  <drac_boy> I know I saw one photo somewhere before... two medium sized 2-6-2 heading uphill with six plumes in the works :P
02:25:05  <drac_boy> I don't know why but some tenders had the booster on first truck .. other on second truck
02:25:14  <drac_boy> might depend on the stroker space probably
02:27:08  <drac_boy> heres one such locomotive flygon  hope you can see the small siderods ;)
02:27:29  <Flygon> It seems like a maintainence nightmare
02:28:30  <drac_boy> not so much actually .. just disconnect the one steam line (piped from firebox) and remove it like a normal truck ... then there its pretty much rather too easy to work on from the top :)
02:29:41  <drac_boy> and flygon they were so much easier than trailing axle boosters which were hard to get to underneath the firebox .. and as for removing it? forget it unless you want to find big cranes :->
02:30:04  <drac_boy> still a bit curious as to why the big locomotives never had tender booster but only trailing axle ones ... meh
02:30:08  <Flygon> Oh, geeze
02:30:09  <Flygon> What fun
02:30:25  <Flygon> See, this is why Steam-Electric should have taken off
02:30:39  <Flygon> More powerful locomotives without the maintainence problems :p
02:30:47  <Flygon> Or... with less problems :p
02:30:55  <drac_boy> flygon btw a few roads had the weird misconcept that a booster was to be used all the times rather than to avoid stalling on grades .. aka they were out of service too often!
02:31:37  <drac_boy> to be honest.. a booster equipped 2-8-0 (like that one) could equal to a much bigger and likely much more costly locomotive in term of tractive
02:31:40  <Flygon> I don't think we ever really had boosters in Victoria
02:31:52  <Flygon> We just made more powerful locomotives, or double headed
02:32:01  <drac_boy> so thats why some railroads were contend with booster equipped tenders as a cost measure especially if it was only needed a few times
02:32:40  <Flygon> (probably driven by competition with New South Wales... in trying to make overall faster trains :p)
02:33:17  <Flygon> Hmm
02:33:20  <Flygon> Actually
02:33:29  <Flygon> I think New South Wales may have used boosters
02:33:35  <Flygon> But don't quote me on that
02:34:44  <drac_boy> heh flygon if you really wanted competition .. for some time there were PRR, B&O, and Milwaukee running between Chicago and Twin Cities ... got hot with fast locomotives then lightweight coaches then streamlined diesels ... but post-WWII this started to slowly fail ....
02:35:28  <drac_boy> more stops were added ... speed dropped ... one by one pulled out finally leaving only scattered nameless local trains till amtrak creation
02:35:56  <Flygon> Heh
02:36:05  <drac_boy> this was where B&O ran their Zephyr ... and Milwaukee had their Hudsons .. etc
02:36:29  <Flygon> Here, Victorian Railways just sort of kept expanding, covered, quite literally, 95% of the population with railways by 1935
02:36:36  <Flygon> And then slowly declined after WWII
02:36:55  <Flygon> Barely used unprofitable brachlines were ripped up for steel
02:37:06  <Flygon> And after WWII... some were just unprofitable :p
02:38:10  <Flygon> The only place the same shit didn't really happen (to such a severe extent), to my recollection, is Europe (and possibly Britian... except for that shedevil Thatcher)
02:49:03  <drac_boy> flygon the funny thing about either the Breech Axe closures or the recent (maybe not so recent anymore..I forgot how long its been now) SNCF move to shutter small trains is they both pretty much almost lost sight of another bigger issues...
02:49:30  <Flygon> It was in the 60s, for Britian
02:49:34  <drac_boy> 4 money-questionable shunting moves = 1 big train on mainline .... guess what happens when you axe some or most of the former? you get less of the latter!
02:50:10  <Flygon> So they ended up with one moderate sized train?
02:50:14  <drac_boy> at least in usa it usually turned over to shortline railroads to manage the 'few wagons' while the bigger railroads sticked to long hauls many of the times
02:50:24  <drac_boy> a better method than just shutting down lines
02:50:41  <Flygon> Mm
02:50:53  <Flygon> Here, lines weren't so much shut down, as shut off to passeger traffic
02:50:58  <Flygon> Then degraged slowly...
02:51:10  <Flygon> Not helped that they're a different gauge to the rest of Australia
02:51:42  <Flygon> Part of the calls to standardize the lines, is because doing so would result in SG Concrete sleepers... which would uplift 25-40km/h speed limits to 80km/h+
02:51:49  <Flygon> Even if the rails are 80+ years old @______@
02:52:17  <Flygon> But
02:52:17  <drac_boy> flygon when you think about it .. moving two boxcars 80km to a yard to be marshalled probably gained little profit and still costed labour+fuel .. but these same two boxcars leaving the yard in a 500km distanced train = several thousand dollars of cargo profit there
02:52:20  <Flygon> It's not likely to happen
02:52:32  <Flygon> Discussing rail in Australia (for closed lines) is almost like the uS
02:52:33  <drac_boy> so its wise to never kill the short hauls unless they really don't make cargo senses ;)
02:52:33  <Flygon> US*
02:52:42  <Flygon> Except that the public supports rail
02:52:49  <Flygon> The Govt is just too terrified :p
02:53:16  <Flygon> Mmm, indeed
02:54:50  <drac_boy> flygon mind you for the last 2+ years they have been starting to organize 'forwarding' (forgot if that was the actual word) yards especially between different railroads too in france, etc
02:55:12  <Flygon> Define forwarding?
02:56:51  <drac_boy> so what happens is eg a 5700 ton rated 4900 ton train comes into the yard ... drops off 400 ton of wagons heading in another direction and notes theres 700 ton that was on their route so after a quick check (especially that its <=5700 too) they marsh this onto their train then take off as soon as air test is done
02:57:18  <Flygon> Ah, interesting
02:57:20  <drac_boy> some of these yards have a shunter on standby, others rely on the road locomotive to do this job itself
02:57:50  <drac_boy> probably a sensible way to get high tonnage with routing flexibility altogether at same time
02:58:01  * Flygon nod
02:58:04  <Flygon> Sounds it
02:59:44  <drac_boy> flygon I guess another way to put it is .. you have a 'X' .. theres a yard right in middle ... A is northwest, B northeast, C southwest, D southeast ... a train leaves A and drops some wagons for B in yard then leaves to D ... train leaves C and notes the wagons in yard to take with it to B
02:59:54  <drac_boy> only two trains needed even although it seem to be more than two routes :)
03:00:05  <Flygon> Shame it's not possible in OpenTTD :P
03:00:12  <drac_boy> thats a dumbed down way to explain it I guess ^^
03:00:15  <drac_boy> flygon....ha
03:00:33  <drac_boy> flygon...technicially you can with that cargodist thing ... not sure if its "really" the same idea tho
03:00:43  <Flygon> Indeed
03:05:26  <drac_boy> flygon btw how compactible or incompactible are the various locomotives and emu/dmu in term of MU controls? :)
03:05:34  <Flygon> In Victoria?
03:05:36  <drac_boy> for australia that is
03:05:37  <drac_boy> mm
03:05:44  <Flygon> Not sure about Australia-wide
03:05:54  <drac_boy> well victoria works too :p
03:06:02  <Flygon> But Victorian Railways built loco (and by extension, V/Line) are all intercompatible
03:06:09  <drac_boy> nice
03:06:15  <Flygon> And other locos (inc steam) are retrofitted
03:06:27  <Flygon> But EMU and DMU is tricky
03:06:48  <Flygon> Generally, MU and loco lack full MU compatibilty (barring brakes, iirc)
03:07:12  <Flygon> And EMU and DMU lack much compatibility, barring coupling (they need multiple crew)
03:07:16  <drac_boy> europe has the problem (even then the Rail EU are slowly trying work on that) of local MU makers being incompactible with each others even sometimes between similar models from same company too
03:07:21  <Flygon> And between EMU's... it's a mass again
03:07:28  <drac_boy> funny thing is american-built units are all compactible .... doh!
03:07:36  <drac_boy> (that including the EMD 66 too yeah)
03:07:40  <Flygon> DMU's, Sprinters and VLocity, are designed to be 100% compatible
03:08:06  <Flygon> Despite one being a short trip lower speed tin can, and the other reaching theoretical early Shinkansen speeds :p
03:08:44  <drac_boy> tin can? heh
03:08:53  <Flygon> DRC's (Diesel Railcar) only were compatible with certain other DRC's
03:08:59  <Flygon> And PERM/DERM... not a clue
03:09:10  <Flygon> x Electric Rail Motor
03:14:48  <drac_boy> I'm going to bed, bye ok mr.fireman :P
03:14:59  <drac_boy> heh
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11:22:20  <Eddi|zuHause> who dares click on that link? :p
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11:31:39  <drac_boy> hi
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13:49:43  <drac_boy> btw does anyone even know how to use the UIC classification to label something like the Africa Garratt which obviously has not one but two bogies basically?
13:56:44  <Eddi|zuHause> you have a link?
13:57:03  <Eddi|zuHause> the UIC (german) scheme is really simple
13:57:27  <Eddi|zuHause> a single axle is 1, two axles is 2, a single driven axle is A, two driven axles is B
13:58:02  <Eddi|zuHause> ' means the bogie is movable towards the body, and () for more complex bogies
13:58:22  <drac_boy> hmm .. think the garratt falls under both of these at the same time? ^
13:58:35  <Eddi|zuHause> so (A1A)(A1A) is an engine with 3 axle bogeys, whereof 2 axles are driven
13:59:09  <Eddi|zuHause> () implies ', but sometimes it's written anyway
13:59:22  <Eddi|zuHause> so the above could also be written (A1A)'(A1A)'
13:59:33  <drac_boy> so I'm going on a wild guessing here but something like (1'D2)(2D'1) for a 2-8-4+4-8-2 garratt?
13:59:34  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: PLEASE GIVE A LINK
13:59:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know which engine you are talking about
14:00:11  <drac_boy> one sec
14:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess you meant (1'D2')(2'D1')
14:03:08  <drac_boy> ugh I almost could not find any 'clean' side photos but this is close tho  slight different axle arrangement but its still a garratt nevertheless
14:03:22  <drac_boy> too many frontal or dirty photos to sort through :|
14:03:45  <Eddi|zuHause> then you have it turned around
14:03:54  <Eddi|zuHause> that is (2'D1')(1'D2')
14:04:28  <drac_boy> sorry about being slow with the link...thanks a lot nevertheless
14:04:59  <peter1138> at the late-night
14:05:01  <peter1138> double-feature
14:05:05  <peter1138> picture show
14:05:24  <drac_boy> heh?
14:06:21  <peter1138> anyone got "trains vs zombies 2"?
14:06:58  <Eddi|zuHause> are you drunk? :)
14:07:24  <peter1138> no :(
14:08:15  <Eddi|zuHause> you should be! :p
14:09:17  <drac_boy> eddi ignore that the best photo I could find was not a real one but would garratt locomotive 2-6-0+0-6-2.jpg had been (1'C)(C'1) or (1'C')(C'1') ?  its a 2-6-0+0-6-2 yeah
14:09:44  <Eddi|zuHause> no, (1'C)(C1')
14:10:17  <Eddi|zuHause> as a rule of thumb, the driven axles are usually not movable :)
14:10:25  <drac_boy> ah I see my error
14:10:27  <drac_boy> :)
14:10:44  <drac_boy> think I'm starting to understand the entire UIC classification by now
14:12:03  <Eddi|zuHause> it gets non-trivial to distinguish (1'C)(C1') from 1'C+C1' though :)
14:12:33  <drac_boy> :)
14:13:01  <Eddi|zuHause> the first is one locomotive whereas the second could at least theoretically function as two individual units
14:14:28  <drac_boy> the mallets are kinda a bit interesting sometimes
14:14:59  <drac_boy> a 0-6-6-0 can be just C'C but when its 2-6-6-0 they put it as (1'C)C ... guess thats a good way to describe the nondriving axles on a bogie
14:15:30  <drac_boy> then of course like you mentioned... electric tractions have the same thing with A1As and whats not
14:16:43  * drac_boy goes back to working on the table now that I know how to classify the garratts anyway
14:20:40  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: well, it's logical, C'C is equivalent to (C)C, and then you add an axle, so you get (1'C)C
14:25:02  <Eddi|zuHause> but take for example this engine: it can be argued whether to call that B'B'B' or B+B+B
14:25:44  <Eddi|zuHause> (this page has the former, wikipedia the latter)
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14:31:29  <drac_boy> huh thats a very interesting locomotive I hadn't noticed before .. have been to a bit of that site before tho
14:31:45  <drac_boy> I would call it B'B'B' indeed since its three seperate fixed B sections
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14:32:05  * drac_boy must look up more about this locomotive later tho
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14:57:14  <drac_boy> does give me an idea for my list finally tho
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15:01:35  <drac_boy> does make me wonder if theres a name for that thing where the motor axle is inbetween the drive axles
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15:42:23  * drac_boy thinks about how much hp a small early 0-4-0T could make ... saturated water and nothing else
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15:43:26  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: take the heat output, multiply it by an efficiency
15:44:15  <drac_boy> yeah yeah I'm still thinking about that one :P
15:44:29  <drac_boy> the efficiency thing is stumbling me a little bit
15:44:39  <drac_boy> I do know it probably has to be low tho
15:45:44  <drac_boy> it also reminds me for some reason of the nickname in uk .. Pugs
15:56:11  <Eddi|zuHause> steam engines rarely exceeded 10% efficiency
15:58:09  <michi_cc> drac_boy:
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16:01:35  <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: do they have that same page in metric units? :)
16:07:16  <drac_boy> heh
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16:11:50  <michi_cc> Just put in base SI units and it just works™ :) Power in W if you ignore the final HP conversion.
16:13:26  <michi_cc> Actually, is probably the better reference in this case.
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16:34:07  <drac_boy> ok looks like steam and electric are almost done except for power specs
16:39:03  <drac_boy> oh yeah and Eddi|zuHause thankfully it didn't take me too long to figure that out although I admit I probably should had known earlier ... if the electric/diesel is B' then its siderod driven but Bo' is individual traction motors instead as far as I've assumed
16:39:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:39:28  <Eddi|zuHause> o means separately driven
16:39:41  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a german 1'Do1' steam engine :)
16:40:04  <drac_boy> four pistons?
16:40:18  <Eddi|zuHause> no, 8
16:40:26  <Eddi|zuHause> 2 per axle
16:40:32  <drac_boy> eight.....
16:40:47  <drac_boy> why does that sound like the streamlined V2 locomotive to me ...
16:40:53  <Eddi|zuHause>
16:40:54  <drac_boy> two pistons in V arrangement over each axle
16:41:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:41:11  <drac_boy> duh...yeah THAT
16:41:30  <drac_boy> I actually noticed it on that "strange and wild" locomotives site
16:43:32  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise, 1'Do1' was the typical wheel arrangement of high speed electric engines of that time
16:45:14  <Eddi|zuHause> basically these:
16:46:06  <Eddi|zuHause> there was also a smaller version of the E17 with 1'Co1' wheel arrangement:
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16:52:22  <drac_boy> took a while to figure out which category it was but here near bottom
16:52:43  <drac_boy> and apparently the french people thought about it too
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17:18:09  * drac_boy is thinking by 1920 everything is superheated except for the few small low-cost locomotives
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17:58:26  * drac_boy needs a break from this goddamn tracking table already!
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18:45:24  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24825 /trunk/src/lang (dutch.txt malay.txt) (2012-12-18 18:45:15 UTC)
18:45:25  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:26  <DorpsGek> dutch - 1 changes by habell
18:45:27  <DorpsGek> malay - 3 changes by richz
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20:01:09  <Terkhen> hello
20:02:52  <Supercheese> Buenos dias
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20:08:03  <__ln___> elvish only
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20:14:31  <Terkhen> buenas noches, Supercheese
20:15:45  <Supercheese> Well, OTTD time is always daytime, unless you use that old nighttime grf :P
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20:28:55  <Wolf01> hello :D
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20:32:11  <drac_boy> hi
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20:34:06  <Terkhen> it's night here :P
20:34:30  <frosch123> it always is
20:34:36  <frosch123> day = work, night = ottd :p
20:34:42  <V453000>
20:34:47  <frosch123> esp. in winter
20:34:50  <Supercheese> GMT -8, 12:37 PM
20:34:52  <Supercheese> :d
20:34:54  <Supercheese> :d*
20:35:00  <Supercheese> oh frigging capslock
20:35:04  <Supercheese> :D*
20:35:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it's night when i sleep, not when it's dark outside :)
20:35:25  <drac_boy> actually 'night' does refer to the time of the day :P
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20:35:40  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: good point; it's night in ottd when i sleep
20:36:11  <frosch123> all trains sleep at night when noone plays
20:37:12  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: looks like stop-motion :)
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20:38:56  <Terkhen> that subtle difference between evening and night does not exist in spanish :P
20:40:14  <Terkhen> it's night when it's night, it does not matter if you are sleeping or not
20:41:32  <drac_boy> agreed Terkhen
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21:31:17  <oskari89> Who nobody has done a patch for drag&drop land purchasing?
21:31:44  <frosch123> isn't there about a dozen of them?
21:31:50  <Terkhen> I remember at least three
21:32:20  <Terkhen> neither of them is adapted to the new limiting mechanic for terraform stuff
21:32:29  <frosch123> i wonder why noone has made a patch about removing buy-land though :p
21:32:54  <planetmaker> :-) I think I once did... via parameter to forbid it
21:32:56  <Belugas> they are waiting for the undo knob
21:33:03  <planetmaker> ^^
21:33:22  <frosch123> well, it has it's use cases for airport construction
21:33:28  <frosch123> but that is about the only one
21:34:08  <oskari89> Yes, and stations upgrading in cities...
21:34:21  <planetmaker> nah. There you don't need it
21:34:23  <frosch123> who needs purchase land for thaT?
21:34:36  <frosch123> just place rails
21:34:53  <planetmaker> ^
21:35:06  * drac_boy simply clears things then puts station right away .. not wait
21:35:33  <drac_boy> and which of I sometimes wish I could shoot whoever invented different meanings of 'tons' and 'tonnes' :|
21:35:48  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: that ignores the cases where you cannot remove enough buildings at once (town rating) or when the airport is not available yet
21:36:03  <planetmaker> you should shoot the person which keeps continuing to use non-metric units ;-)
21:36:34  <frosch123> or even worse, fahrenheit :p
21:36:52  <planetmaker> that's non-metric in my book :P
21:36:53  <Belugas> or mix both at the same time!
21:37:02  <frosch123> the only affine linear scale with a single fixpoint
21:37:03  <planetmaker> oh, beloved, yes ;-)
21:37:05  <Eddi|zuHause> we should all use Kelvin!!!
21:37:06  <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause mm I never build airports in middle of city anyway? :P
21:37:13  <Eddi|zuHause> and m/s!!
21:37:21  <Eddi|zuHause> SI base units only
21:37:31  <planetmaker> though odd units come in handy, if you depserately want to tune your result to read 42 - irrespective of how strange your units will turn out ;-)
21:37:34  <frosch123> planetmaker: most non-metric units have _some_ sense; but fahrenheit has none
21:37:48  <frosch123> well, or half of what any other non-metric unit has
21:38:11  <planetmaker> I've to agree somewhat, indeed :-)
21:38:21  <drac_boy> looks like I may have to figure out some weight conversions for the sake of the nfo fields
21:38:30  <Supercheese> The disadvantage of using rails to reserve land rather than buying land is rails incur maintenance costs if playing with those enabled
21:38:34  <drac_boy> at least kw<>hp is rather easy
21:39:24  <Rubidium> but furlong per fortnight is a much better way to define speed ;)
21:39:39  <Supercheese> Fathoms per watch
21:40:10  <Supercheese> Leagues per half-hour
21:40:26  <Rubidium> also, we should get rid of light years or astronimical units
21:40:39  <Eddi|zuHause> mornings per day! :p
21:40:42  <planetmaker> I once handed in an assignment where I then finally used like brithish thermal units per fathom and fortnight or so
21:40:50  <Rubidium> or parsecs ;)
21:40:50  <planetmaker> but the result was 42,... ;-)
21:40:53  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, that doesn't make sense
21:40:57  <Eddi|zuHause> morning is an area
21:41:47  <Supercheese> Cubits per second (not to be confused with q-bits per second)
21:42:09  <Eddi|zuHause> cubicles!
21:42:24  <planetmaker> I think we're back to undo knobs now ;-)
21:43:27  <Eddi|zuHause> one of those in-jokes that pile up over time :)
21:43:35  <planetmaker> :-)
21:43:46  <Belugas> hehe
21:44:13  <frosch123> yeah, those which make you worry if you understand them :p
21:44:14  <Belugas> feels like old fouls remembering THE DAYS by the fire...
21:50:19  <Belugas> 11 more minutes...
21:50:29  <Belugas> or 9, depending where i look...
21:53:47  <peter1138> hi
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21:57:31  <drac_boy> hmm interesting  thats apparently supposed to be 'one 2-unit locomotive but the thing is ... one body is purely overhead electric and other body is purely diesel-electric ... talk about an unusual electro-diesel setup
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22:12:20  <Kjetil> I guess it wouldn't be unusual in a railway system that isn't totally electrified
22:12:24  <Eddi|zuHause> so basically they built two engines but with only one cab each?
22:13:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd rather expect they have some power transmission so always all 4 bogeys are powered
22:13:35  <frosch123> diesel / electric is completely normal
22:13:51  <frosch123> you need the diesel to drive
22:14:00  <frosch123> and the electricity for the time travel
22:14:16  <Kjetil> but where would you fit the flux capactior ?
22:14:34  <frosch123> next to the bath room
22:14:37  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: ;)
22:15:41  <drac_boy> Kjetil well if I heard 'electro-diesel' I was expecting a single unit with part of its space for electric and other part for diesel with a limited fuel tank located below chassis?
22:16:01  <drac_boy> :)
22:16:44  <Eddi|zuHause> how does it matter where the tank is?
22:17:45  <frosch123> put the ventilation of the tank next to the pantograph
22:20:13  <drac_boy> no thanks frosch123 :p
22:20:37  <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause just saying...the body is full with the engine + transformer sections .. so may as well as put fuel down underneath where theres probably space anyway
22:20:48  <peter1138> bah, i'm missing a nice set of stations that work with railtypes :S
22:21:41  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: the engine is in the bogey...
22:22:27  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the biggest advantage of electric engines, they're rather small...
22:23:07  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: newstations 0.5
22:23:10  <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause a engine tiny enough to go inside the bogie would probably be only good for several hp .. not at least 600+hp? :)
22:23:17  <peter1138> and that's out?
22:23:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it actually is, as unbelievable as it sounds :)
22:23:34  <drac_boy> peter1138 MB's download page is up ... but the main page is still "not ready"
22:23:40  <drac_boy> so you can go see for yourself :p
22:23:42  <peter1138> holy shit
22:23:46  <peter1138> but of course, not on bananas
22:24:09  <frosch123> at least not only on simuscape :p
22:24:59  <frosch123> drac_boy: the interesting part on the download page is newships :)
22:27:08  <drac_boy> yeah I wonder whats been updated there
22:27:33  <Eddi|zuHause> the download page is somewhat "hidden"
22:28:14  <frosch123> drac_boy: cargo support; but i meant actually that it is also one of those sets with a release date in the past
22:28:20  <frosch123> but no actual release
22:29:30  <drac_boy> oh I see frosch123
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22:29:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure i have seen a downlaod for that somewhere
22:29:47  <frosch123> george leaked it
22:30:12  <frosch123> everyone though george made an ecs update to it
22:30:35  <drac_boy> someone remind me if Objects still can choose initial sprites depending on whats on the adjacent tiles?
22:30:36  <frosch123> but it was actually mb who did it, gave it to george for testing, and george put it on his webspace for convienence
22:30:41  <frosch123> and everyone else got it from there :p
22:30:57  <frosch123> drac_boy: yes they can
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22:31:10  <frosch123> just like houses and industries can as well
22:31:14  <drac_boy> thanks
22:31:35  <drac_boy> was wondering about a trackside-facing object ... with just one single entry in the construction menu
22:31:51  <frosch123> check the dutch road funiture set
22:31:54  <frosch123> it does such things
22:31:54  <drac_boy> of course it'll be four different sprites in term of directions ^_^
22:32:01  <Eddi|zuHause> also interesting that MB "backdated" his (delayed) newstations release to the date he actually intended
22:32:05  <planetmaker> drac_boy, you can check for road or track. But not how the road or track looks like
22:32:07  <drac_boy> mmm I still have to look up that set, one day I'll get to that I guess
22:32:25  <planetmaker> and... look at that set for details ;-)
22:32:27  <drac_boy> planetmaker thats ok...straight or diagonal tracks whatever .. as long as its still "trackside" technically
22:33:03  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: so what happens when it's inbetween tracks, or the tracks get removed/rebuilt?
22:33:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it's one of the most annoying thing about the UK houses
22:34:06  <Eddi|zuHause> they change appearance when building/removing road
22:37:31  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: That isn't that annoying :P
22:37:33  <drac_boy> hmm inbetween'll show two faces if it was meant to ... as for removed I'll have to think about that one
22:38:07  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: annoying enough that i immediately stopped using the set because of that
22:38:19  <FLHerne> It's more annoying IMO when they don't, because they then face in a silly direction :P
22:38:28  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Overreaction much?
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22:38:43  <Eddi|zuHause> not at all...
22:39:02  <planetmaker> FLHerne, I consider that highly annoying :-)
22:39:16  <FLHerne> Why?
22:39:24  <planetmaker> A house doesn't just change when you re-build roads or tracks
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22:39:38  <planetmaker> It's like a train changing colour while driving or so
22:39:44  <FLHerne> Just argue that the road moving required them to rebuild the house :P
22:40:04  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: the worst thing: a house suddenly faces a depot when it faced the street before
22:40:08  <planetmaker>  FLHerne it's more so annoying as there are means to make it work properly
22:40:33  <planetmaker> might be a bit of a hack, but ... works ;-)
22:41:05  <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause one reason I could see houses changing sprite would be to have the driveway (or whatever other terms its called as) disappear when its front is not facing a road anymore?
22:41:12  <drac_boy> otherwise yeah I can't think of any good uses
22:41:29  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: but these houses turn around 90°
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22:45:43  <drac_boy> only mobile trailer homes should be doing that? :)
22:45:47  <drac_boy> heh
22:56:14  <Terkhen> good night
22:56:15  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly...
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22:57:23  <drac_boy> I know its only a rough guessing but think that two first class seats could roughly translate into three or four second class seat?  (for the sake of deciding number of seats in a grf coach wagon)
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23:05:00  <FLHerne> I bumped several patches 500 revisions and then combined them, and my game hasn't crashed yet! :D
23:05:13  * FLHerne suspects it will shortly...
23:05:20  <drac_boy> heh
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23:07:53  <Wolf01> 'night all
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23:28:31  <FLHerne> Ah, now it crashed :-)
23:28:33  <FLHerne> 'night
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