Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:05:45 <Wolf01> 'night all 00:05:49 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:08:44 <frosch123> night 00:08:49 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5472.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:38 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-055-227.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:30:35 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:36:32 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67657.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:36:55 <drac_boy> hi eddi :) 00:42:16 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 00:42:16 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:02 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 00:50:02 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:25 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 01:02:25 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:31 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:05:31 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:09:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A5C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:53 * drac_boy straggles flygon's modem for no known reasons 01:10:54 <drac_boy> heh heh 01:12:01 <Flygon_> I suspect my ISP 01:12:06 <Flygon_> I want FIOS already 01:12:09 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 01:13:17 <Supercheese> Is the Fiber really all that jazz? 01:13:37 <Flygon> Supercheese: It lacks the sync issues ADSL has 01:13:55 <drac_boy> heh 01:13:55 <Flygon> As well as just being a hell of a lot more robust 01:13:58 <Supercheese> How about compared with Cable? Or is that not an option there? 01:13:59 <drac_boy> how're you otherwise? 01:14:20 <Flygon> Supercheese, we can get 100/2 cable here. But three issues. 01:14:30 <Flygon> 1. It's being replaced by FIOS in the future 01:14:38 <Flygon> 2. It's run by Telstra 01:14:55 <Flygon> 3. It's more expensive than hiring the Queen as a sex slave due to being run by Telstra 01:15:13 <Supercheese> Cost prohibitive, hmm 01:15:19 <Supercheese> It's pretty cheap here 01:15:34 <Flygon> Also, it has download limits 01:15:50 <Supercheese> Oh really? I hate ISPs that cap max downloaded in a month or whatnot 01:15:56 <Flygon> http://www.telstra.com.au/internet/home-broadband-bigpond-ultimate-plans/ 01:16:27 * Supercheese cannot even connect to that website 01:16:29 <Supercheese> :S 01:16:33 <Flygon> Really? 01:16:40 <Supercheese> there it goes finally 01:16:42 <Supercheese> long load 01:16:44 <Flygon> Wow 01:16:49 <Flygon> Bad routing? 01:16:54 <Flygon> It IS hosted in Aussieland... 01:17:08 <drac_boy> heh 01:17:09 <Supercheese> I dunno, going from US to Au... 01:17:24 <Supercheese> ugh, FIVE gigabyte limit?! 01:17:30 <Flygon> But yeah 01:17:41 <Flygon> 9 for an even remotely acceptable plan 01:17:44 <Supercheese> I can sneeze and download more than that 01:18:00 <Flygon> It's actually cheaper to get FIOS from other ISPs 01:18:06 <Flygon> Or get multiple ADSL plans 01:18:13 <Flygon> Presuming you have more than 1 phone line 01:18:15 <Supercheese> Oy vey, I see the problem 01:19:44 <Flygon> http://www.iinet.net.au/nbn/nbn-plan-residential.html for more download limit and 100/40 instead of 100/2 01:20:08 <Flygon> And it'll probably be upgradable to 1000/1000 in future @_@ 01:22:06 * drac_boy wonders if flygon is ranting too much to even do anything else now? :) 01:22:08 <drac_boy> heh eh 01:22:36 <Flygon> Whatchaya mean? 01:22:40 <Flygon> I mean, let's put it this way 01:22:52 <Supercheese> Jeez, do they all have download quotas/caps? 01:22:55 <Flygon> The rail industry has better internet infrastructure than much of Australia atm 01:23:02 <Flygon> Supercheese: Depends on the ISP 01:23:13 <Flygon> But it's expected caps will be a thing of the past in future 01:23:20 <Supercheese> I would sincerely hope so 01:23:26 <Flygon> Me too 01:23:33 <Flygon> Caps are, excuse my language, bullshit 01:23:38 <Supercheese> I frequently download television series that can run from 20-70 gigabytes 01:23:54 <Supercheese> I'm filling my 1.5 TB hard drive ~_~ 01:24:24 <Flygon> Ach 01:24:31 <Supercheese> I'd run into any of those download caps in a day, some days anyway 01:24:33 <Flygon> 50GB is my current limit @_@ 01:24:38 <Flygon> We do intend to change ISPs 01:24:53 <Flygon> If I got the income, I'd actually get Telstra cable for myself. @_@ 01:24:55 <Supercheese> well, maybe not 500 gigs in a day :P 01:25:07 <Flygon> Parents are a tad slow 01:25:19 <Flygon> 500GB a day is entirely possible on NBN :P 01:25:39 <Supercheese> I dunno what would be 500 gigs that I'd download all at once though 01:25:53 <Supercheese> The Complete Collection of Every Star Trek Ever, all in 1080p, perhaps 01:26:08 <Supercheese> if such a thing exists :P 01:26:20 <Flygon> Only ToS and parts of TNG have been remastered for 1080p 01:26:30 <Flygon> Not counting the movies here 01:26:36 <Supercheese> They're releasing some TNG remastered eps in theaters here, even 01:26:46 <Supercheese> promoting the blurays I suppose 01:26:49 <Flygon> In theatures? 01:26:52 <Supercheese> aye 01:26:54 <Flygon> Er, theaters? 01:27:05 <Flygon> Shit, man, I wish they did that here! 01:27:29 <Flygon> But all Aussie theatres air is just the latest movies 01:27:38 <Supercheese> http://www.fathomevents.com/#!star-trek-the-next-generation/more-info/details 01:27:44 <Flygon> We have an, unfortunately, different movie culture to the USA 01:27:49 <Supercheese> Oh, it already happened 01:27:51 <Supercheese> :S 01:28:35 <Flygon> Notice how comments on the page also complain about the Australia thing :p 01:29:08 <Flygon> It's actually surprising that they don't air Star Trek episodes in movies here... we're full of Trekkies, and other Sci-Fi fans 01:29:28 <Supercheese> Probably some silly legal reason somewhere 01:29:32 <Flygon> Probably one of the few countries where you'll find utterly devout fans of Star Trek that're devout to Doctor Who too :p 01:29:46 <Supercheese> When something cool is failing to happen, likely some legislation somewhere is to blame 01:29:53 <Flygon> Eh... 01:29:53 <Supercheese> rule of thumb 01:30:01 <Flygon> I'd have to look into it 01:30:23 <Flygon> But I think it's just that cinemas don't want to risk losing a profit on something that isn't getting nationwide advertising 01:30:28 <Supercheese> (alternatively, when bad things happen, also look for stupid laws) 01:31:23 <Flygon> We have a far higher minimum wage here... this's probably one of the few industries there it could possibly be a detriment (due to hiring a guy /hr to look over a movie reel for an hour with barely any patrons) 01:31:49 <Supercheese> Ouch, yeah 01:32:02 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:20 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:32:23 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 01:32:37 <Flygon> But, frankly 01:32:48 <Flygon> I'd rather our min wage over TNG in cinemas 01:32:59 <Flygon> I mean, who can even survive on /hr? 01:33:06 <Flygon> You may as well eat dirt for lunch 01:33:19 <drac_boy> actually not really 01:34:23 <Flygon> drac_boy: Things cost around 20-50% more in Australia 01:34:25 <drac_boy> /hr if for six hours a day .. could get you a rented cottage-like space (may be shared roof..maybe not) ... basic dsl ... and some nice healthy foods ... and a small saving addup 01:34:33 <Flygon> Partially because everything has 10% sales tax included 01:34:34 <Supercheese> /hr would be awesome, it all depends on the price for goods & services 01:34:47 <Supercheese> would be awesome earlier in time* 01:34:47 <drac_boy> and thats with a 13% hst on everything even newspapers (yes..don't ask me why!) 01:34:53 <Flygon> /hr in Australia would let you rent a cardboard box in Australia 01:35:11 <Flygon> Let's put it this way 01:35:14 <Supercheese> Yep, all depends on prices of stuff 01:35:19 <Flygon> Paying over 00/mo rent on minimum wage isn't unusual 01:35:27 <Flygon> And actually considered quite cheap 01:35:33 <Supercheese> A better figure would be the ratio of wages:living costs 01:35:41 <Supercheese> The higher the better :) 01:36:14 <Supercheese> Well, not higher as in legally enforced minimum higher 01:36:32 <drac_boy> reminds me of a silly 'murphy law offshot' list.... 01:36:39 <Supercheese> but anyway 01:36:55 * Supercheese must leave to order turkey for Christmas dinner 01:38:07 <Flygon> Supercheese: I'd say our ratio is better than America 01:38:35 <Flygon> I'd rather live in a high wage, high cost country (that generally infers a strong economy) 01:38:46 <Flygon> Than a low wage, low cost country (eg. USA) 01:38:49 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-111-70-16.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:40:38 <peter1138> this is not the most practical terminal... 01:41:02 <peter1138> /usr/lib/xscreensaver/apple2 -text -fast -program /bin/bash 01:41:11 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:41:16 <Flygon> peter1138: Try AVISynth 01:41:23 <Flygon> THEN you'll see impractical 01:41:36 <Flygon> Even worse: I actually tried programing in AviSynth 01:41:49 <Flygon> Which is difficult when you... it's complex 01:42:16 <glx> I did only basic stuff in avs 01:44:47 <Flygon> I should try to find some of my more complex scripts... but a friend prolly has it 01:45:04 <Flygon> I think we somehow ended up creating a semi-automated .bat-.avs hybrid solution 01:45:29 <glx> that's what I use :) 01:45:38 <Flygon> As in 01:45:48 <glx> .bat creating the .avs and passing it to x264 01:45:58 <Flygon> The .bat ended up being a program that... it's complex 01:46:09 <Flygon> My friend and I used to do shizz for TASVideos 01:46:50 <glx> usually my avs is just open a video and deinterlace it 01:47:05 <Flygon> Ahh 01:47:14 <Flygon> I never had to deal with deinterlacing, thankfully 02:02:05 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:07:22 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 02:22:34 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 03:07:18 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 03:55:16 <Supercheese> Hmm, seems I no longer have to include whitespace at the front of the vehicle name, OTTD is OK with oversized purchase sprites now :D 04:01:42 <Supercheese> Blarg, accidentally overwrote my language file :< 04:01:48 <Supercheese> have to redo all the strings 04:05:42 <Supercheese> ah well, only had 3 strings in that grf 04:27:31 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 04:27:32 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:48:37 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 04:48:37 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:59:56 <Flygon> Hmmm 05:00:03 <Flygon> Interesting feature for OpenTTD 05:00:19 <Flygon> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Hawkesbury_River_rail_bridge.jpg Unused bridge bases (or bridges removed, but bases kept) 05:07:55 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 05:30:18 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@5ad287fa.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 05:33:21 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 05:33:31 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@186.212.212.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:39:10 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 05:40:47 <peter1138> along with crazy-long power cables? 05:47:15 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:48:39 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67657.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4A0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:13:31 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:18:13 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:57:31 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@5ad287fa.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:57:51 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:27:17 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:33:20 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:48:07 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 07:49:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 07:50:15 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-36.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:02:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@31.105.86.148] has joined #openttd 08:07:14 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 08:07:14 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@31.105.86.148] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:09:47 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f52da.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 08:13:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:15:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@31.100.120.169] has joined #openttd 08:22:05 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest2484 08:22:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:22:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that can easily be done by objects 08:24:26 *** Guest2484 [~Andy@31.100.120.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:28:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:31:29 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-064-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:32:46 <Supercheese> Could even borrow the construction stage for Oil Rig, no extra sprites needed 08:40:03 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:40:06 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:43:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@31.124.37.73] has joined #openttd 08:46:45 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:57:17 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest2490 08:57:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:01:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:02:06 *** Guest2490 [~Andy@31.124.37.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:10:07 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:10:10 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 09:10:16 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:12:35 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:15:56 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-48-61.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:29:11 <andythenorth> bonjour 09:29:31 <Supercheese> howdy 09:36:22 <andythenorth> FISH 2 needs some kind of passenger comfort factor 09:36:30 <andythenorth> via cargo aging 09:37:08 <frosch123> passengers aging on board? 09:37:31 <frosch123> so, that's why people on cruise ships are always so old 09:38:20 <Pikka> does it though? 09:40:00 <andythenorth> Pikka: does it? 09:40:03 <andythenorth> I am not sure either 09:40:27 <andythenorth> in a game, do you ever notice amount paid for cargo? 09:41:01 <Pikka> as long as it's not so unbalanced that a vehicle makes extraordinary amounts of money, or doesn't make any money, no 09:41:37 <andythenorth> and if it's really unbalanced....? 09:41:55 <Pikka> well since you already have capacity, speed, running cost, purchase cost, etc to balance, why introduce another? 09:42:38 <Pikka> perhaps if you need it to keep things reasonable for small and slow vehicles 09:42:39 <andythenorth> standard 'this vehicle costs more but earns more per mile' tradeoff? 09:42:52 <andythenorth> hovercraft make people sick (for examples) 09:44:46 <Pikka> seems like unnecessary complexity that won't change the way people play the game at all 09:45:20 <Pikka> and I say that as a veteran creator of a lot of unnecessary complexity :) 09:46:55 <Pikka> I can see how very slow or very small ships might need a boost in profitability, but I'd make it a quiet internal balance thing rather than a "feature" 09:49:54 <Pikka> small planes and helicopters in av8 get a cargo aging bonus... 09:50:34 <andythenorth> I was hoping someone would talk me out of it ;) 09:50:48 <andythenorth> I'd have to provide buy menu info strings and all that crap 09:50:57 <Supercheese> Hidden feature sounds good 09:50:59 <andythenorth> Pikka: you played a FISH 2 game? 09:51:26 <Pikka> I don't think so, still using the bananas version 09:51:30 <Pikka> in my ancient test game :) 09:51:49 <andythenorth> there is a v2 test release on babaaaabanas 09:51:52 <Pikka> I'll update everything once I have some 19th c houses and industries to test 09:51:56 <Pikka> cool :) 09:51:57 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 09:53:28 <andythenorth> could use some feedback, I can't be bothered to play a game :P 09:53:32 <andythenorth> nor do I have time 09:53:43 <andythenorth> due to baby holding 09:54:14 <andythenorth> if there was a new TaI I might bother o_O 09:54:34 <Pikka> for a given value of "new" 09:54:39 <Pikka> we'll have to do it multiplayer :) 09:57:06 <V453000> I always super enjoy playing with new features I make :D Kind of a reward to me 09:58:01 * andythenorth needs a new CargoGoal script 09:58:49 <V453000> :D 10:00:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: combine it with destinations? ;) 10:01:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: or like "produce 5000 goods in 4 different factories" 10:02:18 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: or have successive goals "produce 1000 steel in the first 5 years, produce 3000 oil in the next 5 years, produce 10000 goods in the next 5 years" [potentially randomized after each 5 year period, so you need a generic enough network] 10:04:12 <V453000> build 1000 trains. goal :p 10:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: build no more than 80 trains of (average) 3 tile length :)# 10:05:07 <Eddi|zuHause> TTO limits forever!! 10:05:17 <V453000> lol 10:06:23 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19234.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:08:15 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host115-94-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:08:42 <Wolf01> hello :) 10:09:39 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: write a GS :) 10:09:52 <andythenorth> use the new story book API 10:12:00 <andythenorth> maybe I should try NG French trains 10:12:04 <andythenorth> for a game 10:14:49 <andythenorth> but which truck set? o_O 10:14:55 <Supercheese> BANDIT 10:15:05 <Supercheese> unless not those kind of trucks :P 10:15:14 <andythenorth> BANDIT isn't 10:15:34 <andythenorth> BANDIT is a non-thing 10:15:40 <Supercheese> :P 10:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause> GermanRV has three trucks now, but not sure how useful that is. haven't got around to testing it yet 10:18:44 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and still a 1920 startdate only :/ 10:20:04 <frosch123> you can start with nuts then :p 10:21:07 <frosch123> though i think i should my next game way later than usual, so i get some rainbow things 10:21:13 <frosch123> unicorns and such 10:21:44 <Supercheese> Nyan trains 10:21:48 <Supercheese> and Nyan planes 10:23:10 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB5A06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:23:19 <V453000> 2000+ is particularly fun, but 0.4.0 will introduce wtf from 1960s :) 10:25:06 <frosch123> i am still unsure whether unicorn trams should be available rather in 1200 or in 2200 10:26:26 <andythenorth> lolwut 10:26:45 <Supercheese> Make it a parameter 10:26:55 <planetmaker> moin :-) 10:26:59 <andythenorth> bonsoir planetmaker 10:27:06 <planetmaker> and... merry christmas to everyone still here :-) 10:27:09 <Supercheese> :D 10:27:20 <andythenorth> V453000: how about a nuts truck set? 10:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but trucks are boring because they are inefficient... 10:31:10 <Eddi|zuHause> [paraphrasing V453000] :p 10:31:17 <andythenorth> you have pre-empted my next question :P 10:31:22 <andythenorth> does a truck set need to be complete? 10:31:35 <andythenorth> or should I just work with the 'trains are best' assumptions of the game 10:31:43 <andythenorth> and only provide a limited range of trucks 10:32:09 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:33:57 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:09 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause> afair #openttdcoop did a truck-only game :) 10:35:39 <planetmaker> several, yes 10:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but you should define "completeness" first 10:36:22 <V453000> it isnr about inefficiency but abou triviality. trais have tons more possibillities what to do. also, egrvts works similarly to nuts already 10:36:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be small trucks and large trucks, and each of them should be refittable to every cargo 10:36:55 <Eddi|zuHause> if that is "complete", then yes 10:37:13 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:38:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: refittable to every cargo is proven not to work :( 10:38:16 <andythenorth> assuming that auto-refit is also wanted 10:38:22 <V453000> wut? 10:38:23 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: indeed, that's why i hate airports so much. there's nothing you can manage. 10:38:35 <V453000> exactly 10:38:47 <V453000> sae for ship 10:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and they are hopelessly inefficient if unmanaged... 10:39:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd have to timetable the planes, so they don't block each other so much 10:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and there are no means to manage timetables either 10:40:04 <V453000> hm we just dont use them mostly 10:40:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i want to use them sometimes, but then get to the same conclusion again 10:41:31 <andythenorth> planes are for firs supplies :P 10:41:33 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 10:41:45 <andythenorth> specifically using av8 10:41:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: helicopters :) 10:42:02 <andythenorth> need more small airports though :P 10:42:09 *** M1zera [~Miranda@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 10:42:45 <V453000> the helicopters with crates are awesome i will give you that :) but making supplying with various train system is more interesting :p 10:45:38 <andythenorth> I hate trucks 10:46:05 * andythenorth just concluded 10:47:05 <Supercheese> night all 10:47:30 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 10:51:30 *** XfrankX-BTPRO [~who@095-097-242-002.static.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:52:11 *** M1zera [~Miranda@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:53:59 *** XfrankX-BTPRO [~who@095-097-242-002.static.chello.nl] has quit [] 10:59:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but i meant that every cargo should be transportable with both a small and a large type of truck, not that every truck needs to be refittable to every cargo 10:59:31 <andythenorth> ok +1 to that 10:59:41 <andythenorth> so one small truck, no trailer 10:59:50 <andythenorth> one large articulated truck 11:00:00 <andythenorth> to cover each group of cargos 11:13:44 <V453000> frosch123: what was fixed about the regearing missing from -none- menu filter? 11:13:59 <V453000> just including regearing to none? 11:16:52 <frosch123> yes, "none" displayed stuff which was refittable to nothing; now it considers only real cargos 11:17:00 <frosch123> i.e. those without the SPECIAL cargo class 11:19:03 <V453000> :) nice 11:19:27 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so that 11:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause> 'll fail again when people use passengers as pseudo-cargo 11:19:54 <Eddi|zuHause> to avoid a "special" cargo slot 11:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. by returning a 0 capacity by callback 11:20:48 <V453000> passengers as special? :D sounds better than pay in cola trucks on mars 11:20:58 <frosch123> yup, that's why i consider the special cargo as not that bad :) 11:21:19 <frosch123> it's at least marked as special 11:21:27 <frosch123> while pax will screw over everything 11:21:29 <frosch123> including ais :p 11:21:37 <frosch123> where is krinn when one needs him? :p 11:21:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a nice idea in theory, but there are too many conflicts with industry sets 11:22:40 <Eddi|zuHause> like you can't just add NARS to the USA scenario (ECS version) 11:22:44 <frosch123> that's just because of weird cargo limitations 11:23:05 <frosch123> it just needs more slots :) 11:23:09 <frosch123> 32 for real cargos 11:23:14 <frosch123> 32 for fake cargos 11:23:18 <Zuu> As long as towns don't produce the special pax cargo, it should be handled by eg. SuperLib.Helper.GetPAXCargo() 11:23:21 <frosch123> 32 for pseudo town effects 11:23:38 <frosch123> (separating them ensures that noone used them all) 11:23:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: no "special pax cargo" 11:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: just passengers (with cargo subtypes) 11:23:55 <Zuu> It is even so that it use the PAX cargo with maximum town production as passengers. 11:24:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: the assumption was that every possible set out there contains this cargo 11:24:14 <frosch123> Zuu: the problem is that the ai will see vehicle as transporting passengers, while they in fact do not :p 11:24:25 <Zuu> oh 11:24:31 <Zuu> that's nasty 11:24:38 <frosch123> as in pax, but capacity 0 11:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: so you don't have to include cargo definitions in your vehicle set 11:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: imho the solution would be to allow "subtype" refitting with no cargo 11:25:23 <frosch123> Zuu: well, if the ai is lucky it will attach wagons to engines anyway 11:25:50 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: or just a separate thing to subtypes :p 11:25:55 <frosch123> where is andy when you need him? :p 11:26:09 <andythenorth> indeed 11:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: something like MB's "views" idea, but additionally with ability to change stats 11:27:27 <andythenorth> just give every vehicle 2 cargo slots 11:27:30 <andythenorth> that would be interesting 11:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: wouldn't solve the problem 11:28:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: although it would solve a different problem :) 11:28:51 <__ln__> ho-ho-ho 11:29:46 <andythenorth> it would make refitting more complicated :P 11:30:11 <andythenorth> but the second slot could also be used as storage :P 11:30:46 <V453000> how sdo you mean that? :D livestock/coal train andy? 11:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that excactly it should not :p 11:31:27 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: main difference would be that you can also change the "view" without changing the cargo, even if the vehicle carries a cargo 11:31:35 <frosch123> would remove those silly 256 refit options of heqs :p 11:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 11:32:29 <V453000> :D 11:32:37 *** M1zera [~Miranda@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 11:32:45 <andythenorth> is 'view' available as an action 2 var? 11:32:49 <andythenorth> it would kind of have to be :P 11:32:50 <V453000> subclassesssss 11:32:55 <andythenorth> which would lead to....abuses 11:34:04 <V453000> btw why cant extra power per wagon be defined by a switch? 11:34:04 <frosch123> andythenorth: the problem is usually not who can read the var, but who and when it can be assigned :p 11:34:11 <Eddi|zuHause> for any sane usage it shoulud 11:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> especially it needs to be available during purchase 11:34:52 <frosch123> V453000: because it is not in that list http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Change_vehicle_properties_.2836.29 11:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> so i can use it with the articulated callbaack 11:35:06 <frosch123> you can only dynamically decide whether a wagon is powered 11:35:08 <Eddi|zuHause> to modify number of wagons 11:35:21 <frosch123> so, you can give every wagon the same power, but only make every third wagon powered :p 11:35:46 <andythenorth> if there is any possibility of seriously implementing views...please let me know o_O before I rework BANDIT set design (again) 11:35:52 <V453000> interesting 11:36:12 <frosch123> andythenorth: remains the question whether views can be changed after purchase :) 11:36:18 <frosch123> or whether there should be two views 11:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: in my use case, you shouldn't be able to change the "view" after purchase 11:36:25 <frosch123> one fixed on purchase, the other mory dynamic 11:36:31 <andythenorth> view changes in depot only 11:36:39 <andythenorth> can be done after purchase 11:36:58 <frosch123> so you would have three things to mess up: purchase view, refit view, refit cargo subtype :p 11:37:09 <andythenorth> apart from being clunky, subtypes worked fine for most cases until auto-refit arrived 11:37:14 <V453000> like switch saying that based on position in consist? 11:37:34 <frosch123> yes-ish 11:39:44 <V453000> hm... currently i ended with static power bonus per wagon but I will see what I can do with this 11:40:16 <V453000> logic was I want trains which increase efficiency with length 11:40:18 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: or we "deprecate" cargo subtype, and make only "cargo" and {one of "cargo suptype", "dynamic view" or "static view"} available at the same time 11:40:33 <V453000> static bonus already does that sort of 11:41:10 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you can also simply count the length in the power callback for the engine 11:42:16 <V453000> I do that for single head trains, for dual head I need more than 32k power 11:42:32 <V453000> so wagons 11:42:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm ok 11:43:37 <V453000> static bonus is probably best solution in the end 11:44:06 <V453000> least confusing, valid in my logic, but not breaking short trains 11:44:15 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yes, allowing either dynamic or static view would simplify stuff :p 11:45:01 <andythenorth> newgrf sets a bit 11:45:31 <andythenorth> authors might want some views to be private 11:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it would also need no change to the vehicle struct, since the same 8 bit are used in either case 11:45:34 <andythenorth> others exposed to player 11:46:01 <andythenorth> cargo subtype should really go 11:46:22 <V453000> what are these views you talk about? 11:46:30 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that is no criterion 11:47:33 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=51763 11:47:37 <frosch123> V453000: something which allows regearing, different number of tram wagons, liveries and such; but without the term "cargo" 11:48:04 <V453000> hm :) 11:48:13 <V453000> probably nothing for me 11:48:34 <frosch123> V453000: it would allow to select the colour of the slime trace on purchase 11:49:02 <V453000> ! 11:49:21 <andythenorth> so for example, set a ship to be a ferry (cabins) or utility vessel (open decks) 11:49:28 <andythenorth> or set a truck to have 2 trailers or 3 11:49:36 <andythenorth> or set trailers to use skis or wheels 11:49:47 <V453000> need slime tracw first... though I guess itapplies to the local train recolouring 11:49:57 <andythenorth> V453000: you should make some trains based on Doom 11:50:47 <V453000> that isnt unlikely to happen in next version 11:51:40 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 11:52:31 <V453000> can you somehow refit between views by order like subclasses? 11:53:27 <frosch123> i guess they key issue with views would be to disallow them to depend on cargo or consist 11:53:28 <V453000> other than that looks awesome 11:53:44 <frosch123> i.e. a purchase-list only thing (even if changeable after purchase) 11:54:12 <frosch123> then you could allow autorefit to only refit certain views into specific other views 11:54:45 <frosch123> V453000: i think the main idea from a vehicle set point of view is to allow more vehicles but with a short purchase list 11:54:56 <frosch123> by making it a 2-step selection 11:55:27 <V453000> same vehicles with same stats? :d 11:57:42 <V453000> guess I best keep local subclass refit as is 11:57:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: for me specifically it solves 2 cases: one graphical, one gameplay 11:58:09 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:58:17 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: view decides which cargos are autorefit-able? 11:58:29 <andythenorth> I assume so yes 11:58:48 <andythenorth> hmm 11:58:57 <andythenorth> actually does it change the value of the 4 cargo props? 11:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause> it cannot change properties, only callbacks 11:59:52 <andythenorth> but cb36 changes props... 11:59:56 <andythenorth> which might read the view 12:00:11 <andythenorth> and extend cb36 to change props 28/29/2C/2D (trains) 12:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but as long as the view cannot be changed by cb36, that is fine 12:00:52 <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot return lists in a callback 12:01:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can have a callback that takes the cargo as parameter and returns yes/no/maybe 12:01:45 <andythenorth> set props 28 etc as lists of lists :P 12:02:01 <andythenorth> return the index that you want 12:02:10 <andythenorth> i.e. list of lists in the action 0 12:02:17 <andythenorth> cb returns an index to required lsit 12:02:28 <andythenorth> brb, presents to wrap 12:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> ... only 5 hours to unwrwap presents :p 12:03:06 <frosch123> hmm, maybe the dynamic view thingie could be allowed/disallowed via a cb 12:03:21 <frosch123> so, only certain views are refittable to other views 12:03:31 <frosch123> while not changing the name/meaning of a view 12:03:54 <drac_boy> hi 12:04:17 <drac_boy> eddi heh sounds like you can't wait to see what you got? 12:04:21 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so i can change from "4 wagons, liquid" to "4 wagons, bulk", but not to "8 wagons, liquid"? 12:04:38 <V453000> 4 for me Edd :PPP 12:04:52 <frosch123> yeah, or disallow any refitting after 20 years 12:04:57 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-36.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:05:11 <V453000> o god I hate typing on tablet 12:05:30 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: "S-Bahn livery is only available between 19xx and 19yy" 12:06:59 <frosch123> well, it will remain available to those which already have it 12:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 12:08:24 <Eddi|zuHause> unless the grf author overrides that by other means ;) 12:08:47 <V453000> liveries should always be available in full range tbh... visual variety is always nice.. the more the better 12:09:01 <planetmaker> ^^ +1 12:09:17 <planetmaker> for the realistic-minded people there could be a parameter to forbid it. Or vice versa 12:09:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, such a parameter was planned for CETS 12:11:40 <drac_boy> V453000 I have always thought a bit about that. offering different colours of tank wagons at random 12:11:55 <drac_boy> after all some could be yellow to represent Shell ... blue would had looked like Esso .. etc 12:12:14 <drac_boy> better than one long string of tank wagons that all look the same 12:12:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you can already do that 12:12:26 <planetmaker> no problem to do so. 12:12:38 <planetmaker> e.g. OpenGFX+Trains does so with the container wagons. Random colours for those 12:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the DBSet has a parameter to randomize individual wagons or the whole train as one 12:12:54 <planetmaker> could of course become user-selectable, but meh. Too much choice ;-) 12:13:20 <drac_boy> V453000 and if you want to go overboard, look at the upcoming French Narrow Gauge set .. he actually has each locomotives in several different railray liveries. some of the locos have 8+ different liveries to manually select from tho 0_o 12:13:36 <V453000> I think colour randomization is an amazing tool to make stuff look good, you just need some part of the vehicle which keeps it unified so it doesnt distort too much 12:14:16 <V453000> like random sprites for full goods etc 12:14:26 <planetmaker> ^^ 12:15:32 <drac_boy> planetmaker I think a compromise between manual and automatic liveries is probably the best choice 12:16:20 <planetmaker> yeah. And where to draw that line... that's a personal preference :-) 12:16:34 <drac_boy> for example in dbsetxl you can choose to have the rhinegold livery passenger trains (cream+red) but it randomize the domes/diner/etc on its own instead 12:16:35 <planetmaker> which could be set via NewGRF parameter, possibly 12:17:47 <drac_boy> planetmarker agreed 12:19:20 <V453000> I have randoms everywhere, strupes on wagond, slight differences in wagon colours, random cargoes like cows/pigs/sheep/pikn-elephants, or containers of x colours, crates barels, .. though for pax rrains where you want whole train to look the same a livery caro subclass refit is probably most suitable.. but hey you can add random to that too! 12:25:14 <frosch123> he, keep on entertaining me! 12:25:30 <frosch123> i have to run every 5 minutes to the oven, in between i have 2 minutes to read chat 12:26:23 <drac_boy> heh :) 12:27:11 <drac_boy> V453000 one of the thing that I had sometimes thought about (and haven't seen in any grfs yet but I haven't tried all of them tho) was to have liveries on passenger wagons made specific to different generations and the kind of locomotives 12:27:35 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:28:34 <drac_boy> like for example in north america an original heavyweight coach could only be taken by a steam locomotive or boiler heating fitted diesel locomotive while a modernized heavyweight or any lightweight coach would require a diesel locomotive with head end power (or the use of a electric genset wagon behind the locomotive) 12:28:55 <drac_boy> don't know if any players might want that kind of "stictness" in locomotive mating but mm 12:30:09 <V453000> just specific attach settings :) 12:31:03 <frosch123> i think there are some sets which do such things 12:31:13 <frosch123> like requiring break wagons and such 12:31:13 <V453000> for example my maglev trains are fasrtest but can only haul small wagons... balance :) 12:31:18 <frosch123> they are quite cumbersome to play 12:32:41 <drac_boy> frosch123 well a break wagon wouldn't had been needed if air brakes had been introduced earlier? :) 12:33:10 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:33:11 <drac_boy> in usa they were only required more or less for train safety reason .. but the train still could had came to a stop on its own without any caboose nevertheless 12:33:12 *** alan45 [~a199901@pool-108-27-192-194.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 12:33:19 <drac_boy> (compared to uk) 12:33:42 <drac_boy> I'm just generalized a bit too much tho maybe 12:33:51 <Eddi|zuHause> btw i have here a picture of a per-wagon randomized train, matching the date :) http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2024.%20Dez%201963.png 12:33:54 <V453000> brake wagons are just wtf to me :) 12:34:21 *** alan45 [~a199901@pool-108-27-192-194.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #openttd [] 12:34:28 *** alan45 [~a199901@pool-108-27-192-194.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 12:35:13 *** alan45 [~a199901@pool-108-27-192-194.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #openttd [] 12:35:53 <frosch123> drac_boy: if you want such "realism" features, you should provide them only as eyecandy 12:36:03 <frosch123> but not make it mandatory to know them to use the trains 12:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS won't include "GÌterzugbegleitwagen" in the core set 12:36:55 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: matching the date? it's not 1963 :p 12:36:56 <V453000> eexactly Eddi :) though how does db set randomize that? Idont think it is just random 12:37:25 <drac_boy> frosch123 well you should tell that to uk for having too many unbraked wagons? ;) 12:37:32 <frosch123> V453000: rerandomize trigger when wagon is empty 12:37:46 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that particular case was actually an openttd bug. when buying the train, the per-train-randomisation wasn't done correctly 12:37:53 <andythenorth> hmm 12:37:56 <frosch123> V453000: tankers can also use build date 12:38:04 <frosch123> so stuff bought at the same time has the same colour 12:38:23 <V453000> tghere is somethinhg more though 12:40:10 <V453000> when there is cargo waiting in the station, it is random within wagon, if station hasno csrgo/good service, then it is random but the same within a train 12:40:44 <drac_boy> I kinda want to ask this... 12:40:50 <andythenorth> present wrapping concluded 12:41:18 <drac_boy> is it only north america that had these centerbeam wagons? the one that look like flatcars except for walled ends .. and a large beam 'wall' running down the middle 12:41:20 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you set the triggers correctly? 12:41:39 <V453000> andythenorth: survived? :) 12:41:43 <andythenorth> sorted 12:41:49 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:42:02 <andythenorth> so....what if a 'view' was composed of an action 0 and action 3? 12:42:06 <andythenorth> nothing more 12:42:11 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: in db set, my triggers are just normal random 12:42:23 <andythenorth> i.e. each ID has n action 0s / 3s 12:43:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so then how would i do curve images? 12:44:34 <andythenorth> how are you planning to do them? 12:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i do them by reading curve info of previous/next vehicle 12:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause> so i need an action 2 12:45:53 <Eddi|zuHause> varaction2 12:46:45 <frosch123> andythenorth: don't make stuff more complicated than it needs to 12:47:45 <andythenorth> hmm 12:47:59 <andythenorth> switching action 0s seems quite conceptually simple as an interface for authors to me 12:48:17 <andythenorth> compared to endless switches / varact 2s checking view var each time :) 12:50:22 <V453000> endless switches ^^my pax wagon switch has 1300 lines 12:53:25 <planetmaker> :-) Sounds decent. But not enormous 12:53:44 <V453000> ^^ 12:55:03 <V453000> anyway,i will be going towards the christmas mayhem, have a nice time! 12:56:32 <andythenorth> I liked the idea that 'view' is like 'view' on a model in mvc 12:56:44 <drac_boy> anyone in here have any thought on some alternative term to 'boxcab' or thats pretty much the only one there is? I'm just trying to think of if theres another name that would be easier to recognize in other countries or not 12:56:53 <andythenorth> otherwise we might as well just call it 'arbitrary storage on newgrf vehicles' 13:01:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "arbitrary storage" would mean you can assign to it during callbacks and stuff 13:01:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a whole different type of insanity :p 13:10:18 <drac_boy> quick grf check - 'short tonnes' is used .. not 'long tonnes' right? 13:10:27 <drac_boy> or was it the other one 13:10:41 * drac_boy hates all these names-alike weights >_< 13:15:20 <frosch123> all tons in ottd are metric tons 13:15:28 <frosch123> independent of what the translator called them 13:15:41 <drac_boy> thanks, now I know which tons to convert to 13:15:51 <drac_boy> ton .. short ton .. long ton .. etc ... it can get a little confusing at first I guess 13:16:29 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so how do views help you do curves? 13:16:56 <drac_boy> at least tractive effort isn't too hard .. so far I know of tf (tons-metric force), kn (kilonewton), and lbf (pounds force) 13:27:40 <andythenorth> frosch123: how would a view be chosen? On purchase menu (as per MB mockup)? Or with a new menu after construction? 13:31:54 <frosch123> both 13:32:10 <frosch123> always in the purchase menu 13:32:19 <frosch123> if the grf allows also after purchase similiar to refit 13:32:25 <frosch123> likely not via order 13:32:36 <frosch123> but via autoreplace 13:33:57 <frosch123> i might try to write a spec when i am done with baking :) 13:34:01 <andythenorth> \o/ 13:34:19 <andythenorth> it seems (mostly) straightforward 13:34:30 <andythenorth> I forsee a future containing a lot of cb36 though :P 13:34:39 <andythenorth> although, for RVs that's nothing new :) 13:34:41 <frosch123> cookies are not like cake which you just shovel into the oven and then do something else :) 13:35:02 <andythenorth> cookies are what you shovel into toddlers 13:35:15 <frosch123> yup, but only after baking 13:35:40 <frosch123> not necesasarily directly after though 13:45:34 <drac_boy> heh heh 14:00:46 <Belugas> hello 14:01:30 <andythenorth> Belugas: :) 14:01:34 <andythenorth> still working? :P 14:02:19 <andythenorth> Pikka: is it tasteful to use UKRS 2 in arctic? 14:03:00 <frosch123> poor belugas, i with i could file him some of the fresh cookies 14:04:11 * andythenorth ponders a cargo goal game, single player 14:04:44 <andythenorth> what amount for goal though, assuming 1910-2010 play length? 14:05:18 <andythenorth> 100k? 14:05:22 <SpComb> 133.7k 14:05:34 <andythenorth> because...? 14:05:47 <SpComb> christmas is quite the season for playing openttd, I should have a game myself 14:06:44 <SpComb> vanilla without any GRFs :P 14:07:35 <drac_boy> heh :) 14:11:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: i played sv singleplayer, 30 years, 10 industries, 300 ton per industry and quarter, 10k per quarter total 14:11:39 <frosch123> 100k is way too few for 100 years nocargoal 14:11:54 <andythenorth> I'll play SV 14:12:10 <frosch123> ok, then you need a big map :p 14:12:14 <frosch123> else you will run out of space 14:12:16 <andythenorth> it's going to be insane :P 14:12:25 <andythenorth> 30 industries in one town 14:13:32 <andythenorth> 0 suitable towns found :P 14:14:01 <andythenorth> 30 is too many I guess 14:17:15 <andythenorth> works with 17 industries and low towns 14:18:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: use less towns 14:18:39 <andythenorth> hmm 14:18:48 <andythenorth> with FIRS basic economies SV not so good 14:18:50 <frosch123> it requires a certain area for the town per industry 14:19:04 <andythenorth> most cargos in Basic have only one source 14:19:11 <andythenorth> 17 paper mills is boring :P 14:20:54 <andythenorth> frosch123: does SV account for max possible production at a primary? 14:21:06 <andythenorth> not sure I can get 200t out of these farms ;) 14:21:38 <frosch123> funding primaries is part of the concept 14:22:11 <andythenorth> I mean the max possible per instance 14:22:23 <andythenorth> I guess it can't check that actually 14:22:28 <andythenorth> due to production cb 14:23:19 <frosch123> it is your job to produce enough stuff 14:23:41 <frosch123> or are you playing with primary industry as goal industry? 14:23:59 <frosch123> imo that does nor work properly and should be removed :) 14:24:13 <frosch123> though it might work with firs supplies :p 14:25:14 <andythenorth> primary as goal 14:25:16 <andythenorth> hmm 14:25:19 <andythenorth> HEQS is broken 14:25:23 <andythenorth> that's new :( 14:29:43 <drac_boy> why is HEQS broken? 14:30:35 *** Amis [~Amis@540286DF.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 14:35:46 <frosch123> the load was too heavy 14:37:22 <drac_boy> frosch123 how can that be? unless you telling me that FIRS has higher weight class than ECS or original 14:37:46 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has left #openttd [] 14:38:45 * drac_boy is just trying to understand since I thought 1 ton of goods in original was same as 1 ton of goods in custom industry etc 14:39:08 <andythenorth> some kind of multiplier is being applied to cargo refits 14:39:25 <andythenorth> so refit #3 for these HEQS trams results in 45t capacity not 75t 14:39:58 <drac_boy> oh thats making more sense now :/ 14:40:13 <andythenorth> it's a FIRS issue 14:40:15 <andythenorth> bah 14:40:40 <andythenorth> or at least the issue disappears if I remove FIRS 14:40:54 <frosch123> drac_boy: it's just wearing out; andy played more often with heqs than anyone else 14:41:38 <drac_boy> heh well I've used the HEQS trams a lot tho 14:41:56 <drac_boy> being able to have a "heavy" short distance freight route with no need for signals/etc kinda is rather nice 14:42:14 <drac_boy> never ever used the road vehicles so much tho (well..sometimes the logging trucks and other reasonable ones tho) 14:43:14 <drac_boy> I know theres nothing that can be done about it for the time being apparently but I just hate having to see the tram overhead wire all the times tho :| 14:43:21 <drac_boy> heh oh well 14:45:25 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:46:13 <andythenorth> drac_boy: transparent mode 14:46:56 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:47:11 <drac_boy> andythenorth maybe but then the wired trams would look silly with no wires 14:47:18 <drac_boy> so yeah thats why I don't know if I should complain or not :P 14:49:20 <andythenorth> so...what cargo action 0 prop causes the cargo amount to be multiplied by 0.6 in some newgrf vehicles (but not all) 14:49:24 <andythenorth> ?? 14:49:32 <drac_boy> andythenorth I forgot the url, remind me again if your tropical climate had copper ore just like the original one did? 14:49:40 <andythenorth> no 14:49:45 <drac_boy> np 14:50:01 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 14:50:42 <andythenorth> prop 1D? 14:50:44 <Eddi|zuHause> this looks very HEQS-ish :) http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8364/8303263462_40105ef522_o.jpg 14:51:22 <drac_boy> eddi CORRECT .. that kind of thing is why I wish there was two choices of tram tracks .. but thats too unlikely so I wouldn't press it ;) 14:51:30 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that is exactly HEQS-ish 14:51:31 <Terkhen> hello 14:51:43 <andythenorth> lo Terkhen 14:51:44 <drac_boy> hi terkhen 14:51:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so how do views help you do curves? <-- it doesn't. i do curves already, but i can't do several lengths (8, 10, 12 wagons...) at the same time 14:52:06 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:52:44 * andythenorth wonders wtf the capacity multiplier is defaulting to 0.6 :P 14:52:47 <Eddi|zuHause> the HEQS scheme of making wagons invisible collides with the curve-articulation 14:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause> as i can't make wagons 0 length 14:53:10 <andythenorth> that's the price of elegant hacks :) 14:53:14 <andythenorth> fragility :P 14:53:18 <Eddi|zuHause> each wagon can only be contracted to 3/8 14:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and then i get insane checks for which vehicle now has to be taken as the reference for the curvature 14:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause> if i had "purchase-time" views, i could just skip adding some wagons in the articulation callback and be done with it 14:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing complicated about it 14:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you just can't modify the number of wagons afterwards 14:55:16 * drac_boy still has to see about using invisible articulated wagon pixel to get one single wagon to actually carry two different cargos yet 14:55:30 <drac_boy> but thats for another time, still busy with locomotives alone yet 14:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: that's trivially easy 14:55:56 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: similarly, that would also be a perfectly acceptable way to set number of trailing vehicles for RVs 14:56:41 <andythenorth> so I have to set capacity_multiplier per cargo 14:56:42 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause mm only thing I'm wondering about tho is can you set everything to zero as in 0 ton, 0 runcost, etc for the invisible part? 14:57:16 <drac_boy> wish I had some idea but I don't think I'm any help with the multiplier thing sorry andythenorth :) 14:57:26 <Belugas> andythenorth: yes, but that's the last day before january, so it's fine by me 14:57:35 <andythenorth> thanks, that was a really useful highlight drac_boy 14:57:38 <Belugas> plus, i've got plenty or rum to keep up ;) 14:57:53 <drac_boy> belugas don't drink 20 rum bottles in one single sitting tho? :P 14:58:05 <andythenorth> FIRS 0.7.5 didn't appear to set capacity_multiplier prop 14:58:08 <andythenorth> (prop 1D) 14:58:14 <Belugas> naaaa... one per hour would be good enough 14:58:18 <andythenorth> nvm, I'll just set the fucker :( 14:58:35 <drac_boy> belugas ok thats fair 14:59:33 <Belugas> fair and safe ;) code wise... 14:59:37 <Eddi|zuHause> happy tree-decorating time anyway people... 14:59:47 <Belugas> although i don't expect to deliver top notch uality 14:59:59 <Belugas> you too, sir Eddi|zuHause 15:03:09 <andythenorth> hmm 15:03:21 <andythenorth> so which cargos don't have capacity_multiplier 1? 15:04:02 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CargoDefaultProps 15:04:22 <frosch123> pax, mail, goods, candy 15:04:22 <andythenorth> thanks :) 15:04:22 <drac_boy> how do any of you feel about certain locomotives that have a small freight compartment inside their body? (I'm talking about something like http://www.x-rail.ch/MOB/Lokomotiven/Elektr.Lok/Bilder/GDe-4-4-6004_G008.jpg with the side cargo doors) 15:05:08 <frosch123> drac_boy: can it also be used for beer? 15:05:40 <frosch123> or too dangerous? 15:06:19 <drac_boy> frosch123 if you mean beer as in bottles packed into a crate and labelled as FOOD .. I don't see why not? 15:06:49 <frosch123> true, one could lock the driver's cabin 15:07:29 <drac_boy> so cargo carrying locomotives or not so interested in them? :) 15:07:39 <andythenorth> apparently supplies are 1:1 15:08:09 <andythenorth> wonder why we didn't make them 2:1 like goods 15:09:03 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: HEQS needs some diesel trams like the one you posted 15:09:14 <andythenorth> 'needs' is too strong a word :P 15:14:28 <peter1138> oh fucking gnome 3 and your fucking shitty fucking wanky crap 15:14:46 <drac_boy> heh I think the whole gnome and unity things are really failing at it badly :/ 15:15:18 <planetmaker> what's the german translation of "ambient" for sound effects context? 15:15:49 <planetmaker> best I can up with is "Landschaft". But it's rather a subset of the actual meaning 15:16:31 <peter1138> gnome-shell crashes when i unmaximize openttd 15:16:53 <peter1138> switched to terminal and killed it 15:17:03 <frosch123> planetmaker: hintergrund oder umgebung 15:17:05 <peter1138> it comes back up thinking my dual monitors is one, so it's all stretched 15:17:13 <peter1138> so i kill it again, and it crashes and wipes out its config 15:17:17 <frosch123> planetmaker: UmgebungsgerÀusche likely 15:17:18 <peter1138> PROGRESS 15:17:55 <andythenorth> peter1138: would santa approve of that language? :) 15:18:18 <Pikka> goodnight all and merry christmas 15:18:19 <peter1138> as a 34 year old... 15:18:20 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-111-70-16.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:18:37 <andythenorth> peter1138: 1978? 15:18:40 <andythenorth> a fine year 15:18:42 <peter1138> well done 15:18:49 <andythenorth> easy for me :P 15:19:01 <andythenorth> frosch123 SV with multiple cargos? 15:19:13 <andythenorth> I know that's not the point...but :) 15:19:42 <andythenorth> give it mutliple challenge stages? Completing one unlocks the next? 15:25:51 <planetmaker> yeah, that's good, frosch123 :-) UmgebungsgerÀusche 15:26:55 <Amis> How can I check if BaNaNaS is online? 15:27:57 <andythenorth> ah 15:28:05 <andythenorth> I have a town called 'barningstone on sea' 15:28:09 <andythenorth> in the middle of a land mass :P 15:28:33 <frosch123> Amis: http://bananas.openttd.org 15:28:55 <frosch123> Amis: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/openttd.org 15:29:15 <drac_boy> andythenorth heh town name randomizers don't know "where" they are on the map apparently 15:29:40 <Amis> So it that site is offline but I still can't fetch content it means something is wrong at me I guess? Sometimes the list under any "Check online content" stays empty without any feedback on what's happening 15:29:54 <drac_boy> I've seem these moments where theres just a very tiny piece of island sticking in middle of ocean .. and yet the scenario editor builds a town right on it ... never can grow bigger than 2 road tiles and 3-5 houses forever anyway :) 15:29:59 <Amis> site is online* 15:30:41 <andythenorth> hmm 15:30:49 <andythenorth> pikka's finescale tracks is borked in the construction menu 15:31:16 <frosch123> Amis: firefall or proxy (if you have one) 15:32:30 <Amis> frosch123, I tested it with firewalls off but it DOES work sometimes. I just download about 100MB 15:32:35 <Amis> But now it's empty again 15:32:44 <Amis> Is there a limit of some kind? 15:33:20 <frosch123> not that i know 15:33:34 <andythenorth> hmm 15:33:40 <andythenorth> not borked if CHIPS isn't present 15:33:43 <andythenorth> CHIPS is *really* broken 15:33:52 <andythenorth> how do I pull a grf from bananas? 15:34:11 <Terkhen> read the TOS :P 15:39:39 <drac_boy> sorry about asking many things at times but I still have another short question... 15:39:51 <andythenorth> file a DMCA takedown notice with the mirror hosts? 15:40:11 <drac_boy> do you just call them 'brake platform' or what would you call these certain covered vans that have a door facing open (but still roofed at times) platform at one end .. containing the manual brake wheel? 15:40:21 <andythenorth> setting up a game is a lot of hassle. Not sure I can be bothered to do it again :P 15:40:23 <planetmaker> yes. But do so without asking for removal first, andythenorth 15:40:29 <drac_boy> swizterland had a lot of them for starters 15:40:30 <andythenorth> is there anything I can call like 'reset_grm' 15:40:54 <andythenorth> finding and configuring 10-15 grfs is way too much effort 15:41:02 <planetmaker> there's grf presets 15:41:16 <planetmaker> one of which is "none" 15:41:34 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB5A06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:41:53 <andythenorth> meh, I'm going to read a book instead :) 15:42:08 <andythenorth> stupid buggy grfs 15:42:26 <andythenorth> I could update the description on Bananas for CHIPS? "Don't use this grf" ?? 15:42:29 <planetmaker> defaults are borked? 15:42:40 <andythenorth> CHIPS breaks other grfs 15:42:46 <andythenorth> and removing CHIPS from my game doesn't fix that 15:42:53 <planetmaker> how so? 15:43:17 <planetmaker> and how do you know it's chips? 15:43:23 <andythenorth> causes Pikka's finescale tracks grf to use the wrong construction menu sprites 15:43:37 <andythenorth> I think it's CHIPS because the issue is reproducible with CHIPS present 15:43:39 <andythenorth> and not without 15:43:43 <planetmaker> that's not your problem. It's pikka's 15:43:44 <andythenorth> and CHIPS is already known-broken 15:44:04 <planetmaker> track newgrfs can provide their own sprites for the menu where no other grf can interfere really 15:44:11 <andythenorth> I reported a similar issue with CanSet and got a dressing down from OzTrans 15:44:21 <planetmaker> that's not surprising really 15:44:21 <peter1138> lol 15:45:04 <andythenorth> if I file a bug against Pikka, he's just going to be pissed off with me :P 15:45:26 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB4F53.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:47:19 <planetmaker> btw... how is pikka's finescale tracks broken with chips? Looks like it should for me 15:48:06 <andythenorth> 1 min 15:48:26 <peter1138> yeah no problem here either 15:48:57 <planetmaker> http://imagebin.org/240534 15:51:03 <planetmaker> gah. Who changed Landschaftsbau into LandschaftsverÀnderungen?! 15:53:04 <frosch123> planetmaker: "Erdarbeiten" :p 15:53:23 <planetmaker> well... that's less than "Landschaftsbau" 15:53:35 <planetmaker> as it includes planting trees 15:54:04 <andythenorth> hmm 15:54:08 <andythenorth> can't reproduce the issue now :( 15:54:21 <planetmaker> lol. Probably changed too many times the newgrf ;-) 15:54:36 <peter1138> andythenorth, do you mean the railway construction menu or the station construction menu? 15:54:43 <andythenorth> rail construction 15:54:48 <peter1138> k 15:54:52 <andythenorth> station construction is known broken for CHIPS 15:55:10 <peter1138> not since r24840 15:55:34 <peter1138> at least, railtype wise :p 15:55:38 <planetmaker> :-) 15:55:50 <andythenorth> oh :O 15:55:53 <andythenorth> the issue is AV8 15:55:59 <planetmaker> lol 15:56:05 <peter1138> av8 messes up finescale rails? 15:56:30 <peter1138> guess what 15:56:34 <peter1138> not here :p 15:57:08 <planetmaker> sounds highly improbable 15:57:17 <peter1138> indeed 15:57:49 <planetmaker> and yes. no issue with chips, finescale and av8 present 15:58:23 <planetmaker> andythenorth, and you always create a new map, right? 15:58:26 <planetmaker> for each test? 15:59:24 <andythenorth> I did when I thought the issue was chips 15:59:54 <andythenorth> let's try adding one grf at a time... 15:59:57 <planetmaker> you have other grfs? 16:00:07 <planetmaker> if so: which? 16:00:13 <planetmaker> can* is likely to interfere anywhere :D 16:02:19 <drac_boy> correct me if I'm wrong but weights can be displayed in decimal places but not cargos? (as in a wagon can be 7.5t but cargo only can be either 7t or 8t not 7.5t) 16:03:04 <frosch123> weight can be fractional, but pieces of cargo cannot 16:03:20 <planetmaker> capacity: 25.345 passengers 16:03:21 <frosch123> but that's a thing of the cargo, not of the vehicle 16:04:12 <drac_boy> thanks, just wanted to be sure 16:04:25 <drac_boy> guess I'll have to round the wagon cargo capacity down a little bit :-> 16:04:39 <drac_boy> (except if its .8 or .9 I'll round it up then) 16:07:33 <andythenorth> hmm 16:07:37 <andythenorth> can't reproduce this issue now 16:09:21 <andythenorth> hmm 16:09:25 <andythenorth> got it, on a fresh new game 16:10:19 <planetmaker> savegame? pic? 16:10:38 <__ln__> merry season! 16:10:50 <planetmaker> marry season? 16:11:02 <__ln__> nono 16:12:02 <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://imagebin.org/240536 16:12:21 <andythenorth> removing HEQS eliminates the issue 16:12:24 <andythenorth> I wonder if it's a sprite limit 16:12:38 <planetmaker> try w/o the bridge set 16:13:12 <andythenorth> no change 16:13:40 <planetmaker> but does av8 in both forms make sense (independent of anything else)? 16:14:06 <planetmaker> and... why do you use chips 1.0.0 and not 1.0.1? 16:14:18 <andythenorth> slightly reduced list http://imagebin.org/240537 16:14:37 <andythenorth> 1.0.0 is a mistake 16:15:42 <andythenorth> issue occurs with 1.0.1 16:15:42 <planetmaker> well... tbh, that selection of newgrfs works for me :O 16:15:53 <andythenorth> what ottd rev? 16:15:58 <planetmaker> head 16:16:06 <planetmaker> h6b1617b4 16:16:55 <planetmaker> is your firs different from 0.8.0? 16:17:06 <andythenorth> moderately, just a minor bug fix though 16:17:22 <andythenorth> I'm compiling current ottd head 16:17:24 <planetmaker> ah. Well. Order of grfs matters 16:17:31 <planetmaker> I now got weired stuff, too 16:17:38 <andythenorth> yes 16:17:39 <planetmaker> putting finescale tracks last got me there 16:17:45 <andythenorth> finescale tracks needs to be at end of list 16:17:48 <planetmaker> but seems not one of your faults 16:17:51 <planetmaker> why? 16:18:00 <planetmaker> for this bug. but generally? 16:18:03 <andythenorth> [needs to be at end to trigger issue] 16:18:05 <andythenorth> not generally 16:18:48 <planetmaker> might be FIRS 16:18:52 <planetmaker> or sprite limit 16:19:14 <frosch123> are you using action a sprites? 16:19:30 <frosch123> esp. the nfo authors fail to use grm for sprites 16:19:44 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@186.212.212.8] has joined #openttd 16:20:26 <frosch123> so the nfo grfs might mess up stuff for the rest if they are at the end 16:20:30 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 16:20:39 <andythenorth> I'll change order a bit 16:20:46 <andythenorth> meanwhile FIRS 0.8.1 can be released :P 16:21:42 <andythenorth> planetmaker: btw yesterday Bananas wouldn't accept FIRS upload from my local compile or bananas 16:21:48 <andythenorth> I was using make bundle_zip 16:21:59 <andythenorth> ^^ /s bananas / bundles 16:22:11 <planetmaker> hm... 16:22:18 <andythenorth> claimed empty pack, or duplicate grfs 16:22:33 <andythenorth> I solved it by using make bundle, then manually tarring myself 16:22:33 <planetmaker> UKRS provides something wrongly... dbg: [sprite] Tried to load recolour sprite #2735 as a normal sprite. Probable cause: NewGRF interference 16:23:14 <planetmaker> strange. firs? 16:23:39 <planetmaker> so, for one thing, UKRS itself does something wrong. FIRS does something wrong in a similar manner with recolouring 16:24:27 <planetmaker> we should tell pikka to fix that ;-) 16:26:35 <andythenorth> what is make bundle_zip for? 16:26:44 <andythenorth> I always use it, but without knowing why 16:26:52 <andythenorth> I wrote down the instructions a few years ago 16:26:54 <planetmaker> it creates a zip file 16:27:04 <planetmaker> with everything needed for distribution. or should do so 16:27:17 <andythenorth> bananas doesn't like that zip :P 16:27:22 <andythenorth> it's happy with the tar :) 16:27:32 <planetmaker> I might have changed that it contains the tar with everything inside. So if bundle_tar works. Just fine 16:27:52 <planetmaker> might be that bananas doesn't like like mygrf.tar.zip 16:28:08 <andythenorth> seems not :) 16:30:12 <planetmaker> use bundle_tar instead then 16:30:17 <planetmaker> will give you the tar 16:30:18 <andythenorth> works for me 16:31:04 <planetmaker> I got the feeling that it might be the sprite limit, andythenorth. Or some grf(s) not using proper grm 16:31:15 <andythenorth> +1 16:31:17 <frosch123> what "sprite limit"? 16:32:27 <planetmaker> hm... not sure :D 16:33:20 <planetmaker> http://imagebin.org/240538 works for me... and should be the same. just different order 16:33:38 <andythenorth> I'm going to try that 16:33:52 <andythenorth> although currently failing to get 0.8.1 from bananaasasas 16:33:56 <planetmaker> sorry for the tooltip in the screenshot :-) 16:34:06 <andythenorth> ottd downloaded 116B then decided it was done :) 16:34:06 <planetmaker> I didn't get that. though I updated all newgrfs 16:34:11 <planetmaker> eh? 16:35:43 <planetmaker> tralllala... naming of the grf failed ;-) 16:35:52 <planetmaker> r3295M 16:36:50 <frosch123> yeah, something about bananas is broken 16:36:52 <planetmaker> which is why I usually upload the zip from the devzone 16:36:58 <planetmaker> download worked for me well 16:37:18 <frosch123> i am at 100% 15/15 but the progress window does not close .) 16:37:26 <planetmaker> oh 16:39:53 <frosch123> why is firs lowercase now? 16:40:05 <frosch123> it used to be all uppercase 16:40:42 <andythenorth> probly a mistake 16:40:48 <andythenorth> release early, release often, right? :P 16:43:33 <andythenorth> something is screwy 16:50:39 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB4F53.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:52:29 <planetmaker> let's try to screw bananas... new opengfx 16:53:17 <planetmaker> there we go 16:55:39 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:57:56 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:00:41 <drac_boy> hi Bad_Brett 17:06:26 <andythenorth> I have 2.4MB of FIRS 0.8.1 in content_download/newgrfs 17:06:30 <andythenorth> but ottd won't see it 17:07:00 <planetmaker> rescan newgrfs? 17:08:04 <planetmaker> and mind, andythenorth, it's called "FIRS industry replacement set r3295M" in the list 17:17:20 <planetmaker> wooo.... r1k for OpenGFX. Update of changelog :D 17:18:26 <peter1138> yeah, sprite limit is, er, 2^24 17:18:37 <planetmaker> :-) 17:18:38 <peter1138> you're not gonna hit that without other problems 17:19:24 <andythenorth> Rubidium: any way to switch the file for a specific grf version on bananas? 17:19:56 <planetmaker> you mean replace? No(t) really 17:20:07 <planetmaker> Just call it 0.8.2 17:21:15 <planetmaker> andythenorth, what you can do, though: the displayed version name, that's just fancy stuff and a text string 17:21:43 <planetmaker> as long as the newgrf internal version is different or the md5sum not the same, an update should work 17:21:57 <planetmaker> thus you can simply update there from 0.8.1 to 0.8.1 when md5sum changes 17:22:05 <planetmaker> which it will be with a re-build with different strings 17:22:13 <planetmaker> but I'd not advise that :-) 17:22:22 <planetmaker> same version, different md5sum... is bad 17:22:48 <andythenorth> I'll do 0.8.2 17:22:55 <andythenorth> so usually I do make clean before making bundle 17:23:17 <andythenorth> this time I didn't 17:23:23 <planetmaker> I know... it's a bug in my build system. It bugs me... but... without forcing always a complete re-build I failed to eliminate it 17:23:28 <andythenorth> nvm 17:23:52 <andythenorth> normally I have more than one bug fix in the release, so I usually do a full build and test of the tag 17:25:00 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 17:30:51 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:30:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:43:27 <peter1138> hmm, my grfcodec doesn't work on trg1r... 17:46:06 <peter1138> ... 17:46:45 <peter1138> infact it only works on trgtr 17:47:20 <peter1138> oops, i mean trgir 17:48:16 <planetmaker> peter1138, r951? 17:48:25 <peter1138> 924 17:48:29 <peter1138> v 6.0.0 17:48:34 <peter1138> the one in debian 17:48:43 <planetmaker> old :-) 17:48:48 <peter1138> so? 17:49:02 <peter1138> grfcodec could always decode the base grfs 17:49:12 <planetmaker> bugs with container formats 17:49:28 <planetmaker> several fixes since 17:50:01 <peter1138> glad the authors tested it 17:50:16 <peter1138> is there unit testing now? 17:50:48 <planetmaker> did someone write them? 17:50:58 <peter1138> i have no idea 17:51:10 <peter1138> it was a yes/no question surely 17:51:17 <planetmaker> well. the answer is 'no' 17:51:26 <peter1138> r951... 17:51:31 <peter1138> but the repo appears to be hg 17:51:45 <planetmaker> yes, it is 17:52:35 <SpComb> no FIRS and Alpine :( 17:52:54 <frosch123> no alpine with anything 17:53:00 <SpComb> DBSetXL! 17:53:13 <SpComb> but it was broken on something there as well, food was broken or something 17:53:14 <planetmaker> public [951:0588d2cd10d0 default] 2012-12-08 16:20 +0100 17:53:51 <peter1138> GRFCodec trunk r950 - Copyright (C) 2000-2005 by Josef Drexler 17:53:58 <peter1138> o_O 17:54:15 <SpComb> the real question is what GRFs Raichase plays with 17:54:21 <SpComb> I noticed that he had alpine 17:55:41 <SpComb> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=166565 17:56:29 <peter1138> so yeah, why does ukrs2 replace wagon sprites with remaps? 17:56:45 <frosch123> SpComb: if you want the landscape, better use ogfx+landscape 17:57:50 <SpComb> yet http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=164482 17:58:32 <peter1138> it doesn't even use GRM for that 17:58:33 <peter1138> o_O 17:58:46 <frosch123> told you :) 17:58:50 <planetmaker> paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1993/ @ SpComb 17:58:52 <frosch123> even newstations 0.5.1 does not use grm 17:58:53 <SpComb> that's a different game, though 17:59:18 <peter1138> newstations shouldn't need to 17:59:20 <frosch123> grm is apparently too complicated for nfo 17:59:27 <planetmaker> lol, really, frosch123 ?! I'm surprised now. Impressed actually. But... not positively really 17:59:33 <frosch123> peter1138: the recolour sprites for the glass 17:59:49 <SpComb> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=166208 <-- default industries 17:59:50 <frosch123> planetmaker: it's compatible with 0.4 for a reason 18:00:03 <frosch123> it's mostly the same 18:00:40 <peter1138> it's got custom foundations, that's about it isn't it? :p 18:01:02 <peter1138> replacing wagon sprites is odd though 18:01:03 <frosch123> well, the code is mostly the same 18:01:07 <frosch123> no idea about the graphics 18:01:34 <peter1138> anyway 18:01:51 <planetmaker> causes dbg messages here always 18:02:08 <peter1138> no finescale sprites are overwritten 18:02:14 <peter1138> so i dunno why its sprites are messed up 18:02:26 <peter1138> hm, unless... 18:02:45 <planetmaker> finescale needs to be after all that. But alone it doesn't quite suffice, iirc 18:03:12 <peter1138> ? 18:03:35 <planetmaker> the list andy posted: if you mix the grfs differently, the bug might not be there 18:03:46 <peter1138> yes 18:03:57 <peter1138> i can see it, just trying to work out why 18:04:01 <planetmaker> thus, it's not there, if the 1st grf is the finescale one 18:05:37 <Bad_Brett> merry christmas everyone 18:06:16 <planetmaker> same to you :-) 18:09:22 <peter1138> i guess something is 16bit that should be 32bit 18:09:25 <peter1138> dbg: [grf] [uk_railway_set_tracks-2.0/pb_trax.grf:11] New sprite set at 67689 of type 16, consisting of 2 sets with 16 views each (total 32) 18:09:28 <peter1138> etc etc 18:10:58 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest2516 18:10:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:11:12 *** Guest2516 [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:33 <SpComb> 'cept DBsetXL doesn't understand OGFX+ Alpine :( 18:12:21 <peter1138> yeah 18:12:57 <SpComb> always so difficult 18:14:05 <peter1138> widget_data is 16 bit 18:14:33 <peter1138> andythenorth, there you go, it's an openttd bug all along 18:16:38 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: that's why i use a hacked alpine that doesn't interfere with industry sets 18:17:36 <andythenorth> la la la 18:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause> specifically i skipped all the industry code, and i added food acceptance to houses 18:18:25 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/widgetdata.diff 18:18:38 <peter1138> fixes the issue but i don't know if it causes any other issues 18:18:44 <planetmaker> nice find :-) And now fix it before... the world ends :D 18:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: in 2038? :) 18:19:01 <frosch123> what window is affected? 18:19:22 <peter1138> railway construction toolbar when railtype sprites are loaded > 65535 18:19:28 <Eddi|zuHause> or what's the next world-ends-day? 18:19:57 <planetmaker> I don't see how that should fire back, peter1138 18:20:03 <peter1138> yeah but widget_data is only 16 bit for a reason 18:20:10 <peter1138> maybe just historical 18:20:36 <frosch123> do the matrices still work? 18:20:54 <frosch123> iirc they use widget_data to store number of rows and columns in a bitfield-fashion 18:21:39 <peter1138> yeah, they seems ok 18:23:04 <peter1138> also possible i missed out some uint16->32 changes but it seems ok 18:23:12 <peter1138> i guess that's one benefit of classes 18:24:40 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: I have an alpinew-noindust.grf here as well 18:24:59 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: it's a one-line change really :) 18:25:26 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a jump at the beginning of the industry code, just change that to an unconditional jump 18:25:27 <planetmaker> Is StringID also 32bit? 18:25:37 <peter1138> don't think so 18:26:09 <planetmaker> as widget_data is sometimes converted to StringID. We might then introduce a similar oddity there, should we ever have too many strings 18:26:27 <planetmaker> DrawLabel and friends 18:28:21 <planetmaker> maybe an assert like (widget_data & 0xFFFF0000) == 0x00000000 could help there 18:28:59 <planetmaker> but where's "there" :D 18:31:17 <andythenorth> frosch123: so...views? o_O 18:42:45 <peter1138> planetmaker, i think we'd end up adding masses of asserts if we did that everytime we truncate a type 18:46:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24849 /trunk/src/lang (10 files) (2012-12-24 18:45:59 UTC) 18:46:13 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:46:14 <DorpsGek> catalan - 1 changes by Bassals 18:46:15 <DorpsGek> croatian - 33 changes by VoyagerOne 18:46:16 <DorpsGek> english_US - 33 changes by Rubidium 18:46:17 <DorpsGek> finnish - 33 changes by jpx_ 18:46:18 <DorpsGek> french - 33 changes by glx 18:46:19 <DorpsGek> german - 51 changes by planetmaker 18:46:20 <DorpsGek> italian - 33 changes by Snail_ 18:46:21 <DorpsGek> russian - 33 changes by Lone_Wolf 18:46:22 <DorpsGek> spanish - 33 changes by Terkhen 18:46:23 <DorpsGek> vietnamese - 34 changes by myquartz 18:52:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:54:21 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:04:59 <andythenorth> I wish double-clicking a newgrf opened parameter window, not removed it from list :P 19:08:44 <andythenorth> hmm 19:08:48 <andythenorth> SV with Alcohol? 19:08:50 <andythenorth> 17 breweries? 19:08:56 <planetmaker> :D 19:09:02 <planetmaker> totally realistic 19:10:16 * andythenorth plays it 19:14:46 <Sacro> limitation disturbs me very sprites 19:19:17 <peter1138> Sacro disturbs me 19:20:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24850 /trunk (6 files in 5 dirs) (2012-12-24 19:20:20 UTC) 19:20:24 <DorpsGek> -Update: Status report to santa. 19:22:54 * andythenorth plays the actual game 19:22:55 <andythenorth> openttd 19:22:57 <andythenorth> not the other games 19:23:06 <andythenorth> not even in multiplayer 19:25:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24851 tags/1.3.0-beta1/ (2012-12-24 19:25:24 UTC) 19:25:28 <DorpsGek> -Release: 1.3.0-beta1 19:29:10 <andythenorth> wooh 19:29:14 <andythenorth> xmas :P 19:29:50 <andythenorth> oops 19:29:58 <andythenorth> if playing SV, make industries cheap to fund :P 19:43:19 <Eddi|zuHause> "-Update: Status report to santa." is that code for "readme and changelog"? 19:43:54 <frosch123> plus an attachment called "wishlist" 20:01:54 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:02:07 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 20:06:27 <andythenorth> be useful if the train window showed train length 20:06:33 <andythenorth> (train list) 20:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> just send it to a depot :) 20:14:24 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@75.114.201.249] has joined #openttd 20:25:25 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:31:41 <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.2.3 1.3.0-beta1 20:31:41 *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.2.3 1.3.0-beta1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices 20:31:45 <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.2.3, 1.3.0-beta1 20:31:46 *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.2.3, 1.3.0-beta1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices 20:43:07 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:49:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so i most recently got the latest version... :p 20:50:40 <frosch123> ottd is dieing, three of the "latest" versions only differ in documentation 20:53:17 <planetmaker> three? 20:53:29 <frosch123> nightly, head, testing 20:53:33 <frosch123> more? 20:53:40 <planetmaker> :-) Ok 20:54:12 <planetmaker> counting to 3 is difficult 20:55:51 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@186.212.212.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:08:22 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@75.114.201.249] has quit [Quit: -] 21:10:38 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@75.114.201.249] has joined #openttd 21:14:13 <andythenorth> hmm 21:14:23 <andythenorth> FIRS production boost is a bit viscious 21:14:27 <andythenorth> double, then quadruple 21:14:40 <andythenorth> which means suddenly having to buy a lot more vehicles and infrastructure 21:14:49 <andythenorth> and if supply delivery is interrupted....massive jam 21:16:28 <planetmaker> build overflow depots ;-) 21:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that is also what's wrong with ECS 21:21:32 <Belugas> happy holidays all, /me is going home 21:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause> if you miss one delivery, your entire network breaks down 21:21:39 <Belugas> or will try to go ho,e... 21:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: we had 20.7°C here :) 21:22:12 <Bad_Brett> it's a nightmare to code a production algorithm that works properly 21:22:42 <Eddi|zuHause> (which is the warmest christmas eve since the beginning of weather mesurement, or so) 21:22:44 <Belugas> haa.. shut up 21:22:46 <Bad_Brett> at least that's my opinion :) 21:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: we had snow just 3 days ago... 21:23:20 <Belugas> haaaaa SHUT UP!!!!!! 21:23:34 <Belugas> and i hug you a lot, Eddi|zuHause 21:23:36 <Belugas> :) 21:23:48 <Belugas> and i'm drunk and i go back home 21:24:01 <Eddi|zuHause> bye 21:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and happy gift-receiving :) 21:27:51 <Bad_Brett> Christmas update for those who are interested: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=44188&p=1058371#p1058371 21:28:37 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 21:31:45 <SpComb> wow, FIRS certainly makes you use transfers a lot more 21:32:15 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 21:32:22 <drac_boy> hi 21:33:16 <Bad_Brett> heloo drac_boy!!! 21:33:27 <SpComb> smithy -> farm/engineering supplies truck -> farm/engineering supplies train -> farm supplies train -> farm (sugar|livestock)/supplies train -> (farm <-> sugar-refinery/stockyard) 21:33:43 <SpComb> madness 21:33:58 <drac_boy> how're you Bad_Brett? 21:34:08 <drac_boy> SpComb that sounds a bit too "thick" to me :-s 21:34:18 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@75.114.201.249] has quit [Quit: -] 21:34:20 <Bad_Brett> i'm super, thank's for asking! 21:34:23 <Bad_Brett> how are you? 21:34:39 <drac_boy> beside lack of info online sometimes I'm ok thanks 21:35:48 <Bad_Brett> merry christmas! :D 21:36:47 <drac_boy> heh thanks 21:37:29 <drac_boy> short question again - would there had probably been a speed limit on long chassis 2-axle wagons especially when curvations aren't exactly broad? 21:37:56 <drac_boy> I imagine the flange always scrapes a bit on the outside rails to varying degrees with these kind of wagons but hmm 21:39:44 <Bad_Brett> what wagons are you thinking about? 21:40:23 <Bad_Brett> with faster locomotives it doesn't sound like a good idea to pull them at max speed 21:41:03 <peter1138> hmm, some of chips' tiles flicker in the ui :S 21:41:15 <Supercheese> Yeah, known issue 21:41:33 <peter1138> ottd or chips? 21:41:35 <drac_boy> Bad_Brett I think I can find an example, give me a moment :) 21:41:38 <Supercheese> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4616 21:42:04 <Eddi|zuHause> <SpComb> wow, FIRS certainly makes you use transfers a lot more <-- just use cargodist :) 21:42:22 <peter1138> cargodest! 21:42:37 <Eddi|zuHause> or YACD :p 21:42:48 <drac_boy> heh actually Bad_Brett it was a bit too easy, I tried 'speedlink van' first (as I suspected uk must had these) and heres the first one even if its a model photo http://www.modellers-mecca.co.uk/5441-5382-thickbox/373-601b-46t-vga-sliding-wall-van-railfreight-speedlink-weathe.jpg 21:42:51 <peter1138> that's what i said 21:42:53 <Supercheese> Is the 21:43:02 <Supercheese> derp, stupid apostrophe key 21:43:20 <drac_boy> (and btw I can tell thats N scale .. the Arnold-invented couplers are obvious) 21:43:29 <peter1138> hmm, it's okay by itself 21:43:33 <Supercheese> Is the 'most recent' YACD based on a recent revision, or hopelessly old 21:43:56 <planetmaker> old 21:44:03 <Supercheese> Alas, I expected as much... 21:44:05 <Bad_Brett> I think I'd set a speed limit on those... but i guess the gameplay is most important 21:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> ohoo... "TIP" 21:44:24 <Supercheese> All these fancy new commits are delicious, though :< 21:44:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i need to try that sometime 21:44:59 <drac_boy> Bad_Brett well the thing is theres also bogie version (just slight different capacity) at same introduction time. so thats why I was wondering if the real thing had speed restrictions which I could probably use to differ them 21:45:09 <drac_boy> but if not I'll just drop one or the other to save an id 21:45:46 <Bad_Brett> perhaps you could add the speed restriction to that one and make it cheaper? 21:46:23 <drac_boy> mm actually yeah it was a little bit less because its only two rigid axles to assemble rather than the bogie trucks together with flexibile brake pipings etc 21:46:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: allegedly there's no big effort in updating YACD, just the author thinks it's pointles if you don'T solve the issues at the same time 21:46:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "issues" being performance mostly 21:47:53 <Bad_Brett> yep 21:47:54 <drac_boy> guess thats settled then 21:48:08 <drac_boy> thanks 21:48:10 <peter1138> firs & chips causes it 21:48:10 <Bad_Brett> splendid 21:48:12 <peter1138> hmm 21:48:46 <drac_boy> Bad_Brett how much do you know about varying rail wagons? :-> 21:48:51 <Supercheese> Well, it's extremely likely that whenever CHIPS is used FIRS will be used as well... 21:49:02 <planetmaker> peter1138, FIRS has the flickering issue due to bad temp variable usage with displaying sprites conditionally 21:49:49 <planetmaker> which then leads to sometimes uninitialized sprite numbers being used, iirc 21:50:09 <peter1138> i see it in CHIPS 21:50:32 <peter1138> but what temp variables are available? 21:50:36 <Bad_Brett> drac_boy: not much at all... i'm an engineer though 21:50:44 <drac_boy> mm 21:50:57 <drac_boy> Bad_Brett is that "measure things twice then get it cut?" ;) 21:51:02 <drac_boy> heh 21:52:39 <Bad_Brett> yeah 21:52:40 <Bad_Brett> hehe 21:53:29 <peter1138> measure once cut twice 21:54:32 <planetmaker> peter1138, newgrf variables. Which the grf sets values to itself. Based on whatever decision process. Temp registers 21:54:48 <drac_boy> thats a good way to mess up something peter1138 21:54:57 <andythenorth> CHIPS is a bit fucked 21:55:08 <andythenorth> I've been waiting for yexo to be free of real life 21:55:17 <andythenorth> as I don't understand the grm stuff at all 21:55:27 <Supercheese> Sounds like a nasty disease, that "real life" ;) 21:55:40 <andythenorth> you evolve coping mechanisms by my age 21:55:56 <andythenorth> FIRS maybe should boost production 50% and 100% not 200% and 400$ 21:56:23 <andythenorth> I want to have the option to use the ottd-controlled production change as well, but I can't be bothered to work out the code yet 21:56:24 <Supercheese> Make a parameter 21:56:33 <andythenorth> parameters suck 21:56:39 <andythenorth> just design better :P 21:56:47 <Supercheese> Parameters = more user control 21:57:02 <Supercheese> Which may or may not be a good thing, depending 21:57:50 <Supercheese> For production boost values, I would support a parameter. Without knowing the code, I'd presume something like ascending in mutliples of 2 starting from 50%/100% increases 21:58:07 <Supercheese> Then 100/200, 200/400, or so 21:58:17 <Supercheese> Although TBH there's only a few 'sane' values there 21:59:59 <andythenorth> you enumerated them all ;) 22:00:10 <Supercheese> Aye :P 22:14:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:22:15 <peter1138> hmm, wonder if i really need to keep old opengfxs 22:22:43 <planetmaker> not really. Also 0.4.6 is compatible with OpenTTD 0.7.0 22:23:01 <peter1138> and who uses that? 22:23:16 <planetmaker> yetis or so 22:23:17 <peter1138> heh, 5 versions of av8 22:37:07 <peter1138> every single time i unmaximize openttd gnome-shell crashes... wtf? 22:37:17 <peter1138> or rather, hangs 22:38:29 <peter1138> hm, it's okay without maximus extension 22:39:29 <peter1138> and they're written in... javascript :S 22:48:39 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@186.212.209.217] has joined #openttd 23:05:52 <Sacro> @seen Bjarni 23:05:53 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 11 weeks, 2 days, 22 hours, 46 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh 23:09:41 <peter1138> @seen darkvater 23:09:41 <DorpsGek> peter1138: darkvater was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 36 weeks, 2 days, 11 hours, 31 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <Darkvater> good ol' days :) 23:09:48 <peter1138> @seen tron 23:09:48 <DorpsGek> peter1138: I have not seen tron. 23:10:01 <peter1138> @seen hackykid 23:10:01 <DorpsGek> peter1138: hackykid was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 42 weeks, 3 days, 13 hours, 49 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <Hackykid> hi peter1138 23:16:45 *** Amis [~Amis@540286DF.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:39 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:25:17 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 23:31:36 <frosch123> night 23:31:39 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f52da.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]