Log for #openttd on 25th December 2012:
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00:30:51  <Wolf01> 'nighty xmas
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00:34:48  <drac_boy> had to ask but did they ever carry liquid-filled barrels on flatcars or that generally was only for either low-side open wagons or tank cars alone?
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06:53:02  <Terkhen> good morning
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07:02:57  <George> Hello
07:03:14  <George> Is there anybody here who could help me with NML
07:03:32  <George> I've tried to change akasoft's code
07:03:47  <Supercheese> code of what?
07:04:16  <George> by adding new default livery which is a randof of other
07:04:23  <George> code of a wagon
07:04:26  <George>
07:04:53  <George> but my change causes OTTD r24837 to crash
07:05:10  <Supercheese> Holy preprocessor directives, Batman
07:05:13  <George> when I open a new vehicle window
07:06:10  <George> I can't understand, what could be wrong
07:06:27  <George> I've only added a new random for CB 2D
07:07:31  <George> my changes are - adding strings 84-95 and string 101
07:09:15  <Supercheese> I dunno sorry
07:10:49  <Supercheese> I don't use the colour_mapping callback myself
07:15:27  <Supercheese> It should be "color_mapping", but apparently the devs prefer British English :P
07:19:09  <Terkhen> George: I don't know how to modify liveries with nml, but a NewGRF should not be making OpenTTD crash... could you please open an OpenTTD bug report with the nml code attached to it so we can check that crash?
07:20:00  <Terkhen> with my somewhat limited nml knowledge the code does not look wrong
07:20:12  <George> where should I post the crash files?
07:20:33  <George> Here
07:20:35  <George> &
07:20:51  <Terkhen> George: yes, thanks :)
07:20:51  <George> I mean ?
07:21:05  <George> creating the report
07:22:44  <Terkhen> with regard to the code, I barely remember how random switches are supposed to work... but calling a random switch from a switch seems wrong to me
07:23:04  <Terkhen> but I'm not sure :P
07:23:17  <Terkhen> you may have to wait a bit until someone more knowledgeable wakes up :)
07:27:27  <V453000> hohoho, is the large sprite support in 1.3?
07:27:58  <Supercheese> I didn't check
07:28:14  <Supercheese> I agree the oversized purchase sprites support in trunk is nice
07:29:54  <V453000> point is I update newgrf when stable has it, so asking :)
07:32:03  <Terkhen> V453000: <-- it is in the 1.3.0-beta1 testing release, but not in stable :P
07:32:10  <Terkhen> (second item)
07:34:11  <V453000> testing release is stable for me
07:34:18  <V453000> :)
07:35:17  <V453000> and changing nuts so it follows the big purchase menu sprites will at least make more people consider testing
07:36:08  <Terkhen> great :)
07:38:34  <George> FS#5404
07:41:07  <George> do I need to add any additional information?
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07:51:42  <Terkhen> George: that's all it should need, thank you :)
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08:55:59  <kamnet> Anybody awake who would like to help me w/ TortiseSVN and patching ?
08:57:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it
08:57:57  <Eddi|zuHause> 's really simple
08:58:08  <Eddi|zuHause> just right-click and say "apply patch"
08:58:18  <Eddi|zuHause> but you can't use hg patches
08:58:36  <planetmaker> nor git
08:58:47  <Eddi|zuHause> tortoise doesn't understand all patch formats
08:58:57  <Eddi|zuHause> use command-line patch in that case
08:59:12  <dihedral> hello
08:59:22  <kamnet> I tried doing that and I'm getting an error, "k:\games\OpenTTD\nightly\r24837 is not a working copy"
08:59:36  <planetmaker> good morning also everyone. And merry christmas :-)
08:59:47  <dihedral> yes, merry x-mas ;-)
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09:00:04  <Eddi|zuHause> kamnet: what's the first three lines of the patch?
09:00:10  <Supercheese> Felix die Christi natalis (hope I'm getting that right)
09:00:16  <kamnet> Index: projects/openttd_vs80.vcproj =================================================================== --- projects/openttd_vs80.vcproj	(revision 24837) +++ projects/openttd_vs80.vcproj	(working copy)
09:00:24  <Supercheese> perhaps add a "vobis" to that
09:00:42  <planetmaker> :-)
09:00:58  <kamnet> Good morning and merry Christmas to all.
09:01:04  <planetmaker> Supercheese, christus is u-declination
09:01:06  <Eddi|zuHause> kamnet: that looks right. how did you get your working copy?
09:01:08  <planetmaker> I *think*
09:01:13  <Supercheese> Pretty sure Christus is irregular
09:01:21  <planetmaker> hm... no. Jesus is. christus not. whatever
09:01:34  <Supercheese> Dictionary says Christi is genitive
09:01:38  <kamnet> clicked on the link on the wiki to get to the repository, entered the revision I needed, copied it over.
09:01:43  <planetmaker> then it's regular o-declination
09:02:06  <Supercheese> I think it has some other strange cases
09:02:09  <Supercheese> hence the irregularity
09:02:10  <Eddi|zuHause> kamnet: which link?
09:02:25  <kamnet> svn://
09:02:40  <planetmaker> jesus, jesus, jesui, jesum, jesu or so ;-)
09:02:59  <Supercheese> or was that the strange one yeah :P
09:03:06  <Supercheese> it's 1 AM here, getting sleepy
09:03:16  <Eddi|zuHause> kamnet: then i don't know...
09:03:59  <Eddi|zuHause> kamnet: you did "something" wrong during that, but i don't have the time to get deeper into this
09:04:43  <peter1138> grrr pulseaudio fucking up :S
09:05:20  <kamnet> So goes my first foray into applying patches. :-/
09:05:39  <planetmaker> did building that version of openttd, unpatched work for you?
09:05:56  <kamnet> No I've not tried that yet.
09:05:57  <peter1138> 07:15 < Supercheese> It should be "color_mapping", but apparently the devs prefer British English :P
09:06:06  <peter1138> no, we just prefer English
09:06:10  <Supercheese> hah
09:06:17  <planetmaker> "not a working copy" implies that you try to apply the patch outside the dir which you checked out
09:06:40  <peter1138> not our fault you fuck it up
09:06:44  <Rubidium> Supercheese: which developer is American (or even born in North America)?
09:06:45  <planetmaker> and always build w/o patch to be sure that you can build it at all
09:06:54  <kamnet> The diff file should be in the dir, yes?
09:06:55  <Supercheese> I never said anything about that...?
09:07:26  <planetmaker> I don't know where tortoise expects any file to be; I don't use it.
09:07:31  <Rubidium> so, why should we use a language that no developer is native in
09:08:10  <Rubidium> and in Europe I reckon most are taught (British) English instead of American; at least I was
09:08:34  <planetmaker> so was I. And then it was spoilt by reality :D
09:08:46  <George> I see devs... Merry Christmas and FS#5404
09:08:47  <kamnet> I right-click on the .diff file, select TortiseSVN->Apply Patch, then select the directory where I downloaded the nightly.
09:09:01  <George> any ideas?
09:09:03  <kamnet> It SEEMS like it is straight forward
09:09:05  <planetmaker> merry christmas also to you, George ! :-)
09:09:11  <Rubidium> George: looks like you're overwriting the map generation sprites
09:09:16  <George> What am I doung wrong?
09:09:17  <planetmaker> (but I guess you'll have that later?)
09:09:22  * Supercheese was just trying to be funny...
09:09:56  <George> Rubidium: How can I fix that?
09:10:17  <Rubidium> George: or "using" the map generation sprite somewhere
09:10:20  <peter1138> kamnet, you downloaded the nightly, or checked it out with =svn?
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09:10:45  <George> It just my first experience in NML
09:10:45  <Rubidium> George: no idea, I just looked at the crash log
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09:11:28  <kamnet> peter1138: opened svn://, TortiseSVN fires up, I enter the revision number I wanted, drag/dropped the files to new directory. '
09:11:57  <George> I just want to add a new default livery that is a random of the other liveres the wagon have
09:12:13  <planetmaker> kamnet, drag+drop... you mean manually move on your machine? Then you didn't move everything
09:12:27  <Rubidium> George: liveries are well outside of my area of knowledge
09:12:34  <planetmaker> especially not the svn meta information
09:12:54  <George> And who can help me with them?
09:12:56  <planetmaker> don't drag+drop a checkout, but checkout into the correct dir straight ahead
09:13:01  <kamnet> I selected every file in the window.
09:13:08  <peter1138> i've used tortoisesvn a long time ago, but i don't remember its ui being like that
09:13:10  <Rubidium> kamnet: also the hidden file?
09:13:12  <planetmaker> kamnet, except the hidden ones
09:13:57  <kamnet> Kinda hard to select hidden files if I can't see them, isn't it?  ;-)
09:13:59  <peter1138> oh i see, wouldn't you just rename the directory and move that?
09:14:08  <planetmaker> George, is the full source code available so that I could build the grf?
09:14:14  <peter1138> or just check it out to the right place to start with?
09:14:32  <kamnet> Where's the right place?
09:14:41  <planetmaker> where you want it to be, kamnet
09:14:42  <peter1138> whereever you wanted it
09:15:32  <kamnet> OH! Hey, I just noticed that apparently there is a directory tree on this window, except that it's completely minimized.
09:15:35  <planetmaker> kamnet, however: first compile. then patch. then compile again
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09:17:49  <kamnet> And now if I right-click on the "trunk" folder, I get an option to export
09:20:38  <planetmaker> mind: tortoise cannot compile the game for you. It's just means to get the source code
09:21:02  <planetmaker> so, it's like, you now got the book. Now you gotta read and understand it. If you allow the analogy
09:22:35  <kamnet> Hm, thought I already had mingw, apparently I do not. So off to grab that now
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09:36:15  <Supercheese> Ugh, I hate the Windows UI for GIMP
09:36:31  <Supercheese> Nothing I can do about it though
09:41:06  <kamnet> *sighs* So, I grab latest version of MinGW, install, start to compile, get complaint that zlib isn't found. Find link for zlib in mingw, follow link, takes me right back to the link to download the latest version of mingw
09:44:24  <planetmaker> you can suddenly start to like it, Supercheese ;-)
09:44:55  <Supercheese> Theoretically
09:45:22  <kamnet> What's different about it from other OS?
09:46:00  <Supercheese> No idea, but it's not Windows native, so I'm presuming that's the cause of some of the issues
09:46:22  <Supercheese> It does not behave like most Windows programs
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09:49:07  <kamnet> I'll agree, not like a native windows application, but it didn't take me long to figure it out
09:49:18  <Supercheese> Oh I've used it for years
09:49:25  <Supercheese> it's just so quirky
09:49:43  <kamnet> Would anybody know what I need to do to get MinGW and zlib going? :-(
09:53:12  <Terkhen> kamnet: there is a MinGW tutorial in the wiki
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10:01:58  <kamnet> Thank you Terkhen!
10:02:22  <Terkhen> yw :)
10:03:18  <kamnet> nd thank you also to Planetmaker and peter1138 and Eddi|zuHause
10:04:49  <kamnet> And thank you, also, to the Baby Jesus born 2013 years ago.
10:07:17  <Supercheese> Give or take :)
10:07:35  <Supercheese> Yeah, the wiki tutorials on compiling are great
10:08:40  <Terkhen> :)
10:09:00  * Terkhen hopes that other people take upon the task of updating the MinGW tutorial
10:09:08  <Terkhen> it seems that I have switched to linux for good this time
10:12:06  <kamnet> I may task myself to that if I end up actually using it on a regular basis
10:16:50  <kamnet> Hm, to install or not install libicu
10:22:16  <Terkhen> that thing is a PITA, luckily all of the work of forcing it to compile in MinGW is done :P
10:22:33  <Terkhen> if you follow the steps in the wiki, the only thing that it will take is a lot of time
10:23:04  <Terkhen> if you do not require the extra characters the only thing that you will be mising is natural sorting, though
10:24:30  <kamnet> I guess I can go back and add it later if I need it.  Helping another user who is building a patch pack with a windows build
10:25:42  <Terkhen> yes, you only need to follow the steps in the wiki and run configure again in OpenTTD to let it detect libicu
10:26:23  <kamnet> I'm about done installing mingw then. whee
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10:40:16  <kamnet> WOOT! Compile went good. Now to patch!
10:40:42  <Terkhen> :)
10:43:38  <kamnet> And FAIL! :_(
10:44:00  <kamnet> [SRC] Compiling ai/ai_config.cpp In file included from k:/games/openttd/nightly/24837/src/ai/ai_config.cpp:13:0: k:/games/openttd/nightly/24837/src/ai/../settings_type.h:21:38: fatal error: lin kgraph/linkgraph_type.h: No such file or directory compilation terminated. make[1]: *** [ai/ai_config.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/k/games/openttd/nightly/2
10:46:01  <SpComb> aptitude install timidity \o/
10:46:24  <SpComb> kamnet: failed to add new files?
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10:47:51  <kamnet> Not aware of any new files I needed to add. I'm trying to install a patch and build a windows binary for a user to test. All I was sent was the .diff file. running under mingw
10:48:08  <kamnet> But this is my first go-around at patching and compiling openttd
10:52:12  <Terkhen> kamnet: it looks as if you applied an incomplete cargodist patch which misses the extra files
10:52:48  <kamnet> Ahh. I'll report this back then. Thank you once again!
10:53:29  <Terkhen> I'm not sure if that has been caused by an incomplete patch or by an incomplete patching by tortoisesvn
10:53:35  <Terkhen> if you are using MinGW, it is probably simpler to move to the root of the openttd checkout you are compiling and use "patch -p1 -i <patch_file>"
10:53:51  <Terkhen> I remember reports about tortoisesvn not applying patches correctly before
10:54:05  <kamnet> OK, I'll try that then.
10:55:26  <Terkhen> remember to revert the subversion repository to its original state before patching again :)
10:55:27  <Terkhen> bbl
10:59:00  <peter1138> Pikka, chew
10:59:11  <Pikka> does he
10:59:21  <peter1138> apparently
10:59:30  <peter1138> why does proj1000 replace wagon sprites with colour remaps?
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11:01:10  <Pikka> because it can!
11:01:15  <peter1138> naughty
11:01:24  <Pikka> what should it replace?
11:02:08  <peter1138> ideally, nothing
11:02:18  <Pikka> where do I put my colour maps then?
11:02:47  <kamnet> Darn, still get the same error win I patch under MinGW. Oh well, I'll wait for feedback on what to try next
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11:03:09  <drac_boy> hi
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11:03:21  <kamnet> Good morning and merry Christmas drac_boy
11:03:34  <peter1138> well, grm
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11:04:37  <Pikka> have you found the one thing grm is still useful for? :)
11:05:07  <Pikka> I'd say the chances of any grf which uses the original sprites using grm is vanishingly small, though...
11:05:58  <peter1138> eh?
11:06:24  <drac_boy> thanks kamnet, you too
11:06:28  <Pikka> grm only works iif both conflicting grfs use it?
11:06:35  <peter1138> no
11:06:42  <peter1138> grm allocates sprites
11:06:58  <Pikka> hm
11:06:59  <peter1138> then you have to fuck around getting that reference in the right place :S
11:07:05  <Pikka> yay
11:07:06  <peter1138> chips uses grm, heh
11:07:16  <peter1138> i think it's something that's easier with nml though, maybe
11:07:44  <Pikka> where'd this come from, btw?  a complaint?
11:07:54  <peter1138> dbg: [sprite] Tried to load recolour sprite #2735 as a normal sprite. Probable cause: NewGRF interference
11:07:57  <peter1138> etc etc
11:07:58  * Pikka isn't convinced anything's easier with nml, but each to their own
11:09:35  <peter1138> dunno, i've never used it
11:09:46  <peter1138> i have written forms that nfo that nobody uses
11:10:00  <peter1138> (setting properties for multiple items with 1 action 0)
11:10:49  <Pikka> hm?
11:11:17  <peter1138> mostly i see 1 action 0 with each property for a single item
11:11:32  <Pikka>  7792 * 28	 00 03 01 \b11 30 1F
11:11:32  <Pikka> \w	320	//	Zeppelin
11:11:32  <Pikka> \w	768	//	Embraer ERJ 145
11:11:32  <Pikka> \w	768	//	Boeing 767
11:11:32  <Pikka> \w	256	//	British Aerospace BAC1-11
11:11:33  <Pikka> \w	320	//	Fokker F100
11:11:34  <Pikka> \w	256	//	ATR-72
11:11:36  <Pikka> \w	1600	//	Airbus A340
11:11:38  <Pikka> \w	1024	//	Airbus A330
11:11:40  <Pikka> \w0
11:11:40  <peter1138> yes, you do it too :D
11:11:42  <Pikka> \w	640	//	Douglas DC-8
11:11:44  <Pikka> \w	160	//	deHavilland Dragon Rapide
11:11:48  <Pikka> something like that?
11:11:49  <peter1138> thanks, i needed all that
11:12:03  <Pikka> I found the shortest example I could :P
11:12:48  <Pikka> well, it wasn't, but shorter ones are less interesting, mostly setting a particular variable to 0 for all IDs :)
11:12:54  <Pikka> -variable +property
11:17:50  <Pikka> peter1138:  is this something that, in your opinion, needs addressing?  or is it just naughty?
11:19:21  <Pikka> because as you said it might be a bit of a bugger to fix
11:20:00  <Pikka> alternatively, an easy way to create "new" recolour sprites? ;)
11:20:43  <peter1138> yeah, i see 89 references to AD 8A, and that obviously doesn't include the references to other ranges in there, heh
11:21:03  <peter1138> it's easy to create them, just difficult to reference them
11:22:49  <Pikka> yes, to reference them :)
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11:24:16  <Pikka> these are the "real world-like" colours, so every vehicle references at least one of the 35 recolour maps...
11:27:54  <drac_boy> hm these wagons that have low sides that are hingled...
11:28:05  <drac_boy> would they had been a flatcar or open wagon?
11:30:06  <Pikka> probably
11:30:29  <drac_boy> yeah but which one tho? :)
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11:42:58  <MNIM> Why can't we get that on trains?
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11:55:49  <drac_boy> heh I don't know how to comment on that :)
11:55:56  <drac_boy> I wouldn't had cared for seeing it :)
11:59:56  <Flygon> Wait
12:00:01  <Flygon> that's being painted over?
12:00:02  <Flygon> fuuuuuuuuuuuuu
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12:31:44  <drac_boy> heh heh flygon :)
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12:32:23  <Flygon> It's a brilliant piece of art
12:32:28  <Flygon> And I say that as a cartoonist
12:35:25  <drac_boy> how're you btw?
12:40:15  <Flygon> I'm okay enough
12:40:16  <Flygon> You?
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12:41:33  <drac_boy> doing ok
12:43:29  <frosch123> hmm, sometimes when i look into the screenshot forum, i think i am playing a different game
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12:54:27  <drac_boy> heh frosch123
12:55:03  <frosch123> moin
12:55:13  <drac_boy> how doing?
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15:02:16  <Wolf01> hello
15:03:39  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 :)
15:09:30  <drac_boy> hi terkhen and Wolf01 and btw merry xmas? :)
15:09:53  <Wolf01> Sol invictus here :P
15:10:35  <Wolf01> at least for me and some friends of mine
15:11:04  <Wolf01> (Mithraism is accepted too)
15:11:58  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: is YACD+FIRS even possible?
15:12:21  <SpComb> YACD 2.3 seems to be too old
15:12:45  <Wolf01> I read YOLO 2.3
15:22:24  * SpComb speculates on FIRS support in the upcoming DBSet release
15:22:37  <SpComb> FIRS is great, mind
15:23:03  <SpComb> makes cargo almost as interesting as passenger destinations
15:29:27  * drac_boy still has to work on my cargos a little bit :-s
15:54:41  <drac_boy> any of you think that crude oil should really be turned into refined oil or more of chemical instead?
15:54:49  <drac_boy> (in name of the game)
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16:52:03  * drac_boy shakes many useless lines out of this sheet
16:55:47  <V453000> is there anything by which I can control how do the new sprites in purchase menu look?
16:55:54  <V453000> they look like having gaps before and after them
16:56:37  <V453000> ... I already cleaned NUTS up but there are gaps between left border of the window and the sprite, and between the sprite and the text ... any way to change that?
17:00:24  <drac_boy> no idea sorry? :)
17:00:35  <drac_boy> and which of I'm going off now..need a break from this *** tracking table already :->
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17:05:28  <frosch123> V453000: the reference points (x_offs and y_offs) of all sprites are aligned
17:05:52  <frosch123> from there ottd checks the maxium extent to the left and right
17:06:51  <frosch123> V453000: also check whether you disabled the sprite cropping of nml; you might need it :)
17:07:27  <frosch123> (i.e. it should be enabled)
17:07:37  <frosch123> (not sure about the default though)
17:09:16  <V453000> oh
17:09:20  <V453000> where can I find the cropping?
17:09:45  <frosch123>   -c                    crop extraneous transparent blue from real sprites
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17:11:40  <V453000> -c had no effect, now offsets :)
17:12:39  <SpComb> I wonder how effective a strategy e.g. 2x eng-supplies + 6x coal/ironore/scrap and 2x eng-supplies + 6x metal trains are in FIRS
17:13:08  <SpComb> i.e. the same trains ship raw materials to the primary, refined materials to the teritary, and the same trains ship the supplies back
17:13:43  <V453000> just use refit and use full train capacity when needed?
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17:21:37  <V453000> now this is wtf :D frosch123: whatever offset values I add, it always centers the sprites at the same spot
17:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: if you move the anchor point too far, it moves the sprite to the left of the window, but then not any further
17:22:50  <Eddi|zuHause> (if you talk about the purchase menu)
17:22:55  <V453000> yeha
17:22:57  <V453000> yeah
17:23:12  <frosch123> V453000: you should make sure to have at least one vehicle from another grf (ideally default vehicle) to align your vehicle to
17:23:33  <frosch123> unless you want to annoy everyone mixing sets :p
17:24:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i should probably review the CETS purchase sprites now, the offsets there weren't really right
17:24:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i should also probably offer a special purchase sprite template
17:24:41  <Eddi|zuHause> or pixa-assemble engine+tender
17:24:51  <Eddi|zuHause> for articulated vehicles
17:25:17  <V453000> I just have custom purchase menu sprites, for numbers, assembled vehicles, ..
17:30:17  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you have no assembling-script either ;)
17:32:21  <frosch123> yeah, i heard he builds junctions himself
17:33:14  <V453000> ? :d
17:38:15  <V453000> this offset thing is seriously wtf
17:38:24  <V453000> I will annoy you with it later :) got to run now
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18:28:44  <Eddi|zuHause>
18:32:36  <frosch123> yeah, "merci" in big letters. but the real message is a bit more hidden :)
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18:45:24  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24852 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2012-12-25 18:45:18 UTC)
18:45:25  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:26  <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 64 changes by chenwt0315
18:45:27  <DorpsGek> italian - 14 changes by lorenzodv
18:45:28  <DorpsGek> korean - 33 changes by telk5093
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20:03:48  <andythenorth> peter1138: chips is nfo btw
20:03:53  <andythenorth> nml !stations
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20:48:57  <drac_boy> hi
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21:00:06  <peter1138> hm
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21:21:23  <LordAro> hey all
21:21:29  <LordAro> merry Christmas!
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21:33:44  <drac_boy> thanks :)
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21:39:31  <drac_boy> how do NARS manage to replace a wagon with another wagon while still using the same id anyway?
21:40:05  <frosch123> define "another wagon"
21:40:11  <frosch123> just a different livery?
21:40:30  <frosch123> maybe it depends on build date
21:40:48  <planetmaker> or on the cargo subtype (refit options)
21:41:08  <frosch123> oh, there was something on my todo list for today ...
21:41:49  <drac_boy> frosch123 hm well I only can recall one wagon being in buy list then a few months later its been replaced with something and if I rebuild my train it always seem a bit different (as in more than just livery)
21:42:04  <drac_boy> maybe I can try check again later but I'm pretty sure of it
21:42:15  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: screenshots?
21:42:37  <planetmaker> drac_boy, livery doesn't need to mean that only colour changes. It can be abused to show a plane instead of a train, if you want it so ;-)
21:42:39  <drac_boy> (and I have to say that is a perfectly good way to MESS UP autoreplace because it doesn't know how to replace same with same even although its not
21:45:03  <peter1138> hmm, i need a town setting between low and very low :S
21:45:12  <frosch123> enter a custom number
21:48:14  <planetmaker> random number: 13
21:54:21  <drac_boy> hm the Passenger Car in 1920 is 45t(47t) and 177kph but Passenger Car in 1940 is 28t(30t) and 201kph. but I also recall that in ottd the steam locomotives had same thing, it would be 1200hp/80kph one year then 1600hp/88kph next year and annoyingly the autoreplace window thinks I own the latter when the train dialog clearly shows they're still the old one
21:54:38  <drac_boy> sorry about no screenshot on the passenger car .. the other computer isn't online atm
21:54:54  <frosch123> drac_boy:
21:55:05  <frosch123> the stuff in that list can dynamically depend on basically anything
21:55:13  <frosch123> build date, current date, consist composition
21:55:22  <frosch123> cargotype
21:55:27  <frosch123> refit subtype
21:55:44  <drac_boy> oic who really invented some of these without fixing the aspects of games it breaks in first place?
21:55:48  <drac_boy> mm well thanks anyway
21:55:53  <planetmaker> stats can depend on build date. Or whether the current year is divisible by 17
21:56:01  <frosch123> however, the concept of nars is completely broken if it comes to breakdowns
21:56:02  <planetmaker> or whether it's sunday
21:56:26  <frosch123> you cannot play nars with breakdowns enables, since the reliability may render entire engie series useless
21:56:52  <drac_boy> you'll had thought the nars grf would come with a patch to force autoreplace to be able to still replace something in-stu
21:57:03  <drac_boy> but anyway thats beyond my topic atm
21:57:22  <Eddi|zuHause> this is truely... german: :p
21:58:10  <peter1138> "you will had" what?
21:58:33  <planetmaker> outch, eddi
21:58:43  <planetmaker> but dated 1983 :D
21:58:47  <drac_boy> frosch123 I've always played with reduced breakdown. I find normal breakdown level to be a bit too sensitive sometimes
21:59:24  <drac_boy> but even then theres still nothing like a freshly serviced train at 91% leaving depot only to break down on the first tile outside the depot :->
22:00:02  <planetmaker> aua aua aua... important is also item IV
22:00:56  <frosch123> drac_boy: imo the point of breakdowns is that you can choose engines depending on their reliability
22:01:09  <frosch123> which is the only engine property which is randomised between games
22:01:27  <frosch123> and which can force you to use a different engine than would be optimal given it
22:01:34  <frosch123> s other stats
22:02:04  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm fairly convinced that it's satirical. but it's truely great :p
22:02:13  <frosch123> but that only works if there are alternative engines
22:02:18  <frosch123> nars has no alternative engines
22:02:34  <planetmaker> might be, Eddi|zuHause :-) Yes, amazing. And to the point ;-)
22:03:13  <frosch123> "DwBm" ....
22:03:30  <frosch123> that could be a term from the military
22:03:59  <drac_boy> hmm that reminds me I still have to check about livery refit affecting wagon lengths intentionally
22:04:03  * drac_boy goes looking for it now
22:04:19  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: railway and military wasn't really that different :)
22:04:49  <frosch123> 2b is definitely fake
22:04:57  <frosch123> i would have believed the rest
22:05:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still laughing about 2b :)
22:07:10  <murr4y> baseset = the new data/ dir?
22:07:25  <peter1138> bah, my raspbmc won't boot right :S
22:07:31  <frosch123> murr4y: not quite
22:08:07  <murr4y> oh
22:08:08  <frosch123> data was split into baseset, newgrf
22:08:16  <frosch123> maybe also ai
22:08:27  <frosch123> (don't know whether they were part of data)
22:09:12  <murr4y> but the open*fx dirs can be put in baseset?
22:09:46  <frosch123> they have to
22:09:58  <murr4y> yeah opensfx is listed under "base sounds set", i guess that means it works
22:10:09  <murr4y> i still don't have any sound but it's probably another issue
22:10:45  <murr4y> frosch123: thanks
22:10:47  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r24853 /trunk/src (3 files) (2012-12-25 22:10:43 UTC)
22:10:48  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Extend widget data member to 32 bits so that sprite IDs >= 2^16 can be used.
22:10:56  <LordAro> if you can select it in game, there is no issue with OTTD detection
22:11:10  <LordAro> sure your sound levels (in game and out) are set correctly?
22:11:50  <murr4y> well yeah, music works, and "effects volume" is max
22:15:13  <murr4y> i installed timidity for music as the FAQ describes, and that worked for music but not sound
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22:16:49  <LordAro> OpenSFX is selected in game options?
22:17:26  <murr4y> yes
22:17:52  <glx> are other application sounds play while openttd music is played ?
22:18:18  <murr4y> hm, no
22:18:44  <glx> so timidity got exclusive rights on the sound device
22:19:15  <murr4y> i guess so. but sounds do not work even if music is disabled
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22:25:09  <murr4y> no ideas what could cause this? i tried 'aoss ./openttd' too, without any luck
22:25:55  <frosch123> check "./openttd --help" and try different sound drivers with "-s"
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22:29:12  <murr4y> thanks, my only options were 'sdl' and 'null', neither worked
22:30:27  <frosch123> hmm, ok, let's start with the easy questions :)
22:30:38  <frosch123> did you select osfx in game options?
22:30:43  <murr4y> yep
22:30:53  <LordAro> already asked that ;)
22:31:02  <frosch123> oh
22:31:58  <murr4y> i'm on arch linux, i've installed packages extra/sdl, extra/sdl_sound, extra/sdl_mixer
22:32:35  <murr4y> on 64bit (openttd-1.2.3-linux-generic-amd64)
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22:34:48  <planetmaker> wb TB
22:40:05  <murr4y> frosch123 LordAro: in case you want to know, sound worked when run as root. so it is probably related to sdl and permissions
22:40:35  <LordAro> how odd
22:41:13  <murr4y> yeah, thanks for your help though
22:41:14  <LordAro> "[22:25:04] * TrueBrain has quit (Quit: reboot)" <-- planetmaker: he's probably not at-keyboard ;P
22:41:41  <TrueBrain> you automate your reboots?
22:42:41  <frosch123> maybe to reclaim memory leaked by the kernel? :p
22:43:12  <planetmaker> LordAro, I do believe that the quit message is actually accurate in his case ;-)
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22:43:19  <rubitita01248> Free sample of the new Carolina Herrera fragance
22:43:33  <TrueBrain> lol, OFTC is slow this time of year
22:43:35  <TrueBrain> come on
22:43:36  <TrueBrain> be faster
22:43:49  * LordAro downloads more memory
22:44:06  <TrueBrain> frosch123: in my case it is an IRQ that drops, which causes the disk I/O to come to a halt .. so yeah, something like that :P
22:44:07  <planetmaker> @kban rubitita01248
22:44:32  <__ln__> just @kb?
22:44:48  <TrueBrain> @kban rubitita01248 byebye spammer
22:44:49  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
22:44:49  *** rubitita01248 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [byebye spammer]
22:45:03  <planetmaker> hm. is a reason needed?
22:45:18  <LordAro> silly planetmaker, you need to tell the spambot why he is being banned :P
22:45:31  <TrueBrain> no, but you do need to authorize to the bot first
22:45:34  <TrueBrain> that is kinda a requirement ;)
22:52:48  <peter1138> hmm, newgrf scan is much quicker on linux
22:52:58  <peter1138> admittedly it'll all be cached but even so
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23:05:48  <planetmaker> you scan the same newgrfs, peter1138 ?
23:05:56  <planetmaker> the same folder?
23:05:57  <peter1138> more
23:06:07  <peter1138> no but i synced them
23:06:18  <peter1138> so ext4 vs ntfs
23:06:32  <peter1138> might just be the disk cache being way better on linux
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23:16:09  <KenjiE20> position on disk and fragmentation may play a part too
23:21:47  <Terkhen> good night
23:22:12  <peter1138> KenjiE20, shouldn't once it's in the disk cache
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23:28:13  <peter1138> bah
23:28:20  <peter1138> FioFindFullPath doesn't quite do what i wanted :S
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23:41:20  <peter1138> gives me .openttd/content_download/newgrf/...
23:41:45  <peter1138> even though the stuff is in .openttd/data
23:46:52  <Eddi|zuHause> you sure you got the right file?
23:47:18  <peter1138> yeah i think it just doesn't understand data/
23:47:24  <peter1138> it works for .openttd/newgrf/
23:48:57  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so just closing dolphin reduced Xorg's processor usage from 20% to 2%
23:50:15  <peter1138> heh
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