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00:08:50 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:10:10 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:15:05 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 00:20:24 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:29 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:22:38 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:25:18 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 00:25:18 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:53 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 00:32:20 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 00:32:20 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:36 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:34:50 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 00:36:46 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-2.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:01:31 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:22:52 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 01:45:10 <drac_boy> mmm 01:45:18 * drac_boy still thinks theres a few too many similar locomotives 01:47:12 <drac_boy> at least deciding on the first locomotive being a non-superheated 0-4-0 with small tires wasn't hard 01:47:21 <drac_boy> heh 01:52:44 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-099-093.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:56:17 <drac_boy> don't know if theres anyone that might know but .. whats probably the earliest diesel locomotive (whether its electric transmission or not) for non-yard duty basically? 01:56:40 <drac_boy> I'm thinking its probably the 1930s but I don't know (and finding things in other langauges isn't my best thing neither) 02:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: the first were diesel railcars, i presume 02:02:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the first german stand-alone diesel engine was the V140 02:02:54 <Eddi|zuHause> then there was the V188 and the V36 [war-time engines] 02:03:15 <drac_boy> 1935, seem like I had been guessing pretty close. thanks for that 02:03:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and post-war there was the V200 02:03:24 <drac_boy> heh V200.... 02:03:29 * drac_boy likes these >_< 02:04:13 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: i think diesel railcars were around mid-1920s 02:04:27 <drac_boy> V36 I don't know what to say about it but I have seen it quite a number of times on model layouts based after typical branch lines in germany. especially hauling the thunderbox coaches (so-called for rough ride as far as I have read) 02:04:33 <Eddi|zuHause> or benzol 02:06:10 <drac_boy> and (I had to check to be sure) a few of the V36 also had that 'train observation' dome on their cab roof but I've never seen anyone modifying a model to have one yet 02:06:30 <drac_boy> it looks a little odd maybe but...its at least a bit streamlined rather than just a chunky box 02:06:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i have heard about that as well 02:12:22 <drac_boy> about railcars if it was not for the price I would have had been owning a marklin VT11.5 already but heh I'll rather not atm :-p 02:12:52 <drac_boy> trainsets aren't exactly the best thing when you're on a short budget 02:13:13 <drac_boy> at least I can build as many as I want to in dbsetxl grf...its only a computer game :) 02:36:43 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-125-91.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 02:45:53 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-173-100.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:53:54 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:54:02 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip1.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 02:57:41 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 02:57:41 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:16 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 03:18:50 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 03:24:48 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-125-91.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 03:52:12 <Eddi|zuHause> top 03:58:38 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-111-70-16.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:10:43 <Pikka> shh 04:13:33 <Flygon> http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/extreme-airline-complaints-chinese-passengers-attack-flight-crews-open-plane-doors-20121211-2b6m4.html And you thought LAX was bad 04:19:35 <Flygon> It explains why China are building HSR so insanely agressively, though 05:17:15 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@186.212.209.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5875.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4FD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:58:06 *** MinchinWeb [ce5195a0@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:18:47 *** Rhamphoryncus_ [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 06:18:50 <Pikka> hooray 06:19:18 <Pikka> thanks to the new buy menu sprite resizing, I have to add 256 var2 checks and 256 new sprite sets to ukrs2... 06:19:45 <Pikka> and a dozen or so to the addon set 06:20:06 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has joined #openttd 06:22:41 <Pikka> or do I? that's odd... 06:22:49 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:22:54 <Supercheese> ? 06:23:50 <Pikka> despite changing the sprite offsets for 1.3.0, they still look right in 1.2.3 06:24:15 <Pikka> what sorcery is this 06:27:10 <Pikka> well, I shan't complain 06:37:33 <Flygon> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7104/7199706990_826c7cc6e0_z.jpg I don't think this is how you're suppose to triple head... :p 06:40:40 *** MinchinWeb [ce5195a0@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:39:12 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:49:31 <Flygon> http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/upfield-or-up-the-creek-its-all-the-same-time-travelling-20121225-2bv3b.html Good thing you don't need to manage announcements via OpenTTD @_@ 07:53:40 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@5ad287fa.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 08:01:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:12:02 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:32:04 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@5ad287fa.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:39:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:11:21 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:11:24 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 09:16:47 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:16 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-51-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:30:22 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 09:37:36 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:49:43 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 09:49:43 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: the sprite is always clamped to the left border of the window 09:52:54 *** Amis [~Amis@54009A1C.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 09:55:03 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:55:15 <Amis> Hallo! Is it possible to move the C:\Users\...\Documents\OpenTTD folder somewhere else? 09:55:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 09:55:56 <Amis> There's a setting for it somewhere? 09:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause> move it to somewhere, and set the "working directory" to that place in the link 10:02:19 <Amis> Ahh, yay, thanks 10:13:31 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@80.187.201.33] has joined #openttd 10:28:20 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 10:33:36 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@80.187.201.33] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:37:15 <Terkhen> good morning 10:47:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1901C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:51:55 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-100.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:03:27 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-173-100.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:10:03 * Pikka returns, cool Eddi|zuHause, that's that problem avoided then 11:11:30 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 11:12:00 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:13:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:13:39 <andythenorth> Pikka: bonjour 11:13:50 <Pikka> bongiorno 11:14:03 <andythenorth> playing a UKRS 2 + blah game 11:14:09 <andythenorth> I turned on all the blah 11:14:10 <andythenorth> ;) 11:14:21 <andythenorth> that's a lot of engines to choose from :) 11:14:27 <Pikka> it is 11:14:45 <Pikka> I added an early retirement de-clutter parameter, it helps 11:15:06 <andythenorth> is it intentionally evil that I have fast freight wagons, but they're restricted by need for brake van? 11:15:13 <Pikka> do you? 11:15:18 <Pikka> which ones? 11:17:04 <Pikka> hmm 11:17:11 <andythenorth> welded tank wagon 11:17:26 <andythenorth> cartic 11:17:39 <Pikka> welded tank wagon is only 10mph over 11:17:45 <Pikka> cartic should probably be fixed, good point 11:17:46 <andythenorth> speedlink vans 11:17:59 <andythenorth> it's not a big deal, just wondered if it was intended 11:19:34 <Pikka> in the case of the tank wagon, yes 11:19:57 <Pikka> hmm 11:20:05 <Pikka> did you try cartic without the brake van? ;) 11:20:23 <andythenorth> nope, assumed there was no speed gain :P 11:20:29 <andythenorth> is it special cased? 11:20:56 <Pikka> there's no caboose check for the cartic that I can see, so it should run without a brakevan even before 75 11:21:05 <Pikka> after 75, everything can run without a brakevan 11:21:30 <andythenorth> next game I might play with fewer '+' stuff :) 11:21:39 <andythenorth> it's pretty good though, is it done yet? 11:22:28 <Pikka> the main set is done, for a given value of done... just bug fix releases now. The + set will keep being added to as long as people want to keep drawing it. 11:23:19 <andythenorth> the only feedback I have is I could have used a type 4 earlier in this game 11:24:00 <Pikka> can you suggest a type 4 earlier than the Peak and the 47? 11:25:27 <andythenorth> probly not a real one :P 11:25:47 <Pikka> 9Fs 4 lyfe then :P 11:28:18 <Pikka> perhaps the cartic and other wagons that don't require a brakevan should have some hint text pre-'75... 11:29:11 <Pikka> or perhaps I'll let people work it out for themselves ;) 11:29:37 <Pikka> your bigger buy menu sprites patch makes the buy menu so much longer btw andy 11:29:53 <Pikka> seems to add about 2px padding above and below each vehicle 11:29:55 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 11:30:06 <drac_boy> hi 11:30:56 <Pikka> andy: what about the Leader, that's kinda like a Type 4? :P 11:31:50 <michi_cc> Pikka: It scales for oversize in both directions. Crop your extra blue :) 11:32:01 <michi_cc> (Or draw smaller.) 11:32:32 <Pikka> the blue's cropped by grfcodec, natch 11:32:56 <Pikka> the sprites are, for the most part, 1px shorter vertically than the default vehicles :) 11:33:45 <Pikka> but no, I see that the default vehicles do not have the extra 11:33:52 <Pikka> so I guess it's my fault ;) 11:34:57 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe5ba.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:50 <drac_boy> you adding some new locomotives pikka? 11:36:10 <Pikka> only if people are drawing them 11:36:23 <drac_boy> ah 11:36:24 <Pikka> should have another release in the next few days, but it's mainly bugfixes 11:36:42 <drac_boy> is ireland included or thats a bit too different country? 11:37:10 <Pikka> not only a different country but a different gauge 11:40:01 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:42:07 <drac_boy> hmm fair enough, w as just thinking of their one unusual locomotive experinment but oh well :) 11:43:35 <Pikka> the addon set has the Leader, doesn't need the Turf Burner as well :) 11:44:08 <andythenorth> I assumed the leader was rubbish :P 11:44:36 <andythenorth> hmm 11:44:37 <andythenorth> GT3 11:44:44 <Pikka> GT3 is the best 11:44:50 <Pikka> a little expensive :) 11:44:53 <andythenorth> I've been ignoring all the weird addon prototypes :P 11:44:55 <drac_boy> heh nice of you to know that one too and pikka the real reason I bought it up tho was that compared to the Leader the Turf at least was put into service for a while with no complaining from politics 11:45:07 <Pikka> also this is embarrassing, looks like I wasn't cropping sprites after all. I hope there wasn't a reason for that... 11:47:57 <Pikka> didn't seem to help much... 11:56:00 <Pikka> Oh well, ain't bovvered. Ain't bovvered enough, anyway. Perhaps someone else will find the cause for me later. :) 11:56:13 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host115-94-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:56:22 <Wolf01> hello 11:57:48 <drac_boy> hi Wolf01 11:57:56 <drac_boy> had enough christmas drinking? :) heh 11:59:02 <andythenorth> frosch123: SV with goal of 17 industries is...interesting 11:59:17 <Wolf01> I can't drink :( 11:59:20 <andythenorth> this town is all brewery o_O 11:59:22 <drac_boy> oh heh ok 11:59:31 <drac_boy> how're you still Wolf01? 11:59:50 <frosch123> andythenorth: yay :) 12:00:06 <Wolf01> I had enough of eating 12:01:35 <drac_boy> what doing now then Wolf01? 12:01:48 <Wolf01> digesting 4 sheeps and 2 hares 12:02:20 <drac_boy> 0-o 12:02:51 <andythenorth> frosch123: just another 8 to build (some offscreen) http://imagebin.org/240644 12:02:53 <andythenorth> :P 12:03:06 <andythenorth> I only have 10% of the total transport goal though :( 12:05:03 *** nerelo [nerelo@188.85-85-19.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined #openttd 12:05:04 <nerelo> http://www.carolinaherrera.com/212/es/areyouonthelist?share=MRJ0GjIAOsV_TzfOTiLllQLnBdnPDFj8gXcWWyMt16jkz4rz3EUUdzs6j6FXsjB4447F-isvxjqkXd4Qey2GHw#episodio-6 12:05:18 <Pikka> michi_cc, just to clarify: if the grey cell, not including the lines, is 18px high, does that mean I have an 18px high sprite somewhere? 12:05:22 <frosch123> @kban nerelo 12:05:23 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!nerelo@188.85-85-19.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] by DorpsGek 12:05:23 *** nerelo was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [frosch123] 12:06:27 <Pikka> andythenorth: I expect those are some very happy pigs. 12:06:38 <Pikka> and/or cows 12:07:15 <michi_cc> Pikka: Height of the lines is "return max<uint>(FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL + WD_MATRIX_TOP + WD_MATRIX_BOTTOM, GetVehicleImageCellSize(type, EIT_PURCHASE).height);", i.e. the bigger value of the text height or the max purchase sprite height of all rail vehicles (for all railtypes). 12:07:40 <Pikka> hmm 12:07:52 <Pikka> the text is just normal text, and I can't find an 18px high sprite anywhere 12:08:31 <Pikka> I tried adjusting the offsets for my 1px dummy second head sprites, thinking that might be the problem, but it didn't make any difference. 12:08:43 <andythenorth> does it fart about with any adjustments? 12:08:51 * andythenorth looks in the spec for those weird train adjustments 12:08:55 <Pikka> the text? no, andy. 12:10:37 <andythenorth> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/GlobalVariables#Y-Offset_for_train_sprites_.280E_.2F_8E.29 12:10:38 <andythenorth> ? 12:10:54 <andythenorth> probably a rabbit hole 12:11:03 <murr4y> hi, how do i make my server autopause when 0 clients are connected? 12:12:11 <Pikka> min_active_clients , murr4y 12:12:16 <Pikka> http://wiki.openttd.org/Console#Server_variables 12:12:31 <murr4y> aha, thank you 12:12:35 <murr4y> i'll bookmark that page :) 12:13:28 <Pikka> set to 02, andythenorth 12:13:32 <Pikka> like every other trainset ever 12:13:34 <frosch123> Pikka: the purchase list considers all vehicle sprites, also those which are not yet/anymore available for purchae 12:13:35 <andythenorth> :P 12:13:47 <frosch123> so, enable "vehicle never expire" and set year to 3000 :) 12:13:47 <andythenorth> does it consider ships too? 12:14:01 <Pikka> I did, frosch123 12:14:20 <Pikka> and I searched the nfo for 18px high sprites for the purchase menu, and there aren't any 12:14:50 <Pikka> the only 18px high sprites are the | views of certain short-length wagons. 12:16:48 <frosch123> hmm, i guess ottd should only consider the engines available in the climate :p 12:17:46 <Pikka> hm 12:19:28 <Pikka> that could be it... 12:19:32 <Pikka> let me try something 12:19:46 <frosch123> it is that for sure :p 12:19:49 <drac_boy> not to take this offtopic but any of you think a 1920s electric locomotive should be C or 1'C1' wheel arrangement? its more or less a mixed duty locomotive with a bit of speed 12:20:25 <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1997/ <- that should suffice 12:20:33 <Pikka> let your imagination run wild, drac_boy 12:20:51 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: the ones i know are 1'C2' 12:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> or (1'B)(B1') 12:21:17 <Pikka> yep, there we go 12:21:49 <Pikka> if I set my "housecleaning" to set climate of all IDs to 07 instead of 06, I get three question marks in the buylist 12:21:55 <Pikka> three 18px tall question marks :) 12:22:04 <Flygon> Ah, drac_boy, I was looking for you earlier, but I forgot what for now 12:22:05 <Pikka> *instead of 00 12:22:10 <drac_boy> mm so I should have nondrive axles too then 12:22:40 <Pikka> 20px, but whatever :] 12:23:36 <Pikka> this may have something to do with me eating the sprites for those vehicles for my recolour maps, as I was told off for doing earlier today. :P 12:24:10 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24854 trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp (2012-12-26 12:24:03 UTC) 12:24:11 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r24839): Only consider vehicles available in the climate for purchase/depot cell size. 12:24:16 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause funny thing to mention that, when I was looking up the V140 I found one site with a few other locomotives and one was the E16 aka BR116 .. and it pretty much looks like a (1'B)(B1') 12:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: no, that's actually a 1'Do1' 12:24:41 <drac_boy> or is it Bo and not B? the picture wasn't too clear to tell 12:24:49 * Pikka gives frosch123 christmas candy 12:24:53 <drac_boy> oh? the seperated set of drivers fooled me I guess :-s 12:25:10 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: the (1'B)(B1') is the E77 12:25:29 <drac_boy> hi flygon? :P 12:25:32 <drac_boy> how're you? 12:26:30 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: which dates back to pre-WWI plans but was delayed due to the war, and thus was already outdated when it was built 12:26:36 <Flygon> I'm okay 12:26:42 <Flygon> You? 12:27:29 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:28:11 <andythenorth> Pikka: anyone offered to draw lowmac / well wagons? 12:28:30 <Pikka> I had intended them for the original set but never got around to them, andy 12:28:36 <andythenorth> probably a bit slow :P 12:28:54 <Pikka> they don't have to be prototypical :P 12:29:06 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause outdated sounds like the Alco 'Black' carbody diesel they built to test after WWII .. it was outdated right off the starting line ... eventually got sidelined in a short time 12:29:21 <drac_boy> at least the Alco PA that followed was a better seller 12:29:59 <Pikka> Andy: I had 1920 intro year, 50mph, capacity 14 12:30:00 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: well mostly, it still was rod-driven at a time the E16 was already single-driven [based on a swiss engine] 12:30:00 <drac_boy> doing ok flygon and I can't remember what I told you yesterday neither so .. oh well guess we'll have to find something new to talk about ;) 12:30:14 <Flygon> Yay 12:30:16 <Flygon> :p 12:30:24 <Flygon> Oh 12:30:26 <Flygon> I remembered now 12:30:42 <Flygon> A Vicrail set would be reeeeaaaaaaaallly boring between 1910 to 2004 12:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: more easily seen if you compare the prussian E06 to the bavarian E16, which basically are for the same purpose [express trains] 12:30:49 <drac_boy> heh heh 12:31:01 <Flygon> Trains reached 115km/h by 1915 12:31:06 <Flygon> And 140km/h by 1935 12:31:21 <Flygon> ...they broke 160km/h in 1987 >_> 12:31:53 <drac_boy> flygon its a matter of which country and which technology 12:32:12 <Flygon> Australia, Victoria :P 12:32:40 <andythenorth> hmm 12:32:47 <Eddi|zuHause> the E06 was an improvement over the pre-war E01, but it didn't really include many [potentially high-risk] technology improvements 12:32:47 <andythenorth> Pikka: comtic? 12:33:02 <drac_boy> I've found matters where cape gauge was already doing 100kph even for most freight wagons by the 1960's ... but go to a different country and their metre gauge only has 50-70kph freights and no more than 80kph on passengers even although they seem to be still using just as much foreign builder mix 12:33:04 <andythenorth> http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/comtic 12:33:17 <drac_boy> so yeah flygon sometimes comparing different railroads can be rather amusing 12:33:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the bavarians didn't have a pre-war express engine, thus they copied a swiss design for their E16 12:33:34 <Pikka> pain to do loads, andy 12:33:50 <Pikka> but if you want to have a go, they'd be most welcome I'm sure :P 12:33:55 <Flygon> Was it the conditions of the tracks? Or the laws in place? 12:33:56 <Eddi|zuHause> which paved the way for the later very popular 1'Do1' wheel arrangement 12:34:11 <Eddi|zuHause> while the E06 was basically a dead-end, technology and design-wise 12:34:28 <drac_boy> flygon neither ... both were well kept tracks ... and both sometimes ironically used the exact same builders (SLM there and SLM over there) 12:34:31 <drac_boy> so...mm 12:35:00 <Flygon> eg. Australia did get overpowered enough locomotives by the 1970s to allow for 200km/h+ operation... but were regeared lower for maintaince and acceleration reasons, because they'd never break 130km/h anyway 12:35:02 <Flygon> Ah 12:35:10 <Pikka> I suppose I'd have to do my mini-scale trucks for the loads, eh? 12:35:11 <Flygon> Perhaps the country's laws? 12:35:41 <Flygon> eg. how the TGV can't legally go over 115km/h in Australia, barring special circumstances 12:36:11 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause it could be just me but sometimes I never understood why certain electric locomotives with long chassis seem to always want to put at least two or more traction motors under the extreme end of the open platforms where theres little weight to be had for tractive 12:36:24 <drac_boy> let me find a photo of one just in case... 12:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause> after the E16, the E17, E18 and E19 used the 1'Do1' design 12:37:45 <Eddi|zuHause> post-WWII the Bo'Bo' design took over 12:38:05 <Eddi|zuHause> which was first applied in the pre-WWII E44 12:38:40 <andythenorth> Pikka: you would need mini scale yes :P 12:38:46 <andythenorth> but you're doing a truck set, right? 12:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause> (with the exception of a very early bavarian engine, which also happened to have Bo'Bo') 12:38:51 <michi_cc> frosch123: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1998/ for FS#5405? 12:38:59 <Pikka> for a given value of "doing" 12:39:03 <Pikka> I drew one bus about a year ago 12:39:45 <Pikka> everyone's fixing my bugs tonight :) 12:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to HOVS, actually? 12:40:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i've got a "secret" version from about 5 years ago 12:40:19 <Pikka> that was as far as it got 5 years ago 12:40:34 <Pikka> I would like to do a new version, smaller scaled 12:40:40 <Pikka> I've done the planning and drawn one bus :) 12:41:41 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:44:47 <drac_boy> sorry not sure where the picture I was thinking of is so I had to find something a bit close although not the one I had in mind... 12:45:26 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r24855 trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp (2012-12-26 12:45:19 UTC) 12:45:27 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5405]: Don't send aircraft to depots that are out of range of the next destination. 12:45:36 <drac_boy> http://www.engrailhistory.info/imfile/r02140.jpg think of something like that but with a shorter box length .. and drive axles replacing the two nondrive guide axles. thats what I meant, can't be that good on traction in such position with little weight to bear onto them 12:46:21 <Terkhen> oooh, nice fixes 12:46:45 <Pikka> I set 'em up, he knocks 'em down 12:47:14 <andythenorth> setup a spec for newgrf smoke? 12:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: never seen such a design 12:47:53 <Pikka> hehehe... 12:48:03 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause yeah there were only a few of them as far as I had noticed 12:48:03 <Pikka> why not roadtypes while we're at it? 12:48:16 <andythenorth> meh to roadtypes :P 12:48:22 <andythenorth> I think smoke is easy 12:48:37 <andythenorth> unless it turns into a full spec for arbitrary newgrf effect vehicles :( 12:48:43 <andythenorth> which seems totally overkill to me 12:48:57 <Pikka> contrails! 12:48:58 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause mind you one of the few main reasons usa had the 'famous' GG1 was because PRR needed some electric locomotives but did not like how the usual (such as ones like that photo there) electric boxes had very little cab protection in road crossing accidents 12:49:05 <andythenorth> Pikka: keep cargo in them? 12:49:09 <Pikka> yes 12:49:10 <drac_boy> so a middle cab was needed .. and add some sculpturing to it .. there's your GG1 12:49:24 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: yes, i heard about that 12:49:35 <drac_boy> considering that the GG1 eventually were scheduled to 100mph .. I wouldn't be too surprised with that cab position thing :) 12:49:47 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:15 <andythenorth> Pikka: do you have any real cases for specifying your own smoke / effect sprites? 12:50:20 <drac_boy> andythenorth actually if you meant a smoke newgrf as in "what kind of smoke and how much of it" I could maybe like it 12:50:21 <andythenorth> rather than using the ones provided? 12:50:29 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 12:50:44 <Pikka> not really.. truck exhaust? 12:50:49 <drac_boy> it would be a good way to finally differ eg a small white plume from a 400hp diesel shunter from the thick black smoke of a 3000hp heavy diesel locomotive :) 12:50:56 <andythenorth> diesel smoke works ok for trucks 12:50:59 <andythenorth> HEQS uses it 12:51:03 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-173-100.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:06 <Pikka> probably 12:51:13 <Pikka> well, ships then, certainly 12:51:18 <Pikka> multiple funnels? 12:51:23 <Pikka> wakes? :P 12:51:34 <andythenorth> wakes can be done with animated water cycle 12:51:40 <drac_boy> pikka...multiple funnels would work nicely for steam liners .. they often had more than one funnel damn it :) 12:51:41 <andythenorth> multiple funnels is the killer app :P 12:51:46 <Pikka> aircraft could have exhaust from multiple engines... 12:52:36 <Pikka> what about a bus at a bus stop shooting passenger "smoke" out the side, ehehe... 12:52:57 <Pikka> but now we're getting into general particle effects, which you didn't want to ;) 12:53:49 <andythenorth> ho ho 12:54:09 <andythenorth> I've tried to spec it a few times :) 12:54:30 <andythenorth> but every time it gets mired in "you don't know what other authors want in future" :) 12:54:38 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has joined #openttd 12:57:06 <Pikka> let's get newgrf(air)ports working, yeah! 12:57:20 <Pikka> new year's resolution :P 12:57:24 <Terkhen> :) 12:57:26 <andythenorth> he :) 12:57:50 <Terkhen> I'm already failing my resolution of finishing the scenario format this year :P 12:58:01 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-100.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:58:04 <andythenorth> new airports \o/ 12:58:04 <Pikka> eh, you've got a couple of days 12:58:10 <Terkhen> I've done a few more patches already on these holidays though 12:58:15 <andythenorth> do I have to build airports tile-by-tile? 12:58:15 <Terkhen> about 20 missing :P 12:58:16 <Pikka> new sea ports, andy 12:58:36 <Emmy> Something tells me a lot in OTTD's current development gets mired in status quo itching, compatibility angst and fear of future desires. 12:59:18 <andythenorth> yeah 12:59:22 <andythenorth> it's software 13:00:39 <Terkhen> the words you use in that sentence put those considerations in a bad light, but you cannot make good software without them 13:00:53 <andythenorth> you can make PHP 13:01:12 <Terkhen> throwing those considerations behind and just moving forward without taking them into account may work in small teams (better in teams of one) 13:01:15 <andythenorth> and then you can make most of the internet with PHP 13:01:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24856 trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp (2012-12-26 13:01:09 UTC) 13:01:16 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5406]: Don't let UFOs and coal mines destroy depots. 13:01:25 <Emmy> Terkhen: yes, I am fully aware, but there's also such thing as overdoing it 13:01:31 <andythenorth> you can make Dwarf Fortress 13:01:34 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24857 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2012-12-26 13:01:28 UTC) 13:01:35 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Don't let UFOs and coal mines clear water. 13:01:40 <Terkhen> yep, we could make DF :P 13:01:44 <Terkhen> Emmy: what would you do instead? 13:04:52 <Emmy> well, there's not much to do differently except dare to make choices. 13:05:56 <Terkhen> deciding to not include something until it is ready and up to trunk standards is a choice... can you give me a specific example? 13:06:11 <andythenorth> afaik, there aren't many (any?) finished working patches that aren't included due to angst 13:06:26 <drac_boy> where's bridges being able to cross bridges? :) 13:06:28 <drac_boy> heh heh 13:06:32 <andythenorth> don't confuse the noise from people who can't / don't / won't code 13:06:46 <Emmy> cargodist? 13:07:02 <andythenorth> there is a crapload of noisy rubbish around suggestions and wishes, but all from people who only make noise, not code 13:07:02 <Emmy> new newgrf specs which Ive seen quite a bit of discussion about 13:07:10 <Emmy> new airports! 13:07:33 <andythenorth> airports is the only example I know of where there was a big hoo-ha and flouncy drama 13:07:46 <Terkhen> drac_boy: to my knowledge, not coded at all 13:07:54 <andythenorth> new airports? 13:08:06 <Terkhen> no, that sentence talks about the bridge thing 13:08:20 <andythenorth> oh the bridge thing is a load of crap anyway 13:08:32 <andythenorth> bridges can cross bridges 13:08:34 <andythenorth> want a screeny? 13:08:47 <Terkhen> http://hg.openttd.org/developers/yexo/airports.hg/ <--- current state of the most modern implementation of "new airports", not ready as decided by the author himself 13:09:04 <Terkhen> I don't know what the new newgrf specs are supposed to be, though 13:09:26 <andythenorth> I've played a test game with new airports in 13:09:35 <andythenorth> routing helicopters to wind turbines :P 13:09:52 <peter1138> i wrote newgrf bridges once 13:09:59 <andythenorth> http://imagebin.org/240650 13:10:04 <peter1138> act 1/2/3 style 13:10:36 <andythenorth> diagonals? 13:10:59 <drac_boy> andythenorth damn where did you create that screenshot from? :P 13:11:04 <andythenorth> in my game 13:11:06 <andythenorth> using ottd 13:11:29 <drac_boy> which version? 13:11:33 <andythenorth> latest 13:11:37 <andythenorth> o_O 13:11:50 <andythenorth> bridges over stations you'll never get 13:12:43 <peter1138> i wrote that once too 13:13:04 <andythenorth> did you make all station newgrf authors set a correct building height? :) 13:13:13 <Eddi|zuHause> bridges over road stations would be really useful 13:13:16 <Emmy> you can build bridges over bridge bases, but not bridges themselves. 13:13:31 <peter1138> no but it was a property 13:14:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Emmy: the code actually supports that, but it was disabled because we don't have graphics for it 13:14:36 <andythenorth> Emmy: ho ho, you're right 13:14:38 <drac_boy> andythenorth hmm...that would be nice in multiplayer where you are crowded for land yet another company has a bridge in front of where you want to bridge badly 13:14:40 <andythenorth> I never found that case 13:14:47 <drac_boy> remind me to check next time 13:14:59 <andythenorth> I got lucky with every bridge I've bridged :) 13:15:08 <Emmy> Eddi|zuHause: how so no graphics? 13:15:29 <Eddi|zuHause> tall bridges like the cantilever crossing each other 13:15:51 <Emmy> oh, right. 13:15:53 <andythenorth> would look a bit wrong 13:16:47 <Emmy> as wrong as some bridges crossing diagonal track, I suppose. 13:16:59 <andythenorth> hmm 13:17:08 * andythenorth tries to write a newgrf smoke / effects spec 13:18:24 <andythenorth> don't really know what's required 13:19:21 <Emmy> this is coming from someone who can't code, but you know what would be nice? 13:19:25 <andythenorth> what do the rest of you need? 13:19:39 <drac_boy> emmy why not? diagonal tracks exists for a reason 13:20:02 <Emmy> tunnels that can start from flat ground like bridges (dig down like bridges ramp up) 13:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> did someone actually code this, or was this just a mockup? 13:20:44 <Emmy> what, Eddi|zuHause? 13:20:55 <Eddi|zuHause> the tunnels thing, i've seen it before 13:21:04 <andythenorth> chunnel? 13:21:15 <andythenorth> there was a patch of some kind 13:22:17 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that was different 13:22:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Emmy: thing is, you need to give up the auto-detecting of the other tunnel end, and switch to drag-building like bridges, otherwise it should be fairly simple to do code-wise 13:23:14 <andythenorth> curved tunnels :P 13:23:19 <Emmy> yeah, that's a thing I want anyway 13:23:39 <Flygon> Curved tunnels would be sex 13:23:45 <andythenorth> no 13:23:49 <Flygon> Or darn close to it 13:23:50 <andythenorth> it would just be a thing in a game 13:23:56 <andythenorth> they're really quite different 13:24:04 <Emmy> silly andy. 13:24:09 <Flygon> ...I just realized how my previous statement could be misinterpereted 13:24:17 <Flygon> Someone whack me with an anvil please 13:24:43 * Emmy offers an acme mail-order 100kg anvil. 13:25:13 <andythenorth> so is the cb10 route rejected as a spec for newgrf effect control? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4263 13:25:33 <Flygon> Emmy: Emperium Anvil! 13:26:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1901C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:14 <murr4y> why can't i change currency to EUR in a network game? 13:26:23 <murr4y> all other currencies are available 13:26:46 <Kjetil> Because EU is not a network game. Everything is controlled by illuminati 13:26:57 <Terkhen> IIRC you cannot change to EUR if your current currency is programmed to switch to EUR at a given date 13:27:03 <Terkhen> I don't know the reason for not allowing it, though 13:27:49 <murr4y> aha 13:28:52 <Kjetil> Probably because EUR didn't exist before the end of the 1990s ? 13:30:58 <murr4y> but the guy i'm playing with says he has EUR active 13:31:51 <drac_boy> curved tunnels reminds me of simutrans, and how about underground stations right underneath the city .. instead of having to destroy buildings or use "catchment jumping" bus station tiles ;) 13:32:11 <drac_boy> heh meh I know the game codes are so different but simutrans had a lot more things realistic about its constructions :-s 13:33:00 <Terkhen> you new NewMapArray :P 13:33:04 <Terkhen> need* 13:33:38 <drac_boy> yeah thats the problem...too much work I imagine :) 13:34:32 <Terkhen> nah, it's just that most of the big features are coded by huge codechanges, and huge codechanges are complicated, long and tedious 13:34:50 * Terkhen does not remember if there are any attempts to improve the map array going on 13:35:15 <andythenorth> there was a mutliple map layers thing 13:35:47 <Emmy> not to mention a compatibility challenge and potentially controversial due to people's personal preferences 13:36:07 <Terkhen> Emmy: neither of those things would be a problem with new map array 13:36:09 <andythenorth> and just not being very necessary :P 13:36:24 <andythenorth> but necessity is not necessary :) 13:37:01 <Terkhen> most of the codechanges I'm referring to would not be a problem with compatibility or possible forum drama because of eliminating options 13:37:25 <Terkhen> multicore support, new map array 13:37:31 * Emmy wouldn't mind a new map array for purposes 13:37:42 <andythenorth> the forum should just automatically eliminate posts that are voted as high drama 13:37:51 <andythenorth> and any complaining about the deletion :P 13:37:53 <Emmy> curved tunnels, advanced bridge graphics... 13:37:53 <Terkhen> both of them should be invisible to players, but would open up the possibility for new features 13:38:49 <andythenorth> should newgrf do the calculation for when to show smoke? 13:38:57 <andythenorth> i.e. check vehicle acceleration etc? 13:39:03 <Terkhen> no idea :P 13:39:05 <andythenorth> Pikka: fancy writing your own smoke-generating algo? :P 13:39:11 <andythenorth> or should ottd do it? 13:39:31 <Emmy> give the option for it? 13:39:37 <andythenorth> fuck options :P 13:39:47 <Pikka> probably it can be done in grf 13:39:52 <Emmy> eg. give ottd a default. 13:40:01 <andythenorth> probably has to be in grf to get better control 13:40:03 <Pikka> I'm for doing everything in grf, but I know I'm not in the majority :P 13:40:08 <andythenorth> ships are the problem case :( 13:40:13 <andythenorth> otherwise ottd could do it fine 13:40:20 <andythenorth> I don't think much is gained by doing it in grf 13:40:25 <Kjetil> Let's just port the entire ottd engine to grf 13:40:36 <andythenorth> but ships should smoke constantly, not just when accelerating 13:40:51 <andythenorth> can't see that getting changed in ottd code 13:40:52 <Terkhen> from my profiling of the realistic acceleration for road vehicles patch, I saw that checking a condition for every vehicle in every tick may reduce overall performance in 10% in busy games 13:40:54 <Terkhen> which is huge 13:40:56 <Terkhen> :P 13:41:03 <andythenorth> currently all vehicle types use train smoke 13:41:04 <Kjetil> some ships have blacker smoke during acceleration 13:41:10 <andythenorth> details details 13:41:40 <Pikka> Terkhen: let's reduce the maximum map size to 512* :) 13:41:46 <andythenorth> Terkhen: smoke would have a similar performance cost I think :( 13:42:04 <Terkhen> Pikka: my only objection to that is "forum drama" :P 13:42:10 <Kjetil> just need some of that opencl support for openttd ? :P 13:42:11 <andythenorth> but could we fail the cb? 13:42:17 <andythenorth> or draw smoke only for vehicles on screen? 13:42:37 <andythenorth> hmm 13:42:47 <andythenorth> no, because scrolling the map would result in missing smoke 13:42:48 <Terkhen> I started playing with big maps, even huge 8192x8192 maps allowed only by patching 13:42:51 <Terkhen> but now... meh 13:42:53 <Emmy> why isn't ottd not drawing for things not on screen by default anyway? 13:42:58 <Terkhen> my max is 512x256 13:43:00 <Terkhen> Emmy: it is 13:43:11 <andythenorth> to some extent 13:43:28 <andythenorth> it doesn't know what's on screen until the graphics chain is completed 13:43:41 <andythenorth> unless I misunderstood 13:44:07 <andythenorth> so the graphics chain has to be run for every newgrf item 13:44:45 <drac_boy> I always use the same map size all the times .. and its the one ttdx uses anyway :) 13:45:16 <andythenorth> the smoke issue has 2 cases, which may be orthogonal 13:45:25 <Terkhen> IIRC the graphics chain must be run for every newgrf item because, given how the NewGRF specs work, you can't know if the graphics chain is doing "stuff" or not 13:45:32 <andythenorth> (1) ships barely show smoke, as due to the acceleration model used 13:45:59 <andythenorth> (2) can't control z or y position for smoke effect 13:46:16 <andythenorth> oh (3) can't have >1 smoke origin point per vehicle 13:46:36 <andythenorth> all 3 may be orthogonal 13:47:10 <andythenorth> a spec to solve all 3 might be too hard, patching for any 1 of them would be an improvement 13:48:25 <Terkhen> gah, I'm getting too used to coding on Java 13:53:59 <Kjetil> CollectionFactoryFactoryDriver ? 13:54:49 <Terkhen> those are not a problem :P 13:54:57 <Terkhen> my problem is coming back to c++ and seeing a "->" 13:55:11 <Kjetil> haha 13:55:36 <Pikka> andythenorth: outside the box solutions to 3 are 13:55:45 <Pikka> a) multi-part ships 13:55:58 <Pikka> b) 8-direction smoke sprites 13:56:34 <Emmy> andythenorth: How much of a performance increase would you get if you did a check if something was on-screen before the graphics chain? 13:57:52 <Pikka> can I get a "desync"? :) 13:58:15 <Pikka> what's on-screen for me isn't what's on-screen for you... 13:58:45 <Emmy> how do you mean? 13:58:55 <Kjetil> is that a real issue ? 13:59:21 <Pikka> depends what you mean by "the graphics chain" 13:59:22 *** Amis [~Amis@54009A1C.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Quit: *pop*] 13:59:46 <andythenorth> Pikka: multipart ships o_O 13:59:52 <andythenorth> imagine... 13:59:55 <Pikka> if you mean a whole action 2 chain that calculates whether or not the ship wants to emit smoke, then absolutely it's a real issue 14:00:20 <Pikka> yes andy 14:00:56 <andythenorth> a 1,000t ship could be 1,000 vehicles 14:00:59 <andythenorth> each of 1t 14:01:08 <andythenorth> all with auto-refit support :P 14:01:11 <Pikka> it probably wouldn't be, though :P 14:01:26 <Pikka> maybe 3 seperate holds? 14:01:49 <andythenorth> any reason why 3? 14:01:54 <andythenorth> other than it's the magic number 14:03:33 <Pikka> no, just an example 14:03:39 <Pikka> a more sensible example than 1000 :) 14:04:42 <andythenorth> ho ho 14:06:56 <Kjetil> everything is cargo. You can even start delivering boats ? :P 14:07:56 <andythenorth> we have a spec for that already 14:07:58 <andythenorth> frosch123 wrote it 14:27:26 <drac_boy> can you overlap articulated locomotive sprites especially if they're at different heights anyway? (like for the front bogie underneath a mallet that would swing out to the side on curves as an example) 14:27:50 <andythenorth> don't bother 14:28:36 <drac_boy> so it'll glitch? 14:28:53 <andythenorth> there's just no point 14:29:23 *** Devroush [~dennis@d5152695A.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:30:19 <andythenorth> even zoomed in, it's not worth trying to replicate the effect 14:30:30 <andythenorth> it's unnecessary detail 14:30:48 <andythenorth> and you'll find a lot of edge cases where it actually looks worse than the alternative method 14:30:52 <andythenorth> e.g. slopes 14:31:45 <andythenorth> hmm 14:35:51 <drac_boy> hm slopes...I forgot to account for it "flexing up the slope" 14:36:03 <drac_boy> yeah I can see why one single rigid sprite is better even if it overhangs ... thanks 14:37:47 <drac_boy> at least some things like garratts or two-body electric locomotives still can do with articulation to a degree 14:38:25 <peter1138> 3d models on the map! 14:40:17 <drac_boy> peter1138 I still kind of prefer the 8bit pixel look but as long as its up to the newgrf arthor rather the game to set the graphic level I don't mind 14:40:36 <drac_boy> (what I mean is the game doesn't care whether you use 2D 8bbp or 3D 32bbp sprites) 15:01:00 <peter1138> or 3d 8bpp or 2d 32bpp 15:01:44 <andythenorth> 3d 2d 15:01:52 <andythenorth> how about 4d? 15:02:20 <peter1138> but no, i meant 3d models on the map, not sprited 15:02:40 <peter1138> andy, yeah, thats called animation 15:07:30 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153EF4C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:14:18 <Flygon> Real men work with 4bpp 15:14:24 <Flygon> Because then we can port to Mega Drive and SNES :B 15:14:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24858 trunk/src/spritecache.cpp (2012-12-26 15:14:37 UTC) 15:14:45 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5404]: Make invalid sprite references to mapgen sprites behave the same as invalid references between recolour and real sprites. 15:16:01 <frosch123> Flygon: 2bpp 15:16:21 <frosch123> though i wonder why 4 colour systems always include stuff like cyan and magenta 15:17:35 <Flygon> I have no idea 15:17:41 <Flygon> It is highly questionable, I agree 15:18:05 <Flygon> What's really confusing, is how the Mega Drive renders colours 15:18:22 <Flygon> It uses an RGB system that... is non-standard, and also can display colours outside of it's master palette 15:18:29 <Flygon> Which sounds like it makes zero sense @_@ 15:19:43 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@57-248.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:15:18 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:20:26 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:20:52 <murr4y> dbg: [net] 'murray' made an error and has been disconnected. Reason: 'processing map took too long' 16:21:00 <murr4y> ^ can you extend the allowed time limit, or something? 16:22:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:22:56 <Terkhen> IIRC it is a setting configurable on the server 16:24:38 <murr4y> aha, thank you 16:45:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:48:42 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 16:49:03 <andythenorth> I have a crash 16:49:11 <andythenorth> but I changed newgrfs during game 16:49:13 <andythenorth> ages ago 16:49:56 <andythenorth> meh, bad wifi :( 16:49:59 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2002/ 16:50:25 <andythenorth> building a CHIPS station 16:50:53 <planetmaker> hm. That's the new assert as of today or yesterday. Wrong sprites accessed 16:51:19 * planetmaker looks up to verify 16:51:26 <andythenorth> it's happened twice, but I can't deterministically reproduce it 16:51:52 <planetmaker> you built head yourself? 16:51:58 <planetmaker> r24858? 16:51:58 <andythenorth> yup 16:52:02 <andythenorth> just had it a third time 16:52:12 <andythenorth> seems related to station building, but that might be coincidence 16:52:20 <andythenorth> r24848 16:52:24 <andythenorth> I'm 10 revs behind 16:52:37 <andythenorth> could just be because CHIPS is broken? 16:53:11 <planetmaker> ah... hm. try r24858 16:53:33 <andythenorth> k 16:54:39 <planetmaker> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/2c390e8e0c97 @ andythenorth 16:54:54 <planetmaker> thus there's a newgrf bug lurking somewhere 16:55:18 <andythenorth> having CHIPS known-broken might be masking other errors :P 16:55:27 <andythenorth> I'm tempted to blame it for all problems right now 16:55:57 <Pikka> andythenorth: just had a quick look at FISH2, not bad. :) Lack of reliability decay is an interesting choice. ;) 16:56:14 <andythenorth> hmm 16:56:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no amount of brokenness CHIPS may cause asserts in openttd 16:56:32 <andythenorth> probably just did that to try and clear the buy menu of old ship models quickly 16:57:07 <andythenorth> it's not reliable, sometimes there's a gap where a ship size is missing for a few years :P 16:57:09 <Pikka> lack of reliability decay = ships do not lose reliability between services 16:57:15 <Pikka> :P 16:57:17 <Pikka> yes 16:57:39 <Pikka> you've still got a fair few with the 1870 start date... 16:58:05 <andythenorth> maybe I could set reliability decay speed 16:58:09 <andythenorth> maybe I don't currently 16:58:15 <Pikka> you don't currently 16:58:22 <Pikka> maybe 16:59:04 <andythenorth> apparently not 16:59:09 <Pikka> and that default hovercraft is looking more and more out of place :) 16:59:10 <andythenorth> it will be whatever nml defaults to I guess 16:59:21 <andythenorth> dan was redrawing that hovercraft ;) 17:00:14 <andythenorth> there are a lot of ships in 1870 17:00:15 <andythenorth> :P 17:00:29 <Pikka> and I'm missing early passenger ships that aren't paddle steamers, and 19th century ships with sailing rigs, but I guess if I'm asking for them you'll tell me to draw them. :) 17:00:30 <andythenorth> no other vehicle type has to cover sizes from 4t-1000t :) 17:00:36 *** MinchinWeb [4720e2e3@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:00:43 <andythenorth> Pikka: I refer you to our canadian friend ;) 17:00:45 <andythenorth> or coxx 17:00:54 <Pikka> goodo :) 17:01:09 <andythenorth> they have sent numerous, beautifully drawn, half-finished passenger steamers, packet ships, cruise liners, paddle tugs, stern wheelers 17:01:19 <andythenorth> all of them either just 1 angle, or 8 unfinished angles :) 17:01:39 <andythenorth> Dan is planning "SailFISH" 17:01:44 <Pikka> code them as-is :D we can have the amazing sideways-travelling ships. 17:02:18 <MinchinWeb> I'm trying to get my AI to work, but I keep getting the error "Your script made an error: bitwise op between 'bool' and 'bool'" 17:02:27 <MinchinWeb> The line in question reads: "LastTile = AllTiles.top();" LastTile is an integer, AllTiles is an array 17:02:31 <MinchinWeb> suggestions? 17:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> Dan is planning "SailFISH" <-- please make them seriously smaller scale than the existing sailship grf 17:03:44 <andythenorth> they'd be FISH scale 17:03:53 <andythenorth> it's about 1px / 1m roughly 17:04:03 <andythenorth> not because scale matters, it just happens to be that way 17:04:16 <Pikka> 1px/1m 17:04:22 <Pikka> isn't that long vehicles scale? ;) 17:04:25 <andythenorth> dunno 17:04:28 <andythenorth> have a cookie http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/fish/push/r953/ 17:04:41 <andythenorth> sets reliability to decay to 20, default value 17:04:51 <andythenorth> I assume nml defaults it to 0, didn't check :P 17:06:26 <planetmaker> default for new vehicles and un-initialized properties is always 0. Both nfo and nml. 17:06:38 <planetmaker> defaults are only different for the existing default vehicles 17:06:55 <planetmaker> but that's not a property of the programming language. But of the game 17:07:03 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-111-70-16.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:07:04 <andythenorth> that's the answer there then :) 17:13:24 *** Emmy-Eviltwin [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:13:53 <frosch123> MinchinWeb: do you have some longer snipped of code? 17:13:56 *** bolli [~sam@31.185.192.179] has joined #openttd 17:14:19 <bolli> Aloha 17:18:54 <planetmaker> ahola 17:19:58 *** Emmy [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:36:39 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153EF4C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:42:36 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24859 trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp (2012-12-26 17:42:29 UTC) 17:42:37 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Make the dropdown handling of the adv. settings GUI more generic. 17:43:41 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24860 /trunk/src (3 files) (2012-12-26 17:43:35 UTC) 17:43:42 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Add SettingDesc::GetType(). 17:44:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24861 trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp (2012-12-26 17:44:42 UTC) 17:44:49 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Put all filters for settings into a single struct. 17:47:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24862 /trunk/src (6 files in 5 dirs) (2012-12-26 17:47:02 UTC) 17:47:10 <DorpsGek> -Add: Settings type filter to adv. settings GUI. 17:48:31 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24863 /trunk/src (31 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-26 17:48:25 UTC) 17:48:32 <DorpsGek> -Remove: Now redundant method to filter for non-local settings differing from default settings. 17:57:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:58:04 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:58:07 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:58:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:59:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24864 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2012-12-26 17:59:44 UTC) 17:59:51 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r24863): Update before running sed. 18:10:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:13:34 *** MinchinWeb [4720e2e3@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 18:17:55 *** Devroush [~dennis@d5152695A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:36:04 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@186.212.209.217] has joined #openttd 18:44:07 *** M1zera [~Miranda@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 18:45:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24865 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2012-12-26 18:45:24 UTC) 18:45:36 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:37 <DorpsGek> czech - 67 changes by Eskymak 18:45:38 <DorpsGek> finnish - 7 changes by jpx_ 18:45:39 <DorpsGek> german - 7 changes by planetmaker 18:45:40 <DorpsGek> spanish - 7 changes by Terkhen 18:56:42 *** Galant [5f5d6eb7@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:57:46 *** Galant [5f5d6eb7@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] 19:03:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:05:50 *** bolli [~sam@31.185.192.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:06:37 *** bolli [~sam@87.115.72.82] has joined #openttd 19:09:08 <andythenorth> is it bad that I just bulldoze rivers? 19:09:54 <andythenorth> they tend to get in the way 19:11:56 <planetmaker> everytime you do that a kitten dies. But they die anyway... 19:12:23 <frosch123> maybe bulldozing rivers should be forbidden, if there is no water connetion between the adjacent tiles anymore 19:12:34 <frosch123> same would hold for canals then 19:12:50 <frosch123> cannot remove canals if they connect rivers 19:12:57 <frosch123> problem is with lakes though :p 19:13:16 <planetmaker> that would make a problem... you couldn't remove canals really ;-) 19:13:44 <planetmaker> what's the lake problem with connectivity? 19:14:07 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 19:14:14 <frosch123> well, lakes are an endpoint 19:14:25 <frosch123> if you connect two lakes via canals, what's the end? 19:14:25 <andythenorth> I'm not sure it's much a thing to solve tbh 19:14:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: well, what imo needs changing is, that plain terraforming should not auto-kill rivers 19:14:56 <frosch123> like it does sea 19:15:08 <frosch123> you should explicitly have to bulldoze them 19:15:11 <andythenorth> so the tile re-floods? 19:15:22 * andythenorth tests 19:15:23 <andythenorth> oh I see 19:15:24 <frosch123> no, terraforming jsut fails 19:15:42 <andythenorth> build a culvet tile :P 19:15:46 <andythenorth> or a special class of bridge :P 19:19:21 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:19:37 <andythenorth> hmm 19:19:53 <andythenorth> local authority is forbidding me building airports even on tiles not part of the town 19:35:13 <frosch123> sue them! 19:35:34 <frosch123> why did noone ever suggest that on the forums? 19:35:49 <frosch123> there are tons of suggestions about share trading and economy 19:36:15 <frosch123> but no suggestions about sueing towns, industries, competitors, vehicle manufacturers, customers, ... 19:45:05 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:45:18 <Rubidium> frosch123: because there are no Americans on the forum? 19:48:52 <planetmaker> there actually are 19:51:24 <Rubidium> so far I never met one 19:52:46 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:58:37 <ccfreak2k> The openttd forum? 19:58:40 <frosch123> ah, i guess it does not offer a long gamepley 19:58:53 <frosch123> you just use your start money to patent the idea to transport cargo 20:07:11 <frosch123> oh, wait... you can then spend the rest of the game in court to figure out whether pax are cargo 20:12:48 <planetmaker> :D 20:30:26 *** bolli [~sam@87.115.72.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:55 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:59:53 <andythenorth> NewCourts 20:59:55 *** Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@189.58.30.220.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 21:01:43 <ccfreak2k> NuCourts 21:01:47 <ccfreak2k> there's two cases wrt. pax 21:02:02 <ccfreak2k> one is for tax reasons, the other case is to determine railroad right-of-way. 21:02:27 <ccfreak2k> I'm not even really sure what we're talking about. 21:02:27 <Pinkbeast> Pax clearly are cargo in vanilla OTTD given that they just get on the first train and go wherever you like. :-) 21:03:40 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:03:55 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip2.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 21:07:15 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@186.212.209.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:15:10 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:20:00 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 21:20:04 <drac_boy> hi 21:24:06 <peter1138> hi 21:25:25 <__ln__> how totally wrong is it to express e.g. 18:00 in english as "at eighteen oh-oh"? 21:28:17 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 21:32:31 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest2658 21:32:32 *** Guest2658 [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:36:37 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-100.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:40:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:44:44 <drac_boy> just wondering about it, how do people get these users.tt-forums.net/*/index.html websites/ 21:44:49 <drac_boy> websites?* 21:45:09 <frosch123> they ask orudge about one 21:45:34 <drac_boy> oh ok 21:45:58 <drac_boy> is the username manually assigned or it goes by forum username? 21:46:25 <frosch123> quite sure there is only one authentication system, so it would be the same user 21:46:55 <drac_boy> mm 21:46:56 <drac_boy> thanks 21:47:10 <drac_boy> might be a good place to host my project online later when I finally want to share the progress 21:47:41 <frosch123> if you are going for a foss license, you can also use the openttdcoop devzone 21:47:55 <frosch123> you also get a compilefarm and stuff there 21:48:03 <frosch123> issue trackers etc 21:48:11 <drac_boy> don't need that but thanks :-> 21:48:33 <frosch123> you won't accept bug reports? :p 21:50:34 <drac_boy> frosch is it also for non-openttd bugs too? 21:50:37 <drac_boy> ;) 21:51:01 <frosch123> what? 21:51:15 <drac_boy> heh sorry I think the humor got lost there 21:51:18 <drac_boy> I meant patch bugs 21:51:52 <frosch123> oh, if you need some, i can file you a dozen 21:52:17 <planetmaker> drac_boy: the devzone offers each project its own issue tracker. So it's an issue tracker only for your bugs. 21:52:46 <Supercheese> Devzone would be nice if you are planning on making a largish GRF 21:52:48 <planetmaker> or the one of your particular project 21:52:55 <Rubidium> isn't there already a patch tracker? 21:53:12 <planetmaker> "tracker" as in unmaintained wiki page? 21:53:38 <frosch123> planetmaker: it was, o* ported it to a real tracker, and got flamed :p 21:54:11 <drac_boy> Rubidium I could like to know that answer too 21:54:14 <planetmaker> he :D 21:54:16 <frosch123> the rest was non-dev forum guys discussing whether all bugs should just be closed as not fixable (since there were no devs), or something like that 21:54:37 <planetmaker> I think I recall 21:54:54 <frosch123> something along the line of "we want a stable", so now just declare it bug-free :p 21:55:55 <frosch123> drac_boy: http://projects.tt-forums.net/projects/ttdpatch/issues 22:01:25 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn60-236.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:02:33 <drac_boy> heh, if there was a tab for grfs too that may had been nice 22:04:21 <drac_boy> but anyway mmm I'll see when and if I want to ask about that user website account thing 22:18:39 <peter1138> *may have 22:19:49 <Wolf01> 'night 22:19:52 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:26:05 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@57-248.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:34:19 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn60-236.yok.fi] has joined #openttd 22:47:11 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:49:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1901C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:06:40 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:06:49 <frosch123> night 23:06:53 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe5ba.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:59 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-010-171.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 23:13:38 <Supercheese> "So that means you volunteer, you grabbed the code and started find your way around there and to make improvements and bug fixes already? Great!" "no. i didnt even work on this set. im just a spectator" 23:13:44 <Supercheese> I think sarcasm is lost on some people 23:13:47 <drac_boy> heh 23:27:35 *** MinchinWeb [4720e2e3@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 23:46:05 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@75.114.201.249] has joined #openttd 23:46:10 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@75.114.201.249] has quit []