Log for #openttd on 26th December 2012:
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01:45:10  <drac_boy> mmm
01:45:18  * drac_boy still thinks theres a few too many similar locomotives
01:47:12  <drac_boy> at least deciding on the first locomotive being a non-superheated 0-4-0 with small tires wasn't hard
01:47:21  <drac_boy> heh
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01:56:17  <drac_boy> don't know if theres anyone that might know but .. whats probably the earliest diesel locomotive (whether its electric transmission or not) for non-yard duty basically?
01:56:40  <drac_boy> I'm thinking its probably the 1930s but I don't know (and finding things in other langauges isn't my best thing neither)
02:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: the first were diesel railcars, i presume
02:02:20  <Eddi|zuHause> the first german stand-alone diesel engine was the V140
02:02:54  <Eddi|zuHause> then there was the V188 and the V36 [war-time engines]
02:03:15  <drac_boy> 1935, seem like I had been guessing pretty close. thanks for that
02:03:18  <Eddi|zuHause> and post-war there was the V200
02:03:24  <drac_boy> heh V200....
02:03:29  * drac_boy likes these >_<
02:04:13  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: i think diesel railcars were around mid-1920s
02:04:27  <drac_boy> V36 I don't know what to say about it but I have seen it quite a number of times on model layouts based after typical branch lines in germany.  especially hauling the thunderbox coaches (so-called for rough ride as far as I have read)
02:04:33  <Eddi|zuHause> or benzol
02:06:10  <drac_boy> and (I had to check to be sure) a few of the V36 also had that 'train observation' dome on their cab roof but I've never seen anyone modifying a model to have one yet
02:06:30  <drac_boy> it looks a little odd maybe but...its at least a bit streamlined rather than just a chunky box
02:06:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i have heard about that as well
02:12:22  <drac_boy> about railcars if it was not for the price I would have had been owning a marklin VT11.5 already but heh I'll rather not atm :-p
02:12:52  <drac_boy> trainsets aren't exactly the best thing when you're on a short budget
02:13:13  <drac_boy> at least I can build as many as I want to in dbsetxl grf...its only a computer game :)
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03:52:12  <Eddi|zuHause> top
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04:10:43  <Pikka> shh
04:13:33  <Flygon> And you thought LAX was bad
04:19:35  <Flygon> It explains why China are building HSR so insanely agressively, though
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06:18:50  <Pikka> hooray
06:19:18  <Pikka> thanks to the new buy menu sprite resizing, I have to add 256 var2 checks and 256 new sprite sets to ukrs2...
06:19:45  <Pikka> and a dozen or so to the addon set
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06:22:41  <Pikka> or do I?  that's odd...
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06:22:54  <Supercheese>  ?
06:23:50  <Pikka> despite changing the sprite offsets for 1.3.0, they still look right in 1.2.3
06:24:15  <Pikka> what sorcery is this
06:27:10  <Pikka> well, I shan't complain
06:37:33  <Flygon> I don't think this is how you're suppose to triple head... :p
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07:49:31  <Flygon> Good thing you don't need to manage announcements via OpenTTD @_@
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09:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: the sprite is always clamped to the left border of the window
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09:55:15  <Amis> Hallo! Is it possible to move the C:\Users\...\Documents\OpenTTD folder somewhere else?
09:55:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
09:55:56  <Amis> There's a setting for it somewhere?
09:56:16  <Eddi|zuHause> move it to somewhere, and set the "working directory" to that place in the link
10:02:19  <Amis> Ahh, yay, thanks
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10:37:15  <Terkhen> good morning
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11:10:03  * Pikka returns, cool Eddi|zuHause, that's that problem avoided then
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11:13:39  <andythenorth> Pikka: bonjour
11:13:50  <Pikka> bongiorno
11:14:03  <andythenorth> playing a UKRS 2 + blah game
11:14:09  <andythenorth> I turned on all the blah
11:14:10  <andythenorth> ;)
11:14:21  <andythenorth> that's a lot of engines to choose from :)
11:14:27  <Pikka> it is
11:14:45  <Pikka> I added an early retirement de-clutter parameter, it helps
11:15:06  <andythenorth> is it intentionally evil that I have fast freight wagons, but they're restricted by need for brake van?
11:15:13  <Pikka> do you?
11:15:18  <Pikka> which ones?
11:17:04  <Pikka> hmm
11:17:11  <andythenorth> welded tank wagon
11:17:26  <andythenorth> cartic
11:17:39  <Pikka> welded tank wagon is only 10mph over
11:17:45  <Pikka> cartic should probably be fixed, good point
11:17:46  <andythenorth> speedlink vans
11:17:59  <andythenorth> it's not a big deal, just wondered if it was intended
11:19:34  <Pikka> in the case of the tank wagon, yes
11:19:57  <Pikka> hmm
11:20:05  <Pikka> did you try cartic without the brake van? ;)
11:20:23  <andythenorth> nope, assumed there was no speed gain :P
11:20:29  <andythenorth> is it special cased?
11:20:56  <Pikka> there's no caboose check for the cartic that I can see, so it should run without a brakevan even before 75
11:21:05  <Pikka> after 75, everything can run without a brakevan
11:21:30  <andythenorth> next game I might play with fewer '+' stuff :)
11:21:39  <andythenorth> it's pretty good though, is it done yet?
11:22:28  <Pikka> the main set is done, for a given value of done... just bug fix releases now.  The + set will keep being added to as long as people want to keep drawing it.
11:23:19  <andythenorth> the only feedback I have is I could have used a type 4 earlier in this game
11:24:00  <Pikka> can you suggest a type 4 earlier than the Peak and the 47?
11:25:27  <andythenorth> probly not a real one :P
11:25:47  <Pikka> 9Fs 4 lyfe then :P
11:28:18  <Pikka> perhaps the cartic and other wagons that don't require a brakevan should have some hint text pre-'75...
11:29:11  <Pikka> or perhaps I'll let people work it out for themselves ;)
11:29:37  <Pikka> your bigger buy menu sprites patch makes the buy menu so much longer btw andy
11:29:53  <Pikka> seems to add about 2px padding above and below each vehicle
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11:30:06  <drac_boy> hi
11:30:56  <Pikka> andy:  what about the Leader, that's kinda like a Type 4? :P
11:31:50  <michi_cc> Pikka: It scales for oversize in both directions. Crop your extra blue :)
11:32:01  <michi_cc> (Or draw smaller.)
11:32:32  <Pikka> the blue's cropped by grfcodec, natch
11:32:56  <Pikka> the sprites are, for the most part, 1px shorter vertically than the default vehicles :)
11:33:45  <Pikka> but no, I see that the default vehicles do not have the extra
11:33:52  <Pikka> so I guess it's my fault ;)
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11:35:50  <drac_boy> you adding some new locomotives pikka?
11:36:10  <Pikka> only if people are drawing them
11:36:23  <drac_boy> ah
11:36:24  <Pikka> should have another release in the next few days, but it's mainly bugfixes
11:36:42  <drac_boy> is ireland included or thats a bit too different country?
11:37:10  <Pikka> not only a different country but a different gauge
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11:42:07  <drac_boy> hmm fair enough, w as just thinking of their one unusual locomotive experinment but oh well :)
11:43:35  <Pikka> the addon set has the Leader, doesn't need the Turf Burner as well :)
11:44:08  <andythenorth> I assumed the leader was rubbish :P
11:44:36  <andythenorth> hmm
11:44:37  <andythenorth> GT3
11:44:44  <Pikka> GT3 is the best
11:44:50  <Pikka> a little expensive :)
11:44:53  <andythenorth> I've been ignoring all the weird addon prototypes :P
11:44:55  <drac_boy> heh nice of you to know that one too and pikka the real reason I bought it up tho was that compared to the Leader the Turf at least was put into service for a while with no complaining from politics
11:45:07  <Pikka> also this is embarrassing, looks like I wasn't cropping sprites after all.  I hope there wasn't a reason for that...
11:47:57  <Pikka> didn't seem to help much...
11:56:00  <Pikka> Oh well, ain't bovvered.  Ain't bovvered enough, anyway.  Perhaps someone else will find the cause for me later. :)
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11:56:22  <Wolf01> hello
11:57:48  <drac_boy> hi Wolf01
11:57:56  <drac_boy> had enough christmas drinking? :) heh
11:59:02  <andythenorth> frosch123: SV with goal of 17 industries is...interesting
11:59:17  <Wolf01> I can't drink :(
11:59:20  <andythenorth> this town is all brewery o_O
11:59:22  <drac_boy> oh heh ok
11:59:31  <drac_boy> how're you still Wolf01?
11:59:50  <frosch123> andythenorth: yay :)
12:00:06  <Wolf01> I had enough of eating
12:01:35  <drac_boy> what doing now then Wolf01?
12:01:48  <Wolf01> digesting 4 sheeps and 2 hares
12:02:20  <drac_boy> 0-o
12:02:51  <andythenorth> frosch123: just another 8 to build (some offscreen)
12:02:53  <andythenorth> :P
12:03:06  <andythenorth> I only have 10% of the total transport goal though :(
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12:05:04  <nerelo>
12:05:18  <Pikka> michi_cc, just to clarify: if the grey cell, not including the lines, is 18px high, does that mean I have an 18px high sprite somewhere?
12:05:22  <frosch123> @kban nerelo
12:05:23  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
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12:06:27  <Pikka> andythenorth: I expect those are some very happy pigs.
12:06:38  <Pikka> and/or cows
12:07:15  <michi_cc> Pikka: Height of the lines is "return max<uint>(FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL + WD_MATRIX_TOP + WD_MATRIX_BOTTOM, GetVehicleImageCellSize(type, EIT_PURCHASE).height);", i.e. the bigger value of the text height or the max purchase sprite height of all rail vehicles (for all railtypes).
12:07:40  <Pikka> hmm
12:07:52  <Pikka> the text is just normal text, and I can't find an 18px high sprite anywhere
12:08:31  <Pikka> I tried adjusting the offsets for my 1px dummy second head sprites, thinking that might be the problem, but it didn't make any difference.
12:08:43  <andythenorth> does it fart about with any adjustments?
12:08:51  * andythenorth looks in the spec for those weird train adjustments
12:08:55  <Pikka> the text?  no, andy.
12:10:37  <andythenorth>
12:10:38  <andythenorth> ?
12:10:54  <andythenorth> probably a rabbit hole
12:11:03  <murr4y> hi, how do i make my server autopause when 0 clients are connected?
12:12:11  <Pikka> min_active_clients , murr4y
12:12:16  <Pikka>
12:12:31  <murr4y> aha, thank you
12:12:35  <murr4y> i'll bookmark that page :)
12:13:28  <Pikka> set to 02, andythenorth
12:13:32  <Pikka> like every other trainset ever
12:13:34  <frosch123> Pikka: the purchase list considers all vehicle sprites, also those which are not yet/anymore available for purchae
12:13:35  <andythenorth> :P
12:13:47  <frosch123> so, enable "vehicle never expire" and set year to 3000 :)
12:13:47  <andythenorth> does it consider ships too?
12:14:01  <Pikka> I did, frosch123
12:14:20  <Pikka> and I searched the nfo for 18px high sprites for the purchase menu, and there aren't any
12:14:50  <Pikka> the only 18px high sprites are the | views of certain short-length wagons.
12:16:48  <frosch123> hmm, i guess ottd should only consider the engines available in the climate :p
12:17:46  <Pikka> hm
12:19:28  <Pikka> that could be it...
12:19:32  <Pikka> let me try something
12:19:46  <frosch123> it is that for sure :p
12:19:49  <drac_boy> not to take this offtopic but any of you think a 1920s electric locomotive should be C or 1'C1' wheel arrangement? its more or less a mixed duty locomotive with a bit of speed
12:20:25  <frosch123> <- that should suffice
12:20:33  <Pikka> let your imagination run wild, drac_boy
12:20:51  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: the ones i know are 1'C2'
12:21:10  <Eddi|zuHause> or (1'B)(B1')
12:21:17  <Pikka> yep, there we go
12:21:49  <Pikka> if I set my "housecleaning" to set climate of all IDs to 07 instead of 06, I get three question marks in the buylist
12:21:55  <Pikka> three 18px tall question marks :)
12:22:04  <Flygon> Ah, drac_boy, I was looking for you earlier, but I forgot what for now
12:22:05  <Pikka> *instead of 00
12:22:10  <drac_boy> mm so I should have nondrive axles too then
12:22:40  <Pikka> 20px, but whatever :]
12:23:36  <Pikka> this may have something to do with me eating the sprites for those vehicles for my recolour maps, as I was told off for doing earlier today. :P
12:24:10  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24854 trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp (2012-12-26 12:24:03 UTC)
12:24:11  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r24839): Only consider vehicles available in the climate for purchase/depot cell size.
12:24:16  <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause funny thing to mention that, when I was looking up the V140 I found one site with a few other locomotives and one was the E16 aka BR116 .. and it pretty much looks like a (1'B)(B1')
12:24:39  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: no, that's actually a 1'Do1'
12:24:41  <drac_boy> or is it Bo and not B? the picture wasn't too clear to tell
12:24:49  * Pikka gives frosch123 christmas candy
12:24:53  <drac_boy> oh? the seperated set of drivers fooled me I guess :-s
12:25:10  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: the (1'B)(B1') is the E77
12:25:29  <drac_boy> hi flygon? :P
12:25:32  <drac_boy> how're you?
12:26:30  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: which dates back to pre-WWI plans but was delayed due to the war, and thus was already outdated when it was built
12:26:36  <Flygon> I'm okay
12:26:42  <Flygon> You?
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12:28:11  <andythenorth> Pikka: anyone offered to draw lowmac / well wagons?
12:28:30  <Pikka> I had intended them for the original set but never got around to them, andy
12:28:36  <andythenorth> probably a bit slow :P
12:28:54  <Pikka> they don't have to be prototypical :P
12:29:06  <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause outdated sounds like the Alco 'Black' carbody diesel they built to test after WWII .. it was outdated right off the starting line ... eventually got sidelined in a short time
12:29:21  <drac_boy> at least the Alco PA that followed was a better seller
12:29:59  <Pikka> Andy: I had 1920 intro year, 50mph, capacity 14
12:30:00  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: well mostly, it still was rod-driven at a time the E16 was already single-driven [based on a swiss engine]
12:30:00  <drac_boy> doing ok flygon and I can't remember what I told you yesterday neither so .. oh well guess we'll have to find something new to talk about ;)
12:30:14  <Flygon> Yay
12:30:16  <Flygon> :p
12:30:24  <Flygon> Oh
12:30:26  <Flygon> I remembered now
12:30:42  <Flygon> A Vicrail set would be reeeeaaaaaaaallly boring between 1910 to 2004
12:30:49  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: more easily seen if you compare the prussian E06 to the bavarian E16, which basically are for the same purpose [express trains]
12:30:49  <drac_boy> heh heh
12:31:01  <Flygon> Trains reached 115km/h by 1915
12:31:06  <Flygon> And 140km/h by 1935
12:31:21  <Flygon> ...they broke 160km/h in 1987 >_>
12:31:53  <drac_boy> flygon its a matter of which country and which technology
12:32:12  <Flygon> Australia, Victoria :P
12:32:40  <andythenorth> hmm
12:32:47  <Eddi|zuHause> the E06 was an improvement over the pre-war E01, but it didn't really include many [potentially high-risk] technology improvements
12:32:47  <andythenorth> Pikka: comtic?
12:33:02  <drac_boy> I've found matters where cape gauge was already doing 100kph even for most freight wagons by the 1960's ... but go to a different country and their metre gauge only has 50-70kph freights and no more than 80kph on passengers even although they seem to be still using just as much foreign builder mix
12:33:04  <andythenorth>
12:33:17  <drac_boy> so yeah flygon sometimes comparing different railroads can be rather amusing
12:33:31  <Eddi|zuHause> the bavarians didn't have a pre-war express engine, thus they copied a swiss design for their E16
12:33:34  <Pikka> pain to do loads, andy
12:33:50  <Pikka> but if you want to have a go, they'd be most welcome I'm sure :P
12:33:55  <Flygon> Was it the conditions of the tracks? Or the laws in place?
12:33:56  <Eddi|zuHause> which paved the way for the later very popular 1'Do1' wheel arrangement
12:34:11  <Eddi|zuHause> while the E06 was basically a dead-end, technology and design-wise
12:34:28  <drac_boy> flygon neither ... both were well kept tracks ... and both sometimes ironically used the exact same builders (SLM there and SLM over there)
12:34:31  <drac_boy>
12:35:00  <Flygon> eg. Australia did get overpowered enough locomotives by the 1970s to allow for 200km/h+ operation... but were regeared lower for maintaince and acceleration reasons, because they'd never break 130km/h anyway
12:35:02  <Flygon> Ah
12:35:10  <Pikka> I suppose I'd have to do my mini-scale trucks for the loads, eh?
12:35:11  <Flygon> Perhaps the country's laws?
12:35:41  <Flygon> eg. how the TGV can't legally go over 115km/h in Australia, barring special circumstances
12:36:11  <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause it could be just me but sometimes I never understood why certain electric locomotives with long chassis seem to always want to put at least two or more traction motors under the extreme end of the open platforms where theres little weight to be had for tractive
12:36:24  <drac_boy> let me find a photo of one just in case...
12:37:23  <Eddi|zuHause> after the E16, the E17, E18 and E19 used the 1'Do1' design
12:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> post-WWII the Bo'Bo' design took over
12:38:05  <Eddi|zuHause> which was first applied in the pre-WWII E44
12:38:40  <andythenorth> Pikka: you would need mini scale yes :P
12:38:46  <andythenorth> but you're doing a truck set, right?
12:38:48  <Eddi|zuHause> (with the exception of a very early bavarian engine, which also happened to have Bo'Bo')
12:38:51  <michi_cc> frosch123: for FS#5405?
12:38:59  <Pikka> for a given value of "doing"
12:39:03  <Pikka> I drew one bus about a year ago
12:39:45  <Pikka> everyone's fixing my bugs tonight :)
12:39:51  <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to HOVS, actually?
12:40:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i've got a "secret" version from about 5 years ago
12:40:19  <Pikka> that was as far as it got 5 years ago
12:40:34  <Pikka> I would like to do a new version, smaller scaled
12:40:40  <Pikka> I've done the planning and drawn one bus :)
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12:44:47  <drac_boy> sorry not sure where the picture I was thinking of is so I had to find something a bit close although not the one I had in mind...
12:45:26  <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r24855 trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp (2012-12-26 12:45:19 UTC)
12:45:27  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5405]: Don't send aircraft to depots that are out of range of the next destination.
12:45:36  <drac_boy> think of something like that but with a shorter box length .. and drive axles replacing the two nondrive guide axles.  thats what I meant, can't be that good on traction in such position with little weight to bear onto them
12:46:21  <Terkhen> oooh, nice fixes
12:46:45  <Pikka> I set 'em up, he knocks 'em down
12:47:14  <andythenorth> setup a spec for newgrf smoke?
12:47:49  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: never seen such a design
12:47:53  <Pikka> hehehe...
12:48:03  <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause yeah there were only a few of them as far as I had noticed
12:48:03  <Pikka> why not roadtypes while we're at it?
12:48:16  <andythenorth> meh to roadtypes :P
12:48:22  <andythenorth> I think smoke is easy
12:48:37  <andythenorth> unless it turns into a full spec for arbitrary newgrf effect vehicles :(
12:48:43  <andythenorth> which seems totally overkill to me
12:48:57  <Pikka> contrails!
12:48:58  <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause mind you one of the few main reasons usa had the 'famous' GG1 was because PRR needed some electric locomotives but did not like how the usual (such as ones like that photo there) electric boxes had very little cab protection in road crossing accidents
12:49:05  <andythenorth> Pikka: keep cargo in them?
12:49:09  <Pikka> yes
12:49:10  <drac_boy> so a middle cab was needed .. and add some sculpturing to it .. there's your GG1
12:49:24  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: yes, i heard about that
12:49:35  <drac_boy> considering that the GG1 eventually were scheduled to 100mph .. I wouldn't be too surprised with that cab position thing :)
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12:50:15  <andythenorth> Pikka: do you have any real cases for specifying your own smoke / effect sprites?
12:50:20  <drac_boy> andythenorth actually if you meant a smoke newgrf as in "what kind of smoke and how much of it" I could maybe like it
12:50:21  <andythenorth> rather than using the ones provided?
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12:50:44  <Pikka> not really.. truck exhaust?
12:50:49  <drac_boy> it would be a good way to finally differ eg a small white plume from a 400hp diesel shunter from the thick black smoke of a 3000hp heavy diesel locomotive :)
12:50:56  <andythenorth> diesel smoke works ok for trucks
12:50:59  <andythenorth> HEQS uses it
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12:51:06  <Pikka> probably
12:51:13  <Pikka> well, ships then, certainly
12:51:18  <Pikka> multiple funnels?
12:51:23  <Pikka> wakes? :P
12:51:34  <andythenorth> wakes can be done with animated water cycle
12:51:40  <drac_boy> pikka...multiple funnels would work nicely for steam liners .. they often had more than one funnel damn it :)
12:51:41  <andythenorth> multiple funnels is the killer app :P
12:51:46  <Pikka> aircraft could have exhaust from multiple engines...
12:52:36  <Pikka> what about a bus at a bus stop shooting passenger "smoke" out the side, ehehe...
12:52:57  <Pikka> but now we're getting into general particle effects, which you didn't want to ;)
12:53:49  <andythenorth> ho ho
12:54:09  <andythenorth> I've tried to spec it a few times :)
12:54:30  <andythenorth> but every time it gets mired in "you don't know what other authors want in future" :)
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12:57:06  <Pikka> let's get newgrf(air)ports working, yeah!
12:57:20  <Pikka> new year's resolution :P
12:57:24  <Terkhen> :)
12:57:26  <andythenorth> he :)
12:57:50  <Terkhen> I'm already failing my resolution of finishing the scenario format this year :P
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12:58:04  <andythenorth> new airports \o/
12:58:04  <Pikka> eh, you've got a couple of days
12:58:10  <Terkhen> I've done a few more patches already on these holidays though
12:58:15  <andythenorth> do I have to build airports tile-by-tile?
12:58:15  <Terkhen> about 20 missing :P
12:58:16  <Pikka> new sea ports, andy
12:58:36  <Emmy> Something tells me a lot in OTTD's current development gets mired in status quo itching, compatibility angst and fear of future desires.
12:59:18  <andythenorth> yeah
12:59:22  <andythenorth> it's software
13:00:39  <Terkhen> the words you use in that sentence put those considerations in a bad light, but you cannot make good software without them
13:00:53  <andythenorth> you can make PHP
13:01:12  <Terkhen> throwing those considerations behind and just moving forward without taking them into account may work in small teams (better in teams of one)
13:01:15  <andythenorth> and then you can make most of the internet with PHP
13:01:15  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24856 trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp (2012-12-26 13:01:09 UTC)
13:01:16  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5406]: Don't let UFOs and coal mines destroy depots.
13:01:25  <Emmy> Terkhen: yes, I am fully aware, but there's also such thing as overdoing it
13:01:31  <andythenorth> you can make Dwarf Fortress
13:01:34  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24857 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2012-12-26 13:01:28 UTC)
13:01:35  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Don't let UFOs and coal mines clear water.
13:01:40  <Terkhen> yep, we could make DF :P
13:01:44  <Terkhen> Emmy: what would you do instead?
13:04:52  <Emmy> well, there's not much to do differently except dare to make choices.
13:05:56  <Terkhen> deciding to not include something until it is ready and up to trunk standards is a choice... can you give me a specific example?
13:06:11  <andythenorth> afaik, there aren't many (any?) finished working patches that aren't included due to angst
13:06:26  <drac_boy> where's bridges being able to cross bridges? :)
13:06:28  <drac_boy> heh heh
13:06:32  <andythenorth> don't confuse the noise from people who can't / don't / won't code
13:06:46  <Emmy> cargodist?
13:07:02  <andythenorth> there is a crapload of noisy rubbish around suggestions and wishes, but all from people who only make noise, not code
13:07:02  <Emmy> new newgrf specs which Ive seen quite a bit of discussion about
13:07:10  <Emmy> new airports!
13:07:33  <andythenorth> airports is the only example I know of where there was a big hoo-ha and flouncy drama
13:07:46  <Terkhen> drac_boy: to my knowledge, not coded at all
13:07:54  <andythenorth> new airports?
13:08:06  <Terkhen> no, that sentence talks about the bridge thing
13:08:20  <andythenorth> oh the bridge thing is a load of crap anyway
13:08:32  <andythenorth> bridges can cross bridges
13:08:34  <andythenorth> want a screeny?
13:08:47  <Terkhen> <--- current state of the most modern implementation of "new airports", not ready as decided by the author himself
13:09:04  <Terkhen> I don't know what the new newgrf specs are supposed to be, though
13:09:26  <andythenorth> I've played a test game with new airports in
13:09:35  <andythenorth> routing helicopters to wind turbines :P
13:09:52  <peter1138> i wrote newgrf bridges once
13:09:59  <andythenorth>
13:10:04  <peter1138> act 1/2/3 style
13:10:36  <andythenorth> diagonals?
13:10:59  <drac_boy> andythenorth damn where did you create that screenshot from? :P
13:11:04  <andythenorth> in my game
13:11:06  <andythenorth> using ottd
13:11:29  <drac_boy> which version?
13:11:33  <andythenorth> latest
13:11:37  <andythenorth> o_O
13:11:50  <andythenorth> bridges over stations you'll never get
13:12:43  <peter1138> i wrote that once too
13:13:04  <andythenorth> did you make all station newgrf authors set a correct building height? :)
13:13:13  <Eddi|zuHause> bridges over road stations would be really useful
13:13:16  <Emmy> you can build bridges over bridge bases, but not bridges themselves.
13:13:31  <peter1138> no but it was a property
13:14:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Emmy: the code actually supports that, but it was disabled because we don't have graphics for it
13:14:36  <andythenorth> Emmy: ho ho, you're right
13:14:38  <drac_boy> andythenorth hmm...that would be nice in multiplayer where you are crowded for land yet another company has a bridge in front of where you want to bridge badly
13:14:40  <andythenorth> I never found that case
13:14:47  <drac_boy> remind me to check next time
13:14:59  <andythenorth> I got lucky with every bridge I've bridged :)
13:15:08  <Emmy> Eddi|zuHause: how so no graphics?
13:15:29  <Eddi|zuHause> tall bridges like the cantilever crossing each other
13:15:51  <Emmy> oh, right.
13:15:53  <andythenorth> would look a bit wrong
13:16:47  <Emmy> as wrong as some bridges crossing diagonal track, I suppose.
13:16:59  <andythenorth> hmm
13:17:08  * andythenorth tries to write a newgrf smoke / effects spec
13:18:24  <andythenorth> don't really know what's required
13:19:21  <Emmy> this is coming from someone who can't code, but you know what would be nice?
13:19:25  <andythenorth> what do the rest of you need?
13:19:39  <drac_boy> emmy why not? diagonal tracks exists for a reason
13:20:02  <Emmy> tunnels that can start from flat ground like bridges (dig down like bridges ramp up)
13:20:33  <Eddi|zuHause> did someone actually code this, or was this just a mockup?
13:20:44  <Emmy> what, Eddi|zuHause?
13:20:55  <Eddi|zuHause> the tunnels thing, i've seen it before
13:21:04  <andythenorth> chunnel?
13:21:15  <andythenorth> there was a patch of some kind
13:22:17  <Eddi|zuHause> no, that was different
13:22:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Emmy: thing is, you need to give up the auto-detecting of the other tunnel end, and switch to drag-building like bridges, otherwise it should be fairly simple to do code-wise
13:23:14  <andythenorth> curved tunnels :P
13:23:19  <Emmy> yeah, that's a thing I want anyway
13:23:39  <Flygon> Curved tunnels would be sex
13:23:45  <andythenorth> no
13:23:49  <Flygon> Or darn close to it
13:23:50  <andythenorth> it would just be a thing in a game
13:23:56  <andythenorth> they're really quite different
13:24:04  <Emmy> silly andy.
13:24:09  <Flygon> ...I just realized how my previous statement could be misinterpereted
13:24:17  <Flygon> Someone whack me with an anvil please
13:24:43  * Emmy offers an acme mail-order 100kg anvil.
13:25:13  <andythenorth> so is the cb10 route rejected as a spec for newgrf effect control?
13:25:33  <Flygon> Emmy: Emperium Anvil!
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13:26:14  <murr4y> why can't i change currency to EUR in a network game?
13:26:23  <murr4y> all other currencies are available
13:26:46  <Kjetil> Because EU is not a network game. Everything is controlled by illuminati
13:26:57  <Terkhen> IIRC you cannot change to EUR if your current currency is programmed to switch to EUR at a given date
13:27:03  <Terkhen> I don't know the reason for not allowing it, though
13:27:49  <murr4y> aha
13:28:52  <Kjetil> Probably because EUR didn't exist before the end of the 1990s ?
13:30:58  <murr4y> but the guy i'm playing with says he has EUR active
13:31:51  <drac_boy> curved tunnels reminds me of simutrans, and how about underground stations right underneath the city .. instead of having to destroy buildings or use "catchment jumping" bus station tiles ;)
13:32:11  <drac_boy> heh meh I know the game codes are so different but simutrans had a lot more things realistic about its constructions :-s
13:33:00  <Terkhen> you new NewMapArray :P
13:33:04  <Terkhen> need*
13:33:38  <drac_boy> yeah thats the problem...too much work I imagine :)
13:34:32  <Terkhen> nah, it's just that most of the big features are coded by huge codechanges, and huge codechanges are complicated, long and tedious
13:34:50  * Terkhen does not remember if there are any attempts to improve the map array going on
13:35:15  <andythenorth> there was a mutliple map layers thing
13:35:47  <Emmy> not to mention a compatibility challenge and potentially controversial due to people's personal preferences
13:36:07  <Terkhen> Emmy: neither of those things would be a problem with new map array
13:36:09  <andythenorth> and just not being very necessary :P
13:36:24  <andythenorth> but necessity is not necessary :)
13:37:01  <Terkhen> most of the codechanges I'm referring to would not be a problem with compatibility or possible forum drama because of eliminating options
13:37:25  <Terkhen> multicore support, new map array
13:37:31  * Emmy wouldn't mind a new map array for purposes
13:37:42  <andythenorth> the forum should just automatically eliminate posts that are voted as high drama
13:37:51  <andythenorth> and any complaining about the deletion :P
13:37:53  <Emmy> curved tunnels, advanced bridge graphics...
13:37:53  <Terkhen> both of them should be invisible to players, but would open up the possibility for new features
13:38:49  <andythenorth> should newgrf do the calculation for when to show smoke?
13:38:57  <andythenorth> i.e. check vehicle acceleration etc?
13:39:03  <Terkhen> no idea :P
13:39:05  <andythenorth> Pikka: fancy writing your own smoke-generating algo? :P
13:39:11  <andythenorth> or should ottd do it?
13:39:31  <Emmy> give the option for it?
13:39:37  <andythenorth> fuck options :P
13:39:47  <Pikka> probably it can be done in grf
13:39:52  <Emmy> eg. give ottd a default.
13:40:01  <andythenorth> probably has to be in grf to get better control
13:40:03  <Pikka> I'm for doing everything in grf, but I know I'm not in the majority :P
13:40:08  <andythenorth> ships are the problem case :(
13:40:13  <andythenorth> otherwise ottd could do it fine
13:40:20  <andythenorth> I don't think much is gained by doing it in grf
13:40:25  <Kjetil> Let's just port the entire ottd engine to grf
13:40:36  <andythenorth> but ships should smoke constantly, not just when accelerating
13:40:51  <andythenorth> can't see that getting changed in ottd code
13:40:52  <Terkhen> from my profiling of the realistic acceleration for road vehicles patch, I saw that checking a condition for every vehicle in every tick may reduce overall performance in 10% in busy games
13:40:54  <Terkhen> which is huge
13:40:56  <Terkhen> :P
13:41:03  <andythenorth> currently all vehicle types use train smoke
13:41:04  <Kjetil> some ships have blacker smoke during acceleration
13:41:10  <andythenorth> details details
13:41:40  <Pikka> Terkhen: let's reduce the maximum map size to 512* :)
13:41:46  <andythenorth> Terkhen: smoke would have a similar performance cost I think :(
13:42:04  <Terkhen> Pikka: my only objection to that is "forum drama" :P
13:42:10  <Kjetil> just need some of that opencl support for openttd ? :P
13:42:11  <andythenorth> but could we fail the cb?
13:42:17  <andythenorth> or draw smoke only for vehicles on screen?
13:42:37  <andythenorth> hmm
13:42:47  <andythenorth> no, because scrolling the map would result in missing smoke
13:42:48  <Terkhen> I started playing with big maps, even huge 8192x8192 maps allowed only by patching
13:42:51  <Terkhen> but now... meh
13:42:53  <Emmy> why isn't ottd not drawing for things not on screen by default anyway?
13:42:58  <Terkhen> my max is 512x256
13:43:00  <Terkhen> Emmy: it is
13:43:11  <andythenorth> to some extent
13:43:28  <andythenorth> it doesn't know what's on screen until the graphics chain is completed
13:43:41  <andythenorth> unless I misunderstood
13:44:07  <andythenorth> so the graphics chain has to be run for every newgrf item
13:44:45  <drac_boy> I always use the same map size all the times .. and its the one ttdx uses anyway :)
13:45:16  <andythenorth> the smoke issue has 2 cases, which may be orthogonal
13:45:25  <Terkhen> IIRC the graphics chain must be run for every newgrf item because, given how the NewGRF specs work, you can't know if the graphics chain is doing "stuff" or not
13:45:32  <andythenorth> (1) ships barely show smoke, as due to the acceleration model used
13:45:59  <andythenorth> (2) can't control z or y position for smoke effect
13:46:16  <andythenorth> oh (3) can't have >1 smoke origin point per vehicle
13:46:36  <andythenorth>  all 3 may be orthogonal
13:47:10  <andythenorth> a spec to solve all 3 might be too hard, patching for any 1 of them would be an improvement
13:48:25  <Terkhen> gah, I'm getting too used to coding on Java
13:53:59  <Kjetil> CollectionFactoryFactoryDriver ?
13:54:49  <Terkhen> those are not a problem :P
13:54:57  <Terkhen> my problem is coming back to c++ and seeing a "->"
13:55:11  <Kjetil> haha
13:55:36  <Pikka> andythenorth: outside the box solutions to 3 are
13:55:45  <Pikka> a) multi-part ships
13:55:58  <Pikka> b) 8-direction smoke sprites
13:56:34  <Emmy> andythenorth: How much of a performance increase would you get if you did a check if something was on-screen before the graphics chain?
13:57:52  <Pikka> can I get a "desync"? :)
13:58:15  <Pikka> what's on-screen for me isn't what's on-screen for you...
13:58:45  <Emmy> how do you mean?
13:58:55  <Kjetil> is that a real issue ?
13:59:21  <Pikka> depends what you mean by "the graphics chain"
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13:59:46  <andythenorth> Pikka: multipart ships o_O
13:59:52  <andythenorth> imagine...
13:59:55  <Pikka> if you mean a whole action 2 chain that calculates whether or not the ship wants to emit smoke, then absolutely it's a real issue
14:00:20  <Pikka> yes andy
14:00:56  <andythenorth> a 1,000t ship could be 1,000 vehicles
14:00:59  <andythenorth> each of 1t
14:01:08  <andythenorth> all with auto-refit support :P
14:01:11  <Pikka> it probably wouldn't be, though :P
14:01:26  <Pikka> maybe 3 seperate holds?
14:01:49  <andythenorth> any reason why 3?
14:01:54  <andythenorth> other than it's the magic number
14:03:33  <Pikka> no, just an example
14:03:39  <Pikka> a more sensible example than 1000 :)
14:04:42  <andythenorth> ho ho
14:06:56  <Kjetil> everything is cargo. You can even start delivering boats ? :P
14:07:56  <andythenorth> we have a spec for that already
14:07:58  <andythenorth> frosch123 wrote it
14:27:26  <drac_boy> can you overlap articulated locomotive sprites especially if they're at different heights anyway? (like for the front bogie underneath a mallet that would swing out to the side on curves as an example)
14:27:50  <andythenorth> don't bother
14:28:36  <drac_boy> so it'll glitch?
14:28:53  <andythenorth> there's just no point
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14:30:19  <andythenorth> even zoomed in, it's not worth trying to replicate the effect
14:30:30  <andythenorth> it's unnecessary detail
14:30:48  <andythenorth> and you'll find a lot of edge cases where it actually looks worse than the alternative method
14:30:52  <andythenorth> e.g. slopes
14:31:45  <andythenorth> hmm
14:35:51  <drac_boy> hm slopes...I forgot to account for it "flexing up the slope"
14:36:03  <drac_boy> yeah I can see why one single rigid sprite is better even if it overhangs ... thanks
14:37:47  <drac_boy> at least some things like garratts or two-body electric locomotives still can do with articulation to a degree
14:38:25  <peter1138> 3d models on the map!
14:40:17  <drac_boy> peter1138 I still kind of prefer the 8bit pixel look but as long as its up to the newgrf arthor rather the game to set the graphic level I don't mind
14:40:36  <drac_boy> (what I mean is the game doesn't care whether you use 2D 8bbp or 3D 32bbp sprites)
15:01:00  <peter1138> or 3d 8bpp or 2d 32bpp
15:01:44  <andythenorth> 3d 2d
15:01:52  <andythenorth> how about 4d?
15:02:20  <peter1138> but no, i meant 3d models on the map, not sprited
15:02:40  <peter1138> andy, yeah, thats called animation
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15:14:18  <Flygon> Real men work with 4bpp
15:14:24  <Flygon> Because then we can port to Mega Drive and SNES :B
15:14:44  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24858 trunk/src/spritecache.cpp (2012-12-26 15:14:37 UTC)
15:14:45  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5404]: Make invalid sprite references to mapgen sprites behave the same as invalid references between recolour and real sprites.
15:16:01  <frosch123> Flygon: 2bpp
15:16:21  <frosch123> though i wonder why 4 colour systems always include stuff like cyan and magenta
15:17:35  <Flygon> I have no idea
15:17:41  <Flygon> It is highly questionable, I agree
15:18:05  <Flygon> What's really confusing, is how the Mega Drive renders colours
15:18:22  <Flygon> It uses an RGB system that... is non-standard, and also can display colours outside of it's master palette
15:18:29  <Flygon> Which sounds like it makes zero sense @_@
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16:20:52  <murr4y> dbg: [net] 'murray' made an error and has been disconnected. Reason: 'processing map took too long'
16:21:00  <murr4y> ^ can you extend the allowed time limit, or something?
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16:22:56  <Terkhen> IIRC it is a setting configurable on the server
16:24:38  <murr4y> aha, thank you
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16:49:03  <andythenorth> I have a crash
16:49:11  <andythenorth> but I changed newgrfs during game
16:49:13  <andythenorth> ages ago
16:49:56  <andythenorth> meh, bad wifi :(
16:49:59  <andythenorth>
16:50:25  <andythenorth> building a CHIPS station
16:50:53  <planetmaker> hm. That's the new assert as of today or yesterday. Wrong sprites accessed
16:51:19  * planetmaker looks up to verify
16:51:26  <andythenorth> it's happened twice, but I can't deterministically reproduce it
16:51:52  <planetmaker> you built head yourself?
16:51:58  <planetmaker> r24858?
16:51:58  <andythenorth> yup
16:52:02  <andythenorth> just had it a third time
16:52:12  <andythenorth> seems related to station building, but that might be coincidence
16:52:20  <andythenorth> r24848
16:52:24  <andythenorth> I'm 10 revs behind
16:52:37  <andythenorth> could just be because CHIPS is broken?
16:53:11  <planetmaker> ah... hm. try r24858
16:53:33  <andythenorth> k
16:54:39  <planetmaker> @ andythenorth
16:54:54  <planetmaker> thus there's a newgrf bug lurking somewhere
16:55:18  <andythenorth> having CHIPS known-broken might be masking other errors :P
16:55:27  <andythenorth> I'm tempted to blame it for all problems right now
16:55:57  <Pikka> andythenorth: just had a quick look at FISH2, not bad. :)  Lack of reliability decay is an interesting choice. ;)
16:56:14  <andythenorth> hmm
16:56:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no amount of brokenness CHIPS may cause asserts in openttd
16:56:32  <andythenorth> probably just did that to try and clear the buy menu of old ship models quickly
16:57:07  <andythenorth> it's not reliable, sometimes there's a gap where a ship size is missing for a few years :P
16:57:09  <Pikka> lack of reliability decay = ships do not lose reliability between services
16:57:15  <Pikka> :P
16:57:17  <Pikka> yes
16:57:39  <Pikka> you've still got a fair few with the 1870 start date...
16:58:05  <andythenorth> maybe I could set reliability decay speed
16:58:09  <andythenorth> maybe I don't currently
16:58:15  <Pikka> you don't currently
16:58:22  <Pikka> maybe
16:59:04  <andythenorth> apparently not
16:59:09  <Pikka> and that default hovercraft is looking more and more out of place :)
16:59:10  <andythenorth> it will be whatever nml defaults to I guess
16:59:21  <andythenorth> dan was redrawing that hovercraft ;)
17:00:14  <andythenorth> there are a lot of ships in 1870
17:00:15  <andythenorth> :P
17:00:29  <Pikka> and I'm missing early passenger ships that aren't paddle steamers, and 19th century ships with sailing rigs, but I guess if I'm asking for them you'll tell me to draw them. :)
17:00:30  <andythenorth> no other vehicle type has to cover sizes from 4t-1000t :)
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17:00:43  <andythenorth> Pikka: I refer you to our canadian friend ;)
17:00:45  <andythenorth> or coxx
17:00:54  <Pikka> goodo :)
17:01:09  <andythenorth> they have sent numerous, beautifully drawn, half-finished passenger steamers, packet ships, cruise liners, paddle tugs, stern wheelers
17:01:19  <andythenorth> all of them either just 1 angle, or 8 unfinished angles :)
17:01:39  <andythenorth> Dan is planning "SailFISH"
17:01:44  <Pikka> code them as-is :D we can have the amazing sideways-travelling ships.
17:02:18  <MinchinWeb> I'm trying to get my AI to work, but I keep getting the error "Your script made an error: bitwise op between 'bool' and 'bool'"
17:02:27  <MinchinWeb> The line in question reads: "LastTile =;" LastTile is an integer, AllTiles is an array
17:02:31  <MinchinWeb> suggestions?
17:03:32  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> Dan is planning "SailFISH" <-- please make them seriously smaller scale than the existing sailship grf
17:03:44  <andythenorth> they'd be FISH scale
17:03:53  <andythenorth> it's about 1px / 1m roughly
17:04:03  <andythenorth> not because scale matters, it just happens to be that way
17:04:16  <Pikka> 1px/1m
17:04:22  <Pikka> isn't that long vehicles scale? ;)
17:04:25  <andythenorth> dunno
17:04:28  <andythenorth> have a cookie
17:04:41  <andythenorth> sets reliability to decay to 20, default value
17:04:51  <andythenorth> I assume nml defaults it to 0, didn't check :P
17:06:26  <planetmaker> default for new vehicles and un-initialized properties is always 0. Both nfo and nml.
17:06:38  <planetmaker> defaults are only different for the existing default vehicles
17:06:55  <planetmaker> but that's not a property of the programming language. But of the game
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17:07:04  <andythenorth> that's the answer there then :)
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17:13:53  <frosch123> MinchinWeb: do you have some longer snipped of code?
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17:14:19  <bolli> Aloha
17:18:54  <planetmaker> ahola
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17:42:36  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24859 trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp (2012-12-26 17:42:29 UTC)
17:42:37  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Make the dropdown handling of the adv. settings GUI more generic.
17:43:41  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24860 /trunk/src (3 files) (2012-12-26 17:43:35 UTC)
17:43:42  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Add SettingDesc::GetType().
17:44:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24861 trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp (2012-12-26 17:44:42 UTC)
17:44:49  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Put all filters for settings into a single struct.
17:47:09  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24862 /trunk/src (6 files in 5 dirs) (2012-12-26 17:47:02 UTC)
17:47:10  <DorpsGek> -Add: Settings type filter to adv. settings GUI.
17:48:31  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24863 /trunk/src (31 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-26 17:48:25 UTC)
17:48:32  <DorpsGek> -Remove: Now redundant method to filter for non-local settings differing from default settings.
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17:59:50  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24864 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2012-12-26 17:59:44 UTC)
17:59:51  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r24863): Update before running sed.
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18:45:35  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24865 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2012-12-26 18:45:24 UTC)
18:45:36  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:37  <DorpsGek> czech - 67 changes by Eskymak
18:45:38  <DorpsGek> finnish - 7 changes by jpx_
18:45:39  <DorpsGek> german - 7 changes by planetmaker
18:45:40  <DorpsGek> spanish - 7 changes by Terkhen
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19:09:08  <andythenorth> is it bad that I just bulldoze rivers?
19:09:54  <andythenorth> they tend to get in the way
19:11:56  <planetmaker> everytime you do that a kitten dies. But they die anyway...
19:12:23  <frosch123> maybe bulldozing rivers should be forbidden, if there is no water connetion between the adjacent tiles anymore
19:12:34  <frosch123> same would hold for canals then
19:12:50  <frosch123> cannot remove canals if they connect rivers
19:12:57  <frosch123> problem is with lakes though :p
19:13:16  <planetmaker> that would make a problem... you couldn't remove canals really ;-)
19:13:44  <planetmaker> what's the lake problem with connectivity?
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19:14:14  <frosch123> well, lakes are an endpoint
19:14:25  <frosch123> if you connect two lakes via canals, what's the end?
19:14:25  <andythenorth> I'm not sure it's much a thing to solve tbh
19:14:53  <frosch123> andythenorth: well, what imo needs changing is, that plain terraforming should not auto-kill rivers
19:14:56  <frosch123> like it does sea
19:15:08  <frosch123> you should explicitly have to bulldoze them
19:15:11  <andythenorth> so the tile re-floods?
19:15:22  * andythenorth tests
19:15:23  <andythenorth> oh I see
19:15:24  <frosch123> no, terraforming jsut fails
19:15:42  <andythenorth> build a culvet tile :P
19:15:46  <andythenorth> or a special class of bridge :P
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19:19:37  <andythenorth> hmm
19:19:53  <andythenorth> local authority is forbidding me building airports even on tiles not part of the town
19:35:13  <frosch123> sue them!
19:35:34  <frosch123> why did noone ever suggest that on the forums?
19:35:49  <frosch123> there are tons of suggestions about share trading and economy
19:36:15  <frosch123> but no suggestions about sueing towns, industries, competitors, vehicle manufacturers, customers, ...
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19:45:18  <Rubidium> frosch123: because there are no Americans on the forum?
19:48:52  <planetmaker> there actually are
19:51:24  <Rubidium> so far I never met one
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19:58:37  <ccfreak2k> The openttd forum?
19:58:40  <frosch123> ah, i guess it does not offer a long gamepley
19:58:53  <frosch123> you just use your start money to patent the idea to transport cargo
20:07:11  <frosch123> oh, wait... you can then spend the rest of the game in court to figure out whether pax are cargo
20:12:48  <planetmaker> :D
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20:59:53  <andythenorth> NewCourts
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21:01:43  <ccfreak2k> NuCourts
21:01:47  <ccfreak2k> there's two cases wrt. pax
21:02:02  <ccfreak2k> one is for tax reasons, the other case is to determine railroad right-of-way.
21:02:27  <ccfreak2k> I'm not even really sure what we're talking about.
21:02:27  <Pinkbeast> Pax clearly are cargo in vanilla OTTD given that they just get on the first train and go wherever you like. :-)
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21:20:04  <drac_boy> hi
21:24:06  <peter1138> hi
21:25:25  <__ln__> how totally wrong is it to express e.g. 18:00 in english as "at eighteen oh-oh"?
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21:44:44  <drac_boy> just wondering about it, how do people get these*/index.html websites/
21:44:49  <drac_boy> websites?*
21:45:09  <frosch123> they ask orudge about one
21:45:34  <drac_boy> oh ok
21:45:58  <drac_boy> is the username manually assigned or it goes by forum username?
21:46:25  <frosch123> quite sure there is only one authentication system, so it would be the same user
21:46:55  <drac_boy> mm
21:46:56  <drac_boy> thanks
21:47:10  <drac_boy> might be a good place to host my project online later when I finally want to share the progress
21:47:41  <frosch123> if you are going for a foss license, you can also use the openttdcoop devzone
21:47:55  <frosch123> you also get a compilefarm and stuff there
21:48:03  <frosch123> issue trackers etc
21:48:11  <drac_boy> don't need that but thanks :->
21:48:33  <frosch123> you won't accept bug reports? :p
21:50:34  <drac_boy> frosch is it also for non-openttd bugs too?
21:50:37  <drac_boy> ;)
21:51:01  <frosch123> what?
21:51:15  <drac_boy> heh sorry I think the humor got lost there
21:51:18  <drac_boy> I meant patch bugs
21:51:52  <frosch123> oh, if you need some, i can file you a dozen
21:52:17  <planetmaker> drac_boy: the devzone offers each project its own issue tracker. So it's an issue tracker only for your bugs.
21:52:46  <Supercheese> Devzone would be nice if you are planning on making a largish GRF
21:52:48  <planetmaker> or the one of your particular project
21:52:55  <Rubidium> isn't there already a patch tracker?
21:53:12  <planetmaker> "tracker" as in unmaintained wiki page?
21:53:38  <frosch123> planetmaker: it was, o* ported it to a real tracker, and got flamed :p
21:54:11  <drac_boy> Rubidium I could like to know that answer too
21:54:14  <planetmaker> he :D
21:54:16  <frosch123> the rest was non-dev forum guys discussing whether all bugs should just be closed as not fixable (since there were no devs), or something like that
21:54:37  <planetmaker> I think I recall
21:54:54  <frosch123> something along the line of "we want a stable", so now just declare it bug-free :p
21:55:55  <frosch123> drac_boy:
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22:02:33  <drac_boy> heh, if there was a tab for grfs too that may had been nice
22:04:21  <drac_boy> but anyway mmm I'll see when and if I want to ask about that user website account thing
22:18:39  <peter1138> *may have
22:19:49  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:06:49  <frosch123> night
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23:13:38  <Supercheese> "So that means you volunteer, you grabbed the code and started find your way around there and to make improvements and bug fixes already? Great!"    "no. i didnt even work on this set. im just a spectator"
23:13:44  <Supercheese> I think sarcasm is lost on some people
23:13:47  <drac_boy> heh
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