Log for #openttd on 4th January 2013:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:06  <peter1138> it's not a procedure
00:00:16  <peter1138> it ensures the temporary register is set to 0
00:00:24  <peter1138> (1A & 00) = 00
00:00:28  <Pikka> yes,
00:00:40  <Pikka> but with nvar 0, it then returns the result as a callback result
00:01:00  <Pikka> which seems a bit pointless, why save something in a temporary register if you're not going to do anything with it? :)
00:01:14  <peter1138> yes exactly
00:01:20  <peter1138> it's being... i don't know what i'm doing :D
00:02:03  <peter1138> where are the escape sequences document? heh
00:02:05  <peter1138> *documented
00:02:12  <Pikka>
00:02:13  <Wolf01> 'night all
00:02:15  <Eddi|zuHause> in the varaction2advanced page
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00:02:24  <peter1138> not those
00:02:27  <peter1138> the \wx etc etc
00:03:02  <Pikka>
00:04:01  <peter1138> hmm
00:04:08  <peter1138> so \wx is 00 00
00:04:11  <Pikka> yes
00:04:35  <peter1138> so it's not a callback result
00:04:38  <Pikka> it is
00:04:45  <Pikka> because you used nvar 0
00:04:53  <peter1138> oh what
00:04:59  <peter1138> fricking crap
00:05:08  <Pikka> if you want it to go on to action 2 00 you need to use
00:05:18  <Pikka> 01 00 00 \w0 \w0 00 00
00:05:24  <peter1138> patchman
00:05:28  <Pikka> rather than 00 \w0
00:05:29  <peter1138> sometimes i fucking hate you!
00:05:47  <Pikka> :]
00:06:12  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is a trap even for some non-newbies ;)
00:06:31  <Pikka> oh
00:06:44  <Pikka> 01 00 00 \b0 \b0 00 00 since it's an 81 :)
00:09:59  <peter1138> //!!Warning (170): Default result cannot be reached.
00:10:00  <peter1138> eh
00:10:19  <frosch123> yeah, that one is the best :)
00:10:33  <frosch123> everyone disables 170 :)
00:11:07  <peter1138> what the shit
00:12:14  <Pikka> yes
00:12:37  <Pikka> I have about a dozen warnings disabled as standard, I don't even remember what they all are.
00:13:03  <Pikka> 172, 132, 100, 194, 170, 144, 86, 76, 209, 141 and 113 in UKRS2...
00:13:43  <Pikka> peter1138: you put     // @@WARNING DISABLE 170 somewhere up the top of your NFO.
00:13:44  <peter1138> well this is a bit irritating
00:14:16  <peter1138> now have to fix 17 instances of nvar 0 == callback result
00:14:20  <Pikka> :)
00:14:22  <peter1138> who the fuck implemented this shit
00:14:37  <Pikka> some cunt or other
00:14:41  <peter1138> i bet
00:15:01  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it was Kant :)
00:16:16  <peter1138> frosch123, see, if i'd used memset, i'd've been in bed HOURS ago
00:16:56  <frosch123> but... would it have been fun? :p
00:18:12  <peter1138> there is so much repition
00:18:24  <peter1138> i'm glad none the stations i did had any varactions :p
00:18:30  <peter1138> or cargos
00:18:32  <peter1138> or anything
00:19:08  <Eddi|zuHause> with your newfound knowledge, you can now implement station support in nml :)
00:19:14  <Supercheese> ^
00:20:59  <peter1138> yay it compiles
00:21:45  <peter1138> hg commit i reckon
00:22:28  <peter1138> or i rewrite it using an include...
00:22:29  <peter1138> nah
00:25:38  * Pikka bebl
00:26:24  <peter1138> lol
00:26:33  <peter1138> look at that, it's still broken...
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00:31:24  <peter1138> ok that was already wrong, so i've not broken it, just not fixed it either
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00:32:23  <drac_boy> supercheese were you the one trying to draw seagulls? or was that someone else? I think I may have messed up my S names
00:32:33  <Supercheese> Yeah, I've got seagulls
00:32:48  <drac_boy> how're they going? especially over the fishing ground? :)
00:33:19  <Supercheese> I think my preprocessor hates me though, since when I moved everything into separate *.pnml files the .grf doesn't work any more -_-
00:33:32  <Supercheese> All I did was separate and #include
00:33:56  <drac_boy> ic
00:33:58  <Supercheese> So I've reverted into everything-all-in-one-giant-file
00:34:16  <Supercheese> back to*
00:35:23  <peter1138> Pikka, stop it
00:36:49  <drac_boy> where did the word 'flats building' come from anyway?
00:36:54  * drac_boy is wondering
00:37:07  <peter1138> what's a "flats building"?
00:37:38  <drac_boy> uk term apparently ... we just call them towers like everything else here
00:38:15  <peter1138> oh you mean "flats"
00:38:50  <drac_boy> hm yeah think so
00:39:35  <drac_boy> at least 'terrace house' I can understand .. they're a bit alike to rowhouses over here
00:42:31  <peter1138> so y eah
00:42:39  <peter1138> they're called flats, cos they're flat
00:42:50  <peter1138> single-floor homes
00:43:50  <Elysium> oth words are used in the UK: a "flat" would generally be a fairly 'ordinary' residence that doesn't constitute the entire space within a building, whereas an "apartment" tends to imply a similar concept, but more luxurious. As I understand, "flat" is rarely used in the US.
00:44:40  <peter1138> apartment is only used to make them _sound_ posher, however it usually means it'll be a new build and thus horrible
00:44:48  <peter1138> (not that flats are nice anyway)
00:45:05  <Supercheese> "flat" is indeed basically never used in the US
00:45:15  <Supercheese> Pretty much always "apartment"
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00:45:52  <Elysium> Its more of a yuppie term for very urban dwelling, like Chicago 4-flat in Wrigleyville
00:49:53  <drac_boy> elysium also some people use 'shack house' (or was it 'shackle house'?) to refer to something that seem so run down whether its got any working servics or not
00:50:12  <peter1138> ramshackle
00:50:50  <peter1138> heh, cool, chips uses random bits that ... don't exist :p
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00:52:16  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: don't try to fix other people's code after midnight :p
00:52:24  <peter1138> not touching that
00:52:35  <peter1138> just setting the triggers so i can test rerandomising
00:52:39  <Elysium> Apartments = low property values, and later section 8 housing
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00:52:52  <drac_boy> yeah that peter1138 I forgot exactly what it was called at first
00:53:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Elysium: so what's that "condo" term i'Ve heard somewhere?
00:53:27  <Elysium> basically its a house split in half
00:53:48  <drac_boy> isn't a house based space usually called a duplex or triplex anyway?
00:53:49  <Elysium> like take a small house, mirror it on the other side, and thats a condo
00:54:05  <drac_boy> minding you that triplexs are a bit rare .. usually need a big house to work
00:54:08  <peter1138> lies!
00:54:10  <Elysium> divided by a garage
00:54:13  <Elysium> in most cases
00:54:25  <peter1138> a condo is a flat that is individually owned
00:54:31  <peter1138> at least, in the US
00:54:34  <peter1138> allegedly!
00:54:46  <Elysium> correct, condo's are personally owned, and not rented
00:54:49  <peter1138> 2 houses stuck together is call a semi-detached ;p
00:55:23  <Eddi|zuHause> in german the term "DoppelhaushÀlfte" (double-huse-half) is frequently used
00:55:28  <Elysium> i've seen places that look like apartments called or sold as condos
00:55:37  <peter1138> exactly
00:55:53  <peter1138> "A condominium, or condo, is the form of housing tenure and other real property where a specified part of a piece of real estate (usually of an apartment house) is individually owned"
00:56:00  <Eddi|zuHause> *house
00:56:07  <drac_boy> sometimes some people may manage to have a triplex designed as a house with 2 floor and full height basement .. so its then one-floor home space for each person with outside stairway to get to the upper floor home
00:56:21  <peter1138> there's also "cluster homes"
00:56:27  <Elysium> I'll throw you guys a term that I used when purchasing my house, In-law suite
00:56:34  <peter1138> which are 4 homes on each corner
00:56:39  <peter1138> horrible nasty things they are
00:56:51  <Elysium> In-law suite is defined as a separate living area with a full kitchen and sleeping area
00:56:56  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: so a "condo" is what one would call "Eigentumswohnung" (owned-flat)
00:57:10  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, nah, i'm english, we don't use the word
00:57:20  <Eddi|zuHause> :p
00:57:23  <Elysium> thus my mother in-law lives in my basement and I never see her, and make my old lady do my laundry
00:57:36  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: we gave you the opportunity to change that... :p
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00:57:55  <peter1138> equivalent term is "commonhold", in constrast with freehold/leasehold, etc
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00:58:09  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, well, now we're forced anyway with the eurozone ;p
00:58:13  <frosch123> night
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00:58:36  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: you're not even in the eurozone
00:58:52  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, i'm pretending i'm a daily mail or the sun reader
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01:31:27  <drac_boy> pikka you by any chance there for a moment?
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01:41:19  <pikka2> innit
01:42:22  <pikka2> here I am, standing by a busy road at indooroopily
01:43:48  <pikka2> wot larks
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01:45:23  <Eddi|zuHause> "So steh ich hier und kann nicht anders"
01:45:50  <Eddi|zuHause> (allegedly said by Martin Luther)
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01:46:14  <pikka2> what a guy
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01:53:06  <pikka2> I am now in a different place, I was in someone's way
01:53:14  * drac_boy is trying to figure out what 'wot larks' means
01:53:21  <pikka2> such details!
01:53:47  <drac_boy> heh
01:54:25  <drac_boy> anyway pikka2 I'm just curious (don't mind me asking you since ukrs is the only one I know with this kind of thing) but how hard is it to code a single locomotive to run with different spec on different railtypes?
01:54:39  <drac_boy> especially that electro-diesel one .. or any of the overhead/3rd rail emu
01:55:19  <peter1138> if railtype == blah then return foo else return bar
01:55:37  <pikka2> not terribly difficult drac
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01:55:47  <pikka2> indeed peter
01:55:52  <peter1138> nice and predictable
01:56:07  <peter1138> not like trying to make triggers work in callbacks eh
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01:56:20  <pikka2> :)
01:57:13  <drac_boy> thanks pikka2 I was just kinda thinking about some of these real locomotives I wanted to more or less loosely replicate
01:57:38  <drac_boy> especially switzerland's few diesel/electric passenger locomotives
01:58:01  <drac_boy> for now I'm just sticking to the simple one-railtype locomotives but maybe I'll figure that out hopefully
01:58:26  <pikka2> drac, imo what you should do is code one to begin with, then you have a template
01:59:26  <drac_boy> yeah thats quite true :)
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02:02:02  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: other examples include the dutch set's multi-voltage engiens and the french NG set's rack rail engines
02:02:16  <drac_boy> oh didn't know dutch had that too
02:03:31  <Eddi|zuHause> it gets tricky when you don't know which trackset is loaded
02:03:59  <drac_boy> yeah nothing like electric locomotive running on standard tracks..just like the original locos did :)
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02:10:21  <peter1138> zbase signals are...
02:10:23  <peter1138> ...
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02:13:01  <pikka2> are they?
02:13:50  <peter1138> they're huge
02:14:36  <peter1138> zbase + ukrs + finescale
02:14:38  <peter1138> funny stuff
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02:19:55  <pikka2> Finescale signals are tiny
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02:20:47  <peter1138> not when you've got extra zoom levels on
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03:33:55  <Flygon> I remember when this room was active D:
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04:26:28  <Pikka> exactly
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06:28:08  <Supercheese>
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06:28:35  <Supercheese> I need some sprites, I want to code a .grf with that
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06:55:13  <peter1138> hm
06:58:08  <peter1138> yet another wacko company
06:58:34  <peter1138> every few years there's a new one with this great idea to make airships
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07:52:40  <Terkhen> good morning
07:57:54  <Pikka> moin Terkhen
07:59:05  <peter1138> yes
07:59:17  <Pikka> no
08:00:17  <peter1138> why
08:00:23  <Pikka> why not?
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08:46:02  <peter1138> Pikka, code some stations so i can test RA2s
08:46:07  <peter1138> cos nobody else can do it right :
08:46:08  <peter1138> :S
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08:53:51  <peter1138> hmm
08:53:54  <peter1138> otoh
08:54:20  <planetmaker> moin
08:54:36  <peter1138> Pikka, the Freightliner has a RA2 inside a callback!
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08:57:14  <peter1138> slight problem with the dummy RA2 idea :-(
08:58:55  <Flygon> Only in Australia would fast commuter trains be limited to 80km/h
09:03:35  <peter1138> peak hour, 24 passengers
09:03:39  <peter1138> i wish
09:03:52  <Flygon> peter1138: It was probably heading TOWARDS the city
09:04:13  <Flygon> Outbound trains tend to be packed quite bad
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09:34:14  <dihedral> greetings
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09:35:38  <peter1138> seasons!
09:44:01  <peter1138> hmm, extend_vehicle_life isn't available in advanced settings
09:47:13  <Flygon> peter1138: I'm just sad it'll probably end up scrapped, despite being barely damaged... it's almost 40 years old. Metro hates Hitachi trains. :(
09:48:21  <Flygon> Also, Seasons
09:48:30  <Flygon> A feature I wsh OpenTTD had :p
09:51:14  <Pikka> does it
09:51:42  <planetmaker> it does
09:51:58  <Pikka> it's just the recolour though
09:52:15  <Pikka> doesn't do anything desyncy or anything
09:52:31  <planetmaker> seasons in openttd? it's more than that, if you look at variable snow line
09:57:06  <peter1138> Pikka, it means it never gets triggered
09:57:24  <Pikka> yep
09:57:48  <peter1138> so it's never rerandomised
09:58:14  <Pikka> yep
09:58:34  <peter1138> so setting 02 as the trigger bit is confusing :p
09:58:51  <Pikka> well
09:59:01  <Pikka> it was meant to get rerandomised
09:59:12  <Pikka> but it doesn't work, and I was eh, whatever.
09:59:37  <peter1138> <-- imgur of the 60-90s (warning, a very few images are very NSFW)
10:00:07  <peter1138> Pikka, is that one of those things where you could spend an hour fixing it
10:00:14  <peter1138> and then decide, meh, looks crap anyway
10:00:15  <Flygon> Oh wow, check out those chicks!
10:00:19  <Flygon> Dem feathers
10:01:06  <Pikka> it wouldn't look crap, it would just load different coloured containers each time
10:01:20  <Pikka> is it even fixable? :)
10:05:09  <Pikka> if I put the randomisation before the callback check?
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10:10:01  <Supercheese> Night all
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10:11:37  <peter1138> Pikka, ish
10:11:45  <peter1138> Pikka, btw i think you'd want trigger 01, not 02
10:12:06  <Pikka> perhaps
10:12:24  <Pikka> I generally do
10:12:37  <peter1138> i.e. it changes when new cargo is put on
10:12:47  <peter1138> otherwise it randomly changes when it goes in a depot
10:13:04  <Pikka> oh, that's a thing
10:13:16  <peter1138> hmm?
10:13:18  <Pikka> colour mapping is cached
10:13:21  <SpComb> "The peak-hour train, carrying 24 passengers, derailed after the tracks buckled due to the heat."
10:13:28  <SpComb> here in Finland, we have to heat our tracks :p
10:13:37  <Pikka> if it changed on loading, it wouldn't actually change until the train turned around
10:14:11  <peter1138> that's fine
10:14:35  <Pikka> is it?
10:15:11  <peter1138> the cache is updated in the trigger
10:15:19  <Pikka> hmm
10:15:21  <peter1138> so it works
10:15:39  <Pikka> well, perhaps I'll fix it
10:15:41  <Pikka> some time :)
10:16:40  <peter1138>  4250 * 39,..... 02 00 11 80 01 00 10 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11
10:16:43  <peter1138> ,....... 00 11 00 11 00 11 00
10:16:44  <peter1138> i added that line
10:16:56  <peter1138> after the line with the existing randomaction2
10:17:36  <peter1138> so it's inserted into the chain you used and always continues that chain
10:17:48  <peter1138> also changed the trigger in both from 02 to 01
10:18:05  <peter1138> now
10:18:07  <Pikka> looks suspiciously like one I already have in there but is commented out :)
10:18:16  <peter1138> just noticed
10:18:18  <peter1138> it's not working
10:18:19  <peter1138> hmm
10:18:28  <Pikka> that particular part you're looking at
10:18:38  <peter1138> or is it
10:18:40  <Pikka> is for "real coloured freightliners"
10:18:50  <Pikka> not for the company coloured versions
10:19:06  <peter1138> ok
10:19:20  <Pikka> try setting the parameter and see if it works
10:19:27  <peter1138> so company coloured freightliners already randomise?
10:19:45  <Pikka> they probably don't rerandomise
10:19:58  <peter1138> they do
10:20:03  <peter1138> at least, with the line i added, heh
10:20:43  <peter1138> hmm, bum
10:20:47  <peter1138> actually you're right
10:20:55  <peter1138> the colours don't change unless it's reversed
10:20:56  <Pikka> :)
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10:21:17  <Pikka> that would be why I commented out the similar line in the first place
10:21:27  <peter1138> yay, love nfo
10:22:23  <Pikka> well, I'm pushing the spec a lot by using recolour sprites the way I do
10:22:26  <peter1138> The return value is cached to speed up sprite processing, and only updated via callback 32 bit 1 (or when loading/starting a game or rearranging the consist).
10:22:32  <peter1138> well i could extend that
10:22:35  <Pikka> the way the grf is at the moment is fine
10:22:50  <Pikka> no-one notices that their freightliners load the same coloured containers every time :)
10:23:14  <Pikka> especially since they're not always exactly the same, because the container patterns (white/grey/cc/2cc) /are/ randomised
10:30:56  <peter1138> ouch
10:31:18  <peter1138> reversing a partially loading freightliner changes the container position :p
10:31:46  <Pikka> :)
10:34:21  <Pikka> does it?
10:35:22  <Pikka> oh
10:36:01  <Pikka> on the middle cars, because the middle cars are actually only 4-directional?
10:36:05  <Pikka> laziness :)
10:36:26  <peter1138> he
10:37:19  <Pikka> anyway, they work well enough.  maybe I'll improve them one day when I have nothing better to do ;)
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10:37:53  <Pikka> perhaps they don't rerandomise... eh
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10:42:22  <peter1138> nope, only with the line i added
10:42:26  <peter1138> so it affects both
10:42:29  <Pikka> :)
10:42:55  <Pikka> there you go, then
10:43:15  <Pikka> if you want to make it so it refreshes the colour on trigger, I'll think about changing it for the next version
10:43:22  <Pikka> but right now, it is a goodnighttimes
10:43:32  <Pikka> toodle pip
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10:43:47  <V453000> doom is coming onwards to the steakhouse!
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10:45:00  <drac_boy> hi
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10:45:16  <Wolf01> moin
10:45:55  * Flygon crushes drac_boy up, blends, and uses in an oil fired steam locomotive. He's lacking in coal fired locomotives :B, "Heya drac_boy"
10:45:59  <Flygon> Also, menta Wolf01
10:47:04  * drac_boy stuffs flygon into a dual stroker equipped locomotive's tender to be cut up by the two augers :P
10:47:22  <Flygon> Yay
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10:55:34  <MINM> ...why are there creepers on that train D:
10:55:44  <MINM> Also
10:55:53  <MINM> why don't we make toyland into mineland.
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10:56:25  <MINM> toyland disaster: creeper blows bus up
10:59:09  <drac_boy> heh
10:59:19  <peter1138> V453000, who made that?
10:59:38  <peter1138> or rather what is it? heh
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11:01:10  <V453000> peter1138: guess who ... :) and it is livestock :)
11:01:46  <peter1138> nice
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11:09:22  <Flygon> If we get a Minecraft overhaul, we're getting a Pokemon overhaul @_@
11:09:27  <Flygon> LAPRAS FREIGHT
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11:12:18  <peter1138> V453000, is each... box... one item?
11:12:27  <V453000> nah
11:12:41  <V453000> I think it is 14 per box
11:13:34  <peter1138> any plans for other MC references? :p
11:20:16  <V453000> the whole train class is a bit inspired by having everything "box-like"
11:20:22  <V453000> other than that probably not :) I am not a mc player myself
11:30:48  <Eddi|zuHause> so references so far: nyan, mincraft, ...?
11:31:36  <V453000> nyan cat was removed
11:31:59  <Eddi|zuHause> ooh :/
11:32:08  <peter1138> aww
11:32:09  <V453000> and one creeper among livestock isnt that much of a strong reference :)
11:33:15  <Eddi|zuHause> a reference is a reference is a reference
11:33:39  <peter1138> is it a weak reference?
11:33:46  <peter1138> likely to be garbage collected...
11:35:25  <V453000> well yeah but by being like 1:1000 probability that you get a creeper for livestock is a lot "weaker" than purchasing a whole network of cat trains ;)
11:38:24  <frosch123> is there also a hydralisk cargo?
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11:53:58  <V453000> that would be hard as hell to make it obvious it is a hydralisk frosch123 :D
11:54:09  <V453000> lets say not YET
11:59:32  <V453000> lol I just put my monitor the short side down, so many lines :D
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13:18:33  <peter1138> I thought I have listed all possibilities...
13:18:36  <peter1138> ^ lol
13:19:17  <Eddi|zuHause> indeed :p
13:21:46  <V453000> :)
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13:26:50  <peter1138> r19517
13:26:54  <peter1138> my roadtypes patch :S
13:27:29  <peter1138> can't find file to patch at input line 737
13:27:31  <peter1138> good stuff
13:34:19  <Belugas> hello
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13:57:35  <peter1138> just as well really, this is crap
14:05:34  <peter1138> Belugas, hi :D
14:26:33  <Belugas> hello my sweet peter1138 :) love to see you having fun with coding ;)
14:34:57  <peter1138> aye
14:44:03  * Belugas is ordering some more cables for some cool routing. got a drum sequencer for tablet too, just need to learn how to use it
14:44:14  <peter1138> okay
14:44:28  <peter1138> apparently converting a load of function signatures to use bool
14:44:37  <peter1138> does not cause a compile failure, nor warning
14:45:09  <peter1138> Belugas, yeah, that was a bit different with the drums the other day
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15:51:40  <peter1138> quiet here today
15:51:49  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
15:55:39  <Eddi|zuHause> /quit here today
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16:26:36  <Belugas> fact is, i really liked those drums sets
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16:39:40  <Belugas> it made a fresh feeling
16:39:49  <Belugas> no... i am not busy at all :S
16:42:46  <peter1138> no?>
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17:11:55  <supermop> hi
17:12:19  <drac_boy> hi supermop
17:17:45  <FLHerne> ho
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18:01:58  <andythenorth> lo
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18:03:19  <peter1138> andythenorth, yes
18:03:56  <FLHerne> andythenorth: ol
18:04:07  <andythenorth> mp
18:04:13  <andythenorth> hmm
18:04:18  <andythenorth> what if I ROT 13 it?
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18:05:36  <Pinkbeast> Ohg gung gevpx arire jbexf!
18:08:30  <andythenorth> @seen pokka
18:08:30  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pokka was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 8 hours, 49 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <Pokka> no, it doesn't mean anything, Supercheese
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18:18:28  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
18:18:44  <Alberth> lo andy
18:19:50  <andythenorth> lego fans are such losers
18:19:51  <andythenorth> nvm
18:22:07  <Alberth> you stopped building legos?
18:22:56  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:24:43  <andythenorth> nope
18:24:56  <andythenorth> just arguing with people on forums
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18:27:01  <Alberth> oh, it is safe to ignore that
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18:27:47  <Pinkbeast> Is there any fandom such that there aren't annoying people to argue with on Web forums?
18:27:53  <Pinkbeast> Other than the Amish, I guess.
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18:30:09  <andythenorth> mostly TTD
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18:38:10  <peter1138> andythenorth
18:38:16  <andythenorth> that's me
18:38:17  <andythenorth> hi
18:38:36  <peter1138>
18:38:46  <peter1138> (or something)
18:38:59  <peter1138> hg import maybe
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18:40:21  <andythenorth> ooh
18:40:26  <andythenorth> not broken for maglev :)
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18:45:42  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24886 /trunk/src/lang (6 files in 2 dirs) (2013-01-04 18:45:30 UTC)
18:45:43  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:44  <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 20 changes by xiangyigao
18:45:45  <DorpsGek> greek - 49 changes by Evropi
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> icelandic - 131 changes by Stimrol
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> indonesian - 11 changes by H2
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> korean - 1 changes by telk5093
18:45:49  <DorpsGek> tamil - 4 changes by aswn
18:47:04  <andythenorth> not broken for standard rails.  Not broken for railtypes
18:47:49  <andythenorth> not broken for canset narrow gauge :o
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19:04:30  <andythenorth> peter1138 I thinks you fixed it
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19:13:15  <andythenorth> maybe I commit
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19:25:33  <burtybob> With autorenew enabled does that send vehicles to the depot to be renewed or does the renew happen when the vehicle goes for a service based on it's "service interval"?
19:25:47  <peter1138> when it goes for service i believe
19:26:20  <peter1138> i seem to recall that most cases of "autorenew doesn't work" are down to servicing being disabled
19:26:41  <frosch123> it enables servicing
19:27:00  <frosch123> but pbs makes finding a depot harder sometimes
19:27:05  <peter1138> oh
19:27:15  <peter1138> god this is shit :p
19:27:32  <peter1138> so many special cases for trams, heh
19:27:43  <burtybob> So it sends the vehicle to the depot regardless of service interval?
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19:30:07  <frosch123> ah wait, i think it depends on how servicing is disabled
19:30:18  <frosch123> if it is only disabled due to breakdowns disabled, it is enabled
19:30:32  <frosch123> but if you set the service interval to zero or something like that, it cannot enable it
19:30:59  <frosch123> autoreplace/renew triggers "service needed"
19:31:12  <frosch123> when the servicing happens and such is the same as for any other service type
19:31:45  <frosch123> so, autoreplace respects the service interval, it does not shorten it
19:34:12  <burtybob> Cheers :D
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19:34:44  <oRuin> Hey :)   I was wondering if someone could help me with my problem, its concerning my dedicated server and newgrfs. I'ts the last post on this thread
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19:36:01  <Terkhen> oRuin: dedicated servers cannot host NewGRF downloads; the "download missing NewGRFs" option refers to downloading them from OpenTTD's online content
19:36:33  <oRuin> ok, so how do I use newgrfs on my server?
19:36:33  <Terkhen> if they cannot download them, that means that you are using a NewGRF that is not available in OpenTTD's online content
19:36:56  <Terkhen> either limit your game to NewGRFs available there or tell your players how to adquire the missing NewGRFs manually
19:36:57  <oRuin> hmm, all of them are available
19:37:31  <oRuin> how do i limit my game, sorry im confused
19:38:25  <Terkhen> oRuin: make sure that all of the NewGRFs you are using are listed here:
19:38:41  <oRuin> they are
19:38:59  <oRuin> and where do i place them on my server?
19:39:17  <oRuin> currently I have them in content_download/newgrfs
19:40:19  <Terkhen> content_downloads is for NewGRFs downloaded by the game itself, just place them in the newgrf subfolder
19:40:47  <oRuin> yeh tried in there
19:41:08  <oRuin> my brother still does not get 'missing content' when he joins the server
19:41:12  <Terkhen> but if your clients are the ones who cannot connect because of missing NewGRFs, that means that the server found them and that the game is already created
19:41:37  <peter1138> are the grfs still listed in the config?
19:41:41  <oRuin> yes
19:41:47  <peter1138> it may wipe them out if it didn't find them the first time
19:41:51  <oRuin> the cfg is from my client
19:42:01  <oRuin> i set it up locally
19:42:09  <oRuin> then copied to newgrfs and the config over
19:42:34  <andythenorth> peter1138: trams have magic crap for corners, and getting stuck and all kinds of stuff iirc :P
19:42:36  <oRuin> been trying to work this out for days, it's just not working
19:43:03  <andythenorth> erp, maybe tram tiles should be a state machine, Eddi|zuHause would like that :)
19:43:19  <andythenorth> or a specific 'guided' vehicle type :P
19:43:34  <Eddi|zuHause> now you're just throwing up stuff :p
19:44:05  <Eddi|zuHause> and technically, road curves already have a (simple) statemachine
19:44:10  <andythenorth> heh
19:44:39  <Eddi|zuHause> and trams just reuse the road stuff, except for overtaking and reversing
19:46:39  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> so, autoreplace respects the service interval, it does not shorten it  <-- last time i checked, it seemed to work for autoreplace, but not for autorenew
19:47:24  <Eddi|zuHause> causing it to constantly bother you with "vehicle gets old" messages, which you can't disable individually afair, only "all vehicle messages"
19:47:44  <Terkhen> oRuin: the problem is that other clients get a "missing NewGRFs" message when they try to connect to your server, right?
19:47:56  <oRuin> nope
19:48:13  <oRuin> the problem is, my server is not using any newgrfs i want it to use
19:48:37  <oRuin> i have the newgrf .tars in the newgrf subfolder
19:48:37  <frosch123> how did you configure the grfs on the server?
19:48:59  <oRuin> my config file (that i created locally) has them listed
19:49:08  <frosch123> if you copied openttd.cfg from win to linux, it might be a / \ issue in the paths
19:49:15  <oRuin> ok
19:49:24  <frosch123> does the server complain about invalid filename in the config?
19:49:27  <oRuin> thats what my brother just mentioned, 1 moment
19:49:40  <oRuin> nope
19:53:07  <peter1138> andythenorth, more than that
19:53:17  <peter1138> special cases for towns, bridges, level crossings, etc, etc,
19:53:35  <Terkhen> oRuin: create a savegame in a client that uses those NewGRFs and load it in the dedicated server, that way you will be able to see if the server found the NewGRFs or not
19:53:50  <andythenorth> urgh, I tried to fix crossings once, for about 4 days :P
19:53:59  <andythenorth> tram crossings use that silly road sprite
19:54:38  <oRuin> great stuff
19:54:41  <oRuin> working :)
19:54:53  <oRuin> was just the /  \  issue!
19:54:57  <oRuin> thanks very much for your time guys
19:56:55  <Terkhen> yw
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20:08:19  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> tram crossings use that silly road sprite <- this is easy to solve for three-layers or one-layers version of roadtypes, but with two layers it's difficult because the map-space for the second layer is occupied by the railtype
20:09:14  <Eddi|zuHause> in the one-layer-version you just have enough space, and in the three-layer-version you just sacrifice one layer
20:11:24  <peter1138> what?
20:12:06  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: you currently can't have a rail/tram crossing, it will always force the road to be present
20:12:20  <peter1138> yup
20:12:43  <andythenorth> it's solvable, it just looks terrible
20:12:48  <andythenorth> due to monorail
20:12:52  <andythenorth> where's my screenshots :P
20:13:45  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well if the graphics are the problem, then you just need to provide proper underlay/overlay sprites
20:14:07  <andythenorth> iirc, that's not possible, due to the way railtypes are implemented
20:14:14  <andythenorth> from half-memory only though
20:14:40  <peter1138> no
20:14:55  <peter1138> with newgrf railtypes it's easypeasy to have a tram-only level crossing
20:15:14  <Eddi|zuHause> the drawing order could be something like: ground, rail underlay, tram underlay, [road], tram overlay, rail overlay, [...]
20:15:15  <peter1138> pre-railtypes it wasn't, and that's why you can't
20:15:30  <andythenorth> the issue is literally that monorail + tram tracks makes no sense :P
20:15:46  <peter1138> andythenorth, that's not an issue at all
20:15:54  <Eddi|zuHause> monorail crossings make no sense in general
20:15:54  <andythenorth> I can haz some screen shots, I'm looking
20:15:58  <peter1138> monorail/maglev + road never made sense
20:16:00  <andythenorth> you don't want all 10 though :P
20:17:40  <andythenorth> I have the patch...somewhere :P
20:18:27  <andythenorth> distractions
20:18:36  <peter1138> i don't really care about the detail of how it'll look at the moment
20:18:53  *** Pixa [] has joined #openttd
20:20:21  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the currently floating around proposals were "one layer for everything, road/tram-combinations encoded in roadtype", "two layers, one tram-only and one road-only", and "two or three layers, free combination"
20:20:22  <FLHerne> Query: Is there a reason that NewObjects can optionally have bridges built over them, but not stations?
20:20:41  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: yes.
20:21:01  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: station specs are older than object specs
20:21:06  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Correction: What is the reason that...
20:21:27  <FLHerne> Aw. Can we have new station specs? :P
20:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause> you can, but it won't work with existing station grfs
20:22:03  <Eddi|zuHause> the coding effort wouldn't be that large
20:22:08  *** LordPixaII [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:22:28  <FLHerne> Yet another reason for me to learn more C++, then :-/
20:22:51  <andythenorth> do NewObjects reliably set a height for the sprites?
20:22:56  <andythenorth> without lying?
20:23:15  <Eddi|zuHause> you need a property for stations defining the minimum bridge height (or "no bridge"), similar to objects, and you need the bridge building code to allow station tiles underneath (make sure the bits are free in the map)
20:23:18  <peter1138> didn't we already discuss this?
20:23:52  <Eddi|zuHause> something in the order of 20 loc, i'd expect, so 2 hours of coding :)
20:23:52  <andythenorth> yes
20:24:12  <andythenorth> peter1138: endlessly I think :)
20:24:30  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, it's a bit more than that
20:24:33  <andythenorth> I might go and count up how many black birds are in a pie or something
20:25:06  <peter1138> 27 loc
20:25:13  <peter1138> anywa
20:25:26  <andythenorth> maybe I add a dock industry to FIRS
20:25:35  <peter1138> it was written years ago, it's never been added because of sprite sorting issues
20:26:39  <andythenorth> teyjeyvey
20:27:38  <peter1138> they don't use powered track any more?
20:27:51  <andythenorth> narp
20:27:54  <andythenorth> batteries
20:28:00  <andythenorth> some AHOLs whine about that
20:28:11  <peter1138>
20:28:15  <andythenorth> but meanwhile!  No shorts due to connecting wrong!
20:28:19  <andythenorth> no dead sections!
20:28:21  <andythenorth> no power drop!
20:29:13  <andythenorth> station bridges :)
20:30:02  <peter1138> May 2007, btw
20:30:46  <andythenorth> I haven't missed them much in those 6 years ;)
20:31:04  <andythenorth> something road-y might be more interesting for gamplay
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20:32:00  <peter1138> bridges over roadstops?
20:32:26  <FLHerne> peter1138: Nice picture. Can have? :P
20:32:44  <andythenorth> what?
20:32:50  <FLHerne> If it glitches in some cases, we could just not build bridges in that case :P
20:32:59  <andythenorth> you want the picture he posted to demonstrate the issues with the sprite sorter?
20:33:02  <peter1138> it glitches in all cases
20:33:03  <andythenorth> download it :P
20:34:23  * FLHerne needs to work on making contracted sentences comprehensible (or just not writing them)
20:34:29  <andythenorth> I'm going to commit that CHIPS thing
20:34:36  <andythenorth> as I have found no further breakage in the last hour
20:34:38  <FLHerne> peter1138: Ah well. It isn't that obvious :P
20:34:48  <andythenorth> mind, OpenTTD has not been running for the last hour :P
20:34:55  <andythenorth> "high quality software ftw"
20:35:42  <andythenorth> peter1138: yexo might be interested in what / how you fixed it
20:35:54  <andythenorth> I am way too lazzy to read the diffs ;)
20:35:54  <peter1138> check the export :p
20:35:58  <peter1138> lol
20:36:03  <peter1138> first part is reverting r223
20:36:10  <andythenorth> he
20:36:17  <peter1138> second part is setting temp[0] to 0
20:36:26  <peter1138> for every single chain where it's needed
20:36:50  <peter1138> personally i consider it a slight flaw in the spec, but never mind
20:36:58  <peter1138> it was made to do something hard
20:37:14  <peter1138> and so something that could be simple is hard as well :p
20:37:34  *** drac_boy [] has joined #openttd
20:37:38  <drac_boy> hi
20:37:40  <andythenorth> hrm
20:37:53  <andythenorth> I applied that export just with patch, that expected to work? (wfm)
20:38:01  <drac_boy> you making any progress on anything yet andythenorth? I just had to ask mind you
20:38:15  <andythenorth> yes, I am fixing CHIPS
20:38:20  <andythenorth> you should see the big patch I have
20:38:34  <peter1138> andythenorth, might, put hg import might do it better, i dunno
20:38:47  <peter1138> not really much of an hg user
20:38:56  <andythenorth> me neither :P
20:39:12  <drac_boy> heh ok I wouldn't ask about it then :)
20:39:34  <peter1138> you can do it all as one
20:39:58  <peter1138> but having the backout separate makes it tidier
20:40:17  <Eddi|zuHause> hg import will (or should) automatically make 2 commits out of it, and possibly preserve the author of the commit
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20:43:25  <andythenorth> imported
20:43:27  <andythenorth> pushed
20:54:35  <andythenorth> bananed
20:55:38  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds evil :p
20:56:40  <andythenorth> forumised
20:58:08  <Alberth> bananad might be better :)
20:58:55  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
20:59:02  <Eddi|zuHause> what does the banana-daemon do?
20:59:40  <andythenorth> it takes away alberths
21:09:56  <drac_boy> heh :)
21:18:40  *** Pikka [] has joined #openttd
21:19:06  <andythenorth> pokka!
21:19:14  <Pikka> isn't it madam!
21:19:21  <Pikka> supanandy
21:19:46  <andythenorth> peterer fixed my station blahs
21:19:54  <Pikka> hooray!
21:20:03  <andythenorth> now you can station walk, even maglevs
21:20:10  <andythenorth> to your heart's desire
21:20:14  <Pikka> :]
21:20:17  <Pikka> also!
21:20:22  <andythenorth> so there is good in the world
21:20:27  <Pikka> blah to people who want separate tram tracks!
21:20:34  *** M1zera [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:20:47  <peter1138> wut
21:20:49  <Pikka> trams are definitely in the "it seemed like a good idea at the time" category
21:20:59  <Pikka> along with regearing cargos :D
21:21:18  <peter1138> i disliked trams from the start
21:21:23  <peter1138> they're just smallish trains :p
21:21:38  <Pikka> some of them
21:21:55  <andythenorth> yay
21:21:59  <andythenorth> no silly signals
21:22:14  <andythenorth> trains driving through each other!
21:22:24  <andythenorth> they're almost as good as ships :P
21:22:27  <Pikka> D:
21:22:37  <Pikka> anyway, down with trams, up with roadtypes
21:22:40  *** M1zera [] has joined #openttd
21:22:45  <Pikka> including roadtypes with tram tracks
21:23:06  <Pikka> but not including trams as a separate layer!
21:23:19  <andythenorth> is that even controversial?
21:23:24  <Pikka> yes
21:23:26  <andythenorth> eh?
21:23:29  <andythenorth> JFDI
21:23:32  <Pikka> everyone wants to keep trams as a separate layer
21:23:40  <andythenorth> because...?
21:23:44  <andythenorth> they're halfwits?
21:23:52  <Pikka> so tram tracks can have a different owner from the road
21:23:53  <andythenorth> they're strange foamers?
21:23:54  <Pikka> for whatever reason
21:23:55  <andythenorth> oh that
21:24:00  <andythenorth> gameplay and crap :P
21:24:17  <andythenorth> so I don't have to build bridges over your road
21:24:19  <andythenorth> herp
21:24:28  <Pikka> you don't have to build bridges over my road
21:24:40  <Pikka> you just have to accept that one tile of your tram line will be owned by me
21:24:52  <andythenorth> well then
21:24:54  <andythenorth> where's the issue
21:24:57  <andythenorth> silly pickles
21:24:57  <peter1138> not if you don't build it
21:25:27  <Pikka> peter: my proposed spec allows "upgrading" other people's roads without taking ownership
21:26:01  <Pikka> also people are getting hung up on crap like overhead monorails and fake subways
21:26:16  <Pikka> stop it at once, silly people
21:26:17  <andythenorth> overhead monorails are fucked anyway
21:26:21  <andythenorth> they can't pass through bridges
21:26:26  <andythenorth> fake subways blah
21:26:58  <drac_boy> pikka heh .. I really like trams .. just wish for non-wired versions .. but I do agree.. monorail/etc don't make sense in the current "flat tiles" geometry
21:27:08  <drac_boy> not to mention how do you even make a monorail road crossing? you don't!
21:27:24  <andythenorth> not even sure what I'd do with roadtypes
21:27:26  <andythenorth> but
21:27:28  <andythenorth> why not!
21:27:33  <Pikka>
21:28:15  <peter1138> dirt tracks for heqs
21:28:20  <andythenorth> ban trucks in town
21:28:24  <Pikka> oh, that's the other thing
21:28:28  <andythenorth> trams without weasels
21:28:32  <andythenorth> wires *
21:28:42  <peter1138> cobblestone roads in old towns
21:28:44  <Pikka> "if tram and road aren't separate layers, I can't use different grfs for road and tram tracks"
21:28:49  <Pikka> psh
21:28:52  <andythenorth> who gives a crap
21:28:54  <andythenorth> JFDI
21:28:58  <Pikka> FLHerne
21:29:03  <Pikka> apparently
21:29:03  <andythenorth> I can't even have smoke for ships
21:29:08  <andythenorth> is FLHerne coding it?
21:29:25  <FLHerne> ???
21:29:38  <peter1138> anyway
21:29:45  <Pikka> bitching about roadtypes, FLHerne
21:29:50  <FLHerne> Ah, yes :P
21:30:01  * FLHerne hadn't looked at the history yet
21:30:34  * Pikka thinks maybe today is hoqvs day
21:30:46  <FLHerne> Different grfs for the road and for non-road types would be nice.
21:30:47  <andythenorth> is that some kind of giant dump-truck-bus thing?
21:30:56  <Pikka> yse
21:30:59  <andythenorth> a fricking pony would be nice too
21:31:04  <andythenorth> and ice cream on it
21:31:07  <FLHerne> Any sort of roadtypes would be nice, too :-)
21:31:12  <peter1138> you have 2
21:31:12  <andythenorth> correct answer
21:31:19  <Eddi|zuHause>  <Pikka> you just have to accept that one tile of your tram line will be owned by me <-- you mean "you can't build tram tracks over my road, because there is no function that guarantees that all my vehicles can cross your new roadtype"?
21:31:20  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Would the pony like the icecream on it?
21:32:05  <FLHerne> My rat doesn't like having icecream on him at all, but that's entirely irrelevant to your point
21:32:06  <Eddi|zuHause> like, i could have busses that don't fit under tram catenary or something
21:32:09  <Pikka> yes there is, eddi.
21:32:25  <peter1138> and yet they fit under bridges? :p
21:32:43  <Pikka> have you ever tried connecting, say, 3rd rail electrified track to overhead electrified track in current versions of openttd?
21:33:05  <drac_boy> pikka...nutracks already does that?
21:33:08  <FLHerne> peter1138: If the catenary fits under bridges, it must be (slightly) lower than them :P
21:33:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: have you ever tried to connect third rail to electric _of another player_?
21:33:20  <FLHerne> And yes, I know it isn't actually drawn under bridges
21:33:33  <FLHerne> (or is that just rails catenary?)
21:33:36  <Pikka> "another player" is irrelevent
21:33:56  <Pikka> if trains of the old railtype won't run on the new railtype, you can't build the tile
21:34:09  <Pikka> if rvs of the old roadtype won't run on the new roadtype, you can't build the tile
21:34:12  <Pikka> same thing
21:34:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: so now, you built this tram thing, but now you want to switch to trolleybus, but some tiles you can't remove the rails because they belong to another player, or you used up your town rating or somesuch
21:35:12  <Eddi|zuHause> and potentially trolley bus and tram cannot cross
21:35:29  <Eddi|zuHause> (because like the catenaries are incompatible or so)
21:35:42  <andythenorth> complain to the newgrf author
21:35:52  <Pikka> firstly, that sounds like a bad idea from a grf design point of view
21:36:06  <Pikka> secondly, at the moment I can remove my roads or tramtracks that have your vehicles on them
21:36:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it's "realistic" i'm sure ;)
21:36:31  <Pikka> I can block your roads with level crossings, I can do all sorts of things that aren't conducive to cooperative gameplay
21:36:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: yes, because you built the road/tram track
21:37:05  <Pikka> this doesn't make the situation significantly worse
21:37:19  <Pikka> and also, your "solution" to this problem only solves the problem wrt trams vs road vehicles
21:37:27  *** ArkRoyal [] has joined #openttd
21:38:02  <Pikka> do we need to make highways and dirt roads separate layers to prevent conflicts between highway and offroad vehicles?
21:38:54  <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's just a matter of how to organize the compatibility half-order
21:39:05  <Pikka> treating trams as a special case is bad.  any special cases are bad if we're designing an open-ended spec for people to do with as they wish.
21:39:11  <ArkRoyal> I don't know if I'm asking in the right place, but I was told to moot vague ideas in the IRC (which I think is here). Would there be any call for a bouys pack so that people could create realistic boyage in games?
21:39:16  <Eddi|zuHause> which isn't a half-order anyway because it's not transitive
21:39:49  <drac_boy> pikka I think the only reason trams had to be coded apart is because trams can't just simply "turn where they want to go down to"
21:39:54  <drac_boy> they have to follow a fixed route
21:39:58  <drac_boy> I could be wrong tho
21:40:09  <Pikka> the same goes for any vehicle which can only use certain roadtypes, drac_boy
21:40:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: there's the other spec proposal where you don't differentiate between tram-like and road-like, you just can free-form combine two (or three) roadtypes on one tile
21:40:32  <Eddi|zuHause> so you could have e.g. subway, road and elevated-monorail on the same tile
21:40:35  <FLHerne> ArkRoyal: 'bouys', 'boyage' (!), and the spec for that might not actually exist yet
21:40:45  <Eddi|zuHause> each with different owners and road layouts
21:40:59  <Pikka> that's a whole other order of thing, though eddi
21:41:01  <peter1138> bleh
21:41:13  <FLHerne> You could create NewObject buoys that overlapped the real ones, in the same way as Quast65's assorted stuff?
21:41:23  <peter1138> might as well delete all my roadtypes stuff
21:41:28  <drac_boy> pikka what I had actually meant was a bus could decide to turn left instead of go straight .. but a tram can't just do that
21:41:44  <Pikka> it can if there's tram tracks to the left, drac_boy
21:41:54  <Pikka> don't do that peter1138
21:41:55  <drac_boy> pikka and what if there isn't?
21:42:00  <Pikka> then it can't
21:42:09  <Pikka> and if there isn't road to the left, the bus can't turn left either
21:42:31  <andythenorth> herp, any roadtypes > 0 roadtypes
21:42:34  <drac_boy> well there is a road to left .. but no tram track there tho.  but anyway .. I'll rather not drag into an arguement over needing trams to be seperated from road
21:42:41  <drac_boy> ;)
21:42:45  <Pikka> what if there's tram track but no road, drac_boy?
21:42:57  <ArkRoyal> oh hello FLH - presume you can guess who I actually am? Could a NewGRF pack be made to make them look right, as opposed to behave right?
21:43:00  <Pikka> and what about my B-triples which can only drive on highways and private roads?
21:43:01  <peter1138> on the next tile?
21:43:11  <ArkRoyal> presumably behaving right is more difficult?
21:43:31  * andythenorth figures that working code wins arguments
21:43:36  <Pikka> yes
21:43:37  <peter1138> talking about putting road bits down dynamically based on what's next to the tile?
21:43:42  <andythenorth> apache voting rules? :P
21:43:47  <peter1138> (cos that'd suck)
21:43:58  <andythenorth> peter1138 deletes his roadtypes patch, +/-1 ?
21:44:06  <drac_boy> heh andythenorth thats why I haven't talked much about some of my own things yet because I'll prefer to share a demostration grf first instead :)
21:44:06  * andythenorth -1
21:44:11  <Pikka> -6
21:44:15  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that would totally break with two parallel roads
21:44:20  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, quite
21:44:25  <Pikka> we're waiting eagerly for that day, drac_boy
21:44:25  <peter1138> so
21:44:27  <Eddi|zuHause> simcity had such problems
21:44:36  * andythenorth warn me when you'll talk more than you do, I'll get ear plugs :P
21:44:55  <peter1138> if you have only one type of road, and have 3 road types (road, tram, road + tram)
21:45:08  <peter1138> then if your road turns left, your tram will too
21:45:13  <Pikka> peter
21:45:24  <Pikka>
21:45:33  <Pikka> make a basic spec, leave making it look pretty to the grf :P
21:45:45  <peter1138> i'm not talking about looks
21:46:02  <drac_boy> eddi which simcity version?
21:46:12  <drac_boy> the 4000 one with controlable vehicles?
21:46:31  <Pikka> what are you talking about then?  that trams will see little dead ends everywhere they can turn around in?
21:46:38  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: when i say simcity i mean of course simcity
21:46:41  <peter1138> Pikka, yes
21:46:46  <Eddi|zuHause> not simcity 4
21:46:52  <andythenorth> they won't just get stuck?  Like they do now? o_O
21:46:57  <FLHerne> ArkRoyal: PM
21:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause> (there is no simcity 4000 anyway)
21:47:05  <peter1138> Pikka, natually if you only have one type of road on a tile, then you only have one set of road bits
21:47:10  <Pikka> perhaps that's a vehicle property
21:47:11  <drac_boy> eddi I don't recall classic simcity having different types
21:47:17  <drac_boy> unless there were two different editions of it
21:47:22  <Pikka> "can't turn around anywhere, ever"
21:47:24  <peter1138> and any vehicle that can go on that tile can use any of those bits
21:48:03  <Pikka> yes... so perhaps it's a vehicle thing, it needs to be told not to go into dead ends because it can't turn around?
21:48:04  <drac_boy> I only recall there being road and serves-any-tiles rail alone .. but simcity 2000 required stations for the rails .. at least it also added subways to that
21:48:06  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: no, but it had automatic crossing building, where you'd end up with crossings everywhere if you built two parallel roads
21:48:22  <drac_boy> oh
21:49:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i think they tried to handle that case in simcity3000, but it was not usable on special cases
21:49:47  <Eddi|zuHause> then simcity4 came along where you had more like "road bits", which you altered by dragging in some direction
21:49:59  <Eddi|zuHause> but it still had cases where it broke
21:50:27  <Pikka> hah
21:50:33  <Pikka> it already works like that :D
21:50:44  <Pikka> peter1138, trams already don't try to turn around in stubs
21:50:50  <andythenorth> yes
21:50:58  <andythenorth> they just get stuck, like stupid dumbasses :P
21:51:02  <Pikka> nope
21:51:06  <andythenorth> but probably correctly
21:51:07  <Pikka> they don't even try
21:51:16  <andythenorth> I'm agreeing :P
21:51:28  <Pikka> no, they don't get stuck, andythenorth
21:51:40  <Pikka> they correctly continue past the stub and round the loop
21:51:45  <andythenorth> ah
21:51:48  <andythenorth> case of no loop?
21:51:53  <peter1138> yet more special-case code for trams
21:51:54  <andythenorth> I had that case in mind :P
21:51:54  <Pikka> even though turning around in the stub and going back the other way would get them there faster
21:51:57  <ArkRoyal> FLHerne: Had the same idea - just PM'd you
21:52:10  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you can't build a loop on a road if the road continues
21:52:20  <andythenorth> no
21:52:22  <FLHerne> ArkRoyal: Can you see my query?
21:52:31  <andythenorth> you have to demolish some building to build your loop
21:52:40  <Eddi|zuHause> (if you remove the tram layer)
21:52:48  <peter1138> fwiw
21:52:54  <andythenorth> rm trams
21:52:56  <Pikka> they go to the end of the track and get stuck
21:52:57  <andythenorth> they're dumb anyway
21:53:02  <andythenorth> no good newgrfs featuring them
21:53:09  *** valhalla1w [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:53:11  <Pikka> hoqvs!
21:53:12  <peter1138> i'm in favour of 2 road types per tile
21:53:26  <drac_boy> actually I use HEQS virtually on all of my games
21:53:30  <drac_boy> especially railmotors
21:53:33  <peter1138> independent roadbits
21:53:43  <andythenorth> Pikka:
21:53:52  <andythenorth> hoqvs!
21:53:53  <Pikka> it's too messy, peter1138
21:54:04  <peter1138> trams are messy
21:54:15  <andythenorth> someone's mum is too messy
21:54:17  <andythenorth> dunno whose
21:54:19  <peter1138> roadtypes would be a damn sight easier if they'd never been hacked in
21:54:24  <Pikka> I agree
21:54:26  <peter1138> (to ttdpatch, and copied to ottd)
21:54:32  <andythenorth> rm them
21:54:42  <andythenorth> I'll help :P
21:54:46  <Pikka> it's all stevenh and some other guy's fault!
21:54:47  <FLHerne> drac_boy: Do you mean those gmund-mog thingies?
21:54:47  <andythenorth> removing must be easier, right?
21:54:54  <peter1138> i think i'd be shot for removing savegame compatibility
21:54:56  <drac_boy> FLHerne no...the actual railmotor
21:55:03  <drac_boy> they're the shorter 2-axle light capacity things
21:55:12  <drac_boy> instead of the other one that hauls several small cars
21:55:12  <Eddi|zuHause> that may all be true, but that doesn't mean it would be easier now to remove them
21:55:24  <FLHerne> drac_boy: Oh, some kind of tram thing?
21:55:35  <drac_boy> FLHerne duh .. I take it you never looked up HEQS? :)
21:55:38  <drac_boy> just asking
21:55:42  * FLHerne hasn't played with the more recent HEQS yet
21:55:55  <andythenorth> oh you haven't lived
21:56:06  <andythenorth> he who is tired of HEQS is tired of liff
21:56:10  <FLHerne> drac_boy: I was thinking the rail version of 'Gmund-Mog' when you said 'railmotor' ;-)
21:56:23  <Pikka> andythenorth, with no loop they go as far as they can before they get stuck
21:56:29  <Pikka> seems like reasonable behaviour
21:56:37  <FLHerne> I don't think the version I have has an actual thing called 'railmotor' :P
21:56:48  <andythenorth> Pikka: definitely reasonable
21:56:53  <Pikka> so you can keep that as part of the "tram-like" flag behaviour
21:56:54  <drac_boy> FLHerne this is the older list but most of the trams are still there
21:57:04  <Pikka> also, apply that flag to b-triples!
21:57:12  <drac_boy> the railmotor I refer to are the must shortest one as you may notice
21:57:13  <Pikka> so they're "tram like" but run on normal roads
21:57:24  <FLHerne> drac_boy: Oh, I see. Small trams :D
21:57:26  <Eddi|zuHause> how about freeform combination of road layers (by michi_cc's coolstuff thingie), and each roadtype gets a "layertype", like "road", "tram", "underground", "elevated", ... [like "cargoclass"], and no two roadbits of the same direction may have the same class?
21:57:27  <Pikka> can't u-turn, get stuck if they hit a dead end :]
21:57:36  <peter1138> it would be possible to convert from independent road + tram to road/tram/roadtram types
21:57:42  <drac_boy> flherne I always end up with a hundred of various trams in just about any games seriously
21:57:44  <peter1138> if it wasn't for that pesky 2nd owner
21:57:44  <drac_boy> :)
21:57:47  * FLHerne could use them to deliver fruit into towns :D
21:58:08  <andythenorth> who's the second owner on a road + tram + rail crossing?
21:58:09  <andythenorth> :P
21:58:15  <andythenorth> out of interests
21:58:22  <peter1138> 3 owners
21:58:27  <peter1138> eyes
21:58:37  <Eddi|zuHause> so you could have a trail crossing a road, but they can't be along the same direction, because both would be in the "road" layer
21:58:53  <drac_boy> flherne the funny thing is I've been thinking about asking about a small patch to HEQS for two particular cargos of mine but .. we'll see ... would be easier than trying to make new tram sprites all over again :)
21:58:59  <FLHerne> andythenorth: And no, I haven't even got bored of the ancient HEQS version yet :P
21:59:04  <peter1138> there's space for 3 owners there cos you don't need roadbits
21:59:23  <andythenorth> herp
21:59:27  <andythenorth> roads are common carrier?
21:59:27  <Eddi|zuHause> diagonal crossings!
21:59:28  <andythenorth> :P
21:59:39  <Eddi|zuHause> ... i have a patch for that :p
21:59:46  <Eddi|zuHause> (modulo drawing)
21:59:48  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Diagonal roads, too, while you're at it? :P
21:59:50  <andythenorth> I tested it :P
21:59:54  <andythenorth> I could have drawn stuff
21:59:56  * FLHerne isn't serious
22:00:00  <andythenorth> good
22:00:05  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: those are unpossible
22:00:13  <andythenorth> all roads owned by deity?
22:00:29  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: like canals used to be?
22:00:31  <drac_boy> flherne I think one of the big problem was the pathfinder being broken at trying to "see" the 2-tiles crossing
22:00:47  <andythenorth> you want to modify a road, fill out a form, in triplicate
22:00:52  <drac_boy> I could be wrong tho but I thought thats what I noticed on the forum
22:00:53  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Just rewrite the entire game to deunpossibleise it :P
22:00:54  <andythenorth> deity will run consultation with other players
22:01:01  * FLHerne *really* isn't serious
22:01:07  <andythenorth> if players agree, road change is approved by deity planning committee :P
22:01:24  <FLHerne> ArkRoyal: PM
22:02:03  <Pikka> single owner, single layer roads ftw! :D
22:02:09  <andythenorth> :)
22:02:26  <Pikka> it's simple for both devs and players!
22:02:47  *** chester_ [] has joined #openttd
22:03:10  <Pikka> if some jerk is removing the tram tracks from the one tile of road he owns on your route, he sucks, stop playing with him!
22:03:27  <andythenorth> you mean like those idiots who bulldoze rivers?
22:03:31  <Pikka> (and it's not like people can't do similar things already, eg removing a piece of road and buying the tile)
22:03:33  <Pikka> exactly!
22:03:34  <andythenorth> and destory buses?
22:03:37  <Pikka> yes!
22:04:07  <Pikka> they were silly buses anyway :)
22:04:07  * andythenorth likes simple
22:04:08  <frosch123> what about the guy who builds tram on all your roads to make you pay maintenance? :p
22:04:10  <andythenorth> fits my brain
22:04:16  <Pikka> stop playing with him too, frosch123
22:04:16  <andythenorth> that guy is witty
22:04:23  <andythenorth> he is amusingly trolling you
22:04:30  <Pikka> yes
22:04:30  <andythenorth> trolling is funny
22:04:46  <andythenorth> there is an insufficiency of funny trolling in ttd
22:05:03  <andythenorth> the depot AI train killing bug was one of the funnier things in TTD
22:05:34  <Pikka> what about the guy who builds two truck stops near an industry you serve and just sends trucks back and forth between them, getting great station ratings and denying you any cargo? :)
22:05:49  <andythenorth> or leaves a boat at SpComb's iron mine?
22:06:51  <andythenorth> or takes over my company and builds 37 biplanes
22:06:55  <Pikka> :]
22:07:29  <andythenorth> what happened to my castle anyway?
22:07:33  <Pikka> and what about the 99.9% of openttd players who either play only single player, or play with no grfs?
22:07:33  <andythenorth> did I screenshot it?
22:07:40  <Pikka> I have various savegames
22:07:48  <Pikka> then we all updated our nightlies to play on the other server
22:07:48  <andythenorth> phew
22:07:53  <andythenorth> I failed to screenshot :(
22:08:09  <Pikka> the server was still up last night, 2011 or so
22:08:21  <Pikka> but I couldn't be bothered downgrading to connect :)
22:08:34  <peter1138> oh yeah
22:08:35  <andythenorth> herp
22:08:36  <peter1138> i should probably upgrade it
22:08:39  <andythenorth> huws winning?
22:08:44  <andythenorth> me!
22:08:45  <Pikka> scuddles
22:08:57  <andythenorth> and pikkarer
22:09:08  <andythenorth> scuddles is winning at losing
22:09:15  <andythenorth> oh
22:09:18  <andythenorth> my castle is gone :P
22:09:23  <andythenorth> must be the passage of time
22:09:27  <andythenorth> no castle lasts for ever
22:09:37  <peter1138> you removed it
22:09:39  <peter1138> so...
22:09:42  <andythenorth> who me?
22:09:46  <andythenorth> shocking accusation
22:10:52  <andythenorth> herp
22:11:06  <andythenorth> with roadtypes, I could have had better cannons
22:11:09  <andythenorth> moveable
22:11:36  <andythenorth> and barrage ballons on a tether
22:11:36  <Pikka> yes
22:12:18  <Pikka> pew pew
22:12:19  <andythenorth> who will whine if trams go?
22:12:29  <Pikka> nobody
22:12:33  <drac_boy> me because how do I move freights anymore?
22:12:48  <Terkhen> why do they need to go? :P
22:12:57  <andythenorth> because cleaning away things is cathartic
22:12:59  <andythenorth> and pleasing
22:13:05  <Pikka> heqs and egrvts will be updated to the new spec within a week
22:13:31  <andythenorth> the important people don't have tram sets, right?
22:13:59  <Pikka> openttd will ship with a basic tram+road roadtype and all tram tracks in old games will be magically converted or something! :D
22:14:09  <andythenorth> or exploded
22:14:14  <Pikka> or perhaps just convert all tram tracks to roads
22:14:24  <Pikka> since old trams won't have a roadtype, they'll run on normal roads just fine
22:14:34  <andythenorth> opening message: trams are now banned, thank you for travelling with us
22:15:00  <Pikka> afaia the requirement is that old savegames load, not that everything in old savegames still acts the same way? ;)
22:15:23  <FLHerne> Pikka: What happens to these kinds of construction with one roadtype layer?
22:15:41  <FLHerne> Especially the lower one is quite common in grid-like cities
22:15:52  <Pikka> the bits which are road are road
22:16:04  <andythenorth> 503 happens
22:16:05  <Pikka> the bits which are tramtrack + road are tramtrack&road
22:16:12  <Pikka> the bits which are just tramtrack are just tramtrack
22:16:19  <Pikka> I don't see the problem
22:16:27  <andythenorth> +1
22:16:54  <FLHerne> Pikka: So it ends up with extraneous tramtrack graphics where a straight tramtrack crosses a road junction?
22:17:04  <Pikka> no, it doesn't
22:17:09  <andythenorth> and the bits which could tramtrack+trails+road+christmaslights+animateddogwalkingtrail+plinkyplonk are all fine
22:17:13  <Pikka> but that's for the grf, not the spec
22:17:27  <Pikka> the spec provides the necessary vars for the grf to make junctions look pretty
22:17:30  <andythenorth> grf detects type on neighbouring tile, figures out what to do
22:17:41  <andythenorth> if you mix too many types, that's idiocy
22:17:42  <FLHerne> For example, if a straight tramtrack crosses a straight road at 90 degrees, it would display crossroad graphics for both road and rail?
22:17:46  <Pikka> also, if you're worried about pretty looking junctions
22:17:47  <andythenorth> no
22:17:48  <FLHerne> Ah, ninjad :P
22:17:55  <Pikka> why are you limiting your concern to tram tracks?
22:18:23  <andythenorth> also, since when did anything fun ever get done in OpenTTD by listening to players?
22:18:24  <Pikka> why not also be concerned about dirt tracks intersecting with highways?  should there be a highway stub?
22:18:30  <FLHerne> Pikka: Because I have a *lot* of them in my current game (and no overhead monorails because the two can't coexist yet) :P
22:18:33  <andythenorth> it's not like there's a community approval process :P
22:18:44  <andythenorth> if we want that, I'll pay for fucking getsatisfaction
22:18:53  <andythenorth> or something
22:18:57  <FLHerne> Pikka: I'd worry about the dirt roads if my games had any in ;-)
22:19:16  <andythenorth> oops
22:19:19  <andythenorth> sweary, sorry
22:19:29  <FLHerne> Although actually, a highway stub would probably look more sensible there :P
22:20:06  <Pikka> FLHerne, and the reason your games don't have dirt roads is because some charlies are confusing the introduction of roadtypes by talking about crap like overhead monorails and subways
22:20:34  *** ArkRoyal [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
22:20:41  <FLHerne> Pikka: Even without the overhead monorails, I still care about trams. Trams are sensible :P
22:20:56  <andythenorth> it's groundhog day
22:21:01  <Pikka> and like I said, there's no issue with trams, so next.
22:21:05  <andythenorth> which one of is doing the weather?
22:21:14  <Pikka> prince charles, andythenorth
22:21:16  <Terkhen> trams are confusing sometimes :P
22:21:36  <Pikka> single-owner single-layer roads will make them less confusing!
22:22:00  <andythenorth> Pikka: can I connect to your road+tram tile?
22:22:20  <Pikka> why not, andythenorth?
22:22:26  <andythenorth> and run my trams on your tiles?
22:22:32  <Pikka> of course you can
22:22:35  <Pikka> as you can now
22:22:48  <andythenorth> herp, I can do that now with tram track? :o
22:22:50  <FLHerne> ?
22:23:09  <andythenorth> does scuddles have trams :P
22:23:11  <andythenorth> let's see
22:23:14  <Pikka> what does this mean, FLHerne?
22:23:55  <FLHerne> One roadtype-per-tile would turn the upper crossing into the lower?
22:23:59  <Pikka> no
22:24:08  <andythenorth> ha ha
22:24:08  <Pikka> well
22:24:15  <FLHerne> Unless you did checking for neighbours, in which case the parallel roads would break?
22:24:17  <andythenorth> that's a great griefing opportunity
22:24:19  <Pikka> logically it would turn the upper crossing into the lower
22:24:25  <andythenorth> I can break scuddles tram routes trivially
22:24:31  <Pikka> graphically, if you had a good grf, it would turn the lower crossing into the upper
22:24:50  * andythenorth breaks scuddles tram routes
22:25:02  <Pikka> the parallel roads would not break because the grf detection is not adding road bits
22:25:12  <Pikka> it's simply deciding how to draw those road bits
22:25:27  * FLHerne thinks about that for a moment
22:25:29  <andythenorth> grief 1: simply extend the turn around loop to a non-turnaround loop; stuck trams
22:25:54  <andythenorth> 2: extend it miles out into the countryside
22:25:55  <Pikka> it will not add connections that don't exist, FLHerne, it will simply decide how to draw those connections (as roads, tramtracks, both, needlenardlenoo)
22:25:58  <Pikka> yes andy
22:26:07  <andythenorth> 3. build a tram, park it on other player's tracks
22:26:11  <andythenorth> awesome
22:26:11  <FLHerne> Ooh, clever :-)
22:26:18  <FLHerne> That makes sense now :-)
22:26:19  <Pikka> this is my point, we should not worry about the new spec being griefable because the current spec is no better
22:26:36  <Pikka> and nor should it be
22:27:24  <andythenorth> mostly only play with scuddles
22:27:27  <andythenorth> solves griefing
22:28:20  <Pikka> yes
22:28:31  <peter1138> but!
22:28:39  <peter1138> what about a tram line cross two parallel roads!
22:28:40  <andythenorth> scuddles griefs himself :
22:29:03  <Pikka> then there will be a road connection, peter!  oh noes!
22:29:20  <peter1138> disgusting
22:29:31  <andythenorth> write to your MP
22:29:35  <andythenorth> NewMPs
22:29:50  <andythenorth> NewGRFParliaments
22:30:02  <Pikka> tai town halls D;
22:30:14  <andythenorth> do politics
22:30:17  <andythenorth> like simcity
22:30:27  <andythenorth> best thing about simcity (on the SNES)
22:30:32  <andythenorth> election time!
22:30:49  <peter1138> static inline RoadBits GetOtherRoadBits(TileIndex t, RoadType rt)
22:30:57  <peter1138> yeah that'll make sense
22:32:54  <andythenorth> I'll start preparing these then ;)
22:33:06  <Pikka> yay
22:33:26  <peter1138> :S
22:34:21  <FLHerne> Electric mining trucks? :o
22:34:30  <peter1138> ok, erm
22:34:40  <peter1138> it is actually possible to give road + trams second owners
22:35:22  <andythenorth>
22:35:27  <Rubidium> but don't we need that space for CBH?
22:35:43  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Your steam trams will look better, too :-)
22:35:53  <Rubidium> like a level road crossing with road and tram on a bridge head: four owners per tile jackpot ;)
22:38:18  <andythenorth> herm
22:38:25  <andythenorth> just give each player their own map array
22:38:30  <andythenorth> one owner on every tile :P
22:43:28  <Pikka> andythenorth: it would be good for RVs if the exhaust could come from somewhere other than the roof, too
22:43:44  <Pikka> fine for big trucks, not so much for buses
22:43:53  <andythenorth> gee, and do you want the moon on a stick too?
22:44:17  <andythenorth> that's really a request too far
22:44:18  <andythenorth> smoke
22:44:26  <andythenorth> but where is moon?  In TTD?
22:44:49  <andythenorth> NewGRFCelestialBodies
22:45:07  <Pikka> up and to the right, innit
22:45:14  <andythenorth> behind the sun?
22:45:17  <andythenorth> bit weird
22:45:19  <Pikka> yes
22:45:23  <Pikka> unless you're MB
22:45:36  <andythenorth> or TTRS
22:45:41  <Pikka> or our george
22:45:43  <Pikka> yes
22:45:46  <Pikka> or anyone really
22:45:47  <andythenorth> or opengfx
22:45:59  <andythenorth> anyone who is wrong :P
22:46:26  <andythenorth> some of FISH is still wrong
22:46:43  <andythenorth> also frosch123 we had a sane discussion about newgrf effect vehicles recently o_O
22:47:39  <frosch123> yeah, i even wrote a spec yesterday/today
22:47:46  <andythenorth> \o/
22:47:57  <frosch123> but it has some silly parts i don't like :p
22:48:24  <andythenorth> delete them
22:48:44  <frosch123> yeah, also my conclusion :p
22:48:57  <frosch123> they are easy to implement whatever they may look like
22:48:58  <andythenorth> rest of it is pretty good eh?
22:49:03  <frosch123> so i can do the more interesting parts first
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22:49:28  <andythenorth> herm
22:49:35  <andythenorth> roadtypes must be buildable on water!
22:49:44  <andythenorth> how many tile bits is that?
22:49:55  <frosch123> yeah, just extent railtypes to 256
22:50:02  <frosch123> and make them cover road and water ways too :p
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22:52:15  <peter1138> 256 railtypes? o_O
22:52:15  <andythenorth> without that, how do we do wuppertal?
22:52:26  <andythenorth> is wuppertal a tram? :P
22:53:53  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Of course.:P    I was going on about overhead monorails earlier, but that annoyed Pikka...
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22:54:28  <frosch123> peter1138: ofc. i am sure someone wants a universal track type which can handle maglev, trolley busses and ships
22:54:38  <frosch123> for easier transport type transitions in late game
22:54:58  <frosch123> it's quite tedious to replace ship routes with maglev otherwise
22:55:07  <peter1138> trakc types now? heh
22:55:21  <andythenorth> frosch123: you didn't even mention hovercraft :(
22:55:29  <andythenorth> remember your hovercraft patch?
22:55:39  <frosch123> sure :p
22:55:41  <peter1138> can they go up mountains
22:56:08  <frosch123> hovercraft patch made all tiles traversable for ships
22:56:22  <frosch123> but it crashed when ships entered house or industry tiles
22:56:29  <andythenorth> valid IMO
22:56:30  <frosch123> because gettileowner asserted or so
22:58:13  <andythenorth> looked awesome :P
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23:02:45  <andythenorth> hrm, sleepy times?
23:04:15  <peter1138> compiles up to r* so far :p
23:04:20  <Terkhen> good night
23:07:27  <andythenorth> bye
23:07:28  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
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23:39:53  <peter1138> Pikka, this can't be done
23:39:59  <Pikka> why not?
23:40:11  <peter1138> because it basically rips out loads and loads of code
23:40:22  <Pikka> which is bad?
23:40:26  <peter1138> yeah
23:40:28  <peter1138> someone had to write that
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23:40:53  <Pikka> they'll get over it
23:41:56  <peter1138> /* Multiple owners */
23:42:03  <peter1138> /* One to rule them all */
23:42:04  <peter1138> ...
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23:42:24  <glx> all your base are belong to us
23:43:28  <Pikka> trams are mostly the fault of you, me and stevenh, aren't they peter?
23:45:20  <peter1138> not me
23:45:34  <Pikka> who brought them in to openttd then?
23:49:34  <peter1138> i wish i knew
23:49:43  <peter1138> -Add: support for Action 0 Road vehicles, property 1C, bit 0.
23:51:26  <frosch123> rb
23:52:52  <peter1138> eah
23:52:53  <peter1138> +y
23:53:06  <peter1138> putting too much work into something i don't believe in :p
23:53:34  <glx> oh you don't have a patch for that ? ;)
23:56:27  <frosch123> night
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