Log for #openttd on 8th January 2013:
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00:15:52  <drac_boy> looks like theres little if any english information for indian steam after all >_<  oh well I've been working off the russia and german narrow gauge roosters anyway
00:27:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i would imagine india mostly imported british engines
00:33:07  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: are you trying to rival the 2ccset for number of included engines? :p
00:34:18  <V453000> :(
00:39:16  <drac_boy> heh V453000 why windows? :P
00:39:27  <V453000> because adobe
00:39:55  <V453000> windows because windows, but assertion error is evul :(
00:40:03  <drac_boy> eddi nope, just more or less averaging different specs (believe it or not but I found some of the RhB and SAR electrics to be similar enough to only need one loco for both)
00:41:46  <drac_boy> british engine for metre gauge, that rather sounds interesting
00:46:54  <V453000> assertion error - prepare word should have something to do with strings?
00:47:14  <V453000> cause I feel like the only thing I actually changed is switch which changes sprites
00:47:15  <V453000> :d
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00:49:07  <V453000> ok
00:49:12  <V453000> I found it :D
00:49:28  <V453000> if random switch returns 80000 for power, it throws that error
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00:50:47  <drac_boy> heh
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00:57:26  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: "word" is a 16-bit value, nothing to do with strings
00:57:49  <V453000> hm :)
00:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you should prepare a code example triggering this, and send it in as a bug reports, because users shouldn't be able to trigger asserts
00:59:06  <V453000> I already did :)
01:10:26  <Pikka> V453000, the maximum value you can return in a callback is 32767
01:10:37  <V453000> I know
01:10:46  <V453000> I just did a typo of 80000 instead of 8000
01:10:50  <Pikka> I see :)
01:10:54  <V453000> but it shouldnt make nmlc internal error :)
01:11:08  <Pikka> silly nmlc
01:12:14  <Eddi|zuHause>
01:13:15  <Pikka> silly Eddi
01:13:44  <V453000> :d
01:14:17  <drac_boy> heh heh
01:16:08  <V453000> who played this? :D
01:16:57  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't ring a bell
01:17:56  <V453000> what? :D
01:17:58  <V453000> :(
01:18:18  <V453000> a logic adventure game with various puzzles made all in plastic world
01:18:34  <V453000> Neverhood
01:18:49  <V453000> :)
01:19:56  <Eddi|zuHause> must be from a time where i didn't have any new games (because of old computer)
01:20:33  <Eddi|zuHause> technically my computer was already too slow for TT
01:20:40  <V453000> it is all recorded animation of the plastic stuff, idk what that required :D
01:21:01  <V453000> either way, amazing game I even played it about a year ago
01:21:34  <V453000> 1996
01:22:36  <Eddi|zuHause> must be of the monkey island 3 era, where adventures got more and more comic-y
01:23:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess that started with Day of the Tentacle
01:23:21  <Eddi|zuHause> which was basically the last adventure i played
01:23:41  <Eddi|zuHause> the last "new" one
01:28:33  <V453000> represents the game :D
01:28:36  <V453000> just amazing
01:35:22  <NGC3982> I always loved Neverhood.
01:44:42  <drac_boy> eddi btw did you know even russia exported their locomotives as well? :)
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01:59:07  <Eddi|zuHause> why wouldn't they?
02:00:12  <Flygon> Because they have an insane massive loading and axle gauge
02:00:27  <Flygon> One of the only countries to come to mind to 1-up the USA
02:02:32  <Eddi|zuHause> they could build smaller engines, you know
02:03:03  <Eddi|zuHause> russian-built diesel engines run in half of europe today
02:07:01  <Flygon> Russia has a concept of small?
02:07:33  <Flygon> Even then, standard European loading and axle gauges tend to be massive in UK and Victoria :P
02:08:15  <Flygon> Biggst non-articulated loco in Australia. And you get European and Russian ones that average that size :B
02:10:48  <Eddi|zuHause> well, they're still "big" as in the biggest diesel engines of that time, but small enough to fit in the usual european loading gauge and axle weight classes :p
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02:20:02  <Flygon> Eddi, I dunno about you
02:20:15  <Flygon> But here, 27-30 tonnes an axle isn't usual :P
02:20:35  <Flygon> Best you ever got here is 23 tonnes... and that's the one-off locomotive I just posted
02:20:42  <Flygon> Usually it's 17 tonnes :P
02:24:07  <drac_boy> eddi this is just a quick example but its a TU7
02:24:13  <drac_boy> not that heavy in first place
02:24:31  <drac_boy> (yeah don't ask me why, I'm not sure what the photographer is doing with that dog there!)
02:26:12  <drac_boy> flygon I think this matches your picture heh heh
02:27:00  <drac_boy> if you're asking where the smokestack is .. its a very short cap just behind the low-profile box on front .. almost pushing the tunnel gauges there what with the big boiler they wanted
02:27:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: it's not about how heavy the engine is, but how many axles you put underneath it :p
02:28:02  <drac_boy> eddi mm thats why the general purpose diesel of japan was the DD15 .. it could weight over four axles for maximum workings or over six axles (the middle two being idlers) for light branch duty
02:29:39  <drac_boy> which of I have pretty much shown flygon this one but what do you think of how ready it is to clear snow anywhere anytime? heh
02:29:51  <drac_boy> even has extra lights for visibility :P
02:35:05  <drac_boy> eddi if you want to talk about axles...try THIS then heh heh  (footnote: they were built with fewer crossmounted engines than originally designed on blueprint for tho)
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04:06:27  <Flygon> When dracco is on
04:06:32  <Flygon> Remind me to bring up the H-class
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05:49:30  <Supercheese> Jeez, this .nml file is bloating, it's too bad the preprocessor hates me
05:49:53  <Supercheese> I want to separate and #include, but that somehow screws up the .grf -_-
05:50:29  <Supercheese> Think the preprocessor hates block comments or something
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06:50:11  <kamnet> Good morning. I'm setting up a CNet account to manage OpenTTD release information. They require that programs which can be installed on multiple OSes be listed separately. Would it be preferred to list each one as "OpenTTD x.x.x for <platform>", or just "OpenTTD x.x.x" ?
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06:59:21  <peter1138> the latter
07:00:00  <peter1138> not that i see the point
07:00:05  <peter1138> in fact i'd rather you didn't
07:00:18  <kamnet> Didn't what?
07:00:44  <peter1138> it would suck if people search for openttd and came up with cnet
07:01:20  <kamnet> They already can.
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07:02:32  <peter1138> Price: Free
07:02:36  <peter1138> yeah
07:02:50  <kamnet> If you search for "OpenTTD" on Google, there are several stores & distribution sites that already list the game
07:03:42  <peter1138> if you search for openttd on google, we're first. you can download directly from there
07:03:47  <peter1138> so why bother with cnet etc etc
07:04:09  <peter1138> cnet is that place that pops up when you're trying to find the real website
07:04:09  <kamnet> Because those are large communities of users who may not know of the game.
07:05:21  <peter1138> people using cnet downloads are in a community?
07:05:35  <kamnet> Of course they are.
07:05:41  <Supercheese> Can't you set it up so that the page on cnet points to the OTTD webpage?
07:05:55  <Supercheese> "Go to external site for download" etc
07:05:57  <kamnet> It does, Supercheese.
07:06:33  <kamnet> You can either pay CNet to host the file for you, or you can link to your own download location.
07:06:35  <Supercheese> currently it downloads from cnet
07:07:41  <kamnet> CNet acts as a middle man. The file can be downloaded from your server, they route it through the download manager on their site for tracking information and to scan your files for viruses and malware.
07:08:00  <Supercheese> Interesting
07:08:47  <peter1138> whatever it is, it's a crock of shit
07:08:59  <peter1138> just linking to the download without anything like, say, license information
07:10:12  <kamnet> We can include that information.
07:11:16  <Supercheese> Who's currently responsible for the OpenTTD cnet entries?
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07:11:59  <kamnet> Good question, and I could not find an answer for that. I don't like that answer, because it puts the control of information outside of the hands of the developers.
07:12:18  <Supercheese> indeed
07:13:18  <kamnet> That's why I volunteered to take up this task of editing the information on these various sites. At the very least, the developers and members of the OpenTTD community know who *I* am, and have a way to contact somebody if information needs to be changed or updated.
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08:01:37  <Supercheese> Hmm, some users that post regularly on the forums are not IRC regulars, it seems
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08:25:01  <Celestar> morning
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08:28:05  <Flygon> Menta
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08:33:42  <planetmaker> moin
08:34:19  <Celestar> whoop
08:34:30  <blathijs> Morning!
08:35:00  <Celestar> wooot?
08:37:21  <Celestar> blathijs: how ya been?
08:38:09  <blathijs> Celestar: Busy :-)
08:38:17  <blathijs> Actually did some OpenTTD coding again last week :-D
08:38:21  <dihedral> good morning
08:38:48  <blathijs> Trying to polish support for (ancient) 8bpp systems again :-)
08:40:02  <blathijs> Got a bugreport from some SPARC system displaying wrong colors. In the end, I don't think I actually managed to reproduce the reported problem, but I was so deep into SDL/X11 palette stuff that I could just as well do something useful with that new knowledge ;-p
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08:45:24  <__ln__> a career as an X11 palette consultant
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08:55:14  <Celestar> blathijs: :D
08:56:02  <blathijs> __ln__: Heh, I do think that the hours spent investigating this stuff, weren't the best spent hours ever...
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09:07:56  <Supercheese> 'night
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09:16:28  <peter1138> yeah, 8bpp displays are kinda rare now
09:26:09  <blathijs> peter1138: I actually had to switch back to using the vesa driver on my laptop for testing, the intel driver didn't work in 8bpp anymore (probably been years since someone actually tested that ;-p)
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09:29:30  <peter1138> :-)
09:29:42  <Celestar> who needs 3bpp
09:29:43  <Celestar> erm
09:29:44  <Celestar> 8
09:29:55  <blathijs> Yeah, 8-color displays!
09:29:57  <Celestar> hm... no alpha channel in 32bpp?
09:30:00  <peter1138> back in my day we had 1, 2 and 4bpp
09:30:12  <blathijs> Celestar: This Sparc Ultra1 here behind me needs 8bp :-)
09:30:16  <Celestar> :P
09:30:21  <Celestar> does it still WORK?
09:30:28  <blathijs> Celestar: I think 32bpp is really 24bpp plus alpha
09:30:40  <Celestar> normally it is
09:30:41  <Celestar> :P
09:30:48  <Celestar> 128bpp :P
09:30:56  <Celestar> with all channels as 32 bit floats
09:30:56  <blathijs> Celestar: I had to replace the RTC chip, whose battery had depleted, but other than that it still works (slowly)
09:31:11  <Flygon> Real men use sprites that use NTSC colourspace palette's
09:31:25  <Flygon> Because that totally worked for the NES
09:31:29  <Flygon> Who needs yellow? :B
09:31:35  <peter1138> PAL, dearest
09:31:39  <Celestar> NTSC has colors?
09:31:46  <peter1138> Never Twice the Same Colour
09:31:49  <Celestar> yeah.
09:31:58  <Celestar> worst TV standard EVER.
09:32:10  <blathijs> We should add a Hercules graphics driver in OpenTTD! :-)
09:32:22  <Celestar> well DVB-T sucks some donkey balls too
09:32:22  <Flygon> The NES's that had RGB PPU's are the best :3
09:33:00  <valhallasw> Celestar: also the first color standard, so it would have been pretty stupid if PAL and SECAM had sucked as much
09:33:08  <valhallasw> (first of the three, at least)
09:33:31  <peter1138> DVB's overly compressed :(
09:34:14  <Flygon> Over-the-air TV is a farce
09:34:19  <Celestar> it's not compressed. it's ... damaged beyond repair.
09:34:24  <Flygon> Fiber Optic television plzkthx
09:34:30  <peter1138> analogue tv never looked as based
09:34:31  <peter1138> er
09:34:33  <peter1138> as bad
09:34:45  <Celestar> as DVB-T? no. -C and -S are pretty ok
09:34:45  <Flygon> Good analogue TV can look better than DVB, I agree
09:34:48  <Celestar> -S2 rocks.
09:34:50  <peter1138> most people got good enough signals not to have bad noise
09:34:51  <Flygon> Colourspace issues are always an issue, though
09:35:18  <Flygon> Heck, I've had peeps think I'm on digital TV
09:35:24  <Flygon> When my CRT's tuned to analogue
09:35:31  <Flygon> Digital looks WORSE
09:35:55  <Flygon> Due to the tuner processing the heck out of the video for 576i Composhit >_>
09:36:08  <Flygon> I'd have used S-Video... but the tuner lacks it @_@
09:36:09  <peter1138> i just get snow when it's on analogue
09:36:20  <Flygon> And I need to get my CRT modified for SCART/Component...
09:36:23  <peter1138> as there's no analogue tv transmission over here any more
09:36:28  <Flygon> Australia has analogue still. USA doesn't
09:36:43  <Flygon> It cuts off by 2013 ending
09:36:48  <Celestar> get a proper DVB-S2 and be happy :P
09:37:05  <Flygon> I'm unhappy because it's Composite
09:37:13  <Flygon> Not because of the signal
09:37:15  <peter1138> i refuse to pay for a satellite subscription
09:37:27  <Flygon> Screw satellite
09:37:31  <Celestar> you don't have to pay :P
09:37:32  <Flygon> Move to Australia around 2016
09:37:37  <Flygon> Get Fiber Optic TV :D
09:38:02  <Celestar> screw TV really. Just use TCP/IP :P
09:38:12  <Flygon> That's basically Fiber Optic TV :P
09:38:20  <blathijs> Fiber Optic TV <-- Do they put a big beamer at one end of the fiber and you point the other end at your wall?
09:38:51  <Flygon> blathijs: It's a pointlessly marketing style word for Cable TV
09:39:40  <blathijs> Flygon: In the sense that they put up fiber up to the cable head end and then use regular coaxial cable with DVB-C for the last part?
09:39:51  * Flygon shrug
09:39:57  <Flygon> I don't know
09:40:18  <blathijs> In .nl we actually have TV over fibre, where there's just some TCP/IP thing running over a fiber to the home connection
09:40:21  <Flygon> I was lead to believe that ISP's here would bundle it with the NBN plans as an incentive over other ISP's
09:40:35  <Flygon> And you use a tuner hooked up via ethernet or Wi-Fi to the router
09:41:10  <Flygon> Since 20-40mbits via Wireless should be enough for a decent multimedia stream
09:41:39  <blathijs> Flygon: Yeah, that's what they do here
09:41:54  <Flygon> Go figure :)
09:42:14  <Flygon> I can't wait til it comes out here
09:42:23  <blathijs> Flygon: Though only on one of the big fibre networks, the other uses a DVB-C encoder in the router/modem so you can still connect your TV without a separate tuner
09:42:27  <Flygon> All I can get currently is ADSL2+, or 100/2 Coax Cable with Cable TV
09:42:34  <Flygon> The latter is outragiously expensive
09:43:00  <Flygon> Ah, so it hooks up to the TV's antenna jack?
09:43:12  <blathijs> Flygon: Yup
09:43:17  <Flygon> That is a worthless load of crap to me :P
09:43:30  <Flygon> My TV lacks a digital tuner, haha-
09:43:31  <Flygon> Oh
09:43:38  <Flygon> I am a dimwit. I can use an external tuner.
09:44:03  <blathijs> Flygon: It removes the need for a separate tuner if you have a digitial tuner in the TV, and it allows re-using existing coaxial cabling
09:44:05  <Flygon> My grave will say "Died being shortsighted"
09:44:23  <Flygon> Clearly not many Europeans still use CRT's
09:44:38  <Flygon> Then again, not many Australians use CRT's...
09:45:03  <peter1138> can't get rid of my crt monitor
09:45:05  <Flygon> Eh, it just seems like common sense to use an external tuner, that hooks up via ethernet or Wi-Fi
09:45:19  <Flygon> peter1138, I should photograph my room
09:45:32  <Flygon> It's the size of a small study, has 4 CRT's, and I gotta sleep in it :P
09:46:31  <Flygon> An LG Studioworks 900B monitor, a Trinitron 200GS, Phillips 107S66, and some sort of 32in Trinitron TV
09:46:50  <Flygon> The TV takes up at least 20% of my room from wall to wall
09:46:58  <Flygon> Well, 10-15%, anyway
09:47:06  <Pinkbeast> ... get rid of one of them?
09:47:22  <Flygon> Hell no
09:47:24  <Flygon> They're all good
09:48:13  <peter1138> Flygon, are you a bit of a hoarder?
09:50:33  <Flygon> Yes
09:50:51  <Flygon> Though, I've chucked out or given away things I know I will not have a use for
09:51:06  <Flygon> eg. if I got a bigger CRT (and... a bigger bedroom >_>)
09:51:19  <Flygon> I'd give away my 32in Trinitron to someone else that could use it
09:51:40  <Flygon> I despise scrapping perfectly useful items
09:56:07  <Pinkbeast> So do I, but the trouble is, there's an enormous influx of new monitors from people buying them. I'd give away my old 19" low-footprint tube, but who wants it?
09:57:09  <Flygon> Well
09:57:17  <Flygon> If you were Victorian
09:57:23  <Flygon> I'd ask for us to meet and I'd inspect it
09:57:29  <Flygon> I'd be interested in it
09:57:43  <Flygon> 19in high quality CRT monitors are reasonably useful/valuable
09:57:48  <Pinkbeast> Victoria died in 1906 so I'd be getting on a bit if I was. # yes I know what you mean
09:57:50  <Flygon> What specific model is it?
09:57:53  <Flygon> ...
09:57:56  <Flygon> Pinkbeast...
09:57:59  <Flygon> Oh
09:58:00  <Flygon> Rightyo
09:58:02  <Pinkbeast> Dunno, not at home, but it's an iyama
09:58:10  <Flygon> Never heard of it
09:58:17  <Flygon> My friend is offline
09:58:18  <peter1138> iiyama
09:58:24  <Flygon> So, can't ask him about it
09:58:34  <Flygon> Drat, you're Britis
09:58:39  <peter1138> were considered one of the best in the 90s
09:58:45  <Flygon> If you were Canadian, I'd have tried to arrange something
09:58:48  <Flygon> Ah, I see
09:58:53  <Flygon> Either way, I can't buy it :(
09:59:28  <Pinkbeast> I compromise by filling my own computers mostly with castoff bits.
09:59:45  <Flygon> I just make stuff out of whatever
10:00:01  <Flygon> So much so that I actually have a spare usable computer... except it's running on a K6-2
10:00:23  <Pinkbeast> Spare? Ha. usagi I use every day, and she's a K6-3/450
10:00:25  <Flygon> So I'll probably just turn it into a 9x based retro-game machine
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10:47:51  <peter1138> hm
11:53:36  <peter1138> o_O
11:54:49  <Eddi|zuHause> that was about what i expected... :p
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11:56:54  <peter1138> same person yeah
11:59:01  <peter1138> "Earth-sized planets 'number 17bn'"
11:59:04  <peter1138> oh really
11:59:38  <peter1138> ah it's clarified as 'in our galaxy' outside of the headline
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12:40:36  <Celestar> lol
12:40:42  <Celestar> what else did you expect? :P
13:00:06  <peter1138> accurate reporting!
13:01:00  <Celestar> lol
13:01:08  <Celestar> Media? accurate reporting?
13:01:12  <peter1138> :)
13:01:13  <Celestar> you ill? :P
13:01:29  <Celestar> hm .. any gui frontend to openttd svn?
13:02:09  <peter1138> there's trac, on
13:02:10  <michi_cc> Web or local?
13:02:12  <peter1138> but that's horrible
13:02:53  <michi_cc> Alternatively you can also have gitweb (;a=summary) or hgweb (
13:03:23  <Celestar> web.
13:03:33  *** LordPixaII is now known as Pixa
13:03:37  <Celestar> unless I install a git client for me phone :P
13:05:20  <Celestar> hm.
13:05:26  <Celestar> can you convert implicit orders into real ones?
13:05:51  <michi_cc> You can't, but it's definitely a valid feature request.
13:06:06  <Celestar> well maybe there is me entry point :P
13:07:28  <peter1138> i asked about that the other day too
13:07:37  <peter1138> shouldn't be too hard
13:08:28  <Celestar> nah
13:08:31  <Celestar> don't think so
13:13:49  <peter1138>
13:13:50  <peter1138> ^ aww
13:15:48  <Celestar> haha
13:16:02  <peter1138> oh wow
13:16:06  <Celestar> cd > cargodest
13:16:23  <peter1138> the old svn custombridgeheads branch still exists in git
13:16:29  <peter1138> yacd or cargodist?
13:16:37  <Celestar> whatever fons is working on :P
13:16:46  <peter1138> cos there's yacd too
13:16:58  <Celestar> I am not sure the old CBH works with the current map array in any way :P
13:17:18  <peter1138> don't think much has changed in that regard since then
13:17:25  <peter1138> but... it didn't work then either :p
13:17:40  <Celestar> no, not while reversing :(
13:17:50  <Celestar> lot of the other stuff worked somehow :p
13:18:12  <peter1138>
13:18:14  <peter1138>
13:18:19  <peter1138> from my old ancient original stuff
13:18:48  <Celestar> hm.
13:18:55  <Celestar> the list of feature requests is LONG.
13:18:58  <Celestar> friggen long
13:19:07  <peter1138> which is pre-tron-bridges
13:19:37  <Celestar> I was wondering whether to write unittests for the GTTS functions before the next attempt of CBH :P
13:20:53  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: is there a list of engines for the CETS?
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13:26:13  <Celestar> peter1138: cargodist and yacd? who is working on yacd?
13:26:18  <peter1138> michi_cc
13:28:26  <michi_cc> Celestar: Don't wonder too long, a lot might change in the future:
13:28:39  <NGC3982> Afternoon
13:28:54  <Celestar> michi_cc: hm?
13:30:31  <peter1138> monorail & normal rail on the same tile
13:30:36  <peter1138> subtle
13:31:36  <michi_cc> And some more if you carefully watch the snow.
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13:33:11  <V453000> peter1138: universal rail ftw? :p
13:33:30  <Eddi|zuHause> weren't we already at this point half a year ago?
13:33:33  <Celestar> peter1138: yeah I see that but does that have to do with me? :P
13:34:08  <peter1138> ?
13:34:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: yes, at
13:34:47  <Celestar> thank you
13:34:51  <peter1138> google docs :S
13:35:30  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: you have an error in your data :P
13:35:40  <Celestar> DB BR 403 :P
13:35:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i certainly do ;)
13:35:51  <Celestar> Top Speed should be 330km/h
13:35:53  <Celestar> :P
13:36:17  <peter1138> which 403?
13:36:32  <Celestar> lines 564, 565, 566
13:36:42  <peter1138>
13:36:46  <peter1138>
13:36:54  <Celestar> the 1997 one :P
13:37:04  <peter1138> i can't open the document so i couldn't tell :p
13:37:48  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure who put that number in there, i currently don't have the time to review it
13:38:07  <Celestar> :)
13:38:10  <Celestar> just noticed :P
13:38:42  <Eddi|zuHause> oberhÃŒmer did a lot of screwing with it, and it's hard to review entire-table-changes
13:39:22  <Celestar> well.
13:39:26  <Eddi|zuHause> line-based diffs don't handle 2-dimensional tables very well
13:39:45  <Celestar> yeah
13:39:54  <Celestar> bah
13:39:56  <Celestar> finally
13:40:01  <Celestar> Celestar 1, Jenkins 0
13:40:14  <Eddi|zuHause> things like "take the non-german stuff out temporarily" [and re-order the table at the same time]
13:40:27  <peter1138> urgh
13:45:27  <peter1138> 6music playing the new bowie track a lot :p
13:46:20  <NGC3982> Bowie has made new music?
13:46:57  <Kjetil> didn't he just publish some old stuff ?
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13:58:21  <MNIM> huh
13:58:23  <MNIM>
13:58:45  <MNIM> interesting design for a 130kmh train.
13:59:58  <Celestar> goddamnit why is Jenkins that stupid
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14:05:04  <Celestar> oopw
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14:06:04  <blathijs> oopw?
14:06:18  <Celestar> typo in oops :P
14:06:55  <blathijs> oops :-)
14:09:58  <Eddi|zuHause> so what the hell drove me in selecting recursion theory and fractals as exam topic? :p
14:11:25  <blathijs> Recursion is awesome :-)
14:12:24  <Eddi|zuHause> "Theorem of Rice: No non-trivial property of partial-recursive functions is decidable"
14:13:45  <kamnet> Good morning
14:15:50  <Eddi|zuHause> this script is horrible... it uses random function names like K and Gamma and then defines them two pages later...
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14:26:41  <Kjetil> Sounds like mathematical functions
14:26:42  <Stimrol> hello, I see in docs that OpenTTD uses UTF-8 buy why do I only see question marks if for example another players write in russian?
14:26:59  <Stimrol> but*
14:29:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Stimrol: your font doesn't contain the characters
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14:29:21  <Eddi|zuHause> (e.g. the default sprite font)
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14:31:19  <Stimrol> my font settings in the openttd.cfg are all empty
14:31:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Stimrol: openttd only uses a system font as fallback if your language contains missing characters itself. things that happen ingame (like signs or chat) do not trigger that fallback
14:32:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Stimrol: you can manually enter font names in the .cfg to use system fonts
14:32:27  <Stimrol> is it thahoma witch is the recommended one?
14:32:53  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no "recommended" one as whatever we could recommend, won't be there on some systems
14:33:04  <Eddi|zuHause> tahoma bold possibly
14:33:29  <Eddi|zuHause> small font sizes may be problematic
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14:33:55  <Stimrol> is it the mono_font setting or all of them I should change
14:34:16  <Eddi|zuHause> normal font, if you worry about signs and chat
14:34:24  <Eddi|zuHause> mono font is used for readme etc.
14:34:36  <Eddi|zuHause> large font is for newspapers
14:34:42  <Stimrol> thanks
14:34:45  <Eddi|zuHause> small font is for tiny numbers or when you zoom out
14:35:09  <Stimrol> normal is probably the medium font settings
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14:38:04  <kamnet> Downloading a Russian NewGRF font would help?
14:40:40  <Stimrol> Just figured this out recently, but I have my server connected to irc so I can read it there and ask mister google for some help
14:40:54  <Stimrol> as in google translate
14:47:02  <Eddi|zuHause> "Theorem: there are simple sets"
14:47:48  <Eddi|zuHause> DUH!
14:48:39  <Eddi|zuHause> "A subset |N is simple, if A is recursively enumerable and |N\A is immune"
14:49:14  <Eddi|zuHause> "A is immune if A is infinite, but no infinite subset of A is recursively enumerable"
15:19:56  <peter1138> russian newgrf font :S
15:20:22  <peter1138> i hope that's not pre-utf8
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15:37:33  <Celestar> hm.
15:37:37  <Celestar> no font adjustment GUI?
15:37:38  <Celestar> :P
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15:39:27  <Celestar> Jesus H. Christ
15:39:41  <peter1138> what?
15:40:05  <Celestar> jCxGender.requestFocus(); // will not work
15:40:14  <Celestar> ... what's the point of the line then?
15:44:25  <dihedral> Celestar, o/
15:44:35  <Celestar> dihedral: :)
15:46:03  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone remembers that comment "doesn't work" which was commented by "WHAT doesn't work?" in the openttd code? :p
15:46:09  <Celestar> and why exactly do I have this in the code?
15:46:11  <Celestar> Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit().beep();
15:46:19  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yes :-)
15:49:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: reminds me of the times where you could print the beep character and the printer beeped :)
15:51:00  <Eddi|zuHause> "We take the function Phi which we defined in section 3" -- no we didn't define it in section 3, we just said there exists a function...
15:52:22  <peter1138> Date:   Wed Jun 1 17:45:09 2011 +0000
15:52:27  <peter1138> hmm, my git checkout is a bit old
15:55:08  <Celestar> lmao
15:55:10  <Celestar> ..
15:55:11  <Celestar> try { idx_2 += 1;
15:55:12  <Celestar> } catch
15:55:27  <Celestar> what could POSSIBLY throw an exception here?
15:55:52  <Pinkbeast> integer overflow?
15:55:58  <Celestar> that doesn't throw ..
15:56:25  <Pinkbeast> shows you how much C++ I know
15:56:49  <peter1138> it's probably java
15:57:01  <Celestar> this is java :/
15:57:02  <Pinkbeast> Shows you how much Java I know!
15:57:20  * dihedral knows java
15:57:29  <planetmaker> nice island. yes
15:57:45  <Celestar> anyway. going home :P
15:57:46  <Celestar> cya
15:57:57  <Rubidium> Celestar: maybe the auto type?
15:58:08  <Celestar> it's an int.
15:58:16  <Celestar> no Auto Type, no Integer. int.
15:58:41  <Eddi|zuHause> there are even trains in java :p
15:59:09  <Celestar> well making openttd in java would require it to run on a 128GB of RAM for a normal sized map :P
15:59:35  <peter1138> remember when java had that horrible built-in ui?
15:59:42  <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: that's about the memory requirement to process CETS with nmlc :=
15:59:51  <Celestar> peter1138: it still has :P
16:00:03  <peter1138> is it still there? heh
16:00:12  <peter1138> mostly it's not used anymore, fortunately
16:00:13  <Celestar> the swing shit? yah.
16:00:31  <blathijs> But the swing stuff was the new UI, right?
16:00:35  * dihedral hums 'swing low'
16:00:40  <Celestar> it's as horrible
16:00:44  <blathijs> Wasn't the old one "AWT" or something?
16:00:47  <peter1138> AWT old
16:00:51  <Celestar> yah.
16:00:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i used swing in my PraxProg course :)
16:00:55  <peter1138> Swing implements native look & feel
16:01:04  <Celestar> with a lot of luck and hacking.
16:01:08  <peter1138> yeah
16:01:13  <Celestar> otoh. this shit here uses awt.
16:01:21  <peter1138> i just remember the awful 'metal' gui
16:02:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i usually stay away from gui programming...
16:02:27  <peter1138> Celestar, and if minecraft was written in c++, it'd... actually run on a low end system
16:02:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i did something with wxpython a while ago
16:02:49  <peter1138> infinite maps in ottd!
16:03:02  <Eddi|zuHause> fraactal map generator!
16:03:20  <Eddi|zuHause> only generate the parts that have been visited once :)
16:03:33  <peter1138> that's what perlin in
16:03:34  <peter1138> *is
16:03:40  <peter1138> except not our implementation
16:03:43  <Eddi|zuHause> (which is somewhat problematic if you have a "map overview" :p
16:04:07  <peter1138> cos we have a weird version
16:04:12  <peter1138> which is slightly faster
16:04:39  <peter1138> also problematic for multiplayer
16:04:51  <peter1138> and for tile updates
16:04:55  <peter1138> vehicle updates
16:04:57  <peter1138> etc etc
16:05:01  <peter1138> just never gonna work :p
16:06:40  <Eddi|zuHause> we need toroidal and spheroidal worlds :)
16:07:16  <Eddi|zuHause> (at least the latter requires map rotation)
16:08:55  <peter1138> nah, just warp it
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17:14:35  <andythenorth> hmm, simutrans or openttd?
17:14:47  <__ln__> yes
17:14:51  <andythenorth> xor
17:16:07  <planetmaker> good evening
17:16:11  <andythenorth> lo planetmaker
17:16:57  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> xor <- there won't be much left after this operation :p
17:17:11  <andythenorth> just a few bits :P
17:17:22  <andythenorth> because they're so similar? :P
17:17:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but exactly the bits that won't help you if they are standalone :p
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17:44:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r24894 trunk/src/settings.cpp (2013-01-08 17:44:39 UTC)
17:44:46  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5434]: Invalidate station selection window when station spread changes (based on patch by juanjo)
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17:56:49  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r24895 trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp (2013-01-08 17:56:43 UTC)
17:56:50  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5436]: Allow downgrade of road bridges in the scenario editor
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18:10:59  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r24896 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2013-01-08 18:10:53 UTC)
18:11:00  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5420, FS#5421, FS#5422, FS#5427]: Improvements and fixes for a number of English strings
18:11:51  <Terkhen> hello
18:12:25  <planetmaker> good evening Terkhen
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18:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause> new test on which translators can react within half an hour? :p
18:13:46  <planetmaker> Needs no new translations
18:14:13  <Eddi|zuHause> but it needs hitting "this translation is up to date" button :p
18:14:47  <planetmaker> I don't think so. That iirc only applies to strings which don't exist in the translation
18:16:22  <Terkhen> I play with an advantage, sometimes on IRC people comment on how slow we are
18:16:36  <planetmaker> :D
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18:18:20  <Terkhen> there, done
18:20:45  <peter1138> my lego electric wires don't work
18:20:49  <peter1138> what is this nonsense?
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18:22:28  <Belugas> plastic is not a good electric conductor ;)
18:22:35  <peter1138> hahaha no
18:35:01  <__ln__>
18:35:03  <Belugas> undestood, you're testing a lego set
18:35:09  <planetmaker> hm, looking at the patch to correct spellings in comments: There are certain recurrent patterns :D
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18:35:52  <Belugas> all thoe written by non english natives are wrong?
18:35:59  <Belugas> "those"
18:36:13  <planetmaker> yes, those errors, too :-P
18:36:20  <planetmaker> like missing letters
18:36:57  <planetmaker> and yes, I found also a number which surely I did introduce ;-)
18:41:12  <Eddi|zuHause> so, i suppose when i want a "2D-diff-viewer with permutation-support", i'd have to write one myself?
18:41:29  <planetmaker> err what?
18:42:13  <V453000> sounds nicely wtf
18:42:20  <Eddi|zuHause> like, i have this table, which is tab-separated, and i want the diff on a per-field basis, and if the line was moved from somewhere else, it shouldn't show as changed
18:42:59  <planetmaker> ah. I guess there the answer is 'yes'. Please provide me with your script / programme which solves that problem, though :-)
18:43:05  <planetmaker> I'm in need of that, too
18:45:36  <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: sort + (d)wdiff?
18:45:39  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24897 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-01-08 18:45:28 UTC)
18:45:40  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:41  <DorpsGek> bulgarian - 27 changes by pdedinski
18:45:42  <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 3 changes by elleryq
18:45:43  <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 30 changes by Stabilitronas
18:45:44  <DorpsGek> romanian - 12 changes by mariush
18:45:45  <DorpsGek> spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
18:46:36  <Eddi|zuHause> what's dwdiff?
18:47:31  <michi_cc>
18:47:44  <michi_cc> word-level diff with configurable delimiter
18:47:54  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, that sounds useful
18:47:54  <michi_cc> And maybe also
18:48:18  <michi_cc> dwdiff can also directly take a conventional diff
18:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i should write that down somewhere...
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19:52:04  <Wolf01> hello
19:52:16  <Kjetil> ehlo
19:52:47  <Terkhen> hi
19:53:42  <andythenorth> hrm
19:53:47  <andythenorth> something odd has happened
19:53:48  <__ln__> perché no parliamo italiano questo notte?
19:53:57  <andythenorth> yes
19:54:39  <Wolf01> "perché nonparliamo" ;)
19:55:34  <Rubidium> andythenorth: mb released dbsetxxl?
19:55:48  <andythenorth> dunno, did he?
19:55:55  <andythenorth> :)
19:55:57  <Rubidium> you said something odd happened
19:56:03  <__ln__> it's like 14 years since i last studied any italian, and it wasn't much back then either.
19:56:08  <andythenorth> long-lost openttd people coming back
19:56:35  <Rubidium> but I reckon the release date of dbsetxxl is linked to the opening of Berlin Brandenburg airport ;)
19:56:58  <andythenorth> well michael's stuff is clearly popular :)
19:57:04  <andythenorth> he gets lots of forum love
19:59:52  <Terkhen> you may need to improve your marketing skills, andythenorth :P
20:02:49  <andythenorth> scarcity creates demand
20:03:00  * andythenorth wants a bananas totaliser btw
20:03:10  <andythenorth> I have 984k downloads or something :P
20:03:22  <andythenorth> a bell should go off when 1m is reached
20:08:41  <Pinkbeast> Hang on, I'm off to grab 16,000 copies of FIRS
20:11:54  * andythenorth is off to the pub
20:11:58  <andythenorth> bye
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20:24:48  <peter1138> herpaderp
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20:27:00  <drac_boy> hi
20:28:56  <peter1138>
20:29:27  <peter1138> got the lights working :p
20:34:40  <peter1138>  rename src/{spriteloader/png.hpp => widgets/date_widget.h} (59%)
20:34:48  <peter1138> i'm sure there isn't that much similar
20:44:15  <frosch123> the copyright probably
20:44:57  <peter1138> :-)
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21:08:24  <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r24898 trunk/src/highscore_gui.cpp (2013-01-08 21:08:18 UTC)
21:08:25  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Don't unpause the game when closing the highscore window if it was already paused before the highscore screen was shown.
21:14:43  <drac_boy> I knwo this may be a bit of a silly question but is there any settings or so in particular on openttd to help with limited hardware resource? (other than not using super map sizes)
21:16:37  <frosch123> spritecache size is far more important than map size
21:17:02  <frosch123> reduce sprite_cache_size_px in openttd.cfg
21:17:20  <frosch123> enforce 8bpp blitter by setting blitter = 8bpp-optimized
21:17:32  <frosch123> disable extrazoom by setting the min zoom level in adv. settings
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21:20:13  <drac_boy> hm what should the cache be set to?
21:20:24  <frosch123> the unit is megapixels
21:20:29  <frosch123> so when using 8bpp it is megabytes
21:20:34  <frosch123> when using 32bpp it is 4 megabytes
21:20:51  <frosch123> ottd will become slower if you make it smaller
21:20:59  <Zuu> Turn off "Full animation" in the settings menu from inside the game.
21:21:06  <frosch123> you can regain speed by disabling the extrazoom
21:21:09  <drac_boy> hmm frosch123 so maybe something like 10MB?
21:21:13  <frosch123> which makes sprites use less memory
21:21:29  <frosch123> drac_boy: the traditional setting before extra zoom was 4 :)
21:21:47  <drac_boy> mm I think I've had that zoom thing just looks too silly seeing fat blocks of pixels :)
21:21:58  <drac_boy> 4....ok I'll check about that later, thanks
21:26:39  <drac_boy> next month might finish swapping pieces around and that'll mean two less computers too. so just had to see if openttd would still be of useable nature or not.  but I'll rather wait to actually see first ^_^
21:28:51  <drac_boy> mm anyway frosch123 and zuu what are you two even doing? :P
21:29:08  <frosch123> drinking coffee
21:29:24  <frosch123> well, no real coffee
21:29:34  <Belugas> not real man
21:29:57  <frosch123> hot water, 3 pieces of chocolate, and a bit of coffee taste or so
21:30:08  <Zuu> drinking juice
21:30:16  <drac_boy> heh :)
21:30:17  <Belugas> coffee and rum
21:30:21  <Belugas> harharhar
21:30:40  * drac_boy is just writing some forum replies and working a bit more on this grf tracking table
21:32:09  <frosch123> oh, and listening to some chuck berry
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21:36:04  <drac_boy> hi supercheese
21:36:08  <drac_boy> need more sirens? :P
21:36:23  <Supercheese> Sirens, eh?
21:36:33  <Rubidium> there haven't been any sirens in here
21:36:59  <Supercheese> From what I recall of my trips to Europe, the emergency vehicle sirens there are rather different than those here in the states
21:38:16  <Wolf01> 'night all
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21:39:56  <Zuu> Going to bed sounds like a good idea.
21:40:12  <drac_boy> Supercheese I was just joking about your grf :)
21:40:24  <Supercheese> Too loud or somethin?
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22:02:26  <peter1138> hmm
22:02:54  *** Lakie [] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]
22:20:07  <frosch123> night
22:20:10  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:26:07  <peter1138> what a nasty idea
22:26:26  <peter1138> automatically chop large ship sprites up and build sub-vehicles for each part
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22:28:44  <Terkhen> good night
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22:39:05  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r24899 /trunk/src (settings.cpp table/settings.ini) (2013-01-08 22:38:59 UTC)
22:39:06  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5434]: Also the station build window needs redrawing when the station spread changes (based on patch by juanjo)
22:46:49  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r24900 /trunk/src (242 files in 22 dirs) (2013-01-08 22:46:42 UTC)
22:46:50  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5389]: Comments with typos (most fixes supplied by Eagle_rainbow)
22:48:00  <planetmaker> drat... wrong FS entry :S
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23:28:27  <Supercheese> Problem: I place a water NewObject on a river slope. I go to clear the object, and the river is also destroyed...
23:28:48  <Supercheese> Unsloped river tiles still remain when the object is removed
23:33:17  <planetmaker> which version?
23:33:27  <Supercheese> 1.3.0 beta1 currently
23:33:34  <Supercheese> was that changed in a nightly since?
23:33:41  <planetmaker> nope
23:34:08  <planetmaker> I remembered then a previous thing with water and river slopes. Might be industries only then...
23:34:24  <planetmaker> Or locks even
23:34:25  <peter1138> report it :D
23:34:31  <peter1138> g;gnuit
23:34:34  <peter1138> g'night even
23:34:36  <Supercheese> will report
23:38:57  <__ln__>
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23:46:42  <Flygon> ...I like how the debt is relieved just because of a legal technicality :p
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