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00:06:21 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04d92f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:07:27 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 00:08:08 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:25 <DDR> Hey, guise... would it be possible to write script or something that made a new window with AI-like properties? 00:11:47 <DDR> eg, click a button, have the script keep an eye on something for you? 00:12:14 <DDR> Like, say... trains? 00:12:40 <DDR> See, I have come to the conclusion that having trains have a route is all backwards. What we _really_ want is for a route to have trains. 00:13:19 <DDR> Then you just edit the route's train-consist and it'll replace what we have out when convenient. 00:14:26 <DDR> That way, we don't have to fuck around manually upgrading trains and whatnot. I know there is autoreplace, but I'm a bit scared of that. 00:19:19 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.122.201] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:26:04 <Flygon> I actually like that idea 00:26:17 <Flygon> Assign trains to a route, and have them be modified for adding or removing cars 00:26:45 <Flygon> Issue is, what happens if you have multiple different sorts of trains, on one route/group, that while comparable 00:26:51 <Flygon> Are still different types? 00:27:08 <Flygon> To use a local example, you have Hitachi, Comeng, and Siemens trains 00:27:28 <Flygon> They range from 1972 to 2004, but all are comparable, and have similar specs and carriage size... 00:28:03 <Flygon> But in OpenTTD, adding extra carriages would either require a homogenous train type, or doing 3 seperate operations, assuming your script works the way I think it does... 00:28:08 <Flygon> Er, idea, not script 00:31:39 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:33:22 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 00:46:16 <DDR> Flygon: Different route, but I'd considering having a 'this route duplicates this other route". Like how ctrl-goto works now. 00:46:51 <DDR> You'd only have one engine type, of course, but I usually run routes with homogeneous engines anyway. 00:47:11 <DDR> Otherwise, the faster engines run into the slower ones. 00:48:12 <Flygon> Ah 00:48:24 <Flygon> I was assuming this was things like suburban/metro routes 00:48:27 <DDR> I mean, yes, you loose some flexibility, but I'd sacrifice that for not having to figure out twenty identical trains when auto-replace can't. 00:48:32 <Flygon> Where generally, all trains have the same specs 00:48:40 <DDR> I'm not really sure what those are, in this context. 00:49:40 <Flygon> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Refurbished-Hitachi-train-42m.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Melboure_Comeng_399M_Metro.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Siemens_train_in_Metro_Trains_Melbourne_Livery.jpg 00:50:03 <Flygon> I was assuming a similar sort of situation in OpenTTD could cause issues :p 00:52:19 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 00:52:46 <DDR> It would, but that's not what the routes idea optimizes for. 00:53:03 <Flygon> Alright 00:53:49 <DDR> Like, the problem is that I have 10 identical trains running a single route, and it's a real pain to have to upgrade. 00:54:57 <DDR> I was thinking that an AI could be used to band-aid the problem. You tell the AI what routes have what stops, give it a train, and then it takes care of the details. 00:55:00 <DDR> bbl, dinner. 00:58:21 <Flygon> Good idea 01:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> DDR: lots of things involved with this route idea... group system redesign, timetables, vehicle templates, ... 01:01:42 <Eddi|zuHause> some of these things already have patches 01:02:34 <Eddi|zuHause> problem with "AI-like" behaviour: someone will always find applications that break this behaviour. e.g. the existing automatic timetable separation breaks horribly when there are traffic jams 01:10:20 <Supercheese> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5441 01:10:28 <Supercheese> Official report of a bug I mentioned yesterday 01:23:44 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has joined #openttd 01:30:11 <DDR> Eddi|zuHause: Yep. 01:31:48 <DDR> I only use timetables for things like 'stay 5 days'. I was thinking that a sort of route-ai could also, say, 'run vehicles non-clumped', but that is non-core. 01:32:03 <DDR> It's a bit of a pipe dream. 01:42:23 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-046-036.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:43:25 <Flygon> I only end up running timetables for time spent in the station... 01:43:41 <Flygon> Because it's hard to predict how long a route can take on optimum speed 01:43:53 <Flygon> And since I expand networks agressively 01:43:59 <Flygon> I can't spend time on timetables... 01:48:58 <DDR> Especially with breakdowns on. 02:20:52 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:58:23 <Eddi|zuHause> breakdowns are silly 03:07:24 <DDR> nah, good chaos, makes you design resilient systems. 03:18:54 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 03:19:31 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 03:21:11 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 03:30:56 *** mkv` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:51:11 <Supercheese> model_life: 1920; 03:51:37 <Supercheese> Problem: that value seems to be capped 03:51:57 <Supercheese> according to the spec anyway 03:58:54 <Supercheese> Guess that's why eGRVTS horse-drawn stuff isn't available from year 0 04:06:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the exact limits might be in the NFO specs 04:06:50 <Supercheese> byte, so 255 or so 04:07:12 <Supercheese> though NML claims 254 04:07:34 <Supercheese> I doubt very many people will play games before 1680 04:07:38 <Supercheese> :P 04:08:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "doubt" is not "certain" 04:08:21 <Supercheese> Not sure how to provide the option though, guess I could just have a duplicate horse 04:08:35 <Supercheese> Oh, forgot to mention it is for a horse & rider 04:08:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure, maybe 255 could be treated as infinite internally 04:08:54 <Eddi|zuHause> never checked 04:08:59 <Supercheese> could be 04:09:09 <Supercheese> NML named constant VEHICLE_NEVER_EXPIRES 04:09:23 <Supercheese> thought I'd expect that to be zero and not 255 04:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause> well just use that constant then? 04:09:56 <Supercheese> Oh, I havent typed out my thought process here 04:10:02 <Supercheese> havent blarg wtf 04:10:10 <Supercheese> my auto-correct script is not working 04:10:43 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-19-249.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:11:04 <Eddi|zuHause> relying on auto spell correct sounds like a horribly hazardous habit 04:11:45 <Supercheese> I have this enormous autohotkey script 04:11:56 <Supercheese> It has enabled me to be immensely lazy with contractions 04:12:53 <Supercheese> Just type "didnt" and auto-filters to didn't, and so on 04:17:35 <Eddi|zuHause> that's exactly what i mean 04:17:59 <Eddi|zuHause> if you start to rely on this, your own spelling will degenerate 04:18:05 <Supercheese> doubtful 04:18:13 <Supercheese> For some people, perhaps 04:18:55 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-19-249.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:20:05 <Flygon> Wait, it's impossible to have vehicles before 1680? 04:20:07 <Supercheese> Would certainly be an interesting experiment to carry out with a large sample size 04:20:38 <Supercheese> It's impossible to have vehicles that expire around 1930 before the year 1676 04:20:45 <Supercheese> due to the model_life cap at 254 04:20:52 <Flygon> Oh 04:20:54 <Flygon> Gotcha 04:21:09 <Supercheese> of course the game adds some randomness to the expiry date 04:21:19 <Supercheese> expiry? expiration? 04:21:30 <Eddi|zuHause> one of those :p 04:21:37 <Supercheese> they seem to be synonyms 04:22:37 <Supercheese> it's too bad there's no synonym for cinnamon, think of all the puns that could be made 04:23:14 <Eddi|zuHause> what the hell are you talking about? 04:24:37 <Supercheese> plays-on-words 04:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i know what a pun is 04:25:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and i know what cinnamon is (i think) 04:25:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but i still don't know what the hell you're talking about 04:26:08 <Supercheese> pronounce them 04:26:11 <Supercheese> cinnamon 04:26:12 <Supercheese> synonym 04:26:42 <Supercheese> perhaps it's a dialect thing, they sound almost the same when I say them 04:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> these words definitely do not sound alike to my german ears 04:27:07 <Supercheese> yeah, different pronunciations then 04:27:17 <Flygon> Well 04:27:18 <Supercheese> they're identical save for the final syllable in US english 04:27:18 <Flygon> It depends 04:27:32 <Flygon> English has different languages depending on the location 04:27:48 <Flygon> It makes Skype chats baffling difficult with Americans when you speak Australian 04:27:53 <Supercheese> indeed 04:29:56 <Flygon> This makes things even more awkward when I have Europeans telling me that they'd like to Skype chat, but their spoken English is apperantly terrible... 04:29:56 *** kamnet [4a83f122@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:30:11 <Flygon> Awkward step is telling them that at least 25% of Americans I speak to struggle to understand me :p 04:30:17 <Supercheese> we tend to overabuse the schwa in US english 04:30:39 <kamnet> I now have access to all the CNet information for OpenTTD. 04:30:41 <Supercheese> si-nÉ-mÉn 04:30:50 <Supercheese> si-nÉ-nim 04:31:01 <Supercheese> (not exactly IPA, but I hope you get the drift) 04:31:11 <Flygon> I only got ASCII enabled :P 04:31:16 <Supercheese> bah 04:31:24 <Flygon> cbf figuring out Unicode 04:31:25 <Flygon> Sorry 04:31:36 <Supercheese> Eh, was auto-enabled for me 04:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: might have to do with me separating "a" and "o" very strictly when reading words 04:32:13 <Supercheese> Indeed, as I said we're terribly lazy with vowels here in the States 04:32:23 <Flygon> Supercheese: You'd be baffled as to how badly Australia has mangled English 04:32:26 <Flygon> Even worse 04:32:32 <Flygon> It changes per state 04:32:42 <Supercheese> Well, Australia is a large place 04:32:50 <Flygon> And locations inside states... 04:33:09 <Flygon> America is a large place 04:33:14 <Supercheese> Although even places like Spain and Germany have different dialects, and they're quite smaller 04:33:24 <Flygon> But at least people don't confuse you with being either British, Australian, or Dutch :p 04:33:41 <Supercheese> Americans can easily confuse any Commonwealth accent with another 04:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there are areas in germany where one village doesn't understand the dialect of the neighbouring village :pö 04:33:55 <Flygon> The Dutch guess by a friend was actually a very good catch... my Grandfather was Dutch :p 04:34:16 <Flygon> Eddi: Sounds like Finland, going by my discussions with Finns 04:34:36 <Flygon> We established that the only difference between Finland and Australia is that one snows more often :B 04:35:05 <Eddi|zuHause> or in switzerland, where dialects evolved independently in different valleys. it's like galapagos turtles or so :p 04:38:04 <kamnet> Interestingly enough, I read an article a week or two ago which stated that American dialects of the 20th century most closely reflects English dialects of the 18th century. 04:39:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds very overgeneralized 04:42:22 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 04:42:29 <kamnet> There's still quite a bit of influence from Irish and Italian immigration, but for the most part still very "stock". It said the change in the English dialects started in the upper class in the early 19th century and eventually became indoctrinated into the education system. 04:47:53 <Supercheese> Fun, English wikipedia featured article is the London Metropolitan Railway 04:48:54 <kamnet> Ah, here we go. And I was slightly off. Split was in mid 18th century (around the time of the American Revolution) 04:48:55 <kamnet> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2604480/posts 05:09:14 <Supercheese> Hmm, eGRVTS sources aren't available anywhere, are they? 05:13:13 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-19-249.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:13:29 <Pikka> peter1138, scuddles demands a server reset 05:28:18 *** kamnet [4a83f122@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66E95.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD42A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:56:58 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 06:05:25 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-19-249.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:17:42 <Supercheese> Wait, how do eGRVTS horses have 3 animation frames, when motion_counter is not divisible by 3... 06:21:41 *** dadymax [~MG@213.232.245.82] has joined #openttd 06:24:27 <Supercheese> Huh, I never noticed but it does hang on 1 frame longer than the other two 06:28:44 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:35:46 *** Pikka [~sammich@d58-106-19-249.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:36:28 *** Pikka [~sammich@d58-106-19-249.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 07:01:47 <peter1138> uh oh 07:03:44 <peter1138> Supercheese, with advanced varaction 2 you can use mod 3 07:04:02 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 07:04:14 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 07:05:06 <Supercheese> Yes, that would leave the remainder one 07:05:14 <Supercheese> hence one frame is longer, right? 07:07:10 <peter1138> eh? 07:07:20 <Supercheese> 16 % 3 07:07:21 <peter1138> why would that leave a remainder? 07:07:50 <peter1138> motion_counter is 32-bits 07:07:54 <Supercheese> blah 07:08:00 <peter1138> not 4 07:08:26 <peter1138> it would glitch... very rarely 07:08:42 <Supercheese> Hmm, in NML, motion_counter claims to go from 0-15 07:09:06 <Supercheese> motion_counter % 3 would have a remainder then, no? 07:09:28 <Supercheese> or am I totally misunderstanding 07:09:33 <peter1138> it's lying? 07:09:48 <peter1138> i dunno, i've never used nml 07:10:08 <Supercheese> Oh pooh 07:10:30 <Supercheese> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Vehicle_variables 07:10:45 <Supercheese> "motion_counter 0 ... 15 " 07:10:51 <peter1138> yes i looke 07:10:52 <peter1138> +d 07:11:11 <peter1138> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles#Motion_counter_.2846.29 07:11:16 <Supercheese> I'll write the switches and see if it behaves as expected 07:11:33 <peter1138> maybe someone saw the 16 and thought it meant it was 0..15 07:11:49 <Supercheese> 0..15 same magnitude as 1..16 07:12:00 <peter1138> exactly 07:12:15 <Supercheese> hmm 07:12:17 <Supercheese> anyway, coding 07:13:24 <peter1138> full 32 bits are returning for newgrf 07:13:42 <peter1138> looks like you'd want to shift >> 8 first though 07:15:26 <Supercheese> Yep, using motion_counter % 3 looks just like eGRVTS 07:17:11 <Supercheese> I rather suspect that's what eGRVTS uses 07:18:12 <Supercheese> So, pseudo-glitchy but nobody's complained as of yet 07:18:15 <Supercheese> I can live with that 07:18:39 <peter1138> well that's wrong and nml's broken then 07:18:45 <Supercheese> hm? 07:19:55 <peter1138> 'motion_counter' : {'var': 0x46, 'start': 8, 'size': 4}, 07:20:04 <peter1138> whyyyyyyyyyyy 07:20:06 <peter1138> why would they do this 07:20:11 * Supercheese does not know 07:23:03 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:23:06 <peter1138> should be 24, not 4 07:29:12 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:29:47 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 07:33:13 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-012-127.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 07:37:46 <peter1138> weird 07:37:59 <peter1138> simutrans lets me buy vehicles before they're introduced 07:39:56 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:40:24 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 07:40:35 <peter1138> how weird 07:40:43 <peter1138> you look at a vehicle's orders and... it stops 07:55:29 <Celestar_> morning ... 07:55:32 *** Celestar_ is now known as Celestar 07:59:13 <Celestar> peter1138: whatcha doing with Simutrans? :P 08:02:03 <peter1138> lookin at it 08:02:14 <peter1138> it was apt-gettable, so i did 08:02:46 <Celestar> and? how is it? 08:02:57 <peter1138> not very pleasurable :p 08:03:27 <Celestar> why's that :P 08:03:40 <peter1138> it's ugly 08:03:46 <peter1138> the toolbars are too long 08:04:13 <peter1138> clicking on a vehicle to view its stats buys it 08:09:23 <Celestar> LOL. Berlin Airport might not be finished before 2017 08:09:47 <Celestar> Some experts suggest that it is cheaper to tear down the whole terminal again and start over 08:10:38 <Celestar> try-and-error international airport construction. Can't really say they're not innovative. 08:16:27 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-012-127.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 08:17:11 <peter1138> why am i sat here with my headphones on... 08:31:24 <dihedral> hello 08:36:07 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 08:39:20 <__ln__> peter1138: sounds ungrammatical 08:49:19 <Supercheese> well, good night 08:49:34 <planetmaker> moin 08:49:46 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 08:50:01 <planetmaker> peter1138, wrt motion counter: it only makes sense - also according to the specs you linked - to distininguish 16 values 08:50:09 <peter1138> planetmaker, why? 08:50:15 <peter1138> it doesn't say that at all 08:50:20 <planetmaker> As the vehicle will not be redrawn, if it doesn't move. and there are only 16 steps in a tile 08:50:25 <planetmaker> it does say exactly that 08:50:35 <peter1138> there are only 16 steps in a tile 08:50:41 <peter1138> but it doesn't reset at the tile end 08:51:03 <peter1138> reach the tile, it goes to 17 08:51:07 <peter1138> +end 08:53:08 <planetmaker> that yes. 08:53:28 <peter1138> eh? 08:56:44 <planetmaker> So you could actually introduce longer animations. NML currently only returns (var 0x46 & 0x00000F00) >> 8 08:56:55 <planetmaker> and calls that motion_counter 08:57:45 <peter1138> right 08:58:38 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 09:04:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 09:04:04 <__ln__> http://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/zugunglueck-bei-neuhausen-am-rheinfall 09:09:57 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:15:24 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has joined #openttd 09:15:26 *** tycoondemon2 [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 09:35:16 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 10:03:41 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 10:20:58 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:21:13 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 10:28:25 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-67-3.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:33:50 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:34:41 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:34:54 <__ln__> who's the chick: http://hs12.snstatic.fi/webkuva/oletus/560/1305635731310 10:43:28 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:43:32 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 10:45:35 <valhallasw> __ln__: what note is that? it's not a normal â¬5 note, and as far as I know the ECB only makes euro notes 10:46:48 <valhallasw> oh, new notes. I'll shut up :-) 10:47:15 <valhallasw> apparently it's Europa. 10:56:56 * peter1138 fails with setfacl 11:00:36 <peter1138> mkdir /backup/dir; chown dir.group /backup/dir; chmod 700 /backup/dir; 11:00:54 <peter1138> setfacl -R -m u:"backup":rx /backup/dir; 11:01:09 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:01:26 <peter1138> i thought user "backup" would be able to access /backup/dir :S 11:03:57 <SpComb> the only setfacl's I've run have been copy-pasted off the internets 11:04:31 <peter1138> yeah, well 11:04:37 <peter1138> guess where i got that from :p 11:06:11 <SpComb> so what did it even do? 11:06:21 <peter1138> well it's set 11:06:22 <peter1138> but... 11:06:28 <SpComb> also on all the files? 11:09:01 <peter1138> no files yet 11:09:05 <peter1138> just trying to get into it 11:09:15 <SpComb> not sure I get it 11:09:45 <SpComb> effective rights mask? 11:10:30 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:15:25 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 11:19:36 <Celestar> back 11:21:45 <__ln__> valhallasw: indeed, it's (some details of) the new note 12:01:56 *** bolli [~Sam@222.160.17.46.bridgep.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:07:57 <peter1138> yay, working locks 12:09:34 *** Superuser [~root@cust-120-96.on4.ontelecoms.gr] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 12:12:15 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: as long as it's not newgrf-definable, what's the point? 12:12:27 <peter1138> eh? 12:13:12 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.stuellein.de/bilder/SHW-l-g.jpg 12:13:39 <peter1138> i'm not doing anything with graphics 12:13:44 <peter1138> just making the ship stop and then rise/fall 12:14:05 <peter1138> looks a bit weird with 2 ships at the same time but there you go 12:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, hence the newgrf authors should be able to do something with graphics 12:16:11 <peter1138> i'm not precluding that 12:16:15 <peter1138> just not implementing it 12:17:39 <peter1138> http://tinychat.com/openttd 12:20:23 <peter1138> huge ships glitch everywhere :p 12:20:28 *** bolli [~Sam@dab-bas2-h-50-1.dab.02.net] has joined #openttd 12:21:04 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 12:21:07 <drac_boy> hi 12:21:22 <dadymax> nothink can be perfect ) 12:21:28 <dadymax> looks good ) 12:23:31 <peter1138> that looked catastrophic 12:23:42 <Celestar> wtb ... 12:23:48 <peter1138> ? 12:23:51 <Celestar> collision detection for naval vessels :P 12:24:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: i think that's a bad idea. 12:24:23 <Celestar> lol 12:24:28 <Celestar> the reason being? 12:24:41 <drac_boy> me too eddi 12:24:46 <peter1138> the huge ferry glitches out the side of the lock :S 12:24:58 <Celestar> well 12:25:14 <Celestar> maybe it's a Panama lock and the vessel is post-Panamax? 12:25:15 <Celestar> :P 12:25:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: it would totally cripple ships, which are already at a disadvantage, because the game doesn't model "slow" cargos very well 12:25:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: however, i think ships should be separated at docks like aircraft, so only one ship per dock/loading bay 12:26:07 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, guess what 12:26:07 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: well. then not crippling ships by having them diffuse through each other sounds like the solution to the wrong problem :P 12:26:18 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, i've a patch for that :p 12:26:21 <Celestar> HAHAH 12:26:24 <Celestar> I missed that. 12:27:00 <Eddi|zuHause> your webcam is broken 12:27:26 <drac_boy> eddi problem is 'one ship per dock' may be a bit counterproductive to the small ships. because two can fit in the same berth only one big ocean ship can fit in 12:27:38 <drac_boy> just mentioning that, not been the first time for me tho 12:28:08 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: different statemachines for small/medium/large ships? 12:28:23 <drac_boy> sounds fair to me 12:28:36 <peter1138> yeah i adapted ships to use multi-stop docks 12:28:45 <peter1138> so there could be 2 at each dock 12:28:54 <peter1138> but it doesn't use statemachines atm 12:29:15 <peter1138> cos that just isn't going to work with so a wide size different 12:29:18 <peter1138> *difference 12:29:37 <peter1138> oh, and of course ships stop outside the dock, not on it 12:29:39 *** bolli1 [~Sam@dab-bas2-h-50-7.dab.02.net] has joined #openttd 12:30:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the current dock has 3 sides, so theoretically 3 ships could load there, but maybe large vessels could only load at the "front", not the "sides" 12:30:31 *** bolli [~Sam@dab-bas2-h-50-1.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:30:45 <drac_boy> eddi the reason I bought that up is because even although the scales are a bit out of porpotional it would had been realistic for two lake fishing boats to be able to berth where only one single ocean-going container carrier boat could fit at 12:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: yes, but currently, ships have no "size" at all 12:31:16 <drac_boy> 3 sides..hmm I would really say two but thats me 12:31:34 <peter1138> 2 sides and the end 12:31:52 <peter1138> not all (3) sides may be available though 12:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> we need river docks anyway, things you can put on flat land 12:32:25 <drac_boy> I've never really seen a skinny pier that ever had any berth at the 'front' end rather than only down the sides but I'm not going to complain, do whatever you think you like best of that ok? :) 12:32:55 <peter1138> sure but that's a valid place for ships to stop atm 12:33:29 <peter1138> you can run a single-width canal and put a dock at the end such that only the short side is accessible 12:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it could be up to the newgrf author ;) 12:34:54 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: There's even specs for flat docks, somebody just has to implement them and draw up some default graphics. 12:35:41 <peter1138> it's unfortunate that roadstops are called roadstops :p 12:35:49 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: i think your "problem" can be solved with different graphics :) 12:36:15 <Flygon> You know what'd make ships useful? 12:36:25 <peter1138> more cargo 12:36:35 <Flygon> A medieval pack with the ability to attack enemies... 12:36:36 <Flygon> ...yep 12:36:47 <Flygon> Let's make it an OpenTTD+AoEII hybrid :D 12:38:49 <peter1138> how do you add settings these days? 12:39:30 <michi_cc> src/table/settings.ini 12:39:56 <michi_cc> Does it really need one though? 12:46:13 *** bolli1 [~Sam@dab-bas2-h-50-7.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:47:10 *** bolli [~Sam@dab-bas2-h-50-7.dab.02.net] has joined #openttd 12:51:57 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/locks.diff 12:54:01 <V453000> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/steel_cargo.png hows that :) 12:56:33 <oskari89> peter1138: The locks works as IRL? 12:56:34 <oskari89> :) 12:56:42 <oskari89> Sounds quite good 12:57:31 <bolli> V453000, That looks really good :) 12:57:31 <peter1138> not entirely 12:57:37 <peter1138> there are no gates 12:57:53 <peter1138> michi_cc, it might annoy people 12:58:50 <drac_boy> use a parameter and make it disabled by default :P 12:58:58 <drac_boy> heh heh 12:59:08 <oskari89> peter1138: Gates shouldn't be a problem :) 12:59:18 <oskari89> Someone just draws them :) 12:59:19 <michi_cc> peter1138: So what? 13:00:17 <oskari89> (default gates graphics) 13:00:46 <oskari89> Like that: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Poland_Nogat_-_Biala_Gora_lock.jpg 13:00:53 <michi_cc> The only things that need settings are changes that would definitely break old savegames, and that will definitely not. 13:01:59 <Ammler> michi_cc: that is technical view, there is also gameplay change 13:02:00 <peter1138> oskari89, that would need a state machine 13:02:17 <peter1138> oskari89, and dealing with multiple ships 13:02:36 <peter1138> this patch just makes ships treated slopes specially 13:03:06 <michi_cc> Ammler: That's what I mean. Something that literally breaks savegames, i.e.makes it impossible to load, is not trunk material. Some ships moving up and down don't break gameplay. 13:04:51 <peter1138> not broken but changed 13:04:57 <peter1138> very minorly 13:05:02 <Ammler> oh, it is basically just change of the animation? I thought, it does queue ships etc. :-) 13:05:18 <peter1138> it causes the ship to stop briefly 13:05:30 <peter1138> then it has to raise/lower, and then accelerate again 13:05:49 <Ammler> that is really no harm, what if a ship crosses? 13:05:50 <peter1138> without the patch they go through at full speed, following the slope 13:06:02 <peter1138> if the paths cross then the universe ends 13:06:07 <peter1138> i mean, it just looks a bit weird 13:06:15 <Ammler> ok :-) 13:06:16 <peter1138> but no different to ships crossing normally anyway 13:06:22 *** bolli [~Sam@dab-bas2-h-50-7.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:06:33 <michi_cc> Even if you do make a setting, have it default on, otherwise nobody will notice it. 13:06:52 <peter1138> i think no setting may be okay 13:07:07 <peter1138> as if we *did* introduce a state-machine type thing later it could be awkward 13:07:20 <peter1138> "why do ships go straight through these locks" 13:08:09 <michi_cc> Fitting read: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000059.html 13:08:15 <peter1138> setting == save game bump :S 13:09:00 <oskari89> Would the state machine thing be hard to code? 13:09:44 <peter1138> not hard to code, but fairly invasive 13:09:58 <peter1138> ships have no concept of collisions, and therefore no concept of waiting 13:10:07 <Eddi|zuHause> <michi_cc> The only things that need settings are changes that would definitely break old savegames, and that will definitely not <-- so what happens with savegames where a ship is halfway up a slope? 13:10:18 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, good point 13:10:26 <peter1138> that would break 13:11:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that does not necessarily need a setting, only a savegame conversion 13:15:21 <peter1138> is it possible to understand a cocteau twins song? 13:19:53 *** bolli1 [~Sam@dab-bas2-h-1-5.dab.02.net] has joined #openttd 13:21:36 <Eddi|zuHause> a who what? 13:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that the volcano that exploaded? :p 13:22:30 *** dadymax [~MG@213.232.245.82] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:25:26 <Eddi|zuHause> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1883_eruption_of_Krakatoa 13:26:44 <peter1138> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocteau_Twins 13:27:26 <peter1138> there's a 30 second sample there... heh 13:28:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that must be music for old people :p 13:29:03 *** bolli1 is now known as bolli 13:32:03 *** Lakie [~Lakie@cpc3-wals9-2-0-cust51.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:33:03 <peter1138> < 13:44:11 *** bolli [~Sam@dab-bas2-h-1-5.dab.02.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause> <Supercheese> Fun, English wikipedia featured article is the London Metropolitan Railway <-- 150th jubilee? 13:54:26 <Flygon> Man, I can't wait for 2019ish 13:54:43 <peter1138> :-( 13:54:47 <Flygon> Melbourne had the worlds largest electric network around 100 years before then :B 13:55:21 <Flygon> But then we ran out of lines to electrify... barring regional lines. And the steam locos went over 100km/h. EMU's capped @ 80km/hish 13:55:53 <Eddi|zuHause> 80km/h-ish is perfectly fine for commuter lines 13:58:51 <Flygon> Eddi: Not for train trips that take 110 minutes with DMU's that can go 177km/h, though :p 13:59:31 <Flygon> Amusingly, the EMU carriages could be hauled @ over 80km/h by a steam locomotive 14:00:57 <Flygon> I should note, Eddi, 80km/h is the official speed limit 14:01:10 <Flygon> Probably imposed due to 191x era 1500v substation limitations 14:01:41 <Flygon> Chances are, they've been driven to 100km/h by accident, just like how current EMU's 'designed' for 115km/h have been accidentally coasted to 130km/h+ :p 14:02:00 <Flygon> But it's hard to get, due to a standard 'stopping all stations' pattern 14:02:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the berlin S-Bahn had similar limits, electrification started in the 1920s 14:02:27 <Flygon> What voltage? 14:02:35 <Flygon> And overhead wire or third rail? 14:02:41 <Eddi|zuHause> third rail 14:02:44 <Flygon> Overhead here... ZERO third rail in Australia 14:02:45 <Flygon> Ah 14:02:52 <Flygon> Third rail.... I really dislike it 14:02:54 <peter1138> 3rd rail is fun 14:03:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure about the voltage, possibly 750V 14:03:11 <Flygon> It's advantages are offset by stupidly low voltage 14:03:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i could look that up, but.. :p 14:03:20 <Flygon> 750v is... well, bad :( 14:03:20 *** Superuser [~root@host109-153-189-248.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:03:28 <Flygon> Only good for trams imo... 14:03:28 <peter1138> weird thing about the metropolitan line is how far out of london it went 14:03:55 <Flygon> peter1138: Yeah, Australian cities were influenced heavily by that sort of design 14:04:25 <Eddi|zuHause> indeed, it's 750V 14:04:36 <Flygon> eg. Melbourne-Pakenham is the same distance as Melbourne-Geelong... the former is considered a Metro line, latter is a Diesel HST line for a 'regional' city, hahaha 14:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: i guess it's not that bad, as with third rail you can get "more copper" better than on catenary, so you can transmit higher currents 14:06:04 <Flygon> There's only so much current you can shove into a third rail 14:06:07 <peter1138> it ended at verney junction, which is a tiny little hamlet out in the middle of nowhere 14:06:25 <Flygon> ...specifically, your substations run out of grunt 14:06:35 <Eddi|zuHause> they experimented with various systems before WWI, and it was planned to go for catenary&AC at that time, but after the plans got revived after WWI, it was reconsidered and decided for 3rd rail&DC instead 14:06:53 <Flygon> peter1138: People claim that the Hurstbridge line here terminates at a tiny village :p 14:07:05 <Flygon> AC? 14:07:09 <Flygon> Wow, I'm surprised 14:07:16 <Flygon> I'd have expected 11kV DC 14:07:39 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't really get DC that high 14:07:43 <peter1138> Flygon, pfft, that's only 23 miles 14:08:06 <Flygon> peter1138: Hurstbridge UK or Hurstbridge Victoria? 14:08:17 <Flygon> Eddi: What's the practical limit? 14:08:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: it was around the same time that they started electrifying main lines, which was done with 15kV AC 14:08:36 <Flygon> Ah 14:08:38 <peter1138> there is no hurstbridge uk 14:08:47 <Flygon> I'm surprised they didn't go with 15kV AC then... 14:09:16 <Flygon> peter1138: Ah, sorry. Many Australian towns are ripped from the UK. 14:09:27 <Flygon> eg. St Albans is a town in NSW, and a suburb in Vic 14:09:46 <Flygon> Either way, compared to the rest of Metro, Hurstbridge is considered 'out in the sticks' 14:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> main line electrification in prussia was not located around berlin, so there was no reason to stick to that voltage 14:09:56 <Flygon> So is Stony Point... but it's the only Diesel Metro line 14:10:11 <peter1138> flygon, http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=verney+junction&hl=en&ll=51.940042,-0.92864&spn=0.002659,0.003546&sll=51.940389,-0.92813&sspn=0.010636,0.022359&t=h&hnear=Verney+Junction,+United+Kingdom&z=18 14:10:14 <Eddi|zuHause> mainline electrification reached berlin only in the 1980s 14:10:24 <peter1138> (of course, difference is it doesn't still go there) 14:10:25 <Flygon> In fact, Stony Point literally terminates at a beach 14:10:36 <Flygon> Ah, I was going to ask that 14:11:16 <Flygon> I should note, when most Melbourne suburban lines were built, many places trains stopped at were like Verney Junction 14:11:17 <Eddi|zuHause> (electrification efforts were actually enforced in the 1930s, but they didn't manage to finish before WWII) 14:11:30 <Flygon> But the city practically grew on the stations (also, trams) 14:12:04 <Flygon> Is that railway shown still used by trains, peter1138? 14:12:09 <peter1138> no 14:12:30 <peter1138> http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/v/verney_junction/verney_junction18.jpg 14:12:33 <peter1138> hope not :) 14:12:58 <peter1138> weird to see a disused line with tracks still 14:12:59 <Flygon> Hmm 14:12:59 <Flygon> Eh 14:13:06 <Flygon> That's still freight quality here 14:13:14 <Flygon> Just slap a 25-40km/h speed restriction on it 14:13:27 <peter1138> don't be silly 14:13:33 <peter1138> freight goes in trucks :p 14:13:41 <Flygon> I'm not being silly 14:13:45 <Flygon> Mildura line is an example here 14:13:47 <peter1138> i know 14:14:02 <Flygon> We haul a lot of grain 14:14:33 <Flygon> But, yeah, point is 14:14:44 <Flygon> I don't like third rail 14:14:54 <Flygon> Too many practical problems with it, compared to an overhead wire 14:15:47 <Flygon> Now if we'd just build darned Double Decker trains for longer distance lines... 14:16:20 <peter1138> if only they'd fit on our lines 14:16:41 <Flygon> Early adopter syndrome? 14:17:37 <Flygon> Victoria has a similar issue. Part of the reason DD trains are so 'hard' to get here, is because we have a small loading gauge (compared to the rest of Aus) 14:18:27 <Flygon> This's made using pre-existing models for things from other networks a pain 14:19:10 <Flygon> On the upside, the gauge is large enough that when you guys sell off your BR125's, we can use them as freight locomotives to replace our 1950s ones :B 14:21:55 *** Kjetil [kjetil@161.81-166-7.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:03 <Flygon> They'll catch on fire less often 14:22:21 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:24:29 * drac_boy smacks flygon for such a stupid suggestion 14:24:31 <drac_boy> :p 14:24:41 <Flygon> I'm being serious 14:24:42 <drac_boy> more like you need Class 66 14:24:44 <drac_boy> :) 14:25:12 <Flygon> .... 14:25:14 <Flygon> Those aren't old 14:25:22 <Flygon> I'm suggesting INTENTIONALLY buying old stock 14:25:27 <Flygon> Additionally 14:25:36 <Flygon> BR125 has parts interchangable with XPT 14:26:03 <Flygon> And besides 14:26:06 <Flygon> drac_boy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NR_class 14:26:17 <drac_boy> well BR125 is a highspeed passenger locomotive and also other thing..its well-received in preservation .. so beside "freight" would be blocked at sale time I imagine 14:26:37 <Flygon> Damn 14:26:39 <Flygon> Well, still 14:26:50 <Flygon> V/Line Passenger could use them for some long distance trains 14:27:25 <Pinkbeast> I cannot imagine that if we were selling Class 43s we'd stop you using them for whatever you liked 14:27:28 <drac_boy> Class 66 on the other hand are too numerous at times and they're pretty much norm on anything to do with freights 14:27:31 <Flygon> So that they can run 160-200km/h for Swan Hill trains on the RFR tracks, instead of 80-115km/h with a giant lawnmow-, I mean, classy N-class locomotive 14:27:54 <drac_boy> Pinkbeast theres been many sale diverages/blockages through europe...even from france too...so 14:28:46 <Pinkbeast> I'm not sure what France has to do with it. 14:29:22 <Flygon> Point is... it'd be nice to see the BR125 locomotives continue service around the world 14:29:31 <Pinkbeast> If we'd send the A4s and Britannias to be cut up and turned into razor blades, I cannot see any reason why we would impose any condition on sales of the Class 43 14:29:39 <Flygon> They're quite remarkable, and still are quite useful for long distance trips 14:29:54 <Pinkbeast> Flygon: well, if you ask me, they might continue service in the UK for a good few years yet, replacement programme or no. :-) 14:29:55 <Flygon> Thing is, Pinkbeast 14:29:57 <Flygon> Timems have changed 14:29:58 <drac_boy> Pinkbeast well don't look at me, I'm only going by the monthly news report from europewide areas 14:29:59 *** Kjetil [kjetil@161.81-166-7.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 14:30:06 <Flygon> People won't scrap them as likely now 14:30:15 <Flygon> Due to public outcry of a British icon being scrapped 14:30:22 <Pinkbeast> drac: yes, because "Europe" is a monolith, we know 14:30:42 <Flygon> Pinkbeast: True, true... still 14:30:54 <Flygon> If they're ever phased out, It'd be nice to see them on VLP service :) 14:31:17 <Flygon> That, and theoretical forward/backward-compatiblity with the XPT with modifications 14:31:23 <Pinkbeast> I don't know that they'd go for scrap, but I think this idea that if we sold them to another country we'd insist they be used for particular purposes is laughable. 14:31:25 <drac_boy> pinkbeast...the funny thing is.. some of the EWS diesels that were only booked in uk alone .. they are left to rust very badly outdoor at least reporting a few months ago .. basically wouldn't sale them or even scrap them 14:31:40 <Flygon> Kinda funny, XPT is an advancement on the 125 design... but it's top speed is lower :P 14:31:53 <Flygon> What 14:31:56 <Flygon> Really? 14:32:08 <Flygon> But keeping them in operation would have kept them maintained :( 14:32:11 <Pinkbeast> Well, the gearing's right for Australian railways. 14:32:27 <NGC3982> Computers baffle me. 14:32:28 <Flygon> Same reason the 1950s locomotives from here refuse to die. Because they're maintained well 14:32:39 <NGC3982> OpenTTD starts lagging due to big map, with lot's of stuff on it. 14:32:50 <NGC3982> But the RAM is not full, and the CPU is barely working. 14:32:55 <Flygon> Pinkbeast: True, but it'd be nice to see it regeared to 125 specs, and run on a Victorian RFR line. 14:33:00 <Flygon> Just to see how fast it could actually go 14:33:15 <Flygon> I'll be damned if it couldn't go 230 14:33:22 <Flygon> km/h, that is 14:33:34 <Flygon> NGC3982: Rendering? 14:33:41 <Flygon> Disable trees 14:34:06 <drac_boy> flygon well I'm just continuing the same topic anyway .. also on a related note SNCF ordered a lot of new locomotives even as they're moving less freights .. funny thing is most of the previous generation electrics and some diesels are just basically sitting in a full locomotives yard 0_o 14:34:12 <NGC3982> Flygon: It's not like it's unplayable. I just ..don't understand what makes my framerate drop 14:34:25 <NGC3982> Removing the trees surely increases framerate 14:34:32 <drac_boy> haven't heard any kind of peep about leasing or selling them but .. I just hope SNCF isn't "dumb" we will just have to see :| 14:34:33 <NGC3982> (As they always do) 14:34:49 <Flygon> drac_boy: How big is the standard SNCF loading gauge, compared to the UK? 14:35:06 <Pinkbeast> 230: uh well 43000 and 43001 were in top condition when they did that and weren't 40 years old 14:35:08 <Flygon> Could be useful to sell the Diesels off to practically anywhere 14:35:15 <Flygon> Electric are near useless in Australia, though 14:35:16 <Pinkbeast> Bigger. Everyone's loading gauge is bigger. 14:35:19 <drac_boy> flygon its of modest UIC gauge so I have no idea about uk's tbh 14:35:36 <Flygon> Pinkbeast: Henc, why I said I'd be damned. I know the 125 reached 241km/h. 14:35:45 <Flygon> Hmm... 14:35:56 <Flygon> I'm not sure what the French loading gauge is verses Victoria 14:36:24 <drac_boy> flygon at least the BB 22200 is still used on some trains but I suspect more of them are just sitting there outdoor with no regarding tho 14:36:27 <Flygon> That, and they'd need to be 1600mm convertable... 14:36:41 <drac_boy> nothing's odd like watching a single BB22200 haul only two UIC carriages for a considerable distance tho 14:36:44 <Pinkbeast> I don't, the diesel rail record is 238 km/h (albeit set by the Class 43) 14:36:58 <Flygon> drac_boy: What IS the economic benefit of letting them rust? 14:37:00 <Pinkbeast> Anyway, back to work 14:37:12 <drac_boy> flygon good question indeed 14:37:18 <Flygon> Pinkbeast: I thought the Diesel record was set by Russia in the 1970s, around 27xkm/h?... 14:37:25 <Flygon> Then again, this IS Soviet Russia... 14:37:31 <drac_boy> at least DB isn't too bad with older locomotives, still having some of the 1xx series running around 14:37:51 <drac_boy> although I do remember reading that DB scrapped a few certain ones 1-2 years ago to avoid the issues with selling them off >_< 14:38:00 <Pinkbeast> "Claimed, but no verification from an independent witness" says Wikipedia which is probably accurate. 14:38:11 <Flygon> Ah, rightyo then 14:38:24 <Flygon> drac_boy: To be fair, many are scrapped due to underframe issues 14:38:25 <Pinkbeast> Like City of Truro and #999 14:38:27 <drac_boy> afk for a bit anyway 14:38:30 <Flygon> Or, more to the fact 14:38:39 <Flygon> Their frames wear the $#%@ out 14:38:56 <Flygon> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Spirit-of-progress-70th-anniversary-2007.jpg This facade hides a sad fate of rust eating away... 14:38:58 <Flygon> Have fun, dracco 14:39:18 <Pinkbeast> In fact #999 is claimed at 112 mph which, ha ha. 14:39:36 <Flygon> #999? 14:39:51 <Pinkbeast> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_State_Express 14:40:15 <Flygon> 180... 14:40:16 <Flygon> ... 14:40:18 <Pinkbeast> Like City of Truro but more so, there just ain't enough boiler or grate. 14:40:22 <Flygon> Yeah, that's unbelievable 14:40:46 <Flygon> Even Australia barely ever reached that speed with Steam. Best that comes to mind is 16x in the 1930s in NSW 14:40:56 <Pinkbeast> I think you can just about make an argument for City of Truro in 1904 14:41:12 <Flygon> And 138km/h in Victoria... the driver reckon'd he'd have made 145-150km/h if there wasn't a timetable :B 14:43:34 <Flygon> Keeping in mind, he wasn't suppose to go over 80-115km/h (depending on sections of the track) 14:43:50 <Flygon> He and the fireman only did it because the speed recorder ran out of paper :p 14:44:14 <Flygon> And it was an interstate express train that took it's last load of water for the trip... 14:46:03 <Flygon> Anyway 14:46:10 <Flygon> I'm getting very tired and ranty 14:46:13 <Flygon> have a great day, peeps :3 15:08:07 <Belugas> hello 15:08:46 <NGC3982> Evening. 15:09:06 <peter1138> hi sir 15:09:42 <NGC3982> I was just googling trough some Raspberry Pi specs 15:09:56 *** tycoondemon [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:10:04 <peter1138> what do you want it for? 15:10:05 <NGC3982> And i was thinking about the discussion we had in this channel regarding using an RPI as a dedicated OpenTTD server. 15:10:11 <peter1138> okay 15:10:34 <NGC3982> The only thing i see not working is the RAM, and finding a RPI based OS that supports the currect builds. 15:10:40 <Belugas> hello sir peter1138. 15:10:44 <NGC3982> I guess the latter is not really a problem. 15:10:55 <peter1138> NGC3982, raspbian is debian. it even comes with openttd. 15:11:00 <peter1138> (although it'll be a release) 15:11:03 <NGC3982> :-O 15:11:05 <NGC3982> Oh, ok. 15:11:08 <NGC3982> Well then. 15:11:11 * Belugas is doing charge back report. with signature. He does hate that kind of assigment 15:11:17 <peter1138> later models have 512MB, although some is shared for the gpu 15:11:33 <peter1138> Belugas urgh 15:11:34 <NGC3982> Afaik, that's not nerly enough? 15:11:46 <peter1138> for a moderate openttd server, that's more than plenty 15:12:20 <peter1138> 360MB free on mine 15:12:32 <peter1138> i think it's still running X heh 15:13:02 <peter1138> 390MB free after stopping that, heh 15:14:07 <NGC3982> Then, my calculations are poop. 15:14:14 <NGC3982> I need to order 2 or 3 of them 15:14:23 <peter1138> hmm? 15:14:23 <NGC3982> One for the arcade machine, and one for OpenTTD 15:14:32 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:34 <NGC3982> And one for future ..stuff. 15:14:37 <peter1138> cpu-wise it mightn't be enough for a larger map 15:14:48 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has joined #openttd 15:15:00 <NGC3982> My atom230 can handle it without a charm 15:15:07 <peter1138> also the ethernet is connected via usb, so that's overhead 15:15:19 <NGC3982> And there is no worser CPU then the Atom230. 15:15:20 <NGC3982> :D. 15:15:21 <peter1138> which is considerably faster 15:15:27 <NGC3982> Ah, i see. 15:15:47 <NGC3982> Eh, wait. No? There is a RJ45 Ethernet connection? 15:16:20 <peter1138> yes 15:16:34 <NGC3982> Oh, you mean on the actual card? :) 15:16:47 <peter1138> yeah it's usb 15:17:00 <NGC3982> What is USB? The Ethernet bus? 15:17:28 <peter1138> ... 15:17:34 <peter1138> no, usb is usb :S 15:17:45 <NGC3982> Yes, and ethernet is ethernet 15:18:02 <NGC3982> I notice an ethernet connection via RJ45, and two USB connections via USB. 15:20:43 <peter1138> hmm, actually it's not, dunno where i heard that 15:21:23 <peter1138> anyway, it's not a pc :p 15:22:04 <peter1138> i would think it's a bit slow for emulating, but i dunno 15:22:19 <NGC3982> A simple google tells me that the unit (B) uses 2*USB-connectors, and 1*RJ45 connector. 15:22:28 <NGC3982> If the bus uses something else, out of my league. 15:23:08 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:09 <NGC3982> peter1138: Yes, that's the thing. I guess the current model is barely on the line for "more professional" OTTD server maintenance. 15:23:24 <NGC3982> Especially when i wish to host several of them at once. 15:23:25 <peter1138> profession? what? 15:24:27 <NGC3982> Yes, as i wrote: "More professional", as in serious servers with their own domains and continuus administration. 15:24:44 <NGC3982> Write/wrote/wroot. 15:26:12 <NGC3982> I guess i have to stick to small form factor PCs a bit longer. 15:28:49 * peter1138 ponders setting up a cross-compiler for it 15:29:48 <NGC3982> What's that? :) 15:30:37 <peter1138> building for a different target than the host 15:34:04 <NGC3982> Ah, i see 15:34:09 <NGC3982> ..I think. 15:36:53 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:38:38 <supermop> hi 15:39:02 *** WardH [Ward@ip45-152-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 15:39:29 <WardH> Hi 15:40:12 <WardH> I was wondering if itÂŽs possible to change the industry a station delivers to, when thereÂŽs more than 1 industry that requires the same resource in range 15:40:35 <WardH> or even balance it out between the two, I assume right now it just uses the closest industry 15:42:17 <drac_boy> hi supermop 15:43:03 <peter1138> http://i.imgur.com/1Z9PL.jpg 15:43:16 <peter1138> Belugas :D 15:44:00 <NGC3982> Derp. 15:44:14 <Belugas> what a cutie! 15:44:25 <Belugas> the beast, not the beauty... 15:45:54 <NGC3982> WardH: I'm not entirely sure, but i do not think you can actively change what industry of the two, that should handle the resource. 15:46:21 <WardH> ok, then IÂŽm gonna have to build 2 stations and place them just right :p 15:46:22 <NGC3982> Except, if you are transporting the newly created resource from the industry. 15:46:30 <NGC3982> Yes, i would do that. 15:46:40 <NGC3982> I did not find any documentation on this, though. 15:46:57 <WardH> doing a scenario where you have to supply 2 steelmills with x amount of ore 15:47:17 <WardH> so I in my hubris just built 1 big station to service them both :p 15:47:19 <WardH> didnÂŽt work 15:47:47 <NGC3982> If you export steel from one of them, that one will use most of the delivered ore 15:47:51 <NGC3982> I think. 15:57:47 <Belugas> 1554.97$ charge back restored. found a bug on my system 15:57:48 <Belugas> shit 15:59:58 <peter1138> :S 16:00:21 <peter1138> anyone know if ISR source is available? 16:01:15 <NGC3982> Belugas: Charge back due to a system bug? :) 16:01:41 *** Superuser [~root@host109-153-189-248.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:03:09 <NGC3982> Speaking of money, 16:03:26 <NGC3982> I notice that inflation fucks up big time when playing a 1800-ish > 2100-ish game. 16:03:39 <peter1138> fucks up? 16:04:09 <NGC3982> Or well, it's not incorrect. Just barely playable. Simple engines are up to billion GBP prices. 16:04:16 <peter1138> if you mean the disparity between costs and cargo income, that is b design 16:04:19 <peter1138> *by 16:04:39 <peter1138> most sets are designed for no inflation 16:04:43 <NGC3982> I see. 16:05:02 <NGC3982> We started 1832 with UKRS2+ 16:05:16 <peter1138> ukrs2 should be used with inflation off 16:05:37 <NGC3982> That explains it. Thanks. :3 16:05:52 <NGC3982> Too bad we didn't figure that out two hundred years ago 16:08:18 <Belugas> NGC3982: nope. bank asked to verify a few payments proof. difference between request and actual data. the difference pointed out to a bug, mainly different process between debit and credit, where credit slip was overwritten by following debit transaction 16:09:13 <NGC3982> Belugas: Oh. 16:09:22 <Belugas> luckily, signatures are safe and intact. just had to forge back the lost credit slips. still, need to patch hole ASAP 16:09:34 <NGC3982> Oh, ok. 16:09:41 <Belugas> 3500 and counting POS stations to fix 16:13:16 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:50 * peter1138 ponders making a test grf 16:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> anyone know if ISR source is available? <-- planetmaker is the expert in these things 16:33:43 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:34:29 <peter1138> found it 16:34:54 <peter1138> everyone on that devzone thing is hg :-( 16:37:02 <NGC3982> Wow. 16:37:29 <NGC3982> Simply creating a new track next to the current circle system increased operating profit with 40% 16:37:40 <NGC3982> Train queues are the worst thing ever. 16:38:04 <peter1138> //,.....,.......5F // random bits - not supported by OpenTTD 16:38:06 <peter1138> hmm 16:38:09 <peter1138> lies ^ 16:38:38 <drac_boy> heh 16:44:00 <peter1138> difficult to follow this 16:45:39 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f57df.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:52:16 <peter1138> nml doesn't do stations does it? 16:54:25 <peter1138> hmm, don't appear to have ukwaypoints source any more 16:55:29 <peter1138> 0 * 22 00 04 01 04 00 08 "DFLTDFLTDFLTDFLT" 16:55:33 <peter1138> that looks sourcey 16:55:47 <peter1138> not much in the way of comments though :p 16:59:10 <__ln__> the new 5⬠note seems unpractically large for daily use: http://is13.snstatic.fi/img/978/1288531112756.jpg 16:59:33 <peter1138> heh 16:59:53 <peter1138> hmm, i wonder what is actually different between these buffers... v0.1 and v0.2 17:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> ground sprites? action14? 17:02:59 <peter1138> 5 bytes longer 17:03:48 <peter1138> and that... accounts for 17:03:55 <peter1138> adding "-2007" to the action 8 17:04:44 <peter1138> result png is exactly the same 17:04:51 <peter1138> *resultant 17:05:57 <peter1138> i don't think these waypoints are on bananas though 17:06:08 <peter1138> Born_Acorn! 17:14:58 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 17:17:04 <peter1138> right, i should... make... some graphics :S 17:20:36 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-012-127.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 17:30:40 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:30:43 *** roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.84.56] has joined #openttd 17:35:58 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:37:40 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.87.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:41:56 <Terkhen> hello 17:44:20 <peter1138> hmm, how can i get grfcodec to output the header? 17:51:03 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 17:51:23 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:58:46 *** roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.84.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:02:24 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:02:27 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:02:35 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:49 *** St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:09:36 <peter1138> Signal: Segmentation fault (11) 18:09:38 <peter1138> good stuff :D 18:12:00 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:19:23 *** MG [5492e76d@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:19:30 *** St3f [~Anonymous@5ED29E55.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:20:37 <MG> Currently I'm playing some multiplayer maps with 1.2.3 18:21:24 <MG> Sadly the chat messages stay forever and are covering the left lower corner of my window...is this a bug? 18:21:42 <MG> or did i forget some advanced settings? 18:22:13 <peter1138> is it paused? 18:22:40 <MG> no 18:23:14 <Eddi|zuHause> did you press the key left of 1? 18:23:32 <MG> even if it's running for two hours without any real chat, the "player connected" messages are still displayed 18:23:42 <MG> no i didn't press any key 18:23:50 <MG> not the console... 18:25:22 <frosch123> what does "setting network_chat_timeout" say in the console? 18:27:31 <MG> oh that was the solution :D 18:27:54 <frosch123> what value was it set to? 18:28:00 <MG> increased the value while dealing with connection-timeout problems some days ago 18:28:12 <MG> maximum: 65535 :P 18:28:16 <peter1138> right, random trigger, where you are 18:28:19 <peter1138> *where ar eyou 18:28:31 <frosch123> @clac 65535/3600 18:28:36 <frosch123> @calc 65535/3600 18:28:36 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 18.2041666667 18:28:39 <frosch123> so only 18 hours 18:28:46 <MG> lol 18:29:14 <MG> @petert1138: ? 18:29:19 <MG> @peter1138: ? 18:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> "petert1138" is a scary thought :p 18:33:00 <MG> :D 18:35:39 *** Maedhros [~maedhros@31.185.224.237] has joined #openttd 18:36:35 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a rare visit 18:36:55 <Eddi|zuHause> what brings you to these parts of the tt-verse? 18:37:19 <__ln__> @seen Maedhros 18:37:19 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Maedhros was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 50 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 47 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <Maedhros> Yexo: so i did :) 18:37:37 <Maedhros> hah, that's a lot longer than I'd thought! 18:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't quite manage 3 years :p 18:38:10 <Markk> MG: Type "pet" and then press the tab-key (the one that has |<--- --->| on it, between caps lock and 1). 18:38:10 <Maedhros> heh, damn. 18:38:16 <__ln__> yeah, try again -- see you in three years 18:38:18 <Markk> MG: Magic will happend. 18:38:21 <Markk> happen* 18:38:48 <MG> :D 18:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> 1: tsb-complete nicks, 2: ?, 3: profit 18:39:21 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: +1 18:39:24 <Eddi|zuHause> *tab 18:39:35 <Markk> Tsb complete nicks ftw! 18:40:05 <Maedhros> it seems like I've missed quite a few new things while I've been gone 18:40:16 <Maedhros> like the release of version 1.x! 18:41:00 <Maedhros> and yet everything that I like about OpenTTD is reassuringly similar :) 18:41:05 <peter1138> well that's annoying 18:41:18 <peter1138> didn't work, reloaded, and it worked 18:41:26 <peter1138> hi Maedhros :D 18:42:45 <Maedhros> hi peter1138 :) 18:45:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24902 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-01-10 18:45:23 UTC) 18:45:33 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:34 <DorpsGek> bulgarian - 180 changes by logi 18:45:35 <DorpsGek> danish - 11 changes by Elias 18:45:36 <DorpsGek> finnish - 2 changes by jpx_ 18:56:04 *** MG [5492e76d@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 18:56:24 <peter1138> found a bug! 18:56:55 <Belugas> don't tell anyone, even more if at job! 18:58:28 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r24903 trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp (2013-01-10 18:58:22 UTC) 18:58:29 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Cached station animation triggers were only set when removing parts of a station. 18:59:32 <peter1138> (and saveload) 19:00:42 <Maedhros> Belugas! hello :) 19:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> 2 minutes before nightly... bold move :p 19:01:23 <peter1138> pfft 19:01:29 <Belugas> midnight, not nightly... ppfffff 19:01:37 <Belugas> Maedhros! 19:01:54 <peter1138> one-liner :P 19:01:56 <Belugas> coming back from the oblivion, as it seems :) 19:02:07 <Belugas> heheh 19:02:57 <frosch123> the nightly will be done before the testing build for 24903 19:03:27 <frosch123> the nightly started faster than it could trigger the test build :p 19:03:46 <Belugas> #Screaming for Vengeance! 19:04:05 * Belugas likes a little boost for end of day work session 19:04:12 <Maedhros> Belugas: indeed so - my phd is all finished now, so i'm slowly emerging back into the world :p 19:04:51 <frosch123> phd finished? does that mean no more time for ottd? 19:05:29 <peter1138> anyway, that little bug explains why my cargo triggers weren't triggering :p 19:05:51 <frosch123> yay, triggering triggers :) 19:06:11 <Maedhros> frosch123: exactly the opposite :) 19:06:24 <frosch123> triggering the trigger triggered... 19:06:34 <frosch123> Maedhros: do you believe so? :p 19:07:10 <frosch123> you never have more time "next year" :) 19:08:12 <Belugas> Avoid saying "trigger the trigger" in the USA 19:08:26 <Belugas> "more time"... 19:08:29 *** St3f [~Anonymous@5ED29E55.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:08:56 <frosch123> Belugas: daylength patch 19:11:21 * Belugas looks for the RealLife repo to apply the patch 19:12:37 <peter1138> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxkZzVnkps0 19:13:35 <frosch123> teaser for tt-forums? 19:13:49 <peter1138> more of a test 19:14:01 <peter1138> seeing as all the other grfs get the RA2 stuff wrong 19:22:11 <peter1138> hmm, should all work as the other bits are the same as for animation triggers 19:22:19 <peter1138> only need to test the PBS bit 19:22:57 <V453000> I wonder how many times will it take me to realize that it really is a bad idea to compile a new version of a newgrf when the newgrf is loaded in a running unpaused game 19:23:22 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 19:23:32 <peter1138> should be fine 19:23:40 <peter1138> the file isn't closed 19:25:14 <V453000> well yeah but openttd will crash :D 19:25:33 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:25:35 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:25:35 <peter1138> don't see why 19:25:49 <peter1138> unless the file is closed & reopened then it will still use the old one 19:26:19 <frosch123> do windows file system support unlinking files? 19:26:23 <peter1138> right... where is path reservation done? 19:26:31 <frosch123> or do the files remain in the directory till closure? 19:27:12 <frosch123> likely in train_cmd 19:27:38 <frosch123> maybe look for the level crossing 19:27:44 <V453000> the old one isnt there, it gets overwritten upon compile :) 19:27:47 <frosch123> it also has some trigger on reservation 19:27:53 <peter1138> V453000, windows? 19:27:56 <V453000> yes 19:28:03 <peter1138> V453000, cos that's not how it works on other OSes 19:28:09 <V453000> :D ok 19:28:20 <V453000> I usually pause teh game and reload_newgrfs, but sometimes I forget :> 19:28:32 <frosch123> pretty sure it also works like that on DOS 19:30:03 <peter1138> hmm 19:30:15 <peter1138> there's an UpdateLevelCrossing() in *UN*reserverailtrack :p 19:31:29 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:31:34 <peter1138> ah, BarCrossing 19:32:29 <peter1138> hm, so... 19:32:44 <peter1138> Trigger should work on the whole platform 19:33:00 <frosch123> the whole platform is reserved 19:33:07 <peter1138> yeah but tile-by-tile 19:33:23 <frosch123> only trigger it on the north tile then? 19:33:47 <frosch123> does it also trigger when a train enters a station without pbs? 19:33:54 <frosch123> by reserving the tiles under the train 19:33:56 <peter1138> i train reserves platform (using PBS) 19:34:03 <peter1138> that's all it says 19:35:02 <peter1138> i suppose i could make it a tile-only trigger 19:37:39 <frosch123> are the some random bits shared between the tiles of a platform trigger? 19:37:48 <peter1138> some are 19:37:49 <frosch123> hmm likely wouldn't matter either 19:37:52 <peter1138> probably not 19:38:08 <frosch123> but the non-pbs reservation should not trigger it then 19:38:22 <frosch123> might look weird if the platform changes following the train upon entering :p 19:40:24 <Supercheese> I dunno, people see the train and begin walking towards the point of entry as the train pulls into the station 19:40:31 <Supercheese> could make sense 19:44:05 <peter1138> cock 19:44:10 <peter1138> that code is only called for NPF :p 19:45:22 <peter1138> or seems to be the case :S 19:48:57 <peter1138> and then it only reserves the first tile. what. 19:50:22 <peter1138> ReserveRailStationPlation... yeah 19:50:58 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-094-223-106-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:52:50 *** Wakou [~stephen@host109-154-52-114.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:55:12 <peter1138> well then i can use TA_PLATFORM still 19:58:16 <fonsinchen> Hi 20:01:41 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/stationtrigger.diff 20:01:47 <peter1138> hi fonsinchen 20:04:11 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:10:01 <frosch123> is there no anim trigger for platform reservervation? 20:10:11 <peter1138> don't think so 20:10:16 <peter1138> that would be more useful, you'd've thought 20:10:44 <DDR> OK, all is back to it's natural order. From only having 1/5th of NCG's profit last morning, I now have 5x his profit this morning. 20:17:08 *** St3f [~Anonymous@5ED29E55.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:18:35 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:20:11 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 20:25:11 *** St3f [~Anonymous@5ED29E55.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:26:06 *** St3f [~Anonymous@46.144.14.54] has joined #openttd 20:34:11 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RandomAction2#random-triggers <- makes sense? 20:37:41 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 20:37:43 <drac_boy> hi 20:53:47 *** Lakie [~Lakie@cpc3-wals9-2-0-cust51.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: .] 20:56:28 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:56:45 <Wolf01> hello o/ 20:56:54 <drac_boy> how're you Wolf01? 20:57:08 <Wolf01> tired, and you? 20:59:01 <drac_boy> doing ok..just looking online a bit now :/ 21:05:50 <peter1138> frosch123, yeah 21:06:23 <peter1138> 00 // first bit to rerandomise 21:06:29 <peter1138> oh, that's right, sorry 21:06:36 <peter1138> no triggers :D 21:06:59 <peter1138> not entirely sure if waiting triggers works 21:07:11 <peter1138> mainly because i'm not sure how it's meant to work 21:07:33 <frosch123> well, they are only stored at the station 21:07:50 <frosch123> so, if you mix parts with different triggers, it will likely not work 21:08:28 <frosch123> so, multiple triggers for stations are kind of broken by design 21:08:45 <frosch123> not as bad as triggers for the "related vehicle" though :p 21:08:53 <peter1138> i think so 21:08:59 <peter1138> it's all a bit messy 21:09:07 <frosch123> random action is totally broken :) 21:09:09 <peter1138> as long as its deterministic, i don't care :D 21:09:16 <frosch123> well, except for houses and industries 21:09:22 <frosch123> csabo reinvented it or so :p 21:09:27 <peter1138> heh 21:09:38 <frosch123> csaboka was the name right? 21:10:35 <peter1138> yeah, didn't he join us briefly before seeing it wasn't much better :p 21:11:15 <frosch123> he made the grass density on tree tiles 21:11:48 <peter1138> what's that? 21:11:48 <frosch123> kind of remade his first ttdp patch into his first ottd patch 21:12:04 <frosch123> in ottd 0.5 trees always had 3/3 grass only 21:12:14 <frosch123> in 0.6 they gained 0/3 .. 2/3 21:13:30 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:13:34 <peter1138> ah 21:16:07 <peter1138> hmm, yeah, the reservation trigger is called for each tile when not reserved 21:16:52 <peter1138> i guess it *is* reserved 21:16:53 <peter1138> but... 21:20:10 <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> well yeah but openttd will crash :D <-- i frequently have this problem as well. recompile grf, forget to reload_newgrfs, unpause => BAM! 21:20:28 <V453000> exactly 21:20:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if i made a report on flyspray... 21:21:00 <peter1138> why would you? 21:21:13 <frosch123> newer nml unlink before rewriting afaik 21:21:14 <V453000> I didnt even dare :D I didnt consider it that unexpectedly broken 21:21:26 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: just increase your spritecache size 21:21:41 <frosch123> and make sure all are loaded 21:22:09 <frosch123> e.g. by clicking through all sprites in the alignment gui 21:22:29 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: because it's a crash! 21:22:39 <Eddi|zuHause> no program should ever crash on anything that the user does 21:25:03 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/stationtrigger2.diff < version that won't trigger unreserved stations 21:26:05 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, i don't think changing data files underneath us counts 21:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: well if it disturbes newgrf development, it's rather serious 21:27:50 <peter1138> fix your oS 21:27:52 <peter1138> *OS 21:29:25 <michi_cc> peter1138: Doxygen for StationRandomTrigger and TriggerStationRandomisation is missing and has to be updated for TryReserveRailTrack, but otherwise patch looks nice. 21:29:39 <peter1138> oh right, doxygen again :p 21:38:54 *** Celestar_ [~vici@dslb-178-002-031-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 21:39:35 <frosch123> hmm, mart3p, Celestar, Maedhros, ... 21:39:53 <frosch123> is there some ottd reunion going on? 21:43:34 *** St3f [~Anonymous@46.144.14.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:46:34 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:51:13 <peter1138> tbh 21:51:15 <peter1138> me, even 21:52:14 <frosch123> did the end of the world remind you what really matters in live? :p 21:52:48 <peter1138> :p 21:52:56 <peter1138> planetmaker, is motion_counter going to be updated? 21:53:12 <NGC3982> You know what i hate? 21:53:33 <NGC3982> When the damn towns don't change rating 21:53:57 <NGC3982> Even when i plant the bloody Taiga forest around it. 21:54:01 <frosch123> you got that the wrong way around; it's they who hate you 21:54:24 <frosch123> anyway, it's only the first tree on a tile that matters 21:54:34 <frosch123> so first bulldoze all trees in range of the town 21:54:36 <frosch123> then replant 21:54:38 <NGC3982> And that my personal inflation fuckup makes bribing impossible. 21:54:44 *** St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:54:46 <NGC3982> Seriosly? It's that easy? 21:55:02 <frosch123> all game mechanics are simple if you know how to exploit them 21:55:14 <frosch123> ottd is a _hard_ game for someone who plays for the first time 21:55:40 * NGC3982 has been playing for years and still has no clue of this. 21:55:44 <NGC3982> s/has/had 21:55:57 <planetmaker> peter1138, might or might not. But is there a real need for it? I'm sure it was a concious decision 21:56:04 <frosch123> that rule applies to all games unless they are mainly affected by human opponents 21:56:09 <peter1138> well it's... incorrect! 21:56:20 <peter1138> and someone wanted a 3-cycle animation, which glitches with 0..15 21:56:37 <Supercheese> eGRVTS uses a 3-frame animation 21:56:42 <Supercheese> I was borrowing the sprites 21:56:49 <Supercheese> was/am/will 21:57:01 <NGC3982> frosch123: It only made it worse. 21:57:40 <frosch123> usually you can always get it to "good" to build a station that way 21:57:58 <NGC3982> It works at "Poor" 21:58:08 <NGC3982> I can't get it past "Very poor" 21:58:56 <Terkhen> good night 21:59:46 <Supercheese> the formula of bulldoze many trees then replant has always worked for me 22:00:03 <NGC3982> How much do you bulldoze? 22:00:10 <V453000> use magic dozer if you play with towns :) or use trees 22:00:15 <Supercheese> more than enough :P 22:00:24 <planetmaker> well, I guess we could change motion_counter to return var (0x46 & 0xFFFFFF00) >> 8. But I'd like to talk at least with yexo or Hirundo about that 22:00:29 <NGC3982> V453000: It's multiplayer. 22:00:42 <V453000> trees it is :) 22:01:01 <frosch123> start a new company, and make that one remove the trees 22:01:16 <planetmaker> I see the point that your usecase is kinda broken frequently, Supercheese - which certainly is not intended 22:01:20 <frosch123> but don't tell anyone, i told you that 22:01:28 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/FSVGt.png 22:01:39 <Supercheese> bulldoze more 22:01:41 <NGC3982> frosch123: That's cheating. :P 22:01:44 <NGC3982> More? Ok.. 22:01:44 <planetmaker> dirty, bad, frosch123 ;-) 22:02:07 <frosch123> NGC3982: at least a whole screen 22:02:17 <frosch123> water sucks ofc, there are no trees 22:02:17 <NGC3982> .. 22:02:21 <V453000> im going to ban frosch123 the moment he joins our server :> 22:02:35 <NGC3982> Nothing happends. 22:02:36 <V453000> k maybe not :) 22:02:58 <frosch123> i never joined your public server :) 22:03:05 <planetmaker> :D 22:03:26 <planetmaker> V453000, his method won't work... he can't make a new company on the PS :D 22:03:28 <V453000> we have more than just public server :) 22:03:47 <V453000> true pm true :) 22:03:57 <V453000> but ps usually has magic dozer when we use towns 22:03:58 <V453000> so ye 22:04:24 <NGC3982> PS? 22:04:59 <V453000> public server 22:05:09 <NGC3982> Magic bulldozer on a multiplayer server? 22:05:35 <V453000> ever heard of cooperation? :) 22:05:51 <NGC3982> Yes, and i actually joined once 22:05:58 <NGC3982> And it was actually -your- game. 22:06:08 <V453000> :) 22:06:17 <NGC3982> "Who the hell built a bus station here?" 22:06:18 <NGC3982> :D 22:06:33 <frosch123> you got banned for building a bus station? :) 22:06:52 <NGC3982> No, not banned. I joined a co-op thinking it was somethis completely different 22:07:00 <NGC3982> They encouraged me to stay and watch, though. 22:07:23 <Supercheese> I dunno about the motion_counter thing, it seems to work fine with eGRVTS, or at least no one has yet complained 22:07:58 <NGC3982> If i remember correctly, i didnt. I was too embarrassed. :3 22:08:04 <Supercheese> the 3-frame animated horses are nice :3 22:08:11 <V453000> well there have to be -some- rules when you cooperate with others :) we have games where you can do literally anything too, though 22:08:22 <NGC3982> hehe, yeah 22:08:25 <NGC3982> Hehe* 22:08:27 <V453000> also being embarassed is wrong :) no reason 22:09:06 <Supercheese> I'd play multiplayer, but there's that pesky max-grf-limit 22:09:09 <Supercheese> :P 22:09:49 <NGC3982> My god 22:10:02 <NGC3982> I just killed the server 22:10:09 <Supercheese> really? :S 22:10:17 <V453000> not our server I hope 22:10:26 <NGC3982> My own 22:10:28 <NGC3982> Dag nabbit 22:10:41 <NGC3982> DDR: I'm sorry. I managed to kill the server :/. 22:10:42 <peter1138> ah 22:10:46 <peter1138> i forgot about cargo translation 22:12:28 <peter1138> would TranslateRefitMask() in newgrf.cpp do the job? 22:12:33 <frosch123> i think so 22:12:52 <frosch123> it works after reservation phase 22:12:56 <frosch123> and stationprops are in activation 22:13:49 <peter1138> hmm 22:13:54 <peter1138> type B or type A... what 22:14:20 <frosch123> ah, yeah, just call it for grf version 7 22:14:26 <frosch123> keep it unchanged below 22:14:31 <peter1138> type B == untranslated? 22:14:34 <frosch123> yes 22:14:39 <frosch123> B is slot 22:14:48 <frosch123> A is bit (translated if ctt present) 22:15:22 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 22:15:32 *** Celestar_ [~vici@dslb-178-002-031-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:16:57 <frosch123> it's basically what GetCargoTranslation does when setting the last param to 'false' 22:17:04 <frosch123> but that is actually a nop for grf version < 7 22:17:21 <frosch123> and 'false' and 'true' are the same for grf version >= 7 22:19:42 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/stationtrigger3.diff < doxygenated and translationtabled 22:22:31 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: was that not grfv8? 22:22:46 <peter1138> "With GRF version 7 and above, the interpretation of bits changes. Instead of climate-dependent cargo slot numbers (type B), you have to set the bits of climate-independent cargo ID (type A)." 22:23:26 <Eddi|zuHause> ah well... i know nothing :p 22:23:50 <planetmaker> technically the enum misses doxygen, also when it's pretty obvious 22:24:03 <frosch123> + TriggerStationAnimation(st, st->xy, SAT_TRAIN_LOADS); <- isn't the st->xy wrong there? isn't it a platform anim trigger as well? 22:24:09 <Eddi|zuHause> in order to understand recursion, you first need to understand recursion 22:24:45 <peter1138> frosch123, i think so as well 22:25:10 <peter1138> planetmaker, oh yeah :S 22:26:20 *** Wakou [~stephen@host109-154-52-114.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:28:09 <peter1138> frosch123, it should crash if st->xv isn't a rail station tile... 22:31:09 <frosch123> should changing a shared bit mark the whole station dirty? 22:31:54 <frosch123> hmm, makes no sense anyway 22:33:15 <peter1138> hmm, looks like SAT_CARGO_TAKEN was not done by me 22:33:20 <peter1138> which means it missed it :S 22:33:27 <peter1138> damn half-finished patches 22:33:46 *** Gruff [52012ef6@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:33:52 <peter1138> *i missed it 22:35:00 <Gruff> Any idea folks how I can get TTD to work on Windows 7.... I keep getting messages saying this system does not support full screen and then just a blank looking dos screen :( 22:35:16 <peter1138> hmm, i wonder if that blows up with overlong trains 22:35:51 <Wolf01> Gruff, try dosbox or use OpenTTD instead 22:35:52 <drac_boy> gruff you need the patch 22:36:29 <frosch123> you assume he really means ttd? :) 22:36:59 <frosch123> Gruff: try setting fullscreen_bpp to 32 in openttd.cfg 22:37:33 <peter1138> blank looking dos screen eh 22:37:53 <Gruff> ok I tried open but wouldn't know what "patch" I would need and how all that works (getting old lol) 22:38:14 <Gruff> yes Peter a blank dos screen and the annoying message :( 22:38:37 <planetmaker> Gruff, unless you try to start openttd, your issue is off-topic here :-) 22:38:59 <planetmaker> in the case of openttd, do you have like crash.log crash.dmp or so ? 22:39:51 <frosch123> who said it crashed? 22:40:00 <planetmaker> no-one :-) 22:41:03 <Gruff> I am so confused 22:42:01 <planetmaker> let's start easy: where did you get from the programme you like to start? 22:42:21 <NGC3982> When playing with breakdowns, is there any reason other then estethics, using buoy's instead of ship depots? 22:42:42 <peter1138> interesting, seems turning around an overlong train now makes it leave the platform 22:42:50 <peter1138> so it still triggers on the right tile 22:43:11 <frosch123> NGC3982: ship depots block the path for opponents 22:43:30 <NGC3982> I see. 22:43:37 <frosch123> peter1138: i think that always was the case 22:43:44 <planetmaker> or can you provide a screenshot, Gruff ? 22:43:52 <frosch123> NGC3982: also some time ago ships always left depots towards south or so 22:43:58 <NGC3982> Yes, i noticed. 22:44:08 <peter1138> frosch123, i'm sure it used to just turn the train around. and then cause crashes when v->tile wasn't a station tile 22:45:56 <frosch123> night 22:45:59 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f57df.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:31 <peter1138> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD4oOe-8Bk8 < made a video of it :p 22:47:38 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:49:25 <NGC3982> haha 22:49:25 <NGC3982> :D 22:49:27 <Gruff> Screenshot? 22:49:50 <NGC3982> Transformer Ferry 22:50:09 <Gruff> Never mind I give up. Enjoy the game folks I used to love it. Take care and thanks for trying to help :) 22:50:32 <peter1138> Gruff, you give up easily 22:50:33 <planetmaker> well. if you can't answer any of our questions, we indeed can't help, I'm afraid 22:50:49 <peter1138> Gruff, if you get a DOS window, it sounds like you're trying to play good old original TTD 22:50:50 <planetmaker> we have no functional crystal balls 22:51:26 <glx> dos version can't run on 64 bits windows 22:51:28 <peter1138> Gruff, that isn't going to work on modern systems, so you should take a look at http://www.openttd.org/ 22:51:46 <peter1138> Gruff, it's got a few more things, but i like to think the essence is still there 22:52:27 <Wolf01> "a few" :D 22:52:53 <glx> and windows version can't run without ttdpatch since at least winXP IIRC 22:53:46 <Gruff> Oh I will try that then Pete. Thanks 22:54:33 <Gruff> I've been trying to get it to work for 2 days mind.... I'm not the best on a computer but I do love the game 22:55:05 <glx> very old games on modern OS is often problematic 22:55:35 <planetmaker> that's why I asked whether you run openttd or something else... :x 22:55:46 <planetmaker> I give up. Good night 22:55:50 <Gruff> lol I wouldn't know 22:56:04 <planetmaker> who then would which programme *you* try to start?! 22:56:20 <planetmaker> who then would know where you got the programme from you try to start?! 22:56:31 <planetmaker> who then could make a screenshot of the empty window?! 22:56:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r24904 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2013-01-10 22:56:49 UTC) 22:56:56 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r22746): "Train loads/unloads cargo" station animation triggers on individual platform 22:57:04 <NGC3982> glx: Actually, i would say: Yes, it used to. 22:57:23 <NGC3982> glx: But Windows 7 have proven to run old PC games like magic. 22:57:29 <NGC3982> Or at least very easily fixed. 22:57:36 * drac_boy is still waiting for someone to progress on updating that other openttd build with working dos network stacks 22:57:36 <NGC3982> Not related to the discussion, that is. 22:57:39 <drac_boy> ^_^ 22:57:55 <Gruff> planet you sound like you just want to be rude. No need peter is a nice person that understands I'm not clued up on this computer talk.... or whatever. 22:58:06 <Supercheese> derp 22:58:33 <Gruff> Oh and by the way.... Pete I love you that link is working great :) 22:58:46 <planetmaker> ... 22:58:54 <Supercheese> "let's start easy: where did you get from the programme you like to start?" 22:58:57 <Supercheese> how is that rude? 22:59:01 <planetmaker> first entry on ignore. One finally after a long time again 22:59:32 <Supercheese> (also I don't think that question was ever given a response...) 22:59:49 <peter1138> Gruff, you're welcome :) 23:00:43 <NGC3982> Hey i'm Gruff, i'm not so Gruff - Aaaans we're the Game Gruff's. 23:01:07 <V453000> those new locks look terrible, sorry :( 23:01:16 <NGC3982> Locks? :) 23:01:27 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:01:37 <glx> new ? 23:01:42 <peter1138> i've not changed the looks! 23:02:03 <NGC3982> peter1138: I love that "That's not meant to happen" video. 23:02:11 <V453000> no but the way how the ship moves looks broken to me 23:02:14 <NGC3982> Bouncy glitches and stuff 23:03:01 <peter1138> heh 23:06:38 *** Gruff [52012ef6@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:06:47 *** Gruff [52012ef6@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 23:12:33 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-094-223-106-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:34 <NGC3982> Eh 23:13:36 <NGC3982> Wait what. 23:14:09 <NGC3982> In the Sailing Ships NewGRF, did i just notice the boat rising a bit over water level when unloading goods? 23:14:30 <Supercheese> As it gets loaded, it gets heavier and sinks down a pixel, no? 23:14:35 <Supercheese> vice versa for unloaded 23:14:47 <NGC3982> That is very nice. 23:14:49 <NGC3982> Very noce. 23:14:52 <NGC3982> -o+i. 23:14:53 <Supercheese> FISH does that too 23:15:00 <NGC3982> I love how you guys think of everything. 23:15:03 <Supercheese> and perhaps even newships 23:15:07 <NGC3982> At least sometimes. 23:15:11 <NGC3982> :P 23:28:48 <Wolf01> 'night 23:28:53 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:30:15 *** Gruff [52012ef6@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:47:09 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 23:49:14 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:49:32 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:50:52 <NGC3982> I just noticed how extreme a FIRS Coal>Metal>Eng.Sup>Coal system can be with boats. 23:51:28 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:39 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:59:12 *** Celestar_ [~vici@mnch-4d04f5b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd