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00:00:44 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 00:06:14 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04cc21.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:08:02 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:20 <DDR> That sounded ominous. 00:30:50 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:32:40 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:35:53 <NGC3982> :D 00:35:57 <NGC3982> Well, you can look at it first hand 00:36:28 <DDR> It /looks/ ominous, too. 00:36:47 <NGC3982> hehe 00:51:53 *** WardH [Ward@ip45-152-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:56:16 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 00:58:49 * Supercheese adds a horse & rider to Eyecandy road vehicles 00:59:42 <NGC3982> :( 00:59:48 <NGC3982> DDR: You damn Canadian. 01:00:01 <NGC3982> Deprive me of my sleep like this 01:04:10 <drac_boy> heh Supercheese do the horses have a warning triangle flag draped over the back to comply with "low speed road vehicle" laws? :P 01:04:23 <Supercheese> No, they expire before those laws are enacted ;) 01:04:35 <Supercheese> of course, you can enable 'vehicles never expire' 01:04:41 <Supercheese> in which case, no :P 01:06:13 <Supercheese> Currently I only have the horse, I need to draw the rider on 01:06:13 <drac_boy> actually supercheese the law never expired 01:06:24 <Supercheese> No, the horses expire 01:06:30 <Supercheese> as in, are no longer available for purchase 01:06:30 <drac_boy> anything that has to run on paved public road at low speed has to have the triangle warning 01:06:34 <Supercheese> 'purchase' 01:06:36 <drac_boy> even in the 50's 01:06:37 <Supercheese> they're free :P 01:06:57 <Supercheese> These are currently set to expire sometime around 1930-1940 01:07:06 <Supercheese> i.e. removed from purchase list 01:07:25 <Supercheese> anyhow 01:07:27 * Supercheese draws 01:07:57 <Supercheese> The little Newstations people shall be of great inspiration 01:10:41 <NGC3982> :o 01:11:14 <Supercheese> blarg, problem is the horse is 3 px wide, and the Newstations people are 2px wide 01:11:23 <Supercheese> cannot half-pixel >< 01:13:01 <drac_boy> heh heh :P 01:13:54 <DDR> Hey, guys, is cargo delivery rate calculated as distance between industries or distance between the station tiles where I picked it up and dropped it off? 01:14:03 <Supercheese> Distance between Station Signs 01:14:05 <Supercheese> strangely enough :S 01:14:14 <DDR> Bizarre. 01:14:17 <Supercheese> indeed 01:14:26 <DDR> Excuse me while I go re-sign this station. 01:14:29 <drac_boy> I never cared much for that aspect :) 01:14:30 <Supercheese> ayup 01:14:38 <Supercheese> once you know the game mechanics, exploits abound 01:15:22 * Supercheese wonders if the station sign thing is mentioned on the wiki anywhere 01:15:58 <Supercheese> Yep 01:16:00 <Supercheese> http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Delivery_payment_rates 01:16:06 <Supercheese> "Distance is measured between the name-labeled tiles of the stations, not from the industries or by vehicle distance traveled." 01:16:50 <DDR> I was looking on the wiki page, but I missed that line. 01:17:53 <DDR> Oh, interesting, so theoretically a diagonal train makes more money than a straight one. 01:18:27 <Supercheese> all sorts of time-warpy stuff happens with diagonal trains 01:20:51 <DDR> Second question, does cargo only start depreciating in value once you pick it up? 01:21:14 <Supercheese> only while loaded in vehicles, yes 01:21:19 <DDR> Nice. 01:21:52 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-012-127.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:21:54 <DDR> Third question: Does station rating have any impact on how much cargo there is to pick up, if there is no competitor? 01:22:14 <drac_boy> ddr as long as its over 50% I doubt it 01:23:01 <DDR> Thanks. That pretty much clears it up for me. 01:25:32 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:28:44 <Supercheese> Station rating determines how much goodies you get from industries/houses 01:28:51 <Supercheese> If you have 100% rating, you get all the stoof 01:28:59 <Supercheese> if you have less, less stoof fer you 01:29:39 <Supercheese> how much of the goodies* 02:07:04 <Supercheese> Holy cow 02:07:12 <Supercheese> the horse & rider looks amazing, if I do say so myself 02:36:31 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 02:54:12 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 03:35:27 <Supercheese> Anyone can feel free to translate Eyecandy Road Vehicles http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=56780&p=1061151#p1061151 03:35:53 <Supercheese> Note that the current "English" is American English, and that British/Australian Englishes are valid translations 03:40:45 <Supercheese> e.g. Mail truck --> Post truck 03:40:50 <Supercheese> or "lorry" 03:40:52 <Supercheese> etc. 03:42:29 *** roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.84.56] has joined #openttd 03:49:42 <Supercheese> of course there's very few GMT -8 folks in here :P 04:07:01 *** mycookie [~mycookie@d173-181-60-88.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 04:09:22 *** mycookie [~mycookie@d173-181-60-88.abhsia.telus.net] has left #openttd [] 04:26:39 *** St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:29:12 *** roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.84.56] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:41:22 *** jack [~jack@112.170.129.172] has joined #openttd 04:54:10 *** jack [~jack@112.170.129.172] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:14:01 *** jack [~jack@112.170.129.172] has joined #openttd 05:15:03 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 05:15:10 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 05:21:59 *** dadymax [~MG@213.232.245.82] has joined #openttd 05:44:49 *** dadymax [~MG@213.232.245.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:47:07 <Supercheese> Man, code is so easy, it's the graphics that are tough to produce 05:54:03 <Supercheese> even sound effects are way easier than graphics @_@ 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD42A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD56E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:06:39 * Supercheese seems to be talking to himself 06:21:19 <Supercheese> Hah, crashed OTTD 06:21:43 <Supercheese> Although it is my modified version, have to see if it crashes in trunk 06:22:15 <Supercheese> Oh, I tried to import a stereo .wav, whoops, needs to be mono 06:22:45 <Supercheese> NML let me, but OTTD complained :P 06:34:54 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:36:07 * Supercheese is very glad the 64kb sfx limit was removed 06:38:05 *** jack [~jack@112.170.129.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:43:10 <Flygon> What? 06:43:12 <Flygon> NOOOOOOO 06:43:16 <Supercheese> was ist 06:43:16 <Flygon> B-b-b-but 06:43:23 <Flygon> 64kb should be enough for anyone! 06:43:28 <Supercheese> pfff 06:43:43 <Supercheese> You ever made a grf with sound effects? 06:43:56 <Supercheese> That limit sucked 06:43:58 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has joined #openttd 06:43:58 <Flygon> Except for that time that the guys that ported Cannon Fodder to the Game Boy Color and decided to add an FMV intro... 06:44:03 <Flygon> And I was making a bad joke :p 06:44:08 * Supercheese knows 06:44:11 <Supercheese> :P 06:44:56 <Flygon> (that FMV intro is absurd... I can't believe they found peeps willing to write tight-knit video codecs for the Z80 in 2001...) 06:45:32 <Flygon> (even worse when you consider needing PCM support, and the ability to modify the palette's on-the-fly without issues @_@) 06:46:59 <Supercheese> let's see, what time is it down under anyway... GMT +someodd 06:47:21 <Supercheese> So, like, 8-11 AM Jan 11 is my guess 06:47:32 <Flygon> It's 5:47PM Friday 06:47:34 <Supercheese> Bah 06:47:41 <Supercheese> didn't add nearly enough hours 06:47:43 <Supercheese> :P 06:47:47 <Flygon> :p 06:48:02 <Supercheese> although you guys have a few timezones there no? 06:48:08 <Flygon> Not very many 06:48:13 <Supercheese> 3-4 06:48:17 <Flygon> In Winter, it's just 3 06:48:21 <peter1138> moin 06:48:21 <Flygon> In Summer, around 5... 06:48:30 <Flygon> And this isn't counting our islands 06:48:32 <Supercheese> Continental US has 4, not sure how DST bollockses that up 06:48:34 <Flygon> And other claimed territories 06:48:51 * Supercheese wonders how to conjugate the verb "bollocks" 06:48:57 <Supercheese> presuming it can be made a verb :P 06:53:31 <peter1138> you bollocksed that up 06:53:58 *** Celestar [~vici@dslb-188-110-173-129.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 06:55:05 <Supercheese> :D 06:57:16 <Supercheese> Oh poo, triggers are not possible for objects in random switches 06:57:28 <Supercheese> newobjects that is 06:57:39 <peter1138> hmm? 06:57:44 <Supercheese> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Random_switch 06:58:48 <Supercheese> I dunno how to say it in NFO-speak 06:58:49 <peter1138> what would it trigger on? 06:58:56 <Supercheese> 256 ticks I guess 06:59:06 <Supercheese> Tileloop 06:59:26 <Supercheese> Usecase: I have seagull newobjects, I'd like them to emit different sounds randomly 06:59:46 <Supercheese> I presume that requires re-randomization 06:59:48 <peter1138> no 06:59:51 <peter1138> well 06:59:52 <peter1138> maybe 07:00:00 <Supercheese> could easily be wrong 07:00:03 <peter1138> triggers can't emit sounds 07:00:04 <Supercheese> let me see... 07:00:11 <peter1138> they just change the random bits 07:00:19 <peter1138> which can change graphics 07:00:40 <Supercheese> I currently return a randomly chosen sound effect at a certain animation frame 07:00:46 <peter1138> if there is a sound effect callback then that can use the random bits to change the sound 07:00:56 <peter1138> animations... 07:01:00 <peter1138> oh god this game is too complex! 07:01:02 <Supercheese> but of course that sound effect is the same each time, just randomly chosen at buildtime 07:01:18 <Supercheese> same per tile anyhow 07:01:31 <peter1138> yes you could determine that sound effect based on the random bits 07:02:01 <peter1138> Supercheese, submit it as a feature request, tileloop trigger :) 07:02:01 <Supercheese> I was hoping to have it re-randomize each time it hits that certain animation frame 07:02:33 <Supercheese> okie dokie 07:02:49 <Supercheese> second report from this .grf, it seems :P 07:03:12 <peter1138> well there might be some other way of doing it 07:03:19 <Supercheese> that's what I'm wondering 07:04:11 <Supercheese> Hmmm 07:04:22 <Supercheese> anim_control seems to already have triggers 07:04:25 <Supercheese> lemme try that 07:04:41 <peter1138> animation control has random bits in var 10 07:05:01 <Supercheese> so it does, now to wrangle some code 07:05:14 <peter1138> is that the callback that makes the sound? 07:05:32 <Supercheese> return sound in high byte it seems 07:05:41 <peter1138> ah yes 07:05:49 <peter1138> all animation callbacks, heh 07:06:09 <peter1138> next animation frame can do random bits too 07:06:14 <peter1138> but not mentioned for objects 07:06:17 <Supercheese> that's what I was using 07:06:19 <peter1138> could be added probably 07:06:40 <Supercheese> it seems to be mentioned 07:06:52 <Supercheese> maybe I was Doing It Wrong⢠07:07:22 <peter1138> it's specifically not mentioned for objects 07:07:31 <Supercheese> Seems to be mentioned in NML 07:08:11 <Supercheese> Hmm, the problem is how to make use of the random bits 07:08:24 <peter1138> test var 10 07:08:40 <peter1138> treat it as a switch case 07:08:53 <peter1138> not a random one 07:08:59 <peter1138> at least, i think 07:09:06 <Supercheese> so no random switches 07:09:08 <Supercheese> hmm 07:09:43 <Supercheese> Oh I have to set a flag first 07:12:42 <Supercheese> what's the range of the random stuff 07:12:47 <Supercheese> 0..8? 07:14:28 <Supercheese> and furthermore, are the random bits re-randomized every so often? 07:15:19 <peter1138> you get a full 32 bits of random data 07:15:24 <peter1138> you probably won't need them 07:15:33 <peter1138> they're not stored, so they're different every time its called 07:15:53 <peter1138> *it's 07:16:06 <peter1138> won't need all of them, rather 07:16:41 <Supercheese> Jeez, 32 bits, that's like, a zillion 07:16:51 <peter1138> 4.2 thousand million 07:16:54 <peter1138> approx 07:17:01 <peter1138> how many different sounds did you want? 07:17:01 <Supercheese> yeah, loads 07:17:09 <Supercheese> 3-4 07:17:21 <Supercheese> I can easily do more or less if it's convenient 07:17:32 <Supercheese> I'm just grabbing random snippets from a 1 min seagull .wav 07:17:40 <peter1138> mask with & 3 for 4 options 07:17:50 <peter1138> or mod with % 3 for 3 options 07:18:22 <peter1138> mask is more efficient, but only good for power of 2s 07:18:28 <Supercheese> probably gonna use mod 07:18:56 <peter1138> that might be considered micro-optimising though :p 07:19:05 <Supercheese> as long as it works 07:20:34 <Supercheese> I have this snip of code from the NML specs, I don't even know how it works but it does :P 07:21:01 <peter1138> :d 07:21:03 <peter1138> er 07:21:04 <peter1138> :D 07:21:10 <peter1138> had caps lock on :p 07:21:36 <peter1138> hmm, nobody commented after my lock video 07:21:44 <Supercheese> well, we commented on IRC 07:21:46 <Supercheese> but not in the thread 07:21:59 <peter1138> oh, i went to bed after it :p 07:22:13 <Supercheese> It looks weird with the default lock graphics, but with TTDPatch-esque locks it'll look great 07:22:24 <Supercheese> IMO anyway 07:23:02 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:24:07 <peter1138> what's the difference? 07:24:17 <Supercheese> Don't TTDP locks look different? 07:24:24 <Supercheese> than the ones in your video 07:24:32 <peter1138> mb's picture is a bit more detailed on the sides, but it's basically the same 07:25:02 <peter1138> clearly we need... 07:25:05 <peter1138> newgrf locks! :D 07:25:13 <Supercheese> Well, to rephrase, with Better⢠lock graphics, it will look great 07:25:39 <Supercheese> and even without, it is still better than current OTTD behavior 07:25:49 <Supercheese> an improvement overall, for sure 07:26:59 <Supercheese> can't make the lock gates shut/open based on ship presence though, can you 07:27:03 <Supercheese> hmm 07:27:55 <peter1138> currently there are no gates, heh 07:28:03 <Supercheese> Theoretical gates ;) 07:28:03 <peter1138> but yeah, still the blocking other ships issue 07:28:27 <Supercheese> oh you could shove multiple ships in the locks at once, hah 07:28:39 <Supercheese> ships are just noclip-fests aren't they? 07:28:50 <Supercheese> collision detection? bah, humbug 07:28:55 <peter1138> yup 07:29:02 <Supercheese> Seems Firefox 18 is available? 07:29:12 <Supercheese> little toastish popup 07:30:25 <Supercheese> if "toast" is the appropriate term 07:31:35 <Supercheese> Well, new code compiles 07:31:38 <Supercheese> let's see if it works 07:31:48 <Supercheese> there's such a vast gap between those two :P 07:34:15 <Supercheese> Huzzah, works as intended 07:34:22 <Supercheese> thanks for the help 07:38:43 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 07:39:09 <planetmaker> moin 07:39:31 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r24905 /trunk/src (12 files in 3 dirs) (2013-01-11 07:39:25 UTC) 07:39:32 <DorpsGek> -Feature(ish): Implement station randomisation triggers. 07:40:18 <peter1138> damn, i'm hungry 07:42:52 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.84.56] has joined #openttd 07:43:01 <peter1138> anyway that gets that one off my "nearly finished but forgotten about for a few years" pile 07:43:16 <peter1138> custom bridge heads was on it once :p 07:47:50 *** Celestar [~vici@dslb-188-110-173-129.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:49:35 *** Strid__ [~Strid@c-f6c6e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:51:16 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 08:02:43 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 08:03:49 <Supercheese> How does (animation_frame + nearby_tile_random_bits(0,0)) % 128 never return zero? :S 08:05:18 <peter1138> never? 08:05:22 <Supercheese> Seemingly 08:05:45 <peter1138> if the random bits never change 08:05:50 <peter1138> then it's very unlikely 08:06:23 <Supercheese> Problem is I'm borrowing code without understanding most of it :S 08:06:50 <Supercheese> (animation_frame + nearby_tile_random_bits(0,0)) % 24 08:07:02 <Supercheese> very conveniently cycles between 0 and 23 08:07:17 <Supercheese> Apparently mod 128 does not 08:07:25 <Supercheese> cycle between 0 and 127 that is 08:07:43 <peter1138> how many animation frames? 08:08:02 <Supercheese> Oh that might be preset 08:08:04 <Supercheese> hence my problems 08:08:14 <Supercheese> perhaps... the global animation_counter? 08:08:31 <Supercheese> might be better 08:09:52 <peter1138> if you've got 4 frames, and the random bits are between 1 and 123 (most likely) then you won't see 0 08:09:56 <Supercheese> again, borrowing without understanding :S 08:16:08 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 08:18:16 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 08:23:57 <Supercheese> I think I have improved my understand of the mechanics 08:24:17 <Supercheese> animation_frame has a preset max, I didn't get that at first 08:25:58 <Supercheese> it cycles between 0 and the frame_count defined in the object info 08:26:14 <Supercheese> if I'm not mistaken 08:26:22 <peter1138> it contains the current frame, yes, it's not a counter that just increments all the time 08:27:28 <Supercheese> I think I'll edit the wiki to make that more explicit 08:29:43 <peter1138> i always thought animation_frame is quite obvious 08:30:29 <Supercheese> I was treating it more like animation_counter 08:30:37 <Supercheese> it's late :P 08:30:47 <Supercheese> programming after midnight 08:31:37 <Supercheese> 0..(frame_count - 1) \ 08:31:40 <Supercheese> 0..(frame_count - 1) 08:31:43 <Supercheese> ignore that slash 08:31:47 <Supercheese> I hope that's correct 08:34:36 <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=45149&view=unread#p1061174 08:34:39 <Supercheese> lol, andy 08:38:21 <Supercheese> Ach, I'm a moron 08:38:41 <Supercheese> was attempting to decrease the probability of triggering using the wrong switch 08:43:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:47:19 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-184-213.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:49:01 *** Celestar [~vici@217.110.29.210] has joined #openttd 09:02:16 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:05:12 *** kamnet [4a83f122@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:05:24 <kamnet> Good morning 09:05:37 <Supercheese> Salve, amice 09:12:46 <peter1138> feck it's cold out there 09:13:05 <Supercheese> 22ºF here 09:13:12 <Supercheese> kinda cold 09:13:26 <Supercheese> negative some-odd Celsius 09:14:09 <peter1138> -2°C here 09:14:26 <peter1138> º is not a ° 09:15:40 <Supercheese> Hmm 09:15:52 <Supercheese> right you are 09:16:18 <Supercheese> º 09:16:24 <Supercheese> blarg 09:16:54 <peter1138> alt gr-shift-0 ;p 09:17:08 <Supercheese> I use a different method 09:17:10 <Supercheese> ° 09:17:13 <Supercheese> better 09:17:46 <Supercheese> A while back I was complaining about alt codes being very unintuitive, so I wrote an Autohotkey script which is much more intuitive IMO 09:18:07 <Supercheese> things like ::a`::á 09:18:13 <Supercheese> ::a~::ã 09:18:23 <Supercheese> ::n~::ñ 09:18:34 <Supercheese> ::sqrt(::â 09:18:39 <Supercheese> ::<=::†09:18:41 <Supercheese> and so on 09:19:27 <peter1138> áâà Àãạåãả 09:19:28 <peter1138> hmm 09:19:34 <kamnet> Nifty! 09:20:14 <Supercheese> my keyboard layout has no support for special vowel-chars like those 09:20:16 <peter1138> hmm, missed ÄÇÄ 09:20:31 <Supercheese> advantage of the script is it's easily extendable 09:20:32 <peter1138> just a standard uk layout here 09:20:37 <Supercheese> just have to think of hotkeys 09:20:51 <Supercheese> hotstrings, rather 09:21:43 <peter1138> ảȧ 09:21:53 <peter1138> ả = shift-altgr-a 09:21:58 <peter1138> ȧ = altgr-shift-a 09:22:01 <peter1138> confusing much? :p 09:22:03 <Supercheese> altgr? 09:22:05 <Supercheese> same as alt? 09:22:08 <peter1138> right alt key 09:22:22 <Supercheese> Yeah, mine doesn't do that by default 09:22:22 <Celestar> morning 09:22:27 <peter1138> (doesn't work the same on windows) 09:22:39 <Supercheese> but the script could do that, so yeah 09:22:54 <Supercheese> and works for other stuff 09:23:13 <Supercheese> e.g. Greek characters, :c:gamma<::γ 09:23:16 <Supercheese> :c:delta<::ÎŽ 09:23:18 <Celestar> what's the music driver of choice on linux today? allegro? 09:23:19 <Supercheese> :c:DELTA<::Î 09:23:46 <peter1138> dunno, i never use the game music 09:23:56 <peter1138> extmidi + pmidi used to work for me though 09:24:21 <Supercheese> I always run Winamp for the game music, since midi is just bleh for audio quality 09:24:39 <Supercheese> and some users have posted lovely renditions of TTD music with much better quality 09:25:17 <SpComb> timidity 09:26:23 <kamnet> Midi is just BLEH for audio quality? Tsk tsk tsk. 09:27:02 <Supercheese> I'm sure there are some fancy libraries or whatnot to make it nicer 09:27:05 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 09:27:14 <Supercheese> I'm not motivated enough to get them :P 09:27:23 <kamnet> Honestly, the problem is that there's just too much poor quality midi out there 09:27:52 <Supercheese> you can blame the 90s for that 09:27:59 <Supercheese> 80s too I guess 09:28:19 <kamnet> I've found a lot of great quality midi, many instruments, sophisticated layers and orechestration. 09:28:43 <kamnet> Much of the midi that is out there is a basic drum combined with either a really horrible horn, or a boring piano. 09:29:37 <kamnet> Eventually when I get around to posting my winter holiday music pack, you'll get to hear a lot of great sounding music. 09:30:14 <Supercheese> I wonder if comparing midi to fanfiction is a good analogy 09:30:21 <Supercheese> mostly rubbish but some good stuff :P 09:30:50 <kamnet> I don't think that would be too unkind. 09:31:14 <Supercheese> double negative :S 09:31:44 <kamnet> Honestly arranging midi is quite a lot like arranging a band or orchestra. There are very talented people who can do it well, but most people know just enough to be dangerous. 09:31:57 <Supercheese> another good analogy 09:32:12 <Supercheese> Broomhall did a superlative job 09:32:13 <kamnet> or painful. :D 09:32:37 <Supercheese> my favorite midis, since 1995 :) 09:32:37 <V453000> :D kist enough to be dangerous :D 09:32:39 <kamnet> Yep, he did. And he didn't have superfancy sound font libraries to work with. 09:34:05 <kamnet> Actually my next music project is going to be working w/ a very popular midi composer who arranges music for popular video games. A lot of the music I've already picked out, IMO, is reminiscent of Sim City 2000. 09:34:22 <kamnet> Except it's longer than 60 seconds... and actually sounds really good. 09:34:33 * Supercheese can't really remember Sim City 2k 09:34:53 <Supercheese> I didn't play it nearly as much as TTD or some other games 09:35:08 <Supercheese> I played the heck out of SimTower back in the day 09:35:12 <Supercheese> didn't have music IIRC 09:35:22 <kamnet> LOL. I remember what I thought I heard, which is likely right because I mostly heard it on crappy non-stereo computer speakers. A few years ago I went back and listened to it over my 5.1 surround sound system, and it's BAD. 09:35:42 <Celestar> did I mention that I hate Oracle? 09:36:50 <kamnet> Not yet today. 09:37:39 <Celestar> I hate Oracle :P 09:40:23 <Supercheese> Well, should sleep, approaching 2 AM 09:40:27 <Supercheese> farewell all 09:40:32 <kamnet> Goodnight! 09:40:46 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has left #openttd [] 09:42:57 <peter1138> midi is awesome 09:43:22 <peter1138> but yeah, a lot of midi *files* are poor though 09:46:54 <kamnet> I've heard toddlers banging on toy pianos sound better 09:46:56 <SpComb> and midi synths 09:50:02 <peter1138> i like my pianoteq, sounds pretty good 09:58:48 *** dadymax1 [~MG@213.232.245.82] has joined #openttd 10:10:49 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:29:31 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:29:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 10:31:47 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 10:33:59 *** kamnet [4a83f122@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:34:46 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-67-3.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:48:25 <peter1138> hmm, £22,800 over paid 10:49:55 <peter1138> way better deal than ppi i reckon 11:08:49 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-094-223-106-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 11:19:07 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 11:25:42 <Maedhros> is there any chance i could get a +v in #openttd.dev? 11:29:36 <peter1138> don't think i can 11:30:17 <peter1138> nothing to stop dev discussion in here 11:30:32 <Maedhros> fair enough 11:31:09 <Maedhros> fonsinchen: (re gradual loading) do you mean removing the setting, or removing gradual loading? 11:32:07 <fonsinchen> I'm not talking about removing anything. I'm trying to figure out in what ways I can change the behaviour without breaking anything. 11:32:23 <Maedhros> ok 11:32:43 <fonsinchen> For example are there situations where I can reserve for the full vehicle and incrementally load the reserved cargo with gradual loading? 11:35:23 <Maedhros> you mean when improved loading is disabled? 11:36:11 <Maedhros> as far as i remember gradual loading was originally written to follow the ttdpatch implementation, and didn't really have any conceptual interaction with anything else 11:36:47 <Maedhros> although it did have the effect of reducing loading times, and especially unloading times 11:40:01 <fonsinchen> It reduces unloading times? how does that work? 11:40:16 <fonsinchen> And what is the actual intention? Is that documented anywhere? 11:40:39 <fonsinchen> Improved loading takes no effect when no full-load order is given. 11:41:44 <fonsinchen> And, yes, otherwise gradual loading may only be interesting without improved loading. That's one of my theories. 11:42:23 <Maedhros> in TTD, when something arrives at a station it loads and unloads everything at that moment, and ignores any cargo that arrives at the station afterwards (without full load) 11:42:58 <Maedhros> it then tells the vehicle to wait at the station for a certain amount of time depending on how much cargo was unloaded (maybe also loaded? I don't remember that part) 11:43:13 <Maedhros> so if you had a long train it would all unload instantly and then wait for ages doing nothing 11:43:24 <Maedhros> whereas with gradual loading it'll leave as soon as it's empty 11:43:36 <V453000> interesting I didnt know that 11:43:51 <fonsinchen> However, with gradual loading it takes longer to actually unload the stuff 11:44:08 <Maedhros> yes, but leaves the station more quickly afterwards 11:44:39 <fonsinchen> I guess the difference is actually that with gradual loading GRFs can tell the load time whereas without they cannot. 11:45:27 <fonsinchen> Let's ask a different question: If I removed gradual loading and made it default to "on", would that annoy anyone and why? 11:45:31 <Maedhros> i was always annoyed with the default behaviour in passenger trains - a train would arrive, load what was there at that moment, and then wait without loading any more passengers when they appeared 11:45:48 <V453000> why would you remove in the first place? :d 11:46:15 <fonsinchen> Because it increases the complexity and it seems that no one wants that set to "off". 11:46:32 <fonsinchen> Or is there any reason to disable gradual loading? 11:46:47 <V453000> I know sometimes people use it to cheat long loading times 11:46:51 <V453000> other than that, probably not 11:48:08 <V453000> hm I guess that option indeed is quite useless 11:48:09 <Maedhros> personally i would never want to play without it (but i may be biased because i think i wrote it ;) 11:49:25 <fonsinchen> If you switch off gradual loading you'll also get some kind of "greedy" loading behaviour on a per-consist basis. 11:49:52 <fonsinchen> The first consist takes all it can get, then the second one and so on and possibly some later consist will stay empty. 11:50:05 <fonsinchen> With gradual loading on, the cargo is divided more evenly. 11:50:21 <fonsinchen> Is the greedy behaviour something someone may want? 11:50:59 <V453000> nah I cant really thing of any utility of the not gradual loading 11:51:04 <V453000> think 11:51:04 <V453000> duh 11:52:43 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: i think you miss the difference between "gradual loading" (step-by-step loading of vehicles) and "improved loading" (one vehicle gets all cargo until it is full, then the next one gets cargo...) 11:53:02 <Eddi|zuHause> those are two independent settings 11:54:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r24906 trunk/src/pbs.cpp (2013-01-11 11:54:12 UTC) 11:54:21 <DorpsGek> -Fix (24905): Don't trigger on path reservation for waypoints. 11:54:32 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:34 <fonsinchen> I know the difference. Without gradual loading however, non-full-load orders behave a bit like full load orders with improved loading. 11:58:02 <fonsinchen> The vehicle loads all it can load and waits a longer time afterwards. 11:58:19 <fonsinchen> It does not actually wait for more cargo afterwards, though. 11:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause> improved loading should only have an effect on full load orders 12:00:09 <dihedral> hello 12:00:13 <fonsinchen> I guess that the whole "improved loading" thing was a hackish fix for gradual loading removing that behaviour and leading to many half-full vehicles. 12:00:34 <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely. 12:01:05 <Eddi|zuHause> even without gradual loading, you get many half-full trains on a low-output industry when you have full load orders 12:01:40 <peter1138> improved loading came before gradual loading 12:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause> basically, full load was fairly counter-productive when you had more than one train 12:02:03 <fonsinchen> I see 12:02:03 <peter1138> what eddi said :p 12:02:26 <fonsinchen> That's because non-improved loading doesn't do anything on non-loading ticks... 12:03:25 <fonsinchen> Someone needs to get a big hammer and smash that loading algorithm to pieces. 12:03:30 <fonsinchen> What a mess ... 12:03:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it is... "grown" :p 12:04:38 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 12:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> improved loading was for a long time considered as the "why would you eveer need something else?" until the coop-people "broke" it 12:06:22 <Eddi|zuHause> (by having industries who produce faster than a single train can load it) 12:07:55 <fonsinchen> I guess I'll write a patch that only removes gradual loading and file a bug report for it. Let's see what comes out of that. 12:08:03 <V453000> how can you blame use for having too highly producing industries 12:08:05 <V453000> :D lol 12:09:02 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: you start sounding like andythenorth... 12:12:43 <peter1138> a lot of newgrf graphics are designed with gradual loading in mind 12:13:24 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:14:37 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 12:17:25 <fonsinchen> Of course "removing" means only "removing the setting", while switching it to "on". 12:17:54 <fonsinchen> As I gathered from the previous discussion there is no good reason to have that "off". 12:18:17 <fonsinchen> And anyone switching it off will at least get the potential for cheating as side effect. 12:20:34 <peter1138> not really, it's game-wide 12:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause> just remove both settings, and tell those pesky coopers to just use non-full-load orders :p 12:21:59 <Ammler> there are already way too few settings, do not remove the last standing ones, just make it nice defaults 12:22:25 <peter1138> too few settings? 12:22:30 <peter1138> not heard that complaint before 12:23:03 <Pinkbeast> I do think there's a risk of going down the GNOME3 route 12:23:26 <peter1138> rm table/settings.ini 12:23:26 <fonsinchen> Well, if we need a setting there, then its behaviour should be well-defined and there should be an explicit reason for having the setting. 12:23:34 <Ammler> I don't get the benefit of removing settings, if you just can set nice defaults 12:23:58 <peter1138> Ammler, well it makes the code full of special cases 12:24:02 <Pinkbeast> Ammler: Extra work to ensure the non-default settings continue to work. 12:24:03 <fonsinchen> Having settings to have more settings is pointless. It just increases code complexity and makes the code harder to maintain. 12:24:06 <Ammler> maybe if you really need, you could remove those from the gui and make it console settings only 12:24:37 <fonsinchen> Ammler: What exactly does the gradual loading setting do and why do you want the option to switch it off? 12:24:40 <peter1138> Ammler, you're missing the point :p 12:25:08 <Ammler> fonsinchen: I do not care about developemnt that is your task ;-) 12:25:27 <fonsinchen> That is about behaviour of the game not development. 12:25:50 <Ammler> removing it to make the code "easier" is development, imo 12:25:51 <fonsinchen> I want an answer like "It makes the last wagon in my trains green and I like that" 12:26:34 <fonsinchen> If I get an answer like that, I'll immediately stop with this. Otherwise I'll insist that it's useless. 12:27:16 <Ammler> it's not about my personl opinion, it is about the possibility someone sometime does want it 12:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: i guess it's one of those "allow legacy behaviour" settings 12:27:53 <peter1138> search for 'gradual loading' on the forums, quite a lot of people seem to want it turned off 12:28:19 <Ammler> it happens quite often you miss half a year of development and another nice setting is gone or a feature got introduced without setting 12:29:05 <peter1138> which settings have been removed? 12:29:50 <peter1138> i'm against adding new settings "just because", but also against removing old settings "just because" 12:29:52 <Ammler> well, worst I have in mind was the flip engine 12:30:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: that was not removed, it was clarified as newgrf-controlled 12:30:21 <peter1138> flip engine... 12:30:34 <peter1138> i don't think that was ever a setting 12:30:57 <Ammler> well, you call it a new feature without setting 12:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea what you mean by that 12:31:37 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: it changed gameplay and forced newgrf devs to update their grfs 12:31:39 <peter1138> so you think we should've added a setting to get around a feature to avoid graphics bugs? 12:32:07 <peter1138> flipping engines changes gameplay in absolutely no way 12:32:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: it didn't change gameplay, it changed eyecandy 12:32:37 <Ammler> well, I also play with eye sometimes :-) 12:32:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: and it's a trivial change to the newgrfs in question 12:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> only a very tiny fraction of the users was ever affected by the change 12:34:43 <V453000> YAY flip discussion :D 12:35:35 <V453000> it should have been the other way around that newgrfs would disable it explicitly, but ye 12:35:42 <fonsinchen> people apparently turn off gradual loading to simulate something like "percentage order". 12:35:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: anyway, it was a _carefully_ weighed decision that the change was needed to have a more controllable environment, and that a setting for it would be overkill 12:36:01 <Ammler> the feature was good, the missing setting was bad 12:36:12 <fonsinchen> As with gradual loading the vehicle only loads the cargo it finds when it first arrives and does not load more cargo arriving later. 12:37:01 <fonsinchen> Thttp://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=54716&hilit=gradual+loading 12:37:08 <Ammler> the main issue was that it needed changes from newgrf authors 12:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: like bridges-over-stations will, and like any change/addition to newgrf behaviour will 12:39:39 <V453000> bridges over what? :D 12:40:12 <Ammler> also I don't get why it would have beend so overkill to introduce a setting, since you need to handle option there anyway 12:40:19 <Ammler> -d 12:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: the only difference between "newgrf controls whether a vehicle can be flipped" and "newgrf controlls whether a bridge can be over a station" would be that one was a half-baked uncontrollable feature before, and the other is new. why would that justify a setting to override the newgrf control in either case? 12:43:17 <Ammler> because you change existing behavior, not fixing a bug 12:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> mosquito->elephant 12:44:36 <Ammler> well :-) 12:44:43 <Ammler> it is a example 12:45:41 <Ammler> every feature which changes gameplay should have a setting 12:45:54 <Eddi|zuHause> a compromise is where everyone comes out of the discussion with the feeling he's been screwed over :) 12:46:01 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 12:46:19 <Ammler> no matter how important it might look right now 12:46:40 <Ammler> not every setting needs gui 12:47:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: that's only in a perfect world where code complexity of a setting is 0 and maintainability is 100% 12:47:12 <Pinkbeast> Are you proposing to do the additional code maintenance to keep the game working with all possible combinations of settings? 12:47:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: since it is not, there sometimes are sacrifices to make 12:48:38 <Ammler> yeah, well there are some examples like flip engines, where a settings is absolutely no more work since it needs to be option anyway 12:49:18 <Ammler> or like the constant MAX_YEAR could be a setting 12:50:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that it could be, but it still needs someone to a) write a patch, and b) review the patch for unwanted side effects 12:51:07 <Ammler> well, "they" also added code so you weren't able to patch it like building rivers in game mode 12:51:20 <Ammler> that was additional code 12:51:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. so? 12:52:41 <Ammler> so it is not always about code maintenance, sometimes also to force players to play like someone else want 12:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause> building rivers ingame was never a feature, what is your point?? 12:53:38 <Pinkbeast> Do you mean to say that not everyone working on OTTD has exactly the same objectives? I am shocked to discover that. 12:53:46 <Ammler> the feature was to forbid building ingame 12:54:25 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the feature was "allow building rivers in scenario editor" 12:54:44 <Ammler> yeah, ok :-) 12:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: the missing feature there is "switch from game-mode to scenarioeditor-mode" 12:57:01 <Ammler> there is additional code which assures that you can't build rivers ingame, it is not just missing code 12:57:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and that is an argument for/against what? 12:58:08 <Eddi|zuHause> features need code. 12:58:12 <Eddi|zuHause> DUH! 12:58:20 <Ammler> you said, the missing settings are because of code maintenance 12:58:52 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i said the missing settings are BALANCING the need for the setting vs. the necessary maintenance 12:59:42 <Eddi|zuHause> with the rivers, the balance was that the need for disallowing was stronger than the increased maintenance effort. with the flipping the balance was the other way around 12:59:44 <Ammler> some settings need no maintenance 12:59:51 <Ammler> like flip trains 13:00:09 <Eddi|zuHause> that, of course is a subjective view, as the measures are not exact science 13:00:14 <Ammler> it is already a option 13:00:16 <Flygon> Flipping trains is like flipping burgers 13:00:32 <Flygon> Hard to master, but mundane to appear 13:00:33 <Ammler> else you cuoldn't set it via newgrfs 13:01:11 <Ammler> it has basically just the wrong default 13:01:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: if there ever was a need for that setting, that need has certainly vanished by mow 13:01:31 <Eddi|zuHause> *now 13:01:43 <V453000> lol 13:02:26 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you are worst reference for player settings anyway :-) 13:02:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: you have that option, you can write a trivial addon newgrf that enables the option for any vehicle 13:03:11 <Ammler> yep, that is the excuse of the devs 13:03:43 <Ammler> why not the other way around, do additional work to disable flip? 13:04:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: it needs 3 things: an action 8 for the name/id of the GRF, an action0 feature8: grf-override for every known grf-id and an action 0 feature 0: set the flip bit for every vehicle id 13:04:45 <Ammler> and how much more would have it needed to disable it? 13:05:46 <Ammler> so you broke 90% of the newgrfs because of one old lazy newgrf author, which grf was it again? 13:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: all GRFs which used vehicles-shorter-than-default 13:06:15 <V453000> DB set? 13:06:25 <V453000> oh :) 13:06:32 <Ammler> lol, seriously, ottd devs did it for dbset? :-D 13:06:50 <Eddi|zuHause> WE ARE NOT AT WAR WITH MB!! :p 13:07:01 <Ammler> that is so typical :-P 13:08:04 <V453000> go tell him to put shit on bananas then :D 13:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: well, there would have been the option to auto-enable the flag for all vehicles of length 8, but that would have meant a serious complication of the grf specs 13:08:56 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i do that every time... 13:08:58 <Ammler> anyway, the point is that you usually do not know the consecenses when you introduce a feature, so a setting would always be nice, later you can decide if it needs gui 13:09:01 <V453000> I know :) 13:09:02 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: we can't force him 13:09:34 <V453000> yeah :) 13:09:38 <V453000> still 13:09:43 <Ammler> or later you could also change the default 13:09:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: we knew the consequences, we specifically voted against it. 13:09:46 <V453000> WAR 13:09:58 <Ammler> but introducing a setting afterwards won't happen 13:10:21 <peter1138> 12:43 < Ammler> because you change existing behavior, not fixing a bug 13:10:33 <peter1138> actually it was fixing a bug 13:10:56 <Ammler> peter1138: you fixed a bug in a newgrf or in players gamestyle, yes 13:11:36 <Ammler> the "bug" arised only, if a player actuall flipped a engine 13:12:21 <peter1138> also, not just dbset 13:12:28 <V453000> flipping was quite a secret feature anyway wasnt it 13:12:38 <Ammler> it wasn't debset eitehr 13:12:40 <V453000> was/is 13:12:40 <peter1138> a stupid feature imho 13:12:46 <Ammler> no grf, just players stupidity 13:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> <Ammler> the "bug" arised only, if a player actuall flipped a engine <-- $bug with $feature only happens when you use $feature?!? now your arguments are getting really silly 13:17:32 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you removed/disabled a feature just because a player made something stupid 13:17:49 <Ammler> I do not call that fixing 13:17:59 *** dadymax1 [~MG@213.232.245.82] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:43 <peter1138> you can call it what you like 13:19:49 <peter1138> it doesn't matter to us, because we know it's a bug fix 13:22:45 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.84.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:37:16 <Ammler> That just proves my point, ottd devs usually do not care about users, but that is fine. (I guess, it could be s/ottd/opensource community/) 13:38:03 <peter1138> heh 13:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: there's always some extremist that doesn't get his point across to the general consensus, that doesn'm mean anything about the "cariness" about "users" 13:38:29 <peter1138> imho flipping engines was a misfeature that shouldn't've existed 13:38:34 <Flygon> When you're paid, you suddenly care a lot more :p 13:38:50 <Flygon> Also, flipping engines has some use 13:38:57 <peter1138> if it was something that affected game play, maybe it would've turned out different 13:39:14 <Flygon> eg. real world locomotive sets where locomotives can either be single or push-pull on each end of the train 13:39:19 <Flygon> Dare I get photos? 13:39:20 <peter1138> now, what does mb want? 13:39:37 <Ammler> yeah, it was just an example, I am sure I was sad about other "new features" as well, it is just a long time already :-) 13:42:28 <peter1138> hey i'm sad about all the extra hardcoded airports 13:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause> remove them! without option! 13:44:37 <Ammler> you locks patch is really no gameplay, but flipping engine I flip a bit on that view :-P 13:44:49 <peter1138> Ammler, totally wrong 13:44:54 <peter1138> flipping engines is eyecandy only, no gameplay 13:45:09 <peter1138> the locks patch affects ship movement, therefore it clearly affects gameplay 13:45:29 <Ammler> maybe because I used ships tat rarely 13:47:43 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:48:02 <V453000> the locks are totally fucked up if you ask me 13:48:12 <V453000> looks like a bug 13:48:57 <planetmaker> but... "it's realistic", V453000 ;-) 13:49:09 <V453000> planetmaker: I know, but it looks horrible :D 13:49:28 <planetmaker> Not sure it looks horrible. But without locks which close the gates it looks funky 13:49:30 <V453000> like so horrible beyond broke, esp if the water in the locks already is going downhill 13:50:04 <V453000> well luckily I use only 5000 ships per game :) 13:52:13 <peter1138> there's plenty of issues with it 13:54:22 <planetmaker> I assume esp. in the PF, peter1138 ? 13:54:31 <V453000> hey, issues are realistic right 13:54:57 <peter1138> planetmaker, none there 13:55:07 <peter1138> didn't touch it in fact 13:59:09 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:00:21 <peter1138> planetmaker, graphical issues with very long ships 14:00:26 <peter1138> (as if there weren't any before!) 14:02:09 <V453000> so ... why such a wtf feature? :o 14:04:01 <peter1138> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=63856 14:04:03 <peter1138> see 14:04:06 <peter1138> it's a feature request 14:04:48 <V453000> that doesnt mean it makes sense... 14:05:43 <peter1138> cool story 14:05:52 <peter1138> now anyone with some _constructive_ feedback? 14:06:26 <V453000> sure, the original is better 14:06:30 <V453000> constructive? 14:06:53 <peter1138> no, not really 14:07:36 <V453000> then how is making this clearly worse thing constructive? 14:07:37 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 14:11:03 <V453000> oh, I see 14:12:32 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: maybe both the lock glitch and the tunnel glitch could be solved by just making ground sprites have bounding boxes? 14:12:39 <Ammler> according to that video, I like it, but even here there are people not liking it, so again a setting needed? 14:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> (i'm sure that'd break 10000 other cases) 14:13:15 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, not really feasible as then everything on screen needs sprite sorting 14:13:31 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, although that necessary if you introduce cliffs 14:13:41 <peter1138> Ammler, seems that way 14:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: or implement statemachines so this lock version could be a newgrf overriding the original lock 14:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause> no setting needed 14:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> after all, if hardcoded additional airports are bad, how can hardcoded additional locks be good? 14:16:22 <peter1138> well 14:16:41 <peter1138> i'd consider implementing newgrf locks 14:16:45 <peter1138> with statemachines 14:16:47 <peter1138> animation 14:16:48 <peter1138> gates 14:16:57 <peter1138> raising/lowering water 14:16:57 <peter1138> etc etc 14:17:11 <peter1138> if it wasn't for ships being allowed to traverse through each other 14:17:22 <peter1138> hmm, lock-reservation 14:17:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the statemachine could reserve states so that traversing is possible/impossible 14:18:43 <fonsinchen> two-story locks where ships are flipped to the side by 90° so that they pass each other while travelling from top to bottom or vice versa ;) 14:19:55 <peter1138> errrr 14:20:00 <peter1138> yeah 14:20:17 <fonsinchen> Or just make it a black box. On each side one ship has to enter. Then a purple bubble emerges and burst in the players face and then the ships emerge, each on the other side. 14:20:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like something out of Ijon Tichy :p 14:20:55 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.84.56] has joined #openttd 14:31:32 <fonsinchen> We should have more stuff like that in the game. If I wasn't so thoroughly untalented in drawing I'd make some newGRFs. 14:36:14 *** Belugas [~belugas@00011985.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces] 14:39:13 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:44:35 <peter1138> fonsinchen, nah, it's all horrible beyond broke, totally fucked up, doesn't make sense and unconstructive 14:44:54 <V453000> yep 14:44:57 <V453000> :D 14:45:27 <V453000> you forgot realistic 14:46:04 <peter1138> it's either realistic or unrealistic, either way it's all a wtf feature 14:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a reason why i always put "realistic" in quotes 14:47:00 <peter1138> you definitely shouldn't make stuff that users ask for, also you should listen to everything that users have to say 14:47:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i told you a few days ago, Ammler's logic often defies real logic ;) 14:49:54 <Terkhen> hello 14:50:33 <Ammler> not really related to logic, rather freedom 14:52:44 <jasperthecat1> Lol. 14:54:47 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:54:56 <Maedhros> well, you've got the freedom to make AmmlerTTD behave any way you want it to :p 14:55:19 <V453000> challenge 14:55:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Maedhros: but that would take actual development instead of complaining about what other people did :p 14:57:15 <jasperthecat1> I know right :P 14:57:50 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 14:59:24 * peter1138 ponders making a patch option (sorry "advanced setting") for every single change he makes 14:59:54 <peter1138> i will add a new category (optional of course) called "Ammler", although that will be optional too 15:00:15 <Celestar> where is the game looking for newgrfs :P 15:00:34 <peter1138> dozens of places 15:00:48 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:01:40 <peter1138> ~/.openttd/newgrf ~/.openttd/data ~/.openttd/content_download/newgrf ~/.openttd/content_download/data ./newgrf ./data 15:01:44 <jasperthecat1> Well, I keep getting ads about trucks and stuff. For example: Freight-liner, and Splinter. 15:01:45 <Celestar> ta 15:01:49 <peter1138> okay maybe half a dozen 15:02:25 <jasperthecat1> Really weird. 15:02:26 <peter1138> what does tmnt have to do with it? 15:03:20 *** roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.84.22] has joined #openttd 15:03:23 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.84.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:05 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.230] has joined #openttd 15:08:08 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 15:10:41 <Ammler> Maedhros: yeah, another excuse :-P 15:16:35 <dihedral> AmmlerTTD = Ammler tries to do? :-P 15:16:36 <dihedral> hihi 15:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=167540 <--- somehow these look very... phallic 15:22:50 <V453000> wa? 15:26:23 <Terkhen> you have a dirty mind :P 15:26:45 <dihedral> no, you do 15:26:45 <Terkhen> they didn't seem like that to me until you mentioned it 15:26:50 *** Strid [~Strid@c-41cde455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 15:27:19 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:22 *** Superuser [~root@host86-176-47-121.range86-176.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:30:42 <Eddi|zuHause> they didn't appear to me that way 10 years ago either... the internet corrupted my mind!! 15:33:58 <Terkhen> gah, stupid wine 15:34:11 <Terkhen> the new version broke civIV for me 15:34:13 <V453000> k luckily I dont see anything weird there :) 15:34:26 <V453000> you shouldnt drink so much Terkhen :P 15:34:32 <V453000> (yes I know what you mean by wine) :) 15:38:16 <Terkhen> it seems that I was able to fix it 15:38:33 <Terkhen> V453000: wine is for playing, for drinking I have beer 15:38:48 <V453000> haha 15:40:52 <jasperthecat1> LOL 15:48:28 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-094-223-106-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:46 *** roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.84.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:49:45 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 15:50:46 <Superuser> that good feel when linuxbros itc 15:54:25 *** Strid [~Strid@c-41cde455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:34 *** Strid [~Strid@c-41cde455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 15:59:05 *** Celestar [~vici@217.110.29.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:03:48 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 16:08:29 <peter1138> hmm, so i've got my tgp mods here 16:08:35 <peter1138> but i can't remember what i was trying to achieve 16:11:56 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:13:15 *** Strid [~Strid@c-41cde455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: the landscape feature variation functions? 16:14:10 <Eddi|zuHause> (those were actually included ;)) 16:19:42 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-111-24.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 16:24:16 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:41:29 <peter1138> i always wonder if it would be useful to have random data per station part 16:43:21 <peter1138> well not always, only when i'm thinking about this stuff :p 16:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of "random" and what kind of "data"? 16:46:10 <peter1138> same as usual 16:46:23 <peter1138> persistent data that can be randomised by randomactions2 16:46:40 <Eddi|zuHause> http://i6.instantgallery.de/g/gu/guest0001/800/79cad20945896.jpg <-- looks like evil terminator engine is going to rip you to pieces 16:46:53 <peter1138> i guess mb still doesn't quite understand it 16:48:37 <Eddi|zuHause> using the term "dummy" to mean the opposite of what everyone else wants it to mean certainly doesn't help :p 16:48:49 <peter1138> dummy as in doesn't do it! 16:49:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it doesn't decide graphics chain (main application), it only represents the triggers (side effect) 16:49:57 <peter1138> dummy cos it doesn't cause randomisation! 16:50:07 <peter1138> i dunno, you kids these days 16:55:27 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:00:46 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 17:10:39 <Maedhros> would anyone have any interest in this? http://blankfile.co.uk/openttd/townlist.png (indicating whether a town is a city in the town list) 17:12:14 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 17:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Maedhros: the idea was to introduce "town" (house) and "city" (skyscraper) icons similar to train/truck/etc. symbols 17:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> then they could also be shown on the main view/minimap 17:14:23 <Maedhros> aha, fair enough. i guessed this sort of idea must have come up at some point 17:14:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure you'll find several threads in the forum 17:28:51 <peter1138> mb didn't actually explain what he wanted to happen, of course... 17:28:52 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 17:31:56 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:33:04 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:52:13 <peter1138> if (username = V453000) lockstyle = old; 17:54:09 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:56:45 *** Aliens [~Alien@201-35-239-151.jvece701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 17:56:54 *** Aliens [~Alien@201-35-239-151.jvece701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:01 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009263.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:02:17 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:02:20 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:03:03 <peter1138> hmm, my station height spec is off-by-one compared to object heights :S 18:03:53 <frosch123> is it? 18:04:04 <frosch123> i thought it's the same 18:05:49 <frosch123> maybe there is a obiwan in ottd 18:06:23 <frosch123> >= instead of > 18:06:50 <peter1138> stations: 18:06:53 <frosch123> or does ottd consider the height of the bridge itself > 0 18:06:56 <peter1138> if (GetTileMaxZ(tile) + height > z_start + 1) goto not_valid_below; 18:06:59 <peter1138> objects: 18:07:04 <peter1138> if (GetTileMaxZ(tile) + spec->height > z_start) goto not_valid_below; 18:07:43 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Objects#Building_height_.2816.29 <- yeah, but the specs actually say that? 18:07:47 <frosch123> +do 18:08:30 <frosch123> does an object of height 1 imply that the bridge should be at 2? (like ottd does) 18:08:41 <frosch123> or do the specs rather suggest that the bridge can be at 1? 18:09:32 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: then 0 can't mean "no bridge" 18:10:04 <frosch123> why? a bridge cannot be at the same height as the object 18:10:18 <frosch123> a bridge is above the surface, not on the surface 18:13:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean if 1 means 2, then 0 can't mean 1 and never at the same time 18:14:19 <peter1138> ah, so mb is really just trying to convince me to implement something that is not possible. cool. 18:14:45 *** Rhamphoryncus_ [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:15:22 <frosch123> hmm, yeah, objects have a separate flag to allow bridges 18:15:52 <peter1138> yeah cos they don't have 8 tiles per object 18:17:04 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=899149#p899149 <- looks like this was the last post on that topic 18:17:33 <frosch123> earlier in that topic rb suggested to use "0" for "no bridge". but that is not what was implemented 18:18:27 <peter1138> not sure which makes sense, but using the same system would surely be better 18:18:36 <peter1138> in which case i need to change from 0 to something else 18:18:49 <peter1138> or add an additional flag 18:18:58 <peter1138> with 8 flags :p 18:19:09 <peter1138> or i keep what i've done and have it different 18:19:13 <frosch123> make it uint16 :p 18:19:23 <peter1138> there should only ever be 8 anyway 18:19:34 <peter1138> technically you could assuming X & Y variants are the same 18:19:37 <peter1138> *assume 18:21:14 <frosch123> you can close the 'station triggers do not work' bug btw 18:21:31 <peter1138> oooh! 18:32:11 <frosch123> does your locks patch support reversing the ship while it is inside the lock? 18:32:18 <frosch123> ttdp completely breaks when doing that iirc 18:33:11 *** Rhamphoryncus_ [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:34:42 <peter1138> didn't try 18:40:49 <Eddi|zuHause> if a vehicle is in a [custom] statemachine and the turnaround button is pressed, and the state does not say what happens on turning around, just reset the state to some entry/exit state? 18:42:32 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:48:13 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24907 /trunk/src/lang (6 files in 2 dirs) (2013-01-11 18:48:02 UTC) 18:48:14 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:48:15 <DorpsGek> arabic_egypt - 6 changes by zaabi1995 18:48:16 <DorpsGek> bulgarian - 100 changes by logi 18:48:17 <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 16 changes by Marcadana, elleryq 18:48:18 <DorpsGek> korean - 23 changes by telk5093 18:48:19 <DorpsGek> tamil - 12 changes by aswn 18:48:20 <DorpsGek> turkish - 53 changes by barisdemirdelen 18:49:08 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:13 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, show me the turnaround button :p 19:10:08 <Maedhros> would skipping to another order do it? 19:11:29 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 19:11:42 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:18:42 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 19:20:27 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:20:35 <Wolf01> evenink o/ 19:20:38 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 19:39:41 <Supercheese> Hmm, are translated/localized versions of readmes that are included in grf bundles possible? 19:40:15 <frosch123> yes 19:40:30 <frosch123> you can localise readme and changelog 19:40:36 <frosch123> you cannot localise license 19:41:37 <Supercheese> Do I rename them to readme_UK.txt, or use a lang ID, or... 19:41:50 <frosch123> http://wiki.openttd.org/Bananas#Files_to_upload 19:42:01 <Supercheese> Aha, under that page 19:42:27 <Supercheese> thanks 19:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause> GRFv9 suggestion: rip out the "cargo" stuff of action3, and put the callbacks in there instead 19:43:32 <peter1138> ini files 19:43:38 <peter1138> or 19:43:54 <Eddi|zuHause> then the rerandomisation could simply run through all callback branches 19:44:00 <peter1138> squirrel :p 19:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, what happened to the squirrelgrf project? ;p 19:45:08 <Supercheese> hibernating for the winter? :P 19:45:31 <Supercheese> NUTS should be coded in squirrel :D 19:45:40 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: you forgot XML anyway :p 19:45:51 <peter1138> squirrel in xml! 19:46:09 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: counter proposal 19:46:15 <frosch123> elminiate random actions 19:46:21 <frosch123> use var 5f 19:46:29 <frosch123> and specify retriggering in some other way 19:46:58 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: specify retriggering using CB1 :p 19:48:19 <Eddi|zuHause> GRFv9-CB1 returns a bitmask of bits to retrigger 19:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause> in its return value or in some register 19:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause> 32bit callback results 19:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> 32 random bits are enough for everybody 19:51:19 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 19:59:28 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:59:31 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 20:05:06 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:11:04 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:31:31 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:46 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 20:57:17 <frosch123> some latvian speaker around? 20:57:50 <Eddi|zuHause> svn log | grep latvian <-- list of candidates 21:01:29 *** wojteks86 [5db0e60d@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:01:35 <wojteks86> hi 21:03:05 <jasperthecat1> Just uploaded a map... 21:09:21 <frosch123> so, who can match "pasaÅŸieris", "pasaÅŸieri", "pasaÅŸieru" to 0, 1 and 2? 21:11:54 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:10 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 21:12:13 <Alberth> post at the forum? 21:13:00 <frosch123> "pasaÅŸieris" is the one in the dictionary 21:13:22 <wojteks86> sound like slavic language 21:13:35 <frosch123> it's latvian 21:13:46 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/StringCodes#Using_plural_forms <- yay 21:14:01 <frosch123> http://mylanguages.org/latvian_plural.php <- wrong clipboard 21:14:04 <wojteks86> I would go for accordingly 1=2, 2=1, 3=0 21:14:08 <wojteks86> but make sure on the forums ;) 21:16:57 <frosch123> hmm, that page is quite useless 21:17:19 <frosch123> but yeah, most likely is = 1, i=2, u=0 21:18:30 <wojteks86> better to ask someone from Latvia :D 21:20:35 <wojteks86> actually, after looking at the example from your link, it appears they are in the correct order already 21:20:45 <wojteks86> I mean, where you first posted them 21:21:00 <frosch123> wiki also has a lot latvian declensions 21:21:22 <frosch123> but non mentioned a special plural form for 0, 21, 31 etc. 21:21:30 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 21:22:29 <wojteks86> unfortunately, I cant really help with Latvian 21:22:47 <Alberth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_declension#Numerals ? 21:31:45 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:39:03 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:43:35 <jasperthecat1> I just updated my map, check it out. http://binaries.openttd.org/bananas/scenario/Road_Vehicle_Map-1.1.tar.gz 21:47:36 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:49:03 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:49:10 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:51:42 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 21:52:41 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:54:33 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 21:57:15 <Terkhen> good night 22:05:01 *** Jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:15:44 <Jasperthecat1> Wow, it' 22:15:48 <Jasperthecat1> It's silent. 22:16:30 <wojteks86> silent night, holy night 22:20:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19E43.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:24:08 <Jasperthecat1> Lol. 22:28:02 <planetmaker> good night 22:28:14 <wojteks86> good night 22:28:17 <peter1138> 'night 22:29:40 *** wojteks86 [5db0e60d@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:31:03 <Jasperthecat1> I think this is the last update for today on my scenario called 'Road Vehicle Map'. 22:38:10 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:38:13 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:54:12 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009263.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:32 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:29 <peter1138> hmm, canstations includes waypoints... as stations :S 23:11:44 <Jasperthecat1> If anyone wants to come and play in my server, it's called 'Road Vehicle server :P' 23:11:59 <peter1138> yeah yeah, you have a thing about road vehicles 23:12:40 <Jasperthecat1> Yes, i know. 23:19:59 *** Jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:32:37 *** Jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 23:37:26 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:59:02 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04e3ca.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd