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00:00:41 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:04:42 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:25 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-5d856f32.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:11:44 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-039-083.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:12:53 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:20:43 *** alex6 [58b96930@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 00:21:15 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:21:37 *** alex6 [58b96930@ircip4.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 00:53:07 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 01:38:43 <peter1138> hmm 01:38:51 <peter1138> saveload works better when you put it in the right _desc :s 01:41:07 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:41:30 <Supercheese> Who's that Pokémon? *da na na* 01:41:34 <Supercheese> It's... Flygon! 01:41:40 <Supercheese> :P 01:42:08 <Flygon> 'gon? 01:42:23 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@200.139.122.222.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:44:04 <peter1138> ^_^ 01:44:08 <Supercheese> Hmm, there's clearly something in object_cmd.cpp that's misbehaving, but I can't seem to sort out what it is... 01:44:48 * Flygon like, makes Flygon noises all over Supercheese... when finds Supercheese delicious :U 01:45:46 <Supercheese> New Pokémon games, sheesh they just keep making them 01:45:58 <Supercheese> As long as there's money I guess 01:47:15 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:49:53 <peter1138> yay, separating train routes by speed ;p 01:50:00 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:50:28 <peter1138> although the displayspeed to speed stuff appears to be wrong 01:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a patch for that... 01:50:49 <Supercheese> Great, two bugs now I'm trying to find a fix for now and failing... admittedly this is my first muck around in the source 01:51:09 <Supercheese> well, other than applying existing patches 01:51:28 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, is it actually wrong or am i using it wrong? 01:51:34 <peter1138> i never used conditional orders 01:51:50 <peter1138> Supercheese, so what's the bug? 01:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: no idea what you're trying to do 01:52:00 <Supercheese> One is http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5441 01:52:19 <Supercheese> The other is an object's sound effect only plays in Temperate, and not in Arctic or Tropic 01:52:34 <Supercheese> I have no climate-specific code at all 01:53:32 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, conditional orders on max speed 01:53:49 <Supercheese> Maybe MakeWaterKeepingClass is doing something wrong... 01:54:52 <Supercheese> Yeah I think that might be it 01:56:00 *** Supercheese_ [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 01:56:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ok... something just broke horribly while clicking on that link... 01:56:41 <Supercheese_> which now? 01:58:14 *** Supercheese_ [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [] 01:58:31 *** Supercheese_ [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 01:59:36 <Eddi|zuHause> any link it seems... 01:59:47 <Supercheese_> bah, my IRC seems to have freaked out 01:59:53 <Eddi|zuHause> kde-open or xdg-open is seriously broken :/ 02:01:40 <Supercheese_> Maybe never having done anything with NickServ was a bad idea... 02:02:51 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC671D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 02:02:53 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:02:57 <Supercheese_> There we go 02:03:05 *** Supercheese_ [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has left #openttd [] 02:03:10 *** Supercheese_ [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 02:04:00 *** Supercheese_ is now known as Supercheese 02:06:12 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC671D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:19:28 <Flygon> http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8331/8377809717_38b0ccf6e1_z.jpg OpenTTD needs a "Dust and Dirt" feature :p 02:19:28 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:41 <Supercheese> that would be provided by grf likely 02:19:52 <Supercheese> change graphics based on days since last service or whatnot 02:25:05 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:28:01 <Supercheese> What are these 'bitcoins'? Googling... 02:28:23 <Supercheese> PayPal-ish? 02:28:47 <Supercheese> Indepent currency? 02:28:50 <Supercheese> Independent* 02:30:29 <Supercheese> Cut out the middle man, interesting 02:33:09 <Eddi|zuHause> something that was The Hype about a year ago 02:33:20 <Supercheese> died down since then? 02:34:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it "died", but the hype curve certainly slowed down 02:40:20 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 02:40:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so is SkiddLow really this unintelligent as he appears or is there just something lost in translation? 02:40:58 <Supercheese> potentially some combination of both 02:41:10 <Supercheese> a shade of grey, so to speak 02:41:13 <Eddi|zuHause> "i create this project. now you guys go ahead and produce content for my project" 02:51:28 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 02:53:54 <Flygon> Supercheese: Well, if Australia ever gets a railset... this's happening :p 02:54:04 <Flygon> But it needs to count more than just days... 02:54:09 <Flygon> Should count kilometers travelled too 02:54:15 <Supercheese> do an inventory of available variables 02:54:24 <Supercheese> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Vehicle_variables 02:55:38 <Supercheese> date_of_last_service is available 02:56:07 <Supercheese> I don't immediately see any method to find distance traveled since last service 02:56:19 <Flygon> Hmm 02:56:21 <Flygon> That's an issue 02:56:29 <Supercheese> depends if registers/temp storage can be (ab)used 02:56:58 <Supercheese> some hack like incrementing a temp_storage whenever motion_counter increases in value could theoretically count distance 02:56:59 <Flygon> Having it just date based has issues such as... for example, a loco in the sidings doing nothing at all getting dusty 02:57:05 <Flygon> Even if it's in the middle of port :p 02:57:13 <Flygon> As in, in the middle of an ocean port 02:57:55 <Supercheese> that could potentially destroy performance by forcing a zillion calculations all the time, though 02:58:19 * Flygon thinks 02:58:20 <Flygon> ... 02:58:28 * Flygon nah, that's impossible too 02:58:44 <Flygon> Was gonna suggest it only happen on Snowy or Desert terrain 02:58:53 <Flygon> But that's also impractical to implement 02:58:55 <Supercheese> don't think there's a way to check that 02:59:01 <Flygon> Indeed 02:59:09 <Supercheese> I could be wrong, though 02:59:15 <Supercheese> that list is non-exhaustive 02:59:37 * Flygon nod 02:59:51 <Flygon> Either way, one thing's more important first anyway 03:00:05 <Flygon> An Aussie railset that isn't just New South Welsh trains actually happening :p 03:02:01 *** user54367644 [~user@211.234.225.98] has joined #openttd 03:02:38 <Supercheese> Yes, well, minor details ;) 03:04:47 <Supercheese> I'm thinking about adding SkiddLow to my ignore list... 03:05:22 <Supercheese> Lemme check if he has ever contributed anything, that should decide 03:05:56 <Supercheese> anything... outside of off-topic that is 03:06:26 <Supercheese> Gah, just noticed a horrible typo I made back in July 03:07:03 <Supercheese> Hmm, he does have screenshots 03:10:21 <Supercheese> Seems he contributed some sprites: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=39227&p=1044212#p1044212 03:13:26 <Supercheese> Ok, I think the problem detailed in FS#5441 may be with the MakeWaterKeepingClass function in water_cmd.cpp 03:14:02 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:14:42 <Supercheese> attempting a fix... 03:17:19 <Supercheese> Hmm, the compiler doesn't aggressively notify when compilation is finished :( 03:18:45 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:27:21 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:27:50 *** user54367644 [~user@211.234.225.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:33:35 <Supercheese> Yep, problem identified 03:34:24 <Supercheese> This might be a discussion better carried on in #openttd.dev ... 03:34:58 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 03:42:14 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 03:42:29 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:00:01 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-59-128.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:10:21 <Supercheese> Dang, I love the comments in OTTD source 04:10:25 <Supercheese> so well documented 04:35:33 *** tycoondemon2 [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 04:35:34 *** tycoondemon [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:14 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-72-206.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 05:54:26 *** chester_ [~chester@95-25-48-119.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC671D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause 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has joined #openttd 08:11:24 <kamnet> Would a developer be interested in creating a forum post describing the current outstanding issues with porting to MacOS X and what they're looking for in assistance? If one would, I could then post a link to the forum in a couple of Mac & programming forums I know of and can try to fish for some fresh help. 08:13:58 <__ln__> this list gives some hint about it: http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=OSX 08:15:42 <kamnet> I thought of that, but just throwing out bug reports is likely to get somebody to look at it, shrug, mutter "sucks to be them" and go away. 08:20:56 <__ln__> i don't think you can expect much more than the same list from developers either, realistically. 08:22:21 <kamnet> That's why I mentioned more than just list of bugs. 08:23:42 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:30:15 <kamnet> AH! I thought there was already such a page, I just couldn't locate it earlier: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=45247 08:30:39 <kamnet> If a dev doesn't mind making sure that's up-to-date, I can use that. Thank you! 08:30:56 <peter1138> why don't you? 08:32:42 <Supercheese> peter1138: I have some questions about water_cmd.cpp and object_cmd.cpp, do you have some time for a discussion? 08:32:46 <kamnet> Because I know absolutely nothing about the outstanding bugs, or exactly what the developers are looking for when it comes to assistance. Nor can I edit the post since I didn't make it :D 08:34:10 <kamnet> If that information is up to date, however, I can pass that on to people who may be interested in assisting. 08:34:46 <peter1138> Supercheese, not much time 08:34:47 <__ln__> kamnet: i guess the interest must come from those people's own interest in the game. 08:34:59 <Supercheese> ok, some other time or with someone else, then :) 08:37:39 <__ln__> as far as i understand, occassinally there have been "interested" "people" whose skill level is on the level of "i own a mac, installed xcode tools, and i know how to write a hello world program". may not be quite enough. 08:38:28 <peter1138> we aren't looking for assistance 08:38:45 <peter1138> if someone is really interested they'll know what to do 08:38:47 <Supercheese> Mac users can still run OTTD with some windows emulation or whatever, no? 08:39:03 <Supercheese> WINE, IIRC 08:39:07 <peter1138> but nobody is 08:39:15 <peter1138> __ln__ gets it 08:41:03 <kamnet> So I just say, "Hey, bugs! http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=OSX" and knowledgeable individuals will just start flocking? 08:41:17 <peter1138> no 08:41:27 <peter1138> but they're not intereste 08:41:28 <peter1138> +D 08:41:37 <Supercheese> Knowledge is insufficient, motivation is mandatory 08:42:32 <kamnet> How do you know they're not interested? 08:42:37 <__ln__> kamnet: you just say: "yo, this is the best game for macintosh, yo, take a look and get addicted" 08:45:13 <kamnet> Uh-huh. 08:46:12 <Supercheese> Best game period, not just for Mac ;) 08:48:26 <kamnet> I'll just ask Rubidium directly. 08:49:24 <__ln__> kamnet: umm... don't. 08:49:57 <kamnet> And, praytell, why not? 08:55:10 <Flygon> __ln__: Most addictive Macintosh game is Ragnarok Online under Wine... or: How to shut your teenage son up for 18 months 08:55:21 <Flygon> At the risk of never seeing him againn 08:55:35 <Flygon> OpenTTD is 0.01% less addictive :B 09:02:52 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 09:06:54 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:10:58 <__ln__> kamnet: because mr. R doesn't actually want to get Mac things fixed, he wants to have the issues so he can keep telling how much OS X sucks. 09:11:18 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 09:15:51 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:33:06 <Flygon> Does OpenTTD work in WINE? 09:33:14 <Supercheese> dunno 09:33:30 <Flygon> Well, time to find out :p 09:34:31 <Flygon> I actually once looked into using WINE on Windows to use the 16-bit Civilization II 09:34:58 <Flygon> Ended up giving up and just using a lot of .exe patches to achieve the end result (no pretty getinfo.exe stuff, though :( ) 09:47:37 <kamnet> I don't see why it woudn't run under wine 09:47:52 <Supercheese> try champagne instead :P 09:59:54 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0/20130104151925]] 10:03:28 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 10:03:59 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest4597 10:05:43 *** Guest4597 is now known as Supercheese 10:07:19 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:12:35 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13:03 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 10:16:42 <peter1138> http://www.gp.se/nyheter/sverige/1.1210265-stadare-kraschade-tag-in-i-hus 10:32:18 *** user54367644 [~user@211.234.225.7] has joined #openttd 10:35:55 *** user54367644 [~user@211.234.225.7] has quit [] 10:37:09 <Supercheese> so, Google translate seems to indicate the train was stolen? 10:37:27 <Supercheese> via Google translate, the article does anyway 10:38:51 <__ln__> stolen by a cleaner female person 10:39:22 <Supercheese> "She has been arrested on suspicion of devastation endangering the public." 10:39:48 <Supercheese> devastation endangering, hehe 10:44:35 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:04 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 10:47:01 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [] 10:52:22 <V453000> I have talked a lot about stuff like this with devs on irc, and I can tell you for sure that they have strong thoughts about doing it. Can't wait for v2.0. <<<---- MADE MY DAY :DDDD 10:52:23 <V453000> :DD 10:52:49 <V453000> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=47238&start=420 10:53:02 <V453000> did you troll that guy hardcore or did he just talk in some other channel ? :D 10:54:08 <V453000> oh wait that is what andy wrote 10:54:15 <V453000> wrong quotes .. :) 10:54:40 <Pinkbeast> Or "dev" == anyone who ever looked at the source code 10:54:44 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 10:55:41 <V453000> nah this was just from andy so it was more like nobody :) 10:55:49 <V453000> still, amazing thread :D 10:55:53 <peter1138> and then they talk about bitcoins 10:56:00 <peter1138> worthless crap 10:56:37 <blathijs> Amazing indeed: "removal of other transport modes which are not trains. The things like ships are just a nasty hack, because the game was made for trains, and the other types are kind of just a perversion of the codebase" 10:56:57 <blathijs> Even better, followed by "(noobs won't understand this, but I have read at least 9,000 lines of the actual codez so I know wot I discourse about)." 10:57:06 <blathijs> This guy has the skillz! :-) 10:58:04 <peter1138> it's misquoted from andy's post on the previous page 10:58:13 <peter1138> andythetroll 10:59:58 <V453000> yeah :) 11:00:21 <V453000> honestly, that thread is deemed to be worthless from the beginning 11:00:27 <V453000> where else to troll :D 11:00:30 <peter1138> of course 11:00:47 <peter1138> i do wonder how the new map array is going 11:01:18 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:02:24 <peter1138> it's blathijs' fault 11:05:21 <peter1138> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=378663#p378663 11:05:33 <peter1138> probably the best post ever about the new map array 11:06:30 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 11:07:30 <V453000> no clue what that is (I am hopefully safe) 11:07:46 <V453000> I guess some -array- of values like heights, x, y, stuff 11:08:08 <peter1138> it's a long running "joke" now 11:08:22 <peter1138> the map array is where tile data is kept 11:09:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the "new map array" is the holy grail for every missing unimplementable feature :p 11:10:29 <blathijs> We actually had a big part of a new map array designed at some point 11:10:31 <Eddi|zuHause> custom bridge heads? "needs new map array". underground railway? "needs new map array". programmable signals? "needs new map array" 11:10:55 <peter1138> signals under bridges? needs a new map array 11:10:58 <peter1138> (except it didn't) 11:11:11 <blathijs> but during implementation we ended up spending way too much time on all kinds of cleanups (I remember rewriting the different coordinate conversions to make more sense) :-) 11:11:19 <Eddi|zuHause> we've had several smaller redesigns/extensions of "the map array" 11:11:32 <peter1138> how long will it take to warm 120m³ of air from 14°C to 18°C with a 2000W heater? 11:11:33 <V453000> :) 11:13:00 <Eddi|zuHause> pV=nRT? 11:13:22 <peter1138> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/3d/tunnel.png 11:13:23 <peter1138> :D 11:13:28 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, does it? 11:13:53 <peter1138> sad that that work was 4 years ago 11:14:22 <peter1138> custom bridge heads? screw that :D 11:14:53 <V453000> I know SmatZ even had a video somewhere 11:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the last attempt of custom bridge heads actually came to the conclusion that we need to switch to C++ :p 11:15:08 <peter1138> V453000, same directory 11:15:14 <V453000> oh right :) 11:15:33 <blathijs> peter1138: (4K * 12 m3 * 1297 J/m3/K) / 2000W = 311 seconds 11:15:34 <Eddi|zuHause> then we actually did that, but we didn't get any closer to custom bridge heads 11:16:00 <peter1138> blathijs, uhhh 11:16:14 <peter1138> 120 :) 11:16:14 <blathijs> peter1138: (That's actually from 0° C to 4°, but 14-18 is probably similar) 11:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: have you checked that "rewrite of tunnelbridgeenterproc [or so]" by hackalittlekid? it may be preliminary work for actual custom bridge heads 11:16:24 <blathijs> peter1138: Oh, the result is with 120, I mistyped in IRC only 11:16:35 <peter1138> 311 seconds seems a bit short 11:16:38 <Eddi|zuHause> *hackalittlebit" 11:16:47 <peter1138> pretty sure more than 5 minutes 11:16:47 <blathijs> peter1138: Yeah, to me as well :-) 11:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> mixed in some hackykid in there, big mistake :p 11:17:08 <blathijs> peter1138: I got the 1297 value from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity#Table_of_specific_heat_capacities 11:18:08 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, Celestar_ was the last person dealing with CBH 11:18:14 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, mine was YEARSSSSSSSSSSS ago 11:18:20 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: yes 11:18:22 <peter1138> and i think it's too hacky :p 11:19:31 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: hackalittlebit is the guy who made the silly/hacky "signals on bridges" patch, but he also published this rewrite, which may be useful for The Real Thing (TM) 11:20:39 <peter1138> we already have a tile that handles everything people want from CBH 11:20:57 <peter1138> we just need a way to end bridges 11:21:06 <peter1138> without needing a bridge tile 11:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and the tunnelbridgeenterproc may be a step towards that 11:22:02 <peter1138> if you get rid of bridge end tiles then there is no tunnelbridgeenterproc :p 11:22:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it controls the "step" for the vehicle into the wormhole 11:22:35 <Eddi|zuHause> you still need that if you don't have bridgeheads ;) 11:23:21 <peter1138> pfft, no worm holes ;p 11:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't looked at it in-depth, but from what i remember the issue was that this step was done still on the bridgehead tile, while this rewrite moves it to the step off the bridgehead tile 11:24:56 <peter1138> in my original bridges-over-crap patch (before wormholes) i added z-pos to the pathfinder, heh 11:25:22 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: well the next step could be renaming "wormhole mode" to "non-surface-mode" and then you could have a special vehicle-enter-tile which handles movement in rollercoasters :p 11:25:37 <V453000> :DD 11:27:38 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, gtg 11:30:46 <peter1138> blathijs, been about an hour so far and not much difference :p 11:32:54 <blathijs> peter1138: I wonder where the error in the calculation is, then 11:33:53 <blathijs> peter1138: I could imagine the energy not being evenly spread (the heater itself is probably > 50° and the air around the heater already > 18°), but that wouldn't explain a difference from 5 minutes to > 1 hours I think 11:34:27 <peter1138> something about J and W 11:35:23 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 11:35:31 <drac_boy> hi 11:38:58 <blathijs> peter1138: W = J/s, right? 11:40:11 <blathijs> Perhaps the room is loosing heat at a rate close to 2000W as well? 11:40:25 <peter1138> possibly 11:56:33 *** Devroush36 [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:59:36 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:00:00 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:01:16 <dihedral> oi 12:01:52 <Pinkbeast> Also, you're trying to warm up the walls. 12:03:51 <blathijs> Pinkbeast: Ah, indeed (which might very well be even colder than 14°, especially near the outside 12:03:55 <blathijs> ) 12:04:34 *** Devroush36 [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:06:31 <peter1138> i miscalced, it's about 180m³ 12:06:41 <peter1138> but yeah, losses make up the difference 12:08:24 <peter1138> it'll be warming up the cold radiators too :p 12:09:36 *** Devroush36 [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:16:11 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:22:36 <peter1138> i guess i won't be upgrading this machine to wheezy 12:47:35 <NGC3982> 04:13 < Supercheese> Ok, I think the problem detailed in FS#5441 may be with the MakeWaterKeepingClass function in water_cmd.cpp 12:47:41 <NGC3982> That hilighted me. 12:48:00 <NGC3982> And i have no idea why :3 12:55:27 <drac_boy> heh? 12:58:20 <peter1138> this restrictions patch touches so many files :-( 13:01:11 <peter1138> and it's not complete :p 13:05:31 <NGC3982> So, it's a good train day here in Sweden 13:05:57 <NGC3982> A cleaning lady took control over a C10/C11 regional wagon and drove it into a house. 13:06:00 <NGC3982> .. 13:07:16 <peter1138> yeah we know 13:14:49 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:20:03 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 13:33:26 *** Celestar_ is now known as Celestar 13:33:30 <Celestar> yahoo 13:37:07 <dihedral> o/ 13:44:02 <heffer> any nml maintainer here? 13:44:44 <heffer> i'd love to have this patch applied: http://paste.stg.fedoraproject.org/3182/raw/ 13:45:20 <heffer> background: Fedora is switching from PIL to pillow for the Fedora 19 release cycle. this patch makes nml compatible with both PIL and pillow 13:45:31 <heffer> see: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=895290 13:51:35 *** Devroush36 [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:52:34 <planetmaker> heffer: can you open an issue at the NML tracker? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/issues 13:53:08 <planetmaker> making it compatible with other image libraries than the badly maintained PIL is a very nice step though :-) 13:54:40 <planetmaker> hm, and thanks for making me aware of pillow :D 13:54:49 <planetmaker> something I think I might have searched for before in vain 13:55:23 <heffer> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4799 13:56:12 <heffer> i didn't know anything about it until this bug was opened against my nml package as well 14:09:21 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:09:25 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:09:34 <NGC3982> Secondary industries doesn't have a production limit, right? 14:09:39 <NGC3982> In the latest FIRS. 14:24:27 *** user54367644 [~user@211.234.220.47] has joined #openttd 14:32:15 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:32:35 *** user54367644 [~user@211.234.220.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:34:14 <Belugas> hello 14:34:43 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:39:17 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 14:40:14 <Bad_Brett> http://gfx.aftonbladet-cdn.se/image/16074530/803/normal/a4511d04cf7a6/flygbild.jpg 14:49:27 <NGC3982> Yeah, i know. 14:49:37 <NGC3982> The Swedish Trafikverket has a really bad day. 14:49:46 <Bad_Brett> Yeah... 14:54:06 <peter1138> well that's not good 15:01:33 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.87.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:20 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.8] has joined #openttd 15:10:03 *** user54367644 [~user@211.234.225.9] has joined #openttd 15:10:51 <peter1138> hmm 15:10:57 <peter1138> it's okay to reuse strings from one window in another, right? 15:11:06 <peter1138> same context 15:12:40 <planetmaker> depends on which kind of string :-) 15:12:57 <planetmaker> as you may know, it may be the same in English, but not in other languages 15:13:05 <planetmaker> So.. rather introduce a new string, if in doubt 15:13:24 <planetmaker> Exceptions rather IMHO are buttons like 'ok', 'cancel' etc 15:13:28 *** user54367644 [~user@211.234.225.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:09 <peter1138> same context, as i said ;) 15:15:35 <peter1138> conditional stuff, so some of the order window strings are appropriate 15:48:43 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 16:05:23 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:26 <peter1138> hi 16:14:07 <kamnet> Hola 16:14:26 <peter1138> hi 16:14:34 <peter1138> moo moo 16:14:39 <peter1138> justified ancients of 16:21:27 <kamnet> KLF. Uh-huh, uh-huh. 16:48:06 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-055-016.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 16:54:44 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffa9b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:54:52 *** SimKill [~SimKill@109.161.244.11] has joined #openttd 16:54:59 <SimKill> Hello all! 16:58:11 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:28:35 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:34:25 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:35:13 *** lugo [lugo@000189e6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:44 *** lugo [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has joined #openttd 17:45:53 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 17:49:37 <Terkhen> hello 17:49:55 <kamnet> HEEEELOOOOOO WORLD! 17:50:29 <NGC3982> This has not been a good day. 17:51:00 <NGC3982> Huge traffic accident, huge absurd train accident, and a good friend of mine has been shot to death. 17:51:18 <NGC3982> 0 points to Sweden. 17:51:31 <kamnet> I'm very sorry to hear. :-( 17:52:01 <Pinkbeast> Er but wasn't the accident in Egypt? 17:52:09 <NGC3982> Egypt? 17:52:31 <Pinkbeast> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/15/egypt-train-crash-army-recruits 17:52:53 <NGC3982> My god 17:52:55 <NGC3982> That too? 17:53:10 <Pinkbeast> As well as what? 17:53:32 <Pinkbeast> I mean, what is the train accident to which you allude? 17:53:40 <NGC3982> "President Mohammed Morsi named a new transportation minister on 6 January in an effort to improve railway safety. The post had been left vacant in the aftermath of an accident that killed 49 kindgergarten pupils in November 2012 when a speeding train hit their school bus." 17:53:40 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 17:53:44 <NGC3982> I did not even know that. 17:54:24 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: Nothing as gruesome as the one you just showed me. A Swedish cleaning lady stole a regional train and derailed. 18:07:46 *** hanshoi [hanshoi@kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 18:09:44 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:09:50 <SimKill> Guys, why does my coal mine load only one train even though there are two in the station? 18:10:19 <Nat_aS> because there is only enough coal for one? 18:10:38 <SimKill> oh 18:11:37 <SimKill> well, the mine has 106 ores per month 18:11:57 <SimKill> scratch that 117 ores per month 18:12:19 <SimKill> yet my 5 wagon train does only serial loading 18:13:12 <kamnet> It should only load one train at a time. Once the first train leaves, it should be loading the next train that came in. 18:13:26 <SimKill> yes that's what it does 18:13:41 <SimKill> so basically there's no point in having more than 2 stations for coalmines 18:14:08 <SimKill> so, do all stations load serially? 18:14:47 <kamnet> Do you have two distinct/separate stations at this mine? 18:15:05 <kamnet> Or one station with separated platforms? 18:15:23 <SimKill> one station two platforms, and directional rails 18:15:43 <SimKill> (i.e. one to, and one from the plant) 18:16:20 <kamnet> Then yes, that station is going to load serially. 18:16:32 <SimKill> ok 18:16:51 <SimKill> but if I place two one track stations side by side? will that make a difference? 18:16:52 <kamnet> Now, if you had two separate stations, then when the mine distributes, it would distribute to both stations, but most likely not equally. 18:17:46 <kamnet> by separate stations, I mean "Station A" and "Station B", two distinct and different destinations. 18:18:04 <SimKill> ah I see 18:20:23 <kamnet> In that scenario which train gets how much depends on which industry set you're playing with (stock, ecs, pikkabird, or firs), station ratings, how close the final destination is, train age, etc. 18:20:23 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 18:20:55 <SimKill> oh wow 18:21:04 <SimKill> I just picked this game up 3 days ago 18:21:09 <SimKill> no idea it was so deep 18:21:47 <kamnet> The economic calculations are fairly sophisticated. I typically don't worry much about any of it though. 18:22:31 <SimKill> okay 18:22:40 <kamnet> Unless I just want to see cargo separated by final destination, I'll only use one station and have multiple vehicles queue. This helps to keep your station rating higher, since there's likely to be a vehicle always waiting to take delivery. 18:23:12 <NGC3982> There is no way to change station loading from serial to pararell? 18:23:25 <kamnet> No. 18:23:26 <hanshoi> hello. Is there some knowledge here what could be wrong with my dedicated server? I have the required ports open for game, master server and admin. It can't advertise. I can see it locally. But people can't connect to it. 18:23:48 <NGC3982> kamnet: Dag nabbit. 18:24:19 <NGC3982> I think it's time i fix that advertise thingy for my server. 18:24:21 <SimKill> so then why do so many tutorials have HUGE multi platform layouts 18:24:34 <SimKill> isn't 2 platform layout the most efficient then? 18:24:43 <Maedhros> can't you make trains load in parallel by turning off 'Improved loading'? 18:24:52 <Maedhros> i don't really know why you'd want to though... 18:24:55 <kamnet> NGC2982: You can simulate parallel it by building separate stations next to each other (ctrl-click). 18:25:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A3BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:25:27 <NGC3982> kamnet: What? You mean simply building the same station with empty tiles between them? 18:25:33 <NGC3982> I did not know that. 18:26:07 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/Ke4mV.png 18:26:16 <NGC3982> As far as i know, that does not affect the way the trains load? 18:26:20 <kamnet> No, they have to be distinctly separate stations. But with ctrl-click you can place to separate stations directly next to each other, w/o spaces between them. 18:26:57 <NGC3982> Ah, as i thought. 18:27:00 <NGC3982> Well 18:27:09 <kamnet> From your screenshot, you can build Cadham Forest and Cadham South next to each other. If you do that, the mine will distribute ore to both of them at the same time. 18:27:56 <kamnet> However, if you have only Cadham Smith (two platforms of the same station separated by grass) and two trains on them, only one train will be loaded at a time. 18:38:13 <kamnet> Oh, wait... I just read Maedhros' comment. Yes! *sighs* I've played with "improved loading" on for so long I forgot about it. 18:39:16 <kamnet> If you go into advanced settings -> Stations-> Cargo Handling and turn off "Improved Loading", two trains will load in parallel. But, not equally. 18:40:58 <NGC3982> I see 18:41:02 <NGC3982> But will it load "more"? 18:43:22 <Terkhen> hanshoi: try http://canyouseeme.org/ to see if your opened ports can actually be seen from outside your lan 18:44:02 <kamnet> What do you mean by "more"? 18:44:45 <NGC3982> kamnet: If i have four equal trains on a four track station loading with or without the setting on, will i notice a change in production? 18:45:02 <NGC3982> Does it affect how much is transported, that is. 18:45:11 <NGC3982> Or is that acounted for. 18:45:38 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24916 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-01-15 18:45:27 UTC) 18:45:39 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:40 <DorpsGek> catalan - 49 changes by Bassals 18:45:41 <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 150 changes by siu238X 18:45:42 <DorpsGek> hebrew - 134 changes by taleinat 18:45:43 <DorpsGek> korean - 16 changes by telk5093 18:45:44 <DorpsGek> serbian - 49 changes by ivan_mile 18:47:00 <kamnet> NGC2982: there are several variables that affect production changes. Station rating will likely be your biggest influence, and in that case it is probably best to leave "Improved loading" on. It fills one train at a time, which means that train is leaving faster and making delivery faster, while at the same time leaving other vehicles at the station queued 18:47:31 <kamnet> If there were no vehicles waiting at the station and cargo starts to build up, your station rating will drop. If it drops below 50% ,then you will have cargo start to disappear. . 18:47:34 <NGC3982> Yeah, i guess so. 18:48:21 <kamnet> More delivery & more demand from destinations, your production may start to increase. 18:49:20 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:49:50 <kamnet> Whether or not this is the most beneficial for you, though, entirely depends on your own individual game play and goals. 18:51:48 <kamnet> If you're playing the game as originally intended, which is to make the most money as you can by 2050, it's probably best to stick with improved loading and one station. 18:54:23 <NGC3982> I see. 18:54:29 <NGC3982> Thank you. 19:00:22 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:24 <hanshoi> Terkhen: that online tool doesn't find it. However nmap says they are open. Then again that's local network. 19:11:05 * peter1138 flollops in 19:23:39 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 19:27:35 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 19:27:55 <planetmaker> peter1138, despite similar context, I'd advise against re-use of strings except trivial strings 19:28:05 <planetmaker> anything involving two words isn't trivial ;-) 19:28:25 <planetmaker> strings also got a name for a reason ;-) 19:28:43 <Supercheese> Salvete 19:28:46 <peter1138> STR_ORDER_CONDITIONAL_* 19:28:55 <peter1138> context is exactly the same 19:32:37 <Terkhen> hanshoi: if the online tool does not find the ports as opened, OpenTTD master server and your players won't see it either 19:33:26 <Terkhen> did you forward those ports in your router? 19:33:31 <hanshoi> Terkhen: I solved the problem just a moment ago. 19:33:39 <Terkhen> ok, good to hear that :) 19:34:15 <hanshoi> problem was that I'm inside a university network which apparently blocks some trafic. So finding a "common" port worked. 19:34:25 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:34:38 <hanshoi> finally can the games begin ;) 19:36:28 <Supercheese> I've got some questions about water_cmd.cpp and object_cmd.cpp that would probably be best asked in #openttd.dev -- I was given voice there once but I was silly and hadn't registered with Nickserv, so I guess I have to ask again... 19:36:35 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d0833d7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:36:40 <peter1138> ask here 19:36:48 * Supercheese asks 19:36:48 <peter1138> openttd.dev is pointless hand waving 19:37:23 <Supercheese> Ok, regarding http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5441 19:38:00 <Supercheese> Newobjects on river slopes, when they are cleared with the dynamite tool, the river beneath is destroyed, unlike with all other water tiles where the water is preserved 19:38:19 <Supercheese> As in my comment, it seems to be the fault of the MakeWaterKeepingClass function in water_cmd.cpp 19:38:46 <Supercheese> the question is, why does line 173 always set wc = WATER_CLASS_INVALID; 19:38:53 <Supercheese> if (GetTileSlope(tile, &z) != SLOPE_FLAT) 19:38:57 <NGC3982> That hilight again. 19:39:47 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:39:50 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:40:14 * Alberth waves hi 19:40:27 <Supercheese> Hmm, you just missed my question 19:40:34 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:40:54 <peter1138> did you check the svn log? 19:41:04 <Supercheese> not since 1:30 last night 19:42:10 *** hanshoi [hanshoi@kapsi.fi] has left #openttd [] 19:42:14 <Supercheese> ah, you mean earlier commits 19:42:20 * Alberth wonders how you can miss a question that you don't need :p 19:43:14 <Alberth> but yeah, look in the history how and why that line was added 19:44:36 <Supercheese> diving through logs... 19:45:12 <Supercheese> comment mentions autoslope 19:46:45 <peter1138> r13838 19:46:58 <frosch123> Supercheese: riverslopes are only valid on 4 of 15 slopes 19:47:11 <frosch123> converting other slopes into riverslopes will likely crash ottd 19:47:30 <frosch123> mind that you can autoslope under objects and thus turn previously valid water slopes into invalid water slopes 19:48:17 <Supercheese> Yes indeed 19:48:27 <Supercheese> although it doest crash, just glitches 19:48:30 <Supercheese> doesn't* 19:48:30 <peter1138> would it suffice to add a check that the current slope is valid? 19:48:39 <michi_cc> I guess it could check for those valid slopes. 19:48:56 <peter1138> it's possible then to abuse an object to change the slope 19:49:04 <Supercheese> Hmm, trunk behavior allows autoslope under objects on river slopes 19:49:08 <peter1138> is that actually a problem though :) 19:49:10 <Supercheese> and a glitch 19:49:45 <peter1138> or am i missing what autoslopes are again 19:49:50 <Supercheese> Yeah, that's another bug 19:50:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:50:11 <Supercheese> Build object on river slope, raise/lower land around it, glitch 19:50:17 <Supercheese> r24916 19:50:37 <frosch123> if it's the object that glitches, then it's a bug of the newgrf 19:50:49 <Supercheese> yes, potentially 19:51:35 <andythenorth> I vote that it's your fault Supercheese 19:51:52 <Supercheese> for the autoslope, probably :) 19:52:45 <Supercheese> still thinking the clearing problem is a OTTD issue 19:53:27 <frosch123> hmm, might be an issue of ottd nevertheless 19:53:41 <frosch123> seems like ottd enables autoslope by default unless the object disables it 19:53:47 <frosch123> i would expect the reverse 19:54:08 <Supercheese> Yes, disallowing autoslope prevents the glitching 19:54:53 <Supercheese> Huh, the build-cost problem seems to have been resolved as well 19:55:06 <Supercheese> again, likely a grf bug 19:55:49 <frosch123> hmm, looks like allow-autoslope by default is in fact intentional 19:55:54 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:55:55 <frosch123> industries do the same :) 19:56:37 <Supercheese> well, it's related to drawing foundations or not 19:56:48 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 19:56:55 <Supercheese> no foundations but no good ground-tile check + autoslope tends to be glitchy 19:57:35 <Supercheese> more grf fault than OTTD 19:58:02 *** bassals [~53390ad1@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 20:00:51 <frosch123> Supercheese: are you playing with invisible trees? 20:00:59 <frosch123> maybe your cost comes from clearing trees 20:01:09 <Supercheese> All cost issues were faults of the grf 20:01:31 <Supercheese> only remaining issue is river being destroyed when object above is dynamited 20:02:41 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 20:02:45 <drac_boy> hi 20:03:34 <Supercheese> Perhaps objects were never intended to be placed on river slopes :P 20:04:27 <frosch123> the code originates from industries 20:05:02 <frosch123> building industries at coast was considered, but building industries on rivers slopes was forgotten 20:06:13 <Supercheese> well the object code just calls MakeWaterKeepingClass on demolition, expecting that function to take care of all watery stuff 20:06:31 <frosch123> well, that is fine :) 20:06:36 <Supercheese> yeah 20:06:36 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:06:44 <frosch123> it just needs to know that rivers can exist on 4 slopes, while other water classes cannot 20:06:47 <Wolf01> hello o/ 20:06:56 <drac_boy> hi Wolf01 20:06:57 <frosch123> (well, technically sea can exist also on 4 slopes) 20:07:15 <Supercheese> coast qualifies as "sloped water"? 20:07:29 <frosch123> coast are sloped sea 20:07:33 <frosch123> but they do not flood 20:07:36 <Supercheese> interesting 20:08:25 <frosch123> the 4 slopes with on corner raised are actually real water, which also floods 20:08:31 <frosch123> *one 20:12:25 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc5f23.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:12:32 <Supercheese> I've added an else if check for river water class and stuck the invalid assignment in an else at the end 20:12:48 <Supercheese> lemme see if that stops the issue (although it may introduce others...) 20:16:57 <Supercheese> Yes, that does seem to stop the river destruction 20:17:28 <Supercheese> what else to test for unwanted side effects, hmm 20:18:25 <Supercheese> sea slopes I guess 20:23:19 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:24:11 <Supercheese> hmm, best way to make a diff 20:25:29 <peter1138> anyone for horse burgers? 20:27:13 <andythenorth> not today 20:27:21 <andythenorth> I've had zebra 20:27:30 <andythenorth> also not today 20:27:42 <andythenorth> you got a novelty burger place nearby? 20:28:11 <peter1138> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21034942 20:28:48 <Supercheese> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5441/getfile/8852/FS#5441.diff 20:29:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:32:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:32:37 <SimKill> is there a quick way to convert rail to electrified? 20:32:47 <Supercheese> hotkey C when electric rail menu open 20:32:50 <Supercheese> Convert tool 20:32:57 <SimKill> awesome 20:32:59 <SimKill> ty 20:33:01 <Supercheese> yw 20:33:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it even works with trains underneath :) 20:33:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 20:45:30 <Alberth> trains under the tracks? :o 20:46:13 <Supercheese> Fake Subways are now trains and not RVs? :O 20:52:08 <Eddi|zuHause> trains under the conversion tool, obviously... 20:52:26 <peter1138> heh 20:57:52 <NGC3982> peter1138: I doubt that the processing plants actually killed horses. 20:58:14 <NGC3982> Although, they might have fed the cows with stuff that contaigned horse, i guess. 20:59:09 <Supercheese> I prefer buffalo burgers myself 20:59:15 <Supercheese> leaner meat 20:59:52 <peter1138> NGC3982, i think i saw something about 20% of the meat 21:00:18 <NGC3982> But that was a frozen Tesco burger, right? 21:00:22 <NGC3982> Or was that from the same place? 21:00:30 <peter1138> dunno 21:00:35 <NGC3982> I guess i didn't read properly. 21:03:13 <drac_boy> Supercheese I thankfully have three choices of locally raised+prepared burgers :p talk about healthy and inexpensive altogether :) 21:03:42 <Supercheese> There's an elk farm nearby, but I've never gotten any elk meat from them. They'd probably make good burgers... 21:03:47 <Supercheese> and steaks 21:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause> milk? cheese? 21:04:43 <Supercheese> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Elkpatties.JPG 21:04:56 <Supercheese> interesting that's on Wikipedia 21:05:16 <peter1138> yeah i get local beef 21:05:30 <Supercheese> Looks like no elk in Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wapiti.png 21:05:34 <Supercheese> or Australia 21:05:55 <NGC3982> Supercheese: Canada? 21:06:16 <Supercheese> should be lots in Canada, I'm only a few hours from the border and there's loads here and north of me 21:06:47 <peter1138> Supercheese, FS#5441, what if the slope is now invalid? 21:06:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Moose_distribution.png 21:06:59 <Supercheese> That I don't entirely know 21:07:56 <Supercheese> Yeah, I'm right at the southern and western end of that moose distribution it seems, but I've had moose visit my hunting cabin :) 21:07:59 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 21:09:17 <peter1138> well you gotta test these things when submitting a patch :p 21:09:38 <Supercheese> I tested a lot of stuff, but I can't be 100% exhaustive 21:11:13 <Supercheese> it hasn't crashed or anything :P 21:11:22 <NGC3982> Supercheese: So.. You are not Canadian? 21:11:29 <NGC3982> (That was the intention of my question). :P 21:11:33 <Supercheese> Nope 21:11:36 <Supercheese> Idaho, USA 21:11:45 <Supercheese> ah, ok here we go 21:11:50 <Supercheese> slops issues indeed 21:11:52 <Supercheese> slope* 21:12:02 <frosch123> night 21:12:04 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffa9b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:17 <Supercheese> could be grf bug though 21:12:53 <NGC3982> Ah, i see. 21:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "NRA blames video games for high school shootings" ... "NRA releases 'learn shooting' computer game" 21:14:28 <Supercheese> NRA blamed gun-free zone more than video games, IIRC 21:14:31 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:14:45 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the second is, ofcourse, to train people to defend themselves and their children 21:14:54 <NGC3982> As a Swede, the American NRA feels like an extremist organisation. 21:15:16 <glx> it is ;) 21:15:23 * Supercheese is an NRA member... 21:15:30 <Rubidium> NGC3982: I think it might be classified as a terrorist organisation 21:15:40 <Supercheese> :S 21:15:54 <NGC3982> I can't say it Is a extremist organisation, but it sure feels like it from our perspective. 21:16:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: we should certainly try to get that through a european court or legislative ;) 21:16:45 <Supercheese> Well, if protecting the right to self-defense and the defense of fellow citizens is extreme, then so be it 21:17:18 <glx> we have the police for that 21:17:27 <Supercheese> police can't be everywhere all the time 21:17:30 <Rubidium> Supercheese: "terrorism is the systematic use of terror as a means of coercion" 21:17:50 <Supercheese> yes? 21:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: well, everyone outside the USA is convinced that "world where only police [and gangsters] have weapons is favourible to "world where everyone has weapons [and gangsters have more of them]" 21:18:30 <glx> and I think there would be less problems with less guns 21:19:00 <Rubidium> NRA coerces the government to not regulate guns at all, mostly by telling that not having guns kills your children (= a cause of anxiety => terror) 21:19:45 <Supercheese> In that case, the people that want to ban firearms do the same thing 21:19:59 <Rubidium> likewise, the pope is a religious fundamentalist 21:20:09 <glx> I really don't see the need to own a military weapon 21:20:57 <Supercheese> The point is to be able to protect yourself and your countrymen against any threat, especially that of a tyrannical government 21:21:08 <peter1138> lol 21:21:22 <Supercheese> y'all might not agree, but there it is 21:21:38 <Rubidium> Supercheese: so, why may you not have guns *in* government buildings? 21:21:44 <Supercheese> excellent question 21:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: "In the entire year 2011, the german police fired 86 bullets. the new york police fires 89 bullets to hunt one single maniac, killing several innocent bystanders" 21:21:50 <NGC3982> Supercheese: The problem with most peoples opinions about the NRA is not that we don't want you to defend yourselfs. The problem for me personally is that i feel that weapons don't stay in the right hands, and that weapons can be used to do other things than defending. That said, i have no idea how it really works. 21:22:02 <Supercheese> NYPD is terrible, agreed 21:22:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: of course "terrible" are always the other guys :p 21:22:49 <peter1138> isn't it about a well-armed millitia? 21:22:52 <Supercheese> yep 21:23:01 <NGC3982> Funny this is talked about, since i lost a good friend due to gunfight yesterday. 21:23:09 <peter1138> which isn't the same as well-armed random people 21:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: it's like "how do you view the work of the congress" vs. "how do you view the work of your congress representative" 21:23:13 <NGC3982> With a stolen gun. 21:24:28 <Supercheese> "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." 21:24:30 <Supercheese> -George Mason, Co-author of the Second Amendment 21:25:11 <Supercheese> "Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." -- Mohandas Gandhi 21:25:15 <glx> the context was highly different at that time 21:25:39 <Rubidium> Supercheese: again... fine line between a 17th century gun and todays assault rifles. Also, you may not have tanks or fighter planes 21:26:03 <Rubidium> to be honest, to be able to do ANYTHING against your government you need those 21:26:23 <Supercheese> I would disagree 21:26:58 <Rubidium> what would you get done with a gun? 21:27:14 <Rubidium> before you pass the metal detector you'll be shot dead twenty times 21:27:35 <Supercheese> why would I be anywhere near a metal detector? 21:28:06 <Rubidium> to go to your government to "secure a free State" 21:28:20 <NGC3982> Wait, are we seriosly talking about people having their own guns to protect themselves from ..the government? 21:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: like in syria they don't have tanks against "the government"? 21:28:36 <Supercheese> The government would first have to deprive the citizens of their liberties 21:28:49 <Supercheese> self-defense, not aggression 21:29:11 <Rubidium> Supercheese: they already deprive citizen of their liberties 21:29:19 <Supercheese> TELL me about it... 21:29:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: you can defend yourself with bare hands if you can reasonably well expect that the attacker has only his bare hands either 21:29:59 <Supercheese> I can be completely assured that the government would have much more than bare hands 21:30:44 <Rubidium> Supercheese: Bradley Manning 21:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i can completely assure you that "the government" has already lost when it has to take actual weapons against its own people 21:31:21 <Rubidium> Supercheese: although, maybe you do not believe his birth certificate and he was born in Kenya 21:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and at that point, you can _organize_ weapons 21:32:14 <Supercheese> Then Eddi, you can view the armed American populace as a deterrent to that happening; whether or not it will completely work, time will tell 21:33:49 <Rubidium> Supercheese: Jacob Appelbaum (was not allowed to make his phone call) 21:33:50 <peter1138> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Nokia-Yes-we-decrypt-HTTPS-but-we-don-t-spy-1782169.html 21:33:53 <peter1138> uh oh 21:34:00 <peter1138> not that nokia is particularly relevant now 21:34:38 <Rubidium> Supercheese: I'd also say that not being able to carry firearms into a plane is against the second amendment 21:35:01 <kamnet> NGC3982: Yes, we seriously talk about people having their own guns to protect themselves from the government. It's a concept that has worked for the entire history of the United States since 1791. 21:35:05 <Supercheese> When you board a plane, you sign a contract with the airline 21:35:13 <Supercheese> that contract can stipulate no firearms allowed 21:35:18 <Supercheese> you don't like it, don't fly commercial 21:35:22 <Supercheese> I see no problem there 21:35:32 <Rubidium> Supercheese: DMCA/PIPA/SOPA is also a nice example 21:35:51 <Supercheese> kamnet :) 21:35:59 <NGC3982> kamnet: Uhm. 21:36:04 <Supercheese> Rubidium: yes, terrible stuff 21:36:31 <NGC3982> That was a very strange argument. 21:36:49 <Supercheese> It's the extremely short version 21:37:01 <Rubidium> Supercheese: I have never had to sign anything when boarding a plane 21:37:23 <Supercheese> Yes you have, when you buy a ticket 21:37:29 <Supercheese> either via an Internet checkbox or in person 21:37:31 <kamnet> No, you don't sign, but when you buy the ticket you do agree to rules and there is a contract involved. 21:37:37 <Rubidium> and more often than not, flights are booked by someone else so I never agreed with anything either 21:37:51 <Supercheese> someone agreed with something with the airline, I assure you 21:37:56 <kamnet> If somebody else booked it for you, then you authroized them as your agent. 21:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: you don't seriously expect other providers to do it different? 21:38:39 <peter1138> yes :S 21:38:41 <Rubidium> kamnet: I doubt that holds in court in all cases, e.g. when your boss orders someone to book flights for you 21:38:50 <NGC3982> kamnet: And ..uhm, you beleive in a concept where everyone has a gun at home, so they can defend themselves if the government does ..something horrible to you? 21:39:01 <NGC3982> I just want to make sure i got that properly. 21:39:06 <Supercheese> If anyone, not just the government 21:39:24 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 21:39:38 <NGC3982> And the guns that get's stolen and then used 21:39:40 <NGC3982> What about them? 21:39:47 <kamnet> NGC3982: In concept, yes. I personally do not have one nor see the need to. 21:39:56 <Supercheese> They are guns that are stolen and used... 21:39:56 <Rubidium> Supercheese: exactly the reason I should be able to take my massive assault rifle onto planes. If there is a terrorist, I can shoot them! 21:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: how could they block skype if they wouldn't decrypt encrypted connections? 21:40:10 <kamnet> By my own personal state of security is quite secure, I don't feel any need to own one. 21:40:33 <NGC3982> kamnet: This might be due to cultural differences, but i feel that the problems that comes with weapons outweight that concept in googolplexes. 21:40:43 <kamnet> Americans, by and large, do not own assault rifles. Those that do have an explicit license from the government to do so. 21:40:45 <peter1138> i don't think mine does 21:40:55 <Rubidium> oh yes... the "it's not the guns that kill, it's the people that use them". So... why is drinking and driving disallowed? 21:41:10 <Supercheese> Rubidium: that responsibility is delegated to air marshals by contractual agreement 21:41:32 <Rubidium> after all, it's the drunk driver that kills, not the car 21:41:58 <Rubidium> and as long as you feel threathened you can shoot anyone (in at least Florida) 21:42:02 <peter1138> that was a nice steak 21:42:02 <kamnet> NGC3982: It is a cultural difference. Ours is rooted in the fact that a government did, at one time, send hordes of soldiers to live in peoples houses, at the people's own expense, who then went from town to town to remove weapons so that the people could not oppose the government. 21:42:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'm sure drunk shooting is not forbidden :p 21:42:16 <Supercheese> Rubidium: yes, as long as you're prepared for the legal cases that will likely ensue 21:42:33 <NGC3982> kamnet: And that government is your current government? 21:43:05 <Rubidium> oh... did you know that firing a shot straight in the air gives you more jail time than actually killing someone? (in Florida) 21:43:11 <NGC3982> kamnet: You know, we once had a king that wanted to kill every single Swede. That does not really mean i can blame our current (nutcase). :) 21:43:17 <NGC3982> Rubidium: That sounds highly unlikely. 21:43:25 <kamnet> No, but the politicians who set up the next government wrote in a clause to ensure that if such a government, whether it be theirs or a future one, ever thought about it, they would know that they would be opposed. 21:43:26 <Supercheese> firing a shot in the air has easily the potential to kill someone 21:43:39 <Supercheese> reckless endangerment 21:43:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: legal court rulings are a totally different topic :p 21:44:09 <Supercheese> the point is to deter any government from becoming that tyrannical 21:44:38 <Supercheese> "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. " -- Thomas Jefferson 21:44:56 <NGC3982> Yes, we know you can quote people 21:45:08 <NGC3982> Poetry does not make American guns go less bang 21:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: certainly no amount of weapons makes "the government" "fear" anyone... 21:45:30 <Supercheese> does it not? 21:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause> most certainly not. 21:46:15 <NGC3982> I'm with Eddi here. It doesn't really matter if you have a Glock under your bed if your government starts turning on you. 21:46:24 <NGC3982> Specially not in the US. 21:46:36 <Supercheese> As I said earlier, you may think that way, that's fine. 21:46:44 <kamnet> It actually does. You may not win that fight, but at least you have a better chance. 21:46:52 <Supercheese> We would disagree, of course 21:47:16 <NGC3982> And you don't feel like it's a better deal to simply make sure the government can't turn on you? 21:47:20 <Supercheese> Countries are different :O 21:47:22 <kamnet> And because of that guaranteed right, America has had a stable government for 231 years. There aren't many countries who can say that. 21:47:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: germany has had "tyrannical" governments, but certainly that was not because it had soldiers standing everywhere to "enforce" it 21:47:27 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 21:47:38 <NGC3982> Yes, countries are different, but that does not mean you must turn into North Korea. 21:47:48 <Supercheese> North Korea? 21:48:07 <kamnet> Woot, GF calling be back in a bit 21:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: syria? libya? 21:48:14 <Supercheese> kamnet, stability not the best argument 21:48:40 <NGC3982> Supercheese: Yes, you should not have to count on your government turning evil on their own people. 21:48:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: it's not like ghaddhafi said "oh they have weapons, i give up!" 21:48:49 <NGC3982> That means you have a bigger problem then gun control. 21:49:00 <Eddi|zuHause> weapons do not solve the problem that is stated 21:49:02 <Supercheese> Indeed we do, the Human Condition 21:49:31 <Eddi|zuHause> you can overthrow a government without any weapons at all (india) 21:49:43 <Supercheese> I refer you to the Gandhi quote earlier 21:49:50 <peter1138> the real problem is that americans want to have guns, and that is solved by letting them have guns 21:50:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: you mean the totally-out-of-context-forged-for-my-own-argument quote? 21:50:15 <__ln__> is a foreign tourist allowed to carry a gun in the US? 21:50:15 <NGC3982> peter1138: True. 21:50:24 <peter1138> anything else like protection or whatever is just an excuse 21:50:33 <Supercheese> I can grab context if you wish 21:50:58 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: there was a swiss soldier who travelled to germany fully armed and equipped 21:51:13 <NGC3982> __ln__: I guess Sweden and Suomi have quite similar gun laws. 21:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: neither the german customs/police nor the swiss supervisors liked that :p 21:51:54 <Rubidium> peter1138: I don't think it is "Americans", but NRA. The majority of Americans are not opposed to regulating assault rifles 21:52:05 <Supercheese> http://books.google.com/books?id=VsMLYjEsyaEC&pg=PA446#v=onepage&q&f=false 21:52:16 *** bassals [~53390ad1@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:52:19 <Rubidium> however, pushing such a law would mean you will lose the next election 21:52:49 <__ln__> NGC3982: i guess... 21:52:50 <NGC3982> Nobody answers what happends when guns are being stolen from people. 21:53:08 <Supercheese> What happens is that guns are stolen 21:53:23 <Rubidium> NGC3982: nothing; the cops need to solve the murders made with the stolen guns 21:53:26 <NGC3982> __ln__: You fins only use knife anyway *pulls out the ol' book of cliches* 21:53:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: guns would be less likely to get stolen if people wouldn't have guns in the first place 21:54:07 <NGC3982> That was my point, i guess. 21:54:18 <Supercheese> Let's replace guns with cars 21:54:23 <NGC3982> Are there statistics on how many of the murders are made with stolen weapons? 21:54:31 <Supercheese> People would be less likely to have their cars stolen if there were less cars 21:54:40 <NGC3982> Supercheese: Yes, that is true. 21:55:14 <NGC3982> The purpose of a stolen car is to either drive or sell. I wouldn't steal a gun to drive it, ill say. 21:55:32 <Supercheese> I'd expect people steal guns to sell as well 21:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: speaking of cars: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/american-gun-deaths-to-exceed-traffic-fatalities-by-2015.html 21:55:39 <Supercheese> I have no statistics available, though 21:55:56 <Supercheese> Deaths caused by firearms include criminals being shot 21:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: so why should criminals being shot be tolerated? 21:56:44 <Eddi|zuHause> criminals are to be put before a court of law 21:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> they better be alive for that 21:57:01 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Seriosly, it's that bad? 21:57:12 <Supercheese> Would you rather the criminal kill his victim, rather than the victim being armed and killing the criminal in self defense? 21:57:46 <NGC3982> That's a circular argument. If none of them had a gun in the first place, you wouldn't have this problem. 21:57:51 <glx> and what if the criminal is using the victim weapon to kill it ? 21:57:51 <Supercheese> I can't say, but I expect a large portion of those firearms deaths to be criminals shot by their armed would-be victims 21:57:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: so how likely is a (non-organized-crime) criminal to be armed in a world where "nobody" has arms? 21:57:57 <NGC3982> As we don't here in Sweden, for instance. 21:57:57 <NGC3982> .. 21:58:05 <Rubidium> or C) killing a non-criminal in "self defense" even though there was no threat 21:58:19 <Supercheese> keep in mind "arms" can be more than firearms 21:58:40 <Supercheese> Rubidium: another number I don't know, but would be surely far less 21:58:59 <Rubidium> I wouldn't know with "stand my ground" type of laws 21:59:04 <Supercheese> glx: and what if the criminal is using the victim weapon to kill it ? then the victim failed in his obligation as a firearms owner 21:59:33 <Rubidium> "I'm a little scared of that guy that walks there, oh I can just shoot him and say it was self defense" 21:59:51 <Supercheese> "and then get dragged to court and convicted of multiple crimes" 21:59:58 <Rubidium> really, do you want a civilian to be playing judge and executioner? 21:59:59 <__ln__> wouldn't it be good for citizens to stock some nuclear weapons at home, to have a credible defense against the government? 22:00:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: allegedly a person once was found 'not guilty' on a "he had it coming" defence 22:00:17 <NGC3982> __ln__: :D 22:00:24 <NGC3982> __ln__: Or a tank, or an F18. 22:00:31 <NGC3982> I want an F18. 22:00:32 <NGC3982> :( 22:00:36 <Supercheese> Rifles have toppled far, far more governments than nuclear weapons 22:00:37 <Rubidium> Supercheese: actually, with "stand your ground" you can request to drop the case before it goes to court (and often it is dropped) 22:00:47 <NGC3982> And a machine gun prepared MagLev. 22:00:51 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: get a MIG, they're cheaper :p 22:01:03 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:01:04 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: And easier to repair! 22:01:18 <Supercheese> and besides, nuclear weapons are mentioned nowhere in the Constitution 22:01:18 <__ln__> NGC3982: your lucky day, F18 was released today: http://fedoraproject.org/sv/get-fedora 22:01:30 <Rubidium> Supercheese: mostly because the mess of nuclear weapons is much bigger, i.e. the civilian casualties of "decent" governments 22:01:46 <NGC3982> __ln__: Harr. 22:02:17 <NGC3982> I love how Americans worships the constitution. 22:02:35 <NGC3982> Even making a really bad movie about stealing it. 22:02:42 <NGC3982> Seriosly, that was barely a movie. 22:02:43 <Rubidium> Supercheese: you should stock some mustard gas (after all, it's an arm) 22:02:44 * NGC3982 is so bored. 22:02:50 <Supercheese> I think it comes down to different philosophies, those that believe an armed populace and the proper laws/responsibilities that go with it is more desirable, and those that believe a disarmed populace with the laws/regulations is more desirable 22:02:52 <__ln__> Supercheese: does the constitution explicitly say what kind of weapons it refers to? 22:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> fun fact: german law punishes "causing a nuclear explosion" less than actually killing someone :p 22:03:35 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: :D 22:03:46 <peter1138> has it ever happened? :p 22:03:50 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: I do hope that law was passed before 1945. 22:03:57 <Supercheese> Mustard gas and the like are not weapons of war, they are weapons of terror 22:04:16 <NGC3982> Agent Orange? 22:04:23 <Rubidium> Supercheese: so are nuclear weapons 22:04:28 <Supercheese> indeed 22:04:29 <NGC3982> Mixed with hydrazine and U238. 22:04:36 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: you wouldn't want to have most laws passed before 1945 in germany :p 22:04:41 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Hehe 22:05:34 <NGC3982> By the way 22:05:57 <NGC3982> We are safe on Apophis 22:05:58 <peter1138> shared route restrictions: good idea or not? 22:06:03 <peter1138> (like shared orders i suppose) 22:06:27 <NGC3982> Recent trajectory calculations does not show that it's bound to run nearby any keyhole area. 22:06:28 <Supercheese> "only trains with speed greater than blah through here"? 22:06:42 <NGC3982> Supercheese: I would like that. 22:07:05 <Supercheese> is that what "route restrictions" mean? 22:07:08 <peter1138> if you want 22:07:12 <Supercheese> :) 22:07:17 <NGC3982> Feels like a good word for it, yes. 22:07:18 <Rubidium> also, the question is: why does the US have so many criminals? 22:07:35 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: "only members of group X,Y,Z" maybe 22:07:40 <NGC3982> I could definetly use that, since i often build hub stations 22:08:00 <Supercheese> Is that the GUI you've been writing? 22:08:34 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: attached to waypons, stations, signals, arbitrary tiles, ... ? 22:08:53 <peter1138> just waypoints at the moment 22:08:59 <Supercheese> Waypoints, ok 22:09:07 <peter1138> although technically any station (but not per-tile) 22:09:10 *** Voratius [82cc4ce8@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:09:12 <peter1138> (waypoints are stations) 22:09:12 <Eddi|zuHause> platforms would be best for my purposes 22:09:14 <Voratius> Heey. 22:09:22 <Voratius> Do we have any server specialists here? 22:09:33 <Eddi|zuHause> espesially road stations 22:09:39 <NGC3982> A scenario where i would use that is when i use non-stop orders trough existing stations 22:09:49 <Supercheese> brb 22:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> (if next stop = X, use this loading bay, if next stop = Y, use that) 22:10:00 <Voratius> So, I set up a server, port forwarded on my cisco(can provide pics), and yet, my friends get "Network: Game Connection Lost" 22:10:04 <NGC3982> It would be neat to make that work without waypoints 22:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Voratius: increase the timeouts for joining= 22:10:42 <Voratius> they're at 50,000 right now 22:10:44 <Voratius> max_join_time 22:11:09 <Voratius> lemme take a pic of the forward 22:11:45 <Voratius> puu.sh/1Obpk 22:11:50 *** Maedhros [~maedhros@46.208.98.125] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:11:58 <Rubidium> connection lost implies there has been a connection, so the forwarding is likely not broken 22:12:25 <Voratius> Oh wait! It works now. Thanks for the help. 22:12:44 <glx> very big map ? 22:12:54 <Rubidium> also, if the timeout is the issue I think that is mentioned to the user and server owner 22:13:16 <Voratius> Don't know if the map is big, where can I change the size of the server map 22:13:28 <Rubidium> so it sounds like an unreliable connection to me (bad wireless?) 22:13:29 <Eddi|zuHause> could be lossy WLAN or stuff 22:13:37 <Voratius> i get Closed client connection on my side, in the logs 22:13:39 <Voratius> but it works now 22:13:59 <NGC3982> Seriosly, after what happend my friend today, i feel a bit disgusted while reading the gunlaw conversation today. 22:14:03 <NGC3982> I shouldn't, though. 22:14:18 <Voratius> So, how do I change the map size? 22:14:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Voratius: map_x and map_y 22:14:30 <NGC3982> Voratius: rcon or config? 22:14:46 <Voratius> config, I believe. I ran it from my openTTD -D shortcut 22:14:51 <Voratius> found it. 22:14:59 <Voratius> it says 10 and 10, how much are they multiplied by? 22:15:15 <glx> so 1024*1024 22:15:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Voratius: that's 2^10x2^10 so 1024x1024 22:15:25 <Voratius> holy shit 22:15:26 <glx> that's a big map 22:15:28 <Voratius> that's big 22:15:58 <Voratius> so i have to put it at 5 and 5 for 512x512 22:16:04 <Eddi|zuHause> range is 6 to 11 22:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause> 512 would be 9 22:16:18 <glx> 9 and 9 22:16:23 <Voratius> Oooh 22:16:28 <Voratius> Thanks. 22:16:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it doubles with every step 22:16:52 <peter1138> powers of 2 woo 22:17:49 <Voratius> how can I change actual landscape, like hilly, and stuff like that 22:18:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Voratius: easiest way would be to prepare the game in single player and upload it to the server, then load it there with the -g option 22:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Voratius: but all these settings are in the .cfg somewhere 22:19:08 <Voratius> Yeah, I need a terrain one. I think they'll get sick of the same old map 22:19:33 <Voratius> found it 22:19:40 <Voratius> they wanted hilly, so Terrain_Type should be 2 22:20:06 <Eddi|zuHause> 2 sounds very medium-ish 22:20:14 <Voratius> That's what it says here 22:20:21 <Voratius> 2 is hilly, 3 is mountain 22:22:56 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: did they do something about that law about non-EU PhDs getting arrested for calling themselves doktors? 22:23:32 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: not entirely sure 22:23:38 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:23:41 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:24:09 * Zuu makes a note to himself to pick a better window to test things on than the content download window which takes a quater of an infinity to load in debug mode. :-p 22:24:15 <__ln__> that law is/was from the 1930s as far as i understand 22:24:28 <Voratius> They want full water borders. Which value is best for them? 22:25:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Voratius: i expect that to be a bitmask 22:25:27 <glx> or some value set to false 22:25:42 <Voratius> says bitset here 22:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, so it's either all 1 (15) or all 0 (0) 22:26:20 <Voratius> I set it to 1, well, that was the default 22:27:01 <Voratius> so 22:27:12 <Voratius> every time my world resets(reaches reset year) 22:27:18 <Voratius> do I manually have to reset it? 22:27:25 <Voratius> as in, restart 22:27:31 <Eddi|zuHause> reset year is automatic 22:28:03 <Voratius> So I don't need to stay up all night to reset the world once it reachees 2050, for example? 22:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause> you could test it with some low value (1 year only takes <15 minutes) 22:29:02 *** St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:30:47 <Voratius> Closing my laptop's lid makes the server die if i open it again :c 22:30:59 <glx> just checked the source about water_border, it's a bitset so 15 for all (there's also a special value for random : 16) 22:31:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Voratius: possibly some powersave feature that shuts down the network device? 22:31:36 <Voratius> Yeep 22:31:42 <Voratius> Is there any way to disable it? 22:31:54 <Voratius> Ripping the key off will obviously not work 22:31:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Voratius: i have no clue about your laptop 22:32:00 <Voratius> HP 655 22:32:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't really help 22:32:37 <Voratius> Gosh darn it 22:32:54 <glx> maybe it goes into suspend to ram or suspend to drive mode 22:33:07 <Voratius> It disables wireless 22:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a total misfeature 22:34:53 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:35:05 <Voratius> Heh. 22:35:41 <Terkhen> good night 22:36:04 <Voratius> Night 22:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll do some functional analysis, so good bye as well :) 22:40:08 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:41:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A3BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:21 <__ln__> supermop: you missed the big gun debate 22:48:14 <Voratius> Thanks for your help guys. I better head to sleep 22:48:19 *** Voratius [82cc4ce8@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:55:29 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: only a small part of the discussion was about big guns 22:58:12 <__ln__> let me rephrase: "you missed the {big} {gun debate}" 22:58:31 <__ln__> that's what happens when a language doesn't have proper compound nouns 22:59:49 <NGC3982> __ln__: A compound noun is a "ihopskrivning", right? 23:00:17 <NGC3982> Ah, yes it was. 23:00:21 <NGC3982> And that's true. 23:02:16 <NGC3982> I can't say how the Fins do it, but i usually enjoy when Swedes miss out on proper compund nouns. 23:02:33 * Zuu feels excited. He can now close his content download window by clicking on the total download size. (note clicking on the rest of the string other than the string parameter does not close the window) 23:02:34 <__ln__> it's *Finns 23:02:50 <NGC3982> __ln__: Oh, really? 23:02:59 <peter1138> hmm, my dvb tuner appears not to work :S 23:03:01 <__ln__> really. 23:03:14 <NGC3982> "I'm going to visit a sick sister", or "Have a drunk shrimp sandwich". 23:03:29 <NGC3982> __ln__: I see. 23:03:29 <peter1138> or the antenna i suppose 23:03:33 <NGC3982> __ln__: Why is that, by the way. 23:04:10 <NGC3982> Oh, i just realized it's my birthday. 23:04:23 <Supercheese> Felix die natalis tibi! 23:04:34 <__ln__> NGC3982: Finnish rules for compound nouns are very similar to those of Swedish; and yes, a lot of people are doing it wrong. 23:05:06 <__ln__> NGC3982: Can't tell why. 23:05:33 <NGC3982> I hate that. 23:05:54 <NGC3982> I had a discussion about the word "skjuta" (to shoot) yesterday 23:06:06 <NGC3982> And why one would remove the j when bending it. 23:06:36 <__ln__> Me too. I also hate when people are doing it wrong in Swedish or even Danish. (I'm assuming Danish has similar rules, does it?) 23:06:47 <NGC3982> "to shoot": skjuta. "did shoot": sköt. 23:07:02 <__ln__> And why would one remove the "s" when pronouncing it.... 23:07:09 <NGC3982> __ln__: Yes, they do. All the Scandinavian languages. 23:07:44 <NGC3982> __ln__: Well, i can understand the s-part. It's a modern take on the original word, and is used on all the forms of the word. 23:07:48 <Markk> __ln__: Because Swedish have the "sje"-sound. 23:08:18 <__ln__> Markk: which sounds like "h"? 23:08:19 <Markk> __ln__: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sj-sound 23:08:33 <Markk> __ln__: Somewhat like the English H, yes. 23:08:41 <Markk> __ln__: Not like the Swedish H. 23:08:56 <Markk> __ln__: Like the Dutch soft G. 23:09:09 <NGC3982> Markk: Do we really use the sj-sound for skjuta, though? 23:09:33 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0/20130104151925]] 23:09:39 <Markk> NGC3982: yes. 23:09:43 <Markk> NGC3982: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sje-ljudet 23:09:48 <Markk> NGC3982: See "skjorta". 23:09:55 <__ln__> The Finland-Swedish pronunciation makes more sense. 23:09:59 <NGC3982> Ah, "7" made me understand 23:10:14 <NGC3982> "Sj" (just by looking at it) != "skj"uta.. 23:10:17 <Markk> __ln__: Like the Dutch town "Groeningen" is pronounced Schröningen. 23:10:55 <Markk> That sound is just a bit further down the throat from our "sj-sound". 23:11:17 <NGC3982> A jewish shhh. 23:11:18 <NGC3982> :D 23:11:27 <__ln__> when i become the king of europe, there will be certain changes to pronunciation in various languages. 23:11:48 <NGC3982> That's not encouraging coming from a Finn. 23:12:08 <kamnet> You'll have to pry the sj-sound from my cold, dead throat! ;-) 23:12:09 * NGC3982 introduces lingual racism. 23:12:15 <NGC3982> Hehe 23:12:28 <Markk> __ln__: Hm, you don't have a king in Finland, mate. 23:12:51 <Markk> Our sj-sound is a voiceless retroflex sibilant. 23:12:54 <NGC3982> Markk: Speaking of, you might help us here. You went to a Swedish school as a kid, right? 23:13:04 <Markk> NGC3982: Uhm, yes. 23:13:07 <Markk> NGC3982: Didn't you? 23:13:24 <NGC3982> Markk: We had a small discussion regarding Swedes not being taught enough about Finland in school. 23:13:25 <Markk> Would I be so fucked up otherwise? 23:13:43 <Markk> I did not learn that much from school really. 23:13:53 <NGC3982> And i agreed, since i - and most people i know - have very little knowledge of Finnish culture. 23:13:54 <Markk> I've just learned what I wanted otherwise. 23:14:08 <Markk> I have some knowledge because I'm part finnish. 23:14:16 <Markk> And just wanted to know how big the difference is. 23:14:26 <Markk> (It's not too big, exept for the language) 23:14:27 <NGC3982> I see. 23:15:23 <__ln__> Markk: currently not, true. 23:15:42 <NGC3982> Crap. 23:15:46 <NGC3982> I put my foot in the poop. 23:16:01 <NGC3982> I started saying thank you to the first congratulation messages on Facebook 23:16:05 <NGC3982> Now i have to do it to all of them. 23:16:11 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:17:07 *** chester_1 [~chester@95-28-128-205.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:17:16 <NGC3982> Now i have to kill all of them.* 23:19:38 <__ln__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:King_of_Finland%27s_crown2.jpg 23:20:08 <NGC3982> The king of finland is of course an ice bear. 23:20:12 <NGC3982> Or santa. 23:20:19 <NGC3982> I would prefer santa. 23:21:20 <__ln__> (how does one even manage to take such a crappy photo of something that isn't even moving) 23:21:41 <NGC3982> I was just about to point that out. It's a horrible Wiki picture. 23:21:51 <NGC3982> Actually, you should submit for someone changing it. 23:22:01 <peter1138> probably zoomed in 23:22:09 <peter1138> taken with a phone camera 23:22:22 <NGC3982> Shouldn't be too hard finding a new public domain picture. 23:23:38 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc5f23.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:09 <peter1138> it's a wiki 23:27:11 <peter1138> go for it :p 23:40:35 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:44:14 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:49:48 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:17 *** Celestar_ [~vici@mnch-4d04ea45.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd