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00:00:40 <Supercheese> Hmm, didn't they have armed guards? 00:01:53 <peter1138> will probably have security stepped up a bit now 00:02:11 <Supercheese> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hHLH8LBDq8lElmmdnx1ihuUNK-Ng?docId=84e73405bcf74cc7bdb3e56c219a906f 00:02:14 <Supercheese> "gas pistol"? 00:04:48 <FLHerne> Pokka: Multiplayer, with big computers and long games :P 00:05:51 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-5d8544f1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: a "gas pistol" is usually a device that propells its projectiles by gas pressure instead of a small explosion 00:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i played a game on 2048x1024 with very few towns once 00:13:43 <Eddi|zuHause> on daylength 4 or 8 00:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i managed a line all the way through 00:14:11 <Eddi|zuHause> but probably around half the map i still never touched 00:18:26 <peter1138> hmm 00:18:33 <peter1138> how do water industries even work? 00:20:00 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-171-158.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:22:50 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:23:50 <Supercheese> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, I looked it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_pistol 00:24:26 <Supercheese> it seems it does use powder explosives from that description, though, as opposed to a compressed air pistol 00:25:42 *** Pokka [~Octomom@d58-106-42-20.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:31:34 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:36:06 <Terkhen> good night 00:36:52 <planetmaker> good night here, too 00:37:09 <Supercheese> Valete, dormituri 00:48:07 <Wolf01> night all 00:48:14 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:50:00 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:57:51 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 01:04:06 <peter1138> oh, maybe this is it 01:04:08 <peter1138> in which case... grrr 01:04:32 <peter1138> yes, fixed it.grrr. 01:13:09 <Supercheese> Fixed is good, no? 01:26:56 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:29:10 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0f059.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 01:31:17 <peter1138> yes but i wasted time :p 01:33:34 <peter1138> also it's nasty :( 01:33:47 <Supercheese> Nasty? 01:33:57 <peter1138> yeah, docks are 01:34:10 <Supercheese> Pathfinding weirdness, yeah 01:34:34 <peter1138> for all other types, vehicles stop directly on a station tile 01:34:47 <peter1138> for ships, they stop on a water tile near the station 01:35:24 <peter1138> therefore instead of just checking that the current tile is a station tile it needs to check if the tiles adjacent to the current tile are station tiles 01:36:02 <peter1138> except then there's always 8 to check 01:36:31 <peter1138> so instead it goes through the list of docks for the target station and checks if the tile is the docking tile for that dock 01:37:39 <peter1138> that list will usually be 1 item, so in theory it's only checking 1 instead of 8 tiles 01:37:42 <peter1138> but 01:38:14 <peter1138> it needs to do that for every tile the pathfinder follows :S 01:39:59 <peter1138> possibly way to simplify it is to add a 3rd invisible dock tile at the docking point that allows ships on it 01:41:09 <peter1138> oh and every step the ship takes it has to check too :S 01:41:11 <peter1138> damn 01:42:22 <Supercheese> Ship pathfinding has always seemed ridiculous... 01:42:32 <peter1138> why? 01:42:56 <Supercheese> When you force them into areas with little room to maneuver, they tend to trigger the "ship is lost" message 01:43:07 <Supercheese> but then they magically fix themselves and are not lost 01:43:25 <peter1138> well give them room then :p 01:43:58 <Supercheese> and ships always no-clip through everything 01:44:09 <Supercheese> other ship in the way? just clip right through... 01:56:45 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 01:56:48 <drac_boy> hi 01:57:33 <Supercheese> Howdy 01:59:49 <drac_boy> how doing supercheese? and still got any seagulls? :) 01:59:51 <drac_boy> heh 02:00:15 <Supercheese> Yep, my object set now has seagulls, ice / ice floes, a shipwreck, and lots of rocks 02:00:27 <Supercheese> next I'm working in frozen rivers/riverbanks 02:00:30 <Supercheese> on* 02:02:09 <drac_boy> mm.... ice? 0_o 02:02:15 <drac_boy> hope thats only on arctic maps :P 02:02:30 <Supercheese> They're just objects, you can place them or not place them :) 02:03:20 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:03:53 <Supercheese> If/when I get a GameScript able to place objects, though, then yeah, Ice will probably only be for arctic 02:03:56 <drac_boy> well ice != hot weather = tropical 02:03:58 <drac_boy> ;) 02:04:02 <drac_boy> heh heh 02:04:22 <drac_boy> that aside, how're you Supercheese? 02:04:37 <Supercheese> Hungry, at the moment 02:05:37 <drac_boy> mm 02:06:13 <Supercheese> "Food transported this hour: 0. User needs food to grow." :P 02:06:38 <Supercheese> well, growth may not be as desirable in my case ;) 02:07:04 <Supercheese> horizontal rather than vertical :S 02:07:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19AA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:43 <drac_boy> :p 02:17:56 *** user54367644 [~user@211.234.225.142] has joined #openttd 02:23:47 *** user54367644 [~user@211.234.225.142] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 02:43:32 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 03:06:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C9B9.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:03 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 03:53:22 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.88.116] has joined #openttd 05:31:48 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC677B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67783.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:38:07 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 07:31:51 *** Hellowin [~Hellowin@114.5.5.165] has joined #openttd 07:32:37 <Hellowin> test 07:34:06 *** Hellowin [~Hellowin@114.5.5.165] has quit [] 08:12:00 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:12:35 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has joined #openttd 08:36:24 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:39:38 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 08:45:30 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:47:33 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.1/20130116073211]] 08:52:52 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:52:55 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:53:21 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 09:03:40 <planetmaker> moin 09:13:10 <peter1138> hi 09:13:23 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:13:43 <peter1138> hmmm, i wonder if... 09:16:08 <Alberth> moin 09:27:11 <planetmaker> hm, I should go vote... let's check wahl-o-mat whom to vote for :D 09:30:57 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 09:31:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19A81.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:32:13 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 09:33:07 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-189-134.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:33:21 <Rubidium> planetmaker: if you're conservative, vote for the Fyra. That won't move for a long time ;) 09:33:56 <V453000> if you want to have good fun voting, come to czech republic 09:34:33 <peter1138> hmm, yeah, that works but looks uuuuugly 09:34:57 <planetmaker> fyra? Sounds like a train project in the Netherlands? Not that I really heard much of it... but there's a question about whether the harbours should get better train connectivity here. Which they imho should 09:35:10 <planetmaker> not passenger, but cargo 09:35:12 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 09:35:39 <V453000> more beer, less passengers 09:35:44 <planetmaker> ^^ 09:35:45 <V453000> sounds good to me 09:36:03 <planetmaker> less passengers by more beer is also feasible :D 09:37:27 <Rubidium> planetmaker: so how's the third track from Zevenaar towards the Ruhr area going? 09:37:39 <V453000> anything around more beer is very feasible, especially when improved by less people 09:39:57 <planetmaker> Rubidium: that's outside the authority which is up to vote by me today 09:40:20 <planetmaker> it's just lower Saxony parliament voting time. Not federal government 09:41:17 <planetmaker> (and honestly, I don't know how it's going) 09:41:53 <peter1138> so multistop docks work 09:42:06 <peter1138> but i don't like the amount of searching it needs :( 09:44:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:45:19 <planetmaker> hi andythenorth 09:45:28 <andythenorth> o/ 09:45:34 <andythenorth> Pikka 09:45:37 <andythenorth> game? 09:45:51 <andythenorth> peter1138 ^ 09:47:03 <peter1138> maybe it would be beneficial to test if the current tile is within the area of the docks 09:49:54 <andythenorth> ro-ro all the things 09:50:00 * andythenorth refers to stations 10:06:19 <Alberth> o/ 10:12:12 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:29:01 <andythenorth> it's FLHerne 10:29:04 <andythenorth> playing MP? 10:29:24 <FLHerne> What's me? 10:29:43 * FLHerne has only just got past 'drink tea' :P 10:30:46 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Not presently. Is an interesting MP game currently in existence? 10:30:59 <andythenorth> FLHerne: it's on peter1138's server 10:31:06 <andythenorth> we're all paused and waiting for you :P 10:31:15 <FLHerne> Oh, really? :-) 10:31:23 <FLHerne> What's the IP/server name? 10:31:35 * FLHerne is a bit asleep still 10:32:50 <andythenorth> peter1138's nightly 10:32:59 <FLHerne> Ah, found it. Now I need different NewStats :-/ 10:33:09 <FLHerne> Stupid non-Bananas things... 10:33:24 <FLHerne> Nice grf, irritatating distribution policy :D 10:38:44 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc7d7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:43:26 <andythenorth> hrm 10:43:32 * andythenorth needs multi-docks :( 10:43:59 <peter1138> trying to recreate that pbs bug 10:49:33 <andythenorth> herp 10:50:08 * andythenorth has livestock issues 10:51:42 <andythenorth> hmm 10:51:53 <andythenorth> maybe farms should have a lower requirement for supplies than extractive industry 10:51:58 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc7d7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:52:00 * peter1138 blames it on andythenorth for deliberately crashing his trains in a station 10:52:06 <andythenorth> 'deliberately' :) 10:55:37 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:00:18 <peter1138> new favourite way to play: enable colouring of dirty blocks and hold ctrl-B 11:00:58 <andythenorth> it's like 1986 11:01:24 <peter1138> industry tiles update a lot 11:01:51 <planetmaker> hm, no supercheese here 11:19:17 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc7d7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:29:14 <andythenorth> hmm 11:29:25 * andythenorth tries to figure out a way to prioritise cargo for some routes 11:29:39 <andythenorth> only loading vehicles for other routes when there's surplus 11:38:10 <Alberth> I was wondering about a distributed approach 11:38:56 <Alberth> each cargo has a destination. A train asks whether it wants to travel along, and the cargo can decide "yeah, you're going in the right direction", and hop on 11:40:08 <Alberth> where the simplest form of 'right direction' is distance to the target from the current location and from the next stop of the train 11:41:01 <Alberth> that might cost virtually no cpu time at all 11:42:14 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 11:42:19 <drac_boy> hi 11:43:21 <andythenorth> Alberth: manhattan / pythag distance, or pathfinder? 11:44:27 <Alberth> in the first implementation, manhattan would be fine 11:44:59 <andythenorth> so don't bother building the link graph/ 11:45:00 <andythenorth> ? 11:45:13 <Alberth> the tricky bit where I am still stuck is how to decide the cargo won't get any further, so it is time to do final cost calculations 11:45:59 <planetmaker> Alberth, but that might lead to quite bad results, depending on the topology of the network 11:46:00 <Alberth> link graph is a more advanced form of deciding 'right direction' 11:47:22 <Alberth> planetmaker: I know, but we clearly don't yet understand how to do it efficiently enough when doing it centrally, so it needs a different approach 11:48:29 <planetmaker> :-) yup, agreed 11:49:54 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:50:03 <Alberth> moin Wolf01 11:50:27 <Wolf01> moin 11:52:21 <fonsinchen> Is that approach n+3 to cargo destinations? 11:52:35 <fonsinchen> I'd say distance to destination is too simple. 11:53:13 <andythenorth> I did once figure out the concept 11:53:14 <Alberth> it is, no doubt about it 11:53:22 <andythenorth> but the implementation was beyond me, even a test :P 11:53:53 <Alberth> but if you start from "we need optimal central path finding", you're never going to find a cheaper alternative 11:54:17 <andythenorth> ah 11:54:26 <andythenorth> my concept wasn't guaranteed optimal 11:54:28 <andythenorth> in any form 11:54:38 <andythenorth> it was shown that it could trivially be 'odd' 11:54:48 <andythenorth> but it was simple 11:54:58 <fonsinchen> how did it work? 11:55:37 <andythenorth> key thing was that it didn't need a source-destination-cargo triple 11:55:44 <andythenorth> just a destination-cargo pair 11:56:25 <fonsinchen> Why destination? In my experience the most common pitfall is routing each cargo packet individually 11:56:31 <fonsinchen> that is expensive. 11:56:51 <fonsinchen> Cargodist just saves general directions for each source of cargo at each intermediary hop 11:57:06 <andythenorth> idea was to work back from the destination 11:57:07 <fonsinchen> That avoids routing calculations in the game loop. 11:57:24 <andythenorth> just assign a weight to every node, in reverse, working outwards from destination 11:57:30 <andythenorth> destination gets weight 0 11:57:37 <andythenorth> each next link adds 1 11:57:53 <Alberth> ie hop-count 11:57:56 <andythenorth> when routing a packet, take any valid route to a lower-weighted node 11:58:06 <fonsinchen> what about parallel routes? 11:58:29 <Alberth> the're both valid, I guess 11:58:48 <andythenorth> both valid 11:59:04 <andythenorth> so one direct train, or a ship that goes halfway round the map (slowly) are both valid 11:59:11 <andythenorth> which is sub-optimal 11:59:13 <andythenorth> but who cares eh? 11:59:15 <andythenorth> :) 11:59:32 <andythenorth> the weightings only need recalculating when the topology changes 11:59:41 <fonsinchen> The who cares question is important. 11:59:56 <fonsinchen> Your algorithm does not take route capacities into account, either. 12:00:03 <andythenorth> no 12:00:07 <andythenorth> oh, I think I decided that the graph was made up of vehicle orders 12:00:10 <fonsinchen> So you could run tons of cargo into a bottleneck. 12:00:13 <andythenorth> yes 12:00:20 <andythenorth> so build more vehicles 12:00:38 <andythenorth> or change the route 12:01:00 <andythenorth> it's sub-optimal 12:01:17 <andythenorth> doesn't try to be optimal :) 12:01:31 <fonsinchen> Well, sometimes you want something like a couple of helicopter connections to an oil rig but you don't want everyone traversing the oilrig to get from town A to town B... 12:01:32 <andythenorth> call it StupidDispatcher 12:02:25 <fonsinchen> I know that Cargodist is fairly complex in contrast with the scheme you're proposing. But it also does more. 12:02:32 <andythenorth> another / complementary option: player defines cargo route (is that how simutrans does it?) 12:03:14 <fonsinchen> Simutrans does routing on an individual packet level. That's part of the reason why it's so slow in contrast do openttd. 12:03:33 <fonsinchen> No, the player does not manually define the routes. 12:03:41 <andythenorth> hmm 12:03:44 <fonsinchen> It's more like YACD. 12:04:11 <fonsinchen> Destinations are predetermined independent of links. 12:05:12 <andythenorth> idea: allow player to manipulate the weighting for a cargo-destination pair at a station :P 12:05:28 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0eb54.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:05:34 <Alberth> haha, a good idea for total disaster :p 12:05:52 <fonsinchen> nasty micromanagement hassle. We have the same problems with timetables. I guess we don't want to repeat that. 12:06:36 <Wolf01> agreed 12:09:54 <andythenorth> yup 12:10:59 <andythenorth> oil rig case is...intriguing 12:11:08 <andythenorth> because it's by no means the common case 12:11:28 <Wolf01> micromanagemente could be good, some people want it, but I think it should be bypassable, at least we can play OTTD also without using timetables :P 12:12:02 <andythenorth> I can't think of a way to handle special cases using generic methods 12:12:05 <fonsinchen> You can also take the example of local bus networks of two towns intersecting at some remote station where once a month a bus arrives. 12:12:32 <andythenorth> so that resolves to link capacity? 12:12:45 <andythenorth> (I think the oil rig case is best ignored, it's the helicopters that matter) 12:13:04 <Wolf01> you should be able to define some stations as hubs and don't let the cargo be transferred in non-hub stations 12:13:09 <drac_boy> Wolf01 I always play 'simple' anyway ... that mean skipping most of the extra features even schedulings too :) 12:13:13 <fonsinchen> Taking link capacity into account avoids sending too much cargo through that station. 12:13:30 <andythenorth> how is link capacity reliably calculated? Empirically? 12:13:37 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:13:41 <fonsinchen> Measured as a moving average. 12:13:47 <fonsinchen> Works fairly OK. 12:13:57 <Wolf01> where "transferred" is not the transfer order but the destination handling 12:14:16 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: I can't think of any other viable method ;) 12:14:30 <fonsinchen> Cargodist does it with moving averages. 12:14:31 <andythenorth> trying to predict link capacity from vehicle speed etc is....meh 12:14:43 <fonsinchen> I can think of a better method though. 12:14:58 <andythenorth> ? 12:15:20 <fonsinchen> https://github.com/fonsinchen/openttd-cargodist/issues/5 12:15:36 <andythenorth> hrm 12:15:45 <andythenorth> do you measure cargo transported, or actual capacity available? 12:15:51 <fonsinchen> both 12:16:05 <andythenorth> and what does auto-refit do to your stats? 12:16:25 <fonsinchen> There is a funny prediction mechanism for that 12:16:51 <fonsinchen> basically, if you do autorefit it does not work so accurately. 12:16:52 <Wolf01> nice, I was looking for how a bus line capacity is calculated and I landed on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_stop#Fake_bus_stops we should really implement this :P 12:22:07 <andythenorth> herp 12:22:12 <andythenorth> my concept is screwed by auto-refit 12:22:27 <andythenorth> there's no way to calculate the cargo-destination pairs using orders 12:23:24 * andythenorth has a totally insane idea 12:23:25 <fonsinchen> Oh, you can get pretty far with orders. Cargodist actually does that when a vehicle does full load or similar. 12:23:41 <andythenorth> 'refit' stations to handle cargos 12:23:53 <andythenorth> station is either on the graph for a cargo, or not 12:24:27 <andythenorth> and vehicles are universal and auto-refit :P 12:24:42 <Terkhen> hello 12:24:44 <andythenorth> so routing is about nodes, and not the links 12:25:58 <fonsinchen> That would piss off quite a few grf authors designing specific vehicles for specific cargo ... 12:26:02 <andythenorth> currently nodes are transparent wrt cargo; the links specify what's transported :) 12:26:11 <andythenorth> fonsinchen it would turn the game on its head :P 12:26:24 <andythenorth> NUTS would be ideal for it though 12:27:01 <fonsinchen> Well, explain it Ammler and see what he says ... 12:27:29 <andythenorth> he 12:27:44 <fonsinchen> I have to leave. Bye 12:27:58 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc7d7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:39:58 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:40:01 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:42:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C9B9.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:43:31 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r24923 trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp (2013-01-20 12:43:25 UTC) 12:43:32 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5441]: When an object built on a river is removed, restore the river, if possible also on slopes (based on patch by Supercheese) 12:43:32 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:51:12 <andythenorth> o_O 12:55:35 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff66e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:57:07 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A1A734.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:57:22 <Wolf01> quak frosch123 12:57:39 <frosch123> moin :) 13:01:32 *** juanjo [4dd32a25@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 13:03:12 <juanjo> hello 13:03:22 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19A81.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:03:36 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 13:11:38 <juanjo> peter1138: is there any way to see how you deal with multidocks? i would like to see how you manage certain details i never could get through. 13:11:59 <peter1138> hmm, which details? 13:14:24 <juanjo> opf was the worse one. oil rigs were also troublesome for my implementation. 13:14:37 <peter1138> i didn't bother for opf 13:14:42 <peter1138> it just targets the first dock built 13:16:29 <juanjo> do ships select an empty dock? 13:16:44 <peter1138> i have not implemented that 13:16:47 <peter1138> they just go to the nearest 13:17:50 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:17:53 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 13:19:03 <juanjo> so when they look for next destination, they choose the dock that is nearest, do they? 13:20:14 <peter1138> nope, they go the area the docks cover and find the docks from there 13:20:24 <peter1138> to be honest it's a bit magical for me :p# 13:20:46 <peter1138> i remember road vehicles used to pick a specific slot and then go to it, but that got changed at some point 13:23:50 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-87-13.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:24:03 <juanjo> so, you don't need to store a pool for docks. nice 13:24:38 <frosch123> rv still pick and reserve a specific stop 13:25:28 <frosch123> the sum of the length of rv having an reservation affects the pathfinder cost, so rv can balance between the stops 13:25:39 <frosch123> though i guess they only reserve when they are somewhat nearby 13:27:14 <juanjo> i'll have to check road vehicles then :-) 13:32:54 <juanjo> bye! 13:37:57 *** juanjo [4dd32a25@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:50:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r24924 trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp (2013-01-20 13:50:10 UTC) 13:50:17 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r24923): Make sure that autoslope on steep coast tiles cannot not leave invalid canals 13:50:37 <Wolf01> cannot not? 13:51:12 <planetmaker> meh :D 13:51:26 <planetmaker> moar tea needed 14:00:38 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 14:00:39 <peter1138> frosch123, afaik they don't reserve 14:00:58 <peter1138> frosch123, if a spot is marked as occupied the pathfinder will prefer a different spot 14:01:09 <andythenorth> diagonal tunnels anyone? :P 14:01:17 <andythenorth> for making tubes :P 14:01:31 <peter1138> the original version of the current version did reserve, but iirc led to some awkward situations 14:01:49 <peter1138> they reserved 16 tiles in advance 14:01:54 <peter1138> which is far for rvs 14:01:56 * FLHerne would love diagonal bridges and tunnels 14:02:09 <frosch123> ah, yeah, maybe it only considers vehicles already stopeed 14:02:46 <FLHerne> Presumably fancier bridgeheads/entrances (at least allowing diagonal track) would be needed for that? 14:03:11 <peter1138> there was an original-original version that was different again but you'd have to go back some revisions to find that 14:04:37 <peter1138> i could make multistop docks occupy slots 14:04:45 <peter1138> but it's rv-centric atm 14:05:05 <peter1138> was thinking of renaming RoadStop to MultiStop, heh 14:05:21 <peter1138> or... VehicleStop? who knows 14:05:51 <peter1138> cos they're off-map it would be possible to reference the fabled state machine in there too :p 14:15:03 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 14:30:03 *** St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:36:04 <andythenorth> I would like to subscribe to your VehicleStop newsletter please 14:36:10 <andythenorth> hrm 14:36:13 <andythenorth> anyone ever played FIRS? 14:39:48 <NGC3982> wat. 14:39:49 <NGC3982> :D 14:42:31 <andythenorth> considering reducing the amount of supplies needed to boost farms 14:43:54 <NGC3982> Not that i know how that works, but i have observed that farm production doesnt increase with farm supplies, like mineral industries increases production with eng.supplies. 14:44:05 <NGC3982> Or is that just something in my head? 14:46:19 *** St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:51:02 *** St3f [~Anonymous@5ED29E55.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:51:56 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24925 /trunk/src (genworld_gui.cpp lang/english.txt) (2013-01-20 14:51:50 UTC) 14:51:57 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5395]: Add a tooltip to the mapsize selection mentioning possible deviations. 14:52:26 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 15:00:22 <andythenorth> in your head 15:01:01 <Pikka> new(road)port(types) 15:02:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24926 trunk/src/stdafx.h (2013-01-20 15:02:28 UTC) 15:02:34 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5373]: Check integer min/max macros individually, and define them if missing. 15:03:38 <NGC3982> andythenorth: So, that notion is false? 15:06:01 <peter1138> andythenorth's losing! 15:08:26 <__ln__> what's going on here: http://goo.gl/maps/lIzma 15:09:13 <__ln__> and here especially: http://goo.gl/maps/rOPHZ 15:11:21 <andythenorth> peter1138: baby minding here :( 15:11:24 <andythenorth> can't play :P 15:12:20 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:14:46 *** Pokka [~Octomom@d58-106-42-20.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 15:15:03 <peter1138> naughty fishing harbour 15:15:12 <peter1138> extends past the tile edge :S 15:15:14 <andythenorth> yes 15:15:17 <andythenorth> I should fix that :P 15:15:20 <andythenorth> flickers 15:16:04 <NGC3982> ..? 15:16:09 <NGC3982> Why did i even try. 15:26:46 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:29:35 <andythenorth> maybe the FIRS boost is a bit volative 15:29:39 <andythenorth> volatile /s 15:30:18 <Alberth> tolavive :) 15:31:23 <andythenorth> benefit of current method: simple 15:31:39 <andythenorth> disadvantage: production collapses easily if a vehicle jam happens 15:32:41 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34:23 <peter1138> bah, renaming roadstops is way too much work :p 15:35:47 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc7d7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:35:49 *** St3f [~Anonymous@5ED29E55.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:36:35 *** St3f [~Anonymous@46.144.14.54] has joined #openttd 15:38:17 <andythenorth> get NGC3982 to do it 15:40:02 <peter1138> plus they're saved with the chunk tag of "ROAD" :p 15:40:42 <andythenorth> it's all hopeless :P 15:40:54 <peter1138> heh 15:41:01 <andythenorth> there's nothing left to do but 15:41:04 <andythenorth> Jump 15:41:22 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:41:44 <andythenorth> can't you see what I mean? 15:41:49 <peter1138> go ahead 15:41:50 <andythenorth> might as well jump 15:41:50 <peter1138> jump 15:41:55 <peter1138> do de do do de 15:41:58 <peter1138> do de do do dum 15:43:41 <andythenorth> nobody answered my FIRS question 15:43:46 <andythenorth> nobody cares :( 15:45:19 <V453000> is there any way how to make one vehicle introduce another? 15:45:34 <V453000> Like, I have wagons which fit to a vehicle, is it possible to unify their introduction date? 15:45:50 <V453000> because if I set the same value the game still randomizes it in the span of 2 years or whatnot 15:47:05 <peter1138> no 15:47:31 <V453000> thought so, thanks 15:58:56 <Pokka> there was some talk at one point of a flag to not randomise the vehicle's intro date 15:59:03 <Pokka> for this purpose 15:59:34 <planetmaker> rather like a flag "introduction same as ID XY" 16:00:33 <andythenorth> intro date pool 16:00:39 <V453000> would make some sense to have that I think, though not massively necessary, in my case I just have wagons arrive 2 years earlier. Does not hurt and when you see the vehicle being introduced in the news you know you can use it, so no harm anywhere 16:04:47 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@74.115.3.61] has joined #openttd 16:11:21 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:17:30 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r24927 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2013-01-20 16:17:24 UTC) 16:17:31 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup [FS#5440]: No need to check a positive value to be larger than 0 16:19:40 *** RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 16:21:24 *** St3f [~Anonymous@46.144.14.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:21:37 *** St3f [~Anonymous@5354D83D.cm-6-5d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:22:47 *** endymion [~8fa7e27b@webuser.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 16:23:08 *** endymion [~8fa7e27b@webuser.thegrebs.com] has quit [] 16:23:11 *** irctc487 [~8fa7e27b@webuser.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 16:23:56 *** irctc487 [~8fa7e27b@webuser.thegrebs.com] has quit [] 16:26:27 *** hyperion [~8fa7e27b@webuser.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 16:26:58 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@74.115.3.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:28:03 *** hyperion [~8fa7e27b@webuser.thegrebs.com] has quit [] 16:28:17 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:35 *** Hyperion [~8fa7e27b@webuser.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 16:28:53 <Hyperion> Good evening 16:29:39 <frosch123> moin 16:31:21 <Hyperion> question from a beginner. How do I know whether I have too many vehicles picking up from a resource? 16:31:43 <Hyperion> I mean, is there an optimal way to do it? 16:32:02 <andythenorth> is there a big queue? 16:32:12 <andythenorth> big queue => too many 16:32:27 <planetmaker> Hyperion, there's too many when the entrance is jammed and vehicles wait on an empty station to pickup cargo 16:34:03 <Hyperion> What if I have 2 trucks in a loading bay, one is creeping up from 50% and the other is waiting at 0% 16:34:20 <andythenorth> sounds ok 16:35:20 <Hyperion> ok, how about the idea of supply/demand - if I have one vehicle making trips and easily filling 100% and always a stockpile at the resource, is this worse than having the situation i just mentioned? 16:35:34 <Hyperion> in terms of the production increasing over time 16:35:45 <andythenorth> get more vehicles in that case 16:35:58 <planetmaker> one vehicle loading, the other already waiting to start loading is best in terms of increasing production on primary industries 16:37:58 <Hyperion> thanks guys. is the spacing between vehicles important, then? 16:38:11 <Hyperion> in terms of where they are on the route relative to eachother 16:38:28 <planetmaker> no. It only matters that you always load cargo 16:38:57 <Hyperion> right. so the resource should always be in the vehicles debt, not the reverse? 16:39:07 <andythenorth> yes 16:39:30 <Hyperion> ok. i was worried about wasting resources by having vehicles waiting at 0%, but that seems ok 16:39:32 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 16:39:54 <Hyperion> i mean, wasting money 16:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have not enough money, you're probably doing something wrong :) 16:40:36 <planetmaker> Hyperion, "ok" is also a very relative thing :-) Depends on your goal. You might make more money, if you do not fulfill the goal to "always load" by a thin margin 16:41:09 <planetmaker> But long-term you get higher output by always fulfilling the condition to load continuously 16:41:19 <planetmaker> so the time horizon matters 16:41:44 <planetmaker> also the amount of micro-management you want to put in: 16:42:09 <planetmaker> like buy 4 vehicles for that station. Initially it will be crowded and unneeded. But it means it takes some time before you have to come back and add more vehicles 16:42:23 <planetmaker> Time which you could better spend on improving your company elsewhere 16:42:37 <peter1138> hmm 16:42:42 <peter1138> is that what i'm meant to be doing? 16:42:45 <planetmaker> As time to build is the limiting factor at a default game after ~10 ingame years worth of playing 16:42:53 <peter1138> i just end up watching trains moving along tracks :p 16:43:00 <planetmaker> haha :-) 16:43:07 <Pokka> choo choo 16:43:20 <Hyperion> will primary resource production move up naturally or does it depend on this situation of "always load" ? 16:43:27 <Pokka> that's why you're losing, peter1138 16:43:43 <planetmaker> Hyperion, it depends on the station rating... 16:44:10 <Hyperion> the % transported stat? 16:44:11 <peter1138> =yeh 16:44:33 <peter1138> Pokka, it's your fault 16:44:46 <Pokka> is it 16:44:53 <michi_cc> peter1138: That's the reason I want a daylength path for. How are you supposed to watch your nice vehicles if there's a new one all the time :p 16:44:55 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics @ Hyperion 16:45:03 <peter1138> exactly! 16:45:06 <peter1138> yadp! 16:45:17 <andythenorth> peter1138: you losing? o_O 16:45:22 <Hyperion> thanks planetmaker 16:45:26 <peter1138> probably 16:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: +1 :p 16:45:31 <Pokka> FLHerne is losing 16:45:39 <peter1138> actually yacd first ;) 16:45:42 <Pokka> peter is second loser 16:45:58 <peter1138> pikka and andy are joint third losers 16:46:07 <andythenorth> bah 16:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "2nd is just the first loser"? 16:46:21 <peter1138> heh 16:46:29 <peter1138> actually andy's got the most money 16:46:34 <andythenorth> I got bored of the silly FIRS production 16:46:37 <peter1138> but pikka's gonna catch him 16:46:38 <andythenorth> silly FIRS 16:46:50 <andythenorth> is my Toob not printing money? 16:46:51 <peter1138> toyland next time! 16:46:56 <Pokka> oh 16:47:01 <Pokka> andy has zellepins 16:47:03 <Pokka> no wonder he's winning 16:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but no opengfx allowed :p 16:47:26 <Pokka> supply zellepins 16:47:27 <peter1138> who uses opengfx anyway? 16:47:30 *** RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:37 <Pokka> no-one 16:48:00 <Pokka> which is why it's odd you leave the track building tools for finescale tracks on openttd graphics ;) 16:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: all the newbies that don't know any better 16:48:05 <Pokka> parameters are a pain 16:48:35 <peter1138> hmm 16:48:38 <peter1138> never noticed 16:48:46 <peter1138> you should label it opengfx not openttd 16:49:07 <peter1138> and make a new release just for that! 16:49:10 <Hyperion> whats wrong with opengfx? 16:49:22 <planetmaker> nothing at all 16:49:27 <andythenorth> my zeps are simply Super! 16:49:35 <Pokka> zuperdooper 16:49:53 <Pokka> they even make a profit 16:51:02 <Pokka> look at this filthy brarnpool to confingford railway 16:51:04 *** me [29f24088@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:51:38 <Pokka> shamefur dispray 16:51:39 <me> anyone online 16:51:53 <planetmaker> @seen anyone 16:51:53 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: anyone was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 2 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 24 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <anyone> hi 16:51:55 <planetmaker> nope 16:52:13 <peter1138> brarnpool? 16:53:06 <peter1138> oh great brarnpool 16:53:07 <peter1138> hmm 16:55:03 <me> ok well i need info what did they use to develop TTD 16:55:35 <Pokka> a fork and a bag of string 16:55:37 <planetmaker> time, patience and many electrons 16:56:27 <me> seriously 16:56:30 <peter1138> a text editor was probably involved 16:56:30 <planetmaker> seriously 16:56:36 <Pokka> the money and experience from porting Frontier: Elite II to the PC? 16:57:05 <me> do you guy know how games are made 16:57:56 <Alberth> by designing them, and for computer games, followed by implementing them in a computer language 16:58:44 <planetmaker> me, you really want to consider your questions... a question like "how do you write a computer game" simply can't be answered... 16:58:46 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc7d7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:58:56 <Alberth> me: You may want to read http://content.gpwiki.org/index.php/Main_Page a bit 16:59:08 <planetmaker> ... except by more or less lengthy articles 16:59:21 <Alberth> s/or less // :) 16:59:31 <planetmaker> :-) 17:00:13 <planetmaker> http://www.gpwiki.org/iotd/ nice, Alberth :-) 17:00:32 <Alberth> yeah, isn't it? :D 17:01:19 <me> Alberth nope first get a 3d modeler and the start programming in C++ make a game engine and more. im not DUm i am a game designer myself i thourt you may kome what TTd was made with becuse it's the same UI and land as roller coaster tycoon 2 17:01:26 <Alberth> planetmaker: http://youtu.be/jPNVrK7zxd8 for some moving pictures :) 17:01:35 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 17:02:02 <peter1138> 3d modeler eh 17:02:06 <planetmaker> hahaha :-) 17:02:10 <Alberth> me: right, that's a far more specific question 17:02:20 <Pokka> getting a 3d modeler is definitely the first stage in making a game... 17:02:34 <Alberth> me: 3d modelers didn't exist at the time TTD was created 17:02:38 <planetmaker> yes. a game. But we're playing THE game here ;-) 17:02:43 <peter1138> Alberth, bet they did :p 17:02:47 <andythenorth> isn't there a wiki page about how OpenTTD was reverse engineered? 17:02:53 <andythenorth> maybe even a wikipedia page 17:02:59 <peter1138> andythenorth, not even the question 17:03:08 <andythenorth> I am taking him at face value :P 17:03:13 <andythenorth> oh no 17:03:15 <andythenorth> I see the point 17:03:20 <peter1138> ttd and rct were hand written assembly 17:03:25 <Alberth> me: Roller Coaster 2 is the TTD engine, 2 generations later 17:04:05 <peter1138> it was made ... by coding assembly instructions o_O 17:04:11 <me> andythenorth thats what im looking for. Alberth i got that one any idea of what it's called 17:04:27 <peter1138> it's called ttd 17:05:20 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Tycoon 17:05:32 <andythenorth> has background, not much detail 17:05:47 <Ammler> oh, rct has map rotation :-o 17:05:51 <andythenorth> Pikka: you haz a plane? 17:05:52 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:05:59 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc7d7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:06:08 <planetmaker> yes, seems like Ammler :-) 17:06:08 <Pokka> two 17:06:39 <Alberth> Ammler: yep, new engine feature in RCT (and quite needed imho) 17:06:59 <peter1138> heh 17:07:06 <peter1138> anyone tried map rotation in ottd? 17:07:15 <peter1138> obviously ignoring the sprite issues 17:07:19 <planetmaker> with sprites all new, you can do that. As long as people here are like "TTD" it won't happen 17:07:35 <Ammler> planetmaker: you don't need that many new sprites, do you? 17:07:42 <peter1138> Ammler, loads 17:07:58 <Pokka> if not more 17:07:59 <planetmaker> depends. Not that many. Of the order of 1k ... 2k 17:08:18 <planetmaker> no new road/rail/bridge/landscape/vehicle sprites needed 17:08:19 <Ammler> many things you can rotate already 17:08:22 <planetmaker> only houses + industries 17:08:30 <Ammler> only non square houses 17:08:42 <planetmaker> well. All houses. Would look funky otherwise 17:08:46 <Ammler> many industries are also made with square support 17:09:03 <Ammler> you don't need to rotate a square house 17:09:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:09:09 <frosch123> planetmaker: depends whether you ignore light direction for landscape :p 17:09:09 <planetmaker> But most of base sets are landscape, vehicles + gui 17:09:21 <planetmaker> :-) yes, I do, frosch123 17:09:37 <Alberth> throw in some zbase render time? :p 17:09:58 <peter1138> no comment 17:10:20 <peter1138> planetmaker, anyway, i said ignoring the sprites 17:10:31 <Alberth> not sure whether it actually works, maybe Z didn't completely model all sides 17:10:33 <peter1138> planetmaker, i.e. actually done code changes to rotate it all 17:10:34 <planetmaker> that's a pointless pre-condition peter1138 17:11:03 <Ammler> but not reason not to try 17:11:26 <Ammler> a* 17:11:47 <me> i see but also if you look at simcity 2000 and te sims 1 and simcity 3000 te terrain was te same 17:12:16 <peter1138> no it's not 17:13:01 *** me [29f24088@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 17:23:14 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24928 trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqcompiler.cpp (2013-01-20 17:23:08 UTC) 17:23:15 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5408]: [Squirrel] Update line information before processing 'while' token of 'do'-'while' statement. 17:26:08 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 17:30:35 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc7d7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:34:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:99b6:9e46:8293:d479] has joined #openttd 17:41:28 *** Pokka [~Octomom@d58-106-42-20.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:43:21 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:51:41 <andythenorth> hmm 17:51:47 * andythenorth is boondoggled 17:51:51 <andythenorth> by FIRS supplies still 17:52:43 <andythenorth> production is 1x, 2x (boost), 4x (extra boost) 17:52:48 <andythenorth> at primaries 17:53:01 <andythenorth> this leads to wild fluctuations in available cargo 17:53:15 <andythenorth> which is useful in a cargo-goal challenge 17:53:19 <andythenorth> but not otherwise 17:53:24 <planetmaker> depends on the integration time really 17:53:41 <andythenorth> if you want a nice steady game, the 2x then 4x boost is a PITA 17:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: mimic the behaviour of smooth economy :) 17:54:08 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 17:54:11 <andythenorth> it's very hard to tune 17:54:23 <andythenorth> the needs of a collaborative MP game with 7 year cargo goal 17:54:26 <andythenorth> are very different 17:54:28 <planetmaker> like 10% increases and 10% decreases 17:54:31 <andythenorth> to playing SP for 100 years 17:55:11 <planetmaker> so not 3 levels but... 10. With like every level requiring 3 supplies more or so 17:55:15 <andythenorth> the easy way is a parameter 17:55:24 <andythenorth> but that's Yet Another Fricking Parameter To Forget 17:55:28 <andythenorth> when setting up an MP game 17:55:50 <planetmaker> not as parameter. As change to existing 17:56:11 <planetmaker> i.e. make levels not *2 but +10 or so 17:56:19 <planetmaker> in production 17:56:37 <planetmaker> and needed supplies not *2 but +5. Or whatever 17:56:49 <andythenorth> biab 17:56:52 <andythenorth> bath time ;) 17:56:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:99b6:9e46:8293:d479] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:56:56 <planetmaker> :-) 18:01:53 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc7d7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:07:26 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:11:44 *** St3f [~Anonymous@5354D83D.cm-6-5d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:16:53 <peter1138> hmm 18:23:34 <oskari89> Oh why there's no sorting of different types of locomotives and other rolling stock stuff in the rail vehicle replacement window? 18:24:09 <oskari89> I would like to arrange them by speed but can't 18:24:23 <oskari89> Those seem to be arranged by vehicle ID's 18:24:50 <planetmaker> unless the sorting is re-arranged by the NewGRF(s) :-) 18:24:52 <peter1138> write a patch :p 18:25:05 <peter1138> planetmaker, internal detail ;) 18:25:31 <frosch123> i am quite sure that item is on the todo list :p 18:25:56 <Wolf01> I must go, bye 18:25:58 <peter1138> i think i saw it too 18:26:02 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 18:26:05 <planetmaker> bye, wolf... 18:29:06 <Eddi|zuHause> oskari89: it shouldn't be too hard to copy the behaviour of the purchase window 18:29:37 <frosch123> "it shouldn't be too hard"... can we ban this sentence? 18:30:24 <Alberth> ask the bot that kicks !commands :p 18:31:27 <peter1138> "i'm not a programmer but this shouldn't be too hard" 18:32:42 <frosch123> yeah, just rotate the sprite 18:32:53 <frosch123> every graphics program can rotate sprites in 90° steps 18:33:08 <peter1138> :D 18:34:14 <Zuu> Can't we just rotate the view 90 degreen as most graphics cards have a setting (to use when showing on a vertical monitor) 18:34:58 <Zuu> Then we can put a check for "can rotate the view" and everyone will be happy that we have "rotatable view" in the feature list? 18:41:21 *** pugi_ [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-001-176.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 18:43:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24929 trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp (2013-01-20 18:43:49 UTC) 18:43:56 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5415]: Don't try to pause or unpause crashed scripts. 18:45:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24930 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2013-01-20 18:45:34 UTC) 18:45:46 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:47 <DorpsGek> english_US - 1 changes by Rubidium 18:45:48 <DorpsGek> french - 2 changes by glx 18:45:49 <DorpsGek> german - 3 changes by planetmaker 18:45:50 <DorpsGek> irish - 11 changes by ioo5 18:45:51 <DorpsGek> brazilian_portuguese - 110 changes by Tucalipe 18:45:52 <DorpsGek> spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen 18:47:00 <frosch123> he, translators managed to get below 30k missing strings! 18:47:15 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-189-134.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:47:16 *** pugi_ is now known as pugi 18:48:40 <planetmaker> nice. The call for translators really seems to work. We're still getting a somewhat steady stream of people who apply as new translators 18:49:00 <oskari89> :) 18:49:33 <frosch123> i remember somewhat like a year ago, when i asked whether translators would first reach 25k or ottd would first reach r25k... but rb laughed me off like we would never reach r25 so fast :p 18:49:34 <oskari89> Someone could update that on the front page, which are already done, remove them completely from list 18:50:38 <planetmaker> well... I don't see hitting < 25k strings (if that was the direction the statement was intended) 18:51:17 <frosch123> yes, it was. translators slowed down just like the commits 18:51:50 *** pjpe [ae5f38bd@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:52:03 <planetmaker> oskari89, the front page is up to date 18:52:49 *** pjpe [ae5f38bd@ircip2.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 18:56:56 <planetmaker> but we got in the last 7 days new translators for Urdu, Esperanto, Turkish, Irish, Hebrew, Simplified Chinese... half of those languages need a translator urgently 18:57:19 *** Hyperion [~8fa7e27b@webuser.thegrebs.com] has quit [Quit: TheGrebs.com CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 18:58:27 <frosch123> well, if ottd would be as popular in asia as in europe, it would be no issue at all to find an urdu translator :p 18:58:50 <planetmaker> :-) 18:59:13 <planetmaker> I should bully my Pakistan collegue to translate ;-) 19:00:19 *** joey8 [~JoeEvans@host81-155-58-150.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:00:49 <joey8> can anyone tell me why when i buy a plane with a high percentage reliability crashes within one flight 19:01:35 <planetmaker> crashes are not related to reliability. But happen any case with low chance. Or high chance, if the aircraft is large and the airport small 19:01:36 <Zuu> reliability have nothing to do with the chance of crashes 19:01:48 <planetmaker> All on the condition that aircraft crashes are not switched off in the adv. settings 19:02:30 <joey8> planetmaker†Oh ok thanx mate 19:02:32 <Zuu> reliability only affect the chance of the aircraft to "break down" in the air. A broken down aircraft will emit smoke and fly slower than usual but not crash. 19:03:03 <joey8> Zuu†oh ok thank you 19:03:13 <joey8> i am very unlucky - they keep crashing 19:03:27 <planetmaker> large planes on small airport... :-) 19:03:54 <joey8> planetmaker†ok thanx i will build a bigger airport 19:04:08 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Plane 19:04:16 <joey8> ã 19:04:16 <Zuu> Isn't the chance 1 in 5 or something like that for large planes or small airport. (with original chances) 19:04:16 <planetmaker> lists small and big planes 19:04:23 <planetmaker> yes, I think so, Zuu 19:05:14 <Zuu> The other probability with a large enough airport for the plane is something like 1 in 30. IIRC 19:05:44 <planetmaker> hm... the UI doesn't tell whether an aircraft is large or small? 19:06:06 <Zuu> No, only with certain plane sets 19:06:16 <planetmaker> bad :-) 19:06:26 <Zuu> Eg. av8 have some GUI element that show this. 19:06:39 *** Endymion [~8fa7e27b@webuser.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 19:06:54 <planetmaker> yes. as newgrf extra string. Thus you have to go a cetrain way as author to supply it. 19:06:54 <Zuu> For default aircraft, you will need to set a custom company colour for small or large aircraft to see which ones that are large/small in the buy menu. 19:07:33 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:07:55 <Zuu> Or you are an AI, and use the available API method. :-) 19:08:05 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:17 <planetmaker> :D 19:11:15 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:11:31 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:17:08 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:17:17 *** Endymion [~8fa7e27b@webuser.thegrebs.com] has quit [Quit: TheGrebs.com CGI:IRC] 19:25:36 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:00 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:30:52 <Rubidium> frosch123: so quickly dump something big into trunk so we are getting way about 30k again? 19:31:06 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 19:33:43 <peter1138> newmaparray! 19:34:41 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:35:57 <frosch123> new(maparray) or (newmap)array? 19:36:35 <Supercheese> Yes. 19:36:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:39:35 <andythenorth> Pikka: game on? 19:39:45 <andythenorth> 1937 already :o 19:40:28 <andythenorth> peter1138: FLHerne ^^ 19:40:32 <peter1138> wur 19:40:41 <FLHerne> Ploing! 19:41:23 <FLHerne> Is there a question? 19:41:55 <andythenorth> herm 19:41:59 <andythenorth> conditional orders 19:42:03 <andythenorth> do people actually do that ? 19:42:15 <planetmaker> sure 19:42:45 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Muchly. Handy with autorefit 19:43:05 <FLHerne> Not yet in this game though 19:49:48 <peter1138> no, it's not used 19:59:41 <planetmaker> you should like open your own server channel... 20:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. because we very much hate it when people talk about playing the game in here 20:14:25 *** St3f [~Anonymous@46.144.14.54] has joined #openttd 20:16:53 <Rubidium> yeah, we should talk about colobot again ;) 20:22:29 *** St3f [~Anonymous@46.144.14.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:23:00 *** St3f [~Anonymous@46.144.14.54] has joined #openttd 20:26:51 <peter1138> hmm 20:30:25 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 20:35:05 *** joey8 [~JoeEvans@host81-155-58-150.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:45:16 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:03:44 *** St3f [~Anonymous@46.144.14.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:14:48 *** joey8 [~JoeEvans@host81-155-58-150.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:15:42 *** St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:21:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6B597.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:28:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C9B9.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:33:46 *** joey8 [~JoeEvans@host81-155-58-150.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:43:30 *** jamin [~chatzilla@host-2-96-95-158.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 21:50:23 <andythenorth> peter1138: end of game? 21:50:23 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff66e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:30 <peter1138> for now for me 21:50:33 <peter1138> carry on if you wish 21:50:34 <andythenorth> +1 21:50:36 <andythenorth> bed 21:50:45 <andythenorth> worky worky tomorrow 21:52:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:55:33 *** jamin [~chatzilla@host-2-96-95-158.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.1/20130116073211]] 22:05:06 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:08:04 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:12:20 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:19:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A734.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:29 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:42:56 *** pjpe [ae5f38bd@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:43:07 *** pjpe [ae5f38bd@ircip2.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 22:43:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6B597.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:06 <__ln__> why isn't there a translation in occitan? 22:48:02 <Supercheese> arctan only goes from -Ï/2 to Ï/2... oh wait- 22:48:06 <Supercheese> :P 22:49:05 <__ln__> no, no, other kind of tan 23:03:52 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 23:04:34 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc7d7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:35 *** Maedhros_ [~maedhros@146.90.135.180] has joined #openttd 23:13:09 *** Maedhros [~maedhros@72.42.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:40:30 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:49:16 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:50:09 <Terkhen> good night 23:54:10 <planetmaker> night 23:56:25 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:58:13 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:40 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-5d857922.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:58:43 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd