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00:02:29 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:04:02 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:10:38 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 00:11:55 *** goodger [~ben@host81-154-150-255.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: goodger] 00:23:36 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:23:43 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:37:57 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:48:24 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 00:56:31 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@84.40.82.221] has joined #openttd 01:15:22 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@84.40.82.221] has quit [Quit: Tvel] 01:35:38 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-1.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 01:39:21 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:49:35 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:50:44 *** evsr8 [~evsr8@142.166.133.254] has joined #openttd 01:51:52 <evsr8> what grfs are running on server 2 right now? 01:53:50 *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest121 01:53:57 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:54:00 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 01:54:17 *** Guest121 [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.180.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:21:11 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@75.114.201.249] has joined #openttd 02:22:59 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:24:17 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@vpnx222.nemendur.hi.is] has joined #openttd 02:26:33 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-1.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 02:28:50 *** avdg [~avdg@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:29:11 *** avdg [~avdg@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 02:31:07 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-032-202.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 02:32:23 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@vpnx222.nemendur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:33:47 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 02:39:52 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:46:39 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:55 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 02:50:09 *** evsr8 [~evsr8@142.166.133.254] has quit [] 03:11:12 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 03:17:30 *** Biolunar__ [~mahdi@blfd-4d083dc3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 03:24:40 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-4db0e7ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:02:52 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 04:03:25 <Bad_Brett> hello 04:03:41 <Supercheese> Greetings 04:05:00 <Bad_Brett> what's up? 04:05:45 <Supercheese> Playing OTTD in 1882 atm 04:05:55 <Supercheese> wondering if I should add some patches to the build I'm using... 04:06:21 <Bad_Brett> decisions, decisions... 04:07:04 <Supercheese> Also being lazy and not working on my grfs 04:07:08 <Supercheese> although I should, sometime 04:07:43 <Bad_Brett> yeah you should 04:08:32 <Bad_Brett> want a sneak peek of my latest ...industry? :) 04:10:27 <Supercheese> Industry eh 04:11:03 <Bad_Brett> http://www.badbrett.se/goldrush/whale2.gif 04:11:05 <Bad_Brett> :D 04:12:26 <Supercheese> Neato, reminds my of Civ3/4 04:12:29 <Supercheese> Whale resources 04:12:34 <Supercheese> reminds me* 04:13:20 <Bad_Brett> yes! 04:16:19 <Bad_Brett> it will be one of the early sources for oil production... before oil wells were used 04:18:23 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@75.114.201.249] has quit [Quit: -] 04:19:28 <Supercheese> :) 04:28:21 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:06 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 05:46:12 *** user54367644 [~user@120.136.104.33] has joined #openttd 05:52:11 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p57BD4FA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p57BD5D95.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:59:36 *** user54367644 [~user@120.136.104.33] has quit [Quit: user54367644] 06:05:03 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:05:06 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 06:05:26 *** user54367644 [~user@120.136.104.33] has joined #openttd 06:10:14 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-102-146.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:22:44 *** user54367644 [~user@120.136.104.33] has quit [Quit: user54367644] 06:24:57 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:25:38 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 06:26:00 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has joined #openttd 06:45:04 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 06:50:22 *** mkv` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:59:02 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 07:17:40 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-100-87.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 07:21:01 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:23:46 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:29:48 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:30:00 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:36:28 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:40:58 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@84.40.82.221] has joined #openttd 07:49:06 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:49:32 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 07:51:15 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:52:51 <peter1138> hmm 07:53:00 <peter1138> should i go "value + bool" or "value + (bool ? 1 : 0)" ? 08:01:44 <planetmaker> moin 08:01:56 <planetmaker> peter1138: the latter. Some compilers will otherwise complain 08:02:06 <peter1138> thought so 08:02:40 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 08:05:43 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@84.40.82.221] has quit [Quit: Tvel] 08:07:35 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-189-017.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:11:10 * peter1138 wonders what "looks" better about restrictions on signals 08:17:12 *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:22:39 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:24:58 <peter1138> But this is interesting, if I don't remove goal from bankrupted company, the nem company receive this goal. I think the new company receive the old company's ID. 08:25:01 <peter1138> hmm 08:25:04 <peter1138> sounds like a bug 08:25:16 *** kamnet [4a83bb80@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:25:35 <kamnet> Morning. Anyone around? 08:25:37 <peter1138> company gets goal, company goes bankrupt, new company keeps the rule 08:25:40 <peter1138> nobody 08:26:07 <kamnet> Ah, good to know! 08:26:37 <kamnet> Insomnia is great! 08:26:41 <kamnet> How are you this morning? 08:26:48 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 08:28:39 <Eddi|zuHause> asleep 08:29:54 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:30:01 <Supercheese> peter1138: that bug's been reporte 08:30:04 <Supercheese> reported* 08:30:29 <peter1138> where? 08:30:40 <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=64216 08:30:50 <Supercheese> oh hmm 08:30:52 <Supercheese> you were quotin that 08:31:02 <Supercheese> new post I hadn't read 08:31:19 <Supercheese> Deeeeeeesregard 08:32:01 <peter1138> report == on bug tracker 08:32:39 <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=168213 08:32:40 <Supercheese> @__@ 08:33:45 <peter1138> waste of time 08:33:54 <Supercheese> Blaaah, I hate having to close and reopen OTTD when I update my grf 08:34:39 <peter1138> use a better os then :p 08:35:04 <Supercheese> Pretty sure the non-OTTD games I play only support Windows 08:35:22 <kamnet> There's a version of OpenTTD for OS/2 Warp?? 08:35:23 <peter1138> non-OTTD games? what is this 08:35:38 <peter1138> kamnet, there was 08:35:59 <Supercheese> I've got World of Warplanes idling in the background 08:37:37 <kamnet> Well it took a few hours, but I've got all my OpenTTD builds and all my NewGRFs moved over to Skydrive. :D 08:43:10 <kamnet> Now I just need ChillCore's Patch Pack to behave along with everything else :D 08:43:42 <peter1138> dropbox woo 08:44:01 <Supercheese> Oh man ChillPP 08:44:10 <Supercheese> people still use it? 08:44:27 <peter1138> or better, sparkleshare 08:44:30 <kamnet> I've got a game that I've been playing since November 2010 on it. 08:44:38 <Supercheese> Ah, savegame compatibility 08:44:40 <Supercheese> that makes sense 08:45:14 <__ln__> kamnet: Yes, there is/was a version for OS/2 Warp. 08:45:17 <kamnet> If it wasn't for the fact that I've got such a great game going, I'd probably give it up. But considering all the hours of work I've put into it, and I've only maybe used 15% of the map... 08:46:18 <Supercheese> one of those huge maps, eh? 08:46:37 <kamnet> That said, give me a PP that has CargoDest, More Height Levels, and a daylength patch along with something 1.2.x or higher, I'd give it up. 08:47:50 <kamnet> Not terribly huge, just 2048x2048. It spawned just right that I got really nice groupings of feeder services that can be networked into larger cities, and they're close enough that I can make really nice looking station layouts. 08:48:39 <kamnet> I haven't even really focused on passenger services, I've got enough work on my hands with FIRS & CD just getting all the industry chains serviced. 08:49:38 <kamnet> __ln__: It shouldn't surprise me that there was a Warp version. I always wanted to try Warp. 08:55:29 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-12-222.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:55:38 <Pikka> stop that 08:56:23 <peter1138> pikka 08:56:24 <peter1138> pikka 08:56:24 <kamnet> I must have missed that, otherwise I would have stopped that. What did that do? 08:56:34 <Pikka> peeterpeeter 08:56:38 <peter1138> want to draw 63 extra sprites per rail type? 08:56:47 <Pikka> why not? 08:57:07 <Pikka> actually not really 08:57:34 <peter1138> for le junctions 08:57:45 <Pikka> le true 08:57:51 <Pikka> actually, while you're there 08:58:50 <Pikka> it would be nice to be able to toggle autoreplace between replace now and "when old" without having to stop autoreplacing in between :) 08:59:40 <Eddi|zuHause> see, i'm not the only one making "completely different feature" suggestions :p 09:00:52 <Supercheese> kamnet: 2048x2048 maps are huge :P 09:01:15 <Supercheese> do they even go higher? 09:01:57 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, 2 wrongs make a right, of course! 09:02:02 <peter1138> Pikka, i never knew that dropdown was there 09:02:39 <peter1138> also it should auto-select the currently replacing vehicle 09:02:44 <kamnet> Supercheese: in CPP they can go up to 8192x8192. 09:02:50 <Supercheese> O__O 09:03:07 <Supercheese> Gigabyte savegames 09:03:10 <kamnet> and height levels up to 256 09:03:11 <peter1138> doesn't the large maps patch go up to 1 million or something hideous? 09:03:20 <Pikka> it should 09:03:54 <kamnet> I tried to create an 8k*8k map once. I gave up on the generation after 20 minutes. :D 09:04:59 <Supercheese> Haha, I made a Wright Flyer for my grf, and it's taxi speed is faster than its flight speed 09:05:14 <Supercheese> its* 09:05:15 <Supercheese> blarg 09:05:19 <peter1138> hehe 09:05:28 * Supercheese hates it's/its 09:05:57 <Supercheese> "Apostrophes are always for possessives", they said... 09:06:39 <peter1138> except on it 09:06:54 <Supercheese> Well, or contractions, I suppose 09:07:36 <peter1138> no 09:07:39 <peter1138> GRFs 09:09:08 <peter1138> Pikka, of course, someone would complain that it makes mass-updating harder 09:09:33 <Pikka> would they? 09:09:39 <SpComb> itsitis 09:09:40 <peter1138> someone would 09:09:47 <Pikka> my problem is that if you currently have "when old" selected, and then decide you want to replace /now/ 09:09:58 <Pikka> you can't just click the dropdown and select "replace now", it doesn't work 09:09:59 <peter1138> yes i know 09:10:11 <Pikka> which seems like a bug to me :) 09:10:23 <peter1138> and if you did change it it would use the currently selected vehicle on the right 09:11:45 <Pikka> yes 09:13:04 <Pikka> I only just discovered that you can click on a bridge with the bridge tool to upgrade it :) 09:13:17 <Supercheese> Yep :D 09:13:48 <peter1138> :) 09:15:10 <planetmaker> :-) 09:15:19 <planetmaker> oooooold feature (I think :-P) 09:16:10 <planetmaker> Sometimes I wonder how many of OpenTTD's features are actually used by the average player... if even "we" fail to use them due to ignorance 09:17:32 <peter1138> does autoreplacing articulated trams work as expected? 09:18:06 * planetmaker doesn't remember oddities with HEQS... but not sure this statement is worth much :-) 09:18:06 <Supercheese> I dunno 09:18:20 <Pikka> I think so, I don't use them much though 09:18:28 <peter1138> me nither 09:18:31 <peter1138> +e 09:18:35 <peter1138> but that andy fellow 09:19:03 <planetmaker> him! 09:19:19 <Pinkbeast> I seem to recall some oddities with the refit-to-size HEQS trams but some time ago. 09:19:31 <planetmaker> they probably have smoke on the wrong place ;-) 09:19:39 <Supercheese> I think andy unified the cargo subtypes to help avert that 09:19:52 <Supercheese> Short/Medium/Long 09:20:18 <Supercheese> rather than X cars/Y cars/Z cars, which could be different for different vehicles 09:26:00 <planetmaker> HEQS has only 3 lengths for trams iirc. uniform for all cargos 09:26:16 <planetmaker> so that might have been the solution, yes 09:26:25 <Supercheese> Yes, but IIRC it wasn't always unified 09:26:40 <planetmaker> likely 09:26:50 <Supercheese> *version 1.4.1* Unified all cargo subtypes for trams ('short', 'medium', 'long') - helps auto-replace do a better job. 09:27:12 <planetmaker> :-) 09:27:55 *** FireFly [~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:28:21 <planetmaker> it ain't broke, so don't fix it :D. Rather "fix" road types ;-) 09:28:32 <planetmaker> the ominous andy might rejoice then ;-) 09:28:38 <Pikka> mmm road types 09:29:01 <Pikka> newgrf(air)ports too please ;) 09:29:09 <Supercheese> I have a feeling road types won't be implemented for fear of people abusing them for subways 09:29:09 <planetmaker> and newports. and bridges 09:29:11 <Supercheese> :P 09:29:14 <peter1138> neweverything 09:29:19 <planetmaker> newOpenTTD? 09:29:24 <Pinkbeast> s/abusing/using/; 09:29:35 <planetmaker> Supercheese, that's not really an argument against 09:29:40 *** FireFly [~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #openttd 09:29:40 <MNIM> what fun is a feature if you can't even abuse it? 09:29:46 <Supercheese> ^ 09:29:54 <peter1138> nobody can agree on road types because people want 1 or 2 or 3 types per tile 09:30:11 <planetmaker> :-) It simply needs an executive decision ;-) 09:30:11 <Pikka> no 09:30:27 <Pikka> silly people can't agree on road types because silly people want 2 or 3 types per tile 09:30:51 <MNIM> planetmaker: sometimes it would do openttd good to have a dictator in charge, eh? 09:30:55 <planetmaker> And... wasn't it agreed that it needs a road and a tram type? And maybe a catenary type? :D 09:30:56 <peter1138> we already have 2 which makes ownership awkward 09:31:07 <Pikka> no it wasn't, planetmaker 09:31:24 <planetmaker> tehehehe :-) 09:31:37 <peter1138> some people still think rail catenary should be separate to railtype 09:31:39 <peter1138> or something 09:31:52 <peter1138> 16 types, enough for everyone 09:32:10 <Pinkbeast> Well, I don't care how it's implemented but there is IMHO a serious need for more railtypes. 09:32:15 <peter1138> more railtype? 09:32:17 <peter1138> MORE? 09:32:26 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:32:28 <Supercheese> â types 09:32:34 <Pinkbeast> Er... yes? 09:32:40 <peter1138> o_O 09:32:49 <Pikka> we should have two owners per rail tile 09:32:57 <peter1138> no 09:32:58 <Pikka> so I can put my diagonal rail right next to yours 09:33:04 <Supercheese> isn't that already possible? 09:33:05 <peter1138> awkward 09:33:08 <peter1138> no 09:33:15 * Supercheese doesn't play multiplayer 09:33:20 <Supercheese> I wouldn't know :S 09:33:21 <Pinkbeast> Or so I can upgrade my pax line to maglev without comedy ensuing where it runs next to the freight line? 09:33:35 <Pikka> yes 09:34:25 <planetmaker> peter1138, having catenary as a flag instead of a railtype intrinsic property would save half of existing railtypes 09:34:44 <peter1138> planetmaker, not really 09:34:52 <Pinkbeast> planet: Perhaps I'm missing something, but haven't you just moved a bit from one place to another? 09:34:55 <planetmaker> do you look at the existing railtypes? 09:35:07 <peter1138> planetmaker, you might as well just add the extra bit you use to signify "catenary" and have 32 railtypes 09:35:08 <Pikka> also I want five different types of catenary :D 09:35:10 <planetmaker> there's RAIL, ELRL --> two 09:35:28 <peter1138> MONO -> ELMN? 09:35:32 <planetmaker> peter1138, eh? 09:35:38 <peter1138> i'm saying it's waste 09:35:56 <peter1138> you'd need a bit on the map to say whether it had catenary, right? 09:36:06 <planetmaker> peter1138, yes. But that's how it's done / used: every railtype as non + electrified version. basically 09:36:13 <peter1138> but it's not 09:36:21 <peter1138> nobody does electrified maglev or electrified monorail 09:36:37 <planetmaker> I don't argue that it's sensible for *every*. But the exageration is the clarification. You're red-herring it 09:36:40 <Pinkbeast> But in eg a NuTracks world almost all railtypes come as X or X+catenary. 09:36:42 <peter1138> no 09:37:00 <peter1138> you're saying "add a special bit so we don't have to duplicate railtypes" 09:37:17 <peter1138> but only RAIL is duplicated to ELRL 09:37:25 <planetmaker> narrow gauge + el. narrow gauge. grade A + el. grade A, same for grade B,C,D and high-speed 09:37:27 <peter1138> (yes, ignoring custom railtypes) 09:37:50 <planetmaker> ... 09:37:51 <Pinkbeast> But it's custom railtypes that provide any motivation to change anything! 09:37:59 <peter1138> seriously 09:38:04 <planetmaker> if you want to ignore custom railtypes you don't need railtypes. Or road types 09:38:08 <planetmaker> seriously 09:38:14 <peter1138> it's better to have 32 rail types with duplicates than 16 rail types which some options you can't use 09:38:48 <peter1138> you'd get an extra 2 rail types to use! 09:39:08 <peter1138> and that's assuming all combos (except monorail/maglev) can be electrified 09:39:25 <peter1138> therefore, no. adding a separating catenary bit is stupid 09:39:37 <peter1138> *separate 09:40:04 <peter1138> also you fuck up rail type labels 09:40:10 <peter1138> ELRL becomes what? 09:40:15 <peter1138> RAIL with catenary bit 09:40:33 <peter1138> that changes how testing compatibility/powered works 09:41:10 <peter1138> what about pikka's engines that are powered on both 3rd rail and catenary rail? 09:41:27 <peter1138> it doesn't need catenary, but it also can't run on just RAIL 09:41:50 <Pinkbeast> It seems to me that it's best to keep all the railtype bits in one place and let railtype authors decide how to use them - but if the paltry allocation of 16 is increased, provide some support for railtypes that work as a set of basically independent bits. 09:41:58 <peter1138> Pinkbeast, exactly! 09:42:27 <peter1138> sort of 09:42:54 <peter1138> i mean, if you're going to waste a bit in the map array for "has catenary", imho it's better to "waste it" on doubling the railtype limit 09:43:10 <planetmaker> yes. But while it's not been possibly the best design decision with railtypes, it might be good for road types to choose the better design and make "catenary" a road type property ;-) And no: not on map array. In track properties 09:43:13 <peter1138> then you get 32 railtypes instead of 16 with some with catenary 09:43:52 <Pinkbeast> s/waste/use/ but I agree completely. 32 would at least be a step in the right direction. 09:44:18 <peter1138> Pinkbeast, rail types are stored directly on the map array, that's why they're limited 09:44:30 <peter1138> sure you could "just add a byte" and have 256 rail types 09:44:32 <Pinkbeast> (In particular, it doesn't work in MP, but in SP I can imagine a kludge where you have a much wider range of potential railtypes but only 16/32 in use at once). 09:44:35 <Pinkbeast> peter: I know. 09:44:51 <peter1138> why not in MP? 09:45:18 <planetmaker> Pinkbeast, either it works in MP or it won't happen 09:45:22 <Pinkbeast> Because the 16 railtypes in use would have to be shared between the companies and... 09:45:22 <peter1138> we never add a feature that only works in SP 09:45:24 <peter1138> except cheats :p 09:45:52 <peter1138> no, you could have 9001 railtypes 09:45:52 <planetmaker> you basically can't say a savegame is MP or SP. It breaks so many things and assumptions I don't want to even start 09:45:58 <peter1138> but only 16 allowed per company 09:46:03 <peter1138> just don't merge companies 09:46:09 <planetmaker> :-) 09:46:19 <planetmaker> Now, that's an interesting concept, peter1138 :-) 09:46:25 <Pinkbeast> peter: bravo, it can work in MP! 09:46:40 * MNIM thwacks peter1138 on the head 09:46:48 <MNIM> this isn't dragonball Z. 09:46:49 <planetmaker> :-( 09:46:54 <MNIM> this is spa-*SHOT* 09:46:54 <peter1138> :-) 09:47:00 <peter1138> also, there's no free bits for stations 09:47:04 <planetmaker> @calc 16*16 09:47:05 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 256 09:47:15 <Pikka> orly 09:47:17 <peter1138> well, that's bit 7 of m1 09:47:43 <peter1138> actually bit 7 of m1 is available rail/road station and tunnel/bridge tiles 09:47:53 <Pinkbeast> When you take over a company they eat as many of your railtype slots as they can and remaining track gets downgraded to something you are using. 09:47:55 <peter1138> add that bit and you get 32 railtypes 09:48:24 <peter1138> anyway, the concept of just 1 road type per tile is interesting 09:48:49 <peter1138> there's no reason it couldn't accomodate 2 sets of roadbits and 2 owners 09:49:13 <Pinkbeast> Let me guess, iterating over the entire map array is also discouraged? 09:49:19 <planetmaker> peter1138, ... :-( But how do I then add or remove trams? Or allow a 2nd person to build trams on my road? 09:49:27 <Pikka> this sounds familiar :D 09:49:32 <peter1138> Pinkbeast, depends how often 09:49:40 <peter1138> planetmaker, secondary owner, not too hard 09:50:03 <planetmaker> and how do I know which vehicle type? Is "tram" a flag? 09:50:08 <peter1138> of course you have to duplicate every road type :p 09:50:15 <Pikka> D: 09:50:18 <peter1138> tram as a flag is horrible 09:50:21 <Pinkbeast> Once per company merger (and perhaps provide a feature in the player UI for "change all track of type X to type Y") 09:50:22 *** michi_cc_ [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Server closed connection] 09:50:29 <planetmaker> but how else, if as one road type? 09:50:48 <peter1138> planetmaker, one road type == road, one road type == tram, one road type == rotr 09:50:53 <planetmaker> you'll put the combinatoric explosion in the road type itself. And make combining newgrfs like impossible 09:51:03 <peter1138> trams are compatible with tram & rotr 09:51:15 *** michi_cc [michi@00012723.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:51:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 09:51:18 <Pikka> exactly the same as with railtypes 09:51:31 <peter1138> fuck combining newgrfs 09:51:35 <Pikka> stop thinking of trams as anything other than "road vehicles which need a particular type of road" 09:51:45 <peter1138> they all look shit and are unbalanced when combined anyway 09:51:52 <Pikka> ? 09:51:54 <planetmaker> ... 09:52:05 <Pikka> why can't you combine grfs? 09:52:26 <peter1138> usually they have completely different price rances 09:52:27 <peter1138> *ranges 09:52:31 <peter1138> and running costs 09:52:33 <planetmaker> So I just add the new "dirt roads" NewGRF. And I simply can't have the trans cross the dirt road? Sounds... broken 09:52:34 <peter1138> and capacities 09:52:38 <planetmaker> would even work now 09:52:50 <planetmaker> if we just added roads and no new trams 09:52:58 <peter1138> yup, you'd need a dirt+tram type 09:53:11 <peter1138> who knows 09:53:11 <Pikka> you wouldn't, but yeah :) 09:53:12 <planetmaker> honestly, that's quite stupid IMHO 09:53:44 <peter1138> (allow multiple engine sets was the worst thing i ever did) 09:53:50 <Pikka> no it isn't, peter 09:53:51 <Pikka> anyway 09:53:56 <peter1138> yeah it is 09:54:00 <planetmaker> lol 09:54:01 <Pikka> trams and tramtrack grfs 09:54:03 <peter1138> even you wanted to prohibit it at some point! 09:54:11 <Pikka> no different from 3rd rail vehicles and 3rd rail track grfs 09:55:03 <planetmaker> road types: bool is_tram; bool needs_catenary; 09:55:09 <Pikka> no 09:55:12 <peter1138> no no no 09:55:17 <peter1138> road type: tram 09:55:24 <peter1138> is_tram is useless 09:55:30 <planetmaker> if is_tram == true --> draw as overlay on road. Otherwise not. needs_catenary for road *or* tram: draw catenary 09:55:35 <Pikka> <Pikka> stop thinking of trams as anything other than "road vehicles which need a particular type of road" 09:55:50 <peter1138> planetmaker, and tram tracks without road below? 09:56:13 <planetmaker> peter1138, in order to define drawing order. And to avoid two trams or two roads on same tile 09:56:23 <planetmaker> but to allow road + tram 09:56:30 <Pikka> NO 09:56:30 <planetmaker> i.e. like now 09:56:35 <peter1138> so i can have tram & trolleybus crossing? 09:56:38 <peter1138> *can't 09:56:43 <Pikka> planetmaker, there's no such thing as "tram", stop it 09:56:55 <planetmaker> peter1138, yes, you can. why not? 09:57:06 <peter1138> but you just disallowed two trams on the same tile 09:57:13 <peter1138> but hey 09:57:20 <peter1138> is a trolleybus a tram or a road vehicle? 09:57:21 <planetmaker> peter1138, trolleybus are road vehicles, not tram 09:57:29 <planetmaker> roadtype + catenary 09:57:36 <Pikka> trams are road vehicles, not tram :D 09:57:55 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 09:58:08 <planetmaker> ok: how do you, Pikka, want to tell OpenTTD that first the road, then the tram tracks need drawing? 09:58:17 <Pikka> I don't 09:58:20 <planetmaker> call it how you like then 09:58:30 <Pikka> it will draw the road tile 09:58:33 <Flygon> Clearly we need to mod OpenTTD to let trams on train tracks 09:58:37 * Flygon runs away quickly 09:58:39 <Pikka> which may or may not have tram tracks on it 09:58:51 <planetmaker> that's a step back wrt even now 09:59:10 <Pikka> it's a step back from a horrible mess, yes 10:00:19 <planetmaker> how is it a mess? 10:00:37 <planetmaker> two different road types. two different sprite sets. easy 10:00:43 <planetmaker> you don't have that with rail tiles 10:00:51 <Flygon> If I can make a silly statement, it's always annoyed me how roads are the size of one track width, despite the size of one road land irl being the same size as one lane irl 10:00:53 <planetmaker> there you always only had and have one 10:00:56 <Flygon> But, I know it's a holdback from 1994 :3 10:01:14 <Pikka> yes, and it's so much simpler, innit? 10:01:40 <planetmaker> Pikka, let's code trains as ships. Easy. No signals, no junctions to care, etc 10:02:49 <Pikka> sure, except trams /are/ road vehicles. there's no difference between trams and road vehicles except trams have a hacky implementation of semi-road-type which is getting in the way of doing road types properly. 10:02:53 <Flygon> May as well make a Final Fantasy GRF 10:03:14 <Flygon> Where you have airships coupled together to create airfreight, and it looks like 1500s sailing ships 10:03:23 <Flygon> Not that that's a bad idea, mind you 10:03:34 <peter1138> Flygon, do it 10:03:53 <planetmaker> Pikka, not true. It are two different road types. Not semi 10:03:56 <Flygon> I lack both the coding competency and art skills :p 10:04:08 <planetmaker> it's mutually exclusive for a vehicle 10:04:14 <Flygon> My stuff is toonier than roger rabbit @_@ 10:04:58 <Pikka> but it shouldn't be. they're just a different kind of road vehicle and should be rolled back into a roadtypes spec which resembles the railtype spec as far as practical 10:05:32 <planetmaker> sure. I agree. But that doesn't imply there can't be two road types per tile :-) 10:06:03 <Pinkbeast> Now is not the time to mention those Simutrans trams that quite happily use heavy rail as well. 10:06:08 <planetmaker> and that's the single major difference between roads and rails 10:06:10 <Pinkbeast> ... ooops 10:06:16 <Flygon> Pinkbeast: I already mentioned it 10:06:21 <Flygon> <Flygon> Clearly we need to mod OpenTTD to let trams on train tracks 10:06:43 <Pinkbeast> Sorry. I missed the previous mention of Simutrans - when was it? 10:07:00 <Flygon> The ideal solution would be roads being one tile a lane, but we know that's impossible without breaking compatibility 10:07:12 <Flygon> Pinkbeast: I mentioned the idea, but not Simutrans 10:09:45 <Pikka> planetmaker, well, if you're going to make it happen with two roadtypes per tile, I guess I shouldn't argue. ;) it just seems to me that one is simpler and easier 10:11:27 <Pikka> in case it's not obvious, btw, I think that OpenTTD should not ship with any "built in" tram tracks. tram tracks in existing games should all revert to normal road, and the "tram" flag for road vehicles should be deprecated 10:11:57 <Flygon> Why not simply read the saves based on version number 10:12:09 <Flygon> If it's below a certain number, offer to convert it to the new format 10:12:47 <Pikka> regardless of how roadtypes are implemented, trying to salvage the existing system would be more trouble than it's worth, imo :) 10:13:10 <Flygon> Concured 10:13:28 <planetmaker> Flygon, you ... state the obvious which OpenTTD does since the beginning of time... silently 10:14:02 <Flygon> planetmaker: Wouldn't the change of something as fundumental as the roadtypes be potentially dangerous to convert? 10:14:22 <planetmaker> yes... and? 10:14:39 <planetmaker> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/236756aa2cde/src/saveload/afterload.cpp look how long our conversion file already is 10:14:58 <planetmaker> a mere 3000 lines. And that doesn't include everything 10:15:05 <Flygon> Lemme rephrase this 10:15:21 <Flygon> I've been not involved with the development of OpenTTD 10:15:55 <Flygon> So half the stuff I've been saying is probably from foggy memories of forum posts x.x 10:19:25 <Flygon> Point is, almost everything I've worked with, none of it even resembles OpenTTD 10:21:06 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r24950 trunk/src/autoreplace.cpp (2013-01-31 10:21:04 UTC) 10:21:06 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:21:07 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r24136): Also set replace when old flag when replacing an autoreplace 10:21:09 <peter1138> yo dawg 10:21:22 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 10:22:20 <peter1138> back to trams & simutrans, yeah... trams should never have been road vehicles imho 10:22:27 <peter1138> bloody ttdp 10:22:34 <peter1138> what's ever done for us? 10:23:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.180.52] has joined #openttd 10:23:31 <peter1138> ... 10:23:35 <__ln__> it has set a goal 10:23:35 <peter1138> why does svn allow that? 10:23:55 <peter1138> i just committed from a checkout that wasn't updated 10:24:27 <__ln__> it doesn't matter if you don't touch files that don't need to be updated. 10:24:50 <peter1138> no but it's bad practice imho 10:25:08 <peter1138> can still end up with invalid code 10:26:35 <__ln__> given how slowly ottd adopted many of the files that ttdp had had for years, i don't think ottd would have advanced at all without ttdp setting a level of features that people expect. 10:30:19 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:33:47 <peter1138> probably not 10:33:55 <peter1138> i doubt we've come up with newgrf 10:34:01 <peter1138> *we'd've 10:34:37 <Pikka> no need for newgrf really 10:34:46 <peter1138> xml 10:34:56 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 10:34:57 <Pikka> coal tgvs and the maglev update cycle were so fun 10:34:59 <peter1138> or ini files 10:35:04 <Pikka> :] 10:35:26 <peter1138> newgrf stations are just pointless 10:35:35 <Pikka> pretty though 10:36:02 <peter1138> MICROPROSE PRESENTS 10:36:05 <peter1138> a game by 10:36:08 <peter1138> Chris Sawyer 10:36:17 <peter1138> TRANSPORT TYCOON DELUXE 10:36:48 <peter1138> we should put those annoying splash screens in 10:36:53 <Pikka> yes 10:36:55 <__ln__> absolutely 10:37:14 <peter1138> right, how do i play? 10:37:25 <Pikka> wow, they did it 10:37:43 <peter1138> who what? 10:37:48 <Pikka> david braben got on kickstarter and said "give me two million dollars and I'll think about making elite 4" 10:37:54 <Pikka> and they did it 10:38:00 <peter1138> oh, old news :p 10:38:03 <Pikka> yes 10:38:04 <Pinkbeast> Mugs 10:38:10 <peter1138> elite dangerous or something 10:38:12 <peter1138> problem is 10:38:15 <peter1138> it's not elite 10:38:15 <Pikka> but you're talking about chris sawyer made me think about it 10:38:19 <peter1138> on the bbc micro 10:38:26 <peter1138> which is the one true elite 10:38:28 <peter1138> true 10:38:33 <Pikka> *cough* frontier was better than elite 10:38:36 <peter1138> he did pc elite or something 10:38:45 <Pikka> he did the pc port of frontier, yes 10:38:49 <Pinkbeast> peter: cough murmur second-processor or Master Elite is the one true Elite 10:38:52 <peter1138> hm 10:38:57 <peter1138> Pinkbeast, TUBE ELITE 10:38:59 <__ln__> MICROPROSE PRESENTS a game by Sawyer, Ludde, Darkvater, Bjarni: OPEN TTD 10:39:02 <Pikka> complete with "look out for chris sawyer's transport game, coming soon" billboards in the space stations 10:39:04 <peter1138> in colour 10:39:10 * Pinkbeast played TUBE ELITE 10:39:36 *** kamnet [4a83bb80@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:39:47 <peter1138> only on an emulator :( 10:39:56 <peter1138> didn't have a real one 10:40:10 <peter1138> awww, no mouse wheel support 10:40:30 <peter1138> no resizable windows, hehe 10:40:44 <Pinkbeast> Ah, bad luck. I dunno what happened to that old Beeb, but I had access to a real one. :-) 10:40:55 <peter1138> mine died eventually :( 10:41:28 <Pinkbeast> At least the emulators are good these days. I think the Spectrum boys had a hidden advantage in having such crappy hardware - emulation got sorted out much earlier. 10:41:29 <Pikka> you're? 10:41:36 <Pikka> I've been talking to scuddles too muc 10:41:37 <Pikka> h 10:42:03 <peter1138> yeah i was playing on speccy emulators 15 years ago 10:42:16 <peter1138> i can only just emulate a beeb on my core 2 quad... 10:42:25 <peter1138> dosbox is faster damn it! 10:42:28 <Pinkbeast> Pretty sure there's still a Beeb in active service here. 10:42:49 <peter1138> i don't really see why, it's not exactly advanced hardware 10:42:52 <peter1138> not much in the way of quirks 10:42:58 <peter1138> 6502/6522 are simple 10:43:15 <peter1138> the crtc was common enough 10:43:18 <Pinkbeast> I think you must be using a ropey emulator - BeebEm worked fine for me on kit from about 5 years ago 10:43:24 <peter1138> (i think early cga cards used them as well) 10:43:30 <peter1138> beebem stutters for me 10:43:52 <peter1138> oh 10:43:53 <peter1138> hmm 10:43:55 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:58 <peter1138> technically this pc is from 5 years ago 10:44:31 <Pinkbeast> Maybe more than that, I forget how fast hardware changes. A 1.8GHz single-core Athlon, anyway. 10:44:37 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:44:53 <peter1138> 3.0 GHz 10:45:24 <Pinkbeast> So I think you must have some other problem with BeebEm. 11:19:52 <__ln__> http://publicintelligence.net/tactical-chat/ 11:25:13 *** goodger [~ben@host81-154-150-255.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:29:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.180.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:50 *** NGC3982_ [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has quit [Server closed connection] 11:32:52 *** NGC3982 [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has joined #openttd 11:52:25 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 11:58:36 <NGC3982> What just happend 11:58:47 <Pikka> aliens 11:58:54 <NGC3982> Did i got disconnected? 11:59:10 <NGC3982> My status tells me i didnt, but #OpenTTD just gave me a nicklist. 11:59:24 <Pikka> * NGC3982_ has quit (Server closed connection) 11:59:24 <Pikka> * NGC3982 (appe@noskapin.krot.se) has joined #openttd 11:59:32 <NGC3982> Oh, ok. 11:59:45 <NGC3982> Moon magic. 12:08:47 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> therefore, no. adding a separating catenary bit is stupid <- i think there needs to be some UI improvement to easily switch between electrified/unelectrified rail, without going through the lengthy (hidden) dropdown menu 12:09:09 <goodger> I concur 12:09:18 <peter1138> i disagree 12:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> at the least, add the railtype dropdown to the rail toolbar 12:10:26 <peter1138> that is more reasonable 12:10:35 <Eddi|zuHause> next to the convert button 12:10:47 *** Sacro [~ben@000127ee.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:11:06 <goodger> not only for the UI but because the presence or absence of a catenary is not necessarily a distinct "railtype" 12:11:20 <peter1138> yes it is 12:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> as an extension, allow the NewGRF to split that dropdown into two, at the NewGRF's choice to separate rail and catenary, or something completely different 12:11:51 <peter1138> no 12:12:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it helps solve some combinatoric explosion 12:12:29 <Eddi|zuHause> don't change the internal railtype labels, but change how the railtypes are presented to the user 12:13:12 <goodger> with nutracks there are a baffling array of track types which are really just four track types plus all combinations of third rail and catenery 12:13:20 <peter1138> no 12:13:45 <Pinkbeast> I'm not sure 16 yet counts as a baffling array 12:13:49 <goodger> I feel that could be better handled 12:14:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: all numbers >7 are problematic 12:14:39 <peter1138> don't use track sets with so many combinations if it's confusing you 12:14:43 <goodger> Pinkbeast: please forgive my hyperbole, but it's certainly a vast increase over TTD's original three kinds of track 12:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: it's not about confusing, it's about cumbersome 12:15:13 <peter1138> don't use track sets with so many combinations if it's cumbersome 12:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: you frequently change between "128km/h with catenary" and "128km/h without catenary", but less frequently between "128km/h" and "180km/h" railtypes 12:15:51 <goodger> (and those were actually three distinct kinds of track) 12:16:32 <V453000> I think the whole rail speed limits are stupid, howgh 12:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that is not the point :) 12:16:54 <V453000> I know :P 12:17:07 <Pinkbeast> ... why? 12:17:25 <V453000> speed should be set by engine, not tracks 12:17:39 <V453000> doing it by tracks just shows that the train set has dumb train stats 12:17:43 <Pinkbeast> That's just circular. 12:17:57 <goodger> in the real world, both the engines and the tracks have speed limits 12:18:15 <V453000> yes real world also doesnt have pixels 12:18:22 <V453000> not that I know of at least 12:18:38 <Pinkbeast> Err so the engines should just fly through the air. It's not the real world. 12:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause> tracks don't have speed limits, signal distances and curves have speed limits 12:19:21 <Pinkbeast> Tracks _do_ have speed limits - presence or absence of superelevation, ability to sustain wear from trains at high speeds. 12:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> (except when the tracks are horribly worn down) 12:19:41 <V453000> and how is that relative to the game ? :) 12:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> superelevation, wear ==> curve-related 12:19:48 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 12:19:55 <Pinkbeast> And signal distances are not meaningfully represented by OTTD signals. 12:20:10 <goodger> it's relevant to the game because the game is a simulation 12:20:34 <Pinkbeast> Eddi: But you can't superelevate a curve; OTTD doesn't directly represent curves less than 45 degrees; wear matters even on straight tracks. 12:20:55 <Pinkbeast> I mean, in OTTD there is no way to superelevate a curve to permit higher speeds 12:21:58 <Pinkbeast> Track for high-speed trains _is_ much more expensive and it is in my view nice to see that in the game. 12:22:09 <Pinkbeast> (also, axle loading limits, hem-hem) 12:22:24 <peter1138> personally i would've gone with "normal tracks" and "high speed tracks" 12:22:43 <peter1138> and high speed tracks don't need 3rd rail or non-electrified variants 12:22:47 <V453000> but what is the technical difference for the game? 12:22:52 <V453000> nothing, except cost 12:23:05 <V453000> oh and prevented rail crossings (:DDD) 12:23:07 <peter1138> yup cost 12:23:13 <Pinkbeast> V453: I'm not sure I even understand your question. 12:23:31 *** peter1138 [~petern@00013681.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 12:23:33 <V453000> trains behave the same on these tracks 12:23:45 <Pinkbeast> Except they go slower, yes... is this not expected? 12:23:46 <V453000> except that it obviously prevents trains X from going full speed there 12:23:55 <V453000> that is ... completely useless? 12:24:02 *** SpComb^_ [terom@zerg.fixme.fi] has quit [Server closed connection] 12:24:04 *** SpComb^ [terom@zerg.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd 12:24:14 <V453000> if the trains have their stats correctly, their usefulness should be defined by those, not tracks 12:24:25 <Pinkbeast> This is just circular again. 12:24:39 <V453000> if tracks are used to reduce speed of trains, and they are still useful, then their speed is apparently too high in the first place 12:25:00 <V453000> cost is completely irrelevant 12:25:04 <Pinkbeast> Errr tracks aren't "used to reduce speed of trains". Tracks reduce the speed of trains because they need upgrading. 12:25:20 <V453000> right 12:25:25 <V453000> so absolutely no effect 12:25:32 <goodger> what 12:25:38 <V453000> cause upgraded tracks will do nothing then? wont even slow trains down 12:25:40 <Pinkbeast> Except reducing the speed of trains which is what you'd expect a speed limit on tracks to do. 12:26:10 <V453000> tracks after upgrade will still limit speed? :D 12:26:16 <Flygon> Just a note 12:26:17 <Pinkbeast> goodger: V453 thinks everyone plays the same way he does; set up a cash cow and then buy the best of everything. 12:26:38 <Flygon> The pathfinder will do anything to put High Speed Trains on FASTER routes, even if the trip would be LONGER 12:26:38 <V453000> I dont think that at all, I know you play differently 12:26:40 <Pinkbeast> In that mode of play, of course, low-speed tracks serve no purpose. 12:26:53 <Flygon> eg. it'll prefer 1000 tiles of 240km/h track over 100 tiles of 160km/h track 12:26:58 <goodger> Pinkbeast: well, that is also how I play 12:26:59 <V453000> it isnt any mode 12:27:21 <V453000> having everything expensive doesnt do anything at all, making money in openttd is trivial 12:27:31 <V453000> it just makes you wait longer 12:27:44 <Pinkbeast> _If_ you just set up a cash cow and buy the best of everything. 12:27:44 <goodger> but I don't spend £85k per tile on unlimited-speed track when the trains are going to be running at 75 mph 12:27:45 <V453000> eventually build less expensively, but still only prolonges the game 12:28:31 *** peter1138 [~petern@00013681.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:28:34 *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ 12:28:37 <V453000> to be fair, nutracks with higher cost setting do mean that you upgrade trains only when you have money for the tracks 12:28:42 <peter1138> stupid servers 12:28:43 <V453000> but again that is what train set should do 12:28:54 <Pinkbeast> Says you - but that's purely circular. 12:28:57 <goodger> actually, since I've been playing with cargodist, I've been very stingy 12:29:38 <V453000> ok, says me, and what does you say that tracks give as a gameplay feature? 12:29:48 <V453000> it "fixes" train sets, ok, next? 12:30:04 <goodger> it doesn't fix train sets 12:30:12 <V453000> oh it so does 12:30:14 <Pinkbeast> We already explained that; it's just your inability to understand how anyone else plays the game means you don't comprehend. Sorry. 12:30:29 <V453000> I am asking for a simple answer 12:30:37 <V453000> that has nothing to do with me understanding 12:31:06 <Pinkbeast> Prioritising track upgrades versus other expenditure of money and human attention is fun. 12:31:30 <goodger> it provides a separate, infrastructure-based constraint on the speed of the train, which is more in line with how railways actually behave than having all trains run at their maximum speed on all routes 12:31:46 <peter1138> Flygon, that just means the penalties applied are too steep 12:31:47 <Pinkbeast> And as goodger says it also feels more like a "real" railway. 12:31:55 <V453000> :D ok I had enough fun 12:32:18 <Flygon> peter1138: Steep is an understatement 12:32:43 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:12 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 12:35:58 <goodger> I'm glad to see the spirit of co-operative discourse in this channel hasn't diminished in my absence 12:36:50 <Pinkbeast> Oh, I'm used to V453 and his "Why would you want trains to be different lengths, anyway?" questions. :-) 12:37:16 * goodger sniggers 12:38:17 <goodger> I wonder how long it's been since I was last here. 12:38:59 <peter1138> april 2012 12:39:07 <peter1138> only for a week or 2 12:39:13 <peter1138> before that, 2009 12:39:46 <goodger> your grep skills are clearly superior to mine 12:39:52 <peter1138> i didn't 12:39:56 <peter1138> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/search?count=100&q=goodger 12:40:01 <NGC3982> Does the dedicated server (Windows) use multiple CPU threads? 12:40:14 <NGC3982> Or does it use my computer like the actual game? 12:40:20 <goodger> oh, fair enough. 12:40:27 <peter1138> NGC3982, it is the actual game 12:40:33 <NGC3982> I see. 12:40:34 <peter1138> but with no window 12:41:14 <NGC3982> I'm about to move my server from my HTPC (Windows 7) to a Pentium 4 server (with no direct graphic interface). 12:41:30 <NGC3982> I guess the P4 will do better than my Atom230 (twat face) HTPC. 12:41:30 <goodger> <dihedral> goodger, 6% is not that much, when you consider that about 20-25% of the forum users are real idiots 12:42:37 <goodger> now I want to know the context for this. 12:43:16 <peter1138> yeah it doesn't appear to search nicks 12:43:24 <goodger> shame. oh well 12:44:12 <peter1138> hehe @ feb 2009 12:44:14 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:34 <V453000> I am just wondering if that is more, or less retarded than the previous topic Pinkbeast :) 12:44:35 <goodger> oh god 12:44:39 <goodger> the binary thing? 12:44:42 <goodger> that was embarrassing 12:44:47 <peter1138> nah the spammy bot 12:44:56 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 12:44:58 <goodger> orite 12:45:34 <goodger> I'd like to point out that I have been receiving medical attention for a couple of years and it has made me less of a tit* 12:48:11 <V453000> I will ask you one thing however, Pinkbeast. I am indeed missing at least one part of "your" building logic, and that is ... what do you actually do when you have enough money to afford anything? 12:48:19 <V453000> as that moment inevitably comes at some point of the game 12:48:23 <Pinkbeast> Sigh. 12:48:35 <Pinkbeast> Think about starting another game. 12:48:43 <V453000> :DD 12:49:05 <Pinkbeast> But I also make human attention a limited resource. If I was playing with base railtypes, for example, I won't just select the whole map and electrify it. 12:49:07 <V453000> really? :D 12:49:13 <Pinkbeast> I'll electrify one line after another. 12:50:28 <peter1138> hell yeah, i don't electrify the whole thing 12:50:31 <Pinkbeast> Also, ponder the mess that is RV routing. 12:51:11 <V453000> electrified roads? 12:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause> trolleybusses!! 12:54:04 <Flygon> VACTUBE ROADS 12:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause> hover roads 12:54:56 <Pinkbeast> But I am very much in favour (for me) of things like infra maintenance and progressive tax that keep money relevant as long as possible without making the early game agonisingly slow. 12:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> back-to-the-future-style 12:56:09 <Pikka> wow, that was quick 12:56:23 <Pikka> "Coal Ash is CMNT", mb replies within 3 minutes 12:56:51 <peter1138> heh 13:05:14 *** EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:10:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be TMNT :p 13:11:26 <NGC3982> TMNT <3 13:14:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.180.52] has joined #openttd 13:23:54 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:27:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i'm not entirely convinced that reusing a random label for something completely different is a bright idea 13:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. an eyecandy vehicle set could have a cement transporter for CMNT only 13:29:42 <V453000> hm, Q: I have some railtype defined by my newGRF. What I want to do is make it compatibile with both original bridges, and newbridges. But newbridges have a bit different bridge heads which need a slightly different offset for the ramps. Is there any way to automatically check if newbridges are loaded within nuts, or should I just add that as a parameter? 13:29:57 <V453000> aka can a newgrf check for other loaded newgrfs? 13:30:07 <Pikka> yes it can 13:30:41 <V453000> k now to find out how in NML :D 13:31:24 <V453000> well, that later :) 13:31:30 <peter1138> or newbridges should be fixed ;p 13:31:31 <V453000> thanks Pikka :) 13:33:02 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: FIRS has lots of checks for other newgrfs 13:33:11 <V453000> right :) 13:33:28 <V453000> well I just figured it might be better to have sprites first before doing such a feature :P 13:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely sure what you mean with needing different offsets though 13:35:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and there are several bridge sets 13:35:51 <V453000> the ramps are of the same shape, but different position 13:35:51 <V453000> somehow 13:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause> newbridges, combined bridge and road set, total bridge renewal, ... 13:36:10 <V453000> I know, but has some custom heads which wont fit my tracks at all in fact 13:36:24 <V453000> *tbrs has 13:36:40 <V453000> and the rest of tbrs seems compatible with original 13:36:52 <V453000> so I might just need that one check for the ramps for newbridges 13:38:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i think combroads has mostly the same bridges as newbridges, so you should check for that as well 13:39:18 <V453000> I dont think I even used that thing ever :D 13:39:24 <V453000> but I heard about it 13:39:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i did a long time ago 13:39:46 <Eddi|zuHause> until OTTD broke it 13:40:11 <V453000> well I know I tried it some time ago, but it didnt replace anything 13:41:47 <V453000> OH :DDD 13:41:48 <V453000> my god 13:42:00 <V453000> I forgot the sprite aligner resets upon reloading newgrfs 13:42:11 <V453000> newbridges and original seem compatible 13:42:22 <V453000> no comment .. :) 13:50:20 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:50:52 <Eddi|zuHause> what do people want this shares thing for anyway? i always hated the stock market in RRT 13:51:45 <peter1138> don't remember that 13:52:02 <NGC3982> Any cinematic buffs around here? 13:52:08 <V453000> something like "omg I spend 1M now, I get 300M later when I dont know what to do with money anyway" 13:53:04 <peter1138> yup 13:53:08 <peter1138> shares are useless 13:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: it's the thing where if you don't react immediately to an AI buying shares in your company they get 60% and you lose 13:53:18 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, ouch 13:53:31 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:54:05 <Pinkbeast> I thought it worked well in RRT3 (albeit perhaps not right for OTTD) where you were often trying to increase your personal wealth, and where share issues were a sensible source of funding. 13:56:14 <Flygon> Can't make a Government Railway and issue bonds? :P 13:56:30 <Flygon> Government Railways: The fun is in hoping Tony Abbot doesn't get elected! 13:56:41 <Flygon> Man's probably never been to a train station in his life 13:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea wth you're talking about 13:57:52 <Flygon> I'm ranting again 13:58:10 <Flygon> Point is, not every company is in the stock market 13:58:33 <Flygon> Man, I'm so stupid when I'm suppose to be going to sleep >_> 14:01:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: well, in RRT you can buy 50% (or 100%) of your shares, then a hostile takeover is much harder. but doing that in the beginning would probably eat up all your starting money 14:01:38 <Flygon> Makes sense 14:01:43 <Flygon> Sorry for my ignorance x: 14:01:53 <Flygon> Peeps keep telling me to play RRT x.x 14:02:01 <goodger> yeah, stock buybacks are not usually a good idea 14:02:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i just always disabled that they try to buy you out, then it's fine 14:05:00 <NGC3982> planetmaker: Are you around? I for some time ago noticed that you had some knowledge in star formations? :) 14:06:09 <goodger> formations, or formation? 14:07:00 <planetmaker> I might be and I might have but that's definitely a meta-question I can't answer 14:07:19 <NGC3982> Ah, yes, formation. As in nurseries. 14:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> he's a planetmaker, not a starmaker :p 14:08:12 <NGC3982> I have recently started reading about the more practical birth of stars. 14:08:17 <NGC3982> And it's quite interesting. 14:08:39 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, planets are just collateral "damage" :-P 14:10:17 <Eddi|zuHause> so what are twin stars then? :p 14:10:24 <NGC3982> Lesbians. 14:10:34 <planetmaker> canibals 14:11:27 *** Devroush [~dennis@d5152695A.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:11:54 <Eddi|zuHause> "lesbian canibals"... you want to make people aroused and disgusted at the same time? at this hour? :p 14:12:33 <goodger> furries have made a profitable industry out of doing so 14:12:45 <NGC3982> I for some time ago heard that our current observation states that most star have a twin 14:12:48 <NGC3982> Thus, many lesbians 14:13:12 <Eddi|zuHause> what's "most" in this context? 14:13:24 <goodger> I think it was about 70%? 14:13:30 <goodger> maybe more 14:13:32 <NGC3982> I do not know, really. 14:13:52 <planetmaker> most stars are in multiple systems. Not most stars systems are a multiple system :-) 14:13:55 <planetmaker> Note the difference 14:14:20 <NGC3982> I guess that is size-of-orbit related? 14:14:39 <planetmaker> No. Simple number theory 14:14:57 <NGC3982> Then, i did not understand that. 14:14:59 <Eddi|zuHause> if i have two star systems, and one of them is a twin-star system, then 66% of all stars are in a twin system 14:15:06 <planetmaker> if 2/3 of the stars are in binary systems, still 50% of the stellar systems are single 14:15:32 <NGC3982> Oh 14:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause> because twin systems have twice as many stars 14:15:51 <Celestar> :P 14:15:54 <NGC3982> Yes, of course. 14:16:54 <Celestar> planetmaker: well. ternary and higher star systems also bias that observation 14:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so if 33% of all star systems are twin systems, then 50% of all stars are in twin star systems 14:17:13 <NGC3982> But in a cosmological sense, a star that orbits another star closely with planets (a "two star system") is the same thing as a twin star system, with only orbit size in difference? 14:17:22 <NGC3982> Or is this some magical language thing i have missunderstood. 14:17:37 <Celestar> NGC3982: hm? 14:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: i'd assume those get rarer so that the influence drops asymptotically 14:17:46 <NGC3982> Yes, this was a magical language thing. 14:18:21 <planetmaker> planets don't matter when considering multiplicity of stellar systems. Planets are just dust 14:18:46 <NGC3982> planetmaker: If not, what is the difference of a two star system, and a twin star system? 14:18:51 <NGC3982> That was the thing that puzzled me. 14:18:57 <planetmaker> And yes, the multiple stellar systems with n>=3 become increasingly rare 14:18:59 <Celestar> afaik triple star systems are not THAT rare 14:19:09 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: i think of it as the twin star is a planet that got large enough to shine on its own 14:19:12 <planetmaker> NGC3982, there's none? 14:19:33 <Celestar> "planet that got large enough to shine on its own" <- that's no planet anymore 14:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: semantics 14:19:50 <Celestar> unless someone on it built a huge bulb 14:19:51 <planetmaker> oh, you mean two distinct systems vs. double star? gravitationally bound is the definition of double (multiple) system 14:20:11 <planetmaker> A system generally is everything which is gravitationally bound to eachother 14:20:13 <NGC3982> planetmaker: Yes, and so i thought, that is why i noted: "< NGC3982> I guess that is size-of-orbit related?" when "two star" and "twin star" systems was mentioned. 14:20:36 <planetmaker> size of orbit = oo for two systems 14:20:40 <NGC3982> A two star system that also has a long distant twin star. Three stars in a system, but only two locally. 14:20:47 <planetmaker> i.e. "orbit" has no meaning there 14:20:48 <NGC3982> Oh, ok 14:21:16 <planetmaker> that'd be a quadruple system consisting of two close binaries. No problem with that. 14:21:23 <NGC3982> I guess i'm not supposed to argue on stuff like this, when the language hinders me from understanding basic points. 14:21:23 <Celestar> α Geminorum 14:21:25 <Celestar> :) 14:22:48 <Celestar> planetmaker: is it meanwhile clarified whether Alpha Centauri is a triple star system? 14:23:11 <planetmaker> I always believed that it's a tripple? 14:23:36 <Celestar> I wasn't sure whether Proxima is really gravitationally bound or just happens to be near :P 14:24:12 <Celestar> hm .. Septuple star systems. 14:24:59 <planetmaker> I've no special knowledge there either. 14:25:00 <Eddi|zuHause> just imagine indefinite star systems, then 7 is just a special case :p 14:25:32 <planetmaker> I read once the wiki article on it, that's it :-P 14:25:43 <Celestar> ;P 14:26:40 <planetmaker> https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~clada/pubs_html/pubs/binaries_final.pdf actually makes a case that most stars AND stellar systems are single 14:28:11 <Celestar> yah. 14:28:23 <Celestar> stellar systems can't be single, can they :P 14:28:45 <NGC3982> Why not? 14:29:10 <Celestar> because afaik the definition of a stellar system is > 1 star gravitationally bound to one another :P 14:29:33 <NGC3982> Doesn't the definition allow multiple (fairly closed, but still attached by gravity) stellar systems to be "twins"? 14:29:39 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-12-222.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:29:40 <NGC3982> Well, sure 14:29:55 <NGC3982> In hard science, all of the universe is one stellar system, then. 14:30:12 <Celestar> er .. no 14:30:57 <planetmaker> Celestar, a stellar system can consist of one star only 14:31:07 <NGC3982> Yes, it would. Since gravity works in infinite distance, one could propose such a thing. We do not, since we notice that stellar systems have some sort of limit to them. 14:31:21 <Celestar> planetmaker: that's a star system or planetary system :P 14:31:22 <NGC3982> And, if we can define a limit, we can also define more than one stellar system 14:31:37 <Celestar> NGC3982: gravitationally bound means C3 < 0. 14:31:42 <peter1138> :S 14:31:44 <peter1138> 18 rail types o_O 14:31:46 <planetmaker> Celestar, a star system with one star can be a planetary system with a single central body. yes 14:31:51 <NGC3982> Thus, if more than one exist, we could potentially tie them together without calling them a single system. A cluster, for instance. 14:31:54 <NGC3982> Is that not correct? 14:31:55 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:31:58 <planetmaker> the inverse is not necessarily true 14:32:03 <Eddi|zuHause> you guys really should fix up your semantics before assuming the other one uses it the same way as you :p 14:32:27 <planetmaker> :-) 14:32:38 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Yes, i know. And that might be my fault. I love science, but i can't really express it properly in English. 14:32:59 <planetmaker> Celestar, replace "stellar" by "solar" and you'll see that one star suffices :-) 14:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> none of us us english :p 14:33:30 <Celestar> planetmaker: afaik stellar system != star system (or solar system) 14:33:35 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: This channel consists of the best english speaking non-english people i have ever encountered on IRC. 14:33:38 <SpComb> imagine in infinite plane of identical and uniformly distributed stars 14:33:55 <Celestar> with solar system being one instance of a star system :P 14:33:58 <SpComb> then calculate the resistance between two points 14:33:58 <NGC3982> Wikipedia states that a solar system = stellar system. 14:34:01 <SpComb> wait, no 14:34:10 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: usually the worst english speakers are native english speakers :p 14:34:24 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: That makes me feel a tad bit better. 14:34:26 <NGC3982> :P 14:35:01 <Celestar> "a solar system"? There is only one :P 14:35:14 <NGC3982> Sweet jesus, people are using public servers like crazy. When starting to advertise my server, i thought id get one or two players per day. Now, it feels like ten people join every hour (and leave :/). 14:36:13 <planetmaker> Celestar, you only make sense, if you now argue that "stellar system" is the same as Galaxy. Otherwise stellar system = star system = system where one or more stars form alone or jointly the local gravitational well which it / they reside in and which their prospective planets etc might orbit as well 14:37:13 <Celestar> planetmaker: ah from what I understood a stellar system is a binary or higher star system. 14:37:20 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:37:37 <Celestar> hm.no wait. 14:37:38 <planetmaker> I'd never necessarily assume so :-) 14:37:40 <planetmaker> hehe 14:37:47 <Celestar> Even Wikipedia doesn't make sense there :P 14:37:59 <planetmaker> that's why you must not quote it ;-) 14:38:04 <Celestar> I don't 14:38:05 <Celestar> :P 14:38:20 <planetmaker> (or only on pain of scientific death or so) 14:38:23 <NGC3982> Is there a way to set a defualt user password? 14:38:42 <peter1138> as a user, yes 14:38:43 <peter1138> on a server, no 14:39:08 <NGC3982> Oh, what command/entry can i use? 14:39:18 <Celestar> ok. let's say a bunch of non-stars orbiting one or more stars is called a "planetary system". A Star system is a number of stars gravitationally bound to each other, they may or may not have planets. 14:39:22 <Celestar> ? 14:39:46 <NGC3982> That sounds about right. 14:39:51 <goodger> yarp 14:39:52 <planetmaker> I'd like to include single stars in the latter 14:40:08 <Celestar> what's the difference between a planetary system and a star system then? 14:40:15 <NGC3982> My intuition tells me that a star system does not have to include anything else than the star. 14:40:24 <planetmaker> given the ubiquity of planets: in reality none 14:40:31 <NGC3982> Eh? 14:40:33 <Celestar> planetmaker: probably 14:40:34 <Celestar> :D 14:40:38 <NGC3982> A planetary system needs planets, i guess? 14:40:50 * NGC3982 googles the word ubiquity 14:41:00 <NGC3982> Ah. 14:41:11 <Celestar> I think we will find few stars that do not have planets 14:41:24 <NGC3982> s/planets/stuff 14:41:32 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:41:41 <planetmaker> sure, there will be. no doubt. Especially those short-lived high-mass ones 14:41:43 <Celestar> no I meant planets, no stuff :P 14:41:46 <NGC3982> I guess older stellar nurseries may have protoplanet junk instead of actual spheres. 14:41:50 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/rt32.diff 14:41:51 <Celestar> planetmaker: "few" :P 14:41:54 <planetmaker> though even those will have a disk. Most likely 14:41:58 <peter1138> ^ unsuppported! patch! for! 32! railtypes! 14:41:59 <planetmaker> Celestar, yes. very few 14:42:11 <Celestar> planetmaker: aren't the high-mass ones very very very friggen rare? 14:42:16 <planetmaker> big stars are very scarce 14:42:38 <planetmaker> the initial mass function peaks somewhere around half a solar mass. Thus that's most common 14:43:05 <NGC3982> So, the sun is bigger than the average? 14:43:05 <Eddi|zuHause> when i last took astronomy class, the theory was that multi-star systems likely wouldn't have planets 14:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but that was ages ago :p 14:43:15 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: when was thaT? 1995? 14:43:16 <Celestar> :D 14:43:18 <NGC3982> I was under the impression it was the other way around. :) 14:43:22 <planetmaker> http://iopscience.iop.org/0004-637X/646/1/523/pdf/0004-637X_646_1_523.pdf 14:43:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: yes, something like that :p 14:43:41 <planetmaker> treatise on multiplicity of stars for planetary systems ;-) 14:43:51 <Celestar> NGC3982: well. average or mean size? :P 14:43:52 <__ln__> did anyone take an astrology class? 14:44:11 <NGC3982> __ln__: We actually did. 14:44:14 <Celestar> __ln__: if I had, I would have been convicted of manslaughter I guess 14:44:31 <Celestar> astrology? class? really? 14:44:44 <Celestar> Was your teacher called Trelawny? :P 14:44:49 <peter1138> i think he doesn't know what astrology means :) 14:44:50 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:45:00 <peter1138> i hope 14:45:04 <NGC3982> As a bit of our astronomy/physics lessions, we had a (suprisingly long) part about astrology, and how it is the worst "science" that was ever used seriosly. 14:45:13 <peter1138> hmm 14:45:15 <Celestar> science? 14:45:16 <NGC3982> peter1138: I was about to curse on you. 14:45:34 <Celestar> Making stuff up isn't science 14:45:40 <Celestar> it's politics 14:45:41 <__ln__> in the good old times, astronomy and astrology were one science, i've understood. 14:45:42 <NGC3982> Hence, the "". 14:45:42 <Celestar> :P 14:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: clearly that missed out on homoeopathy 14:45:57 <NGC3982> Religion was also considerd the best of observation back in the day 14:46:26 <NGC3982> As with astrology, hence the teachers enthusiasm in teaching us how the best of observations might lead to the worst of conclusions. 14:46:48 <NGC3982> That is at least what i guess the point was. 14:47:15 <Belugas> hello 14:47:30 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 14:47:44 <Celestar> Hello A300-600ST :P 14:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: well if the moon cycle and a woman's cycle (almost) sync up, what conclusions can you possibly draw? :p 14:48:13 <Belugas> hehe 14:48:13 <Celestar> erm. yeah. right. :D 14:48:16 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: That sex is magic, and "blue balls" should really be "moon balls". 14:48:20 <Belugas> hello sir Celestar :) 14:48:25 <Celestar> ;) 14:48:27 <Celestar> how ya been 14:48:49 <Belugas> still sitting on the same chair and drinking teh same coffee since last time ! 14:48:59 <Celestar> same coffee? 14:49:02 <Celestar> yuck 14:49:04 <Belugas> well... same mug, same brand of coffee... 14:49:19 <Belugas> and same frequency of drinking... 14:49:39 <NGC3982> peter1138: And that assumption offended me. 14:49:40 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: also, if a certain star formation typically appears at the same time as the fertilizer-bringing flood, and mix in a bit of religion... how can there come anything other than astrology out of it? 14:49:42 <Belugas> and still mumbling about stupid "help" desk 14:50:07 <Belugas> Definition of HelpDesk... the guys who are crying for help... 14:50:13 <peter1138> NGC3982, i was going on a native-language angle 14:50:26 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: well but that's the past. 14:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: the past has this tendency to bleed into the presence... 14:51:13 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Well, that was kind of the point of these lessons. Our modern school systems can be very good at teaching how to be sceptic, but also be very bad at teaching where scepticism is appliable. As in the example you gave, the connection may be irrefutable with what at the time was modern observation. 14:51:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it's called "conservativism" 14:51:25 <planetmaker> hi Belugas 14:51:28 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> aka "we have always done it this way" 14:52:03 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: And the main purpose might have been not to accept "the best of observation" just because it's the best of observation. 14:52:07 <NGC3982> Yes, indeed. 14:52:09 <NGC3982> Or, well 14:52:11 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 14:52:12 <NGC3982> It doesn't have to be 14:53:17 <NGC3982> Since we have explored science and nowadays know that stuff may not be what they seem like, it's easy to say that everything is the "best of observation - right now". 14:53:33 <NGC3982> That is hard to apply in a society where your observation always leads to some kind of truth. 14:53:43 <NGC3982> God in pre-space-exploring times, for instance. 14:54:10 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: yeah hence we have some strange leftovers..... 14:54:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, like partys that have a "C" in their name 14:55:05 <NGC3982> Lawrence Krauss has a good conversation about this in A universe from nothing, where he compares astrology with what future scientists may say about the world when the expansion leads to us not observing anything else but our own galaxy. 14:56:45 <Pinkbeast> Oh, yes, I saw a story about that in Scientific American. And of course there is the interesting question of whether this has already happened. 14:56:52 <NGC3982> Yes 14:56:58 <NGC3982> And that is a horrible notion 14:57:26 <Pinkbeast> ... but I think he rightly observes that in that old universe it is very hard to form a self-consistent cosmology supported by evidence at all, which is not the position we are in. 14:57:37 <NGC3982> The best of observation leads to an ultimate theory that can under almost no circumstances be disproved due to enourmous proof and observation ..And it's ..Wrong. 14:57:54 <NGC3982> Yes, i guess. 14:58:38 <NGC3982> I guess we could potentially ignore it, though. 15:00:43 <peter1138> wibblewah 15:02:35 <Pinkbeast> Also, our cosmological theory makes predictions which prove true, which is always nice. Even if the old-universe people form a bogus cosmology, that won't work. 15:03:16 <NGC3982> Yes. 15:10:45 <oskari89> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/16/developer_oursources_job_china/ 15:11:12 <Belugas> hello sir planetmaker (sorry for lag, i was cutting some heads) 15:11:53 <planetmaker> old news, oskari89 ;-) 15:14:14 *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:38 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@00017153.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 15:29:50 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@00017153.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:36:16 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:36:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5D95.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:06 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5D95.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:44:02 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:47:40 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:49:12 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:50:40 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@mobile-198-228-233-118.mycingular.net] has joined #openttd 15:51:13 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:51:51 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:00:21 *** goodger [~ben@host81-154-150-255.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: goodger] 16:01:09 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@mobile-198-228-233-118.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: left.] 16:01:41 *** goodger [~ben@host81-154-150-255.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:08:02 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-50dd93-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Server closed connection] 16:08:17 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-50dd93-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:13:49 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@mobile-198-228-233-118.mycingular.net] has joined #openttd 16:17:14 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:19:03 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 16:19:20 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:22 *** mrdaft_ [~mrdaft@216.11.96.2] has joined #openttd 16:21:58 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@mobile-198-228-233-118.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: left.] 16:21:58 *** mrdaft_ is now known as mrdaft 16:23:43 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:29:46 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-1.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:38:58 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-1.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 16:48:38 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 16:51:10 *** mdv is now known as neli 17:08:22 <NGC3982> I wish to change my server system from Windows to Linux. What dist is the best one to start with? Ubuntu? 17:08:34 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@216.11.96.2] has quit [Quit: -] 17:09:32 * NGC3982 tries Debian. 17:16:20 <Terkhen> hello 17:17:07 <Pinkbeast> NGC: If you have no prior Unix admin experience I would try Ubuntu; if you have plenty, Debian. 17:18:03 <peter1138> why? 17:18:26 *** Yexo [~Yexo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 17:18:41 *** Yexo [~Yexo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 17:19:41 <Pinkbeast> Ubuntu because it's approachable (but a Debian derivative); Debian because it's of a high technical quality and not tied to a corporate who might pull a Red Hat. 17:20:00 <peter1138> what's unapproachable about debian? 17:21:56 <Pinkbeast> Debian is not really targetted at users without existing Unix admin experience 17:23:42 <peter1138> in your humble opinion 17:24:00 <peter1138> it isn't "targetted" at all 17:24:05 <peter1138> it just is 17:24:18 <Pinkbeast> I think that's a meaningless semantic quibble. 17:24:19 <peter1138> anyway 17:24:24 <peter1138> ubuntu == crock of useless shit 17:24:28 <Pinkbeast> ... and I also know IWJ would say the same thing. 17:25:07 <Pinkbeast> (and recommends Ubuntu to less-experienced users) 17:25:35 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: I have no prior experience. 17:25:57 <peter1138> so no need to pollute your virginity with ubuntu crap 17:27:48 <Pinkbeast> NGC: Then you know what I recommend. 17:29:15 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: I have used both, but never more then in instances as user. 17:29:29 <NGC3982> I guess i know how to start stuff. 17:29:31 <NGC3982> But i guess ill manage 17:29:56 <Pinkbeast> Well, I'm chasing off home, nohow. But I don't really have anything to add to "probably Ubuntu then" 17:30:25 <NGC3982> :) 17:30:29 <NGC3982> Already installing Debian 17:30:32 <NGC3982> Ill try it out 17:35:45 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.94.140] has joined #openttd 17:42:23 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.85.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:44:52 <peter1138> blathijs ;) 17:44:53 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b563.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:47:44 <blathijs> peter1138: hm? 17:58:00 <MNIM> peter1138: well, post 10.10 anyway 17:58:19 <MNIM> also, guys, what was the conclusion of that roadtypes discussion you had this morning? 18:03:02 * MNIM reads changelogs 18:03:33 <Terkhen> conclusions? in this channel? 18:03:46 <Terkhen> :O 18:03:53 <MNIM> 0.0 18:04:29 <MNIM> holy meatballs, is it just me or is there a buttload of new features in the 1.3.0 beta? 18:06:11 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has quit [Quit: [RESET]] 18:06:51 <Terkhen> there are many nice things :) 18:07:46 <Terkhen> meh, I'm stupid, I forgot to separate beta1 and <next_version> in my changelog 18:09:47 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:09:56 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:09:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:13:46 <peter1138> conclusion... lol 18:13:56 <peter1138> i did make a patch for 32 railtypes 18:14:03 <peter1138> but nobody cared cos it was all about stars 18:20:37 *** Devroush [~dennis@d5152695A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:25:40 * NGC3982 is done. 18:25:58 <NGC3982> This will be interesting. I have never used any server software on a Linux system. 18:26:08 <NGC3982> It will be nice to see how Debian works out. 18:27:48 <peter1138> what do you intend to run? 18:29:33 <NGC3982> The game, as a server. 18:31:08 <NGC3982> Oh, and it was ..simple. 18:32:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, just type openttd -D and you have a server. amazing 18:32:46 <NGC3982> Well, that is not the big part. 18:33:23 <NGC3982> I guess choosing NewGRF's and map configuration is not as easy as in Windows, since i do not have any graphical interface to start OpenTTD in. 18:34:03 <peter1138> yeah, someone⢠should do something about that 18:34:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24951 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2013-01-31 18:34:11 UTC) 18:34:16 <DorpsGek> -Fix: [NewGRF] Var 10 of CB 24 missed the T part. 18:35:19 <NGC3982> peter1138: You make it sound as it's impossible. :e 18:36:32 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has joined #openttd 18:43:03 <peter1138> it's pretty impossible to get someone⢠to do something 18:45:11 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24952 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/tamil.txt (2013-01-31 18:45:07 UTC) 18:45:12 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:13 <DorpsGek> tamil - 15 changes by aswn 18:48:56 <NGC3982> Hm. 18:49:01 <NGC3982> I'm actually not getting it to work. 18:49:10 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 18:49:28 <NGC3982> I guess the default config should support simply starting the server dedicated, and playing should work as long as networking allows it? 18:49:44 * NGC3982 needs to investigate. 18:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause> something for Belugas :) http://www.hornoxe.com/wp-content/picdumps/picdump295/hornoxe.com_picdump295_004.jpg 18:56:51 <peter1138> NGC3982, yes but LAN only i think 18:57:25 <NGC3982> I worked it out. 18:57:28 <NGC3982> Though 18:57:36 <NGC3982> The version present in apt-get is 1.0.4 18:57:57 <peter1138> ah yeah 18:58:01 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: it's missing on top a picture from spain with salt on the streets but no snow 18:58:13 <NGC3982> How ..does one remove software. 18:58:13 <peter1138> just need to download a stable from our website 18:58:15 <NGC3982> :P 18:58:18 <peter1138> don't bother :) 18:58:19 <NGC3982> Oh lord 18:58:22 <NGC3982> Alright 18:58:25 <NGC3982> I'm on it. 18:58:26 <Terkhen> a week ago they actually started a "red alert for snow" but we got no snow at all 18:58:44 <NGC3982> I wonder if openttd.org supports lynx. 18:58:44 <peter1138> installing it pulled in all the dependencies for you, which was handy 18:58:47 *** chrisw [~chrisw@cC165BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 18:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: in LÃŒbeck they used sharp-edged greeble, and now all the bicycles have flat tyres 18:59:08 <peter1138> there is a debian squeeze patchage on our downloads 18:59:19 <NGC3982> Squeeze? Ok.. 18:59:36 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:59:43 <Terkhen> heh :D 19:03:57 <NGC3982> My god 19:04:02 <NGC3982> Giant error message 19:04:14 <NGC3982> It seems it did not like to install 1.2.3 when 1.0.4 was installed. 19:04:26 <peter1138> shouldn't be a problem 19:04:34 <peter1138> it'll remove 1.0.4 to install 1.2.3... 19:05:17 <NGC3982> http://pastebin.com/gP9s9sqF 19:06:17 <NGC3982> Hold on, something else is wrong. 19:06:25 <NGC3982> I could install openttd with apt-get as a user. 19:06:38 <NGC3982> But i don't seem to have the rights to use dpkg, as the same user. 19:06:42 <NGC3982> Might that be a problem, say. 19:11:38 <Belugas> nice, Eddi|zuHause ;) 19:12:53 <peter1138> you can't use apt-get as a user 19:13:07 <peter1138> you need to be root, use su, or sduo 19:13:08 <peter1138> *sudo 19:13:40 <Belugas> of sudoku 19:13:46 <Belugas> -f+r 19:13:50 <peter1138> NGC3982, okay, ignore me. remove openttd & openttd-data 19:13:59 <peter1138> NGC3982, then it'll install 19:14:03 <peter1138> but check the clock on your server 19:14:11 <peter1138> cos those errors are cos of that 19:14:20 <NGC3982> Oh, ok. 19:14:24 <NGC3982> Yet 19:14:30 * NGC3982 needs to google how to remove programs. 19:14:42 <peter1138> apt-get remove 19:14:51 <peter1138> on a deb-based system anyway 19:15:19 <NGC3982> Nice, thank you. 19:15:29 <NGC3982> Now, all i need to fix is to allow my user to install via dpkg. 19:16:31 <peter1138> nope 19:16:40 <peter1138> apt-get install sudo 19:16:52 <peter1138> adduser username sudo 19:16:55 <peter1138> logout 19:17:04 <peter1138> then you can do sudo dpkg etc 19:17:12 <NGC3982> I have sudo 19:17:18 <NGC3982> But yes, ill try that. 19:17:27 <peter1138> then add your user to the group :p 19:18:38 <NGC3982> It was already done 19:18:44 <NGC3982> I think i did that by hand. 19:18:45 <NGC3982> :D 19:22:21 <NGC3982> Let's see then 19:22:43 <NGC3982> First, i run the apt-get remove, and it confirms that openttd is not installed 19:22:50 <NGC3982> Then, i run this: http://pastebin.com/ihrxnmM8 19:23:18 <NGC3982> openttd-data does not seem to be removed with sudo apt-get remove openttd. 19:23:23 <peter1138> nope 19:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> how is your reading comprehension? he said to remove BOTH! 19:23:34 <peter1138> indeed 19:23:36 <NGC3982> Oh 19:23:39 <NGC3982> Sorry, yes. 19:23:52 * NGC3982 continues. 19:24:08 <NGC3982> There we are. 19:25:26 <NGC3982> It seems i need libicu38. 19:25:44 <peter1138> o_O 19:26:07 <Eddi|zuHause> then you probably downloaded the wrong .deb 19:26:21 <NGC3982> Hm. 19:26:28 * NGC3982 re-checks. 19:26:57 <peter1138> works for me 19:27:01 <peter1138> linux debian squeeze 19:27:09 <peter1138> you must have got linux debian lenny 19:27:15 <NGC3982> Yes, indeed i did! 19:27:29 <NGC3982> I did not see that Squeeze link until i rechecked 19:27:29 <peter1138> well done 19:27:38 <NGC3982> That's what i get for using Lynx. 19:27:40 <peter1138> 18:59 < NGC3982> Squeeze? Ok.. 19:27:44 <peter1138> yersss 19:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> something is really wrong with your reading comprehension 19:28:19 <NGC3982> I had no idea what Squeeze was. 19:29:32 <NGC3982> And it worked. 19:29:36 <NGC3982> peter1138: Thank you. 19:29:38 <peter1138> amazing ;) 19:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: http://blog.admin-linux.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/infographic_debian_history-en-v081.png 19:30:42 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04fbbc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 19:30:45 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04fbbc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:32:24 <peter1138> probably not helpful 19:33:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:49:05 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:59:17 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:59:51 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 20:05:53 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 20:06:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-092-078-023-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:27:33 <andythenorth> quiet? 20:28:15 <Kjetil> no. music 20:29:50 <Belugas> yeah 20:30:09 <Belugas> This Will Destroy You - Black Dunes 20:36:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.189.11] has joined #openttd 20:40:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.180.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:53:22 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 20:55:57 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 20:56:56 <MNIM> D'oh. You'd think my intersection would be big enough with a HSL line crossing a 'slow' mainline with two branches 20:57:27 <MNIM> Apparently I was wrong. 20:59:42 <MNIM> well, I suppose you could call it four branches if you count the part past the station too. 21:00:33 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:02:01 <MNIM> I think Ive finally found the root of my routing issues though. 21:04:29 <NGC3982> So 21:06:58 <NGC3982> There is a site with the corresponding Online Content data, right? 21:07:18 <NGC3982> For me (who cannot use the Online Content feature)? 21:07:45 <NGC3982> That seems to be BaNaNas. 21:09:32 <peter1138> technically you can 21:09:36 <peter1138> it's just not very friendly 21:10:49 <NGC3982> Yes, i noticed. My initial reaction was to look for a "Download everything" button. 21:11:06 <peter1138> there is that 21:11:17 <peter1138> you might end up grabbing zbase though 21:11:22 <peter1138> which is a bit large 21:11:27 <NGC3982> zbase? Oh, ok. 21:14:34 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-092-078-023-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:57 <NGC3982> Uhm 21:22:19 <NGC3982> I tried downloading all of the ECS files that was on the Bananas site, but they ..do not seem to be the same as the ones in the Online Content? 21:22:46 <NGC3982> That said, i can't get them to match with the already existing ones my local Windows client is using. 21:22:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:23:50 *** Superuser [~root@host86-152-172-169.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:25:22 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:27:32 <MNIM> victory! 21:28:06 <Superuser> le good feel 21:29:08 <MNIM> I think (hope) I solved all routing troubles in my new intersection, now I hope I can get that festering stinking sexual organ of a train route that was one of my local stop services to run on the correct track 21:32:40 <peter1138> mmm, festering stinking sexual organs 21:35:10 <Terkhen> that sounds far worse than the actual swear words 21:37:19 <MNIM> As was my intention, thank you :P 21:38:37 <MNIM> Seriously, it was a train route running across half of a 1024^2 map stopping at every station it encountered and not a single train was doing anything useful due to one tiny error (a signal pointed the wrong way) 21:39:06 <MNIM> well, and the inherent routing complication a parallel loop comprises, but that was easily solved by waypoints 21:42:44 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:44 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:55:49 <MNIM> hmmmmh. 21:55:52 <MNIM> 48 orders. 21:55:59 <MNIM> less than I expected, actually 22:00:45 <NGC3982> Where can i read on how i toggle parameters on NewGRF's that are loaded via a dedicated server (in Linux)? 22:01:19 <NGC3982> For some reason, the UKRS2+ sets a default "No locomotives" parameter when using the GRF in my initial config. 22:01:47 *** Fira [artix@server5.tonbnc.fr] has joined #openttd 22:02:05 <frosch123> you write numbers after the "=" in openttd.cfg 22:02:25 <NGC3982> oh 22:07:47 <NGC3982> frosch123: Where can i find more documentation about it? I notice that "Parameter: 3" shows, but it does not change any of the existing ones. 22:08:15 <frosch123> do you know that openttd.cfg will only affect you games? 22:08:23 <frosch123> s/you/new/ 22:08:24 <Supercheese> NGC3982: Load OTTD in a normal GUI-environment, set your parameters, and look at what they are there to compred 22:08:31 <Supercheese> to compare* 22:09:18 <Supercheese> For example my UKRS2 has Parameters: 0 0 2 1 0 4 3 22:09:28 <Supercheese> UKRS2+ has no parameters 22:10:24 <NGC3982> Yes, sorry, i was refering to UKRS. I think i kind of fixed it. 22:10:31 <NGC3982> Ill just test it and see what happends. 22:10:33 <NGC3982> frosch123: Yes. 22:11:02 <Supercheese> GUI parameters are nice, since they have real descriptions and stuff rather than just being numbers :) 22:12:16 <NGC3982> Yes. 22:13:19 <NGC3982> Hm, it did not work. 22:13:34 <NGC3982> Supercheese: is "0" the first choise of the given parameter? 22:13:40 <Supercheese> Methinks 22:13:56 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/McSrhy3.png 22:14:04 <Supercheese> First parameter, Locomotive Selection, is for me set to "Extended" 22:14:04 <NGC3982> number "3" is "normal" for the first parameter. 22:14:31 <Supercheese> Oh weird 22:14:43 <Supercheese> Locomotive Selection is NOT the first in the parameter numbers 22:14:49 <Supercheese> It's second-to-last 22:15:10 <Supercheese> So Parameters: X X X X Y X 22:15:14 <Supercheese> The Y is loco selection 22:15:20 <NGC3982> Uhm, how do i know that? 22:15:27 <Supercheese> Y = 4 is "Extended" 22:15:29 <NGC3982> I only went for in what order the list was in. 22:15:36 <Supercheese> Y = 0 is "no locos" 22:15:48 <Supercheese> (this info is all obtained from the NewGRF GUI) 22:16:05 <NGC3982> Yes, that part is clear to me. What is not clear to me is why it's second to last in order? :) 22:16:11 <Supercheese> Yeah, I dunno either 22:16:15 <NGC3982> Alright 22:16:16 * NGC3982 changes. 22:17:03 <NGC3982> Yes, that worked. 22:17:05 <NGC3982> Thanks. 22:18:23 <Supercheese> you're welcome 22:19:14 *** tycoondemon [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Server closed connection] 22:19:19 *** tycoondemon [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:19:39 <NGC3982> That means i am done moving my server 22:19:49 <NGC3982> Debian+Samba+Openttd+all of the configs. 22:20:07 <NGC3982> It is currently housed in this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/appemobile/8432033187/in/photostream 22:28:48 <Terkhen> good night 22:37:03 <MNIM> NGC3982: you got a server hidden in that? 22:39:26 *** chrisw [~chrisw@cC165BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:42:42 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@yoda.zernebok.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 22:42:43 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@yoda.zernebok.com] has joined #openttd 22:51:04 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:53:47 <MNIM> well this won't help my death count. 22:54:18 <MNIM> a 14-tile long intercity rammed into an equally long freighter at a sing I expected it to stop at (i was wrong) 22:54:23 <MNIM> *sign 22:55:04 <MNIM> oh wait, not a 14-long ic, just a 5-long local double-decker. 23:05:19 *** Celestar_ [~vici@mnch-4d04fbbc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:05:19 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04fbbc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:19:17 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:55 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:20:15 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:22:09 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 23:32:12 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:34:39 <frosch123> night 23:34:44 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b563.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:52 *** DabuYu [DoubleYou@128.250.79.247] has joined #openttd 23:38:53 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:48:23 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 23:49:44 *** goodger [~ben@host81-154-150-255.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:55:33 *** Dr_Tan [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:58:23 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04ee3e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:58:37 *** goodger [~ben@host86-128-75-210.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd