Log for #openttd on 11th February 2013:
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00:00:08  <Zuu> Its used in the road vehicle details window.
00:02:59  <andythenorth> Pikka: future is modular innit
00:03:12  <andythenorth> pods
00:03:27  <Pikka> totes
00:03:45  <andythenorth> only one wagon for maglev, one for mono
00:03:47  <Zuu> STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS_CARGO_EMPTY contains :{LTBLUE}Empty. The string that contains the x, is STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS_CARGO_FROM_MULT
00:03:47  <andythenorth> there's your 10
00:03:49  <andythenorth> done
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00:03:59  <Superuser> Talking of the future®
00:04:00  <andythenorth> you can go back to bed, everything is finished
00:04:06  <Superuser> I have seen the future of the web forum
00:04:12  <Superuser> It is beautiful.
00:04:14  <Superuser>
00:04:15  * andythenorth is going to bed, everything is definitely finished for today
00:04:21  <Pikka> goodnight wallyweb
00:04:21  <Superuser> Discourse is web forum 2.0
00:04:30  <Pikka> tomorrow you can work out av9 for me :)
00:04:40  <Zuu> Superuser: STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS_CARGO_FROM_MULT is used for the details window of trains.
00:04:49  <andythenorth> I thought we did AV9 already?
00:04:56  <Pikka> nope
00:04:59  <andythenorth> sikorsky, 737, 747
00:05:06  <Zuu> str = FreightWagonMult(item->cargo) > 1 ? STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS_CARGO_FROM_MULT : STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS_CARGO_FROM;
00:05:26  <Superuser> yes, seems insignificant, if you are keen on changing this though (a) you're probably very bored, and that's okay, and (b) you should do it to ALL the strings which require a multiplication sign
00:05:45  <andythenorth> Supercheese: jeff atwood eh?
00:05:46  <andythenorth> interesting
00:06:15  <Supercheese> wot
00:06:58  <Superuser> I'm Superuser, not Supercheese
00:07:03  <Superuser> and yes, that's how I actually found it
00:07:09  <Pikka> 737s and 747s are dull
00:07:10  <andythenorth> herp, silly old autocomplete
00:07:15  <Supercheese> :P
00:07:27  <andythenorth> Pikka: dc10 and antonov
00:07:34  <Pikka> probably
00:07:35  <andythenorth> you want real planes, or pretend?
00:07:42  <Superuser> I thought he (rather surprisingly) had something of a hard-on for open source, despite being a .NET programmer
00:07:45  <Supercheese> "Large body airliner"
00:07:47  <Pikka> dunno
00:07:49  <Supercheese> "Small airliner"
00:07:53  <Pikka> I'll see how I go
00:08:05  <Supercheese> "Small turboprop"
00:08:08  <andythenorth> next up, redesign FIRS
00:08:14  <Supercheese> "Rigid Airship"
00:08:55  <andythenorth> I guess I'd better rename FIRS
00:08:59  <andythenorth> for the new version
00:09:08  <Pikka> rename it something that isn't an acronym
00:09:08  <Supercheese> SPRUCES
00:09:10  <Supercheese> PINES
00:09:11  <Pikka> acronyms are passe
00:09:32  <andythenorth> AAP?
00:09:45  <Pikka> YTA
00:09:59  <andythenorth> HD
00:10:01  <Zuu> or just "industries"
00:10:33  <Zuu> The new thing. Things named after what they are. For extra confusion. :-)
00:10:35  <andythenorth> fair point
00:10:48  <andythenorth> did MB no harm
00:10:54  <andythenorth> NewShips
00:10:56  <andythenorth> NewStations
00:11:13  <Zuu> Like there is a GS called CitiBuilder which is a GS implementation of a city builder script among many different implementations.
00:11:23  <Zuu> CityBuilder*
00:11:52  <Pikka> NewEngineeringSupplies
00:12:01  <andythenorth> hmm
00:12:04  <andythenorth> SQUID
00:12:06  <andythenorth> is a nice name
00:12:10  <Pikka> sure
00:12:15  <andythenorth> also, wikipedia has interesting facts about them
00:12:16  <Pikka> but it doesn't have to stand for anything :P
00:12:17  <andythenorth> they can fly
00:12:24  <Zuu> Or NoIndustries
00:12:27  <andythenorth> CHIPS doesn't stand for anything
00:12:32  <andythenorth> it just goes with FISH
00:13:03  <Zuu> If it would be my set, it could be SuperIndustries or Industryless. :-)
00:13:08  <andythenorth> squid have the second most extreme penis-to-body-length ratio in  the animal kingdom
00:13:13  <andythenorth> they can solve puzzles
00:13:20  <andythenorth> they have three hearts
00:13:30  <Pikka> I think instead of SQUID you should call it Calamari
00:13:59  <andythenorth> yeah
00:14:02  <Pikka> Calimaritime
00:14:06  <andythenorth> ho ho
00:14:13  <andythenorth> but I'll keep typing it wrong :
00:14:15  <Pikka> -i+a
00:14:23  <andythenorth> see, I can't even type a :) properly
00:14:28  <Pikka> Calamaritime
00:14:55  <Pikka> CalaMaritTime
00:14:59  <Pikka> -t
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00:15:03  <Pikka> CalaMariTime
00:15:09  <Pikka> I can't type it right either
00:15:46  <Zuu> Yeah, get a long name so that you can read/watch people saying "that neighbours script" because they cannot remember the full name. :-)
00:16:20  <Superuser> andythenorth: is FIRS related to BURS?
00:16:20  <Pikka> call it "Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines, Or How I Flew from London to Paris in 25 Hours 11 Minutes"
00:16:20  <andythenorth> Squid (CalaMaritime)
00:16:44  <andythenorth> so what should I delete in FIRS?
00:16:54  <Pikka> no idea
00:16:58  <andythenorth> probably nothing
00:17:02  <andythenorth> I am ok with FIRS
00:17:10  <andythenorth> just play the basic economies, all is well :P
00:17:15  <Pikka> probably, FIRS is a non-minimalist set
00:17:26  <Pikka> unlike GECKO or whatever I end up calling it
00:17:29  <andythenorth> the only thing I'd delete is the idea of providing valid industry chains from year 0
00:17:38  <andythenorth> which is a silly headache
00:17:44  <Pikka> yes
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00:43:42  <Superuser> Internally
00:44:12  <Superuser> if you set say a road vehicle to a go a really long way along which there are multiple depots, will it stop at more than one before reaching its destination if necessary? or just one?
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00:51:49  <Superuser> The above is extremely important, so please just look at it when taking a glance at your client
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00:56:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it will stop at more than one depot (unless you give explicit depot orders)
00:57:48  <Superuser> ok thanks
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01:20:20  <Superuser>
01:20:23  <Superuser> what in the world
01:20:29  <Superuser> "{BLACK}Vehicle data to base jumping on"
01:20:35  <Superuser> what does THAT mean???
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01:20:41  <Superuser> my mind is full of fuck
01:24:33  <Eddi|zuHause> it should probably be reworded...
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01:27:28  <Eddi|zuHause> ... although i can't find any sane version of that sentence
01:28:25  <Superuser> what does it mean?
01:29:52  <Superuser> also, you're just an hg commit from changing the sentence ;)
01:32:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have commit access
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03:25:11  <peter1138> everyone can commit in hg or git
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04:07:38  <Pikka> can they though?
04:09:36  <peter1138> yes
04:09:44  <peter1138> now why has evolution rolled back to mid-january?
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05:36:04  <__ln__> tere hõmmikust
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07:36:23  <Pokka> that's because
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07:58:48  <Pikka> good morning andythenorth
08:00:34  <andythenorth> bonsoir
08:03:12  <Pikka> has inspiration struck overnight?
08:03:28  <andythenorth> AV9?
08:03:33  <andythenorth> call it something else
08:04:30  <andythenorth> also, for long-lived ship classes, do they deserve a name?
08:04:44  <andythenorth> or can I get away with 'Large Trawler', 'Small Coaster'
08:05:05  <Supercheese> I think everyone will have different opinions on that
08:05:27  <Pikka> probably don't need a name if they're generic types
08:05:39  <Pikka> what's wrong with av9?
08:06:44  <andythenorth> 'meh'
08:06:50  <andythenorth> mix it up a bit?
08:06:55  <andythenorth> BlackBox.grf
08:08:02  <Pikka> clever names are all very well
08:08:45  <Pikka> but you don't think "slartibartfast.grf is the new 68903.grf" isn't a bit confusing or past-care-factor for the average punter?
08:09:00  <andythenorth> 10CC_Planes.grf
08:09:05  <andythenorth> just 10CC everything
08:09:10  <andythenorth> what's you new PBI called?
08:09:17  <Pikka> dunno yet
08:09:30  <Pikka> I called it gecko in the blog post, because I didn't want to call it TaI
08:09:42  <Supercheese> TaI for me implies the townset
08:09:45  <Supercheese> not the industryset
08:11:06  <andythenorth> Ta*
08:13:02  <Supercheese> Tee Ay Eye
08:15:17  <Pikka> I decided to drop TaI because I haven't seen anyone else yet *not* write it "Tal".
08:15:55  <peter1138> what
08:16:02  <peter1138> liar
08:16:11  <peter1138> i never write it "Tal"
08:16:17  <Pikka> you don't count
08:16:28  <peter1138> oh ok
08:16:34  <Supercheese> Typeface issues
08:16:42  <Pikka> I'm just talking about the plebs :)
08:17:00  <Supercheese> TaI is identical to Tal in half or so of the typically-used fonts
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08:18:41  <Pikka> "CERE"
08:18:47  <Pikka> see, this is what I'm talking about
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08:19:16  <Pikka> we already have two too many cargo labels for grain, so ECS decides to fix it by creating another one.
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08:20:39  <andythenorth> Pikka: definitely call something Black Box
08:20:58  <andythenorth> maybe I just call new FISH KLF.grf
08:21:06  <Pikka> should be a law against it
08:22:05  <andythenorth> against disco?
08:23:10  <Pikka> yes
08:26:14  <andythenorth> so can I get away with using these as random graphics on same ship ID?
08:26:15  <andythenorth>
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08:29:36  <Pikka> don't see why not
08:31:57  <andythenorth> \o/
08:34:58  <andythenorth> what about these two?
08:34:58  <andythenorth>
08:35:27  <Pikka> first pme
08:35:30  <Pikka> one
08:35:36  <Pikka> is a steam ship, and the second a diesel?
08:35:46  <Pikka> possibly as generations, not as randoms
08:36:02  <andythenorth> also different hull length
08:36:08  <andythenorth> so probably I can...
08:36:32  <andythenorth> - do random graphics, which keeps me and Dan and Coxx happy, because we have a bad addiction to
08:36:40  <peter1138> 611 downloads whoop
08:36:46  <peter1138> people download any old shite
08:37:00  <peter1138> fillum at eleven
08:37:00  <andythenorth> - but they have to be same hull length, same stats, and recognisably same ship ID
08:39:02  <andythenorth> FISH 2 had this crappy generations thing
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08:39:16  <andythenorth> "oh it's like the last ship, but 1mph faster, and 70t more capacity"
08:39:24  <andythenorth> blah
08:40:20  <andythenorth> tedious autoreplace-scrap-a-few-ships-because-there's-too-much-capacity-on-the-route-meh
08:46:22  <andythenorth> so Pikka what do _you_ want from AV9? o_O
08:46:32  <Pikka> dunno
08:46:34  <andythenorth> cake?
08:46:36  <Pikka> not thinking about it yet :)
08:47:16  <andythenorth> Everything Is Zepellins
08:47:58  <Supercheese> Awesome
08:48:05  <Supercheese> AvZ
08:48:11  <andythenorth> :)
08:48:13  <Supercheese> 100% rigid airships
08:48:23  * Supercheese 's dream come true
08:48:30  <andythenorth> Zeppelin, Spruce Goose, Concorde, Osprey Tiltrotor
08:48:31  <andythenorth> done
08:48:40  <Supercheese> Concorde can buzz off
08:48:45  <Supercheese> Keep the rest :D
08:48:58  <Supercheese> Maybe add a PBY Catalina for good measure
08:49:37  <Pikka> splendid
08:50:39  <Pikka> I'll probably genericise the planes a bit, and bias them towards personal favourites ;)
08:50:48  <Supercheese> Don't we all :)
08:50:49  <Pikka> I'm thinking no airships
08:50:56  <Supercheese> :( :(
08:51:06  <Pikka> airships are terrible
08:51:24  <andythenorth> grfs are 99 flake
08:51:32  <Pikka> yes
08:51:37  <andythenorth> two-thirds vanilla and cone
08:51:37  <Supercheese> Airships are cool, not efficient
08:51:44  <andythenorth> one-thirds flake and sauce
08:56:23  <Supercheese> Pikka: running sounds for the aircraft?
08:56:45  * Supercheese very much likes UKRS running sounds
08:57:45  <andythenorth> hmm
08:58:00  * andythenorth wonders if BANDIT could randomise graphics between cabover and conventional trucks
08:58:03  <andythenorth> could / should
08:58:07  <andythenorth> length would change
08:59:01  <Pikka> no it wouldn't
08:59:17  <andythenorth> difference isn't big enough to bother?
08:59:24  <andythenorth> keep same chassis frame length?
08:59:44  <Pikka> keep the same length, or just have empty space at the front of the cabover
09:00:34  <andythenorth> weird turning offset o_O
09:01:08  <andythenorth> anyway, $someone should get on and write frosh's spec for vehicle 'views'
09:02:06  <andythenorth> then players could choose stuff that's only graphical
09:05:12  <andythenorth> Pikka: eh, it's not buy menu spam that's the problem, it's gameplay spam
09:05:25  <Pikka> is it?
09:05:31  <andythenorth> yarp
09:05:34  <andythenorth> verily and stuff
09:05:43  <Pikka> keeping stuff simple is nice :)
09:05:59  <andythenorth> means I might get 1.0 on a grf :P
09:06:38  * andythenorth shoud stop making grf
09:06:45  <andythenorth> and go make childcare and then internets
09:08:44  <Eddi|zuHause> internets are overrated
09:09:29  <Pikka> okiedokie
09:09:34  <Pikka> hmm
09:09:40  <andythenorth> mmh
09:09:46  <Pikka> right-justified buy menu sprites are for yes?
09:09:49  <Pikka> or for no?
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09:10:40  <Pikka>
09:12:34  <andythenorth> for no
09:12:41  <andythenorth> center-align, like god and CS intended
09:12:53  <andythenorth> although it does create a nice center-edge
09:12:56  <Pikka> eh
09:13:04  <Pikka> God's alright
09:13:11  <Pikka> CS is a bit of a nong
09:13:28  <Pikka> I dunno, it was just an idea
09:14:19  <andythenorth> :)
09:14:33  <andythenorth> is that the sprite size you're using?
09:14:53  <Pikka> it's the normal sprite size
09:15:19  <Pikka> although, in that picture, the wagons are "large" loading gauge, and the loco is "small" loading gauge.
09:15:29  <Pikka> so it's 1px lower than the wagons
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09:20:07  <andythenorth> Pikka: /me likes that sprite size
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09:20:39  <Pikka> in the horizontal views, they're the same size as every vehicle ever drawn :P
09:21:17  <Pikka> the theory is that these are the "bare" vehicle sprites
09:21:38  <Pikka> when you build a wagon and add it to a 10CC locomotive, it will get a proper model
09:21:56  <Pikka> ie, a country and era specific sprite set
09:21:59  <Pikka> and cargo
09:22:04  <andythenorth> I need something similar for Bandit
09:22:07  <andythenorth> maybe ships too
09:22:13  <andythenorth> ghost sprites
09:24:17  <andythenorth> 'contents may vary from packaging'
09:24:24  <andythenorth> 'photo for illustrative purposes only'
09:24:45  <Supercheese> 'some assembly required'
09:24:47  <Supercheese> :D
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09:27:43  <Supercheese> Loading livestock on FISH barges is weird, no specific cargo support so all cargoes look the same
09:27:57  <Supercheese> Poor pigs and cows have been crushed into a generic brown mush O_o
09:28:58  <andythenorth> been thinking about that
09:29:18  <Supercheese> Didn't Mr. NUTS offer his cargo graphics?
09:29:40  <Alberth> moin
09:30:11  <Pikka> daylength people are silly
09:30:24  <andythenorth> did you figure that by reading, or simply the wall of text?
09:30:44  <Supercheese> Can't /ignore the daylength thread, I tried
09:31:48  <andythenorth> my favourite word of last year: tl;dr
09:31:56  <andythenorth> followed closely by: omnishambles
09:31:58  <Pikka> I don't know what they want to achieve. The explanation for "why" is "many players have always been interested".
09:32:07  <andythenorth> both words apply to that thread
09:32:19  <andythenorth> I wanted daylength
09:32:21  <andythenorth> ask why?
09:32:26  <Pikka> why?
09:32:42  <andythenorth> because newgrfs offer vehicle progression so fast that I never really get to watch the trains
09:32:48  <andythenorth> can you think of a solution?
09:32:49  <Alberth> I already asked for a clear goal description, but they just went on with details
09:32:55  <Supercheese> Year cheat
09:32:57  <Supercheese> Save/load
09:32:58  <Pikka> one or two, one or two :)
09:33:23  <andythenorth> NARS 2 is a master criminal
09:33:29  <Alberth> andythenorth: less vehicles in the newgrf, with longer model life time? :)
09:33:37  <Supercheese> I sometimes set up a nice rail line, save before I start it up, watch it run happily for a bit and monitor for problems, then load the save and fix any problems and move on to the next rail line
09:33:40  <Supercheese> rinse repeat
09:33:40  <andythenorth> GP9, GP38, SD40, all come along in about 20 mins of game time
09:33:47  <Pikka> NARS2 is a steaming pile of seemed-like-a-good-idea-at-the-time
09:33:54  <andythenorth> NARS 2 is a lot of fun
09:34:00  <andythenorth> like playing with mud
09:34:04  <andythenorth> or face paints
09:34:14  <andythenorth> it's not a game though
09:34:26  <andythenorth> it's still my second favourite train grf
09:34:29  <Alberth> playing with mud is not a game? :o
09:34:59  <andythenorth> it's ludic
09:35:06  <andythenorth> it's probably not a game
09:35:09  <andythenorth> you can play games in mud
09:35:24  <Supercheese> "ludic", I hope that is a real adjective
09:35:33  * Supercheese will use it if it is :)
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09:35:50  <andythenorth> it's latin and crap
09:35:55  <Supercheese> Yes
09:35:56  <andythenorth> means 'play' and some other things
09:36:06  <Supercheese> Well, just an english-adjetive form of the latin verb
09:36:31  <Supercheese> it seems you can get away with that for most any latin word :P
09:37:09  <andythenorth> Alberth: less vehicles in the newgrf, with longer model life time? <- orly, who'd be thinking of that? o_O
09:38:16  <Alberth> yeah, it is not realistic not to include all historic models of a country!!
09:38:22  <Supercheese> Anyway time for sleep
09:38:29  <Alberth> good night Supercheese
09:38:33  <Supercheese> valete omnes
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09:45:17  * andythenorth -> bye
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09:55:09  <Twofish> Saw some OpenTTD screen shots online - and now I just want to get home from work :(
09:56:34  <Twofish> Even though I guess that there is a possibility that "someone" at home want me to do something other around the house rather than making money in a game :p
10:02:49  <Alberth> browsing screen shots is dangerous :p
10:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you could come across some with opengfx maglev, which seriously hurts your eyes
10:04:41  <Twofish> Well, I stumbled upon them. Haven't given TTD any thoughts for a couple of months... But now, I just want to lay some rail roads...
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11:35:10  <andythenorth> Pikka: go to bed, the sun is going down in Brisbane
11:35:13  <andythenorth> or has alrady
11:35:27  <andythenorth> you might turn into a gremlin
11:37:52  <Pikka> does it
11:38:34  <Pikka> oh
11:38:43  <Pikka> mb just wants to be helpful, good
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11:39:57  <andythenorth> I find him heplful
11:40:20  <__ln__> @seen Polleke
11:40:21  <DorpsGek> __ln__: I have not seen Polleke.
11:40:41  <andythenorth> Squid is basically NewShips it turns out
11:40:53  <andythenorth> how rare
11:46:50  <Pikka> oops
11:47:06  <Pikka> better add sailing ships!
12:00:19  <peter1138> hi
12:00:41  <Pikka> hello peeter
12:02:35  <__ln__> breaking news:
12:06:07  <__ln__> the Pope is going to resign
12:06:11  *** cyph3r [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
12:13:52  <__ln__>
12:19:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i never knew that is even an option
12:19:43  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently only one pope ever resigned, Coelestin V. in 1294
12:20:02  <SpComb> wikipedia says: Age at death: 85 years, 279 days (living)
12:20:23  <__ln__> other sources say it would have happened in 1415, but do not mention the name.
12:21:07  <Eddi|zuHause>
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12:50:07  <MNIM> __ln__: some gregorius
12:52:54  <Pikka> peter: don't
12:53:01  <Pikka> just ignore them and maybe they'll go away
12:53:24  <peter1138> :p
12:54:00  <andythenorth> seaplanes
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12:55:44  <Pikka> I'm making a seaplane set
12:55:49  <Pikka> I see a plane and I don't include it
12:56:09  <andythenorth> this is very dilient of you
12:56:15  <andythenorth> diligent even
12:56:19  * andythenorth is not diligent at typing
12:57:41  <Eddi|zuHause> someone had this in yesterday's calendar sheet: ("holy something, tomorrow i quit")
13:00:05  <andythenorth> Pikka: 10CC RandomPrupleThings
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13:00:16  <andythenorth> silly trains
13:00:27  <Pikka> scrubblestrains 2000
13:00:30  <andythenorth> that
13:00:46  <andythenorth> self propelled rail gun
13:00:54  <andythenorth> for destroying castles, purpose of
13:01:22  <andythenorth>
13:01:38  <Pikka> now you're just being silly :)
13:02:08  <Pikka> peter:  you could of course make the whole discussion moot by simply creating the callback and committing it to trunk :)
13:02:59  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: strange, i only knew "Dora" before, never heard "Schwerer Gustav"
13:03:20  *** Devroush36 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:05:57  <peter1138> and the next commit would be removing the "is an ai" flag :p
13:07:03  <Pikka> suits me
13:10:09  <Eddi|zuHause> if the intention is only to give some diversity to players, then the ai flag is not needed at all
13:23:04  <Alberth> Pikka: how can you ever do 'enabling vehicles as "rewards" ' in newgrf ?
13:23:23  <andythenorth> how can't you?
13:23:24  <Pikka> I have no idea, Alberth
13:23:50  <Pikka> I should just say what I want and why I want it and not try and spice it up with what I think other people might want. :)
13:24:05  <Alberth> you made it part of a newgrf request
13:26:59  <Alberth> why would it be bad to strip those options away in the program code instead?
13:27:26  <Pikka> strip which options?
13:27:41  <Alberth> options to buy some vehicle type(s)
13:28:01  <Pikka> how does the program code know which vehicles to strip?
13:28:24  <Alberth> I guess I am thrown off by "a callback to add/remove vehicles from the purchase list", is that a dynamic property or a static property?
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13:29:24  <Pikka> it's a callback that runs whenever the purchase list is opened (and, possibly preferably if a "vehicle count" var is included, when a vehicle is purchased)
13:29:37  <Pikka> so it's dynamic, yes
13:29:53  <Alberth> the program needs to know either way, or it would not be able to hand it over to the NewGRF. My problem is why pass it on to the NewGRF, as it does not seem to do more than just do what the program already knows
13:30:30  <Pikka> I don't understand what you're saying
13:30:57  <Pikka> it seems to me like "the program already handles the speed of trains, so why have a speed property for trains in newgrf"
13:30:59  <Alberth> you seem to assume that the program gives you the options what a user can buy, right?
13:31:15  <Pikka> yes
13:31:17  <Eddi|zuHause> internally, there is already a bitmask which companies a vehicle is available to
13:31:36  <Eddi|zuHause> it "just" needs a (monthly?) callback to update this bitmask
13:32:04  <Alberth> what do you do with it in the NewGRF other than not returning those vehicles that are 'forbidden' ?
13:32:14  <Eddi|zuHause> currently that bitmask has one of three states: no company, all companies or one single company
13:32:25  <Pikka> nothing
13:32:40  <Alberth> so why pass it on to the newgrf in the first place?
13:32:47  <Alberth> let the program handle it
13:32:52  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: you could force EMU wagons available when a "master" vehicle is available, without delays or prototpye phases
13:33:04  <Pikka> okay
13:33:18  <Pikka> but the newgrf needs to be able to tell the program which vehicles are forbidden, right?
13:33:42  <Eddi|zuHause> and (lacking vehicle "views") it could make several versions of a vehicle available with one single prototype
13:33:55  <Alberth> (01:53:22 PM) Pikka: it seems to me like "the program already handles the speed of trains, so why have a speed property for trains in newgrf" <-- this is subtly different, the newgrf states the proprty values (ie max speed), the program handles the actual speed
13:34:08  <Pikka> yes
13:34:26  <Pikka> and in this case the newgrf states whether a vehicle should be shown, and the program actually shows it (or not)
13:34:57  <Alberth> but you don't have that data, you ask that from the program as well
13:35:06  <Pikka> wat
13:35:16  <Alberth> ie it's like the program gives you the max speed, and then you return it to the program to use
13:35:32  <Pikka> are you talking about "enabling vehicles as "rewards"", or about the general concept of the callback
13:35:47  <Pikka> ?
13:35:57  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i said, the game already has this data, there is just no NewGRF-y way to set it
13:36:55  <Pikka> the general concept is, the newgrf tells the game whether or not to show a vehicle
13:37:19  <Pikka> "enabling vehicles as "rewards"" is something I have no idea about or interest in, and I shouldn't have put in the feature request. :)
13:37:26  <Alberth> but the newgrf does not add anything to the data given from the program, does it
13:37:26  <andythenorth> potatoes
13:37:34  <andythenorth> newgrf returns 0 or 1
13:37:36  <andythenorth> is all
13:37:43  <andythenorth> according to variables that newgrf can access
13:37:56  <andythenorth> how that works with GS is brain-ache
13:38:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the callback result would be the 15-bit bitmask
13:38:11  <Eddi|zuHause> one bit for each company
13:38:16  <Pikka> no it isn't
13:38:23  <Pikka> because no-one's thinking about how that works with GS
13:38:26  <Pikka> GS can go jump
13:38:46  <andythenorth> brain-ache solved
13:38:47  <andythenorth> simples
13:38:55  <Alberth> GS is a different problem imho
13:39:03  <Pikka> yes
13:39:09  <Pikka> but not one I'm interested in
13:39:22  * Pikka should rewrite the feature request without added greebles, perhaps?
13:39:49  <Alberth> or with some clarifications
13:40:26  <Alberth> and it is fine to say that you expect some stuff to happen outside the newgrf, but it should be clear imho
13:40:38  <Pikka> it's a little annoying that you can't edit posts on flyspray
13:40:46  <Pikka> I don't expect anything to happen outside the newgrf :)
13:41:20  <Alberth> the world ends at the newgrf boundary :p
13:42:21  <andythenorth> herp GS.
13:42:32  <andythenorth> is supposed to be completely decoupled from any newgrf
13:42:40  <andythenorth> so 'rewards' would be insanely hard
13:43:15  <Eddi|zuHause> can't possibly be done with some (AI Callback) communication layer
13:44:22  <Pikka> there :)
13:45:06  <Pikka> removed any GS or AI references
13:45:45  <Pikka> and
13:46:00  <Pikka> I requested the wrong one to be closed, oops :)
13:47:04  <Pikka> flysprayman, please fix my mistake, I accidentally requested closure on :O
13:49:38  <Alberth> fixed :)
13:49:55  <Pikka> you typo'd the link in the closure message for 5467 though ;)
13:50:05  <Pikka> 4571 instead of 5471
13:50:14  <andythenorth> everyone should have coffee
13:50:24  * Pikka has had whiskey
13:50:27  <Pikka> coffee would be good
13:50:33  <Alberth> adding a new description to the existing one would have been easier :)
13:50:57  <Pikka> but I can't edit it, and a new description in the comments would be overlooked
13:51:09  <Pikka> or at least, people would not stop paying attention to the distracting stuff :)
13:51:55  <Alberth> thanks for noting my typo
13:56:12  <andythenorth> is whiskey a Brisbane obsession?
13:56:21  <andythenorth> or do I just happen to know whiskey-fanciers?
13:56:34  <Pikka> I thought it was a universal obsession?
13:56:51  <Pinkbeast> Here we are obsessed with whisky
13:56:54  <Pikka> or at least amongst gentlefolk of taste and distinction
13:57:03  <Flygon> Brisbane is full of irishmen
13:57:06  <Flygon> Apperantly
13:57:17  * Flygon is a Victorian... sooo, at least 87% Irish
13:58:07  <Pikka> most brisbanites drink either rum and coke or the cheapest possible beer, in my experience.
13:59:51  <Flygon> When I went to Brisbane... I nearly got ran over by Bicycle taxi's
13:59:58  <Pikka> eddi, a) didn't I already say that, and b) "circumventing the builtin randomisation", GEE THANKS FOR THAT.
14:00:06  <Flygon> My Tram-dodging skills are worthless
14:00:35  <Flygon> But yet
14:00:43  <Flygon> Every single Brisbanite I met was very kind
14:01:38  <Flygon> The lack of Asians was discerning, though
14:01:41  <Flygon> Anyway, dishes time
14:02:24  <Pikka> "The lack of Asians was discerning"?...
14:03:49  <Snail> pikka: concerning your proposal, it would be interesting to put engines in "groups
14:03:50  <Snail> "
14:04:12  <Snail> and then allow company A to have engines of group 1, company B would have engines of group 2 etc
14:05:00  <Pikka> that's basically what I'm proposing it for, Snail
14:05:49  <Snail> next step could be to only have some refits available for certain companies
14:06:21  <Snail> like, in my set, certain vehicles are available in multiple historical companies' liveries (through a refit to "0 passengers")
14:06:22  <Alberth> what worries me a lot is how to handle the dynamics of it; how to decide when to redraw the buy menu?
14:06:32  <andythenorth> "you only get to haul grain, you lucky bugger"
14:06:42  <Snail> so it would be interesting if the same ID would be available for all, but each in-game company would only have certain refits
14:06:43  <andythenorth> "but you have the exclusive contract on it"
14:07:22  <Alberth> andythenorth: \o/
14:07:43  <Alberth> although I prefer hauling woody products :)
14:07:59  <andythenorth> Alberth: see, the newgrf could do that
14:08:07  <Pikka> Snail: you can already do liveries by company, can't you? :)
14:08:18  <andythenorth> but it would be better if GS could control that, for laughs
14:08:33  <andythenorth> but I can't see how it can possibly done in detail
14:08:44  <andythenorth> and it has a bazillion edge cases
14:08:52  <Alberth> obviously, the GS needs an interface to the program bits, and the program gives those bits to the newgrf
14:09:11  <andythenorth> hard to communicate intention though?
14:09:25  <andythenorth> my case is pretty simple, but could explode easily
14:09:32  <Alberth> probably harder than I think :(
14:09:44  <andythenorth> for example, all locomotives might carry a cargo
14:09:50  <andythenorth> so you ban everything but grain for player 1
14:09:55  <andythenorth> and player 1 has no locomotives :P
14:09:59  <Snail> pikka: yes, but, if we restrict some in-game companies to just a few historical liveries, each in-game player would need to have access to just certain liveries. I don't know if that's possible as things are now
14:10:38  <Pikka> Alberth, when to draw the buy menu?  on opening or on a vehicle becoming available or disappearing, as now.
14:10:51  <andythenorth> mark dirty, redraw
14:10:56  <andythenorth> how often does cb fire?
14:11:30  <andythenorth> 256 ticks?
14:11:34  <andythenorth> monthly?
14:11:35  <andythenorth> daily?
14:11:39  <Alberth> Pikka: so eg buying a new engine in the spring only is not possible, eg?
14:11:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: there is already enough dynamics for "redrawing the menu"... it will be exactly like existing mechanics of adding/removing vehicles from the list
14:11:59  <Pinkbeast> "disconcerting" shurely
14:12:05  <Alberth> (fine with me, but that kind of uncertainties make newgrf very complicated to handle
14:12:07  <Pikka> I was going to continue... :P
14:12:19  <andythenorth> distractionals :P
14:12:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: "complicated to handle" is certainly the GRF author's problem to explain it correctly
14:13:00  <Pikka> that yes, it would need updating any time a vehicle changed its callback result.  I don't know how difficult that would be because I don't know the details of how OpenTTD is coded.
14:13:19  <andythenorth> well the vehicle only changes result when cb runs :)
14:13:25  <Pikka> yes
14:13:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the callback should be called in regular intervals (once a month)
14:13:45  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: no, it's an openttd interfacing problem, as the program must handle all possibilities
14:13:49  <andythenorth> needs a news message :P
14:13:50  <Pikka> well, I suppose then it depends what vars you want to be available in the callback
14:14:05  <andythenorth> all of them | fewer
14:14:24  <andythenorth> do we trust newgrf authors to not do batshit crazy stuff with 'all vars' available?
14:14:40  <Pikka> the var I suggested in the feature request, to count vehicles, would mean it happened every time anyone bought or sold a vehicle
14:14:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: no it's not a problem, because if you hook the callback into the function that currently updates the availability, no further flexibility is needed at all
14:14:59  <Eddi|zuHause> all the infrastructure is already there
14:15:19  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: but you don't want to call it unless absolotely necessary
14:15:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: why?
14:15:49  <Alberth> newgrf handling is one of the slowest things in the program
14:16:03  <Eddi|zuHause> for a once-per-month check?
14:16:15  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, once-per-month-per-vehicle
14:16:28  <andythenorth> ugh, imagine a newgrf that chains through the vars of 64 other vehicles before returning a result :P
14:16:33  <Eddi|zuHause> or possibly twice (one in a "prototype mode" and one in a "available mode"
14:17:25  <andythenorth> do it same as industry produce
14:17:37  <andythenorth> 8x month
14:17:44  <andythenorth> but meh, too fine-grained
14:21:10  * Pikka would be happy with the callback running when the list is opened, when a vehicle is introduced or expires, and when the player builds or sells a vehicle.  that would do me.
14:23:00  <Pikka> when /any/ player's vehicle count changes would be a bonus.:)
14:24:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i think that's somewhat overkill.
14:29:20  <Alberth> I don't see the use of that, tbh; it assumes you understand how a user plays the game
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14:32:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you might want a separate "allow purchase" callback that is run when a vehicle is bought
14:34:55  <Pikka> it assumes you understand how a user plays the game?
14:35:33  <Pikka> well, if the vehicle count var was included, you could use it to limit the number of a particular type of vehicle
14:35:52  <Alberth> and how do you know that's good for the user?
14:36:08  <Pikka> gah
14:36:20  <Alberth> maybe I like building on mountains, and your X engine is perfect for it
14:36:44  <Alberth> and now the grf doesn't give me a 4th engine !
14:37:07  <Pikka> now we're back to lakie's "you'll do horrible things to the player" argument
14:37:23  <Alberth> so what is the purpose then?
14:38:09  <Alberth> why can a player only have 3 engines of some type, for example?
14:39:08  <Pikka> well, one potential purpose, as I suggested to mb in the thread, would be to incorporate "set selection" into the gameplay
14:40:03  <Pikka> if the game is that one player has blue engines and one player has green engines, one way to determine which player plays blue and which player plays green that's easier to set up - for the player - than a parameter or whatever would be
14:40:22  <Pikka> for one player to simply build an engine of the colour they wanted, and then they get that colour
14:40:55  <Pikka> but like I've said, I wouldn't be /terribly/ disappointed if these vars didn't make it
14:41:42  <Alberth> so you need vehicle counts of all vehicles of all players in such a case
14:42:05  <Pikka> possibly
14:42:19  <Pikka> I can't really explain why can a player only have 3 engines of some type
14:42:38  <Alberth> neither can I :)
14:42:44  <Pikka> I can't forsee every possible grf that anyone could wish to make, and don't really want to waste much time trying
14:43:55  <Pikka> I'd be very happy with a callback, with a very limited number of vars available, which updated only on window opening and vehicle introduction and expiry, if that's all the OpenTTD devs feel willing or able to provide
14:48:47  <Pikka> Alberth: I'm writing up a precise spec of what I would like in the forum thread right now, give me 10 minutes.
14:49:23  <Eddi|zuHause> "window opening" is not going to happen
14:49:39  <Eddi|zuHause> alone for multiplayer-issues
14:51:21  <Alberth> add a link to the issue, so it can be found again
14:51:28  <Pikka> will do
14:57:49  <Pikka> huh, what do you know
14:57:57  <Pikka> there's only one var to check. :P
14:58:46  <Pikka> maybe a few globals too
14:59:51  <Alberth> I don't know :)
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15:12:54  <Belugas> hello
15:13:28  <Pikka> hello Belugas
15:13:39  <Pikka> how's that?
15:18:34  *** Meechmunchie [~meechmunc@] has joined #openttd
15:19:05  <Meechmunchie> hi =)
15:20:12  <Alberth> hi sir B
15:21:32  <Alberth> Pikka: seems simple enough, although given my lack of knowledge about newgrfs, that does not mean much :)
15:22:22  <Belugas> hello PierreW and Alberth :)
15:26:26  <Belugas> PierreW?  naaaa... Pikka
15:26:36  <Belugas> sorry... wrong tab completion...
15:26:38  <Pikka> him too
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15:39:15  <andythenorth> Pikka: no controversy in that post :)
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15:39:28  <andythenorth> meanwhile, coxx doesn't want to stab me about FISH / Squid
15:39:31  <andythenorth> at least so far :)
15:39:35  <Pikka> how rare
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15:44:02  <andythenorth> Pikka:
15:44:11  <andythenorth> fwiw :)
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15:45:16  <Pikka> fancy
15:46:27  <andythenorth> livestock ship
15:46:58  <andythenorth> refittable capacity.  200 (inhumane), 400 (adequate), 600 (bovine luxury)
15:47:05  <andythenorth> oops, wrong way round :)
15:47:09  <Pikka> yes
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15:57:49  <oskari89> Andythenorth: That's quite nice list of ships :)
15:57:57  <oskari89> Be sure to include them all :)
16:02:31  * Belugas searches for a distortion pedal. one that has a warm and not too aggressive sound
16:02:41  <Belugas> oops... sorry, wrong channel
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16:10:16  <andythenorth> oskari89: that's the 30 limit :)
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16:27:54  <oskari89> Andythenorth: That Huanghai tanker reminds of that ship :)
16:29:12  <oskari89> (Liparus)
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16:32:03  <andythenorth> I won't be coding the submarine + explosion feature ;)
16:32:11  <oskari89> :D
16:33:38  <oskari89> Submarine could be nice for passenger transport, your opponents couldn't see it unless it's on loading/unloading on dock :)
16:34:13  <Eddi|zuHause> everybody knows that submarines are for drug smuggling
16:34:31  <oskari89> And you wouldn't see it yourself too, and don't know where it is, unless you would look at the ship list and click there
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17:14:59  <Alberth> but there is already a submarine in the game
17:15:14  <andythenorth> and an explosion
17:15:20  <andythenorth> ho ho
17:15:32  <andythenorth> I just worked out that I can code NewDisasters specific to industries
17:15:37  <andythenorth> no newgrf spec change needed
17:15:49  <andythenorth> did someone do that in an industry grf already?
17:15:54  <andythenorth> plague of locusts, and crap like that?
17:17:57  <andythenorth> also
17:18:11  <andythenorth> 'your industry closed for 3 months due to statistics made up on the spot'
17:18:30  <NGC3982> Evening
17:18:31  <Alberth> it should be called BOOM, but that does not contain a D :(
17:18:35  <Alberth> evenink
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17:19:10  <Alberth> a thunderbird fly-by :)
17:20:07  <andythenorth> I miss what's so hard about p*kka's cb proposal :P
17:20:16  <andythenorth> conceptually, not the implementation :P
17:20:28  <andythenorth> the aim is in MP, to provide a different set of vehicles to each player
17:20:30  <andythenorth> easy right?
17:21:09  <Alberth> I mostly fail to see the need for newgrf for such a thing
17:22:51  <Alberth> ie, you're hard-coding in the set that your set may only be used by one player, instead of letting a higher level decide that, so the vehicles themselves are more generally usable.
17:23:22  <Alberth> "ie every player can use 2 countries" or whatever
17:23:24  *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@] has joined #openttd
17:23:30  <Alberth> he's back!
17:23:55  <Alberth> Tvel: we've reserved a little parking space to the right that
17:23:58  <Alberth> *there
17:24:24  <Tvel> Uh?
17:25:10  <Alberth>  you flew over one time earlier :)
17:26:15  * Alberth goes hunting some food
17:26:42  <Tvel> Oh yeah, Windows crashed really strange.
17:28:34  <Tvel> In the middle of something important of course
17:29:39  <Eddi|zuHause> everything you do is important...
17:29:57  <oskari89> Windows usually crashes when least expected
17:30:11  <oskari89> And when the most important work is going on, yes
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17:49:40  <andythenorth> Alberth: maybe it shouldn't be a newgrf thing
17:50:02  <andythenorth> but I don't see how openttd would know which vehicles to provide from the grf
17:50:04  <andythenorth> herp
17:50:10  <andythenorth> groups?
17:50:22  <andythenorth> static prop?
17:50:31  <andythenorth> not what pikka wants though
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17:50:46  <andythenorth> 'this vehicle is in group xyz'
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18:29:56  <Alberth> isn't that just another form of the difficulties of communication between GS and NewGRF ?
18:30:36  <andythenorth> yes absolutely
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18:58:00  <Alberth> o/
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19:15:33  <LordAro> \o
19:21:56  <planetmaker> moin
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19:39:15  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24988 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-02-11 18:49:03 UTC)
19:39:16  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:39:17  <DorpsGek> greek - 53 changes by Evropi
19:39:18  <DorpsGek> hebrew - 24 changes by yitzc
19:39:19  <DorpsGek> hungarian - 1 changes by IPG
19:39:20  <DorpsGek> korean - 1 changes by telk5093
19:39:21  <DorpsGek> slovak - 10 changes by greem
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19:47:50  <andythenorth> ho ho
19:48:06  <andythenorth> bikeshedding, but new forum topic for Squid, or retitle FISH topic?
19:49:19  <planetmaker> squid = fish2? Or what?
19:49:37  <planetmaker> and... why?
19:52:03  <andythenorth> why change the direction of the set, or why arse about changing the name of a well known newgrf? :)
19:54:37  <Alberth> call it hsif  :)
19:55:58  <andythenorth> pronounceable :P
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19:57:32  <planetmaker> well... I know what made you use the big wood cutter on your sets... not sure I completely agree with the reasons, but not my decision
19:58:09  <planetmaker> thus renaming depends on whether you consider it to fill the same NewGRF nieche or rather not
19:58:21  <Alberth> srif is worse to pronounce :p
19:59:35  <planetmaker> andythenorth, the difference is: P1kka makes new sets (or so I understand) and designing them from scratch. Thus cutting away vehicles doesn't ... cut it ;-)
19:59:44  <Alberth> andythenorth: new topic iff you won't change a bit in fish from now until forever, imho
19:59:55  <planetmaker> yes ^
20:00:31  <andythenorth> I guess the reason I consider leaving FISH separate is that someone else might pick it up
20:00:46  <Prof_Frink> Super happy integrated transport set.
20:01:06  <andythenorth> you should do one for GIGGLES too
20:01:11  <andythenorth> they could go together
20:01:21  <planetmaker> giggles?
20:01:28  <Alberth> FISH would be more findable at the forum when you make a new topic
20:01:39  <andythenorth> yeah
20:01:43  <planetmaker> yes, if you do a re-disgin, give the baby a new name
20:01:46  <planetmaker> *design
20:01:50  <andythenorth> I kind of worry about 'where did FISH go'
20:02:02  <andythenorth> just renaming FISH is kind of silly imho
20:02:07  <planetmaker> quite
20:02:11  <Alberth> it didn't go anywhere, it's still there, isn't it?
20:02:50  <andythenorth> yes
20:03:04  <andythenorth> I'm also going to *not* make the new incompatible
20:03:12  <andythenorth> and I'm going to rename all ships to reduce confusion
20:03:16  <andythenorth> so they could be used together
20:03:18  <planetmaker> if you want to make NewGRFs in the onion shape: start new ones. completely new ones
20:03:47  <andythenorth> well
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20:04:07  <andythenorth> I would, but drawing ships is so painful
20:04:20  <planetmaker> No-one said you can't re-use some graphics ;-)
20:04:30  <andythenorth> oh well
20:04:37  <andythenorth> so squid - started with clean sheet of paper
20:04:51  <andythenorth> some of the graphics and stats are same / similar
20:04:55  <andythenorth> some are not
20:04:56  *** ntoskrnl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:07:15  <andythenorth> bearing in mind also that Squid is a rethink of FISH 2
20:07:28  <andythenorth> which was quite different to FISH, and quite...poorly designed
20:09:39  <Alberth> so it's actually fish 3 :)
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20:11:45  <Wolf01> snowy hello
20:11:50  <Supercheese> Salvete
20:11:56  <planetmaker> hi Supercheese
20:12:07  <supermop> hi
20:12:16  <Alberth> hi Wolf01
20:12:50  <andythenorth> Alberth: only if Toy Story is really Toy Story 2 :P
20:12:53  <Alberth> it's snowing here too, but very slowly, you can count the snow flakes
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20:15:17  *** xT2 is now known as ST2
20:15:54  <Terkhen> hello
20:16:02  <Alberth> hello Terkhen
20:20:02  <__ln__> i just watched Inglourious Basterds... it's mostly in german and french, less than half of it in english. did they dub it for the US or UK?
20:21:18  <planetmaker> It snowed somewhat all weekend. Rather less than more. But enough to make driving somewhat painful on Saturday. But got better the more we got away from home... though near Vienna it snowed quite a bit, too
20:24:22  <__ln__> and now for some chemistry:
20:26:48  <Markk> __ln__: :D
20:26:53  <Markk> Nomnomnom
20:27:08  <planetmaker> outch, __ln__ :-)
20:31:12  <Supercheese> That is some expensive cereal
20:32:14  * andythenorth pub
20:32:25  <andythenorth> is it Calamari Time?
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21:04:15  <Supercheese> Push/pull trians eh
21:04:18  <Supercheese> trains*
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21:32:54  <fjb_mobile> Moin.
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23:25:20  <Eddi|zuHause> [11.02.2013 20:08] <Alberth> srif is worse to pronounce :p <-- actually i find it easier :)
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23:26:46  <NGC3982> id law to pruneunse stoofs.
23:27:11  <Bad_Brett> are there any childsprite experts here?
23:28:00  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: english only! :p
23:28:07  <NGC3982> hey u lol
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23:29:56  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:30:04  <andythenorth> Squid, Salt and Chili
23:30:27  <NGC3982> That does not sound like your average recipe, no.
23:30:30  <Eddi|zuHause> let me know when you arrived at Mett
23:31:15  <andythenorth> ^^ not a newgrf :P
23:31:19  <andythenorth> ate it
23:31:29  <andythenorth> very very good
23:31:46  <Supercheese> Bad_Brett: childsprites are annoying. Workable, but annoying
23:32:01  <Eddi|zuHause> typically doesn't include horse meat either :p
23:32:03  <Supercheese> Well, sprite alignment in general
23:32:20  * andythenorth -> bed
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23:32:53  <Eddi|zuHause> *miau*
23:32:54  <Bad_Brett> are you talking about rigor mortis stew?
23:34:54  <Bad_Brett> Supercheese: the x-offsets are working but the y-offsets are messed up. i set the y-offset to 0 for all sprites but i still couldn't find a pattern
23:35:20  <Supercheese> Yeah, I found the same problem when doing my object set
23:35:30  *** pjpe [] has joined #openttd
23:35:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: if you run over a deer and don't report it, it's a crime over here
23:36:01  <Supercheese> You can kind of cheat by adjusting the actual spriteset offsets rather than the spritelayout offsets
23:36:12  <Supercheese> since spriteset offsets are much saner
23:36:21  <Bad_Brett> Yeah, but we live in Europe :)
23:36:28  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:36:51  <Eddi|zuHause> especially if you take it home...
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23:38:47  <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: I though it was a crime not to report if you hit a (larger) animal with your car
23:39:10  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i said
23:39:11  <Bad_Brett> i haven't even set the spritelayout offsets...
23:39:26  <NGC3982> Mew mew mew meuew.
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23:39:31  <Zuu> Ah, I missed the "don't"' :-)
23:39:45  <NGC3982> Cat in a Mac, Opus I by NGC3982.
23:40:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Cam in iMac is a palindrome
23:40:38  <NGC3982> Cum in iMuc?
23:41:17  <Bad_Brett> most apple fans do that every day
23:41:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm really glad i don't know (of) any such people :p
23:41:59  * NGC3982 breaks into the business as a classical composer.
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