Log for #openttd on 14th February 2013:
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06:50:00  <__ln__> but they use helium, what a waste of natural resources
06:57:27  <Flygon> I'm more of a hydrogen guy myself
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07:20:43  <Supercheese> FAA probably won't let them use anything other than helium
07:20:49  <Supercheese> silly regulations
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07:44:27  <peter1138> less of a waste than bloody party helium balloons
07:49:03  <Pikka> partly balloons
07:50:55  <NGC3982> Morning.
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08:11:25  <andythenorth> mornings and pikkas
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08:12:33  <Supercheese> Bridges-over-stations not in trunk yet? :<
08:13:21  <Pikka> morning and y
08:15:28  <Pikka> duh, how do I pay attention
08:15:50  <Supercheese> Cash or check
08:15:58  <Supercheese> I don't think credit cards will work
08:16:00  <Supercheese> :P
08:16:05  <Pikka> I set a value to random 1,240 and then a couple of lines later clamp it to max 100.
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08:24:00  <andythenorth> :P
08:27:37  <andythenorth> "the rules have to change"
08:27:41  <andythenorth> really?
08:27:46  <andythenorth> blah blah blah
08:27:48  <Pikka> apparently
08:27:52  <Pikka> yes, that's what I said
08:28:34  <andythenorth> amendment to ToS: if those with root on the mysql DB think you're being a dick, they can remove your grf.  Arguing will result in termination of your account and refund of all monies paid.
08:28:41  <andythenorth> otherwise
08:28:49  <andythenorth> good luck defining what's allowed and what's not
08:28:55  <Pikka> exactly
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08:29:29  <andythenorth> I don't like all this Daily Mail "Something must be done" crap
08:29:40  <Pikka> well
08:29:52  <Pikka> idiots gonna idio
08:30:20  <andythenorth> well
08:30:22  <andythenorth> yes
08:30:42  <andythenorth> someone has to
08:30:54  <andythenorth> otherwise there would be a worldwide shorrrrtage
08:31:00  <Pikka> yes
08:32:01  <andythenorth> then the price would rise
08:32:03  <andythenorth> terrible
08:32:11  <andythenorth> we'd have to have export restrictions
08:32:25  <Pikka> Idiot Weekly, Price 2d?
08:33:10  <andythenorth> cheap at twice the price
08:33:17  <Pikka> at least!
08:37:21  <Twofish> what are you talking about?
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08:51:47  <andythenorth> the global market for idiocy of course
08:51:55  <andythenorth> is there a shortage?
08:51:57  <andythenorth> a surplus?
08:52:03  <andythenorth> these are important questions of the moment
08:53:31  <Supercheese> I believe Einstein made the definitive statement on the idiocy market
08:53:38  <Pikka> better put it into my industry set
08:53:47  <Pikka> are idiots bulk or piece?
08:53:59  <Supercheese> hazardous
08:54:05  <Supercheese> there's a cargo class for that, no?
08:54:21  <Supercheese> bitmask(hazardous, livestock)
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08:54:59  <Pikka> transport idiots to the forum
08:55:07  <Pikka> produces large amounts of hazardous liquid
08:55:10  <Pikka> sounds about right
08:56:33  <Supercheese> bitmask(CC_HAZARDOUS , CC_SPECIAL)
09:03:30  <Pikka> mmm
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09:03:41  <Pikka> UKRS2 running cost code was 150 lines long
09:03:49  <Pikka> 10CC running cost code is 3 lines long
09:04:16  <andythenorth> but are they 3 really long lines? o_O
09:04:22  <Pikka> nope
09:04:25  <andythenorth> could chain a lot of advanced varact 2 :P
09:05:56  <Pikka> UKRS2 running cost code is incredibly "realistic", and has different code for steam, diesel and electric
09:06:22  <Pikka> 10CC is sensible, trains are cheap when they're not moving and expensive when they are.
09:06:55  <Pikka> overall outcome, probably 95% the same
09:07:06  <Pikka> in gameplay terms
09:07:35  <peter1138> KISS
09:07:52  <Pikka> ish
09:08:05  <Pikka> I wonder if my industries are simple enough :)
09:08:12  <andythenorth> cargo in, cargo out
09:08:23  <Pikka> too simple :P
09:08:39  <andythenorth> cargo in * wastage = cargo out
09:09:32  <andythenorth> for secondary, what have you been able to invent that's complicated? o_O
09:11:16  <Pikka>
09:11:22  <Pikka> nothing much
09:11:46  <Pikka> just the way it handles stockpiling and production rate, which is much smoother than the old version
09:11:51  <Pikka> also the way industries shut down
09:12:23  <Pikka> default secondary industries tell you 1 month before disappearing
09:12:44  <andythenorth> hah hah
09:12:46  <Pikka> mine tell you five years in advance, and if you establish good supply you can stop them closing down.
09:12:46  <andythenorth> awesome
09:12:53  <andythenorth> I can absolutely grief you in MP
09:13:02  <andythenorth> in which case you should stop playing with me :)
09:13:02  <Pikka> yes, you can
09:13:29  <Pikka> you can knock the bottom out of the coal market and decrease coal mine production across the map by funding more coal mines :)
09:13:46  <Pikka> however
09:13:52  <Pikka> my coal mines like to cluster together
09:13:54  <andythenorth> so the amount of production per map is relatively constant?
09:14:11  <Pikka> so there's a reasonable chance that the new mines you prospect will pop up next to the one I'm already serving ;)
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09:14:47  <Pikka> I don't know about constant, but yes, the industries all affect each other
09:14:55  <Pikka> you can also increase coal mine production by building power stations
09:15:18  <andythenorth> it's like a fake market economy
09:15:27  <Pikka> yep
09:15:28  <andythenorth> or a planned one
09:15:39  <Pikka> but a /lot/ simpler than I'd originally intended ;)
09:15:40  <andythenorth> capunism
09:15:49  <andythenorth> comitulism
09:16:17  <andythenorth> is it done yet?
09:16:21  <andythenorth> where is server?
09:16:25  <Pikka> :]
09:16:38  <Pikka> 2 down (except the graphics), howevermany to go.
09:16:53  <andythenorth> well why are you here talking to me then? :P
09:17:02  * andythenorth gtg anyway
09:17:07  <Pikka> me too
09:17:09  <Pikka> latarz
09:17:13  <andythenorth> next times
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09:18:54  <Supercheese> I implemented variable running costs, and just made the vehicles' running costs decrease to 1/4 when speed = 0
09:19:14  <Supercheese> Is that more or less what 10CC is doing?
09:21:18  <Supercheese> Oops, did notice people had left... I should sleep too
09:21:22  <Supercheese> 'night
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09:53:19  <peter1138> kamnet you are a fucking derp
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09:58:57  <__ln__> @seen kamnet
09:58:58  <DorpsGek> __ln__: kamnet was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 5 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <kamnet> I tried to create an 8k*8k map once. I gave up on the generation after 20 minutes. :D
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10:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause> "Draap Trading Ltd is a Cypriot-registered company, run from the Antwerp area of Belgium, and owned by an offshore vehicle based in the British Virgin Islands. Draap spelled backwards is the Dutch word for horse."
10:34:05  <planetmaker> moin
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10:58:48  <MNIM> Eddi|zuHause: that sounds like it's got more behind it
10:59:55  <Eddi|zuHause> it's either a really crazy conspiracy theory or the key player behind the horse meat scandal
11:00:41  <MNIM> lol
11:00:59  <MNIM> that explains a lot
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11:56:09  <Pikka> there's a lot of it about, peter1138
11:56:10  <DorpsGek> Commit by matthijs :: r24991 trunk/src/table/settings.h.preamble (2013-02-14 11:06:01 UTC)
11:56:11  <DorpsGek> -Doc: Clarify comments regarding settings macros.
11:56:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by matthijs :: r24992 /trunk/src/video (sdl_v.cpp sdl_v.h) (2013-02-14 11:06:06 UTC)
11:56:18  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: [SDL] Make CreateMainSurface and PollEvent private methods instead of static functions.
11:56:25  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by matthijs :: r24993 /trunk/src (sdl.h video/sdl_v.cpp) (2013-02-14 11:06:12 UTC)
11:56:26  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Fix: [SDL] Improve 8bpp hardware palette support. Instead of always requesting SDL_HWPALETTE, it is now only done for 8bp blitters in fullscreen mode.
11:56:27  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain:   - This fixes 32bpp blitters on 8bpp X11, which would only render garbage with SDL_HWPALETTE.
11:56:28  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain:   - This prevents the colors of other applications from being messed up when running a 8bpp blitter on a 8bpp system.
11:56:29  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain:   - When running a 8bpp blitter on an 8bpp system without SDL_HWPALETTE (e.g., in windowed mode), this uses a new shadow surface with color approximation.
11:56:30  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...)
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11:58:17  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Why is dorpsgek prefixing its messages with your name?
12:00:56  <MNIM> because TrueBrain.
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12:13:37  <Pikka> should've left that thread as blah blah blah :)
12:14:13  <andythenorth> oh goody
12:14:17  <andythenorth> it's now a wall of text
12:14:23  <andythenorth> can I have a cookie for predicting that?
12:14:41  <andythenorth> forums should enforce linebreaks after n words
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12:18:22  <andythenorth> MB is funny :)
12:18:48  <andythenorth> Pikka: change the title back, I am confused
12:18:58  <andythenorth> it currently suggests something useful, or even informational
12:19:05  <andythenorth> blah blah blah is more proper
12:19:52  <dihedral> hey hey#
12:24:11  <andythenorth> daylength
12:24:15  <andythenorth> blah blah blah blah blah
12:24:23  <andythenorth> how about
12:24:38  <andythenorth> a tool that decompiles a grf, multiplies all dates by (some factor), then recompiles
12:24:46  <andythenorth> done, done, donety done
12:24:59  <andythenorth> and ignore the real dates
12:25:55  <peter1138> heh
12:26:12  <andythenorth> the only valid argument I've ever seen for it is
12:26:18  <andythenorth> "I want to watch the trains for longer"
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12:39:08  <andythenorth>
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12:46:22  <Flygon> andythenorth: I have no idea if that link is NSFW or not
12:47:07  <MNIM> it's sfw\
12:47:08  <peter1138> depends how your workplace sees non-work-related urls
12:49:49  <Flygon> MNIM: I'm referring to the image macro examples near the bottom of the article
12:52:24  <Eddi|zuHause> not NSFW, double negative is an emphasis?
13:00:04  <andythenorth> the forum is currently heavy on walls of text, and light on kitten pictures
13:00:05  <andythenorth> more kittens?
13:00:13  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause can you oblige with photos of your cat?
13:00:28  <andythenorth> cats always cheer peoples up
13:00:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have any available on my computer, currently
13:03:01  <andythenorth> no camera?
13:08:19  <lugo> i'd find this image fitting vefore locking the thread
13:17:39  <andythenorth> hmm
13:19:52  <Pikka> hey guyz I have a great idea
13:19:55  <Pikka> let's fork bananas
13:20:23  <lugo> split!
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13:25:11  <Pikka> andythenorth, I should have kept it in gfx discussion
13:25:23  <Pikka> then I could change the thread title as often as I please. :)
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13:30:13  <andythenorth> well, it's more interesting than BBC news at any rate
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13:38:04  <andythenorth> herp
13:38:15  <andythenorth> so shall I put a 'fake time' parameter into Squid then?
13:38:23  <andythenorth> not hard :P
13:38:43  <andythenorth> 1x 2x 4x
13:39:16  <Pikka> oh, a shipspeed parameter? :)
13:39:32  <Pikka> 1x 1.5x 2x, I'd say.
13:40:41  <andythenorth> I was thinking of fake intro dates :P
13:40:48  <andythenorth> for these daylength nerds :)
13:40:56  <andythenorth> I liked eddi's patch best for daylength
13:40:58  <Pikka> oh, I thought that's what you may have meant
13:40:59  <andythenorth> it was super awesome
13:41:02  <Pikka> and no, you should not
13:41:08  <andythenorth> ok
13:41:10  <Pikka> but shipspeed is a reasonable idea
13:41:14  <andythenorth> everyone can just use eddi's patch
13:41:19  <andythenorth> shipspeed smells of wee
13:41:23  <Pikka> I'm a little worried how my industries will go with ships... but I guess we'll find out
13:41:29  <Pikka> FINE
13:41:30  <Pikka> don't then
13:41:34  <andythenorth> 38mph barge
13:41:35  <Pikka> goodnight
13:41:38  <andythenorth> :)
13:41:44  <Pikka> turbobarge
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13:41:47  <andythenorth> wake
13:41:53  <MNIM> supersonic ships!
13:42:16  <MNIM> heck, maglev supertankers!
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13:57:08  <peter1138> who what where
14:00:20  <MNIM> the british queen! porno! in a basement!
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14:49:42  <andythenorth>
14:50:47  <peter1138> pom te pom te pom
14:52:50  <peter1138> Sign up for quick access to this article
14:52:50  <peter1138> Already registered? Sign in
14:52:50  <peter1138> World’s fastest container ships mothballed
14:52:52  <peter1138> hmm?
14:53:07  <peter1138> what's this, the simuscape of news?
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14:59:44  <planetmaker> that's the new financing model of the FT... signup and get some for free. Pay for increased usage
15:02:23  <Flygon> It's called Australian internet
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15:07:52  <Belugas> hello
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15:12:07  <Flygon> Hi
15:28:53  <Eddi|zuHause> random idea: a town-type "village" that has no growth, and "upgrade to town" and "upgrade to city" option (very expensive)
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15:48:11  <andythenorth> eh?
15:48:20  <andythenorth> peter1138: that story was free for me, first time :P
15:48:22  <andythenorth> silly FT
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15:50:55  <V453000> andythenorth: do you have any checks in firs like "if newgrf = newbridges, use spriteset X, else use spriteset Y" ?
15:51:10  <andythenorth> sprites specific to other newgrfs?
15:51:13  <V453000> I see only incompatible stuff and if (check for setting
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15:51:26  <V453000> yeah I need a little bit different overlays on bridges
15:51:39  <andythenorth> no, generally I would say, fuck that
15:51:39  <V453000> I found this
15:51:43  <andythenorth> but bridges are different
15:51:57  <V453000> can something like if (climate ==  ... be converted to grf == ?
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15:54:33  <V453000> with like output to different spritesets
15:56:03  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: typically, sites like these offer the story "for free" when you open it through a google referrer, but from other referrers it will show the paywall
15:56:22  <andythenorth> how lame
15:59:25  <andythenorth>
15:59:30  <andythenorth> 46knot, 150t cargo
15:59:36  <andythenorth> it's a bit *too* good
15:59:49  <andythenorth> that's 52mph
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16:09:26  <peter1138> DID YOU KNOW
16:09:37  <Eddi|zuHause> NO I DID NOT
16:09:42  <peter1138> I THOUGHT NOT
16:09:45  <V453000> I DIDNT EITHER
16:15:54  <andythenorth> I DID
16:16:08  <V453000> OH
16:18:41  <V453000> wtf are we talking about btw peter1138
16:18:50  <andythenorth> DON'T YOU KNOW?
16:19:01  <V453000> NO
16:19:03  <V453000> IM LOST
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16:25:04  <planetmaker> V453000, you can, of course, set a global variable to one value or another depending on the presence or absence of a certain NewGRF
16:25:13  <planetmaker> And then use that global variable to show one spriteset or another
16:25:32  <planetmaker> But then you also want to make sure to test NewGRF order and not just NewGRF presence ;-)
16:25:40  <V453000> global variable :o
16:26:05  <V453000> uhm ... what is that? :D
16:26:12  <planetmaker> is_newgrf_present = will_be_active(GRFID) or something like that
16:26:20  <planetmaker> and then use is_newgrf_present later on
16:26:49  <V453000> oh
16:26:57  <V453000> I will try something thanks
16:29:42  <planetmaker>
16:29:51  <planetmaker> selecting tree sprite depending on other grf's presence
16:30:13  <V453000> excellent, thank you
16:30:43  <V453000> right and the tree_base_sprite is then used somewhere like in forests
16:31:07  <planetmaker> yes
16:31:45  <V453000> :)
16:32:09  <planetmaker>
16:32:32  <V453000> yarr
16:33:07  <V453000> can the GRF ID shown in the game be used?
16:33:20  <V453000> for newbridges that is 535A0501
16:33:26  <planetmaker> what do you mean?
16:33:31  <V453000> or do I need to convert that somehow?
16:34:06  <V453000> you have if (grf_future_status("DF")) { format
16:34:18  <planetmaker> that's the way you need to write it, yes
16:34:26  <planetmaker> A
16:34:26  <V453000> alright
16:34:37  <V453000> so A...
16:34:43  <V453000> superb :) thanks
16:34:53  <andythenorth> deletey
16:37:50  <andythenorth> calling other people dicks makes me a dick too
16:37:59  <andythenorth> let's not do that :P
16:39:10  <V453000> no you have a strong point there
16:39:40  <V453000> because that is the closest description of the problem there is so far
16:39:43  <V453000> people being dicks
16:39:45  <V453000> is all
16:42:24  <andythenorth> reliability
16:42:50  <V453000> breakdown imminent?
16:43:06  <andythenorth> just wondering
16:43:17  <andythenorth> about making hovercraft unreliable, due to being too fast
16:43:23  <andythenorth> but then...breakdowns off
16:43:29  <V453000> uhmmm you play with breakdowns?
16:43:34  <andythenorth> so I never bother setting reliability
16:43:46  <V453000> reliability is not a factor andy :)
16:43:58  <V453000> I guess all you can do is reducing capacity for ships?
16:44:30  <andythenorth> capacity & speed are the only two stats that really matter
16:44:36  <V453000> yeah
16:44:41  <andythenorth> reliability, cost, running cost are all pointless
16:44:42  <V453000> sucks :) RAIL SHIPS
16:44:50  <andythenorth> strange that we broke the game so much eh?
16:45:28  <V453000> not really that is how the game always was, you either make profit or you dont, how much is just a matter of time you are willing to wait
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16:55:37  <planetmaker> andythenorth, even when you (and me and V) play w/o reliability it does make sense to make it a valuable property for those who play with it
16:55:59  <andythenorth> I play with breakdowns on sometimes
16:56:16  <planetmaker> then you definitely should put that into your consideration
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16:57:44  <SAC> Hi all... do you have an OpenTTD dev around here right now?
16:58:06  <Eddi|zuHause> we have plenty of devs around here, but they only respond to real questions
16:58:30  <SAC> What's that suppose to mean?
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16:58:35  <andythenorth> hi SAC
16:58:43  <kormer> You have to fill out a captcha first before asking questions.
16:58:43  <SAC> Hi andy!  :)
16:58:57  <SAC> Okey, sorry to bother you...
16:59:06  <Eddi|zuHause>
16:59:09  <andythenorth> what was the question?
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17:00:07  <V453000> gg
17:00:22  <Eddi|zuHause> that was... unhelpful, i suppose :p
17:00:37  <andythenorth> :rolleyes:
17:00:43  <V453000> anyway, pm: I have this ... is the #define a makefile (or that evil non-windoze stuff) thing or is there a way around it and am I making something horribly wrong?
17:01:51  <Eddi|zuHause> that define doesn't make any sense
17:02:08  <V453000> =( sad panda
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17:02:45  <V453000> lets see if I understand it (apparently not but ye) .. I define a variable bridge_overlay_stuff, which I add a value and then eventually change the vlue with the if?
17:02:47  <Eddi|zuHause> "#define X Y" is a pre-processor directive that says "whenever X stands in the below code, treat it like Y would stand there"
17:02:58  <V453000> o
17:04:09  <andythenorth> hmm
17:04:11  <andythenorth> CPP
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17:05:24  <peter1138> if (reliability_is_not_set_by_andy_the_north) refuse_to_load_grf(bad_gameplaY)
17:05:43  <andythenorth> make it part of the ToS
17:05:45  <V453000> :D
17:06:00  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: remove all GRFs from bananas which don't utilize reliability correctly
17:06:02  <V453000> if trains <3000, deactivate newGRF (not enough madness)
17:06:03  <peter1138> there's no ToS for loading newgrfs
17:06:13  <andythenorth> peter1138: well there fucking should be :o
17:06:18  <andythenorth> oops
17:06:20  <andythenorth> sweary day
17:07:00  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: so the #define is outright wrong
17:07:07  <planetmaker> V453000, just replace the line with #define by
17:07:16  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: yes
17:07:17  <planetmaker> bridge_overlay_stuff = 0
17:07:20  <V453000> o
17:07:26  <SpComb> playing with breakdowns on peter's server wasn't really that bad as such
17:07:36  <planetmaker> you cannot use #define w/o use of gcc preprocessor in this context
17:07:38  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: define is not what you want to do
17:08:02  <SpComb> but being offline while others were playing meant that your trains were always 50 years old and breaking down every five tiles once you returned to the game..
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17:08:11  <planetmaker> and probably you want to use
17:08:15  <andythenorth> it was good for beating Flherne
17:08:19  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you "define" a named parameter by assigning a value to it, like in the line below
17:08:21  <andythenorth> all his trains got slow
17:08:27  <planetmaker> 	bridge_overlay_stuff = 1 two lines further down
17:08:34  <planetmaker> and then in the actual spritesheet use like
17:08:47  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if you can assign a spriteset to a parameter, though
17:09:18  <planetmaker> sprite: (bridge_overlay_stuff ? value for grf present : value for grf not present)
17:09:29  <planetmaker> (if you use default sprites)
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17:09:38  <V453000> I tried and it says error at 356 which is line 4 in the paste
17:09:41  <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc will probably blow up in your face if it's not allowed :)
17:09:46  <planetmaker> if you use your custom spritesets, you can use that variable in a switch decision like any other variable
17:10:17  <V453000> right
17:12:54  <V453000> should be there anything after the sprite(bridge_overlay_stuff ? canalrails_bridge_surfaces_newbridges : canalrails_bridge_surfaces_original) ?
17:13:03  <V453000> if I put ; there ,it sez unexpected token ;
17:13:38  <V453000> oh that doesnt ask about the newgrf anyhow
17:13:39  <V453000> zz
17:14:02  <Eddi|zuHause> you miss a )
17:14:16  <Eddi|zuHause> oh no, there it is
17:14:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea, this is not a magic i have used before
17:15:10  <V453000> sense this makes ? says unexpected token ; at the ternary thingy line
17:15:13  <planetmaker>
17:15:49  <V453000> how simple it is .. :)
17:15:58  <V453000> as always, getting lost in it ... thanks pm :)
17:16:56  <planetmaker> yw :-)
17:17:26  <planetmaker> anyway... gotta go. See you (much) later or tomorrow
17:17:34  <V453000> :) bai
17:19:12  <V453000> hm, what could the grf_present stand for in the switch block
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17:20:07  <V453000> omfg kill me
17:20:09  <V453000> just do
17:20:56  <V453000> nmlc crunching it now :) so happily
17:23:24  <V453000> no way it works :D
17:23:45  <V453000> congratulations, you led the idiot to success again ... thank you :)
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17:54:07  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24994 /trunk/src (12 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-14 17:04:01 UTC)
17:54:08  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Replace access to service_interval with accessors (peter1138)
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17:56:55  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24995 /trunk/src (10 files in 3 dirs) (2013-02-14 17:06:49 UTC)
17:56:56  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Add flags to vehicle service interval for custom & ispercent (peter1138)
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17:59:01  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24996 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-14 17:08:56 UTC)
17:59:02  <DorpsGek> -Change: Apply default service interval changes to vehicles without custom interval (peter1138)
18:01:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24997 /trunk/src (3 files in 3 dirs) (2013-02-14 17:11:42 UTC)
18:01:49  <DorpsGek> -Change: Use dropdown list to select between Default/Days/Percentage (peter1138)
18:02:26  <andythenorth> ho ho ho
18:02:33  <andythenorth> shall we just bin the web interface to Bananas?
18:02:51  <andythenorth> [the public list of content]
18:03:04  <andythenorth>
18:15:01  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24998 /trunk/src (10 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-14 17:24:55 UTC)
18:15:02  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5137]: Set vehicle's service interval is percent flag appropriately on creation (peter1138)
18:19:55  <peter1138> new rage against the machine song
18:19:59  <peter1138> "committing in the name of"
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18:23:56  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why?
18:24:57  <frosch123> why did eddi post such nonsense in my topic?
18:25:07  <frosch123> this is no shunting
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18:25:20  <frosch123> all vehicles in the consist stay in their place
18:25:31  <frosch123> else we have the same complex nonsense as the old reverse flag hack
18:26:02  <frosch123> engines running around a consist, lol? how do you imagine this should work with two engines in the consist?
18:26:09  <frosch123> do you want to add the whole consist to the orders?
18:27:01  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i'm posting this because your patch is a solution to the wrong problem
18:27:32  <frosch123> the patch is meant for dual headed consists
18:27:37  <frosch123> not for shunting steam engines around
18:28:13  <andythenorth> frosch123: it literally is just permitting going backwards yes?
18:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and that is the problem :)
18:28:30  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: shunting is silly
18:28:36  <frosch123> you can barely define it for a single engine
18:28:44  <peter1138> frosch123, yeah, i find i get annoyed when i ask something and they reply about something completely different too :S
18:28:50  <frosch123> so it limits gameplay and turns ottd into a realism game
18:28:57  <frosch123> worst feature ever, i would say
18:30:48  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i know how it works in my head. it's not that complicated... let me try to phrase it in words
18:30:58  <Terkhen> hello
18:35:59  <peter1138> frosch123, first step, remove the flag, second step, don't commit your patch because it "is just useless", third step, ignore them
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18:51:45  <andythenorth> frosch123: do I misunderstand?  Does the reverse patch *require* an articulated vehicle?
18:51:51  <andythenorth> or just a flag on a vehicle?
18:54:19  <frosch123> no?
18:54:37  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i hope that is clearer now...
18:54:55  <frosch123> when i mention articulated parts i only want to point out that articulated parts of engines also count as engines
18:55:04  <frosch123> (while they normally would not)
18:57:30  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: do you realise how complex your suggestion is? and that it completely breaks newgrfs defining graphics depending on the position in the consist?
18:57:44  <Eddi|zuHause> yes-ish
18:58:15  <andythenorth> so I can build some engine
18:58:17  <Eddi|zuHause> but my opinion is that without this, the feature is worthless
18:58:22  <andythenorth> and put a cabbage and the end of the train
18:58:27  <andythenorth> and it will just go backwards
18:58:38  <andythenorth> no need to faff about shuffling newgrf graphics around
18:58:48  <peter1138> andythenorth, something like that
18:58:49  <andythenorth> and / at /s
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18:59:01  <andythenorth> I don't make trains, so my opinion is worthless
18:59:03  <peter1138> but people conflate reversing with some form of shunting
18:59:23  <andythenorth> to me this seems like a way to save newgrf authors writing a whole lot of code
18:59:32  <andythenorth> while adding a teeny-tiny gameplay benefit
19:00:01  <peter1138> personally i find terms like "useless" and "worthless" pretty offensive... and i didn't even write it
19:02:39  <andythenorth> it's definitely fun around here at the moment :)
19:03:25  <andythenorth> a happy place
19:04:23  <peter1138> i guess it would work if you removed though 4x variables
19:04:38  <peter1138> want a different look? use a different id... heh
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19:07:01  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the newgrf stuff can be solved by passing to the newgrf the data how the consist was arranged in the depot, instead of how the consist is arranged currently
19:07:52  <frosch123> if you think that is correct
19:07:54  <Eddi|zuHause> that is in the same spirit as how you keep the old "train was flipped an odd number of times" flag in case of the old behaviour
19:08:00  <frosch123> why would the newgrf not want to access the current layout?
19:08:40  <frosch123> i think you should draw some non-trivial examples, and then realise that the whole suggestion is nonsense
19:08:52  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the newgrf could deduce the current layout by reading the "goes backwards" flag that you introduced, and which backwards-method is applied
19:11:03  * andythenorth bbl
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19:39:23  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24999 /trunk/src/lang (60 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-14 18:49:11 UTC)
19:39:25  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:39:26  <DorpsGek> english_US - 4 changes by Rubidium
19:39:27  <DorpsGek> french - 4 changes by glx
19:39:28  <DorpsGek> greek - 156 changes by Evropi
19:39:29  <DorpsGek> spanish - 5 changes by Terkhen
19:39:30  <DorpsGek> swedish - 9 changes by Joel_A, Zuu
19:39:50  <Superuser> last 500 strings!
19:39:58  <Superuser> had even more amazing progress yesterday
19:40:13  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
19:40:24  <Superuser> actually it may have counted as today, as I was translating late into the night, hence the 156 changes
19:40:39  <Superuser> (I change a lot of strings, but probably not the majority of the ones I go through)
19:41:04  <Superuser> also continuous integration ftw
19:41:24  <Zuu> afaik it show the number of strings that were changed since last sync to svn.
19:41:42  <Zuu> Eg. the last 24 hours.
19:42:12  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25000 branches/1.3/ (2013-02-14 18:52:05 UTC)
19:42:13  <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Branch: time to get this thing done and do some new stuff in trunk
19:42:19  <Superuser> oh okay, 24 changes yesterday
19:42:24  <Superuser> I just checked the svn myself
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19:42:31  <Wolf01> hi o/
19:43:19  <Superuser> and 53 changes 3 days ago
19:43:22  <Superuser> damn I'm good
19:43:38  <Superuser> still, I've probably had more productive periods, but then again, the effort is almost over
19:43:41  <Zuu> Happy 25k :-)
19:43:47  <Superuser> this will be my finest work yet :D
19:44:13  <Superuser> (my OSS translation credentials:
19:46:11  <Supercheese> r25k is 1.3.0 eh?
19:46:49  <Superuser> that said though I have built up a backlog of ~200 strings that need to be checked. Occasionally their original English strings may have to be changed, which is a long and arduous process
19:46:52  <Superuser> sigh
19:46:56  <Terkhen> nope, just the branch
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19:48:07  <Superuser> >svn branching
19:48:10  <Superuser> are you a wizard
19:48:11  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25001 /trunk (9 files in 6 dirs) (2013-02-14 18:58:04 UTC)
19:48:12  <DorpsGek> -Change: heading for 1.4 now
19:48:19  <Superuser> rotfl
19:49:43  <joey8> anyone know how to stop those annoying "Message from the manufacturers" please
19:50:10  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: no, r25k is just splitting the development version from the testing version, which means one of the next commits to that branch will be 1.3.0-RC1
19:50:15  <Superuser> why is vim under windows such a piece of ass
19:50:17  <Superuser> aaarrghhh
19:51:08  <Supercheese> I see
19:51:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: whereas trunk can now move forward with experimental patches, not affecting the testing version's feature freeze (e.g cargodist or more height levels)
19:51:38  <Supercheese> Indeed
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19:52:10  <Supercheese> and Bridges-over-stations :)
19:53:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and for the record, you guys drive me mad with the 5 letter common prefix...
19:54:15  <Eddi|zuHause> (not as mad as people with the same colour talking to each other, though)
19:54:34  <Zuu> Superuser: because you screwed up
19:54:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never had a problem with vim under windows...
19:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause> (or i can't remember)
19:55:28  <V453000> I have never had a problem
19:55:53  <Zuu> The only "issue" I had was to figure out where to put my .vimrc and .gvimrc files.
19:56:20  <Zuu> And that the installer diddn't include the themes that I like so I had to get a theme pack manually.
19:56:45  <Zuu> But both are minor things that can be sorted out.
19:57:06  <Eddi|zuHause> can anyone decipher this message?
19:57:50  <Zuu> Hmm, a link to show unread with a post hashtag. How is that going to work?
19:57:51  <Eddi|zuHause> (i'm guessing it's an automatic translator failure)
19:58:10  <frosch123> joey8: update to 1.3 beta
19:58:17  <frosch123> it has some improvements in that area
19:58:26  <frosch123> you are only offered engines, if you already have similiar ones
19:58:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: no idea, i just copied the link that the forum gave me
19:58:32  <joey8> frosch123➀ ah ha ok thankyou
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19:59:01  <Zuu> For me that give me page 146 in that thread as that is aparently the first new page for me.
20:02:18  <V453000> OMG pikka also has open wagon livestock :DD <3
20:02:19  <V453000> animalz
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20:11:48  <Superuser> should industry names have genders?
20:12:09  <Superuser> also, they are not pluralised anywhere are they?
20:12:18  <Superuser> nah they ain't, otherwise they'd be marked as such derp
20:12:21  <Superuser> so should they?
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20:13:14  <Superuser> What about town buildings? They definitely not, right?
20:13:23  <Eddi|zuHause> the german industry names have geners male/female/neutral/plural
20:14:10  <Eddi|zuHause> *genders
20:14:24  <Superuser> okay
20:14:32  <Eddi|zuHause> (m/w/n/p)
20:14:36  <Superuser> so add plural too? the english originals don't have plural
20:14:57  *** joey8 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:14:59  <Superuser> and plural is not listed for Greek, only m/f/n
20:15:12  <Eddi|zuHause> it's mainly for the founding news message
20:15:26  <Superuser> That still means it's important
20:15:31  <Superuser> should I add plural to greek via the config page?
20:15:31  <Eddi|zuHause> "new forest is planted" but "new oil wells are opened"
20:15:44  <Superuser> or just use {P x y}
20:16:05  <Eddi|zuHause> no, because P needs a number
20:16:18  <Eddi|zuHause> which you don't have, so it won't work
20:16:20  <Superuser> ffuuuu
20:16:42  <Superuser> so we need a p gender I guess?
20:16:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the plural gender worked out very well for german
20:17:37  <Superuser> okay.jpg
20:18:00  <Superuser> dang
20:18:00  <Superuser> this is a disaster
20:18:00  <Superuser> now I'll have to find all the places industry names are used
20:18:00  <Superuser> fuuu
20:18:52  <Superuser> actually nevermind
20:19:12  <Superuser> lol, looking through the industry names, it strikes me that I won't need a plural gender at all
20:19:54  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to find all places that use {G}, not just industry-related
20:19:58  <Superuser> oi shit
20:20:00  <Superuser> I will
20:20:02  <Superuser> fudge
20:20:08  <Superuser> my
20:20:09  <Superuser> life
20:20:20  <Superuser> this will require regex magic
20:20:27  <Superuser> can lng files be edited in a text editor
20:20:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
20:20:40  <Superuser> sigh
20:20:50  <Superuser> I'll have to grep this at some point
20:21:00  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the original .txt file, not the compiled .lng file
20:21:08  <Superuser> this is 5/5 on windows btw
20:21:21  <Superuser> has a funky graphical interface too
20:21:22  <Superuser> ok
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20:38:00  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i think "shunting" doesn't quite mean the same thing that i suggested... "shunting" would involve exchanging wagons beteen consists
20:38:09  <Eddi|zuHause> +w
20:41:24  <peter1138> generally yes
20:41:40  <peter1138> you're talking about detaching the engine, moving it, and reattaching it at the back
20:41:50  <peter1138> which is not technically shunting but i can't think of a suitable word :p
20:43:43  <peter1138> oh the topic was randomly split
20:44:14  <Superuser> ΟΝΛΥ 300 ΛΕΊ΀
20:44:18  <Superuser> ONLY 300 LEFT *
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20:51:46  <Superuser> for STR_FORMAT_DATE_LONG
20:51:56  <Superuser> The English (US) original is '{STRING} {STRING} {NUM}'
20:52:06  <Superuser> the Greek translation (not mine) is '{} {STRING} {NUM}'
20:52:11  <Superuser> should I remove .date?
20:52:16  <V453000> track_overlay[1]	 10	 6 flat and 4 slope sprites. Track without landscape   ----- when are the slope sprites used there? I cannot seem to find when are these done, on slopes underlay applies, on bridges bridge_surfaces apply
20:52:47  <Superuser> oh and nice application of OO, that's one thing you rarely come across :)
20:53:13  <peter1138> V453000, pbs reservation
20:53:22  <V453000> :o
20:53:59  <V453000> thanks
20:55:02  <Superuser> Anyone familiar with my issue? :L
20:55:16  <peter1138> what's the issue?
20:55:18  <Superuser> exactly 100 left btw (string 3804/3904)
20:55:31  <Superuser> <Superuser> for STR_FORMAT_DATE_LONG
20:55:31  <Superuser> <Superuser> The English (US) original is '{STRING} {STRING} {NUM}'
20:55:31  <Superuser> <Superuser> the Greek translation (not mine) is '{} {STRING} {NUM}'
20:55:31  <Superuser> <Superuser> should I remove .date?
20:55:42  <peter1138> is it wrong?
20:55:58  <andythenorth> there's no content in base costs grf
20:56:01  <andythenorth> no trains at all
20:56:06  <andythenorth> it's just a list of numbers
20:56:08  <andythenorth> it should be removed
20:56:13  <andythenorth> from everywhere
20:56:20  <V453000> it has a use?
20:56:28  <andythenorth> oops
20:56:30  * andythenorth is being a dick
20:56:35  <Superuser> I have NO clue about what you're on about, andy
20:56:54  <V453000> honestly, yes. If you dont care about the problem then dont fuck the discussion up imo
20:57:06  <V453000> I still love you though andy <3
20:57:20  <V453000> draw ships for me?
20:57:39  <Superuser> so should .date be removed?
20:58:02  <andythenorth> draw your own ships :P
20:58:21  <glx> Superuser: it's a case
20:58:22  <peter1138> Superuser, why should it be removed?
20:58:27  <V453000> worst case scenario :P
20:58:31  <Superuser> because the original doesn't have it
20:58:36  <Superuser> and no, not a case glx
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20:58:38  <peter1138> original doesn't have cases
20:58:42  <Superuser> oh wait it is
20:58:43  <Superuser> derp
20:59:05  <Superuser> sorry for the trouble
20:59:09  <Superuser> okay, last 100 strings!
20:59:40  <andythenorth> would this have been allowed on Nananas?
21:00:05  <peter1138> andythenorth, stfu :p
21:00:16  <andythenorth> about time someone said that
21:00:22  <V453000> :D
21:00:32  <peter1138> andythenorth, you're caring too much for someone who doesn't care :p
21:00:47  <Supercheese> ^
21:01:01  <V453000> ^^
21:01:22  <andythenorth> hmm ok so FISH is nearly 4 years old
21:01:52  <andythenorth> the first post of the thread is quite nice reading
21:01:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's not much different from CETS :)
21:01:55  <andythenorth>
21:02:00  <Supercheese> The problem isn't so much about random faff uploaded to Bananas, as Bananas has lots of faff already
21:02:02  <Eddi|zuHause> (although that is not on bananas yet)
21:02:08  <Supercheese> The problem is the community creating drama drama drama
21:02:23  <andythenorth> herp
21:02:35  <andythenorth> walls of text
21:02:41  <andythenorth> yet it's obvious when someone is being a dick
21:02:52  <andythenorth> I can be a dick and it's obvious in 1-2 lines
21:02:58  <andythenorth> then someone tells me to stfu
21:03:04  <andythenorth> so why loads of drama when someone else is a dick
21:03:06  <andythenorth> back to ships
21:03:18  <Supercheese> lolol
21:03:20  <Supercheese> (reserved)
21:03:26  <Supercheese> Can no longer be edited :|
21:03:32  <andythenorth> wtf is it reserved for eh?
21:03:40  <Supercheese> drama
21:03:49  <V453000> :D
21:03:54  <Superuser> motherfucking
21:03:55  <Superuser> YES
21:03:57  <Superuser> IT'S DONE
21:04:04  <Supercheese> a translation?
21:04:09  <Superuser> Ok I'll masturbate furiously and then sleep, later everyone
21:04:14  <Supercheese> WTMI
21:04:16  <andythenorth> that is lovely
21:04:21  *** Superuser [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:04:23  <Supercheese> W,W,W,WTMI
21:04:25  <V453000> PLAN
21:04:39  <andythenorth> actually not nearly enough
21:04:41  <andythenorth> I wanted pictures
21:04:43  <andythenorth> diagrams
21:04:43  *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:04:48  <andythenorth> video
21:04:52  <Supercheese> -______-
21:05:00  <andythenorth> but mostly diagrams
21:05:05  <Eddi|zuHause> a template maybe? :p
21:05:50  <andythenorth> check list
21:06:09  <V453000> andy are you drunk or yes
21:07:00  <andythenorth> V453000: not at all
21:07:17  <V453000> come on I wanted a moral justification for me to be drunk
21:07:27  <V453000> now I have to stay sober, thank you
21:07:47  <Supercheese> why?
21:07:53  <V453000> though, one thing
21:07:56  <Supercheese> No need for justification
21:07:56  *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@] has joined #openttd
21:08:09  <V453000> HOW in the hell do foundations have effect on the opposite end of the tile :D
21:08:11  *** Flygon [] has joined #openttd
21:08:26  *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@] has quit []
21:09:02  <peter1138> andythenorth, i can't actually do anything about content on bananas anyway
21:09:15  *** Pol [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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21:10:12  <V453000> wtf :D
21:10:26  <V453000> the snow shouldnt be there, as shown on the right tracks, the water is everywhere there
21:10:39  <V453000> when track is on foundation there, it overwrites the tracks :D somehow
21:11:07  <andythenorth> you know that foundations show a pixel or so above the tile?  at least, in my experience they do
21:11:21  <V453000> but this is on the opposite side
21:11:48  <V453000> the snow shouldnt be there?
21:12:04  <V453000> that isnt a foundation, looks like hole in sprites but somehow ... it isnt a hole
21:12:36  <Supercheese> sprite alignment :|
21:12:42  <andythenorth> hmm
21:12:42  <V453000> the foundation is on the left, and under tracks
21:12:42  * Supercheese hates sprite aligning
21:12:48  <andythenorth> could we change the newgrf spec?
21:12:55  <andythenorth> to allow fetching images from remote sources?
21:13:08  <andythenorth> cb: change sprite source
21:13:09  <Supercheese> Someone write a patch that automatically aligns sprites As They Should Be™
21:13:18  <Supercheese> save us a lot of work :D
21:13:27  * andythenorth considers an actual 'advertising grf'
21:13:29  <V453000> hm yeah when I move the sprites 2 pixels right and 1 down, snow disappears
21:13:29  <Supercheese> autodetect "is this sprite a train"
21:13:43  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:13:50  <Supercheese> "is this sprite a unicorn" execute autoalignunicorn subroutine
21:13:59  <andythenorth> I kind of need to trigger fetching a url in system browser when clicking on a tile
21:14:02  <andythenorth> we can do that?
21:14:11  <Supercheese> I think GS can
21:14:16  <Supercheese> clicky clicky
21:14:27  <andythenorth> don't think it can open your browser
21:14:32  <Supercheese> yet
21:14:37  <Supercheese> write a patch
21:14:45  <andythenorth> "Get paid to click ads"
21:14:45  <Supercheese> import code from the newgrf settings window
21:14:46  <andythenorth> :P
21:15:06  <Supercheese> "This vehicle can only be built after clicking on X advertisements"
21:15:13  <Supercheese> "Or solving Y captchas"
21:15:15  <andythenorth> the actual idea I had was a station set that showed lolcats
21:15:20  <andythenorth> and nothing to do with ads
21:15:22  <Supercheese> Nyan nyan
21:15:29  <andythenorth> secret combinations unlock a new cat
21:15:45  <Supercheese> Autoreplace ceiling cat with serious cat
21:15:56  <andythenorth> could be done without fetching them live
21:16:02  <andythenorth> but live would be
21:16:04  <Supercheese> HEQS already has CATs though :P
21:16:08  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:16:16  <andythenorth> good point
21:16:18  <andythenorth> let's move on
21:16:20  <andythenorth> so advertising
21:16:26  <andythenorth> how much shall we charge per click?
21:16:30  <andythenorth> and who gets the money?
21:16:33  <Supercheese> Yes.
21:16:37  <andythenorth> obv. it's my idea so 50% to me
21:16:49  <andythenorth> and 25% to openttd
21:16:53  <andythenorth> 25% to newgrf author?
21:17:08  <andythenorth> fair all round
21:17:44  <Supercheese> I should really stop being lazy and add the extra zoom sprites to my grf
21:17:50  <Supercheese> but... effort... ugh
21:17:52  <andythenorth> being lazy is good
21:18:23  <Supercheese> I think I've modified the OTTD source a dozen times since starting my game last month
21:18:26  <andythenorth> busy people are what cause stuff like the seige of staliningrad
21:18:43  * andythenorth has been adventuring in wikipedia
21:18:52  <Supercheese> It's amazing when you say "I don't like this 'feature'" and you can just browse the code and remove it, and recompile
21:18:57  <V453000> zoom sprites? :d what for
21:19:03  <Supercheese> Because it's "easy"
21:19:07  <V453000> brutal effort for no real gain tbh
21:19:07  <Supercheese> I already have large renders
21:19:21  <V453000> ah well with renders it isnt that much effort
21:19:21  <Supercheese> I "just" need to resize them and add some code
21:19:31  <andythenorth> yeah, that's how staliningrad got started too
21:19:34  <andythenorth> "it will be easy"
21:19:56  <andythenorth> 2m deaths later
21:19:58  <andythenorth> not easy
21:20:18  <andythenorth> be careful, is all I'm saying :P
21:20:29  <Supercheese> does the Dutch station set show passengers on the platforms based on amt of cargo waiting?
21:20:41  <Supercheese> that's become a mandatory feature for my pax-stations
21:20:52  * Supercheese should test
21:20:54  <Supercheese> brb
21:22:40  <andythenorth> so where is pikka at?
21:23:22  <Supercheese> Kanto
21:23:24  <Supercheese> or Johto
21:23:31  <Supercheese> the other regions are faff
21:23:57  <andythenorth> frosch123: semi-serious question - not just being a dick - could trams go backwards, in principle?
21:25:03  <frosch123> road vehicle movement is a lot more complicated
21:25:19  <frosch123> and i would wonder whether the tram should then switch the driving side :p
21:25:21  <andythenorth> and there's no obvious way to switch drive side
21:25:40  <frosch123> what's the point of driving a tram backwards?
21:25:46  <andythenorth> one of the (probably many) annoying things with trams is the loops that have to be built
21:25:47  <frosch123> the vehicles behind it will block the path
21:25:52  <andythenorth> yes
21:25:56  <andythenorth> state machine might be better :P
21:26:01  <andythenorth> in station
21:26:02  <andythenorth> nvm
21:26:03  <andythenorth> silly idea
21:26:21  <andythenorth> back to cooking dinner
21:26:22  <andythenorth> and ships
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21:28:10  <V453000> cook me a cake?
21:28:30  * Supercheese needs the tiles from VAST Objects for VAST Station tiles
21:28:39  <Supercheese> but no stations for NML :<
21:30:29  <frosch123> V453000: do czech also call baking cakes "cooking"?
21:30:47  <V453000> not quite, baking
21:30:51  <V453000> but cooking is general enough
21:30:54  *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@] has joined #openttd
21:31:01  <V453000> also andy wont cook or bake me anything because he is a bitch, so ...
21:32:05  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:32:27  <Supercheese> Dutch stations do not show passengers on the platforms :<
21:32:48  <Supercheese> Too bad, they have awesome sprites
21:33:04  <bb10> you didn't know? dutch people are invisible.
21:33:14  <Supercheese> That would explain a bit :P
21:33:22  <bb10> :D
21:40:16  <andythenorth> people on stations is lame
21:41:06  <Supercheese> what
21:41:23  <V453000> there should be animals, cakes and cats
21:41:32  <V453000> (cats arent  classed as animals)
21:43:06  <andythenorth> that is a good idea
21:43:08  <andythenorth> do a station set
21:43:23  <andythenorth> V453000 really, you should do an industry set
21:43:28  <andythenorth> you are wasting your skills
21:43:29  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> and i would wonder whether the tram should then switch the driving side :p <- yes, just like overtaking vehicles just jump to the other lane (if it's free)
21:43:46  <andythenorth> V453000: ever play zool?
21:44:13  <Eddi|zuHause> (overtaking is not implemented for articulated vehicles yet, afair)
21:44:42  <V453000> andythenorth: I have half complete ;) just no sprites yet
21:44:59  <V453000> never heard of zool tho
21:45:00  <andythenorth>
21:45:06  <andythenorth> cakes and chupa chups and stuff
21:45:10  <andythenorth> and an awesome soundtrack
21:45:22  <V453000> andythenorth: FARM, FARM Adds Real Mayhem
21:47:52  <andythenorth> oh my word
21:47:56  <andythenorth> the most epic soundtrack
21:48:13  <andythenorth> games used to have class
21:48:17  * andythenorth is a grumpy old man
21:49:11  <Supercheese> TTO & TTD soundtracks are still my favorite non-Nintendo-game soundtracks
21:49:25  <V453000> andythenorth:
21:52:41  * andythenorth wonders
21:52:53  <andythenorth> lotus turbo esprit
21:52:58  <andythenorth> can't be hard to recreate
21:53:08  <andythenorth> I used to code games a bit like that in flash
21:53:13  <andythenorth> without corners :P
21:53:19  <andythenorth> never worked out the corners :P
21:54:59  <V453000> oh god :D
21:56:33  <andythenorth> gah
21:56:38  <andythenorth> my flash is blocked by apple :(
21:56:42  <andythenorth> can't play my old games
21:59:18  <V453000> hahaha
22:06:47  <andythenorth> draw me some ships
22:07:10  <andythenorth> V453000: all the dramas gone, let's make a new one
22:08:36  *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:6979:842d] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:09:05  <V453000> wat
22:10:10  <andythenorth> NUTS smells
22:10:14  <andythenorth> and you won't draw me ships
22:10:22  <V453000> OH
22:10:37  <V453000> well it smells so it needs some smelly ships
22:10:49  <V453000> also what kind of fool are you that you think I am going to draw normal ships
22:10:50  <Supercheese> NewFISH will have Livestock ship no? That surely is smelly
22:11:06  <frosch123> fish is smelly on its own
22:11:10  <andythenorth> cheese smells
22:11:14  <Supercheese> Hah, drawing graphics? By hand?
22:11:14  <V453000> esp with livestock shits
22:11:16  <Supercheese> Render them
22:11:20  <andythenorth> loser
22:11:33  <V453000> I want to see a good render for 1x zoom
22:11:42  <Supercheese> You render and then edit
22:11:44  <V453000> the good is important
22:11:54  <Supercheese> You don't just render and say "welp, I'm done"
22:11:55  <V453000> he :)
22:12:12  <andythenorth> Supercheese: you probably do just that :P
22:12:15  <V453000> isnt it easier to draw the silhoulette in the first place?
22:12:20  <Supercheese> Moi? Au contraire!
22:12:30  <andythenorth> Troll!
22:12:32  <Supercheese> Render and then tweak
22:12:46  <Supercheese> I could provide some "before -> after" but meh, effort
22:13:01  <andythenorth> oops, /me remembers not to go too far
22:13:09  <Supercheese> andythetroll
22:13:09  <andythenorth> this is not a place for your mum jokes
22:13:10  <V453000> got some examples? :>
22:13:23  <andythenorth> renders should be banned!
22:13:31  * peter1138 smirks at wallyweb trying to code
22:13:31  <Supercheese> Bye bye Av9
22:13:36  <Supercheese> that's rendered, no?
22:13:38  <Supercheese> Av8 is
22:14:02  <Supercheese> peter1138: trawling Simuscape for more drama?
22:14:17  <peter1138> eh?
22:14:22  <Supercheese> Wallyweb
22:14:31  <Supercheese> Oh new post
22:14:33  <Supercheese> nevermind
22:14:42  <Supercheese> wtf arrays
22:15:05  <andythenorth> I like Wally
22:15:08  <andythenorth> he never gets angry
22:15:12  <andythenorth> he's always a decent chap
22:15:34  <peter1138> yes well
22:15:37  <Supercheese> True enough andy
22:15:42  <andythenorth> his idea is good eh?
22:15:51  <andythenorth> instead of having actual vehicles
22:15:51  <peter1138> thank you for automatically assuming i'm going to go around digging up stuff to cause shit
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22:16:08  <andythenorth> see what you did there?
22:16:10  <V453000> LMFAO car heightmap
22:16:10  <V453000> :DD
22:16:11  <andythenorth> an actual drama :(
22:16:17  <V453000> another thread going to shit :D
22:16:28  <V453000> I blame andy
22:16:29  <andythenorth> natural destination of most threads
22:16:32  <andythenorth> yeah
22:16:39  <Supercheese> Must be drama o'clock again
22:16:45  <Supercheese> My,lookAtTheTime.jpg
22:16:46  <andythenorth> your fault this time
22:16:51  <Supercheese> oh wait, no commas in filenames
22:17:07  <andythenorth> I have to stop being a dick, or this turns into #tycoon
22:17:32  <Supercheese> Moby dick
22:17:33  <Supercheese> FISH
22:17:35  <Supercheese> makes sense
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22:18:26  <V453000> :DDD
22:18:31  <V453000> excellent
22:19:05  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, sir, mister burns.
22:19:18  *** peter1138 [] has joined #openttd
22:19:21  *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ
22:19:21  <peter1138> only joking
22:20:36  <V453000> you missed moby dick
22:20:43  <peter1138> how rude
22:21:26  <Eddi|zuHause> <Supercheese> oh wait, no commas in filenames <- are we still using DOS?
22:21:32  <Supercheese> Windows 7
22:21:35  <Supercheese> Doesn't like commas
22:21:38  <Eddi|zuHause> medieval times...
22:21:45  <Supercheese> Whoops
22:21:47  <Supercheese> I lied
22:21:53  <Rubidium> Supercheese: and the filename CON?
22:22:00  <Supercheese> Disregard
22:22:17  <Supercheese> Typing before testing = bad idea
22:22:36  <peter1138> Rubidium, how dare you commit my unfinished work! revert!
22:22:38  <Eddi|zuHause> on linux, the only thing that is not allowed is a "/", on windows a few more, but i don't remember "," being one of them
22:22:59  <V453000> what, windows accepts , in filenames? :D never tried
22:23:07  <Supercheese> Disallowed characters are \ / * ? : " < > |
22:23:17  <Supercheese> guess commas are fine after all
22:23:29  <peter1138> i love having files with * and ? in
22:24:09  <Eddi|zuHause> files which only differ in cases are "fun" as well on windows ;)
22:24:50  <V453000> dont those match in win?
22:25:07  <frosch123> you cannot beat the madness of dos/win filesystems
22:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: yes, but some evil linuxes might create them anyway, and then windows gets horribly confused by some different directory entries having the same name
22:25:50  <Supercheese> Anyway, Render & Tweak:
22:25:52  <V453000> first time I hear I cant beat madness
22:26:01  <Supercheese> that is how I make most vehicles
22:26:13  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: :))
22:26:34  <frosch123> using a special first character in the filename to mark a file as deleted, and then later realising that you want to allow that character in filenames, and thus using a second special character to represent the first one :)
22:26:58  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:28:28  <V453000> idk if that isnt faster to draw by hand Supercheese :)
22:28:42  <Supercheese> Try drawing 1x 2x and 4x by hand faster
22:28:55  <Supercheese> but anyway speed is not the point
22:28:56  <V453000> 2x and 4x is pointless imo
22:28:57  <Supercheese> I cannot draw
22:28:58  <Supercheese> for shit
22:29:08  <V453000> mhm :) me neither
22:29:19  <frosch123> "The reason, why 0xE5 was chosen for this purpose in 86-DOS is down to the fact, that 8-inch CP/M floppies came pre-formatted with this value filled and so could be used to store files out-of-the box." <- oh, i learned something new
22:29:57  <Supercheese> Besides, there's a very nice OTTD-plugin for Sketchup that makes rendering fast
22:30:47  <Supercheese> Only issue is you can't really render with a transparent background, but that's a fairly minor thing
22:31:07  <V453000> well if the method works for you, its fine :) just looking at zbase makes me really confused why rendering though :)
22:31:09  <Supercheese> GIMP can remove the background color well enough
22:31:19  <V453000> hm :)
22:31:59  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
22:32:44  <V453000> hi moby
22:33:03  <V453000> you gotta admit that joke was excellent
22:33:24  <Supercheese> :D
22:34:45  <andythenorth> 100 pax ferry - how much cargo?  40t?
22:34:48  <andythenorth> is about right I reckon
22:35:39  <V453000> 9000
22:36:01  <andythenorth> at least
22:36:26  <V453000> 9001 minimum
22:36:47  <Supercheese> V453000: No, that's power, not capacity :D
22:37:07  <andythenorth> ratio of mail:pax?
22:37:27  <V453000> ships dont have power ... UNLESS THEY ARE ON RAILS
22:38:06  <Supercheese> Railships
22:38:08  <Supercheese> BRILLIANT
22:38:34  <V453000> howgh
22:38:50  <Supercheese> Is... is that canals-as-railtype?
22:39:02  <V453000> YES :D
22:39:03  <andythenorth> it's awesome
22:39:07  <Supercheese> :D :D :D
22:39:20  <Supercheese> Brilliant
22:39:23  <V453000> coming with NUTS 0.4.8
22:39:34  <frosch123> do you have a trainset with matching nacelles?
22:39:35  <Supercheese>  /want
22:39:41  <V453000> along with A ship, submarine, hovercraft, loch ness, and some other water animals, furballs,...
22:39:50  <Supercheese> There's your diagonal canals, andy
22:40:01  <V453000> haha
22:40:07  <V453000> and no colliding sihps?
22:40:19  <V453000> and what notš
22:40:24  <Supercheese> Ekranoplan !
22:40:29  <Supercheese> Can now be made
22:40:43  <V453000> what is that
22:40:48  <Terkhen> good night
22:40:56  <Supercheese> Although hmm, canals-as-railtypes makes using real water problematic
22:41:01  <V453000> what the fuck is that :D googled
22:41:06  <Supercheese>
22:41:14  <V453000> well you could put canals around them
22:41:15  <Supercheese> Basically aircraft that run over water
22:41:20  <Supercheese> "air"craft
22:41:37  <Supercheese> They can't be made as ships because ships can only go ~80 MPH
22:41:43  <Supercheese> and these things would be faster
22:41:43  <V453000> :D
22:41:54  <Supercheese> BUT they can be made as "trains"
22:42:00  <Supercheese> for canal-railtype
22:42:06  <V453000> well, this is what is coming for next nuts :)
22:42:10  <Supercheese> Whooboy
22:42:26  <Supercheese> Addon-grfs will come shortly
22:42:28  <frosch123> andythenorth: now you can have your articulated tug boats :)
22:42:34  <Supercheese> like those :)
22:42:36  <andythenorth> indeed
22:42:43  <andythenorth> I had better start redesiging Squid
22:43:08  <Supercheese> V453000: just reuse the baseset river-sprites
22:43:10  <Supercheese> ?
22:43:17  <V453000> not using opengfx
22:43:39  <Supercheese> nevermind, whatever works for you then :D
22:43:40  <andythenorth> V453000: just reuse the ones I drew for rivers
22:43:44  <frosch123> Supercheese: the rivers do not have matching sprites for diagonals
22:43:48  <V453000> I think my water looks kind of acceptable for both ttd and opengfx
22:43:50  <Supercheese> right, that
22:44:01  <V453000> I have water drawn already? :D
22:44:03  <NGC3982> Wat
22:44:04  <NGC3982> Oh
22:44:07  <NGC3982> Someone said Oboy.
22:44:16  <Supercheese> "Whooboy"
22:44:17  <andythenorth> ho
22:44:19  <frosch123> [22:54] <V453000> I have water drawn already? :D <- we are used to andy
22:44:21  <andythenorth> diagonal canals
22:44:21  <V453000> all I need now is signal-buoys, tunnels, road crossings
22:44:26  <frosch123> draw stuff, throw it away
22:44:33  <Supercheese> Oh snap, tunnels
22:44:34  <Supercheese> :D
22:44:38  <V453000> :)
22:44:42  <andythenorth> 1 tile locks
22:44:47  <Supercheese> Just disallow road crossings?
22:44:52  <Supercheese> or bridges
22:44:53  <Supercheese> I guess
22:44:57  <andythenorth> really, why not reimplement everything as trains?
22:45:00  <V453000> disallowing road crossings is imo a totally wrong option
22:45:01  <Supercheese> Yeah, bridges
22:45:07  <andythenorth> V453000: fords
22:45:10  <Supercheese> Ooh, they can open/close
22:45:12  <V453000> :D
22:45:22  <V453000> riiight
22:45:32  <V453000> I am going to just make it basic form of worky for now okay :P
22:45:33  <andythenorth> so should I re-do HEQS as trains?
22:45:39  <V453000> YES
22:45:52  <V453000> =D me feels evil
22:45:53  <andythenorth> and BANDIT?
22:45:58  <Supercheese> No no
22:45:59  <V453000> eeevrything
22:46:05  <V453000> also FIRS
22:46:06  <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, make them completely useless
22:46:06  <andythenorth> planes are harder
22:46:07  <Supercheese> Primary advantage of HEQS trams is they can go into city centers
22:46:12  <Supercheese> tracks over the roads
22:46:13  <andythenorth> so can trains
22:46:18  <andythenorth> just bulldoze
22:46:19  <Supercheese> no need to bulldoze half the town
22:46:25  <andythenorth> just station walk
22:46:32  <andythenorth> 30 tile spread, place one tile
22:46:33  <andythenorth> done
22:46:36  <Supercheese> slows down game
22:46:38  <V453000> honestly rail ships are just for the visuals
22:46:41  <Supercheese> although not on my machine
22:46:50  <Supercheese> but some older machines might complain about 30 tile spreads
22:46:53  <V453000> and because I am famous for hating ships
22:46:59  <V453000> for being dumb
22:47:01  <Supercheese> NoClipShips
22:47:04  <Supercheese> clip clip clip
22:47:06  <Eddi|zuHause> ship signals!
22:47:11  <Supercheese> Buoys
22:47:14  <Supercheese> Lighthice
22:47:14  <V453000> yep :)
22:47:16  <Eddi|zuHause> water flowing upwards!
22:47:21  <Supercheese> (clearly the plural for lighthouse)
22:47:23  <V453000> :D yes
22:47:28  <frosch123> water falls and black holes
22:47:37  <frosch123> (did i miss the topic?)
22:47:40  <Supercheese> Subway-canals
22:47:42  <V453000>  I considered making slopes like not normal water, but nO
22:47:46  <andythenorth> frosch123: you are doing fine
22:47:47  <Supercheese> Underground rivers
22:47:48  <andythenorth> make it up
22:48:23  <andythenorth> yeah, so who ever carries coal in a ferry in FISH?
22:48:53  <Supercheese> I carry all coal in barges
22:48:53  <V453000> aaaanyway, prepare for mayhem
22:48:55  <V453000> me -> bed
22:48:56  <V453000> cyas
22:49:03  <Supercheese> vale, dormiture
22:49:20  <andythenorth> Squid is going to have more restrictive refits
22:49:26  <Supercheese> Autorefit
22:49:30  <andythenorth> FISH was mostly 'carry anything, any ship'
22:49:34  <andythenorth> which is highly realistic
22:49:35  <andythenorth> but lame
22:49:37  <Supercheese> that needs to be the same
22:49:41  <andythenorth> nerp
22:49:44  <andythenorth> it's lame
22:49:46  <Supercheese> some ships autorefit 4 times to different cargoes
22:49:51  <Supercheese> as they run about
22:49:57  <andythenorth> yeah, that's nice :)
22:49:59  <andythenorth> not :)
22:50:18  <andythenorth> no more bulk cargos in ferries
22:50:26  <Supercheese> Iron Ore -> Metal -> Goods -> Iron ore again
22:50:34  <andythenorth> that's ok, use a freight ship for that
22:50:39  <andythenorth> freight ships refit any freight
22:50:41  <Supercheese> Yes
22:50:43  <Supercheese> Oh, ok
22:50:57  * Supercheese never uses passenger ships for freight
22:50:58  <andythenorth> ferries refit any pax / mail / express
22:51:00  <Supercheese> that would be silly
22:51:16  <andythenorth> I think ferries refit some farm cargos too
22:51:33  <Supercheese> I tend to use the Labrador Utility for farm cargos
22:51:43  <Supercheese> 18-21 mph, 12t
22:51:51  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:52:03  <Supercheese> Farms only need 56t per 3 months for max prod
22:52:04  <andythenorth> Supercheese: it will be probly 16t or so now, maybe
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22:54:01  <Zuu> V453000: A water-slug. Eg. a wave that travels through the canal.
22:54:06  <Zuu> Or submarine
22:54:18  <V453000> do you really think I would not include water slugs? :P
22:54:29  <Zuu> :-)
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22:57:37  <frosch123> night
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22:57:41  <Supercheese> Sharks as ships
22:57:46  <Supercheese> Whales as ships
22:58:04  <Supercheese> etc.
22:58:16  <V453000> poor moby
22:58:21  <V453000> hauling them wagons
23:05:37  <andythenorth> bed
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23:35:40  <Prof_Frink> Supercheese: Nessie.
23:35:55  <Supercheese> I think Mr. NUTS has that planned
23:36:12  <Supercheese> "V453000	along with A ship, submarine, hovercraft, loch ness, and some other water animals, furballs,..."
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