Log for #openttd on 24th February 2013:
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01:29:17  <Wolf01> 'night
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01:32:00  <Pokka> any OpenTTD forum mods still awake? :)
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01:52:31  <Jasperthecat1> I always go on the forums at 8:00PM. That's when the nightly database backup is running.
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06:51:38  <TigerVIP> hello
06:51:49  <Supercheese> Greetings
06:51:56  <TigerVIP> thanks
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08:51:52  <andythenorth> Pikka: bonsoir
08:53:15  <Pokka> hello andy
08:53:28  * Pokka is banditing around in euro truck simulator 2
08:53:47  <Pokka> why must they drive on the wrong side on the continent? :)
08:56:37  <peter1138> silly isn't it
08:56:45  <Pokka> yes
08:56:54  <peter1138> also you can coast for hundreds of miles with no fuel
08:57:00  <Pokka> then when you want to come back, they give you a french truck to drive, with the steering wheel on the wrong side.
08:57:05  <Pokka> ho ho
08:57:18  <Pokka> andy, I had a thinks
08:57:45  <Pokka> I think I will make my semis in hoqvs non-articulated
08:58:40  <Pokka> they'll be small enough
08:59:17  <Pokka> and I think I'd rather they overtake and be able to use non-drivethrough stations
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09:03:28  <andythenorth> Pokka: your idea is intriguing
09:03:32  <andythenorth> do you have a newsletter?
09:04:31  <andythenorth> BBL
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09:08:35  <mseidl> hello!
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09:18:54  <tracerpt> gooooood morning :F
09:19:04  <tracerpt> or evening
09:19:07  <tracerpt> I get confused
09:21:10  <mseidl> it's morning for me
09:22:44  <tracerpt> theoretically for me also
09:22:54  <tracerpt> but since i didnt sleep
09:23:04  <tracerpt> i think it may still be yesterday
09:23:06  <tracerpt> :)
09:26:09  <mseidl> do you know much about the train signals tracerpt ?
09:26:42  <tracerpt> not much
09:26:48  <tracerpt> I mostly use path signals
09:27:44  <tracerpt> i dont really understand much of the game, i pop in here to try and pickup something
09:27:52  <NGC3982> Morning.
09:27:59  <mseidl> i setup a loading loop but my trains keep getting stuck
09:28:44  <NGC3982> Anything i can help you with?
09:29:39  <mseidl> NGC3982: yeah, hold on, i will show you a pic
09:29:59  <NGC3982> Great.
09:30:22  <mseidl>
09:30:33  <mseidl> you see the loop around ludinghattan?
09:31:14  <tracerpt> give me 1 min
09:31:20  <tracerpt> playing poker at same time
09:31:24  <tracerpt> will see
09:31:28  <tracerpt> morning ngc
09:31:37  <mseidl> i did 1 of those around each trainstation but they keep getting stuck while loading.
09:31:42  <NGC3982> Yes, that looks a bit odd.
09:32:33  <mseidl> do i need to add a block signal if i want to split up the rear track?
09:32:58  <tracerpt> i do mine on a such larger scale that i have trouble figuring out simple layouts
09:33:23  <mseidl> i tried adding another pre/path signal right before the depot but that didn't seem to work as designed
09:33:31  <tracerpt> but seems like the block signals are doing that
09:33:33  <NGC3982> I actually wouldnt know. My sollution would be to not use block signals on two way tracks.
09:33:42  <tracerpt> try using path signals
09:33:53  <tracerpt> let me just close my poker game
09:34:07  <NGC3982> Yes. Two simple two way path signals.
09:34:13  <NGC3982> At least that's what i would do.
09:34:36  <mseidl> i wanted itto be able to store 2 trains on the back side if need be
09:34:47  <mseidl> because what happens is  atrain waits behind another blocking the exit
09:35:23  <NGC3982> "itto"?
09:35:30  <NGC3982> Ah, It to.
09:35:32  <NGC3982> :)
09:35:33  <mseidl> a train waits for a platform blocking the exit, so one train sits in the
09:35:36  <Terkhen> good morning
09:35:54  <mseidl> back side, but none of the trains will leave the platforms because of the train on the backside
09:36:50  <tracerpt>
09:37:00  <tracerpt> try that
09:37:15  <tracerpt> put 2 path signals on those spots (red)
09:37:21  <tracerpt> remove green block signals
09:37:27  <tracerpt> should do the trick
09:37:30  <NGC3982> Yes
09:37:32  <mseidl> tracerpt: i just copied the single station
09:37:58  <mseidl> with asingle line to anothe rstation with the same loop
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09:38:52  <tracerpt> i like larger stuff xD
09:38:53  <tracerpt>
09:39:09  <mseidl> wow
09:39:10  <tracerpt> that line is serving 102 trains now
09:39:18  <mseidl> tracerpt: is that yours?
09:39:27  <tracerpt> about 30 stoping there
09:39:30  <tracerpt> ye
09:39:42  <mseidl> you're at 85 million after 1 years?  what the hell gets served there?
09:40:17  <mseidl> 14*
09:40:41  <tracerpt> im at over 1 billion now
09:40:47  <tracerpt> 2050+-
09:41:01  <tracerpt> thats my first game with FIRS
09:41:27  <tracerpt> I did cheat to remove a mountain
09:41:48  <tracerpt> so u can take out about 5 million from there
09:42:09  <tracerpt> thats just a test game, 1st where i used trainsets and industry stuff
09:42:37  <mseidl> tracerpt: are you mostly focusing on industry stuff?
09:43:04  <tracerpt> its a small map, not much towns
09:43:35  <tracerpt> 1024x256 i think
09:43:47  <tracerpt> but most is industry yes
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09:44:35  <tracerpt> FIRS keeps me busy
09:44:46  <tracerpt> i really liked it
09:45:17  <tracerpt> when i get bored from this game will start a really big map and do it properly
09:45:18  <mseidl> FIRS?
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09:45:49  <tracerpt> adds industries to the game
09:45:51  <tracerpt> wait
09:46:50  <tracerpt> mseidl:
09:47:06  <tracerpt> i would make it confusing if i tried to explain
09:47:51  <andythenorth_> Is that wiki page outdated? O_o
09:49:09  <tracerpt> probably
09:49:13  <tracerpt> :)
09:49:23  <tracerpt> i wouldnt know
09:49:37  <tracerpt> mseidl: ask andy he knows a bit about firs
09:49:39  <tracerpt> :D
09:49:40  <mseidl> oh another question? i see sawmills on the map? but havent found a lumber yard to pick up wood?  did i just miss it somewhere?
09:50:20  <tracerpt> u need to fund them
09:50:24  <Supercheese> Outdated wiki page is outdated
09:50:39  <tracerpt> on the forest patches in the hills
09:51:00  <mseidl> ok
09:51:10  <tracerpt> i dont think they show up in the game by themselves
09:51:18  <tracerpt> if they do i've never seen one
09:51:54  <tracerpt> oh, and when they start taking down trees
09:52:02  <tracerpt> u'll need to plant more
09:52:09  <tracerpt> but its a good investment
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09:52:36  <mseidl> tracerpt: why?
09:52:40  <mseidl> to keep people happy?
09:52:48  <tracerpt> to make money :D
09:53:14  <mseidl> ha
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09:54:19  <andythen_> Outdated wiki page for FIRS :p
09:54:27  <tracerpt> lumber mills will chop down trees around them
09:54:35  <tracerpt> eventually depleting the forest
09:54:40  <tracerpt> then u plant more
09:54:54  <Supercheese> only in tropical vanilla OTTD eh
09:54:55  <tracerpt> keep the $$$ flowing
09:55:07  <tracerpt> lol
09:55:45  <mseidl> tracerpt: what's your general strategy for starting out?
09:55:57  <tracerpt> coal
09:56:05  <Alberth> tracerpt: I stop caring for money once I get more than I can spend
09:56:15  <tracerpt> true
09:56:27  <Alberth> pax is also good, as you have two-way cargo
09:57:01  <tracerpt> i always start by locating a coal mine at medium range from a power station
09:57:22  <mseidl> pax?
09:57:29  <Alberth> coal is easier, I agree, in temperate, at least :p
09:57:29  <tracerpt> passengers
09:57:47  <tracerpt> the tropical one also
09:57:54  <Alberth> in arctic, I usually start with wood
09:57:58  <mseidl> ah
09:58:02  <tracerpt> never played artic
09:58:17  <tracerpt> nor the toy stuff
09:58:28  <mseidl> is there a way to slow down the time too?
09:58:39  <Alberth> and in toyland with batteries and plastic, for the toy factory
09:59:05  <Alberth> mseidl: there are several patches that attempt that, but each has problems
09:59:30  <Alberth> never tried them though
09:59:50  <tracerpt> I'm using a fairly old pc
09:59:51  <Alberth> 5,000,000 years game time seems sufficient to me :)
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10:00:06  <tracerpt> and when overloading firefox with flash stuff
10:00:29  <tracerpt> and running everything else
10:00:35  <tracerpt> poker clients etc
10:00:51  <tracerpt> 1 year may take 5 more seconds to go by
10:01:01  <tracerpt> so i think thats effective lol
10:01:17  <mseidl> is anybody here responsable for  the online js version?
10:01:36  <Supercheese> I don't think the author of that hangs out here
10:01:58  <tracerpt> speaking of online
10:02:18  <tracerpt> how does it works online? competitive?
10:02:21  <tracerpt> work*
10:02:45  <tracerpt> not the js version
10:02:48  <Supercheese> People start a company and build stuff, and transport stuff
10:02:48  <tracerpt> ottd
10:02:57  <Supercheese> multiple people can do that at the same time :P
10:03:07  <NGC3982> I love faceraping.
10:03:07  <Supercheese> it's not very complex unless you make it
10:03:12  <tracerpt> is it persistent?
10:03:33  <tracerpt> or do everyone else needs to be online to get the game resumed
10:03:42  <tracerpt> does*
10:03:51  <NGC3982>
10:04:11  <Supercheese> wat
10:04:17  <mseidl> face raping?
10:04:30  <NGC3982> My girl friend forgot her ipad logged in
10:04:31  <tracerpt> wtf
10:04:34  <tracerpt> lol
10:04:35  <Supercheese> and yes, games on servers are persistent
10:04:46  <Supercheese> they can either keep running or autopause when no one is connected
10:04:49  <mseidl> NGC3982: are you swedish?
10:04:53  <Alberth> tracerpt: depends on server settings, and you can play competition, co-operation, and everything in between
10:04:54  <NGC3982> Yes.
10:05:11  <tracerpt> god morgen :D
10:05:30  <mseidl> guten morgen
10:05:35  <mseidl> ;)
10:05:43  <NGC3982> tracerpt: For instance, i have three dedicated (advertised) servers running, and two out of three servers run only when >1 player is online. The third runs ..Always.
10:06:01  <tracerpt> so if i was to join one of those games
10:06:03  <Supercheese> I forgot about OTTD javascript implementation
10:06:11  <Supercheese> people were like "No way, that's impossible!"
10:06:17  <tracerpt> if it was competitive
10:06:23  <Supercheese> then boom, some virtually anonymous dude implements it
10:06:24  <NGC3982> Wait what.
10:06:35  <NGC3982> Java and OpenTTD?
10:06:40  <NGC3982> Oh, that site?
10:06:45  <tracerpt> i can have someone buy out my company when im not there?
10:06:48  <Supercheese> Well, OTTD-in-browser
10:06:57  <Supercheese> I have no idea what the actual code is, I presume javascript
10:06:58  <mseidl> there are funny bugs
10:07:04  <Supercheese>
10:07:19  <mseidl> i tried to buy a bus but it cost me 7 billion pounds
10:07:30  <NGC3982> tracerpt: Yes, if you are facing bancruptcy, and the configuration of the server allow it.
10:07:46  <Supercheese> Heh, no newgrfs
10:08:15  <mseidl> is anybody working on higher res version of ttd?
10:08:27  <Supercheese> zBase is
10:08:34  <Supercheese> you can download it from Banananananaannas
10:08:49  <NGC3982> The Bananarama.
10:08:53  <Supercheese> Oh, and zBase is the thing, not the person
10:08:55  <tracerpt> 7 billion pounds
10:08:58  <Supercheese> in case that was ambiguous
10:09:06  <tracerpt> u bough the whole tfl buses
10:09:07  <tracerpt> xD
10:09:13  <tracerpt> all the tfl buses
10:09:18  <NGC3982> mseidl: That sounds like three hundred years of inflation in play.
10:10:05  <tracerpt> well i tryed the zbase
10:10:12  <tracerpt> colours are well annoying
10:10:23  <tracerpt> went back to default after 10 minutes
10:10:47  <tracerpt> but i am using the 32bpp trains on my game though
10:10:54  <tracerpt> they do look good
10:10:59  <Rubidium> NGC3982: pff... 300 years is unimaginable, maybe 170 but no more
10:11:58  <NGC3982> Doesn't inflation stop after some time, btw?
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10:12:22  <mseidl> did anybody make a clone of sim city?
10:12:36  <Rubidium> yes
10:12:47  <tracerpt> the original game?
10:12:55  <tracerpt> or the crap they fed us after it? :)
10:13:05  <mseidl> any of them?
10:13:19  <Rubidium>
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10:14:20  <Supercheese> good night
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10:14:40  <tracerpt> gn
10:16:01  <mseidl> good night
10:17:13  <tracerpt> speaking of night
10:17:19  <tracerpt> i should get some sleep
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10:18:54  <sridharan_eee> Hi everybody... May I ask in this forum, is it possible to add train timings to simulate real time schedule for trains running between stations..?
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10:21:31  <tracerpt> hello
10:21:53  <mseidl> night
10:22:00  <mseidl> tracerpt: thanks for your help and NGC3982
10:22:08  <tracerpt> theres a timetable thing on the train orders, but i just use it to set max speed
10:22:17  <tracerpt> yw :)
10:22:51  <tracerpt> i tried to get a jet to fly once a month but failed miserably
10:22:54  <tracerpt> ;)
10:23:48  <tracerpt> sridharan_eee:
10:23:58  <tracerpt> i'm too tired to read
10:24:06  <tracerpt> going to bed :)
10:24:09  <tracerpt> laters all
10:25:20  <sridharan_eee> thank you
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10:27:54  <mseidl> i installed zbase via the download menu and it crashes when loading now
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10:29:41  <mseidl> fixed it
10:30:28  <mseidl> are there any must have grfs?
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10:48:36  <Alberth> mseidl: no
10:48:47  <Alberth> as in, everybody has different favorite ones
10:49:10  <Alberth> it depends on how you play the game
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11:32:49  <Wolf01> moin
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11:44:08  <Alberth> moin
11:44:16  <Alberth> nice changes andy!
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11:48:31  <andythenorth_> Alberth I considered tabs for lang page, would be more usable
11:48:55  <andythenorth_> But needs more js and complicated markup
11:50:21  <andythenorth_> I'm trying to keep this so anyone could hack on it
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11:51:57  <Alberth> :o  a pretty 'upload language' page as well!
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11:52:55  <Alberth> I don't exactly know what to put at that page, tbh
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11:56:21  <Alberth> I find it a waste to dump all strings there, somewhat. Just the names makes it even quite useless imho
11:57:34  <Alberth> perhaps add a link from the project page directly to the string-edit page?  that's what most people would do
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12:10:01  <andythenorth_> Phone irc is poor
12:13:17  <Kjetil> it can't afford food ?
12:13:25  <Alberth> you may want to throw the phone out the window, but that may have a dramatic effect on your ability to irc
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12:55:56  <andythenorth_> Alberth is the intention to host one instance of web translator someshere, or distribute it? Assuming host...?
12:56:34  <Alberth> imho, different sites can make different decisions there
12:57:29  <andythenorth_> Might have licensing shenanigan, some of the libraries I've added are MIT etc, not GPL :)
12:57:30  <Alberth> it's single threading at the moment, so a single instance wouldn't really work now
12:58:07  <andythenorth_> Single threading is not uncommon for python web apps
12:58:30  <Alberth> true, but you better prepare for several instances then, imho
12:58:35  <andythenorth_> Yes
12:59:12  <andythenorth_> Use haproxy or something to farm work to instances
12:59:32  <andythenorth_> But then locking needs considering :)
12:59:50  <Alberth> so we should make more explicit what license holds for which part
13:00:11  <Alberth> perhaps even distributing the 3rd -party data as separate archives
13:00:23  <andythenorth_> When i have my laptop again i can look at the licenses
13:00:56  <Alberth> I considered locking a bit, but decided aginst implementing it now, as the problem is big enough without race conditions :p
13:02:02  <andythenorth_> One thread per xml file :p
13:02:04  <Alberth> I am also still wondering whether files are really the way to go
13:02:20  <andythenorth_> Probably files are bad :)
13:02:35  <andythenorth_> Sqlalchemy might be worth a look
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13:02:58  <andythenorth_> Adapter to sql, makes it act like objects
13:03:11  <andythenorth_> Python
13:03:20  <Alberth> but merging all strings of all projects together also didn't look like a good solution
13:03:56  <Alberth> you mostly need just the base language and the translation you work on
13:05:00  <Alberth> stuff like updating the base language breaks that idea, and initial loading does due to re-generation strings state
13:05:21  <Alberth> the latter is solvable, the latter is harder to fix
13:05:45  <Alberth> euhm, the *former* is harder to fix :)
13:06:50  <frosch123> someone knows some nasty train sets using cargo subtypes? :)
13:08:29  <andythenorth_> Canrail - some of the flat wagons do
13:08:36  <andythenorth_> Nars 2 regearing
13:08:47  <andythenorth_> Db set i assume does
13:09:29  <peter1138> ukrs 1? dunno though
13:11:56  <andythenorth_> Alberth have you implemented any file locking at all yet? :)
13:12:13  <Alberth> no
13:13:03  <andythenorth_> If this was a work project it would just use zodb which is a neat persistent object db for python
13:13:23  <andythenorth_> But nobody in this community will know how to host zodb
13:14:12  <andythenorth_> Writing our own locks etc for files is ... undesirable?
13:15:07  <V453000> frosch123: nuts has cargo subtypes too for passengers/mail/gold :P
13:16:14  <frosch123> really? i guess i never transported those cargos with nuts
13:16:46  <frosch123> are there articulated wagons for gold?
13:19:02  <Alberth> andythenorth_: it is not, but I think the project is complicated enough without threading, currently at least
13:19:31  <V453000> yes frosch123, on maglev
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13:20:12  <andythenorth_> Also it's nice that the project can be run without building deps (db etc)
13:20:53  <Alberth> andythenorth_: another point you could start from is the ProjectMetaData object, which loads/saves/unloads projects
13:21:31  <Alberth> yeah, you can simply copy a file back, restart the server, and try again :)
13:22:53  <Alberth> you could also give each language a file
13:23:30  <Alberth> a project would be a directory then
13:28:01  <andythenorth_> Hmm
13:28:25  <andythenorth_> So my guess is that performance will simply be fine most of the time
13:28:45  <andythenorth_> Low number of concurrent users
13:29:04  <andythenorth_> Relatively simple read / write tasks
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13:33:53  <andythenorth_> Stuff that might chug - like large exports - could be a standalone app reading same files (read only)
13:34:26  <Alberth> I agree
13:35:25  <Alberth> except that I'd pull langfile updates also over http from the application
13:35:47  <Alberth> so you don't need to have file access
13:36:09  <andythenorth_> Wsgi can combine multiple apps trivially afaik btw
13:36:34  <andythenorth_> And yes, i was thinking of curling lang updates for my grfs
13:37:27  <andythenorth_> I might want them as json for more processing though, not just a lang file ;)
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13:38:12  <Alberth> another extension is to make a file format to express what needs to be translated, so translators can download that into a local application
13:38:34  <Alberth> I used json first, but I don't have control over its contents
13:39:10  <Alberth> xml gives me the option of inspecting each node
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13:40:22  <Alberth> unless I write a json parser, of course :)
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13:45:04  <Alberth> btw, do you have a library that converts a time-delta (in number of seconds) to something nicely readable, like "3 weeks ago" ?
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13:46:27  <andythenorth_> I think it's quite trivial to output json from objs - there's a repr module for it iirc
13:46:53  <andythenorth_> Hmm time offsets. Maybe babel can do that?
13:47:22  <Alberth> sure, output is no problem, it's loading it back that I worry about :)
13:47:50  <andythenorth_>
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13:47:57  <Alberth> I looked around a bit, and there are a number of implementation floating around at the new
13:48:12  <andythenorth_> I was going to add babel for time formatting etc
13:48:26  <andythenorth_> Then decided it's overkill
13:48:34  <andythenorth_> Brb
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13:49:39  <andythenorth> real computer
13:49:41  <andythenorth> real keyboard :P
13:50:56  <Alberth> :)
13:51:26  <Alberth> bable does seem overkill unless we're going to translate our application :)
13:51:31  <Alberth> *babel
13:51:54  <Alberth> I am somewhat surprised nobody wrote an implementation for adding to datetime
13:51:54  <andythenorth> it is overkill
13:52:53  <andythenorth> well date1-date2 should work
13:52:54  <Alberth> but all texts and changes have time stamps, which need to be displayed as well
13:53:01  <andythenorth> it's just the formatting is a bit of work
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13:53:28  <andythenorth> claims delta computation
13:53:42  <Alberth> yeah, you don't want   1 year, 5 months, 21 days, 6 hours, 39 minutes and 1 second :)
13:54:05  <Alberth> 17  months is precise enough :)
13:54:58  <andythenorth> that's just a set of 'if blah:' stuff :)
13:55:05  <andythenorth> if we can't find one, I could write it
13:55:08  <andythenorth> later...
13:55:58  <Alberth> k
13:57:47  <Alberth> oh, epydoc makes the .pyc mess
13:58:39  <Alberth> as it's using python2 :)
14:03:05  <andythenorth> wrap it in a script that deletes all .pyc afterwards :P
14:08:31  <Alberth> you added .pyc ignore already :)
14:12:56  <jonty-comp> i swear i'm missing some repos in my brand-new ubuntu install or something
14:13:15  <jonty-comp> first i wanted to install steam, and the wiki said it was in apt, but it wasn't
14:13:30  <jonty-comp> and now i want to install a theme switcher which it also says is in apt but clearly is not
14:14:42  <frosch123> are you sure "steam" would already be in a "stable" ubuntu release?
14:14:51  <frosch123> maybe you need unstable or experimental or whatever
14:15:47  <jonty-comp>
14:16:45  <Alberth> using a mirror repo?
14:16:54  <jonty-comp> ah, that might be it
14:17:03  <jonty-comp> although one would assume the UK mirror has all the packages
14:17:08  * jonty-comp switches to main
14:17:46  <peter1138> in valves world where ubuntu == linux == ubuntu
14:18:09  <jonty-comp> probably because canonical are buying them flowers and promising them millions
14:18:55  <Alberth> more likely because their average unix customer thinks that way :)
14:23:55  <peter1138> "so very special"
14:23:58  <peter1138> aww, radio edits...
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14:28:28  * NGC3982 is on a X51.
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14:52:05  <LordAro> heyo all
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14:57:35  <Generalcamo> Hey, I am having trouble with OpenTTD. I cannot seem to get the MIDI files it plays to go onto the proper MIDI driver
14:57:53  <Generalcamo> It always defaults to the Terrible Windows Driver
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15:03:16  <mseidl> does it make sense to connect small towns with roads?
15:03:18  <mseidl> do they grow faster?
15:03:56  <andythenorth>
15:06:08  <mseidl> thanks andythenorth
15:10:25  <andythenorth> $someone who is bored might consider updating this? o_O
15:10:52  <andythenorth> Pikka how much are limes where you live?
15:12:11  <jonty-comp> oh wow, the nouveau driver did *not* like me opening bbc radio 1
15:12:17  * jonty-comp presses the reset buttan
15:19:52  <mseidl> question, i just grouped a bunch of vehicles together that are too old, and i wanted to replace them all using the replace all , but the button is grayed out?
15:20:04  <peter1138> nobody likes you opening bbc radio 1
15:21:06  <Pokka> limes, andy?
15:25:53  <mseidl> it seems as if there is nothing on the right hand column
15:26:43  <mseidl> to select as a replacement vehicle
15:29:37  <Pokka> maybe you can no longer build vehicles of that type, mseidl?
15:30:07  <NGC3982> Xbox Kinect really sucks.
15:30:19  <Alberth> throw it out the window quickly!
15:30:33  <NGC3982> Seriosly, it's in the Rob the Robot category.
15:30:41  <Pokka> throw it out of the window slowly
15:31:01  <mseidl> Pokka: why?  they are still available in my new vehicle list from the depot all these  trucks are at
15:31:10  <mseidl> NGC3982: why you say that?
15:31:13  <NGC3982> It doesn't even handle a menue.
15:31:32  <NGC3982> Trying several angles, with no or lots of stuff around me, different distances.
15:31:39  <Pokka> maybe you can then
15:31:46  <NGC3982> It is not bad. It's -broken-.
15:31:49  <Pokka> I'd post a screenshot and savegame on the forum :)
15:33:30  <mseidl> are there any must have grfs?
15:34:02  <NGC3982> mseidl: Not really, but personaly, i never play vanilla without the OpenGFX+ NewGRF pack.
15:34:28  <peter1138> is it vanilla with that?
15:34:39  <Pokka> andy: stop stirring
15:34:57  <NGC3982> peter1138: Not ..really. I guess.
15:35:23  <peter1138> my must-have grf: trg1r.grf
15:35:45  <jonty-comp> it has become apparent to me that ubuntu still hates my entirely-normal desktop computer
15:35:49  <Pokka> that grf sucks, per
15:35:53  <Pokka> and peter1138
15:36:12  <andythenorth> Pikka: stirring?  Limes?
15:36:13  <NGC3982> Wha'zat?
15:36:36  <Pokka> stirring simutranscape
15:36:39  <Pokka> and limes?
15:40:20  <Pokka> the limes in climes fall mainly on the rhymes
15:40:35  <peter1138> no u
15:40:59  <Pokka> her too
15:41:53  <peter1138> what's this, FIRS to be removed from bananas and hosted solely on simuscape?
15:42:14  <Pokka> sounds plausible
15:43:41  <Pokka> but mostly advising SAC she should consult mb for advice on the best way to handle content violations :)
15:44:08  <andythenorth> I'm genuine
15:44:23  <Pokka> you're still stirring :P
15:44:37  <andythenorth> nah, I actually think maria is heading into a license headache
15:44:42  <Pokka> and what are these limes I've heard so much about?
15:44:42  <andythenorth> and she'll just end up sad about it
15:44:55  <andythenorth> nothing interesting
15:45:07  <andythenorth> you won't miss anything if you don't click
15:46:42  <peter1138> i'm going to click anyway
15:46:45  <Pokka> eh
15:53:17  * andythenorth teaching the 3 year old Big Trak
15:53:25  <andythenorth> "it's magic"
15:55:53  <Pokka> D:
15:57:11  <Pokka> anyway, what "licence headache"?  It's her stuff, she can choose to do with or not do with it as she likes. :)
15:59:42  <andythenorth> the one where it's a made up license, full of holes?
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16:01:31  <andythenorth> I would rather have a happy team simuscape
16:01:55  <andythenorth> and fewer dramas with the neighbours about who's dog has crapped on the lawn
16:02:04  <andythenorth> whose / who's /s ?
16:02:06  <Pokka> I like my licence
16:02:16  <andythenorth> you should just use WTFPL
16:02:37  <Pokka> I use the opposite :)
16:03:31  <Pokka> largely because I'm not labouring under the illusion that I'm going to sue anyone over TTD graphics
16:03:53  <andythenorth> Team SS should adopt your licence ;)
16:04:22  <andythenorth> what does Michael use?
16:05:54  <Pokka> hmm
16:06:25  <andythenorth> bit confusing
16:06:46  <andythenorth> the DB Set 0.8 copyright notice includes right to distribute
16:08:07  <Kjetil> why can't everyone just be friends ?
16:08:33  <Pokka> who knows :)
16:09:35  <Pokka> you'd better upload it to bananas then, andythenorth
16:09:44  <Pokka> except the bananas ToS says you can't :)
16:12:07  <Pokka> but yes, why can't everyone just be friends?  because entitlement and playing pretend lawyer is more fun than respecting other people's right to do what they want with their own work, probably.
16:14:08  * Pokka well past bedtime :)
16:14:31  <Pokka> goodnight gentlemen and charlies
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16:15:00  <jonty-comp> i take offense at that!
16:15:29  <Kjetil> You are not a friend ?
16:16:39  <Kjetil> Or are you not a gentleman ?
16:17:03  <jonty-comp> that is not for me to decide
16:17:43  <Kjetil> then how can you take offence ?
16:18:39  <__ln__> Kjetil: please, no space in front of the questionmark.
16:19:02  <Kjetil> why ?
16:19:11  <Kjetil> (;
16:19:14  <__ln__> because this channel is english only.
16:19:49  <Kjetil> does it break your head ?
16:20:06  <jonty-comp> i think you are answering your "why can't everyone just be friends" question quite well there
16:20:28  <Kjetil> breaks*
16:20:32  <Kjetil> haha
16:20:32  <jonty-comp> because everyone does something that annoys someone else, no matter how hard they try :P
16:20:43  <frosch123> [16:29] <Kjetil> does it break your head ? <- if in doubt, the reverse smiley did for sure :p
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16:23:23  <Kjetil> -breaks* I guess i broke my own head
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16:44:00  <Generalcamo> OpenTTD uses Pre-Rendered sprites, right?
16:45:09  <__ln__> as opposed to what?
16:45:15  <Generalcamo> Graphics
16:45:31  <__ln__> uses sprites instead of graphics, hmm
16:46:21  <Generalcamo> I would love to model up a train and convert it to sprite form...
16:47:11  <__ln__> the sprites are drawn by hand, pixel by pixel.
16:47:49  <Generalcamo> What? That doesn't fit at all with this thread I am reading...
16:48:37  <frosch123> maybe ln is living 5 years in the past
16:48:44  <frosch123> well, maybe only 2
16:49:04  <__ln__> i am
16:49:15  <Generalcamo> Yeah, it's 3d models..
16:49:22  <__ln__> but that's not as bad as OTTD living 15 years in the past.
16:49:42  <frosch123> i guess the reverse smiley hit you hard
16:49:45  <Generalcamo> And he is 15 years in the past: The original TTD used the same techinique (Only with 3d studio max)
16:50:02  <Generalcamo> From Chris Sawyer's blog..
16:50:03  <__ln__> i'm not offended by reverse smilies
16:50:42  <Generalcamo> How do I create new shell maps though?
16:51:00  <Generalcamo> Because once I am done with this mod, the shellmap will be horribly broken..
16:55:06  <__ln__> so TTD graphics were rendered with 3d studio max, without pixel-by-pixel manual intervetion?
16:55:30  <Generalcamo> They probably used some manual intervention to correct errors, but yes
16:57:43  <Alberth> different people use different techniques to derive unique collections of pixels
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17:30:37  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25040 trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp (2013-02-24 16:40:32 UTC)
17:30:38  <DorpsGek> -Add: a mode to CmdRefitVehicle to preserve the current subtype, also when refitting multiple vehicles.
17:31:57  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25041 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-24 16:41:51 UTC)
17:31:59  <DorpsGek> -Remove [FS#3764-ish]: ordered refit with subtypes, since the cases where it worked were corner cases rather than the general case.
17:32:36  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25042 trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp (2013-02-24 16:42:30 UTC)
17:32:38  <DorpsGek> -Codechange/Fix: Simplify accumulation of refit options; also don't compare GRF local IDs from different GRFs.
17:33:30  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25043 /trunk/src (core/smallvec_type.hpp vehicle_gui.cpp) (2013-02-24 16:43:24 UTC)
17:33:31  <DorpsGek> -Change [FS#3764]: Only display subtypes in the refit GUI which are available for all selected vehicles. Also add a generic list item to refit while keeping the subtypes of individual vehicles.
17:33:51  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25044 trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp (2013-02-24 16:43:45 UTC)
17:33:52  <DorpsGek> -Change: Collapse subtypes in the refit GUI and only expand them after selecting the cargo type.
17:34:18  <frosch123> andythenorth: we should do some tram game in the next week or so
17:34:31  <frosch123> i need to know whether the new refit gui makes sense or is crap :p
17:34:43  <andythenorth> frosch123: I would like to play MP GS later
17:34:58  <andythenorth> if we start setting up a save now, we might be ready by 8pm? :)
17:35:22  <frosch123> ok, i can try that :p
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17:36:08  <wakou2> Hi guys
17:36:36  <wakou2> I have got to about 1990 and passenger/mail carriages are no longer available...
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17:36:56  <wakou2> Any ideas why?
17:37:07  <frosch123> your trainset is broken apparently :p
17:37:15  <Alberth> not upgraded to electric trains?
17:37:24  <frosch123> you can work around it by disabling vehicle retirement
17:38:59  <Alberth>
17:39:28  <wakou2> I am in a sub-arctic game, thee are no electrics! (?)
17:39:45  <Alberth> oh, that's normal
17:39:57  <Alberth> at least for a default game
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17:41:44  <frogzilla> Hello people
17:41:45  <Alberth>   no 'S' climate with 'electric'
17:41:51  <Alberth> @seen people
17:41:51  <DorpsGek> Alberth: I have not seen people.
17:41:57  <frogzilla> Is this the main OpenTTd chat?
17:42:07  <Alberth> yep
17:42:36  <frogzilla> I've figured out a new junction design.
17:42:46  <frogzilla> You can view it here:
17:43:20  <frogzilla> Now could you please tell me whether it's really new or it's just a repetition of a known design?
17:43:42  <Alberth> did you look at the wiki?
17:43:47  <TinoDidriksen> Looks familiar to ones on the wiki.
17:43:51  <Alberth> it has tons of these things
17:44:17  <frogzilla> Yes it does, but nevertheless I couldn't find an identical one on the wiki.
17:44:21  <Alberth> personally, I don't use any of them, as my land is never flat
17:44:40  <frogzilla> It never hurts to flatten the land a bit
17:44:50  <Alberth> it does!  :)
17:45:20  <Alberth> you can post your design on the forum for comments, and/or add it to the wiki if you like
17:45:56  <frogzilla> Also, is it better to make a left-turn branch longer, like in the left quarter of the junction, or to make it shorter, like in the other three quarters?
17:46:08  <wakou2> Is that 'vehicles never expire setting? in advanced/trains?
17:46:18  <frogzilla> No
17:46:36  <frogzilla> That was just an ordinary game in Arctic climate
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17:46:56  <Alberth> wakou2:  should explain the things afaik
17:46:58  <TinoDidriksen> I never saw the point of complex junctions - even very simple solutions will prevent deadlocks.
17:47:02  <frogzilla> In fact, this was year 1968
17:47:09  <wakou2> Alberth:
17:47:14  <wakou2> TY!
17:47:23  <frogzilla> Yes, but good junctions increase throughput
17:48:20  <Alberth> frogzilla: for this kind of questions, you should post it at the forums, there are lots of people obsessed with optimal design of junctions there :)
17:48:46  <frogzilla> Decent junctions, like this one, have no crossings. that way no train EVER blocks the path of a train going in another direction.
17:49:04  <frosch123> for that you forgot to add the priority lines :p
17:49:08  <frogzilla> I don't want to register on a forum just for a couple of questions
17:49:20  <V453000> frogzilla: see if you want to build effectively
17:49:22  <frogzilla> I cannot into priority lines.
17:49:42  <V453000> ?
17:49:43  <frogzilla> And the opennttdcoop designs are way too difficult for me.
17:49:55  <wakou2> Alberth: Git now, ty... Into the 2,000 with steam!
17:50:04  <wakou2> (got it)
17:50:13  <Alberth> frogzilla: ok, perhaps someone else can help you then
17:50:18  <Alberth> wakou2: :)
17:50:38  <frogzilla> At least someone else now knows about my design...
17:50:54  <frogzilla> Ok, goodbye now.
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17:51:04  <V453000> :D
17:51:12  <Alberth> indeed :)
17:51:33  <Alberth> V453000: how long does NUTS have steam?
17:51:42  <V453000> what do you mean
17:52:01  <Alberth> wakou2 seems to be interested in running steam engines well into the 2,000 's  :)
17:52:55  <V453000> vehicles never expire?
17:53:01  <V453000> ah right
17:53:11  <V453000> well the standard steamers are like until 1960
17:53:38  <V453000> but 1960 brings another steamer for monorail, and then there is a strong steamer in 2010, and an express steamer in like 2030
17:56:46  <Alberth> :o monorail already?
17:57:10  <Alberth> I am in 1972, didn't expect it that early :)
17:58:08  <Alberth> it seems I have some track converting to do :)
17:58:24  <Kjetil> If people kept using steamers they would't expire?
18:02:45  <Alberth> Of course, most vehicle sets are based on real life, so if we would only use steam as main form of propulsion today in the entire world, we would not have all these other trains.
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18:13:30  <tracerpt> morning all
18:13:31  <tracerpt> :)
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18:41:13  <andythenorth> frosch123: can we have a FIRS 0.9.3 game with temperate or tropic economy?
18:41:18  <andythenorth> I need to test those economies
18:42:28  <frosch123> i have 0.9.3, but used arctic
18:42:38  <frosch123> but i can also generate tropic
18:42:57  <andythenorth> :)
18:43:07  <andythenorth> arctic works, I'm happy with it, give or take some bugs I fixed
18:43:23  <andythenorth> the others are unknown
18:56:30  <peter1138> hmm, what defines an "ergonomic" keyboard these days?
18:56:42  <frosch123> the price?
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19:04:01  <Jasperthecat1> Anybody here?
19:04:23  <frosch123> we are all driving on the highway
19:05:09  <Jasperthecat1> What?
19:05:19  <Jasperthecat1> Oh.
19:06:33  *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@2002:4d66:7022:0:c87c:711a:c367:8fe4] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:08:16  <frosch123> do you by any chance speak tamil?
19:08:29  <frosch123> actually, reading is more interesting that speaking
19:09:48  <Jasperthecat1> I don't speak that language, I speak English.
19:09:58  <frosch123> how boring
19:10:00  *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@] has joined #openttd
19:10:03  <frosch123> everyone in this channel does that
19:11:32  <Jasperthecat1> I didn't see any features in the changelog of OpenTTD 1.3.0-RC1.
19:11:48  <frosch123> it only lists stuff since beta2
19:11:53  <Jasperthecat1> Oh.
19:12:11  <frosch123> check the wiki for a composed list of everything since 1.2.3
19:12:36  <Jasperthecat1> You said that there is some final features in that beta.
19:12:48  <Jasperthecat1> But, thank you.
19:12:55  <michi_cc> Jasperthecat1: Look again, my changelog has a fat "- Feature" at the top.
19:13:03  <frosch123> yup
19:13:09  <Jasperthecat1> Oh.
19:13:14  <frosch123> technically at line 3 though
19:13:51  <Jasperthecat1> I know, it's a new GFXCrawler feature.
19:15:34  <andythenorth_> Newgrf effect vehicles!
19:15:46  <Jasperthecat1> What vehicles?
19:16:02  <Jasperthecat1> Oh, you mean all of them?
19:16:57  <Jasperthecat1>
19:17:03  <Jasperthecat1> What train is this?
19:17:12  <Jasperthecat1> Nvm.
19:17:22  <peter1138> would it be an SD90MAC?
19:17:24  <Jasperthecat1> SD90MAC's.
19:17:31  <frosch123> let me guess, it's written in the description?
19:17:40  <peter1138> yup
19:17:47  <peter1138> and the in-film title
19:17:48  <Jasperthecat1> I said never mind.
19:18:10  <frosch123> but i want to get the joke without clicking on the link
19:18:34  <Jasperthecat1> I already read the description.
19:19:26  <Jasperthecat1> I have a model railway. But I don't use it.
19:19:46  <frosch123> that's the normal purpose of a model railway
19:20:40  <Jasperthecat1> Parts of the video, the train sounds like an older truck engine.
19:21:48  <Jasperthecat1> Also, what is that marker that shows a number.
19:22:11  <Jasperthecat1> Right by the signals.
19:35:37  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25045 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-02-24 18:45:26 UTC)
19:35:38  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:35:39  <DorpsGek> catalan - 1 changes by bufalo1973
19:35:40  <DorpsGek> korean - 45 changes by telk5093
19:35:41  <DorpsGek> brazilian_portuguese - 7 changes by Tucalipe
19:35:42  <DorpsGek> russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
19:35:43  <DorpsGek> gaelic - 86 changes by
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19:37:47  <frosch123> Alberth: <- i guess that's for you
19:38:13  <Alberth> quite possibly it is :)
19:38:26  *** andythenorth_ [] has joined #openttd
19:38:47  <Alberth> not sure whether I am "any Dutch user" though, I don't even use the Dutch language in games :p
19:41:30  *** Ot [] has joined #openttd
19:41:56  <Ot> hi please could u say me if OTTD runs on 7s by lan?
19:42:35  <Ot> we wanted to try it but we cant join the another one
19:44:43  <frosch123> 7s sounds like a cellphone or similar
19:45:00  <frosch123> in that case you should ask at the place where you got the binary from
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19:46:46  <Ott> so?
19:46:55  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25046 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2013-02-24 18:56:50 UTC)
19:46:56  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Korean genders.
19:47:04  <frosch123> [19:54] <frosch123> 7s sounds like a cellphone or similar
19:47:05  <frosch123> [19:55] <frosch123> in that case you should ask at the place where you got the binary from
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19:57:06  <Ott> thats lan or what do u think?
19:59:07  <Eddi|zuHause> he says that he doesn't know what 7s is.
20:02:41  <andythenorth> frosch123: what nightly version? o_O
20:03:30  <kormer> I'm trying to compile just the standard trunk using MinGW.  Compile goes fine, but I keep getting errors when I run the binary.
20:03:31  <frosch123> todays
20:03:40  <frosch123> r25046
20:03:40  <kormer> crash report:
20:04:49  <frosch123> that tells nothing except your version detection does not work
20:05:41  <kormer> anything else that might help narrow it down?
20:06:30  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- the first google result for "Exception: E1212012"
20:07:32  <Eddi|zuHause> (likely not related at all)
20:08:07  <kormer> yea, I don't think that's it.
20:08:33  <kormer> This is my first time compiling myself, so I may have screwed something up, but I followed the wiki's instructions for the MinGW guide exactly.
20:08:40  <Alberth> start it from the debugger?
20:09:12  <frosch123> Alberth: Terkhen: planetmaker: anyone joining the nocargoal party?
20:09:21  <Alberth> did the configure output look sane
20:09:39  <Alberth> frosch123: there is one?  if so, sure :)
20:10:01  <frosch123> i think andy wants to start in 40 minutes
20:10:13  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean the refitlist test game :)
20:11:42  <Eddi|zuHause> kormer: you could try recompiling with debug symbols "./configure --enable-debug=1", and then run it in the debugger "make run-gdb"
20:11:57  *** Jasperthecat1 [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
20:12:21  <kormer> thanks eddi, I'll try that now, be back in 20minutes...
20:13:13  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also do "--enable-debug=3", that will also disable optimisations
20:14:20  <kormer> ok
20:15:41  <kormer> I shouldn't have to add any other outside files to the directory after a compile do I?
20:16:29  <Eddi|zuHause> no, that should all be handled automatically now
20:23:51  <Alberth> the data files of a baseset would be useful for playing a game :p
20:28:19  <andythenorth> "Strings Status"
20:28:23  <andythenorth> or "Status of Strings"
20:28:24  <andythenorth> ?
20:28:51  <Alberth> I'd prefer the latter
20:28:56  <andythenorth> me too
20:28:57  <Eddi|zuHause> me as well
20:28:58  <andythenorth> that's handy
20:29:08  <Eddi|zuHause> "we have a consensus"
20:39:06  * andythenorth gets the nightly
20:46:15  <oskari89> Andythenorth: Is brewery removed from FIRS trunk? O_o
20:46:22  <andythenorth> no
20:46:26  <oskari89> Since the string gone
20:46:36  <andythenorth> it needs updating ;)
20:46:40  <oskari89> Ok :)
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20:50:35  <kormer> eddi: when I run it with the debugged I get "No available language packs (invalid versions?)"
20:51:15  *** Pensacola [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:51:47  <Alberth> then you didn't build all projects
20:53:19  <kormer> Is that the make bundle command?
20:53:43  <Eddi|zuHause> kormer: then we need the output of your configure and make. something is wrong there but we cannot guess it...
20:54:28  <Alberth> normally just 'make' after ./configure is enough
20:55:38  *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:57:36  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- what the hell is wrong here?
20:57:46  <andythenorth> 404?
20:57:59  <Eddi|zuHause> err...
20:58:41  <Eddi|zuHause> wth?
20:59:08  <Eddi|zuHause> that's something i can't fix
20:59:17  <kormer> config: make:
20:59:39  <kormer> nothing jumps out at me as obvious, but I don't compile often
21:02:00  <andythenorth> MP GS, #openttdcoop.nightly
21:02:43  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25047 trunk/src/lang/dutch.txt (2013-02-24 20:12:37 UTC)
21:02:44  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5483]: Dutch language had a few bogus unicode characters
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21:06:49  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:08:31  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway:
21:12:10  *** goodger [] has joined #openttd
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21:15:09  *** Supercheese [~Password4@] has joined #openttd
21:16:02  <Supercheese> Salvete, amici
21:17:53  <Eddi|zuHause> prosciutto
21:19:52  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
21:20:26  <peter1138> heh, i don't see it :S
21:20:30  <peter1138> (r25047)
21:21:05  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: something like "zero-width space"
21:27:06  <Supercheese> Interesting, collapsed subtypes until cargo selected?
21:27:12  *** valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
21:29:32  <Supercheese> Neat
21:30:00  <Supercheese> Suggestion: Indent the subtype entries
21:30:07  <Supercheese> Make it clearer they're sub-entries
21:33:58  <Supercheese> anyway, very nice feature :)
21:34:24  <peter1138> god damn this keyboard is horrible
21:35:41  <Supercheese> You should get a Logitech G15 (classic version), otherwise known as the Best Keyboard Ever
21:37:22  <Rubidium> pff... those old IBM keyboards were probably even better ;)
21:38:21  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: E1212012 means ERROR, it's our custom stuff
21:39:04  <Eddi|zuHause> sorry, my 1337 skills are somewhat out of shape :p
21:39:16  <NGC3982> Evening.
21:39:22  <NGC3982> Or Afton.
21:40:35  <Eddi|zuHause> everybody should get a Das Keyboard
21:41:01  <peter1138> i want a split keyboard (like MS natural) but with a clicky feel
21:41:06  <peter1138> unpossible, apparently
21:41:47  *** Superuser [] has joined #openttd
21:42:27  <Eddi|zuHause> get a ms natural keyboard from 15 years ago? :p
21:42:32  <peter1138> guess i'll have to get a ms natural 4000
21:42:40  <peter1138> they're not clicky
21:42:40  <Superuser> don't
21:42:41  <peter1138> but
21:42:43  <Superuser> the spacebar is awful
21:42:46  <NGC3982> I might be off, but didn't Keytronic come in split models?
21:42:47  <Supercheese> it's a tra
21:42:50  <Supercheese> trap* even
21:42:52  <Superuser> the keyboard is great, but the spacebar is really stiff
21:42:59  <NGC3982> And Keytronic == "Clicky", afaik.
21:43:09  <peter1138> other people in my office had 4000s but they kept dying
21:43:19  <NGC3982> Horrible, horrible keyboards.
21:43:30  <Superuser> -- enjoy
21:44:28  <Kjetil> keytronic is far from ibm clicky
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21:44:55  <peter1138> there are cherry mx blues about which are reasonable
21:45:07  <peter1138> but only straight
21:45:24  <peter1138> and of course the over-the-top maltrons
21:45:24  <NGC3982> I used to own a 4000, and my finger suffered from the plague, gangrene and AIDS at the same time.
21:45:38  <Superuser> this page by Xah Lee is my bible
21:45:43  <NGC3982> A keyboard that suprised me is the one that ships with the Acer Aspire Revo.
21:45:44  <Superuser> actually Xah Lee is my bible in general xD
21:45:55  <NGC3982> From such a cheap package, the keyboard is fantastic on the fingers.
21:46:34  <peter1138> hmm the 'truely ergonomic' actually exists?
21:46:44  <peter1138> last time i looked it was some kind of vapourware
21:46:51  *** mseidl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:46:57  <NGC3982>
21:46:58  <NGC3982> Harr.
21:47:13  <peter1138> o_O
21:47:15  <peter1138> sexist
21:47:15  <Superuser> haha
21:47:18  <NGC3982>
21:47:19  <NGC3982> That one.
21:47:26  <Superuser> peter has no humour
21:47:29  <Superuser> like whatsoever
21:47:43  <peter1138> that looks aweful
21:47:50  <NGC3982> Yes, it does
21:47:51  <Superuser> yes
21:47:56  <Superuser> no numpad either
21:48:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i totally hate such "designer keyboards"
21:48:02  <peter1138> what are the headphones for?
21:48:03  <NGC3982> But as i said, it is (for some reason) a really good keyboard, key wise.
21:48:09  <Superuser> I mean if you're going to get a normal keyboard, you should at least have a numberpad
21:48:11  <peter1138> (they're too small to be speakers, surely...)
21:48:18  <peter1138> it's also flat
21:48:24  <NGC3982> That keyboard is used for the Aspire Revo, as a HTPC.
21:48:25  <Eddi|zuHause> no key is where it's supposed to be
21:48:27  <NGC3982> Hence, the small size.
21:48:48  <NGC3982> ..As a HTPC keyboard*
21:49:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i throw out such things immediately when i come into an office where i have to type things
21:50:10  <Eddi|zuHause> "can you fix <thing>?" -- "no, i can't type on this keyboard, get me a real one"
21:50:10  <NGC3982> Well, working with a HTPC keyboard is just asking for trouble.
21:50:17  <NGC3982> ;-)
21:50:17  <jonty-comp> i got a tiny wireless keyboard for my HTPC
21:50:34  <jonty-comp> it's really small, which is useful, but the keys are in awful places
21:51:03  <NGC3982> I have gotten used to laptop layouts
21:51:26  <NGC3982> Delete to the far right, for instance.
21:53:20  <glx> backspace is usullay too small too
21:54:44  <NGC3982> I like it.
21:54:54  <jonty-comp> I have gotten used to the small keyboard on my transformer
21:54:54  <NGC3982> Although, i'm no programmer.
21:55:00  <jonty-comp> since it is so bloody useful in every other way
21:55:19  <NGC3982> Also, of relevance:
21:55:23  <Eddi|zuHause> it's bad enough when you sit in front of a new keyboard and don't hit the right letters the first few times, that adjusts rather quickly, but then go searching where the home and end keys have moved to this time?
21:56:38  <NGC3982> I don't know why, but i very rarely use home and end.
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21:57:02  <NGC3982> Oh, well. Whilst typing long things in Irssi, i guess i use them
21:57:14  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't notice how you rely on such keys, until they're not where they belong :p
21:57:20  <NGC3982> That is, every year or so that happends.
21:57:24  <NGC3982> Hehe.
21:57:54  <NGC3982> Actually, i recently noticed that i very rarely write stuff that exceeds the standard Putty width in Windows.
21:58:08  <Supercheese> Home and end are incredible useful
22:01:21  <Supercheese> incredibly*
22:01:30  *** chester_ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:01:41  <Supercheese> I typo "ble"-bly way too often
22:01:49  <Supercheese> :S
22:02:39  <NGC3982> You don't have to worry about linguistic irregularity when i'm around.
22:02:54  <NGC3982> I kan tace kare off dat.
22:03:13  *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:03:21  <Supercheese> The problem is the spellcheck doesn't mark them as incorrect
22:03:37  <NGC3982> What IRC software uses spellcheck?
22:03:40  <jonty-comp> i never realised how much I used pageup/down until I used a Mac
22:03:44  <Supercheese> ChatZilla
22:03:46  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a spellcheck not a grammarcheck
22:03:51  <NGC3982> CatZilla, apparently.
22:03:52  <jonty-comp> and pgup/pgdown don't fecking work in OS X terminal
22:03:56  <jonty-comp> unless you dick around with escape commands
22:03:58  <NGC3982> ..CatZilla.
22:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a valid word, so the spellcheck is correct
22:04:03  <Supercheese> Mrow
22:04:21  <NGC3982> Freud just turned in his grave.
22:04:21  <Eddi|zuHause> whether it's what you meant to write is out of scope :)
22:04:23  <__ln__> jonty-comp: yes they do
22:04:34  <NGC3982> jonty-comp: I hate that.
22:04:37  <NGC3982> __ln__: No?
22:04:43  <jonty-comp> don't on any of my OS X computers
22:04:56  <NGC3982> Unconfigured, Page Up/Down does nothing in a OSX terminal, afaik.
22:05:10  <jonty-comp> and i've used panther, leopard, snow leopard, lion & mountain lion
22:05:16  <jonty-comp> home/end don't work either iirc
22:05:23  <NGC3982> Sure, i guess escape+command is the more classic way of doing stuff like that, but i can't stand it.
22:05:30  <__ln__> try with a modifier, Option, Shift, fn.
22:05:41  <jonty-comp> option+left is home
22:05:44  <NGC3982> Does the normal Linux terminal commands go all the way back to Unix?
22:05:46  <jonty-comp> but then WHY DOES THIS KEYBOARD HAVE A HOME KEY
22:05:52  <jonty-comp> it's still an apple keyboard
22:05:56  <NGC3982> Alt+fX, and so on?
22:06:07  <Eddi|zuHause> everybody knows you should use shift-pgup/pgdown in terminals
22:06:18  <NGC3982> jonty-comp: I guess nobody really wants you to use a terminal in a newer OSX system.
22:06:28  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: O'rly?
22:07:02  <__ln__> rly
22:07:12  <NGC3982> If your system bundled keyboard contains page up or down, i fail to see the reason for it.
22:07:27  <NGC3982> More than the fact that it might have been that way for a long time.
22:08:31  <__ln__> page up/down without modifiers does another thing, it scrolls up/down the terminal's backlog.
22:08:57  <NGC3982> I se.
22:09:04  <NGC3982> +e*.
22:09:34  <jonty-comp> which is what up/down are for
22:09:39  <Wolf01> 'night
22:09:44  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:10:14  <__ln__> and that's what they do in OS X's terminal as well.
22:10:29  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:11:14  <NGC3982> But, i remember clearly that i couldn't get them to work with or without a modifier in OSX.
22:11:22  <NGC3982> I guess that goes down to SBS.
22:13:37  *** Bad_Brett [] has joined #openttd
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22:22:14  <peter1138> pom te pom
22:23:53  *** Generalcamo [] has quit []
22:24:11  <peter1138> time to dismantle the old ms keyboard
22:24:21  <SpComb> what now
22:24:44  <peter1138> yes, right now
22:25:15  <SpComb> no comma there
22:25:19  <__ln__> i was going to say stephen elop wouldn't approve of that, but then i realized he's not the ceo of microsoft.
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22:34:45  <kormer> alright, I'm giving up on trying to compile under MinGW.  I followed the directions in the wiki exactly twice now, and still no luck with it.
22:36:24  <Superuser> You can always try VS if you're uncomfortable with GCC/MinGW... though no guarantee that will work
22:36:29  <peter1138> FS2~2~2~2~2~2~2~2~2~2~
22:36:45  <peter1138> BB
22:36:51  <Superuser> wat
22:36:58  <SpComb> new keyboard
22:37:44  <__ln__> seems to be working great
22:37:54  <SpComb> yes
22:37:59  <kormer> I'm trying VS 2010 now
22:38:22  <kormer> I couldn't find 2008 for download direct from MS, and the secondary google results looked shady
22:40:48  <Superuser> The Pirate Bay is banned in your country too eh? :(
22:40:51  <Superuser> Those bastards
22:42:45  <Eddi|zuHause> the coherency of peter1138's lines is shady usually, but these last two lines are beyond any measurement boundaries :p
22:42:54  <Supercheese> I compile with VC++ 2008 Express
22:42:58  <Supercheese> works great
22:43:37  <Superuser> I said no guarantees because OTTD is normally compiled with MinGW
22:44:35  <peter1138> nah, i give up
22:45:03  <kormer> I didn't really have any issues with MinGW, but I'm not experienced enough to know why the darned thing wouldn't work.
22:46:34  <Superuser> I dunno about MinGW but I've always found g++ pretty easy in Linux
22:47:01  <Eddi|zuHause> kormer: really, if you don't tell us what exactly you do and what you get in return, we can't help you
22:47:04  <Alberth> Linux is actually an order of magnitude easier for compiling
22:47:36  <kormer> I followed these instructions to the letter:
22:48:14  <kormer> The error I got when debugging was about missing/wrong version lang files, which weren't present in the bundle or bin directories.
22:48:58  <kormer> I found some related threads in the forums, but no actual solutions, also copying the lang files from the download of the same version I was attempting to compile didn't work either.
22:49:22  <kormer> "no available language packs" was the actual error
22:49:24  <Alberth> kormer: quite likely you are doing something different that you don't even see
22:49:38  <Eddi|zuHause> kormer: i already told you what i want to see
22:49:49  <Eddi|zuHause> kormer: the whole output of configure and make
22:50:09  <kormer> sorry, I posted those like two hours ago, I'll dig them up again
22:50:18  <kormer> config: make:
22:50:34  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i guess i missed them
22:51:20  <peter1138> that isn't the *output* of make
22:51:42  <frosch123> night
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22:52:58  <kormer> is the output going to be in a file or do I need to pipe my console output someplace?
22:53:07  <andythenorth> bye
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22:53:25  <peter1138> it's the stuff you see when you run make
22:53:27  <Alberth> you need to redirect the output
22:56:42  <kormer> ok got it, I'll re-run that and see what happens if VS doesn't work out
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23:00:34  <Supercheese> makefiles are weird
23:00:59  <SpComb> we wouldn't be very far without them
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23:08:10  <jonty-comp> pfft, it's not linux-from-scratch unless you've compiled your kernel with just gcc
23:08:53  <SpComb> humanity would still be stuck copy-pasting gcc command lines endlessly
23:10:14  <jonty-comp> in related news, it turns out i had to fix my nvidia driver on my brand-new ubuntu install by installing linux-headers and running depmod
23:10:37  <jonty-comp> i'm not quite sure why ubuntu didn't do that anyway, since it was the first thing i did after install + update
23:11:01  <jonty-comp> now i just have to make this stupid old card's automatic fan control work, since there is no rivatuner for linux
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23:17:37  <jonty-comp> screen -Dr
23:18:27  <Eddi|zuHause> you said that before
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23:39:11  <kormer> When compiling under VS, do I need to extract all the tars insude the essential zip, or is just unzipping the essentials to a directory enough?
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23:45:52  <kormer> and I just realized I downloaded the source file when I really wanted the headers/libraries
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23:50:57  <jonty-comp> god dammit
23:51:04  <jonty-comp> why do i keep forgetting to fix that
23:51:07  <jonty-comp> i shall fix it now!
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