Log for #openttd on 9th March 2013:
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01:05:01  <Wolf01> 'night
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09:05:41  <Terkhen> good morning
09:13:00  <Alberth> morning
09:54:26  <Supercheese> good night
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10:49:59  <Wolf01> hi o/
10:56:04  <Alberth> hi Wolf01
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11:10:06  <frosch123> morning :)
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12:57:17  <V453000> this can be used quite nicely, but is this a bug?
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12:57:44  <V453000> if there is a logic train, it seems to keep blocking path of both diagonal half-tiles
12:57:59  <V453000> therefore the real train will never leave its spot
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12:58:21  <V453000> if you substitute the logic train with a normal train, the longer train will normally depart as expected
12:58:27  <V453000> bug or a feature? :)
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12:58:44  <frosch123> maybe it is too fast?
12:58:56  <frosch123> so when it reverses it always already leaves the tiel
12:59:19  <V453000> something like that I guess
12:59:41  <Eddi|zuHause> add another halftile of track, so the time is longer between reversals?
13:00:55  <V453000> it isnt an issue but unexpected behaviour to me, 2 halftiles are enough with all trains, so I am just asking if speed breaking PBS is a bug
13:01:00  <V453000> I know how to solve that :)
13:01:08  <Eddi|zuHause> what i think happens: logic train leaves the tile, reverses immediately. then a battle begins between logic train and the normal train, which train can reserve its path. this is usually "won" by the train that accelerates the fastest
13:01:39  <V453000> pretty much
13:01:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it's a bug
13:01:48  <V453000> ok :)
13:02:28  <V453000> one of our madmen found how to brutally abuse it :P
13:02:29  <Eddi|zuHause> it may be "solveable" by priorities
13:03:33  <V453000> nah you dont really need to solve it, if it is a problem you can always just put there a slower logic train
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13:31:36  <andythenorth_> Is FIRS done yet? Can someone test it? o_O
13:32:14  <frosch123> should we do a tropic or toyland nocargoal game? :)
13:33:05  <planetmaker> anyone knows a NewGRF which defines a currency?
13:33:24  <frosch123> nope :)
13:33:42  <planetmaker> :-)
13:33:52  <frosch123> i would think if there is any, then from the czech tycoonez community
13:34:13  <planetmaker> but... there's the czech kroner in the game as well :D
13:34:26  <frosch123> but other than that, it is likely another of of the patchman-wasted-time-on-deving-a-feature-request-which-noone-used-then
13:35:28  <planetmaker> which means we should remove it ;)
13:36:56  <frosch123> to conclude belugas-wasted-time-on-deving-a-ttdp-feature-which-noone-used-then :)
13:37:48  <planetmaker> :D
13:38:02  <V453000> :D hello pm :)
13:38:11  <planetmaker> o/
13:38:11  <Alberth> hi andy, fyi I started a little test with temperate basic economy
13:39:02  <V453000> devzone pullstuff just saved my ass btw :P managed to replace one of my templates for wagons and later smartly deleted one of the two :D
13:39:07  <V453000> pushstuff
13:39:09  <V453000> and stuff
13:39:24  <planetmaker> good :D So it pays off to use VCS ;-)
13:39:43  <frosch123> V453000: do you know about doing a czech translation of ttd for ttdp?
13:40:05  <V453000> I doubt is doing anything at all
13:40:36  <frosch123> <- ok, the download page only lists the unifont grf
13:40:43  <V453000> I dont know much about them (I dont love them either), but from what I can tell from forum activity (1 post per 2 weeks?), I doubt they are active what so ever
13:41:04  <frosch123> yeah, it died in 2009 together with ttdp or so
13:41:13  <V453000> idk what that is but it is from 2006 :D
13:41:21  <frosch123> minime disappeared about the same time as patchman
13:41:57  <frosch123> V453000: ttdp cannot draw system truetype fonts, so someone started drawing a unicode font himself
13:42:10  <V453000> right
13:42:30  <V453000> idk I always used english, I hate czech in games
13:42:35  <V453000> and by hate I mean hate
13:42:44  <frosch123> yeah, i know :)
13:42:50  <frosch123> same applies to all translations of anything
13:43:07  <frosch123> my whole computer is running on an english locale
13:43:18  <V453000> I just wanted to say that I dont know anything about this problematic because I never solved anything there
13:43:21  <frosch123> and when i recently encountered the english translation of my german software at work
13:43:30  <frosch123> i trashed it completely and translated myself :)
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13:44:15  <V453000> I often need to use tool-translator when I talk with colleagues who use czech versions of adobe producs :s
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13:50:54  <snappy> Been a long time since I looked into openttd. I was wondering how far along has the newgfx come?
13:51:30  <frosch123> opengfx is done for 3 years
13:51:46  <snappy> wow, really has been a long time for me heh.
13:52:54  <V453000> YAY :D 10 000 X pixels are pure white errors :D that is what I call smooth compiling
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13:54:41  <frosch123> what are "X pixels"? are they better than "Y pixels"?
13:57:49  <V453000> x as in substitute with a random number :P
14:01:13  <Alberth> I picked 4
14:01:47  <V453000> not too far, is actually 32
14:12:35  <V453000> nuts at almost 30 000 lines of code ._.
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14:32:41  <frosch123> damn, i hate this hg bug!
14:32:54  <planetmaker> which?
14:33:21  <frosch123> whenever i use -m "-Remove: ..." it considers -R as a command line option
14:33:25  <frosch123> instead of a parameter to -m
14:33:29  <frosch123> only happens to -R
14:33:37  <planetmaker> uh?
14:33:45  <frosch123> though i don't even know what option -R is
14:33:46  <planetmaker> that is... peculiar
14:33:50  <planetmaker> recursive
14:33:54  <frosch123> but then it complains that -m lacks its parameter :p
14:34:15  <planetmaker> which hg version?
14:34:21  <frosch123> planetmaker: no idea what recusive should mean for qnew
14:34:28  <frosch123> 1.6.4
14:34:34  <planetmaker> nothing ;-). But... 1.6 is... ancient
14:34:42  <frosch123> squeeze :)
14:35:02  <planetmaker> yeah... I got a checkout from hg stable and sometimes update to latest tag :D
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14:49:53  <frosch123> which script language uses {%foobar%} to query the database field "foobar" ?
14:50:44  <frosch123> i have been receiving spam mails from {%FROM_NAME%} for several weeks now :p
14:51:53  <michi_cc> Some random bulk mail software I'd guess.
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15:07:32  <wojteks86> hi
15:07:48  <wojteks86> can someone please tell me who created webtranslator? or where did we get it from :D
15:08:52  <Alberth> our sysadmin TB built it
15:09:48  <wojteks86> is it possible to make it an exe? to use locally for other translations too?
15:10:17  <Alberth> unlikely
15:10:39  <Alberth> it's Python, and aimed specifically at openttd strings
15:11:10  <Alberth> eg newgrf strings are already different
15:11:34  <wojteks86> I was just thinking... having it as a local app would make life so much easier for a translator :D
15:11:47  * Alberth agrees completely
15:11:55  <Alberth> want to write one?
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15:12:07  <wojteks86> Im not that experienced so not sure what is the difference between newgrf strings and ottd?
15:12:12  <wojteks86> yes
15:12:56  <Alberth> the set of {...} commands is different, for example
15:12:57  <wojteks86> I will start some time this month, I think
15:13:05  <wojteks86> aha
15:13:10  <Alberth> nice, we should talk then
15:13:29  <Alberth> do you know about the eints project at devzone?
15:13:39  <wojteks86> that's gonna take me 10 years, but I will then share it here :P
15:13:44  <wojteks86> nope
15:14:40  <Alberth> it's a web app I am building to do translations of newgrf strings
15:14:58  <wojteks86> is it somewhere on
15:14:58  <wojteks86> ?
15:15:23  <Alberth>
15:16:44  <Alberth> but it could also be used as a back-end for uploading and downloading changes from another application, eg like one you are considering to write
15:17:38  <wojteks86> STR_BEER         :{YELLOW}{COMMA} bottles of beer are needed
15:17:39  <wojteks86> :D
15:17:41  <wojteks86> good one
15:19:02  <V453000> :D
15:19:24  <wojteks86> ok so you are writing a web app
15:19:47  <wojteks86> I was thinking of an application that uses locally stored text files
15:20:12  * Alberth nods
15:20:24  <Alberth> there are actually 2 problems
15:21:22  <Alberth> one is that a newgrf project currently just has files, but they don't have enough information about what strings need to be worked on
15:22:33  <Alberth> also, an application like yours needs something to talk to when uploading or downloading changes
15:22:47  <Alberth> eg merging changes of different translators
15:22:53  <wojteks86> or you can choose a source file manually
15:23:04  <wojteks86> hmm yes
15:23:12  <Alberth> what if several authors work in the same language file?
15:23:28  <wojteks86> well, thats how it works atm
15:23:35  <Alberth> and the newgrf author also decides to change the files that you just downloaded
15:24:22  <Alberth> that's the application I am making currently, it knows what strings need work, and keeps track of updates from everybody
15:24:55  <wojteks86> you have more exp and Im sure you know how to do it better :D honestly
15:25:11  <wojteks86> I was just too selfish ;)
15:25:36  <Alberth> no, you're not, but you're missing some pieces of the bigger puzzle :)
15:26:27  <wojteks86> the reason for that is that I seem to be the only active Polish translator at the moment, but I know there are quite a few for Dutch and German
15:27:14  <Alberth> Well, my webapp thus keeps track of what needs work. That's a bit useless in itself, if you cannot change strings as well.
15:27:14  <Alberth> Thus I am extending my application with web-based editing of strings.
15:27:17  <wojteks86> a tool I thought of would be useful only for me, unless there is another translator out there who wants to translate the same newgrf as me
15:27:44  <Alberth> However, an application like you propose is also on my wish list.
15:27:51  <wojteks86> it will be very useful when you finish
15:28:25  <Alberth> so I think we can combine the effort
15:28:32  <wojteks86> why? is there something you would like to do with the strings locally even when you'd have your own app done?
15:29:38  <Alberth> tbh, yes. I want to click 'get all updates from all projects', and I can edit the strings locally
15:29:58  <wojteks86> ah, that would be useful
15:30:37  <wojteks86> does that mean you could vote for translations and choose the one that suits the most?
15:31:14  <Alberth> if you want to build your application, eints can be a source of changes that need to be handled, and it can accept work you have done.
15:31:40  <Alberth> Also, the code can parse strings, check correctness of them, and so on
15:32:05  <Alberth> which is code you'll also need, so it can be a source of inspiration on how to do things
15:32:21  <Alberth> or, if you use Python3, you can just copy it :)
15:32:28  <wojteks86> yes :)
15:32:59  <wojteks86> when did you start coding?
15:33:10  <Alberth> a month ago or so?
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15:33:24  <wojteks86> no, I mean in general :D
15:33:30  <mapa-falsh> hello
15:33:33  <wojteks86> hi
15:33:36  <Alberth> but I started looking at strings and translations much longer ago
15:33:50  <mapa-falsh> i have a question
15:34:00  <mapa-falsh> i ment ,i need a big help
15:34:01  <Alberth> wojteks86: oh, in general, hmm, let's see, 30 years ago or so? :)
15:34:10  <Alberth> mapa-falsh: just ask the question
15:34:21  <wojteks86> that explains a lot :)
15:34:32  <mapa-falsh> how i install a latest version of openttd on my linux mint 13?
15:34:50  <Alberth> install the generic linux binary
15:34:52  <mapa-falsh> ... btw i am compleate noob in question or working on linux
15:35:16  <Alberth> 'install' mostly means download and unpack :)
15:35:45  <mapa-falsh> hmm... ok i installed so i will try to unpack it..... brb
15:36:01  <mapa-falsh> *install=*downloaded
15:36:09  <Alberth> mapa-falsh: no problem, we're not going anywhere :)
15:36:27  <wojteks86> yet :)
15:36:42  <Alberth> :)
15:37:01  <Alberth> it's raining outside, you don't want to go outside anyway :)
15:37:25  <wojteks86> not raining out here
15:37:36  <wojteks86> I need to catch a bus in 30 mins ;)
15:37:42  <mapa-falsh> hmm i downloaded for my linux mint 13 a ubuntu version 12.04? is that ok?
15:37:43  <Alberth> quickly go now before it starts then :)
15:38:03  <Alberth> that's not 'generic linux' afaik
15:38:22  <Alberth> mapa-falsh:  ^
15:38:32  <mapa-falsh> ???
15:39:41  <wojteks86> I've never touched linux so cant really help, sorry
15:39:55  <mapa-falsh> lol it works..... for now.... and i am happy with it
15:40:03  <planetmaker> mapa-falsh, get the generic linux binary. Unpack in a dir of your choice. Start the binary
15:40:06  <mapa-falsh> btw thx a lot guyz
15:40:14  * planetmaker is slow.
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15:40:39  <mapa-falsh> planetmaker: i instaled it somehow and it is running... for now
15:40:40  <Alberth> mapa-falsh:  <-- Linux Generic Binary is above all Ubuntu binaries
15:41:08  <Alberth> mapa-falsh: you are running the right version?
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15:41:26  <Alberth> the title bar tells you
15:41:27  <mapa-falsh> Alberth: dunno
15:41:38  <kero> please, is there a way for a gamescript datas being preserved in a savegame ?
15:41:50  <mapa-falsh> Alberth: atleast for now game is runing
15:41:57  <kero> (or an alternative file, also)
15:42:14  <mapa-falsh> thx guys
15:42:55  <Alberth> wojteks86: please consider whether you want to interface to eints or not.  If not, that's fine too. If you have further questions just ask me
15:43:01  <wojteks86> right, I need to get going, Alberth, thanks for your help and advise ;)
15:43:12  <wojteks86> will do!
15:43:15  <Alberth> mapa-falsh: ok, if it works, that's ok then :)
15:43:18  <wojteks86> much appreciated!
15:43:20  <Alberth> bye wojteks86
15:43:23  <wojteks86> bye
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15:51:09  <frosch123> kero: gamescripts can save and load whatever data they like to
15:51:54  <Alberth> andythenorth_: I pushed some language updates to firs
15:52:04  * NGC3982 pushes Alberth.
15:52:19  <Alberth> I am very stable :)
15:52:51  <kero> frosch123 : Interesting. Now I just need to figure out how :)
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15:53:22  <planetmaker> kero, you might want to refer to some existing one. I know it exists. But I don't know in which
15:53:32  <frosch123> kero:
15:53:55  <frosch123> you can also look at sillicon valley, nocargoal or various AIs for examples
15:55:05  <kero> ok, great, i'll look at that
15:55:30  <kero> planetmaker : actually, i'm already working on a made script, which I'm trying to improve
15:55:49  <planetmaker> :-) always a good start
15:56:04  <kero> I calculate a mobile average, and I want to save the datas in case of reloading the game
15:56:12  <frosch123> i like the table at the bottom of that wiki page
15:56:29  <frosch123> it says "no" all throughout the "hardcode into ais" column :)
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15:57:07  <frosch123> which is correct, but putting it into a table like that kind of stresses the point :)
15:59:55  <kero> frosch123 : great, that's exactly what I was looking for
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16:09:56  <RXShorty> Hello all :)
16:10:16  <Alberth> hi
16:10:33  <RXShorty> I have a question about the dedicated server. I want to slow down the game speed, meaning it takes longer time for passing a year or so
16:10:36  <RXShorty> Is this possible?
16:11:39  <RXShorty> I have checked the openttd.cfg but can't find anything that is related to this setting. Am I correct?
16:11:59  <Alberth> yes
16:12:14  <Alberth> as in, you cannot set the speed
16:12:34  <RXShorty> Pitty... found some servers online that did fix that somehow.
16:13:01  <frosch123> you can pause the game when noone is playing
16:13:09  <frosch123> as in no client connected
16:13:18  <frosch123> but you cannot change the speed while people are playing
16:13:35  <Alberth> there are patches around that implement some form of it, but it's not in standard openttd
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16:14:29  <RXShorty> ahh ok
16:15:03  <Alberth> note that your clients need the exact same version to play with
16:15:22  <RXShorty> Ok yes we are using 1.2.3 atm
16:15:25  <Alberth> so you cannot run a patched server, and have clients connect with a normal version
16:15:46  <RXShorty> Any idea where I can find such a patch?
16:16:01  <RXShorty> Sorry for the many questions, but we have a few new players... ;)
16:18:31  <Alberth> no idea tbh, I'd start looking in the development section of the forums
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16:28:27  <RXShorty> Will do thanks :)
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16:58:36  <RXShorty> @Alberth found it here:
16:58:49  <Alberth> oke
17:00:25  <kero> Squirrel is maybee a nice language but it's very hard to find some learning tutorial about it
17:00:38  <kero> does somebody has some documentation ?
17:00:49  * Alberth ponders about "Advanced"ness of settings, in particular, as the difficulty settings are gone now
17:01:15  * NGC3982 wonders about how squirrel linguistics works out.
17:02:39  <planetmaker> hm, Alberth :-) Sounds like a good point
17:05:28  <frosch123> Alberth: once game options are gone, we can rename it just to settings :)
17:05:51  <Alberth> :)
17:06:23  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25072 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2013-03-09 16:16:17 UTC)
17:06:24  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Don't require the custom currency to be the last defined one
17:06:32  <frosch123> anyway, i think "advanced" is a nice disclaimer
17:06:36  <frosch123> for people to not look at them :p
17:10:38  <Alberth> luckily we have the advanced basic settings :)
17:11:53  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25073 trunk/src/currency.h (2013-03-09 16:21:47 UTC)
17:11:54  <DorpsGek> -Doc: Improve Currencies enum description
17:13:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25074 trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp (2013-03-09 16:23:22 UTC)
17:13:29  <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Simplify currency selection code slightly
17:14:49  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25075 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-03-09 16:24:43 UTC)
17:14:50  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Allow for more than 32 currencies
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17:22:02  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25076 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-03-09 16:31:56 UTC)
17:22:03  <DorpsGek> -Add [FS#5212]: Georgian Lari and Iranian Rial as currencies
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18:45:05  <planetmaker> good night
18:45:17  <Alberth> good night planetmaker
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18:57:33  <Snail> good afternoon :)
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19:18:16  <Ristovski> can you load a .sav in the scenario editor so you can edit the map?
19:19:12  <frosch123> yes, just rename it to .scn
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19:19:30  <Ristovski> frosch123: hmm this works too: "openttd -e -g name.sav"
19:19:41  <frosch123> ok :)
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19:22:11  <NGC3982> How can fast growth be achieved with OpenGFX+?
19:22:34  <NGC3982> I have this diamon mine that never reached >40 bags :(
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19:35:36  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25077 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-03-09 18:45:27 UTC)
19:35:37  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:35:38  <DorpsGek> belarusian - 8 changes by Wowanxm
19:35:39  <DorpsGek> korean - 7 changes by telk5093
19:35:40  <DorpsGek> latvian - 3 changes by Parastais
19:35:41  <DorpsGek> polish - 2 changes by wojteks86
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21:07:57  <andythenorth> did cirdan do the 'close airports' patch? o_O
21:08:06  <andythenorth> that's my favourite feature in ages
21:12:32  <Alberth> it's a nice part of the puzzle :)
21:14:24  * andythenorth has some...ideas
21:20:49  <Alberth> oh dear :)
21:21:11  <Alberth> hmm, loading stuff before starting the web server is useless :(
21:21:42  <frosch123> this noon i coded a small hackish patch, which did what it should in most cases
21:21:57  <frosch123> now i am trying to do it properly and run into dozen problems :p
21:22:21  <frosch123> maybe i should publish the first hack on the forums and request inclusion from the devs
21:24:47  <Alberth> oh, it's me, forgot to add a 'global' declaration.
21:25:27  <Alberth> frosch123: but now you've already told the devs it's broken
21:26:17  <frosch123> well, it is well-tested at least
21:26:27  <frosch123> since when does the test result matter?
21:27:54  <frosch123> i thought that's the usual way. medicine is well-tested in studies. food is under constant quality-observation. but noone asks about the results of the studies or tests :)
21:29:43  <Alberth> good point, I'd suggest to wait a little over three weeks
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21:30:13  <andythenorth> idea numero uno: should buy menu show vehicle loading speed?  Or is it a non-useful property?
21:30:16  <MNIM> frosch123: but what does it do?
21:30:27  <andythenorth> MNIM: it does whatever you want it to do :)
21:30:45  <andythenorth> and some unexpected things too, from the sound of it
21:31:35  <MNIM> I want it to do enhanced tunnels and signals in tunnels and bridges.
21:31:40  <MNIM> betcha it doesn't do that
21:31:54  <Alberth> andythenorth: NUTS does, but I don't really take notice of it
21:32:45  <Alberth> MNIM: I am sure some hack-ish patches exist for that
21:32:51  <MNIM> 2CC trainset does, though some loading speeds are mildly silly, otherwise rather useful
21:33:30  <MNIM> Alberth: I know of signals on bridges and tunnels but hackish is an understatement there, don't know about enhanced tunnels
21:34:32  <Alberth> signals on tunnels is not an enhancement?
21:35:34  <andythenorth> ok idea numero duo: sometimes I want FIRS industries to show recent cargo deliveries and/or current production ratio
21:35:40  <andythenorth> I could do that with text
21:35:56  <andythenorth> or I could do it by drawing it into the ground tile, and then using invisble to look
21:36:27  <andythenorth> neither of which requires a patch for ottd :)
21:36:58  <andythenorth> or we could add 'recently delivered cargo' to ottd
21:38:36  <Snail> two = due, not duo :)
21:39:08  <andythenorth> "other languages are available" :)
21:41:14  <Alberth> can't you use the 'waiting to be processed' silly texts?
21:41:52  <Alberth> imho, adding fixed texts to openttd would be a bad idea
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21:49:59  <andythenorth> there's not much I can do with those silly texts :)
21:50:13  <andythenorth> although...I noticed recently, George has managed to customise them in ECS
21:50:21  <andythenorth> I don't know how he's done that :o
21:52:16  <andythenorth> maybe cargo subtype strings
21:53:00  <andythenorth> hmm, ECS isn't GPL?
21:53:11  <andythenorth> oh dear :(
21:54:38  <Alberth> no idea what its license is
21:57:36  <andythenorth> there are some FIRS graphics in there from other people under GPL
21:57:57  <andythenorth> I told ge*rge he can use my sprites, but that doesn't extend to other people :(
21:57:59  <andythenorth> oops
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22:05:10  <Alberth> so technically, he is not obeying the license :p
22:05:25  <andythenorth> technically
22:05:33  <andythenorth> and I should chase that :(
22:05:44  <andythenorth> also how do I get OpenTTD to persist settings?
22:05:48  <andythenorth> it has always mystified me
22:06:29  <andythenorth> I keep selecting 'GS: none' and every time I start the program, I have a GS selected again
22:06:56  <Alberth> set it from the main menu, and save
22:07:02  <Alberth> euhm, exit
22:07:08  <andythenorth> I tried that
22:07:15  <andythenorth> oh, I have to 'accept'? :o
22:07:28  <Alberth> possibly
22:07:37  <andythenorth> oh
22:07:50  <andythenorth> and 'accept' is so widely used elsewhere of course :P
22:08:02  <andythenorth> and we always put the default button on the left too
22:08:05  <andythenorth> except when we don't
22:08:07  <Alberth> if there is such a button, it does not hurt to try it :)
22:08:33  <Alberth> yeah, it's nicely consistent and so
22:08:42  <andythenorth> yeah
22:08:44  <andythenorth> wonderful
22:08:52  <andythenorth> newgrf settings: apply (bottom right)
22:08:58  <andythenorth> game options: no requirement to save
22:09:04  <andythenorth> advanced options: no requirement to save
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22:09:21  <andythenorth> load game: load is bottom right
22:09:39  <Alberth> we seem to nee a few 'ok' buttons near the top
22:09:42  <andythenorth> GS: accept (bottom left)
22:09:42  <Alberth> *need
22:09:54  <andythenorth> some dialogs save when closing, others have to be closed explicitly
22:10:21  <Alberth> hmm, sounds like a nice todo thingie
22:10:24  <andythenorth> the GS / AI window sucks a bit
22:10:35  <andythenorth> opens smaller than the others, and the layout is just meh
22:10:57  <andythenorth> oh, and, of course, it has an explicit 'close' button
22:11:06  <andythenorth> even though there is also the standard 'x' on the window :P
22:11:21  <andythenorth> who made it?  Am I hurting their feelings? :)
22:12:12  <andythenorth> the mix of stateless and non-stateless stuff is one thing, the other thing is the lack of consistency in gui
22:12:33  <andythenorth> Is the source code available? o_O
22:13:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: blame tb :)
22:13:27  <andythenorth> I do :)
22:13:31  <andythenorth> for most things
22:15:14  <andythenorth> ho ho, I just found FIRS 0.1.0 in my grf list
22:15:19  <andythenorth> what does that look like? o_O
22:16:27  <V453000> :D
22:17:06  <andythenorth> yeah, it's about the same
22:17:08  <andythenorth> not much changed
22:17:12  <frosch123> i am quite sure it does not work in ottd 0.1.0
22:18:52  <andythenorth> @calc 3430-751
22:18:52  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 2679
22:18:59  <andythenorth> only a few changes since 0.1.0
22:19:07  <andythenorth> hardly worth the effort afaict :P
22:19:40  <frosch123> maybe you should look in the middle?
22:19:42  <frosch123> 0.5.0 or so
22:19:52  <frosch123> maybe you added lots of stuff and then reverted it again :p
22:20:07  <andythenorth> that does seem to be the case
22:20:14  <andythenorth> also redrew nearly everything
22:20:25  <andythenorth> and ported the code about 4 times
22:20:31  <frosch123> if 0.5.0 has most, maybe 1.0.0 should be an empty grf?
22:20:39  <frosch123> bug free
22:20:40  <andythenorth> interesting idea
22:20:44  <andythenorth> I'll consider it :)
22:20:56  <andythenorth> when will vehicle 'views' be done?
22:21:02  <andythenorth> and what are they? oO
22:21:26  <frosch123> the end of the world maybe
22:21:40  <frosch123> i think that term is currently available
22:21:52  <frosch123> i am not aware of anyone having proclaimed it again lately
22:22:38  <andythenorth> oh yes
22:22:44  <andythenorth> I knew there was something to worry about it
22:22:53  <andythenorth> not having the end of the world to worry about does worry me
22:23:42  <frosch123> yeah, when is the next end of the world?
22:23:53  * frosch123 likes using "next" in that context
22:24:57  <andythenorth> n
22:25:01  <andythenorth> n+1
22:25:40  <andythenorth> so the thing about views
22:25:50  <andythenorth> in Squid / FISH / whatever it's called
22:26:02  <andythenorth> I randomise the graphics for each ship model a bit
22:26:09  <andythenorth> which is going to cause confused players
22:26:16  <andythenorth> "I built a ship and it looks different"
22:28:40  <Alberth> opengfx+ does that too with wagons
22:29:00  <Alberth> it changes colours and appearance
22:29:48  <Alberth> it's nice for displaying in the game world, but somewhat confusing in the buy menu
22:29:54  <andythenorth> yes
22:30:24  <andythenorth> it's a nice feature - I'm going to keep it....I just know it will have this side effect :)
22:31:01  <Alberth> if you know it works that way, it's not a problem
22:31:13  <frosch123> i would hope that would also happen irl
22:31:22  <frosch123> like buying a cheap car and it turns out to be a sports car
22:31:45  <Alberth> does that ever happen? :)
22:32:26  <frosch123> well, with sports cars all kind things happen
22:33:21  <frosch123> like a maelstrom appearing inside the fuel tank when accelerating
22:34:17  <Alberth> 1 liter every 400m ?  :)   Cruise ships do that
22:34:52  <V453000> NUTS express wagons look almost never the same as they do in the purchase menu :P
22:34:56  <Alberth> tanks are also horrible :)
22:35:07  <V453000> well they do if they are not attached to stuff
22:35:39  <frosch123> otoh nuts pax wagon look the same even when refitting to different colour :p
22:35:45  <Alberth> V453000: but the choice in wagons is fairly limited, which makes life a lot easier
22:35:51  * andythenorth has rebalanced Squid
22:35:52  <andythenorth> joy
22:35:56  <V453000> true :D
22:37:12  <Alberth> I like your unlimited cargo teleport idea :)  I used a instant-win button, but your idea is much better
22:37:13  <andythenorth> the problem with newgrfs testings
22:37:36  <V453000> :D
22:38:04  <V453000> I felt like instant win button wasnt descriptive enough :P
22:38:47  <Alberth> andythenorth: yeah, in particular when OpenTTD sabotages your nice RV feeder
22:39:23  <andythenorth> :P
22:40:50  <andythenorth> if no grf was ever played, there would be a lot more 1.0 versions :P
22:43:16  <Alberth> I started playing with the FIRS station rating, and I found it has a HUGE impact compared to OpenTTD rating, even if you have an engine constantly loading
22:44:00  <andythenorth> yes it does :)
22:44:00  <Alberth> you only need a few industries to push production into the thousands of goods
22:44:03  <andythenorth> yes
22:44:14  <andythenorth> it's probably too generous
22:44:18  <andythenorth> but I like it :)
22:47:18  <Alberth> I can't beat that argument :)
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22:50:18  <andythenorth> I need a web translator app for FISH
22:50:25  <andythenorth> maintaining strings is boring
22:50:34  <andythenorth> Alberth: here's a case I don't see in the design (yet) :)
22:50:38  <andythenorth> I delete a string
22:50:46  <andythenorth> it needs removing from all lang files
22:50:53  <andythenorth> we could do that right?
22:51:04  <Alberth> it does already :)
22:51:52  <andythenorth> oh
22:51:54  <Alberth> just upload a new base language version
22:51:55  <andythenorth> I missed that :o
22:52:03  <andythenorth> awesome
22:52:11  <andythenorth> we should finish it :P
22:52:27  <andythenorth> I got distracted by boats
22:52:46  <Alberth> I got distracted by FreeRCT :)
22:53:58  <Alberth> did we decide something about managing access of translators to the files?
22:54:08  <andythenorth> no
22:54:55  <Alberth> I invented a project-owner that controls who can translate languages in his/her project
22:56:04  <Alberth> ie person X and Y may change strings in language ab_CD
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22:56:18  <Alberth> in a projec
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22:56:48  <andythenorth> makes sense
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22:57:20  <andythenorth> so access control list
22:57:42  <Alberth> is that how it's called? :)
22:57:59  <Alberth> I also invented a syntax for configuring eints
22:58:02  <andythenorth>
22:58:16  <andythenorth> the python frameworks have varying degrees of ACL
22:58:31  <andythenorth> from 'none' to 'every single object lookup has a permission check'
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22:59:02  <Alberth> I just need to actually create a project owner field somewhere, and a list translators for a language in a projevt
22:59:11  *** KritiK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:02:31  <Alberth> should we add web pages to set these, or is some file sufficient (where the system administrator of the site can make changes)
23:02:41  <andythenorth> file for now
23:02:50  <Alberth> k
23:02:59  <andythenorth> file means SSH access to the place the thing is running
23:03:06  <andythenorth> delegate the security to that
23:03:22  <andythenorth> securing our own web-thing to add add project owners is more of a headache
23:03:53  * Alberth nods
23:06:04  <Alberth> good night
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23:08:05  <andythenorth> bye Alberth
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23:30:28  <frogzilla> Hey guys. I'm trying to run a dedicated server on Ubuntu linux with openttd -D but I get an error: "could not bind on IPv4 port [xxx] (IPv4): Cannot assign requested address". Any ideas?
23:33:01  <MNIM> a quick google suggests checking your firewall, assuming if you haven't already done so
23:34:25  <frogzilla> Google is my friend but I have no experience with linux at all so I was hoping for a more tailored answer from the experts.
23:35:49  <frogzilla> I just shut down the entire firewall and I'm now trying again.
23:37:39  <frogzilla> No effect.
23:38:13  <michi_cc> First answer on maybe?
23:40:23  <KenjiE20> if it can't bind a port, it tends to mean that the port is used, not that the firewall is blocking
23:42:18  <frogzilla> I tried different ports. It's a clean install so nothing else should be running. /etc/network/interfaces shows auto for eth0 and ifconfig shows it gets a local IP address from the router. The modem forwards all traffic to the local IP (linux server). It works on Windows (running a server and 'advertising' it in the list).
23:42:19  <kero> use nestat -lapute to watch if the port is being used
23:42:39  <kero> what kind of ports did you try ?
23:44:12  <frogzilla> netstat -lapute shows only one port 7569 in use by dhclient3.
23:45:52  <frogzilla> I tried the default (4938) and one I found in an internet forum (3978)
23:46:07  <frogzilla> I also tried with no port parameter
23:46:35  <kero> did you try as root ?
23:46:46  <frogzilla> I am root, yes.
23:47:05  <KenjiE20> @ports
23:47:06  <DorpsGek> KenjiE20: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
23:47:25  <KenjiE20> where'd 4938 com from?
23:47:30  <KenjiE20> come*
23:48:32  <frogzilla> 4938 came from here: I guess it's a random port he tried but I thought I might as well try it too.
23:49:15  <KenjiE20> fair enough
23:49:39  <KenjiE20> does dbg [net] show ant n) lines for you?
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23:53:00  <frogzilla> No command 'dbg' found, did you mean dbd, dig, kdbg, dlg or dfbg
23:54:40  <KenjiE20> in openttd's log
23:55:19  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:55:36  <frogzilla> Where can I find that?
23:56:06  <frogzilla> I'd expect to find it in /root/openttd, but there seems to be no log there
23:56:45  <KenjiE20> iirc it normally outputs to the console

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