Log for #openttd on 10th March 2013:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:22  <frogzilla> It goes too fast. I tried writing it to a file using > debug.txt but it only shows 'ERROR: Could not start server'
00:01:57  <KenjiE20> could probably use the less/more tools to page it
00:04:31  <frogzilla> I tried that as well. It doesn't work.
00:04:47  <frogzilla> It just shoots by at lightningspeed.
00:05:00  <KenjiE20> ssh'ing or working directly?
00:05:53  <KenjiE20> ah wait, you said was only one server up, so directly
00:05:55  <KenjiE20> derp
00:06:45  <KenjiE20> try shift-pgup/dn?
00:08:43  <xQR> is there anyway to completely disable (display of) chat in multiplayer?
00:08:47  <frogzilla> It's a virtual machine. You can SSH if you like, there is not much you could destroy.
00:09:22  <frogzilla> I can now scroll. Thank you.
00:09:28  <xQR> i set network_chat_timeout = 1 so that it disappears after a second and made network_chat_box_* as small as possible but is there a way to completely get rid of the chat?
00:10:53  <frogzilla> There is no line that looks like dbg [net] show ant n)
00:11:01  <KenjiE20> hmm
00:12:09  <KenjiE20> this makes me think either a) the vm hasn't got/loaded any ethernet adapters, or b) the build of openttd doesn't see it, probably a
00:12:42  <frogzilla> I can apt-get stuff and I used lynx to surf the web. It has a local IP address and internet. What more does it need?
00:13:48  <KenjiE20> hm
00:13:57  <frogzilla> I explicitly selected the option to 'bridge network' so it would get its own IP and I could use port forwarding on the modem to this device. Exactly how I do it on Windows and there it works.
00:15:04  <KenjiE20> well if there's no dbg [net] number and ip lines in the log, that means openttd isn't seeing the adapter
00:15:34  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:16:19  *** Supercheese [~Password4@] has joined #openttd
00:17:22  <frogzilla> "dbg: [net] could not bind on IPv4 port (IPv4): Cannot assign requested address"
00:17:37  <frogzilla> That is its local IP. OpenTTD gets it from somewhere
00:18:09  *** cyph3r [] has joined #openttd
00:22:24  <xQR> if you want it to bind to a different IP just tell OpenTTD in the config
00:22:33  <xQR> there is a [server_bind_addresses] section in openttd.cfg for that
00:22:44  <KenjiE20> he's tried other ports
00:22:52  <Supercheese> Version 2.0 thread troll-y as usual
00:22:59  <Terkhen> good night
00:24:04  <KenjiE20> though really the only thing I can think of is /something/ is sat on that port =/
00:24:43  <xQR> that's usually the reason for this error, yes
00:25:08  <KenjiE20> oh a xQR akaict there's no disable for the chat
00:25:13  <KenjiE20> afaict*
00:25:25  <xQR> :/
00:26:15  <xQR> frogzilla try "netstat -tulpn | grep :3979"
00:26:28  <xQR> should show you whether something is listening on that port
00:26:47  <xQR> maybe an openttd instance of an earlier test that has crashed and is still blocking the port?
00:28:47  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:28:49  <frogzilla> It shows no output
00:29:19  <frogzilla> I restarted the virtual machine several times as well, thereby making it unlikely that a previous version is bothering us.
00:29:21  <xQR> then something is wrong with the IP address it tries to bind to
00:30:09  <KenjiE20> hmm, you said the modem is forwarding to, yet openttd is binding to
00:30:59  <frogzilla> That is a little detail I missed but it's most likely the cause of the problem
00:31:12  <xQR> so we are back to
00:31:13  <xQR> [00:32:34] • ŠxQRŠ there is a [server_bind_addresses] section in openttd.cfg for that
00:31:17  <KenjiE20> wrong ip on the vm could be it
00:31:25  <xQR> in that section add the line: =
00:32:13  <frogzilla> I restarted it. Now it is your solution
00:32:58  <KenjiE20> it defaults to, so unless you already went in and edited that.....
00:33:31  <KenjiE20> or empty
00:35:51  <frogzilla> That fixed part of the problem. It somehow took Changed it to and now it starts. It still doesn't advertise though.
00:36:16  <KenjiE20> @ports
00:36:16  <DorpsGek> KenjiE20: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
00:36:24  <KenjiE20> that needs to other port forwarded
00:36:52  <KenjiE20> and the advertise setting in cfg, which I think is defaulted on
00:37:05  <xQR> server_advertise = true
00:39:33  <frogzilla> Hell yeah! We're online!
00:39:41  <xQR> gz
00:39:55  <KenjiE20> glad it's sorted
00:40:00  <frogzilla> advertise setting was off by default. Changed to true and now it works.
00:40:36  <KenjiE20> been a while since I looked at a default cfg :p
00:40:55  <xQR> i was unsure about that too, next time i know ;)
00:41:00  <frogzilla> Thanks a lot. I now see these 'queried from' coming by so I guess some people can see it.
00:41:07  <KenjiE20> yup
00:42:08  <xQR> but it makes sense if you think about it, someone starting his server the first time rarely already has it perfectly configured, he is more likely still doing a lot of testing and his server will go up and down
00:42:08  <frogzilla> Now to update the server. It is 1.1.4 and the client is 1.2.3.
00:42:18  <xQR> not a good idea to have advertising activated right from the start
00:42:30  <KenjiE20> true
00:42:35  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:42:50  <xQR> so it should be an active decision of an administrator to enable it
00:42:53  <frogzilla> Yup. Sounds reasonable. But that was essential to test because if it doesn't it makes no sense in trying further.
00:43:33  <xQR> yeah, server would be pointless if nobody can reach it ;)
00:43:44  <KenjiE20> well...
00:44:34  *** sla_ro|master [sla_romas@] has quit [Quit: connection reset by myself]
00:46:59  <frogzilla> Should I download the newest version from and install it? apt-get doesn't have a newer version than 1.1.4.
00:47:44  <xQR> yes you should, otherwise your server won't find many players
00:48:30  <xQR> the website has ubuntu packages
00:48:53  <xQR> so the update should be easy
00:50:06  <xQR> i don't know about ubuntu but on debian i just do "dpkg -i openttdinstallfile.deb"
00:50:10  <frogzilla> For a noob like me it was quite a challenge getting this far but I'm committed. I want to experiment with the autopilot thing to create a goal server.
00:50:10  <xQR> quite simple
00:50:38  <KenjiE20> haha
00:50:40  <KenjiE20> glhf
00:50:49  <xQR> i would be surprised if it would be any harder on ubuntu
00:51:09  <xQR> google tells me it should work the same on ubuntu
00:51:21  <xQR> also there should be no need to uninstall the previous packet you got from apt-get
00:51:32  <xQR> the system should detect that the package already exists and upgrade it
00:51:41  <xQR> again, i can only speak for debian
00:52:55  <xQR> is there an autopilot script that provides goal features by now?
00:53:34  <KenjiE20> goal stuff is all grfs I think, and a bit of a minefield last I heard
00:53:53  <xQR> i think it was 3 or 4 years ago when it didn't, so i wrote those features into the autopilot scripts manually and it was a pain
00:54:12  <xQR> especially because i am not a big fan of TCL :P
00:54:22  <xQR> this language is just too messy
00:54:56  <michi_cc> Write a game script instead and you can have fun with squirrel (and something that really works and isn't just one big hack).
00:55:30  <frogzilla> As far as I know there is no goal-script available yet and that frustrates me. Currently BtPro and Novapolis seem to have a 'monopoly' on those scripts.
00:55:35  *** supermop [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:55:49  <frogzilla> I am not really good at Linux but I can write code, so I hope I can contribute to the community a little.
00:56:59  <xQR> well after i figured autopilot isn't the way to do it i started my own project i call xShunter
00:57:08  <xQR> which is what the and BTPro servers are using
00:57:44  <xQR> Novapolis on the other hand uses a mixture of server patches and newgrfs (and i think now they started to additionally use GameScripts)
00:58:35  <xQR> if you want to use xShunter we can do that, send me a mail to about it
00:58:41  <xQR> but first you should finish the basic setup ;)
01:00:18  <frogzilla> Ah, nice. I will contact you as soon as I'm ready to get started.
01:01:21  *** Snail [] has joined #openttd
01:07:02  <xQR> basic info and has some implementation details
01:07:19  <xQR> it's not exactly simple :P
01:11:32  <Wolf01> 'night
01:11:43  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
01:16:33  <frogzilla> You can say that again. But it looks like the really hard work was done by you. All I would have to do is use your framework to extract data from the server and add the actual goals.
01:17:05  <xQR> depends on how much you want to differ from the existing servers, because xShunter is shipped with a GoalSystem plug-in already
01:17:27  <xQR> if you want to have goals by performance rating, company value or a mixture it's already in there
01:17:59  <xQR> it comes with 14 plug-ins or so and they are all provided in source code (C#) so you could also modify them to your needs
01:19:15  <xQR> you can even modify plug-in source code at runtime and reload it without having to restart anything ;)
01:20:11  <xQR> but i don't think that's the right channel to discuss it, if you want to chat about it come to #OpenTTD.Chat - there you also find admins of n-ice, BTPro, Vulturis, Novapolis and others to chat with
01:21:31  <frogzilla> The geek chat for the people that make OpenTTD fun. I'll join once I am ready to contribute. Right now I'm experimenting with my linux install to get started.
01:21:48  <xQR> sure ;)
01:22:19  <xQR> but don't be unfair, OpenTTD vanilla is also fun and none of our additions would make sense without the great basic OpenTTD server ;)
01:23:02  <frogzilla> Agreed. But the reason I can't stop playing is because so many people added new stuff to the basic game.
01:23:23  <xQR> and many of the addon features shouldn't be in the vanilla server anyway, e.g. IRC server connections or achievements are really specific things
01:24:26  <xQR> my greatest hope for the basic game is that more GameScript features are added, one thing i am waiting for the most is:
01:24:42  <xQR> our CityBuilder script would benefit from that a lot
01:25:11  <xQR> right now we cannot prevent players from building in certain areas, so to realize protected areas (around a claimed city) we do an ugly hack to simply revert all actions a player does there
01:25:24  <xQR> so if he built a piece of rail we force him to remove it right after
01:25:33  <xQR> but as you can imagine such a solution can never become really stable
01:25:41  <xQR> it's more like a 90% solution
01:27:51  <frogzilla> I understand what you mean.
01:28:09  <frogzilla> It works but it's not how it should be.
01:28:11  *** zeknurn [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:28:40  <xQR> yep
01:28:52  *** zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
01:29:42  <xQR> and of course there is no way to revert it if a player destroyed a house in the city - the only thing we can do is punish him (1st time warning and move to spectators, 2nd time kick, 3rd time ban)
01:30:27  <xQR> so it's nothing but a workaround right now, we would really need area protection features provided by OpenTTD itself to do it properly
01:32:49  *** cyph3r [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
01:33:57  *** Batt [] has joined #openttd
01:34:13  <frogzilla> I never thought about that but it would really suck if someone destroys your town in city builder.
01:36:23  <xQR> definitely
01:37:32  <V453000> I can imagine that discipline is a massive issue on servers where players change quickly
01:39:23  <xQR> not more or less than any other griefer action
01:40:08  <V453000> well yeah sure but if you have majority of veteran players then you dont get those :P
01:40:11  <xQR> actually i think i see it rarely compared to people who run a a road vehicle crash train
01:40:22  <V453000> :D
01:40:35  <V453000> I dont remember the last time I saw any sabotage on our server
01:40:39  <xQR> or reserve land in front of where another player is currently building
01:40:43  <xQR> and such nasty things
01:41:30  <V453000> I know what you mean
01:42:00  <V453000> using newGRFs and stuff is the first step to get rid of those people usually :)
01:42:49  <xQR> unfortunately it is also the first step to get rid of many "normal" players too
01:42:53  <frogzilla> I just updated the server to the newest version. Just wanted to share that.
01:43:10  <xQR> downloading through OpenTTD has become very simple, but many players aren't aware of those servers with a yellow dot that are sorted down in the list
01:43:10  <V453000> players who cant click "check content" arent normal
01:43:32  <xQR> yeah but they don't scroll down far enough in the first place
01:43:40  <frogzilla> Yeah. I love how BtPro keeps their servers newGRF free. NewGRFs are fun, but make same too unpredictable for inexperienced players.
01:43:42  <xQR> why should they bother, when there are so many "green" servers?
01:43:54  <xQR> yeah same reason for n-ice servers
01:44:21  <xQR>
01:44:33  <xQR> it's also the reason why these servers have a lot players
01:44:40  <xQR> of course it also means many newbies are playing there
01:44:51  <xQR> but that isn't a bad thing imho, i got a heart for newbies <3
01:45:09  <V453000> hm, I would much rather have 10 people with brainz than 100 without :)
01:45:34  <xQR> but it's not easy to accumulate those 10 players with brainz on your server
01:46:28  <V453000> it is if you care about the server well :)
01:47:05  <frogzilla> xQR, I just joined Want to talk about xShunter?
01:47:19  <xQR> yeah i see you :)
01:48:06  *** pugi [] has quit []
02:12:09  *** Flygon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:17:32  *** DDR [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:37:59  *** Elukka [] has quit []
02:40:44  *** DDR [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
02:42:31  *** matt_d [] has joined #openttd
02:42:38  <matt_d> afternoon
02:48:22  <matt_d> just got ottd working on my mac <3 you guys rock for making this work
02:49:19  <Snail> happy you like it
02:49:43  <planetmaker> :-)
03:03:44  <matt_d> lol, trying to remeber signal setups. oh dear. what does mr sawyer think of your project?
03:05:41  <planetmaker> not much
03:07:55  *** frogzilla [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
03:25:27  *** ST2 [~ST2@] has joined #openttd
03:28:13  *** xT2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:28:13  *** ST2 is now known as xT2
03:59:29  <matt_d> so, as a stupid question, what's left to do with openttd? and what are you guys working on next?
04:06:05  *** wakou2 [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
04:13:09  <Snail> matt_d: check the forums to have an idea of what's going on
04:13:55  <matt_d> yeah ive just been reading the wiki
04:27:27  *** matt_d [] has quit [Quit: matt_d]
04:33:06  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye !]
04:36:29  *** Biolunar__ [] has joined #openttd
04:43:44  *** Biolunar_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:51:54  *** St3f [~Anonymous@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:52:10  *** St3f [~Anonymous@] has joined #openttd
05:22:37  *** kero [] has quit [Quit: kero]
05:33:03  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Quit: /set quit_message]
05:59:09  *** Pikka [] has joined #openttd
06:01:13  *** Rhamphoryncus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:22:39  *** Rhamphoryncus [] has joined #openttd
06:46:01  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
06:46:16  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
06:48:33  *** matt_d [] has joined #openttd
06:55:02  *** Snail [] has quit [Quit: Snail]
07:50:55  *** sla_ro|master [sla_romas@] has joined #openttd
07:56:04  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
07:57:51  <andythenorth> Pikka ponk
07:57:59  <Pikka> does it
07:58:36  <andythenorth> only on wednesdays
07:58:43  <andythenorth> have you done it yet?
07:58:53  <andythenorth> I need a new trainset
07:59:14  <Pikka> not quite
07:59:17  * andythenorth not doing annoying at all
07:59:18  <Pikka> getting there
07:59:48  <andythenorth> like British Rail
07:59:51  <Pikka> yes
07:59:58  <Pikka> want to draw wagons for me?
08:00:03  <andythenorth> hmm
08:00:06  <andythenorth> I would have said no
08:00:10  <andythenorth> but I think I'll say yes
08:00:17  <andythenorth> get V453000 to do it too
08:00:25  <Pikka> you have definitely identified the options there
08:00:37  <andythenorth> I could have just not answered :P
08:00:41  <andythenorth> schrodinganswer
08:00:42  <Pikka> true
08:00:47  <andythenorth> what do you need?
08:01:00  <Pikka> all the wagons :P
08:01:05  <Pikka> so basically, anything you like
08:01:24  <Pikka> within set parameters
08:02:32  <andythenorth> I'd better have a template I guess
08:02:34  <andythenorth> and a list :P
08:02:47  <Pikka> you gotta have a template or two, jim
08:07:19  <andythenorth> biab
08:12:44  <Pikka> k
08:15:53  *** tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
08:17:03  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
08:19:07  <Pikka> hasta la forum pm, andythenorth
08:19:38  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
08:33:02  <andythenorth> k got those
08:33:14  <andythenorth> will bbl, children-ish things to do today
08:34:47  <andythenorth> Pikka: this is how all grfs sprites should have always looked imo
08:34:54  <andythenorth> not that I'm being absolutist or anything
08:35:10  <Pikka> of course not
08:35:24  <Pikka> have fun with the children-ish things
08:37:11  *** Varazir [] has joined #openttd
08:38:35  <Varazir> Hello How to I get min min proffit ?
08:41:19  <__ln__> and in english?
08:42:37  <Varazir> ops
08:42:47  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
08:42:50  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
08:43:17  <Alberth> moin
08:43:26  <SpComb>
08:43:52  <Varazir> sorry, I have the game in swedish so I have to try to translate :P well problem is that I have played thrue the game 2 times now and only get 900 points du to minimal profit are 0
08:48:21  <Alberth> oh, you're playing for getting maximal Performance Rating ?
08:48:35  <Varazir> yes
08:49:02  <Varazir> everything ells is at 100
08:49:07  <Alberth> you have read the tooltip explaining what the rating expresses?
08:49:41  <Varazir> I have like 8KKK right now year 2001
08:50:15  <Alberth>
08:50:28  <Varazir> thanks
08:50:34  <Alberth> that rating seems to be about income of individual vehicles
08:51:06  <Alberth> if you have 1 vehicle with 0 income, that rating is 0
08:51:45  <Alberth> I never played for max rating  :)
08:53:58  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
08:54:37  <andythenorth> Pikka: ho, the base wagons make this easier ;)
08:54:47  <andythenorth> I overlooked those earlier
09:00:02  <Supercheese> good night
09:00:04  *** Supercheese [~Password4@] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]]
09:11:44  *** cyph3r [] has joined #openttd
09:26:58  <Terkhen> good morning
09:35:39  *** Flygon [] has joined #openttd
09:36:00  <Alberth> mornink
09:48:25  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
10:04:03  *** andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
10:07:13  *** St3f [~Anonymous@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:07:50  *** St3f [~Anonymous@] has joined #openttd
10:27:48  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
10:34:40  *** wakou2 [] has joined #openttd
10:38:38  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
10:58:33  <planetmaker> moin
10:59:57  *** DDR [~chatzilla@] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.]
11:03:25  <frosch123> moin pm :)
11:07:08  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
11:10:25  <planetmaker> so... where are plural forms defined... I probably just don't see them in strgen/* ?
11:10:52  <planetmaker> hm, tables of course
11:14:13  <frosch123> "strgen -export-plurals" is easiest way
11:14:23  <frosch123> unless you want to add a new one :)
11:14:39  <planetmaker> ^^ that. For scottish gaelic. It doesn't fit yet our schemes
11:14:55  <frosch123> so tables/bla and strings.cpp
11:15:05  <frosch123> what archaic form does it use though?
11:15:15  <frosch123> i thought we already had all thinkable ones :)
11:15:20  <planetmaker> (1,11), (2,12), (3..19), (other)
11:15:44  <planetmaker> ehm... (3..10,13..19)
11:16:12  <frosch123> repeated every hundreds?
11:16:35  <planetmaker> I'm not 100% sure, but I understand not repeated
11:16:44  <planetmaker> the translator gives me as correct
11:17:09  <frosch123> wow, what site is that :o
11:17:22  <planetmaker> didn't know it before either. But ... interesting :-)
11:19:02  <planetmaker> but maybe interesting for Alberth as well
11:21:19  <Alberth> somewhat :)
11:22:11  *** Elukka [] has joined #openttd
11:23:46  <planetmaker> We have that e-mail request for a month or so already... but I didn't yet look at the site thoroughly before...
11:24:20  <frosch123> well, i was looking for a site like that half a year ago
11:24:33  <frosch123> now i can confirm that latvian is correct in ottd :)
11:25:01  <Alberth> phew :)
11:25:02  <frosch123> the special thing about that page is that it gives the plural forms an  order
11:25:23  <frosch123> like, most languages put special cases at the front, and the general case at the end
11:25:40  <frosch123> but latvian has "1,21,31,..." "other" "0"
11:25:45  *** fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
11:25:47  <frosch123> i.e. the general case in the middle
11:28:37  <Alberth> ha, eints is smarter than me :p
11:28:43  <planetmaker> :D
11:30:17  <Alberth> It throws me out because I made an error in the access rights :)
11:32:40  *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@] has joined #openttd
11:33:31  *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@] has quit []
11:35:48  *** tycoondemon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:36:14  <planetmaker> so... like suffices?
11:36:24  <planetmaker> (and of course the appropriate change in the lang file)
11:36:51  <Alberth> wt3 too
11:37:28  <planetmaker> what does wt3 need other than the plural form in strgen and the lang file?
11:37:36  <planetmaker> manual update?
11:38:02  <Alberth> oh, perhaps it does work, I am confused with NML
11:39:08  <planetmaker> oh, you might well be right there...
11:39:10  <frosch123> planetmaker: it needs someone to compile strgen on the server and install it into wt3
11:39:20  <planetmaker> so Alberth is right :-)
11:40:15  <frosch123> planetmaker: you use more "special case" in the description than for other forms
11:42:49  <planetmaker> maybe better that way?
11:42:53  <planetmaker> (updated)
11:44:04  <planetmaker> and... would it be safe to commit - or wait till someone's here who can update strgen on CF?
11:45:36  <frosch123> i think "Four forms: special cases for 1 and 11, 2 and 12, and 3..19." would match the other descriptions
11:46:05  <frosch123> i guess committing gaelic.txt is not safe
11:46:26  <frosch123> committing strings and strgen_tables is a prerequisite for updating wt3
11:46:36  <planetmaker> no translation update done to scottish gaelic today
11:46:38  <frosch123> i would think gaelic can only be updated after wt3 update
11:46:53  <planetmaker> so you recommend two? Ok
11:46:54  <frosch123> planetmaker: but what would wt3 do with a plural form it does not know about?
11:47:14  <planetmaker> ErrBuggerOff or so ;-)
11:51:07  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
11:51:16  * Alberth expects ErrCrash, tbh
11:52:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25078 /trunk/src (strings.cpp table/strgen_tables.h) (2013-03-10 11:02:11 UTC)
11:52:18  <DorpsGek> -Add: New plural form to be used by Scottish Gaelic (1,11; 2,12; 3..10, 13..19; other)
11:53:20  <Eddi|zuHause> there are the weirdest languages out there :p
11:53:39  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
11:56:47  *** Pensacola [] has joined #openttd
11:59:06  <frosch123> i like the forms which follow the one - few - many rule :)
11:59:31  <planetmaker> yeah, that's a counting scheme which I feel is nice
11:59:38  <planetmaker> one, two, many is easy :-P
12:01:06  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
12:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know... somehow the quieter the computer gets, the more every tiny sound annoys me
12:01:41  <frosch123> your music is not loud anough
12:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i know. but amarok always screws up horribly whenever i move my music collection to another disk
12:12:05  *** Mucht [] has joined #openttd
12:20:18  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25079 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/gaelic.txt (2013-03-10 11:30:12 UTC)
12:20:19  <DorpsGek> -Feature-ish: Use the new, correct plural form in the Scottish Gaelic translation, now that WT3 is updated with that knowledge
12:25:04  *** tycoondemon [] has joined #openttd
12:28:55  *** valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
12:43:31  *** ZxBiohazardZx [] has joined #openttd
12:44:30  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:04:39  *** matt_d [] has quit [Quit: matt_d]
13:10:40  *** ZxBiohazardZx [] has quit [Quit: Pull the pin and count to what?]
13:24:46  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
13:25:16  <andythenorth> Pikka I am considering trucks that get slower in the 80s
13:25:19  <andythenorth> due to speed limiters :P
13:25:52  * andythenorth is old enough to remember motorways with wall-to-wall trucks in every lane, at 80mph+
13:26:46  *** oskari892 [] has joined #openttd
13:27:46  *** zeknurn [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:27:56  *** kero [] has joined #openttd
13:28:28  *** zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
13:28:34  <Alberth> stupid realism trickery :p
13:34:18  *** oskari89 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:39:02  *** ntoskrnl [] has joined #openttd
13:41:06  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
13:47:27  <kero> well at some degrees, OpenTTD also includes some degree of realism
13:47:50  <kero> if not, why use trains, trams, buses inspired from real life ? :)
13:48:19  <kero> the point, I think, is not realism or not, it is more, what degree of realism
13:50:06  *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@] has joined #openttd
13:51:54  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
13:53:54  <Alberth> realism is definitely a source of inspiration, but realism is not a reason to do or not do something; it has to make sense from a game perspective, ie be fun to play with
13:54:45  <Alberth> and having obstacles is often good, as it forces the player to think a way around them
13:56:24  <kero> That's true. That's why I speak about "challenges" in the post where I answer to V453000.
13:57:31  <kero> But the "funnyness" of a limitation depends of each's gameplay style.
13:59:49  <kero> PBS also removed a limitation, making it easier to build junction and terminal station, and a lot of other things (and for those who aim to realism, making it more realistic). But nobody considers it perverted the gameplay.
14:00:05  <Alberth> but OpenTTD does not claim to support every possible play style
14:00:29  <kero> Sure, and it couldn't.
14:00:31  <Alberth> Signals are too difficult for many
14:00:51  <Alberth> if you see how much new users struggle with them
14:00:55  <kero> But the discussion with V453000 comes from as he presents as "normal" gameplay what is just its gameplay.
14:01:44  <Alberth> everybody thinks his way of playing is the only style :)
14:02:02  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
14:02:09  <kero> Actually, no. Some are smart enough to see that they defend a gameplay which is only theirs :)
14:02:12  <Alberth> and thus OpenTTD should fully support that style :)
14:02:35  <Alberth> hi andy
14:02:51  <kero> Anyway ...
14:03:14  <andythenorth> lo
14:04:13  <Alberth> I wrote a little configuration doc, where you should add the other packages that we use, I think
14:08:39  *** Ristovski [~rafael@] has joined #openttd
14:08:46  <Pikka> andythenorth, I don't imagine olden-day trucks doing 80mph were very heavily laden
14:08:56  <Pikka> ye olde truke
14:09:22  <Pikka> so in openttd terms, probably better not to have them that fast :]
14:10:00  <frosch123> maybe you can build your private off-track next to the highway
14:10:12  <frosch123> and let your heqs overtake the trucks at 100 mph
14:10:45  <frosch123> andythenorth: heqs needs faster vehicles :p
14:12:16  <Pikka> unless you're going to enforce "realistic" acceleration parameters, so in theory your trucks can do 80 but in practice they're chugging along at 35 :)
14:12:51  <frosch123> what about downhill?
14:13:05  <Pikka> only if they can roll over on the corner at the bottom
14:13:15  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
14:13:29  <frosch123> is that a problem of the truck? or of the people passing at the bottom?
14:14:54  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
14:19:00  <Pikka> I don't know, frosch123
14:19:17  <Pikka> btw andy, best movie ever:
14:19:25  *** oskari892 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:23:59  *** Mucht [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:34:13  *** tycoondemon [] has quit []
14:34:37  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
14:52:03  <andythenorth> Pikka: +1 I saw that years ago, on an afternoon when I should have been in school
14:52:24  * andythenorth didn't go to school much
14:52:25  <andythenorth> boring
14:52:41  <andythenorth> Pikka: 2nd best
14:53:08  <V453000> who is PinkOboe?
14:53:23  <V453000> he seems to talk sense
14:54:31  <andythenorth> who do you think it is?
14:54:45  <andythenorth> he is far away, but at the same time, nearby
14:55:27  <andythenorth> also wtf, the best movie ever is actually this
14:56:42  *** oskari892 [] has joined #openttd
14:58:59  *** tycoondemon [] has joined #openttd
15:04:20  *** oskari89 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:14:22  <V453000> dono :)
15:19:47  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
15:23:42  <V453000> CREATIVITY CONTEST!
15:23:49  <V453000> what would you use as overlay at
15:23:54  <V453000> currently only the dark blue lines
15:24:16  <V453000> winner wins Nutjob Award March 2013
15:24:59  <V453000> question is how to illustrate the directions of the rail junctions
15:25:36  <V453000> first entry - unicorns, second entry - beer, third entry - ???
15:34:55  <frosch123> simcity2000 always ends the same for me
15:35:08  <V453000> unicorns<
15:35:11  <frosch123> i have no idea how i should get the funds to rebuild the powerplant after 50 years
15:35:11  <V453000> ?
15:38:03  <frosch123> and it lacks an undo know
15:38:11  <frosch123> the terraforming tool is totally crap :s
15:45:37  <frosch123> V453000: <- light colours look nice than dark lines
15:46:00  <frosch123> also make them use the light water cycle, so it looks like spray
15:46:02  <V453000> nice idea
15:46:08  <frosch123> like the fish ships do
15:46:17  <V453000> I think animated colours would look weird there
15:46:28  <frosch123> is the water not animated?
15:46:35  <V453000> the water is
15:46:44  <frosch123> well, you have two water anim cycles
15:46:46  <frosch123> one dark, one light
15:46:51  <V453000> I know
15:48:41  <frosch123> btw. a horse and a cow do not average to two unicorns
15:54:46  <andythenorth> ugh
15:55:05  <andythenorth> Squid needs to say 'units of livestock' not 't' for refit strings :(
16:01:39  <V453000> WTF frosch123 ? :D
16:02:01  <frosch123> just in case you want to trick me
16:02:14  *** pugi [] has joined #openttd
16:03:04  <V453000> point taken :D
16:03:06  <V453000> I have to think about this
16:08:52  <andythenorth> V453000: nice riverbanks :)
16:09:13  <V453000> :)
16:15:01  *** Meechmunchie [~meechmunc@] has joined #openttd
16:24:25  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
16:26:48  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
16:27:24  *** valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
16:29:17  <V453000> mygod
16:29:27  <V453000> why do 2 of the 4 animated bright water colours look the same
16:29:29  <V453000> ._.
16:29:55  <V453000> I mean more like 2 pairs of 2
16:34:20  *** oskari892 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:37:24  <Pikka> V453000:  This then was the enigma. Who was Eccles?
16:40:47  <V453000> what do you mean?
16:43:49  <Pikka> it's hard to tell
16:44:02  <Pikka> I should go to bed or something
16:44:14  <V453000> :D
16:46:11  *** Pikka [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:57:30  *** Meechmunchie [~meechmunc@] has quit [Quit: Robots have shiny metal posteriors which should not be bitten.]
17:24:34  <NGC3982> My computer is way to slow (or broken) for Sim City 5.
17:24:55  <NGC3982> It's a workstation laptop with a core2duo CPU. I still wish to play some older Sim City version. Got tip'?
17:32:54  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
17:37:08  *** Snail [] has joined #openttd
17:37:40  <michi_cc> NGC3982: 4 of course.
17:37:53  <NGC3982> Good, since that is what i am installing right now.
17:39:03  <michi_cc> Hopefully with Rush Hour extension (or Deluxe).
17:39:53  <NGC3982> :O
17:41:18  <michi_cc> And the must-have mod: (the very latest NAM isn't yet on this site for download, but I don't know a link without registering for that).
17:44:27  <NGC3982> oh, ok
17:45:38  <peter1138>
17:45:43  <peter1138> that's the version you want
17:47:17  <V453000> LOL
17:47:56  <V453000> 10/10
17:55:08  <frosch123> what's in the bottom right?
17:55:13  <frosch123> a tyrannosaurus?
17:57:00  <peter1138> yeah
17:57:04  <peter1138> disasters :)
18:03:23  <Alberth> peter1138:
18:03:39  <peter1138> yup
18:04:28  <Alberth> you can play it at apparently
18:04:46  <peter1138> had it installed anyay
18:04:50  <peter1138> *anyway
18:05:15  <Alberth> the original with airplane crash and godzilla? :)
18:05:35  <Alberth> they removed those in Micropolis :(
18:05:42  <peter1138> i had a plane crash
18:05:44  <peter1138> just now
18:05:50  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
18:05:56  <Alberth> hi Wolf01
18:06:16  <Wolf01> hello :D
18:10:29  *** Pensacola [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:28:30  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
18:29:40  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
18:43:23  <NGC3982> michi_cc: I don't understand how i loan money.
18:44:11  *** ntoskrnl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:57:11  *** oskari892 [] has joined #openttd
19:01:57  *** oskari89 [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
19:06:46  *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:27:57  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
19:35:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25080 /trunk/src/lang (6 files in 2 dirs) (2013-03-10 18:45:35 UTC)
19:35:47  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:35:48  <DorpsGek> croatian - 4 changes by VoyagerOne
19:35:49  <DorpsGek> german - 3 changes by planetmaker
19:35:50  <DorpsGek> italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv
19:35:51  <DorpsGek> romanian - 9 changes by mariush
19:35:52  <DorpsGek> gaelic - 1 changes by planetmaker
19:35:53  <DorpsGek> welsh - 28 changes by kazzie
19:45:33  <kero> Maybee somebody can explain me what is wrong with this squirrel code ? : "table <- { };" I have an error where it says "expected '='
19:54:14  *** fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
19:56:20  *** oskari892 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:56:54  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
19:58:28  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you meant ==?
19:58:38  <Eddi|zuHause> (i don't know squirrel that well)
19:59:02  <kero> no, I wanted to attribute the values to the table. But I found how to do it
19:59:34  <kero> Would be easier if that language was a little better documented ... It's a pain to understand how it works.
20:00:27  *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:6979:842d] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20:02:37  *** Ristovski [~rafael@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:02:49  *** Ristovski [~rafael@] has joined #openttd
20:03:42  <__ln__>
20:08:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it's an easy question to refresh your entry level calculus knowledge :)
20:09:00  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
20:12:03  *** M1zera [] has joined #openttd
20:13:11  <andythenorth> hmm
20:13:16  <andythenorth> the 2.0 thread runs on and on
20:13:20  <andythenorth> well it's nice that people care
20:13:39  <Eddi|zuHause> threads tend to do that
20:14:07  <fonsinchen> I won't comment on the cargodist thread now ...
20:18:41  * fonsinchen should lower the defaults for linkgraph recalc interval and linkgraph recalc time
20:19:15  <fonsinchen> No one has such big link graphs it seems.
20:20:19  <planetmaker> so far ;-)
20:26:33  <fonsinchen> I'm just running some coop games from the public server archive with 2 days interval and 1 day time (i.e. minimum settings). No problem so far.
20:33:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think games made without cargodist are a good test
20:33:18  <Kitty> hey
20:33:27  <fonsinchen> true
20:33:27  <Kitty> can anyone recommend a 3 way junction for 4 tracks ?
20:33:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Kitty: what do you need so many tracks for?
20:34:20  <Kitty> capacity
20:35:01  <planetmaker> Kitty, there's no standard for that size anymore really, if you mean 4 tracks per direction
20:35:09  <Kitty> no
20:35:12  <Kitty> 4 tracks total
20:35:16  <planetmaker> basically scale up a 2-tracked version, though
20:35:16  <Kitty> as in
20:35:30  <Kitty> 2 tracks in each direction, and 3 sets of 2 tracks in each direction...
20:36:24  <andythenorth> ships
20:36:34  <planetmaker> oh, so just a "normal" coop junction ;-) Have a look at our savegame archive or the junctionary
20:36:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd usually run two parallel double track lines instead of a four-track-line, if capacity is really at its limits
20:36:54  <planetmaker> and
20:37:19  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, that's what I understood what is asked for really
20:37:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i never build coop-style networks, though :p
20:38:48  <Eddi|zuHause> and no two junctions ever look alike
20:39:00  <Eddi|zuHause> looks like this then:,%2013.%20Apr%202027.png (12MB)
20:40:17  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I can also never recall two junctions ever being the same ;-)
20:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause> how difficult would it be to strip all the YACD stuff from the savegame to load it in cargodist?
20:42:10  <andythenorth> how do I use TTD_STR_QUANTITY_LIVESTOCK as a substring in nml?
20:42:38  <andythenorth> nmlc ERROR: "fish.nml", line 2797: Expected a (literal) string
20:43:06  <V453000> Literal_Unicorns_Totally-Not-Cows
20:43:14  <V453000> : 1
20:43:18  <andythenorth>         additional_text:                string(STR_BUY_MENU_TEXT, string(STR_LOG_TUG), string(STR_GENERIC_REFIT_SUBTYPE_BUY_MENU_INFO,80,240,400,TTD_STR_QUANTITY_LIVESTOCK));
20:43:18  <V453000> ;
20:43:29  <andythenorth> move the TTD_STR outside of string() ?
20:43:46  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: put another string() around it?
20:43:53  <andythenorth> that fails
20:43:56  <andythenorth> tried it :)
20:44:22  <Eddi|zuHause> how would you do it in NFO=
20:44:24  <Eddi|zuHause> ?
20:44:41  <andythenorth> this works
20:44:42  <andythenorth>         additional_text:                string(STR_BUY_MENU_TEXT, string(STR_LOG_TUG), string(STR_GENERIC_REFIT_SUBTYPE_BUY_MENU_INFO,80,240,400), TTD_STR_QUANTITY_LIVESTOCK);
20:44:54  <andythenorth> in NFO I'd never try and construct such complicated strings :P
20:45:20  <Eddi|zuHause> so your nesting was wrong?
20:45:28  <Eddi|zuHause> how do the strings look?
20:46:17  <andythenorth> great :)
20:46:30  <Eddi|zuHause> *slap*
20:46:32  <andythenorth> the nesting was fine for a string I defined
20:46:36  <andythenorth> and very wrong for a TTD string
20:46:43  <andythenorth> hmm
20:46:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean what is the content of the texts
20:46:53  <andythenorth> that's going to be troublesome if I need to use both :(
20:47:08  <andythenorth> let's not use both :P
20:47:36  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
20:47:40  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
20:47:54  <fonsinchen> Stripping stuff from a savegame requires modifying YACD to increment the savegame version to something "known" while at the same time changing the save/load blocks to drop the unwanted stuff and add the stuff trunk has added in the mean time.
20:47:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're just doing something wrong
20:48:05  <Eddi|zuHause> but my crystal ball is in the shop
20:48:17  <V453000> ALL WRONG andy
20:48:18  <V453000> give up
20:48:22  <fonsinchen> (Provided that trunk has overtaken YACD in save/load numbering by now)
20:48:23  <andythenorth> go read the spec :)
20:48:29  <andythenorth> that's how I found the answer ;)
20:48:35  <andythenorth>
20:48:43  <andythenorth> first line above the table
20:48:45  <andythenorth> docs ftw :P
20:48:58  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you still did not tell me the strings!!
20:49:08  <andythenorth> hang on
20:49:14  <andythenorth> you want the rendered result in game?
20:49:17  <V453000> #andythetroll
20:49:17  <andythenorth> or the local strings?
20:49:26  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the things that are in english.lng
20:49:40  <andythenorth> STR_GENERIC_REFIT_SUBTYPE_BUY_MENU_INFO                         :{}{BLACK}Refittable capacities: {GOLD}{COMMA}, {COMMA} or {COMMA}{STRING}
20:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: may be a NML bug
20:51:27  <andythenorth> really?
20:51:43  <andythenorth> it's consistent with other handling of string()
20:52:09  <andythenorth> wrapping a TTD_STR_BLAH in string() fails in nml, based on my limited experience
20:53:07  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it shouldn't be in the first parameter of a string()
20:53:29  *** Ristovski [~rafael@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:53:38  <Eddi|zuHause> but why it works in the outer string() as parameter, but not in the innner string() as parameter, may be a bug
20:54:08  *** Ristovski [~rafael@] has joined #openttd
20:55:54  <andythenorth> ok
20:58:59  <Eddi|zuHause> of course it's valid to move the parameters to the outer string...
20:59:50  <Wolf01> bye
20:59:55  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:01:38  <andythenorth> I can't figure out if FISH builds twice, or just prints errors to stdout twice :P
21:05:09  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I think the bug is in my code
21:05:21  <andythenorth> I think I had a false positive earlier when I thought it worked
21:06:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make may produce intermediate targets twice if two things depend on them but the intermediate target fails
21:06:09  <andythenorth> that makes sense thanks
21:06:28  <Eddi|zuHause> if the intermediate target is not a file, that is
21:07:18  <Eddi|zuHause> happens with CETS as well, but i wasn't yet bothered enough to research how to fix it
21:11:11  <andythenorth> I've given up trying to use the TTD strings
21:11:19  <andythenorth> I've made my own, unmaintainable, non-translated ones
21:11:27  <andythenorth> with no way to handle different weight units :P
21:26:28  *** oskari89 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:27:01  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
21:29:15  *** kero [] has quit [Quit: kero]
21:36:26  <andythenorth> now what eh?
21:40:58  <andythenorth> hi V453000 so are you going to fork CHIPS for a NUTS station set?
21:41:07  <andythenorth> what goes with NUTS? o_O
21:41:23  <V453000> yeah I probably will after the next NUTS release
21:41:26  <V453000> (1.4.2013)
21:41:39  <V453000> my minion seems to have disappeared, but that was to be expected :)
21:41:41  <andythenorth> can I close your request then, without hurting your feelings? :)
21:41:49  <andythenorth> (CHIPS)
21:41:54  <V453000> I guess
21:42:03  <andythenorth> yay
21:42:05  <andythenorth> zero ticket count
21:42:11  <V453000> :)
21:56:19  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
22:08:56  *** Ristovski [~rafael@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:25:50  *** Flygon [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:31:33  *** Flygon [] has joined #openttd
22:32:49  <andythenorth> so new CHIPS then?
22:35:20  *** Flygon [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:36:02  <andythenorth> there's no way to loop in c pre-processor, right?
22:37:17  *** Flygon_ [] has joined #openttd
22:43:06  *** M1zera [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:54:34  *** Flygon_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:55:55  *** sla_ro|master [sla_romas@] has quit [Quit: connection reset by myself]
22:57:19  <Terkhen> good night
23:00:42  *** ZxBiohazardZx [] has joined #openttd
23:02:36  <andythenorth> bye
23:02:38  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
23:08:34  *** kero [] has joined #openttd
23:12:51  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:15:17  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:18:37  *** tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
23:18:40  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
23:23:54  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:24:40  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:26:30  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:47:01  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
23:49:56  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has joined #openttd
23:53:45  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:56:41  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk