Log for #openttd on 23rd March 2013:
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00:02:43  <HellTiger> yes it is
00:02:55  <HellTiger> i had a confirm
00:03:34  <Der_Herr> gn8
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00:06:19  <HellTiger> how do i get wood?
00:32:44  <HellTiger> my lorry didnt supply wood!
00:41:01  <HellTiger> anyone?! :|
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06:34:40  <wahyuhadhi> hi anyone, i am new in this game. i have receive an own made of scenario of my own city from a friend. no GRF in it. How could i put grf into the scenario?
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08:48:13  <Wolf01> hello :E
08:48:15  <Wolf01> :D
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09:20:54  <Wolf01> hi Alberth
09:21:01  <Alberth> hi Wolf01
09:21:09  <Alberth> did I miss anything important?
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09:23:34  <V453000> Alberth: Breaking news! A dozen of unicorns escaped from frosch's garage! They are being pursued by the policemen but they keep getting distracted by the rainbows everywhere. Please help the pursue!
09:23:52  <Alberth> oh dear!
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10:03:54  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: do they look anything like this?
10:04:15  <Eddi|zuHause> ("we lost this unicorn. if you have seen it, you may be under influence of drugs. visit our drug-help-center.")
10:04:16  <V453000> plus excessive amount of rainbow, yeah
10:04:28  <V453000> :D nice
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11:24:01  <frosch123> V453000: he, i always wondered what to do with my garage when i have no car :)
11:24:12  <V453000> :DDD
11:24:27  <V453000> you have a garage but not a car? :D what for?
11:24:34  <V453000> apart from dozen of unicorns
11:25:55  <Wolf01> my garage is filled with old furniture, wooden planks and tools
11:25:55  <frosch123> psst!
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11:28:05  <V453000> unless unicorns, your garage is boring Wolf01
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11:29:08  <Wolf01> meh, the past two days there were a sunny weather, so I thought "saturday I should left my car open under the sun"... where is my sun?
11:30:19  <Alberth> here too; bright sunny weather while working, and grey dark windy weather in the weekend :(
11:33:46  <V453000> could someone please have a look at this? :)
11:36:18  <frosch123> likely related to fs#5497
11:36:33  <Wolf01> I felt gradual loading indicator was broken too, but I only stared at those of the passengers line so I can't tell if it starts at 100% because it's already full or because it's broken
11:37:17  <V453000> the white % show correctly
11:37:20  <Alberth> there also have been changes in how cargo is allocated to vehicles recently
11:37:31  <V453000> sprites/cargo info of the vehicle dont
11:37:44  <V453000> yeah I wrote out those revisions
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11:46:20  <Wolf01> uhuh my new wii-u with monster hunter 3 is just arrived
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12:08:47  <frosch123> does it have a plugin to hunt unicorns?
12:09:37  <Ristovski> hi
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12:12:26  <Alberth> o/
12:12:26  <LordAro> moin all
12:12:43  <LordAro> hai Alberth
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12:20:09  <HellTiger> hello. where can i see how many waggons my train can pull?
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12:21:11  <frosch123> downhill about 127
12:21:48  <V453000> LOL
12:22:23  <LordAro> there'll probably be a wiki page somewhere
12:23:16  <frosch123> HellTiger: just try it
12:23:37  <frosch123> there are so many variables in that question, like track profile, wagon load and so on
12:25:29  <HellTiger> ok
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12:29:24  <Alberth> you can even pull 127 wagons up-hill, it's just a tad slow at 1km/h :p
12:36:46  <HellTiger> ah :>
12:53:23  <HellTiger> hm there was some technical blue window
12:53:29  <HellTiger> but i was on fast forward
12:53:31  <HellTiger> and its gone
12:53:36  <HellTiger> i could not find it again in the menu
12:53:39  <HellTiger> or in message log
12:53:48  <frosch123> it's a engine preview
12:53:50  <HellTiger> but it was about railway
12:54:04  <frosch123> sometimes you are asked whether you want to test a new engine one year in advance
12:54:16  <HellTiger> ah
12:56:12  <frosch123> colour coding is nice, isn't it :)
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13:25:50  <LordAro> it has to be said, however, if while on fast forward the engine preview window flashes away too quickly, you haven't built enough! :P
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13:30:04  <Alberth> instead of fast-forward, watch the flow of the trains for possible improvements :)
13:33:58  <HellTiger> can i assign collecting routes to a group`?
13:34:28  <LordAro> find 'shared orders' on the wiki
13:34:46  <HellTiger> thzx
13:42:14  <HellTiger> hm i try to demolish lorry station, but it says i have to demolish first lorry station
13:42:17  <HellTiger> i tried all bombs
13:42:19  <HellTiger> none worked
13:42:26  <HellTiger> on mouse over there stands demolish building
13:43:48  <michi_cc> Is it a a drive-through station instead of an dead-end station by chance?
13:43:55  <HellTiger> yes
13:43:59  <HellTiger> drive through michi_cc
13:44:48  <michi_cc> Then you might have built it on a town-owned road and you need to use the remove tools instead of the demolish tool. No idea though why it doesn't give a proper error message.
13:45:51  <Zuu> Eg. pick the drive through station to build and then press the R key to toggle removal.
13:46:59  <HellTiger> ok
13:47:34  <HellTiger> with R key it worked!
13:47:35  <HellTiger> thanks
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14:02:27  <Superuser> puts "Hello world"
14:02:40  <Superuser> -- why has my patch not been accepted yet?
14:02:52  <Superuser> it is trivial to apply a patch
14:09:21  <frosch123> team up with oberhÃŒmer, and fork
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14:12:20  <__ln__> Superuser: you only submitted that two weeks ago
14:13:42  <__ln__> Superuser: expect 4..12 months response time for trivial patches
14:18:49  <LordAro> Rule no. 1 of submitting patches to open-source projects: Be patient.
14:19:01  <LordAro> Rule no. 2: Nag the devs constantly :)
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14:28:32  <rainbowtux> hi all, what is the best way to start a profitable game? i started out with busses + 2 trains, but the early trains break down so often, profit is low
14:29:34  <frosch123> build longer lines
14:29:42  <frosch123> transport coal
14:30:32  <rainbowtux> frosch123: but longer lines result in more break downs, not?
14:30:50  <frosch123> get an engine with a higher reliability
14:31:08  <frosch123> and enforce servicing on every trip
14:31:14  <rainbowtux> i also try to combine the lines in one circuit, to reduce track costs, but then break down problems can accumulate (trains stuck behind broken colleagues)
14:31:21  <frosch123> i.e. not every 180 days or something silly, but as part of the orders
14:31:33  <rainbowtux> frosch123: ah, that is a nice hint
14:32:58  <frosch123> anyway, your first train should make at least £20k per trip
14:33:02  <frosch123> else the line is too short
14:34:02  <frosch123> (that is for default engines, if you are starting very early with very cheap early engines, you might get away with less)
14:34:47  <frosch123> if you have big towns with >3k population, you can also do train service between them for a start
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14:36:27  <rainbowtux> frosch123: oh, lots to try thus :)
14:36:53  <rainbowtux> i was also in doubt... full load cargo or let them fill up for what is available and travel more often?
14:37:10  <frosch123> for cargo always full load
14:37:38  <frosch123> for passengers which load at multiple stations you want to use timetables to enforce a loading time of 2 to 5 days
14:38:33  <frosch123> mind that for cargo payment the time the cargo is loaded into a waiting train counts
14:38:48  <frosch123> so, you do want shorter trains with shorter loading times on shorter routes
14:39:01  <frosch123> so, the time spend loading is not too big compared to the actual travel time
14:40:13  <frosch123> on my first routes i usually try for 3 trains, with one train always loading
14:40:33  <HellTiger> is coverage important to supply goods?
14:40:35  <frosch123> so it's 1/3 loading, 1/3 travelling source to destination, 1/3 travelling back
14:40:40  <frosch123> HellTiger: no
14:40:46  <frosch123> it's either yes or no
14:40:46  <HellTiger> ok
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14:43:48  <rainbowtux> frosch123: thx
14:45:29  <frosch123> [15:32] <frosch123> anyway, your first train should make at least £20k per trip <- hmm, maybe i messed up currencies, and i meant only £10k, and €20k :)
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14:49:50  <rainbowtux> hehe :)
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14:52:45  <HellTiger> hm i have a train with woods and goods wagon. one station is connected to forest and some city buildings, other station is connected to sawmill, now the train collect goods at sawmill, then unloads at city but he re-load goods cargo?
14:53:17  <frosch123> never set your orders to "unload"
14:53:32  <HellTiger> ok i try
14:54:06  <frosch123> well, you can set loading and unloading independently
14:54:18  <HellTiger> hm now he dont drops goods in city
14:54:22  <frosch123> so, set it to "load if available" and "unload if accepted" or something like that
14:54:29  <HellTiger> ye
14:55:37  <HellTiger> the default settings
14:55:39  <HellTiger> for trains
14:56:10  <HellTiger> still no unload of goods :|
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14:57:18  <frosch123> well, does the station say it accepts them?
14:57:26  <HellTiger> no!
14:57:28  <HellTiger> well.
14:57:29  <HellTiger> sry
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15:39:58  <supermop> hi
15:43:25  <Alberth> hi
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15:45:38  <supermop> hows it going?
15:48:09  <frosch123> tlo has a good chance on becoming group winner
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16:01:37  <supermop> trying to figure out how to run both local and express services on a single track line
16:02:08  <supermop> so that the express passes the local in a station
16:02:23  <supermop> writing out schedules on graph paper
16:03:23  <Zuu> As a graphical time table?
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16:06:57  <supermop> i just want to interlace the lines for two different trains to keep track of where each one is relative to the other at a given time
16:07:16  <supermop> if you are playing with the 24hr clock its easy
16:07:22  <supermop> easier
16:07:31  <supermop> but im at work, so on a mac
16:08:07  <supermop> and unaware of any departure board+ CD binaries for mac new enough to run GS etc
16:09:03  <supermop> the idea is to then figure out free slots when this sugar cane train can sneak in without delaying either passenger train
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16:37:54  <HellTiger> hm looks like its good to have at begin in each city bus service, so the citys grow faster?
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16:38:21  <LordAro> that is how the game mechanics are made ;)
16:40:34  <HellTiger> i wish there where for every button a shortcut
16:40:45  <HellTiger> isnt that big
16:40:48  <LordAro> there are for most
16:41:10  <Ristovski> HellTiger: impossible
16:41:14  <HellTiger> like take orientation of bus station
16:41:23  <Ristovski> you can't have shortcuts for *all* the buttons
16:41:23  <HellTiger> open vehicle depo
16:41:26  <HellTiger> assign targets
16:41:33  <HellTiger> ok. but why not?
16:41:35  <HellTiger> i cant code.
16:41:38  <LordAro> so you want to play ottd by typing? :P
16:41:42  <Ristovski> lol
16:41:51  <frosch123> LordAro: that's normal
16:41:53  <HellTiger> its much faster
16:42:09  <HellTiger> and for dwarf fortress i wish a mouse gui.
16:42:11  <frosch123> HellTiger: there are hotkeys for all construction actions
16:42:18  <HellTiger> so i dont need hotkeys anymore.
16:42:18  <frosch123> and for the main order things
16:42:28  <Ristovski> orientation could be a single button, which would cycle through all the orientations
16:42:28  <HellTiger> are they in
16:42:29  <frosch123> i believe order window is asdfghj
16:42:51  <frosch123> take a look at hotkey.cfg
16:43:00  <frosch123> which you find in the same directory as openttd.cfg
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16:44:45  <frosch123> <- that's the default section for order hotkeys
16:46:09  <HellTiger> oh great
16:46:12  <HellTiger> g works for goto
16:46:16  <HellTiger> its logical
16:47:06  <frosch123> there is also an advancted setting (i believe "quick goto") which makes goto depressed when opening the order gui
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16:58:47  <andythenorth_> Hmm
16:58:54  <andythenorth_> Ottd is dying?
17:00:14  <Ristovski> andythenorth_: wat?
17:01:30  <LordAro> O.o
17:01:47  <LordAro> explain yourself andy
17:02:14  <LordAro> or has there been another post on the forums?
17:02:56  <Ristovski> lol
17:04:45  <andythenorth_> There's nothing at all in the forums
17:05:13  <andythenorth_> Not even stupid questions
17:05:52  <andythenorth_> Also there are only 3 people left writing ottd code
17:06:14  <andythenorth_> And almost no significant newgrf projects
17:06:30  <Ristovski> only 3 active devs?
17:06:31  <Ristovski> :O
17:06:40  <LordAro> which 3 are you referring to?
17:06:41  <andythenorth_> Shrug
17:06:59  <andythenorth_> It's not the first time
17:07:40  <LordAro> it's not the first time you've said it either :L
17:10:42  <frosch123> LordAro: one of them is "translators"
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17:11:33  <LordAro> i was gonna say, there's been at least a commit a day for ages now :L
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17:22:03  <Zuu> So now it should be easier to maintain patcches for OpenTTD when it is less of a moving target. :-)
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17:22:53  <LordAro> has andy always had such an awful connection?
17:22:59  <LordAro> hi Zuu, btw :)
17:23:06  <Zuu> Hello LordAro
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17:38:52  <wil3> Hi everyone - I fancy playing a quick game... haven't played for years (last time I did assets from the cd)... This time, it looks much more complicated... I clicked on AI and I guess I need to download one before I play - but, I don't have a clue which... what is best? Is there a quick guide I have missed?
17:40:02  <LordAro> nope
17:40:04  <LordAro> :)
17:40:07  <LordAro> pick one
17:40:26  <LordAro> i would reccomend simpleai though - it's most like the old original AI
17:40:37  <LordAro> also, AroAI </plug>
17:41:14  <wil3> All these new acronyms are scary to someone who just wants to play!... I saw Simple AI, but it mentions non-newgrf... I don't really understand, don't I want new features?
17:41:20  <wil3> ...I'm happy to try anything!
17:41:26  <wil3> So, simpleAI and AroAI?
17:41:43  <LordAro> it honestly is anything you want
17:41:46  <LordAro> try them and see
17:41:55  <LordAro> if you don't like them, try another :)
17:41:55  <wil3> some of these mention things like change the way cities grow... I'm just worried I will mess up the base game! I just want to play!
17:42:20  <LordAro> those sound like game scripts - yes, they will
17:42:58  <LordAro> they are for things like only allowing towns to grow when certain cargoes have been transported
17:44:59  <wil3> I understand, just confused why they were on the AI menu... Thanks... playing now :)
17:45:27  <LordAro> they are both in the 'scripts' menu, i think you'll find ;)
17:45:49  <wil3> ahh, called AI/Game script... sorry, my bad!
17:57:33  <LordAro> :)
17:57:39  <Alberth>
17:59:34  <HellTiger> hm train finds way out of depot but not into depot?
18:00:55  <Zuu> Do you have the depot on a side track?
18:01:25  <HellTiger> yes
18:01:28  <HellTiger> Zuu.
18:01:49  <HellTiger> my first signal route
18:01:50  <Zuu> The pathfinder accepts up to X penalty cost units before it stops searching for depots.
18:02:03  <Zuu> X is 16 or 18 tile equivalents or so.
18:02:03  <HellTiger> tut says put a signal in front of depot, so it needs a track
18:02:14  <Zuu> A red signal has a quite high penalty
18:02:32  <Zuu> Eg. use non-PBS signals if possible to reduce the signal penalty
18:02:42  <Zuu> Or shorten the side track length
18:02:46  <HellTiger> hm
18:03:21  <Alberth> (07:02:03 PM) HellTiger: tut says put a signal in front of depot, so it needs a track  <-- that's wrong
18:03:40  <HellTiger> i build new one depot without track, still train cant find?
18:03:59  <Zuu> Does the train orders include a depot in the order list?
18:04:32  <HellTiger> they had to drive to other industry first
18:04:36  <HellTiger> now it works
18:04:53  <Alberth> how far from the train is the depot?  there is a limited distance that the train looks for depots. Also, it does not continuously look for depots, just every now and then
18:05:06  <Zuu> If at least one depot is included in the order list, they will not look for depots not no the list.
18:05:50  <Zuu> s/\bno\b/on/
18:07:34  <HellTiger> the last thing i didnt understand
18:07:55  <Zuu> Order lists?
18:08:29  <HellTiger> [19:05:54] <Zuu> s/\bno\b/on/
18:08:41  <Zuu> Thats a regex to fix the typo in my previous message
18:09:17  <Zuu> On IRC with technical people it is common that typos are fixed used regex notation.
18:11:39  <Zuu> The regex above replaces "no" with "on", but only if "no" is adjacent to a word beginning/ending. (eg. not inside a word)
18:12:38  <Alberth> s/no t/on t/  :)
18:13:29  <Zuu> works too :-)
18:14:20  <frosch123> just think of it as some kind of weird smiley :p
18:14:43  <LordAro> of course, normal people would've written "*on the list"
18:14:44  <LordAro> :P
18:14:51  <frosch123> "emoticon" is the term
18:15:28  <Zuu> LordAro: With the star notation, I usally put the star after the corrected word.
18:16:48  <Zuu> And talking of smileies, if you want more smilies in your game, you should play against CluelessPlus :-)
18:17:58  <Zuu> (it uses various smilies in order to create unique station names)
18:20:04  <LordAro> i still don't understand why it can't save that information in a table/whatever
18:20:16  <LordAro> rather than have ugly station names everywhere :L
18:20:34  <Alberth> just disable showing of station names :)
18:20:43  <LordAro> then i can't find my stations :P
18:28:09  <LordAro> gah, still snowing
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18:30:17  <Zuu> LordAro: Disable showing of competitor signs if you can't stand them
18:30:34  <LordAro> there's a setting for that? :L
18:30:54  <Zuu> LordAro: If the AI crashes that table is lost, if it is stored in the map you can save the map after the AI crashed and re-load to recover.
18:31:54  <Zuu> It may not be the fastest, but I took the design desicion to not store things in memory unless it can't be stored in names or building pattern.
18:32:27  <LordAro> what is stored in the town names that can't be recovered from the map
18:32:29  <frosch123> so ais should be allowed to save a json string in every industry/town/vehicle/group/... :)
18:32:32  <frosch123> same for gs
18:33:08  <Zuu> LordAro: CluelessPlus store industry/town ID as well as cargo ID for all stations.
18:33:34  <Zuu> cargo ID could in many cases be recovered from the vehicles (but not always)
18:34:06  <Zuu> Industry/town ID is not always possible to recover if a station covers several industries/towns.
18:35:04  <LordAro> fair enough :L
18:35:40  <Zuu> In the vehicle name, CluelessPlus store the state of vehicles. This information is used to recover state information about the connection.
18:36:35  <Zuu> Eg. to figure out if a connection was paused when the save was made or if some vehicle was sent to depot for selling.
18:39:56  *** ntoskrnl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:40:23  <Zuu> Besides, I don't think the CluelessPlus station names are ugly :-)
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18:41:52  <frosch123> wasn't clueless the ai which uses names like clueless, lessclueless, somewhatclueless, someclue, ... ?
18:42:39  <Zuu> correct
18:42:56  <Zuu> clueless, cluemore, ...
18:43:14  <Alberth> o/ andy
18:44:21  <Zuu> I remember when the number of company slots was increased from 7/8? to 15. I had to double the amount of steps in the AI naming. :-)
18:45:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25116 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-03-23 18:45:19 UTC)
18:45:29  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:30  <DorpsGek> greek - 2 changes by Evropi
18:45:31  <DorpsGek> korean - 1 changes by telk5093
18:45:32  <DorpsGek> swedish - 2 changes by Joel_A
18:46:38  <frosch123> lol, just remembered the naming discussion of aroai :)
18:47:59  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
18:48:01  <frosch123> oh, that's almost 4 years ago
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18:51:29  <LordAro> good god, has it been that long? :L
18:52:24  <frosch123> <- you refused to use "or lardo"
18:52:37  <LordAro> hehe :)
18:53:52  <LordAro> see, if you dev chaps hadn't completely removed the original AI, you wouldn't have had the pleasure of 'metting' me :D
18:54:05  <LordAro> s/mett/meet/
18:55:07  <LordAro> actually: s/'metting'/getting to know/
18:55:13  <LordAro> better choice of words
18:55:58  <frosch123> well, i guess we were close to meating you, petert and yorick at some point :p
18:56:19  <LordAro> were you?
18:56:40  <frosch123> the 3 underaged guys who wanted to know everything :p
18:56:41  <Zuu> LordAro: ^ "meating"
18:57:09  <LordAro> ah yes, i can understand that :L
18:57:18  <LordAro> @seen petert
18:57:18  <DorpsGek> LordAro: petert was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 21 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 59 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <PeterT> TrueBrain: who is a PeterT in the making?
18:57:33  <LordAro> @seen yorick
18:57:33  <DorpsGek> LordAro: yorick was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 11 weeks, 4 days, 17 hours, 18 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <yorick> random sort instead of alphabetic sort may be better
18:57:37  <frosch123> haha, fits perfectly
18:58:30  <LordAro> i win?
18:58:40  <Zuu> @seen LordAro
18:58:40  <DorpsGek> Zuu: LordAro was last seen in #openttd 9 seconds ago: <LordAro> i win?
18:58:46  <Zuu> :-)
18:58:52  <LordAro> :)
18:59:16  <LordAro> since we're doing @seen's, the obligatory:
18:59:21  <LordAro> @seen bjarni
18:59:21  <DorpsGek> LordAro: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 24 weeks, 0 days, 18 hours, 40 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
19:00:03  <TrueBrain> now I feel obligatedd to test the @kick :P
19:00:15  <LordAro> O.o was it really 1 1/2 years since he 'came back'?
19:00:34  * LordAro whistles innocently
19:00:38  <Zuu> TrueBrain: :-)
19:01:00  <frosch123> LordAro: i think that was already the second "came back" then
19:01:18  <LordAro> hello TrueBrain :)
19:05:39  <LordAro> and lets face it, if i hadn't, __ln__ would've anyway :P
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19:14:32  <Taeioum> Hey guys.
19:14:39  <LordAro> hello!
19:15:02  <Taeioum> Lemme go search the forums before I ask any questions that have already been asked before..
19:16:22  * LordAro blinks in shock
19:16:33  <frosch123> Taeioum: was ottd featured somewhere?
19:16:41  <frosch123> your are the third newbie today :)
19:17:06  <Taeioum> Hah, nice :)
19:17:16  <Taeioum> I've played TT off an on since I was like 8
19:17:21  <Taeioum> 12 years ago that is
19:17:39  <Taeioum> Anyways. I start a new game using OpenTTD and AdmiralAI gives me an error straight away
19:17:44  <frosch123> hmm, how old was i in 95?
19:17:54  <frosch123> aw, 13
19:18:02  <frosch123> i had no chance to play ttd at age of 8
19:18:10  <Taeioum> I had no clue the game existed until like 2000 when a friend showed me it
19:18:12  <frosch123> i had to play with gwbasic at 8 :)
19:18:23  <Taeioum> Since then every 2-3 years I just get a sudden urge to play again
19:18:49  <Taeioum> I'm still a noob at it though. Compared to all the screenshots I've seen
19:19:01  <Taeioum> Train track junctions and such, dang.
19:19:29  <frosch123> we had an rts guy earlier today, who asked about hotkeys first :)
19:19:41  <Taeioum> Then again my English back then was terrible
19:19:53  <Taeioum> And haha, I can deal with just my mouse and the ESC button
19:20:13  <frosch123> oh, it is said my english was better at age 8 than at 10
19:20:37  <Taeioum> Anyways, anyone have an idea what to do about the error AdmiralAI is giving me?
19:20:51  <frosch123> i was able to repeat the programming terms i learned when i was 7/8 as i was told how they were spoken
19:20:54  <Taeioum> At first OpenTTD didn't run fullscreen anymore, but that's fixed.
19:21:09  <LordAro> probably nothing you can do, other than report it to Yexo, but he hasn't been seen in
19:21:13  <LordAro> @seen Yexo
19:21:13  <DorpsGek> LordAro: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 16 weeks, 1 day, 6 hours, 4 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
19:21:15  <frosch123> then i learned how to read german properly in school, and thus changed to pronounce everything in german :p
19:21:17  <Taeioum> I just maximize, let's me enjoy a semi-fullscreen 1366x768
19:21:32  <Taeioum> Ah, I'm Dutch myself, my German's horrible
19:21:47  <Taeioum> Then again my Dutch is getting worse by the day. I pretty much speak English all day.
19:22:07  <LordAro> woo, English!
19:22:22  <Taeioum> I know right..
19:22:32  <frosch123> LordAro: you should also learn proper english :p
19:22:37  * LordAro can speak some French, and not much else...
19:22:50  <LordAro> other than English, obviously
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19:23:22  <frosch123> LordAro: that's fine, you should get around well in europe
19:23:28  <frosch123> everyone speaks english, except the french
19:23:29  <frosch123> or so :p
19:23:39  <Taeioum> Technical English is a lot harder than the every day conversational English though.
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19:23:45  <LordAro> although a few moneths ago i was informed by a Swede that i'm supposed to capitalize things like 'English'
19:23:48  <Taeioum> I've found out I'm lacking big time when it comes to that
19:24:05  <frosch123> LordAro: i am sure it was a finnish guy
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19:25:28  <LordAro> nah, i think it was chrill, and he's swedish, right? :L
19:25:47  <frosch123> Taeioum: when i had to look up "perpendicular" in a dictionary some years ago, it encouraged me to focus on latin and drop english in school
19:25:57  <andythenorth> o/
19:26:04  <Alberth> \o
19:26:05  <frosch123> dropping english in school was the best decision i ever made in school
19:26:06  <LordAro> ah, andy, quick, help me bash european (languages)
19:26:16  <frosch123> school english is so useless
19:26:45  <frosch123> LordAro: you have a weird choice who to team up with :p
19:27:06  <Taeioum> I never had to study and was always the best in class with English
19:27:16  <Taeioum> But yeah, there's no technical English in there
19:27:19  <michi_cc> I took Latin to get rid of French faster ;)
19:27:23  <Taeioum> And it's British English, so..
19:27:54  <frosch123> michi_cc: i took russian to get rid of english faster :p
19:28:12  <LordAro> "American English is a collection of spelling mistakes and grammatical errors." ~ LordAro, 2012
19:28:20  <frosch123> the fun part about russian is that the first 6 months are only about the alphabet
19:28:44  <michi_cc> To be fair though, that was because of the teacher and not so much the language.
19:29:36  <frosch123> well, when english switched from "learning english" to "learning english literature" i dropped from 9-10 points to 4-5
19:29:44  <frosch123> (15 = best)
19:30:50  <frosch123> though when german switched from "interpreting unknown stuff" to "interpreting popular stuff, where you can find a summary on the internet", i improved a lot :)
19:31:02  <Taeioum> Pretty sure I just installed AdmiralAI wrong though. Never played using openttd before
19:31:21  <frosch123> Taeioum: just download it in the ingame content thingie
19:31:29  <LordAro> Taeioum: if ytou downloaded it through the online content, you  did it fine
19:31:38  <frosch123> then go to the ai settings and set up some random ais, or if you really want enforce to use admiral
19:31:43  <Taeioum> I tried man. Going that way shows nothing
19:31:55  <LordAro> iirc, admiralai is currently broken
19:32:00  <LordAro> @ports
19:32:00  <DorpsGek> LordAro: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
19:32:29  <Taeioum> Afaik there's no ports blocked or closed though
19:32:33  <Taeioum> I'll just check again
19:32:56  <LordAro> that's usually what it is
19:33:06  <LordAro> or someone 'further up' blocking it
19:33:14  <LordAro> school or whatever
19:34:23  <Taeioum> Lemme check
19:35:27  * LordAro -> dinner [feel free to talk at me, i just won't reply]
19:37:31  <frosch123> yeah, don't talk with your mouth full
19:37:54  <Taeioum> Mkay, so I checked. Manually installed AdmiralAI at first
19:38:13  <Taeioum> Just dumped the folder in the openttd\ai folder
19:38:25  <Taeioum> Didn't work so I took out the files, deleted the folder
19:38:27  <Taeioum> Same thing
19:38:41  <Taeioum> Deleted it all together now, ingame looking at the menu
19:39:00  <Taeioum> I can see the menu alright, just the download button is greyed out
19:39:02  <frosch123> if you install it manually, then put the .tar in the ai directory
19:39:11  <frosch123> if you get a zip, decompress it
19:39:17  <frosch123> but do not extract the .tar
19:39:23  <Alberth> you also have to set the number of opponents
19:39:50  <Alberth> and the AI usually starts a year or so later
19:40:23  <Alberth> oh, and you need to start a new game with the AI, it won't get added to a game you load
19:40:44  <Taeioum> I know it starts like 178 days later
19:40:56  <frosch123> Alberth: sure you can add ais to a game
19:40:57  <Taeioum> But just can't find how to properly install the AI into the folder
19:41:05  <frosch123> that happens all the time, bankrupting and restarting
19:41:26  <Alberth> k, just listing some probable causes for "not working"
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19:42:07  <Taeioum> Just a screenshot of someone's ai folder should do it for me honestly.
19:42:15  <Taeioum> Cause I'm just not sure how to add them
19:42:53  <Taeioum> Hold on
19:42:57  <Taeioum> Might have just gotten it
19:43:08  <frosch123>
19:44:08  <Alberth>  :)
19:44:51  <frosch123> :)
19:45:03  <Ristovski> oh nice, im not the only one using linux
19:45:16  <frosch123> lol
19:45:47  <Taeioum> Haven't really tried linux yet ever.
19:45:50  <frosch123> you can safely assume > 50% in this cannel
19:45:53  <Taeioum> Actually running Win8 at the moment.
19:46:08  <frosch123> (well, considering the active talkers, no idea about the idlers)
19:46:25  <Taeioum> I deleted what I put into the ai folder
19:46:43  <Taeioum> I forgot to check the box in the downloadable AIs list
19:46:58  <Taeioum> Downloaded ingame, checked the AI folder, empty.
19:49:21  <frosch123> it's in content_download/ai
19:49:49  <frosch123> the stuff from the ingame download is stored separately from those which you collect manually
19:50:01  <frosch123> because you might want to backup the manually collected ones
19:50:11  <frosch123> while that makes no sense for the ingame downloaded ones
19:55:08  <Taeioum> Oh well, we'll see.
19:55:24  <Taeioum> I added another competitor and it didn't show any errors
19:55:48  <Taeioum> So we'll just let the game run for like 3 game years, and I'll see if they start building
19:56:35  <frosch123> you can speed that up by opening the ingame-console
19:56:41  <frosch123> and typing "start_ai"
19:56:59  <frosch123> open the console like in any game with a console, using the key left to 1
20:00:01  <Taeioum> How exactly?
20:00:29  <frosch123> eh, press the key left to "1!
20:00:36  <frosch123> sometimes it is ~, sometimes ^
20:02:32  <Ristovski> it's either ` or ~
20:02:37  <Ristovski> under escape
20:03:14  <andythenorth> frosch123: I'd like to attach an on-click handler to specific sprites in an advanced spritelayout, with a cb to the grf
20:03:58  <frosch123> andythenorth: want to make the bubbles of the bubblegenerator pop-able?
20:04:20  <andythenorth> yeah, effectively that :)
20:04:23  <andythenorth> good guess
20:04:32  <andythenorth> actually cows that moo when you click on them
20:04:47  <frosch123> anyway, you have to make it a command send over the network
20:04:58  <frosch123> and i guess you need some kind of access control
20:05:02  <frosch123> who is allowed to click?
20:05:12  <frosch123> companies? spectators?
20:05:12  <andythenorth> mostly my toddler I think
20:05:30  <andythenorth> all running games containing FIRS, everywhere, moo when he clicks
20:05:41  <frosch123> [21:04] <andythenorth> actually cows that moo when you click on them <- oh, that would be client-side :)
20:06:04  <frosch123> i think belugas wrote a ottd, which replaced the intro menu with a big "toot-toot" button
20:06:14  <andythenorth> nice
20:07:03  <andythenorth> currently we are mostly playing this :P
20:07:34  <frosch123> pff, showing your toddler apple stuff
20:07:55  <frosch123> don't you want him/her to become a healthy child?
20:08:25  <andythenorth> an apple a day...
20:09:07  <andythenorth> is very healthy :P
20:09:18  <Taeioum> I'm sorry, didn't know exactly what you meant with the key left to 1
20:09:25  <Taeioum> ` or ~ woulda worked ;)
20:09:38  <frosch123> it's ^ here :p
20:10:14  <Taeioum> It says there's a competitor using the name AdmiralAI Transport. Let's see if it actually builds
20:11:50  <Taeioum> Yep! it builds!
20:14:14  <supermop> hey andythenorth: what about a yorkshire basic firs economy?
20:14:22  <andythenorth> cobs
20:14:27  <andythenorth> coal
20:14:30  <Supercheese> Irish basic
20:14:34  <andythenorth> tetley
20:14:37  <Supercheese> potatoes and Guinness
20:14:40  <supermop> i was thinking north yorkshire, but I guess you could do south to add coal
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20:14:52  <supermop> haha tetleys
20:15:05  <supermop> industries removed from map circa 2010?
20:15:10  <supermop> sam smiths?
20:15:19  <andythenorth> my local serves sam smiths
20:15:32  <supermop> i prefer black sheep brewery
20:16:16  <supermop> i remember lots of rapeseed grown near where i lived between leeds and harrogate
20:16:29  <supermop> lots of cows
20:16:36  <supermop> then sheep in the dales
20:22:06  <supermop> also the port should import tea
20:22:22  <supermop> which is delivered to Betty's or Taylor's in towns
20:24:46  <andythenorth> I've been to Yorkshire
20:25:20  <supermop> it's quite a big place
20:25:23  <supermop> limestone
20:25:29  <supermop> they've lot's of that
20:25:38  <andythenorth> imports: flat caps, whippets
20:25:48  <andythenorth> exports: flat vowels
20:25:49  <supermop> not sure if they use it industrially
20:25:50  <supermop> ha
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20:26:15  <andythenorth> industry: former coal mine, produces brass bands and smack addicts
20:26:42  <supermop> a small port layout for canals and rivers would be yorkshire appropriate
20:26:46  <andythenorth> industry: car pound, requires burnt-out cars (twoced)
20:27:03  <andythenorth> industry: police station, requires body armour
20:28:19  <supermop> how are you planning on planning the various firs economies?
20:28:35  <supermop> and will there be non-basic, non-full economies?
20:30:17  <andythenorth> yes
20:30:24  <andythenorth> there will be around 12 economies in total
20:30:28  <andythenorth> more is overkill
20:30:51  <LordAro> still snowing here...
20:31:11  <andythenorth> can someone write a FIRS documentation auto-generator, thanks
20:31:27  <andythenorth> you'll want to repackage some of the python files first
20:31:37  * andythenorth would do it, but is sick
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20:32:03  <andythenorth> there's an example one here for Squid Ate FISH
20:32:20  <andythenorth> auto-generated when the grf is built
20:32:50  <andythenorth> it's not hard :P
20:33:31  <andythenorth>
20:36:05  <Alberth> imho it would be more readable if you have more columns
20:36:49  <andythenorth> yup
20:37:02  <andythenorth> it's a quick proof of concept tbh
20:37:11  <andythenorth> it needs tablesorting and other stuff too :)
20:37:33  <Alberth> just give the numbers some colour?
20:37:51  <Alberth> or the words, or both :p
20:39:26  <andythenorth> what I need to do more is get stuff out of the lang file
20:39:37  <andythenorth> anyone know how to parse a lang file with python?
20:39:55  <andythenorth> getting it into a dict would do :P
20:40:17  <andythenorth> where have I seen something like that recently? o_O
20:41:18  <frosch123> you have weird dreams when you are sick
20:41:34  <andythenorth> actually I do
20:42:00  <frosch123> about unicorns?
20:42:20  <andythenorth> not so much
20:45:26  * Alberth raises hand
20:45:54  <frosch123> ah, Alberth dreamed about unicorns
20:45:55  <Alberth> the eints project parses lang files, and it is even written in python :p
20:46:13  <Alberth> frosch123: unfortunately no, but perhaps tonight
20:46:24  <frosch123> nml also parses lang files :p
20:46:38  <frosch123> wt3 as well
20:46:51  <Alberth> the check translations script does too
20:46:58  <frosch123> so, i guess the majority of software that parses lang files, is writting ni python
20:47:15  <frosch123> all, except strgen
20:47:19  <andythenorth> I guess I could look in my eints checkout :P
20:47:30  <Alberth> frosch123: the exception to the rule :p
20:47:50  <Alberth> webtranslate/newgrf/
20:48:29  <andythenorth> there is a unicorn in this video
20:48:59  <andythenorth> after the screaming babies
20:49:24  <andythenorth> for legal reasons, I now have to say that I am involved in making and promoting the video :P
20:49:32  <andythenorth> it's illegal not to under UK law ;)
20:50:52  <frosch123> are you the singer?
20:50:58  <frosch123> with the two toddlers
20:51:00  <Ristovski> damn mosquito
20:52:08  <andythenorth> frosch123: not so much no
20:52:16  <andythenorth> Alberth: a lot of work just in that file :o
20:52:26  <andythenorth> load_language_file() looks like a starting point for me
20:52:43  <andythenorth> although all I need probably is to split each line on ':'
20:53:13  <frosch123> can you get hold of that unicorn costume for me?
20:54:14  <Alberth> andythenorth:   m = string_pat.match(line)  does the split on :  line 645
20:56:33  <andythenorth> Alberth: thanks
20:56:47  <andythenorth> frosch123: I could ask ;)
20:57:07  <frosch123> :p
20:57:18  <frosch123> will you attend the r25k meeting in it?
21:00:41  <andythenorth> r25k :o
21:00:47  <frosch123> oh, 1300€ for a unicorn costume
21:00:53  <andythenorth> perhaps I withdraw my 'ottd is dying' comment :)
21:01:25  <frosch123> you dreamed we were already at r25116?
21:06:41  <andythenorth> I think so
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21:35:27  <andythenorth> herp
21:35:33  <andythenorth> improve this? :P
21:35:33  <andythenorth> strings = dict((line.split(':')[0].strip(), line.split(':')[1].strip()) for line in text if ':' in line)
21:35:55  <andythenorth> 'text' is a lang file :P
21:36:24  <frosch123> i guess first store the split result in a variable
21:36:34  <frosch123> then check the array for being bigger than 1
21:36:50  <frosch123> then strip [0] and [1,]
21:36:56  <frosch123> mind [1,] vs [1]
21:37:20  <andythenorth> I was playing 1 line python :(
21:37:49  <frosch123> oh, sorry :p
21:37:53  <andythenorth> :D
21:37:56  <frosch123> is there a comma operator in python?
21:37:57  <andythenorth> I don't think I won
21:38:15  <frosch123> recently i noticed that you can overload the comma operator in c++
21:38:21  <frosch123> since then i am searching a usecase for it :p
21:40:11  <V453000> oh andy with his apocalyptic announcements :P
21:41:48  <frosch123> V453000: did you know how expensive costumes are?
21:41:58  <V453000> costumes?
21:42:22  <V453000> I heard you just need to skin your unicorn and take its horn on your own head
21:42:31  <frosch123>
21:42:50  <V453000> omfg
21:43:04  <frosch123> though it's interesting that it is sorted in the category "farm-animals" -> "horses" -> "unicorn"
21:43:12  <frosch123> apparently there are unicorn farms
21:43:51  <andythenorth> got to come from somewhere
21:45:45  <frosch123> well, i was under the assumption my garage would have been the only source
21:46:50  <V453000> LOL
21:53:59  * andythenorth writes some actual code
21:55:14  <Alberth> str.split has a max split count
21:56:59  <andythenorth> I should use that
21:58:32  <andythenorth>
21:58:39  <andythenorth> ^ no more [] in the ship names
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22:08:03  <andythenorth> ho ho
22:08:14  <andythenorth> so how much detail should online docs give for a newgrf?
22:08:29  <andythenorth> is providing the capacity, speed etc bad?
22:08:41  <andythenorth> it's a bit lame to know in advance :P
22:11:13  <V453000>  Idont think stats themselves matter andy
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22:11:23  <V453000> but describing things like usage is nice
22:11:30  <V453000> you can read stats in the game anyway
22:11:38  * andythenorth waits for bundles to catch up :P
22:11:42  <andythenorth> here
22:11:48  <andythenorth> fewer stats
22:12:21  <V453000> the intro dates are nice to have so people can check when comes the next vehicle
22:12:42  <andythenorth> and see the date range the grf works for
22:12:47  <V453000> idk, you can see what I think about it if you look at nuts wiki :p
22:13:12  <andythenorth> no kittens :P
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22:20:06  * Zuu actually played the game a bit :-)
22:22:56  <Zuu> Hmm 1,299 euro for a unicorn
22:23:37  <Zuu> And I guess it is not a decimal comma but a thousand separator.
22:23:57  <frosch123> it's not specific to a unicorn
22:24:02  <frosch123> all stuff there costs about that
22:24:23  <supermop> speed capacity, name, should all be randomized
22:24:36  <Zuu> ok
22:24:47  <supermop> make people buy the sh 30
22:24:48  <frosch123> i guess it's a professional shop or so
22:25:28  <frosch123> you can get a toddler unicorn costume for 30€
22:25:36  <supermop> because its called the Kirby 1000 this game and you have no idea what it is or when the Kirby Paul 2000 will come out
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22:27:18  <frosch123> <- maybe everyone at the r25k party could wear one of those :p
22:27:37  <frosch123> though the guy does not look particulary happy about acting as unicorn model :)
22:28:19  <V453000> omfg
22:28:31  <frosch123> i see, you like the idea :)
22:29:15  <Zuu> Yeah, lets make it a unicorn party :-)
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22:32:54  <frosch123> night
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22:52:31  <andythenorth> just needs a picture now :)
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