Log for #openttd on 25th March 2013:
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01:11:10  <HellTiger_> again confused. how do i handly the passenger thing?
01:11:21  <HellTiger_> i unload same people and load them again with trains?
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07:35:15  <plantain> is there a channel here to talk about FIRS?
07:36:51  <V453000> most likely :)
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07:37:07  <plantain> I notice the wiki page references a manual
07:37:10  <plantain> but I can't find such a manual
07:38:11  <V453000> not aware of a firs manual either
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08:22:01  <dihedral> greetings
08:23:27  <V453000> elo
08:33:36  <peter1139> brrr
08:34:58  <V453000> moo
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08:52:14  * dihedral pets the cow
08:53:32  * V453000 is happy
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09:04:34  <Terkhen> good morning
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09:11:21  <V453000> moo
09:11:23  <V453000> rning
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09:13:51  * V453000 demands to be pat
09:15:40  <V453000> or else
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10:10:14  * planetmaker pats V453000 ;-) and says 'good morning everyone'
10:10:29  <V453000> :P hi
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10:35:41  <dihedral> i need some milk for my coffee ... V453000 ...?
10:36:47  <peter1139> no
10:39:10  <V453000> I didnt say I am a female cow.
10:39:11  <V453000> :)
10:39:19  <V453000> still want my milk?
10:39:43  <peter1139> by definition a cow is female
10:40:11  <dihedral> that must come as a shock to you, V453000
10:40:33  <dihedral> you have no balls :-D
10:40:45  <V453000> duno I always thought cow is the general term which could include bulls eventually
10:41:02  <dihedral> after a sex change, yes
10:41:03  <V453000> transsexual cow, amazing
10:41:03  <V453000> :D
10:41:16  <TinoDidriksen> Bovine is the general term, I think.
10:41:25  <V453000> WELL, cow is confused so no milk
10:42:18  <TinoDidriksen> Hm, or oxen.
10:43:05  <TinoDidriksen> Oh, wrong twice. They're called cattle.
10:43:06  <V453000> Also, I am a special species of a T-Rex Cow. Eggs only
10:44:39  <dihedral> so you can stand straight while walking up mountains?
10:44:55  <V453000> pretty much
10:45:25  <V453000> never tried too many mountains though, spent most of my life in frosch's garage
10:48:32  <peter1139> hmm
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10:48:40  <peter1139> can i have some of what V453000's smoking? it sounds interesting
10:49:29  <V453000> where did you think NUTS comes from
10:49:38  <V453000> aint got no smoking though :(
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11:04:46  <dihedral> it must be in the air ...
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11:47:06  <planetmaker> plantain, this is the channel to talk about FIRS
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12:23:38  <HellTiger> any advice how to transport pasengers? maybe only with transfare station?
12:23:55  <HellTiger> from one big city to other big city
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12:28:23  <dihedral> planes
12:29:42  <andythenorth> trains
12:29:49  <andythenorth> automobiles
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12:34:33  * ToBeFree suggests trains, preferably on a straight line from A to B, Maglev, with a length of at least 12 fields
12:34:46  <ToBeFree> should be the most profitable way of transporting passengers in vanilla OpenTTD afaik
12:35:09  <ToBeFree> oh, and build the stations *inside* a city if possible;
12:35:17  <ToBeFree> you might need to sacrifice some trees to do that
12:37:28  <ToBeFree> airplanes suck if trains are used correctly, imho
12:38:06  <__ln__> the whole idea of a jet engine is that it sucks in one end
12:38:11  <ToBeFree> xD
12:38:53  <HellTiger> i mean
12:39:02  <HellTiger> i have to transport them as far as possible?
12:39:09  <HellTiger> ToBeFree?
12:47:32  <ToBeFree> ?
12:47:35  <ToBeFree> oh
12:47:46  <ToBeFree> depends on what you want to do
12:48:18  <ToBeFree> if you want to get some money, the distance isn't too important, you will get money anyway and using trains already gives you nice profit
12:49:02  <ToBeFree> if you are extremely rich and have a fast train with nearly 100% reliability, use it for a passenger transport over the whole map.^^
12:50:31  <ToBeFree> to get 100%, I would suggest using only trains, but the distance is not too important as long as you get a minimum profit of x (I think this was ~20.000€; look at the detailed performance rating)
12:51:29  <ToBeFree> getting 100% with trains is quite failsafe but becomes boring before you reached your goal, I think, however
12:52:07  <ToBeFree> you might want to add something like the ECS vectors to make it more interesting
12:53:25  <HellTiger> ecs vectors?!
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13:09:16  <andythenorth> always station walk city stations
13:09:26  <andythenorth> use CHIPS, I made tiles in it for doing station walks :P
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13:39:15  <Belugas> hello
13:40:27  <dck42> hey guys - little problem occured here: I installed ur RC3 yesterday by downloading the deb for Ubuntu precise i386 and installing it through the software manager on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.
13:40:59  <dck42> result: everything worked fine and I played a while, but my whole unity desktop was gone after reboot!
13:41:32  <dck42> I had to reinstall all using "apt-get purge lightdm" and "apt-get install lightdm ubuntu-desktop"
13:41:51  <dck42> "dpkg-reconfigure lightdm" or using "gdm" was NOT working
13:42:06  <HellTiger> sounds pretty serious
13:42:19  <HellTiger> ToBeFree: where is this detailed performance rating
13:43:11  <dck42> yeah - no damage done but wondering how this happened - I guess ottd is installing some display manager?
13:46:09  <HellTiger> dck42: i wont think so
13:46:27  <HellTiger> maybe openttd need a special dependency wich force you to use parts of a other displaymanager or so
13:46:30  <HellTiger> just a idea
13:46:38  <HellTiger> then it tried to fix it
13:46:44  <HellTiger> wich results in uninstalling :D
13:47:13  <HellTiger> you can try debian some day. most of them didnt like the fork ubuntu
13:47:32  <Eddi|zuHause> dck42: sure it's not just you doing something completely unrelated and then forgetting about it?
13:47:52  <dck42> mh
13:49:57  <dck42> Eddi: yes pretty sure I think. I installed it, played it, nothing more. Also there was an error reported by the software manager during installation, but no specifics, just "An error occured". But since all worked I thought, "ok, never mind"
13:50:35  <Eddi|zuHause> dck42: is there some test mode where you can list all the changes it's going to do when you try to install it?
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13:51:23  <Eddi|zuHause> might be some obscure dependency going haywire
13:51:47  <Eddi|zuHause> but i have no further knowledge about this stuff
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13:53:47  <dck42> Eddi: yes that would be nice, but not sure how to preview changes for a "deb" file in Ubuntu
13:54:09  <dck42> Helltiger: I agree that Unity is a cancer!
13:54:16  <dck42> but Ubuntu I like
13:54:35  <HellTiger> hm if you like ubuntu you can just install debian
13:54:47  <dck42> :)
13:54:47  <HellTiger> and some  kdm/kde or gdm/gnome you like
13:55:04  <HellTiger> but debian is always a bit behind :|
13:55:10  <HellTiger> for some games it isnt that good
13:55:25  <HellTiger> even some QT didnt work cause its to old
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13:58:58  <dck42> I consider Debian being the "pro" Linux
14:00:24  <dck42> but to be honest I kind of migrated to the "dumbest possible user" side, I just dont wonna spend time with my OS, I just wonna click pretty icons and thats it :)
14:01:18  <V453000> you cant say that in this channel! Or unicorn penguins will eat you
14:01:30  <dck42> haha :)
14:02:39  <Flygon> Voraphillic unicorn penguins...
14:02:49  <Flygon> It is my duty, as a furry, to see this drawn!
14:03:10  * Flygon runs off to the shadows, once more
14:08:17  <dck42> mmhhh that leaves me puzzled regarding the expression "to see sth drawn" - never heard that, does it mean "to see sth happen"?? :-)
14:08:46  <dck42> does it mean the unicorn penguins are coming after me now?? ;)
14:08:59  <V453000> given that you are a drawing freak who takes his drawings as "happening", yes
14:09:02  <V453000> :P
14:09:15  <HellTiger> in city info, is the max passengers number the one wich tell me how may passengers the city will accept if i deliver them?
14:09:18  <V453000> either way penguins are coming
14:09:30  <dck42> haha
14:09:38  <V453000> HellTiger: no, it accepts endless amount. It is amount produced by the city
14:10:12  <HellTiger> ah
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14:52:17  <HellTiger> ho do i add fast to some cloned trains aditional waggons?
14:53:02  <V453000> you dont
14:53:07  <V453000> aka manually
14:53:38  <V453000> if you still have them in the depot then probably quickest way is to sell them all but one and just redo it
14:54:30  <HellTiger> ok
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14:58:35  <HellTiger> should i focus early on valuables`?
14:59:06  <Ristovski> HellTiger: naah, transporting valuables doesnt give you much profit
14:59:12  <HellTiger> hmm
14:59:20  <V453000> doesnt really matter but I dont think banks can grow anywhere to a nice production so I consider them quite worthless
14:59:34  <Ristovski> yeah
14:59:51  <V453000> any of the normal cargoes or even passengers or mail is a good start
15:00:19  <HellTiger> my biggest city has now 3600
15:00:21  <HellTiger> people.
15:00:22  <Ristovski> coal -> power plant is the quickest way to make profit imo, to it's best with trains
15:00:29  <HellTiger> yes
15:00:55  <V453000> if you do a goods route well, it isnt too far behind
15:00:59  <V453000> but yes coal is easiest
15:01:34  <Ristovski> I have 4 billion on my server from like 5 planes, 13 trains and 2 boats xD
15:01:57  <Ristovski> all trains are transporting coal, so yeah, go with that
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15:02:43  <V453000> money is irellevant after about 30 minutes of playing
15:03:54  <Ristovski> yeah
15:04:12  <V453000> if your settings is expensive then perhaps longer than 30 minutes, but the logic stays the same, you just waste more time by waiting for having money
15:04:28  <Zuu> In a current game there is a section with double tracks that adds up to 8 tracks for a strong slope up to the factory which is at the top of a mountain. Thats more fun for me than making money on a uniform coal transporting train fleet. :-)
15:04:53  <V453000> :)
15:05:20  <Ristovski> lol
15:06:20  <Zuu> In this game I also play by the rule "make simple level intersections and only expand when the capacity is reached for the current solution"
15:06:38  <Ristovski> hmm, are there any color codes for the multiplayer chat?
15:06:40  <V453000> why would you ever expand when it isnt needed zuu :D
15:06:51  <Ristovski> since ottd has like 16 colors
15:07:16  <V453000> each company has its own colour name in chat?
15:07:34  <Zuu> V453000: Because some like to make double track solutions with lots of tracks and no trains. Or to make symetric solutions without caring about that the demand is not symetric.
15:08:36  <Zuu> Yes, each company uses its own color in the chat
15:08:54  <Ristovski> V453000: I know that
15:09:11  <Zuu> Although that is just the company/player name that get colored. The message remain in white IIRC.
15:09:38  <Zuu> Unless I play with my patched OpenTTD version that color code town names and allow clicking on them. :-)
15:11:00  <V453000> colourful message would not keep quite good readability im afraid :P
15:12:17  <Zuu> Indeed, IIRC each OpenTTD client will reject color codes in received chat messages. So any such thing needs a modified client.
15:12:55  <Ristovski> ah
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16:06:21  <Zuu> Hmm the acronym of StoryPageItemType doesn't sound too good.
16:07:02  <Rubidium> is spet better?
16:07:25  <Zuu> A bit better
16:07:28  <V453000> Etem?
16:07:31  <V453000> :P
16:07:33  <Zuu> Element?
16:07:44  <Rubidium> or entry?
16:07:54  <Rubidium> or sppt (paragraph)
16:08:09  <Zuu> If a goal or location can be a paragraph.
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16:09:37  <Zuu> sppt - page part
16:11:03  <Zuu> Why does naming always get in the way of coding :-p
16:12:58  <V453000> just call it YAT yet another thing
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16:25:55  <HellTiger> now after some basics, whats about multiplayer? do you just build/detroy in the way other players?
16:26:00  <HellTiger> i think its not turn based :D
16:26:23  <V453000> on my end, I always try to disturb others as low as possible
16:26:34  <V453000> and I enforce that behaviour on our server accordingly
16:27:03  <V453000> solves all issues with people raging who was where first
16:27:25  <V453000> apart from having generally nice, friendly and peaceful environment
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16:51:44  <LordAro> heyo
16:59:26  <HellTiger> can i fast replace railway to powered railway?
17:01:11  <frosch123> the icon on the right
17:06:13  <HellTiger> frosch123: then all connected will converted complete?
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17:08:17  <frosch123> it's an area drag tool
17:08:50  <frosch123>
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17:11:25  <HellTiger> ah.
17:11:34  <HellTiger> i forgot i could make huge rectangle
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17:35:28  <HellTiger> hm. i try to replace trains, diesel to electric, i send all my trains to depot, converted all rail (with one over map square) now i start replacing, nothing happens, so i launched them all together over train list, still no replacing!
17:35:53  <HellTiger> they just driving as diesel
17:35:57  <HellTiger> pretty long in fast forward.
17:36:31  <HellTiger> frosch123! :>
17:36:32  <ToBeFree> you need to tell the game which replacement you want
17:36:42  <ToBeFree> and imho, don't ping random people ;-)
17:36:50  <ToBeFree> 1. open the vehicle list
17:36:57  <ToBeFree> 2. click the replacement icon
17:37:03  <ToBeFree> 3. select the replacement and enable it
17:37:13  <ToBeFree> done, now send them all to the depot for maintenance
17:38:06  <ToBeFree> oh, and check if the maintenance is blocked by the "minimum money" option in Advanced settings
17:38:31  <ToBeFree> iirc, the default is at ~200.000€, so if you have less, the replacement order is ignored
17:38:57  <HellTiger> i had start the replace over the list
17:39:02  <HellTiger> picked the two train types
17:39:07  <HellTiger> but it didnt worked yet
17:41:18  <ToBeFree> how much money do you have?
17:41:53  <HellTiger> 1,6 millioin tokai|noir
17:41:57  <HellTiger> ToBeFree:  i mean.
17:42:03  <HellTiger> EURO
17:42:03  <ToBeFree> 1,6 millions of anything should be enough afaik
17:42:15  <HellTiger> i try now
17:42:16  <ToBeFree> except Yen maybe
17:42:21  <HellTiger> first convert trains to electric
17:42:22  <ToBeFree> ^^
17:42:25  <HellTiger> then convert rails
17:42:44  <ToBeFree> no; the order shouldn't matter
17:42:57  <ToBeFree> if it doesn't work, there is another problem
17:43:10  <HellTiger> now they are waiting all in depot
17:43:23  <HellTiger> replacement should work, it worked all the time for steam to diesel
17:43:36  <HellTiger> i know how it works, but for now i can imaginate
17:43:45  <HellTiger> trains have to leave rails and cant go back
17:43:52  <HellTiger> until rails are converted to electric
17:45:11  <HellTiger> hmmm no i even cant convert them back to steam
17:46:23  <HellTiger> also last time they replaced automaticly, i didnt needed to send them to depot.
17:47:13  <HellTiger> i forgot the waggon replace
17:49:11  <HellTiger> on some train types the convert without further actions wont work
17:49:21  <HellTiger> i can fall back to steam and diesel, wagon replace on,
17:49:29  <HellTiger> but the same mechanic didnt work for electric.
17:51:37  <HellTiger> hm now it works sorry.
17:51:43  <HellTiger> take much time even in fast forward.
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18:12:00  <Zuu> Will anyone want to use a generic (and translated) page title: "Page {NUM}" in their Story Book or will everyone use a custom title that they need to ofer translations for themself?
18:13:01  <Zuu> Currently I have code for a generic page title but feels like removing it as most users probably want to use their custom titles anyway.
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18:45:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25122 trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt (2013-03-25 18:45:10 UTC)
18:45:18  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:19  <DorpsGek> catalan - 1 changes by arnau
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19:13:59  <HellTiger> do signales change if i upgrade to powered rails?
19:14:03  <HellTiger> they react different.
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19:49:00  <Wolf01> hello
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19:55:25  <HellTiger> man i love games with console.
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20:00:27  <frosch123> did you try xterm? :)
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20:07:53  <HellTiger> frosch123: i use screen under windows with cygwin
20:08:06  <HellTiger> doing backup and sync stuff with rsync
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20:27:34  <Zuu> HellTiger: Signals have the same function independent of track type
20:27:42  <HellTiger> ok
20:27:58  <Zuu> You can even use a maglev track to rely a signal from one part of your tracks to another part.
20:29:06  <Zuu> The check if a block is occupied do not care about track types. Thus maglev can be used like a signal cable when you use regular tracks.
20:29:25  <Zuu> (if you do insane stuff with block based signals)
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20:37:05  <HellTiger> to highskill right now
20:37:13  <HellTiger> still having much fun with basics
20:37:18  <HellTiger> i started about 30 times or so
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21:00:05  <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25123 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2013-03-25 20:59:59 UTC)
21:00:06  <DorpsGek> -Fix: when the count for a scrollbar was 0, the inter distance was subtracted too much causing a scrollbar with a negative size
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21:03:30  <andythenorth> lo
21:07:07  <Zuu> Alternative B is starting to work now:
21:07:36  <Zuu> I "just" need to work on rendering of location/goals and detecting cilicks. :-)
21:08:27  <Zuu> The image above use the same structure as posted yesterday in this image:
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21:10:53  <Zuu> People who use scroll wheels, when a list have content (eg. images) that cause some lines to have a different line height, is it still prefered that the scroll bar works in steps of a normal line height?
21:11:44  <Zuu> I have one option to allocate height for goals/locations in multiple of line_height. That however could give silly results in some combinations of GUI zoom and text size.
21:12:30  <Zuu> Another option is to compute the total height in pixels and then divide by line_height to get an aproximate number of line-equivalents to pass to the scrollbar as how many lines tall the content is.
21:12:44  <V453000> o_O
21:13:02  <Zuu> The later may cause cut of lines at the bottom of the window.
21:13:39  <Zuu> (which is common outside of OpenTTD, but is not used in other OpenTTD windows to my knownledge)
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21:15:34  <Zuu> Hello V453000 :-)
21:15:41  <V453000> hi :)
21:15:56  <Wolf01> the first would be good, as match with TT style, but I know how much work there is behind, the second one is fixable by adding the remainder to the last interval after the division
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21:16:54  <Zuu> The first works if images are about a multiple of the line height or slightly smaller.
21:18:53  <Zuu> What will look silly is if the image is slightly taller than X * line_height. Especially if X == 1.
21:21:46  <Zuu> I think I'll go for the first solution now. As you say it is closer to the TT style. If it sucks it can be changed later.
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21:36:47  <HellTiger> i still dont understand this station hopping, how far is it possible?
21:39:13  <andythenorth> there is an advanced setting for maximum station spread
21:39:30  <andythenorth> that controls how big a station can be / how far you can walk one
21:43:24  <HellTiger> ah
21:43:33  <HellTiger> thx
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21:49:13  <andythenorth> FIRS translations? o_O
21:49:19  <andythenorth> April 1 gets nearer...
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21:50:35  <V453000> andythenorth: wtf translation to be done? or ? :D
21:51:00  <andythenorth> V453000:
21:51:26  <andythenorth> oh looky, bundles built the documenation (prototype) :o
21:51:27  <andythenorth>
21:51:29  <andythenorth> :)
21:51:47  <V453000> ho :)
21:52:26  <V453000> hmmm czech not too complete, but I really, really, really do not want to do that :(
21:52:37  <frosch123> night
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21:56:29  <V453000> me too, bai
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21:58:38  <Superuser> help
21:58:41  <Superuser> help please
21:58:49  <Superuser>
21:59:00  <Superuser> aaanyone here
21:59:31  <Fira> nope
22:00:15  <Superuser> I need someone to help me with this server business
22:02:04  <Superuser> oh nvm
22:02:10  <Superuser> sorry for disturbing you
22:02:47  <Superuser> I underestimated the power and ease of use of the OpenTTD server application
22:03:15  *** adamt [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:07:05  <Wolf01> 'night
22:07:10  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:09:03  <HellTiger> how often you generate world until you pick it :P
22:10:47  <HellTiger> there was some where a time based profit table for a unit i think,
22:10:57  <HellTiger> cant remember
22:14:12  <dck42> guys, can I ask a dumb question? (of course Im gonna ask it anyways, but I wanted to draw some attention)
22:15:42  <dck42> the whole openttd team, the ways its organised in sub-projects etc - how did that originate? More specifically: if I want to try to establish sth similar for a web idea, where would u start?
22:15:57  <andythenorth> it's not dumb
22:16:01  <andythenorth> it's not a simple answer though
22:16:12  <dck42> thx :)
22:16:30  <Superuser> define web idea, dck42
22:16:34  <andythenorth> afaict, a lot of the ottd 'team' came together via tt-forums
22:16:38  <Superuser> tyou want to start an open source project?
22:16:53  <Superuser> that relates to the WWW?
22:17:05  <dck42> web idea: implementing a web app for some kind of creative exchange
22:17:10  <dck42> yes www
22:17:15  <dck42> yes
22:17:22  <dck42> (@ Superuser)
22:17:34  <Superuser> lol, irc is not twitter but thanks
22:17:40  <andythenorth> you need a team to build the app?
22:17:48  <andythenorth> or to be the people on the exchange?
22:17:50  <Superuser> basically, you can find an artist in a day
22:17:59  <Superuser> programmers for an open source project, not so easy
22:18:06  <dck42> well yes, its about gathering a team but also about finding a neat way to organise it and keep it alive
22:18:12  <Superuser> I'd recommend the book Open Ideas by Lydia Pintscher though
22:18:18  <Superuser> and other open source notables
22:18:42  <Superuser> oh Open Advice my bad
22:18:50  <Superuser>
22:18:58  <Superuser> absolute gold for what you wanna do, free dl as well
22:19:22  <dck42> mh ok thx for that already - a platform (sth like crowdsourcing) to originate such a cooperative u know of?
22:19:30  <dck42> ok!
22:19:54  <Superuser> crowdsourcing... what do you mean by that?
22:20:58  <dck42> :) I mean there are countless pages for gathering money or ideas for a project - is there sth more or less well known for gathering ppl to implement an open source project?
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22:22:05  <Superuser> oh uhh sort of
22:22:09  <Superuser> there is openhatch
22:22:14  <Superuser> but that's for really big projects
22:22:47  <Superuser> like the python programming language, though that's had mixed success on there due to the high barrier of entry (C, plus it's a goddamn programming language)
22:23:03  <Superuser> other than that GitHub is becoming the de facto source code host
22:23:13  <Superuser> I feel its interface is very conductive to attracting developers
22:23:24  <Superuser> e.g. showing you the code and languages upfront
22:24:28  <dck42> mh mh i c - I kind of did not feel it could draw ppl to ur project but perhaps? The thing is I wouldnt need too many. Two more programmers, 1 artist and 3-4 support admins
22:24:34  <dck42> sth like that to start with
22:25:11  <Superuser> are you involved in any open source project already? You could try asking them (or programmer friends)
22:25:15  <dck42> heck u could even start with just one more guy and keep graphics to minimum
22:25:19  <Superuser> that works very well
22:25:40  <Superuser> as for graphic designers (that's what you mean by artists, right? Unless you're doing a game) DeviantArt is your go-to place
22:25:47  <Superuser> you can find an artist in a day I said
22:25:59  <Superuser> as for support admins you will probably have to pay ;_;
22:26:10  <dck42> well the thing is: im a scientific programmer at a university (c++) and all my friends and colleagues feel like sth like this would be... dunno, below their radar
22:26:31  <Superuser> oh god C++
22:26:33  <Superuser> THE HORROR
22:26:37  <dck42> haha
22:26:47  <Superuser> protip: don't use C++ for your webapp ;_;
22:26:52  <Superuser> that said, hmm
22:26:52  <dck42> yes C++, multi-inheritance cp11 project
22:26:57  <Superuser> you identified a gap there
22:27:02  <Superuser> what about a C++ web framework
22:27:13  <Superuser> they are more or less nonexistent, or at least, they are not very good
22:27:23  <dck42> nah im using code igniter to build a small hirarchical mvc framework for my web app
22:27:41  <dck42> its neat but its hard to do all on ur own
22:28:12  <Superuser> interesting
22:28:17  <Superuser> but yeah read that book, it's short
22:28:24  <Superuser> I read it on my phone while commuting
22:28:45  <dck42> ok im gonna! Im kind of missing the insider knowledge and feelin where to get some ppl who are interested and decent programmers
22:28:47  <Superuser> get FBReader off the Play Store if you have an Android device, you will be sooo much stamrter
22:29:03  <Superuser> I would suggest that book, has everything you need to know about organising a project
22:29:13  <Superuser> and some seemingly unrelated parts like how to read a traceback lol
22:29:17  <Superuser> but it's good
22:29:25  <dck42> :-)
22:29:43  <dck42> well tracebacks u know well if u use cpp :)
22:30:15  <dck42> no better language to implement almost untraceable mem leaks
22:30:32  <Superuser> but yeah 5/5 book, most important section I find was the one about the person's failed project
22:30:40  <Superuser> he set up a website, contribution guides, stuff like that
22:30:48  <Superuser> wanted to make a powepoint-like program
22:30:55  <Superuser> and had a design doc, everything...
22:30:57  <Superuser> EXCEPT CODE
22:31:11  <Superuser> so make sure that when you launch, you have some code to go with it
22:31:23  <Superuser> I think the Discourse launch was an exemplary one
22:31:26  <Superuser> they had a demo up
22:31:29  <dck42> interesting
22:31:39  <Superuser> heard of Discourse? Or 'Forum 2.0'
22:31:47  <dck42> no
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22:32:38  <Superuser> it's by Jeff Attwood
22:32:56  <Superuser> so yeah for your mvc framework you want to have example code and stuff
22:33:04  <Superuser> when you announce it
22:33:58  <dck42> mh yes interesting - I know of such an example too, I think the problem is u should not and cannot start until u have some base code and at least one programmer
22:34:12  <dck42> but that would be given in my case
22:36:03  <Superuser> because... you are the programmer? lol
22:36:16  <dck42> basically I have my HMVC and some base modules - now I would give out the modules and say work on their code or create some new missing modules. Later u would give out the graphic stuff and language files in the same way.
22:36:25  <dck42> yes ;)
22:37:39  <dck42> The only thing that really makes me worry is the frontend: AJAX stuff.. somehow I feel that the "view" part in an mvc is still quiet messy and interlinked with the rest and doing AJAX stuff means u need deep knowledge of the "model" part etc
22:38:15  <dck42> I think finding a fronted person will be very very hard
22:38:37  <dck42> And I have no clue of javascript, jquery and alike - and I dont wonna learn it
22:39:43  <planetmaker> dck42, it all started with a person eager enough and with enough time at his hands to get something working
22:39:55  <planetmaker> and being open enough about what he did, allowing others to chime in
22:39:59  <Superuser> yeah JS is awful :(
22:40:00  <planetmaker> the rest grew.
22:40:12  <Superuser> though if you can understand cpp it should be no trouble, hehe
22:40:16  <Superuser> dart is nice
22:40:20  <Superuser> it compiles down to js
22:40:24  <Superuser> and introduces lots of features
22:40:35  <Superuser> Google Dart, 5/5
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22:41:09  <Superuser> * especially if you know Java or Smalltalk
22:41:26  <Superuser> or something smalltalk-like like Ruby, it is heavily OO like that
22:41:45  <Superuser> TL;DR: JavaScript is quickly becoming the assembly language of the web
22:42:07  <Superuser> everyone is writing assembly... but very few people directly (jQuery reimplements like half the language anyway)
22:46:54  <dck42> yes interesting thoughts Superuser
22:47:38  <dck42> planetmaker: yes ur right - Im kind of missing the time to do all I guess. But we'll see
22:48:12  <Superuser> well, most open source projects are one man projects for a while
22:48:24  <Superuser> unless you can put at least half the effort in yourself... no cigar
22:48:52  <Superuser> if you're new to open source I'd suggest contributing to someone else's project so you get a feel for the development model
22:49:01  <Superuser> like something you use every day, that's the best one
22:49:26  <Superuser> for instance, the best chess site on the net ( - fully free, no ads, anonymous play, fully open source)
22:50:13  <Superuser> (and so HTML5 it hurts - backend = Scala + Play framework - used to use PHP with Symfony2 but it didn't scale well at all)
22:50:24  <Superuser> ok that's enough plugging of lichess :)
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22:53:23  <Zuu> Oh, and there we go:   :-)
22:54:35  <Zuu> Clicking anywhere on the lines occupied by an item will trigger its action.
22:54:57  <Zuu> Maybe it should have horizontal lines as to get a more TTD-ish look.
22:55:46  <Superuser> wow
22:55:51  <Superuser> is that for real or just am ockup
22:55:56  <Zuu> It is real
22:56:00  <Superuser> also it would be 5/5 if goals can be named
22:56:02  <Superuser> omg i came
22:56:15  <dck42> hm hm :) I definitely feel it would be nice to help out other projects first - but there we go with the time issue again :)
22:56:19  <Superuser> when is that feature coming
22:56:44  <Zuu> Superuser: As soon as it is done, reviewed and ready to be included
22:57:03  <Superuser> will it be possible to name goals?
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22:57:18  <Zuu> Goals can be named currently
22:57:23  <Zuu> I mean in trunk.
22:58:11  <Zuu> The progress thingy and ability to mark goals as done is a patchc that floats around at the bottom of my goal-GUI patch queue.
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22:59:01  <Zuu> While I could include the second column in the Story book, it might be enough to just have a different icon for completed goals.
23:02:56  <Superuser> omg omg omg omg help
23:03:08  <Superuser> how can I set parameters for a server hgame
23:03:14  <Superuser> like for map generation
23:03:44  <Superuser> we want to start a new game as it is kind of f****d up on a 256 * 256 map
23:04:03  <Superuser> how can I set different parameters for map generation? only the dedicated server works btw, dunno why
23:04:59  <Superuser> well, this is 1.23, but basically I've run it through the terminal and it tries to set up an IPv6 connection when creating a server from the GUI. It does this with the -D flag too, but then it moves on to IPv4
23:05:30  <Superuser> _______________________________________________
23:05:49  <Superuser> so how do I set parameters for map generation on the server?
23:06:33  <dck42> bb guys thx for the advice!
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23:09:28  <andythenorth> bye
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23:15:16  <Zuu> Superuser: If you apply patch 10, 20 and 30 you will have the functionality shown earlier: . To actually use it you will also need a GS that add pages and page elements to the pages.
23:16:43  <Zuu> It might work out of the box without patch 10 for the moment.
23:17:37  <Superuser> so uhh
23:17:56  <Superuser> do you have an answer to my question Zuu? ^^
23:18:32  <Zuu> About map generation parameters?
23:18:52  <Superuser> yes
23:19:44  <Zuu> Make a map on your client, save it and upload to the server. That is usually the easiest way. But if you think you found a bug, try with trunk or see if the bug has been reported. If not report it to
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23:24:53  <Superuser> ok thx
23:24:57  <Superuser> you are a baws
23:39:08  <Superuser> hey umm Zuu sorry to be an ass, but how can you change starting money
23:39:19  <Superuser> and maximum denbs allowed
23:39:22  <Superuser> debts*
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23:39:30  <Zuu> Its in the advanced settings in 1.3 / trunk.
23:39:46  <Zuu> For 1.2.3 you find it in the difficulty settings.
23:40:43  <Superuser> ok thanks bro
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