Log for #openttd on 21st April 2013:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:20  <Supercheese> I guess they can do that by checking if the sub-height is not a multiple of eight... but then they'd have to check for ascending, descending, direction...
00:00:22  <Supercheese> hmm
00:00:34  <Supercheese> I wonder what checks that would take
00:00:54  <Supercheese> abuse temp storage?
00:01:18  <Eddi|zuHause> use articulated vehicles, and you have a height difference
00:01:43  <Supercheese> ah, yes
00:01:58  <Eddi|zuHause> or check the sub-X/X-position
00:02:11  <Eddi|zuHause> (you need to know driving side for that)
00:02:26  <Supercheese> that mightn't work for trains
00:02:56  <Supercheese> but anyway, I'm not particularly interested in sloped vehicles, though the thought is nice
00:03:22  <Eddi|zuHause> but you should also know the travel direction
00:03:41  <Supercheese> was more going for a check for (snowline_height - vehicle_height) to decide sprites for snowy/nonsnowy
00:03:49  <Eddi|zuHause> and there might also be ascending/descending flags somewhere
00:03:59  <Eddi|zuHause> lots of ways this can work
00:04:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure how they did it
00:04:07  <Supercheese> true enough
00:04:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i know how i would do it, but i won't do it, multiple angles is already bad enough :p
00:05:23  <Supercheese> CETS already has enormous sprite counts
00:05:40  <Supercheese> adding slopes would just make things far worse
00:05:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i currently use the height difference of var61 only to back out of the slicing magic
00:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause> because it won't work in non-flat situations
00:07:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it might be 4 or 12 additional views (+50%), until diagonal slopes are introduced...
00:08:10  <Supercheese> hah, diagonal slopes
00:08:22  <Supercheese> those'll happen when diagonal tunnels and bridges do, right ;) ?
00:08:44  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't think it'll be worth it, because it currently isn't that bad
00:09:04  <Supercheese> at 1x zoom things are fine
00:09:33  <Supercheese> at 4x zoom, well, many things look off but the funicularity of vehicles looks strange as well
00:09:43  <Supercheese> if "funicularity" is even a word
00:10:35  <Supercheese> 4x zoom... I still haven't worked on extra zoom sprites
00:10:41  <Supercheese> TMWFTLB
00:12:44  <Supercheese> does CETS do extra zoom sprites?
00:13:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd like to have x2 sprites, but x4 is probably overkill
00:14:07  <Eddi|zuHause> the current artists refused to do those, though
00:14:53  <Supercheese> I wonder if doing only 4x and having OTTD rescale the 2x would look ok
00:15:01  <Supercheese> rescale for 2x*
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00:19:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea
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00:53:27  <Supercheese> cargo capacity multipliers are weird
00:53:55  <Supercheese> 4 tons = 16 passengers
00:54:01  <Supercheese> those are some very heavy people :P
00:54:36  <Supercheese> I guess if you figure people + luggage it makes a tad more sense
00:59:46  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they're americans :p
00:59:53  <Supercheese> oh snap
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07:12:53  <Flygon> I should look into a better method of sorting out capacity problems...
07:13:00  <Flygon> On the upside, pun :B
07:14:44  <V453000> :P
07:14:48  <V453000> longer!
07:14:58  <V453000> well not quite in that screenshot
07:14:59  <V453000> but can be!
07:15:02  <V453000> :>
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07:15:07  <Flygon> looks like a giant duck doing North-West
07:15:30  <Flygon> ...
07:15:35  <Flygon> Are those. Boat. Trains?
07:15:40  <V453000> yes.
07:15:52  <Flygon> That, is, AWESOME
07:16:10  <V453000> in nuts :)
07:16:28  <Flygon> TODO: Play a NUTS game @_@
07:16:38  <V453000> :D
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07:17:38  <V453000> dont forget to update as it is in 0.4.8 or later
07:17:50  <V453000> or newer I should say I guess .. you get teh point :)
07:17:58  <Flygon> Either way, I'd like to get my current game done
07:18:01  <Flygon> Which may take nuts
07:18:12  <Flygon> Basically, build a European network until I run out of Vehicles :B
07:18:23  <Flygon> I'm dreading britian...
07:18:34  <Flygon> I have a half-built network there that I got bored with, so I went to Finland
07:18:45  <Flygon> And now I have Finns saying that my network is awesome
07:18:53  <Flygon> ...I talk to some really bored Finns
07:19:03  <Flygon> But not bored enough to drink @_@
07:19:08  <V453000> I cant say I had 5000 trains yet
07:19:14  <Flygon> Me neither
07:19:17  <Flygon> Just...
07:19:23  <Flygon> 312 atm
07:19:31  <Flygon> Over 2200 Trams/Trucks, though
07:19:35  <V453000> you can safely assume you cannot run out of vehicles then :D
07:19:49  <V453000> trucks are boring, 5000 on 256x256 is easy :s
07:20:10  <Flygon> This is a 2048*2048 map
07:20:19  <V453000> mygod
07:20:28  <Flygon> Only reason I have trucks, is because I actually ran out of room to build train lines
07:20:45  <Flygon> And I had passenger trains that need full through speed... and UKRS2 freight is slow
07:20:46  <V453000> you ran out of room on 2k x 2k? :D achievement
07:20:57  <Flygon> I ran out of room in Finland, and parts of Sweden
07:21:12  <V453000> :D oh a "real map" :D
07:21:17  <Flygon> If this was Rusisa, I would build more rail lines than tentacles in... you get my point
07:22:56  <Flygon> I really need to rework some of these lines with better train services...
07:23:36  <Flygon> I doubt I'll ever cover the whole of Europe with a rail network
07:23:48  <Flygon> That'd need a 16 player MP game and a lot of interested people :p
07:26:05  <Flygon> And I've been putting off other games D:
07:27:01  <Alberth> WET rails doesn't look very good with those bridges
07:27:53  <Rubidium> aren't wet rails just a poor excuse for having underperforming ships (loading capacity/station tile ratio)?
07:28:39  <Alberth> perhaps it's an effort to get non-colliding ships :)
07:28:40  <Flygon> V453000: Helsinki is absolutely screwed, either way. It's become 1970s Melbourne. Tram congestion. D:
07:29:27  <V453000> newbridges work best I think
07:29:55  <V453000> capacity or performance isnt really a thing, non/colliding and/or actually fun to build ships are more of a concern :)
07:32:36  <Flygon> It actually looks like one of my ships is jousting a giant duck...
07:34:48  <NGC3982> Morning.
07:35:13  <V453000> speaking of ducks ...
07:35:14  <V453000> :>
07:35:47  <V453000> you cant say no to these
07:36:03  <Flygon> Uniporn?
07:37:18  <V453000> yes, alternative name for unicorns
07:37:55  <Flygon> Gotcha
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08:50:06  <Terkhen> good morning
08:50:26  <V453000> merry christmas
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08:54:15  <Alberth> mornink
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09:24:37  <Zacharias> Guten Tag, habe mir OpenTTD 1.3.0 runtergeladen und spielen wollen! jetzt frag ich mich allerdings ob ich zu blöde bin. Ich kann zum einen nur Straßen- und Wasserstraßenbau betreiben. Und zum anderen kann ich keine Bushaltestellen, Bahnhöfe oder Àhnliches bauen um die ersten Grundlagen fÃŒrs weiter Spiel zu legen! kann mir jemand sagen was ich Falsch mache???
09:27:29  <__ln__> Welche Jahr ist es?
09:28:04  <Zacharias> Wie meinst??? Ingame???
09:29:40  <__ln__> Ich weiß doch das outgame-Jahr...
09:30:23  <Zacharias> ich glaube das jahr spielt dabei keine rolle, immer wenn ich ein spiel starte kann ich einfach keine grundlagen schaffen
09:31:03  <Zacharias> sorry, ja klar weist das outgame jahr ^^ lol
09:33:25  <Zacharias> das startjahr lÀsst sich ja Àndern, aber das prob bleibt das selbe! ich fange an, an mir zu zweifeln!
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09:40:34  <planetmaker> Zacharias, probier 1950 als Startjahr ohne NewGRFs
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09:40:39  <planetmaker> moin frosch123
09:40:51  <frosch123> hola
09:41:52  <Rubidium> EHLO
09:42:27  <Zacharias> ok, danke planetmaker. ist hier öfter mal jemand um anzutreffen??? nur fÌr den fall das ich mal probs habe!
09:43:06  <frosch123> __ln__ is always ehre
09:44:20  <planetmaker> hola Rubidium
09:44:36  <planetmaker> Zacharias, ja. Und gewöhnlich ist die Sprache hier Englisch jedoch
09:45:24  <Zacharias> isses sehr schlimm wenn ich deutsch schreibe??? mein englisch ist leider sehr schlecht!
09:48:02  <planetmaker> kommt drauf an :-)
09:51:56  <Zacharias> ok, dann hoffe ich das ihr mir wohl gesonnen seid! ^^ denn ich habe ein weiteres prob ^^
09:54:06  <Zacharias> wenn ich das Game Starte kommt als ersten eine Nachricht in der steht ---> Fehler in der Konfigurations-Datei ...     ...ungÃŒltiger Wert "false" fÃŒr "difficult.economy"
09:55:17  <planetmaker> lösch die Zeile mit 'difficulty' aus openttd.cfg wenn OpenTTD nicht lÀuft
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09:56:03  <Wolf01> moin
09:56:12  <Zacharias> das prob mit den Bushaltestellen ist weg wenn ich 1950 starte, danke schon mal dafÃŒr ^^
09:57:10  <planetmaker> moin Wolf01
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10:05:49  <Zacharias> @planetmaker, habe die ordner vom Game durchsucht, kann die von dir genannte Datei aber nicht finden! :(
10:15:16  <Alberth> wir haben ein sprech deutsch tag heute?
10:15:42  <Alberth> moin Wolf01
10:16:00  <frosch123> Alberth: yes, it's 21th of april, which is almost 23th of mai
10:17:05  <Alberth> ah, a new season, that explains everything :)
10:18:07  <frosch123> ah, true, we are about in the middle between spring start and 23th of mai
10:19:40  <planetmaker> moin Alberth :-)
10:19:56  <Alberth> gute morgen planetmaker :)
10:20:47  <planetmaker> Zacharias, listet alle möglichen Orte
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10:21:59  <Alberth> try to get him to read one english file and he's gone :)
10:25:42  <planetmaker> :-) yeah
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12:56:25  <swissfan91> Good Afternoon everyone
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12:58:22  <swissfan91> Is it possible to code rails that show different graphics on the snow transitions?
13:03:05  <planetmaker> afaik no
13:03:23  <planetmaker> you only have snow / no snow info
13:03:55  <planetmaker> though with railtypes that's imho hardly an issue as the base tiles are not part of the railtype sprites, thus show the transition
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13:07:37  <swissfan91> I can't seem to make them show the transition - track placed on the 3/4 snow transition shows full snow under the rail..
13:08:18  <frosch123> yeah, rails geneally have only a snow flag
13:08:30  <planetmaker> I might have remembered that wrongly. If so, should not be a newgrf issue, but an openttd one
13:08:31  <frosch123> actually, all buildings have
13:08:43  <frosch123> only plain tiles have different shades
13:08:59  <frosch123> and house / industry grfs which trick the system
13:09:05  <planetmaker> :-)
13:09:14  <planetmaker> lengthy template I once wrote for that :D
13:09:37  <swissfan91> so this "trick on the system" cannot be replicated for tracks, trees, roads etc?
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13:09:58  <planetmaker> no
13:10:31  <planetmaker> nor IMHO should it be needed. OpenTTD should draw the transition w/o newgrf intervention there as it easily could
13:10:35  <planetmaker> "easily"
13:11:16  <swissfan91> so how would that happen?
13:11:46  <frosch123> ottd would just do the right thing
13:11:52  <frosch123> nothing a grf has to worry about
13:11:59  <planetmaker> rail is drawn on default ground tiles, railtypes draw no ground tile
13:12:25  <planetmaker> what frosch sais
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13:13:08  <swissfan91> I mean - how can we make OTTD do this?
13:13:16  <planetmaker> changing its code
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13:13:54  <frosch123> removing the snow bits from the map array, and instead calculate it on the fly
13:13:56  <Tom_Soft>
13:14:01  <Tom_Soft> Sorry for spam.
13:14:37  <swissfan91> Ah, so a big job then?
13:14:56  <planetmaker> small to medium
13:15:05  <frosch123> rahter medium :)
13:15:23  <swissfan91> well that's slightly better news then :)
13:15:39  <swissfan91> normally when map array is involved I normally get under the desk and hide.
13:15:43  <frosch123> i believe it's even on my todo list, at position 120 or so :p
13:16:03  <planetmaker> :D I think I've seen a patch for that end by michi
13:16:05  <Rubidium> and given the recent commit rates...
13:16:12  <planetmaker> or sma7z. Not sure
13:16:19  <frosch123> planetmaker: both :p
13:16:22  <planetmaker> :D
13:16:52  <Rubidium> I bet peter "I have a patch for that" 1139 has one as well
13:17:56  <Rubidium> frosch123: does the todo list have any non-openttd related things on it?
13:18:03  <swissfan91> well that's great, thanks guys!
13:18:15  <Rubidium> or are the first 20 things stuff like "do laundry" and "do groceries"?
13:18:31  <frosch123> Rubidium: i only meant the ottd-subtree
13:18:36  <swissfan91> I won't start drawing loads of transition trees, roads and rails quite yet then..
13:18:47  <Rubidium> swissfan91: usually someone having a patch for something and not committing it means there's something horribly wrong with it
13:21:36  <swissfan91> hmmm, maybe it's the patch that is making it snow in April then!
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13:36:33  <juzza1> can I set different graphics for loading and unloading a train wagon in NML?
13:37:08  <frosch123> nope
13:38:02  <juzza1> ok
13:38:43  <frosch123> you can only distinguish "at station" vs. "moving on track"
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14:27:39  <RavingManiac> A thought
14:27:58  <RavingManiac> You can gauge the skill level of a player by the number of tracks he has on his mainline
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14:28:29  <RavingManiac> 1-track = Newbie, 2-track = Just got the hang of it
14:28:56  <RavingManiac> 4+-track = Competent
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14:29:34  <Flygon> What if
14:29:36  <Flygon> Raving
14:29:41  <planetmaker> doubt it, RavingManiac
14:29:41  <Flygon> I use a variable number of tracks?
14:29:52  <Flygon> Based on the need for the capacity of certain sections of track?
14:31:52  <Flygon> In fact
14:32:09  <Flygon> To use single track well, is an art in itself
14:32:12  <planetmaker> RavingManiac, depending on the map - and more so on the network layout - you need more or less. Adopted to the industries distribution, too
14:32:31  <Flygon> I find myself using single track surprisingly often, for instance
14:32:41  <Alberth> just detection of number of tracks is already very difficult
14:32:52  <Flygon> Mostly for passenger branchlines that lack much passenger use, but also get a lot of freight
14:33:03  <Flygon> The justification for the line being the freight, and the passenger being an extension
14:33:13  <Flygon> The trick to this? Crossing loops around the shared track
14:33:58  <planetmaker> RavingManiac, and if you play, for instance, with a goal script, competence certainly can't be measured that easily either.
14:34:04  <Flygon> Therefor, the best track in OpenTTD, is a single track line that is well managed and free flowing
14:34:24  <planetmaker> My networks with e.g. NoCarGoal look distinctly more different - and quick'n dirty than I build w/o a goal script
14:35:57  <Flygon> Four tracks is very wasteful, either way.
14:38:55  <planetmaker> 2x2 is not to bad. if it's 4x2, that's hardly ever needed
14:39:01  <planetmaker> *too
14:40:29  <Rubidium> 2x2 is very useful if you try to make a realistic-ish passenger scenario
14:40:47  <Rubidium> one track for ICs, one track for slow traffic
14:41:09  <Rubidium> although, with enough acceleration and timetabling you could try the shinkansen approach
14:41:10  <Flygon> Oh yes
14:41:16  <Flygon> That's perfectly alright
14:41:27  <Flygon> I normally employ the Shinkansen approach
14:41:40  <Flygon> 2x2 is another one I do use sometimes
14:42:50  <Rubidium> <- is that competent? ;)
14:43:58  <Rubidium> maybe there's another measure of competence: the number of tracks built on top of eachother
14:44:20  <Rubidium> that one has at least a place with 3 tracks and an aqueduct
14:44:55  <Flygon> Is this competent?
14:45:08  <Flygon> I could dump a full screenshot, but I'd run out of RAM :B
14:45:29  <Rubidium> can't tell, how many "tracks" are there on top of eachother in the busiest parts?
14:45:45  <Flygon> I'll have to take an indepth screenie of bits
14:46:08  <Flygon> Either way
14:46:10  <Flygon> I am impressed
14:46:14  <Flygon> By you, that is
14:46:44  <Flygon> I'm too obsessed with high speed curves
14:47:04  <Rubidium> it's an ancient game though; pre-trunkification of path signals
14:47:08  <V453000> Rubidium: :P
14:47:24  <Eddi|zuHause> since we're at throwing screenshots of the game at each other:,%2013.%20Apr%202027.png
14:47:53  <Rubidium> V453000: yep, that's competent ;)
14:49:29  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: can't find any place that shows competence ;)
14:50:03  <Flygon> Uuh
14:50:05  <Flygon> Slight issue
14:50:08  <Flygon> I'd upload a screenie
14:50:10  <Flygon> But it's 16mb
14:50:11  <Flygon> ...
14:50:14  * Flygon turns off trees
14:50:30  <Flygon> 7.2mb now
14:50:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: can't find any at yours either :p
14:53:55  <Flygon> I am not a great network designer
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14:54:57  <Flygon> I really gotta upgrade the Haapamaki line...
14:55:04  <Flygon> It's a single track branch gone wrong
14:56:15  <Pinkbeast> Single track branches in OTTD rarely work well. :-/
14:56:27  <Flygon> It got upgraded to double track
14:56:32  <Flygon> But I didn't upgrade the station...
14:56:38  <Flygon> Now I'm gonna need more longer trains
14:57:00  <Eddi|zuHause> you make these "lakes" yourself, or are those now part of the river generation?
14:57:06  <Pinkbeast> And the local authority loathes you because you once touched a tree?
14:57:11  <Flygon> Eddi: A real world based map
14:57:24  <Flygon> Realism ended up giving way to 'tunnels' >_>
14:57:43  <Eddi|zuHause> the aqueducts are weird...
14:58:05  <Flygon> It was the best I could do x.x
14:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause> in half the places you could have just used bridges
14:59:05  <Flygon> There's signalling under the aqueducts
15:00:19  <Eddi|zuHause> you have waaay too much space on this map :p
15:00:37  <Flygon> It's 2048*2048 @_@
15:00:59  <Flygon> I have played smaller maps, though
15:01:28  <Flygon> Generally 256*256 to 1024*1024
15:01:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i think mine was 128x256
15:03:00  <V453000> 256x256 :>
15:04:12  <V453000> (15mb)
15:05:29  <Flygon> Not bad
15:05:31  <Flygon> either way
15:05:33  <Flygon> I gotta sleep
15:05:41  <Flygon> Waking up in 7 hours to drop a kid off to school
15:05:52  <Flygon> And damned if he's going to get killed due to sleep deprevation of the driver
15:06:05  <Flygon> Unless irl is actually a game of OpenTTD
15:06:16  <Flygon> In which case, I'll get trapped in a 3 track rail crossing
15:06:23  <Flygon> Man...
15:06:40  <Flygon> If the Werribee level crossing got reproduced in OpenTTD
15:06:46  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a creeper driving the slug! :p
15:06:50  <Flygon> You'd have SO MANY car crashes
15:07:23  <Flygon> Hyvaa yota
15:08:11  <Eddi|zuHause> you misplaced your À's
15:08:15  <V453000> there are various things Eddi :P
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15:12:39  <planetmaker> V453000, a pity that you switched on transparency :-)
15:13:29  <V453000> :o
15:14:08  <V453000> well yeah :)
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15:36:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i should break my computer now...
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15:36:52  <V453000> operational
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15:52:14  <juzza1> is there a way to change sprites depending on if you flip your train in the depot?
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15:52:33  <juzza1> im thinkin no, because vehicle_is_reversed  variable doesnt change when you flip the train in depot
15:52:55  <V453000> sure is
15:52:58  <V453000> sec
15:54:35  <V453000>
15:54:41  <V453000> I use this thing
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15:55:04  <V453000> the bottom one asks if vehicle is reversed
15:55:22  <V453000> 0xFD says it is not, the other two values say it is
15:55:42  <V453000> in my case I use further switches to only show alternate sprites in the depot when vehicle is stopped
15:57:22  <V453000> e.g. I use the left column of sprites for not reversed sprites, the right one for reversed ( it just adds a flip arrow )
15:57:40  <V453000> as I use this only for symmetric trains
15:57:55  <V453000> juzza1: ^
15:59:13  <juzza1> thanks, ill see if i can get it working
15:59:40  <V453000> feel free to ask if you dont
16:01:38  <juzza1> thinking about the variables in that code, they can probably be found in some documentation?
16:02:28  <V453000> I suppose in the grf specs
16:03:44  <V453000> if you use exactly the switch I used, it will work
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16:08:37  <juzza1> is that code only for the depot window?
16:08:49  *** APTX [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:09:43  <V453000> only if you use the top 2 switches
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16:10:04  <V453000> switch_railmedium9_reversing is the one which asks if the train is flipped
16:10:35  <V453000> which has output to the normal spriteset of the train if the train is not flipped ( the first output)
16:10:47  <V453000> or to another switch if the train is flipped
16:11:07  <V453000> the another switches are what makes it apply only to depots as those two ask if train is in the depot, and if it is stopped
16:11:49  <V453000> var[0xC8, 0, 0xFF] is apparenltly like "vehicle_is_flipped" if that value exists/existed
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16:12:50  <juzza1> not working at least yet, i gotta think a little more though cause getting confused
16:12:59  <juzza1> i just flips the train but sprite is the same
16:13:11  <juzza1> *it
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16:13:46  <V453000> paste the code :)
16:13:52  <planetmaker> hm, is var 0xC8 missing from NML, V453000 ?
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16:15:26  <V453000> I suppose pm, I doubt I would have done it this monstrous way otherwise
16:16:57  <planetmaker> hm, I wonder if there was a reason...
16:17:15  <V453000> cant help you there :s
16:17:42  <planetmaker> doesn't vehicle_is_reversed do what you need?
16:18:36  <juzza1> here is the code
16:18:43  <juzza1> the train will flip, but sprite wont change
16:19:12  <juzza1> and the flipping in depot is somehow glitched, cause the train sprite just jumps? so as if it flips the flipped sprite
16:19:31  <juzza1> and i tested the vehicle_is_reversed, doesnt change if you flip in depot
16:19:57  <V453000> you didnt use the switch block in graphics block ?
16:20:03  <V453000> default: switch_bla
16:20:24  <V453000> default: switch_railmedium9_reversing;
16:20:46  <V453000> not sure if you need to load spritesets before switches they are used in, maybe not
16:21:37  <V453000> I suppose it doesnt pm :s I would guess I tried that when I was attempting to make this feature work
16:21:48  <V453000> what it did or how I do not remember atm though
16:21:59  <V453000> but I think just nothing happened
16:22:21  <V453000> or is vehicle_is_reversed for depot? or is it like the shunting thing UKRS uses?
16:22:27  <juzza1> yeah it doesn't need the default: necessarily, and i tried loading the spritesets first (and also adding default:) but it's still the same, not working properly
16:23:00  <juzza1> vehicle_is_reversed changes (for me) when you use the reverse arrow in the train window
16:23:29  <juzza1> or when you send the train to depot, and it reverses itself (because TRAIN_FLAG_FLIP is active)
16:23:44  <V453000> a stopped, flipped, and depotted vehicle does not change sprites?
16:24:16  <juzza1> no, at least i cant get it to change no matter what i do
16:25:28  <juzza1> correction: might change in the depot, but isn't changed when the train leaves depot, i will try with a sprite from which i can tell for 100% certainty
16:25:49  <V453000> good
16:26:06  <V453000> 0xFE: switch_railmedium9_stopped; 0xFF: switch_railmedium9_stopped;
16:26:10  <V453000> replace these two lines with
16:26:31  <V453000> 0xFE: spriteset_DI_DV12_flipped; 0xFF: spriteset_DI_DV12_flipped;
16:26:46  <V453000> you dont want to check if the vehicle is stopped or depotted
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16:39:45  <V453000> aany success?
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16:48:06  <juzza1> managed to break something here, gonna take a sec
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17:27:14  <juzza1> had some funky stuff happening, but basically now what it does is that the flipping sort of works, but it takes the sprites in the bottom row in mirrored order
17:27:39  <juzza1> if you count from the left, the sprite order would be 56781234 instead of the normal 12345678
17:28:43  <V453000> hm
17:28:53  <V453000> well yeah because it still is reversed I guess
17:29:07  <V453000> you could create a new template for the spritesets which just uses it in the other order
17:29:14  <V453000> and define the flipped spriteset that way
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17:33:52  <juzza1> yeah
17:33:59  <juzza1> found the variables
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17:35:36  <juzza1> thanks for all the help :D
17:35:49  <V453000> np :)
17:39:02  <Wolf01> bye
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17:43:56  <juzza1> so this is what happens: with your method only when flipping in depot is the variable "vehicle is flipped" changed, but if you use "vehicle_is_reversed " provided in NML documentation, that variable changes both when flipping in depot, AND when reversing the train with the reverse direction arrow
17:45:26  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25195 /trunk/src/lang (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-04-21 17:45:18 UTC)
17:45:27  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:28  <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 19 changes by Phreeze
17:45:29  <DorpsGek> gaelic - 244 changes by GunChleoc
17:45:30  <DorpsGek> tamil - 2 changes by aswn
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17:48:49  <V453000> interesting
17:49:46  <juzza1> i gave bogus information earlier because my sprite got me all confused, but now i tested it with 4-color sprite and couldnt be more certain
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17:50:17  <V453000> :)
17:50:32  <V453000> well, at least you got it working now :)
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17:51:45  <planetmaker> that's intended, yes
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17:51:52  <planetmaker> as each time the train reverses
17:51:58  <planetmaker> or rather reversal changes
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18:55:49  <Eddi|zuHause> why is it, the quieter a computer gets, the more you are annoyed by every sound it makes?
18:56:32  <Rubidium> the same reason that every bugfix yields more bugs than it solves
19:00:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i soon will just put the computer in the next room, and figure out a way to get the cables through the wall :p
19:01:13  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: ;)
19:02:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, about what i thought :)
19:02:14  <Rubidium> although this might be a bit too big
19:02:58  <Eddi|zuHause> you get difficulties plugging in USB devices or inserting DVDs, though
19:03:19  <Supercheese> USB extension cables
19:04:53  <V453000> ^
19:05:07  <V453000> sounds like a good idea though :D my pc makes a terrible amount of noise
19:05:13  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: any decent monitor should have some USB hub inside it ;)
19:05:31  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but not a USB3 hub
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19:06:07  <Eddi|zuHause> which already annoys me now, since USB3 ports are only at the back of the computer
19:06:48  <Rubidium> my brother did something like that, with a slightly smaller one, and used over the hole
19:14:32  <DDR> Oh, nice.
19:14:41  <DDR> Wouldn't have thought of that solution.
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20:01:11  <Supercheese> Hmm, my USB3 port is at the front of my computer...
20:01:17  <Supercheese> but I only have 1
20:01:31  <frosch123> what device do you need it for?
20:02:18  <Supercheese> I have an external enclosure for a hard drive
20:02:18  <planetmaker> for my card reader
20:04:30  <frosch123> i also have an external hdd, but usb2 is just enough for rsync
20:04:35  <frosch123> i do not have that much new data
20:04:57  <frosch123> i do not backup ottd binaries :p
20:06:01  <__ln__> i'd need usb3 for my keyboard
20:06:19  <frosch123> true, it limits by apm
20:07:27  <frosch123> luckily my (likely 15 year old) keyboard is ps/2
20:09:00  <oskari89> Does someone know something about OpenTTD's Scenario editor's heightmap?
20:09:09  <Supercheese> What's the question?
20:09:10  <oskari89> And the way it's processed?
20:09:57  <oskari89> It would be absolutely awesome if one could draw rivers with some colour on heightmap
20:10:18  <frosch123>
20:11:21  <oskari89> Because there is like 10^6 lakes here, nearby, and when i'm trying to do those heightmaps, the lakes are always problematic
20:11:51  <Supercheese> Extended heightmap format is not implemented yet
20:13:14  <oskari89> If you paint them (lakes) with 0 meters on photoshop or so on land which is about 200 meters or so (up from sea level), you'll end up with not-so-nice cliffs near lakes
20:13:38  <oskari89> And the quantity of lakes, them being on different levels...
20:15:35  <Supercheese> Pretty sure you can't have rivers in heightmaps yet in trunk
20:16:20  <oskari89>
20:16:34  <oskari89> "Sea: Only tiles at zero height can be marked as sea. OpenTTD will treat any tiles marked as sea above height zero as rivers. "
20:16:38  <frosch123> if the heightmap has valley for rivers, the river generator is very likely to use them though
20:16:40  <Supercheese> Pretty sure that's not implemented yet
20:16:46  <frosch123> try the corsica heightmap on 2kx2k
20:17:15  <frosch123> and yes, the extended heightmap stuff is not implemented
20:17:32  <oskari89> Yes, but when it's implemented... Can it work that way?
20:17:38  <Supercheese> sure
20:17:41  <oskari89> !!
20:17:49  <oskari89> I'll be waiting for that :)
20:17:54  <Supercheese> we all are :)
20:18:57  <oskari89> Then, one needs to mark all lakes with that water layer... 8)
20:19:11  <oskari89> D'oh
20:20:02  <oskari89> I suppose photoshop has some smart options for that :P
20:21:17  <planetmaker> would then be easy to do that stuff in layered graphics
20:21:28  <planetmaker> any decent pixel editor should offer that
20:21:30  <frosch123> likely you would use layers inside the psd
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20:26:38  <oskari89> Is someone working on that feature? :)
20:28:14  * Rubidium ponders citing Schroedinger
20:28:24  <V453000> take it from the bright side, you can be the first ! :D
20:28:58  <planetmaker> Rubidium, don't measure it or the wave (function) will collapse?
20:30:03  <Rubidium> yeah, and if you try to figure it out... an universe will be created where it did happen and one where it didn't happen. Question is, in which universe do you end up?!?
20:30:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese> but I only have 1 <-- how does that work? i have only ever seen USB ports come in pairs
20:31:35  <Rubidium> that's also why I usually keep you pondering whether I've gone to bed already ;)
20:33:55  <planetmaker> :D
20:35:30  <TWerkhoven> other is used internally for a cardreader or other internal usb thing?
20:36:01  <V453000> how do I recognize if I am a cow or not?
20:36:05  <V453000> moo
20:36:18  <TWerkhoven> release the bull
20:36:35  <V453000> no bull around here :(
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20:37:24  <Muxy> ehlo
20:37:58  <Supercheese> Eddi|zuHause:
20:38:05  <Supercheese> Middle port is USB3
20:38:08  <Supercheese> others are USB2
20:38:30  <Eddi|zuHause> that page fails
20:38:44  <V453000> elo
20:39:03  <Supercheese> works for me
20:39:06  <Supercheese> hmm
20:39:10  <V453000> I heard Syl59 is having some good influence on goulp :P
20:39:12  <Supercheese> try
20:39:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that fails even worse
20:39:55  <Muxy> Eddi|zuHause: set language to english
20:40:18  <Supercheese> odd
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20:41:43  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, it's one of those "named .png but .jpg inside" pictures
20:41:50  <TWerkhoven> <-- that one?
20:42:12  <Muxy> V453000: syl59 has nothing to do with goulp
20:42:29  <V453000> no? :d I thought that is how your community is called
20:42:44  <Supercheese> yes, that one
20:42:49  <Muxy> syl59 belongs to openttd France
20:43:00  <V453000> oh, french wars :D
20:43:04  <Muxy> nope
20:43:37  <Muxy> and OpenTTD France is my new toy
20:43:48  <V453000> oh :)
20:44:35  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: so that still doesn't answer where it hides the 2nd usb port
20:44:48  <Supercheese> "- 1 x USB 3.0 "
20:44:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: and why do you need all those system fans?
20:45:06  <Supercheese> I got the case as a package deal, I didn't select it on its own merits
20:45:15  <Supercheese> the case fans are a pain, really
20:45:24  <Muxy> and what do you mean by good influence ?
20:45:36  <TWerkhoven> guess it just uses a single connection
20:47:10  <V453000> teaching people there how to build :P
20:47:57  <Muxy> how to build network ?
20:48:44  <V453000> yeah
20:49:23  <Muxy> yop he's doing some great job at openttd France
20:49:58  <V453000> :) nice to hear
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20:53:17  <Muxy> V453000: as you can see when you visit it
20:53:57  <V453000> it is passworded isnt it
20:54:55  <Muxy> what is passworded ?
20:55:16  <V453000> ah I see you have multiple servers
20:55:51  <V453000> well the unpassworded server is not exactly impressive with 40 ships :D
20:56:31  <Muxy> 3 unpassworded servers
20:57:15  <V453000> weird sorting, now I see them
20:57:36  <Muxy> and 2 protected for members only
20:57:47  <V453000> oh :D I see you use NUTS on coop server
20:58:08  <Muxy> yop, nice grf
20:58:36  <Muxy> with the universal rails
20:58:51  <frosch123> night
20:58:54  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:59:53  <Muxy> and as you're a member, you should be able to access to them
21:00:02  <V453000> wtf? me? :D
21:00:07  <Muxy> yop
21:00:18  <V453000> how can I be a member of ttd france? :D
21:00:35  <Muxy> by registering
21:00:48  <Muxy> i have a Vaclav Benc user
21:00:54  <V453000> oh :D I guess I did that some time ago
21:00:59  <V453000> that be me
21:02:17  <V453000> I suppose I wasnt able to find the password on the french page :)
21:02:31  <Muxy> then ask google to translate...
21:03:57  <V453000> pretty sure I did that
21:08:50  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:09:43  <V453000> nope, cant say I can find anything there even with a translator, not sure if I am blind or what ... right?
21:10:11  <Muxy> about server password ?
21:10:28  <Muxy> its in the "Partie Libre" Forum, the sticky post
21:11:03  <Muxy> but you need to be logged in
21:11:12  <planetmaker> g'night
21:12:09  <V453000> oh :) well logging in shouted 403
21:12:34  <V453000> Error 403  We're sorry, but we could not fulfill your request for /users.php on this server.  You do not have permission to access this server. Data may not be posted from offsite forms.
21:13:09  <Muxy> Referer did not point to a form on this site
21:15:09  <V453000> wonder if that could have possibly been because of incorrect password, but it is a weird error even if it was
21:15:41  <Muxy> may be
21:17:39  <V453000> you really have some strange page showing difference between registered and unregistered users :D
21:18:01  <Muxy> or may be using the logging form from google translation
21:19:03  <Muxy> as registred and logged in, you have access to more content
21:19:45  <V453000> well I understand that wiki/forum posting/editing is for registered only, but showing content sounds rather ridiculous
21:20:09  <Muxy> bah
21:21:09  <Muxy> forum content is reserved for members
21:21:44  <Muxy> but not all
21:22:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'll screw up my system some more
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21:23:15  <V453000> hm, in whichever translation (I somewhat understand french) I cant find the password there, but whatever
21:23:36  <Muxy> forum "Our Servers" "Free Games"
21:27:39  <glx> just checked the post, it's probably hard to translate for a tool
21:27:55  <Muxy> sure
21:28:06  <Muxy> and a bit hard to read all
21:28:23  <glx> yeah even untranslated :)
21:28:27  <V453000> I found it in the french version
21:28:38  <V453000> but the czech translation was so twisted that I couldnt find it there :D
21:29:08  <Muxy> then glx, you will make us a beautifull short post explaining how to connect to the servers...
21:30:25  <V453000> either way, I am not sure if 1k x  1k map is beneficial for cooperative games :D
21:30:33  <V453000> the towns create insane amount of cpu stress
21:31:00  <V453000> at least disabling them to be able building roads is a good idea ... when they want to play a passenger based game, they can at least control the growth :)
21:32:04  <Muxy> bah its a simle coop game, more used to learn how to play
21:32:32  <Muxy> not the way openttdcoop use it
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21:32:43  <V453000> still a map which is accessible by not being massively demanding on hardware is helpful
21:34:41  <Muxy> bah
21:34:52  <V453000> not bah :)
21:35:18  <V453000> in fact people generally learn more on a smaller map because more problems need solving earlier and with less pc stress
21:37:07  <Muxy> but on that game our players were not as cooperative as the should have been
21:37:33  <Muxy> cause no "game master" to animate
21:38:17  <V453000> yeah well, I say that all the time, good server needs an admin who is playing there :)
21:39:05  <Muxy> sure
21:43:02  <V453000> it is easy to make the "game master" after a short while even if the person isnt an admin though :) just needs an active player
21:45:31  <Muxy> in coop game, yes
21:46:03  <V453000> even without cooperating
21:46:27  <Muxy> then it's better to give some extra power
21:46:48  <Muxy> not the whole console access but allow some commands
21:47:27  <V453000> well I dont mean executively, of course such a player is not able to get rid of griefers and such, but he makes the server alive and makes people return back there, obviously the more such players the better
21:48:14  <V453000> obviously that person gets to be an admin sooner or later usually simple to the fact that he is there all the time
21:48:23  <V453000> but it isnt necessary for making a server alive
21:48:32  <Muxy> before admin, we have moderators
21:49:01  <V453000> those are all nice but that does not really make the server
21:49:12  <V453000> every server has an admin, but there are only a few good servers
21:49:43  <V453000> if you have a player who is able to help people, explain things to them ,or just point them at the right direction if he does not know, people will likely return there
21:50:32  <Muxy> sure, but ot needs also some extra power to kick bad players
21:50:58  <Muxy> and to be a good server, need to have some people to animate
21:51:21  <Muxy> this is a 24/7 jpb
21:51:25  <Muxy> *job
21:52:35  <V453000> well the more often the better obviously :)
21:54:08  <Muxy> bed time... cya later
21:54:23  <V453000> bai
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