Log for #openttd on 8th May 2013:
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07:37:53  <NGC3982> My word.
07:46:35  <V453000> germans: do you have a free day today?
07:46:46  <V453000> like a national day of whatever
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07:51:23  <peter1138> what about your word?
07:52:26  <V453000> my word?
07:53:44  * NGC3982 hits the big autism gong gong.
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07:59:02  <planetmaker> no free day today
07:59:10  <planetmaker> free day tomorrow, though
08:01:53  <V453000> thats what wiki said :)
08:02:01  <V453000> thanks :)
08:02:14  <V453000> btw ... desert nogrid is apparently in some different file xD
08:02:28  <planetmaker> I saw that. Might be. Sorry about that
08:02:41  <planetmaker> I didn't yet check that either, but I guess he's right
08:03:02  <V453000> I definitely thihnk he is, the red colour really is weird
08:03:19  <planetmaker> I probably changed something there. And thought it's better to use one file per set of landscape sprites. Rather than one big with all
08:03:27  <planetmaker> (less bloat in repository for one pixel change)
08:03:35  <planetmaker> But... more confusing this way
08:04:17  <V453000> I am totally lost in ogfx/ogfx-landscape file structure :D
08:04:40  <planetmaker> I can understand that somewhat :-)
08:04:41  <V453000> but I dont think you would be lost any less in nuts :D
08:04:51  <planetmaker> ^^:-P
08:05:16  <planetmaker> in the end one has to check the code which sprites are actually used :-)
08:05:52  <V453000> exactly
08:06:23  <planetmaker> and for desert it indeed uses src/gfx/desert.png
08:06:26  <V453000> e.g. I have one gigantic file for express wagons - tons of liveries for various trains ... BUT some of them are in different files. exactly same case
08:06:38  <planetmaker> yup :D
08:06:48  <V453000> fixed, added to 5555
08:07:00  <planetmaker> :-)
08:07:47  <planetmaker> it starts to get time for a new release for ogfx-landscape
08:08:45  <V453000> :)
08:11:17  <planetmaker> there, fixed in repo
08:11:38  <planetmaker> thanks for the quick fix to you :-)
08:11:44  <V453000> lets see how many versions will there be :D
08:11:50  <V453000> np :)
08:11:51  <planetmaker> I'm not concerned :-)
08:12:07  <planetmaker> better more versions than no versions ;-)
08:12:15  <V453000> :)
08:12:34  <planetmaker> <-- changelog so far for a new release :D
08:13:22  <V453000> river sprites? :o
08:13:38  <V453000> looks nice to me
08:13:38  <planetmaker> well... It didn#t have its own. Now it uses OpenGFX' river sprites
08:13:57  <planetmaker> It's still not perfect. They're not all w/o grid lines
08:13:58  <V453000> right
08:14:25  <planetmaker> Basically it was like copy river.pnml. copy 87 png files. Adopt paths. Done :-P
08:14:40  <V453000> BTW ogfx gridless grass looks like a total lawn :P though the only thing that saves is that grass has rough tiles and the stones ... which snow does not
08:15:25  <planetmaker> Yes. I know... Not changing that before the next release
08:15:39  <V453000> not suggesting that either :)
08:15:50  <planetmaker> but I started toying with ground tiles
08:16:12  <planetmaker> it's difficult. Not sure anything ever will come of it :-P
08:16:27  <V453000> I think it is the hardest thing to do actually
08:16:34  <V453000> or at least from what I tried so far
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08:18:32  <planetmaker> I only ended up with more lawn: :-P
08:19:51  <NGC3982> cool
08:21:21  <V453000> :D
08:21:26  <V453000> that is 32bpp right?
08:21:30  <planetmaker> yes
08:21:48  <planetmaker> I'll toy around with 32bpp sprites. And convert when I'm somewhat satisfied
08:22:10  <planetmaker> otherwise tools like shading etc are not available when working with palette right away
08:22:57  <planetmaker> But thus the result will be a 32bpp version of sprites anyway :D
08:23:38  <V453000> hm :) I will stay with the palette :)
08:23:57  <planetmaker> you only use it on export in the psd, too ;-)
08:24:50  <V453000> well yes but I draw in the correct colours :P
08:25:08  <planetmaker> :-) Yeah, that's the difference indeed
08:25:30  <planetmaker> But I first need to develop a feel how to design, colour, texture, ... terrain
08:25:44  <planetmaker> easier to get a feeling in rgb colour room
08:26:16  <planetmaker> conversion to palette then is easy. Even when it needs some manual adjustments to make it look right in that case
08:27:44  <V453000> pretty much
08:29:38  <planetmaker> I've also not seen a single project which uses 32bpp where I confidently can say "yes, this really uses it well". There are single sprites and complete objects in several projects. But ...
08:29:55  <planetmaker> ... often it still looks a bit... used below its capability
08:33:08  <V453000> from my observation that is simply because they think "omg more colours (eventuall more zoom), automatically awesome" but that is not true by far. In general sprites need some contrast and level of detail. Drawing in many colours is obviously harder than in just a few (at least for vehicles) and drawing for x4 zoom is basically impossible to make look good in x1
08:37:24  <planetmaker> I don't think that more colours is more difficult to draw in. But if you want to make use of the larger choice of colours you actually have to use them for improved shading etc. To add the fine detail a palette cannot provide
08:37:28  <planetmaker> and that isn't done
08:39:25  <V453000> sort of, but also it is coming from a similar thing I am refering to
08:39:44  <V453000> if you draw sprites with low contrast (typical) in 8bpp, 32bpp wont help at all
08:42:54  <V453000> point is, if you draw systematically by picking 1 colour in 8bpp, typically a 8shade colour, you can easily place all of those colours around the object
08:43:04  <V453000> doing that with 255 colours is a bit more complicated
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09:30:01  <planetmaker> V453000, it doesn't mean I have to use that many (nor actually should). But I can choose better fitting colours
09:30:19  <planetmaker> anyway. I think we mean the same thing. Just different words :D
09:30:30  <planetmaker> also quak :)
09:30:39  <V453000> sort of moo :)
09:30:56  <frosch123> moin :)
09:31:57  <planetmaker> New feature in action, frosch123:
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09:33:54  <V453000> newGRF started: WCR :D
09:34:19  <V453000> idk what the shortcut means in general
09:37:13  <Nothing4You> can someone explain to me why the train blocks the upper entrances when exiting at the bottom?
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09:39:33  <V453000> combo signals react to each other
09:40:07  <peter1138> wrong signals
09:40:17  <peter1138> use path signals for that station layhout
09:40:19  <peter1138> -h
09:40:55  <Nothing4You> kk
09:42:20  <peter1138> if you really want to use pre signals, change the exit signals to regular signals and change the combo signals to exit signals
09:42:48  <peter1138> it is possible for the station to clog up though
09:43:07  <peter1138> so then you have to either split it up by direction or just go with path signals
09:43:38  <Nothing4You> i just switched to path ones
09:43:50  <V453000> :D
09:43:57  <Nothing4You> i guess i still don't completely understand how the pre signals work
09:44:16  <peter1138> exit presignal doesn't refer to, say the exit of the station
09:44:55  <peter1138> V453000, er what?
09:45:36  <V453000> wip wooden coaster rails :D
09:46:22  <peter1138> hmm, ok
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09:49:39  <juzza1> Nothing4You: in your station the upper lights are red because the block after them is also red
09:50:33  <Nothing4You> i thought as they were combo signals they would end where the next signal comes
09:50:53  <peter1138> combos interact with other combos
09:51:15  <peter1138> well, and exits of course
09:51:29  <peter1138> basicaly pre-signals suck
09:51:33  <peter1138> path signals rock
09:51:37  <peter1138> and V453000 is a lon
09:51:39  <peter1138> no
09:51:40  <peter1138> a loon
09:52:08  <V453000> :)
09:52:54  <frosch123> V453000: wcr0 looks like junctions will be visually as awful as maglev :p
09:53:13  <Nothing4You> actually i had crashes already when i just used path signals in the station
09:53:15  <peter1138> that's okay, noone uses maglev either
09:53:33  <V453000> sure nobody does :)
09:53:43  <peter1138> if you had crashes then you're changing signals with trains there
09:53:51  <peter1138> or making trains override the signal
09:53:57  <juzza1> combo is entry and exit, so in that situation the entry part being red is the dominant one
09:54:04  <V453000> path signals can cause crashes without changing signals
09:54:15  <juzza1> i may be totally wrong though, but that would seem logical
09:56:06  <frosch123> never build circles with combo signals :)
09:56:30  <peter1138> V453000, true, if you change track layout
09:56:38  <peter1138> same thing really though
09:56:48  <peter1138> "don't mess when trains are about"
09:56:55  <peter1138> same happens with block signals too mind you
09:57:11  <peter1138> if you leave a layout to its own devices, path signals won't cause crashes
09:57:24  <V453000> no
09:57:36  <V453000> just using block signals and path signals together causes crashes easily
09:57:49  <Nothing4You> i had this setup and it caused crashes already
09:58:14  <V453000> because you changed signals in that case, that cant cause crashes on itself
09:58:55  <frosch123> maybe play without signals, use start/stop and force-proceeed, and improve your micro skills
09:58:55  <peter1138> V453000,
09:59:22  <peter1138> but you won't, because you know pbs is designed to be shit and crash all the time
09:59:49  <V453000> this isnt really a bug
10:00:02  <V453000> also fuck off with your comments
10:00:31  <peter1138> ooh i nit a nerve
10:02:11  <V453000> well for instance I did not say PBS is shit, I said it is unsuitable to start learning with
10:02:15  <V453000> but yes sure
10:02:22  <Nothing4You> (internet dc'ed) i had this setup and it caused crashes already
10:02:46  <V453000> [11:58] <V453000> because you changed signals in that case, that cant cause crashes on itself
10:03:02  <Nothing4You> what do you mean by "changing signals"?
10:03:13  <V453000> editing them
10:03:19  <peter1138> changed them while a train is near
10:03:26  <peter1138> possibly
10:03:32  <Nothing4You> no i didn't change them while a train was there
10:03:47  <Nothing4You> it was running successfully for some time and then i suddenly got crashes
10:04:03  <Nothing4You> s/crashes/a crash/
10:04:14  <juzza1> exit signal doesnt need to be pbs, but im not sure if that changes anything
10:04:30  <juzza1> i mean the signal leading to the exit track, not the exit from station
10:04:46  <peter1138> should really be a signal there at all, but it won't cause crashes
10:05:04  <peter1138> *shouldn't
10:05:17  <Nothing4You> i'll try without that
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14:18:41  <goodger> my god, that joke is so old
14:18:53  <__ln___> entirely new
14:19:06  <goodger> also, what's the red circle thing meant to be?
14:19:24  <__ln___> if you don't know, you're missing the point
14:19:30  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the Bayern MÃŒnchen logo
14:20:00  <Eddi|zuHause> it probably works with every sports-related logo :)
14:20:07  <planetmaker> hehe :-) (and yes, the logo makes the joke)
14:20:08  <goodger> oh, it's just a football club
14:20:18  <goodger> I assumed it was something to do with american politics
14:20:21  <__ln___> the Bavaria Munich logo for those who prefer english only
14:20:49  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a trademark, it doesn't need translation
14:20:52  <__ln___> and the Bavaria Monaco di Bavaria logo for those who prefer latin.
14:21:54  <goodger> ...
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14:22:12  <Eddi|zuHause> "future champions league runner up Bayern MÃŒnchen" :p
14:23:04  <Eddi|zuHause> (except history and the odds speak for them winning)
14:24:29  <Eddi|zuHause> (and i don't really care)
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16:28:43  <Alberth> wie wa bie die doe
16:28:51  <Alberth> also known as "hi all"
16:28:58  <tycoondemon> so where can I comment about how I cannot edit a "new game" in the scenario editor?
16:37:01  <Alberth> suggestions forum?
16:49:19  <V453000> what do you mean by that :d
16:49:27  <tycoondemon> well
16:49:42  <tycoondemon> new game option in the game generates a new game
16:49:55  <tycoondemon> but I cannot create such a game in the scenario editor
16:50:06  <tycoondemon> with no of towns and industries
16:50:20  <tycoondemon> and with trees allready
16:50:40  <V453000> rename the .sav to .scn
16:50:49  <tycoondemon> is that still possible?
16:50:57  <tycoondemon> :O
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16:51:57  <tycoondemon> and; ttd, and by extension openttd, is the best game ever!
16:52:06  <Nothing4You> where can i set the multiplayer nick?
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16:53:29  <Alberth>   three guesses what you can set in the edit box labeled "player name"
16:54:19  <Nothing4You> thanks
16:54:46  <Nothing4You> somehow it won't let me enter anything there :/
16:54:51  <Nothing4You> visual keyboard works, normal doesn't
16:54:52  <Ristovski> planetmaker: Are you around? I have a question
16:55:18  <Alberth> if you want to highlight pm, ask the question at the same time
16:55:35  <Alberth> that way all information is at one line
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16:55:38  <Ristovski> 59s connection lag
16:55:54  <Alberth> hi Zuu
16:56:09  <Ristovski> planetmaker: Is there a NewGRF that adds more stuff like GUIs for buildings and stuff? Aka, to make OpenTTD more SimCity-like
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16:56:47  * Alberth fails to understand why planetmaker specifically would know that
16:56:49  <tycoondemon> using pbs signals is lame for most of the time anyway :O
16:57:11  <Ristovski> Alberth: because he is like the genius here
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17:01:11  <V453000> there is
17:01:13  <V453000>
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17:01:39  <Ristovski> ... ha-ha
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17:03:45  <Alberth> look for newobject newgrfs?
17:04:46  <Nothing4You> when i try to chat it doesn't want to take my input but it takes the shortcut keys instead
17:05:11  <frosch123> sounds as if you have a trouble with focus
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17:05:19  <frosch123> does the editbox show a blinking cursor?
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17:06:19  <Nothing4You> yes it does
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17:06:37  <frosch123> ctrl pressed or something like that? :p
17:06:44  <frosch123> sticky keys?
17:07:14  <Nothing4You> also, if i have the railroad contruction menu open it wants to build a tunnel instead of opening the chat
17:07:19  <Nothing4You> no, ctrl isn't pressed
17:08:12  <frosch123> tunnel is usually "T"
17:08:17  <frosch123> while chat is "enter"
17:08:24  <frosch123> so, something is screwed up on your side :)
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17:08:26  <Nothing4You> ah
17:08:42  <Nothing4You> still, keys are not accepted
17:09:05  <Nothing4You> cursor is blinking and i can type by using the screen keyboard after double clicking the input box
17:09:36  <frosch123> what os?
17:09:40  <Nothing4You> arch linux
17:09:48  <Nothing4You> x64
17:09:50  <frosch123> sdl backend?
17:09:55  <frosch123> or frontend?
17:10:00  <frosch123> never know which is which :)
17:10:09  <Nothing4You> how do i know?
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17:10:18  <Alberth> frosch123: whatever you prefer :)
17:10:26  <frosch123> Alberth: sounds dirty
17:10:53  <frosch123> Nothing4You: start ottd with "-v sdl"
17:11:19  <Nothing4You> my package manager says sdl is a dependency of openttd so i know it's installed
17:11:32  <Nothing4You> is there a way i can know whether it's using that without restarting the game?
17:11:59  <frosch123> start "openttd --help" in parallel
17:12:07  <frosch123> it should list the available video drivers
17:12:12  <frosch123> maybe sdl is even the only one
17:12:29  <frosch123> "allegro" is the only alternative anyway
17:12:41  <glx> he should have "null" in the list too :)
17:12:52  <frosch123> yeah, but i would think he would notice :p
17:13:10  <Nothing4You> it lists sdl, dedicated and null
17:13:19  <frosch123> yeah, so "sdl"
17:13:30  <frosch123> well, so, i would blame sdl :p
17:13:53  <frosch123> anyway, which ottd version?
17:14:12  <glx> (and latest is not a version)
17:14:17  <Nothing4You> 1.3.0-2
17:14:41  <glx> so last stable
17:14:44  <Nothing4You> yep
17:15:06  <V453000> latest
17:15:48  <frosch123> oh, i never committed my diff
17:16:48  <frosch123> <- if you can compile, you might want to check whether that diff makes a difference :)
17:17:16  <Zuu> Hello Alberth
17:20:09  <Nothing4You> frosch123: that could help me?
17:20:15  <Nothing4You> then i need to compile :/
17:20:28  <frosch123> it completely changes how sdl keypresses are processed in ottd
17:20:36  <frosch123> it is meant to fix numpad behaviour
17:20:42  <Nothing4You> lol i just got disconnected saying my pc is too slow
17:20:53  <frosch123> but since there is something weird on your side, and it changes it completely, maybe it changes something for your
17:20:57  <Nothing4You> so i can quit the game
17:21:14  <frosch123> just a random idea :)
17:21:26  <Nothing4You> k, i'll try then
17:24:05  <frosch123> you could also try other sdl based games
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17:31:47  <Nothing4You> what's the correct syntax to apply the patch?
17:32:07  <frosch123> patch -p 0 < fs5504.diff
17:32:43  <Zuu> I always use -p0 or -p1. Eg without a space after -p. But maybe it works also with the space
17:32:55  <Nothing4You> i thought it would default to 0 without param
17:33:05  <Nothing4You> but it didn't seem to
17:33:13  <frosch123> no, default is "without paths"
17:33:24  <Nothing4You> kk, i just tried with -p0
17:33:25  <frosch123> which is completely useless for anything more than a single file :)
17:33:30  <Zuu> Your current path needs to be such that you have src in the current directory.
17:33:33  <Nothing4You> diffing to svn version
17:33:45  <Nothing4You> starts with Hunk #1 FAILED at 240.
17:34:11  <frosch123> yeah, might not apply to 1.3.0
17:34:11  <Nothing4You>
17:34:20  <Nothing4You> oh, it's an older one?
17:34:35  <frosch123> try the exact svn version
17:34:42  <Nothing4You> i did
17:34:50  <frosch123> r25092 ?
17:34:53  <Nothing4You> At revision 15000.
17:34:55  <Nothing4You> wait
17:34:57  <Nothing4You> that is wrong
17:34:59  <Nothing4You> wtf
17:35:09  <frosch123> 15000 is some years old :p
17:35:15  <Nothing4You> yeah obviously
17:35:28  <Nothing4You> i just used the packaging script provided by someone
17:35:50  <Nothing4You> didn't expect a version number to be hardcoded in a -svn package :o
17:35:51  <frosch123> @commit 15000
17:35:52  <DorpsGek> frosch123: Commit by truebrain :: r15000 /branches/noai/src (ai/ai.hpp saveload/ai_sl.cpp) (2009-01-12 10:47:53 UTC)
17:35:53  <DorpsGek> frosch123: [NoAI] -Fix (r14984): forgot to rename @file too
17:36:05  <frosch123> excellent revision :p
17:36:29  <Nothing4You> updating now...
17:36:33  <Nothing4You> to 25092
17:36:48  <Nothing4You> i guess i should take some time later and write a better script that auto updates
17:37:08  <Nothing4You> it makes no sense to have a -svn which is hardcoded to a version
17:38:13  <Nothing4You> downloading...
17:38:27  <Nothing4You> building now
17:39:10  <Nothing4You> compiling slowly :D
17:41:14  <Eddi|zuHause> where was the r15k party? :)
17:41:26  <frosch123> in your head
17:41:39  <Eddi|zuHause> we should have one then :p
17:41:43  <Supercheese> where *wasn't* it? :P
17:42:00  <Supercheese> distributed partying
17:42:36  <Supercheese> party in the cloud?
17:43:35  <tycoondemon> r30k?
17:43:59  <frosch123> on my way to work, i pass a certain company which is partying their existence of 30 years
17:44:17  <frosch123> ... but they are doing that for 4 years now ...
17:44:38  <frosch123> i have not figured out whether they started with 26, or ar still partying with 34 :)
17:45:06  <frosch123> you can guess what kind of company it is :)
17:45:15  <frosch123> tycoondemon: r25k first :)
17:45:51  <tycoondemon> we must have fireworks then
17:45:54  <tycoondemon> or something
17:45:56  <Eddi|zuHause> (warning: commercial spot)
17:48:10  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: they have no license plates
17:50:26  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: did i miss the joke? how does that fit on topic?
17:50:49  <Eddi|zuHause> what tpÃŒoc
17:51:00  <Eddi|zuHause> *bÀh
17:51:06  <Eddi|zuHause> *topic
17:51:47  <frosch123> your right hand is misaligned
17:52:58  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i got blinded by sunlight
17:53:04  <frosch123> but at least we know now that eddi is not a alien with a single tentacle
17:53:09  <frosch123> he has at least two
17:53:20  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the joke, obviously, is old spock vs. new spock
17:54:30  <frosch123> ok, wouldn't know either
17:54:51  <frosch123> what did they do to their ears?
17:56:08  <Eddi|zuHause> then it's probably useless to point you to the other half dozen jokes in there
17:59:15  <frosch123> yeah, never cared about st :)
17:59:19  <Eddi|zuHause> like that they play 3D-chess. or that he recites his own bilbo ballad. and then his own death scene
17:59:50  <frosch123> i saw darkstar this week, and it did not disappoint me about the trashiness :)
18:00:19  <Nothing4You> compiling done :)
18:00:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it really took you 20 minutes?
18:00:59  <Nothing4You> a bit less
18:01:03  <Eddi|zuHause> on what kind of system?
18:01:06  <Nothing4You> didn't notice when it finnished
18:01:10  <Nothing4You> i'm doing this on a netbook
18:01:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and did you try "make -j5"?
18:01:42  <Nothing4You> damn it looks like either this build script is totally shit or something different is fucked up
18:02:02  <frosch123> what did it compile this time? :p
18:02:09  <Nothing4You> first it asked me to download the graphics, then it segfaulted
18:02:18  <Nothing4You> after downloading a bit
18:02:23  <frosch123> gcc 4.5 ?
18:02:26  <Nothing4You> i did `make` without params
18:02:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that is an already fixed bug
18:02:40  <Nothing4You> gcc 4.8
18:02:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it segfaulted at the end of the download
18:02:59  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: well, we said r25092 :)
18:03:13  <Nothing4You> it segfaulted with "Error: Assertion failed at line 2440 of /home/rschwab/build/openttd-svn-sdl-patch/src/trunk/src/window.cpp: w"
18:03:41  <frosch123> well, don't you have a graphics set already anyway?
18:03:52  <Nothing4You> oh the revision you told me wasn't the most recent one
18:04:04  <Nothing4You> removed the revision stuff completely from the script now
18:04:20  <Nothing4You> downloading current version now :D
18:04:20  <frosch123> well, i don't know whether the diff still applies
18:04:25  <frosch123> it's 6 weeks old or so
18:04:36  <Nothing4You> it does
18:05:00  <Nothing4You> it didn't have the stuff because it was installed to a different location
18:05:06  <frosch123> well, i have no doubts that it still applies to r25092 :p
18:05:09  <Nothing4You> to have it installed in addition to the stable version
18:06:19  <Nothing4You> it's r25232 now
18:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Nothing4You: but the personal dir (~/.openttd) is usually shared between multiple installs
18:06:59  <Nothing4You> no, it was ./configure'd with a different path
18:07:06  <Nothing4You> to ~/.openttd-svn
18:07:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Nothing4You: anyway, it should just work if you start it again after the crash
18:07:44  <Nothing4You> already recompiling with the newer version
18:07:50  <Nothing4You> so i'll just wait until that finnishes
18:08:13  <Eddi|zuHause> and with "make -j26" it uses more than one core, so compiling might be faster
18:08:29  <frosch123> -j26 sounds like out of memory
18:08:46  <Eddi|zuHause> (don't use 26, it's probably not useful) :p
18:09:22  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i recently mistyped -j12 as -j23 but had no problems :)
18:09:24  <Nothing4You> what is -j?
18:09:24  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause:   -j  runs everything in parallel :p
18:09:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Nothing4You: number of threads run in parallel
18:09:58  <Nothing4You> kk
18:10:32  <Nothing4You> doesn't it auto to number of cpus?
18:10:50  <Eddi|zuHause> no
18:10:59  <Nothing4You> k, using -j2 then
18:11:21  <Eddi|zuHause> might put that as an alias or something, to have it default
18:15:58  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, so anyone have any arguments against ?
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18:28:21  <Nothing4You> the svn version with your patch works with the input
18:28:36  <Nothing4You> frosch123: ↑
18:28:51  <frosch123> and it fails without it?
18:29:07  <frosch123> (just checking that it's the patch, and not the custom compile)
18:29:20  <Nothing4You> i didn't check without the patch yet
18:29:32  <Nothing4You> (oh noes, another compile waiting :()
18:30:46  <frosch123> yeah, compiling is the only reason why i have the big machine i have :p
18:31:45  <Nothing4You> :D
18:32:00  <Nothing4You> a progress indicator would be nice while compiling
18:34:22  <frosch123> it's alphabetical
18:35:25  <Nothing4You> percentage would be nicer
18:35:31  <Nothing4You> i'm at road
18:36:04  <frosch123> about 30% i would guess
18:36:13  <Nothing4You> k
18:36:18  <frosch123> most is "s" :)
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18:38:55  <Nothing4You> window now
18:39:03  <Nothing4You> making done
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18:41:39  <Nothing4You> wtf
18:41:42  <Nothing4You> this is confusing
18:41:49  <Nothing4You> it now suddenly works
18:41:52  <Nothing4You> even with the stable version
18:41:57  <frosch123> :p
18:42:19  <frosch123> it only works when the cpu is warm
18:42:27  <frosch123> you should compile ottd every know and then
18:42:40  <MNIM> hahaha
18:42:50  <Nothing4You> although the version with your patch had some other problem fixed
18:43:03  <Nothing4You> lemme find out whether that was random or a real fix
18:43:10  <frosch123> it is supposed to fix numpad
18:43:16  <Nothing4You> i don't have a numpad
18:43:31  <Nothing4You> does it only do keyboard related stuff?
18:44:02  <frosch123> yes
18:44:12  <Nothing4You> hmm
18:44:19  <Nothing4You> then it most likely was random (or good timing)
18:44:22  <frosch123> what did it change? :p
18:44:43  <Nothing4You> lemme recompile with your patch and try
18:44:49  <frosch123> :p
18:44:58  <frosch123> copy the old binary before?
18:45:55  <Nothing4You> i usually fullscreen the window after launching by using my window manager for that
18:45:59  <Nothing4You> so i can still alt+tab
18:46:40  <Nothing4You> usually that results in having some unusuable area at the top of the screen which shows the same content as several pixels below
18:48:05  <Nothing4You> again at road
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18:50:28  <Eddi|zuHause> that has probably something to do with the resolution you select
18:50:42  <frosch123> magic bulldozer allows removing stuff from other companies?
18:50:46  <Eddi|zuHause> which might be different since you used a clean config
18:50:53  <frosch123> are you sure?
18:50:55  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: no
18:51:07  <Supercheese>
18:51:15  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i don't remember ever using it
18:51:27  <frosch123> it allows removing industries and such
18:51:39  <Supercheese> I'd like to make some renders of the rotodyne, and I'm wondering at what angle should it cruise at
18:51:52  <Supercheese> Helicopters have to nose down when cruising
18:52:12  <Supercheese> but would the rotodyne fly level?
18:52:12  <Alberth> 80 degrees
18:52:18  <Nothing4You> i use 1366x768 which is also set in the ingame prefs
18:52:35  <Nothing4You> it works being the size of my screen without being in fullscreen
18:52:50  <Nothing4You> but when i go down with the mouse the task bar pops up
18:53:25  <Nothing4You> sometimes i get it adjusted and working fine, sometimes it doesn't
18:55:15  <Nothing4You> btw, what is the difference between NewGRF and Online Content?
18:55:51  <Eddi|zuHause> there's more content than just newgrfs
18:56:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and there are newgrfs which are not "online"
18:56:18  <Nothing4You> what do you mean by not online?
18:56:36  <Eddi|zuHause> "what's the difference between apple juice and a vegetable store?"
18:57:59  <frosch123> Nothing4You: not everyone puts their add-ons into the online content download service
18:58:07  <Nothing4You> i mean both can be downloaded via the client
18:58:11  <frosch123> some dream of selling their stuff some day, or something like that
18:58:32  <Nothing4You> it looks like the "Online Content" contains the NewGRFs aswell
18:58:36  <Supercheese> or just done like the terms of use
18:58:39  <Supercheese> don't*
18:58:45  <Nothing4You> why do they have an extra download menu?
18:58:57  <Supercheese> "Online content" from main menu gets you everything
18:59:06  <Supercheese> "online content" from newgrf menu gets only newgrfs
18:59:14  <Supercheese> that what you're asking?
18:59:19  <Nothing4You> yes
18:59:42  <Nothing4You> why is there an extra for just newgrfs if they're already in the other one
18:59:43  <Supercheese> likewise "online content" form AI/GS settings gets only AI/GS/Libraries
18:59:46  <Supercheese> and so on
18:59:55  <frosch123> Nothing4You: it's the same, just pre-filtered for type
19:00:22  <Nothing4You> kk
19:00:57  <Eddi|zuHause> "why is there a meat store outside the supermarket, when the supermarket already sells meat?"
19:01:21  <frosch123> you have a meat store outside the supermarket?
19:01:28  <frosch123> usually there is a bread store
19:01:43  <Eddi|zuHause> (A: because the husbands can stand there and get a snack while the wife shops.)
19:01:49  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: depends
19:01:54  <frosch123> the meat and cheese stuff is usually inside the supermarket
19:02:03  <frosch123> s/inside/part of/
19:02:17  <frosch123> while the bakery might have different service times
19:02:29  <Eddi|zuHause> especially the larger supermarkets tend to have this
19:02:53  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there is also a meat section inside the supermarket as well
19:02:55  <frosch123> i have seen many supermarkets with a bread store
19:03:00  <frosch123> but never one with a meat store :)
19:03:29  <Supercheese> Really? Our supermarkets have the bakery section, then the meat/delicatessen, then the pharmacy...
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19:03:48  <Eddi|zuHause> pharmacy is very special in germany
19:03:49  <Supercheese> they employ a butcher, a baker
19:03:51  <frosch123> Supercheese: no, not "part of the supermarket"
19:03:51  <Nothing4You> i know some bigger supermarkets that are like what you describe
19:03:53  <Wolf01> hello o/
19:03:56  <Supercheese> no candlestick makers though ;)
19:03:59  <frosch123> but a separate company inside the same building
19:04:13  <Supercheese> ah, well often the pharmacy is separate-ish
19:04:22  <Supercheese> also we get Starbucks inside our Safeways
19:04:33  <Supercheese> there's probably a corporate partnership
19:04:48  <Supercheese> but yeah, never separate meat stores
19:05:21  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the point is: when the husband is forced to come along with the wive, the store has on average 15% less sales :)
19:05:41  <frosch123> lol :p
19:06:58  <Wolf01> \o
19:07:04  <Alberth> o/
19:07:10  <frosch123> he, i see
19:07:22  <frosch123> you are also confused about the similiary of lol and \o/ :)
19:07:41  <Wolf01> eheh
19:08:11  <MNIM> Eddi|zuHause: except for the liquor section
19:10:36  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: you mean like ? :p
19:11:15  <frosch123> <- no, that one :p
19:11:28  <frosch123> we only link nase-bohren here
19:11:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that was not in the first 10 google results
19:12:16  <MNIM> Hilfe, hilfe, ich kann nicht schwimmen!
19:12:26  <MNIM> I can't either, but I don't make so much noise about it!
19:12:53  <Wolf01> uhm, my last visited link on nase-bohren is 14.12.2012, I must regain
19:17:22  <HellTiger>
19:17:28  <Nothing4You> how do i get the AI in my game?
19:18:26  <MNIM> BLACK MAGIC
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19:18:47  <Wolf01> I think there is a setting when you start a new game
19:19:30  <Nothing4You> i can't see a settings for it in the new game menu
19:19:58  <Nothing4You> s/settings/setting
19:20:14  <HellTiger> first you need to download a ai
19:20:17  <HellTiger> there are several
19:21:08  <Nothing4You> i downloaded and enabled them in the ai/game script menu already
19:21:12  <Nothing4You> now i just want to play with them
19:21:28  <Wolf01> uhm, yes it has been moved to "AI/Game Script Settings", I'm playing the same game for 2 years :P
19:21:54  <Nothing4You> i have set it to max 2 competitors with different scripts
19:22:11  <Nothing4You> does that automatically load them?
19:22:41  <frosch123> they start some time after you
19:22:43  <Wolf01> then you sould only need to wait, iirc, one AI starts each month
19:22:48  <Wolf01> *should
19:22:53  <frosch123> like a half year or a whole year
19:23:04  <Wolf01> too much?
19:23:10  <Wolf01> *so
19:23:10  <frosch123> you can also force them to start my typing "start_ai" in the in-game console
19:23:17  <Nothing4You> kk
19:24:59  <Nothing4You> btw is it possible to have the AI playing in the same team with a player?
19:25:44  <frosch123> with cheats you can enter the ai company
19:25:55  <Nothing4You> kk
19:26:06  <Nothing4You> how is that handled in multiplayer?
19:26:10  <Nothing4You> also not possible by default?
19:26:23  <frosch123> i don't think you can join ai companies in multiplayer :)
19:26:30  <Nothing4You> kk
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19:33:10  <Nothing4You> what are "upgrades" in the content download?
19:33:28  <frosch123> never versions of stuff you downloaded earlier
19:33:34  <frosch123> *newer
19:33:52  <Nothing4You> kk
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19:36:13  <Supercheese> Gamescripts can't alter vehicle properties, can they>
19:36:16  <Supercheese> ?*
19:36:22  <Eddi|zuHause> no
19:38:01  <Supercheese> It'd be fun if they could affect vehicle properties on a per-player basis, giving rewards for goals etc.
19:38:04  <Supercheese> but that'd be a lot of code
19:38:34  <Eddi|zuHause> that'll horribly fail if the vehicle set is exchanged
19:44:57  <Nothing4You> is there a command for fast-forward?
19:45:21  <Zuu> Nothing4You: fast forward in MP is not allowed if that is what you are trying to do.
19:45:29  <Nothing4You> singleplayer
19:45:29  <Zuu> Otherwise, hold the tab key
19:45:38  <Nothing4You> i mean faster than that
19:45:49  <Zuu> You can assign a key in hotkeys.cfg if you want a hotkey to toggle fast forward.
19:45:59  <Nothing4You> like a command to go 1 year in future
19:46:08  <Supercheese> Fast forward runs the game as fast as it can, otherwise use the cheat menu
19:46:13  <Zuu> You can use the year cheat to change the time.
19:46:25  <Zuu> But that will not make the game state progress.
19:46:28  <Supercheese> to change the date -- of course, that changes date only and doesn't actually fast forward
19:46:30  <Supercheese> yeah that
19:46:42  <Nothing4You> kk
19:46:45  <Supercheese> doesn't calculate what would happen in that year and apply it
19:46:55  <Supercheese> although that would be cool, you might have to wait a long time for that :P
19:47:14  <Supercheese> would have to*
19:47:34  <blathijs> Supercheese: About the same time it would take to keep fast-forward enabled :-)
19:48:38  <Nothing4You> i need to wait 8 years :/
19:48:59  <Nothing4You> it's slightly faster than 1 day / sec
19:49:37  <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: well it might be somewhat faster when not trying to draw stuff
19:50:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Nothing4You: make the window smaller
19:50:37  <Nothing4You> ah that works
19:50:39  <Nothing4You> thanks
19:50:47  <Zuu> Disable full detail and full animations
19:50:54  <Nothing4You> now just the savegames slow it down :D
19:51:14  <Zuu> Do you run on a single core CPU?
19:51:18  <Nothing4You> dualcore
19:51:59  <Nothing4You> saving is a bit slow as / is an usb stick
19:52:07  <Zuu> With dual core, actual saving to disk is done by a seperate thread. The only slow down is to make a copy of the entire game state.
19:53:32  <Zuu> On a somewhat fast PC, autosave is hardly noticable. In your case, if it is a significant slow down, you can turn it off or reduce the frequency in game options. (but don't complain to me if you lost your game ;-)  )
19:54:11  <Nothing4You> i can live with the waiting time
20:00:56  <Eddi|zuHause> well it gets in trouble when waiting for the savegame to be written takes longer than advancing the game until the next autosave
20:01:17  <Nothing4You> what happens then?
20:01:28  <Eddi|zuHause> the world implodes
20:01:38  <Nothing4You> also, the game fast-forwarding is stopped and it's running at normal speed while it saves
20:01:47  <Nothing4You> only the world?
20:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause> it blows a whole in the space-time-continuum the size of belgium
20:03:00  <Eddi|zuHause> -w
20:04:42  <Supercheese> blowhole?
20:06:25  <peter1138> i read that as "the size of belugas"
20:10:00  <Belugas> EXCUSES ME!!!  I might come from belgium, I may be a "tiny" fat, but i'm not THAT FAT!
20:10:01  <Belugas> ;)
20:10:24  <Alberth> o/ sir B
20:10:41  <Belugas> sir A!  sir P!
20:11:23  <Rubidium> monsieur B!
20:14:47  <Eddi|zuHause> of course i was referring to
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20:22:14  <Supercheese> NML speed units still broken?
20:22:28  <Supercheese> 190 mph returns "action 0 property too large"
20:22:54  *** goodger [] has quit [Quit: goodger]
20:23:01  <Supercheese> and that's pretty low for an aircraft speed
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20:26:25  <Belugas> monsieur R!
20:26:35  <Belugas> man.. would be easier to just start the alphabet...
20:26:53  <peter1138> :D
20:27:20  <Eddi|zuHause> or the periodic table :)
20:27:51  <Supercheese> PeriOTTDic table, eh?
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20:33:39  <Rubidium> Belugas: just use regular expressions ;)
20:33:59  <Rubidium> messieurs .!
20:35:39  <Nothing4You> why not [A-Z]?
20:36:02  <Nothing4You> do you want to support people who have names like '`' or '_'?
20:36:14  <Rubidium> Nothing4You: yes, e.g. __ln___
20:36:50  <Rubidium> and also those with a lowercase name
20:37:11  <peter1138> don't forget little bobby tables
20:37:14  <Supercheese> or perhaps a name that begins with ç or ö or something
20:37:30  <Nothing4You> that is possible in irc?
20:37:38  <Supercheese> hmm, good question
20:37:42  <Nothing4You> i don't think so
20:38:16  <Nothing4You> it isn't
20:38:27  <peter1138> probably depends on the server softwarte
20:38:28  <peter1138> -t
20:38:31  <Supercheese> tried, didn't work
20:38:40  <Supercheese> well, tried using Greek
20:38:43  <Supercheese> close enough
20:39:07  <Supercheese> "Σupercheese Erroneous Nickname"
20:39:15  <Nothing4You> nickname   =  ( letter / special ) *8( letter / digit / special / "-" )
20:39:29  <Nothing4You> ↑↑ RFC 2812
20:40:11  <Nothing4You> special    =  %x5B-60 / %x7B-7D ; "[", "]", "\", "`", "_", "^", "{", "|", "}"
20:41:23  <Nothing4You> channel names are way less restrictive
20:41:46  <Eddi|zuHause> beginning with # is not a restriction?
20:42:04  <Supercheese> "#upercheese Erroneous Nickname"
20:42:20  <Eddi|zuHause> not what i meant
20:42:25  <Supercheese> ah, channel
20:42:49  <Nothing4You> i mean #ÀöÌ€ΩŁ⅞Êſ is a valid channel name
20:43:08  <Supercheese> ♪♫
20:43:18  <Eddi|zuHause> tÌdelÌ?
20:43:25  <Supercheese> precisely :)
20:43:37  <Nothing4You> yay, music channels
20:43:46  <Nothing4You> now irc just needs music streaming :D
20:43:57  <Supercheese> ∎
20:44:01  <Nothing4You> ·
20:44:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese is blind now?
20:44:16  <frosch123> aww... neither "♪" nor "♫" give any google result
20:44:17  <Supercheese> ♮-ly
20:44:24  <Supercheese> â€
20:44:46  <__ln___> -> #Ωpenttd
20:45:33  <frosch123> you should try nbsp and rtl control chars :)
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20:46:21  <Nothing4You> → #ð߀ŋΩŧŧÐ
20:46:24  <Supercheese> or the upside-down lettering
20:46:39  <Supercheese> combined with rtl would be interesting
20:47:07  <Nothing4You> i wonder whether my client can handle those control chars correctly
20:47:21  <frosch123> the log cannot :)
20:47:24  <Nothing4You> hehe
20:47:28  <Supercheese> â™
20:48:09  <__ln___> Nothing4You: ththeurongottd? you're not taking unicode seriously.
20:48:40  <Nothing4You> oh that wasn't an o
20:48:44  <Nothing4You> just looked similar
20:48:51  <Nothing4You> aswell as most of the other chars
20:48:56  <frosch123> Nothing4You:
20:49:07  <Nothing4You> and the omega also was wrong
20:52:27  <Nothing4You> frosch123: which line?
20:52:32  <Nothing4You> can't find it
20:52:37  <frosch123> starting 18:33:53
20:53:11  <frosch123> in my browser everything is messed up after that
20:53:21  <Nothing4You> what you linked ended at 18:22:30
20:53:39  <Supercheese> timezones
20:53:53  <frosch123> ok, look for "question of the day"
20:54:34  <Nothing4You> yeah, doesn't work
20:54:42  <Supercheese>
20:55:12  <Nothing4You> using chrome
20:55:22  <frosch123> unbalanced rtl control codes :)
20:55:30  <Supercheese> my browser works it out fine
20:55:43  <Nothing4You> it's displayed correctly, i just can't select it
20:55:48  <Nothing4You> without selecting the text around it
20:55:57  <Supercheese> < frosch123> Question of the day: ‮?ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus tneilc CRI ruoy seoD
20:56:11  <frosch123> now you broke it again :p
20:56:11  <Nothing4You>
20:56:14  <Supercheese> heh, copy/paste inserted "text properly"
20:56:20  <Nothing4You> my irc client shows them correctly rtl
20:56:28  <Supercheese> whee
20:56:34  <Nothing4You> no
20:56:36  <Nothing4You> wee
20:56:38  <Nothing4You> not whee
20:56:40  <Nothing4You> weechat :)
20:56:53  <Supercheese> freak out
20:56:57  <frosch123> osch123> ‬maybe
20:57:22  <Nothing4You> lemme try copy pasting it
20:57:24  <Nothing4You> < frosch123> Question of the day: ‮?ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus tneilc CRI ruoy seoD
20:57:28  <Nothing4You> yeah, that works aswell
20:57:38  <frosch123> 3> ‬ma
20:57:43  <frosch123> don't break it all the time
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20:58:06  <Nothing4You> it's just that part that is broken?
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20:58:29  <Nothing4You> meh
20:58:42  <Nothing4You> if i copy paste it from my terminal the control codes are stripped
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20:59:54  <Nothing4You> although the input line doesn't like it
20:59:59  <Nothing4You> it just shows the part backwards
21:00:26  <frosch123> so it shows the logical order?
21:00:36  <Nothing4You> yeah
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21:01:23  <Nothing4You> chrome shows it in the logical order in text
21:01:34  <Nothing4You> but in the input box it's being as it should
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21:06:09  <frosch123> night
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21:17:36  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:16:23  <Eddi|zuHause> err, did they really just compare the discussion about speed limits in germany with the discussion about gun control in america?
22:18:08  <Nothing4You> where
22:23:51  <Eddi|zuHause> in the newspaper
22:24:12  <Eddi|zuHause> the electronic one, not the paper one. nobody has those anymore :p
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22:25:47  <Nothing4You> where?
22:29:40  <Eddi|zuHause>
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22:32:09  <Nothing4You> lol
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23:12:58  <Eddi|zuHause> what i find most amazing about this article is the comparison that it should have a low speed limit and instead overtaking on the right, which, obviously, causes WAAAAAAAAAY more accidents
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23:19:32  <Kylie> hi.
23:19:35  <Kylie> question.
23:19:41  <Kylie> 1.3.0
23:19:50  <Kylie> cant right click to get tooltip
23:20:03  <Kylie> when right click, doesnt pop up
23:20:05  <Nothing4You> Eddi|zuHause: yeah
23:20:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Kylie: advamced settings->gui->tooltip delay
23:21:30  <Kylie> also, i forget if i can zoom in and ouyt with the scroll whell
23:21:31  <Kylie> ?
23:22:30  <Nothing4You> why don't you try it and see?
23:23:18  <Kylie> i tried, didn't zoom in/out. thought i could. but ty
23:23:30  <Eddi|zuHause> why don't you look for a setting that has scroll wheel in the name, then?
23:23:51  <Eddi|zuHause> or are you 8 years old?
23:26:07  <Eddi|zuHause> hey, i have a solution for the american weapon problem: don't limit how fast the weapon can shoot, but limit how fast people may shoot the weapon in public spaces!!!
23:37:22  <Nothing4You> lol
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